Welcome ladies and gentlemen to the fifth installment of Tupac's Succession Games. Today we will be replaying a classic game, the legendary Goz8 - Silence is Golden (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=106588)!

For those who can't be bothered reading through the thread here is the variant that we will be playing...

ok, i have an idea. let's try to frame the rules via Arathorn's ruleset as follows:

Tactless: You may never initiate diplomacy. If the AI initiates diplomacy you must either reject or accept their offer. No haggling. then you may haggle.

Defiant: You must never give in to a demand from an opponent, that is, you always reject demands for tribute. You may never ally, sign a Right of Passage, MPP, or embargo with another civilization. You may never pay for peace (a peace treaty must either be straight-up or the opponent gives a concession to you. A deal where a tech costs 20 gpt normally and you pay 10 gpt for that tech as part of a peace treaty is fine). Any troops on your soil must be given a boot order every turn. No capturing foreign cities or demanding them in diplomacy. No foreign workers merged into existing cities. If an AI razes one of your cities, that civ must be eliminated. Any troops within striking range of one of your cities must be given the boot order every turn they are within striking range.
Defient rules kick in immediately or at turn 50 or whatever we can agree on.


I'm also in favour of playing an all-random game (world, barbs and civ) although that is up for discussion.
This game will be played in Vanilla 1.29f.

THIS IS NOT PTW OR C3C! PLEASE TAKE NOTE OF THIS BEFORE SIGNING UP! MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A WORKING COPY OF VANILLA

Difficulty level will probably depend on who joins, I am in favour of deity although I'm willing to drop that down to emperor if the rest of the team would prefer that.

If anyone wants to raise any points or ask any questions feel free.
This will be a difficult game so if you are not comfortable at at least monarch you might be better off lurking for this one.

Game Rules
As modified from LK Rules

The following tactics are PROHIBITED:

No 'Free Wealth' - Setting a city to wealth at the end of its project and then cycling through the cities at the start of the next turn and changing its project so that you still get the gold (commerce being calculated before anything else in the turn) but also get production

RoP Abuse Tactics - Denying resources, blocking key tiles, RoP rape, or other ways to screw-up a civ via the RoP. A scout in AI territory has an explicit RoP and is subject to this rule.

Peace Treaty abuse - If you get concessions from the AI you must wait for the 20 turns to end before declaring another war.

Resource abuse - You can't disconnect / reconnect a resource every turn for the sake of building cheap units to upgrade with excess cash.

Ship chaining exploit - you can move a ship, unload troops to another ship in the same square not using any movement, move that ship, etc. This allows you to ship an indefinite distance, and that is why I consider it an exploit.

The negative science exploit - you can run a huge deficit (-250 / turn) of negative cash with a token penalty of one lost worker / cheap building. If cash will go below zero, the research level must be dropped.

Worker baiting - You can't spread around and sacrifice workers to an oncoming attack. This is often done to avoid losing real units or cities. This takes advantage of the AI failure to prioritize targets.

Worker blockades - You can't fortify a bunch of workers along the coast to prevent invasions, or shut down the borders with workers. The workers must be actively doing something.

House rules:
1) Worker automation of any kind is prohibited.

2) Our reputation is golden - please respect it.

3)You ARE allowed to initially keep a city, move a settler to the same spot as the city, and then abandon and immediately resettle.

4)In addition if you need to build a city one square deeper into enemy territory just to move borders to steal a resource, go for it.

5)We may keep or raze cities, and can keep slaves and you may whip at will, including captured cities or cities where all citizens are unhappy

6) Even if not covered under exploits listed, please try not to use tactics that take advantage of holes in the game design unless previously discussed and approved by the team.

7) It is an expectation of all players on the team to log every turn played (even if it merely requires you to post 'zzz')

8) It is an expectation that you will always leave the next player an interturn, so make sure all saves are handed over at the end of your last turn and not the beggining of the next player's first turn.

9) Please complete your turnset. It is very annoying for the next player to receive a half-finished turnset.


SG Rules

24 hour got it
72 hour playing time
The first player will play 40 turns, the rest of the team will play 20 turns in the first round. Once everyone has played 1 turnset all players will play 10 turn turnsets.
Playing order will be established after check in.


Roster (not necessarily playing order)

Reserved Places

tupaclives - confirmed
JJJSpider - confirmed
pneuma - withdrawn

Sign Ups

Vind2
Empiremaker
Markh

I'll sign up :D I'm an emperor llevel player though. BTW I enjoy your stories.

Signing In!

So Cool! I can’t wait.
Just a Rule Clarification:

We can now haggle if they initiate the Trade.
Does that mean for only what they are offering or is anything fair game.
Example:
AI has Music Theory and Astronomy
They offer MT for Metallurgy. Does this mean he can only haggle for MT only or MT must be part of the deal?
1) MT, 400g, 30gpt for Metallurgy
2) MT, Astronomy For Metallurgy
3) Astronomy 400g for Metallurgy

Difficulty and settings: I will have plenty of help to cover up my little mistakes. So any difficulty will be OK.

Signing in!

Random everything sounds good, but I'm a bit worried about pulling expansionist on an archipelago. Also I don't know if you mean to have random world size, but I don't want to play on a tiny or huge map.

@vind2 - excellent, welcome aboard!

@JJJSpider - in Goz8 anything was fair game, but bear in mind thats not as easy as it might seem as remember with any big buys you can't on-trade them.

Can we turn "always renegotiate deals" on so that we can get a chance to talk every 20 turns, or is that against the rules?

Good question. I think it would be against the rules but i'm not sure.

I've played this variant in Monarch level, and let me tell you, its challenging. It's not if this turns in a AW game, considering you are defiant, so you must always say "NO!" to demands. And at one point, you get a monopoly and every civ comes on your doorstep. I digged up some other Silent Games, done by TheERat. Unfortunately, they werent successes, but they were on DG. Rat-05 was on Emperor. Maybe on Vanilla its easier, (no Ancient Cavalry).

Rat-05 Silent Game (Korea) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=125010)

Rat-04 Silent Greeks (Demigod) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=114849)

A crucial mistake in Rat-05 was choosing Republic. Sure the war happines from civs declaring war on you may be a bonus, but the extended war, a.k.a. , until they decide to do peace, you gotta stay alive and well. Monarchy is a great government for this type of game, cause you never know when someone will demand something from you. All in all, good luck to all who sign up. I'll be lurking with interest. :bounce: :rockon:

lurkers comment:

I am glad that you chose this 'classic game' as a reference. It was one of the best games I ever played. My follow up SG's weren't as successful. The game has the potential to turn into a AW game and since you can't negotiate, republic is the wrong government choice for sure.
Anyway, I wish you guys good luck ;)

Good question. I think it would be against the rules but i'm not sure.

A very good question, I'm going to rule that no we have to turn it off or else we know that we get a guaranteed chance to talk every 20 turns. I think its more interestng if we have to wait for them to choose to talk, makes it more exciting when they do (sort of)

I agree. An other question: Are we allowed to Check what techs/ resources our opponents?

My computer died a while back, so I'm getting a copy of C3C mac-probably on Monday. I'm pretty sure I could play- so could you hold a spot open?

I'd prefer Emperor, even though I play DG, Deity is too much for the variant (I think).

Random would be fine, but can you do random map size in Vanilla? I find large and huge to big for me, but might be fine of an SG.

Is it legal to check techs/rescources via CivAssist or similar programs?

P.S. This would be my first SG, though I've read logs so I know how it works, for the most part.

I don't think I can play this. I have Civ 3 Complete for Mac, so I can run C3C and PTW as an unsupported extra, but I can't do vanilla as I previously thought. Sorry. :\

I'll be watching this with interest though, so if someone wants to correct me on this before the game starts then I'll be happy to not leave.

Agh! sorry to see you leave pneuma, at least the game hadn't already started.
Empiremaker, welcome aboard, we'll slot you down the roster to give you plenty of time to get your new cd. I'm leaning towards an attempt at emperor as well even though I usually play variants on dg for more sp games.

If we can get at least one more sign-up then we should be ready to go.

Is DG in vanilla?

No but deity in vanilla is the equivilant of Demi-god in Conquests, or so I'm lead to believe...

I also haven't played vanilla in a while (1-2 years).

I should remember most of it, and the 'pedia can always help, but how does the FP work again?

FP= 2nd palace :D

I always thought that silence should mean that you don't post a turnset; you just pass the save without saying a thing about planning or what you've done.

I cannot leave the tupac SGames with a loss (tupac4) can I ? ;) So I would like to join this.

Markh! Welcome back into the fold! I was hoping a veteran of one of my past games would join, its good to be playing with you again!

@tribute: No, i don't know what you're thinking of... first of all the actual variant is Tactless and Defiant (with alterations), the name of our sample game was silence is golden because you werent really meant to be talking to the AI. I can't recall any game that played the variant you described.

*me smiles evilly*

Roster so far?

Well as it stands here is the roster (not the playing order0

tupaclives
JJJSpider
vind2
Empiremaker
and Markh

Thats easilyenough for us to make a start so I think we just need to sort out a few details before I roll up the starts. As this is vanilla not Conquests we cant be Sumeria (as the original game was) so who do we want to play as? Having never tried this variant I think someone with solid military abilities (industrious or militaristic) and research capabilities would probably be our best bet. I'd be looking at Germany or Persia as my preference. Also what do people want with regards difficulty. Obviously i'm in favour of deity but if the rest of you are less keen on that then i'm perfectly happy to play it at emporor. Do we want a random world (standard size though)? or do we want to be a bit picky? random opponents and barbs is a given however.

Random Land Mass= Yes
I'm comfortable on Emperor but Diety would be a challange. I guess china would fit into that discription. I would chose Persia. Immortals=beast.

Maps completely random is cool.
Difficulty: I comfortable with Emperor. I am also fine with Deity but I never play on that level. If we go with Deity I will ask to be later in the rotation.

I see both Civs mentioned are Scientific.
Oh how I love that industrious trait, cities up and running so much quicker.
So Persia is great for that. Plus the immortal does rock for about two ages.
However, there is something about cheaper Barracks and a much later GA with Germany that seems much more appealing to me.
So I will Vote Germany.

