Does anyone want to post to the spoiler thread?

I'm not pretty sure - and not have Civ4 running on my work computer for check in saves - but, if I'm remember correctly, is quicker (*) to obtain grenadiers then cavalrymen ... :mischief:

P.S. : However - I feel that we are very late in launching the assault for our bridgehead on main continent ... :cry: ... bet let's do the best !! :)

It's about 10% more to research MT than Chemistry. But Cavalry are 25% stronger and have an extra MP. Obviously the strategy changes if our target has riflemen. I think MT is the way forward personally.

nfora what are you thinking of going for?

In regard to your second point, I agree. But I think it is more the customised aspect of the game that has caused that, high maintenance crippled us for a while.

We have to get on track though, ONLY target is quickest conquest....let's go:ar15:

I'm thinking of starting with MT, then going for chemistry, because we will need both before we're done, but rifles come late enough that having some cavalry at least in our initial assault (on egypt?) will be helpful.

ok to start: grabbed guilds and music and 350g for astronomy for KK, since music is on the path to MT. grabbed nationalism and 10g from mansa for the same.start us on MT (32 turns at 0% science). nabbed OB with HC. gave bismark clam sheep wheat and sugar for pig dye incense and silk. clears any happy or health problems we had. get a GA in Madrid, leave him for a culture bomb in our beachhead. grabbed a great prophet in kyoto... there aren't really enough cities with our other religions to make it worth carting it over for a shrine, so i save him. he can help us with philosophy if we want. germany asks us for astronomy. I wish now i'd checked to see if he had it.... I don't see too much harm in this, but I told him no in order to trade it to him. Unfortunately, he fears we are becoming too advanced, so he won't help us out just yet. I start moving a few troops to westside as a staging area... it's as good as any. and we get another great artist in madrid. i leave him with the other one.... I got MT and whipped the forbidden palace.

I made a few mistakes... not giving in to bismark sucked... we can get some gold from him I think. I also waited several turns longer than I could've to whip the forbidden palace. We're ready to settle stone island next turn. I built up our improvements somewhat following the plan. we might be able to cancel our resource deal with bismark and renegotiate it now... i believe i hooked up some pigs down south. we've got a few cats done with more on the way, but we still need more galleons. I've got a couple of galleys keeping an eye on hattie. She's still at LBs.
sorry this isn't the best of reports, but with my classes in full swing again I'm short on time. It's also been quite a while since the last time I played :/

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1508 AD to 1544 AD:

Turn 308, 1508 AD: Buddhism has spread in Berlin.
Turn 308, 1508 AD: You have discovered Guilds!
Turn 308, 1508 AD: You have discovered Music!
Turn 308, 1508 AD: You have discovered Nationalism!

Turn 310, 1520 AD: Ananda has been born in Kyoto!
Turn 310, 1520 AD: Leonardo da Vinci has been born in Turfan!

Turn 311, 1523 AD: Kyoto celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 311, 1523 AD: The borders of Madrid have expanded!
Turn 311, 1523 AD: Kublai Khan has completed The Spiral Minaret!

Turn 312, 1526 AD: Kyoto celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!

Turn 314, 1532 AD: The borders of Osaka have expanded!

Turn 315, 1535 AD: Coppertown celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 315, 1535 AD: You have trained a Galleon in Westside. Work has now begun on a Caravel.
Turn 315, 1535 AD: Li Po has been born in Madrid!

Turn 316, 1538 AD: Coppertown celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!

Turn 317, 1541 AD: You have discovered Military Tradition!

ok to start: grabbed guilds and music and 350g for astronomy for KK, since music is on the path to MT. grabbed nationalism and 10g from mansa for the same.start us on MT (32 turns at 0% science). nabbed OB with HC. gave bismark clam sheep wheat and sugar for pig dye incense and silk. clears any happy or health problems we had. get a GA in Madrid, leave him for a culture bomb in our beachhead. grabbed a great prophet in kyoto... there aren't really enough cities with our other religions to make it worth carting it over for a shrine, so i save him. he can help us with philosophy if we want. germany asks us for astronomy. I wish now i'd checked to see if he had it.... I don't see too much harm in this, but I told him no in order to trade it to him. Unfortunately, he fears we are becoming too advanced, so he won't help us out just yet. I start moving a few troops to westside as a staging area... it's as good as any. and we get another great artist in madrid. i leave him with the other one.... I got MT and whipped the forbidden palace.

I made a few mistakes... not giving in to bismark sucked... we can get some gold from him I think. I also waited several turns longer than I could've to whip the forbidden palace. We're ready to settle stone island next turn. I built up our improvements somewhat following the plan. we might be able to cancel our resource deal with bismark and renegotiate it now... i believe i hooked up some pigs down south. we've got a few cats done with more on the way, but we still need more galleons. I've got a couple of galleys keeping an eye on hattie. She's still at LBs.
sorry this isn't the best of reports, but with my classes in full swing again I'm short on time. It's also been quite a while since the last time I played :/

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1508 AD to 1544 AD:

Turn 308, 1508 AD: Buddhism has spread in Berlin.
Turn 308, 1508 AD: You have discovered Guilds!
Turn 308, 1508 AD: You have discovered Music!
Turn 308, 1508 AD: You have discovered Nationalism!

Turn 310, 1520 AD: Ananda has been born in Kyoto!
Turn 310, 1520 AD: Leonardo da Vinci has been born in Turfan!

Turn 311, 1523 AD: Kyoto celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 311, 1523 AD: The borders of Madrid have expanded!
Turn 311, 1523 AD: Kublai Khan has completed The Spiral Minaret!

Turn 312, 1526 AD: Kyoto celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!

Turn 314, 1532 AD: The borders of Osaka have expanded!

Turn 315, 1535 AD: Coppertown celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 315, 1535 AD: You have trained a Galleon in Westside. Work has now begun on a Caravel.
Turn 315, 1535 AD: Li Po has been born in Madrid!

Turn 316, 1538 AD: Coppertown celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!

Turn 317, 1541 AD: You have discovered Military Tradition!


Not bad. I haven't been playing much civ lately either and looks like it's my turn next. :eek:

What's the plan BP?

Mmm - I belive is my turn now ... ;)

But if you want to play today - no problem, I couldn't play until this evening. :)

Regards

Ok, so its nearly time to embark on Stage 2 of our World Conquest Plan.

Hopefully, we're agreed that Hatty is our next target - and if so then Thebes is an obvious first target as it has 2 very useful wonders (Great Lib and Great Lighthouse) and Chitzen Itza (so capturing that will reduce Hatty's defence in her other cities) and its loss will hit Hattys economy and research hard.

Currently, Thebes has 3 LBs (with city garrison), 1 pikeman and +105% defence. To take and hold Thebes, I suggest we need:

~6-9 cats (for bombardment, then suicide)
3-6 cav
2 pikemen (for defence against cav - Hatty already has Mil Trad)
2 or 3 LBs or muskets to defend the city
1 medic
1 Great artist (for culture bomb)
assorted Samurai
enough galleons to carry the above


It may also be useful to land 1 galleon load of troops (e.g. 1 pikeman, 2 Samurai) onto the horses 1W of Memphis to stop Hatty building cavs.

Currently, we have available:

6 cats (1 is 'asleep' in Coppertown) and 3 more being built
0 cav (and we are ~5 turns from Gunpowder)
4 spearmen that could be upgraded to pikemen
0 spare archers (all our archers are currently needed garisoning cities)
2 GAs
5 spare Samurai (+1 fogbusting Samurai south of Eastside), plus 3 swords/axes that could be upgraded
1 medic (axeman in ex-barb city)
2 galleons, 2 more under construction (and 2 galleys)


A Thebes invasion force of 9 cats, 4 cav, 2 pikemen, 2 archers/LBs, 1 GA, 5 Samurai and 1 Medic axeman will need 8 galleons - plus an extra galleon to carry the horse pillaging force of 2 Samurai and 1 pikeman

So, we need:

4 cav
2 archers/LBs
3 galleons
on top of the units we already have, are currently building or can upgrade. Sound reasonable?
The cavs we obviously need to wait for Gunpowder for, and then should build asap (with whips) in our inland cities - e.g. Osaka, Coppertown, ?Santiago, ?Seville etc. We can quickly build a couple of archers or LBs in any city. The extra galleons we can whip in Madrid, Westside and the ex-barb city.
The galleys we need to send back to our borders by Kyoto asap to upgrade into galleons. We should also transport some units *now* from our continent to a staging post south of Beijing with our current galleons - that way the galleons coming from Kyoto will not have to travel all the way across to our main continent to pick up invasion troops.

I would hope we will be attacking Thebes in the next 15-20 turns

Although we are up to number 3 in the score chart, we are still a *long* way behind in tech.
Currently some or all of the AI know (at least):

philosophy
paper
banking
gunpowder
constitution
economics
education
liberalism
printing press
replaceable parts
chemistry

It is rather ironic then that 3 of the AIs currently won't trade with us as they fear we are getting too advanced! :rolleyes:

To help us catch up I think we need to trade Mil Trad. Now I know that sounds crazy, but: Hatty (our next target) and Bismark (probably up next after Hatty) already have Mil Trad, so we won't be helping them. By the time we get round to attacking Mansa, it is inconceivable that he won't already have it from somewhere as he is such a tech-whore. So if we don't trade Mil Trad with Mansa and KK, somebody else will!!! At present we could get gunpowder and banking (or philosophy) + 350 gold from Mansa for Mil Trad (which would enable us to start building cav immediately and have enough gold to upgrade several spearmen or galleys). Alternatively we could get gunpowder and banking from KK, wait a turn and then see what extra techs we could get from Mansa (maybe printing press for example).

We can also use our GProph and 1 GA to get Philos and paper.

