Download (http://www.jan.vandercrabben.name/tam/?page_id=2) at the TAM Website.

Great! But wait, what's actually new in there? :)

Nothing, we just incrimented the number :)

I know of the following changes:

Reduce War Weariness (especially when winning)
More AI tweaks (little changes)

Check the homepage of the TAM website. :)

The game seems to crash after I build the Tower of Babel...

Is the "Standard" size map 1.95 supposed to be of size "Huge" ?

I don't really like playing on Huge maps, so I'm being more or less forced to play on the 1.94 map to get a Standard sized map..

Other than this, it seems to be working just fine so far. (Except for the fact that we had a thunderstorm with the obligatory power brownout while I was playing) I also built the Tower of Babel without any problems in my game, as a comment to the comment above.

Actually - relay that comment - the game DOES crash when I build the Tower of Babel...

I originally intended to make this post an expanding post where I posted any errors I found regarding the Tower of Babel bug - but it would seem that I fixed it entirely by just correcting a minor spelling error. I had no idea Civilization 4 was THIS strict in regards to a spelling error about something that relates to the art of an icon!

Anyways, here's the fix :

Mods/The Ancient Mediterranean/Assets/XML/Buildings/Civ4BuildingInfos.xml
Line # 10122

<ArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_BUILDING_GREAT_ZIGURRAT</ArtDefineTag>


Change to :


<ArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_BUILDING_GREAT_ZIGGURAT</ArtDefineTag>


Oh, and, Thamis, this also fixes your listed "Known Issue" on the TAM main webpage where you have listed this :

- Tower of Babel does not show up in pedia or as icon (WTF?)

Everything works as it should and is just perfect with that little spelling error corrected.

This sounds stupid, and i probably miss something obvious, but i can't find where to download the mod in the Download section of the website, and has 1.95 been posted on Planert Civ? Anyhelp would be appreciated, great Mod.
thanks

nvrmnd, got it to work. i feel stupid.

The Normal sized Mediterranean map appears to have been replaced with the huge sized map.

The small mediterranean map has a forest in the water right next to rome.

"- Updated peltast graphic, this one supposedly doesn’t cause crashes"

It still crashes when a peltast moves visible to the player. :/

Cham

Thanks for the feedback. I'll post a small update later today when I get back home.

Ok, I uploaded version 1.951, which fixes the Tower of Babel, gives you back the normal sized map, and slightly improves AI build choices.

I tried the peltast, and it works perfectly fine for me. Make sure you delete your old TAM folder before installing the new TAM version. If the peltast still crashes, please let me know.

Thamis, I was recently approached to do English voiceovers for machinima (video movies with voice actors) dealing with World of Warcraft and Planetside.

This got me thinking that if you need someone to read the tech quotes (in English), I could very well be your man.

Hey cool, I was thinking of doing them myself. But I haven't done it yet because (a) I haven't got a good microphone and (b) I am not a native English speaker and speak a mix of American and British with a very slight German accent. ;)

So, yea, that'd be cool. The first thing to do would be to read out the "You have discovered Bronze Working" stuff. Then the qoutes are the next step.

I tried the peltast, and it works perfectly fine for me. Make sure you delete your old TAM folder before installing the new TAM version. If the peltast still crashes, please let me know.

Well the old peltast worked perfectly for you too, but it still crashes for me. I even redownloaded 1.94 to confirm that you put a new model in. The file sizes are different so it appears to be so. Also I noticed in addition to the maliskirmisher.nif you use for the peltast, there is a maliskirmisher_fx.nif in the same folder that is identical to the first, except it is 3 bytes longer. Comparing the files revealed that the filename was apart of the file, thus accounting for the extra 3 bytes, and every other byte was the same.

My testing for the peltast involves entering world builder, spawning a peltast, exiting world builder, and then trying to move it. It then crashes with the bad memory allocation.

I really don't know anything about the graphics formats used for civ 4 models, but it seems weird to me that this new peltast uses the old kfm (key frame) file from the model it was apparently derived from.


