There is a new spell in 0.15 called Summon Lifespark. It creates a non-combat glowing ball that you can run around with and sacrifice to heal your units 40%. But the interesting part is that if a defending unit in a stack with a lifespark is about to die, the lifespark will sacrifice itself to heal the unit in combat.

This doesn't interrupt combat, the battle goes on. Meaning that its my first time playing with spells inside of the combat process. It opens up a lot of possibilites, some of which have been mentioned here before but I just didnt know how to implement. We could have spells that block hits (ie: stoneskin), spells that drain life from one unit and give it to the other on each successful attack, etc etc.

A lot of cool stuff that could be done.

Sounds cool, but honestly i worry about the AI's use of magic. Seems like the more loaded up the player gets with neat spells the harder it is for the AI to cope. Could be just me?

With that said, im still in favor of more spells. Its one of my favorite parts of the mod :)

sounds amazing :D

lifesparks would be great things to attach to your heroes

Would it be possible to have an entire battle within a battle?
i.e. a mage capable of casting fireball/meteor is attacked, fireball is cast and attacks the attacking unit, damaging or destroying it. Combat then returns to normal if the attacker remains.

There is a new spell in 0.15 called Summon Lifespark. It creates a non-combat glowing ball that you can run around with and sacrifice to heal your units 40%. But the interesting part is that if a defending unit in a stack with a lifespark is about to die, the lifespark will sacrifice itself to heal the unit in combat.

This doesn't interrupt combat, the battle goes on. Meaning that its my first time playing with spells inside of the combat process. It opens up a lot of possibilites, some of which have been mentioned here before but I just didnt know how to implement. We could have spells that block hits (ie: stoneskin), spells that drain life from one unit and give it to the other on each successful attack, etc etc.

A lot of cool stuff that could be done.

But make sure that the process is not repeatable too much, as the AI tends to heavily fortify it's cities making conquest hard... this would make sandbagging even worse...

There is a new spell in 0.15 called Summon Lifespark. It creates a non-combat glowing ball that you can run around with and sacrifice to heal your units 40%. But the interesting part is that if a defending unit in a stack with a lifespark is about to die, the lifespark will sacrifice itself to heal the unit in combat.

This doesn't interrupt combat, the battle goes on. Meaning that its my first time playing with spells inside of the combat process. It opens up a lot of possibilites, some of which have been mentioned here before but I just didnt know how to implement. We could have spells that block hits (ie: stoneskin), spells that drain life from one unit and give it to the other on each successful attack, etc etc.

A lot of cool stuff that could be done.


Does this mean there could be another spell contest soon? ^^

But make sure that the process is not repeatable too much, as the AI tends to heavily fortify it's cities making conquest hard... this would make sandbagging even worse...

Yeah, I moved lifespark from life 2 to 3 (and boosted its healing effect) because of this so it can only be cast by national units. That should restrict it from becoming to common.

Sounds cool, but honestly i worry about the AI's use of magic. Seems like the more loaded up the player gets with neat spells the harder it is for the AI to cope. Could be just me?

With that said, im still in favor of more spells. Its one of my favorite parts of the mod :)

The lifespark has the medic promotion and the appropriate AI set so it should known to stay in stacks of units. The AI is never good at long term planning but it should be decent at using lifespark.

And the use in combat isn't a decision by the AI or the player. If the lifespark is in a stack with a unit that is about to die, it heals the unit 40% and then combat goes on normally. So from that aspect its "fair".

Im intrigued, Im guessing this one that only high priests are gonna be casting?

Im intrigued, Im guessing this one that only high priests are gonna be casting?

Summon Lifespark is the Life 3 Summoning spell. So Summoners training up to rank 3 in Life magic will be able to summon them.

Question, is life spark a sure shot? I mean will it work 100% of the time and always heal 40% damage? Or will it be more unpredictable sometimes healing less sometimes more. Perhaps occasionaly not even working at all?

So, is that a no on the contest? :confused:

Does that mean there will also be a summon lvl 2 spell for the life sphere?

Oh and is this updated on the develompent:spells page?

Summon Phoenix is being implemented aswell.

So, is that a no on the contest? :confused:

Probably not, I think abotu all the spheres for the "Light" phase are filled, thanks to all the good entries in the last contest.

Any other contests? I really enjoy trying to make a difference. I wish I hadn't been absent for the unit creation contest ^^ ...

Any other contests? I really enjoy trying to make a difference. I wish I hadn't been absent for the unit creation contest ^^ ...

Probably not an idea one in the near furture. We ar eint he polish stage of development and trying to improve on what we have more than add new stuff. New stuff does get implemented as things come up, but I dont really need ideas right now.

