Welcome to the C-IV SGOTM 02 Maintenance thread. The purpose of this thread is to give you somewhere to post about non-spoiler issues relating to the game. It is a way of communicating to the rest of the players outside your team, and with the staff about matters that affect your team or everyone. You can post about bugs, rule clarifications, problems with the roster etc. Please subscribe to it so that you are kept up to date with new information as the game proceeds.

The team lists are in the second post in this thread.

This game will be played in Civ4, patched to v1.61.

You are cast in the role of Tokugawa, mighty leader of the Japanese. Tokugawa's brother has left the island city of Kyoto to avenge the death of his wife and only son. He has travelled to a distant land without finding their murderer. So the brother of Tokugawa will settle and found a new Japanese colony, and the Japanese have sworn to conquer the rest of civilization in order to hunt down and destroy their enemy.

The game is on a Standard size fractal map, modified as only Gyathaar knows how, at Epic speed. All victory conditions are enabled, but the laurels for this contest will be awarded to the fastest teams to achieve a Conquest victory. The number of AI rivals has not yet been revealed. It will be played using version 1.61 of Civ4 with locked modified assets.

Individual start files for all teams will be available on the SGOTM Progress and Results Page (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php) at midnight, server local time, at the start of August 8th.

Here's the start position.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/civ4games/images/SGOTM02_start.jpg

Map Parameters
Playable Civ - Tokugawa of Japan
World size - Standard
Difficulty - Monarch
Landform - Fractal, hand modified
Game Speed - Epic
AI Aggression - YES!
Barbarians - Raging!!

Please visit the following link to ensure that you are adequately prepared:
Civ4 SGOTM reference thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=168439)

Notes:

A. ONLY Civilization IV v1.61 is supported for this SGOTM. All teams will compete for up to four awards - the Gold, Silver and Bronze Laurels for the fastest finishes, and the Wooden Spoons for the lowest scoring finisher.

B. All teams must play the sponsored variant - victory will be awarded for the fastest victory by Conquest.

C. All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.

Here's a copy of the Team Lists to save you hunting the Sign-up Thread for it.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/images/c4sgotm2_team_list.jpg

A very minor thing, in the Isamu thread, it says that this is SGOMT 1.

Welcome to your C_IV SGOTM 1 Team Thread.

Thx. Fixed it .... in all 21 copies :eek:

The Geezers seem to have changed completely.:eek: Actually there is no geezer in there.:D

I posted about this in the signup thread...Fifth Element seems to have conquered and killed all the Geezers while taking over the name. :)

Sorry about that :blush: I've repaired the damage, I think. Geezers are restored, and I've transferred a New Team 3 player to make you up to six.

Sorry to ask what may be a silly question, but what does this setting mean:

AI Aggression - YES!



Thanks!

I guess it means "Yes --- they are aggressive"

For a given value of aggressive... Gandhi sure can be a mean punching bag sometimes :p

Sorry to ask what may be a silly question, but what does this setting mean:



Thanks!


Means there more aggressive than normal....

@Alan,

Our team came up with the name "Murky Waters" if you want to rename the thread.

Your wish is my command, Oh, Murky One :worship:

Sorry to ask what may be a silly question, but what does this setting mean:

AI Aggression - YES!


When in the Custom Menu when setting up a game, one of the optional boxes to check is Aggressive AI. I assume this box has been checked, and/or our opponents have the Aggressive Trait.

whoa.... Aggresive trait OR they're just more uppity?

whoa.... Aggresive trait OR they're just more uppity?

Or both. The Staff could have checked the box and picked aggressive opponents. Considering our beloved staff, I'm thinking its both. ;)

Your wish is my command, Oh, Murky One :worship:

Thanks. It wasn't my idea. :blush:

Sure, but I shoot messengers, too :D

Thanks. It wasn't my idea. :blush:

Yeah - we ganged up and made him do it:rolleyes:

Yeah - we ganged up and made him do it:rolleyes:

Cruel aren't they? :lol::joke:

Does this mean that hopefully they are also aggressive towards each other or just towards us?

Oh, I don't think they care whether you are human or electronic. :D

Below are a question and my reply from one of the team threads. This may be useful, or old news, for other teams ... or mislead them to the same extent :p.

What are the other tasks of a captain?

Whatever you want them to be. Typical roles may include:

Motivator, promoter and summariser of team discussions, keeper of the roster, enforcer of the 'got-it/post' timetable, spokesperson between the team and admin, arbitrator when the team can't agree on a plan ...

Generally it's wise to have *someone* who drives the game forward, otherwise you'll drift and end up losing the game, losing interest in it, or running out of time. Civ4 in particular seems to need a focus on agreed goals, and regular team refreshers on what they are. You can't play a good Civ4 game with six-to-eight different opinions about how you are going about it.

Question about Conquest victory condition... Do we have to eliminate all Barb cities too? Or, is it sufficient to just eliminate AI cities to trigger conquest victory?

whoa.... Aggresive trait OR they're just more uppity?
Just uppity. We checked the box.

gotcha - uppity AIs. Always fun and thanks

Question about Conquest victory condition... Do we have to eliminate all Barb cities too? Or, is it sufficient to just eliminate AI cities to trigger conquest victory?

