I looked at the latest ratings coming from the two C+C forums tonight and was amazed to see Civ3 had a higher vierwship over the latest sequel, and this coming off the heels of Civ4's Warlords release?

It seems Civ3 has established itself as the standard of Civ Gaming. Im begining to doubt if CIv4 has what it takes to take over the forums like Civ3 did eventually to Civ2 Call to Power

I think it's just, that because civ3 has been out longer, it has more fan/customization-base than civ4.

Or, of course, all the Civ IV people are off playing Warlords instead of posting on CFC.

I still don't have Civ IV. Still playing Civ3 when I have time, though that's very little.

I looked at the latest ratings coming from the two C+C forums tonight and was amazed to see Civ3 had a higher vierwship over the latest sequel, and this coming off the heels of Civ4's Warlords release?
And are there more views than normal for Civ3, or less views for Civ4?

And are there more views than normal for Civ3, or less views for Civ4?
Ya to Tell ya the truth they usuallly hover around the same levels for both with Civ4 ususlly having at least a 20p lead at most times but on this occassion Civ3 had the edge. I know its happened a few times. I even posted it when I caught the phenomonon in April.
Sorry if its no big deal , but to me it seems crazy thats all

Or, of course, all the Civ IV people are off playing Warlords instead of posting on CFC.
Quite possible Yes indeed ! :)

I still don't have Civ IV. Still playing Civ3 when I have time, though that's very little.
You don't want it. Civ 3 is infintely better.

We just have to remember, that we've only got 20 turns, folks! So get done what you can in the time given.

The golden era of Civ3 will not begin before everyone uses only my sets :smug:

Ya thats another example. more of the best mods are being made as we speak. that garantees Civ3 will be around even longer as we wait for more improved mods with great looking Terrain , unit animation, and just graphics in general, they all have been improved, making for some sort of new level of civving. and to think some said CIv3 will follow the pattern of demise of Civ2 againt the release of Civ4 :shake:
Its been how long now and What?... Nothing, comon' now, gimme a break. CIV dosn't have what it takes, when will they realize that?

i think its because, civ 3 is much easier to customize, civ 4 requires xml and a lot of work which people dont have much of anymore. Also, civ 3 isnt such a mem hog as civ 4 is, thats what kept me here. Civ4 just will not run properly, even though i meet all the specs, on my comp while civ 3 runs very smoothly.

##NEWSFLASH##
It happened again. at 8.50 CivFan time, Civ 3's C+C was leadin the CIV's C+C forum by three people. This is unbelievable!! two nights in a row.

It might be worth pointing out, also, that the new File Database (set up just a couple of days ago) currently features far more Civ III files than Civ IV ones.

I do think that, although modding Civ III is hardly user-friendly, it's certainly a lot easier than modding Civ IV seems to be. That's true for both graphics and full-blown mods or scenarios. It doesn't mean Civ III is a better game than Civ IV overall (I've heard very good things about Civ IV and I wish my computer could run it), but anyone who wants to mod a game is much better off going for Civ III, at least at the moment. Apart from anything else, Civ III just has a vast quantity of files, graphics, utilities, and all the rest that the Civ IV modders haven't had time to replicate yet. I'm sure they will eventually, though - there seem to be some extremely talented artists and modders on the Civ IV pages.

although modding Civ III is hardly user-friendly, it's certainly a lot easier than modding Civ IV seems to be. That's true for both graphics and full-blown mods or scenarios.

These are my words too !! And as I said in an other thread: There is still a lot of potential, that isn´t used in C3C. :D

Ya I know Civ4 has lots going for it, but my facination lies in the fact that Civ3 is still around and actually gaining steam, this is unprecidented no?. No one could predict it would be gaining momentuem this late into CIv4's Run.

Im betting it stays in the picture all the way till Civ5 comes out, With some of the MOds expeced to arrive I think Its a no brainer

^ Yes, I agree with you, but I observed a strange attitude from the posters from the Civ4 forum: I was really very surprised to find out that A LOT of them hated Civ3, and think Civ4 is much better, and that a lot of them treat Civ3 veterans like primitives. I received some insults while posting in the Civ44 forum just because I mentioned that I use to post more in the Civ3 forums...

If future Civ4 veterans (now they are all noobs! :joke:) will get to rule the civ comunity, not here, because I am sure we won't allow them, but on other forums/websites/real life, Civ3 might dissapear faster than it deserves to.

Yes, but then look at the vitriol heaped upon Civ IV in the Civ III fora too. Neither game deserves the lambasting it gets from proponents of the other, but that's the Internet for you. Especially when you're talking about game geeks...

I received some insults while posting in the Civ4 forum just because I mentioned that I use to post more in the Civ3 forums... If future Civ4 veterans (now they are all noobs! :joke:) will get to rule the civ comunity, not here, because I am sure we won't allow them, but on other forums/websites/real life, Civ3 might dissapear faster than it deserves to.

Hi Mirc, the only time in this forum someone was somewhat rude to me, this was a "Veteran-Civ 3-poster", who was at that day (in my eyes) very agressive to another "Veteran-Civ 3-poster" in a Civ 3-forum. As at that day -long ago - this "Veteran-Civ 3-poster" gave strange statements about the condition of his brain :mischief: I thought he only had a bad day and it is the best to ignore his posting. Mirc, I think, it´s not our task to educate the world :). And if it is really necessairy, I think the moderators do a good job.
And please don´t forget, according to your definition all Civ 4-forum posters are noobs (joke), so we are noobs too, when we post in a Civ 4-forum :lol: .

What we can do in the civ-forums is to improve both -Civ 3 and Civ 4- and if Civ 4 can be played in a way I like I will play Civ 4 ;) . But at time, this point is far, far away and so I do all I can for the "Golden Age of C3C".

If you total all posts over all forums, CIV has 585779 posts, while Civ3 comes in at 1555174 posts.

Civ3 was released 10/2001, CIV 10/2005. So they are 57 and 9 months old.

Civ3 averages 27283 posts/month, while CIV clocks in at 65086 posts/month.

Statistics are fun. ;)

I don't think it's a matter of superiority or golden age. The point is that civ3 has been established for very long and we had the time to make numerous exceptional mods/scenarios. Let's say that the civ3 community has matured. Now it has the requirements and the experience to come out with its best work ever. Thus I'm sure it will remain flourishing for a long time.

Eventually civ4 will reach this point as well, and when it does it may be better than civ3. Remember, modding for civ4 is much more complicated, but also much more versatile (just check the Fall from Heaven mod). And let me argue that it already has more to show than what civ3 had 9 months after its release. But it will probably take a few years until civ4 modding reaches the perfection that civ3 has achieved.

In my games I have increased golden ages to 25 turns ;) (playing on el mencey's maps anyways) So, I'll be around at least until 5 past 12:00 ;)


... and don't forget some really monstuous Civ3 mods still to be released

Statistics do show something, but let's not forget some other factors: The Internet is much more wide-spread these days than how it used to be in 2001 At the begininning of Civ3, I am very sure that there were indeed much more views than the average of posts and views we have now over these years Civ4, by simply being number 4 and not number 3 of the series accumulated more of the fame of the previous games, and it is yet to be seen if there will be a drop in views and posts or if they will clearly increase

This extra stuff is all in the advantage of Civ4, especially the 2nd one I listed, because it is normal to have more views and posts at the beginning.

It might be worth pointing out, also, that the new File Database (set up just a couple of days ago) currently features far more Civ III files than Civ IV ones.

Almost half of them are Aaglo's units... and there's more to come! :lol:

I still think that civ3 got ruined by the deliberate non-inclusion of civ2's event files.
They did not include the simplest of options, and one of the most popular ones, for the only possible reason that in this way Sid Meier could still see Civ2 being a live game.
This is a huge dissapointment for me.

I am not sure when/if i will buy civ4; possibly after the last patch/mod for it is completed.

ps: to me civ3 was always a hybrid of civ2 and the imperialism games, so nothing much new had been made for this game.

I'd say Civ3 started it's golden age when conquests came out in Oct 2003, but does continue to this day. Actually, the overall viewing at Civ3 C&C forum has dropped from about 110-130 users before Civ4 came out to what is usually 75-100 now, but there's still plenty of people to keep it alive and vibrant. I do think there will be a sharper drop off once Civ4 C&C comes more into its own and when more PCs that can handle Civ4 become affordable.

Back when Civ3 came out a lot of people said Civ3 sucked, was buggy, unmoddable, and too much of a memory hog late in the game and stuck with Civ2. Once the expansions came out and better mods where being made, Civ3 started to look better and now the Civ2 forums are essentially a ghostown now. But, there were fewer users at CFC back then and Civ3 has much more modding material than Civ2, so I think Civ3 will have more staying power.

Agreed.

And it's just plain easier to mod Civ III, and the people modding Civ III *may* be too lazy to learn how to mod Civ IV. (Guilty)

i think what keeping people form CIV4 is that most computers cant handle it, even though the specs make it seem as if it can. I dont think people hte the game, just that they are unable to play it. LIke Chris said, once cheaper and more affordable computers come out, in whic they support Civ4, there will be a huge decrease of civ3 fans and a huge increase of civ4 fans.

^ Yes, I agree with you, but I observed a strange attitude from the posters from the Civ4 forum: I was really very surprised to find out that A LOT of them hated Civ3, and think Civ4 is much better, and that a lot of them treat Civ3 veterans like primitives. I received some insults while posting in the Civ44 forum just because I mentioned that I use to post more in the Civ3 forums...

If future Civ4 veterans (now they are all noobs! :joke:) will get to rule the civ comunity, not here, because I am sure we won't allow them, but on other forums/websites/real life, Civ3 might dissapear faster than it deserves to.

Ya its get kind rough over there. Ive set off smoke alarms on more then one occacason, just defending our game from their flame. One guy even mischievously deleted then reworded his post after I had keenly rebutted his arrogant original reply, all just to make me apear talkin nonsense to myself!!. :crazyeye: Becareful! There no stangers to unscrupulous tactics overthere. Procede typing with caution :)

I jumped over the fence a few times, taking interest in new units they have (stealing concepts :devil:). I don`t hate Civ4 (well, mebbe a little, cos its taking away people from this community :(), I just hate the way it looks ;)

Ya its get kind rough over there. Ive set off smoke alarms on more then one occacason, just defending our game from their flame. One guy even mischievously deleted then reworded his post after I had keenly rebutted his arrogant original reply, all just to make me apear talkin nonsense to myself!!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

This reminded me of the time, three years ago, when i would use similar tactics in the Europa Universalis 2 forums :)

It's not a golden age, per se, but we are getting alot of modders today. I have no problem with civ4 modding (they have some pretty cool stuff, like their WH mod and Anno Domini for civ4, :eek: ) but anything you mod in civ4 will look ugly, and take alot of effort. All that Python and crap just to make a low-poly mod seems useless to me.

i think what keeping people form CIV4 is that most computers cant handle it, even though the specs make it seem as if it can. I dont think people hte the game, just that they are unable to play it. LIke Chris said, once cheaper and more affordable computers come out, in whic they support Civ4, there will be a huge decrease of civ3 fans and a huge increase of civ4 fans.
Good point. It's funny this happened to me with civ3 - my computer wouldn't run it, and that's why I joined the community so late.

Maybe, however my computer runs Civ4 just fine. I still dont play it. It looks pretty and I like religion but it wastes far too much effort on stuff like birds flying out of trees and footprint, stuff I dont care about. The eary game just rushes by, and I like ancient times.
But the biggest thing for me is ease of moddability, some great mods and it plays quickly. Civ4 just strikes me as a bit gimmicky; a lot of the fights are out of synch and so on. The effort should have gone on playability.
I still play EU2. I want gameplay, not flashy graphics that too often dont live up to the hype.

I dont HATE Civ4. But I dont play it either. And I couldnt wait for it to come out. I wanted to love it. Not sure if I will ever love it.

yeah, exactly like me.

I have Civ IV, but I don't have time to learn how to mod it (lazy!). I play it, sure, but I like modding better.

And I am working on Civ III mods, cause I won't have to spend time learning how to mod again, and because I am basically continuing a project, instead of going on a new one.

I think the Civ 3 Golden Age is long over, like somehweres about 2004. But we're in that late game stage where we control like 3/4 of the map and could destroy the damn french and zulus who are stuck on a cruddy island of mostly tundra in one turn if we wanted to, but we don't want to since we're busy cranking out spaceship parts.

Yeah! Alpha Centauri, 'Ere we come :)

Unfortunately, sometimes the endgame may be a bit boring though... But it's lucky to have those zulu's and french as a comic relief - demanding the silliest things... :)

"Give us your World Map! Or Else!" "But I gave that to you four turns ago. And I have Nukes so shut up." "Oh. Okay."

My problems with civ4, compared to civ3:
Modding is harder, with more files to go through, hense duller.
When you have gone through x files to add a line of change, you barely notice it.
We have almost everything we need here to make a great mod anyway. What's the point in requesting a thousand things that we have here for civ4?

I'd say Civ3 started it's golden age when conquests came out in Oct 2003, but does continue to this day. Actually, the overall viewing at Civ3 C&C forum has dropped from about 110-130 users before Civ4 came out to what is usually 75-100 now, but there's still plenty of people to keep it alive and vibrant. I do think there will be a sharper drop off once Civ4 C&C comes more into its own and when more PCs that can handle Civ4 become affordable.

