CONTACT!

We have met a Team Loco warrior named "Alpha Wolf". The discovery was made by our warrior who is moving along the land bridge.

It would be a good idea to get a diplomatic message out before Loco gets the save next.

I'll sent out a diplomatic message.

Hello turnplayer of team Loco,
We have met you during our last turn. We would like to set up friendly contacts with you, but if it's needed, we won't stay peaceful at all.
Do you have a specific team member who we should contact when we want to do diplomacy? If so, please return a pm with his name,
team Innovia

I sent a pm containing this message.

Hey guys, sorry for my absence....or lurking rather. I'm here but really don't have anything to say. Once we get to an area of discussion where I feel like my opinion matters or is any good, then I'll be sure and add them. Pretty much all that has happened so far is just simple basic moves that don't really need guidance. Once we get to the swap the citizen to tile B from tile A so that we get 2 hammers on the third turn, then you can REALLY expect me not to throw in my opinion.

Anywho, I'm all for taking them out as soon as possible....if at all possible.

Team Innovia,
To whom it may concern,

I am currently responsible for communications on behalf of Team Loco.




I eagerly await your reply,
Executive Leader Koondrad,
Team Loco.

So, who's going to be or ambassador?
Mauer, do you want to do it?

Sure, what do I do...lol

We have a foreign affairs minister, who should be making ambassadorial appointments if she returns in time.

Initially the ambassador opens a dialogue with the other team to feel out their diplomatic stance. Dutchfire's note was a bit terse, I would have been a bit more positive for a first contact but wanted to have someone else do it to avoid the one man team syndrome. Others are contributing, don't mean that in a negative way, but the outside world isn't seeing it and they could get the wrong idea if I send both turns and correspondence.

Most of the teams I've participated on in the past have followed a standard of posting a draft note in the forum for the team to discuss or approve before sending it to the other team.

How do we contact them? Here via PM? I too thought it a little...not harsh, but haughty at least. Oh well :) Ought to make for an intersting neighbor anywho.

Anyways, so this would actually be a second emissary visit correct?

*cough* :)

I agree with Dave, posting a draft for everyone to look at before sending is a good idea and how I've done it on previous teams.

I think we should appear to be friendly for now simply to get as much information as possible from them and to have them as a potential for trading in any case.

As foreign minister I'm thinking of resuming communication with Loco to get information if nothing else. Does anyone have anything they want included in the message or anything we should ask them about? I'm thinking of trying to find out their tech plans.

off topic question: Treaties that have to be followed like in the civ3 MTDG aren't around any more right? We just have to trust them?

off topic question: Treaties that have to be followed like in the civ3 MTDG aren't around any more right? We just have to trust them?
Yes, treaties are not binding and we have trust anyone and their reputation to keep the deal.

In the civ3 MTDG it was only binding if both teams agreed that it should be and submitted it to the admins, iirc.

So far people are in favor of Alphabet as our next tech. Why not mention that possability so we can start working out some deals?

Greetings, Loco.

I'm sure both our empires have developed since our last diplomatic encounter. For Innovia's part we may be on the verge of a ground-breaking invention that will allow us to share knowledge with other civilizations.
Each of our civilizations have knowledge that the other don't have. Why not share this knowledge between us so that we may both be richer? While we will be putting our research efforts into making this sort of trading possible, why not collaborate? There's no reason that we both research the same techs when we could be researching different ones and trading, essiensially doubling the research capacity that any of us could have on our own.
I hope you will take our proposal into consideration, and the Innovians are as always open to any other innovative ideas that you might have.

Theoden,
Foreign Minister of Innovia

This is the draft for the message to Loco. Thoughts, comment, additions? :)

I'd change the words invention, and knowledge into Innovation and research into Innovate to keep them :confused:

Staying in character with innovation is cool, so I've changed it a bit, but I've tried not to overdo it. This is the message I sent to Loco:

Greetings, Loco.

I'm sure both our empires have developed since our last diplomatic encounter. For Innovia's part we may be on the verge of a ground-breaking innovation that will allow us to share knowledge with other civilizations.
Each of our civilizations have knowledge that the other don't have. Why not share this knowledge between us so that we may both be richer? While we will be putting our innovative efforts into making this sort of trading possible, why not collaborate? There's no reason that we both innovate the same innovations when we could be innovating different ones and trading, essiensially doubling the innovative capacity that any of us could have on our own.
I hope you will take our proposal into consideration, and the Innovians are as always open to any other innovative ideas that you might have.

Theoden,
Foreign Minister of Innovia

Well I'm glad you didn't over do it.

:goodjob: on the verge of is a bit to much though, we still need a lot of turns.

Reply from Loco:
Greetings Team Innovia

I'm intrigued by this curious concept that you say you are on the verge of realising. My team would certainly like to know more. We ourselves have been innovating and the people of Loco have recently completed a great monument to the powers that are less great, yet much greater, than us. It also serves as a quite functional calendar.

Best Regards
Koondrad
Team Loco.
An interesting and open, though not very informational, reply (we already knew they had the Stonehenge). So what do we say? Should we tell them anything? Or try to make them tell us something (like where in the world we are, since their world map is centered)?

I don't trust them that much actually, let's try to let them make the first step.

They say they are intrigued by the possibility of tech trade and we told them what we are working on but they didn't tell us their project or mention any future trade. Basically they blew us off with that reply.

Proposed reply:
This great monument sounds very interesting to us. You say it functions like a calendar? Then you might even be able to tell us where in this world we are? Our people would surely watch in awe if you were able to point out how we are placed in all this just by looking at this great monument of yours.
With innovative ideas like these you will always manage to please the Innovians. Could it be the case that you know of more wonderful innovations or ground-breaking inventions? The Innovians will always listen to such information and as mentioned earlier we could be interested in any innovations unknown to us.

Theoden,
Foreign Minister of Innovia
A very strong hint that they should reveal information to us before we tell them more. Comments?

Yes, right on.

Message sent. :)

Sent this message to accompany the open borders offer and to try and keep up the relations:
Greetings Loco,

I believe that we have come to the point where establishing trade routes with your people will beneficial for both of us. On behalf of Innovia I therefore offer you open borders so that trade can begin. I also believe this is an important step in the friendly relations that our nations are establishing.

I would also like to ask if you ever received our emmisary who went to your lands a while ago but never returned with a message? Are you still pondering your response?

Theoden,
Foreign Minister of Innovia

Message sent. :)Any response to that one to date?

They seem to be quite slow at responding, more like totally not responding actually.

Well, if they don't respond to the second "reminder" message in due time, then that pretty much signifies that diplomatic relations with them have sort-of come to a standstill...

Any response to that one to date?
Nope, we haven't anything from them in the past two or three weeks. :(

If they don't respond to this reminder either we might have to develop a more aggressive style towards them...

What about asking Aloha how they're getting along with Loco?
Which email are you sending your messages too anyway, the team email?

This thread should be renamed "Loco Communication" -- I had expected the FA to create a new thread. ;)

I'm going to post the following in the Aloha thread too:

Epsilon has the look of a runaway, and we can't tell if they are working with Piffle to achieve that or if they're sitting on some prime real estate and doing it themselves. As we saw in the pitboss, a runaway can grow to the point where a challenge becomes impossible, even for several civs in an alliance. Add on that the apparent pitboss winner DaveMcW is Epsilon's honcho, and it doesn't take much to figure out where this game is going if we don't do something about it.