I am reliably informed that you don't need to eliminate barb cities to achieve a conquest victory.

Alan,

As the duly elected representative of 'New Team 2' I think we will take the name 'Gipsy Kings'

However we appear to be 3 member short at the moment. I will drop the missing members another note to see if I can attract their attention :)

@AndrewN: Thx. Your thread has been renamed.

If you end up with any no shows we have a standby list of one currently, so you should be able to reach five or six players.

@AndrewN: Thx. Your thread has been renamed.

If you end up with any no shows we have a standby list of one currently, so you should be able to reach five or six players.

Thanks, that was quick :)

I have dropped the missing members an email to see if that will attract any attention

Some late breaking news about your game:

1. We now know that there are seven rivals on the map (not including the barbs).

2. Much pixel-counting effort has been expended to try to work out the distance between Kyoto and the settler. To settle the debates, and to help your strategy discussions move forward, we'll divulge that the second city, if built where the settler stands, would cost 7 gpt in maintenance.

Some late breaking news about your game:

1. We now know that there are seven rivals on the map (not including the barbs).

2. Much pixel-counting effort has been expended to try to work out the distance between Kyoto and the settler. To settle the debates, and to help your strategy discussions move forward, we'll divulge that the second city, if built where the settler stands, would cost 7 gpt in maintenance.

AlanH, The Real Ms. Beyond disputes your outrageous claims!

Edit: AlanH, not Alanh


Snicker snicker...that should keep the other teams second guessing themselves!
Hee hee hee...Do you think anyone will fall for it?
I don't know, let's hope so, tee hee hee.
Hey where's that trash talking thread so we can tell regoarrarr how he's going to lose.
Shut up, fool! He's our captain!
Oh yeah. But I don't think he subscribes to this thread, so it should be okay.
Even if he does, he probably can't read size 1 font!
Bwahahaha...ynuck ynuck ynuck!

By all means feel free to make other assumptions. Just don't come crying to me if it all ends in tears :p

By all means feel free to make other assumptions. Just don't come crying to me if it all ends in tears :p

With the Real Ms. Beyond, everything ends in tears! :cry:

Or is it beers. I can never remember.
Shut up, man! You're gonna get us busted for spamming.
No, I'm not.
Yes, you are!
N...hey look! Italics work at size 1!
Oooh, preeettty....

2. Much pixel-counting effort has been expended to try to work out the distance between Kyoto and the settler. To settle the debates, and to help your strategy discussions move forward, we'll divulge that the second city, if built where the settler stands, would cost 7 gpt in maintenance.

Thats nice, its exactly the cost I estimated :) Its better to be lucky than good I always say :goodjob:

2. Much pixel-counting effort has been expended to try to work out the distance between Kyoto and the settler. To settle the debates, and to help your strategy discussions move forward, we'll divulge that the second city, if built where the settler stands, would cost 7 gpt in maintenance.
Oh a great big BOOO HISSS to you Mr AlanH Sir! Just go and spill all the beans for goodness sake. Next you will be telling people that there is copper 5 tiles N-NE and all other sorts of good stuff.

I just bet that there were a whole bunch of teams that would go ... "Great, another settler, lets build a city ... oh @#$@#$, look at our income!"

Since we all have to subscribe to this thread in order to get relevant information about the game, can we please keep the random noise out of it? There will be a random noise thread for you guys to post in, soon enough.

This is deliberately cross-posted from the Sign-up thread, because it's difficult to know which threads, if any, players actually read.

------------------------------------------------

Final call for the following players who signed up but have not checked in to their departure lounges, or excused their late arrivals as far as I can tell:

Fifth Element gustavoghe
Geezers siddiousstone
Gipsy Kings archath, Ronnie1
Murky Waters Riker
Rat Pack a+ombomb
Team One Doc TK

Since we all have to subscribe to this thread in order to get relevant information about the game, can we please keep the random noise out of it?

Then where would the rest of us poor souls go to feast on the wit and wisdom of the Real Ms Beyond? Clearly we can't enter her thread (a lady has to have some privacy....), and Alan tells us the trash-talking thread has been consigned to the trash

Since we all have to subscribe to this thread in order to get relevant information about the game, can we please keep the random noise out of it? There will be a random noise thread for you guys to post in, soon enough.
These aren't random noises per say ... just random insanity :crazyeye:

These aren't random noises per say ... just random insanity :crazyeye:
Subject closed. Please stay on topic.

Alan,

I'm subscribed to my team's thread and the signon thread but I didn't conciously do this. I have posted there.

If you post in a thread do you get automatically subscribed, daily email notification?

You are automatically subscribed to any thread you post in, but you only get email notifications if you choose that option. I think you can choose it as the default in your profile, or select it on a per-thread basis.