Back when Civ3 came out a lot of people said Civ3 sucked, was buggy, unmoddable, and too much of a memory hog late in the game and stuck with Civ2. Once the expansions came out and better mods where being made, Civ3 started to look better and now the Civ2 forums are essentially a ghostown now. But, there were fewer users at CFC back then and Civ3 has much more modding material than Civ2, so I think Civ3 will have more staying power.
Were enjoying a civ3 Renaissance here! not a golden age, like Gold Flash said, that happened a while ago this game has some magor history. this renaissance could inspire a great surge of new masterpieces

NewsFlash we 126 at 12.40!!highest reading taken this early since who knows

Ya staying Power is so huge for Civ3, Mark my words, with the power of mega mods on the horizon, Civ3 will hang withits slow big bro all the way up to Civ5. the last expansion slowed the game even more, {added atthe % od useres whos computer exp slowdowns late stages} Ii
f the next one dosn't speed it up its another dis for all and fuel for 3. We love extra stuff Bigget better games with the CIV name, but when the goods were sold in a box with misleading specs from the begging, things get tricky adding more to a problem package, basicly its arare circumstance thats helped along with mods that extend and excel are game for times to long to estimate

I think there is too much attention and worry spent on how much or little of a golden age this is.
It doesn't matter.
What matters is: Are you playing a game you enjoy? If yes, then who cares what version number it is.
For me, Civ3 is still fun. I play it as often as my limited schedule (for now) allows me. I have Civ4. I have high end hardware, and no problem playing it. It is not a MOO3 (which may have killed that franchise). But neither (in my opinion) is Civ4 a winner. Civ4 is fun to play, just not as fun. It has some interesting features, which I wish I could add to Civ3. But, ultimately is lacks too much in game play. The barrier to modding is too high. I have the programming (etc) skills to overcome this, but so long as the base game isn't worth it, why should I? Lastly, civ3 plays faster on most systems. Looks as good or better (especially the units are better).
But, despite the general superior game play, civ3 is ultimately doomed. But, I don't care. Because the Civ4Dummies makes game play easier on new players, and the basic game is faster and simpler to learn. Also, most new civ players are getting the newest version.
Thus this can hardly be called a golden age, renaissance or anything of the sort. The fact is that alot of us who played both Civ3 & Civ4 prefer Civ3. This is especially true of many of those that have mod'ed Civ3.
Until Civ3 finds someway to grow the user base and not just retain parts of what it once had, it can not be considered more than a really good but older game with a limited audience. Do I care? Should you? nope.
Once I get more settled in my new home, I intend to get back to making a few things for my own use in Civ3 (which I will naturally share here, if it is of at least middling quality). But, my loyalty to Civ3 ends the same day a real successor comes out.
I suspect that this will eventually be some version of Civ4. Because I can live with the ugly units and other issues, once a few other issues are resolved (easier to MOD, better game play (ie: artillary, ZOC, etc).
But if Civ4 continues to be bleech, I'm content to play Civ3 for a few more years until Stephan finishes his take on it.

Well spoken Bjorn, and welcome back :)

I wonder what CiV will look like. I hope they go back to basics :)

I think there is too much attention and worry spent on how much or little of a golden age this is.
It doesn't matter.
What matters is: Are you playing a game you enjoy? If yes, then who cares what version number it is..
[QUOTE]
Who cares?? I sure do. The amount of quilty work being put out, 'or lack of' DIRECTLY effects how much "I am playing a game I enjoy. SO.. yes I'll be happy with my sence of a approaching renasounace and will enjoy it with communit,y helping with whatever I can :)

I Know that Civ3 time, as long as it continuess to grow, will be much longer then Civ4's time after the realese of V Why do I care?, cause I know then, I was right.
The game I gave so much of my time (playing Disscusing-Civ3 forum, was the better crafted of the series all along. In my own weird way I was utalizing(sp) my time correctly capiltalizing on the better product(not giving in wasting time on hype). Enjoying a classic stratagy game with amazing artists/modders and the coolest community behind it

Slow down your typing, this isn`t a chat, you have time to reply :)

T.A. Jones, I hope you're an ESL guy (english as a second language). Because despite you taking the time to edit your post, I still can't understand what you were trying to say.
All I got out of your message was you care if Civ3 was having a golden age because you will know you were right. I should hope that I misunderstood you and that you have better reasons than such a shallow one for selecting which game you enjoy.
"the civ3 time continues to grow"... huh? You mean the length of time Civ3 is being played by someone continues to grow? So what? Do you mean that the civ3 audience is growing?? It is not. It is shrinking but still quite significant. Again so what. If you enjoy something, enjoy it because you enjoy it not because of its popularity (or lack there of).
The Civ3 sun is setting. But sunsets can be beautiful too. After all, the largest, comprehensive ww2 mod ever is just about to be released. But just because cool stuff is happening, doesn't make this some rebirth. It just means that cool stuff is still happening. I suspect that the body of work available for Civ3 is such that few will ever have the time to play all the variations and mods even once let alone to boredom.

T.A. Jones, I hope you're an ESL guy (english as a second language). Because despite you taking the time to edit your post, I still can't understand what you were trying to say.
Just a lil sloppy, I erased the last quote tag and a few of the words I was using when I was slicing your quote, so the edit was for proper representation bud ;)

All I got out of your message was you care if Civ3 was having a golden age because you will know you were right. I should hope that I misunderstood you and that you have better reasons than such a shallow one for selecting which game you enjoy.
I could have moved around and got into CIv4. but I felt the place was here and it was time to get comfotable and enjoy the renasaince. I utilized my time getting a better understsanding and deeper outlook of the game, figuring how best to adapt and fix flaws instead of running to Civ4, a lesser alternative as answer to solving them.

Ivesat back and watched The modding levels in graphics animations even soundtracks, leaderheads, terrain, pedias script, all set new bench marks. Player who jumped ship to Civ4 back in October never realized after they left the level of quilty through specifics I mentioned created a conquests of far higher quality. I was rewarded in being right, in this way.

"the civ3 time continues to grow"... huh? You mean the length of time Civ3 is being played by someone continues to grow? So what? Do you mean that the civ3 audience is growing?? It is not. It is shrinking but still quite significant. Again so what. If you enjoy something, enjoy it because you enjoy it not because of its popularity (or lack there of).

theres a renasounce going down what kind of reponse is SO WHAT?, no better then my original statement!......So the MAC players got a taste this year. Players picking up Civ Complete after being dsiapointed by the nastiest I mean newest release,
My conclusions were going from the forum numbers,there not shrinking, its stable, even beating Civ4 C+C forum certains every week.proof of the Ren, and like I said the more modders doing there thing, the better selection your going to have, along the chance of more "new level" masterpiece(s) ariseing.

The sun is high in the sky. You say who cares about the popularity, or Why should I care? I already told you. THe level Of partcipation on Civ3 C+C forums makes the quality and quantity go up over time. The proof is in the pudding What so hard to understand, don't you see improvments over the years. More selction? Can't you see popuartity is important and is fueling Civ3 life through mod development. Mods are Exactly what we all play now . its the mods that carry this game and the reason the title of longest lasting in the series belongs to Conquests ala mod. It'l be around longer cause its powered with a sleeker, faster, more responive, more attractive, more invloving gameplay, easier to use mod design basickly a engine that was made for this genre thats been upgraded by the modding crew to last

My head hurts :( Guys, slow down.

Ya stormy thanks for never sinking your teeth into my all to common grammical disasters :)
You know, Not every "edited by T.A" you see is my attempt to clean up what I had just written, Sometimes Im even adding to it :smoke:
Cheers man!
Edit: say Bjorno I hope SOE is to your likeing when she hits the shelfs, just from what I read on the thread it seems you were never seeing eye to eye ( and publicly stated it) with the big man behind the project, something about never being able to be his friend,... ahh I'll drop it, I m just hoping thats all water under the bridge ,cause I hate seeing memebers chew out others on their own thread

It's not a golden age if there are moments when there is only 1 registered user online (me) in the C&C forum and some guests. This happened to me several times.

(Sorry to rain on everyone's parade ... it looks like i've brought my depressive atitute from the OT Forum :p)

EDIT: Btw, i didn't read all the stuff you posted. I must have thought i was in OT when i saw such huge posts per page. :mischief:

T.A JONES, don´t let discourage you. :) Sometimes you write more with your heart than other posters, but most times I think I know what you want to say :D . I remember, that it was not so long ago, when a moderator said, that nobody in these forums should be condemned about his skills in English - and this must be true for all people over the world, even for "EFL´s". You started a good thread :goodjob: with more replies than I got in nearly all my threads together. :D

I said the same about a Golden Age for C3C in this thread (post 49):
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=177063&page=3

Interesting is, that a lot of posters in this thread are saying "the Golden Age has passed long ago, or it comes" or something like that and don´t define what is the "Golden Age of C3C" for them.:D

If the "Golden Age of C3C" is the position of a game on the market by selling copies of that game, I would share so nice statements about the "sunset of C3C". But I define the "Golden Age of C3C" as a new level of gameplay with
C3C and I feel we are on a step to reach that new level. One of my contributions to reach the new level in gameplay for C3C is the "enhanced techtree". Some other concepts I have to improve the gameplay of C3C are not posted yet.

It seems, T.A JONES, that you define a good part of the "Golden Age of C3C" as a majority of C3C-posters in the CFC-forums over the Civ 4-posters, which is also an interesting side of the definition of the "Golden Age of
C3C.:D

Edited: p.s. Bjornlo had contact with the SOE-team

i always enjoy reading these types of threads :D

however, i feel that civ3's "golden age" has indeed passed. i remember thinking to myself at around this time last summer that we were then at the apex in terms of user created material. and furthermore, that w/ the dawning of civ4, we'd essentially be starting over from scratch in terms of the aforementioned user created material. little did i know at the time how bunk the new version of civ would be. that's immaterial to this discussion though...

imho, i'd have to consider it a pleasant surprise that civ3 has sustained itself for so long after the release of civ4. i've had this discussion w/ a few modding compatriots. specifically, how well some of our scenarios are doing so long after the release of the new civ game. so from a gratification standpoint, it's nice to know that others still enjoy C3C.

i should state though that i personally would still be playing civ3 (and modding it as usual) even if there weren't such a great holdover. i mean, i enjoy it and nobody could take that away from me. so, considering that, i know that i've recently found new and innovative schemes to make my own C3C experience an even better one.

as a sidenote - i've got 2 humongous projects in the pipeline for civ3 and they're not far off from a public release (AoI and a WW1 scenario). after that, i intend to update TCW and there's the possibility that i could even revisit the Vietnam files i put down long ago (unknown crash bug which may be curable now).

Yes I'll close my this thread now I should have mentioned the word renasounce instead of Golden age. I should have mentioned earlier I agree with you guys on the golden age being long gone.
The age right after Conquest was released, when Civ4 had yet to be develped and everyone was concentrating on making Civ3 what it is today,That obviosouly was thCIv3 the golden age.

Here's my explanation for the majority of disagreement in my thread. Simply mistaking the word GOLDEN AGE with the word renaissance has caused a major misunderstanding and quite frankly made me a lil embarresed by my behavior.

Thanks Civinator for putting a few things in perspective. All the new works by selected artists, projects such as SOE, warhammer 2.5, a new one called the GREAT EPIC are what get me exicted. For others its something else. To see the monthly contests all churning out new animatons and other originals is uplifting. it all equals, in my mind that other time of innovation , the "Golden Age" we all agree was in the past.

So Im talking a reawakening, not a golden age. I gave some example on this thread of the events and reasons that have supported my opinion, A lil misunderstood, as per usual :rolleyes: its been a good read all the same

as a sidenote - i've got 2 humongous projects in the pipeline for civ3 and they're not far off from a public release (AoI and a WW1 scenario).

Hi El Justo,

your two projects are one of the reasons, why I said, I feel we (the civ-community) reach the next level in improving C3C. The possibility for a better naval "system" -also it seems that naval battles in C3C are still better than in Civ 4 - and a lot more units and cities on the map by cutting down some trade calculations and a simultanous gain in strategic options - all this are cornerstones you have set for allowing us a better gameplay in our Civ 3 scenarios and mods. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

the "Golden Age" we all agree was in the past

No, I don´t agree. I think it´s in the near future :lol: (from my perspective) :lol:

WH 2.5 is coming out, SOE, Fallout, alot of Betas, Scenarios, plus, everyone has to stick around for atleast 10 years so they can see my mods! :D

But alot of thigs similar to those listed above were released recently. And some time ago. And waaay back then. I`d say we are constantly having a Golden Age :)

I dont know if this is a golden age or the golden age is past I think its more important to concentrate on what you enjoy for me that is Civ3. I feel that their are many more things that can be done as mods and scenarios and as long as people continue to play the interest for the game will live on.

The GA will probably last till the price for Civ 4 goes way down. I think that has a little something to do with it among other things. Civ3 is much more affordable and is less taxing on pc's, due to lower requirements.

I just don't think you can say a golden age can exist when the successor is already here.
Ask the Civ II fans if the golden age of Civ II occurred after Civ III was released.

And though I am no fan of Civ IV in its current form, it will get easier to mod the game, and more and more player-friendly mods will be created.

It is only a matter of time, as as far as I can see, almost every trick that can be squeezed out of the lousy Civ III game engine has been squeezed out.
(Kudo's to El Justo with about 2 or 3 ground-breaking concepts in the last year).

The Civ IV game engine currently is lousy as well. But the source code is available to be modified.