If I did one it would probably be a skinning contest where I listed a dozen or so units that needed skins and then we picked/voted on the winner. But I was worried that a contest like that may only appeal to the small portion of the community with access to art tools.

...may only appeal to the small portion of the community with access to art tools.
True but it would still be cool. I have hardly any artistic abilities but i have both flash and blender so...

Question, is life spark a sure shot? I mean will it work 100% of the time and always heal 40% damage? Or will it be more unpredictable sometimes healing less sometimes more. Perhaps occasionaly not even working at all?

Nope, he always works. And always heals 40%. Wether or not that makes any difference in the outcome of the battle is the variable part.

Doe the lifespark work offensively? That is, can you have a lifespark and a unit in the same tile, have that unit attack, and then be healed by the lifespark when it would normally die? Also, how does this spell work with withdraw chance?

Doe the lifespark work offensively? That is, can you have a lifespark and a unit in the same tile, have that unit attack, and then be healed by the lifespark when it would normally die? Also, how does this spell work with withdraw chance?

Nope its only defensive. Lifesparks as as handy when attacking as all healers, they can heal units before and after battle, but not during. This is my the first attempt to have a unit ability activate on someone elses turn.

It really doesnt interact with withdrawal. Withdraw is only checked just before the attacking unit is about to die, this is only activated when the defending unit is about to die.

It really doesnt interact with withdrawal. Withdraw is only checked just before the attacking unit is about to die, this is only activated when the defending unit is about to die.

Good. I was worried that the lifespark checking when the unit would die and the withdraw chance checking when the unit would die might interfere somehow.

Does the Lifespark receive the actual medic promotion or a medic-imitating promotion? I'd think using it in a stack would be more efficient than sacrifcing it if so.

Does the Lifespark receive the actual medic promotion or a medic-imitating promotion? I'd think using it in a stack would be more efficient than sacrifcing it if so.

It has access to the heal spell, and the medic promotion. I mostly gave it the mdeic promotion so the AI would be better at knowing how to use it (put it with combat stacks).

Can't you make the AI think it has the medic promotion?

Can't you make the AI think it has the medic promotion?

Yes, but why make a change if I dont have to (specially with the AI, its messy). Easier to just give it the promotion, and it seems fitting that the top life summon would help those around it heal even outside of its main ability.

I just feel the Lifespark won't be sacrificed on will by most people.

But you don't get the choice. It saccs in defensive battles only. So if all of a sudden a horde of horse archers come from out of your LOS and assualt the main stack, your lifespark is probably going to take on for the cause. (Expect only when playing humans or after Chalid has been some more awesome)

I just feel the Lifespark won't be sacrificed on will by most people.

If you want a medic, why not build one of the other units with that promotion?

Because you can cast a spell (no hammers required)?

Because you can cast a spell (no hammers required)?

And since it takes no hammers, it's not all that big an investment to cast it again when the lifespark sacrifices itself. Si? :groucho:

Well, you do have to invest a promotion in a powerful third level caster, not to mention having life mana hooked up.

I'm personally very excited by the coding aspects and potentials here. What else is planed for "intervening" combat mechanics?

Healing is cool. Is there a way to implement poison? Some sort of small but cumulative damage during every successive round of combat? Poision units would have low strength, but every hit they'd Reapply thier poision damage, meaning the longer they live the ever increasing amounts of damage they would do. Is this possible?
-Qes

Well, you do have to invest a promotion in a powerful third level caster, not to mention having life mana hooked up.

Isn't it 3 life mana hooked up now?

I actually suggested poisons in the Suggestion Box, as my first suggestions... Unfortunately the thread died out like so many of my threads.

Four life mana will give you it for free, but you'll need one more promotion per life mana that you don't have, to a minimum of one life mana to allow access.

Four life mana will give you it for free, but you'll need one more promotion per life mana that you don't have, to a minimum of one life mana to allow access.

okay, cool. So the eternal flame wonder is very awesome now right? (Auto fireballs? Sign me up!)

Four life mana will give you it for free, but you'll need one more promotion per life mana that you don't have, to a minimum of one life mana to allow access.

That's true, but irrelevant to the speculation. The speculation was over how the spell would be used by players who have already chosen to create tier 3 casters who know Life 3 spells. That decision may be easy or hard to make, but the discussion assumed it had already been made.

The thought was, I'd rather cast a Lifespark had stack it with my army, than build a unit with the Medic promotion. Spells don't cost hammers. But, the thought continued, if the Lifespark casts itself, I'm screwed! There goes my Medic "unit"!

To which I replied: So what? Just cast another Lifespark. It's not like they take hammers or time to create. ;)

It depends when the regeneration for units takes place. If it's at the beginning of the turn (which I think it is given what I've seen while playing) then losing the lifespark in between can really really hurt. Though you still want medics for their great works & temple & founding abilities.