[EDIT] Correction: The default is in your 'Options', not your 'Profile'

AlanH

Regarding Armstrong for VQ Red (I realize I'm Black) but he's a friend and don't want to see him loose his spot, he's probably OOP for a few days as stated in another SG. Could you please hold off on him since he is a reliable player and will be there.

The VQ Red leader should speak up here but considering the deadline stated I just wanted to give some input since Armstrong is always good on picking up his saves and posting.

No problem. I've already indicated that either he takes his spot or the VQ Red resident lurker, dot, will pick it up. We are not overloaded with standby players, and there are no doubt higher priorities for the one(s) we have. It *would* make my life easier if players could warn of impending absence, though.

here i am, at last.

Warmogering welcome, for what i can see

why Japan does not starts with Samurais? perhaps too easy? :satan:

Umm! I don't need every player to sign in here! Just posting in your team thread is enough to let me know you are still alive and breathing. 130+ players all posting here would create way too much unnecessary noise, and you don't have to post here to subscribe. To subscribe to this thread, just go to the Thread Tools menu at the top of this page and select 'Subscribe to this thread'. Select your options and your done.

New Team 4 Update:

All, except one, have checked in so we seem to be in good shape for the game.

We have already taken the two of the most important decisions:

After some discussion we decided to settle for 'Pioneer Knights' as our team name. :salute:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a276/remcoverheij/PioneerKnightslogo.jpg

I will be heading this crusade as we pioneer the world of Tokugawa. Please put me down as captain.


Our goal is to avenge the death of the wife and only son of Tokugawa's brother, and conquer the world in the process. :ar15:
134884 <---- Tokugawa's brother :lol:

Only Furiey hasnt checked in for Team Isamu.

Furiey notified us that she'd be away for a couple of weeks.

Furiey notified us that she'd be away for a couple of weeks.

Ok, now i know.:)

I only know what I read :p

A few reminders before the start of the game, particularly for new SGOTM players:

1. The starting saves will be available on the Progress and Results Page (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php) at midnight tonight, server local time, which is around 04:00 GMT. SGOTM 2 should become the default in the Select Game menu then, and/or you can select it.

2. Each file is branded with the team name. Make sure you download the start file for *your* team. Do NOT download any other team's save at any time during the competition.

3. The GOTM rules apply. NO reloading and NO restarting. Every move or commitment you make during the game should be a new adventure. Any team member can download and *look* at the save file, but only the player who is UP for your team is allowed to *play* the save.

4. At the end of your turn set, upload the saved game file using the Submit C-IV SGOTM Page ( http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm.php). DO NOT upload copies of the save file anywhere else. When you upload your file you will receive a link to your uploaded file. You can copy and paste the link into your turn log post, or the next player can get your uploaded file directly from the Progress and Results Page (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php)

5. When you upload your saved game file you receive a listing of the event log for your set of turns, including any manual entries you made using Shift-Tab. Please use this as an aide-memoire, but don't expect it to replace your own narrative on your moves and decisions.

6. Enjoy your game :)

Just so that we're clear, is it legal for player X to upload a save file in the middle of his turns, for the other players to see?

Yes, though it's dangerous for several obvious reasons.

For those of us that are new and a bit slow on the uptake, what are the "obvious" reasons?

For those of us that are new and a bit slow on the uptake, what are the "obvious" reasons?

Repeated save uploading could result in a nasty keyboard-related repetitive strain injury

AllanH

Have you considered creating a "Best Spoiler" award this time. Posting of spoilers has been a bit slow for SGOTM1 to say the least.

what are the "obvious" reasons?
- Opportunities for the team to get confused about whether the save has been passed on, and which save is the latest.

- More temptations for the team to do the things you aren't supposed to do as defined in 3.

- Opportunities for the team to get confused about whether the save has been passed on, and which save is the latest.

- More temptations for the team to do the things you aren't supposed to do as defined in 3.

Gotcha :thumbsup:

I'm posting this to ensure that all teams are aware of the same techniques.

You are no doubt aware that, when you are building a wonder, there is normally a 50% penalty on hammers per whipped pop point to complete it. Ie, it normally takes twice as many pop points to provide N required hammers to whip a wonder as it does for N hammers to complete another improvement or unit.

Niklas and Methos have identified a further addition to the list of whipping anomalies in Civ4. Apparently, if you add overflow hammers from a whip to a wonder they are *not* divided by 2, as they would be if you pop rushed the wonder directly.

There is already the known bug in calculating overflow, and the fact that you can repeatedly overflow from whips into a wonder build. Add this latest find, and whipping becomes very powerful indeed. The first two techniques are used fairly widely, and have no doubt been used to build wonders in other games. In doing so, players will have been benefiting from the 50% penalty avoidance even if they were unaware of it.

For this game, I am not going to define a rule to constrain the use of these tactics, separately or in combination. Feel free to use them, since they may well be part of your usual game in many cases, and you may well have done your planning on this basis. We shall, however, reserve the right to define C-IV GOTM rules for future games to limit their effectiveness if they prove to be seriously unbalancing.

Abusing this flaw sucks.

Maybe use HOF1.61.006 Mod where they fix the bug.