We need to aim for a 2 or 3 team alliance to challenge Epsilon's growth. We won't be able to do much about the land situation, but a tech alliance can at least keep up so we're not hopelessly outgunned when the time comes. I would like to propose a long-term agreement for non-aggression and planned research to avoid wasting beakers on overlaps. We at least have more than enough land to expand for the forseeable future.

Agree, and our alphabet comes in handy for that.
(We should keep a monopoly on it)

We just received a formal reply from Loco about the open borders:
Greetings Theoden and Team Innovia

We accept your offer of a trade route. Our merchants are already on their way to your lands bringing quality goods at the lowest prices around. We hope that this agreement will lead to a long history of good relations between our countries.

Regards
Koondrad
Team Loco

What about the techtrading? Animal Husbandry for meditation perhaps?

Theoden, can you send them a pm with the Animal Husbandry for Meditation offer?

We have: Animal Husbandry (cost 143)

They have: Meditation (114), Masonry (114), sailing (143)

Lets not ask specifically for Meditation yet and think on our options a little more.

Ask if they want to trade anything? Leaving it up to them to decide, and then we can always deny masonry, because it's to cheap.

No, don't ask them to offer us something, they'll take advantage of that. We should only come to them if we have something in mind for an actual trade that we want, IMHO. ;)

We want Meditation, for lightbulbing by our GP, and for monastries to spread the religion to other civs, and for science bonus.

Meditation is cheaper than AH, so I think they would agree to it. How about:

Hi Loco,

We mentioned some time ago that we were on our way to figure out how to trade techs. Thanks to our innovators that is now possible.
We see that you have meditation. Would perhaps agree to trade it for Animal Husbandry?

325 BC turn 102. We offered Loco clams for corn. We haven't talked to them for awhile so maybe this is a good time to drop them a note.

Offer refused by Loco

Just to make the diplomatic situation more complicated and so much more fun (:p) I just received this from Loco:
Dear Theoden and Team Innovia,

the Locopotamian people have always sought to increase our knowledge of the world around us. We've had many scientists doing just that.

We've heard that your people are similar in this way and so, in the spirit of friendship, we would like to offer you a trade deal.

We would propose that in exchange for 'Code of Laws' and 'Alphabet', we will send you 'Iron Working', 'Monotheism' and 'Monarchy'.

We hope that you will find this generous deal pleasing and that you will join us in trade now and in the future.



Best Regards,

Koondrad
Team Loco
See also the Aloha communications thread.

We are basically offered three techs we'd very much like to get our hands on soon. Is there anything stopping us besides any possible complications with Aloha?

I'm not that impressed with their "generosity". We give them 650 they give us 620. Besides I'd like to give Aloha a chance to trade Iron to us.

Maybe let Loco give us their next tech rather than Iron and do both deals.

Reply from Loco...
Dear Theoden,

we would indeed like to take you up on your offer.

We will send you corn in exchange for clams.




Best Regards,
Koondrad
Team Loco
They seem to be loosening up now and actually want to trade. :)

I was thinking that telling Loco about what we have explored to their west, all the nice resources and a ripe barbarian city controlling the choke point, we can earn their trust and a few brownie points without loosing anything, after all they are building a road westward and will see it soon.

If we give them a heads up maybe they will move on it before Epsilon or at least feel cheated by them if Epsilon takes it first.

Wouldn't they know that spot already?
We could mention it anyway though.

I renamed this thread, got tired of looking inside to see which civ it related to. ;)

The corrupting influence of mod powers begins.

Are communications being kept open? I suspect we're at the stage of the game where any alliances which are going to form will. If it goes anything like some of the pitboss games I've been in, silence can lead to enemies.

Actually we haven't talked to them for a while. They generally haven't been very enthusiastic about negotiations at all, but according Aloha they've been treated the same, so this is probably just due to the incompetence of their foreign ministry...
Keeping communications open is a good idea anyway, though. Do we have some kind of deal we could suggest to them?

I'd like to trade our pig for their gold or we can trade for a health resource if they have one.

I sent the following message to Loco:
Greetings Loco,

We see that you have acquired Theology. Would you be interested in trading this for one or more of our techs (depending on beaker costs)?

We also have some excess pigs running around making trouble in the villages, but we hear that your people are hungry for pork. We would be happy to satisfy their desire for fresh meat in exchange for any other happiness or health resource you have in surplus. What do you say to this generous offer?

Theoden of Innovia

I really want their extra gold, but they wont even talk to us. How about we just give them one of our extra pigs for free and see if that warms them up? We aren't using it and I don't think it helps them too much.

The communication issue probably won't be solved by giving them gifts, I think.

We should try to get at least 1 gpt for it.

Innovians,

Sorry we took so abysmally long to get back to you, our team has been in a state of chaos lately. We perfectly understand if after all this time you have entertained offers from other teams or changed your minds about the trade. I am sending this e-mail in place of our foreign officer, Koondrad, due to the disarray. We would like to offer a trade of Theology for Civil Service and a large sum of gold, determined by yourselves (but approved by us of course).

Jeejeep
Executive Leader
Team Loco


CS is worth 1144, they offer Theo (715) and some gold of which they have 145. Not good enough.

Now if they also offer a gold resource and agree to trade pigs for crabs, wheat or fish then let’s consider it.

- We kind of need the gold to cover our upkeep costs, so basically they could be funding better civics for us while we continue working on our economic development.
- Everybody else has CS so they can’t trade it, but 2 civs still don’t have Theology
- Gold lets us keep growing and the forge in Chowderton makes it double effective for happiness.
- Trading our extra pigs for one of their food has no net effect on them but helps mitigate disease in Ploughland and helps growth there.

I'd say that Theo + 145 gold + goldresource for like 10 or 20 turns is enough. Someone else might trade CS to them, and then we'd have nothing.

I agree with 1889's proposal, it's still in their favour so they ought to accept it.

Better to ask for too much and renegotiate but Lets make some proposal anyway, we've been sitting on this for a while an another turn just came in.

Okay, Theoden will you send it?

Yes, I'll send them an offer tonight.

Proposal sent:
Sorry for our late response, but we had to discuss it thoroughly.

We are very interested in a trade involving Theology. Our proposal is this:

Innovia gives:
Civil Service
Pigs (health resource)

Loco gives:
Theology
145 gold
Gold (happiness resource)
A health resource of your choice

Theoden of Innovia

Any response?

It's in the turn reports. They offered something less in the diplo screen which I refused. I made a simpler deal but they took too long to decide and we got one of the techs from someone else so by the time they accepted it the next turn it was no good for us.

Loco sure lives up to their name with another crazy offer. I sent them this friendly sounding email this time though.

Team Loco,

Your offer of Theology, Gold and 26 gold for Construction and Drama was refused. Please don’t take it personally, we thank you for your offer but negotiating through the F4 screen is just not working out.

Next time we make an offer we will email it to you for consideration and if you do the same our team members will have time to consider and offer their opinions, the Diplo screen is too slow and clumsy for these things.

Also we would prefer to keep techs and resources separate. It is hard to weight the relative costs of such different commodities. You have consistently made offers that equate gold to hundreds of beakers and that is far beyond the value that we place on it.

For the time being please consider this trade. Silks and 30 gold for Gold.

Team Innovia

OK, that's a good way of putting it.

Why the extra 30 gold? Why not just try silk for gold first? ;)

We are more powerful so I don't mind throwing them a bone.

A response Innovians,

Sorry for the inconvenience. After the first offer you made from only the diplo screen, we figured that was how you wanted to do it. Emailing sounds good to us too, and that is how we would usually work. We thought your team might be different.

We understand if you don't want to trade technology for resources. However, it is unlikely we will trade resources for only resources. We don't need more resources, so the trade would have no benefit to us.

