Welcome to your C_IV SGOTM 2 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=4354542) for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest.

This game will be played in Civ4, patched to v1.61.

You are cast in the role of Tokugawa, mighty leader of the Japanese. Tokugawa's brother has left the island city of Kyoto to avenge the death of his wife and only son. He has travelled to a distant land without finding their murderer. So the brother of Tokugawa will settle and found a new Japanese colony, and the Japanese have sworn to conquer the rest of civilization in order to hunt down and destroy their enemy.

The game is on a Standard size fractal map, modified as only Gyathaar knows how, at Epic speed. All victory conditions are enabled, but the laurels for this contest will be awarded to the fastest teams to achieve a Conquest victory. The number of AI rivals has not yet been revealed. It will be played using version 1.61 of Civ4 with locked modified assets.

Individual start files for all teams will be available on the SGOTM Progress and Results Page (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php) at midnight, server local time, at the start of August 8th.

Here's the start position.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/civ4games/images/SGOTM02_start.jpg

Map Parameters
Playable Civ - Tokugawa of Japan
World size - Standard
Difficulty - Monarch
Landform - Fractal, hand modified
Game Speed - Epic
AI Aggression - YES!
Barbarians - Raging!!

Please visit the following link to ensure that you are adequately prepared:
Civ4 SGOTM reference thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=168439)

Notes:

A. ONLY Civilization IV v1.61 is supported for this SGOTM. All teams will compete for up to four awards - the Gold, Silver and Bronze Laurels for the fastest finishes, and the Wooden Spoons for the lowest scoring finisher.

B. All teams must play the sponsored variant - victory will be awarded for the fastest victory by Conquest.

C. All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.

I'm sure you'll enjoy this game :D

Well we time the victory in SGOTM1 well, have a week off and back into the carnage!

Welcome to our new members, Lobsterboy and Elandra (from team madviking?)!

Hail to our new comrades in arms. And cheers to all the old members.

Greetings all! Thanks for welcoming an SGOTM1 refugee onto your team. I hope that this campaign will prove to be somewhat more successful that my last one!

First thoughts:

Distance to palace is going to be a killer. So forbidden palace is a quick must have. And we should also consider the Versailles. Another option is to give away our capital, if that is possible. A good thing is that Togukawa is Organized.

We are aggressive, which suits a conquest win condition. Our unique unit is the Samurai, so we have an advantage in the "second generation" war units, which is fine, and we should plan our moves, so we are ready for a big push when we get them.

Kyoto, is definitely a suitable site for The Colosus, only problem is that it doesn't have any production to speak of, so we probably won't get it.

First move: I don't know about moving the warrior onto the hill, because I think that it will reveal that much. I'd move the warrior to the sw into the forest, and then decide upon a move for the settler. If nothing shows, I would move the settler one south and then decide.

That was my immediate thoughts, please comment and shoot great big holes in it, so we can get the fastest finish. I WANNA WIN.

Distance to palace is going to be a killer. So forbidden palace is a quick must have.
Stuff that! Just move the Palace. Maybe even use a GE to do it, if we build the Pyramids. The idea of giving Kyoto away is interesting. I'm not sure, but my guess is that we would have to move the Palace first before we could give Kyoto away.

First move: I don't know about moving the warrior onto the hill, because I think that it will reveal that much. I'd move the warrior to the sw into the forest, and then decide upon a move for the settler. If nothing shows, I would move the settler one south and then decide.
My inclination is to move the Warrior SE, and either settle in place or move the Settler NW to settle on the coast. By moving NW, we would lose the fresh water, but would gain the Fish. The city may not be that productive, because it may only have the single grassland hill, but it should be a good "whipping post". There appear to be two hills and a Forrest to the E, so settling in place would produce a pretty good production city. We will lose the fish, however, as well two food from two coastal tiles in the fat cross. I don't like moving S because I don't want to lose the Rice.

My 2 cents worth...

Not worried about maintenance in this game. It is a conquest win, we don't need that many cities. Just keep pumping out units!!! I would say 6 cities max (maybe even less).

Settle in place (waste of floodplain though) or maybe move one NW, move the warrior SE (just like lobsterboy said!)

I would say bronze working first, then animal husbandry, archery, iron working and the move to machinery.

First city build warrior, worker, settler, barracks. Settler for bronze if its nearby.

An early ace rush to eliminate nearby civs will be a huge bonus. Axes out of a barracks with aggressive trait can get cover promotions off the bat (+25% vs archers) and are one xp away from adding a City Raider promotion, which makes them nearly unbeatable against early archers.

As for Kyoto, work boats look good, maybe an archer before Astonomy!!! Actually, could be a GP farmish (can run 4 specialists if we have all 4 resources work boated, some whipping required methinks). Can use the GPs to pop techs.

I'm going to play my broken record one last time for each team:


Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?goto=lastpost&t=180489) for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest.

Anything I post there will NOT be repeated individually in every team thread. You may even find some useful information there now :p

Hi team! Glad to join you, and thanks for having me. As Lobsterboy said, I hope this fares better than our madviking game.

My thoughts on the start:
- Move warrior inland to explore and bust fog; raging barbs scare me. Moving him east or southeast looks good.
- Move settler NW and settle there; I think it still has fresh water (isn't the edge of the dark square showing us a hint of river?), and it has more food overall, and a coastal capital seems appropriate to the funky start somehow.
- The maintenance thread has highlighted the fact that we will be immediately burdened by a 7gpt maintenance cost for Kyoto, so research will feel slow. Moving the palace seems quite urgent. What's more important to us, an early axe rush or a palace move? We need to decide where to focus our hammers.
- SInce the AI are all agressive, we ought to let them bash on each other as much as possible, and poise ourselves for cleaning up the weaklings. If I were playing this standalone, I'd probably wait until half-way through the tech tree to bother with any offensive units. Spend the first half of the game building a dominant infrastructure, and then take our show on the road. (Of course Lobsterboy can attest that I have no clue about warfare; I'm here to learn :blush: )

Just my $0.02

:)

We have one standby player currently: retro V.

Since Chokonuts have two no-shows currently, and appear to be down to four players, I recommend we ask retro V to join your team. Even if both your missing players turn up later, you'll still be at seven, which is OK. How do you feel about that?

Has anyone emailed and/or PM'd the two missing players?

We have one standby player currently: retro V.

Since Chokonuts have two no-shows currently, and appear to be down to four players, I recommend we ask retro V to join your team. Even if both your missing players turn up later, you'll still be at seven, which is OK. How do you feel about that?

Has anyone emailed and/or PM'd the two missing players?

I know that ngraner and terminator were keen. I'll try a PM to get them to check in.

No great dramas with having a 7th.

And he's back in to take the total to $0.04.

Wow 7gpt is a killer. Palace move will be needed. Anyone got an idea what this will drop our research to? Also, I've never moved the palace before, what techs are needed to do this (if any). Code of Laws becomes important as well (luckily on the way to maces).

I still think an early axe cleanup of close-by civs would be good but will have to fit around the palace build.

Bronze Working still first I think, which will enable a chop of the palace, so maybe a worker before warrior.

Checking in. Tomorrow I will try to post some starting thoughts.

Terminator3k is busy with NASCAR this weekend, but can be counted on.

Thanks for letting me know. I'll review the standby options now that I am aware that your team is up to planned strength.

Our capital will be quickly producing 17 commerce, so the -7 can be handled. The real trouble will start when we found city 3. This increases the importance of the city 2 location.

Our 2nd city will not be generating any culture and we do not have Mysticism to make Obelisks. Settling NW both resources will be out of range and we still may not have any 2 hammer tiles.

There is no hurry to settle, since research has already started. In fact settling will slow down research.

The conclusion I reach is that we need to find a better city site. There is normally a short grace period before animals become an issue. I think we should send both units exploring in search of a better location.

Barbarians are going to be bad. At least Kyoto will not need to worry :) . We will also need Slavery for Kyoto. So an early Mining > BW seems right. Mysticism may be needed for the Obelisks depending on our 2nd city site.

If we go for my Settler wandering plan, we can research Mining which is needed for multiple reasons and then reevaluate going directly to BW after determining the 2nd city site. For example, we may discover Hunting resources, making Hunting a good choice (also setting up Archery if we miss on the Copper).

The wandering settler idea is clever, but it makes me nervous. We are pretty much out of the race if we lose him. It'd be impossible to get another settler to the mainland with any time for expansion. Are we dead sure there is an 'animal grace period"?

There is no hurry to settle, since research has already started. In fact settling will slow down research.

*THWAP* (*sound of palm hitting forehead*) Of course! Excellent point! Perhaps we should have our Settler follow the river until he find a decent resource to settle next too? Maybe 2-3 turns max.

Like the wandering settler plan. Think it is the way to go. We'll need to keep the warrior closeish though. It is raging barbarians so we can't take too long to find a spot.

If I get the time I might fire up a practice game tonight to see how long before animals and warriors of the barbarian kind appear.

Ran it a couple of times.

First animals 3550BC, 3430BC
First barbs 2620BC (archer), 2620BC

So it looks as if you've got at least 15 or so turns before animals in which to settle. As its raging barbarians we would need an archer for defense by 2620BC in our cities. Maybe we wander around and try to find a high production city site!?!

Also looked up Palace in Civpedia, doesn't need any techs but need 4 cities :eek: . Not so good.

If we run into an AI Warrior, that could suck too! Do you think an AI would attack our hapless Settler unprovoked?

I think the that the wandering settler plan sounds great, and I also think that we should focus on a heavy production site. So I think bronze working and animal husbandry should be one of our first goals.

Looks like we can pick up the save and get going today (my time!). Shall we work on a roster likle SGOTM1 for the first round, ie whoever grabs it first is up and we'll stick with that roster throughout???

There are 6 of us so maybe 20,20,15,15,10,10 turns each first round??

Whoever is up first should find a good (high production?) spot to settle in the first 10ish turns and whoever is up 2nd has to deal with the barbarians!!

Sounds like a plan. Especially in these critical early turns, if you hit an important decision point, I would recommend stopping and asking the team for advice before continuing.

Sounds like a plan. Especially in these critical early turns, if you hit an important decision point, I would recommend stopping and asking the team for advice before continuing.

Good point. Might be worth only having 10 turns first up and posting the world map to get a consensus on where to found.

Good point. Might be worth only having 10 turns first up and posting the world map to get a consensus on where to found.

