Had a quick look at the save, probably my question is to early... and may be answered in your post.. But...
Why Raze and pillage at this stage? With the Gemmines alone that city would have seriously contributed, once out of revolt...
Why Head east? Why not north?

Why are we running research while still building the Obs in Osaka?
We should be running 0% science till the Obs finish, easy win of quite some beakers. We can run 100% after it finish...

wow lots of cats beeing build :) Which is great if we are going to get Steel anytime soon.

Lets try and get Globe finished before we start whipping Sams in Kyoto... And lets try and get Sams up to CR3 before upgrading them to Grennies. Hatty should be broken by now....

General comment: despite the cry of 'units,'units'units' I mixed in quite a few infrastructure builds as well. Despite that we're keeping up with casualties and quite a bit of upgrading has been done so overall military has improved. Already war weariness is becoming a problem and it won't be long before WW is the problem.

1535.
research 0%.
Satsuma- whip market
Osaka- change to grocer
Cordoba- change to market
Barcelona- change to harbour
Madrid- change to harbour

1538.
Madrid- whip harbour.
Edo- whip market.
Cancel deals with Hatsy.
Bismark - his spices for our cows.
War (with Hatsy).
Land stackette near hosses.
Main stack heads to Elephantine.

1541.
Madrid- builds harbour, start frigate.
Edo - builds market, start frigate
Satsuma- builds workboat, starts cat.
Kagoshima- builds galleon, starts frigate.
Barcelona- whip harbour.
Fuji-whip barracks.
Main stack arrives at Elephantine.
Stackette captures hosses (defended by longbow).

1544.
Fuji builds barracks, start cat.
Barcelona builds harbour, starts sam
Pillage horses, keep pike and sam on top.
Tokyo whips grenadier.
Satsuma whips cat.
Madrid whips frigate.
Battle of Elephantine. Lose 5 cats. Get 200gold. Keep it. Minaret and Islam Holy City.

1547.
Tokyo builds gren, starts cat.
Satsuma builds cat, starts cat.
Seville builds sam, starts harbour.
Madird builds frigate, starts market.
Barcelona builds sam, starts galleon.
Kawisaki builds workboat, continues forge.
Edo whips frigate.
General upgrade of raiders to grenadiers in Elephantine.

1550.
Edo builds frigate, starts galleon.
Satsuma whips cat.
Madrid whips market.
Troops resting in Elephantine.
Couple of axes pillaging iron down south.

1553.
Pillaging axemen killed (take out mace and knight).
Tokyo builds cat, starts cat.
Osaka builds grocer, starts observatory.
Satsuma builds cat, starts cat.
Madrid builds market, starts cat.
Troops march towards Minoan (gem city)

1556.
Kyoto whips cat.

1559.
Battle of Elephantine. 3 egypt cav kill sam and cat. kamikaze 3 more cats to weaken cav, polish off with grenadiers.
Battle of Minoan. No casualties. 187gp. raze Minoan (in retrospect this was a bad move, should have kept it for happy gems, sorry chaps).
Seville whips harbour.
Increase research to 60% (break even), 23 turns to steel.

1562.
Seville builds harbour, starts cat.
Lose (empty) galleon to egypt galleon, sink egypt galleon (2longbow,settler).
Cordoba whips market.

1565.
Barcelona builds galleon, starts cat.
Cordoba builds market, starts frigate.
Troops surround egypt city (forgot itsname), ready to attack next round.

Started off the set with 14 sams, 2 swords, 3axes, 6 pikes, no grenadiers,22 cats, 6 galleons, no frigates.
Ended the set with 7 sams, no swords, no axes, 6 pikes,11 grenadiers, 22 cats, 8 galleons, 2 frigates.
Few builds, few losses, few upgrades. Currently top of power rating (tho not by much).

Messed up whipping in Kyoto so still several turns from Globe. Reason for going east is to clear some neutral space so our units can move 3 tiles a time rather than 1 tile a time through hostile territory, also gives alternate route between BT and Hokkiado.
Choice between heading north or south. If we want pointy stick research it may be better to head south, get peace with Hatsy then start on Biz while waiting for Hatsy peace treaty to expire.

Not a brilliant set though not a major cock-up either. In terms of infrastructure and research I remain convinced that we aren't going to win with just grens and cats; we also need to look at how to reduce war weariness (that's why I should have kept gem city); and we need to be able to sustain our economy when we're not plundering.

Good start Pigswill a shame about that Gem city though.

We might want to think about getting a settler there later on for the commerce but then again who knows.

Also checked KK will trade chemistry for education. He doesn't like hatty but it might still get to her. So at some point we might consider that. I suggest we keep the next city just for troop movement ability and landing area.

Gem mine city: Before griping at pigswill about not keeping the gem city, one should ask himself "Did I mark it as a keeper before ending my turnset?" IMO, it would have been nice for some commerce but other than that it was marginal. In fact, until we get the FP or Versailles, the maintenance would have probably eaten up a lot of the extra commerce anyway. You guys also seem to forget that with 0 culture, Hatty would have still controlled one, if not two, of the three mines. Concerning the happiness, we already have our own gems on Hokkaido so we didn't need them for that reason. If we just really can't live without them, then we can always plop a settler down there after finishing Hatty and taking Versailles. What if Bismarck gets them you say? So what, he's next on the hit list right? We need to be mindful of our greed and not let it tempt us into an unintentional domination victory.

My intent at the moment is to raze Niani and Anasazi, pillaging the entire area as I go. I probably won't make it to Anasazi before ten turns are finished but Niani is a goner unless you guys can give me some really solid reasons to keep such a marginal city. If it were something like 1 tile south, it might be good for whipping once the borders popped. As it stands though, I think it holds little value.

Reasons to pillage and raze marginal cities:

1. We have to garrison them. These defensive units cost us and do little to help further the war effort. They are only worthwhile if the city's value far exceeds the cost.

2. We have to pay for them. More cities means more maintenance, not just for that city but for ALL cities. So each new city needs to pay for itself PLUS the extra maintenance it generates in the other cities. Otherwise, you end up with a negative return.

3. More cities = more MM in addition to prosecuting a nearly continuous war. That will become a distraction. Being distracted means making poor decisions which means getting less out of the city than we had intended, making it less valuable to us.

Even Memphis, when you think about it, will become less valuable with time. The more Jewish cities we raze, the less income we get from the shrine. Is this a reason to keep all Jewish cities? Of course not. We can't because we can't get a domination win. So why keep one or two for this reason? Is the couple of gold those cities generate in the shrine worth the extra maintenance and added micromanagement?

Anyway, those are my thoughts/rants for the moment. As usual, they are subject to change :) I will look at things a bit more closely this evening when I sit down to play.

Great to come back and see we've begun a nice little war. Of course I expected to see a "discussion" ongoing tween Namliam and Cosmichail and I was rewarded ;).

I do agree with LTB: if it aint' marked as a keeper, then I probably won't keep it. The jewish shrine is a great keep for the start of our war because of all the cities that are out there right now. Yes as we raize those cities, our income drops, but that also means our army is rolling and the pillage income will make up for small loses in gpt.

If we kept all of germany and egypt, we would probably be around 40-50% of the land. That's not close to domination, but it certainly means that keeping other cities will be a tough decision. Being a bit miserly here will allow us a bit more freedom way down the line.

Also - WW will be an ongoing problem. We need to plan spots of peace in between blitzkrieg style wars. Attack hard and fast, then once it starts to stagnate/slow - settle for peace. This way our units can heal up for the next blitz AND our cities can continue to produce. Yes as soon as you redeclare war the WW pops right up, BUT with healed units we'll be able to win (and wipe out) faster.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking. I hope I didn't confuse anyone into thinking we should raze Memphis :eek: I just meant that keeping marginal cities solely because they are Jewish and give us 1 gold in the shrine city isn't something I would consider a convincing argument.

At what point should we sue for peace and start preparations for a second whack at Hatty? After Niani and Anasazi? Try to get Memphis or Versailles first? Are we going to hit Bismarck during those ten turns? I assume we want to keep Bismarck happy while finishing off Hatty. He'll have one less friend to help him out then.

Just a quick update of the current war front picture (this might be helpful to see each turn of war)...

http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/6785/civ4screenshot0000fg7.jpg



Looking at the save, I'd agree that Niani and Anasazi dont bring much to our war effort aside from giving us a "secure" landing point. Not a huge deal tho. Neither is villaged up.

Heliopolis would probably be a good keep, but will be under some tight german pressure for a while. We need to be very careful with Mycenian. It does that Versailles, but as soon as we capture it, its going to be under intense german pressure. That means we should plan on going to war with Germany within a few turns of taking Mycenian. Also, buying Bismark into the war right now would be less then helpful. He would take Mycenian right away and probably reinforce it much better then Hatty has.

We can't afford to settle for peace with Hatty right now since she can sit back and reclaim her lands with cultural pressure. IMO, I wouldn't pointy stick research until she's down to 2-3 cities left on the ring (if not less). Perhaps leave Mycenian, Alexandria, and Pi-Ramses for last. So yes, clear the middle of her lands, but then turn our stacks north. If we can pillage her two copper in the south then so much the better. BTW, if you folks agree with this "plan", then I might suggest keeping Anasazi as a starting point in the second war against Hatty and as a buffer against resettling by the AIs.

Couple other thoughts. Hatty still has workers out in the field... they make me just.... ever so greedy. More importantly tho, we've all seen the AI make repeated attempts to resettle raized sites. I think that raizing the gem site may work for us. Hatty will obviously attempt to resettle there soon (or heck Biz may make it his new home). Any time we can get two military units in the field, well that's a good thing. So keep an eye out for escorted settlers or newly founded cities. Should be easy pickings (and exp) for our forces.

Finally, I'm too lazy to go look, but what's the updated whipping windows for Kyoto now that we have HE there?

I'd totally forgotten we had gems in Osaka. I retract my apology for razing gem city. In terms of cities to keep: only if it has a non-obselete wonder or a happy resource we don't already have or its a holy city. Everything else should be razed regardless of how developed it is.
Is it worth taking out China after Egypt? It's the most advanced civ around and blocks half the strait between BT and Hokkiado. We've now got the sealift capacity.
We've got enough sams/grens/pikes for two stacks once they're rearranged and probably enough cats to at least knock down defences; I think that we should basically be focussing on cats and garrison troops for military production, few more frigates for protection.

not a major cock-upI definatly agree... :)

I didnt mark anything for keeps. I did mention that we will (IMHO) want to keep most if not all of Hatty and Bismark...
1) It is "free" production
2) They is all Judaist => Shrine
3) They is Judaist, we too => Culture

Any remnance of Egypt culture will soon be gone with... Sure our GPT may drop (a little) in the short run. In the mid-long run we simply need production and some gpt to keep our army alive...
Pillaging mines brings nearly nothing .... Why even bother? The 1 turn extra spend in moving alone costs us more for beeing in enemy teritory....

Gems definatly are not needed for the happy... But for the production and added commerce...