Sorry again for the annoyance.

Jeejeep
Executive Leader
Team Loco

Tsk tsk tsk. I guess we'll have to come and take them then.

Mail call:

Innovians,

We have spied fully loaded Innovian galleys coming towards our lands. If you are seeking to war with us, we do not wish you to gain more intelligence. If you are seeking to war with another (unlikely), we will not let you have passage into the lands of our allies.

Be assured that if you declare, we will be ready.


Loco couldn't see it, so Epsilon must have told them.

Here is my suggestion:

What! Have you truly joined an alliance against us? We are shocked by your betrayal, prepare for war.


:lol:

That's actually pretty good for our direct message to them. Going from your suggestion I'm thinking something like:
Since you can't see those troops by yourself and have received the information from a supposed ally we must conclude that there is a conspiracy against us. We are truly shocked by this and we cannot take your betrayal as anything but a declaration of hostility. Prepare for an otherwise avoidable war!

we could ask them to give us gunpowder for peace :p (see aloha conversation)

War declaration sent (with an OOC addition) and official thread opened. :)

Ok, they didn't get the irony...
Innovia,

Please tell us how this war could have been avoided. Were you planning to attack someone else or was that a scouting party? How does cancellation of open borders equate to a declaration of war? Until we hear otherwise from you, we will presume to believe you were planning to attack us (unprovoked) all along. We're looking forward to hearing your reply. If this war could have been deflected before it began, maybe it can still be stopped now.

Jeejeep
Executive Leader

The fact that they didn't get it is almost as funny, to me at least. :D

Still, maybe we should give them a nudge that we're just having them on. Or then again, maybe not. ;)

The fact that they want to end the war means that they see they're going to get hurt.

Dear Innovia

We want to arrange for a peace agreement between our two nations,
this war has gone on for a while now and both sides have suffered losses.
There is no point continuing this war.

We would like to have a peace agreement signed and to restore our relations.
We want to cooperate with you, not fight against you.

Yours sincerely
Joe Harker
Foreign Minister of Loco

In light of the Piffle/Aloha war does anyone feel we need to rethink our strategy?

Yes, definitely, but it may be too late now. Piffle-Epsilon are running away with the world as we speak...

If their offer is good enough, sure take it

What if we ask Loco to declare war on Piffle, and we also declare on Piffle, and we'll attack Piffle with the three of us? (Problem is of course how to get Loco to really get involved).

I'm going to send a quick note telling Loco that we have offered a cease fire and would like to chat.

Dear Locopatamia,

I hope you know this war was started for strategic considerations, not out of malice for Locopatamia. Your brave defense has finally convinced us that our goals are not furthered by war with you. We have offered a cease fire and evacuated our forces to the best of our ability.

With open hands,
Team Innovia

Sent with an OB offer
Dear Locopatamia,

Thank you for accepting the cease fire. I know that we have inflicted great harm on your nation with our foolish invasion and would like to make compensation but even now your nation is wealthier than ours. Still, let us at least try by offering to return the captured worker.

Innovia and Locopatamia have much common ground and a good deal of hope for a bright future if we can manage to combine our strengths.

We are interested in discussing, through chat or email, resource trades, unit swaps, missionary activity and more.

Thank you,
Team Innovia

Sent this to Loco, since they did not send a reply along with their acceptance of the peace treaty:
Dear Loco,

First, let me thank you for your willingness to accept peace. This war no longer serves any purpose for any of us, and so it is good for us to be able to sit down and talk like men of reason.

In fact the current world situation with wars seems to serve Epsilon's purposes the most. If you share this observation with us maybe we could coorperate? Would you care for a chat to discuss any such coorperation?

Yours sincerely
Theoden, Foreign Minister of Innovia

Sorry for pre-empting you Theo, welcome back to the game.

No problem. As I have explained in the absence thread I was on an unplanned vacation, so someone had to handle the foreign affairs in this hectic situation. :)

I can't see your reply in the sent folder, so I assume you didn't send it before I sent mine?

For some reason I am unable to send from our gmail account. Something about my pop-up blocker, even after I turn it off. So I sent it from my home comp.

Well, then they might get a bit confused, but since the essence of the two messages is the same there shouldn't be any problems beside appearing a bit disorganized. :lol:

Response from Loco:
Dear Innovia

We would certainly like to discuss cooperation between our two nation.

We would like to suggest a techology partnership between our nations, the war left us both behind in the tech race
and maybe we can cooperate to correct the situation.


Yours sincerly

Joe Harker
Foreign Minister of Loco

Try getting Gunpowder from them :D

Sent:

Locopatamians,

The worker has been returned. We would like to continue rebuilding our relations by offereing to exchange missionaries. If you agree we will give you two galleys for transport.

In Peace,
Innovia

My proposal for a slightly upset letter to Loco (not yet sent).

Dear Locopatamians,

I know we are responsible for the war so it is understandable if you don’t really care to work closely with us. If not then go in peace, but if you want to try and put together a plan we need to communicate pretty regularly.

Can we send missionaries and would you like two galleys so you can do the same?

Do as we say or suffer,
Innovia

I'd just ask if they have an officer we can chat with, mail like this will just get them angry at us.

I agree with dutch, that's not the way to go forward. How about something like:
Dear Loco,

While it is possible to arrange deals purely through email exchange, we could manage much more if we communicated closer - through chat.

Do you have someone one your team who can handle such a chat? It would me much appreciated. Don't worry about time zones as we should be able to arrange something no matter where the person in question is located.

Best regards,
Innovia

Yes, thats bound to get a better response, but are you sure you can't work "Do as we say or suffer" in there someplace? ;)

Do you seriously think that such an intimidation will make them tremble when we've just retreated after an unsuccesful attempt at conquering them? ;) Or, are you being ironic? (it's too late at night for me to perceive that...)

We didn't retreat, we destroyed B and O. That's enough...for now. :evil:

Theo's message sent.

Sent this also.


Dear Loco,

We've offered pigs for corn this turn. Sorry for the short notice, hopefully we can chat soon and work out some plans.

Your contrite friends,
Innovia

Loco's reply to the chat request. Didn't say who was going to be doing the chatting though.

Hi

A chat would be good for us, I am free at the following times
13/6/07: 9:30-1130GMT
14/6/07:1130-1230
15/6/07: 1030-1230
I am not free over the weekend

Nor their emailadress (:rolleyes: amateurs)

We already missed the 13th but can you or Theo make it Thu or Fri? That's like midnight-2 AM for me.

Chatting, what should I ask?

Say how I can join the Chat.

log in to msn, and I'll add you

Ok thanks, once again I had been logged out without knowing.

Bezig met SE's zegt:
hi
Bezig met SE's zegt:
dutchfire of Team Innovia speaking
Joe zegt:
hi
Bezig met SE's zegt:
how are you doing?
Joe zegt:
alright i think 1889 will be joining us
Bezig met SE's zegt:
I believe he was having some issues with his msn, but if he comes online, I'll add him
Joe zegt:
ok
Bezig met SE's zegt:
I believe you have accepted our resource trade?
Joe zegt:
Yes i think jeejeep accepted it
Joe zegt:
So what do we want to talk about?
Bezig met SE's zegt:
international politics? it looks like epsilon is running away with the game now while piffle and Aloha are fighting it out
Joe zegt:
Ok yes i agree epsilon is running away with the game
Bezig met SE's zegt:
what are we going to do about it?
Bezig met SE's zegt:
we could try to work out some sort of deal between our civs, as alone we won't be able to stand against Epsilon and the other teams
Joe zegt:
ok, how about a tech deal, we will research one set of techs you research the others and we trade them
Bezig met SE's zegt:
that would be great
Bezig met SE's zegt:
which techs are you thinking about?
Joe zegt:
Could we disscuss that later i was in a rush this morning and haven't got the relevant info on our tech progress, from what i know we can research replacable parts,chemistry after two turns
Bezig met SE's zegt:
sure
Joe zegt:
But i think both of us are last in the tech race so this will benefit both of us
Bezig met SE's zegt:
perhaps printing press for astronomy? (i'll look at the beaker costs now)
Joe zegt:
ok loading the game as we speak
Bezig met SE's zegt:
Astronomy is 2000, Printing Press 1600 according to CFC

1889 is aan het gesprek toegevoegd.