We still have plenty of spare resources - and most of the AIs have plenty of spare cash. We need to trade resources for gold. As I've suggested early we can get maximum benefit from subsidised trading with the AIs - but even if we don't do this, then we should at least trade for the max gpt they have (and renegotiate every 10 turns as necessary).

In addition a lot of civs (Mansa and Bismark in particular) are going to get very pissed off with us attacking Hatty. I suggest we gift these 2 plus Mao and HC a resource each (its ok, we have plenty) to help pacify them and maybe to encourage Mao and HC to tech trade with us. KK is only cautious with Hatty and will tech trade already - there is no need to gift him a resource). We also need OB with Mansa to help diplomacy. Possibly we should even convert away from Buddhism (to no religion or even confuc)before we attack Hatty to maximise our relationship with Mansa as he is currently annoyed with us and we are playing aggressive AI - the last thing we need is for him to attack us while we are dealing with Hatty.

As a side issue we need to get some defence in Kyoto and Cow Island quickly - both upgrading the warriors we have there and building a few LBs or muskets. These cities are currently sitting ducks if an AI decides to attack. Upgrading our archers on the main continent might be sensible too, at least in the coastal cities.

I think our general strat should be:

continue improving cities according to specialization (Westside, Tokyo, Santiago, Seville and Coppertown are production cities and need mines, waterwheels, workshops and farms)
Tech: GP>chemistry>steel
?trade Mil Trad and use GPs for tech
build up Armada and invasion force
check cities each turn to ensure best use of specialists and pop. e.g. we should move the priest in Kyoto to a scientist, we should move civilians in BPV to work cottages, we should move 1 pop from grassland to plain tile in Eastside to boost production bonuses
try to remember the pop-rush bug to maximise whipping benefits of forge and org rel
trade resources for gold (preferably subsidised)
we need to boost defence in Kyoto and Cow Island asap!!!!!!
gift resources and get OB to help with diplomacy


As our empire is now quite big and as there are a lot of things to think about and remember each turn, I think we should now switch to 10 turns per player.

Mmm - I belive is my turn now ... ;)

But if you want to play today - no problem, I couldn't play until this evening. :)

Regards

I thought you asked for a skip. You can play next if you want.

I think our general strat should be:
continue improving cities according to specialization (Westside, Tokyo, Santiago, Seville and Coppertown are production cities and need mines, waterwheels, workshops and farms)
Tech: GP>chemistry>steel
?trade Mil Trad and use GPs for tech
build up Armada and invasion force
check cities each turn to ensure best use of specialists and pop. e.g. we should move the priest in Kyoto to a scientist, we should move civilians in BPV to work cottages, we should move 1 pop from grassland to plain tile in Eastside to boost production bonuses
try to remember the pop-rush bug to maximise whipping benefits of forge and org rel
trade resources for gold (preferably subsidised)
we need to boost defence in Kyoto and Cow Island asap!!!!!!
gift resources and get OB to help with diplomacy

As our empire is now quite big and as there are a lot of things to think about and remember each turn, I think we should now switch to 10 turns per player.



I agree.

Mmm - I belive is my turn now ... ;)

But if you want to play today - no problem, I couldn't play until this evening. :)

So, are you able to play?

So, are you able to play?


No. :(

Sorry for delaying you guys this week - reinstalling XP wit proper driver for an old graphic card ( nVidia FX 5200 ) is really a pain. :cry: And of course there are the other "details" ... wife, job and so on ... ;)

Regards all and good luck Murky !

P.S. : The general plan is O.K. for me ... let's hope not too many civs will discover Rifling ... :mischief:

I doubt we'll get through more than 2 AIs before rifles become a problem.... in fact I'll be happy if we can take out hatty before she's got stacks of them. Even while we are taking her out we need to be preparing a second force to take out the next AI.... China maybe?

Played some this morning. I founded the stone/whales city near Kyoto. Used the Prophet in Kyoto to discover Philosophy. I continued improving around cities and made some trade deals to increase our GNP. Discovered Gunpowder and Banking. Also recon'd some of the other civs. Mao has built up some advanced troops. Hatty seems more focused on culture and economy but she has the capabilty to build calvary, grenadiers and frigates. Politically nearly everyone likes us. Mansa seems to be the black sheep of this game.

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/4434/hattysfrigate4woi4.jpg

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/8341/hattystroops4wcz1.jpg


Here is your Session Turn Log from 1544 AD to 1568 AD:

Turn 318, 1544 AD: Edo has been founded.
Turn 318, 1544 AD: You have discovered Philosophy!
Turn 318, 1544 AD: Rene Descartes has been born in Thebes!

Turn 320, 1550 AD: You have constructed a Lighthouse in Westside. Work has now begun on a Caravel.

Turn 321, 1553 AD: Hatshepsut adopts Free Speech!

Turn 322, 1556 AD: You have discovered Gunpowder!
Turn 322, 1556 AD: Coppertown celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 322, 1556 AD: You have constructed a Barracks in Madrid. Work has now begun on a Samurai.

Turn 323, 1559 AD: Coppertown celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 323, 1559 AD: You have constructed a Harbor in Big Pigsville. Work has now begun on a Forge.
Turn 323, 1559 AD: You have constructed a Lighthouse in Eastside. Work has now begun on a Grocer.

Turn 325, 1565 AD: You have discovered Banking!
Turn 325, 1565 AD: You have constructed a Barracks in Seville. Work has now begun on a Cavalry.

Seems pretty good. Can't see the save file on this PC, but a few comments:

Have you built any more galleons and any cavalry for our invasion? That is the #1 priority
Will anyone still trade Mil Trad?
Can't we get OB with Mansa? I know he's generally peaceful but this is aggressive AI and he will be even more pissed off with us when we attack Hatty
I don't think we need a forge in Barca - or another caravel in Westside
Have you transported any invasion troops to Beijing yet?

Politically nearly everyone likes us
They won't when we attack Hatty

Seems pretty good. Can't see the save file on this PC, but a few comments:

Have you built any more galleons and any cavalry for our invasion? That is the #1 priority
Will anyone still trade Mil Trad?
Can't we get OB with Mansa? I know he's generally peaceful but this is aggressive AI and he will be even more pissed off with us when we attack Hatty
I don't think we need a forge in Barca - or another caravel in Westside
Have you transported any invasion troops to Beijing yet?


They won't when we attack Hatty

I didn't play the full 10 turns. 1568 seemed like a good place to stop to plan our next moves.

When I started Kublai was the only one who would trade for MT and it was a lop sided deal in his favor. We are researching at a good pace so it seemed unwise to make the trade deal. Kublai is so backwards I wouldn't be suprised if Mao attacks him at some point.

We have 3 galleons stationed near Westside where I moved most of the catapults that were built.

I thought trading with Mansa would be bad for relations with the other civs so I left him alone for now.

I wasn't sure what to build in Barca and I agree that we don't need any more caravels. Most of the cities that were building them were switched to something else.

Nothing to invade with yet. Still building up.

When I started Kublai was the only one who would trade for MT and it was a lop sided deal in his favor. We are researching a good pace so it seemed unwise to make the trade deal. Fair enough
Kublai is so backwards I wouldn't be suprised if Mao attacks him at some point.. Not as backward as us though..... We should certainly try to encourage the AI civs to attack each other in response to a bit of bribery.
We have 3 galleons stationed near Westside where I moved most of the catapults that were built.
We needed to start moving troops to the AI continent (say, just south of Beijing) to save time - otherwise we will be waiting ages for the upgraded galleys to make it over to our continent to pick the troops up (you did upgrade the galleys, right?). Galleon numbers will be one of the limiting factors that determines the size of our invasion force
I thought trading with Mansa would be bad for relations with the other civs so I left him alone for now. Ok - although I would prefer a cautious Mansa to an annoyed Mansa. Are most of the other civs on bad terms with him?
I wasn't sure what to build in Barca and I agree that we don't need any more caravels. Most of the cities that were building them were switched to something else.
Nothing to invade with yet. Still building up.
We need to whip extra cav and galleons asap!!!!! In view of the 4 or 5 cavalry that Hatty has around Elephantine we also need to take about 5 or 6 pikemen. We have 4 spears we can upgrade.

If we want to catch up in tech with the other civs we'll need to lay off the whip so we can grow our population and economy. I used most of the funds for teching at 100%.

This far behind, I think tech trading is the only way to catch up in tech (we could have got at least Gunpowder, Banking, Philos and Paper from Mansa and KK for Mil Trad). However, given the victory conditions, I think getting our conquest underway rapidly is more important than growing our pop and catching up in tech. We have only a narrow time window before Hatty gets rifles and our cav are useless - we need to get over there with a large invasion force quickly!

(Capturing Thebes with GLib and GLighthouse will help get our economy and research back on track)

I agree with this - if we are over-cautious now we will surely loose badly this game, as conquest is the only enabled victory condition. :(

This far behind, I think tech trading is the only way to catch up in tech (we could have got at least Gunpowder, Banking, Philos and Paper from Mansa and KK for Mil Trad). However, given the victory conditions, I think getting our conquest underway rapidly is more important than growing our pop and catching up in tech. We have only a narrow time window before Hatty gets rifles and our cav are useless - we need to get over there with a large invasion force quickly!

(Capturing Thebes with GLib and GLighthouse will help get our economy and research back on track)

We're not that far behind. The victory condition is conquest but it doesn't say it can't be a modern age conquest. I would have preferred to win with Samurai myself but that just wasn't an option. If we whip like crazy now and capture a bunch of cities it's going to hurt our economy and negatively effect relations with the other major powers. My recommendation is to build up population, economy and industrial production. Once we are in the lead it should be much easier to go to war and sustain it until victory.