I concur.

About turns, currently I'm only able to play on weekends, so when it becomes my turn, I would like you to skip me, until I'm able to grab the save.

Another thing, should we keep the rules about time between turns that we had in the last game?
Waiting at least 24 hours from the save is posted until the next grabs it, to allow comments and discussions.
And a 72 hour timelimit for grabbing the save, to keep the game flowing.

Another thing, should we keep the rules about time between turns that we had in the last game?
Waiting at least 24 hours from the save is posted until the next grabs it, to allow comments and discussions.
And a 72 hour timelimit for grabbing the save, to keep the game flowing.

Yes to this :goodjob: .

Sounds good to me.

OK. Posting the first GOT IT!

I'll play 10 or so turns and post a proposed settling!

A wandering settler and his best mate Pete.

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8606/civ4screenshot0008mk5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The good folk in Kyoto decide to research Hunting.

They meet Izzy, a religious nutcase. I think the aggressive AI means that they start annoyed rather than cautious.

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/1293/civ4screenshot0016kd3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

They pop a hut which contains a map. Very quickly they find the perfect place to settle.

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/9440/civ4screenshot0017at0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

That is seriously one of the best sites I've seen in a while. Plenty of food, money and production to offset the maintenance.

I only played 4-5 turns but thought I'd interrupt to get agreement from the group to settle here. I'll continue the turns after this.

I was looking at Archery, Mining, Bronze Working as tech path. Warrior, archer, worker and then another archer as builds. The raging barbs when they come will be 4-5 strong every turn. If we've got an archer we'll beat them off easily

I only played 4-5 turns but thought I'd interrupt to get agreement from the group to settle here.
You need to ask??? YOWZA!! :eek: What a site!

Actually, if you settle on the hill to the SW, we'll pick up an extra hammer in the city tile. It's next to the oasis, so will still have fresh water. What's to the West and South of the Hill site?

With the Oasis in the "First Circle", the city will actually grow a little faster until we can get a Library/Obelisk up to get border expansions.

Great job finding this location. Going to the plains hill looks to work better in the short term. We should double check the longer term impact. The screen shot does not let us see all the tiles we pick up, but we loose 1 flood plain, 2 Grassland, a plain, and 2 plains hills, while gaining 2 grassland. Hopefully we don't pick up a couple desert tiles. Without all the information, I tend to agree with the move to the hill, because it will be a while before we expand cultural borders.

Optimally we want to get a worker out first since it will mean a big boost to both commerce and production. It is also generally best to skip Archery, since Axeman work a lot better and starting at Monarch level, going quickly to bronze working is a good idea. You can use Archery as a fall back if there is no copper. So ideally we would like to go Worker > Warrior and Mining Bronze > Working. The question is how does raging barbs and aggressive AI impact this plan. Unless someone can get to it before me, I will run a test tonight (10 hrs from now) to see how quickly the barbarians appear and hopefully determine how early will the AI attack an undefended, or defended by 1 warrior city. My guess is that leaving the warrior in the city we will not see the AI attack for a while. With aggressive AI, an open city may be too tempting. But we really should get this information before doing an overly conservative start. If we build defense units we do not need, while the competition is building up their production, we will start off way behind.

In my limited experience with Raging Barbs, Barb Axemen start showing up almost as soon as you discover Bronze Working. Therefore, I think Archery first will be safer, especially as research rates will be slow because of our -7+ maintenance penalty. An Archer fortified in a city on a hill should be able to repulse a multiple Axeman attack, and Archer fog busters/explorers will be more likely to survive longer than Warriors.

After Archery, Mining & BW. A build sequence of Worker --> ARCHER --> Archer --> Settler (maybe with a chop or two?) sounds good to me.

Yep. The hill would be a better spot, still picks up the 5 resources but (most importantly) gets the defensive bonuses. Is a slightly better production city as well as is shown here.

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/1697/civ4screenshot0019ip6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I played another test game last night as well. We have to get archery asap. The barbs will come thick and fast. If we don't have copper in our immediate radius we can't build axes. The AIs didn't attack an empty city either. My plan was to try and get the warrior 2xp from animals so he can get the cover (+25% v archery) promotion and send him back home. Hopefully by then another warrior will be produced in city #2. We ideally want two archers before a worker to protect them from attack (one CG promoted archer and one combat promoted archer).

Build queue warrior, archer, archer, worker

Research hunting, archery, hunting, bronze working.

Its a conservative start but the chances of getting wiped early or losing production (improvements/workers) are high otherwise.

Yep. The hill would be a better spot, still picks up the 5 resources but (most importantly) gets the defensive bonuses. Is a slightly better production city as well as is shown here.
And we don't lose any flood plain tiles either! Nice! :D

Yeah, a Worker won't be able to do anything except build roads until we discover Mining, so building a Warrior first is probably better if we research Archery first. I think, however, that we will only need one Archer (with Combat I promotion) before building the Worker because our (presumeably!)Cover promoted Warrior should be able to adequately defend a city on a hill until Axemen show up.

Awesome location on the hill.

My test game shows 6 turns for hunting 9 turns for Archery and 8 turns for Mining, for 23 total turns. A warrior should take 11 and growth should occur in 11. I think the worker then can be produced in 15, based on 3 excess food and 3 hammers, for a total of 26 turns. So you could go Warrior, Archer for 3 turns, Worker, finish Archer. We can then crank out out additional Archers while the city grows. You may have some turns into hunting already which will adjust this, but the idea is to get the worker out when mining completes. Not quite as safe, but it should be ok. If a barbarian shows up the worker can run away into the city.

Settled Osaka on the hills of course. Got hit with a maintenance of 10gpt!! Research drops to 40% (OUCH). Hunting comes in and Archery is selected.

Built another warrior (as yet unamed) who is exploring. Now here came the rub! Had the choice between a worker or another warrior here. If we went for a worker we're stuck at size 2 city and when he came out he'd have nothing to do! Insert an archer when we research archery, he'd still have nothing to do as we wouldn't have the military to provide cover for him. So....

I started another warrior. WHY :mad: ? I hear you all ask! Currently we have Warrior due in 4, Archery in 6 and we grow to size 3 in 8. I would say after 4 turns put 2 turns into worker and then an archer and then a worker. The 10gpt maintenance meant that researching techs has become a longer turn prospect (Mining will take 16 turns currently). Worker 15 turns currently and archer would take 12. If we grow to size 3 worker would take 10 turns and archer 8. So our worker will still appear just after mining I think and we have an extra defensive unit.

Pete got his promotions and is now back home. Here's a happy family snap.

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/755/civ4screenshot0020ns1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And here's a shot of Kyoto. This is actually going to be a decent whipping science city (ie whip granary/lighthouse/library asap) after it has the 4 resources hooked up. And I like the seas cows. We should also get a galley here as there may be a land link up north to somewhere.

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/1681/civ4screenshot0021xk5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

OK, who's up for another 20 and possibly the start of the raging barbarians?

Great start Ozbenno!:clap: Instead of building another Warrior, I think that I would have put those hammers into a Barracks. Nevertheless, another Warrior couldn't hurt. Losing Osaka to the Barbs because of an unlucky role would really suck!

I did think about a barracks but didn't as the extra warrior can be used as a guard, to explore and can be upgraded to an axe or sword once we have copper or iron. And I didn't want to lose on a bad day by the RNG Gods.

Also forgot to mention that Izzy must be to the north or east as her scout appeared (funnily enough) to our north-east!

I can play tonight, but if someone can grab it and post the new save within the next 4 - 4.5 hours (ie. 5:00 PM EST (GMT -5)), by all means do so. (I usually download the saves from work, as it is much more of a pain in the neck to do so from home.)

Great start! Good job! :goodjob: Osaka's location is a total dream, and the build order seems to have worked out okay. I actually prefer the warrior over the barracks to give us some exploration/upgrade options later. As a builder, I might have put some hammers into a Granary, but then I would have regretted it when the barbs came knocking. :lol:

I agree totally with the build suggestion for Kyoto: granary/lighthouse/library. Although if we wind up with religion, we might choose to sneak a monastery in there too, for the 10% science boost. The capital should become a high commerce city, and therefore a great science center.

I can probably take a turn after Lobsterboy, my schedule is fairly flexible for the next few days.

This is my official "I got it." I'll play 20 turns tonight, and post before noon tomorrow.

That is a bummer on the 10gp/turn maintenence, but all the teams will have to deal with it. The fact that we found a great location with quick income power will give us a huge advantage over anyone who quickly settled.

The disocvering of land near Kyoto really opens our strategic options. We should consider a Quick galley to grab the Stone. Getting the Pyramids would allow us to run representation with specialists in Kyoto.

I think the Library should take a higher precedence in the build order in Kyoto. It is just a gut feel, I have not worked any numbers, but the added science and the specialists should be worth more that the whipping advantage gained by the Granery or Lighthouse.

I think the Library should take a higher precedence in the build order in Kyoto. It is just a gut feel, I have not worked any numbers, but the added science and the specialists should be worth more that the whipping advantage gained by the Granery or Lighthouse.

I'm with you on this one. Was thinking about what tech should be after Bronze Working and had come up with Writing :crazyeye: . We can whip a library in Kyoto, get open borders with Izzy, which will allow us to check we have the necessary troops when we come a calling and, as she is the religious nutcase, allow her religion to spread to us!

Preturn (3400 BC)
Just to recap: Archery in 6; Warrior done in 4; Osaka grows in 8.


Turn 1 (3370 BC)
Buddhism is discovered in a distant land It's not Isabelle, so we must have another religious civ in the game. (My money is on Asoka.)


Turn 2 (3340 BC)


Turn 3 (3310 BC)
Kyoto completes: Workboat --> Workboat (22)
Rather than hook up the Fish right away, our little fishing boat sets sail to explore the islands to the N.


Turn 4 (3280 BC)
Osaka completes: Warrior --> Barracks (15) Two more turns until Archery, so I'll put a few turn into a Barracks, then switch.
Warrior # 3 is sent to explore N. I decide that our Warriors shall remain unnamed until promoted!
Warrior #2 finds Deer and some tundra in the South, so we're near the bottom of the map.
Our exploring Workboat discovers some Clams S of Cow Island.