1 true
2 Not completely true, we dont anymore need (much) commerce... What we need is production, which additional cities can give. Additional $$ does not gives hammers (unless we have heaps of money and are in US)
3 Just build a barracks and set it to allways build a catapult, they are never wasted.

Memphis => Dont raze any Judust cities (in particular in Germany and Egypt)

Re: Niani and Anasize, I think we can all agree that they are marginal at best... Then why go after them NOW?? We have 2 tasty cities (memphis and Thebes, for keeps) just to our north and we are going after marginal cities to raze?
Take the tasty cities and leave Hatty with the marginal ones, for some techs and 10 turns later, with the marginal cities she will still be nothing. With Memphis and Thebes in tact she could build again some (smallish) army and give us some grief getting her out of the game.

Whipping windows dont change... They are still the same... I.e.
Samurai/Grennie:
1) Produce
2) Whip for 2 pop
3) Produce
4) Whip for 1 pop
5) See 3

I suggest whipping (defensive?) grennies in Kyoto and spamming Sams and Catapults everywhere else....

Re: The Obs and Research. If we are running 0% science now while we have NO Obs in Osaka, we can run 100% for a few turns after we build it. Thus we gain free beakers... I dont see getting free beakers as slowing tech down??

Observatory completes in two turns.

Cats are good; cannon are better. More damage, better survival chance means 8 cannon are equivalent to 20 cats; 20 cats cost 40gpt maintenance, 8 cannon cost 16 gpt maintenance (actually its more complex coz you lose cats vs infantry at an alarming rate then you've got to transport the replacements to the front line). China's got rifles already, you can be sure we'll be up against infantry before the end of the game.
Better survival also means field promotions; few cats will get even a single promotion in battle.

I am not disputing the fact that we need Cannons, I am disputing that had you either not yet started the obs or turned science to 0% This would hurt us. I dont think it would...

At current it is steel in 20 at 60%, logic would say that we can run 6 or 7 turns without any science then run 100% for x turns (with an Obs in Osaka) and be done before 20 turns are over.

Keeping cities on the mainland (in particular in the early going) saves us in a lot of ways IMHO.
1) Added commerce => More tech?
2) More production => More Units
3) More pop => More support for our army
4) Shorter supply routes => Any unit build on the mainland is at least 4 turns earlier to the fight than one build on Hokkaido (same as BT)

Why?? WHY?? would we want to raze any cities? Cause they may drop us a few GPT? We have GPT to spare (even not counting the shrine!).
We gain 200gold every city, Pigswill just captured 2 cities in 10 turns thats 40gpt folks.... 40! What city can produce that even at 0% Science? Right at this time near none (Baring Osaka and Madrid) of our cities. Units !
If we have 30 Sams for every Modern Armor we ware it down and kill it. If we have 10 Riffles we fail.

If we have enough units we can move on 3 or even 4 stacks, thus lowering WW which you are fearing so much. And 4 stacks move 4 times as fast... But we need production to support 4 stacks. 4 stacks of Grenies/Sams/Cats(cannons) now (and continuing that) IMHO is much better than continuing with 1 stack and Ending up upgrading all our cannons to Artilery and sams/grennies to Modern Armor for the last city to raze....

Hey I was just agreeing with Pigswill but he retracted so am I. Do think we could use production too like NamliaM (this is getting scary we are agreeing more and more)
To be honest I don't care if we raze it all. Raze the shrine too while you're at it. Hate that religious citiy being pyscho and all. That way nobody gets any money or spying. Lacking culture has to be rectified soon. We need to have theocracy to for improved units down the road. I think too we should go for Mao next as well since he is teching the fastest. So far grennies (promoted with CR) will fine against rifles but I would like to see us have Cavalry as well.

I don't think we should let Hatty off the hook until she is finished. My main reason is this. Once we get peace she will quickly seek an DP with Bismarck and give us grief. It happened to me in a SP game and better to finish them off so raze as much as possible, let the stupid AI settle whereever it wants and do the same to Mao. Get rid of two civilizations in one swoop with this army and then prepare a more advanced army for the next round. Bismarck.

Of course I expected to see a "discussion" ongoing tween Namliam and Cosmichail and I was rewarded .


Two dutchmans not in debate is like George Bush not having his stupid hat on. (and mike on his back for intelligent debate)

We can of course run binary research which will help marginally by correcting rounding errors but probably by less than one turn and only if the cash isn't siphoned off into upgrades.
Still an unresolved argument about theocracy and which religion (confu or judaism); ideally we'd have one religion throughout our empire (given that every city will be producing units either most or all of the time). At the moment confu is more widespread than judaism; we have the shrine already with some money multipliers so I would say spread confu starting with Osaka, next build in Osaka should be confu monastery and Osaka should spend most of the time producing confu missionaries to spread confu to all our cities.
namliaM will of course disagree strongly and say either we don't need a religion or if so it should be judaism.

Edit: yes to polishing off Hatsy as first objective, not forgetting her city in Hokkiado. It might pay to set caravels on autoexplore just in case there are specks of land that an AI can hide away after all other cities destroyed.

I say screw it and go confused now and start using theocracy for new units. Judaism is a while away before it proves effective and Kyoto isn't going to give us enough units compared to Hokkaido (although impressive, most impressive.) Sooner or later we want that Globe too so that will take a few more whips with the cats at Kyoto taking away from building Grennies which we should be doing in Osaka as it has the best production. Maybe break for monastery but I don't think we can at war worry about spreading confused from Osaka until we have more grennies. We are in it for the long haul and going to need a huge army. Maybe Tokyo/Satsuma can help with that but Cordoba could be used for spreading the religion but personally I don't see it as a priorty and more so think we need soldiers.

Good luck LTB.......(long train bullet)

faster than a speeding bullet........

Being in Judaism was basically to get the positive modifiers to keep Hatty off us and Bismark open to letting us use his lands. Those requirements are gone now. We have a landing, and I could care less what Hatty thinks of us. NSR is nice since it gives us culture everywhere, but no benefit from Theo (I think, never tested that). Confusing our citizens results in Hokkiado produced units being more exprienced, but until we make it to the other side of the ring, that's going to be a longer and longer walk for them.


Any thought to going to vassalage for the extra, extra exp?

Re: Niani and Anasize, I think we can all agree that they are marginal at best... Then why go after them NOW?? We have 2 tasty cities (memphis and Thebes, for keeps) just to our north and we are going after marginal cities to raze?
Take the tasty cities and leave Hatty with the marginal ones, for some techs and 10 turns later, with the marginal cities she will still be nothing. With Memphis and Thebes in tact she could build again some (smallish) army and give us some grief getting her out of the game.
Again, I'd suggest capturing/raizing everything north of our current line and then with Hatty down to threeish Ring cities and one on Hokkiado, make her a pointy stick target. A ten turn pause to reheal and increase our stacks isn't a bad thing at this juncture - heck it lets us set up our next invasion. I'm advocating pointy sticking here because she has a military tech we'd like to have.

Finally, pillaging *any* resource outside of our kept city borders benefits us:

Deny upgrades to newly founded AI cities - slows em down.
extra gold is never a bad thing
if it lures out counter attackers, they're easier to kill.

Of course leave roads untouched. Can explorers pillage? If so, they're pretty cheap and with two moves can pillage and move in the same turn. Makes em pretty optimal. If you can manage to get one medic promoted then so much the better. It doesn't hurt us to lose these guys if it draws out defenders and I'm sure they'll pay for themselves quickly by releaving our attackers from pillage duty.

Any thought to going to vassalage for the extra, extra exp?


It would hurt cost wise as we would loose bureaucracy. (if we can withstand to loose some coin/science but I think it's tight right now)

We would loose 2 turns of anarchy too with one changing religion to Confused and one changing to theocracy.

I'm advocating pointy sticking here because she has a military tech we'd like to have.


Make sure we time it right so as Hatty doesn't go into DP. If we can do it with Cease fire only but I don't think we can.

I like the idea of trying to sway the opposing force out into the open with a unit that they like to go after. Workers can be enticing too for the AI to go after.

Sounds like we are on the right track a balance so to speak.

Once we get peace she will quickly seek an DP with Bismarck and give us grief.
1) Hatty will be nothing to worry about at that point with little nothing towns left...
2) We will/should declare war on Bismark soon either way...
3) We get Nationalism for FREE, possibly some other tech too?, that puts us that much close to Cavs (which you want so badly)
4) Not researching nationalism saves us Money which we can use badly for the Cat => Cannon upgrades (one time) and the ongoing Sam => Gren upgrades...
5) I do not like to see us getting Riffling anytime, cause then we lose the ability to build units that get CR promotions.

... will help marginally ... Marginally !!! Yes if it is only the binary research. Turning of science before we were building the Obs in Osaka, will mean 25% bonus in Osaka. I posted this a while back and did an complete calculation on it. IIRC doing 10 turns 0% (No Obs) + 10 turns 100% (With obs) saved more than 1 turn of research. Which is 5% of our research budget, which (again IMHO) is nothing to sneeze at....

And all this for Cannons, yes they may be nice and harder to lose .... but are harder to replace as well. Good news may well be IIRC a Cannon is as expensive as a Grenny, if that is so.... We can whip cannons as easy as Grennies in Kyoto and rule the world with Cannons.
As much as I was in favour of ruling the world with Sams and Cats (which I still think we could have done, tho with a higher casualty rate). We can surely rule with Grennies and Cannons. IMHO no need for Cavs and certainly no need for anything beyond Cavs.

We do need a religion if only for the 2xp (thus CR2 out of the Barracks). Having CR2 out of the barracks on Sams may make them promotable to Grens, tho offcourse CR3 (just a few selective battles away) makes them that much stronger. We can use Hokkaido to produce (mainly) dispensable units (Cats/Cannons). While we build Sams on the mainland.
Beeing Judaist tho lets us spy on Germany and China, even while at war... Which means we can see troop placement/movement.... Intel can be very valuable.

pillaging *any* resource outside of our kept city borders Sure pillage away, but I think we should keep each and every city in Egypt and Germany.... For reasons I allready posted. Plus it really adds speed
1) No pillaging to slow us
2) More units in the end => More speed.

Explorers IIRC cannot pillage...
Worker lure is not needed IMHO... No AI can hold us back at the moment.

This has been said before, if we can make 2 stacks 1 going north and 1 going south from Elephantine.
North goes, Memphis, Thebes, Heliopolis... Depending order on do we go after Germany next? Or China?
South Goes Alexandria (KEEP), Pi Ramesses (Marginal at best, razable in my book) and finaly Mycenian.
South definatly goes on straight into Germany, also due to the culture problem(s) at Mycenian. Once we capture Berline (with HE) Germany is done for.

Why go after marginal cities now, when we can leave Hatty them and know she can do nothing with them... Even signing a DP, WHOPPIE, without effective units WHO cares if she signs a DP....

Edit 1)
I think losing Burocracy is a bad thing in comparing to getting 2xp... If need be lets get out of Theo and into Paganism and screw the XP... However it will take considerable time to earn back the turn(s) of Anarchy (money wize) and we will never catch up Production wize. So I think we leave it as is...