We're not that far behind.
At the start of your turn we were (at least) 11 techs behind the tech leaders. By most standards that is a *long* way behind
The victory condition is conquest but it doesn't say it can't be a modern age conquest. But it would be nice to be up for the golden laurels rather than the wooden spoon for the slowest conquest victory. And even so I think we will still be well into the modern age by the time we win even if we start now. If we delay too long there will be defensive pacts all over the continent. If we whip like crazy now and capture a bunch of cities it's going to hurt our economy and negatively effect relations with the other major powers. I'm not overly concerned about our relations with other civs - we will be going to war with them all at some point. And if we are powerful enough, they won't attack us. And we don't need to 'whip like crazy' - we just need 3 or 4 more galleons built and 4 cav.My recommendation is to build up population, economy and industrial production. Once we are in the lead it should be much easier to go to war and sustain it until victory.
I think that is too cautious myself. As it seems a fairly key decision perhaps we should take a vote as to whether for prepare an Armada and invade in the next 10 turn or so to capture Thebes, or to consolidate and build our economy and research? I think you can guess what my vote is for!!!:ar15:

If you guys think we can win by going to war now go for it. :sniper:

We probably should get some input from cas, jpc and nfora before charging in.

It's up to you guys, though I think we still have a bit of work to do before we can start taking them. I usually favour suiciding catapults, and we have nowhere near enough of them for that purpose.

It's up to you guys, though I think we still have a bit of work to do before we can start taking them. I usually favour suiciding catapults, and we have nowhere near enough of them for that purpose.

I agree, we should be building cats in cities with low production to reduce the number of advanced units we will lose.

We should start invading ASAP I vote. We should keep good cities, raze the rest and pillage land to reduce the benefit other civs will have by setling.

With regard to tech, once you start capturing cities the extra gold pretty much keeps your science slider at 100% so we should catch up.

Also, we should definately be trying to start wars on the sly. Do anything you can.

In Rome at the moment, will be back Wednesday!

It's up to you guys, though I think we still have a bit of work to do before we can start taking them. I usually favour suiciding catapults, and we have nowhere near enough of them for that purpose.

I am for invading Eygpt as soon as we are able. Let's just try to plan it so that it doesn't backfire on us.

In Rome at the moment, will be back Wednesday!
You're making me jealous :sad:

You're making me jealous :sad:

Its just a pile of old stones, apparently they used to rule the world. :)

I am bored of sitting on the beach so have found an internet point. I am very sad according to the Mrs! Oh well, tried explaining about the impending war and critical decisions need to be made but she didnt look too impressed, Women!;)

Anyway, I agree with Murky that we need to plan well. But I think a stack big enough to take Thebes should pretty much cripple Hatty. How big would the stack need to be to safely take Thebes and maybe take/raze a few cities nearby to stop flipping? I think 5-6 Cats and 7-8 samurais/cavalry will do it, then about 3-4 Pikes to stop the cavalry counter. We would also need 4+ Galleons to keep plenty of reserves rolling in. If I am off the mark here sorry, but I cant get the game up.

I understand we need to be safe but once we take Thebes I dont think Hatty will pose too many problems.

I'm thinking more like 8-10 cats personally, but I go through them quickly.

Ok, so its nearly time to embark on Stage 2 of our World Conquest Plan.

Hopefully, we're agreed that Hatty is our next target - and if so then Thebes is an obvious first target as it has 2 very useful wonders (Great Lib and Great Lighthouse) and Chitzen Itza (so capturing that will reduce Hatty's defence in her other cities) and its loss will hit Hattys economy and research hard.

Currently, Thebes has 3 LBs (with city garrison), 1 pikeman and +105% defence. To take and hold Thebes, I suggest we need:

~6-9 cats (for bombardment, then suicide)
3-6 cav
2 pikemen (for defence against cav - Hatty already has Mil Trad)
2 or 3 LBs or muskets to defend the city
1 medic
1 Great artist (for culture bomb)
assorted Samurai
enough galleons to carry the above


It may also be useful to land 1 galleon load of troops (e.g. 1 pikeman, 2 Samurai) onto the horses 1W of Memphis to stop Hatty building cavs.

Currently, we have available:

6 cats (1 is 'asleep' in Coppertown) and 3 more being built
0 cav (and we are ~5 turns from Gunpowder)
4 spearmen that could be upgraded to pikemen
0 spare archers (all our archers are currently needed garisoning cities)
2 GAs
5 spare Samurai (+1 fogbusting Samurai south of Eastside), plus 3 swords/axes that could be upgraded
1 medic (axeman in ex-barb city)
2 galleons, 2 more under construction (and 2 galleys)


A Thebes invasion force of 9 cats, 4 cav, 2 pikemen, 2 archers/LBs, 1 GA, 5 Samurai and 1 Medic axeman will need 8 galleons - plus an extra galleon to carry the horse pillaging force of 2 Samurai and 1 pikeman

So, we need:

4 cav
2 archers/LBs
3 galleons
on top of the units we already have, are currently building or can upgrade. Sound reasonable?
The cavs we obviously need to wait for Gunpowder for, and then should build asap (with whips) in our inland cities - e.g. Osaka, Coppertown, ?Santiago, ?Seville etc. We can quickly build a couple of archers or LBs in any city. The extra galleons we can whip in Madrid, Westside and the ex-barb city.
The galleys we need to send back to our borders by Kyoto asap to upgrade into galleons. We should also transport some units *now* from our continent to a staging post south of Beijing with our current galleons - that way the galleons coming from Kyoto will not have to travel all the way across to our main continent to pick up invasion troops.

I would hope we will be attacking Thebes in the next 15-20 turns
Having looked at the current save, I think things may now be trickier. Hatty has gunpowder, chemistry and rep parts and is therefore likely to research rifling in the next 5-10 turns (if she doesn't have it already - Mao already does). So I think we have to assume now that we will be up against 5 riflemen in Thebes. So, if we are going to attack Thebes now we have 2 options:
1. Suicide a lot of cats and Samurai/cav
2. Wait for Grenadiers and upgrade our Samurai
or alternatively:
3. Attack Mansa or KK instead

I'd be interested in everyone's thoughts on this. I think a current priority though should still be to build/upgrade galleons (we will need 6 or 7) and get some cav.

Good breakdown BP, as usual.

If we can take Thebes I think it is worth it. If we attack Mansa or KK, Hatty and Mao may pull further ahead.

I think we should target Thebes, try and stop Hatty's access to horses and raze a few cities around Thebes. We dont want to take too many cities due to the maintenance issues, we have already built FP.

Also have we tried to start any wars between other nations yet?

Also have we tried to start any wars between other nations yet?
There hasn't been any opportunity yet - all the 'Go to war with....' options are in red for everyone. But we should keep looking.

I would love to take out Hatty first, but given her tech lead I'm worried that we will need a staging area nearby where we can actually upgrade our units just before attacking. As it stands it's going to take us far too long to get our grenadiers over to Thebes.

Who's next to play ?

I personally belive that we need to attack asap. ;)

Regards all

Who's next to play ?
I think Murky has a few more turns to play
I personally belive that we need to attack asap. ;)
Yes, but we need to make sure our army is sufficiently large and advanced to beat Hatty (or at least, to win Thebes)

I think Murky has a few more turns to play


You go ahead.

Big Pig
cas
johnpaulcain
Mitiu Ioan
nfora
Murky

Is this still the order? Over to you BP if it is!

Just a few points for next turn:

1) Switch to a citizen for +2 Culture on stone island for 8 turns to get the whales into play, then switch it to work the whales.

2) Is it not worth rushing the Catupult in Osaka and using the excess to complete Heroic Epic?

3) The axeman and Samurai fog busting aren't needed now, send them to join our SOD.

4) I would switch one of the West Coast cities building Cavalry to a Galleon because we only have 3. We need at least 2-3 more.

5) Hattys city to the South, Alexandria, has a hill with a forest (This may have changed as it's in fog), would it be a good idea to land 2 pikes and 2 Samurai with the 75% defence to divert Hattys cavalry for a while before landing the SOD near Thebes? Could start a war 2-3 turns earlier then, the only problem is that a frigate might take out a galleon on it's way to Thebe's.

1) Switch to a citizen for +2 Culture on stone island for 8 turns to get the whales into play, then switch it to work the whales.Sounds good
2) Is it not worth rushing the Catupult in Osaka and using the excess to complete Heroic Epic?Maybe - can't see the game at present but I'm not sure the excess (~40 hammers) would be enough
3) The axeman and Samurai fog busting aren't needed now, send them to join our SOD.ok
4) I would switch one of the West Coast cities building Cavalry to a Galleon because we only have 3. We need at least 2-3 more.Yes - actually I think we probably need even more than that to land a decent SOD and a couple of diversionary/pillaging forces
5) Hattys city to the South, Alexandria, has a hill with a forest (This may have changed as it's in fog), would it be a good idea to land 2 pikes and 2 Samurai with the 75% defence to divert Hattys cavalry for a while before landing the SOD near Thebes? Could start a war 2-3 turns earlier then, the only problem is that a frigate might take out a galleon on it's way to Thebe's.I'd prefer not to attack 2-3 turns earlier as Hatty will move to military production earlier and our galleons may be at risk. A diversionary force is a good idea tho' - altho' I was planning on one to pillage the horses

Did you guys see Obormot's spoiler post for CFR? That's friggin awesome.

Yeah - those guys know how to plan really well. Still, its a useful learning experience.

That's spot on planning for you. If you guys are up for playing the next game together too there are some pointers we could gleam from them.

They seemed to use the lightbulbs and beeline tech path's very effectively. A religion almost has the same effect as stonehenge so that was good thinking. Those guys are very good.

Anyway for our first game together I think we are doing pretty well!

I think we are about to embark on our next war - and not against Hatty. We easily have enough troops in Westside to beat this invasion - but it will probably entail losing Eastside for a few turns

That's spot on planning for you. If you guys are up for playing the next game together too there are some pointers we could gleam from them.