<NIF>Art/Units/peltast/maliskirmisher.nif</NIF>
<KFM>Art/Units/Unique/Mali/Skirmisher/MaliSkirmisher.kfm</KFM>
<SHADERNIF>Art/Units/peltast/maliskirmisher.nif</SHADERNIF>


I know a lot of people have trouble following basic installation instructions, but I am not one of those people. So worry not. :)

Cham

Are you using single unit graphics by any chance? Also, if you're up for a bit of testing make sure the unit is properly defined in the formations file. I'm at work so I can't send you exact instructions just some off-the-wall ideas. Unfortunately, it works fine for me and always has.

I'm using the mutli unit graphics. I tried running it with single unit graphics, and it still crashed under the same conditions. I looked through the CIV4FormationInfos.xml. Everywhere UNIT_JAVELINEER is, UNIT_PELTAST is also there. Since the Javelineer works for me, and with respect to this file, the Javelineer and Peltast are identical here, I don't see any problems here.

Cham

I was playing your new version, and i have found a bug that almost every mod have been getting. I was playing the small size version of your TAM sanerio and gave everyone a accurate religion (Christanity for Rome, Olymapic Gods for Acennians (damn long names), ect). Somehow, my religion (animalim), and other religion holy citys are being removed and no longer a holy city, this happen to me three times when i have to use the world builder to see if everyone have there holy city, I have to give back my holy city 3 times, and i quit cause i want to post this error i been having. I have not been having warnings or anything else like that, but i think it's the spreading issue, that somehow mine and the person that i spread got both of there holy city removed. Please fix this error cause i don't like doing this everytime it happens.

> - Barbarians should also spawn Biremes in the water, but half as many
> per tile as with land units
iUnownedWaterTilesPerBarbarianUnit got changed for all levels except Monarch.

Well, I'm crashing at a certain turn now. Can't continue my game. I love wasting two hours. I'm playing as Rome on the Marathon huge map. Here is my save game. Please tell me how to fix it. http://home.mchsi.com/~mithaniel/TAMRome.Civ4SavedGame

I was playing your new version, and i have found a bug that almost every mod have been getting. I was playing the small size version of your TAM sanerio and gave everyone a accurate religion (Christanity for Rome, Olymapic Gods for Acennians (damn long names), ect). Somehow, my religion (animalim), and other religion holy citys are being removed and no longer a holy city, this happen to me three times when i have to use the world builder to see if everyone have there holy city, I have to give back my holy city 3 times, and i quit cause i want to post this error i been having. I have not been having warnings or anything else like that, but i think it's the spreading issue, that somehow mine and the person that i spread got both of there holy city removed. Please fix this error cause i don't like doing this everytime it happens.

Hmm... we have changed the way the holy city works (it doesn't give any more gold), is that what you're referring to?

We didn't change anything how the placement works, I have no idea why it's being removed. Are you sure this doesn't happen in the normal game, too?

Hmm... we have changed the way the holy city works (it doesn't give any more gold), is that what you're referring to?

We didn't change anything how the placement works, I have no idea why it's being removed. Are you sure this doesn't happen in the normal game, too?

He's having the same problem in Sevo's mod too, from what he's said, I think he has other stuff installed. No one else has reported any issues with this.

Cham

Carthage is very slow... I'm not sure if this is historically accurate or not, but I've found that expansion seems slow, especially given all the Barbarians.

I would like to see some better production potential in the capital, but I'm not sure that's the whole problem.

Sorry, I just don't have problems with any other civ.

My main "complaint" with the mod is the abundance of Great Engineers, and the almost inevitable strategy that comes with it. Rushing wonders gets all the fun out of building them. Plus I always end up building the same ones (ex: The Sphinx). Maybe if you lower significantly the production bonus it would be ok. Is there a way to give a bonus based on a % of the production? Ex: Giving half the production required by a building (instead of a given value that would still be too high at the start of the game, while useless since too low at the end of the game). Great Merchants may also be a bit too strong...

Also with the last versions, the lack of tech trading seems to disavantage the AI a lot near the end of the game.

With that being said, I still having a lot of fun with the mod,

thanks again :goodjob:

Well, I'm crashing at a certain turn now. Here is my save game. http://home.mchsi.com/~mithaniel/TAMRome.Civ4SavedGame I was able to Enter through a couple of turns without crashing. Sorry, good luck...