I believe the latest HoF mod fixes the overflow calculation error, but doesn't apply the 50% penalty for wonders. I've raised it with the HoF developers.

We'll probably introduce the HoF mod as an option for future SGOTMs, in the same way as it will arrive on GOTM next month.

Not that I'll ever qualify for any awards, but if the mod eliminates the bug and its use will be optional, wouldn't that create a potentially unfair advantage for those not using the mod (and intending to abuse the bug)?

Maybe then it would mean the scores would have 2 different tables-those using the HoF mod and those not...

All I do know is that (a) there are people apparently opposed on principle to mods, and (b) there are players for whom the mod is not an option, because they play on Macs.

We would simply have to require all players to obey whatever rules we impose. Nothing new there. If using the mod makes it easier for players to abide by a rule then so be it.

Can you detect the wonder-whipping-by-overflow from current saves submitted? If so and you all decide to rule it an exploit then it's not a major problem to monitor.

Probably not easily, though I haven't investigated. But an inability to detect a banned exploit doesn't stop us from declaring it as banned.

The S/GOTM games are largely run on a basis of trust. The only awards in these games are the accolades of fellow players. I can't imagine anyone getting any satisfaction from receiving plaudits from players they've cheated.

[party]

Happy Birthday to you!
Happy Birthday to you!

Happy Birthday, dear Alan! :goodjob:
Happy Birthday to you!
:bday:

[party] :band: :king: :beer: :goodjob:

[party] :bday: [party]

Congratulations!!!

Hehe

I suspect Team Smurkz may be trying to win preferential treatment in SGOTM2 here! ;)

PS. Happy Birthday Alan :king: - from all of us in team Murky Waters!

Not that AlanH does not deserve the congratulations, but please - no more in a maintenance thread with 100+ subscribers.

Yeah, I know, this is another post without subscriber value, but if it can stop more of them..

I suspect Team Smurkz may be trying to win preferential treatment in SGOTM2 here! ;) Nah, not here, we keep that stuff in our own team thread where the rest of you can't see it! :mischief: :p

:thanx:

Thanks very much, Guys, but enough spam, already! You'll get me drummed out of the moderator brigade

Alan H,
just wanted you to know that I accidentially entered another team thread for half a second before I could hit the back button.

TDK

As long as you exit *immediately* without reading anything then this can be tolerated. I strongly suggest, however, that due care and attention is taken whenever players are selecting threads anywhere in this area or on the Progress Page.

Alan H,
just wanted you to know that I accidentially entered another team thread for half a second before I could hit the back button.

TDK

The best way to avoid this is to enter your team thread from your subscriptions page. This way you can still see if there have been any new posts and go straight to your own team thread without worrying so much about accidently clicking the wrong one.

Doesn't everyone use their UserCP as their "CFC home page"?

I've just bookmarked the page, that way I just go from what ever I'm looking at to Isamu with no danger of looking at the wrong page.

nope-in this way it helps that team cdz posts are offsite as i rarely visit here :)

Alan H,
just wanted you to know that I accidentially entered another team thread for half a second before I could hit the back button.

TDK


Unfortunately, I just did exactly the same thing, clicking on the team right above mine. I exited immediately, and came here to state it for the record. I guess its forgivable given these similar posts? And you can certainly verify that my duration in the other team's forum was negligible.

Sorry :blush:

I guess its forgivable given these similar posts? And you can certainly verify that my duration in the other team's forum was negligible.

To point out the obvious, there's no way to tell how long you looked at it. Once you visit a page, it's in your browser for as long as you want it to be.

Please can we all just take more care when selecting threads to view?

Doesn't everyone use their UserCP as their "CFC home page"?
Hmz, didnt think of that....

I use the GOTM forum as my CFC homepage :)

Alan, by mistake I hit "previous thread" instead of "reply" (I refresh the page, so it moves).

Then I enetered for less than a second in I don't know which team thread, just the time to hit "back"

Hope this is not a problem, anyway usually the first page never contains something "spoiling".

I bookmarked my team's first page, in addition to CFC main, to avoid problems, since the beginning of the SG.
Anyway, if you can see I entered, you'll probably can see it was a "touch and go".

On my browser "Previous thread" is right next to "Next thread". Both are dangerous, and both are a loooong way away from "Reply". Please just be more careful!!!

What more can I say? It's your game. If you spoil it, it's your funeral :eek:

Alan, no need to be so hard, of course I don't spoil, surely I don't want damage my team and my reputation.

First of all you can check, and second the wrong click happened -dot-, it's not the case of a technical discussion.

I'm sorry for the inconvenience, of course, but I didn't nothing to cause it.

Just because you didn't intend to doesn't mean that the rule doesn't exist. It's been known for a long time that you never visit threads in this forum that are not your own if you are still playing.

It has dire consequences and can and will spoil your team. I think that the rules state that if you are caught visiting another team's thread, your whole team is disqualified. Just don't do it. Not accidentally and definately not intentionally.