Making medics or getting life mana/promoting casters are both investments. That one is in hammers and the other in resource usage/time management is irrelevant. It's like saying, "Why build swordsmen when you can summon meteors?"

Not exactly, Lifesparks don't disappear and have an additional effect.

Isn't it 3 life mana hooked up now?

No. You only need one mana of the appropriate type to be able to learn all ranks of the sphere.

1 node = your casters can learn that spell sphere
2 nodes = your casters get rank 1 in that spell sphere for free
3 nodes = your casters get rank 2 in that spell sphere for free
4 nodes = your casters get rank 3 in that spell sphere for free

Drat, Chan beat me to it. :D

That's true, but irrelevant to the speculation. The speculation was over how the spell would be used by players who have already chosen to create tier 3 casters who know Life 3 spells. That decision may be easy or hard to make, but the discussion assumed it had already been made.

The thought was, I'd rather cast a Lifespark had stack it with my army, than build a unit with the Medic promotion. Spells don't cost hammers. But, the thought continued, if the Lifespark casts itself, I'm screwed! There goes my Medic "unit"!

To which I replied: So what? Just cast another Lifespark. It's not like they take hammers or time to create. ;)

I would add to this that a Lifespark is your typical summon, it only lasts for 1 turn (or 3 if you have the Summoner trait). So its use as a medic is mostly for flavor and to get the AI to be a little better with it. If you want a real medic for your units, you will still have to build one. And if your stack is injured you're better off summoning the lifespark and using its heal ability then letting it stick around for its medic effect.

Wait, then can a summoner have it heal every turn, or is it sac'd when it does that?

It just is able to do it every turn. It IS a life3 spell. And if you've a caster so devoted to life, it'd make sense that its a major part of the reason he exists.

-Qes

p.s. Is it possible to have a "Martyr" spell? Possibly like in the body sphere? It'd function the same, but instead of healing the unit, if the unit would "die" in combat, the martyr unit dies instead, and the ramining unit has 1 hp left, and is alive in the tile.

So it would save the unit regardless of how powerful its attacker was? Might be an interesting idea.

@Chand~
Especially if you cannot control it like the Lifespark. IT WILL work and IT WILL happen the first time its needed, might not be when you want.
-Qes

If it's a level three spell, you might as well have it so that it can be "bonded" with a unit, and that unit will survive its next combat. Unless we wanted to make it so that it would have a 100% chance of saving the first unit that would die when unbonded, but maybe a 50-75% chance of saving a unit that it was bonded to when it is bonded.

Hrm, maybe. I like the idea that the Martyr chooses what to die for, not the player/AI.
-Qes

It just is able to do it every turn. It IS a life3 spell. And if you've a caster so devoted to life, it'd make sense that its a major part of the reason he exists.

-Qes

p.s. Is it possible to have a "Martyr" spell? Possibly like in the body sphere? It'd function the same, but instead of healing the unit, if the unit would "die" in combat, the martyr unit dies instead, and the ramining unit has 1 hp left, and is alive in the tile.

Yeah, some sort of guardian ability like that would be interesting.

Yeah, some sort of guardian ability like that would be interesting.

Maybe "bodyguard."

Though, that sounds like more of a "personal protection" for the magic-wielder who cast it. Still there might be interesting ideas in that too.
-Qes

What's that one type of golem in D&D called, the Shield Golem or something?

What's that one type of golem in D&D called, the Shield Golem or something?

Yah, the shield golem. Though if you wanted to play around with that concept the general consensus is "Tread carefully". Apparently Hasbro (of which Wizards is a subsidiary) gets fairly... aggressive about its IP.

Alright, then let's include a new construct that can take a hit for a spellcaster! We can call him a Gield Sholem!

Anyway, aren't Kael and co. protected by the fact that they aren't directly making a single penny because of this?

Alright, then let's include a new construct that can take a hit for a spellcaster! We can call him a Gield Sholem!

Anyway, aren't Kael and co. protected by the fact that they aren't directly making a single penny because of this?


Possibly, but never underestimate the power of a sufficiently large number of lawyers concentrated in one place...

I like Gield Sholems...

Alright, then let's include a new construct that can take a hit for a spellcaster! We can call him a Gield Sholem!

Anyway, aren't Kael and co. protected by the fact that they aren't directly making a single penny because of this?

Nah, being non-profit doesn't allow you to violate copyright. But if they decide to sue me they won't be able to go after my vast FfH holdings (though they could still sue for their losses if they could show some).

But it would never come to that, they would ask me to remove it and I would. And if they get more difficult then that, I dip into my emergency supply which contains a harshly worded confesion letter threatening them and their mothers and signed (with the real life name and home address) by Woodelf, it also contains a ticket to Puerta Rico and a pair of Grocho glasses.