Bezig met SE's zegt:
hi
Joe zegt:
hi
Joe zegt:
i am also talking to dutchfire
1889 zegt:
Whew, still got time for this Joe?
Joe zegt:
Yeah i got longer than i had thought
Bezig met SE's zegt:
we were talking about possible tech trades
Joe zegt:
yes
Bezig met SE's zegt:
could you load the game 1889? To check which techs we all have etc.?
Joe zegt:
can you check what techs you have that we don't and vice versa
1889 zegt:
We have optics, astro, military tradition and are starting printing press
1889 zegt:
Loco has gunpowder
Bezig met SE's zegt:
only powder? not Printing Press?
Joe zegt:
do we have nationalism? sorry i can't access the game
Joe zegt:
We should have printing press a
1889 zegt:
we both have nationalism
Joe zegt:
We were reseacrhing replacable parts at one point i swear so we must have printing press
1889 zegt:
Well cool then we can work something out later. can we move on?
Joe zegt:
yeah fine
1889 zegt:
We would like to work out some way to cooperate toward a victory
1889 zegt:
othre wize piffle and epsilon have us both beat
Joe zegt:
Ok,
1889 zegt:
unfortunaltly there is no real way to sdo so
Joe zegt:
are you preparing to invade epsilon at some point?
1889 zegt:
unless we work together but decide wihich of us will win
1889 zegt:
such as un or tech partnering for space race
1889 zegt:
Invade Epsilon - No
Joe zegt:
We are happy to have a tech partnerships
1889 zegt:
Well thats great but no interest in UN then?
Joe zegt:
The problem with the UN is it might bring up unpredictable results, also the other teams will proberly abstrain
Joe zegt:
Although it might be worth going for it to control its usage
Bezig met SE's zegt:
I doubt UN will work actually
Bezig met SE's zegt:
we'd need 3 or 4 teams voting together
1889 zegt:
so its space race then, we can't conquer or dominate
Joe zegt:
space race is best for us
Bezig met SE's zegt:
we'd need to stop epsilon from achieving it though
1889 zegt:
how about letting missionaries into eachother cities?
Joe zegt:
we don't have the miltary to win wars
Joe zegt:
We don't have open borders, well we do but we are not allowed to send units though their land
1889 zegt:
we can spread our religions to eachother, a few more gold won't hurt
Joe zegt:
How about a spying campaign, taking out key resources to slow them down, risky though
Bezig met SE's zegt:
and spies come quite late
Bezig met SE's zegt:
but together we could have 6 spies in their territory, allowing for a lot of sabotage
1889 zegt:
sabotage costs money too right?
Joe zegt:
Excalty although i would expect they would know who had done it if the spies got caught
Joe zegt:
sabotage of improvment dosen't does it
1889 zegt:
i'll look it up in a minute. gotta feed the baby.
1889 zegt:
ya kinda expensive too, like 200 gold to blow up a plantation
Joe zegt:
really that much!!!!
Bezig met SE's zegt:
200? are you sure about that?
Bezig met SE's zegt:
at what settings was that (game speed)
Joe zegt:
I have to go in 15 minutes so if we run out of time we could arrange another time.
1889 zegt:
price probably varies but thats what it asked me for that game
Joe zegt:
ok so how else can we slow epsilon down
Bezig met SE's zegt:
not trading with them?
Joe zegt:
might help!
1889 zegt:
now i gotta change her diaper, i'll email you about those techs but do you want a couple galleys anyway?
Joe zegt:
yes please how much?
1889 zegt:
dutch can name the price or we can work it out later
Joe zegt:
ok
1889 zegt:
good chatting joe, lets stay in touch
1889 zegt:
thanks for the help dutch
Joe zegt:
ok nice talking to you!
1889 zegt:
soo long all
Joe zegt:
bye
Bezig met SE's zegt:
bye
Joe zegt:
How much do you want for the galleys?
Bezig met SE's zegt:
I don't know actually, they're 50 hammers, so probably less than that in gold
Joe zegt:
ok how about 20/30 each?
Bezig met SE's zegt:
(wait, what speed are we playing this at? Normal or Epic?)
Bezig met SE's zegt:
sounds reasonable
Joe zegt:
shall we say 25 each, i don't know how much gold we have so i we consult jeejeep on when we can buy them, might be a while.
Bezig met SE's zegt:
and I'll consult 1889 on when we can deliver them, I don't know where they are now
Bezig met SE's zegt:
how many would you want?

1889 heeft het gesprek verlaten.

Joe zegt:
we start with one and see how many we need, we might have to pay per turn.
Bezig met SE's zegt:
okay
Bezig met SE's zegt:
anything else we need to discuss?
Joe zegt:
no and i need to go
Bezig met SE's zegt:
okay
Joe zegt:
see u later
Bezig met SE's zegt:
well bye then , I hope to talk to you later again
Joe zegt:
ok bye

Chat, now back to learning for my Computer Science exam :sad:

Sorry I couldn't be there for the chat because messenger simply refuses to log on now, but you guys handled it well. :)

Maybe we should try to involve Aloha as well to try to make a three team alliance instead of us trying to work out two different alliances?

I would like to trade printing (2280) and gun (1710) from Loco for astro (2860) and optics (858) which is only about 270 points in our favor. We can balance with two free galleys and carry the difference over to our next trdae deal. We should also let them know that we have started Edu.

What do you say?

Sounds like a very good deal. I'd say the galleys would be worth about 70 research so we can give them the galleys and say we owe them 200 research. I have a hard time seeing how they would decline that offer except for the case that they're about to trade for the same techs from someone else, which should be unlikely.

Could you send them a message with this offer Theo?

Yes .

Edit: message sent:
Dear Loco,

We would like to suggest a tech trade for our mutual benefit: We'll give astronomy (2860 beakers) and optics (858 beakers) in exchange for printing press (2280 beakers) and gunpowder (1710 beakers). Granted, this is 270 beakers in our favour, so maybe we could gift you the two galleys we spoke of earlier in exchange for 70 beakers (remember that beakers is worth less than gold so this would equal about 40-50 gold)? This way we will be owing you 200 beakers that we'll give back in a later tech trade.

What say you? This trade would surely help both of us.

Theoden,
Foreign Minister of Innovia

What say you?

This might just be me, but isn't it "What do you say" in proper English?
Anyway, the message looks good.

Not sure, I think you are correct that in modern-day English it would be considered incorrect. It's probably more old-english as I borrowed the phrase from Aragron in LotR where he makes his proposal to king of the dead, but it just sounded so epic I had to include it. :p

Just caught Joe online, they're probably going to accept the deal.

Looks like they just got Optics on their own so now we have Astro (2860) and Military tradition (2860), they have Gunpowder (1716) and P Press (2288).