Edit 2)
We should try and find a balance on Hokkaido, only producing sams and cats/cannons there. Cats only till we have steel (for mass upgrades), then a building sprea of Sams (to replace the once we lost in the past 20 turns). Then a balance...
While we spam (defensive i.e. no CR promotions) Grennies from Kyoto.

Remember: Kyoto doesnt have Globe yet, Please switch the Sam to a Cat and whip that cat and another cat and another till we have the Globe it is THE #1 priority at the moment...

The danger in a DP is that it gets us into a war with another power before we want to. Yes, if she DPs with Bismark, its no big deal since he's next (basically to remove pressure on Versailles). But if she picks up someone else, that might make our next "whopping" a bit more involved then I'd like. Yes, it looks like we have a powerful stroke, but not if we end up warring with the world.

I don't think we can split our stack right now. That cav mini stack in Thebes is hanging out there and could decimate a half size stack.

Pillaging will not slow us down if we use non-attacking units - perhaps units intended for garrison duty. We've got a few extra units in Hokkiado right now (archers?). Upgrade them and use a small force of our more defensive units to scrape the land clean of everything but roads. We don't have cities to hold right now, but will in the near future. Get the garrisons moving and they can be ready to defend (thus relieving our offensive forces). I do want to keep in mind that we need to be careful of Hokkiado landings, but as we continue to increase our navy, those chances will go down.

Its too bad explorers can't pillage. They'd be the perfect unit to pair with a caravel for comando striking resources at the start of a war. Dream on Bobrath, Dream on.

So your "short" list for keeps:
Memphis - Jewish Shrine
Thebes - Capital site
Heliopolis - developed town and ?
Alexandria - ???
Mycenian - Versailles

Why Alexandria?

IMHO, we need to have "short" lists for every civ before we attack them. That way folks are on the same page and we don't have any more gem "incidents". ;)

Pre-Turn
Whipped the samurai in Kyoto, the frigate in Edo, and the other frigate in Kagoshima. Turned science down to 0% for upgrades or an increased science rate later.

Turn 1
Captured and razed Niani. Continued on to Anasazi.

Turn 2
Completed an observatory in Osaka. Increased science to 80%. WW becoming a serious issue. The garrison should have been larger. We are tending to lose a lot of cats which is causing severe WW pretty early in the campaign. Cannons are a serious need and more galleons for lightening strikes as bobrath points out. A slow moving SOD does us little good. The AI reinforces before we get there and whittles us down as we move.

Turn 3
Continued the assault on Anasazi. We don't yet have the troops in place for a successful capture. I've been trying to get galleons in place to load and move towards Memphis after taking and razing Anasazi.

Turn 4
Awesome!! Check out the "suicide" catapult which attacked the LBM in Anasazi. His odds of winning were 0.4% and, can you believe it, he won! He went from like 4 or 5 XP to 12XP! Almost makes up for all of those times the RNGod frowns upon 90+ odds. This time ole Hatty was on the receiving end of an angry RNGod. I couldn't resist. I named him Lucky Bastard. Anyway, we took and razed Anasazi. Time for a serious pillage party while moving on Memphis.

Turn 5
Continued the pillage party and moved more troops by sea to Memphis. I would like to see us take Memphis before ending the war.

Turn 6
Hatty offers 380gold for peace. I decline. I figure we can get that or better about any time we want and I don't feel like we want it just yet. Her cavalry is having a pillage party around Elephantine. The odds for attack suck so I have been avoiding confrontation. She finally attempts a cavalry charge into Elephantine but fails. She seemed to be sending cavalry from the south. I thought that was odd given that her only known cavalry was holed up in Thebes. I checked the diplo screen and sure enough she has obtained horses from KK in exchange for dye. We might want to see about taking out her dye plantations or convincing KK to knock it off. I'd hate to face even more cavalry after 10 turns.

Turn 7
I managed to get the defenses down in Memphis and take the city. Unfortunately, I really don't have sufficient forces to hold the city without exposing the expended stack of catapults to an onslaught of cavalry from Thebes. So I thought it might be prudent to see about a peace deal and buy some time to reinforce. I hate the idea of doing that while she still has the ability to build cavalry but I don't see any real alternative without taking a big risk and needlessly losing units. I have no units in position to take out her dyes and thus end the horse deal. We should certainly aim there first when war recommences. I tried some pointy stick research but she's being stubborn. I started out big by suggesting Nationalism, Printing Press, Education, and her 380 gold. Yeah, it was a pipe dream but you might as well start off trying to get all of the marbles right? Well, as to be expected, no can do. I dropped Education. Still a no go. I dropped the Printing Press. Nope, not gonna do it. So, no Nationalism for us either. I tried two more times with just Education and just Printing Press. Still not interested. Well, I'm kind of in a situation where I take what I can get or risk losing Memphis to a counterattack. I cursed, a lot, and settled for her 380gold. Stubborn b**ch.

Turn 8
Several LBMs completed in Hokkaido. I was building LBMs for garrison because there didn't seem to be a serious threat and the LBMs were cheap garrison units to build for countering WW. Granted, they wouldn't stand up well against a serious invasion and we can't upgrade them until Rifling. So, in hindsight, I might should have built crossbows. Anyway, I start on Grenadiers now that we have a little more time to build a garrison. We could use some more offensive units too but we have enough cats to make short work of defenders. Her cavalry will be the biggest threat but hopefully she won't be able to build many. We will have cannons soon too and that will help soften up cavalry for counterattacks by grenadiers.

Turn 9
I spent this turn getting the rest of the army moved into Memphis. I have a few galleons on standby to move them quickly around the coast to Thebes. I have a couple more galleons being moved into position between Hokkaido and Ringworld. I was using some shuttle galleons to get me to Memphis more quickly. I am preparing to resume the sealift.

Turn 10
I looked around the map now that we have some spying ability. It's too bad we're not in a position to take bismarck right now. He's much weaker than I would have expected. He has a number of units but right now they are pretty much just LBMs, macemen, etc. I don't see any riflemen or cavalry yet. I think we'd all like to have more units but at the moment, we'll have to do the best we can to finish Hatty off. If we can build more than we replace, things will go well.

The Globe should finally be completed in the next round. It's not been an efficient build but at least its almost there. I managed to keep it mostly on track. I missed a catpult build/whip early on I think. I was building the Globe directly for a turn, maybe two before I realized I had forgotten to go back and put in a catapult build and then whip it for the overflow. I think it would have still been the next round before it completed but we could have probably had it a couple of turns earlier. I wouldn't recommend we remove any units until the Globe is complete. Whipping unhappiness is ridiculous and the WW plus "We want Emancipation" only makes things worse. Hatty screwed us even worse when she adopted Emancipation.

I'm sure I will be the subject of wrath for some decisions that I have made. I'm sure I could be convinced that some decisions could have been better. I don't feel the need to expend a lot of energy defending my decisions this time around. I made what I thought were the best decisions I could make under the circumstances and with the forces at hand. Some will obviously gripe about not keeping Egyptian cities. I say its stupid to use offensive units to garrison marginal cities when I should be using them to maintain our momentum and hurt Hatty as badly as possible. I only regret I couldn't have moved towards Thebes and kept us at war. However, in the spirit of General Douglas MacArthur, "We shall return dear Hatty, we shall return."

TurnLog:

Turn 325, 1565 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier (13.20) vs Hatshepsut's Musketman (9.90)
Turn 325, 1565 AD: Combat Odds: 78.1%
Turn 325, 1565 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 325, 1565 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 325, 1565 AD: Hatshepsut's Musketman is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 325, 1565 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 325, 1565 AD: Hatshepsut's Musketman is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 325, 1565 AD: Hatshepsut's Musketman is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 325, 1565 AD: Hatshepsut's Musketman is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 325, 1565 AD: Hatshepsut's Musketman is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 325, 1565 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier has defeated Hatshepsut's Musketman!
Turn 325, 1565 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier (13.20) vs Hatshepsut's Catapult (5.00)
Turn 325, 1565 AD: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 325, 1565 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 325, 1565 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier is hit for 12 (88/100HP)
Turn 325, 1565 AD: Hatshepsut's Catapult is hit for 31 (69/100HP)
Turn 325, 1565 AD: Hatshepsut's Catapult is hit for 31 (38/100HP)
Turn 325, 1565 AD: Hatshepsut's Catapult is hit for 31 (7/100HP)
Turn 325, 1565 AD: Hatshepsut's Catapult is hit for 31 (0/100HP)
Turn 325, 1565 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier has defeated Hatshepsut's Catapult!
Turn 325, 1565 AD: You have trained a Samurai in Kyoto. Work has now begun on Globe Theatre.
Turn 325, 1565 AD: You have trained a Frigate in Edo. Work has now begun on a Longbowman.
Turn 325, 1565 AD: You have trained a Frigate in Kagoshima. Work has now begun on a Longbowman.
Turn 325, 1565 AD: Hatshepsut adopts Vassalage!
Turn 325, 1565 AD: Hatshepsut adopts Emancipation!
Turn 325, 1565 AD: Hatshepsut adopts Theocracy!

Turn 326, 1568 AD: VQ Black's Catapult (5.00) vs Hatshepsut's Longbowman (7.80)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: Combat Odds: 6.3%
Turn 326, 1568 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman has defeated VQ Black's Catapult!
Turn 326, 1568 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier (13.20) vs Hatshepsut's Longbowman (5.73)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: Combat Odds: 99.4%
Turn 326, 1568 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 29 (62/100HP)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 29 (33/100HP)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 29 (4/100HP)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier is hit for 13 (61/100HP)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier has defeated Hatshepsut's Longbowman!
Turn 326, 1568 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier (13.20) vs Hatshepsut's Crossbowman (4.55)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 326, 1568 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: Hatshepsut's Crossbowman is hit for 32 (59/100HP)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: Hatshepsut's Crossbowman is hit for 32 (27/100HP)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: Hatshepsut's Crossbowman is hit for 32 (0/100HP)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier has defeated Hatshepsut's Crossbowman!
Turn 326, 1568 AD: VQ Black's Samurai (8.80) vs Hatshepsut's Longbowman (4.05)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: Combat Odds: 99.7%
Turn 326, 1568 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 326, 1568 AD: VQ Black's Samurai has defeated Hatshepsut's Longbowman!
Turn 326, 1568 AD: You have captured Niani!!!
Turn 326, 1568 AD: You have destroyed the city of Niani!!!
Turn 326, 1568 AD: You have constructed a Observatory in Osaka. Work has now begun on a Longbowman.

Turn 327, 1571 AD: Hatshepsut's Catapult (5.00) vs VQ Black's Grenadier (13.20)
Turn 327, 1571 AD: Combat Odds: 0.1%
Turn 327, 1571 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 327, 1571 AD: Hatshepsut's Catapult is hit for 31 (69/100HP)
Turn 327, 1571 AD: Hatshepsut's Catapult is hit for 31 (38/100HP)
Turn 327, 1571 AD: Hatshepsut's Catapult is hit for 31 (7/100HP)
Turn 327, 1571 AD: Hatshepsut's Catapult is hit for 31 (0/100HP)
Turn 327, 1571 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier has defeated Hatshepsut's Catapult!