They seemed to use the lightbulbs and beeline tech path's very effectively. A religion almost has the same effect as stonehenge so that was good thinking. Those guys are very good.

Anyway for our first game together I think we are doing pretty well!

I'm up for another game but it would probably better to elect a new team captain for the next go around. I haven't been involved in the game as much as some others have.

I think we are about to embark on our next war - and not against Hatty. We easily have enough troops in Westside to beat this invasion - but it will probably entail losing Eastside for a few turns

Decision made then! If he does attack should we counter and send the SOD to Hyuana?

We definately need some Frigates ASAP.

Finnaly - I purchased a new graphic card and I'm able to play ... when will be the case. :)

Regards all

....and that's an understatement!

So there I was, peacefully trading, creating infrastructure (plus galleons and cav) and shipping cats over to the main continent ready for the moment when we chose to go to war, when HC's Armada is spotted just off the the coast of Eastside. Needless to say he declares war the next turn (miserable so-and-so - even after all the great trades we had going). Now for the really bad news: despite a garrison of 2 LBs, 1 pikeman and 1 cav, Eastside is taken .......... and razed!!! [pissed]

By now, we have just learnt Chemistry. I spend the next few turns getting troops accross from Westside to combat the invasion force - we now have killed all but 1 musketman (I think) but at the further cost of 1 cav and 1 samurai. I have also slowly started upgrading our old melee troops to Grenadiers and shipping some over to the main continent, when..........:aargh:

EDIT: Turn log
Turn 326, 1568 AD: You have trained a Catapult in Osaka. Work has now begun on Heroic Epic.
Turn 326, 1568 AD: Du Fu has been born in Berlin!

Turn 328, 1574 AD: Eastside celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 328, 1574 AD: You have trained a Cavalry in Westside. Work has now begun on a Galleon.
Turn 328, 1574 AD: You have trained a Galleon in Mycenian. Work has now begun on a Harbor.
Turn 328, 1574 AD: Mao Zedong adopts Free Market!

Turn 329, 1577 AD: Eastside celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!

Turn 330, 1580 AD: You have trained a Galleon in Westside. Work has now begun on a Caravel.

Turn 331, 1583 AD: You have trained a Longbowman in Eastside. Work has now begun on a Grocer.
Turn 331, 1583 AD: Huayna Capac has declared war on you!

Turn 332, 1586 AD: You have trained a Pikeman in Eastside. Work has now begun on a Grocer.
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Chuang-Tzu has been born in Madrid!
Turn 332, 1586 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Mycenian. Work has now begun on a Harbor.
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Islam has spread in Edo.
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Knight (11.00) vs Murky Waters's Cavalry (15.00)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Combat Odds: 20.7%
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Knight is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Knight is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Knight is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 17 (15/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Knight is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Knight is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry has defeated Huayna Capac's Knight!
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Knight (11.00) vs Murky Waters's Pikeman (13.62)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Combat Odds: 25.3%
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Plot Defense: +17%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Combat: +100%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Pikeman is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Pikeman is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Pikeman is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Knight is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Pikeman is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Pikeman is hit for 17 (15/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Pikeman is hit for 17 (0/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Knight has defeated Murky Waters's Pikeman!
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Knight (11.00) vs Murky Waters's Longbowman (13.02)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Combat Odds: 27.7%
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Plot Defense: +17%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (City Defense: +100%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Knight is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Knight is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Longbowman is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Longbowman is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Longbowman is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Knight is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Longbowman is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Longbowman is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Knight is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Knight is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Longbowman has defeated Huayna Capac's Knight!
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Knight (11.00) vs Murky Waters's Longbowman (8.52)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Combat Odds: 76.5%
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Plot Defense: +17%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Longbowman is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Longbowman is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Knight is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Longbowman is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Longbowman is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Knight is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Longbowman is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Knight has defeated Murky Waters's Longbowman!
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Grenadier (14.40) vs Murky Waters's Cavalry (2.25)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Grenadier has defeated Murky Waters's Cavalry!
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Grenadier (13.20) vs Murky Waters's Longbowman (1.18)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Plot Defense: +17%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (City Defense: +100%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Longbowman is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Grenadier has defeated Murky Waters's Longbowman!
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Eastside has been captured by the Incan Empire!!!
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Eastside has been razed by the Incan Empire!!!
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Archer (3.90) vs Murky Waters's Scout (2.00)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Combat Odds: 99.4%
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Plot Defense: +75%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Scout is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Scout is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Archer is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Archer is hit for 14 (72/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Archer is hit for 14 (58/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Archer is hit for 14 (44/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Scout is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Murky Waters's Scout is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Archer has defeated Murky Waters's Scout!

Turn 333, 1589 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry (16.50) vs Huayna Capac's Knight (7.26)
Turn 333, 1589 AD: Combat Odds: 99.8%
Turn 333, 1589 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 333, 1589 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 333, 1589 AD: Huayna Capac's Knight is hit for 26 (40/100HP)
Turn 333, 1589 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 333, 1589 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 14 (72/100HP)
Turn 333, 1589 AD: Huayna Capac's Knight is hit for 26 (14/100HP)
Turn 333, 1589 AD: Huayna Capac's Knight is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 333, 1589 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry has defeated Huayna Capac's Knight!
Turn 333, 1589 AD: You have discovered Chemistry!
Turn 333, 1589 AD: The borders of Edo have expanded!
Turn 333, 1589 AD: Huayna Capac's Grenadier (14.40) vs Murky Waters's Samurai (10.80)
Turn 333, 1589 AD: Combat Odds: 68.0%
Turn 333, 1589 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 333, 1589 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 333, 1589 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 333, 1589 AD: Huayna Capac's Grenadier is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 333, 1589 AD: Murky Waters's Samurai is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 333, 1589 AD: Huayna Capac's Grenadier is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 333, 1589 AD: Murky Waters's Samurai is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 333, 1589 AD: Murky Waters's Samurai is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 333, 1589 AD: Murky Waters's Samurai is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 333, 1589 AD: Huayna Capac's Grenadier is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 333, 1589 AD: Huayna Capac's Grenadier is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 333, 1589 AD: Murky Waters's Samurai is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 333, 1589 AD: Huayna Capac's Grenadier has defeated Murky Waters's Samurai!

Turn 334, 1592 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Coppertown!
Turn 334, 1592 AD: You have discovered Paper!
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry (14.19) vs Huayna Capac's Grenadier (10.43)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Combat Odds: 79.1%
Turn 334, 1592 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 16 (70/100HP)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 16 (54/100HP)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 16 (38/100HP)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 16 (22/100HP)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Huayna Capac's Grenadier is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Huayna Capac's Grenadier is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Huayna Capac's Grenadier is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Huayna Capac's Grenadier is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Huayna Capac's Grenadier is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry has defeated Huayna Capac's Grenadier!
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry (16.50) vs Huayna Capac's Grenadier (14.40)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Combat Odds: 70.1%
Turn 334, 1592 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Huayna Capac's Grenadier is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Huayna Capac's Grenadier is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Huayna Capac's Grenadier is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Huayna Capac's Grenadier is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Huayna Capac's Grenadier is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry has defeated Huayna Capac's Grenadier!
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Huayna Capac's Grenadier (9.50) vs Murky Waters's Cavalry (8.34)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Combat Odds: 57.0%
Turn 334, 1592 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 21 (43/100HP)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 21 (22/100HP)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 21 (1/100HP)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Huayna Capac's Grenadier is hit for 18 (48/100HP)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Huayna Capac's Grenadier is hit for 18 (30/100HP)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 334, 1592 AD: Huayna Capac's Grenadier has defeated Murky Waters's Cavalry!

Turn 335, 1595 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Coppertown!
Turn 335, 1595 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Coppertown!
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Murky Waters's Samurai (9.60) vs Huayna Capac's Knight (8.16)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Combat Odds: 71.7%
Turn 335, 1595 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Murky Waters's Samurai is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Huayna Capac's Knight is hit for 21 (73/100HP)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Huayna Capac's Knight is hit for 21 (52/100HP)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Murky Waters's Samurai is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Huayna Capac's Knight is hit for 21 (31/100HP)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Murky Waters's Samurai is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Murky Waters's Samurai is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Huayna Capac's Knight is hit for 21 (10/100HP)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Huayna Capac's Knight is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Murky Waters's Samurai has defeated Huayna Capac's Knight!
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Your Samurai has destroyed a Knight!
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier (13.20) vs Huayna Capac's Catapult (5.00)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 335, 1595 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 12 (88/100HP)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 12 (76/100HP)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 12 (64/100HP)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Huayna Capac's Catapult is hit for 31 (69/100HP)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 12 (52/100HP)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Huayna Capac's Catapult is hit for 31 (38/100HP)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 12 (40/100HP)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Huayna Capac's Catapult is hit for 31 (7/100HP)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 12 (28/100HP)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 12 (16/100HP)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Huayna Capac's Catapult is hit for 31 (0/100HP)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier has defeated Huayna Capac's Catapult!
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Your Grenadier has destroyed a Catapult!
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Murky Waters's Samurai (9.60) vs Huayna Capac's Grenadier (4.32)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 335, 1595 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Huayna Capac's Grenadier is hit for 20 (10/100HP)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Huayna Capac's Grenadier is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Murky Waters's Samurai has defeated Huayna Capac's Grenadier!
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Your Samurai has destroyed a Grenadier!
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 54 $ for Big Pigsville.
Turn 335, 1595 AD: You have discovered Printing Press!
Turn 335, 1595 AD: Sinan has been born in Memphis!