(minor) Bug report :
When you find Tribal Laws, game proposes Council of Elder saying it gives +2 exp per unit.

(minor) Bug report :
When you find Tribal Laws, game proposes Council of Elder saying it gives +2 exp per unit.

I've noticed this also.

P.S. Carthage isn't slow...I just needed to change my strategy.

P.P.S. My current game is around 800BC. I'm in the lead, followed by Rome, Greece, Egypt, and Phoenecia. (All the rest are not doing so well)

P.P.P.S. Thamis is also correct about being able to cruise through the terretorial waters of other civs.

I'm finding the other Civs way to unwilling to trade. Only one civ will have open borders with me; none will trade technologies with me. The open borders thing is, perhaps, the biggest problem because it means that a whole strategy for generating commerce is removed (port cities, harbors, great lighthouse, etc).

It is actually quite strange for me to play with any tech trading (which is how it is now). I have to really re-think my strategy...

I assume that this is a side-effect of making the AI more aggressive, which is definitely a good thing. Is there any way to make the AI become aggressive when the opportunity arises or towards a select few Civs, but more friendly otherwise?

-- Hypnotoad

I fixed my earlier problem (updated to 1.951, tower of babel was built). So far I love the mod almost as much as the Civ3 version. I can definitely tell it is incomplete, but its still awesome. I guess I'll post my nitpicks in this thread. I definitely can't wait for the Warlods version of TAM. I think heroes are kind of a silly unit, and would be better integrated as a warlord. Plus, you have new music for leaders (like Carthage and Celtic).

- I do not know the history of Mycenae. Did they use primarily chariots? I saw they had a UU hoplite. I had a war party heading into Agamemnon's territory, and the first city I saw had so many chariots and chariot archers that it couldn't list them all. I didn't have a hope in hell of assaulting it, so I found a hill outside the city and camped it. Marcus (one of my spearmen), eventually got 130 exp from the seemingly infinite Mycenean chariots. Are they supposed to have so many, especially for a greek civilization?

- Northern barbarians (gaul, germany, britons) really suck because I don't think the AI knows to get the technology to chop trees, which they desperately need for growing cities. As a result, they grow extremely slowly. I know they were a primitive people, but it really makes them chopped liver ingame. I think in my game, at 200AD they have about 400 points while everyone else has 800+.

- Carthage has a city that is a long string of captial letters, probably XML related.

- I enjoy being a powerful Rome, and being able to demand money from weaker civilizations. This feels right, and is awesome.

Chode:

It is not possible to control which civ builds what units. Their UU is a hoplite, but for some reason the AI decided to build chariots. We need to tone down the chariot archers, anyway.

The northern barbarians are supposed to be highly disadvantaged.

I'll look into Carthage. Which city was it?

I'll look into Carthage. Which city was it?

Its Hadrumentum AFAIK. It once has been fixed but the bug came back again...

Bug report : chariot receive metal promotion (from Smithy)

That should be correct, if it's the normal chariot. Just the archers shouldn't get it.

I have a game as Carthage at the moment...don't recall having the issue with Hadrumentum. I will check when I get back home.

P.S. I peacefully settled both sides of Cicily and the only thing stopping me from the other two islands off Italy's western coast is my darn economy, lol...But, then again, I have managed to colonize almost all the way down to the wine resource far to the South West of Carthago...

Hmm... we have changed the way the holy city works (it doesn't give any more gold), is that what you're referring to?

We didn't change anything how the placement works, I have no idea why it's being removed. Are you sure this doesn't happen in the normal game, too?

This brings up a suggestion. Could we increase the gold slightly from the holy cities? We went from gobs of gold to almost nothing. There should be a middle ground here, perhaps make it equal to the size of the holy city? This would at least grant a reflection of the tourist dolars and influence of the holy city. As it is now, I typically forgo founding religions...

My two ingots.

Pardon my ignorance. Feel like an idiot. But how do I install the mod? I've downloaded it. It's in my install files folder. I click on it. Extract it to Civilization IV, Mods folder. But it stays as an exe. and won't come up as a mod. Any help would be much appreciated.