Turn 5 (3250 BC)
Technology discovered: Archery --> Mining (16)
Build in Osaka switched to Archer (13)


Turn 6 (3220 BC)
Our exploring Workboat discovers more Clams N of Cow Island


Turn 7 (3190 BC)
Our exploring Workboat discovers Whales N of Stone Island
Osaka grows to 3Archer now due in 8


Turn 8 (3160 BC)
In the South, Worker #2 spies a family of Bears...

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/855/bearscn4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

...RUNAWAY!!!

Research drops to 30% :( Mining goes to 25!! :sad:


Turn 9 (3130 BC)
Research back up to 40%. Looks like we'll have to micromanage the research slider in the turns to come.


Turn 10 (3100 BC)


Turn 11 (3070 BC)
The Japanese cast their first nets into the sea. Sashimi! Yummy!
Barb # 3 encounters a Spanish Settler and his Archer consort in the North.


Turn 12 (3040 BC)
While travelling E along the Southern coastline, Warrior #2 lands next to a Bear.


Turn 13 (3010 BC)
Our Warrior is attacked... and is VICTORIOUS!!
While defending, Chokonut Warrior (1.3/2) defeats Barbarian Bear.


Turn 14 (2980 BC)


Turn 15 (2950 BC)


Turn 16 (2920 BC)
Osaka completes: Archer --> Archer(9)
Only 5 turns until Osaka grows, so I'll put a few turns into an Archer, and then maybe we should switch the build to a Worker.

Send Archer out to do a little fog busting/promotion earning.


Turn 17 (2890 BC)


Turn 18 (2860 BC)


Turn 19 (2830 BC)
Warrior #2 meets a Lion


Turn 20 (2800 BC)
The Lion attacks...
While defending, Chokonut Warrior (1.6/2) defeats Barbarian Bear.
Our brave Warrior receives a Cover promotion and is renamed Hideki.

Here's the world as we know it:

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/5181/osakazv4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/149/kyotoyy7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

There is still a little unexplored land to the SE and SW, but Osaka would appear to be on a mid-sized island. There is a bottleneck to the North that Spain has blocked us off from exploring. The fact that Isabelle settled her second city N of Osaka, suggests that there isn't alot of room up there for her to expand. Once again, happiness resources will probably be few and far between until we conquer Spain.

Oddly, still no sign of the humanoid Barbs! As I said above, I sent are Archer out to the W of Osaka to bust some fog, but I probably should have left him home in Osaka. He'll get promoted soon enough once the Barbarians do make their appearance.

Mining done in 2; Osaka will grow in 1.

Somebody pick it up!

Nice job Lobster!

What have we got guarding the homefront? I reckon the barbs will turn up in 3-5 turns. Maybe move the archer back home? If not, let the one building finish before starting a worker.

Interesting that Izzy is so close. Can't believe she didn't found a religion yet!! That's grounds for dismissal as Japan's religious advisor. I think once we get bronze and hook up some copper, we pay her a visit with a bunch of our finest axes (beefed up against the barbs of course) to give her dismissal notice in person.

Who's taking on the barbs for 15?

The Barbarians are Raging. Fog busting should be a priority along with hooking up our commerce resources. Bronze working in 10, none too soon, the populace is demanding Slavery.

T1. Started a worker in Osaka.
T2. Mining > Bronze Working (30)
T3. zzz.
T4. Warrior kills some panthers.
T5. Kyoto Workboat > Warrior (for the happiness).
T6. Hinduism FIDL. Isabella better get busy.
T7. Bears kill one of our warriors, on a hill. First Barbarian humans spotted - 2 warriors.
T8-10. zzz.
T11. Osaka attacked by 2 warriors, 2 more coming. I promoter the Archer to City Defender.
T12. Worker in 1, but I switch to Archer due to nearby hostiles.
T13. Kill another Barbarian Warrior. Back to the Worker.
T14. Barbarian does not attack, huh? Worker > Archer. Working on the Gems.
T15. Barbarian Warrior attacks and dies. 2 more appear.

135465

Watch out, I just noticed that is a Barbarian Warrior in the woods next to our worker.

I got the save.

Preturn: Rescues the worker

T1: Kyoto Warrior -> Workboat. Osaka Archer -> Barracks. Archer kills warrior.
T2: zzz
T3: The defence of Osaka beats three warriors.
T4: zzz
T5: The exploring warrior was killed by an archer. The Gem mine is completed. Putting our research to a steady 60%.
T6: Another warrior is killed.
T7: zzz
T8: Bronze working -> Pottery. Viva la revolution. Osaka Barracks -> Archer. There is Copper to the east and to the south. The gem road is completed, next task is the Gold.
T9: Killed an archer.
T10: Another archer is killed.
T11: Killed a warrior.
T12: Isabella adopts organized religion, and her citizen has begun worshipping strange gods.
T13: zzz
T14: zzz
T15: Arg, our mine was destroyed. Osaka Archer -> Settler.

Postturn: The bronze is outside the city radius, and will require new cities to hook it up. Pottery is 5 away at 50%, 7 at 40%. I believe that we need to create units that are specialized in defending outside our current city to keep the barbarians away from our resources, this is the reason why we lost the mine. At 1900BC we currently have the highest power score, lets keep that up.

Had a look at the save. For 6 cents...

Of the two sites for copper, I like this one for next city (eastern site).

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/227/civ4screenshot0014tn1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

We need 4 cities before we can build the palace and it is on the way to what I think our 4th should be (Madrid). It won't be on a hill so probably need to send the CG3 archer and maybe Pete as well. Will need another archer in Osaka to compensate. Once we can safely get this mined, we should stack some axes and pay Izzy a visit.

As McArine mentioned we're going to struggle to keep resources while the barbs before we can defend them with axes. The gold mine we can probably cover easily but the others we'll struggle. A cover promoted archer perhaps? Maybe after the gold mine we could chop the forest 1S to speed the settler?
Do we want another archer before the settler?

BTW, max experience you can gain from barbs is 10XP so the CG3 archer won't earn any more XP. Where safe, we can move him out to give the others some XP (ie when only warriors attacking).

OK Elandra and terminator, kick it along for 10 each.

I agree with Oz on the new city site and the chopping.

We would be better off researching either Mysticism for the border expansion or Sailing for a galley. We have plenty of commerce resources and it will be hard to protect cottages from the barbarians if we get a chance to even build one.

The reason for pottery, is to get to Literature, which will also help us expanding our borders.

Another thing, I think we should wait with the expansion until we have two settlers + protection ready, so we can begin building (whipping) a palace immediately, so we only have to suffer under heavy maintenance, for as short a time as possible.

I think that Sailing & Galleys can wait for a bit. We should not be in a hurry to settle the island sites near Kyoto until we get Code of Laws. Doing so will only increase our distance to palace maintenance fees when we do eventually move the palace. Once we do move the palace, we will still have a 10+ gpt maintenance fee from Kyoto.

I don't think we need to wait until we have 2 settler ready to go to found more cities. We need to found city #3 ASAP to get copper and Axemen. 2-3 Archers should be sufficient to defend it long enough to get the Copper hooked up. Since we have discovered Bronze Working, I expect that Barb Axes will be showing up imminently.

OK, I got it, and I'm playing now.

We seem to be at a fork in the road regarding both research and expansion rate. I agree with the three posts recommending a new copper city ASAP, and I agree that Literature is a high priority. So I'll take ten turns in that direction, and stop if anything comes up for broader discussion.

Also, can we designate city specializations? For instance, Kyoto=science, Osaka=production(defensive units), New city=production(offensive units), or whatever system you like. I'd like to hear about whatever system you each use to organize your personal games. I'm open to adopting anything but I think we should agree to adopt something.

I don't think we need to wait until we have 2 settler ready to go to found more cities. We need to found city #3 ASAP to get copper and Axemen. 2-3 Archers should be sufficient to defend it long enough to get the Copper hooked up.

Couldn't agree more! We need that copper to be able to get axes. Yes, our research will suck but we can then afford to get some workers happening and (most imporantly) get Madrid. Then we should whip a palace asap. Once we hook up the copper we should be producing only axes.

Since we have discovered Bronze Working, I expect that Barb Axes will be showing up imminently.

Not necessarily! Axes won't turn up until every civ has researched Bronze Working, the babarians have a city with copper and they hook it up. So unless they found a city on the copper down south, we shouldn't get axes (although IIRC, we haven't explored east of us so maybe out of there).

ROSTER (so far)
Ozbenno
Lobsterboy
Ngraner42
McArine
Elandra/Terminator3k - Jockeying for position

Okay, sorry to stop, but how much defense do I need to give our lone worker? I ask because I hit "enter" to start my first turn, and 3 barbs showed up, simultaneously threatening our city and our worker. (See screenshot) There is now a barbarian archer and warrior, both unpromoted, just one tile east of Osaka. And there is a barbarian archer, also unpromoted, just one tile west of Osaka. Our worker is defended by our geurilla I/II archer on the hill one tile south of Osaka. Do I need to pull him into the city until the barbs disappear?

My hunch is that the AI isn't smart enough to surround and then gang up on one worker. The barbs seem to be preparing to sacrifice themselves to our city defenders. But I'd hate to lose our only worker on a hunch. I've never played these barbarian settings.

Any suggestions? Do I bring the worker in, or leave him out? Or take a city defender out to defend the worker? We currently have 3 defenders in Osaka: two promoted archers and Pete the warrior.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8302/civ4screenshot0059ds5.th.jpg (http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0059ds5.jpg)

My hunch is that the AI isn't smart enough to surround and then gang up on one worker. The barbs seem to be preparing to sacrifice themselves to our city defenders. But I'd hate to lose our only worker on a hunch. I've never played these barbarian settings.

Any suggestions? Do I bring the worker in, or leave him out? Or take a city defender out to defend the worker? We currently have 3 defenders in Osaka: two promoted archers and Pete the warrior.

I reckon the archer is right but is much better to be safe in this game. I'd move Pete or a combat promoted archer (if we have such a thing) to the gold just to be sure.

Barbarians will attack the weakest target which is probably the gold mine.

Good luck!

Ok, will do. I'm playing again now...