Now, if the Civ III code could be procured, then you would have the golden age of Civ III. But that has been done to death (different thread), and I have a better chance of dating Jennifer Aniston than any of us getting a hold of the Civ III source code.

The GA will probably last till the price for Civ 4 goes way down. I think that has a little something to do with it among other things. Civ3 is much more affordable and is less taxing on pc's, due to lower requirements.
I
m not sure but respect your opinion. Im one that could afford Civ4 and just perferred the work coming out of C=C forums better.

an example I coundn't stand the look and feel of the Civ4 terrains . But also I could never go back to playing on the old Civ3 vanilla terrain ( plain ol ugly IMO)
I needed Rhye's greener( A mix with snoops an another artist's Jungle rendition)

Ive heard a large group speak both ways One guy saying they packed it up ( Civ4) cause of techinical insufficancies and others who can't be bothered with the gizmos, time wastimg gadgets and perfer empire size not mini type gamestyle,

IMO Its a closer split(dif in opinion) then the forum lets on

Congrats on your new princess :king:

Well then, I_batman, you know what you've got to do!

Anyway, I am yet to release anything here. ("Oh, that lousy good-for-nothing who takes all our hard work and doesn't come back":D), but I will do.

And may I also state that although Civ3 is sure as hell declining, I'm still having fun with it, and I'm learning one or 2 new tricks with the editor nearly every day.

Wait, the cIV source code is available? :hmm:

Then, why isn`t the C3C code available too? :confused:

civ 4 is fully fully moddable on all levels. it doesn't really have a source code, sorta.. its all programming files etc..

So, whats preventing them to release the source code for civ3 too? I don`t get it.

Or why don`t they let Steph and the other guys who know what they are doing to make a "patch" allowing more modability? Mods are free, they don`t harm anyone..

Mods are free, they don`t harm anyone..
You've got that only partially right. They are free, but they have harmed my social life quite enough already... :)

So maybe it for the greater good. Like, you know, the elements of your social life are having more fun without you :p

Sometimes I get this strange urge to smash your green face into tiny bits. And then burn those tiny bits. And then I would like to drown those tiny bits. And burn them again. Then I'd want to bury those tiny bits into the ground, and then I'd dig them up and put those tiny bits into tiny skewers and roast them on a mild fire and serve them tiny bits with a bit of mustard and french fries to the other ladz.

Phew :p

See, that kinda attitude ain`t gonna get you much social life! :mischief: :lol:

So, whats preventing them to release the source code for civ3 too? I don`t get it.

Or why don`t they let Steph and the other guys who know what they are doing to make a "patch" allowing more modability? Mods are free, they don`t harm anyone..

Hey ya, I heard some news on the RFRE thread, great stuff actually, Pink is having his mod released on some type of Civ3 product( Not sure really if the project its all Civ3 based) . Mybe they plan on doing a lil more milking before the code goes out.

When it does finnaly get released it'l be like a shot of pure adrenaline(sp) to the communtiy". About that Release with Pinks RFRE mod- * sniff * sniff * I think I sence another "golden age" a comin' :p

Dude, they can sell the patch, just fix the damn thing! More culture styles, and more civs, and.. stuff! Preferably a 5th Era too!

Yes and more sets of icons for watching citys grow( a tiny and humougous one)with more varitys of styles and looks for each city

And a cool City view that can scroll up an down with improvemnts with flic files for modded building and wonder animations!

THey could make a sequal just improving/ adding lil bits here and there.

Fix the train system so you start with twice the speed of road then a new tech gets you faster like Amtrack or monorail mybe at the end of another tech its faster still but no unlimited movement

Oh gee:undecide: Here I go... better go out for a smoke:smoke: Later dude

Yes I'll close my this thread now

he, he... This is the 19th post after the thread was closed :lol:

It seems, not only El Justo enjoys reading these types of threads :D

:he, he... This is the 19th post after the thread was closed :lol:

It seems, not only El Justo enjoys reading these types of threads :D

Yes I'll close my this thread now
:cringe: Umm yes And me see the grammer things not really comin along for me so well is it??. .:undecide:

No, dude, you and grammar ain`t doin` so fine there. Avoid it. Become an ork. :D

Yeeaf! Grammer is for dem 'uman-fings

thanks Civinator and I_b for the nice words.

there are still lots of things that could be enhanced/utilized w/ the civ3 game engine. i know it has its limitations and all but hey - we can only work w/ the tools that our present. :D

and for all those who dream of the civ3 source code: don't hold your breath gentlemen. i reckon that pigs may fly before we get our grubby paws on such a thing :p

*Watches pig fly past window*

"Boy, that hippie must sure be out of it."

EDIT: Because otherwise I look like an idiot *gasp*

Hey who's talking about me? Hippie is spelled "Hippie", duh.

Hey who's talking about me? Hippie is spelled "Hippie", duh.
Im completly distraught :scared: . My threads taking a hammering from the grammer police : :D

Congrats on your new princess :king:
Thanks man.

If the source code ever got released for Civ3 it would reach a platinum age.

Well.. It just might get released :)

True. this thread had good timing no sooner did I post it, we get news of something big on the horizon. Mybe the biggest piece of supporting evidence I could ask for.
Man an to thinks someone here, on the Civ 3 Side! actually was saying we were on the way down? Shame! wheres the love! :shake:

True. this thread had good timing no sooner did I post it, we get news of something big on the horizon. Mybe the biggest piece of supporting evidence I could ask for.
Man an to thinks someone here, on the Civ 3 Side! actually was saying we were on the way down? Shame! wheres the love! :shake:
I am so tempted to say "I got your love right here" instead, I'll just ask what supporting evidense you're refering to.

Well Im tallkin about a ren returning to Civ3 modding. What happens next a couple mods from great artists are said to be on a new release from Fireaxis.
Civ3's less in decline the day after the message was delevered as compared to the days leading up when I was talking with you. Agreed?.

I wasn't asking for your love, so thats Ok but just more faith in what could be was simple what I was sayin with that statement. Relax

108 logged on, nice numbers. We lost to 4 by only 3, thats close for game thats been out since forever. Anyway I had a bad vision I have to share. All that talk bout a new expansion possibly, had me worked up a bit, till it sank in:

2K games is heading to the consoles with Ciivilization CLASSICS, That means 2and 3, hell even one, all bundled heres where the mods fit in, plus the best mods RFRE and DRIFT's as 'bonus DVD-like' options :(

No patchs, no BIC no nothing but rehash on a 700$(canadian) PS3

Sorry to scare everyone, mybe the sounds good to some, I know I liked console games whwn I was younger. Tekken was my favorite The PS3 version will be incredible. The last release , Tekken 5 had all the old releases bundled together.

Just like the new Civ Console game (Civ5 :cry: ) is going to bundle history with the new. Thats right Civ 1, 2, 3 with 3 including top notch mods as bonus material will be available shortly after or just before christamas. Some crappy vision man. I was lookin forward to the X-pak on the pc, Now that seems like dreaming to me:(

is that speculation or fact?

I think/hope it's speculation.

Anyway I had a bad vision I have to share. All that talk bout a new expansion possibly, had me worked up a bit, till it sank in:

2K games is heading to the consoles with Ciivilization CLASSICS, That means 2and 3, hell even one, all bundled heres where the mods fit in, plus the best mods RFRE and DRIFT's as 'bonus DVD-like' options(

Hi T.A.Jones,

like El Justo asked: Is this a fact (than please give us a link if possible) or is it speculation ?? You spoke of a "vision". When I spoke of a "vision" in the threat about a new expansion pack for Civ 3, I made everybody clear, that this posting (about TeT´s mod) is a speculation.

If it´s a proofed fact, than it must be posted in the thread about a new expansion pack for Civ 3 to inform the Civ 3-community.

But one thing would stay, if it should be only for consoles: TeT is now working again for more than 3 months on his big project again(http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=29279&page=116 posts 2302 and 2304) and there is a change that we can get this in the future. If we don´t have to pay for it, because Firaxis and Take Two make some unwise decisions, may be we get this mod with it´s new interface sometimes for free. ;)

I picked up a free limited copy of Civ 4 and was a little disappointed by the feel af the game. I missed the solid feel of Civ 3 and, to be honest that put me off the idea of buying Civ 4 when it came out. It also got me playing Civ 3 again, and I have to say that IMO Civ 3 has potentially got years left in it, but the community needs just a bit more support from firaxis to realise its potential. There are some fantastic mods out there, like RFRE, WH, Heretic Casa All in One, MoM, etc. These mods could keep me amused for years, so for me personally, this is certainly a renaissance for Civ 3.

What we could use from firaxis is the remaining problems being ironed out i.e. the last patch being finished and released with a slightly improved editor. And an events editor must be a pretty simple thing mustn't it? Basically it can just be a bit of code that sits in front of the game (a bit like CivAssist), and lets the modder tweak the game situation a bit when certain perameters are met. (Having said it should be quite simple I should also say that it is way beyond my means.)

I guess that the Joker in all this is TETurkan. If he is working on something for Civ 3 then I would bet that it must be something big.

Final thought - I wonder if firaxis are holding back a bit on perfecting Civ 3 because they want everyone to move to Civ 4. It's not a pleasant thought because if that's the case then we can kiss the source code goodbye.

is that speculation or fact?
Oh sorry man, it was just a vision, would have told ya earlier but was out. my friend from B.C'sin town. :smoke:

I did hear some comments from a guy who has the same push(RIGHT NOW) as Greenspan did on the amero doller, he made a discouraging comment. Thats it not big deal, I read into it wrong ( the signs) :) but they were enough to flip my thoughts,
bah, everyone knows theres nothing but 'smoke' to a vison, except in Civinators case ;

Civinator coudn't get back any sooner but I do appreciate, as I bet the entire Civ3 forum does , the actual facts you shared on Tet project. Sounds big. I'll lay off my visions for a while. their best in moderation ;)
but you keep up with yours ;)

At times like this, many are pondering the future moves made by the makers and shakers at Firaxis- 2K-take-two, twoever :rolleyes: One things for sure, it shoudn't be long before we find out.

Oh sorry man, it was just a vision, would have told ya earlier but was out. my friend from B.C'sin town. :smoke:

T.A JONES, thank you for clearing this. And if you are interested in TeT´s big project: If you read his posts from page 60 of the following thread, I´m sure you find a link to almost all I did remember in the thread about a new release of Civ 3: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=29279&page=60

And it´s interesting, that Bluemofia didn´t say anything to my question (at present the last post) in this thread, so he is often here in the forums....;) May be, they are not allowed to speak more about it now?

Hello i think this is my first post in CIV3 fanatics but I visited the page and downloaded many, many things since 2003. And I play Sid Meier's Civilization since 1992. So I played civ I, II, III and IV, and I must said I was very dissapointed with Civ IV, but not surprised, since I saw several preview pictures...

In these "3D graphics fashion times", I unfortunately expected the graphic engine of Civ IV. I don't say that Civ 4 graphics are bad, but in some type of games these are inadequate, or at least, less relevant. A game as Civilization stands as one of the better (if not the best) stratey games for PC first of all, because of its game play. I don't like games like AOE (particulary Age of the King, and not precisely because of its graphics) since they had no historical coherence. I see Civ 4 more closely to AOE 3, than Civ 3 was to AOE 2

I am doing now a "all in one" mod, like Steph, with much own work, but based on the work of many people. Since I am a History Student, I want to do a more realistic game (crisis between Feudalism and Capitalism, War based on Economic interests, Colonization and Decolonization, etc) Since it is my first post, I apologize to speak about a different topic, so I finished here. But I would like to have any response to these project (specially from mod makers like Steph or Pinktilapia) to

stonedeloeste@yahoo.com.ar

First: Welcome to CFC Rollinga, [party]

I share your opinion on the graphic engine of Civ 4 . Mainly, because it´s a massive barricade to mod Civ 4 and secondly because most objects look clumsy.

The ideas of your mod sound interesting. But to get more responses - if I were you - I would open a new thread in this Civ 3 Creation & Customization forum with the working title of your mod, explain a lot more about it (what you said is too less for serious responses), show what I have to offer and add lots of screenshots showing the new ideas.

And please don´t highjack this thread for your mod. ;)

A lot of people have found the graphics of Civ 4 to be disappointing, and I'm one of them. TBH I think that when Ares De Borg's second terrain pack comes out then Civ 3 is going to look a hell of a lot better than Civ4.

And WHF did Civ need 3D graphics anyway?

Huh it happen again 114 to 98 in Civ3 favour. More modding going on this side then its predessor . Weird even after the expansion. Never would have thought :)

108 logged on, nice numbers. We lost to 4 by only 3, thats close for game thats been out since forever. Anyway I had a bad vision I have to share. All that talk bout a new expansion possibly, had me worked up a bit, till it sank in:

2K games is heading to the consoles with Ciivilization CLASSICS, That means 2and 3, hell even one, all bundled heres where the mods fit in, plus the best mods RFRE and DRIFT's as 'bonus DVD-like' options :(

No patchs, no BIC no nothing but rehash on a 700$(canadian) PS3

Sorry to scare everyone, mybe the sounds good to some, I know I liked console games whwn I was younger. Tekken was my favorite The PS3 version will be incredible. The last release , Tekken 5 had all the old releases bundled together.