Turn 336, 1598 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Seville!
Turn 336, 1598 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Big Pigsville!
Turn 336, 1598 AD: You have discovered Replaceable Parts!
Turn 336, 1598 AD: Bismarck has completed Versailles!
Turn 336, 1598 AD: Hatshepsut adopts Emancipation!
Turn 336, 1598 AD: Deal Canceled: Sheep to Mansa Musa
Turn 336, 1598 AD: Deal Canceled: Clam to Mansa Musa for Gold Per Turn (5)
Turn 336, 1598 AD: Mansa Musa has declared war on you!

Turn 337, 1601 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Kyoto!
Turn 337, 1601 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Seville!
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Bismarck has declared war on Mansa Musa!

So currently:

We are at war with HC and Mansa. Mansa has an invasion force of 4 rifles and 2 cats off the coast of Kyoto. Kyoto's defences are not great (1LB, 1 Sam, 1 musket) but might be enough to see off an amphibious invasion. Edo (Stone Island) has no defence yet; Cow Island has 1 LB and 1 warrior (I think). There is a caravel near Edo which could be upgraded to a frigate, but no other naval forces in the area. HC has (I think) 1 musket left on our continent, but may arrive with reinforcements any turn now.
We have at least got an ally in our war with the treacherous Mansa. Bismark was happy to declare on him for a small consideration (chemistry). Interestingly, before Mansa declared, Mansa had a Def Pact with Hatty
We have a stack of cats and 1 cav just south of Beijing which would have been part of our SOD for our original invasion plan against Thebes. There are also more troops making their way on galleons to that area.
We have 4 new techs: paper (from a Gr Proph in Madrid), Chemistry, Print Press and Rep Parts. We are currently researching Steel (but the slider is at 0% to get enough money for upgrades)

Did you finnish your turn ?
Is possible to ally with someone or everybody hate us ?

I see that you already answer to me ... :)

OK, by the look of it no units have the amphibious upgrade. I think that means they cannot get Edo or Kyoto. Am I right? Not sure if they can get Edo if it has no defender. Can we not build a very cheap unit instead of the Musket or transport one from Edo or Kyoto? We need 4 units to hold them off.

If we move a unit onto the cow square of cow island they shouldn't be able to invade there either. If I am wrong then we may be in deep doo doo!

You really should have foreseen this BP! (JOKE)

The good thing is it makes our invasion all the more satisfying!

When are you about Cas?

OK, by the look of it no units have the amphibious upgrade. I think that means they cannot get Edo or Kyoto. Am I right? Not sure if they can get Edo if it has no defender. Can we not build a very cheap unit instead of the Musket or transport one from Edo or Kyoto? We need 4 units to hold them off.

If we move a unit onto the cow square of cow island they shouldn't be able to invade there either. If I am wrong then we may be in deep doo doo!
Unfortunately I think having the amphib promotion just removes the penalty (?=100%) for amphibious attacks. I think Cow Island is in big trouble if they decide to attack there even if we can whip another unit there next turn and upgrade the warrior to something decent. We cant defend Edo or transport a unit there. Hopefully the garrison on Kyoto is strong enough to hold off an amphib assault.
You really should have foreseen this BP! (JOKE)
Don't neglect defence in Kyoto and Cow Island as other civs now have galleons. From way back at post 738! If only you'd listened......!! ;)

OK We may have a very slim chance of repelling the raid.

Switch all specialists in Kyoto and Cow Island to citizens for the extra hammer.

After building Musket in Kyoto rush a galleon if possible. If the citizens are switched so that we grow in one it's possible.

If we have a galleon we should be able to juggle the units between the two islands depending on where they land. The galleon can always end up in a city which reduces the chance of it getting caught.

The chances of getting enough units to Cow Island are slim but this way we have a very very slim chance which is better than none!

OK We may have a very slim chance of repelling the raid.

Switch all specialists in Kyoto and Cow Island to citizens for the extra hammer.

After building Musket in Kyoto rush a galleon if possible. If the citizens are switched so that we grow in one it's possible.

If we have a galleon we should be able to juggle the units between the two islands depending on where they land. The galleon can always end up in a city which reduces the chance of it getting caught.

The chances of getting enough units to Cow Island are slim but this way we have a very very slim chance which is better than none!
Sounds an interesting idea - although all will depend on Mansa's next move - and whether he can land troops on Cow Island this turn. If he does, then I think a rushed galleon will be too late to save Cow Island and we should rush another defender in Kyoto instead.

Wow. Lots-o-war.

I won't be able to play for a couple of days. And I'd prefer someone with more conquest-style experience to play the next turns anyway. I've been keeping up with the thread, but not posting because I'm a builder...not a warlord. Thus I have no educated opinion on how to proceed.

cas

Thus I have no educated opinion on how to proceed.
...and you think we do????! ;)

We're in a pretty tough situation. We don't have near enough troops at the Island cities to defend with and not really enough anywhere else to attack with.

We're in a pretty tough situation. We don't have near enough troops at the Island cities to defend with and not really enough anywhere else to attack with.

I don't mind playing next then. I get in these situations all the time because I rush things! I quite like getting out of them. I can play tonight.

I agree with BP, my salvage plan will only work dependant on Mansa's next move.

Any other advice?

Good luck.

What are your plans for the forces on and en route to the main continent? (should be ~9 cats, 1 cav, 4 grenadiers, 1 medic, 1 pikeman, 1 GA and a couple of bows). I had them massing about off the coast of Thebes ready to invade. We can stick with that plan or move them towards Mansa (or HC). Maybe decide when the result of Mansa's attack on Kyoto or Cow Island is known? I don't think we should completely discount the idea of attacking Thebes in the not too distant future tho'.

There are a number of Samurai and spears on our continent still waiting to be upgraded. I think upgrading our forces should be a priority over research and would recommend you keep the tech slider at 0% until all our units are updated. Also, don't forget we can upgrade caravels to frigates.

I think HC will be back soon with another 9-12 units and he may show up anywhere along the East coast, so make sure we have enough mobile defences (but at the same time we need to boost our forces on the main continent with extra pikemen, grenadiers and cav). A couple of frigates on the east coast would be useful too.

I think we are safe from attack from Hatty, Mao and Bismark - but I am worried about KK. Hopefully he will attack Mansa instead if he is feeling aggressive as they dislike each other.

A couple of other points:

a settler to rebuild New Eastside would be useful - otherwise one of the other civs will settle there and take advantage of our cottages and farms
Some units (I think the caravels) have automoves set - you may wish to cancel these on turn 1.
you should rationalise our resource deals with Mao. Start by cancelling the resource for gold deals and renegotiating them so we only give away 1 resource for his gold - THEN cancel the free gold deals. (If you do it the other way round, he will have less gpt to give us for our resource)
Remember we will probably lose the clam fish and crab resources round the islands - plan your trades accordingly
the stone quarry needs rebuilding once HC's musket has been dealt with

Good luck.

What are your plans for the forces on and en route to the main continent? (should be ~9 cats, 1 cav, 4 grenadiers, 1 medic, 1 pikeman, 1 GA and a couple of bows). I had them massing about off the coast of Thebes ready to invade. We can stick with that plan or move them towards Mansa (or HC). Maybe decide when the result of Mansa's attack on Kyoto or Cow Island is known? I don't think we should completely discount the idea of attacking Thebes in the not too distant future tho'.


I am not sure whether to go for Thebes or not? I may play the next couple of turns to see how we fair. I will look at whether it may be worth taking the stack Kyoto way and attacking Mansa or KK from that direction. We could grab some cities closer to Kyoto then?

I am not sure whether to go for Thebes or not? I may play the next couple of turns to see how we fair. I will look at whether it may be worth taking the stack Kyoto way and attacking Mansa or KK from that direction. We could grab some cities closer to Kyoto then?
Yes, playing it by ear is probably the best thing. Mansa has a couple of nice Holy Cities that will help our economy (if Bismark doesn't get there first...)

It looks to me like fastest conquest is out... anyone have a problem with changing our goal to just plain old conquest? More careful timing and planning could let us at least be sure of victory over the AI.

It looks to me like fastest conquest is out... anyone have a problem with changing our goal to just plain old conquest? More careful timing and planning could let us at least be sure of victory over the AI.

I don't think we ever would have got quickest conquest in our fisrt game......however I think we are now in a good position to push on ;) .

I took 17 turns instead of 15 this time, I got a bit carried away sorry! Anyway the good news is we have not lost any more cities and I have taken Gao from Mansa which is the Confucianist holy city. I only lost 3 catapults and we now have steel and can upgrade to canons.

The bad news is I didn't attack Hatty because he had a nice supply of rifles in Thebes so thought it better to wait for canons and Mao has gone and declared war on us!

But we have a massive stack on cow island, loads of galleons and a few frigates and we can now decide our strategy. I don't think anyone can threaten us now and we could invade anyone we choose and wipe them out. I think it should be Hatty ASAP because she is now getting near to Infantry.

There is a Japanese stack that has landed next to Westside that needs repelling, it shouldn't take westside but may threaten other cities unless we take it out.

I think we should all look at the save game and decide on a strategy now. I used this turn to repel mansa/Hyuana and get a large force in a position to choose our next target.