You run the EXE file (double click it) and then you select the installation folder, which is your MAIN CIV4 folder, and NOT the mods folder.

If you use a Mac, you have to download the ZIP file which is also on our download page.

This brings up a suggestion. Could we increase the gold slightly from the holy cities? We went from gobs of gold to almost nothing. There should be a middle ground here, perhaps make it equal to the size of the holy city? This would at least grant a reflection of the tourist dolars and influence of the holy city. As it is now, I typically forgo founding religions...

My two ingots.

We're actually thinking of scrapping religions altogether and rename them to Cultures, which will then allow special buildings and units for each culture.

Oh. Thanks very much, Thamis.

My savegame is crashing again. I definitely have the latest version. Marathon, huge map, playing as Rome. Once I hit end turn, I get an error within Civ4 saying memory allocation error - bad allocation, and it quits. My computer is powerful, with an Athlon X2 4200+, Ati X1900XTX, Windows XP, and 2 GB of ram. It can't be performance related, can it?

Savegame http://home.mchsi.com/~mithaniel/TAMRome.Civ4SavedGame

edit I've just tried lowing my settings to the lowest, changing my virtual memory, and changing a few settings in the civ4 config file. No change at all.
edit2 I guess I give up. TAM is so much more interesting on a huge map but apparantly no one knows the solution. Has anyone ever finished a huge marathon game? I cant play TAM anymore.

Could it be that you've got a Dacian Peltast entering your screen the turn it crashes? We've had many reports of that crashing.

Here is a modified CIV4UnitInfos.xml (http://www.janvdc.plus.com/peltast-fix/CIV4UnitInfos.zip) file, which you have to place into Civilization 4\Mods\The Ancient Mediterranean\Assets\XML\Units and overwrite the old file. It basically removes the Peltast graphic.

Yes I think that is it. I am at war with Dacia.

I reloaded a savegame about 10 turns earlier, and the crash didn't happen. I've now wiped out Dacia and I haven't crashed since. Thanks for the help thamis.

Would someone mind trying this save? Just load it and press Enter to end the turn. For me it crashes to Windows with no message. I don't think I've ever had TAM crash before, except possibly: I might have had problems with the Peltast - IIRC the problem was that I couldn't play Dacia without a crash, but I could watch AI Peltasts walk around with no problem. I'm using 1.951 and tried thamis's CIV4UnitInfos.xml, but still got the crash. Tower of Babel has already been built. I don't know whether there are any lurking Peltasts in this save.

I'm not at home right now until monday, so I can't try it out. If nobody else tried it by monday, I'll have a look. :)

135425
Jet, I've got your saved game one turn further on above. I don't think it was a peltast crashing the game as that seems to end with a memory allocation error. On playing the first time I heard the sound of someone declaring war just before the crash. On closer inspection of the map I decided it was probably the Lydians who had a couple of troop laden galleys just outside of Sicilian waters so to prevent the crash I declared war on them. Hope you don't mind:D

p.s I sunk a couple of Lydian biremes & a galley in my service to the glorious Carthagian Empire

Get this person an elephant! Trying it from my own save, declaring on Lydia worked around the problem for me, too. The crash must be a secret Lydian doomsday weapon.

So Alekhine, did you get the crash, too?

That reminds me. With boats now able to pass through your waters you have to be alert, as Admiral Alekhine was in this case! But in this case Lydia were still outside my borders when they declared war. Will the AI now declare when they have ships already inside your borders? I guess in most cases it doesn't matter, since ships can move farther than your cultural boundaries will extend.

Well Thamis, they caught onto the new wonder, the Crashes of Kroissos... have to try something new so they stop destroying the poor Lydians. :)

Get this person an elephant!

Woohoo! I think I'll call him Stampy and march him to Trebia. I've heard there's some fun to be had up there:)

So... any ideas what causes the crash now?

I built the genius of archimedes yesterday and noticed that it gives no gp points, is this intentional?

Uhmmm... no. ;)

Is war weariness implimented in game, or does Rome never get WW? I have been at war for hundreds of turns now, and no one is complaining about it. It makes the Empire civic rather useless. In fact, many of the civics aren't very useful.