Turn 328, 1574 AD: You have trained a Longbowman in Tokyo. Work has now begun on a Longbowman.

Turn 329, 1577 AD: VQ Black's Catapult (5.00) vs Hatshepsut's Longbowman (10.50)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Combat Odds: 0.4%
Turn 329, 1577 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 13 (61/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 13 (48/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 13 (35/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 13 (22/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 13 (9/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 13 (0/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: VQ Black's Catapult has defeated Hatshepsut's Longbowman!
Turn 329, 1577 AD: VQ Black's Catapult (5.00) vs Hatshepsut's Musketman (10.88)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Combat Odds: 0.6%
Turn 329, 1577 AD: (Fortify: +5%)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Hatshepsut's Musketman is hit for 13 (80/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 29 (71/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Hatshepsut's Musketman is hit for 13 (67/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 29 (42/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 29 (13/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Hatshepsut's Musketman has defeated VQ Black's Catapult!
Turn 329, 1577 AD: VQ Black's Samurai (8.80) vs Hatshepsut's Musketman (7.83)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Combat Odds: 81.9%
Turn 329, 1577 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: (Fortify: +5%)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Hatshepsut's Musketman is hit for 18 (49/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Hatshepsut's Musketman is hit for 18 (31/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: VQ Black's Samurai is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Hatshepsut's Musketman is hit for 18 (13/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: VQ Black's Samurai is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Hatshepsut's Musketman is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: VQ Black's Samurai has defeated Hatshepsut's Musketman!
Turn 329, 1577 AD: VQ Black's Samurai (8.80) vs Hatshepsut's Longbowman (5.16)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Combat Odds: 97.7%
Turn 329, 1577 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 24 (58/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 24 (34/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 24 (10/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: VQ Black's Samurai is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: VQ Black's Samurai has defeated Hatshepsut's Longbowman!
Turn 329, 1577 AD: VQ Black's Samurai (8.80) vs Hatshepsut's Pikeman (2.88)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 329, 1577 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Hatshepsut's Pikeman is hit for 32 (50/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Hatshepsut's Pikeman is hit for 32 (18/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Hatshepsut's Pikeman is hit for 32 (0/100HP)
Turn 329, 1577 AD: VQ Black's Samurai has defeated Hatshepsut's Pikeman!
Turn 329, 1577 AD: You have captured Anasazi!!!
Turn 329, 1577 AD: You have destroyed the city of Anasazi!!!
Turn 329, 1577 AD: You have trained a Catapult in Kyoto. Work has now begun on Globe Theatre.
Turn 329, 1577 AD: Abu Bakr has been born in Cologne!

Turn 330, 1580 AD: You have plundered 14 from the Plantation!
Turn 330, 1580 AD: You have trained a Longbowman in Osaka. Work has now begun on a Longbowman.
Turn 330, 1580 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry (18.00) vs VQ Black's Grenadier (22.80)
Turn 330, 1580 AD: Combat Odds: 24.3%
Turn 330, 1580 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 330, 1580 AD: (Extra Combat: +40%)
Turn 330, 1580 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 330, 1580 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 330, 1580 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 330, 1580 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 330, 1580 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 330, 1580 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 330, 1580 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 330, 1580 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 330, 1580 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 330, 1580 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier has defeated Hatshepsut's Cavalry!

Turn 331, 1583 AD: You have plundered 64 from the Hamlet!
Turn 331, 1583 AD: You have plundered 14 from the Cottage!
Turn 331, 1583 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry (16.50) vs VQ Black's Grenadier (19.20)
Turn 331, 1583 AD: Combat Odds: 28.8%
Turn 331, 1583 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 331, 1583 AD: (Extra Combat: +40%)
Turn 331, 1583 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 331, 1583 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 331, 1583 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 331, 1583 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 331, 1583 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 331, 1583 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 331, 1583 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 331, 1583 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 331, 1583 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 331, 1583 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 331, 1583 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 331, 1583 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 331, 1583 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 331, 1583 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry has defeated VQ Black's Grenadier!
Turn 331, 1583 AD: Mansa Musa adopts Free Religion!

Turn 332, 1586 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Elephantine!
Turn 332, 1586 AD: You have plundered 34 from the Village!
Turn 332, 1586 AD: You have plundered 94 from the Cottage!
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Memphis to 16%!
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Memphis to 0%!
Turn 332, 1586 AD: VQ Black's Catapult (5.00) vs Hatshepsut's Longbowman (9.00)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Combat Odds: 1.8%
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: VQ Black's Catapult (5.00) vs Hatshepsut's Maceman (8.46)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Combat Odds: 3.6%
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Hatshepsut's Maceman is hit for 15 (77/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Hatshepsut's Maceman is hit for 15 (62/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Hatshepsut's Maceman is hit for 15 (47/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: VQ Black's Catapult (5.00) vs Hatshepsut's Longbowman (6.39)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Combat Odds: 18.7%
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 16 (66/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 16 (50/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 16 (34/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 16 (18/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman has defeated VQ Black's Catapult!
Turn 332, 1586 AD: VQ Black's Samurai (10.40) vs Hatshepsut's Longbowman (5.30)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Combat Odds: 98.8%
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 23 (29/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 23 (6/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: VQ Black's Samurai has defeated Hatshepsut's Longbowman!
Turn 332, 1586 AD: VQ Black's Samurai (8.80) vs Hatshepsut's Maceman (5.07)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Combat Odds: 99.0%
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Hatshepsut's Maceman is hit for 21 (26/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Hatshepsut's Maceman is hit for 21 (5/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Hatshepsut's Maceman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: VQ Black's Samurai has defeated Hatshepsut's Maceman!
Turn 332, 1586 AD: VQ Black's Pikeman (7.20) vs Hatshepsut's Longbowman (1.62)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: VQ Black's Pikeman is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Hatshepsut's Longbowman is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: VQ Black's Pikeman has defeated Hatshepsut's Longbowman!
Turn 332, 1586 AD: You have captured a Worker
Turn 332, 1586 AD: You have captured Memphis!!!
Turn 332, 1586 AD: You have made peace with Hatshepsut!
Turn 332, 1586 AD: You have trained a Catapult in Kyoto. Work has now begun on Globe Theatre.

Turn 333, 1589 AD: You have plundered 144 from the Hamlet!
Turn 333, 1589 AD: You have plundered 104 from the Cottage!
Turn 333, 1589 AD: You have constructed a Forge in Khoisan. Work has now begun on a Harbor.

Turn 335, 1595 AD: You have plundered 304 from the Village!
Turn 335, 1595 AD: You have plundered 164 from the Hamlet!
Turn 335, 1595 AD: You have plundered 114 from the Cottage!
Turn 335, 1595 AD: You have plundered 64 from the Workshop!

Current Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm2/VQ_Black_SG002_AD1595_01.Civ4SavedGame)

Current Roster:

bobrath -> on deck
namliaM
Cosmichail
pigswill
LuvToBuild -> just played
eektor -> UP or skip?

WHO cares if she signs a DP....

Like Bob points out she could sign with more than one civ. What if she signs with Mao and Bismarck. Good luck with that. Just something to consider and can prove to be a pain if it does happen with more than one civ.

You think we could rule the world with sams however to be honest I don't think we will even rule the world long with grennies. (PS if one of these guys get Machine gunners, grennies/rifles/cat really suck big time against those.)

I agree with binary research but it can be forgotten or overlooked sometimes. Needs lots of mming.

If we go for that Mycenian we are going to have to blitz into Germany as we are going to suffer culture strain there for sure and maybe even loose it. Considering that the bismarck would be our next target but techwise I think Mao is moving the fastest and needs to be slowed down.

Also NamliaM I don't think we could "rule the world" taking all of the cities in Germany/Egypt without it costing us troops to garrison. We have a good stack but we could use a lot more. I take it we can still build Sams to get the CR promotion and then upgrade to Gren. Good idea the CR is quite good against rifles/city. I don't concur that we could stop at cavalry and see science as an ongoing thing but could be binary or turned off for upgrades from time to time. The AI is teching too fast but once we put a dent in the major players that will ease quite a bit.

Pointy stick doesn't always work the way you'd expect. I have taken down civs to their last three or four cities and they refuse to give any tech at all. Very frustrating and even won't give a thing when they are at their last city. So sometimes you get something but a lot of the time nothing.

She certainly could and probably will sign a DP with Mao, perhaps Bismarck as well. I might could have gotten away with holding Memphis and not signed a peace treaty. I just wasn't sure I wanted to take the risk and our unhappiness was quickly becoming a problem.

So, what is our plan to prevent a Jewish bloc DP from stalling our conquest? The one thing about Mao is that he either has to conduct a naval landing or travel the full circumference of the ring.

Options for Mao:
1. We try to get KK and/or Huayna to close their borders, thus forcing him to conduct naval landings. With a decent force of frigates, we could rule the strait.
2. Allow him to pass freely around the ring, thus luring him into a position of weakness at his core. By the time he gets around to us, Hatty could very well be finished and it would be Mao's turn anyway. With (hopefully) a sizeable force traveling around the ring, Mao would have less forces to counterattack our lightening naval invasion.

Bismarck is not as powerful as Mao but he is more likely to be the thorn in our side. He will probably attempt to take Elephantine so getting a decent garrison of CG grenadiers would be a good idea. I personally don't care if he takes the city but forcing him to use up troops against a hill city is better than letting him head north and do more serious damage.

BTW (from the maint thread) in our turnlogs, whenever you see a pillage message like You have plundered 304 from the Village! we're actually only getting 30g. The turn log parser sees the :gold: symbol as a 4. So we're not quite as rich as we could be.


LTB, no need to post the "I'm sure I will be the subject of wrath..." stuff. At least I hope not! We're all getting a bit involved in these choices and as my wife reminded me last night, "Its just a game honey". Of course I gave her a quizzical look as if she just doesn't understand. She does tho.

We're making progress, tho not as quickly as we'd like to see. Pointy stick research works (in my experience) best when the AI believes they can still be succesful with the cities they have left, but only if you stop right now. So you can't knock a civ down to nothing and get techs, but you also have to do enough damage that they really feel it.


Next step in the war? Ugh. WW will pop right back up as soon as we reopen combat, but given Hatty's creative trait and the long standing culture from both civs, our newly captured cities will begin flipping very soon. So that means we have to reduce the pressure AND remove Hatty asap. We can get deals cancelled with her and that should slow down a DP spread (I hope) or even remove a DP.... It might cost us more then we're willing to pay.

Anyway, taking 3 cities in 10 turns is nothing to sneeze at. Good job on that. :goodjob: Now its up to me to set up the next war, and perhaps get it started as soon as possible to keep DPs from forming up.