Since, I really do think this Variant will ultimately end up like an AW Scenario. Until the Ai thinks it wants Peace since we can’t pursue it ourselves and then only when we are being paid. Some Insanely long wars are in the future so Monarchy I think is the government to shoot for.

I'd take Perisa as well. Immortals= insanely powerful (But in Vanilla lack upgrades) , and science will be needed and Industrious in vanilla- enough said

Other choices (ranked in order)
China- IND and MIL, Great UU, good timing.
Japan-1 turn anarchy and Mil so that we can easily swith between Republic and Monarchy. Samurai is a great UU with good timing
Germany-UU comes too late, and SCI is only above average
Egypt-IND is way OP and REL is nice (See Japan)
Bablyon- Weak UU, but SCI and REL, traits 2 and 3 in my mind for Vanilla.
Rome- Starts with alpha, MIL and great UU
Iroquois- For the UU- But an Arch map would be bad.


For the map I would prefer:
Size: Small or Standard (Large would work, but I don't prefer it)
Barbs: Random
Land: Random
Terrian: Random
Rivals: Random
Our Civ: Persia
Difficulty: Emperor

I think our strategy should be to treat it as a delayed always war, and if were REL, we could get GL; research up to Republic, revolt, and when we go to war switch to Monarchy.

Tupac: Can I have last in the roster? I want/need time to get patches, and I won't get Civ until Wednesday :sad:.

We've got 3 votes for emperor and random map, 1 vote for germany and 2 for persia. I'll wait to see what Markh has to say before I make any final decisions, although it appears that Emperor and random are now givens.
The immortal is an awesome UU, Industrious is massively overpowered and cheaper libraries will be of great help in a game like this... however having said that the later GA really appeals to me. And Germany (along with Rome) is probably my favourite civ, even though they aren't especially powerful they have a certain mystique for me.

My vote ofr the world and difficulty is moot by now so I'll leave that

So we have, all random opponents, barbs, landmass. Emperor difficulty.

and for the civs we've got
2 votes Persia
2 votes Germany

so I'm going to have to ask Markh to pick one of the two and break the deadlock for us. Then I'll work out the play order and we'll get started

Uh, I have to decide.:crazyeye: I haven't played Germany for a long time, so I vote for good ol' Bismarck.

Ok beautiful...

names in the hat....

playing order is...

markh...

vind2...

tupaclives...

JJJSpider...

with empiremaker slotting in last as per his request.

Playing order

Markh - up (40 turns)
vind2 - on deck (to play 20)
tupaclives
JJJSpider
empiremaker

Does anyone have a problem with the roster order? If there is could you let us know before we get started if possible?

Standard Size
Random Landmass
Random Barbs
Germany
7 Random Opponents
Emperor...

omg... no-one will believe this was the first start rolled...

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7038/picture1ox3.jpg

Is everyone ok with that, or would you prefer me to roll up a different start?

If you want to get started here's the save.

:eek: That is a nice one.:drool:

I can start it. No problem with that. If no one objects I can take it tonight in about 10 hours from now.

I would move the settler 1 NE to avoid wasting the BG he is standing on.

Go right ahead and start when you want, remember, you have 40 turns so you should be able to make decent use of the start.

I would agree with 1NE with the settler, that way we don't get landlocked. I'd move the worker straight to the grassland cow and irrigate, starting Berlin on Wealth --> Worker means we'll get a 5 turn worker (wealth for 1 turn so that the food supply is right) and with two workers this early we should be able to get a 4-turner up no worries.

Of course that's just me, and I'm not the one starting the game :lol:

go get 'em Markh! It'll be just like Tupac02 ;)

That would be nice, but we cannot irrigate the grass land cow as it is not on the river.;) I will check the save during my lunchbreak and see how I can get it started in the evening.

100 Starts and there is no way I get a location like that.
I am slightly confused about a NE Movement wouldn't that take us away from the Grassland Cow or am I just looking at it wrong?? :crazyeye:

It would take us away for ten turns. Then we have expansion from our palace and Berlin has it. We need to get irrigation there anywhere, so it is not a big deal I think.

:crazyeye: woops I meant move 1NW... :lol:

I would still prefer 1NE as there is something 1SE of the plains cow. Looks like sugar or something. To the NW is too much jungle for my taste. Jungle in Germany ?:)

True the jungle does look nasty, but I don't see anything south of the plains cow, when I look at the picture. I could be wrong though. Also sugar isn't in vanilla ;)

I still think that 1NW is the best, because you don't need to irrigate any grasslands to be able to irrigate the grassland cow, which saves 4 worker turns, it also lets us pop a second worker really early which would, in the long term, reduce worker turns even more. Coupled with the fact that culture growth would occur right as we went to size 2 (assuming we had first skimmed off a 5-turn worker) means we would be working +4fpt and 4spt at size 2, which means 3-turn warriors for scouting and MP.

Of course all this is just suggestions, as I said before you're the one with the agony of choice ;)

True the jungle does look nasty, but I don't see anything south of the plains cow, when I look at the picture. I could be wrong though. Also sugar isn't in vanilla ;)

Damn, it is too much for my old brain to keep in mind the differences from vanilla, C3C and CIV. :crazyeye: Looked like sugar. Most likely it is just the coast.

Hard to choose where to settle. I am still unsure. Maybe I flip the cap of the beer I will open before playing. NW if the cap lands on the right side or NE if it lands on the wrong side. :)
First I have to decide which civ and now I have to decide where to settle. Man, what a morning.:lol:

First I'd move the worker to the plains cow, and see what the water is. If the water is coast, move the settler 2SE, so we get 2 cows, river and coast, and no Jungle.

Looking at 2SE I think that's Insence, and with river commerce, it should give us 3 commerce in the city square.

If the water's lake, Id move NE.

Irrigate both cows and we have, um... 1 + 2 + 2 =5

Four Turn Settler Factory [party][party]:dance::woohoo::band:

So lets go get pottery.

One question, should we ggo for the GL?

Ack time zone differance :( I slept through all of this :/ Also i think if a city is next to irrigation/(maybe river) you can irrigate from it. I'm gonna play a quick Regent on Vanilla to get used to the differances.

ok, it starts

0) 4000BC : worker goes NW, setter NE
the worker reveals another BG, so NW it will be

IBT : nothing

1) 3950BC : settler W, worker S on grass cow

IBT : nothing

2) 3900BC : found Berlin and we will have spices in the W after palace expansion. How nice !
There is a hut right out of range of Berlin.
worker irrigates the cow
research is set to pottery

IBT : nothing

3) 3850BC : zzz

IBT : nada

4) 3800BC : zzz

IBT : -

5) 3750BC : zzz

IBT : -

6) 3700BC : irrigation is done, roading

IBT : -

7) 3650BC : zzz

IBT : Berlin completes worker -> warrior

8) 3600BC : zzz

IBT : -

9) 3550BC : workers move to the plains cow, there is a scout in the mountains

IBT : -

10) 3500BC : workers start irrigating

IBT : we get a palace expansion and the hut teaches us ceremonial burial
we have much jungle and mountains around

11) 3450BC : zzz

IBT : -

12) 3400BC : workers road the plain cow

IBT : Catherine steps up and offers us pottery for warrior code straight
I take it, but I also want all her gold, so she gives us additional 10 gold
Research is set to IW in 36, horses are quite unlikely in our surroundings
Berlin completes a warrior -> warrior

13) 3350BC : move the warrior out of Berlin, adjust lux to 20%

IBT : -

14) 3300BC : workers move to BG

IBT : -

15) 3250BC : workers start to mine

IBT : Berlin completes warrior -> warrior

16) 3200BC : zzz

IBT : -

17) 3150BC : lux up to 30%

IBT : Berlin complets warrior -> settler

18) 3100BC : lux down to 10%

IBT : -

19) 3050BC : zzz

IBT : -

20) 3000BC : zzz

IBT : -

21) 2950BC : lux up 20% as Berlin grew

IBT : -

22) 2900BC : zzz

IBT : Berlin : settler -> granary

23) 2850BC : zzz

IBT : -

24) 2800BC : zzz

IBT : -

25) 2750BC : adjust lux due to growth of Berlin

IBT : -

26) 2710BC : found Leipzig -> warrior

IBT : a red warrior appears from NE

27) 2670BC : zzz

IBT : one of our scouting warrior defeats two barbs and promotes vet

28) 2630BC : zzz

IBT : -

29) 2590BC : adjust lux

IBT : -

30) 2550BC : zzz

IBT : Leipzig : warrior -> worker

31) 2510BC : zzz

IBT : Berlin : granary -> warrior

32) 2470BC : zzz

IBT : Berlin : warrior -> settler

33) 2430BC : zzz

IBT : -

34) 2390BC : zzz

IBT : -

35) 2350BC : adjust lux

IBT : -

36) 2310BC : zzz

IBT : Berlin : settler -> settler
Leipzig : worker -> rax

37) 2270BC : zzz

IBT : IW comes in -> alphabet
we have iron S of Berlin

38) 2230BC : zzz

IBT : Tokugawa appears and offers Mysticism for IW. Itake Alphabet, The Wheel and all his gold (34) instead
he is up myst and masonry

39) 2190BC : found Hamburg -> warrior

IBT : -

40) 2150BC : zzz

Hm, not very satisfied with my set. It will take a long time to get the core up and running with all this jungle and mountains. The AIs are very far away as it seems. In the West there is incense in the East we have some dyes.

A pic and the save.

Nice job.

Couple (more) questions:

Are we doing RCP?
Do we have a 4 turner in Berlin?
Who's red-Toku?-If so, we have Monty as well.
Do we want to move the pink dot SW so its on the coast.
Shouldn't we hook up the spcies so we can reduce lux tax?
Do we really need a barracks this early?

We'll need workers-lots and lots and lots of workers. :whip:

Nice job.

Couple (more) questions:

Are we doing RCP?
Do we have a 4 turner in Berlin?
Who's red-Toku?-If so, we have Monty as well.
Do we want to move the pink dot SW so its on the coast.
Shouldn't we hook up the spcies so we can reduce lux tax?
Do we really need a barracks this early?