But it would never come to that, they would ask me to remove it and I would. And if they get more difficult then that, I dip into my emergency supply which contains a harshly worded confesion letter threatening them and their mothers and signed (with the real life name and home address) by Woodelf, it also contains a ticket to Puerta Rico and a pair of Grocho glasses.
By some odd chance, you probably look just like Woodelf when you are wearing Grocho glasses.
On topic, um, lifespark sounds cool. Hard to start a new game looking through the impressive change list.

Making medics or getting life mana/promoting casters are both investments. That one is in hammers and the other in resource usage/time management is irrelevant. It's like saying, "Why build swordsmen when you can summon meteors?"

I failed to communicate my point I think. I don't disagree with anything above.

What I was trying to say that if a player already controls a unit that can cast a tier-3 Life spell, it is very easy to replace a lifespark unit. I was making no comment on how easy or hard it was to obtain this Life 3 spellcasting capability. If one already owns the capability to cast one spell each turn, is it not an investment when one casts one spell each turn. That's whay I was trying to say.

Lifespark seems good enough as is to go under playtest. Lifespark acts only on the defense, so in the vast majority of cases the first units to risk death are the best units available. I'm thinking in practical use, players would be saying "Yay Lifespark!" most times. Maybe it wouldn't save the most experienced unit every time, but these things happen in war.

Also, since it acts only defensively, won't it grant its Medic bonus at the beginning of the turn? Right now units heal before they are subject to attack, or is my impression wrong? If so, a Lifespark will alsways serve its secondary mission before it risks serving its primary role.

Example: You have wounded units but cannot afford to retreat. There's no medic unit in the tile either. (So I guess you have a Life-3 Conjuror here, as a Life-3 Disciple unit would have the Medic skill themselves.) So the Conjuror castts Lifespark. Your turn ends and units get their heal-up credit. Then the AI turns run. The tile is attacked, and the Lifespark saves the first doomed unit. Whatever happens during the AI turn happens, and it comes around to your turn again. Your Summoner is ready to cast Lifespark again. Seems to me this provides constant mediacal assistance. Am I misunderstanding the sequence here?

:hmm: One nation can have quite a few of these critters running around. There may be several Lifesparks in an important tile. I'm uncertain of the rules here. Could one nation in theory have 9 Lifesparks up at any one time? 3 from High Priests, 3 from Inquisitors, and 3 from Summoners? And perhaps more from certain Heroes? Anyway, it occurs to me that a high-defense city tile with 8 Lifesparks in it is going to be, let us say, friggin' nigh impossible to take? That's means the attacker needs 8 more units nearby to attack 8 more times to kill the 0.01 STR units left alive. Don't kill 'em and boom Heal spell and the defending units are back to 100%. (If you can create 8 Lifesparks, you can cast Heal.)

Well, Plauge would make such a city sackable, with enough casters. But it will be interesting to see the effect of many Lifesparks in one tile.

The idea of cloning this function to a Martyr promotion is certainly full of flava. And amusing unitended consequences, perhaps? We wary of promoting that Order Acolyte (right name? my bad) that Acolyte all the way up to High Priest. He never 'forgot' that Martyr promotion, The guys in the ambushed 0 exp Warrior unit really appreceated his gesture, but the Army does miss their level 11 healing machine. :lol:

The idea to tie the Lifespark to a unit would avid those surprises ... but does it not smack of more bourgasie oppression of the masses? All units are martyr-worthy, but some units are more martyr-worth than others? We want our heroes flinging themselves upon every sputtering hand grenade! But it sounds right up the alley for those "the needs of the many" Law-abiding drones. :D

Actually, it's a fine mechanic. But I think there are times you'd want it to work as it is now, whenever needed. For spells that have to be cast every turn for many turns in a row, its nice if casting takes just one mouse click. If a targeting window opens every time but is rarely used, that could get annoying. Just picking at nits.

Possibly, but never underestimate the power of a sufficiently large number of lawyers concentrated in one place...

Curious as to what the number might be. Is it non-integer? If so, can we call a quorum? :devil:

Nah, being non-profit doesn't allow you to violate copyright. But if they decide to sue me they won't be able to go after my vast FfH holdings (though they could still sue for their losses if they could show some).

But it would never come to that, they would ask me to remove it and I would. And if they get more difficult then that, I dip into my emergency supply which contains a harshly worded confesion letter threatening them and their mothers and signed (with the real life name and home address) by Woodelf, it also contains a ticket to Puerta Rico and a pair of Grocho glasses.

Always good to have a fallback position. :thumbsup:

Yes, the issue of a lifespark acting under both roles seems like it might be more powerful than intended. We should playtest it before deciding to just fool the AI, though.