My apologies. I don't mean to sound so defensive. I just feel like every new turn report these days is followed with a lot of "Why didn't you X this and Y that??!!" (Yes, I'm guilty too). We should probably spend a bit more time patting our fellow teammates on the back for the good plays and less time griping about :smoke: moves. The game would be more fun. I don't mind seeing the debate between opposing viewpoints but at the end of the day, it's the current players decision. It would be nice though if we could all come to some kind of consensus.

I've never had much luck at pointy stick research. I don't always bother to try but when I do I usually seem to run into the "we'd rather die" phenomenon. I can't say I blame the AI. I usually tell them to go fly a kite too. They'll have to pry it from my cold dead hands. :lol:

When you say culture flipping, are you referring to Bismarck's culture or Hatty's culture? Unless the setting for it is enabled, I don't think Hatty can retake Memphis or Elephantine through culture. I suppose I should have checked to make sure the setting for that wasn't enabled.

Lessons learned:
1. The suiciding of units is going to cause considerable WW. I don't know about anyone else but that's not something I had considered until now. Osaka and Madrid will need a sizeable garrison to keep them productive when WW sets in and we can't afford to stop the war early.
2. The adoption of Emancipation by the AI's while we maintain slavery will certainly be a problem in the future. It's not much but when added to the WW, it can mean the difference between using a plains hill mine or having the miners join the war protesters.
3. A superior navy is the key to a quick victory. Without the galleons that I had amassed along Egypt's northern coast, I could never have pulled off the 180 and taken Memphis shortly after taking Anasazi.

Forgot to mention, but great job on the 180. It probably suprised Hatty too! A superior navy will protect Hokkiado and BT, and if you can manage to get a medic whip or two... well units healing on board ships are nice. ;)

I'm giving Eektor the full 24 hour to post got it, but if he doesn't, I'll be taking it right away.

There has been a reasonable degree of criticism in the game; even if there wasn't there would still a tendency to be self critical and feeling you're letting the team down by making sub-optimal decisions,which is compounded by there being a competetive element to SGOTM.

Why Alexandria?
Why not keep anything? Every city we keep at this stage (up to 50%) is going to add Production and Unit support even with the extra defender needed (if at all)...

It can build its own defender if need be...

Captured and razed Niani. Continued on to Anasazi. Why??? Do we go east? to capture mediocre cities when we have prime cities towards the north...

Turn 7
I managed to get the defenses down in Memphis and take the city. Unfortunately, I really don't have sufficient forces to hold the city without exposing the expended stack of catapults to an onslaught of cavalry from Thebes.
When I am faced with such a situation I usually leave the 1 lone defender instead of taking the city. Sure it can be reinforced, but now you are forced into a peace you/we dont want/need....

Taking 3 cities definatly :goodjob:

My apologies. I don't mean to sound so defensive. I just feel like every new turn report these days is followed with a lot of "Why didn't you X this and Y that??!!" (Yes, I'm guilty too). We should probably spend a bit more time patting our fellow teammates on the back for the good plays and less time griping about moves. The game would be more fun. I don't mind seeing the debate between opposing viewpoints but at the end of the day, it's the current players decision. It would be nice though if we could all come to some kind of consensus.
consensus = Whipe the floor with the AI
The problem => How?

The why thing with me is just my way of trying to understand. One can type 2 paragraphs and be nice about it, but I am a direct person and just ask questions point blank. I appologize (I think I did so too before) if that is to direct for anyone... I will try to limit myself a bit... (more)
It just not that I am a bit fanatical about civ tho.... :mischief:

A medic transport... Hmz... I never considered that one :) Learn something new everyday :D

On a more positive note? OK we have peace with Hatty... It looks like we can get at Germany thru Elephantine => Hun, How about we take Germay (in a flash, Get Frigates to bomb Essen and Berlin (HE!) while land units take on Hun.)
Once these 3 cities are ours Germany is broken... We could take Berlin and turn around to Cologn and Frankfurt, ending up right on Hatty's doorstep again, this time going South => North. Ending in Thebes, ready for the cross into China... Cake walk from there.
Or add Munich as well?

I just feel like every new turn report these days is followed with a lot of "Why didn't you X this and Y that??!!"

I agree and positive reinforcement always works better. Like Bob's wife said: "it's only a game" (and for some a complete heroin addiction)

I've never had much luck at pointy stick research. I don't always bother to try but when I do I usually seem to run into the "we'd rather die" phenomenon.

Odd weren't you the one that pointed out how well it works many posts ago. I didn't say much because I thought I was doing something wrong as I never have much luck with it. They would rather rather give you their ice city. No thanks I think I just keep razing away until nothings left. Stupid AI DOH DOH DOH DOH DOH DOH DOH DOH DOH

The adoption of Emancipation by the AI's while we maintain slavery

AI is teching very fast and another reason why I like to at least keep a certain degree of science. We have a science super city at our disposal but it isn't doing near that. Maybe we can still trade Education for Chemistry as if the AI is on democracy it just means that it won't be long until assembly line.

I think that ruling the world with cats/sams was way overestimated and not all things were considered.

None the less we all have done an excellent job and are good SG players. We have different styles but in my opinion compliment each other in a sense. Let's keep it positive and get away from why and offer solutions that bring us ahead. Why is one of those phrases that gets peoples back up.

In a sense we all played the way we felt best. I did give into NamliaM just to prove that it "ain't" no cakewalk. We might be lucky to be done by the 1800's but would like to see it sooner. In other SG's NamliaM you seemed more participatory rather than adversarial. Someone makes a point and it's "who cares" whoopy blah blah. I just don't get it good buddy. Maybe you don't mean it to sound that way but it just comes across like our opinion means very little. DP's are a pain and if we have to take on 3 civs at once forget it we don't have that ability.

We have to work with what we got and WW is a problem too now especially when we have to suicide cats. It affects the production line/science/commerce and everything. We have a long haul of warring ahead and need to address that problem and religion would certainly help. I hope that the next player considers going to confused for the happiness factor and theocracy. (that may have been done already as I haven't checked the save recently)

My hope isthat we would go for spreading confu, starting with Osaka,switch to theocracy and aim for cannon asap 4 accurace cats/cannons+CR2 cannon with existing CR grenadiers should cut our loss rate significantly.Given that unit loss is a factor in WW then maybe this is something we should be aiming to reduce (but let's wipe Hatty first). I like the idea of razing unwanted cities first coz razing doesn't slow you down. The time for a break is after a civ has been totally annihiliated.

In other SG's NamliaM you seemed more participatory rather than adversarial. Someone makes a point and it's "who cares" whoopy blah blah. I just don't get it good buddy. Maybe you don't mean it to sound that way but it just comes across like our opinion means very little. DP's are a pain and if we have to take on 3 civs at once forget it we don't have that ability.
Who cares... Well I feel we mostly (me included actually) are a group of builders at heart. I have been making the (sometimes painfull) transistion to Warmonger... This is a warmongers game... Not a builders game.

I was trying to be a bit adversarial to be honest as I pasionatly believe that we have created our own problems at the moment. Getting rid of some AI research power = Take down/out 1 or 2 AI... Once there are 2 AI gone (not including Mansa) things will slow down Considerably...
This is why I was allways pushing and pushing...
By us Teching along we leave the AI to do the same while trading their tech among themselves (not to us) giving them a (even) bigger a lead...

By leaving the real push on the mainland to after Chemistry we let the AI do that very thing. While had we not been so focussed on Infra structure we would have had more Sams at the moment we got Astronomy. Shipped over a few Sams ASAP and declared war on *any AI* atleast 20-30 turns earlier.

But that is all behind us, please dont take above part the wrong way... Just trying to be constructive in criticizing our game.

For the future, I dont think we are in that much trouble (yet). If we can take out the tech leaders before they get Tanks/Machine Guns, then CR3 Grennies and a few Cannons can do real damage...
Just be picky about picking fights with the Sams and get them to CR3 ASAP and to Grenny.
We are having some problems getting a feel for AI standings at this time but to get to Infantry, thats 2 expensive techs Assline and Steam Power.
I havent looked at the save yet, but do AI have Chemistry? Without that no Steam power.

spreading confu, starting with Osaka,switch to theocracy and aim for cannon asap 4 accurace cats/cannons+CR2 cannon with existing CR grenadiers should cut our loss rate significantly.Given that unit loss is a factor in WW then maybe this is something we should be aiming to reduce (but let's wipe Hatty first). I like the idea of razing unwanted cities first coz razing doesn't slow you down. The time for a break is after a civ has been totally annihiliated.
Razing unwanted cities is not the way to go.... IMHO... In my war lessons the cities worth keeping are actually the once you want ASAP.
They ADD to our goal while significantly drainng your opponent.
Razing mediocre cities while not draining as much from your opponent, doesnt add anything to our cause.

Take Germany, we want to keep Berlin. Berlin houses the HE for Germany, if we leave Berlin till the last Bismark can build units double time. Taking Berlin ASAP removes that capability.
Take Egypt, Hatty is getting most out off Memphis and Thebes. While we want to keep those cities, it is her "core". Taking away that core... well.... you get the picture...

Offcourse all this IMHO... and water under the bridge (again trying to be constructive not destructive)

Back to current events:
About Confu vs Juda, I take Juda anytime of day. For 1 reason, spying... Which I think is very important, also it is "only" 2 xp. Yes 1 promotion, but only 2 xp. Pick your fights and we should be able to pick up those 2 xp easy...
Also pretty soon the number of Judaist cities should outnumber the number of confused cities. Getting 1 or 2 missionaries to Osaka & Madrid may well be wize....

Arent we in theocracy yet? If not lets revolt ASAP.

Strongly disagree re confu theocracy. Only 2xp perhaps but the difference between CR1 and CR2 which is often as not the difference between winning the fight and losing the fight (and unit, so have to replace it, transport the replacement, get more war weariness for the unit loss). Spying is less important than additional xp. On subject of keeping cities, yes they increase production (significantly through whipping) but every city costs 7 or 8 gpt extra.

Argument about research vs production is not straightforward. Yes we could have been building more units, particularly sams but every unit costs maintenance which slows down research which slows down astronomy which means that units hang round longer; the argument about commerce vs production tiles is basically a different aspect of the same argument.

Edit: On a different subject score/power graphs can be misleading. If we raze a city we gain nothing in terms of score or power but we gain significantly in terms of conquest (ie. up to now we've taken five cities, kept two, razed three, if we'd kept them all our score and power would be higher but how much closer would this make us to annihilating egypt?). So until we get to the end of the game and can check out other threads we don't actually know what score/power graphs actually mean.

Yes we drop some GPT, but that is made good (by far) from the added commerce either from cottages or Trade routes or Shrine income or Pillage.
From the pillage of a town capture alone, we can run 8 gpt upkeep for 25 turns (not counting producting and commerce from that city)
+ They produce replacement units which dont need to be shuttled.

With keeping those cities soon Judaist production will by far outway the production on Hokkaido, more so if we shuttle back 1 or 2 missionaries for Osaka and Madrid...