Alan, no need to be so hard
I'm only reacting to a recent spate of these events, yours was just the latest. It appears players are getting more careless. I hope everyone would be as careful here as you no doubt are when playing the game.

Another potential pitfall is to click on a poster's name to "find another posts from user", even if you are in a completely unrelated forum, just to find out *headers* from SGOTM posts by your unsuspected rival. I've done this today, while searching a post from a forumer in GOTM10 pre-game discussion (I didn't notice he was also a SGOTM player). Not sure if anything harmful can be read from those headers, I've just clicked the back button immediately and left that page.

I have a suggestion make the S/GOTM forum unsearchable too eliminate what conquistador pointed out

I'm not aware that the forums can be separately specified as non-searchable.

Another simple, and indeed convenient solution to the "oops-I-clicked-on-the-wrong-thread" problem is to bookmark the "goto first post button," to the left of the thread name. Not only does it mean that you in your hastiness cannot inadvertently embarrass yourself (unless someone, using your computer, horrifically judges you based on your Civ Geekiness, which is true in any case and should only be denied in an attempt to support the Psychiatrists Club of America, or England, or Finland, or the associated Federation International De Psychiatrists), but it takes you right back to where you left off. Isn't that convenient? Don't you feel better? Because I most certainly will feel clever, for using this unapproved, but right-clickey method. :good job:

How about just not reporting, when you accidently enter the wrong thread; just get out of the thread and let life go on....works for me :smoke:

how about just exercise some control, maybe slow down, all with the knowledge your team forfits the contest if you screw up. accidental or not.

i think all here can handle the pressure.

AlanH ... I think there is an issue with the log extraction. I just uploaded a save and the log included the message that I got 74 gold from something when it was really only 7 (FYI 265BC). Sorry to be cryptic, trying not to be spoilerish.

That's to do with the way the log is dumped from the file. It includes some internal Civ4 codes for the little icons for gold, hammers, food etc., and the event log dump you see can't do anything with them, so you just see '4' instead of the gold icon. Not much I can do about it, I'm afraid.

ahhh - that makes perfect sense. I noted it in my report ... didn't want my team mates demanding the extra gold back!

I've posted the first spoiler thread. Here are the conditions for reading and posting, as stated in the first post in the thread:


To qualify to READ in the spoiler thread your team must know all the rivals in the game, or know of their demise.

To qualify to POST in the spoiler thread a nominated scribe from your team must post a summary of your game up to the point defined above.
...
When posting, please do not discuss future events beyond the date you met the spoiler condition.

AlanH,

Imagine the following (perhaps hypothetical, or again, perhaps not) scenario:

- Someone played his turnset halfway
- Posted a screenshot to ask for team's opinion
- Divine intervention prevented this someone to continue playing, or for that matter, uploading the save

What should the teammates do?

My guess: (1) retire, and wait to receive the wooden spoon award, or (2) play from the most recent save, and if possible duplicate this "someone's" moves.

--

A PM would be better, as it's not a general issue. In fact it seems not to be an issue at all. I've replied in your thread

I was playing the last turnset for FUBAR team. I had made a couple of diplomatic trades, (traded a tech to 2 rivals) since my last save and then had to leave my computer for a while. There were no unit moves or completed turns during the save. In the meantime, a family member had rebootedthe system becuase another app was causing problems.

I went ahead and restarted the game and repeated the same diplomatic moves. Is that a problem? There was no change in gameplay or different results. Please let's know.

It's the same as a computer crash. Play from the last save, replaying the previous moves accurately.

@All players: Please ensure that you are set up to autosave every turn in case of this kind of event so that you only have to replay the last turn.

It's the same as a computer crash. Play from the last save, replaying the previous moves accurately.

@All players: Please ensure that you are set up to autosave every turn in case of this kind of event so that you only have to replay the last turn.


Is there any way to do this short of editing the ini file? *hates to muck with files if she doesn't have to*

The only way I know is editing the .ini file. You "muck with files" every time you create a document or save a game :p. There's a backup version already in place that you can restore if necessary, but all you're doing is changing a single number in a text file.

Hi Admins,

Is there any way to change the colour of the SGOTM2 score graph for 'Short Straw' White on White seems to make their progress rather invisible. I'd suggest that white be editied out of the Graph config colour loop completely, as it just doesn't work.

Please can you tell me what browser/OS/screen colour resolution you are using? On my systems the graph has a light blue background, and white stands out quite well as one of the graph colours.

Here's a screenshot of it on my normal system and browser.

I think the forum colour theme / skin also comes into play ... my setup has a light grey background.

Forum skin has nothing to do with the GOTM site.

Alan I am having an issue with being unsubscribed from my team thread.
I subscribe to the thread and it says I am subscribed but I never get an email when my team thread is updated (and yes I have it set to send me an immediate email when there is a response).

For the first 2-3 weeks I was getting the emails fine but now I have re-subscribed 4 times and not getting any notifications.

The irony is that I will be subsribing to this thread in case you have any ideas :) Hopefully this works.