Concerning the Holy Empire, its a cool concept. I hope more interesting choices are added (how about being able to force christianity on the mediterranean instead of free religion?). Right now, it is pretty worthless because since all the AIs are annoyed with you and each other no one ever gets voted in.

Hi,

1. tried to play a multiplayer game (hotseat) with the normal sized map with version 1.951. I started by double-clicking on the map file and then "go back" to multiplayer > hotseat, but there was only to choose between "New Game" and "Load Game", there was no "load scenario". Did I something wrong? I remember there were comments for the earlier versions and looked them up, but they didn't work.:confused:

2. Probably already commented on, but the Goths have when meeting them no greeting but a long key, something like AI_DIPLO...., same with city Ostrogoth (TEXT_KEY_....).

Thanks a lot,

Waterloo

I could be nice to put off the acute accent in Vercingétorix, the saved games might be not easy to reload this way (you can by double clicking on the saved file in explorer, but you cannot within the game).

And i guess most accent in french did not exist in this era, since many appeared much later.

Is war weariness implimented in game, or does Rome never get WW? I have been at war for hundreds of turns now, and no one is complaining about it. It makes the Empire civic rather useless. In fact, many of the civics aren't very useful.

Concerning the Holy Empire, its a cool concept. I hope more interesting choices are added (how about being able to force christianity on the mediterranean instead of free religion?). Right now, it is pretty worthless because since all the AIs are annoyed with you and each other no one ever gets voted in.

Yes, there is War Weariness, but we've modified it. Have you really got no war weariness at all?

Also: Are you winning or losing the wars? Because, if you're winning, you hardly get any war weariness, but if you're losing, it skyrockets. At least that's how I designed it.

Hi,

1. tried to play a multiplayer game (hotseat) with the normal sized map with version 1.951. I started by double-clicking on the map file and then "go back" to multiplayer > hotseat, but there was only to choose between "New Game" and "Load Game", there was no "load scenario". Did I something wrong? I remember there were comments for the earlier versions and looked them up, but they didn't work.:confused:

2. Probably already commented on, but the Goths have when meeting them no greeting but a long key, something like AI_DIPLO...., same with city Ostrogoth (TEXT_KEY_....).

Thanks a lot,

Waterloo

I haven't got CIV here... can't tell you. We can fix the AI_DIPLo and TXT_KEY though. Just not any time soon (at least from my side), because I'm ultra-busy.

Also: Are you winning or losing the wars?
What do you mean by "winning" or "loosing" ? Capturing / loosing cities ?

@chode : you should have strong war weariness if you have captured cities from a foe you are at war with. It's the only situation in wich i had war weariness, and it was strong.

Winning and losing is defined as the ratio between how many units you kill and how many units you lose, as well as how many cities you conquer and how many cities you lose.

You lose happiness for every unit you lose, you gain happiness (but slightly less) for every unit you kill.

I just noticed there is a sea unit unable to cross borders : the fishing boat.

(and thx for explanation)

That's on purpose. I don't want fishing boats being mis-used for exploration... I knew that's what you wanted to do, cheater! ;)

That's on purpose. I don't want fishing boats being mis-used for exploration... I knew that's what you wanted to do, cheater! ;)

Thamis,

Good point. Is it possible to allow fishing boats to ignore cultural boundaries once the tech for bireme is discovered?

Regards

I knew that's what you wanted to do, cheater! ;)
tssk tssk, i prefer merchant boat, it moves much faster. And well... we know the map :p
Sapon's proposal could solve this.

Shouldn't most of the civics come earlier? The game is nearly over when I research Ius Civile or vice royalty.

Yea, I'm looking into reworking the civics... Just haven't got any time right now, probably until the end of the month. :(

Hehe...I can almost see the huge map and the normal map with my eyes shut now...don't need no stinkin' exploration! But, yes, I send out my Carthaginian galleys ASAP :)

I echo comments concerning the civics, they do seem to come rather late, but there do seem to be plenty of buildings to ease the pain.