Turn 337, 1601 AD: Bismarck has declared war on Mansa Musa!
Turn 338, 1604 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry has defeated Huayna Capac's Musketman!:)
Turn 340, 1610 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier has defeated Huayna Capac's Rifleman!:)
Turn 340, 1610 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier has defeated Huayna Capac's Rifleman!:)
Turn 340, 1610 AD: You have captured Vitcos!!!
Turn 340, 1610 AD: You have pillaged 3 4 from the destruction of Vitcos!!!
Turn 342, 1616 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier has defeated Mansa Musa's Rifleman!:)
Turn 342, 1616 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier has defeated Mansa Musa's Rifleman!:)
Turn 342, 1616 AD: You have captured Tadmekka!!!
Turn 342, 1616 AD: You have pillaged 2 4 from the destruction of Tadmekka!!!
Turn 343, 1619 AD: Satsuma has been founded.
Turn 344, 1622 AD: Christianity has spread in Satsuma.
Turn 350, 1640 AD: Murky Waters's Frigate has defeated Huayna Capac's Caravel!:)
Turn 352, 1646 AD: Mao Zedong has declared war on you!:mad:
Turn 353, 1649 AD: Mansa Musa's Rifleman has defeated Murky Waters's Catapult!:(
Turn 353, 1649 AD: Murky Waters's Catapult (5.00) vs Mansa Musa's Rifleman Turn 353, 1649 AD: Your Catapult has withdrawn from combat with a Rifleman!:)
Turn 353, 1649 AD: Mansa Musa's Rifleman has defeated Murky Waters's Catapult!:(
Turn 353, 1649 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier has defeated Mansa Musa's Rifleman!:)
Turn 353, 1649 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier has defeated Mansa Musa's Rifleman!:)
Turn 353, 1649 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier has defeated Mansa Musa's Rifleman!:)
Turn 353, 1649 AD: Murky Waters's Catapult has defeated Mansa Musa's Catapult!
Turn 353, 1649 AD: Murky Waters's Catapult has defeated Mansa Musa's Catapult!
Turn 353, 1649 AD: You have captured Gao!!!
Turn 353, 1649 AD: Murky Waters has completed The Temple of Solomon!:)
Turn 353, 1649 AD: You have discovered Steel!
Turn 354, 1652 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Westside!

Superb!!! Well done! :clap:
I don't know how you managed to turn things around from the turn log you posted - can you tell us more?

I can't believe that treacherous little toad Mao declared war on us - I thought he was one of our safest friends.

I see HC will settle and give us some gold. Perhaps we should accept and concentrate on destroying Mansa (and holding off Mao)
I took 17 turns instead of 15 this time We're actually on 10 turns now, but under the circumstances, I don't think anyone will complain!

EDIT 1: I am worried about Mao's stack of 4 grenadiers 2 tiles south of Satsuma (New Eastside) - we need to get some defences over that direction quickly. (Oops - I now see that they are our Grenadiers!! :blush:)

EDIT 2: Where were the cities you destroyed? (Vitcos and Tadmekka)

Nice way to turn things around jpc. We should plan our next moves with care.

Superb!!! Well done! :clap:
I don't know how you managed to turn things around from the turn log you posted - can you tell us more?

I rushed the musketman in Kyoto then a Galleon. Hyuana seemed relunctant to attack if we had a unit in the city so juggling the galleon and a unit for 2-3 turns done the trick, I have seen this before on Archipelago maps that's why I said to build a galleon, the AI doesn't seem to do amphibiuos attacks without marines. In the end he took them back. I suppose he needed them for Bismark. He kept 2 Frigates and 2 Galleons around to pillage the fish and crabs so I had to keep all the galleons at least 5 MPs away until I got the 2 galleys back and upgraded them to Frigates. I also rushed one in Kyoto.

We're actually on 10 turns now, but under the circumstances, I don't think anyone will complain!

Oops, sorry.
:blush:

EDIT 1: I am worried about Mao's stack of 4 grenadiers 2 tiles south of Satsuma (New Eastside) - we need to get some defences over that direction quickly. (Oops - I now see that they are our Grenadiers!! :blush:)

Yes they should take it next turn.

EDIT 2: Where were the cities you destroyed? (Vitcos and Tadmekka)

The next galleons brought settlers to settle on eastsides spot, easy pickings!



I think we should destroy Mansa and upgrade our army, then take Thebes!

Nicely done.

On a side note, I consider the 'X' turn thing a general guideline. Certainly don't want anyone going 3-4 times the limit, but there are situations when it just makes sense for one person to keep playing through a tech / build qeue / siege / etc...

Everyone is getting a fair chance to play through different phases of the game, and that is the important thing.

cas

Cas

Are you going to take your turn next? We have a very large army now so the plan will be to declare peace with Hyuana, upgrade army to canons and grenadiers, build some more cavalry, finish off Mansa and invade Thebes and the horses on Hattys East Coast.

We should also now start leaving a few units on the home land at strategic positions to enable quick response to any invasions. We should also build more frigates and get naval supremacy.

We now have the buddhist and Jewish monuments so spreading these religions will help our economy. We also have the Confucianist holy city which we should use a great artist in for a culture bomb (it's currently on cow island), then if we get another great prophet build the confucianist monument.

Lot's to do! But I think it should be acheivable.

Oh one more thing. On the first turn after the save I accidently cancelled open borders with Hatty by mistake. I meant to cancel a trade deal. So as it was a slip I reloaded, it would have completely messed us up otherwise as we would not have had a route to Kyoto. This is legal isn't it?

I made sure I made all the same moves, which was easy as BP had finished all the moves before posting the save.

We have a very large army now so the plan will be to declare peace with Hyuana, upgrade army to canons and grenadiers, build some more cavalry, finish off Mansa and invade Thebes and the horses on Hattys East Coast.

We should also now start leaving a few units on the home land at strategic positions to enable quick response to any invasions. We should also build more frigates and get naval supremacy.

We now have the buddhist and Jewish monuments so spreading these religions will help our economy. We also have the Confucianist holy city which we should use a great artist in for a culture bomb (it's currently on cow island), then if we get another great prophet build the confucianist monument.

Lot's to do! But I think it should be acheivable.
I agree with the above.

get peace with HC for gold - and get peace with Mao when we can (hopefully he should offer gold if he loses his cav invasion force to the defenders in Westside and our grenadiers are able to raze his city south of New Eastside). It might be worth sending a few grenadiers to destroy his city in the south of our continent too.
upgrade samurai etc to grenadiers and cats to cannons
keep tech slider on 0% until we have paid for all upgrades
Our immediate war aim should be to capture and raze Mansa's cities. Only the Taoist holy city may be worth keeping. However we should learn from our mistakes with Isabella and not wipe mout Mansa completely before we have extorted a few techs out of him for peace
We have enough galleons now - frigates should be our current naval priority so we can intercept invasion forces before they land

On the first turn after the save I accidently cancelled open borders with Hatty by mistake. I meant to cancel a trade deal. So as it was a slip I reloaded, it would have completely messed us up otherwise as we would not have had a route to Kyoto. This is legal isn't it?
Lets hope so. It might be wise to PM AlanH to let him know what you have done.

So ... is my turn now ?

So ... is my turn now ?

It depends if cas wants to take up his skipped turn or not? Otherwise it's you mate!

Whoever it is is gonna have a good warring session I feel! Good Luck!

I wonder if we should change civics? Police state and/or Nationhood might be handy to help us to pump out military, and Theocracy and/or Vassalage would be helpful for the xp. The problem is that we get 2 turns of anarchy for changing 1 civic and 3 turns for 2 civics - and of course we would lose the benefits of Representation and Bureaucracy. What are your thoughts?

I wonder if we should change civics? Police state and/or Nationhood might be handy to help us to pump out military, and Theocracy and/or Vassalage would be helpful for the xp. The problem is that we get 2 turns of anarchy for changing 1 civic and 3 turns for 2 civics - and of course we would lose the benefits of Representation and Bureaucracy. What are your thoughts?

I've never been fond of Nationhood, but police state could be a huge help. as for the xp ones, i'm not sure just how much benefit they will be for us.

Globe Theater in a high-growth city + Nationhood/Slavery is a good combo for pumping out large numbers of troops. Even better if you would work in West Point.

{...} and of course we would lose the benefits of Representation and Bureaucracy. What are your thoughts?

I don't like this ... :rolleyes:

What's general ideeas/plan for the next moves ? :)

Theocracy is probably not a good idea as we want to spread any of the relegions we have the shrine for to get the extra gold.

I would go Representation/Vassalage (For lower support cost)/Slaves/Any Economic?/Pacifism until Free Religion

I don't think we need police state as we have plenty of units. I dont think we need nationhood either as we are not suffering too badly with unhappiness.

Thats my penny's worth!

Cas are you going or is Mitiu?

Mitiu can go. I was out of town the last couple of days...thought you guys would just move forward...I did not expect to play my skipped turns.

cas

Played just 2 turns - because I'm in late at work.

Anyway - 2 points to note :

1. With the cost of 1 caputred worker and 1 cavalry the chinese landing forces are reduced to only 1 wounded cavalty. ;)

2. One of my crazy ideea was put in practice - use the both Great Artists to rush Education and set slide to 60% science => Education next turn. Kubilai Khan didn't know nor steel nor education, he is in good relations with Bismark => we obtain rifling in my second turn !! :king:

That's for the moment - continue in the evening.

Regards all.

2. One of my crazy ideea was put in practice - use the both Great Artists to rush Education and set slide to 60% science => Education next turn. Kubilai Khan didn't know nor steel nor education, he is in good relations with Bismark => we obtain rifling in my second turn !! :king:


That's good. We still have one great Artist in Cow Island to culture bomb the conf holy city though right?

We need to upgrade all units and head for Thebes and Hatty's horses.

Have we decided on civics?