Sent to Loco:

Hello Locopataimia,

We have offered Astronomy for Printing Press, a deal 600 beakers in your favor. While we hope for the opportunity to balance the scales in future trades, in the mean time we would like to make up part of the difference in resources. 80 turns of resource trades would entirely cover it, and we can already make use of your spare deer.

We look forward to hearing from you on other ways in which we can help each other such as coordinating research efforts and the pending galley sale.

So long,
Team Innovia

I think we should send a note thanking Loco for accepting our tech and resource deal and to make sure they all know that we gave them a free galley.

I'd also like to try setting up a future tech trade. We get edu in 7 but what are they working on.

Proposed message:

Dear Joe and Locopatamians,

We accomplished much in our last chat and look forward to our next chance to speak with you again. In the mean time we would like you to consider the potential for future tech trades. We currently have Military Tradition and will soon have Education. Hopefully we can work out some trade with your current research or Gunpowder.

We await your reply,
1889 and Innovia.


Again I used my name but feel free to volunteer yourself as ambasador. I think this message should be sent to Team Loco and to Joe Harker's personal mail.

emailed to Joe and Loco.

- zegt:
hi
Joe zegt:
hi
- zegt:
how are things?
Joe zegt:
alright, got a bit of a cold
- zegt:
cold? it's june
Joe zegt:
I know, only i could get a cold in June
- zegt:
did you get 1889's message?
Joe zegt:
Yes and i replied
- zegt:
I'll take a look at our gmail
Joe zegt:
We are researching constitution
- zegt:
good choice
- zegt:
are you sure you replied? there's nothing in our gmail account
Joe zegt:
I might of sent it to 1889 directly rather than though your teams gmail
Joe zegt:
i will check now
- zegt:
okay
Joe zegt:
sent to you
Joe zegt:
did you get it?
- zegt:
yep
Joe zegt:
Does it sound alright?
- zegt:
yeah it does
Joe zegt:
Also, as i wrote in the email, i am drawing up a tch plan beginning from the industrial age, so far i have got
Joe zegt:
Loco researches Scienfic Method, Physics Electricity, and railroad
- zegt:
are we going to trade as soon as possible?
Joe zegt:
Yes
Joe zegt:
Innovia reasearches Steam power Steel Arty and Assmebly line, this means Loco researches more beakers to make up for the loss in this trade
- zegt:
sounds great
Joe zegt:
And then we can plan our way though the modern age
Joe zegt:
Also i left out combustion, but one team could research that while the other researches rockerty
- zegt:
btw did I miss replaceable parts?
Joe zegt:
yes, have you got replacable parts
- zegt:
no, we don't have it at the moment IIRC
Joe zegt:
shall we research chemistry for it?
- zegt:
how does that change the amount of beakers for each team?
Joe zegt:
they are exactly the same cost, although we will have to research engineering as well
- zegt:
we need chemistry for steel anyway
Joe zegt:
or trade for it with another team
Joe zegt:
So we will finish constitution then research engineering and chemistry and you research education and replacable parts
Joe zegt:
Also someone needs to research rifling as well
- zegt:
back to the drawing board
Joe zegt:
Well the lost beakers could be gain in the modern era!
Joe zegt:
In fact if the person who researches combustion also does rifling and the other team researches rockerty than the beakers are roughly the same
- zegt:
is that with the beaker difference in the education-mil trad-gunpowder-constitution deal included?
Joe zegt:
Yes because we will research more beakers during the industrial age
- zegt:
okay
Joe zegt:
Right i am going to do the numbers (this is the par where it all goes wrong!)
- zegt:
lol
Joe zegt:
Loco does 29172 beakers
Joe zegt:
Innovia do 29458 beakers
- zegt:
that's awfully close
Joe zegt:
There has to be a hitch somewhere!
- zegt:
so to sum it all up:
Joe zegt:
Hang on those didn't include the combustion+rifling for rockerty. If loco researched rockerty then the figure stands at
- zegt:
we give you military tradition now and education when we'll get it, and you'll give us gunpowder now and constitution when you'll finish it
Joe zegt:
okay
- zegt:
Then later on, you research Scientific Method, Physics, Electricity, and Railroad, Engineering, Chemistry
Joe zegt:
Loco 37752 Innovia 36608 + we need to research ecomnics plus corpoations, if you did corpoartions sinces it more expensive
Joe zegt:
Okay
- zegt:
And we research Steam power, Steel, Arty, Replaceable Parts and Assmebly line
Joe zegt:
Yep!
Joe zegt:
And any beaker differences we will make up in the modern age, i think loco researches about 800 beakers more.
- zegt:
and we've still got Rifling, Economics, Corporation, combustion and rocketry
Joe zegt:
Loco does economics
- zegt:
so we'll do Rifling, Corporation and Combustion? and you'll also take rocketry?
Joe zegt:
yep
Joe zegt:
I will send the final plan in an email
- zegt:
okay, I'll let someone do the maths to see if it's correct
Joe zegt:
Okay, i have proberly missed something so the more checks the better!

Chat... ..

Dear 1889 and Innovians

The trades sounds good, we are researching constitution in 9 turns, will be less because we are saving up gold at the moment
If we did a straight swap, education, miltary tradition for constitution and gunpowder, it would leave Loco with a 858 beaker advantage over you, this could be made up in later trades or in a payment of gold.

Also I am drawing up a possible tech plan starting from the industrial age to help achieve a techological advantage over the other teams.

Hope to hear from you soon

Joe Harker
Foreign Minister of Loco

And

Right here are the details of the tech plan, as disscussed with dutchfire

Loco
Researches and trades but not nessarcy in this order
Gunpowder
Constitution
Economics
Chemistry (engineering as well since we might be getting this in a trade)
Scienfic Method
Physics
Electrcity
Railroad
Rockerty

Innovia
Miltary Tradition
Education
Replacable Parts
Rifling
Corpoation
Steam Power
Steel
Artillery
Amessmbly Line
Combustion.

I think that is it and the costs are Loco: 38424 beakers Innovia:40326 although this can be made up for in the modern era.

Joe Harker
Foreign Minister of Loco

In our Gmail

Good work and it seems like a decent plan. I think we should go for it.

I agree I like that tech plan it should give us a chance to make this game difficult for Epsilon and Piffle

Ya, I concure.

Sent to Loco:
Breaking News

Our caravel has been exploring the Epsilon coast. 11 tiles west of Delhi is a town called Sunrise Citadel. Garrisoned in the city are 5 catapults, 3 cavalry a galley and a galleon, clearly an invasion force. We are making preparations and urge you to do likewise.

Take care,
Team Innovia

And here is their reply:

Thanks for the notice, our miltary has been sent to the north and west coasts of our empire, please keep us updated

All the best
Joe Harker

Edu was sent to Loco this turn. Here is a propopsed message to go along with:
Good News,

We just figgered out sumthin called Ed-u-ca-shun. We dun sent it t' y'all. So you kin get some book lernin' like we gots. What'cha lernin' on right now?

So long cusin

Brilliant :) that message makes me very happy

I dun sent it.

Here is their reply:
obviously you haven't mastered it yet!
I think we still researching constitution, should be ready in 2 or so turns.
jeejeeps back so we are sharing the role of turnplayer.

See ya
Joe

Proposed message to Loco:
Dear Loco,

I’m not sure how familiar you are with Epsilon’s East coast, but we have been keeping a pretty close eye on developments there and wonder if you would like to update your maps.

Team Innovia


Also they should have Constitution any turn now.

edit: SENT

Loco finished constitution on the interturn if I'm reading the diplo screens correctly.