Hehe...I can almost see the huge map and the normal map with my eyes shut now...don't need no stinkin' exploration! But, yes, I send out my Carthaginian galleys ASAP :)

I echo comments concerning the civics, they do seem to come rather late, but there do seem to be plenty of buildings to ease the pain.
Too bad this game does not really lend itself to multi-player because I would love play against you guys. It was tried in CIV III; but the results were less than satisfying. Would it not be great to exploit the tendencies of a human opponent like sticking a couple of fleets of triremes and transports loaded to bear up Carthages aft end as the focus is upon exploration to the north and west...."Pharoah rejoiced at the destruction of his hated rival to the west". All in the spirit of good fun. :mischief: :lol: :mischief: :lol:

I've played The Ancient Medit agaisnt a friend, it's possible, we should set a day & time & play for some hours, & continue next week, ad infinitum:lol:

I'm actually posting a thread now.

Thamis, since you mentioned reworking the civics... here are some of my thoughts. Does slavery really need to be a civic? Slavery was a pretty much universally accepted practive by most all of the major ancient civ's represented in the game. Maybe it should be an early tech that allows production to be rushed using population and one of the civics could remove the unhappiness penalty like a reworked "Representation".

I think there should be some distinction between representation and city states. My understanding was that while the Greeks developed the idea of the "Polis", city states were also a feature of the Phoenecians only without representation. Perhaps "Confederation" would be a better civic description. The Romans had representation through the senate (as corupt as it might have been) even after the fall of the Republic. Maybe a civic called "Citizenship" could be used to reflect both Greek and Roman politics and allow for drafting units or remove limits on drafting.

Now my breif thoughts on how religious civics should work.
Paganism- no upkeep and no benifts from buildings.
Organized Religion- medium upkeep and building benfits, no spread of non-state religions.
Theocracy- high upkeep (to maintain preistly class) and unit experience (holy warrior effect) as well as building benifits, no spread of non-state religions.
Free Religion- (really religious tollerance) low upkeep and building benfits, other religions allowed to spread.

Good ideas on the civics.

Oh, and yes, I don't see why TAM3 or TAM4 aren't MP-playable? I've done it,

Just wanted to add my two cents here I find that TAM very playable multiplayer and have been playing this mod exclusively with 2 friends for some months now we simply cannot go back to the original game. We are playing a huge map now in version 1.94 (still haven’t finished it yet) and all the modes of multi work no problem. The only issue that this mod has with multi player is some Civ are inherently stronger then others, Rome for example, as long as everyone playing is aware of it no problem.

But with version 1.94 anyways the multi player game improved dramatically. Because of the challenge people have trading with the AI and lower cost for city maintance. We are looking forward to finishing this version 1.94 so we can finally move on to 1.95. Hopefully tonight they will capitulate to Carthage :lol: .

On a side note does anyone know if you can continue a game from a prior version with a new version? 1.94 to 1.95 in this case?

Edited for massive and glaring spelling errors

I just wanted to add my two cents here i find that TAM very playable multiplayer and have been playing this mod excluslvly with 2 friends for some months now we simply cannot go back to the original game. We are playing a huge map now in version 1.94 (still havent finished it yet) and all the modes of multi work no problem. The only issue that this mod has with multi player is some Civ are inhernatly stronger then others, Rome for example, as long as everyone playing is aware of it no problem.

But with version 1.94 anyways the multi player game improved dramitacly. because of the challange people have trading with the AI and lower cost for citie maintance. We are looking forward to finnishing this version 1.94 so we can finally move on to 1.95. Hopefully tonight they will capilulate to Carthage :lol: .

on a side note does anyone know if you can continue a game from a prior version with a new version. 1.94 to 1.95 in this case?

First off, LONG LIVE CARTHAGE (albeit none of that nasty child sacrifice, ok?) Glad to see someone else gutting Rome :)

Secondly, 1.95 is not compatible with 1.94, so I'd suggest finishing your game first.

Too bad this game does not really lend itself to multi-player because I would love play against you guys. It was tried in CIV III; but the results were less than satisfying. Would it not be great to exploit the tendencies of a human opponent like sticking a couple of fleets of triremes and transports loaded to bear up Carthages aft end as the focus is upon exploration to the north and west...."Pharoah rejoiced at the destruction of his hated rival to the west". All in the spirit of good fun. :mischief: :lol: :mischief: :lol:

Sir, I'm sure you'd be as rutheless with Egypt as I am with the Hittites...who I would play by the way :) Carthage is just more challenging than Greece, Rome, the Hittites or Egypt, but you still have a chance :) I even conquered the world once with Phoenecia, lol, albeit on the normal map.