James

I never use email notifications, so I don't know if it's working. Have you checked whether it's getting filtered into your spam bucket? Always a possibility these days. Other than that, you'll have to take it up in a PM to Thunderfall, the site Admin. I have no special powers with respect to that side of things.

In addition, your ISP may be filtering out due to the volume assuming it is SPAM. My ISP does this most of the time. Last week I received over 50 email notifications from CivFanatics that covered almost a month. Since then, nothing. :rolleyes:

What are the chances of finding or applying for reinforcements to our team, Gypsy Kings? From the initial seven members, two no longer play, and at least one other (me) frequently skips.

Obviously, I understand that finding someone who has an interest in S/GOTMs who hasn't also read any or all of the other team's threads is highly unlikely, but I have to try.

Well, you can ask - as you have done. As you say, the chances are pretty small of finding a player who isn't spoilt.

Four players plus a part timer isn't *too* bad, but you do have to apply a bit of discipline :whipped:

Anyone want a spot?

It sounds interesting but I've never tried S/Gotm. I'd be afraid I do more harm than good to the team.

You don't have to be some kind of pro, Smidlee. I'm a total noob.

The best thing you can do for the team is play a few turns a week and write a little report on it. That's what would help us most of all.

As long as you haven't been checking out other teams' threads, would you like to join Gypsy Kings?

thats not bad, think we managed to skip the entire roster at cdz a couple of times :D

for awhile its been about 4/5 of us playing while the others get their pc's sorted out :)

Parse error: parse error, unexpected '=' in /home/gotmciv/public_html/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_upload.php on line 89Someone playing with the upload script? :p

Yes :blush: Now fixed.

:lol: players allways get caught :)

Oh behold the wonders of duck typing! :p

(programmer pun, if you didn't understand just move along ;))

No duck typing here, but it does demonstrate the perils of trying to update scripts at 03:00 am after several similar 03:00 am sessions during the previous nights. Saving a partially-edited copy of a script and then falling asleep is not a good way to improve the site reliability record :eek:

The site/forumn seem more than reliable to me...

Some hickup are bound to happen...

Keep up the good (and early?) work :)

The power graph on the SGOTM2 progress page has a couple of very interesting lines on it which I don't think are right - like two teams whose power suddenly became zero (but their scores didn't)...?

Yes, part of the same glitch. Fixed now.

Are we having a time limit on this game? (havnt checked anywhere) but we seem to be taking things very relaxed at cdz and just wanted to check i didnt need to get the whip out.

yeah like you're one to :cringe::whipped: anyone :lol:

yeah like you're one to :cringe::whipped: anyone :lol:
:mischief:
well maybe we've all been taking this very relaxed

I tried pushing the Civ3 SGOTM 11 teams into playing a tad faster, but as far as I can tell that had zero impact, so I'll just relax and let you all decide whether you want to complete this game or not. Go too slow and you'll start to lose momentum, then people drop out because they can't be bothered to wait for two months to play their next turn .... a vicious circle. But it's your game :p

I think setting the deadline in the previous game did help a little...

Our team seems to be playing at a steady pace. If there's no deadline, then teams that finish early might lose interest in the next SGOTM.

I agree with Obormot that a deadline is useful. This game is longer than SGOTM01 and returns to school/vacations have slowed us and probably some other teams. I would say a deadline (say mid to end of November) would be good since it seems some teams are finishing or almost finished.

Well, I had some negative reactions last time I set a deadline, but ....

OK - can everyone live with the end of November?

The Real Ms. Beyond is insulted! A lady needs her time :lol:

(And probably a long time...)

Well, I had some negative reactions last time I set a deadline, but ....

OK - can everyone live with the end of November?


at our rate probs not but ill try and get us all moving.

From experience, setting a deadline moved us along alot faster in SGOTM1. End of November is fairly reasonable I think.

End of November should be fine; we should be wrapped up before then on Team Peanut. :)

How about just setting up a deadline for any SGOTM, just like there is a deadline for the xOTM (1 month).

How about we make the standard deadline 3 months or even 2...

At sets of 10 turns, 400 turns would take 40 sets in 60 (2 months) or 90 (3 months) days. At a 3 month limit that is one set every 2 days, IF you play the full game...

not that I can speak for my team, but we should have no trouble finishing before the end of november

Many of the teams who still aren't finished, are really struggling to get their games moving along. Less than one or two turnsets per week are played. Incidentally, these are nearly always the same teams who have very little discussion of strategy and tactics going on in their threads. So the slow pace is not due to the time required to think and discuss. Note that right after the start of the SGOTM, every team's thread was quite lively. Then, as some of the teams were finding themselves falling behind in the game, their enthusiasm and desire to play seem to have been waning as well. Suddenly everybody started having real-life commitments precluding them from playing. Actually, I believe, it's just their interest in the game dropped so low, it became a lower priority than basically everything else.