We'll need workers-lots and lots and lots of workers. :whip:
Does RCP work in vanilla? How exactly does a 4 turn SF work? I think I know but I'm not sure. Is it Settler-> Warrior(4 turns)-> Settler?

I'm gonna wait for more feed-back until I start.

All that Jungle I am missing the Industrious trait now.

Oh Yes RCP works for Vanilla. Looks like Mark set us up as RCP-3.

Yes a Four turner is possible out of Berlin.
I think it will work like this.
Size 4: 6spt 5fpt
Size 5: 6spt 5fpt
Size 6: 7spt 5fpt
Size 7: 7spt 5fpt
As long as you get the extra Citizen working a Shield tile on Growth. MM ever turn so that does happen. Someone may correct me if I am wrong here.

I also agree with Empiremaker that the Pink dot on the coast may be better.

Found this (http://civfanatics.com/civ3/strategy/settler_factory.php) to help clear things up.

Here's my take on the situation.

First of all we have a good start, but the RCP has been messed up. If we want to go with RCP (I'm assuming we are) then we need to whip Hamburg (its currently RCP 4, with Leipzig RCP 3 so Hamburg is 2nd ring) to produce a settler and move it 2NE (i've got the right direction this time ;)). I favour moving the pink dot to the coast, its still on the river but will be a huge commerce producer in future, the downside is it won't be able to use all those mountains in the IA. However I'll make up a dotmap which shows how we future cities mean we can still use all those mountain tiles for a few powerhouses.

I'm in favour of our 2nd ring being RCP6.

Notes on the turnset:
A solid start, our settler factory is up and running and on Emperor we should be able to flood the land with settlers. Good work with the trading too, I was a bit worried we'd be behind already but you did very well there.

Roster

Markh - just played
vind2 - UP
tupaclives - On deck
JJJSpider
Empiremaker

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/2980/picture4uo5.jpg

Here's the dotmap I've drawn up, bear in mind its only provisional. Its made on the assumption that we whip-move Hamburg, the white dot represents the whip-move location.

My settling priorities would be (with Hamburg whip-moving for the white dot, so not including it, this is the suggested settling priority for settlers coming out of Berlin)
Pink
Blue
Purple
Green
Red
Tan
Yellow

That then has our core established, there are spots for 2 cities, I believe, at RCP6 past the pink dot who can make use of those mountains later on (when we get into Monarchy).

What are people's thoughts on the Great Library. Given our poor shield start (other than Berlin) I'm tempted to forgo it, maybe even look to capture it, as although its only emperor without the ability to trade very often it could be difficult to stay within touching distance. Although if properly improved, the blue dot could get the shields to have a crack at the GL.
I think we are in agreement that Monarchy is the best government for us.
I haven't looked in enough detail but I think once the workers finish on that BG, Berlin will be able to go warrior-->settler in its 4-turn cycle. Don't hold me to it I haven't run the figures but I think if we run it from size 5 (when this settler finishes) we are on 10spt if that extra mined BG comes along, giving us warrior in turn 1 of the cycle, we then go settler which at 10spt will take 3 turns, we get growth in the turn after worker finishes then settler in 2, growth in 2 then rinse and repeat. Could be good that way so that we get escorts and MP for the settlers, Markh already reported barbs about so they could be on raging...

anyway good luck vind2!

@vind2 : The settler factory in Berlin is running. You need to manage it a bit. IIRC on turn 3 you have to change tiles to reduce the shields, otherwise the settler will complete before Berlin would be about to grow to size 7. The settler should complete like you see in the picture. Berlin would grow to 7 next IBT if the settler would not complete. Berlin should only build settlers, no other units. There is much land to settle, so it will run for a long time.

Keep an eye on the lux. When the settler is built you can reduce lux, but when growing you need to higher it again.

Spices can be hooked up now. My priority was to improve the tiles for Berlin to get the SF up and running. BTW we need more workers. :)

I built a rax in Leipzig as this town should be building units only and I do not like regulars. We need escort for the settlers and the variant could get us into war any time. Luckily Russia and Japan are quite far away, so we have not an immediate pressure, but better to be prepared.

The barbs I got were popped from a hut. It was far away, so I tried it. Apart from that I did not see any barbs.

I would have put another city 3SW of Hamburg, but I think tupac's dotmap is better than mine.:goodjob:

Regarding the Great Lib I am not sure whether we should try it. I am not a big fan of it on emperor. We will be at war anyhow and after taking 1 or 2 cities usually the AI begs for peace and often offers techs. If we really hurt them they give almost everything for peace. I would concentrate on building up the core and a good army. Then go and whack some AI.:hammer: If we get a leader and we can build the Great Lib this would be an option, but I think I would not try to build it brick by brick. These shields could be invested in a better way. Seeing the map we will have a huge empire and if the techpace will not be too fast we could do ok.

IBT- zzz

turn1- Move settler towards pink dot. See someone dark green (Aztecs?)

IBT- See an american scout

Turn2- Found Konigsburg

IBT- America initiates diplo.

Turn3- zzz

IBT- zzz

Turn4- I think i got the settler factory right :)

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k11/Vind2/pic_2.jpg

IBT-http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k11/Vind2/pic_4.jpg
We are now at war with the Russians.

Turn5- Spices to be roaded.

IBT- Little russian scout in our lands

Turn 6- Barracks and warrior

IBT- Lepzig has disease. :(

Turn 7- Found Franfurt finish road to spices (adjust lux)

IBT- Nothing

Turn 8- Hamburg builds warrrior Another Settler from Berlin.

IBT- zzz

Turn 9- Move settler towards blue dot.

IBT- Japs and Americans building Oracle

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k11/Vind2/pic_9.jpg

Turn 10- Move settler. Roading second silk.

IBT- Our warrior sees a Russian one moving towards Konigsburg. Still far away though.

Turn 11- ZZz

IBT- Russia warrior attacks ours we win and promotes vet.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k11/Vind2/pic_7.jpg

Turn 12- Fortify Warrior. Found Munich. Road Iron.

IBT- 2 more Russia warriors headed towards us

Turn 13- New settler.

IBT- Warriors move onto mountians. (Stay there) We see indians.

Turn 14- zzz

IBT- Russians are building the GL. trade with india.

Turn 15- ZZZ

IBT- zzz

Turn 16- Leapzig, Konigsburg produce Archer. Settler. Found Heidelburg. Pillage infierior Russian raods.

IBT- Zzz

Turn 17- Move our warrior towards russian city.

IBT- zzz

Turn 18- Move warrior, i see a russian archer.

IBT- Archer Attacks, warrior wins 3/4

Turn 19- zzz move our warrior to pillage Ivory. See 2 Russian warriors.

IBT- Russian Warrior kills ours. :(

Turn 20- Build a settler, Found Nuremburg.


Summary- We've met the Indians, Americans, Russians, Japs and Aztecs. Aztecs didn't feel like taking so no trading w/ them. Did some trading with others when possible. I got the settler factory right. Russia demanded contacts, I said 'no'. We are now at war with the Russians. :scan: I might have mixed up something up in one or to turns. Wasn't sure what a Whip-move was so I left it alone. We are building our troops.
An Oportunity.
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k11/Vind2/pic_10.jpg

Just the world
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k11/Vind2/pic_11.jpg

Note- Some Pictures aren't from the same turn they were posted.

Here's the save.
135800

Ok looks like a good set, I might be able to start tonight but I have bar course from 4 till 8pm so I probably won't have time to finish it.
A whip-move is when you have a city in the wrong location, so when it grows to size 2, and has 10 shields in the box, you can whip for 1 pop. This drops the size down to 1 and if you freeze growth then in the interturn it will try and build the settler but you get the message no growth so delay, zoom or abandon. You pick abandon and you get a settler. The only downside of this is that the whip unhappiness transfers to the nearest city. Are we on warrior-->settler 4 turn cycle or just settler?

consider this a got-it

OK first of all we are running 20% lux tax when we can run at 0%, make sure you check things like that, thats 20% of our income being wasted for I- don't-know-how-long.
Next, why are we researching Map Making? We seem to have a lot of beakers invested into somethign the AI always goes for, thus probably no trade options. We have no need of galleys in the short term and it neglects research toward maths for catapults (vital in AW situations, which ours could be) and toward Monarchy so we can get out of despo? Did it automatically go to Map Making and you just left it, or did you actually choose Map Making? If the former why didn't you change it? If the latter why did you choose it, I see no benefit of it.
Third we should not have connected iron yet. We have most of our cities on 2-3 spt so swords take 10-15 turns. If we'd let warriors build instead (in 4-5 turns) we could then upgrade them, plus we can only build spears for MP now. This is bad.
I'm not sure why we are working the settler factory as we are, there is no need to work 2 unimproved tiles instead of the mined and roaded BG. The shield difference will not make the settler complete earlier and it adds more commerce. At this stage of the game Micro-Managing is not difficult as there so few cities, just by Micro-managing the cities the time for Map Making drops by 2 turns with no change to shield production, food production or the science slider and thats after i've whipped the settler for moving Hamburg thus losign 2 citizens.

note this post is not to critisize, but rather so that we are thinking on the same wavelength and to prompt disussion.
Does anyone have any suggestions about those dyes?
I'll do a fuller assesment when I start my turns...

The Dyes are really surounded by jungle and not very close. Which means a lot of Worker turns just to get it hooked up. Overall Not worried about them at all.
It looks like there is Some Incense outside of Nuermberg. I could be Wrong the picture a little blurry in that area. If there is I like it more then the dyes

However, I do love AI denial.
So Poping down a settler in that area might be an idea but defending it will be very difficult. No Cats will be able to get there with out improvements. I more inclined to let the AI have it and take later. Who knows they may have improved the area by then.