To Loco:

Dear Loco,
How are things in Locopotamia? We noticed you've finished Constitution, great work. We would appreciate it if you'd go for Chemistry next, because it's a crucial defensive tech, as it gives grenadiers and frigates. Maybe you could try to get engineering from Aloha to speed things up.

Also, we haven't seen any Epsilonian galleons on the oceans yet, have you seen them? Any information on their whereabouts would be great.

Yours,
dutchfire
Team Innovia

Hi Innovia

We will give you constitution next turn, if we can't research chemistry, we will research Scienfic Method, because we have a Great Scientist waiting to research some of it anyway.

We have yet to see any galleons yet, however, soon we will get one of our galleys near our west coast to do some scouting

Yours,
Joe

In our inbox

Sent to Loco:

Hello Locopatamia,

Congrats on Constitution, we will have Replicable parts in 3 turns and are working with Aloha to get Engineering. I want to let you know that in a recent chat about that trade they mentioned they also have a scientist and are planning to study Scientific Method so if you have already begun that project would you please coordinate with them. Scientists are handy for other stuff too or you can just hold on to him for a few turns. We are really cutting through the tech tree now so the next tech for him to lightbulb shouldn't be far off.

Cheers,
Innovia

three way tech alliance chat:

- zegt:
hi
Joe zegt:
hi
- zegt:
how are things in Loco land?
Joe zegt:
alright, just about to play the save
- zegt:
okay
- zegt:
are you going to send Constitution now? (or has it already been sent?)
Joe zegt:
been sent i think
- zegt:

- zegt:
what are you researching now by the way?
Joe zegt:
just checking now...
- zegt:
because Aloha is going to do Scientific Method, we'll probably be able to get it from them
Joe zegt:
We are researching part of SM with a great scientist
- zegt:
they are doing that too
- zegt:
it would be great if you could go for Chemistry first
Joe zegt:
ah. ok we will do chemistry.
- zegt:
could we draw up a three-way-tech-alliance?
Joe zegt:
thats a good idea, there is a slight problem on how to organise it
- zegt:
yeah, we'd need to have an alohan too
Joe zegt:
You have got constitution from us
- zegt:

Joe zegt:
engineering we hope to get it from aloha as part of a previous deal, and then we will start chemistry.
- zegt:
okay
- zegt:
I believe we'll get replaceable parts in about 3 turns
Joe zegt:
yes i saw it in our inbox,
- zegt:
okay
- zegt:
I think we're starting Rifling next
Joe zegt:
Ok i can't remeber what we have to do after chemistry, but we work that out when we get to it.
- zegt:
perhaps physics?

joe32320@hotmail.com heeft je een buzzer gestuurd!

Joe zegt:
Hope your TC goes better than mine, it seems like it's haunting me at the moment!
- zegt:
lol, you didn't do too bad
Joe zegt:
Physics will be fine
Joe zegt:
oh well, i just have to take what comes and hope for the best!
- zegt:
I see that donsig is still rambling about the TC though
Joe zegt:
Yes thats whats worries me, plus, this latest one has come 9 days after the TC so it looks like to me he went out of his way to find something wrong, of course i could be wrong!
- zegt:
well, donsig has been moaning for ages, about everything basically
Joe zegt:
He would make a good opposition party leader though!
- zegt:
it looks like Vassalage is winning
Joe zegt:
I know, would have prefered Bureacy to it, the warlord better make use of it!
- zegt:
which lacross matches today?
Joe zegt:
Both!
- zegt:
is my team playing?
Joe zegt:
Yes, against my team, i will do it first
Joe zegt:
1st playoff: UTD get possession but miss
Joe zegt:
2nd playoff: UTD get possession and score
Joe zegt:
3rd playoff: DABEST get possession and score! 1-1
Joe zegt:
4th playoff: DABEST get possession but miss!
Joe zegt:
5th playoff: UTD get possession and score! 2-1
Joe zegt:
6th Playoff: DABEST get possession but miss
Joe zegt:
7th playoff: UTD get possession but miss
Joe zegt:
8th playoff: DABEST get possession and score! 2-2
- zegt:
woot!
Joe zegt:
9th playoff: DABEST get possession but miss!
- zegt:
drumroll.............
Joe zegt:
10th playoff: UTD get possession but miss!
Joe zegt:
2-2 final score, now what
Joe zegt:
have a replay at a later date?
- zegt:
I dunno
- zegt:
these are the playoffs, aren't they?
Joe zegt:
yes
Joe zegt:
shall we consult the managers?
- zegt:
yeah, I suppose that's best
Joe zegt:
ok i put a message in with the scores
- zegt:
you could also pm Ice2k4 and George as they don't seem to visit the forums frequently
Joe zegt:
Yeah will do.
Joe zegt:
I will do the second matches now,
Joe zegt:
Do you want to listen in?
- zegt:
sure
Joe zegt:
1st playoff: FBHS get possession and score 1-0
Joe zegt:
2nd playoff: GD get possession but miss
Joe zegt:
3rd playoff: FHBS get possession and score! 2-0
Joe zegt:
4th playoff: FHBS get possession but miss
Joe zegt:
5th playoff: FHBS get possession but miss
Joe zegt:
6th playoff: GD get possession and score! 2-1
Joe zegt:
7th playoff: GD get possession and score! 2-2
Joe zegt:
8th playoff: FHBS get possession and score! 3-2
Joe zegt:
9th playoff: GD get possession but miss!
Joe zegt:
10th playoff GD get possession but miss
Joe zegt:
Final score FHBS 3-2 GD
- zegt:
not another tie
Joe zegt:
that would have been interesting!.....
Joe zegt:
sent messages to George and ice
Joe zegt:
Is BTS out in the Netherlands yet?
- zegt:
not as far as I know
Joe zegt:
Just asking, seems weird that australia should get it first!
- zegt:
it is weir
- zegt:
d
- zegt:
doesn't matter to me that much anyway though, I'll have the TC tomorrow, the new Harry Potter saturday and I'll be starting work on monday, so I've got enough on my hands
Joe zegt:
Well it comes out tormorrow and it's my last day of college, so perfect timing for me,
- zegt:
bclg100 should be online now, (he's on CFC)
Joe zegt:
ok, should one of us send him a pm?
- zegt:
already done
Joe zegt:
right i will just get civ 4 up and take a look
Joe zegt:
any luck?

Simon is aan het gesprek toegevoegd.