#1, 1870:
- 3 barbarians appear (archer, archer, warrior)
- moved our combat I archer from Osaka onto the gold hill to defend our worker/archer stack-of-two, making it a stack-of-three
- started mine
- Pottery in 5, Osaka Settler in 21, Kyoto workboat in 8 but city is stagnant and not working our fishing boat (why?)
- moved Kyoto resident from coast to fish, growth in 1 turn
- Kyoto unhealthy (-1 food) and at happy cap (5=5). We need monarchy, pyramids, or trade resources soon. The fastest way is probably to build a road to Izzy but that will obviously have to wait.
- Research at 40%
- IBT: Good thing you advised me to move our combat archer out of Osaka to defend the hill. Both barbarian archers attacked our stack-of-three. Took damage (archer 1 is 2.7/3.0, archer 2 is 1.6/3.0). The combat I archer gained enough XP to qualify for a promotion, which I deferred.

#2, 1840:
- Worker, very grateful for his new archer friends, is frantically mining for gold
IBT- Suicide barbarian warrior attacks Osaka and dies

#3, 1810:
- Worker finishes gold mine
- Research up from 40% to 60%
IBT: More barbarians spotted near Osaka. One warrior and two archers (again).

#4, 1780BC:
- Worker and two escorts move to start gem mine
IBT: Barbs attack gem mining operation, killing our Geurilla I/II archer :mad:

#5, 1750BC:
- Pottery invented, scientists now studying the art of Writing (due in 13)
- 2 barbarian archers are poised to rain arrows down on our gem mining operation. The gem worker is defended by one wounded archer with Combat I. Inside Osaka, we have only Pete-the-warrior and our city garrison archer, which I don't want to move out of the city. I don't think Pete and the wounded archer are sufficient to defend the worker on open grassland. So, reluctantly, I pull our tired gem worker and his wounded archer escort back into Osaka for some rest and recuperation. :(
- IBT: Barbarian archer was killed while attacking Osaka :D, but next wave of barbarians are inbound. One archer is one square out, one warrior is two squares out, and one archer is three squares out. No way to get our worker back out to the gem mine without a beefy escort. :(

#6, 1720BC:
- Taking stock. We currently have a worker lolligagging in Osaka with a wounded archer (2.5/3.0), a healthy city-garrison archer, and Pete the warrior. And we have a steady inbound wave of barbarians threatening the undefended mine and preventing the gem mining. Not good.
- Switched Settler production to Archer. Archer in 6 turns. Osaka at happy cap of 4=4. Can whip archer for 2 population (too pricey), or move resident from oasis to forest to accelerate archer. Moved resident to forest; archer in 5 turns.
IBT: Barb archer killed attacking Osaka, barb warrior gains the gold mine hill

#7, 1690BC:
- Need to kill the warrior scouting out our juicy gold mine. Choices are the city garrison archer (not my favorite idea), the worker (ha ha), or the combat I archer who is still waiting for that deferred promotion. Gave him the chance to impress us all....slapped his Combat II ribbon on his uniform and sent him down the gold mine after the dusty warrior. Our gold is safe for at least one more turn.
- The remaining barbs are all checking out our western territory, so Pete and the worker snuck out east to check on the gem mine.
- The last lone unit, our brave and stalwart city garrison archer, is stuck in Osaka all alone. At least he doesn't have to share his beer anymore.
- IBT: 3 barb archers are inbound.

#8, 1660BC:
- Our wounded combat II archer on the gold mine spots 2 full-strength incoming barb archers on the next hill. He's brave but not stupid: he runs into Osaka.
- Pete and the worker start the gem mine.
IBT: Barb archers gain the gold mine hill.

#9, 1630BC:
- Need to kill the barb archer scouting our juicy gold mine. But no-one available to do it. Pete isn't brawny enough and is busy defending the gem mining, our combat I/II archer is too wounded, and that only leaves the city garrison who need to stay and defend. What to do? :confused: It seems a choice between Osaka and the mine. I choose to defend Osaka and leave the mine to fate.
- Oops, those archers on the mine could easily rain arrows on Pete and the gem miner. Pete and the miner run for cover in Osaka. Got 1 turn in on the mine though.
- Kyoto builds a workboat, sends it to fish, starts a new workboat (can't build Libary yet)
- Kyoto is unhappy and unhealthy but still growing. (happy -1, health -2)
IBT: Gold mine is pillaged by barb archers. :sad:

#10, 1600BC:
- Healing 2 archers in Osaka
- Pete and the miner resting in Osaka
- Osaka will build an archer in 4 and grow in 4
- Waves of barbarians have scrambled our terrain use in Osaka; who knows what tiles we are currently working
- Kyoto building a workboat (22) and growing slowly (37) while unhappy and unhealthy
- Research still at 60% even without the gold mine, but losing 2gold per turn with 8 gold in the bank. Writing in 12 turns but we can't sustain it.

Overall:
We are getting way behind the curve due to barbarian waves crashing on our walls and terrain. Need more units to fog bust, defend improvements, and ensure stable use of our terrain. Settling a new city for copper is great, but first we need enough troops to keep Osaka functioning. Then we need settler/worker escorts to make sure we can build and keep roads and mines clear to actually use the copper.

Thoughts?

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/337/civ4screenshot0060sx4.th.jpg (http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0060sx4.jpg)

I think that Elandra has a point, Osaka needs to pour out archers to fog-bust, defend and escort, it's the most obvious way to get properly underway.

Please give at least one of our Archers Guerilla I and II promotions and park him on the Gold mine. That should keep all but the luckies Barb Archer at bay.

Please give at least one of our Archers Guerilla I and II promotions and park him on the Gold mine. That should keep all but the luckies Barb Archer at bay.

Just one? Our last archer with Guerilla I and II was felled by two unpromoted barb archers attacking together. Admittedly it was on grassland, not hills. Is the extra hill defensive bonus enough? Note that we can only endow an archer with GeurillaI until they earn XP in the field by surviving a barb archer attack. And the barbs are consistently coming in 2-3 unit waves.

Just one? Our last archer with Guerilla I and II was felled by two unpromoted barb archers attacking together. Admittedly it was on grassland, not hills.

Well, if he wasn't on a hill, then the Guerilla promotions weren't doing him any good!

But,yeah, two is always better than one!

Until we get axes we have no way to defend any improvements not on a hill. As Lobster said, get an archer promoted to Guerilla II and park him on the new and improved gold mine. Don't try any more improvements, they'll just get pillaged.

As such, we should probably settle directly on the copper, even though long term it is a worse spot for a city. Then Osaka pouring out archers and 3rd city axes.

I agree that settling on the Copper is probably the way to go. With plenty of desert tiles and no access to the coast, it will never amount to much of a city. Nevertheless, we should probably do it to get us moving.

One other thing, Pete probably isn't going to get any more experience if we leave him in Osaka. I recommend fortifying him on the forested hill S of the Gold mine. If he survives, give him a Medic I promotion and bring him back to Osaka.

FYI: I will be away from home tomorrow and Friday and don't know whether I will have internet access or not. Don't be surprised if I don't show up on the boards until the weekend.

I also will be going on vaction from Aug. 24th - Sept. 4. I don't know if I'll be able to play during that period, but I'll let you know.

Terminator, you're up!!

@ngraner - you got your GOTM revenge. You beat me by about 10 (I think) years for a launch! I'm going to write my report tonight hopefully.

Terminator seems to have disappeared. ell over 24 hours so if we don't hear soon I'll pick this up as well.

OK, this is a Got It! I'll post a report later on today.

Having a look around the following things come to mind. Binary research might save me a turn or so so 0% it is! Need to get that gold mine back. Change Kyoto from work boat to Granary, will whip as soon as possible. Time to press enter.

Both archers sacrifice so I'm able to move 2nd archer, worker and Pete to the gold mine, should be finished by the end of my turns.

Granary whipped in Kyoto for 2 pop and our new Guerilla II archer, Hillbilly is born. I move him to the forested hill south of the gold for maximum effect (+150% defense).

Gold mine completes and I start to hook up the road. I promote our combat II archer to medic I as well.

Writing in 2, start the library whip in Kyoto. Settler in 9 in Osaka. Might be worth getting an archer out once the gold is hooked up (as we can then grow to 5) as an extra escort.

Roster

Ozbenno - Created the beast that is Hillbilly
Lobsterboy - UP
ngraner42 - On Deck
McArine - Madly thinking of silly names
Elandra - Got plenty of them I'm sure.
terminator3k - Hopefully checking in any day now!

Greetings!

My sincere apologies for being out of pocket for so long. They have been putting me through the paces at work. I'm convinced my company has to be in league with, well, this guy => :satan:.

I will get caught up over the next day or so. Just let me know if you want me to wait until this rotation is through or whether you want me to jump in, say, before NGraner and then go back to normal rotation.

Thanks for your patience. :thanx: From what I've read so far this one looks interesting.

Sincerely,

Terminator3K :scan:

I got it. Will play either tonight or tomorrow.

Greetings!

My sincere apologies for being out of pocket for so long. They have been putting me through the paces at work. I'm convinced my company has to be in league with, well, this guy => :satan:.

I will get caught up over the next day or so. Just let me know if you want me to wait until this rotation is through or whether you want me to jump in, say, before NGraner and then go back to normal rotation.

Thanks for your patience. :thanx: From what I've read so far this one looks interesting.

Sincerely,

Terminator3K :scan:

No dramas, if ngraner has no problems with it, jump in before him and that'll be your spot in the roster!

Preturn (1300 BC)
No gold in our coffers; drop research to 50% (+3/turn). Writing in 2.

Settler at Osaka done in 8.

IBT: Hillbilly is attacked by a Barb. Archer:
While defending, Hillbilly (Japaneses Archer) (2.6/3) defeats Barbarian Archer


Turn 1 (1270 BC)
Gold mine is connected. Worker moves to build road on Gem mine.


Turn 2 (1240 BC)
Technology discovered: Writing --> Animal Husbandry (10) @ 70% (-3/turn)
A toss up here. Could go for Sailing, but Kyoto will be building it's Library for a while. Decide to find Horsies.

Switch build in Kyoto from Workboat to Library (in 68 turns!!)

Pete takes over the defense of the forested hill S of the Gold mine. Hoping for a promotion...

IBT: Pete is attacked by a Barb. Archer:
While defending, Pete (Japaneses Warrior) (1.2/3) defeats Barbarian Archer. Way to go Petie!
Pete promoted: Woodsman I

Turn 3 (1210 BC)

Turn 4 (1180 BC)
Road on Gem mine completed just in time. Two Barb Warriors are now flanking it. Worker moves to build Mine on hill to NW.

IBT: A Barb Warrior goes for Pete instead of Osaka:
While defending, Pete (Japaneses Warrior) (0.3/2) defeats Barbarian Warrior. That was close!!
Second Barb. Warrior moves to the road on the Gems. (Bastard!)