Yeouch, thats horrible terrain. :vomit:

:blush: I guess I still have alot to learn. :) I was going for map making so AI would want to trade maps more and talk more. there are alot of new stradgies for me to learn, and I'm fairly inexpirianced with MMing.. Hopefully by the end of this SG I wioll have learned enough to tackle Demi_god

Hmmm, I hadn't thought of that (ai's wanting to trade maps) thats actually quite clever. That's the great thing about SG's you get exposed to new ideas and new ways of thinking. Thats thinking outside the square, I'll leave research on Map Making but speed it up (as we can reduce the lux slider with the war happiness).
MM can seem daunting at first but its really just a case of assessing the tiles available and doing some short maths. whenever your turnset comes around try mm cities at the start of your turn (although some will already be fully mm'ed) and at the end of your turn. I do it every turn but thats too much for a lot of people so try doing it at the start and end of your turnset, particularly at this stage when there are so few cities.

I'm sorry, but I'm having large techincal difficulties with Civ 3 that will take a while to sort out. :sad: So, I'm forced to drop out.

Good Luck!

:( I'm sorry to hear that.

So our roster looks like this...
markh
vind2 Just played
tupaclives Up
JJJSpider On deck

I've made most of my pre-turn comments already.
Lux to 0, MM a little, science to 80 Map Making in 11 at +2gpt
Whip the settler in Hamburg, switch Konigsberg to rax (building swords with no rax??)
Let me preface my turns by saying that all the unconnected cities that stay on warrior production are doing so because we desperately need garrisons and while they remain unconnected they can still produce warriors (as opposed to the cheapest beign 20 shields)

IBT - 2 russian warriors move toward our fortified vet archer. Abandon Hamburg

Turn 1 - Move settler to the white dot, lux goes back to 10 while Berlin is at size 6. Munich needs a clown (it got the whip unhappiness)

IBT - russians move past our archer, a reg spear shows up.

Turn 2 - Konigsberg: rax --> sword, refound Hamburg

IBT - zzz

Turn 3 - Berlin: Settler --> Settler (re MM so that Hamburg can use them mined BG) Lux goes back to 0. Found Cologne. Kill a russian warrior with an archer (1-0).

IBT - zzz

Turn 4 - Nuremburg: Warrior --> warrior. Our reg archer kills a reg spear (2-0)

IBT - Persia offers Contact with France for 30gp, I renogotiate but they have nothing else but 5 gold and are on par with us for techs, so I say sure luv we'll have contact with Joanie. The Russians restart the GL.

Turn 5 - Heidleburg: Warrior --> Warrior. Lux needs to go to 10 again. Kill a russian warrior with a reg sword and promote to vet (3-0).

IBT - zzz

Turn 6 - Frankfurt: Warrior --> Warrior, Map Making has dropped to 1 turn, so I can cut science back to 10 (+21gpt). I think several civs may have just got it...

IBT - France shows up offering 10gp for Map Making, I say no but renogotiate, so that our WM goes for their TM + 54gp + Map Making (to buy their WM would cost our WM + 74gp (all our cash) + 11gpt so I say no.

Turn 7 - Start research on Polytheism at 80% science (due in 11). Berlin: Settler --> Settler. Lux goes back to 0.

IBT - we lose a reg archer (on a mountain) to a russian vet archer (3-1).

Turn 8 - Leipzig: Sword --> Sword. Kill the archer with a sword (4-1) but he's redlined so i cover him with full health vet archer. Found Hannover (to claim dyes): warrior

IBT - the vet archer succesfully defends against a reg horseman (5-1).

Turn 9 - Nuremburg: Warrior --> Worker. Move the sword built last turn onto our iron source, to cover our redlined sword and the wounded vet archer. Lux has to go back to 10

IBT - Paris completes the Oracle. a russian warrior pair ignores our iron and moves next to the 1 warrior defended Konigsberg unfortunately for them...

Turn 10: Konigsberg: Sword --> Sword, Munich: Worker --> Warrior, Heidleberg: Warrior --> Worker. Hamburg: rax --> spear.
Kill the two russian warriors (7-1)

IBT - Gandhi asks our scouting warrior to leave. I take this opportunity to buy maths for 132gp + World Map. Gandhi is also up Polytheism (too expensive), Philo (not needed yet) and HBR (no horses) so I choose maths.

Turn 11 - Berlin: Settler --> Settler
Lux tax goes back to 0, Poly in 7 at +2gpt.

IBT - a russian horse shows up.

Turn 12 - Our vet archer retreats a Russian horse.

IBT - zzz

Turn 13 - Found Bremen (to claim incense) --> warrior

IBT - zzz

Turn 14 - Nurmeburg: worker --> worker, retreat the same russian horse with a sword this time (the archer went home to heal as it was yellowlined n the horse was on a mountain)

IBT - zzz

Turn 15 - Berlin: Settler --> Settler, lux to 0, Heidleberg: worker --> worker
Finally kill that pesky horse (8-1) and our sword goes elite. Poly in 1 now so science can go back to 50% (+9gpt still in 1 turn)

IBT - zzz

Turn 16 - poly comes in, we have some choices with regard our tech, HBR in 4 but no horses (as yet), philo is useless, CoL or lit are option maybe... Construction, Currency and Monarchy are the big ones as I see it. at 80% science we can have Monarchy in 27, construction in 23 or currency in 18. I decide to go with currency for the markets (we will have 3 luxs before too long so markets will be great) and that the tile penalty is hurting us too bad right now and if possible id rather wait for peace before revolting. Currency it is. due in 18 at +3gpt
Leipzig: sword --> sword, Frankfurt: warrior --> worker
Found Stuttgart on top of horses and currency drops to 16.

IBT - zzz

Turn 17 - lux back to 10, got a group of 4 swords assembled on our iron, we could maybe do a bit of damage with them... maybe not, we'll see.

IBT - zzz

Turn 18 - Konigsberg: Sword --> Sword, Hannover: warrior --> warrior (has 3 mp so 1 is sent on go-to to Konigsberg which has 1).

IBT - zzz

Turn 19 - Berlin: settler --> settler, Nuremburg: worker --> cat (although it cant get to the core at this point due to jungle). Settler heads north, we have 5 swords assembled... I send them off, they can be recalled by the next leader if desired, the plan is just to see if there isnt an outlying city or something of russias we can burn to speed peace negotiations ;)

IBT - zzz

Turn 20: Frankfurt: worker --> rax, Hamburg: spear --> sword, Munich: Warrior --> rax, Heidleberg: worker --> cat

Post turn

Currency in 12, remember to change the lux tax every time berlin grows or builds a settler, i'd suggest monarchy or construction after currency but HBR or philo (both 4-turn research easily) might be options as well. Hopefully russia will talk soon as I suspect we might be able to get techs for peace. haven't seen much of russia lately though... With the berlin settler factory, becasue nearby cities want tiles berlin needs to have its tiles chosen whenever it grows or builds a settler, it wants to work the mountain but keep it on grasslands, the two cows and the BG provide enough shields for the 4-turn factory.
There are a few units on go-to, this was for my benefit so if you want you can cancel their movement but their targets are what I believe to be the correct positions for them so you might want to just leave them be.

Anyway good luck JJJ, here's a pic of our empire

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/550/picture75mc8.jpg

and the save

All right I got it!
Time to Crush Fatty Catty.
and Expand Expand Expand.

I'm sure I'm going to get the FP message soon. Is there a spot we want that to go yet? Or do we save it up for a Leader when we get one. After an Army of Course.
Should Be able to Play Tomorrow Sometime.

Edit:
Also do I have to keep the given German city names or are we allowed call them what we want?

At the moment I'd rather wait for the FP rather than rush straight for it, particuarly as the FP acts as a second palace in vanilla. As for the names feel free to name new cities as you desire, don't rename cities already founded though, it gets too confusing if people do that.

Pre-turn:
MM A little manage to shave a turn off Currency
A Wake Warrior in Nuremberg to do a little Exploring out southwest.

IBT:ZZZ

Turn 1 (950BC):
Lux up 10

IBT: Russia wants to talk.
I get HBR and Philo for 15gp along with the PT.

Turn 2 (900BC):
Loose War Happiness Berlin Riots.
Lux up to 20%
Sci Down 10%
Establish Bonn

IBT:ZZZ

Turn 3 (875BC):
Bremen, Cologne Warrior -> Warrior
Hanover Warrior -> Worker

IBT:
Aztec Wants to Talk: Trade TM
Renegotiate get Lit, TM and 25 GP for Poly
Persian Ask My Troops To Leave.
Renegotiate Lit for TM and 5GP

Turn 4 (850BC):
Berlin Settler-> Settler
Lux down 10
Kongsberg and Leipzig Sword-> Sword

IBT:

Turn 5 (825BC):
Establish Salzburg

IBT: Japan Ask to Move Troops
Unable to make any good trades

Turn 6 (800BC):
Leipzig gets Diseased
Sturagart Warrior > Warrior

IBT: Notice France and Japan at War

Turn 7 (775BC):
Lux up to 20

IBT:

Turn 8 (750):
Berlin Settler -> Settler
Lux to 0 Dyes Also hooked up this turn.

IBT:

Turn 9 (725BC):
Establish Dortmund
Frankfurt Riots. Missed that one on Growth Gets a Geek. Worker have road next turn

IBT:

Turn 10 (700BC):
Munich Barracks -> Sword
Hamburg Sword -> Sword
Aztec Moves Archer Next to Bremen. Demanded to Leave It Complies. I have 2 Swords and a Cat. All ready to go.
Sci down to 50 still in 2.
Readjust Frankfurt now that it has a road.

IBT:

Turn 11 (675BC):
Aztec Demand to Leave or declare he gets booted.

IBT:

Turn 12 (650BC):
Currency in Monarchy in 15
Berlin Settler-> Settler
Leipzig and Kongsberg Swords -. Horsemen
Stugart Warrior -> Worker
HeildsBurg Cat -> Cat
Establish Mid-Jungle (can you guess where)

IBT: America Ask me to Leave:
Nothing I want to Trade and not a fair price on our Monopoly of Currency
Japan asks me to Leave: Renegotiate Trade Poly for TM and 18gp. Last civ without it.

Turn 13 (630BC):
Get Incense hook up and then Realize that those cites aren’t hooked to the Capital.