Participating in a SGOTM doesn't take an awful lot of time, - you don't have to play out the entire game yourself. Playing the turns is the most time-consuming activity but you only get to do 1/6 to 1/8 of that. Most of the time, you just read and analyze. For me, personally, it amounts to maybe 15 or 30 minutes a day on average. Now, sometimes real-life doesn't even allow you that much time. But usually I'm able to find those 15-30 minutes, because I'm actively looking. Playing in a SGOTM is supposed to be fun, you should be actually looking forward to it, not forcing yourself to do it. When it stops being fun, no wonder it completely takes a backseat to any real-life activities.

Deadlines never have been a very effective way of making projects finish on time; we in the software industry know this all too well. Definitely, it isn't going to speed up those teams for whom their game is no longer fun but rather a liability. But it will reward the teams who are fast and skillful, by allowing them to enjoy the next SGOTM sooner, and on a predictable schedule.

As captain of the slowest-playing team in SGOTM01, I must say that the deadline was a good thing, it made it a lot easier to put some weight behind the :whipped:! :D

not that I can speak for my team, but we should have no trouble finishing before the end of november

Although we are down to 3 players and an occasional Thrallia.:lol:

Maybe a deadline is difficult, but I agree with the post of Balbes. Sometimes it is difficult to keep your attention, especially when things are getting difficult or slow. When you find that some days there is nothing happening, you stop looking, and then things only start getting more boring.

Another option that comes into my mind is setting a date for the next SGOTM, and only allowing those teams to participate that have finished the current SGOTM. That looks the same as a deadline, with the difference that there is a penalty for not finishing.
It sounds good to have a SGOTM starting every 3 months. This should give enough time for discussion and playing regularly.

Balbes nailed it.

One thing that I noticed was that playing with 8 people meant your turn came around once in 16 days (2 weeks). That makes it difficult to keep the interest in the game. Non SGOTM SGs have a roster of about 5 players and seem to keep the interest up. Is there some thought to having smaller rosters? Or does a large roster include allowances for no-shows and drop outs?

I agree, we started with 7, which means a lot of time between turns. Especially with some people being quite unreliable. In the end 3 people dropped leaving us with 4 dedicated players. This greatly improved the gaming speed and interest.

Even before we were left with 4 we were quite strict with pickup/playtime etc.
Also checking diaries and planning ahead was useful. Like Player 2 is only available Friday, Player 3 does Saturday and Player 1 returns on Sunday.

well to speed things along, team cdz has just come up with a rule of anyone play it whenever they can :D so we should be done :D

I agree with Balbes and Mr. White. It's hardly fair to allow those dying teams to dictate the frequency of SGOTMs. Mr. White's idea to set a date for the next SGOTM and require applicants for that game to have finished playing in the previous game should motivate those dying teams to retire or designate a game finisher. I'm sure the other living teams who still have hopes of finishing (and conquering) SGOTM2 will have no trouble meeting a reasonable deadline.

Playing on a team of 6 people seemed perfect. Losing 1 or 2 players didn't really stop the momentum of the game, and it never seemed like one was waiting an eternity for ones turn. I guess having extra players doesn't really provide any insurance against losing momentum. If the game starts to suck, everyone has something else to do.

Edit: It looks like there was a 10 day sign-up window for SGOTM2. How about opening sign-ups for SGOTM3 sometime in mid-November so the new game can start in early December? If the game starts in mid-late December, the holidays could kill the early game discussion.

In SGOTM1, most teams were able to finish within 3 months, and right now in SGOTM2 we have (*spoiler*: don't read if your team is still playing) a batch of teams at a similar point in their games, namely: the final military push started, and should be able to win in 20-30 turns. With reasonable effort, all these teams can be done before Nov 8 which is exactly 3 months from the start of SGOTM2.

Well obviously if you get a conquest victory in the 14th century you're going to finish early. Teams still playing may not be lazy, or indeed "dying", it's just their game lasts longer. The game deadline should be set so that even a team that completes their game in 2049 AD will have time to play, if they play at a reasonable rate. That said, the end of November sounds like a fair deadline.

Also CDZ has one of the most active discussion threads going (you wont notice because the majority of them are offsite) we just tend to be a little slow when actually playing the turns.

Well obviously if you get a conquest victory in the 14th century you're going to finish early. Teams still playing may not be lazy, or indeed "dying", it's just their game lasts longer. The game deadline should be set so that even a team that completes their game in 2049 AD will have time to play, if they play at a reasonable rate. That said, the end of November sounds like a fair deadline.

I meant no offense to your team. If only all of us were as good as CFR.... There are several teams out there that are playing at a deliberate pace and still have an active thread and a reasonable play rate. But there are other teams for whom the game has become admittedly hopeless and who might not finish by the end of the year. I suspect those teams are anxious to start SGOTM3 and have Tokugawa's accursed brother off their hands.

Also CDZ has one of the most active discussion threads going (you wont notice because the majority of them are offsite)

....which makes it hard to lurk on your team. :p

....which makes it hard to lurk on your team. :pthat's the point Shannon ;) Why let you guys in on our secrets?? :lol:

....which makes it hard to lurk on your team. :p


they still get posted on cfc, just not as individual posts.

Well, I had some negative reactions last time I set a deadline, but ....