I failed to communicate my point I think. I don't disagree with anything above.

What I was trying to say that if a player already controls a unit that can cast a tier-3 Life spell, it is very easy to replace a lifespark unit. I was making no comment on how easy or hard it was to obtain this Life 3 spellcasting capability. If one already owns the capability to cast one spell each turn, is it not an investment when one casts one spell each turn. That's whay I was trying to say.

Lifespark seems good enough as is to go under playtest. Lifespark acts only on the defense, so in the vast majority of cases the first units to risk death are the best units available. I'm thinking in practical use, players would be saying "Yay Lifespark!" most times. Maybe it wouldn't save the most experienced unit every time, but these things happen in war.

Also, since it acts only defensively, won't it grant its Medic bonus at the beginning of the turn? Right now units heal before they are subject to attack, or is my impression wrong? If so, a Lifespark will alsways serve its secondary mission before it risks serving its primary role.

Example: You have wounded units but cannot afford to retreat. There's no medic unit in the tile either. (So I guess you have a Life-3 Conjuror here, as a Life-3 Disciple unit would have the Medic skill themselves.) So the Conjuror castts Lifespark. Your turn ends and units get their heal-up credit. Then the AI turns run. The tile is attacked, and the Lifespark saves the first doomed unit. Whatever happens during the AI turn happens, and it comes around to your turn again. Your Summoner is ready to cast Lifespark again. Seems to me this provides constant mediacal assistance. Am I misunderstanding the sequence here?

:hmm: One nation can have quite a few of these critters running around. There may be several Lifesparks in an important tile. I'm uncertain of the rules here. Could one nation in theory have 9 Lifesparks up at any one time? 3 from High Priests, 3 from Inquisitors, and 3 from Summoners? And perhaps more from certain Heroes? Anyway, it occurs to me that a high-defense city tile with 8 Lifesparks in it is going to be, let us say, friggin' nigh impossible to take? That's means the attacker needs 8 more units nearby to attack 8 more times to kill the 0.01 STR units left alive. Don't kill 'em and boom Heal spell and the defending units are back to 100%. (If you can create 8 Lifesparks, you can cast Heal.)

Well, Plauge would make such a city sackable, with enough casters. But it will be interesting to see the effect of many Lifesparks in one tile.

The idea of cloning this function to a Martyr promotion is certainly full of flava. And amusing unitended consequences, perhaps? We wary of promoting that Order Acolyte (right name? my bad) that Acolyte all the way up to High Priest. He never 'forgot' that Martyr promotion, The guys in the ambushed 0 exp Warrior unit really appreceated his gesture, but the Army does miss their level 11 healing machine. :lol:

The idea to tie the Lifespark to a unit would avid those surprises ... but does it not smack of more bourgasie oppression of the masses? All units are martyr-worthy, but some units are more martyr-worth than others? We want our heroes flinging themselves upon every sputtering hand grenade! But it sounds right up the alley for those "the needs of the many" Law-abiding drones. :D

Actually, it's a fine mechanic. But I think there are times you'd want it to work as it is now, whenever needed. For spells that have to be cast every turn for many turns in a row, its nice if casting takes just one mouse click. If a targeting window opens every time but is rarely used, that could get annoying. Just picking at nits.

(SPOILERed out the stuff not relevant to my comment.)

While that was a nice enough rant, it clearly showed that you haven't even read the original post. Do so first next time, I say - skipping it reduces much of your post to meaningless blather.

This doesn't interrupt combat, the battle goes on.
This means lifespark does not guarantee survival.

Anyway - how will lifesparks stack? Will it be possible for several lifesparks to affect a single combat, making 3 sparks add +120% of maximum to the effective health of defenders?

Yay! Too bad I don't see late game too often. :)

(SPOILERed out the stuff not relevant to my comment.)

While that was a nice enough rant, it clearly showed that you haven't even read the original post. Do so first next time, I say - skipping it reduces much of your post to meaningless blather.


This means lifespark does not guarantee survival.

Anyway - how will lifesparks stack? Will it be possible for several lifesparks to affect a single combat, making 3 sparks add +120% of maximum to the effective health of defenders?

:lol: Point out the 'blather' chump. Sounds like you are the one who has not read deeply enough into th e thread. :lol:

To test the healing effects of 3 Lifesparks in one tile, build three adept units with +40% healing abilities, and enter combat. Whay are you wasting time with your blather, when you could be answering these questions for us? :lol:

Yes, the issue of a lifespark acting under both roles seems like it might be more powerful than intended. We should playtest it before deciding to just fool the AI, though.