Carthage has allot to defend, many vulnerabilities, but thankfully, the AI doesn't know that yet :) Oh, and on the huge map, Tartessos doesn't exist.

I'd love to get into an MP game :) But Ank...if you're playing Egypt, then I can't let you live unless someone of similar capability and knowledge is playing...say Persia? Let Shqype play his blessed Illyrians, lol :)

Humans are so dastardly on this game.

Strange I have always considered Carthage an easier Civ to play as you primary fight barbarians over and over and over again. I think next I will try Babylon they look damn tough.

Babylon on huge I have yet to try. Carthage is easy if you just want to sit there. Expanding out becomes a challenge, considering the exhorbitant maintenance costs, and Rome and Greece and Egypt. Heck, huge is easier than the normal map by far.

Some specific feedbacks :
- french translation : "entairement ceremonial" should be written "Enterrement Cérémonial", "Scépultures" should be written "Sépultures", the carthage lancer uu does not have any name (blank name). If there is an easy way to have an eye on all the french translations, i'm ok to do it.

The following about huge med map :
- northern "barbarian" civs : decebal, parpatua and budica seems ok to me. But Vercingetorix and Arminius and totally surrounded by dense forrest, not allowing any development, even slow, they are always ways behind. More normal forest in these lands could help in having a little more challenging ennemies. I know it is intended, but this is imo exagerated.
- horses : many in scythia and iberia, none in france/italy/africa. Several civs have saddleback or special horse-using uu without any horses in the land they can grab.
- Viriato : agricultural civ with so few 5 food tiles seems strange to me. Either it would seem more appropriated to allow them more 5 food tiles, or changing agricultural for something else should help them, his civ trait is nearly useless.

- - - (current discussion, not global feedback)
About Carthage strenght and weakness : in my point of view Carthage is very strong, but you have to build a real army as moving troops is costly, the "guerilla style" is not adapted for Carthage. I love playing Carthage, but just consider that when you go at war, it's for crushing a civ, with a whole army. Not just plundering or taking just 1/2 cities, it's really costly. Egypt and Nubia a not pro-military civs, so it's easy conquest. Rome is pretty nice since close to the capitol, but you need sea domination for that. Iberia depends a lot upon Viriato's developement. For me, Carthage is the easiest after Rome. Nubia is quite strong also, because they got pretty uu, nice civ traits and an easy conquest with terrific lands with Egypt. The only bad thing is not having horses (sounds strange since white horses are known from north african lands) while being saddleback.
And last, but not least : elephant rocks :)

Sir, I'm sure you'd be as rutheless with Egypt as I am with the Hittites...who I would play by the way :) Carthage is just more challenging than Greece, Rome, the Hittites or Egypt, but you still have a chance :) I even conquered the world once with Phoenecia, lol, albeit on the normal map.

Carthage has allot to defend, many vulnerabilities, but thankfully, the AI doesn't know that yet :) Oh, and on the huge map, Tartessos doesn't exist.

I'd love to get into an MP game :) But Ank...if you're playing Egypt, then I can't let you live unless someone of similar capability and knowledge is playing...say Persia? Let Shqype play his blessed Illyrians, lol :)

Humans are so dastardly on this game.
You may survive as my vassal...only if you give up all of that nasty child sacrifice thing of yours and come to pay homage to Pharoah so that he can enlighten you onto the worship of the one god...the Aten. With you and your Libyan barbarians...my Nubian vassals to the south...the worship of the Aten will spread to the frozen lands of the barbarians to the north. As for the Asiatics -Hittites, Persians, Babylonians etc...you know who you are...woe and destruction upon thee. No quarter shall be asked...and none shall be given. MUHAHAHA....MUHAHAHA....there stands Pharoah triumphant over his enemies.:lol: :lol: :lol:

Bug: Tartessia doesn't get free beakers toward a religion-founding tech.

Unlike other wonders the Illyrian Citadel is destroyed if captured (iConquestProb = 0).