- zegt:
he'll be here to chat in about 5 minutes
- zegt:
joe, do you have a proposal for techs?
Joe zegt:
not quite yet, i am resending the save to piffle, hasn't worked agained
- zegt:
current deal is: Loco: Scientific Method, Physics, Electricity, and Railroad, Engineering, Chemistry, Rocketry, Economics
Innovia: Steam power, Steel, Arty, Replaceable Parts and Assmebly line, Rifling, Corporation and Combustion
Joe zegt:
Right i am back
- zegt:
if Aloha does Scientific Method, Engineering, Assembly Line, Steel, Economics, how would the beakers be divided then?
Joe zegt:
hang on, each team would have to research 26312 beakers to reach the modern age (excluding techs should as medicine and so forth)
- zegt:
any luck dividing these techs between the teams?
Joe zegt:
hang on
Simon zegt:
hey
- zegt:
hey
Simon zegt:
sorry was seeing if there was anything for food
Simon zegt:
there wasnt
- zegt:
lol
Joe zegt:
hi
Simon zegt:
so whats up guys? joe= joe harker?
- zegt:
yep
- zegt:
he's trying to think up a tech plan
Simon zegt:
well first things that spring to mind is that teams should research what piffle/epsilon have done first
Simon zegt:
replaceable parts etc
- zegt:
we're doing replaceable parts atm
- zegt:
other important techs are chemistry, rifling, scientific method...
Joe zegt:
got it!!!!
- zegt:
great, show us
Simon zegt:
i doubt epsilon will be in too much of a hurry for sci meth
Joe zegt:
just a minute let me write it out neatly!
Joe zegt:
If aloha take Ecomonics, Corpoartion Assmebly line, Rockerty Scienfic M and Rifling, then i think that works out roughly the same
Joe zegt:
Can you check you get around 23000 beakers each for your teams?
Joe zegt:
Loco has 22594
- zegt:
Loco: Physics, Electricity, Railroad, Chemistry, Economics
Innovia: Steam power, Steel, Artillery, Replaceable Parts Combustion
Aloha: Economics, Corporation, Assembly Line, Rocketry, Scientific Method, Rifling
Joe zegt:
Hang on we will research rifling instead of aloha
Simon zegt:
is anyone researching democracy?
- zegt:
Loco: Physics, Electricity, Railroad, Chemistry, Economics, Rifling
Innovia: Steam power, Steel, Artillery, Replaceable Parts Combustion
Aloha: Economics, Corporation, Assembly Line, Rocketry, Scientific Method
- zegt:
not at the moment
Simon zegt:
that should be an essential tech
Joe zegt:
aloha has 22022, loco has 24590
Simon zegt:
i appreciate it isnt needed as such but cottage growth plus negatives of emancipation
- zegt:
sure
- zegt:
and biology? that's definetly a nice tech to have too
Simon zegt:
biology is required for space so should definatly throw that in
- zegt:
if we throw in Biology, Democracy and Industrialism, one tech/team, would the beakers still roughly match?
Joe zegt:
inoovia has 19448, ok innovia gets rifling and researches 22880 beakers, loco 21158 and aloha gets 22022 beakers
- zegt:
@bclg, this is just the techs until the modern age, not until the end
- zegt:
Loco: Physics, Electricity, Railroad, Chemistry, Economics
Innovia: Steam power, Steel, Artillery, Replaceable Parts Combustion, Rifling
Aloha: Economics, Corporation, Assembly Line, Rocketry, Scientific Method
Simon zegt:
yeah i assumed as much
Joe zegt:
that sounds about right
Simon zegt:
but i would like to point out that we're not going to be researching anything else again anytime soon
Simon zegt:
not by choice of course
Joe zegt:
have you got engineering?
- zegt:
you'll be doing Scientific method first, aren't you?
Simon zegt:
yeah we got engineering the turn before
Simon zegt:
and we can get halfway to sci meth with our GS
Joe zegt:
We also used a GS on SM!
Simon zegt:
we havent actually used it yet
Simon zegt:
so if you want to continue on it by all means go for it
Simon zegt:
and we'll save it for the next tec
- zegt:
that's physics
Joe zegt:
don't worry you go for it, we need to research chemistry, which is why i asked you about engineering, if you catch my drift
Simon zegt:
yeah but we can always research chem- you've wasted a lot of beakers otherwise
Simon zegt:
or innovia could research chem or something it seems stupid to waste so many beakers like this
Joe zegt:
actually hang on, we haven't used it, jeejeep just moved it when he last played
- zegt:
okay, great
Joe zegt:
So you go for SM
Simon zegt:
oh ok we'll go for it then
- zegt:
okay
- zegt:
and we should probably all gift each other all techs as soon as possible
Joe zegt:
yes of course!
Joe zegt:
are we all happy?
- zegt:
I am
- zegt:
by the way, what are we going to do with divine right?
Joe zegt:
do we need to research it?
- zegt:
Aloha already has it AFAIK
Joe zegt:
Ok
- zegt:
but it's not really that usefull
Simon zegt:
about the tech gifting thing
Simon zegt:
i think we should only gift each other tech that epsilon/piffle have already unless we actually need it urgently
Simon zegt:
no point in making it cheaper for them
Simon zegt:
other than that im happy
- zegt:
that's true, but most techs will give us immediate benefits
Joe zegt:
Exactly
Simon zegt:
not really
Simon zegt:
for instance how many of you will be switching to representation straight away? (loco have rep)
- zegt:
I think it's generally best to send a message to eachother with the estimated time of completion for the current tech a few turns before completing it, to discuss the moment of gifting
- zegt:
I think we will actually, though I'm not sure
Joe zegt:
Ok i agree
Simon zegt:
sci meth- sure it shows oil but that's not going to help you so we could just tell you two where it is
Simon zegt:
not that we're trying to keep the tech but giving it to each of us straight away only makes it cheaper for the other two
Joe zegt:
Also it means that we have to stay neck and neck with epsilon/piffle
Simon zegt:
well it means that they wont be able to see how far ahead we are
Simon zegt:
economics etc we can trade instantly for the gnp bonus and things but should try and keep the trading to a minimum to lessen the tech costs
Simon zegt:
but if both teams think that we should trade instantly aloha will do so
- zegt:
no, I agree that we should keep it down as much as possible
Joe zegt:
I would prefer to gift straight away, although maybe with some techs that don't give an immediate bonus we could wait
Joe zegt:
actually yeah, wait until one of the other teams gets it
Joe zegt:
Ok then, is that it?
Simon zegt:
so these are the techs?
Simon zegt:
Loco: Physics, Electricity, Railroad, Chemistry, Economics
Innovia: Steam power, Steel, Artillery, Replaceable Parts Combustion, Rifling
Aloha: Economics, Corporation, Assembly Line, Rocketry, Scientific Method
Joe zegt:
yes
Simon zegt:
to point out the obvious then, if we're not trading immediatly that should be altered slightly
Simon zegt:
f'rinstance, maybe aloha should grab physics seeing as sci meth is a pre req
Joe zegt:
that might be a problem...
Simon zegt:
also two people are researching economics
Joe zegt:
oh that was a typo
- zegt:
lol, back to the drawing board

Joe zegt:
noooooooooooooo
Simon zegt:
further, loco will probably finish chem before innovia finish replaceable parts and combustion and before we finish sci meth
Simon zegt:
what will they research in that time?
Simon zegt:
demo?
Joe zegt:
how about we stick with the current, especially since esplion is quite far ahead and won't know now far behind we are
Simon zegt:
im quite happy too but the second point really needs to be sorted out
Joe zegt:
whats the second point again, just so i don't answer the wrong question!
- zegt:
well, we could run 0% for some time to stack up gold, if it's really a problem, and then go 100% later
Joe zegt:
Or we could srcap the idea of doing the same amount of beakers and just decide what tech to do next when it comes to it
Simon zegt:
no the tech plan thing works well
Simon zegt:
i think we should stick with it
- zegt:
me too
Simon zegt:
just alterations as we go will probably needed
Simon zegt:
this works for time being im just thinking 20 turns ahead etc
- zegt:
as allways
Joe zegt:
ok thats fine, just putting an alternative in
Joe zegt:
I will need to go shortly
Simon zegt:
well aloha would be more happier just searching everything when we get it, our tech pace wont be setting the world alight
Joe zegt:
well if there are any problems let us know about it and we will work to get around the problem!
Joe zegt:
Right are we ok?
- zegt:
yeah, I am
Simon zegt:
yep think we are
Joe zegt:
Ok then, nice meeting you both today, i have now got to go and take the cat to the vets! bye!
Simon zegt:
cyas later joe
- zegt:
bye

Warning sent to Loco:

Hello Locopatamia,

Our Caravel has spotted a Galleon on its way to Epsilon's southern city - Dune. They may be planning to launch the invasion from there. We are sailing in for a closer look.