Just like the new Civ Console game (Civ5 :cry: ) is going to bundle history with the new. Thats right Civ 1, 2, 3 with 3 including top notch mods as bonus material will be available shortly after or just before christamas. Some crappy vision man. I was lookin forward to the X-pak on the pc, Now that seems like dreaming to me:(

Geeez T.A Jones, you scarred me on that one! Frankly, I think we better wait now, for there is no news from Take2 and I suspect the hypothesis made above, that they are still considering the release, is correct.

@Rollinga - indeed, open a thread and present there what you have in mind. Anything trying to be historical in Civ3 is thrilling me (but is also very challenging!).

A lot of people have found the graphics of Civ 4 to be disappointing, and I'm one of them. TBH I think that when Ares De Borg's second terrain pack comes out then Civ 3 is going to look a hell of a lot better than Civ4.

And WHF did Civ need 3D graphics anyway?

Because all Firaxis wants it money. They wanted the stupid noobs in the Civ 4 forums with the brain power of a 10 year old to say "Ooh, look at the pretty graphics, I want to buy this game." :rolleyes:

Hey man, Odin was, like, 11 when he joined, and even he seemed to have some common sense ;)

And thats obviously not the reason, no one in their right mind will say that is pretty.. Low Poly is so ugly! Just the other day I was googling for some images, and I saw a thumbnail and thought to myself: "Now there`s an ugly game, maybe my computer will be able to run it?".. It turned out to be World of Warcraft.. :crazyeye:

I heard World of Warcraft was turn based combat too. I think that stinks for a MMORPG. Great for single player games when you aren't really focused. Great when youhave kids, but stinks as far as excitement goes. This is a little off topic isn't it?

^[offtopic] [offtopic]

its ok, we do that from time to time...

I heard World of Warcraft was turn based combat too. I think that stinks for a MMORPG. Great for single player games when you aren't really focused. Great when youhave kids, but stinks as far as excitement goes. This is a little off topic isn't it?

[offtopic] er, still off topic, but the Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights games have a turn based system that runs in real time, and I assume that World of Warcraft is the same - the engine runs in turns, but the user interface will feel like it's real time. And excitement is never in short supply in Neverwinter Nights. (disengaging off topic mode.)

(back on topic) One thing that should be noted, IIRC the graphics engine in Civ 4 is the same as the one in 'Pirates!'.

If i had been a programmer i would be trying to make a utility that allows the use of animated city files. A few frames would really bring civ3 cities to life :)

If i had been a programmer i would be trying to make a utility that allows the use of animated city files. A few frames would really bring civ3 cities to life :)


I really wish they brough back the city view screen. Remember that screen they never used for the Conquest sceanarios?. It be cool to see a city get packed with tons of more buildings like a casino and amusment park etc..I always tried to fill my screen up as much as possible. Imagine a game with twice the building to add mybe even scroll fromm side to side and up and down, to enjoy them all in the modern age. Also the terrain was always well reflected in the backround of the 'City view'. If you were on a plains tile adjacent a mountain, or a river tile, you saw that feature in the backround of your city. Ahh memories

Even better have a flic file for the improvments to add lil animations just the same as units are made only its a casino thats sign lights up or a wonder that has a water fall splash down.
Having a option that limits the amount of animations that run at one time would prevent things from looking to busy

This would add a great modding aspect and improve the 'builders' game tremdously!! really it would be a huge plus for players who like to build everything, Just think how much cooler Wonders would be if you could watch them glisten in the sun or see a little bird swoop onto its roof.

Also with the look of citys on the actual map, I never like the big polygon look of improvments in Civ4
Civ3 had a good way of showing the citys on the map. Expand Using more then ' five 'unique culture 'looks', Make em' change a ' extra time' so twice each era to refelect coming of age. then they had 3 differant sizes as they got bigger. Lets have a even smaller size and a even larger size!



Your smart man. I was brainstorming on a "New ideas for CIv3" thread about 4months ago. The same thing came into my head, and I enjoy your city sets, I was thinkin your one of guys whod be able to light up mods with the tools at the time. Now your on my thread talkin it, Thats crazy man! (cool I mean)

Actually Im seeing some of your work in the Heart of destiny mod Im playing right now, If its not your sets , ithe artists style has benifited from your influence alot!.

Well in theory the Plague function could be altered so as to use it to create a city animation, which of course would have to be specific for each city set ;)

If its properties can be changed so that it has no effect at all (i am not sure how hard/easy that is; i do not remember how editable this is in the c3c editor) then it can be purely cosmetic, and from there everything is possible. The animation could be periodic, and then the "plague" can be frequent, so you would see it a lot. Thus smoke coming out of chimneys would be easy to produce, and more importantly if the sets have a uniformity (eg the chimneys are always in the same pixels) the animation can be correct for the entire duration of the game, for all city sets, nomatter how different ;)

edit: it would seem that no programming is needed, since by setting the plague power to 0 i think that it has no effects at all. Now the only things that should be changed is the txt file (which one is it?) which included the message on the screen when the plague is happening (the message should be erased) and the animation itself. Where is the txt file and the animation? (I plan to make a first animated set :) )

edit2: It would seem that by using the power, grace period, and duration options, there could be no negative effect while the "plague" lasts (?) Since i never used plagues i am not sure of that.

Right, the plague thats intresting..... i was right, you are the right artist for the job. At least we can work with that view of citys

Id also like to see The CITY VIEW make a nice comeback. if it was accessibl to animations are guy could work on making things like Hanging Gardens come alive. Id prefer just wonders and important stuff to have a animation file that would activate when you hit the view vity button.

Join the Sim City aspect back to Civ series. I mean, watch your city flourish, but through the ages. ;)
It takes so much work think of all the image animations changing for some improvmewnts as eras turn anew, and differant animations for differnt cultural groups. Ya your talkin a lot of work, but over time are modders would have enriched the game to unheard of levels

making that whole new system for Civ4, doing it and so ugly, Man I hate seeing that. We could have had a great base(artist's palletee) that are artists could have made thrive, making citys come alive.

Oh well no looking back on what 'could be' We know Civ3 foundation was solid only after we got to expierencew the new shaky, memory sucking failure they decided on, to save money and time. Hind sight's always 20/20

I believe that there is a way to make the city view work in a scenario or mod. You simply have to entitle your mod "Conquests". Not really an ideal solution, but I'm told that it works. Never tried it, though.

urggh! must stop checking the ratings! dam I never used to noticed.Now after a few upsets( CONQ beating CIV) Im finding myself checking out the forums viewership, comparing the numbers:scan: why? I know it can't be a real indicater of anything, still I feel I gotta take a pulse, make sure she's still beating. Good news She's alive and well! :goodjob: :D

More eveidence the Rena--blah-suance(can't spell) is upon us!
Last few times Civ4 has beat the big C in the oven threads (C+C forum :) )
Thats not the News, heres the weird thing. I noticed just 5 minutes ago man your not gunna belive this, the GEN DIS forum had beat out Civ4, ya I know 24-17. Oh Ya Im aware they split from WArlords but then I saw only 11 were on that forum , so still thats practically a tie with a new X pack disscusson factored in :eek: ....

whats with so many on Civ3 gen dis forum all of a sudden, strange night for a game thats really getting old. See Im telling ya man, If this keeps up, one day this Game will become engrained, culture driven like chess but to lesser extent of course.
I mean, I wonder how many times some topics have resurfaced over the span of a few years. lots of generations are coming and going they all get attached a lil bit and they teach their kids one day, thats how it starts....., serious!! :lol:

Darn looks like my vision was mostly right. except its not on console yet!
I had a bad vision I have to share. All that talk bout a new expansion possibly, had me worked up a bit, till it sank in:

2K games is heading to the consoles with Ciivilization CLASSICS, That means 2and 3, hell even one, all bundled heres where the mods fit in, plus the best mods RFRE and DRIFT's as 'bonus DVD-like' options :(


Check the link http://www.joystiq.com/2006/09/07/2k...e-pc/#comments

Civ 4 sucks... :mad: And i wasted almost 50€ on it. I tell you, i was really angry when i played it.

Civ 4 sucks... :mad: And i wasted almost 50€ on it. I tell you, i was really angry when i played it.

If it's any consolation, you're not anywhere near alone ... :rolleyes:

Best,

Oz

urggh! must stop checking the ratings! dam I never used to noticed.Now after a few upsets( CONQ beating CIV) Im finding myself checking out the forums viewership, comparing the numbers:scan: why? I know it can't be a real indicater of anything, still I feel I gotta take a pulse, make sure she's still beating. Good news She's alive and well! :goodjob: :D

8:40 pm Civ3 takes the polls tonight over Civ4 89 to 78 in the C+C threads. Chalk up another strong pulse taken from the True strategy champ......or maybe its just Civ4 getting soft.

What in the world is this thread still doing around? Let it die, people.

Nah I might rename it, its named wrong I meant renaissance not golden age. Golden age is very misleading. Im showing that Civ3 is in fact still the better version by giving proof of its everlasting popularity. Thats why Im logging ever time I see our C+C thread is more viewed then Civ4 on any given night, when I notice that is, Im sure Ive even missed a few occasions. All the other comments are welcomed,even yours( thanks for the bump!)

Lets face it theres lots of unintresting threads on this forum why pick on this one. Its got nothing constructive to follow concering another mod to play, is that it?. It does have a purpose. I think its funny what Firaxians insist is best chapter in the series gets beat by a dino at last 3-4 times a week. Why not let it be know?. Other threads are so much more important? well some, but this isn't worth booing!. Its a good example of a real opinion poll (what is Civ if its not modding). Sales tell nothing, everyone already owns civ3

Add on: Actually after the Mac release we got this new legacy release that will fuel Civ3 some more. Anyone in their right mind(thats all we want here)who decides to enter the Civ series by picking this up should, find the 3rd installment the better game and therfore raise the potential modding audience a bit more in doing so;)

Its happen tonight 59 to 58 for Civ3 over its sequel in the modding thread. Don't no how long that lead lasted, still kind of strange Civ3 ever got ahead in the first place considering Warlords and Civ4 vanilla use the same C+C thread.

No need to reply just had to make a note. :) the time it occured is on the post! Man! whats happing to Civ4 modders this is occuring more and more often. :p

Currently, it's 63-52 in Civ III's favour. It seems to be this time of day that Civ III gets the better of Civ IV - therefore could it be a regional preference? Are many of the Civ IV modders tucked up in bed and soundly asleep at this time?

Americans probably like Civ4 more. :p That would explain it. :)

No wait. It's the canadians.
Blame Canada!!! :crazyeye:

:lol: Sorry, i just remembered that cartoon. :lol:

Haven't felt the desire to buy Civ IV and I'm sure I never will. Civ III - even with its known drawbacks - is the best turn-based strategy game out there. Add to that the sheer endless mod-ability and supply of custom graphics... man you got a winner!

EDIT: oops :lol:

Best turn-based strategy gay out there?

:rotfl:

Haven't felt the desire to buy Civ IV and I'm sure I never will. Civ III - even with its known drawbacks - is the best turn-based strategy gay [sic] out there. Add to that the sheer endless mod-ability and supply of custom graphics... man you got a winner!

I actually bought Civ4, played it for about half an hour, then put it back on the shelf to gather cobwebs. Perusing the modding forums for the game gives me migraines. It's not even that so much knowledge is required to achieve proportionally little, it's that integration of different ideas can be contradictory within the code/files/scripts -- and man does it ever neeed modding. Given the graphics and AI, the overall effect reminds me of the worst of Rise Of Nations and Civ2 mixed in Dr. Frankenstein's lab. Bleh.

-Oz

79 to 73, Civ3 in the lead again, a little earlier tonight, hmm mybe the Civ4 modders like to get their sleep. I hope there moms arn't sending them to bed without any supper. ;)

Serious though, its all the time now Conquests has a real footing on the modding Biz. Has anyone considered The releases that are set for the next few monthes? That includes expansion on hit mods(can't wait Heretic cata, don't forget the pedia :lol: ) We can continue to assume A python has nothing compared to the incredible hold Civ3 has on this forum, and thanks to the talent it won't relingish any time soon.

I know you don't here me saying anything when were getting clobbered and thats 1 cause its becoming increasingly rare, and 2, cause on all acounts according to the press, seemingly endless fanboy and the paid posters acclaims and quotes of the best chapter yet, we should be getting raped on particapation and 'interest' ratings all the time. This is not the case however. I mean imagine If Civ2 was doing this ta Civ3 monthes after PtW was in stores.And Civ2 was a classic. A lot Less modable though I imagine,wait a minute does that even matter?

Edit: sorry I had to clean up another grammermental disaster and ended up filling it in a lot :blush:

Im almost ready to put money on these numbers. Today i recorded Civ3 winning but truthfully, it was mostly close all day ( Ya Ive been posting through out the day :blush: ) if it was football Civ3 would have covered the spread 89-79. as of time posted. Had to mention the latest results as to help disprove any time related theories on why Civ4 + WARLORDS is lagging so bad;)

Given the graphics and AI, the overall effect reminds me of the worst of Rise Of Nations and Civ2 mixed in Dr. Frankenstein's lab. Bleh.

SIgged... For Great Justice! Seriously, I couldn't aggree with you more... I'd rather go back and play Civ II Test of Time (which I still do play from time to time).

Its a record!! The earliest documented time Ive seen Civ3 give Civ4 another beating in the popularity contest.

We had a 15 person lead over a game that was released 4 years after ours. HA well for those who said it was flike those few times a posted monthes back, well Civ3 got even older, CIv4 has added another X-Pak and guess what? CIv3 owns the pven threads even more now then back then!!! What, huh :p (to CI4 players)

SIgged...