Unlike other wonders the Illyrian Citadel is destroyed if captured (iConquestProb = 0).
That is something that I noticed also; once I capture the city that had it, I then check the wonder listing and it is no longer there.

I've noticed that when I cannot always cead a city to another Civ, is this normal?

Thinking about the +100 Culture Tech....

I think it would be nice if it was something associated with Greece's golden age. After all, there was a huge cultural flowering then (much more so than with Rome's civil laws). The problem with connecting it to City-states is that then you could get it way too early on with Sphinx. One option would be some sort of democracy civic. I would suggest that it be at least medium upkeep, if not high, so that there is a real cost and question whether to go for the +100 Civic.

Similarly, I think it would be nice either to scrap Plutocracy or beef it up a bit. Right now Aristocracy is the only thing that makes much sense. I like real choices.

-- Hypnotoad

So I just finished an incredible game as the Nubians on the Huge map playing as Immortal. Wow, this was probably the hardest game of Civ I've ever played (where I didn't feel like I had simply screwed up somehow and so restarted the game). I was going for a cultural victory -- and got one in 472 AD -- with 78 turns left. Normally I finish at least a couple of hundred years early.

So probably the main difficulty was how hard it is to trade. I found the best way to do it was to go to war when an AI asks you. Then he will open his borders and every once in a while, occasionally, trade resources or, even more rarely, some techs. Not trading techs, of course, made it much more difficult. I researched the final tech about 5 turns before the game ended. I was on 10% research at that point -- I probably could have been done 40 turns earlier if I wanted (but then the cultural victory would have been later).

I javalineer rushed the Egyptians and then used Thebes as one of my three cultural capitals. I haven't been able to succeed on Immortal in 1.95, yet, without rushing a neighbor.

My only other really serious war was with the Romans. They sneaked attacked me in Libya, razing one city. I was technologically superior, ended up pushing them back and eventually taking Sicily, my only territory outside of Africa or Saudi Arabia. The wine there ended up really helping.

That's about it. I'm really liking this build. It is incredibly hard, but I like a good challenge. I'm thinking about maybe trying a religious tech route next time. Or (shock!) my first conquest victory...

-- HT

Hey, that sounds like an amazing game. Can you post the savegame?

I'd be happy to post the save game, but I'm not entirely sure how. If I try to add an attachment to my post, it says the save-game size limit is 500K. My game is around 1.3 MB.

Also, what is normal to post? The final turn before victory so all you have to do is hit "enter" to see the victory movie?

I'd be happy to post the save game, but I'm not entirely sure how. If I try to add an attachment to my post, it says the save-game size limit is 500K. My game is around 1.3 MB.Can you put it in a zip file?

Here is a collection of bugs/oddities collected during various 1.95 games.

General gameplay issues:

If a unit or stack stumbles upon the square an enemy sapper is sitting invisible, the unit(s) get thrown back one square during the sapper's move.
The concept of a spy-sapper unit is not a good one anyway in my opinion, since its only useful for exploring rival territory (or exploiting the bug explained above). I vote to remove it.

The alliances tech does not work, its not possible to offer defensive pacts at all, even if both civs have it.

Increasing the caravan house gold to three seems to be too powerful; its now possible to have research/culture at 100% and still make profit, especially with colossus and great lighthouse.

For the same reason i suggest to decrease the effect of vice royality civic, decreasing distance maintenance by 75% seems to be enough, otherwise the public court is useless in the late game.

I suggest either to remove the artist from garden or one of the theatre ones, otherwise your automated cities produce more artists than everything else. Especially on huge maps its tiresome to manually manage your cities, especially in mid to late game.

Fire catapults are way too powerful! I suggest to triple or even quadruple the building costs and double the costs of normal catapults, and/or reduce the combat stats. (Example: fire catapult: Strength 4, +50% city attack, 80% withdrawal, -50% vs. archery units)

Map:
The fertile crescent map (huge) should have some ocean between europe and northern africa, otherwise that area spawns so many barbarian biremes which makes it impossible for any AI nation to build up naval force in the early game (with the exception of greece).


Otherwise, i want to state that your mod is the only reason for me to play civ4 now and then! Keep up the good work!