I forget to mention that I also signed a fair peace ( nothing give, nothing receive ) with Huyana Capac and that I played in fact only 1 turn ( receive the save, make some adjustement, press <ENTER>, made the trade ( Steel + Education for Rifling + 130 gold pieces ) , upgrade 1 samurai to grenadier and 1 musketer to rifleman on Cow Island and save the game. :)

Probably I'll attack the new eastern chinese city this turn too ... hope we will raze it ... ;)

Regards all

I forget to mention that I also signed a fair peace ( nothing give, nothing receive ) with Huyana Capac
I'm surprised you couldn't get some gold for peace. When I looked at the save HC was offering ~150 gold for a peace treaty.
Now we are at peace with him we should renegotiate Open Borders and resource trades - and if possible tech trades
made the trade ( Steel + Education for Rifling + 130 gold pieces )Isn't steel alone worth more than rifling? Or wasn't KK interested in that deal?
Is there anybody else (?Bismark or even HC) we can trade steel with?
One of my crazy ideea was put in practice - use the both Great Artists to rush Education and set slide to 60% science => Education next turn I think thats a good use for the GAs. But I think you should put science back to 0% now and raise enough money to upgrade all our units
Have we decided on civics?I don't think there was much consensus! Representation (for the extra science and happies) and bureaucracy (as Osaka already has high base commerce and production) are probably worth sticking with at present. Similarly slavery is probably still the most useful legal civic we can run (although caste system may soon eclipse it as a lot of our infrastructure should soon be built). We could get mercantilism - I'm not really sure if the extra specialist is better than the loss of foreign trade (certainly it will be as the game progresses and we are fighting most of the other AIs and have razed lots of cities). Theocracy would be useful - it depends how aggressively we are going to want to spread Judaism around our cities. Also your suggestion of Pacifism would be good too to churn out GPs in Madrid
We need to upgrade all units and head for Thebes and Hatty's horses. Yes - but we should probably go for the jugular with Mansa first. Raze a number of his cities (apart from the Taoist Holy City) and extract a large tech settlement for peace.
Against Mao we should be defensive and just raze his cities on our continent - he will offer gold for peace soon.

I'm surprised you couldn't get some gold for peace. When I looked at the save HC was offering ~150 gold for a peace treaty.


My mistake then. :(
I propose him peace trying to obtain a tech, he refuse and I conclude that couldn't obtain nothing from him .


Isn't steel alone worth more than rifling? Or wasn't KK interested in that deal?


No - he wanted 2 techs.


Is there anybody else (?Bismark or even HC) we can trade steel with?


Unfortunately no. What to research next ? I choose Steam Power - but because the slider will be for ~5 turns on 0% science probably this isn't important ...


But I think you should put science back to 0% now and raise enough money to upgrade all our units


Of course. :)


Also your suggestion of Pacifism would be good too to churn out GPs in Madrid


This is tempting - but probably will hurt our finance a lot the +1 gold piece ... let's wait at least until our first "shock-force" will be upgraded at full. ;)

My mistake then. :(
I propose him peace trying to obtain a tech, he refuse and I conclude that couldn't obtain nothing from him
The best way to see the most a civ will offer is the 'What is the price for peace?' option in the negotiation screen. In my experience this always shows the most an AI will offer at any given time
No - he wanted 2 techs. Oh, well - at least it help us catch up in tech with the others, and gives us a good defence against enemy cav
What to research next ? I choose Steam Power - but because the slider will be for ~5 turns on 0% science probably this isn't important ...Maybe Liberalism for Free Religion? Or perhaps we could get that from Mansa after we have razed a few of his cities?

Maybe Liberalism for Free Religion? Or perhaps we could get that from Mansa after we have razed a few of his cities?

Let's hope so.
I resume to play a little bit latter - I started now, but my computer crashed :cry: ( seems that my new graphic card isn't properly installed - will reinstall drivers and continue after ;) ).

Seems that there are a lot of galleons, but ... few frigate to escort them ... :confused:

Regards all

Seems that there are a lot of galleons, but ... few frigate to escort them ... :confused:
I guess you know what to build in our coastal cities then..... ;)

Things go wrong - and this is somekind of a "light exprimation". :(

Kubilai Khan declare war upon us and a mixed mongol-chinese expeditionary force attack Gao ( fortunately I managed to get some reinforcement from Cow Island there ). First turn of attack was a bloody one, we lost 2 rifleman, 3 cavalry and 1 or 2 grenadiers, but hold the city.

I started to build/rushed some theaters in order to make possible to build Globe Theater in Madrid.

The save is uploaded ( I'm a little bit busy to work - so probably couldn't play until in weekend and I decide to not block the game until then with the rest of my move ) - after first turn of Kubilai declaration of war. Mao didn't want to sign peace even I razed east city and occupy the sout one from our continent... :(

Regards all and good luck for the next player !!


Turn 354, 1652 AD: You have made peace with Huayna Capac!
Turn 354, 1652 AD: You have discovered Education!
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry (16.50) vs Murky Waters's Cavalry (18.00)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Combat Odds: 32.4%
Turn 354, 1652 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry has defeated Murky Waters's Cavalry!
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry (18.00) vs Murky Waters's Grenadier (19.80)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Combat Odds: 31.9%
Turn 354, 1652 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier has defeated Mao Zedong's Cavalry!
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry (18.00) vs Murky Waters's Grenadier (19.80)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Combat Odds: 31.9%
Turn 354, 1652 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier has defeated Mao Zedong's Cavalry!
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry (16.50) vs Murky Waters's Grenadier (18.60)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Combat Odds: 30.6%
Turn 354, 1652 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier has defeated Mao Zedong's Cavalry!
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Mao Zedong's Grenadier (12.00) vs Murky Waters's Grenadier (18.60)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Combat Odds: 10.2%
Turn 354, 1652 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Mao Zedong's Grenadier is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Mao Zedong's Grenadier is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Mao Zedong's Grenadier is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Mao Zedong's Grenadier is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Mao Zedong's Grenadier is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier has defeated Mao Zedong's Grenadier!
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Mao Zedong adopts Representation!
Turn 354, 1652 AD: Huayna Capac adopts Bureaucracy!

Turn 355, 1655 AD: You have discovered Rifling!
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry (16.50) vs Mao Zedong's Cavalry (18.00)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Combat Odds: 32.4%
Turn 355, 1655 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry has defeated Mao Zedong's Cavalry!
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier (14.40) vs Mao Zedong's Rifleman (13.33)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Combat Odds: 66.9%
Turn 355, 1655 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: (City Defense: +20%)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: (Class Attack: -50%)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Mao Zedong's Rifleman is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Mao Zedong's Rifleman is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Mao Zedong's Rifleman is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Mao Zedong's Rifleman is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Mao Zedong's Rifleman has defeated Murky Waters's Grenadier!
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier (15.60) vs Mao Zedong's Rifleman (3.36)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 355, 1655 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: (City Defense: +20%)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: (Class Attack: -50%)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Mao Zedong's Rifleman is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier has defeated Mao Zedong's Rifleman!
Turn 355, 1655 AD: You have captured Tianjin!!!
Turn 355, 1655 AD: You have pillaged 7 4 from the destruction of Tianjin!!!
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier (14.40) vs Mao Zedong's Cavalry (13.20)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Combat Odds: 55.2%
Turn 355, 1655 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 19 (61/100HP)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 19 (42/100HP)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 19 (23/100HP)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 19 (4/100HP)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 355, 1655 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier has defeated Mao Zedong's Cavalry!

Turn 357, 1661 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Cow Island. Work has now begun on a Theatre.
Turn 357, 1661 AD: You have constructed a Grocer in Madrid. Work has now begun on a Theatre.
Turn 357, 1661 AD: You have constructed a Theatre in Mycenian. Work has now begun on a Work Boat.
Turn 357, 1661 AD: Mansa Musa's Frigate (9.60) vs Murky Waters's Galleon (4.40)
Turn 357, 1661 AD: Combat Odds: 99.4%
Turn 357, 1661 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 357, 1661 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 357, 1661 AD: Murky Waters's Galleon is hit for 29 (71/100HP)
Turn 357, 1661 AD: Mansa Musa's Frigate is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 357, 1661 AD: Mansa Musa's Frigate is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 357, 1661 AD: Murky Waters's Galleon is hit for 29 (42/100HP)
Turn 357, 1661 AD: Murky Waters's Galleon is hit for 29 (13/100HP)
Turn 357, 1661 AD: Murky Waters's Galleon is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 357, 1661 AD: Mansa Musa's Frigate has defeated Murky Waters's Galleon!

Turn 358, 1664 AD: You have trained a Cavalry in Tokyo. Work has now begun on a Rifleman.

Turn 359, 1667 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Mycenian. Work has now begun on a Rifleman.
Turn 359, 1667 AD: Mansa Musa has made peace with Bismarck!