Turn 5 (1150 BC)
Our Combat II/Medic I Archer (renamed "Doc") deals with the would-be Barb. pillager:
Doc (Japaneses Archer) (2.5/3) defeats Barbarian Warrior.

Library in Kyoto :whipped: for 3 pop. (Will regrow to 3 in 2). Drop Research to 0%.

A break from the Barbs! None currently in sight.


Turn 6 (1120 BC)
Kyoto completes: Library --> Workboat


Turn 7 (1090 BC)
Move Doc out of Osaka to help Pete heal.


Turn 8 (1060 BC)
Osaka completes: Settler --> Archer
Kyoto grows, and I add a Science Specialist. We can add another to stagnate growth there.

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/7171/kyotood0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Turn 9 (1030 BC)
Barb approaching from NW. Cancel Workers build orders to move him back to Osaka. Another Barb. Warrior is bearing down on Doc/Pete.


Turn 10 (1000 BC)
Barb-o-rama!! They are coming out of the woodwork!!

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6357/barboramaap0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Recommend that next player pull back Pete and Doc to join Hillbilly on Gold mine. That way, Doc can destroy the Barb Warrior to the E that is probably intent on pillaging the road on the Gem Mine. Pete and Hillbilly should be able to handle the other two Barbs coming in from the S and SE.

Animal Husbandry in 3 turns.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm2/Chokonuts_SG002_BC1000_01.Civ4SavedGame

I think we should let the archer fininsh, then whip a library in Osaka, and get the settler going asap. After the library, maybe another archer, and then the second settler should be prepared.

About Kyoto, I think we should let it stagnate very close to popping, and then get the extra sience. After the current workboat, I think it should start building settlers, for the two small islands to the north.

Tech wise, I don't think we are in a hurry to get sailing, we can't get away from Kyoto anyway, so I think we should consider going Math->Curr->CoL, unless there is one of the first techs that we desperately need, and I have missed.

My preference would be to complete the settler after the archer in Osaka to get the copper asap. Then whip a library.

I wouldn't settle the islands around Kyoto because of the maintenance issue (remember we're moving our palace to the mainland asap). I'd run as many scientists as possible in Kyoto (I'd employ another now actually).

Tech wise, I'd head for Mathematics --> Construction. We've also got to look at Civil Service and Machinery for our UU, so maybe CoL. Not sure of the value of Animal Husbandry at the moment (but if horses pop up I'd be wrong).

I'd also Open Border with Izzy to try and get a unit in to check out what she has. We may already be too late for an axe rush.

My preference would be to complete the settler after the archer in Osaka to get the copper asap. Then whip a library.
The settler is done and cooling his heals in Osaka waiting for his Archer escort. He'll need two Archers to escort him, so I think that we should build another before our expedition sets out. When the current Archer finishes, we should put him on the hill to the NW to allow our Worker to finish the mine there (only two turns left to finish). If he earns a promotion prior to his departure with our Settler, so much the better.

I wouldn't settle the islands around Kyoto because of the maintenance issue (remember we're moving our palace to the mainland asap). I'd run as many scientists as possible in Kyoto (I'd employ another now actually).
Deploying the other Scientist now won't speed up the aquisition of Animal Husbandry, so we probably don't need to do it until we start researching the next tech. (Math? Iron Working?) When Writing cam in, Iron Working and Alpahbet were 28 and 42 turns away, respectively. I chose Animal Husbandry firstly to find where the Horses are, and secondly so that we can pasture the sheep once our borders finally expand.

I'd also Open Border with Izzy to try and get a unit in to check out what she has. We may already be too late for an axe rush.
No rush on this until we actually have a unit we can send our exploring!

Didn't notice that the settler had completed sorry!

Employing the 2nd scientist was not about speeding up the current research (although that could be an added bonus) but about creating more GP points for a Great Scientist to create an Academy in Kyoto. There's nothing really needed to whip in Kyoto, so can easily employ 2 scientists here, as we're already over happiness limit.

I'd take the settler across with the archer currently in production and the CG3 archer and start building another archer before the library whip.

ngraner or terminator, whoever can grab first of you is up!

This is the official I got it post. I will try to play turns tomorrow.

Employing the 2nd scientist was not about speeding up the current research (although that could be an added bonus) but about creating more GP points for a Great Scientist to create an Academy in Kyoto.
Ah! Yes! That thought actually did cross my mind at the end of my turn set, but for some reason I chose to ignore it! :crazyeye: I'm not sure whether an Academy in Kyoto will be worth it. A GS may be more useful as a Super Scientist, or to lightbulb a tech for us. We'll need to do the calculations when the time comes.

I'd take the settler across with the archer currently in production and the CG3 archer and start building another archer before the library whip.
Good idea!

Just a reminder: I will be on vacation from 24.8 - 5.9. I probably will have Internet access during at least part of this time, but I may not be able to play should my turn come 'round again.

I can sum up these turns under disappointment, frustration and a lot of dead barbarians.

See details below:

1000 BC
Nothing - good to go

985 BC
Osaka archer (whipped) => archer
Pete moves to fog bust, bring forrest archer onto gold mine.
1 Barbarian warrior dies.

970 BC
Move settler, 2 archers and worker toward our next city.
3 Barbarian warriors die.
Pete moves to hilltop to further fog bust.

955 BC
Animal husbandry completed. Horses pop up southwest of Osaka. Start mysticism.
Pete digs in awaiting barb archer.
Go to 2 great scientists in Kyoto.
Settler and two archers continue to new city. Worker heads back to start gem mines for happiness issues.

940 BC
Izzy founds city near copper source. Looks bad so decide to turn around and head for copper in the south. Fish and deer there will help.
Pete takes out a barb archer. His fog busting will help lead the path of the settler to the new city in the south.

925 BC
Nothing much.

910 BC
Bonehead move - I whip the barracks in Kyoto and miscount the happy/unhappy. End result: We have a barracks but temporarily lost the second scientist.

895 BP
Hold up settler's progress south for archer to catch up. Barbs continue to rage.
Pete may be in trouble.

880 BC
Start chopping forest due north of Osaka.
Archer/settler move down.
Kill barb archer
Izzy founds Toledo right next to us. That wasn't very nice.

A moment of silence for Pete: He died at the hands of a barb archer protecting the civ that he loved.

865 BC
March south continues. Barbs die.

850 BC
March south continues. Barbs die.

Here's a picture of the march southward.
136545


Game is posted and I believe NGraner is up next. As soon as the whip effect wears off from Kyoto please get that scientist going again.

Izzy getting that copper source may hurt us :mad: . Hopefully not. It may actually attract some barbarians towards her not us. I think we're going to need construction or maybe iron working in order to take Izzy as we've been held up too long. If only Civil Service and Machinery weren't insanely far away. Too many tech we need not enough cash :lol: .

I think we have made it through the initial Barbarian onslaught. Tokyo is founded and we are working on hooking up the Copper.

Isabella will not give us Open Borders as we are her worst enemy (at +1 relations :( ). This means her religion of Hinduism will not spread to us. I think that leaves us no choice but to make a stack of Axeman and take that religion by force.

T0. Put a second scientist back to work in Kyoto.
T1. Put Archer on the Gems with Barbarian Warrior approaching.
T2. Killed Barbarian warrior.
T3. Cleared forest. Oracle BIFL. Tokyo founded, begins work on Workboat.
T4. Rushed Library in Osaka.
T5. Killed Barbarian Warrior. Meditation>Priesthood. Osaka: Library>Obelisk.
T6. zzz.
T7. Osaka: Obelisk>Archer.
T8. Killed Barbarian Warrior on our Gems.
T9. Began Copper mine. Killed Barbarian Archer.
T10. zzz.

136671

Elandra you should just pick up the game, I wont be able to play until saturday.

Okay, I played 10 turns. I assumed from previous posts that our goals were:
- research Math
- hook up Copper
- archers in Osaka, axes in the new city, science in Kyoto

All in all, the turns went well. I was able to keep the barbs at bay and make some modest gains:
685BC: Finished priesthood, started math. Osaka expands.
670: nothing
655: Kyoto Archer > Archer
640: Barbarian axeman and archer spotted, Osaka Archer>Archer (just in time)
625: Barabarian axeman killed our archer on the mine NW of Osaka but left himself wounded enough for our newly minted archer to kill him off before he could pillage the mine. Also started the copper road in the new city.
610: Barbarian archer died while attacking our gold mine S of Osaka
595: Moved wounded archer from NW mine back into Osaka to heal (note this mine is currently undefended), copper road connected to new city, moved worker N to start long highway to Osaka, moved medic archer out of new city to defend highway worker, and Great Scientist born in Kyoto :)
580: nothing
565: nothing
550: Osaka Archer>Archer


http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/32061/Civ4ScreenShot0061.JPG

I think there are at least three topics that warrant discussion before further play:
- Balancing Osaka's priorities (growth, production, or commerce)
- What to do with the Great Scientist
- What to build now in Osaka

Osaka is currently stagnant. I chose to leave the citizens working the gold and gems since we hadn't talked about city priorities. And it keeps our science rate up a bit. But I really believe that all cities should continually grow (unless making worker/settler). The long term advantage of working more terrain for more total turns outweighs any short term advantage of a higher science or production rate. Population potential is key, I think. So I'd rather stop working one of those mines in favor of the oasis to get our population growing.

For the GS, I vote for an Academy in Kyoto because the long-term science gain outweighs any short term advantages from the other choices.

And for Osaka's build order, my gut says we will fall behind the barbarian-axeman power curve if we don;t make a few more archers right now. We need groups of Archers, not single archers, to escort the highway worker and defend our improvements.

But that's just my two cents! I'm here to learn, so trash my thoughts at will. :D

I'll be able to play later tonight.

As for the GS, I would normally say Academy in Kyoto but as we're slipping a bit, what would be get for burning him? If it is a needed tech I would say burn baby burn!!

I also would grow Osaka, more for the whipping potential. We should be able to support happy wise a 5-6 sized city, so it doesn't make sense to have it limited to 2 at his stage. I would just grow it and use the excess to whip anything we urgently need (soon an army).

More archers and an axe or two are needed indeed.

The GS will give us Mathematics (which we are half way through anyway), so Academy it is, shaving 3 turns off Mathematics.