I consider myself honored. :beer:

Best,

Oz

What is this thread stil ldoing alive? Let it die, people. Please.

What is this thread stil ldoing alive? Let it die, people. Please.

IMHO it serves to reinforce our sense of community. I am certain that (1) after all the extraordinary work that's been done by the modding community and (2) the initial flight of talent to Civ4, that it's fine to remind ourselves that much of our work was and is valid and excellent, and that what we've collectively created represents a stand or statement against the notion that a product of the Civ3 lineage - Civ4 - has been targeted to a different audience, is in many ways inferior to what we have created, and that marketing forces (Oooh! Look! It's newer and shinier!) will not cause the abandonment of our ongoing efforts.

How's that foir a run-on sentence?:D

Vehemently Yours,

Ozymandias

The return of R8XFT to C3C modding (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=186614) should be proof enough of a Golden Age.

The return of R8XFT to C3C modding (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=186614) should be proof enough of a Golden Age.

This afternoon we held the lead for over a hour after I had posted, Oh ya Blue Monkey I meant to say renaissance here . That to me sums up this miracle were now witnessing, better then a Goldie does. You only get one goldy Happend a few months after conquests I imagine. Its a return the same A1 productions the goldy days provided.
Civ 3 amazing longevity accomlishments can only be compared to this.....

Imagine Civ4 beats Civ5 in ratings for mods and creation and development every day of the year, a year after CIv5 was released!!! Thats essential whats happening right now with Civ3. Hard to imagine a low poly, puss puss game like CIv4 could ever replicate Civ3's feat. It will be long forgotten by the fans after CIv5 been sitting on sheves for a year. Ths feat will never be accomplished by any other chapter in the series. Civ2 coudn't capture the intrest for as long, so how will Civ4 in the face of a juggernut like CIv5.

I don't need any reinforcements. If it becomes necessary, I will solely keep up the Civ3 modding community. :p

I fixed my computer so that means I'm back in unit business.

How's that foir a run-on sentence?:D


Wow you did a better job then me!..of Making sense that is,;) but you can't touch my run ons.

Hey Gold 'flash in a pan' :p lets not get to worked up over there! Ok?.. Ya What waz that thread you got there? Brum? Right..... Ya, Greeeeat... um, look, Im gunna have ta go ahead n' ask ya to not to post here, nkaaa? Especially with no purpose or reason whatso ever, then to complain, atleast while you got that lil number still in existing. Ok? Greaaat :sleep:

Its incredible that interest for CIV 3 still is so strong despite the fact
its 2 years since Firaxis dropped its support.
There has not even been a patch for 2 years.

This great game still has a lot of potential.

If the current owners of CIV 3 does not want to invest one more dollar,
well then there is just one thing to do:

Sell it!

I am sure there are many companys that want to develop CIV 3 further.

Rocoteh

Its incredible that interest for CIV 3 still is so strong despite the fact
its 2 years since Firaxis dropped its support.
There has not even been a patch for 2 years.

This great game still has a lot of potential.

If the current owners of CIV 3 does not want to invest one more dollar,
well then there is just one thing to do:

Sell it!

I am sure there are many companys that want to develop CIV 3 further.

Rocoteh
well said my friend :goodjob:

to be honest, i really like this thread. it truly shows just how much the civ3 community stacks up against the civ4 community. and it also indirectly shows how dissatisfied much of the existing civ3 community was/is w/ civ4.

in retrospect, there was not that much of a flight at all of civ3's best artists/modders over to civ4. so this in itself speaks volumes. every once in a while i go to the civ4 boards just to see what's cooking over there. and i recognize maybe only a few cfc users!

i don't anticipate leaving civ3 modding any time soon. i also have a few different projects on the back burner and at some time i hope to complete them all. so count me in!

If the current owners of CIV 3 does not want to invest one more dollar,
well then there is just one thing to do:

Sell it!

I am sure there are many companys that want to develop CIV 3 further.


I couldn't agree more. Do that, or they could release the code. There are many great scenarios out in the Civ3 community, but they would be even better if the Civ3 editor was more powerful ie: more flags, more options.

Civ3's golden age is long gone, but I can feel it's just on the edge of a renaissonce. Consider the "charm" and "teleport" functions as the newly discovered gunpowder not yet practical, but very soon it will be.

As for modding civ3, i and some friends have been thinking of things to make civ3 way better, but arnt possible without some serious programming. For example: ECONOMIC victory.

I couldn't agree more. Do that, or they could release the code. There are many great scenarios out in the Civ3 community, but they would be even better if the Civ3 editor was more powerful ie: more flags, more options.

Guys, let's face facts. Assuming Take2 owns the Civ III code, they will only release the code if they think it won't impact Civ IV sales, or the impact to Civ IV sales would be offset by a larger profit issuing an improved Civ III that the Civ public would have to pay for.

Hell, no one has released Civ I or II code yet, so free Civ III code is a dream.

Now, I am no businessman in the software industry, but I am guessing for Take2 just to recover set up charges, they would have to sell 100,000 CD's. I coule be out by a factor of 10, there. I really have no idea. And those costs would not include the cost of coders to upgrade and test the code. (will get to that later).
Are there 100,000 people out there willing to drop 40 bucks on a new CD that would be essentially a wish list of all the things we would like to see fixed.
I doubt there are that many.
I am betting there are maybe a couple hundred people active in the Civ III threads. Assume that Apolyton has the same amount. Maybe collect all the other sites, and you could find a total of 1000 people who would pay. To actually have a market of 100,000, you would need the people on all the Civ III sites to represent only 1% of the people who would buy the CD.

I just don't see that happening. I think the people on these sites are the vestiges of the hard core Civ III players.

And what about the code itself? Do we know that the original source code is still around, and not locked in some hard drive that was formatted, then smashed, before the server was sunsetted?

So let's assume their is a market of people large enough to cover set up charges, and let's assume the code is intact.
But Take2 is unlikely to assign coders to the game, since they don't understand all the issues the hard core players want fixed, and also Take2 has more profitable games those coders would be assigned to.
So let's assume that Take2 listens to a crazy fan like me, who offers to project manage the code fix, for free. This fellow would then need an extremely small team (3-4) hotshot coders who are willing to slave over the source code for free. Most of the kick-ass coders are working on Civ IV projects (check the threads). And a large team if coders would be inefficient, at best.

The product produced by this small team would probably please a lot of the hard core players, but how much effort could these guys give to the project. We all have jobs or are going to school, and this is not a trivial task.

There are an awful lot of if's and maybe's in this diatribe. But the more I think about this, the less likely it will ever happen.

That being said, I am still a dreamer too.
Can anyone confirm for me that Take2 actually owns the Civ III code. I might just write a letter to Take2 if they own the code.
Maybe Thunderfall or some of the other admins can confirm who the actual owner is of the source code.

Can anyone confirm for me that Take2 actually owns the Civ III code.

Hi I_batman,

in this thread, post 48, 2K_jason, said, that Take2 doesn´t own the source code for the first two Civ games (Civ 1 and Civ 2). http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=185405&page=3

He didn´t say that they don´t have it for Civ 3.:D

I am betting there are maybe a couple hundred people active in the [/B]Civ III threads. Assume that Apolyton has the same amount. Maybe collect all the other sites, and you could find a total of 1000 people who would pay. To actually have a market of 100,000, you would need the people on all the Civ III sites to represent only 1% of the people who would buy the CD.

. Its not only people on forums that use Civ3 or want to play but just havn't realized it yet, ;)
You got no idea how much this site shows a larger picture. I consider others who missed out on Civ3 before, but could be tempted with a upgrade, as another reality you never factored in your estimate.

In fact quite like a weaterman having no obligation for truth or way to confirm you predictions you forcasted a rather bleak report. Think of this forum as a scale model to a larger audience. We have casual players and heavy modders but all want to see a improved release. Its like this around the world. But We'll see what that legacy Pak includes, theres always a chance....

. Its not only people on forums that use Civ3 or want to play but just havn't realized it yet, ;)
You got no idea how much this site shows a larger picture. I consider others who missed out on Civ3 before, but could be tempted with a upgrade, as another reality you never factored in your estimate.

In fact quite like a weaterman having no obligation for truth or way to confirm you predictions you forcasted a rather bleak report. Think of this forum as a scale model to a larger audience. We have casual players and heavy modders but all want to see a improved release. Its like this around the world. But We'll see what that legacy Pak includes, theres always a chance....

Quite correctly, you pointed out that my numbers are pulled out of thin air.
I stated that in my original post.
And yes, they are bleak.
But bottom line, if it was profitable for whomever owns the Civ III code to release an improvement, they would have done so already. And the legacy pack is a money grab. It is the entire Civ series in one package. There is nothing new in it. That has already been posted in other places.

Quite correctly, you pointed out that my numbers are pulled out of thin air.
I stated that in my original post.
And yes, they are bleak.
But bottom line, if it was profitable for whomever owns the Civ III code to release an improvement, they would have done so already. And the legacy pack is a money grab. It is the entire Civ series in one package. There is nothing new in it. That has already been posted in other places.

Right. I just had to higlight, make the part where you forgot to facter in other consideration know, for a weak audience was a major part of your reasoning.

Now bottom line. Yes ithe source won't e out for free, cause it is valuable for a later money making venture. bottom line we make our own future if demand for Civ3 stays strong, chances of release of upgraded Civ3 stay strong. on the opposite if Civ3 popularity diminshes, chances begin to erode.

Now where back to the disscussion at hand. What this thread is all about :)

but are we all quite sure there are no new features or extras??? I mean what purpose could releasing the same 3-4 games have?...unless they put something in there for us modders it will be exactly like the Diablo2 "Power Pack"(or whatever they called the big box they put diablo 1 & 2 in)...a dead sale...

Ive watched the CIV4 boxes sit on the shelves at the 2 computer stores I frequent...and dont expect them to go anywhere...I dont see how releasing outdated versions of a game that isnt selling is going to help...

@Firaxis (Or whoever owns Civ3) you have hit a pinnacle...Civ 4 is a step down...you should do something to revive this great title, and stop flushing money on flashy garbage(civ IV)(ok not flushing, but not raking in the dough either)

I only wonder where the Civ 4 sales compare to other games of the same release dates...I would think...not so good

but are we all quite sure there are no new features or extras??? I mean what purpose could releasing the same 3-4 games have?...unless they put something in there for us modders it will be exactly like the Diablo2 "Power Pack"(or whatever they called the big box they put diablo 1 & 2 in)...a dead sale...

Ive watched the CIV4 boxes sit on the shelves at the 2 computer stores I frequent...and dont expect them to go anywhere...I dont see how releasing outdated versions of a game that isnt selling is going to help...

@Firaxis (Or whoever owns Civ3) you have hit a pinnacle...Civ 4 is a step down...you should do something to revive this great title, and stop flushing money on flashy garbage(civ IV)(ok not flushing, but not raking in the dough either)

I only wonder where the Civ 4 sales compare to other games of the same release dates...I would think...not so good
i admire your positive outlook :) however, i would think that we would probably have been apprised had these programers actually did a fixer-upper on the civ3 code. no?

so imo it's strictly a money grab. and honestly, who wants to play civ1? or even civ2? i know there's still a follwong for these versions and all but come on now...they say that civ3 was released 5+ years ago but those other titles are pushing 10-15 years!

what i think would be aninteresting comparison would be to evaluate civ3 sales for the 12 months or so after its release in comparison to civ4 sales for the same time period. and additionally, the sales for PTW compared to Warlords...

what i think would be aninteresting comparison would be to evaluate civ3 sales for the 12 months or so after its release in comparison to civ4 sales for the same time period. and additionally, the sales for PTW compared to Warlords...

Agreed...if there was something new...we would know...

and I too would like to see the numbers regarding Civ3 vs Civ4...I bet they paint an obvious picture...from what Ive seen(I have civing friends who only lurk here...several of whom(myself included) bought Civ 4 and either took it back, or leave it sitting while playing Civ 3)...Civ 4 was a bad idea...I dont know about the whole world...but in my small experiance, CIV 4 cant be doing that good...

Whoever owns the code, would do better releasing more updates, than anything for CIV 4...IMO

I agree with Spacer One entirely. They should release more updates, or patches, or other Civ3 products rather than something new for Civ4. They will lose the fans if they do more for civ4 and people buy that new products hoping for something better and are eventually dissapointed. Because they won't do it twice. And if they do, they won't do it three times. ;)

I'm definetely going to support the Civ3 community and modding community if not anything else by words and encouragements. How could I leave it now, when I just started to learn how to do the basics! How could I leave it now, when all the modded things are here, just waiting for me to try them, and when the experience and work of years of the artists led Civ3 to such perfection in graphics and concepts? I, for one, can't. Sometimes I might be busy for a really long period of time, but I won't leave any time soon.

Let's face it - Civ4 was an attempt to expand the franchise to appeal to the widest possible audience (aka "lowest common denominator"). Historicity, complexity, and gameplay were all sacrificed for a "sexier" product. Unfortunately, what we wound up with (fellow patriots, forgive me, for this is true) is the equivalent of Euroland at Disneyworld with customers thinking they've experienced the "real thing" and now don't have to "bother" with traveling to Europe. (:aargh:) Furthermore, anyone who's followed my posts over the years knows that I don't believe there's ever been a serious commitment to the modding community. We've either wound up with the effectively unsupported menu option approach in Civ3 (flags not working; the so often misleading on-line "Helpless" as I so lovingly call it) or the Let's-throw-the-kitchen-sink-at-them-and-then-let-them-dare-whine approach of Civ4.