IBT: India Starts the Pyramids

Turn 14 (610BC):
Demand Aztec Archer to Leave he will comply

IBT: Wonder Cascade:
Japan Pyramid
India GLB
Aztec Great Wall

Turn 15 (590BC):
ZZZ

IBT: France Hanging Gardens

Turn16 (570BC):
ZZZ

IBT: America Wants to Talk trade TM
Renegotiate Trade Currency for TM 28 GP and COL (currency is starting to make it rounds around the world.)

Turn 17 (550BC):
Kosinberg and Hamburg Complete Horse and Sword, Both Start on Markets

IBT:
Russia Demands us to Leave: Won’t Trade
America Demands we leave as well. Nothing left to trade
France demands our TM and 25. Walk off a Short Peer. Likewise wont trade anything either.

Turn 18(530BC):
ZZZ

IBT: India ask us to leave: Won’t Trade
America Kicks us out.

Turn 19 (510BC):
Establish Brandenburg and Portsmith

IBT: We get Kick out of India

Turn 20 (490BC):
Move a Few Troops
Worker Working
One Settler Moving West


Berlin is still working the 4 turn Settler Factory. Only MM on Growth off the mountain to the Grass land. No need to change the Lux off zero with the Dyes hook up and soon Incense will be there as well.
We have a lot of Warriors for MP duty. A few still being made here and there. If the city was hook up it either started a worker or Cat after a warrior.
Explored the South West we have a nice little Peninsula Down there to expand nicely in to. It is Very Dry. It has some horses the only known resource.

We are Strong to Everyone. And I think India and the GLB is next Target. As such I moved a few Troops over there.

Also I did not establish any embassies. I figure that was against the variant but was not specifically stated as such.

Good Luck Markh

End Turn Scrren Shot
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/4554/tup05endnk0.jpg
136028

Nice set of turns :) We got the pennisual to ourselves

Looks like a good set, a good find with the peninsula as well. Its clearly a 60% water Pangea we have ourselves, so with that in mind, looking to build the FP in Hamburg, and rush the palace somewhere else with a leader at a later stage (as was done in Tupac03) with a high RCP (say 8 or 9). Thats one option, the alternative would be to rush the FP somewhere more central in the map with a leader once that Jungle starts clearing.

Anyone else have any thoughts? I'd also favour a revolt to Monarchy as soon as it comes in.

Looks good. Yes to Monarchy right after it comes in. Regarding the FP I have to check the save. From the picture I do not see a nice location.

I will not be able to play today or tomorrow, so if vind2 has time to play on these two days I would like to swap. I will be able to play on Sunday again.

OK so I'm up? only 10 turns now? I think I can play tomorrow although my turn will be consumed by anarchy.

Excuse the next sentence: Oh that's hax!

Now then, why I said that: you can put units in the territory of the AI (when at peace) in order to bring up 'diplomacy' whenever you want it.

Now then, why I said that: you can put units in the territory of the AI (when at peace) in order to bring up 'diplomacy' whenever you want it.

It only works if you leave a Trooper near the border. I only did it with our Scouting Warriors and now they are making there way Home. So Contact with Perisa, America, France, Aztec, And Japan is now when they come calling because the scouts have moved away from them.

Inda and Russia are next door. So I manage we could do it that way with them.

Sorry due to unforeseen delays I couldn't play today.

No worries vind, unless you feel you could get to it tomorrow, then I'm happy ot just wait for Markh, of course if you think you could get it tomorrow then by all means go right ahead and we'll just swap you two for this round.

Tribute's comments have got me thinking and I'm inclined to agree. I'm going to rule that from now on (i no i was guilty of it as well) no trading can be conducted if the 'diplomacy' was them asking you to leave.

I got it. Will play later today.

JJJSpider : I need the 490BC save. You attached your starting save (950BC).;)

OOPS! Sorry about that.

136271

Thanks. Will play this evening.

Turn 0 490BC : research up 10%. monarchy in 4 at -2gpt

IBT : Heidelburg : cat -> worker
Bonn : warrior -> worker
Mid-Jungle : warrior -> worker

Turn 1 470BC : not much

IBT : Cologne : worker -> barracks
Bremen : worker -> catpult
India begins work on colossus

Turn 2 450BC : still not much

IBT : Berlin : settler -> settler
Nuremberg : worker -> barracks

Turn 3 430BC : nothing

IBT : monarchy comes in -> construction
revolt : 3 turns of anarchy

Turn 4 410Bc : found New Berlin

IBT : nothing

Turn 5 390BC : nothing

IBT : nothing

Turn 6 370BC : nothing

IBT : we become a monarchy
India lands a spear and settler on the peninsula

Turn 7 350BC : found New Leipzig

IBT : Munich : swordsman -> swordsman
Stuttgart : worker -> catapult
Salzburg : worker -> worker

Turn 8 330BC : nothing

IBT : Heidelburg : worker -> library

Turn 9 310BC : nothing

IBT : nothing

Turn 10 290BC : nothing

HOw could we finish stuff in anarchy?

... we didn't?

I'm confused, what do you mean?

When did we have anarchy for becoming a monarchy? :confused:

Looking at the log.
IBT Turn 3 Monarchy comes in we revolt.
Nothing is built during those 3 turns and nothing is mentioned until turn 7 when something is being built.
My Question is how did you know it was 3 turns of anarchy? I never know how long when we revolt until it over. I sure it is in Civassist somewhere I just don’t know where to look.

It happened once during my set but all in all unlikely to happen.
If a Civ makes a demand and they are still friendly after well tell them to take a hike. Are we allowed to negotiate then?

I think our roster looks like this now:
markh Just played
vind2 UP
tupaclives On deck
JJJSpider

OK well we had come out of Anarchy when stuff was built (we had become a monarchy by then), that answers your first question.
As for how many turns of anarchy, press F1 during the anarchy (right after you order the revolution would make the most sense) and your advisor will say something like 'people rioting... take about 4 turns/3 turns/6 turns to get everything back under control' obviously it depends on the number of turns that it will take as to what it actually says.
And although I'll rule that you can't make a deal if they've just told you to leave, if they have made a demand of you (we naturally refuse) and there isn't a war then you can make a deal.

I guess it takes longer in C3C.. I'll play today or tomorrow :)

IBT- Zzz

Turn 1- Berlin Settler-> Settler
Hannover Catapult-> Barracks
Move troops towards india.
Lower lux

IBT- Japs boot us.

Turn 2- Dortmund warrrior -> rax

IBT- Zzz

Turn 3- Troops moving west

IBT- France and Japs seem to be at war.

Turn 4- Finish construction. Get Mono as our tech.
Bonn- Worker-> Catapult
MidJungle Worker-> Archer
Found McHamburger

IBT- Zzz

Turn 5- Berlin Settler-> Settler
Munich Sword-> Sword

IBT- See an American settler. French finish colossus

Turn 6- New Berlin Worker-> Harbor
New Leapzig Worker-> barracks
Konigsburg Marketplace-> Harbor

IBT- Trade maps w/ japs See them attack a french city.

Turn 7- Salzburg Worker-> Barracks

IBT Japs attack again

Turn 8- Zzz

IBT- Zzz

Turn 9- Hiedelburg Libray- Sword
Found New Hamburg
Berlin Settler-> Settler

IBT- America moves into our territory :mad:

Turn 10- Tell americans to leave.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k11/Vind2/pic_25.jpg

We have a nice stack near india.

The Save:
136443

lurkers comment:
Turn 10- Tell americans to leave.what sort of silent game are you actually playing with constantly entering enemy territory to get them to boot you to trade. Now you even tell them to leave :confused:

We are also defiant, and we can't enter enemy terratory to initiate diplo. :)

lurkers comment:
what sort of silent game are you actually playing with constantly entering enemy territory to get them to boot you to trade. Now you even tell them to leave :confused:

iv outlawed any trade resulting from being told or ordered to leave any enemy territory and you must demand that they leave whenever enemy units come within striking range of one of our cities (provided they are in our territory) and no trade can be conducted when we do so.

So JJJSpider is next ?

I thought Tupaclives was up.

Yeah he is up.

:bump: Tupac You're up. don't know if your ealier post was a 'got it'

Really sorry about the delay but I'll have to ask for a skip, things in RL are just really hectic atm and things aren't so good at home with my mum and dad, sorry about the wait. Hopefully I'll be able to play in the next round.

Ok, Hope things work out well for you Tupac.
I will grab it then. I should be able to get to it Tonight or Tomorrow.

Do I start the War with India now or should we wait a few more turns? I am afraid if we wait much longer we will be facing the WE. I hoping to Blitz and raze a few towns for a quick peace before I see them. Opinions?

Sounds good. Go for it.

Pre-turn:
Looks Good

IBT:ZZZ

Turn 1 (50BC):
America Leave or War, it chooses to take a Hike.
Several Persian Settlers Move closer to us.
Declare on India.

IBT: Aztec wants to Talk but are behind in Tech and Wants Mono for the Republic I decline. Nothing else to be gained.

Turn 2 (30BC):
Knoisberg Harbor -> Library
Attack Calcutta Cats> Horse Redlined and retreats
2 Swords Kill Yellowed Spearmen one promotes Loose Sword on Archer but is redlined. (2-1)

IBT:

Turn 3 (10BC):
Calcutta Cat> Relined War & Archer
2 Swords kill them (4-1) Calcutta Razed.
Sword Kill conscript War Promotes (5-1)

IBT: Russia Comes calling for our Maps. I decline however I do get this.
Engineering for Spices, Incense, 105gp

Turn 4 (10AD):
SCI Set To Feudalism in 25 turns
I Notice Karachi, has A WE.
Move Some Troops. Ping some with Cats no attacks.

IBT:

Turn 5 (30AD):
Handover Worker-> Library
Troops Moves
Establish KrautJung between Hanover and Dortmund Two Russia Settlers in the Area.

IBT:
WE Attacks Sword, get Pinged by Cats, Sword takes off One and he retreats.
Persian Settles near were Calcutta was and establishes a city.
Calcutta Established on the south Peninsula

Turn 6 (50AD):
Ask Russia to leave or War, They take a walk.
Reg Sword Kills Red Warrior Promotes Vet (6-1)
Horse Kills Spearmen in Dracca and it is razed

IBT:

Turn 7 (70AD):
Leipzig and Frankfurt Markets -> Library
Attack American Settler pair in the Peninsula
Loose Sword to spear redlined (6-2) We are at War with America.