And whats more, IMHO, we have GPT allready comming out of our ears... (dutch saying) meaning IMHO we have to much allready, with FP and/or Versailles we will save even more on upkeep... While upping our production, more production => More units => shorter wars => Less WW.

Having units in enemy lands alone (I think) adds to WW. Lets take Germany ASAP, not only does it (effectively) take out an AI. Germany is home to no less than 5 lux to counter our WW and WDE (We demand Emancipation) troubles. Lets tech ASAP to Cannons and pointy stick (hopefully) Germany out of Nationalism.
We need to run 0% for a while again after Steel anyway to account for (mass) Cat=> Cannon upgrades

Edit: About the score/power graphs you are right... Tho for the live of me I still dont understand your point about going after "razable" cities (IMHO none of Egypt are razable but if any were/are it would have been the 2 we razed) instead of going after cities we want to keep. We want to keep them cause we think they would add something, why? Cause they are adding to Hatty allready. *anyway I went into this in previous posts, Trying to cut back on the Critique and :gripe: more on positives...*
So trying to be positive, yes we wouldnt be much closer if we had kept the razed cities... But we may have had a bit more production and even maybe some more commerce ....

Edit2: IMHO this game is/was not about us getting tech up, but rather getting AI tech down....
But again this is offcourse beating a dead cow (again dutch proverb) lets not dwell on that...

Please folks, if you don't post any pictures at all..... at least post an updated war front w/culture showing. It just makes conversations easier if we can "see" what we're proposing.

Since I don't have access to civ right now, I've marked on the last shot I posted:
http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/7067/civwg2.png

If I had the up to date shot I assume:
Hatty has Helio and Thebes, with Thebes putting some intense cultural pressure on Memphis (I have no idea if the "don't flip" bit is set or not).
Elephantine has cultural room to the east since Niani and Anasazzi don't exist.
Alexandria is pushing north tho.
(Has germany put any settlers into the freshly cleared lands?)

If we want to leave Hatty alone and move on Bizmark right now and we take Hun... we'll be unable to continue the land war unless Essen's culture can combat that of Mycenian enough to leave a small land bridge on the west. Is keeping Hun even realistic? I don't see what it gives us. Essen being a marginal keep, we're finally at the gates of Berlin which is a good keep as its a capital site and it secures another landing point.

So if the first ten(ish) turns of war go optimally with Bizmark, we're looking at having Hatty's culture to our north and also to the east. Biz has open borders with Hatty, so he can move units through her eastern holdings to attack E & M. That means we need possibly even more defensive units there to combat any retake attempt by Hatty and counter attack by Biz. The upside is that we'd be placed very well for taking Mycenian.

Its a risky proposition that is built on a couple assumptions:
1) Bismark is still a bit backwards in techs and unit count.
2) No one else will jump on us as we concentrate on Bismark.
3) We can manage a second set of WW

Until we wipe out the civilization, the WW is going to be our limiter. No matter how many cities we capture, no matter how many units we produce to throw at the enemy, we're going to incur severe WW. Kyoto will be the only city immune to it. SO when we do move on civs, the faster we can roll each up (and be sure they have no tiny colonies somewhere else - trade or demand world maps as we can) the better of we'll be.

We'll get our second -1 for declaring on a friend with most of the ring with a declaration on Germany. Not devastating yet, but if we do switch to an unfriendly religion, we'll see open borders disappearing.

Odd weren't you the one that pointed out how well it works many posts ago. I didn't say much because I thought I was doing something wrong as I never have much luck with it. They would rather rather give you their ice city. No thanks I think I just keep razing away until nothings left.

I think you misunderstood me a while back when I was advocating for a war now vs. infrastructure building and science improvement policy. It was clear to me then, as it is now, that we need to slow down the AI. I wasn't saying that we could gain tech parity through pointy stick research. I was saying that we should grab their ankles and drag them down to our level. By slowing them way down, we give ourselves the ability to catch up, thus acheiving tech parity. I suspected then and I have confirmed now that pointy stick research is a bit overrated. It's not impossible but it's not really a plan for getting to Nationalism and MT.

Updated screen shot:

http://img426.imageshack.us/img426/4364/civ4screenshot0001bs2.jpg


So Hatty has already replaced one lost city, and I spotted a German settler pair on its way. (I also saw that Hatty was farming over a village (5 turns away from a town!) right next to Memphis. I can't believe an AI is that devious. She's spread her forces out much better, but Thebes is much more accesible now. I think the next war should be to remove all trace of Hatty north of our current holdings.

Having looked at the save now, taking Hun *might* still leave us a land route to Essen, but I just don't trust Hatty's creative trait driven culture to not seal that off. So while I do like the idea of taking Germany now, our naval forces are not setup to work around Hatty's culture closing off the land.

Mao has rifles and I saw that HC has cavs. Thankfully it looks like the rest of the world is a bit less militarily inclined. I do think that Hatty will be building up a much more massive army now, so the next turns should more then likely be spent making sure our stick is bigger and pointier!

I might suggest popping some jewish missionaries to Edo and Kagoshima soon along with revolting to Theo. I'm undecided about which religion benefits us the most.

Judaism gives us spying and that is a nice edge in war planning. Also, we're already in it so there's one less turn of anarchy.
Confucianism will give us much more bang for our buck in Hokkiado + Kyoto.

Its a tough choice.


Keeper list:
Thebes
Heliopolis
Alexandria
Mycenian.

Having looked at the save now, taking Hun *might* still leave us a land route to Essen, but I just don't trust Hatty's creative trait driven culture to not seal that off. So while I do like the idea of taking Germany now, our naval forces are not setup to work around Hatty's culture closing off the land.Most of the egyptian culture in Hun was due to Elephantine draw a line around Mycenian and find that there will be 1 tile left for us to walk on... Offcourse Germany will have the advantage of using Egyptian culture, but the AI aint that smart IMHO.

I might suggest popping some jewish missionaries to Edo and Kagoshima soon along with revolting to Theo. I'm undecided about which religion benefits us the most. uhm I hate to do this but WHY?
Edo and Kago are not big military producers. If we are going to pop some Missionaries lets pop some for Osaka and Madrid which have a much higher production rate.

Judaism gives us spying and that is a nice edge in war planning. Also, we're already in it so there's one less turn of anarchy.
Confucianism will give us much more bang for our buck in Hokkiado + Kyoto.

Its a tough choice.
True but IMHO hardly a tough choice, Judaism will give free culture in the captured cities besides spying. Confused will not.
Also if we do keep Germany (minus crap cities Dortmund, Kumbi Saleh and Waleta) and Egypt (minus Pi Rammeses) we will have in total 15 (including Kyoto) Judaist cities, by far outnumbering Hokkaido.
Now add 1 or 2 missionaries to Hokkaido (Osaka and Madrid) and ~90% of our production will be getting the Judaist Theacratic bonus of 2xp.

Keeper list:
For germany and Egypt keep everything (maybe but for the towns I mentioned above + the new town replacing the gem town....)

Edo and Kago are not big military producers. If we are going to pop some Missionaries lets pop some for Osaka and Madrid which have a much higher production rate.

Mainly to give our ships as they sail out the extra promotion so they can reach medic level sooner. Additionally the voyage is a short one that doesn't weaken defenses. Sure I'd love to get the religion spread over to Hokkiado, but that's a longer trip and one that we can pull off once the waters are ours. /me shrugs


So updated Keeper List:
Egypt
Thebes - Capital Site
Helipolois - Town + quality site
Alexandria - Quality site (?)
Mycenian - Versailles
Germany
Essen/Frankfurt - why?
Berlin - Capital Site
Cologne - Angkor Wat
Hamburg Quality Site
Munich - Quality Site

Sorry, but I just don't see the need/benefit in keeping Hun. Am I missing something?


Roster note:
I'm putting Eektor on auto-skip until he reports back in.
I'll play in about 8 hours.

Hun has little to offer but commerce... 3 dye are good for 15 commerce... Add the village and the other tiles... Potentialy a nice commerce city... I would keep it.

Essen can be a pretty good producer with them hills... Just farm around them...

Frankfurt... a lot of overlap with both Mycenian and Cologne, other than that it is high food... we could whip it for 2 pop every 15 turns. It is very close to Mycenian, once we have Versailles it will not cost much in upkeep...

You should be able to whip the Globe in Kyoto next turn... and start churning Grennies :)

Edit: Hatty is willing to sign open borders ! ! ! ! Eliminating Germanies advantage over us :).. And she is even willing to trade again :) how nice...

Elephantine doesnt have a barracks....
I think we should be building Frigates in BT not Galleons.... Frigates make much better defence than Galleons do... Which we will need if we declare war on Germany soon...
I would stricktly build Catapults on Hokkaido at the moment. Untill we get to Steel. Upgrades come cheap...
Also dont build Grennies on Hokkaido... Build Sams... Sams get CR, Grennies dont...

I think we should keep Hun because the name is kewl... (just kidding)

Build Sams??? but we don't have rocketry yet. (just kidding)

You're right CR is a great promotion and looking forward to your gameplay Bob. What happened to Eektor? Hope we hear from him soon.

EDIT:

Just looked at the save. A couple things I noticed:

Bismarck will go to war with Hatty for chemistry and 50 gold.
We can get nationalism for chemistry from Kublai and Education from HC for the same.

I think we shouldn't deviate from finishing off Hatty and going for Mao next. Bismarck does have quite a stack in Berlin I think. I thought maybe he was preparing for an invasion but he doesn't say he has his hands full. He is friendly with us so why not use him to distract Hatty and let us continue finishing taking the north. I don't why Mao is tech so fast as he hasn't really got anything substantial in the way of cities or science city from what I can tell.

If we didn't use Bismarck for war we could trade probably for Printing Press with him and gain three new techs but like your last turn Bob I am sure you are considering this as well since you grabbed five of them last time. We won't be able to hold the monopoly on Chemistry for much longer and Natiionalism would be great for Kyoto once we get Globe finished.

Build Sams??? but we don't have rocketry yet. (just kidding)I mean Samurais (Sams) offcourse....

Hatty is allready broken, we dont need Bismarks help... If anything we need to eliminate Bismark, if only becuase of the 5 lux he has...

It wont come as a surprise I think if I say: Please dont trade Chem for Education...., No need to trade it for Nationalism either IMHO...

Sorry that I didn't read your post before playing cosmic! No tech trading, tho I asked for PP "as a favor for a friend" from every AI except Mansa - EVERY turn. No deal. I made a demand to Mansa for a tech and he denied us despite having only 3 cities - its going to be a pleasure to wipe him out.

We do have Steel and are "working" on nationalism. As soon as we got steel, I turned research to 0 (+286gpt) so we could upgrade some cats, sams, and other units. Treasury is only at ~500g. Why so low? 2 turns of anarchy will do that to you! We're now a Theocracy (still Jewish). Upkeep went from 32gpt to 36gpt.

Yes, the Globe was completed, and all the remaining cats were shipped over. I missed a :whipped: or two when I forgot we could basically whip every other turn in Kyoto. Sorry bout that.