One of the many things I personally treasure about this Civ3 modding community is the ingenuity and creativity its members have shown in the proverbial making of lemons into lemonade. Our results speak for themselves in mods, units, graphics, and the creative use of available and mod-able mechanics.

Here's to us.

All Best Wishes,

Oz

Here Here Oz...Here Here :hatsoff: :clap: :beer:

OT: what the hell is this??? ::sheep:

The releases of Civ3 are as follows

Civ3 Tin Box Edition
Civ3 Vanilla
Civ 3 Play the World
Civ3 Game of the Year eddition
Civ3 Conquests
Civ3 Gold edition
Civ 3 Complete

And now 8. LEGACY EDITION
Civ3 was a lisence to print money for these guys. With all those cash grabs already it hard to believe were going to see another one that keeps the exact same game. WHy? cuz the other 2 games can be found in doller bins at Zellers if your lucky. ( paying 70 bucks for 'Windows edition' is not Justified)---thats leave 4 which is the only evidence they won't upgrade CIv3.

Evidence for changes...
A Firaxis guy admitted on the MAin page thread, the only game that would be included in The LEGACY packaged that they had the source code to was Civ'3.( civ4 was released with source code!)
After put on the spot directly after this statement as to any improvments being done to Civ3 this time around, he mysteriously disapeared!!:eek: and never returned after dropping by more then a few times before the question was brought up.

Makes me wonder if he was keeping a secret. I mean, if its true what some say, that theres only a few thousand CIv3 players out there, he coudn't be to worried that his anwser would have MUCH of a negative impact on sales. Why didn't he confirm it? "Theres nothing new On CIv3?" what the big deal?. ............Unless, they have a last minute pitch thats desighned to create major stir just days before it hit stores. In that case he would be under a gag order and his avioding a important question that pertains to a major piece of the Package- while anwsering less importamt ones- would make more sence.

or maybe there was a hint of ambiguity so that "not answering" would be taken as a "yes" and we would get all excited...I hope, but dont expect anything...

as for "the dollar bin" CIV 4 is on discount at Target(big green 25% off stickers)...so I would expect to see it in there as well in 6 months to a year...not a big money maker for the franchise I wouldnt think...

As for 1000 or so Civ players...I hope there are more...I see 1000+ d/ls on some files...assuming every civ player in the world doesnt know about CFC(blasphemy I know)...there have to be more...considering that there are 10000 d/ls on some civ4 files...the audience is still there, they just need something new to draw them back to civ3...

@firaxis (or whoever is releasing Legacy) ARE YOU CRAZY??? UPDATE THE GAME :please: OR DONT BOTHER!!!!!

[offtopic] ...this again...: :sheep:

Dam right! the whole idea of them daring to drop the same crap with a card game included, to a completly fresh audience of thousands is so off it can't be ther intention. I listed all those releases to show FIreaxis must know everybody alreadys shelled out there cash for whats been done so far..

Civ4 sales were just exausted and Warlards isn't included in this PAKAGE to shock sales back to life.

Civ1 and 2 are bargin bin priced games you can't expect a 70 dollers shell out for those can you? ... No, so you see why with only that little nugget of evidence I presented I can rationalize for a small bit of hope for a Civ3 upgrade. Theres also those communty made mods that havn't been mentioned by anyone yet.... But trust me my hopes arn't up, no not, with the way things are be'n run with this newly formed MEGA corp

BTW....Corrections/ I meant 10000 or whatever I_Batman said.

didnt they release an incomplete version (playable but missing graphics) of DYP with Civ3 complete??? whats to say they wont include something as pointless(especially pointless to us modders)???...Im hoping that they have bothered to fix the problems with the editor, and thats all Im hopeful of...any "bonus features" will prolly fall short(seriously...?? a card game??)...if they exsist at all

didnt they release an incomplete version (playable but missing graphics) of DYP with Civ3 complete??? whats to say they wont include something as pointless(especially pointless to us modders)???...Im hoping that they have bothered to fix the problems with the editor, and thats all Im hopeful of...any "bonus features" will prolly fall short(seriously...?? a card game??)...if they exsist at all

I mentioned that Mod thing last minute shoudn't have cus it diluted my reasoning but ya they did and it was total bogus, except that tracking dwn the missing files is how I found these forums so it paid off in the long run in terms of content I was able to accuire

No forget that mods Im basing my hopes on the realization that nobody in their right mind can be as greedy as to go after money for the same stuff that many times. If they say Well. we got new content here- its called the Warhammer Mod!!!:mischief: Nah.... ANyway Heres hoping for a more powerful bic, Thats all we need

There is no justification to use fan made content in an expansion. Sure, it may put a feather in the cap of the mod creator, but charging us for content that we can get online for free is crap. I don't want any mods or scenarios with a new release (rerelease, whatever) of Civ3, I want bugs fixed, and an editor that has more horses under the hood.

There is no justification to use fan made content in an expansion. Sure, it may put a feather in the cap of the mod creator, but charging us for content that we can get online for free is crap. I don't want any mods or scenarios with a new release (rerelease, whatever) of Civ3, I want bugs fixed, and an editor that has more horses under the hood.

Exactly, Thats what Im wasting to many words trying to express. Civ Complete already did that. So can they really do it again?

Were doomed if they read Civ4 forums. If they see all those devoted 'fans' screaming praise from that heaping pile of candy ass crap they got dumped on em, they will be quick to reason YES!!! we give them card games and dvd's featuring their hero Soreen n now its well worth the money :sad: It depends how dumb n fanboyish they think we are as a whole. Do they look here or there.(civ3 or CIv4) Thats what will decide how they play us.

( Ive got nothing agaist the the designer I know he was half of the team that made CIv3 ) just mybe not the better half?

On numbers:

Based on download-stats and other stats I say its reasonable
to assume there are still more then 50 000 players of CIV 3 around the world.

New PC wargames will sell in 5000-10 000 units.
However an updated CIV 3 would reach a much larger group then wargamers.

Some months ago Matrix Games bought The Operational Art of Warfare
from Talonsoft. It have now been reworked and republished.
I assure you: TOAW is not for everyone.
Still there is a market for it.

To conclude:

Of course there are still money to make from an updated CIV 3!
Then there can be business-agreements made (not known to the public) that will prohibit a new release.....


Rocoteh

On numbers:

Based on download-stats and other stats I say its reasonable
to assume there are still more then 50 000 players of CIV 3 around the world.

New PC wargames will sell in 5000-10 000 units.
However an updated CIV 3 would reach a much larger group then wargamers.

Some months ago Matrix Games bought The Operational Art of Warfare
from Talonsoft. It have now been reworked and republished.
I assure you: TOAW is not for everyone.
Still there is a market for it.

To conclude:

Of course there are still money to make from an updated CIV 3!
Then there can be business-agreements made (not known to the public) that will prohibit a new release.....

Rocoteh

Rocoteh, are you sure that new games can sell 5,000-10,000 units and still be profitable?

That seems like an awfully low number.
But as I said before and you alluded to, if upgrading Civ III was profitable, it would be done by now.

But as I said before and you alluded to, if upgrading Civ III was profitable, it would be done by now.

Not necessarily. Other factors often come into play, such as whether or not a company is properly configured (personnel, organization, funding, strategic goals, et. al.) to turn out a product. Besides, we're also fighting an uphill battle against the perception of what a "new" entry into the computer game market requires -- else why would there be inferior 3d graphics in Civ4?

-Oz

Yeah, my brother, who is an aspiring Pro 3D graphics artist, noticed this disturbing trend at an expo put on by the art school he went to. There was an animatronic baby that looked almost real (he had to look at it for quite a while to figure out it wasn't), but everyone there ignored it in favor of OOOHing and AAHHing at some crappy 3D animations that my brother could whip out in about 5 seconds, and I could do in 5 minutes or less.

It is my opinion that I could take a nice healthy crap into a computer game box and slap a nice shiney title with the words "BRAND NEW 3D!!!!!!1111one" in the title, it would sell. It's really sad. AoE III was kind of the same way, however, at least the graphics LOOK good (about 10X better than Civ IV, and AOE III Is REAL TIME), and the gameplay actually requires some serious strategy, and the different factions require widely different strategies (I.e. the Russians strategy is based around massing cheap infantry, whereas the Germans have a pretty balanced unit line that's augmented by Free light cavalry with every home city shipment). Point is, I still play AoE II more than I play AoE III (for one thing, AoE II, even with 8 factions on a Gigantic map with a population limit of 250 each won't slow my computer down near as much as AoE III in the late game stages when everyone has massive armies on the go), because I just like the era and gameplay style better.

It is much the same way with Civ IV and Civ III with me, only more so. I haven't seen anything at all that appeals to me with Civ IV (crappy 3D terrain, crappy, single culture group 3D cities and crappy, low polly 3D units, and crappy dumbed-down AI).

Not necessarily. Other factors often come into play, such as whether or not a company is properly configured (personnel, organization, funding, strategic goals, et. al.) to turn out a product. Besides, we're also fighting an uphill battle against the perception of what a "new" entry into the computer game market requires -- else why would there be inferior 3d graphics in Civ4?

-Oz

I agree with you about the other factors coming into play.
And I also agree about the uphill battle re. 3D.
I just think that Take2/Firaxis has made the business decision some time ago they can make more money allocating the business' resources to projects other than an improved Civ III.
And that is that. No amount of wishing will help, unless Take2 is convinced they can make money within the Civ III game engine.

I dislike Civ IV for all the reasons detailed a million times.
But once I am done helping El Justo a little with a couple improved TCW biq's, I am focusing my attention on Civ IV, mainly because the crap game engine that was released by Firaxis, CAN be improved.
Civ IV graphics, ugh, but I have never played Civ for the graphics, even though there are some gorgeous units being pumped out still in Civ III.

And I will be the first one back to Civ III if they ever prove me wrong and release the code or an improved Civ III game engine.

I dislike Civ IV for all the reasons detailed a million times.
But once I am done helping El Justo a little with a couple improved TCW biq's, I am focusing my attention on Civ IV, mainly because the crap game engine that was released by Firaxis, CAN be improved.

Ah, but therein lies the rub (he wrote, risking sounding Shakespearian). I actually debated learning / re-learning the 3 languages involved -- until I realized that there is NO INTEGRATION TOOL WHATSOEVER! So incorporating even the simplest script or file change from someone else's works means assuring (1) that there is no contradiction with whatever else you might be modding and (2) that they have taken the same approach you've taken (i.e., chosen the same logic etc. to modify). I've managed many programmers at a time, and of course began that career path managing far less; irrespective, even with just two people working in tandem, it's good and standard practice to coordinate programming efforts far, far more than is currently - or ever will be - possible in Civ4.

Thus endeth the rant of the day. :gripe: Or hour. Or whatever. :mischief:

Best,

Oz

someone should copy-n-paste this thread and mail it to Take2/Firaxis....

Seems like our only hope...otherwise after the horrible sales of Legacy(I assume...am I an ass? or are u??)...that the CIV3 game will lose any chance of update...maybe it would be possible to convince the money grubbers that another CIV 3 expansion would sell...even if they spent 75% less on advertising and distribution...if it is only available online(CIV3 web site) there would be no packaging, no shipping costs..

good info being presented here, but ive been neglicting my dutys!!

CIV3 leads 72 to 71 tonight, Yaaayyy...... :sleep:

Hmm I wonder If fireaxis even likes us Modding. I mean The Parents 2k, lose a lot of money if we mod the same game and don't by any new ones. Correcton: they will start to lose money if they continue to make modding more enjoyable, or continue to improve already enjoyable modding material.

SO, how do they put a stop to it? I'll tell you :) They make CIv4 so dam hard to mod but advertise its THe Most Modable version yet!!. This way they get money from us and can't be blamed for putting a stop to it themselves," hey they tried" they can say. Ya they tried to make it so confusing- Hard -Tedious that everyone gives up and goes to buy new games. Ok I could go deeper but you guys hate long thredz :D

So now I can see why they won't make a better Bic for CIv3 and why NO ONE IS ON THE CIV4 CREATION + CUSTUMS threads.

UPDATE: CIv 3 widens lead as night goes on 76 to 71 ;)

I would agree that making MODding easier might hurt sales, but they did it...too late now...so dont put any new units or anything...just release the editor updated...make it a $15 box...no game...very little programing(a few bug fixes, maybe some new features)...they wouldnt even have to "Brainstorm"...all the ideas are here on CFC...Id be willing to bet they could grab some of the users here and those users might even work "Pro Bono"(however you spell that)

Hehehe... pro Bono. It's pro boner, idiot, :p.

(Or pro bonum. Or pro John Bonham...)

Ya they did make Modding easy and fun but thats before they new what would happen when they did it. Most receantly they made it less fun Proof: is in the numbers. Theres no way Civ3 should be anywhere close to Civ4- in particiaption ratings, but it is. ( Civ2 never was, never this late in the game- or ever)

So making it all powerfull they save face by showing they give value- making it unfun they save their target audience revenues from being hoarded by players who are way to satisfied with a single sale for way to long- Like us!

So there learning from Civ3 to move away from making one game indespenabal TO A MASSIVE AUDIENCE but will give massive power to a small group of people with patience and perserverence and proper know how to struggle and succed with all that crap- only to play an a slow machine.or Bad terrain or Some other variable that still suck the fun from the game, so Good for them :( .