I doubt this will be considered too powerful, as by the time tier-3 casters are available, +40% Heal medics are going to be pretty common. Most of the casters able to cast this spell will be Disciple units for faiths that allow access to Life magic. The only possible caster who would not know Medic themselves would be a Summoner, right? So adding a small amount of +40% heal to such a small number of units does not seem unbalancing, considering the relative "investments" to get there. :)

I doubt this will be considered too powerful, [...] considering the relative "investments" to get there. :)
I also think so. If there are eight lifespark-casters in the defending city, the attacker would have high-lvl casters as well. What about three archmages, three liches and two priests with Fire-III? Don't you think that 18 meteors and 2 pillars of flame might inflict more damage than 8 lifesparks could heal? 8*40% = 320% of one unit's health. In a city full of defenders the fire spells' collateral damage would be much higher than that.

Heh, I said "more powerful than they intended," quite different from saying that it will be overpowered. I get the feeling that Kael & co. said "Let's have a unit that can be sacrificed to heal, even in the middle of battle." The medic abilities were an afterthought. I don't think it should be too powerful, unless used en masse (27 possible with a summoner trait leader, I believe), but then you can say that about just about all spells. It's part of what I like about them. :D

Edit: Actually, it would only be 9 possible with a summoner if it requires summoning to cast. It does, right? I assume it won't be displacing other Life 3 spells.

Edit: Actually, it would only be 9 possible with a summoner if it requires summoning to cast. It does, right? I assume it won't be displacing other Life 3 spells.
You could get more if you created flesh golems out of any Life-III spellcaster and a normal conjurer or priest of the veil.

Ummm, are flesh golems national units at the moment?

Actually, I'm pretty sure they aren't... :rolleyes:

I may have missed this being asked, but will several Lifesparks sacrifice themselves automatically when a unit is on the verge of death in their stack?

I also think so. If there are eight lifespark-casters in the defending city, the attacker would have high-lvl casters as well. What about three archmages, three liches and two priests with Fire-III? Don't you think that 18 meteors and 2 pillars of flame might inflict more damage than 8 lifesparks could heal? 8*40% = 320% of one unit's health. In a city full of defenders the fire spells' collateral damage would be much higher than that.


The advantage of the life spark is that it strengenths your strongest defender, which might be better than having a mediocre defender instead of the caster. (think e.g. archeron with 8 life sparks...)

Will units with the marksman promotion "kill" lifesparks? Personally, I think killing lifesparks should either heal the unit which killed it or all the other units within it's tile devided equally (e.g. 8 units in a tile would be healed 5% each).

:lol: Point out the 'blather' chump

Oh, I did point out the blather: You're claiming lifesparks always save the defending unit, when it was clarified in the first post that combat keeps going, likely getting that 0.01-strength unit killed anyway.

I also think so. If there are eight lifespark-casters in the defending city, the attacker would have high-lvl casters as well. What about three archmages, three liches and two priests with Fire-III? Don't you think that 18 meteors and 2 pillars of flame might inflict more damage than 8 lifesparks could heal? 8*40% = 320% of one unit's health. In a city full of defenders the fire spells' collateral damage would be much higher than that.

Well, I've not used Pillars of Flame yet (I gotta up my difficulty settings to make games go longer) but for my money I'd use Plauge. You only need tier-2 costers for that. The Fireball's collateral damage will not drive a defender below 50% STR. But Plague's collateral damage will. So if I have Fire and Death casters, I make use to send in the Fireballs first.

The other advantage to Plague is it will damage the first, best defender. A swarm of Fireballs might damage the best defender, but often all that happens is the collateral damage. You still can't defeat that full strngth 5* 3xCity Defense HvCrosbow that leads teh defense, so all the collateral damage goes to waste. With Plague, that HvCrossbow wil be down to about 25%-50% STR and Diseased. The city falls.

(Heh, yet another edit. The other, other advantage to Plague is that hammering the victims with it does not earn the defender 1 exp point per casting, like a Fireball barrage does. (Do I think plague is overpowered? Before I answer, can you guess what Plague's other other other advantage is?):))

You'd still need a lot of Plague casters though. Hammer the Plagues for all you're worth. Then start attacking units already badly wounded. The lifespark heals will probably not be strong enough to save its unit every time it triggers, because (presumablely) the attacking unit will still be near it's full STR at the time Lifespark triggers. With enough Plague casters, it should be possible to kill a couple-few defenders each turn. Will reinforcements arrive in time? Sounds like quite a battle, actually.

Which raises a question. Does Lifespark trigger only during a combat? Or, will it also trigger if a unit is about to die from a spellcast like Plague? (Plagues collateral damae will flat-out kill a badly wounded unit in the tile.)

Oh, I did point out the blather: You're claiming lifesparks always save the defending unit, when it was clarified in the first post that combat keeps going, likely getting that 0.01-strength unit killed anyway.

Is that your definition of blatther? :lol: OK. try this on for size.