Our peace treaty with Hatty expired, but no real moves yet.

I checked the trade screens every turn (in trying to beg for PP) and Mao researched chemistry on my very first turn! I watched and waited for any sign of it spreading... 9 turns later, only Mao has Chemistry. If the next player wants to give up this military tech - well I'll leave it to them and the group.

In turn 0 I got OB with Hatty, did spice for wheat, and sheep for 6pt. Next turn, she got all icky with me and we're now her worst enemy. NO worries, we still have all the deals still in place.
I took away the copper for 6gpt from Mao and did clam for 7gpt instead.
Throughout my turns I made sure to grab any extra gpt that came available with trading partners. Roughly an increase of 10gpt resulted.

In turn 6, Memphis came out of revolt and popped its borders right away. Same turn, Elephantine popped its borders. We had 3 starving citizens in Memphis and a barracks would take 2 to whip. Easy math!

I made sure both cities in ringworld still have enough bodies to hold off an opportunistic Hatty, but here's what I've left set up. ALL military units shown still have movement points left (along with some frigates off the shore of Kyoto). Rather then declaring war on my last turn, I've left that choice (and opportunity) for the next player. Here's what I went and done:

The current "war" front:
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/2593/civ4screenshot0000gs8.jpg

A much more up front image:
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/8650/civ4screenshot0004zy7.jpg

The next line of Bismark's defenses (much more scary):
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/7124/civ4screenshot0005fn5.jpghttp://img166.imageshack.us/img166/171/civ4screenshot0006zl3.jpghttp://img166.imageshack.us/img166/2032/civ4screenshot0007lm0.jpg

The rest of his cities have about 4 units (3 defenders and one cat). Kumba Salle has another mini stack in it.

Hatty has around 5-6 units in her nearby cities. So where does that leave us?

Those units shown in our two massive stacks can:
A) Declare on Bismark, take Hun right away, Take Essen next turn (after holding off against a counter from the stack in Berlin) and then combine to take out Berlin. Depending on casualtes, they could swing south to finish off Cologne and then Frankfurt. Our losses will occur mainly to the initial counater attack from Berlin and the Kumba mini-stack and much more heavily on the sea - Bizmark is all over the ocean.
B) move all the units into german territory (since they are camped in Egyptian right now) and declare war (again) on Hatty in the next turn. Stack 1 can easily take Heliopolis, while stack 2 can easily take Mycenian. I don't doubt she's going to come after us sooner rather then later - and she's building up stacks. But she has minimal sea forces, and we have a couple galleons loaded up and en route right now to make her life worse.

Either one will work. Hatty (to me) is slightly more a threat *right now* then Bismark. We can worker swipe either of them easily. So I'm passing off 9.5 turns of play. The next player better be ready to take lots of screenshots of city captures!!!

Oh and one kinda suprising thing. There are still no DPs out there. We're free to declare on anyone we want to.

Turn 335, 1595 AD: You have trained a Catapult in Kyoto. Work has now begun on Globe Theatre.
Turn 335, 1595 AD: The borders of Cordoba Shrine have expanded!

Turn 336, 1598 AD: Alhazen has been born in Cuzco!
Turn 336, 1598 AD: Hatshepsut adopts Bureaucracy!
Turn 336, 1598 AD: Hatshepsut adopts Organized Religion!

Turn 337, 1601 AD: Madrid celebrates "We Love the Monarch Day"!!!
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Judaism has spread in Byblos.

Turn 338, 1604 AD: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 338, 1604 AD: VQ Black adopts Theocracy!
Turn 338, 1604 AD: Madrid celebrates "We Love the Monarch Day"!!!

Turn 339, 1607 AD: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.

Turn 340, 1610 AD: The borders of Elephantine have expanded!
Turn 340, 1610 AD: The borders of Memphis have expanded!

Turn 341, 1613 AD: You have trained a Samurai in Barcelona. Work has now begun on a Grenadier.

Turn 342, 1616 AD: Deal Canceled: Peace Treaty (10 Turns) to Hatshepsut for Peace Treaty (10 Turns)
Turn 342, 1616 AD: Mansa Musa adopts Representation!

Turn 343, 1619 AD: You have discovered Steel!
Turn 343, 1619 AD: You have trained a Samurai in Satsuma. Work has now begun on a Grenadier.

Turn 344, 1622 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 46 $ for Cordoba Shrine.
Turn 344, 1622 AD: Deal Canceled: Fish to Kublai Khan for Gold Per Turn (6)
Turn 344, 1622 AD: You have trained a Samurai in Seville. Work has now begun on a Grenadier.



The Savehttp://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm2/VQ_Black_SG002_AD1625_01.Civ4SavedGame

oh btw, the Sistine chapel is in Memphis too... so any city we capture can pop its borders *very* fast if we just run a bunch of specialists at the start.

Bismark don't look scary. Still makes sense to take out Hatty first, go north then south then talk about either Biz or Mao but they're a couple of sets away.

I agree take out Hatty first. Don't waste that tech by letting Mao spread it around. The tech is out now no sense in not using it to our advantage. We could get three techs for it but I understand why some want to hold on. Since we are going to need upgrades for the cats and science will be off for a while why not advance this way. It won't be long before everybody has it. Again we won't rule the world with grens/sams/or even cannons we must keep a modern military (upgraded) to make our taking cities go faster.

We don't have the monopoly on it anymore and with Nationalism really could pump out units from Kyoto. If anything just trade with Kublai he is no threat to us. I think using Bismarck would be good. Here's why: He has quite a stack there and why not let him waste it on Hatty. Then when we are ready we can take him easier.

Why let him build up as we take Hatty or take Bismarck and let another AI get stronger.

Man it's kind of frustrating when you can't get agreement on anything from you NamliaM. The Bismarck is an idea as well as trading. I was offering the possibities to be considered if they hadn't been considered. Personally I wouldn't hold on to a tech that's out and take advantage of it. Those cities in the south won't do well against Bismarck's culture there. War will weaken him and that's what we need. I was surprised to see he would go to war for us and I would much rather see us finish Hatty off and then go after Mao who is teching away but doesn't have a city that should be producing that. If he is teching hard it means his military is weak so take advantage of that too.

You say tech down well let's go after the guy teching the fastest after Hatty.

EDIT: Going to nationalism might not be a good idea losing bureaucracy I think but will get us closer to Military tradition.

We agree sometimes... Well trading Chemistry is "against my religion" but since its out there... :(
Lets see if Bismark is willing to waste some units on someone (other than hatty) Send his units West while we get hatty and stab him right in the east (both actual and proverbial back).

As nationalism is right on the path to MT, trading for it may make sence... getting any tech in addition is a bonus... But I wont be gunning for Education... When are we going to take time to build a Uni?

Playing in a couple of minutes... Lets see turns in an SG go how again?? :confused: *grabs pen and paper*

Edit: I have played but took way longer than I expected and I am all but falling a sleep right now...

We still alive, but we dont have Mycenian (just about our/my #1 goal :sad:

BTW, don't think of trading for education as something we're going to use the tech for Univs or anything else. Think of it as a tech we could trade to others OR as something that opens up other techs for us to receive/research.

When I completed Steel, I had only four choices (from memory) avail to research: Education, Printing Press, Divine Right, and Nationlism. We have 600 some beakers into Nat right now.

If we do trade Chemistry away.. get as much as we can for it from KK. Then wait one turn and trade it the rest of the way. Why? So that the techs beyond Edu/PP/DR/Nat are available to us in trade. You can't double jump in one turn on traded techs. This is a bit risky, since KK could trade chemistry out from under us so balance getting what we *need* versus what we might be able to get in trade in the next turn that would provide greater benefit then the first tier techs.

Edit:
PP opens up Sci Meth and Replacable Parts (!!)
Nothing from DR
Edu opens up Liberalism and Economics
Nat opens up MT and Constitution
RP opens up Rifling (!!)

So given that, after we get Nationalism in trade, PP is a great tier 1 to get. That will open up RP for research/trading and we can possibly trade for MT or even Rifling (which Mao has)

Has anyone seen that Liberalism has been discovered yet?

Sorry NamliaM you're right we agree sometimes. LOL

I just think Bismarck against Hatty will also mean no tech trading between the two for a while. That should slow tech advancement too. Although you could beat Hatty with a bat and shortly thereafter she's trading again. That's also what I meant (like Bob said) look at it as another tech to trade and move us along without exhausting our finances. I agree building a university won't be a priorty. (Hey we agree) and would rather see Osaka keep building military. I say we war as much as possible and get the AI's warring too which only weakens them. Who knows maybe KK will go after HC.

Has anyone seen that Liberalism has been discovered yet?


I didn't notice it yet nor any mention of it but I bet Mao isn't far off.

Mao did "waste" turns researching Chemistry so he's not beelining to it tho. Interesting that the AIs haven't hit it yet.

Anyway, HC is the big mover on the score board right now. As we were busy beating Hatty down, he jumped past her and Bizmarkee. Makes me want o hurt him worse!

Looking forward to Namliam's turns. I'm not going anywhere this weekend so no more hovering over the keyboard refreshing!

Has anyone seen that Liberalism has been discovered yet?Just a quick visit to the board early in the morning... No log yet sorry...

Mao used Liberalism IIRC for Astro...

BTW, there's a spoiler thread now opened up (see maint thread for link). We more then qualify for posting into it (all our rivals are known). So if LuvToBuild is up for an initial spoiler entry, I'm all for him putting one up.

Looking forward to your eventual report namliam!

Despite not beeing a fan of this idea... I find I can trade for Chemistry...
HC
Printing Press (PP) + World map (WM) + 250g
Nationalism (Nat) + WM + 250g
Education (Ed) + 90g

Bismark
Nat is redded out
PP + WM + 30g
Ed + WM + 10g

KK
Nat + WM + 40g
Ed + WM + 10g
PP + WM + 40g

Mao and Hatty both have Chemistry, I am not going to trade away Steel to either of them !

First I move some units around (The south most units go SE, closest to Mycenian. The northern units go East towards Memphis) and declare war on Hatty and go visit Bismark to see what he is willing to do with war now...
Chem for War with Hatty and Devine Right (Both wonders allready build) ....
Not really something I am aiming for.... Tho DR is appearently a tradable (tho cheap) tech.
I wind up getting Bismarck into war and trade Ivory for Stone to counter the WW a little.
I ask the cheapskate for 10g but .... I press him to hard :crazyeye:
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/583/sgotm2bismarkkz7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Next up is HC, trading for Nationalism + WM + 250g
http://img432.imageshack.us/img432/4993/sgotm2hchc0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Thinking I would come back the next turn to see if I can trade anything beyond PP or Nationalism. However I forget to check. :blush:
So the next person should check if there is anything left to trade Chemistry for....

On the inner turn 1 Cavalry suicides onto memphis... Nothing to speak of ...