We'll be in touch,
Innovia.

Reply recieved from Loco:

Thanks for the warning, we have a galley to upgrade so we will be keeping a watch too.

Thanks again
Joe.

Sent to Loco:
We'll have an extra silk net turn if you want it, could we get gold for it?

Innovia.

Little misunderstanding:
Hi

We are interested by the deal.
How much gold are you asking for?

Joe.


and my reply

Just one. I meant ther resource. :)

If they can't swing it then per turn gold will be alright with me.

Sent to Loco:
It looks like Epsilons' forces will come from Dune. We can see: 3 galleons, 5 cannon, 3 grenadeirs, 1 mace, 2 cats.

Also they just got Scientific Method and Piffle just got Rifling. We'll have it in 4 more turns.

Good luck.
Innovia

From Loco:
Innovia,

Yes we can see 2 galleons, who i suspect are going to Reading.

They have also got 5-6 cavalry units

Is there any chance that you could declare war, or provide any assisstance. (gold to upgrade units to rifles, stuff like that)

Thanks
Joe

What to do? We are currently trading silk to Epsilon for whale. Other than that a war declaration means very little, still I'd rather not do it if we don't need to.

The most helpful thing we could do would be to try and sink some galleons.

What do you think of this proposal:
Dear Loco,

Your call for aid has been well received. We are about to complete a galleon and we will send it south with 4 cavalry, more will probably follow. It looks like 7 turns, but I’ll be able to provide a more accurate ETA next turn.

In the mean time we were interested if you had plans for the stone resource? We are considering building Oxford.

All for one and all that,
Team Innovia

Don't mention the stone until we're about to actually start Oxfords, so we don't get it too early.

I think we need to strike them when the time is right, when the other side is at its most vulnerable, and we are capable of saving our ally.

We surely needs to hit Epsilon in 5-15 turns, as I see it.

Removed stone reference and sent.

Sent to Loco:

Hi Joe and Locopataimians,

Okay, so there is no short cut for galleys, so we'll be sailing out of Port Tropicana in 5 turns. Might have as many as 3 galleons full. We are still planning what to send and how best to use them. One thing we are wondering is about the galley we gave you. If you think you will need it then please use as you see fit, but if it doesn't any any missions lined up how long would it take to get it back to us? Not sure we could fill 4 galleons but maybe.

We'd also like at least 1 frigate to protect our fleet, how much longer for chem?

Good luck at Mycenia,
1889 and Team innovia

Some good news and some bad.
Innovia,

After playing the ave, your galley is nowhere to be found. I'm afraid it may have been killed, as there is an Epsilonian frigate in the area. This frigate is lurking near new B&O and may be tough for your galleons to get around. You probably need to either bring a frigate with your or try some kind of evasive action.

Jeejeep

Make sure we do not invade without an escort. We need to build as much as we can for that invasion force until then.

Sent to Loco.

Team Loco,

We were planning to land an invasion force near Dune, but finally decided that it would be imposable with Epsilon sailing ships up and down our coast. Until we find an opportunity for something bigger we are planning on sailing our galleons along the East coast from Port Tropicana and gift units to you. What type of units do you think would be most helpful to you right now?

Your Ally,
Innovia

Sent to Loco:


We have just delivered 3 highly experienced cavalry regiments. We'll return with more in a few turns and try to get some Grenadeirs to you.

Also we'll finish Steel in about 4 and move on to Steam Power. Aloha will finish Scientific Method about the same time. How much longer for your research?

Toooooooooooooo Loco:
We finish Steel next turn and will send it the turn after that. What are you researching and how much longer will it take?

Team Innovia

They saaaay:
Dear Innovia



Sorry for the long period of no contact, it's been such a long time since the game has been moving.



We are researching Eccomnics although at a very slow pace, I don't know for sure, but with science at 0 it takes 134 turns, however i am going to ask Chamnix to get the tech rate up again so i will give the real time it will take next turn.



On the war, we are down to three cities, two of which we know Epsilon know about and one that is concealed at the moment, we are hoping to use this as our base for the future of Loco, providing they don't find it! We are very grateful for the support you have given us, however it seems like the nation of Loco will never come back from this loss.



It may be worthwhile to pay them to finish economics. It depends on how much research they have already completed. Should we suggest this option to them?

Sure, try to get the most out of them.

By the way, you might mention that they're always welcome to live in Innovian lands, might their empire die.

This is just a suggested reply, please provide your feedback.

EDIT: sent 12/11

Thanks Joe,

We wonder if you would be willing to tell us how long Economics would take at 100% and how much of a deficit would that create per turn. If you are far enough along maybe Innovia could provide the funds for you to finish you research.

Aside from that is their any other assistance we could provide? Epsilon’s war machine is probably moving too fast for us to send troops, but we can try to send a galleon if you are interested in evacuating refugees.

Should you fall we will rename one of our own cities Locopatamia so that the glory of your deeds will live on to inspire future generations.

Your allies,
Innovia

Yes, by all means go for it. They say they have a hidden refugee city, and if Epsilon can't find them, the chances of our investment in their research being completely lost are low.
Besides, as they have no chance of winning at all, they will spend all resources to annoy Epsilon as much as possible from now on, which is good for us. People who have nothing to lose are the most dangerous and couragous. :)

Dear Innovia

We have one city left which epsilon can't see and which i am not sure has sea access (the city is Madras) so evacuating refugees is going to be very hard without alerting Epsilon to our position. On the science front, forget us, we won't be researching anything fast so if you need economics then i would research yourselves because we will be taking an age over it. (it would have taken 43 turns at the highest science possible with three cities so with only one city it will probably take approx 100 turns at best!)

We would like to offer you our world map, since we won't be needing it for much longer and might help you in any future war with epsilon.

One last thing. What would be your position on a Loco retirement, we only have one city and I don't want to force Chanmix to carry on playing for an essentially dead nation. We could offer you our maps, money and units and offer Epsilon the last city.

Thanks for all your help.
Joe Harker
Caretaker Dictator of Loco


and
Hi again

Chanmix has just played the save and Epsilon can see our borders. I have instructed him to give you our treasury and maps next turn.

Farewell from the Land of Loco
Joe Harker
Dictator on the run!


and my proposed reply for coment:

Sad news. Your map and gold will be welcomed.
I think the issue of retirment was raised a few months ago in the main forum and I don't think anybody had a problem with it. I certainly don't.

Also Team Innovia extends an unconditional welcome to any Loco members who wish to continue the MTDG afterward.

Your Allies,
Team Innovia

EDIT: sent 12/21

I agree with the proposed message.

I don't understand the point of the message from "Karhu", though. :confused:

That was high level secret diplo from an alternate universe. Somewhere in time Raja 1889 of the Mediocre Indian Empire orders his head of security to be...to be...more careful.

It's sad to see our former victim go, but there was hardly another option for them.

That was high level secret diplo from an alternate universe. Somewhere in time Raja 1889 of the Mediocre Indian Empire orders his head of security to be...to be...more careful.
Ahh... why didn't I figure that out? :mischief:

It makes a lot more sense after edit. There is nothing we can do except accepting their gold and let them seek refuge in our team, though.

Responsefication:

Hi

I think we have approx 5 turns before they get to us, so we will play until the end.

Thanks for your offer to reside in Innovia once the war is over and i will join once the war is over, although getting to your lands is another challenge!

Joe Harker
Team Loco