I like what Spacer says I wish they would make that Kit. For them its a lisence to print money., No operatonal costs, they still keep the source code And all those players thed'd target have already given there money for CIv4 (Not warlord cuz we already wised up by then!!)

wow Odin...when a Lawyer works for free, its called "Pro Bono"...way to stick your foot in your mouth...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_bono

"idiot"???

Rocoteh, are you sure that new games can sell 5,000-10,000 units and still be profitable?

That seems like an awfully low number.
But as I said before and you alluded to, if upgrading Civ III was profitable, it would be done by now.

I batman,

Yes its from an serious source.
Then as anyone can see its not big money with regard to wargames.

However should there not be an updated CIV 3 the reason can be prestige.
I mean Firaxis prestige.

Rocoteh

Hmm... Do you think, if we:
1. Made a petition of at least 1000 people
2. OUTLINED EXACTLY what we, the modding community want
3. PRIORITISE the list (So feature 1 is more important than feature 2 for the community)
4. Send all information to Fireaxis/whoever owns Civ3

they'd listen?

Probably not o.O/

Nope!

I think it'd be hard to get 1,000 names on a petition anyway. There aren't that many active C&Cers.

They wouldn`t even bother to say "no".

They wouldn`t even bother to say "no".
True, but I see they actually bother to come here and read stuff, all of em, from time to time.

To think some guy (not just a programmer), who was positioned deep in Fireaxis power center, read something here once, actually agreed, then brought it into the office and used his by chance :) power of persuasion, hey! it woudn't surprise me at all if we got what we wanted!.

I know!, I know! they only like to use there posts as free advertising :sad: but it might actually benift the community some day yol see. Crap who Im I kidding :rolleyes:

It is the same with any old game: slowly and steadily only those who actually make mods for it continue to care. The public/players dissappear. And there are not that many people who create new gfx for civ3; probably less than 30 here at least, and this should be the most active civ3 site.

Still, if you compare the civ3 fcf forum, with its analogous forum in apolyton, for civ2, things are more active here. Then again in total the modding level of civ2 is far beyond what has been ever done for civ3, as can be seen from the use of all of the use of the bugs in the civ2 engine to make the game more interesting (using the bugs as part of the game, to allow for new features).

...the use of the bugs in the civ2 engine to make the game more interesting (using the bugs as part of the game, to allow for new features).

Comme on varwnos,

now please tell us what you are breeding about. ;)

I tried to re-discover it today, but i do not remember how i made it happen :/

It has to do with saving the pcx with transparency, making the file a lot larger although on the surface keeping the supposed size that is allowed. On the screen you get to see all of the file though, without any crash.

I will try it again and get back to you ;)

I tried to re-discover it today, but i do not remember how i made it happen :/

It has to do with saving the pcx with transparency, making the file a lot larger although on the surface keeping the supposed size that is allowed. On the screen you get to see all of the file though, without any crash.

I will try it again and get back to you ;)

On the surface ? Do you mean on the top of the City file? This sounds really interesting. Since a longer time I try to enlarge the size of resources on the map without a result. So it could be possible, to make files that are so big that they could cover bigger parts as a city? A file which when placed properly, can place all cities of Europe with different graphics on the map (or something like this) ? :eek:

Edited: Could it be, that you loaded a large resource file as a city file or something like that ?

Hey Civintor, welcome man! did you ever hear from Fireaxis on that question you had? :) Don't worry I already know, He must have needed a bathroom break all of a sudden-that lasted forever! ;)

Ya whats whats with this CIv2 thing? I think the artist is advertisng for his latest expieriment using bugs in CIv3? Hey next time just drop your link so we all know. :) I don't care, the last last expiriment you did with smoke coming from the City sets originated here as well. Your making the CIv3 mod possiblities more open so all the power to you, that Includes this thread for launching your ideas to a bigger audience ;)

I just compared the state of the civ2 community in apolyton, with the civ3 one here ;) (all of the people there are modding, and there are not many left)

I do not think that anything will come from exploiting civ3 bugs. Perhaps this could happen (to have a huge file with all european cities with different graphics) but then again who would make them? (and do not say that i would :p ). In reality the game is too old for such massive new exploits i think.

I just compared the state of the civ2 community in apolyton, with the civ3 one here ;) (all of the people there are modding, and there are not many left)

I do not think that anything will come from exploiting civ3 bugs. Perhaps this could happen (to have a huge file with all european cities with different graphics) but then again who would make them? (and do not say that i would :p ). In reality the game is too old for such massive new exploits i think.

I don't just facter in all the people modding Civ when comparing its popularty over Civ 4 I also consider all the people who have stated thier disdaste for CIv4 whenn consdering how a new upgrade of CIv3 would fare on release ( its a big market)

And now your a pessimist? huh? I could say the game was to old for city sets to become animated right? but 5 years after release, they were blowing smoke True?

I do not think that anything will come from exploiting civ3 bugs. Perhaps this could happen (to have a huge file with all european cities with different graphics) but then again who would make them? (and do not say that i would :p ). In reality the game is too old for such massive new exploits i think.

Sorry, in my eyes C3C is not too old for such massive exploits.:lol:
And I like such kind of exploits very much :) and would never say, that you would have to do this if you don´t say this yourself. I would put in such a file a lot of still existing Civ 2 graphics, combined with my city-resources. ;)

But first, you must rediscover what you have found. :)

There is a bug being exploited by Kingpin for the TBXR mod. He has shared this programming bug possibility with me for The Omega Project. It Involves the ability to teleport units to another unit and it works according to his testing team.

He just sent me the files and the instructions on how to configure it today.I can't say much more than that without getting in trouble I think, so don't ask for more right now, but the point is that new and expanded possibilities are coming to civ3 all the time without fireaxis. look at the recent discovery of the defend slot in the ini. look at what that opens up for possibilities, a whole new animation style that hasn't even been touched yet by unit creators. Imagine how much new content that one little discovery could cause if say aaglo, Wyrmshadow, Hikaro,Utah,etc....Decide to pick up that new possibility and run with it! What else don't we know about the ini file? we assume that the blank entries don't do anything but have we, as a community actually tested it all out? We need to stop hoping,begging and pleading that Fireaxis will expand this game(because they won't) and do it ourselves! If we want to keep new stuff coming into civ3 we need to bring in new blood from other areas,expand the brotherhood. Goto other games forums with modder's and get them interested in the modding possibilities civ3 has for the game that they are currently involved with. For instance; I went over to the Classic Battletech website forum and picked up a thread asking about a civ3 Battletech mod and pointed the people to TBXR and The Omega Project for their Mech addiction.

T.A. Jones this is a mission for the preacher extrodinare that you are, take your message of civ3 greatness to the other masses of game forums and return with your flock brother!(make sure you come back with a unit creator or two)

I'm going to stop now because I'm scaring myself and I know that most people don't like to read long preachy posts :mischief:

I am still waiting for help in turning a gif/pcx to flc, so as to actually upload the plague/we love the king/whatever animated city file :)

In reality the game is too old for such massive new exploits i think.

Oh, tsk! tsk! good fellow! :) Has anybody even followed up on the "hidden" editor buttons for Teleport etc.?

HA HA...I wasnt gonna say anything, But Im trying to get teleport to work in a consistant way, to incorporate in to the stargate system...but its still in the testing stage...

HA HA...I wasnt gonna say anything, But Im trying to get teleport to work in a consistant way, to incorporate in to the stargate system...but its still in the testing stage...

Back in 2004, Gramphos divined, using his "Cracked Editor" that:

"Did some tests with teleport and this is how it seems to work:

A unit that has the teleportability can teleport to a unit with the telepad ability, that is listed among it's legal telepads, and is within the telepad range or to a building with the telepad ability (infinte range).

When you teleport to a unit that unit loses one hitpoint, and you can't teleport to a unit with only one hitpoint

A unit that have the conditions met for doing a teleport will have a icon with a T in it, that says unused control, which does the real teleporting."

Have Fun ;) ,

Oz

I am still waiting for help in turning a gif/pcx to flc, so as to actually upload the plague/we love the king/whatever animated city file :)
I offered to help. You just didn't read your own thread. ;)

CIv3 leads 55 to 47. Well I'll sleep better tonight. Goodnight:sheep: :sleep: :sheep:

71 to 66 Why is Cic 3 so much more polular now?

:spear:--- Civ4

[Civ3].

---- :) :) :) ------
This lil dude with the spear is the Mascot for Civ3. He's the underdog who cheers his victory!, his latest beatin he dished out to Civ4 in the oven threads arena!.. Way to go!!

71 to 66 Why is Cic 3 so much more polular now?

Because the Civ 4´rers are all playing the incredible new Warlord-expansion and have forgotten to adjust their game clocks! :lol:

Because the Civ 4´rers are all playing the incredible new Warlord-expansion and have forgotten to adjust their game clocks! :lol:

Is Warlords that good / popular - by "good", I mean does it make Civ 4 worth playing?

Dubiously Yours,

Oz

heh - i think he's being facetious :p

heh - i think he's being facetious :p

Hmm ... On second reading, methinks you're right. :)

Best,

Oz

Is Warlords that good / popular - by "good", I mean does it make Civ 4 worth playing?

Of course: no :D -and it´s interesting that the number of Civ IV posters is going back so drastically short after the release of an expansion pack. When an expansion pack was released for Civ 3, the number of posters at CFC always shoot high significantly.

We are ahead again 59 to 55. I'll leave off with saying that everyday Civ3 will supasse Civ4 at some point. The volume of players who tune in has slowed somewhat for both games this past week.

I believe more younger people who are less intrested in the creation aspects of modding are fans of CIv4. This might contribute to its early demise as compared to Civ3. MOd developers will feel their lacking an appreciative audience. less respectable feedback, less reliable play testers, less Grapihic contibutions, means more work for the fewer modders who are great at what they do.

Sevo's and Fall from heaven will have a billion downloadsbut no new mods to keep the kiddies intrested in Civ4 makes them get bored fast and move quickly to other youth oriented material. community support will dwindle very fast for CIv4. This is how it goes when your targeting younger audience. We can already see the effects starting to take place n' wait till the Eve of Civ5. Numero 4 will be long forgotten. Sevo's and Fall from heaven will have a billion downloads

Thats all tonight. Please continue with your regularly scheduled reads at are numerous other informative Production threads and get caught up with the latest. Goodnight :)

Yeah! Power to Civ3 and may it's C&C-community never lose it's appeal :) :thumbsup:

At the moment, Civ III is leading by 105 to 99 - I've not seen it lead before at this time of the day - I've not seen it have over 100 people viewing it for a while.

i've seen it over 100 recently. yesterday morning -5 GMT actually...

Today I dropped by for a few minutes, and I was alone! Except 1 lurker :)

There's only one explanation for this:

Aliens are coming down with their laser-guided heat-vision, and vaporising all the Civ4 modding community because they want to keep that überishly addictively fun game all to themselves. Is there any other explianation?

Incidently, I've finally found a reason to use this emoticon: :borg:

I meant I was alone... here..

I meant I was alone... here..
Ya I wasn't sure (until now) were you derive the numbers from, but so you know, I get them by clicking the FORUMS on the Main page and comparing the C+C numbers for both differant forums as a whole. That icludes all the oven threads not just this specific dissicussion forum. Its a way to see whats happening as a whole out there-

-----otherwise I could pop in. like you did, and see mybe one person but, next door in the same Factory theres twenty peeps talking about Unit Construction, ya dig? I go for a bigger picture on comparison

but the c&c forum numbers include all of the sub forum numbers

:lol:

Nice punchline. Add a slightly confused look : :hmm:

Are you guys adding the mod development forums to your numbers, because that's all Civ 4 numbers there?

C&C forums- civ4: 76
civ3 82

General: civ4: 26
civ3: 21

Stategy: civ4:47
civ3:13(ouch)

GOTM: civ4:11
civ3:12

I think we only get better numbers in the C&C forum...this was at 6:30 EST

alot of people PLAY civ4, because alot of people out there dont even understand what "Modding" is...but the ones who do seem to sway slightly toward civ3...

but the c&c forum numbers include all of the sub forum numbers
Oh ya your right. :crazyeye: Still I can't see how the viewers for CIv3 could be only like one or two according to stormrage, cam you?

So thats why I tried to clarify!( did bad job) When you walk into this Main room as a signed in memeber, does it show all the members who are in the Graphics, Unit, Sceanrio and Mod sub forums as well?, if not then thats why he saw such so low numbers. Thats what I meant!!

We got a nice grip on this C+C Bit#h and thats the essence of the Civ series. Losing in the Gen Dis forum isn't going to effect my selection of mods in teh future so I coudn't care less, but Damm look how close even those numbers are. (thanks Spacer)

It does show all the members who are in the sub-forums. He was obviously in here at a quiet time. Or he scared everyone off.

Or he scared everyone off.

No. He´s the most polite ork-fan I know. :) WAAAGH!

lol...but everyone knows Orks have that lingering smell...

(just Kidding Stormy...but orks do stink)

Hey, its squigg parfume! French people eat snails! So there.. :mischief:

Actually Stormrage the way I heard it is they eat frogs, witch I eated once thinking its an (Pileci Gulas) don't know how to say in English maby "Chiken Goulash", may I say it ain't that bad, infact its good until you found out its a frog goulash :lol:

They eat frogs AND snails. I eat ice cream. Back on topic, whats the current numbe status, people? :cool:

Strategy:
3: 8
4: 63

General:
3:32
4:30

C&C:I was on early this morn and there were 8 people here(civ 3 c&c)
3:88
4:90

Bad morning for Civ3, or good one for Civ4...