IBT: Archer Attack Sword looses (7-2)
WE Attacks Sword Looses (8-2)
Aztec Building Sun TZU

Turn 8 (90AD):
Ping a couple of Warriors. vSword kills one. (9-2)
eSword Kills Another (10-2)
A damaged Warrior can attack Stuttgart with Cats and One Warrior Defending.

IBT: He Chooses to Leave rather then attack. His Loss.

Turn 9 (110AD):
Berlin Settler - > Settler
Ping a India Settler Kill red-Spear (10-2)
2 Sword Kill 2 Warriors (12-2)
Establish Richland
Loose Horse on American Settler Pair (12-3)

IBT: French Building Leo’s

Turn 10 (130AD):
Ask Russia to leave or Declared. We are at WAR!
Abandoned KrautJung
Kill American Settler Finally (13-3)
Change Dortmund to Spear

End Turn Screens:
East Front:
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/5994/eastforntxq5.jpg

West Front:
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/2802/westfrontvr3.jpg

136857

Edit: Clarification of the attack of America Settler.

Declare War on America. Settler pair in the Peninsula

I could be reading this wrong, but i sincerely hope you didn't call them up and declare war...

How are the persians there? Are they at war w/ india? We're now at war w/ 3 civs lets not get Japan against us too.

@ Vind
Well, I razed Calcutta. The Persian having Three Settler Pairs in the Area Just settled there a Turn or two Later.

As for the Americans I just attacked the Open Settler Pair with a Sword. Instant declaraion of War.

I didn't think it was against the Variant to Contact for the sole purpose of War? I might be wrong in thinking this. If it is I am sorry because this was how war was started with India. I did it this way in order to avoid any ROP issues.

However, it was not done like this with Amercia. It was an Attack on their unit in neutral land.

Yes it is against the variant to call someone up with the purpose of making war. It is illegal to call someone up fullstop, with the exception of giving a boot order when enemy forces are within striking range of one of your cities. RoP problems do not exist, as part of the defiant variant RoP's (as well as MA's, Embargoes, MPP's) are expressly forbidden.

Has your trouble calmed down, tupac ? Can you play or am I up again ?

Another question; If someone comes to you with an MPP or MA proposal can you just say no then trade?

I won't be right to paly until next week at the earliest,

@vind2 - i don't see why not. But remember that we arnt allowed any MPP's, RoP's, MA's or embargoes.

I won't be right to paly until next week at the earliest,

Sorry to hear that. I will take it for tomorrow. I have to play my turns in another SG first.

I cannot play today, so if vind2 or jjj can take it it would be ok for me.

can't play until monday :(

Since I just played I will let someone else grab it before me. I'm in no rush to play anyways.

Sorry for the delay. I will play within the next 5 - 6 hours.

So, finally I got it done.

Turn 0 : 130AD : looks a little tricky at the Russian border. Nothing much I could do.
higher research by 10% to get feud in 7 at -16gpt

IBT : we lose Dortmund to Russia
two swordsmen defeat a WE and an elite Indian sword
Persian units enter our territory

Heidelburg : sword -> rax
Nuremberg : sword -> sword

Turn 1 : 150AD : kill a Russian archer settler combo, promoting our sword elite and giving us 2 new slaves
ask Xerxes to leave our territory, he agrees

IBT : another Persian settler Immortal combo enters our territory
Cologne : horseman -> horseman
Brandenburg : sword -> cat

Turn 2 : 170AD : boot order to Xerxes and he declares war
kill a Russian spear in Dortmund
kill a Russian horseman at Brandenburg, promoting our sword to vet status
elite sword kills Indian sword
retake Dortmund killing the remaining horseman with an archer

IBT : lose an elite sword to a WE
lose a sword to a Russian longbow
lose Dortmund, this time it is burnt to the ground
Konigsberg : sword -> sword
Portsmith : rax -> sword

Turn 3 : 190AD : found Dortmund in the SW
elite sword kills WE
sword kills Persian archer settler combo, promotes elite and another 2 slaves

IBT : Berlin : settler -> settler
Munich : sword -> sword
Stuttgart : cat -> cat
Bonn : cat -> cat
Mid Jungle : archer -> worker
Mc Hamburger : worker -> archer

Turn 4 : 210AD : horseman dies on attack on immortal
sword kills immortal, promotes elite and gives us 2 new slaves
sword kills Indian warrior and promotes elite
esword kills Indian archer
esword retreats Russian horseman

IBT : damn, I forgot to move 3 workers away and they are taken by a Russian archer
Heidelburg : rax -> sword
Hamburg : lib -> horseman

Turn 5 : 230AD : sword kills Indian sword
esword kills Indian longbow
lose a sword on an Indian spear settler combo
horseman kills Russian archer
esword kills Indian warrior and razes Calcutta
esword kille Indian warrior

IBT : Feudalism comes in -> chivalry
Konigsberg : sword -> sword
Nuremberg : sword -> sword
New Berin : worker -> harbor
New Leipzig : rax -> pike
France starts Sistine's

Turn 6 : 250AD : nothing much

IBT : lose two swords against Russian longbows
Leipzig : lib -> sword
Frankfurt : lib -> horseman
Salzburg : rax -> pike

Turn 7 : 260AD : esword kills Indian settler spear combo
sword kills Russian warrior
horseman kills Russian spear

IBT : India asks for an audience and asks for peace. I want chivalry and 71 gold (all he has) and he accepts
An Indian settler spear combo enter our territory. A French one does the same

Turn 8 : 270AD : request Gandhi and Joan to remove their troops

IBT : Berlin : settler -> settler
Richland : worker -> worker

Turn 9 : 280AD : request Joan to remove her troops or declare and she removes her troops
sword kills Russian horseman and promotes to vet status
capture a Russian acher settler combo

IBT : sword defends against Russian longbow and promotes elite
the first Russian knight appears
Munich : sword -> sword
Hannover : sword -> sword
Xerxes starts Sun Tzu

Turn 10 : 290AD : found New Konigsberg
sword kills Russian horseman

Nice job, I might grab it today and play :)

Looks like a very well played set of turns Markh. All is well in Tupactown as well so I should be able to play this round.

It could get a little nasty with Russia. We need to take a town from her to get her into peace talks. Our cities are not quite that powerful to build knights, so I mainly set them to continue building swords. At the moment we need quantity more than quality. Konigsberg is the only city that can build knights fast enough IIRC.

Ok i guess tupac can grab it then seeing as I couldn't play until later this week.

Ok I got it

Pre-Flight

Our military looks pretty good as it stands, I think once the peninsula is settled we should basicly abort expansion and start beefing up our cities and infrastructure (if possible).
We are at war with 3 civs, but we should be able to handle them no worries.
We are topping the score and power charts.
However we are only 4th in Mfg Goods and 5th in GNP. This suggests to me that all is not rosy.

MM Leipzig so that Berlin can continue 4-turn settler factory.
Everything else looks about as good as its going to get
Our biggest problem is a far-too-high unit support.

IBT - Russian and American knights make an appearance in our lands

Turn 1 - Catapult and then kill 2 American knights (2-0) and upgrade a vet horse to a knight. I work a few things out and find that at size 6 a city only needs 1 mp to stay happy. I start trimming warriors. Somehow manage to lose a vet warrior to a reg longbow (2-1).

IBT - lose a spear and a sword on our iron to russian longbow and knight, they take two workers. bugger (2-3)
Lucky for us America comes calling

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/725/picture1la5.jpg

Decide we want to cut a few of these wars so I take peace for 56gp + 4gpt (world map would need us to pay money and it was plain impossible for us to get a tech for peace)

Turn 2 - Kill a russian settler pair and a knight (4-3) and get two new russian slaves. I then kill a russian longbow with a horse and get our workers he back (he goes elite as well) (5-3). This leaves him exposed but I'm hoping if he's attacked he'll have the good sense to run away.
We have to mini cat-n-sword stacks, one of them heads toward the russian front.

IBT - however my luck proves true to form and the horse dies. Oh well, at least we got our workers back... (5-4)

Turn 3 - kill 3 russian longbows (8-4) and cover our swords as best I can.
It looks like russia will try and unload some guys near the undefended New Berlin. So i send an elite sword that way.

IBT - lose a 2hp elite sword to a 2hp reg lb (8-5). Russia unloads a horse by new berlin. Persia cruises along with a spear.

Tur 4 - kill the russian horse with the elite sword but no leader (9-5).

IBT - lose a sword to a russian knight (9-6)

Turn 5 - Kill the persian spear (10-6). Kill a russian horse-settler pair (11-6) and get two more slaves. Kill 2 russian longbows (13-6). Found New Frankfurt.

IBT - lose a sword to a russian longbow (13-7) looks like Russia is planning to land knights in our east soon.

Turn 6 - kill a russian longbow (14-7) and a spear and get a promotion (15-7). Send our eastern cat-sword stack toward Bactra.

IBT - zzz

Turn 7 - kill a russian longbow with an elite but no leader (16-7). Kill a russian spear with a vet sword and he goes elite (17-7).

IBT - zzz

Turn 8 - Our cats at Bactra are 100% ineffective. Our cats in the west are only marginally better inflicting just 3hp of damage all up. Our swords are much better however kill two russian knights without loss (19-7). At Bactra we kill 2 spears and 2 swords for no loss (23-7) and take Bactra. No resistance so set it to worker.
Give france a boot order and they comply. Likewise do India.

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/7382/picture2nu0.jpg

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/8664/picture3fc2.jpg

IBT - Persia comes asking for peace. :D looks like we're down to 1 front.

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/6376/picture4kt6.jpg

In the end Persia gives us Invention + 9gp for peace. Nice. ;)

Or not... we lose the War Happiness that was keeping size 6 cities content. Bugger, Berlin, Nuremberg and Konigsberg all riot. Lux has to go to 10% to counter that which means income drops to +6gpt

Turn 9 - Science goes to 0, Bactra is set to wealth and gets a scientist. Gunpowder will come in only 4 turns slower by using a scientist then at max research with surplus cash. Income is up t0 +37gpt. Kill a russian longbow (24-7).