One nation can have quite a few of these critters running around. There may be several Lifesparks in an important tile. I'm uncertain of the rules here. Could one nation in theory have 9 Lifesparks up at any one time? 3 from High Priests, 3 from Inquisitors, and 3 from Summoners? And perhaps more from certain Heroes? Anyway, it occurs to me that a high-defense city tile with 8 Lifesparks in it is going to be, let us say, friggin' nigh impossible to take? That's means the attacker needs up to 8 more units nearby to attack up to 8 more times to kill the 0.01 STR units left alive. Don't kill 'em and boom Heal spell and the defending units are back to 100%. (If you can create 8 Lifesparks, you can cast Heal.)

Excuse me, oh Omnipotent One, for imprecise wording. Imagine that, the addition of the words "up to" take my post from pure blather, to far wiser than anything you'll ever write.

Not that that journey is a long one, mind you.

So, I take it it is your prediction that the presence of 8 Lifespark units in a heavily defended tile will have negligible impact on the ability of an attacker to capture that tile? If you feel my post is blather, that is what you are saying.

This is where things are traditionally settled via wager. Myself, I wouldn't mind someone else paying off my mortgage. You game?

Heh, I said "more powerful than they intended," quite different from saying that it will be overpowered. I get the feeling that Kael & co. said "Let's have a unit that can be sacrificed to heal, even in the middle of battle." The medic abilities were an afterthought. I don't think it should be too powerful, unless used en masse (27 possible with a summoner trait leader, I believe), but then you can say that about just about all spells. It's part of what I like about them. :D

Edit: Actually, it would only be 9 possible with a summoner if it requires summoning to cast. It does, right? I assume it won't be displacing other Life 3 spells.

Ahh, I see. Yes, I suspect you are right in that Kael & Ko. might very well have assumed the +40% medic would almost always go unused. In that sense it might be more powerful than intended, :yup:

I believe your comments on the Summoning this is correct. I think it would be a max of nine. Except for that Flesh Golem thing. The only flesh golem I built seemed like it just replaced two units with one of the same exact capabilities. That didn't seem too useful. Guess I shoulda experimented with more experienced, different units. :p

The addition of 'up to' takes your statement from blather to nonsense, which I suppose is an improvement of sorts.

Nine lifesparks add an effective 360% heal to dying units in the tile - no more, no less - three attackers, nine attackers, twelve attacker - it doesn't matter.

You don't need eight more attackers, you don't need up to eight more attackers, what you need is enough attackers to deal that much damage - this can be more than eight or less than eight, and the number of actual attacks doesn't matter.
(unless there is a limit to the number of lifesparks triggering in any one combat, of course.)

Using nine high-level summoners to turn one defender into what is effectively 4.6 (less if the defender is wounded) defenders of the same strength for a turn might be powerful, but nine regular third-tier summons should prove stronger unless that one defender is a very powerful unit. Further, if the tile is not attacked on that turn, eight of the summoners will have wasted their spells.


Now, I do apologize for calling much of your post meaningless blather - only that piece would qualify as such.

I think it might be worthwhile to point out that if the unit is the only one in its tile, then yes, it is effectively 4.6 times as effective as it would be normally. However, if there are other defenders of even marginal strength, and there are many attackers, it's likely that after some battle or another, the strong unit will be weakened, and the next opponent to attack will instead attack one of the other units (and the lifesparks will probably be used on that defender instead).

Edit: Though I do agree with you that other summons are probably more effective... if not quite so versatile.

I believe your comments on the Summoning this is correct. I think it would be a max of nine You overlook summoner's twincast. max of 12 :P
However, if you have a stack of 3 inq, 3 hp, and 3 summ, and your opponent doesn't have similar coming at you, you deserve to own. If he does have similar, you could be getting a bucket load of his own summons to eliminate the lifesparks before the knights et al come in.

even life spark alone is not usefull enough to defened against more than basic collateral.

how about a spell that heals units in the stack whenever a unit dies?
the bigger the unit the bigger the heal(based on shield to make*icombat)
you still wouldn't be invulnerable and it would be useless if the enemy could destroy your best unit without any trouble
or maybe when lifespark dies it heals all units in the same tile?(no medic promo)

I still don't get why it should not be useful, it might not be as good as other level 3 spells, I don't know, but still...

Imagine the following situation.

You have a hero and a summoner that summoned lifespark on the same tile. No imagine a strong unit attacking your stack. Your hero, being the best defender, gets into combat and gets hurt badly, but that instant 40% heal might just save his life.