1628 (1) I consider starting to build the Taj Mahal, which appearently hasnt been build yet ?? I deside not to persue this...
We pop a GP from Madrid, a Priest... We are short a Shrine, but I think we wont be building any Missionaries any time soon to get the shrine to 5gpt.
So I deside to merge the Priest to Osaka for the extra hammer and the 5gpt.

1631 (2) Bismark has shown up at Mycenian with a small stack and some Knights in reserve... I deside to gamble that Bismark is going to fail...
He has 2 units in reserve... But ... Yeah its a gamble... and it doesnt pay off.... Bismarck takes the city with 1 unit to spare :(
http://img426.imageshack.us/img426/8621/sgotm2mycenianxx7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

1637 (4) The battle for Heliopolis...
I throw 6 suicide cats against the city without a single withdraw. Add 2 more withdrawals (total 8 cats)
Combat(C) 2 Pinch (P) Gren
City raider (CR) 2 Gren
CR2 Sam (3 of them)
Cr1 Sam
two CR2 Cats
All of which win without much problems all with high % to win. However we have 1 or 2 movable units left and can see some Cavs "on the horizon", No Germans within reach....
Therefor I leave the city to Hatty for this turn

On the Innerturn we suffer some Colatoral damage near Alexandria...
Next turn 1640 (5) sure enough some Cavs reinforced Heliopolis. Two Cr1 cats withdraw after sending in some rocks.
A Cr2 Gren, C2P Gren and a CR2 Sam clean up the left overs and take Heliopolis. The Samurai actually has a 100.1% chance of winning :)
http://img345.imageshack.us/img345/4274/sgotm2heliopolisbq3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Heliopolis is stripped of all buildings :( ALL :cry:
Checking Osaka, WW is not up to 9 unhappy. I up culture to 20% to counter unhappiness and make the citizens productive again.

The innerturn a counter attack is send to Heliopolis... a Catapult (withdraw) and a Cav (withdraw), both crossing the river.
also some guy name Livy makes some kind of list.
http://img345.imageshack.us/img345/9126/sgotm2livyhr0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

1643 (6) The cav is killed while the cat is left alone... (dont want to risk any units out in the open for 1 measly cat)
In Alexandria I send in 5 suicide catapults of which numbers 1, 2 and 5 withdraw.
two C CR2 Grens, a C3 CR Gren follows up and three C CR Sams clean up the mess. We take Alexandria with the loss of 2 cats.
http://img432.imageshack.us/img432/2635/sgotm2alexandriazl8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
While attacking Alexandria and Heliopolis, Thebes and Byblos are beeing bombed as you can see.

After the seige of Alexandria and Heliopolis, units start marching on the remaining 3 cities of Hatty. Byblos and Thebes have allready been bombed to 0% and Pi-Ramesess can be bombed to 0% in 1 turn with the Cats we have in the area.
Thus a few turns pass to 1652 (9) as units arive at Byblos and Pi-Rameses.
During those turns I trade Clams for Spices with Bismarck
http://img426.imageshack.us/img426/3243/sgotm2bismark2tn2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
In 1652, Pi-Ramesses is razed after bombing to 0% and attacks by a C2CR2 Gren, a C CR Gren and a C CR2 Sam.
Byblos is defended a bit better even after having it to near 0% by Frigate(s).
We lose a C CR Gren vs a Cavalry, but the subsequent C P Cren, C CR Sam, C CR2 Sam and finaly a Knight win.
We capture Byblos, I spend some time pondering... Do we keep Byblos and build it, or Raze it... ??? I think rebuilding a full city will take to long for it to be of real use.
So I end up razing it.

1655 I up culture to 30% to fight the rize in WW and that concludes my set.

This is what is left of Egypt.... Thebes ... the last city on the mainland...
http://img345.imageshack.us/img345/1649/sgotm2thebesrs0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
In teal are 3 Frigates I parked in "friendly" lands to save some GPT and close enough to take out any defence... Bismarck as you can see is also "on the scene"

And back on Hokkaido, Giza... 2 Frigates are on the way there to start bombing it...
http://img426.imageshack.us/img426/4889/sgotm2gizazw9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Our current units...
http://img432.imageshack.us/img432/7365/sgotmunitsld3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And our current minimap
http://img345.imageshack.us/img345/9236/sgotmminimaprm1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The save you can get from here (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm2/VQ_Black_SG002_AD1655_01.Civ4SavedGame)

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1625 AD to 1655 AD:

Turn 345, 1625 AD: You have declared war on Hatshepsut!
Turn 345, 1625 AD: You have discovered Printing Press!
Turn 345, 1625 AD: Bismarck has declared war on Hatshepsut!
Turn 345, 1625 AD: You have discovered Nationalism!
Turn 345, 1625 AD: Shankara has been born in Madrid!
Turn 345, 1625 AD: Leonardo da Vinci has been born in Guangzhou!
Turn 345, 1625 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry (15.00) vs VQ Black's Grenadier (19.80)
Turn 345, 1625 AD: Combat Odds: 22.3%
Turn 345, 1625 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 345, 1625 AD: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 345, 1625 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 345, 1625 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 345, 1625 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 345, 1625 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 345, 1625 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 345, 1625 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 345, 1625 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 345, 1625 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier is hit for 17 (15/100HP)
Turn 345, 1625 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 345, 1625 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 345, 1625 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 345, 1625 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier has defeated Hatshepsut's Cavalry!

Turn 346, 1628 AD: You have trained a Galleon in Kagoshima. Work has now begun on a Frigate.
Turn 346, 1628 AD: You have trained a Samurai in Barcelona. Work has now begun on a Grenadier.
Turn 346, 1628 AD: Mao Zedong has completed The Kremlin!

Turn 347, 1631 AD: You have trained a War Elephant in Osaka. Work has now begun on a War Elephant.
Turn 347, 1631 AD: Mycenian has been captured by the German Empire!!!
Turn 347, 1631 AD: Bismarck adopts Representation!
Turn 347, 1631 AD: Bismarck adopts Vassalage!
Turn 347, 1631 AD: Bismarck adopts Theocracy!
Turn 347, 1631 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry (18.00) vs VQ Black's Grenadier (13.20)
Turn 347, 1631 AD: Combat Odds: 79.1%
Turn 347, 1631 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 347, 1631 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 347, 1631 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 347, 1631 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 347, 1631 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 347, 1631 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 347, 1631 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 347, 1631 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 347, 1631 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 347, 1631 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 347, 1631 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 347, 1631 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 347, 1631 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 17 (15/100HP)
Turn 347, 1631 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 347, 1631 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry has defeated VQ Black's Grenadier!
Turn 347, 1631 AD: Hatshepsut adopts Theocracy!

Turn 348, 1634 AD: Memphis celebrates "We Love the Monarch Day"!!!

Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult (5.00) vs Hatshepsut's Rifleman (17.50)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (City Defense: +20%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 35 (65/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 35 (30/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 35 (0/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Rifleman has defeated VQ Black's Catapult!
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult (5.00) vs Hatshepsut's Rifleman (17.50)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (City Defense: +20%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 35 (65/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 35 (30/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Rifleman is hit for 11 (89/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 35 (0/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Rifleman has defeated VQ Black's Catapult!
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult (5.00) vs Hatshepsut's Rifleman (15.79)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (City Defense: +20%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 34 (66/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 34 (32/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 34 (0/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Rifleman has defeated VQ Black's Catapult!
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult (5.00) vs Hatshepsut's Rifleman (15.79)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (City Defense: +20%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 34 (66/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 34 (32/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Rifleman is hit for 11 (83/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 34 (0/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Rifleman has defeated VQ Black's Catapult!
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult (5.00) vs Hatshepsut's Rifleman (14.52)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (City Defense: +20%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 34 (66/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Rifleman is hit for 11 (72/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Rifleman is hit for 11 (61/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 34 (32/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Rifleman is hit for 11 (50/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 34 (0/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Rifleman has defeated VQ Black's Catapult!
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult (5.00) vs Hatshepsut's Rifleman (12.93)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Combat Odds: 0.7%
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (City Defense: +20%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 33 (67/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Rifleman is hit for 12 (65/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Rifleman is hit for 12 (53/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 33 (34/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 33 (1/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 33 (0/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Rifleman has defeated VQ Black's Catapult!
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult (5.00) vs Hatshepsut's Rifleman (11.27)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Combat Odds: 2.8%
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (Fortify: +15%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 32 (68/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Rifleman is hit for 12 (58/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 32 (36/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Rifleman is hit for 12 (46/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 32 (4/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Rifleman is hit for 12 (34/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Rifleman is hit for 12 (22/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult (5.00) vs Hatshepsut's Rifleman (8.75)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Combat Odds: 12.2%
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (City Defense: +20%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 31 (69/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 31 (38/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult is hit for 31 (7/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier (14.40) vs Hatshepsut's Cavalry (9.57)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Combat Odds: 95.0%
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier has defeated Hatshepsut's Cavalry!
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier (13.20) vs Hatshepsut's Cavalry (6.44)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Combat Odds: 99.3%
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 24 (34/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 24 (10/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier has defeated Hatshepsut's Cavalry!
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Samurai (8.80) vs Hatshepsut's Rifleman (7.00)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Combat Odds: 93.5%
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (City Defense: +20%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Rifleman is hit for 18 (32/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Rifleman is hit for 18 (14/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Rifleman is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Samurai has defeated Hatshepsut's Rifleman!
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Samurai (8.80) vs Hatshepsut's Rifleman (6.66)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Combat Odds: 94.3%
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (City Defense: +20%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Rifleman is hit for 18 (32/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Samurai is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Rifleman is hit for 18 (14/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Rifleman is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Samurai has defeated Hatshepsut's Rifleman!
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Samurai (8.80) vs Hatshepsut's Cavalry (5.77)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Combat Odds: 98.2%
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 20 (32/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Samurai is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 20 (12/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Samurai is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Samurai has defeated Hatshepsut's Cavalry!
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Samurai (8.80) vs Hatshepsut's Rifleman (3.54)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Combat Odds: 99.8%
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (Fortify: +15%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Rifleman is hit for 18 (4/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Rifleman is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Samurai has defeated Hatshepsut's Rifleman!
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult (5.00) vs Hatshepsut's Cavalry (1.80)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Cavalry is hit for 17 (0/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult has defeated Hatshepsut's Cavalry!
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult (5.00) vs Hatshepsut's Catapult (2.08)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Catapult is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Catapult is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Catapult has defeated Hatshepsut's Catapult!
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Memphis celebrates "We Love the Monarch Day"!!!
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Mao Zedong adopts Emancipation!
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Catapult (5.00) vs VQ Black's Grenadier (16.80)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (Extra Combat: +40%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Catapult is hit for 34 (66/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier is hit for 11 (89/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Catapult is hit for 34 (32/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Catapult is hit for 34 (0/100HP)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier has defeated Hatshepsut's Catapult!
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Hatshepsut's Catapult (5.00) vs VQ Black's Grenadier (14.95)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 349, 1637 AD: (Extra Combat: +40%)
Turn 349, 1637 AD: VQ Black's Grenadier is