I move production off the gold mine to the oasis to grow Osaka.

I whip the work boat in Tokyo, to get a had start on the axe there. As an added bonus the whip will overflow and the work boat will mean getting the 1 pop back quicker.

Time to press enter.

Once Tokyo gets to pop 2 again I whip another axe (we should repeat this process ad nauseum).

The road to Osaka has 3 squares to go.

That was pretty much it.

Tokyo will grow again in 4 for another axe whip.

Osaka grows in 30, archer in 1. I think another worker would be better here next. I've MMed here to get Maths next turn, after this put the production out of the gold mine back to the second oasis for quicker growth.

Kyoto grows in 1, archer in 2. Something to whip here would be good, aqueduct then Hanging Gardens?.

Mathematics due next turn, Construction, Alphabet, Iron Working, Currency, Metal Casing or Code of Law all spring to mind as decent techs. Iron Working might be best for swords but Metal Casing and Code of Law are on UU path. Normally I'd say Alphabet but I don't think Izzy will trade with us.

The road should be finished next turnset. After this quick stream of axes (6-7 I think to finish Izzy). I would raze Toledo first and then maybe take one of the other cities before the palace whip in Osaka.

Roster Check

Ozbenno - Just done
Lobsterboy - OOP until 5/9
terminator3k - UP
ngraner42 - On deck
Elandra - Waiting
mcarine - Jumping in the queue whenever he can this weekend!!

I agree on another worker would be a good idea, and that we should wait with building settlers, and use axemen to raze Toledo, and expand into Cathys territory. When we have the palace on the mailand, we should definitely do our best to cover the land, to avoid barbs.

So continue spewing out axemen, and work toward our UU, wouldnt CoL be the fastest route?

Got the game. Goal is to play tonight.

Pretty boring turns. Need to watch Izzy's units moving about Toledo.

400 BC
No changes - Let's go

385 BC
Mathematics => Currency (to continue trek toward our UU)
Osaka archer => worker (to increase workable tiles)

370 BC
Kyoto archer => workboat (exploration)

355 BC
Our archer spots city of Santiago with 3 archers. Moving toward barb city for additional fog bust (Izzy seems to have our eastern front covered unfortunately).

340 BC
:sleep:

325 BC
:sleep:
Izzy has an interesting stack on our border of 3 archers and a chariot. We will watch this stack with great interest.

310 BC
:sleep:

295 BC
Road completed between Osaka and Tokyo.

280 BC
Barabarian archer gets a lucky die roll and kills one of our archers while receiving little damage.

265 BC
Barbarian archer dispatched. Worker begins pasture for sheep. Tokyo axeman => axeman

250 BC
:sleep:

Graner is up next. Keep the empire growing ...

Now we have (hopefully) the main barbarian menace controlled I'd go crazy at Osaka on worker improvements.

We've got two possible directions to take here. One peaceful, one not so peaceful.

Peaceful - we turtle and build up our two cities. Once Osaka is at (or even over) happiness limit, we either found one more city, or take barbarian city anmd start the Palace in Osaka, whipping as soon as feasible. Once we do this, grow some more until we get our UU, which combined with catapults, we use to take out Izzy, keeping most of her cities. Drawback, Izzy is too powerful by the time we get around to this.

War - We get/whip ourselves an army of axes/spears and come a calling on Izzy, razing her cities and taking her capital, at which point we whip the Palace either here or Osaka. Drawback, barbs will start to appear again in the razed lands.

Either way, getting the fourth city will kill us economically until we can get our Palace sorted out.

Simple turns, but the big news is that I notice we have company near Kyoto. I noticed some Barbarian borders. Once Kyoto expands again we will have access to more lands. We really could use a Forbidden Palace to expand in two locations. I believe the Forbidden palace works as good as a Palace for distance maintenance.

137150

I put Axeman in production leaning toward the attack Izzy approach, but nothing committal has occurred yet. We really could use stealing her religion. I also noticed that Izzy has the Pyramids. They would be nice too.

190BC. Worker completes, start Axeman. Barbarian Axeman drops by (It dies next turn attacking the well fortified city of Osaka.)

Hmmm! Don't seem to see anything in the screenshot posted, although looking for black borders on black background ain't easy.

mcarine as its nearly the weekend, do you want to grab the save next, then Elandra!

Are you sure that's a Barb border?? It looks like either Mali or Mongolia, or, (perhaps) Huayna to me.

Good eyes, I zoomed in to the screen shot real close and it looked brownish/reddish. In game it just looked black. That is even more interesting news.

Believe it or not, I got the save and will play sometime in the next 24 hours (I hope!)

A peaceful settlement with Isabelle?? No FREAKIN' way!! :) Chances are she hasn't contacted any other civs yet, so we won't take any diplo hits by declaring on her.

I will continue to fashion us an army of Axes and Spears, maybe sending a few out for fogbusting/promotion acquisition. We probably won't have enough to declare war for a few turns.

On my PC at home I can see border better. Looks like Mansu to me!

Preturn (100 BC)
Kyoto is building a Workboat, but it doesn't really need one. There are also two unhappy people not doing anything useful. Decide to switch to an Obelisk and :whipped: it for 2 pop. (Why not? It doesn't cost anything, and an extra culture point/turn couldn't hurt, right?

Everything else looks hunky-dory.

>ENTER<


Turn 1 (85 BC)
Kyoto completes Obelisk; resumes building Workboat.


IBT: Christianity FIDL


Turn 2 (70 BC)
Kyoto completes Workboat --> Workboat.


Turn 3 (55 BC)
Osaka completes Axeman --> Spearman
Tokyo completes Axeman --> Spearman

IBT:Great Lighthouse BIDL


Turn 4 (40 BC)

IBT:While defending, Japanese Axeman (4.7/5) defeats Barbarian Archer
While defending, Japanese Archer (2.8/3) defeats Barbarian Archer
Toledo expands, so Izzy will be able to mine Copper soon.


Turn 5 (25 BC)


Turn 6 (10 BC)
Osaka's borders expand. Only one tile of unbusted fog in the West.


Turn 7 (5 AD)
Here's an interesting development:

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/5961/judaismspreadshp2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Judaism spreads: Tokyo Judaism?? Most curious. Izzy must have founded it. I DO NOT convert.


Turn 8 (20 AD)
Realize that Tokyo doesn't have a Barracks! Switch build from Spearman to Barracks (in 5).


Turn 9 (35 AD)


Turn 10 (50 AD)
Technology discovered: Currency --> Masonry (6)
Osaka completes Spearman --> Axeman

I chose Masonry because it is a prerequisite for Construction (Catapults), which I think we will need to take out Izzy.
I also switched the build in Kyoto to a Market. Unfortunately, we can't whip it. Perhaps whipping the Obelisk was a mistake. Sorry. The whip weariness should end in 5 tunrs there. I remove a Scientist from Kyoto, so that it will grow faster. This adds another turn to Masonry, however. This also will delay the birth of our next GS somewhat.

Our border will expand next turn, so maybe we'll see who is SE of Kyoto.

Here's an overview of Osaka and environs. Notice that Izzy has build another city E of Toledo (which is now Jewish):

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/1852/overviewnc7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Hey ho, I'll grap the save tomorrow. Plan for my turns:

Build market in Kyoto.
And continue to expand our military, we are far from Cathy in power.
I'll keep researching masonry unless you can convince me otherwise.

Comments, thoughts?

How long would Iron Working take? Although, unless its in our borders already we're not in a position to expand to take it. Construction is probably the best.

Preturn: Some troop movement.

T1: zzz
T2: zzz
T3: Tokyo barracks completed -> spearman. Taoism fidl
T4: zzz
T5: Tokyo spearman-> axeman
T6: Masonry -> Construction 26 turns. Osaka Axeman -> axeman.
T7: zzz
T8: Isabella converts to Judaism, and we do as well.
T9: zzz
T10: zzz

Postturn: Isabella will accept open borders.
I believe Olmec can be grapped with a minimum of loss, giving us the option of building a palace. We should agree on this, since it will cripple our economy. I think that we can whip the palace within 10 turns in Osaka.
Construction is in 22 turns at -1(30%). 27 turns at +3(20%). 53 turns at +11(0%).
The barbarians has an archer and a worker in Olmec.
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1284/civ4screenshot0003so0.th.jpg (http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0003so0.jpg)

I think its my turn next, but I have to go out of town for a few days. Please skip me this time around.

Enjoy the game!

OK I'll grab it tonight!

Not sure if we should grab Olmec, I'll have a look.

OK we attack Olmec. Our axe beats their archer and its ours. Do we keep it? I say no and raze it. Currently we are 13gpt maintenance at Osaka and Tokyo and running at 11gpt at 0% research. Therefore, if my maths serves me right w would be probably running at -2gpt at 0% research. Palace costs 160 hammers. We have 8pt at Osaka, so would take 20 turns (its a national wonder so whipping is twice price as well). The money we get from Olmec should get us most of the research to Construction and then Izzy is toast.

We pop A GS in Kyoto. Will lightbulb sailing (100 beakers) but will give 1 hammer and 6 beakers per turn so I merge him. Construction goes down from 8 to 7 turns (on 100% research) and market from 105 to 68 turns.

Now regretting not burning sailing as a barb galley sails up and will pillage our fishing nets.

Construction is in 4 turns. Switch all production to catapults after this. Once we have 4 (I'd use the whip to speed this up) we should attack. This is our current army. 2 archers and a warrior are in Kyoto.

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1936/civ4screenshot0002dt7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

An here's the most laughable battle plan ever seen!

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/9553/civ4screenshot0003nz7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

4 axes/2 catapults in each of the attack groups should easily take each city. The blue circles are where we should have our spears for the chariot counter attacks (2 in each).

If we raze each city and pillage the resources it should give us enough money in the bank to cope with taking Madrid as our 4th City. Actually, if she has more than one holy city we should consider taking that as well (which would entail a palace building break in the war.)

Is that a plan or what? :crazyeye:

Yup, I think it is.

Good choice not taking Olmec. The only reason to keep it would have been for Barb control, but we've probably got that covered.

Who's up?

OK roster is as follows:

Ozbenno: Razer not keeper
Lobsterboy: Up
terminator3k - on deck
ngraner42 - to follow
mcarine - waiting for the weekend
Elandra - just waiting

I'm kind of swamped at the moment, and seeing as I played only two turns ago, terminator or ngraner should feel free to pick it up and play. Otherwise, I may not be able to get around to playing until tomorrow (Fri.) night.