Turn 360, 1670 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Gao!
Turn 360, 1670 AD: You have constructed a Granary in Satsuma. Work has now begun on a Work Boat.
Turn 360, 1670 AD: You have constructed a Theatre in Gao. Work has now begun on a Barracks.
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Cannon (12.00) vs Murky Waters's Grenadier (16.20)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Combat Odds: 21.1%
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (City Defense: +20%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: You have suffered collateral damage! (7 Units)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Cannon is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Cannon is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Cannon is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Cannon is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Cannon is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier has defeated Mao Zedong's Cannon!
Turn 360, 1670 AD: While defending, your Grenadier has killed a Chinese Cannon!
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Cannon (12.00) vs Murky Waters's Rifleman (12.17)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Combat Odds: 36.7%
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (City Defense: +20%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: You have suffered collateral damage! (7 Units)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Cannon is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Cannon is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Cannon is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Rifleman is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Rifleman is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Rifleman is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Rifleman is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Cannon is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Rifleman is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Rifleman is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Cannon has defeated Murky Waters's Rifleman!
Turn 360, 1670 AD: While defending, your Rifleman was destroyed by a Chinese Cannon!
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry (18.00) vs Murky Waters's Rifleman (18.90)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Combat Odds: 34.5%
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Rifleman is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Rifleman is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Rifleman is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Rifleman is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Rifleman is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Rifleman is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Cavalry has defeated Murky Waters's Rifleman!
Turn 360, 1670 AD: While defending, your Rifleman was destroyed by a Chinese Cavalry!
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Grenadier (13.20) vs Murky Waters's Cavalry (17.01)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Combat Odds: 23.3%
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Grenadier is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Grenadier is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Grenadier is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Grenadier is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Grenadier is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry has defeated Mao Zedong's Grenadier!
Turn 360, 1670 AD: While defending, your Cavalry has killed a Chinese Grenadier!
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Grenadier (13.20) vs Murky Waters's Cavalry (17.01)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Combat Odds: 23.3%
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Grenadier is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 16 (4/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Grenadier is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 16 (0/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Grenadier has defeated Murky Waters's Cavalry!
Turn 360, 1670 AD: While defending, your Cavalry was destroyed by a Chinese Grenadier!
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Grenadier (13.20) vs Murky Waters's Grenadier (15.66)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Combat Odds: 27.7%
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (Combat: +10%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Grenadier is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Grenadier is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Grenadier is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 17 (73/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 17 (56/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 17 (39/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Grenadier is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 17 (22/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mao Zedong's Grenadier is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier has defeated Mao Zedong's Grenadier!
Turn 360, 1670 AD: While defending, your Grenadier has killed a Chinese Grenadier!
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Dante Alighieri has been born in Cuzco!
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mansa Musa's Cavalry (18.00) vs Murky Waters's Grenadier (18.36)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Combat Odds: 48.8%
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mansa Musa's Cavalry is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 19 (71/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mansa Musa's Cavalry is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mansa Musa's Cavalry is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mansa Musa's Cavalry is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Mansa Musa's Cavalry is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier has defeated Mansa Musa's Cavalry!
Turn 360, 1670 AD: While defending, your Grenadier has killed a Malinese Cavalry!
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Deal Canceled: Open Borders to Kublai Khan for Open Borders
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Deal Canceled: Sheep to Kublai Khan for Gold Per Turn (7)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Deal Canceled: Sugar to Kublai Khan for Gold Per Turn (1)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Kublai Khan has declared war on you!
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Kublai Khan's Cannon (12.00) vs Murky Waters's Cavalry (10.34)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Combat Odds: 71.0%
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: You have suffered collateral damage! (7 Units)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Kublai Khan's Cannon is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Kublai Khan's Cannon is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Kublai Khan's Cannon has defeated Murky Waters's Cavalry!
Turn 360, 1670 AD: While defending, your Cavalry was destroyed by a Mongolian Cannon!
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Kublai Khan's Cavalry (16.50) vs Murky Waters's Cavalry (12.54)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Combat Odds: 86.1%
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 21 (55/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 21 (34/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Kublai Khan's Cavalry is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 21 (13/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Kublai Khan's Cavalry is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Cavalry is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Kublai Khan's Cavalry has defeated Murky Waters's Cavalry!
Turn 360, 1670 AD: While defending, your Cavalry was destroyed by a Mongolian Cavalry!
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Kublai Khan's Grenadier (13.20) vs Murky Waters's Grenadier (10.75)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Combat Odds: 74.2%
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (City Defense: +20%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Kublai Khan's Grenadier is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 18 (38/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Kublai Khan's Grenadier is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 18 (20/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Kublai Khan's Grenadier is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 18 (2/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Kublai Khan's Grenadier is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Kublai Khan's Grenadier is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier has defeated Kublai Khan's Grenadier!
Turn 360, 1670 AD: While defending, your Grenadier has killed a Mongolian Grenadier!
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Kublai Khan's Grenadier (12.00) vs Murky Waters's Grenadier (12.35)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Combat Odds: 58.3%
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 17 (54/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Kublai Khan's Grenadier is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Kublai Khan's Grenadier is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 17 (37/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Kublai Khan's Grenadier is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Kublai Khan's Grenadier is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 17 (20/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 17 (3/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Kublai Khan's Grenadier is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier has defeated Kublai Khan's Grenadier!
Turn 360, 1670 AD: While defending, your Grenadier has killed a Mongolian Grenadier!
Turn 360, 1670 AD: Kublai Khan adopts Mercantilism!

Turn 361, 1673 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Gao!
Turn 361, 1673 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Gao!
Turn 361, 1673 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier (14.40) vs Mao Zedong's Grenadier (14.40)
Turn 361, 1673 AD: Combat Odds: 50.0%
Turn 361, 1673 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 361, 1673 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 361, 1673 AD: (City Defense: +20%)
Turn 361, 1673 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 361, 1673 AD: Mao Zedong's Grenadier is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 361, 1673 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 361, 1673 AD: Mao Zedong's Grenadier is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 361, 1673 AD: Mao Zedong's Grenadier is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 361, 1673 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 361, 1673 AD: Mao Zedong's Grenadier is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 361, 1673 AD: Mao Zedong's Grenadier is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 361, 1673 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier has defeated Mao Zedong's Grenadier!
Turn 361, 1673 AD: Your Grenadier has destroyed a Grenadier!
Turn 361, 1673 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier (13.20) vs Mao Zedong's Rifleman (8.00)
Turn 361, 1673 AD: Combat Odds: 96.0%
Turn 361, 1673 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 361, 1673 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 361, 1673 AD: (City Defense: +20%)
Turn 361, 1673 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 361, 1673 AD: (Class Attack: -50%)
Turn 361, 1673 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 361, 1673 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 361, 1673 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 361, 1673 AD: Mao Zedong's Rifleman is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 361, 1673 AD: Mao Zedong's Rifleman is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 361, 1673 AD: Mao Zedong's Rifleman is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 361, 1673 AD: Mao Zedong's Rifleman is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 361, 1673 AD: Murky Waters's Grenadier has defeated Mao Zedong's Rifleman!
Turn 361, 1673 AD: Your Grenadier has destroyed a Rifleman!
Turn 361, 1673 AD: You have captured Hangzhou!!!


P.S. : A lot of battle lost even if AIs had just 20-30% odds. :cry:

OK Nice one Mitiu. No one likes us at the moment:cry: !

And our only friend is the one we want to attack!

Should we change our mind with our tactics guys?

I will look at the save tonight. nfora when will you play?

Just a quick pint guys. I find the turn log useful to let people know what has happened, but you do get a lot of crap in them.

I take out all the rubbish like the complete battle report for individual battles, I just leave the result in. There is other stuff I delete and just leave in the useful bits.

Would be good if everyone could do the same as it save a lot of time.

Cheers

JP

I'll probably play after supper... say 6ish hours from this post. My thought is to try to take action against the ai's we are already at war with if I can. Even if we want to do something else, we will at least need to beat them down a bit to get peace. Hopefully I won't cripple our forces.

Well, good luck.

I'm not sure there is anything you can do to save Gao from the position you have been left with, given the forces ranged against it.
I think Mao should settle for peace soon (- but of course he may not if he captures Gao). JPC is right - we should forget about Hatty and concentrate on the others. I am beginning to think Police State may be more useful now, as we need lots more units

On the 'plus side' I see Bismark is willing to go to war with the civ of our choice for Steel (he will also give us 350 gold as part of the deal, so make sure you get that too!). KK might be best if we can get peace with Mao soon - or maybe even Hatty?

Set him on Hatty, that should hold her back for a while. It may allow us to attack on her nothern tip after. Thinking about a strategy in general I think we should try and attack Mao for the following reasons:

1) His land area is smaller and once we take a city or two we will quite quickly take the rest of his land.

2) We need to get a route throught the "Straight of Gibraltar" (SOG, that gap between Mao and Hatty). I doubt we will get OB with Mao after peace and if we then start on Hatty the route would be closed off, or dangerous at least.

3) If we can take a couple of Mao citys on the southern tip of SOG it will act as a good spot to store an SOD to attack Hatty in the future.

4) The bugger declared war on us!

Good luck nfora.

By the way my computer crashed last night and I won't be able to get online at home, or play unless my work laptop will work on my home network. I may be a little quiet this weekend until it sorted.

Let's see first if we could keep Gao ...

Set him on Hatty, that should hold her back for a while. It may allow us to attack on her nothern tip after. Thinking about a strategy in general I think we should try and attack Mao for the following reasons:

1) His land area is smaller and once we take a city or two we will quite quickly take the rest of his land.

2) We need to get a route throught the "Straight of Gibraltar" (SOG, that gap between Mao and Hatty). I doubt we will get OB with Mao after peace and if we then start on Hatty the route would be closed off, or dangerous at least.

3) If we can take a couple of Mao citys on the southern tip of SOG it will act as a good spot to store an SOD to attack Hatty in the future.

4) The bugger declared war on us!

Sounds reasonable. The flip side is that in a turn or two we will be able to negotiate peace with Mao, whereas we will be fighting KK for at least another 10 turns - and we don't want too many enemies on the go at one time.
Perhaps we should negotiate peace with Mansa now also (rather than waiting for techs) - epecially as he is no longer fighting Bismark and can turn his full attention to us. We can get a reasonable amount of gold and gpt from him for peace this turn.

At least we're discovering what 'aggressive AI' really means now - should be good practice for the next GOTM ;)
Let's see first if we could keep Gao ...:rotfl:

:rotfl:

Mmm - Did I say something wrong ? :rolleyes:

Gonna be sometime tommorow morning before I play after all, so keep the suggestions coming!

Mmm - Did I say something wrong ? :rolleyes:

I am not sure as I can't see the save. How many units are stacked against Gao, how many do we have in Gao and how many reinforcements can we get from Cow Island?

I am guessing this info is the source of amusement!

I am not sure as I can't see the save. How many units are stacked against Gao, how many do we have in Gao and how many reinforcements can we get from Cow Island?


If I'm remember corectly ( didn't open the save right now ) - 5-6 mongol cavalry and 1 or 2 chinese units against 5-6 grenadiers ( 2 of them badly wounded ).
Bat - as we have 3 cats there probably is a ideea to make a preemptive attack against the ennemy cav's in order to soften all them before they attack ( and possible to gain some time to bring 1-2 riflemans from Cow Island ... :rolleyes: ).

But let's hope than our forces will win 5-6 battles with just 20-30% odds ... ;)

Perhaps we should consider a tactical retreat?

Perhaps we should consider a tactical retreat?