Isn't that as good as having some other strong unit instead of the lifespark summoner (that still wouldn't save the hero in that situation)?

lifespark increases the base odd of a unit winning a battle-so that even if your unit really isn't as good as thiers you still can slightly increase your chances of winning-like a fortification that doesn't become less powerfull compared to raising combat most of the time
it's an easy way to reinforce units against more powerful attackers-in a battle thats not hopeless it's very likely to turn the tide

The same thing doesnt have to be done with a unit right? Could just be a promotion.

Like you promote a unit with Auto-Life (to copy Final Fantasy), if your unit dies during combat, it is revived and continues combat. etc. Or a stoneskin promotion, which lowers damage by 15% or something.

Right?

The same thing doesnt have to be done with a unit right? Could just be a promotion.

Like you promote a unit with Auto-Life (to copy Final Fantasy), if your unit dies during combat, it is revived and continues combat. etc. Or a stoneskin promotion, which lowers damage by 15% or something.

Right?

Yeap, in fact stoneskin is a promotion that works just like that. It protects from 3 hits (in three combat events where the stoneskinned unit loses the round the damage is reduced to 0) in the same section of code as lifespark.

The addition of 'up to' takes your statement from blather to nonsense, which I suppose is an improvement of sorts.

Nine lifesparks add an effective 360% heal to dying units in the tile - no more, no less - three attackers, nine attackers, twelve attacker - it doesn't matter.

You don't need eight more attackers, you don't need up to eight more attackers, what you need is enough attackers to deal that much damage - this can be more than eight or less than eight, and the number of actual attacks doesn't matter.
(unless there is a limit to the number of lifesparks triggering in any one combat, of course.)

Using nine high-level summoners to turn one defender into what is effectively 4.6 (less if the defender is wounded) defenders of the same strength for a turn might be powerful, but nine regular third-tier summons should prove stronger unless that one defender is a very powerful unit. Further, if the tile is not attacked on that turn, eight of the summoners will have wasted their spells.


Now, I do apologize for calling much of your post meaningless blather - only that piece would qualify as such.

I just wanted to point out that they also heal the units in the same tile before sacrifice.

so stoneskin is like +3 first strikes that aren't taken away vs units immune to first strikes?

so stoneskin is like +3 first strikes that aren't taken away vs units immune to first strikes?

Yeah, I almost just had stoneskin give 3 first strikes but in the end I gave it its own mechanic. The differences are that since I track the amount of hits against the stoneskin I can remove or leave it depending on if it has protected against X amount of hits. Also I think first strikes are all calculated at the begining of combat, and stoneskin only plays a role when the unit loses a combat round so I think stoneskin is a bit more useful.

The addition of 'up to' takes your statement from blather to nonsense, which I suppose is an improvement of sorts.

Nine lifesparks add an effective 360% heal to dying units in the tile - no more, no less - three attackers, nine attackers, twelve attacker - it doesn't matter.

You don't need eight more attackers, you don't need up to eight more attackers, what you need is enough attackers to deal that much damage - this can be more than eight or less than eight, and the number of actual attacks doesn't matter.
(unless there is a limit to the number of lifesparks triggering in any one combat, of course.)

Using nine high-level summoners to turn one defender into what is effectively 4.6 (less if the defender is wounded) defenders of the same strength for a turn might be powerful, but nine regular third-tier summons should prove stronger unless that one defender is a very powerful unit. Further, if the tile is not attacked on that turn, eight of the summoners will have wasted their spells.


Now, I do apologize for calling much of your post meaningless blather - only that piece would qualify as such.

You assign significance to a distinction that holds no substansive diffrence. :sleep:

I am not responsible for your one-unit-defending scenrio.

The premise described strongly defended tile, which by definition includes more than one very capable unit in reltion to the attacker's capabilities, plus fortification/dug-in/terrain advantages. For someone quick to flame over aleged poor reading habits, you should do better.

In my experience these few top-defending unit does the brunt of the fighting. More often than not a wounded skilled unit will be selected to defend rather than oe of the 'militia'. And that is when they die, they enter battle with a new unit with far fewer hitpoints than 100%. The attacker scors a few hits and the defender dies. But give him a boost and he might survive that combat. Add another quality defederunit or two, and a stack of Lifesparks, and the attacker is faced with mounting many attacks before he can expect to actually kill a defender.

Sure, if you change the scenario, you can achieve any result you want. Give the attackers a stack of Plague csters and they don't have to rely upon so many direct attacks. Make the defending unit a Scout in Desert against a 5* Flurry and no number of lifesparks will save it.

But for a looming close fight where units will actually engage, excuse me for thinking the Lifespark will prove both fun and effective. If want to take me to task for thinking that, fine.

Sure, if you change the scenario, you can achieve any result you want. Give the attackers a stack of Plague csters and they don't have to rely upon so many direct attacks. Make the defending unit a Scout in Desert against a 5* Flurry and no number of lifesparks will save it.

Or use Marksmen ;)