Come on, come on, it's been 7 days since somebody played, that means we can skip two players on the roster. Get going, I want to see some action, aaarrgg.:whipped:

Agreed, somebody grab it. We're nearly at the point we can actually do some serious warring!

I will check with Terminator3k about grabbing the save tonight and I will post strategy thoughts. One of us will go ahead and play.

Agreed with Ozbenno's plan. 3.5 Catapults ready for the Terminator to do what he does best.

T3. Rushed a market in Kyoto. There was some complaints regarding what they called "cruel oppression", but most citizens were pleased with the results.

T4. Started Aqueduct in Kyoto. Construction > Sailing. Kyoto's cultural borders were not expanding; I am taking a gamble that it is due to not having sailing, otherwise I would have went for COL.

T10. No luck with the Sailing. I have no idea why Kyoto is not expanding. Started COL.

The reason that Kyoto is not expanding is that a city cannot expand its cultural borders beyond shallow waters.

Go get em Terminator

In SGOTM1 we discovered that cultural border could cover ocean squares. Is the distinction that ocean adjacent to coast can have cultural coverage. I also notice that some ocean squares show food production and some don't, which could be the same distinction. But, there is an ocean tile to the SE of Kyoto showing 1 food and 1 commerce, that should be covered by our culture. The rule may be more complex.

Did a search, and the general belief is that culture can spread two tiles away from a landmass. So we can get coastal, and next to coastal. Beyond that it is deep ocean, that can't be covered by cultural borders.
But if we grow large enough culture, the cultural borders can "reappear" on the other side of deep ocean, if those tiles are next to coastal.
Specifically look at the image on the second page.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=176915

I have the save. I will play in the next 24 or so.

500 AD: WAR DECLARED ON SPAIN!!!!!
Our troops on hill NE of horses engage Izzy's mini stack of 1 chariot and 3 archers. All destroyed but lose one axeman in a bad die roll (97% to win and he gets pimped [pimp] ). Troops also mobiized from Osaka.

515 AD:
Put two axemen on Izzy's horses. Move remaining troops toward Toledo.

530 AD:
Plunder 1 whole gold piece from Izzy's horses. Bombard Toledo. Troops move in next to Toledo.

545 AD:
Bombard Toledo.

560 AD:
Izzy chariot destroys a gem mine but is retired from the field of battle by one of our spearmen left in reserve in Osaka. Toledo defense brought to zero. Begin bombardment of Santiago.

575 AD:
STRIKE! A strike takes place due to loss of gems/commerce/gold.

Things look grim for the empire when ...

Toledo leveled with 128 gold captured. :scan:

Izzy loses 2 archers, a spearman and a chariot. We lose one cat.
Note that taking out Toledo did not take out their access to copper. Not good.

Strike averted!

Santiago bombarded. Izzy continues to dig in with 3 archers, 1 chariot and 1 axeman.

590 AD:
2 Izzy chariots killed trying to sneak into our territory. Move main army toward Santiago and continue bombardment. Place axeman and two spearman over gems so our 3 workers can rebuild mine.

605 AD:
Troops close in on Santiago. Gem mine rebuilt.

620 AD:
Troops heal. Santiago feels the tension and knows something is coming soon.

635 AD:
Troops are one turn away ...

650 AD:
With only 1 cat lost, Santiago is CAPTURED! Why captured? Well ...

1. It gave us our 4th city.

2. While still in the 5 turns of anarchy, we can start building the palace in Osaka.

3. Izzy was willing to sue for peace. So when she offered all of her available gold (180 lump sum, 3 per turn for 10 turns), I jumped at the chance.

Here's the latest picture of the empire.

138241

Izzy/Chokonut War I Report

Izzy

One city razed.
One city captured.
Horses pilaged.
5 chariots, 1 axeman, 1 spearman and 8 archers lost :ar15:

Chokonuts

One gem mine pillaged (but rebuilt).
1 axeman and 2 cats lost.


My recommendation is that we accelerate the palace build by chopping a few outlier forrests from Osaka and push the tech slider as best as possbile while we have a little bit of gold in the treasury.

Will this work?

Nice work!

I'd push research down to 0% straight away and get chopping. Whip it as soon as it possible. Heal the army and get cracking at Izzy again. This time we can keep any decent cities.

Mcarine, it being the weekend, you up?

Now we're rocking, I'll play tomorrow.

Thoughts and plans:
Whip aqueduct in Kyoto when it only takes two populations, and start Coloseum.
Will complete CoL, then Agriculture, and start Civil Service.
With 417 gold I'd use some of those for 60% research (-22 pr.turn, CoL in 5.).
Will cut at least three outlying forest for Osaka, and whip asap.
Reexplore the territory to the east, to determine our next attack.
Continue the build of our army.
First build in Santiago: barracks.

Thoughts comments, especially about research %.

Nice work. Too bad we didn't pillage Izzy's copper mine, though.

You plan looks good to me McArine.

My only comment would be to go straight for military units rather than than a barracks in Santiago. I agree with continuing the pust to COL, the courthouse in Kyoto will really help.

How many turns until we could reasonably expect to get the palace once Santiago comes out of rebellion? Need to make sure we don't put the research too high and go bust!

Research plan seems good. I'd throw alphabet in there somewhere as we may want to pause the second spanish war for some tech extortion.

T1: Whipped Aqueduct in Kyoto.
T2: Aqueduct -> Colosseum in Kyoto. Tokyo Axe -> Archer.
T3: zzz
T4: zzz
T5: CoL -> Agriculture. Switch Kyoto to courthouse.
T6: Tokyo Archer -> Axe.
T7: Osaka whippes palace.
T8: Agriculture -> Civil Service. Osaka palace -> Axe.
T9: Osaka Axe -> Axe.
T10: zzz

Postturn: Kyoto can whip courthouse but has 6 turns of :-( left, this should be done asap.
Osaka needs a lot of MM, so it can start growing to a serious size, we need to start explointing floodplains and oasis.
I think we should start our second war, and take at least two cities.
Civil service is in 25 at 60% -18gpt. 42 at 30% 0gpt. We have 155 gold.
We should consider a market in Osaka.

Once we can whip the courthouse in Kyoto, we should be saving some cash to pick up the research. Agree on the war front. We should look at a holy city or two.

Lobsterboy/Elandra?

If neither post a got it by tomorrow I'll pick it up.

I've got it, and will try to play tonight.

Inherited turn (800 AD)
Firstly, nice job fog busting guys! :)

I like the idea of exhorting Tech from Izzy, so switch research from Civil Service to Alphabet (12 turns @ 50% (-13 gpt)).

I drop the Scientist in Kyoto to allow the city to resume growth. I'll whip the Courthouse there when the pop expands.

Because we can't declare war with Spain for a few turns yet (not sure how many), I sign an Open Border agreement with Izzy to see do a little scouting. We get a look at Seville, which is the Jewish Holy City!

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/8484/sevilleuo6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

As I recall, there are two Archers and a Spearman defending. (I lost the screenshot that showed the defenders.)

I also trade Gems for Sugar, thinking that it will put one more happy citizen in Kyoto, but forget that we don't have access to a trade route with our former capital. :smoke: Bummer.

Time to get going... >ENTER<

IBT:
Near Tokyo: While defending Japanese Spearman (1.6/4) defeats Barbarian Archer.
Our Peace deal with Isabelle expires (we lose 3 gpt).


Turn 1 (815 AD)
We get a look at Cordoba, which is a little more heavily defended than Seville:

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/2044/cordobadw3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

We also discover a Spanish colonial party. Hmmm... It appears Izzy is interested in settling another city on our borders!

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/7404/spanishsettlersww1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Turn 2 (830 AD)
OK. I've seen enough. Begin pulling back our scouting Axemen in preparation for war.


Turn 3 (845 AD)
Tokyo completes Axeman --> Axeman (6)
Santiago completes Axeman --> Barracks (6)
A Barbarian Swordsman pops up S of Santiago. Our newly minted Axeman moves to intercept.

Isabelle founds Salamanca right where I expected that she would.

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/9197/salamancaxn3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

IBT:
Near Santiago: While defending, Japanese Axeman (5.0/5) defeats Barbarian Swordsman.


Turn 4 (860 AD)
Osaka completes Axeman --> Catapult (7)


Turn 5 (875 AD): :sleep:

Turn 6 (890 AD)
Kyoto grows, and I :whipped: the Courthouse there for 2 pop.


Turn 7 (905 AD)
Kyoto completes Courthouse --> Galley (21) Maintenance costs down from 15 to 6 gpt.
Research bumped up to 60% (Alphabet in 4)


Turn 8 (920 AD)
Hinduism spreads to Osaka.


Turn 9 (935 AD)
Tokyo completes Axeman --> Axeman (7)
Santiago completes Barracks --> Axeman (6)

We finally meet our neighbor to the SE of Kyoto ...

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/4301/bismarcktm3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

SURPRISE!! It is Bismarck!!! And he is KICKING OUR ASS!! - 9 cities and out teching us hugely!!


Turn 10 (950 AD)
Chichen Itza BIDL

Well, we can FINALLY cancel our deals with Isabelle and declare war. (I guess my idea to do some scouting wasn't such a good one after all.)

Isabelle now has Horse Archers, and another Settle party is en route to east of Osaka:

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5910/morespanishsettlersrt7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Isabelle has also reinforced Salamance with a few Archers, but it's borders have not expanded yet.

Our troops are in position to declare War. It's "GO TIME",so...

WAR DECLARED WITH SPAIN!!

First, I deal with that Settler party:

Japanese Spearman (2.6/4) defeats Spanish Horse Archer.
Japanese Axeman (3.3/5) defeats Spanish Chariot.
Spanish Worker captured!

An Axeman is moved to cover the wounded Spearman, and the rest of our party moves to the copper mine to pillage it next turn. DON'T FORGET

At Salamanca, Izzy's Archers aren't yet fortified, so I take a chance with our Combat I, Shock I Axeman:
Japanese Axeman (1.2/5) defeats Spanish Archer.

Our other Axemen outside of Salamanca have Combat I, CR I promotions, and have only ~ 32% odds against the fortified Axemen there, so I'll wait for the Catapult that is due from Osaka in two turns.

