View Full Version : Predeteremined battle outcomes


ahenobarb
Mar 08, 2002, 11:35 AM
I noticed that all the battles in Civ III seem to have predetermined outcomes!

What does that mean? Try this:

Save the game during a battle

Load the saved game

Play a turn and engage in a battle with your opponent

Look at the results: (hypothetical) unit x was killed, unit y has only two HPs left, opponent a has only 1 HP, opponent b is dead.

Now load the game again and replay the turn.

The result is exactly the same!!


I suppose this is supposed to prevent someone from restarting the game if they didn't like how their last turn went, but how can you compare the performance of new units if the battles always end the same?

I thought probability was supposed to be at work?

eyrei
Mar 08, 2002, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by ahenobarb

I suppose this is supposed to prevent someone from restarting the game if they didn't like how their last turn went, but how can you compare the performance of new units if the battles always end the same?



You answered your own question.;)

Parmenion
Mar 08, 2002, 11:46 AM
Probability is at work, the Randon Number Generator creates so many thousand numbers at one go and then stores them for use when it needs a number at random, so in the case of a battle that you constantly reload, the result will always be the same. however, try reloading and then doing something else that requires the RNG to work and then fight your battle. For example, try to cross a section of ocean with a galley, or enter into negotiations with an opponent. This will utilise the number in the RNG that you were accessing in your battle. Then when you go to the battle I think you will see a different outcome.


Anyway, what are you doing reloading after a battle? Did the outcome not suit you? Did the nasty Indians beat up your innocent, rampaging Hoplites?

ahenobarb
Mar 08, 2002, 12:15 PM
The purpose is to compare whether a new unit is performing as it should in the game and rather than constantly restarting a new game, looking around for an opponent, building the unit, marching it over to the opponent and attacking the opponent and watching to see how it performed ... Then restarting another new game and repeating the steps, it takes less time to save it before the battle and then go at the battle again (or so I thought), but apparantly its a useless pursuit. I guess you have to use excel files (Gee, what fun :( )

And just to jump on your sword, who cares if someone restarts because their turn sucked. To walk away from blame, I don't do this because I don't really care enough to cheat. But if someone does, what is their moral obligation here? Unless they're playing the GOTM they're only cheating themselves.:p

Parmenion
Mar 08, 2002, 12:38 PM
Sorry mate, I didn't mean to hit a nerve, I was just winding you up.
To be honest I reload lots of times, particularly if I get an outrageous demand from a neighbour and suspect there may be war.
I have altered the course of an important battle aswell, by saving and reloading just before the battle, then getting an unimportant, outdated unit I have to attack the opponent somewhere else. This unit gets predictably hammered, then I go back to my original battle and the RNG has moved on to a new sequence of numbers which hopefully are more favourble.
I'm not boasting of my Civ tactical prowess by saying this, just agreeing that reloading isn't necessarily wrong because we all do it. Sometimes it feels good to have outwitted that hunk of unintelligent machinery which has caused so much frustration previously.....
Humans: 1 - Machines: 0

(Then they start manufacturing Terminators....)

ahenobarb
Mar 08, 2002, 02:47 PM
It wasn't really a nerve, but when I posted this observation, I figured that would be the first response that came up. :lol:

I only replay a turn if something is astondingly unfair. My rule of thumb is if was some afterthought fight that doesn't really affect the turn. Like sailing past a trireme with a destroyer and getting your destroyer clobbered or something (no matter how fast they row, a trireme can't breach a destroyer hull).

Someone had a great post somewhere (here or Apolyton) that an underlying problem with Civ in general is the concept of Progress. Everything improves, the only set back you get in the game is military. Without them its always bigger, better, faster, more.

Thanks for the tip about the RND generator, I was starting to get worried that the computer had already determined each turn before i played it!