OK - can everyone live with the end of November?Seems fine we'll be finished by then.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but setting up a deadline does not mean that the teams have to stop playing. It would only mean that the official results will be announced. Those teams which were unable to finish up to the deadline can continue playing and hopefully all will win eventually. :)

...deadline does not mean that the teams have to stop playing.

If we agree a deadline then that is correct. The results page never closes and you can continue to upload saves and see them appear on the graphs, but when the deadline is reached the awards are fixed.

I think the idea of having a time span for the game set at the beginning is a good one - say three months - just like GOTM"s and WOTM's have one month. I think this is something to consider for the next game.

I don't know whether that is good, as some games take much longer than other ones, and not always can this be anticipated before (yes, I am thinking about the Dumbos to Space SGOTM)

Setting a deadline some weeksafter the game starts sounds fine.
In the last SGOTM that helped us focus a little more.
BTW end of November is fine with me, I'll make sure, CDZ will be done by then.

...deadline does not mean that the teams have to stop playing.
If we agree a deadline then that is correct. The results page never closes and you can continue to upload saves and see them appear on the graphs, but when the deadline is reached the awards are fixed.

What awards will be handed out? Just top 3 and last? Logically there will be a point when one, then two, then three teams have finished faster than any team who is still playing, and won the gold, silver and bronze. And anyone who is still playing is then playing for pride or to avoid the wooden spoon. So as long as this happens before the deadline, the deadline itself becomes immaterial for the top end of the awards, and it just fixes the wooden spoon.

So any team that considers themselves out of the running for the top awards, and safe from the wooden spoon can take as long as they want?

there are 2 awards... the laurel and the spoon

... and I think from reading the spoilers that the wooden spoon is already taken.

... and I think from reading the spoilers that the wooden spoon is already taken.

It's not so certain. A team must complete its game to win the wooden spoon. If you retire or dont finish by the deadline, then you are out of the running for this dubious honor.

As there are so many teams participating, what do you think about introducing another SGOTM prize, the Special Distinction Award, to be awarded by popular vote to a team who didn't finish in the Top 3, but still played a game that was outstanding in some respect. These may include:
Unorthodox Opening
Killer Tactics
Hardcore Micromanagement
Macchiavelian Diplomacy
Smooth Interaction
Outrageous Exploit
Miraculous Comeback

In SGOTM1, this award would likely have gone to Rat Pack, who had managed to get themselves into permanent war with their always-peace ally, and got severely smashed because that AI was ages ahead in tech, but then surprised everybody again by persuading another tech leader into a permanent alliance, and winning! In SGOTM2, I think, there are two teams with a strong claim on Special Distinction.

there are 2 awards... the laurel and the spoon
Someone else who hasn't read the reference thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=168439) recently :p

I volunteer to take the spoon!!!

what's a ref-er-ence thread? :blush:

Since I have taken the lead for team Gipsy Kings, I'll say we may be able to finish by the end of November. I've just sent PM's and emails to all team members that have not been active recently, requesting them to check in. I'll do my best to keep the ball rolling from this point.

novemember is good.

having trouble uploading game save. is the an issue or is it my pc?

I'm having difficulty too.

I've checked the upload process and it works for me. If you are having problems, email me the save and I'll investigate.

gotm_submit (at) civfanatics (dot) net

I posted the save in our thread and someone else was able to upload - guess it was just me making a mistake (so what is new there!)

okay. able to get save posted.

Our team is nearly finished with this SGOTM. Would it be ok to view other team threads after we have submitted our final save?

@Murky: Yes, that's the normal procedure. Please don't post in active team threads.

I've posted the Final Spoiler (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=4717158) for this game. Please don't read it until you have completed the game.

AlanH - drag and drop mod installer for Civ 4 - is there a write up somewhere for that?

Sorry, ruff_hi, I have added to my sig that my C-IV utilities are for Mac OS X. I don't do Windows if I can possibly avoid it ;)

The SGOTM 3 Sign Up thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=192760) is now open. We'll start this game on 1st December, and it will be a dual Vanilla and Warlords event, assuming we get enough teams to make two competitions.

Apart from the normal congrats for running a great SG just wanted to thank Gyathaar for producing a genuinely interesting map and scenario which I felt was both Fun and Challenging!!

ralph

I propose to publish the results and awards for this game on 14th December. Incomplete games on that date will not be eligible for an award, so please try to reach a conclusion by then.

You will still be able to upload and download files after that, and your data will continue to be recorded in the progress charts.

We were under the impression you had set the date as the end of November. No problem, it would be nice to be done for the start of SGOTM3 anyway.

I never actually set a deadline, we only discussed the option. Since we are now in the midst of the US turkey-slaughtering season, I didn't think it's a good idea to declare a deadline now that many would have trouble dealing with while they are away from home and computer. As you say, I hope most will want to get this one put to bed before starting SGOTM 3.

I have now posted the final awards for this game on the Progress and Results page ( http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php?game=50002&displayteams=displayteams), and opened a Results and Congratulations thread