IBT - Finally get some luck on the defence and kill a russian knight on defence (25-7).

Turn 10 - We have enough settlers now to fill the peninsula so Berlin goes on to 2-turn worker factory. Kill a russian knight (26-7).
Thats about it really.

I've set a few cities to workers or cats that were previously on swords or pikes and ive sold the barracks. These were 1spt cities and waiting 30 turns to build a sword or pike does not justify spending the gpt to make them vets. The raxes in those places had to go. The western defences are solid. Konigsberg and our iron is untakeable (at present). If we can get the other sword-cat stack over from Bactra to our western-jungle areas then the whole front can become pretty much untakeable. We only have to focus on the Russian front so lets make it strong. We need to strengthen our economy. Markets, ducts etc are urgent. granaries after that in infra priorities. Coastal cities need harbors too. Then libs, they are last in the list of our 'try and build' infra. Temples are out, as are colls, courthouses might be good too but if we can get a FP then they become less important. If we get a leader I'd suggest rushing either Sun Tzu's (get rid of our rax costs which are probably our highest maintenance costs) or the FP. An army can come if we get a leader after those two have been rushed. Maybe after Leo's if that becomes an option. Not sure about placement for the FP but somewhere in that area north of our peninsula would be good. I think in this case an early FP rather than an optimally placed one will be of most benefit to us.
I've been a bit slack with checking build orders, there are some which can probably afford to be changed.
Also there is an indian settler pair that was dropped off, then when we built a city it got trapped. I've been demanding he leaves every turn and he has but i suspect that Gandhi won't take too kindly to it for ever. Remember, only have to boot if they are within striking distance of a city.

Good luck vind2!

Wow! That was a quick Turn set.

Great Job! Got to love that deal from Persia.

Q' Why the priority on the Granaries?
I'm just trying to understand the shield cost and up keep for some faster growth.

Obviously grans wouldnt be for all cities, just some, same as courthouses and harbors. Why pay the shield and upkeep cost? Because faster growth will mean more tiles used which in turns mean more commerce, more shileds and as cities get to size 7 and up they will knock 2 more gpt off our unit costs.

Nice turnset :D Glad to see you've got everything sorted out. I'll play asap :)

I'm going to be busy for the following days, I need a skipp.

OK I got it and Played!!

Pre-turn
MM Mange to squeeze out couple more Gold
Shorten to a 1 turn Sword in Nuremburg

IBT:

Turn 1 (400AD):
Nuremberg -> Market
Not sure of the Rules on Galleys within Striking Distance But I demand Aztec to leave Complies
Tell India to leave or War he Chooses to Leave
Establish Busker in the South
eSword Kills LB (1-0)

IBT:
Japan Building SC

Turn 2 (410AD):
Kongsberg Knight -> Knight
Berlin on Settler For Last Spot on the Tip
Told Aztec (galley) and India (settler Pair) to Leave they Comply

IBT:

Turn 3 (420AD):
Brandenburg gets Diseased
Hamburg Worker -> Aqueduct
India Told to Leave or War (LorD) - Left.
eSword on Redlined Knight (2-0)

IBT:

Turn 4 (430AD):
India LorD - Left

IBT:
Knight Attacks Fort Knight on Mount. (3-0)

Turn 5 (440AD):
India LorD – Left
eSword Kills LB (4-0)
eSword kills LB (5-0)
Retreat Yellow knight
Sword Shadowing Russian Galley

IBT:

Turn 6 (450AD):
Establish Burdi On India Escape Point
India LorD – Left but to the Other side of the Peninsula Grr!

IBT:
Aztec Establish Teayo On the tip.

Turn 7 (460AD):
India LorD –Left
Berlin Settler -> Market
eSword Kills Redlined LB (6-0)
vSword Kills LB (7-0)
vKnight Kills LB (8-0)

IBT:
Knights attacks Loose Sword and Knight On Mount (8-2)
Kill LB vs Sword (9-2)

Turn 8 (470AD):
Kongsberg Knight - Knight
India LorD -Left
eSword Kills LB (10-2)

IBT:
France Building Copernicus

Turn 9 (480AD):
India LorD - Left

IBT:

Turn 10 (490AD):
India LorD – Left
2 vSwords Die Attacking Knights (10-4)
vKnight Kills Red Knight (11-4)
vKnight kills Knight Promotes (12-4)
vSword kills LB (13-4)

Russia kept coming from several directions. Making it Difficult to Mount an Offensive so it became more like leader fishing with no results.
Kept the India Cats over on that front because I was afraid with all the Leave or Declares. I didn’t want to Leave us completely defenseless on that side.
I thought Nuremburg could use the Market before an Aqueduct feel free to change.

Russian Front
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/4352/russol3.jpg

137963

As vind2 asked for a skip this puts me up, I guess.:crazyeye:

I played 5 turns so far and just got a leader. I stopped to discuss with the team what to do with him. Army or FP ? If we want the FP, where do we want it ?
Just for your information we are at war with Russia, France, America and Japan at the moment.

Interesting.
I think if Sun Tzu is still not built. I think I probably go with that or the FP.
An Army is nice but I think we will pop another Leader hopefully.

Ouch thats a lot of enemies..., i guess we could end up playing another AWE ay Markh ;).

Hmm, a leader. We had the same problem back in Tupac02, what to do with him? Army, Wonder, or FP (except then it was an actual palace)? If the opportunity to build Sun Tzu's is there take it. If not then definately FP. Where do we want it? I'm not sure without having time to examine the save carefully. My only thoughts are to place it somewhere to the west of Berlin, maybe further north nearer the top of the peninsula (bremen maybe?) so that when we expand into some of that cleared jungle later its very productive.

My choices Wonder -> FP -> Army

Go Markh!

Ouch thats a lot of enemies..., i guess we could end up playing another AWE ay Markh ;).

Yupp, looks like that. We definitely need to hurt somebody seriously soon. These oscillating wars are not good. There is no space left to expand, so the AIs will build much more military now and it will get very difficult to stand it. Our position in the middle of the continent does not make it easier.

Sun Tzu has been built last turn or the turn before by Joanie.:cry: Leo's is also gone. So these are not an option. FP it will be. I would appreciate if somebody could have a look, too where to place it. Will continue in a few hours.

Ok, here it is.

Turn 0 : looks good, hit enter

IBT : some Russian knights suicide in the mountains, we lose one sword
France wants some gold and territory map, we decline and we are at war with Joanie

Leipzig : sword -> sword
Heidelburg : sword -> sword
Nuremberg : market -> knight
Busker : worker -> cat

Turn 1 : 500AD : boot order to Gandhi
esword kills Russian spear at Konigsberg
eknight kills Russian knight
eknight kills Russian spear at Vladivostok
esword kills Russian knight
sword kills Russian longbow

IBT : nothing

Stuttgart : pike -> lib
New Berlin : harbor -> rax

Turn 2 : 510AD : boot order to Gandhi
knight kills spear and we take Vladivostok, netting us two slaves

IBT : France allies America against us
Salzburg : pikeman -> lib
Potsmith : sword -> worker
Orleans completes Sun Tzu

Turn 3 : 520AD : boot order to Gandhi
esword kills knight at Rostov
lose 3 swords on the attack on Rostov

IBT : lose a sword, one sword retreats a Russian knight
Konigsberg : knight -> knight
Mid Jungle : worker -> worker

Turn 4 : 530AD : boot order to Gandhi
sword attacks wounded knight at Rostov and loses

IBT : Marseilles completes Leo's
Chittagong completes : The Great Lighthouse

Turn 5 : 540AD : boot order to Gandhi
boot order to Japan and he declares war on us
eknight kills Japanese archer and gets us a leader

IBT : a knight at Vladivostok kills a Russian longbow and knight on defense
Munich : market -> longbow

Turn 6 : 550AD : boot order to Gandhi
rush FP in Bremen, looks like the best city currently

IBT: the first American knights appear in the West
Leipzig : sword -> sword
Frankfurt : sword -> sword
Heidelburg : sword -> sword
Cologne : sword -> sword
Bremen : FP -> rax
Bonn : cat -> cat
Portsmith : worker -> worker
New Hamburg : cat -> rax

Turn 7 : 560AD : boot order to Gandhi
just moving units

IBT : Nuremberg : knight -> knight

Turn 8 : 570AD : boot order to Gandhi
sword retreats Japanese horseman
eknight kills Russian spearman

IBT : lose one sword in Bactra, two American knights retreat on the second sword
knight kills Japanese archer on defense
Berlin : market -> settler
Portsmith : worker -> sword
New Berlin : rax -> pike
New Leipzig : cat -> rax

Delhi completes Sistine's
Kiev complete Copernicu's

Turn 9 : 580AD : boot order to Gandhi
sword kills Japanese archer
sword kills Japanese archer
eknight kills Russian spear at Riga
sword kills Russian spear and Riga is ours

IBT : lose a knight on defense
lose a sword and with his death Bactra
Gunpowder comes in -> chemistry

We have 2 salpeter ressources in our territory, but unconnected

Konigsberg : knight -> knight
Hannover : pike -> sword
Dortmund : cat -> rax

Miami completes Magellan's

Turn 10 : 590AD : boot order to Gandhi
esword kills Russian knight
knight kills Russian knight and promotes elite
knight loses to Russian knight
eknight kills Japanese archer
esword loses to Russian pike
eknight kills Russian pike

Hopefully Russia dials up soon. It will difficult to fight in all directions. I tried to get Rostov, but was a little unlucky.

Looks like another well played set in difficult circumstances. Vind2 should be up next so we'll wait the full 72 before skipping unless he says otherwise. I haven't got time to examine the save but I think that we definately have to hope Russia wants a chat pretty bloody soon. I think we also need to try and get more cities than just nuremburg building knights. If we avoid Education (i don't know if we've got it alreay) then I would not be averse to a Great Library slingshot if its doable. If its not then don't worry we'll find a way to do what needs to be done regardless but I'm going to say no if it is a viable option. I think we need to try and get a knight army soon if we get another leader. Although we are short on knights if we slap a knight army in a city its safe from attack until tanks.