I hope I've timed the war right. Our stack approaching Cordoba could use a Spearman for defense. There is one on the way north from Tokyo, but it won't arrive for 5-6 turns. I've set Spearmen to build in Tokyo and Santiago to deal with the inevitable pillaging Horse Archers Izzy will likely send our way.

Alphabet comes in next turn. We can either resume researching Civil Service (40+ turns), or switch to Iron Working (~ 15 turns?). Isabelle has discovered Iron working, so if you spot any more mines, pillage them. (No doubt she has one outside of Madrid next to her Horsies!.

Isabelle doesn't appear to have any other cities, so I believe Madrid will be the northern terminus of her empire.

Good luck folks!

Yeah, lets get rid of Izzy.

If we're getting behind on troops, we could whip a couple, to catch up.

I think we should only accept peace with Izzy if we can get a lot of tech from her.

On that note, I think we should go for civil service, and try to get Iron working from Izzy.

Agree with only peace for techs. Do we need Iron for Samurais. If so, IW might be worth it. Whip whatever troops we need.

Elandra is UP.

Well, I would love to carry on the great Spanish war, but I'm afraid I have to bow out of this game. Life events have conspired to rob me of all my free time. I'm sorry to drop you by one player. Best of luck with the game! :goodjob:

Sorry to hear it Elandra. We'll do this one for you ;) .

Got it, will be able to play tomorrow.

Alphabet is in first turn and I switch back to Civil Service. Pillage the copper and whip the galley in Kyoto. I lose a battle at 98.6% against a pillaging axe :confused: .

Cordoba is bombarded to 0, sacrificaial catatpult kills an axe at 25% so some karma is restored. :) . We take Cordoba for 151gp.

We meet Mao, he is even more advanced than Bismark.

The Holy City of Seville is bombarded to 0 and this time the sacrificial cat withdraws.

And that is that for ten turns. Izzy will give us Iron working for peace and I would take it at this stage, then prepare for the final push, with some swords in tow (if we have iron anywhere).

Shall we revert to whoever can pick it up and play does to speed this along a bit?

Ok, I have it.

Made peace with Izzy at the beginning of the turn. Bureaucracy came in at the end of the turn giving us our first tradeable tech. We should get what we can for it. It is probably time to resume the war with Izzy, with some Swordsmen coming on line. Madrid will be a great prize. We can then work on filling the continent with cities.

T0. Move exploratory Workboat out. Put Merchant to work in Kyoto. Took Oz's suggestion and made peace for Iron Working and a little gold. It was a close call, I would have liked to press on to Barcelona and we have high unit upkeep, but we could use the Iron and needed to do some healing.

Iron:
138958

T1. Cordoba comes out of revolt and starts a Barracks. Meet Mansa; he is the top dog so far. Don't look at the tech trading screen, it is too depressing.

T5. Seville comes out of revolt and starts Lighthouse. It is getting 5 culture/turn from an Academy and Religion.

T6. Izzy drops a new city in next to the Copper. Bold, but silly :smoke: . Hopefully it will quickly grow to size 2, so we can keep it.

138959

T10. Bureaucracy completes. We have a tradeable tech! I switch to Paper and start the revolt.

138960

My suggestions for the next ten turns:

Whip colosseum in Kyoto when they quit being angry from last time.

Seville is definitely a research city, with its academy, so I would start building cottages in the remaining city tiles.

Prepare the destruction of Izzy. Build a couple more catapults and axemen for a new stack of units, that should be used to take the two south cities. The stack in Seville should be able to take Barcelona as it is, and then join with the south stack to take Madrid.

I would switch Tokyo to build settlers when the swordsman is finished. To begin expanding, and the city is so far away from the front, that the travel time for new units is getting large. I think we would gain more by building settlers there.

Research wise, we have to start focusing on getting off our little island, paper would be good for trade, but what use is it when they won't give us anything good for it. I would switch to Metal casting, and go for astronomy.

About trading tech and religion, we should switch to Confusianism as soon as we get the chance, to get on better terms with Mansa and Bismarch.

If Izzy wants peace when she only has Madrid left, I think we should try getting more tech out of her, and give her another ten years of existence. Especially calendar would help us, if she wont give it, we should just remove her, I'm looking forward to getting my hands on Madrid, with all those resources.

If I get the time this afternoon I would like to play 10 turns. I'm moving next weekend so I wont have time to play then. If I have'nt posted by 19.30 PM GMT +2, I have'nt played, and cannot play. Thats in 8 hours from now.

Go for it Mcarine if you can!

We need to get to Optics/Astronomy quickly. I would keep researching Paper and see if we can get Metal Casing and Compass for it from Bismark and Mansu. I'm assuming we'll need galleons to get to our next target. That sadly may make our samurais obselete before we can use them.

I'd raze the copper city again as it can't pay for itself.

T1: Meet Kublai Khan. Peace treaty expired, war declared on Izzy.
T2: Confucianism spreads in Kyoto, viva la revolution. Salamanca is ours. Osaka market ->Catapult.
T3: Mansa gives us Horseback Riding. Islam founded in distant land. Murcia is destroyed.
T4: zzz
T5: Sevilla Lighthouse -> Library. Bombarded Barcelona.
T6: Osaka Cata->axe. Santiago Sword -> Cata. Barcelona taken.
T7: zzz
T8: Cordoba Sword->Spear. Coloseum whipped in Kyoto.
T9: Kyoto Coloseum -> Lighthouse. Osaka Axe ->Settler. Tokyo Sword -> Settler. Santiago Cata-> Axe.
T10: zzz

Postturn: Our forces are ready to assault Madrid, one unit needs healing, but the crusade can begin as postturn.
Paper is in 6, and we have three potential trading partners :-)
No more postturn has to catch my bus.

I'll just finish my postturn from memory, good thing that I packed before I played.

I believe we have enough forces to crush Izzy, that's why I switched two cities to settlers, so we can expand on our island. And, we should of course have a dotmap for the remaining cities :-), who will give the first suggestion?

Madrid is a definite must keep, with all those resources it's a wonder Izzy didn't chrush us.

AFAIR Barcelona has an academy, so its also good potential for a research city, with Sevilla, so focus on cottages, librarys and so on.

I didn't tech trade during my turns because when I started, the best trade I could get would have lost us ~1500 tech points, so I decided to wait until we were on better terms with our new trading partners. In turn three when the switch to confuscianism was done, our trading partners all had our tradeable tech. :-(

The lighthouse in Kyoto should of course be whipped at some point, after that, I think we should focus on getting as many surplus citizen to get GPP.

Research we should try to trade Paper with Calendar and Metal casting, and whatever else will get us closer to Astronomy. Of course we should take anything we can get. After Paper I would start focusing on getting to Astronomy, and improve our military. We're already so far behind that we don't have time to get any of the cultural and economic, other than by trade. And the purpose of the game is also a military win.

Should we consider city trade to get to the other islands sooner?

Hmm, these things tend to get longer and longer.

Who's next???

Looks like I'm up again so I'll play tonight.

1220: Started march toward Madrid.

1226: March continues ... :sleep:

1232: March continues ... :sleep:

1238: March continues ... :sleep:

1244: Spanish cat lost in an attack of our stack. Bombardment of Madrid begins.

1250: Research of paper completed. Metal Casting now underway. Madrid's defenses dropped to 0%. Just waiting for remaining troops to catch up to main force outside of Madrid.

1256: Mao first to circumnavigate the globe. Settler produced in Osaka with another put into production on his heels. Trade Paper for Metal Casting and Polytheism from Bismark. Also trade Paper for Compass and 80 gold from Khan. Researching Machinery.

1262: We take Mardrid for a price of 2 of our cats to their 6 archers, 1 spearman and 1 cat. Izzy is no more. :cheers:

1268: Angkor Wat built in far away land. Switch from despotism to representation.

1274: Edo is founded on the west coast with access to iron, wheat and clams. Here's a picture. 139232

1280: Snooze. :sleep:


High level shot of the main continent. 139239


Final thoughts:

- Should we switch to no state religion? All of our newly acquired Spanish cities have Hinduism, Judism, or both. None of our cities have our current state religion of Confucianism except Kyoto. Keeping Confucianism certainly gives us a bonus in relations with all the remaining Civs except Mao, but keeping Confucianism means no culture border growth in the formerly Spanish cities without a library or obelisk. I would vote for going to no state religion for now until Confucianism spreads to the main continent or until another Civ demanded that we swtich back.

- We have two settlers in productions (Osaka and Tokyo). I assume one city site would be on or within 1 square of our spearman (Man with pointy stick) south of Edo. The other could either be near the iron on the south east part of the continent or sandwiched in between Cordoba, Osaka and Santiago to work the available but unused tiles located there.

- Need to produce a few more workers as time/resources allow.

- Need to get workers over to Edo to build farm for wheat and mine for iron.

- Need to keep on the tech path to get to astronomy.

Thoughts?

Not sure who is up next.

We crushed her, on to the next!

I think we should have a city at all three locations Terminator3k suggested.

About religion, I think it depends on our ability to trade tech, if our new friends have Machinery we could switch to no/another religion, if not I think we should keep it. Whatever will get us fastest to astronomy.

We need to be careful how many more cities we found as we have to be able to support them and keep up research. I'd just found one more south of the spear.

We just need Machinery and Optics now for Astronomy. We should start building up catapults and samurais (once we have machinery) and then whip a fleet of galleons up once we get Astronomy. Get a caravel out as soon as we get Optics as well to see where we're sailing to.

As for religion, I'd swap to no state religion as we've got nothing to trade at the moment. Get the borders expanded on Madrid and we've got a powerhouse (7 resources???).

Lobsterboy is up!

I got it. I'll try to play tonight, but might not be able to get to it until tomorrow night.

Played my turns, and the save is up on the Progress and Results page.

Not much to report. We met two more civs - Huayna (Buddhist) and Hatshupsut (Christian) (Is that all of them, or is there one more?). Egypt is N of Germany. We haven't found any of Huayna's cities yet. Unfortunately, neither will trade with us because of our current religion.

Huayna is closest to us in score - only ~ 30 pts. higher. We also are dead last in the Power graph. Huayna declared war on Mali during our turns.

Kyoto would appear to be an island in a sea almost, if not completely, surrounded by a continent containing the other civs. (There may be an outlet to the ocean in the NE.)

I did not found any new cities. I didn't see the point of increasing our maintenance costs. We do have a Settler, however, in place to found a new city on the site in the SW at an