Oh and Americans eats frogs legs too...at least here in the south...along with Aligator tail, Rattlesnake...Im pretty sure any reptile is up for grabs down here... No snails tho...yuck

Hey, its squigg parfume! French people eat snails!

When I remember well my history lesson by SWalker, than the French are Dwarfs and therefore no argument for Orks. :D http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=181759 Post 8

Strategy:
3: 8
4: 63

General:
3:32
4:30

C&C:I was on early this morn and there were 8 people here(civ 3 c&c)
3:88
4:90

Bad morning for Civ3, or good one for Civ4...

Oh and Americans eats frogs legs too...at least here in the south...along with Aligator tail, Rattlesnake...Im pretty sure any reptile is up for grabs down here... No snails tho...yuck

We shouldn't be surprised that the "Strategy" and "General" numbers for 4 are higher than for 3 -- (1) 3 has been out for a loooong time, so much of that ground has been covered, and (2) are your numbers covering Warlords as well? (New twists to the game; new strategies per scenario; etc.)

... And (returning to the amusing culinary OT) the French eat two types of snali, escargot and periwinkle. And frog doesn't taste like chicken! (Neither, for that matter, does gator tail; I haven't tried any form of snake whatsoever, and hope to keep it that way ...)

Best,

Oz

NoI dont concider Warlords in my numbers, as there is no comparison in CIV3 forums...perhaps that poses a slanted view, but I DO post the numbers that seem compairable...perhaps we should decide on which numbers we are logging and stick to the same ones...Only C&C? or perhaps the total number of users on?...

OT: Frog doesnt TASTE like chicken, but it has the same consistancy...and Gator Tail is NOTHING like chicken, or snake either...both eat more like pork...and taste fairly unique...Snails Ive never let pass my lips...YUCK

Ya Id stick with the oven threads. They represeant the pulse in my opinion. Of course if something catchs my eye, like a general discusiion upset ya I post that to. You see if Civ3 beats a game thats still on the shelf thats news, hell its not suppose to do that.

. I remeber the first time I nailed the News to the wall on a differant thread it was called Civ3 scores higher viewer rating after Civ4's dismal patch release! seriously thats what i called it! :p
I started this thread as a weapon in my arsenal for when things got a lil rough over in the Civ3 hate threads. Strangly the threads stopped coming after the last few ended in are favour. I managed to convert a few wayward souls, but latly a fanboy coo has taken a iron fist over the place. Its crazyness no point in trying to rationalize with ....
..... So T.A surmons are on hold for now but goodnews is If you missed my thread before it was shutdown :mischief: I have complete transcripts of my surmans available upon request!

SO ya what were we saying again? :)

Well, considering that there are still some people playing civ2 and creating new units/cities/terrain for it (of very high quality might i add) i would not be surprised if in 5 years there are still some modders around for civ3 as well. Although probably most of them will have dissappeared from the scene.

One main problem with this game is that a lot of the graphics never were even touched. For example there are possibly less than 4 tree mods. That is 4 mods in what, five years? Not very impressive. The fact that civ3 has a lot more gfx than civ2 made it harder for them to be edited that much.

But this is not the only reason for this. In cities, for example, where both civ3 and civ2 uses static gfx, again there are far fewer ones made for civ3 than for civ2. The size of cities in civ3 is considerably larger, which makes it more difficult to create a set (more space to fill) but also some of the more commited civ2 city makers (like Bebro) never showed an interest in doing the same for civ3.

Perhaps part of the reason was that they chose to create units instead.

Varwnos, I didnt understand what you were trying to say...but it seemd like, Civ 2 is still being modded, civ 3 will still be modded in 5 years...

if Im right, I can tell you that I will be modding CIV3 a LONG time...I JUST figured how to start units...and I plan on mastering it before I stop...

Now my new 2 cents worth...

I was poking my nose in CIV4 forums(yes I peek from time to time...just to make sure that the Low Poly graphics still suck etc...)and I found this Gem...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=187457

now is it just me, or...If they are so happy with CIV 4...then why are they...

BTW:
the numbers are terrible right now
C&C:
3:42
4:78

and the rest is even worse...not gonna post it, but lets just say, 2-39 in one category

[edit] I just found this: http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=191
WTF??? did we ever get that for civ 3???

Alligator tail is similar to chicken, in my experience. And you should never eat frogs' legs (or any other part - in Asia they eat the lot, believe me), since frogs are getting pretty rare now and they are typically killed in a very cruel (and unhygienic) way. No-one needs to eat frogs. Interesting fact: India used to be one of the major producers of frogs, until the government realised that so many were captured that the crops were failing because of all the pests that the frogs normally ate. In fact, they were spending more on importing pesticides than they were making by selling the frogs' legs. So they banned the trade, and now most frogs' legs consumed in the west (including France) come from other south Asian countries. Snails are very yummy, though, with lots of garlic, and there are more than enough snails to go around.

Returning to the topic of the thread -

[Spacer One] There are Civ III mod threads in that forum too. However, they are all private, so you can't see them if you're not part of them. Actually, I don't know how many there are (I only know of one personally...).

Here is a pic of a civ2 TOT scen by Catfish (one of the better known civ2 creators, although i think that he is not active in the civ2 community anymore)

http://users.tpg.com.au/jpwbeest/images/WotR_Staged3.png

I doubt that we will see any such level of 2d work in civ3, which is a shame since those civ2 legends could have had moved to civ3 if there werent so many firaxis caused shortcomming with it (no events file; in a battle a unit definately has to die). This ruined the RPG feel so many classic civ2 scens had :|

Damn, that looks a good scenario! I want to get Civ II and play it!

[Spacer One] There are Civ III mod threads in that forum too. However, they are all private, so you can't see them if you're not part of them. Actually, I don't know how many there are (I only know of one personally...).
I'm part of two... so there must be atleast two of them...

Damn, that looks a good scenario! I want to get Civ II and play it!

:lol: My friend, you can get vanilla Civ2 used on Amazon for as low as $0.01 US!

Best,

Oz

thats not TOT var, TOT had "3d" sprites, like civ 3.

It definately is TOT, as you can read in his page as well: http://users.tpg.com.au/jpwbeest/jp_wotr.htm

The civ2 old-timers never picked up on the sprite idea. So they replaced the sprites with regular 2d graphics, using iirc Mercator's utilities.

cool! i never knew that they could do that!

:lol: My friend, you can get vanilla Civ2 used on Amazon for as low as $0.01 US!

Best,

Oz

Well, I'm on a bit of an economy drive right now, so perhaps I'll save up...

Heh, I got a pack with Risk, Risk 2 and Civ 2 for three bucks acouple of years back, :D.

Wow, that scenario does look great! Man, even civ2 looks better than civ4. If I was the guy who made civ4 I`d go and hide under a bed. and die. And let the CFC C3C C&C Community make civ5 (civ2 + civ3 :))

Aye.

OT: Hey, Stormrage, what's got you so pissed off?

Alpha Killer 2. If anyone gets an e-mail from this guy, whatever you do, do not reply! He`s a SPAM fiend! I`m sorry, I have to go brake something.

I knew it. that thing/member was unleashed by fanboys based in Civ4 forums. Its some type of weapon intended to drive us all mad. Insidious Ba#tards those guys are!

Why would Civ4er's care about us retr0 boyz? I say it was either a bored teen or a bored middle aged man. Either way, they were bored. And probably male.

No your right, that wasn't fair to the overwelming majorty over there. ive become jaded at times by a few when sticking up for the game on Civ3 hate threads over there.
Really though, its a very young person (or two) just discovering the forum and the possibilites for mischief they can stir up using it. Innocent enough I guesss. Hey I know I'll donate my copy of civ4. Considering hes probably around 10 or so , he'l love it! Problem solved.

If I were you I'd keep your copy of Civ4- there needs to be somewhere to gather dust in your house! :p

Alpha Killer 2. If anyone gets an e-mail from this guy, whatever you do, do not reply! He`s a SPAM fiend! I`m sorry, I have to go brake something.
The guy with the Stalin Avatar?

He doesn't seem so bad. I've seen worse.

ooook then, in other news.... We are currently dishing out a healthy shalack'n to our good brothers over in the Civ '4um' the viewer ratings are 71 to 64 in are favour. Thats more like it, I say!

Blue, he is forwarding SPAM mail in my mail box, K? I don`t need to know about worse, thats pretty much enough for me to start tearring limbs..

Everyone, this isn't the place to discuss Alpha Killer II. If you get annoying PM/emails from him or anyone else, just PM me or another mod.

Yah, sorry about that, Plotinus. Its gotten out of hand a bit :sad:

We are currently experiencing unusully high numbers today though still down by two 98-96, we are below CIv4 in the rating(daytime temp)

###############NEW FLASH##################
Civ4 stumbles to a new record low in latest lost to Civ3! 53-29!!!:eek:



In other News I figured we needed a huge pick here. I could sence a loss of momentuem coming are way. We needed the return of a modding hero
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=177063&page=6


This man has lost more then many man can bare. Are thoughts are with you Ronning. You are the great apostle of the second golden era

T.A JONES, concerning your last post I have quite another opinion. But in this special case I only say: His nickname is ronning.

Ya thanks for holding back and ya, Ive got a problem with names!

Ronning gave up a lot(not by choice) to make his mod. This guy lost his family cause of the time he put into the GREAT EPIC, such a huge project.

Nobody has heard of him he comes out of nowhere, works off the forums all the while honing his craft. I only meant he'll be a icon of the everlasting popularity and power CIv3 has. His mod will be quite powerful to and so will be the response

87-66 C&C lead for Civ 4, you guys need to start counting mod development for them, they would be in C4C&C otherwise.
30-23 GD for Civ 4.
33-15 S&T, I guess our stories are better.

Been watching this thread for a while but can't seem to grasp why this is significant in any way. Who cares if there are more people viewing Civ3 over Civ4, or where the most posts are? Aren't we all here for one reason, which is: We all love Civ3? So let's just share our hobby and not care about numbers... my 2 cents.

Who cares if there are more people viewing Civ3 over Civ4, or where the most posts are?

Who cares about anything really ? you can say who cares in regard to pritty much any topic cuz in reality its just a video game. Its a thread not like all the rest thats why its safe to put it down. but Its got more to it then just numbers.

Its also a loudspeaker repeatly broadcasting the truth: Civ3 is as played as much as Civ4(at least in modding circles) And alive and well. Who's listning? Who cares? the messge is being sent cuz its true and I feel like broacasting it.


These numbers mean a lot. considering the average joe pops in for only a short time then leaves, when Civ3 has 100 on site thats impressive when it beats CIv4 its even more so.

I respect your two cents and thank you for your contributions

Who cares about anything really ? you can say who cares in regard to pritty much any topic cuz in reality its just a video game. Its a thread not like all the rest thats why its safe to put it down. but Its got more to it then just numbers.

Its also a loudspeaker repeatly broadcasting the truth: Civ3 is as played as much as Civ4(at least in modding circles) And alive and well. Who's listning? Who cares? the messge is being sent cuz its true and I feel like broacasting it.


These numbers mean a lot. considering the average joe pops in for only a short time then leaves, when Civ3 has 100 on site thats impressive when it beats CIv4 its even more so.

I respect your two cents and thank you for your contributions


T.A JONES,


I second this.


For sure it matters!

Furthermore its also a question on how CIV V will look like.
Will it follow the tradition from CIV III or will it follow CIV IV?

Rocoteh

Furthermore its also a question on how CIV V will look like.
Will it follow the tradition from CIV III or will it follow CIV IV?

Rocoteh

Rocoteh My Friend,

I'm afraid it will almost certainly follow Civ IV -- look "sexy" (unnecessary 3D graphics, etc.); and appeal to the widest possible audience, also known in English as "the lowest common denominator". This latter is because most gamers (certainly most Americans) are profoundly ignorant of history, and are content to have far more ahistorical elements than either you, I, or most serious modders -- which means coming away from the gaming experience with a highly abstract (and less than accurate) "feel" of having had an "historical experience" rather than try to understand the nuts-and-bolts of the real "hows" and "whys" behind the unfolding of history's grand drama.

My Best Regards,

Oz

Rocoteh My Friend,

I'm afraid it will almost certainly follow Civ IV -- look "sexy" (unnecessary 3D graphics, etc.); and appeal to the widest possible audience, also known in English as "the lowest common denominator". This latter is because most gamers (certainly most Americans) are profoundly ignorant of history, and are content to have far more ahistorical elements than either you, I, or most serious modders -- which means coming away from the gaming experience with a highly abstract (and less than accurate) "feel" of having had an "historical experience" rather than try to understand the nuts-and-bolts of the real "hows" and "whys" behind the unfolding of history's grand drama.

My Best Regards,

Oz

ozymandias,

You are probably right.
Furthermore general knowledge on history drops every year in both
US and Europe.

Anyway, hope is the last thing man have..........

Thus one can always hope that the still strong interest for CIV 3
will have some impact on the future.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

Rocoteh, my point is, why worry about what Fireaxis might do for future versions of Civ, when CivIII is, all in all, appreciated by all of us in these forums? We will not influence fireaxis in any way, because after all their decision for a completely new product (as Civ V undoubtedly would be), will be based on cold hard $$$ decisions. Trust me, the marketplace is alot more than just us!

So, let's enjoy our hobby... that's all there is to it.