We have not researched education. We even do not have theology. We went the lower path and I set research to chemistry. We have some salpeter sources, so we should speed up to military tradition. Who has built the GL ? Was the GL-slingshot within the rules ? Maybe I mix up. :crazyeye:

BTW I really would not like to see cossacks, so we somehow have to hurt Cathy. Even if we make peace soon I do not think that peace will last very long.

I know India has the GLB not sure of the city name. But when I went to check for it once it was still in the FOG.

BTW happy anniversary of the Faked Death of Tupac.

We have not researched education. We even do not have theology. We went the lower path and I set research to chemistry. We have some salpeter sources, so we should speed up to military tradition. Who has built the GL ? Was the GL-slingshot within the rules ? Maybe I mix up. :crazyeye:
I have to apologise here, thank you Markh! Of course the GL-slingshot is against the rules! :cringe: I completely forgot we are defiant and therefore every city captures must burn.

BTW I really would not like to see cossacks, so we somehow have to hurt Cathy. Even if we make peace soon I do not think that peace will last very long.


I agree, although Cossacks aren't that much nastier than regular cavalry, however if we haven't got the chance to build any real infra by the time the AI reaches cavalry we could be in serious trouble. At least we'll get nationalism straight away when we reach the Industrial Age.

I thought we Could keep Cities.
We all ready Kept Bactra from the Persia.
I just went back and re read the rules it does not say we can't keep a city
So the GLB is doable.

Edit:
Actually that line of destroying cites is crossed out.

Damn, I forgot about the city-burn-rule. The next player has to abandon Riga and Vladivostok. They did no harm as they are corrupt anyway and we have not built anything in it. Sorry. I am beginning to lose track on the rules in this game.:crazyeye:

Ack, went back and read the rules, we can keep cities, that part of defiant has been removed :cringe: yes GLB-slingshot is doable. And we don't need to abandon cities.

This is embarrasing, I can't even keep track of the rules in my own game :crazyeye:

Oh well its sorted now :lol:

Ok looks I'll pick up the save then. I won't be able to play for about 24 hours though so if vind2 posts that he's picked it up before then, then he can go ahead and play. If not

roster

Markh - just played
vind2 - skipped
tupaclives - UP
JJJ Spider - on deck

Pre-turn

I can't figure out what Berlin's settler is intended for so Berlin goes to knights everything else looks pretty good. Lux can go to 0%
Hit enter

IBT - 4 American knights show up on our west, they decide to pick off a vet sword (0-1). A host of Japanese archers + a longbow and samuari as well as two french knights make an appearance at our north. Russian knights show up at Riga,
Things look bad.

Turn 1 - this could be a disaster, our crap-apults fail to even scratch the surface of the american knights and we could be in for some big losses in the interturn there, an elite knight kills a japenese archer (1-1) (part of a stack of 2, don't want to expose valuable knights) and wins but no leader. No other sensible attacks possible. Give india the boot order and they comply.
Things look bad.

IBT - lose 2 swords and kill 1 american knight (2-3), kill 1 japanese archer (he redlined a fortified full health elite knight...) (3-3). More frogs, japs, yanks and ruskies show up. I'll repeat.
Things look bad.

Turn 2 - Kill 5 american knights for no loss (8-3). Do what I can with our limited cats and kill a french knight, a jap spear and a french spear (with a pike!) (11-3).
Numbers are thin for us everywhere. We have spare cash so the knight builds in konigsberg and berlin are rushed.
There's still plenty of nasties who i wouldn't have a hope of killing... apprehensive going into this interturn.
Things look bad.

IBT - Lose a sword to an american knight, lose and elite sword to a french knight (11-5) the japs leave... i have no idea why... A huge russian force shows up at riga (about 7 knights, its a goner) as well as a French Army! (3 archers)

Turn 3 - Berlin builds a knight... and doesnt have a barracks. I'm furious at myself for missing that. Konigsberg also builds a knight, swords and other small fry finish here and there.

I'm staring at this mess and its not good. I don't know how bad it was in Markh's turns but its bloody terrible now. We don't have enough forces to hold the line, at least not for long. Brandenburg, Vladivistok, Riga, maybe Hannover are all doomed in the next few turns unless something drastic happens. You want to know how bad things are? We have been at war most of the game, haven't stopped building mil virtualy everywhere and... F3 says we are weak compared to france. Thats just the tip of the iceberg too, we are waaay to overstretched. We expanded too hard.

I'll see what I can do.

I start by disbanding our russian workers at riga, why? Because there is 0% chance of their survival and I want to deny russia two workers.
Vladivistok has 1 sword defending it and is up against 3 russian knights and a few french swords. 0% chance of survival so it is abandoned. The sword heads to brandenburg. I'm throwing all our eggs into 1 basket there hoping we can break the back of the enemy forces.
Things look bad

IBT - Japan dials us up!!!!!!!

In my excitement it seems the screenshot i took was of me typing this report on Internet explorer. I must have been too eagre to come here and write it down I took an incorrect screenshot. Apologies, it won't happen again.

I say yes thanks! The most i can get from them though is 22gp and a territory map. Oh well its 1 enemy down. We aren't safe though. France is the big one.
Lose a pike and kill a french knight (12-6). The russians and french are all coming for brandenburg and hannover. Can we defend it? Probably not.

Turn 4 - bombard and kill an american knigth with an esword but no leader. Kill a french knight with a vet knight (14-6). Flawlessly kill a french sword with an eknight but no leader (a leader, and thus an army, would guarantee security to whatever city he was in). Take a deep breath and hope for the best.
Things look vbad.

IBT - The french march straight past brandenburg... they have taken the bait of the undefended hannover, just as the russians have. Aha!

Turn 5 - walls are finished in brandenburg and hannover. Lets see if this can make a difference. Kill a french sword (15-6) and get a bunch of cats to the two salients of brandenburg and hannover.
Things look bad and it is about to get ugly.

IBT - Or maybe not, now with walls the French and Russians decide that they'd rather not tackle either city after all. They both head further south toward our iron source and the city of konigsberg (defended by just 2 warriors). We do lose a vet knight at hannover however as an elite russian knight thinks that he should stay (15-7).

Turn 6 - A brilliant piece of luck with mming, thanks to growthrichland (supposed to be reichland?) can ditch the worked irrigiated desert without losing a single uncorrupted commerce or unwasted shield and the scientist created drops research by 1turn. Nice.
Kill a russian longbow with an esword and get a leader! Vnice
Richtoffen immediately forms an army. Filling it will be the hard part. It will be a knight army however. I do manage to scrape together 3 knigths though. It was costly but hopefully will be worth it, jsut a shame this isnt conquests or we'd be set now. The army has a vet knight, a reg knight and an elite knight* in it. kill 2 french swords with an eknight (don't get a second leader) and a sword (1/4) (18-7). Kill an american archer and knight (20-7) and then our army deals the finishing blow to a redlined french sword (21-7) obviously we don't start HE though, the 200 shields would be much better served with 3 knights. Our next leader should rush the HE unless there is a better wonder available.
Things don't look so bad anymore. Hit enter.

IBT - nothing bad happens at all. A change, no new nasties show up either. I may be able to keep this under wraps.

Turn 7 - bombard all i can, then decide we have to take a few risks. Flawlessly kill a russian knight on a mountain (was bombarded down to 2hp) with a sword. (22-7). Then decide to risk our knight army against France's archer army... and are victorious losing 2 hp (25-7).

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1561/picture27yk7.jpg

also kill a russian lb with an esword but no leader (26-7) kill 2 french swords with elite units but no leaders. A sword goes to mid jungle to help defend it from the french knight but no movement points left to counterattack. the reg archer counterattacks and knocks off 2 hp before dying but also promotes the knight. (26-8) Prepare to lose a sword but we should be otherwise solid, hopefully mid-jungle will hold.

IBT - Russia finally talks!

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/9927/picture28mm6.jpg

Result! Not only that but if we throw in just 50gp and a world map cathy will hand over chemistry. Thats nice. :D
With no russians to kill the sword we don't lose it and the sword at mid-jungle goes 4hp, 3hp, 2hp, 1hp, 1hp, 1hp, 1hp promotion!!! Rock on sword mate :goodjob:

Turn 8 - Research goes to mettalurgy in 18 turns. Kill 2 french swords with swords (28-8) then kill 1 with an eknight and get a second leader!

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/4918/picture29pz4.jpg

60 gold is spent so that konigsberg's knight finishes next turn, then i'll rush the HE. Kill another french sword (at hannover) with a vsword and he becomes an esword (30-8). Our army kills 2 more (32-8) but will now definately have to spend a turn or two healing. Unit costs are killing us so anywhere with unnecessary mp's gets them disbanded. Kill 1 more french sword with a vsword and now our lands are free of foreign filth, if only for a very brief period.

Its getting late here so I will finish the turnset tomorrow. My apologies, it hasn't been the succesful turnset I would've liked. Hopefully tomorrow I'll have a bit more luck when I play the last three turns.

It seems you had a lot of fun.:D and well played. :goodjob: Good luck for tomorrow.

Nice set of turns, I'm ready to step back into the roster.

Turn 8 (cont) - set McHamburger to walls and rush for 24gp.

IBT - first thing that happens is America dials us up

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/5767/picture30ed2.jpg

if i even add 1gp it becomes 'almost' so I decide that, as we have no idea how long till they next call us up, we should just take peace now. So i sign peace with America. Only one opponent now...

As expected French knights head for McHamburger.

Turn 9 - with our western front now secure I take the opportunity to switch a few cities around the FP to markets. If we don't get our economy up and running properly then all the cavalry in the world won't save us. Kill 2 French swords, and a knight (35-8). Rush build the HE in Konigsberg.
Prepare to lose a sword on the counter.

IBT - France dials us up!!!!!!!!!

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7509/picture31nu5.jpg

Yahooo!!!!!!!!!!!!

We sign peace getting 19gp and a world map. The world looks like this.

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/4328/worldmapcg9.png

Turn 10 - youch... we get riots in Berlin because of the lost war hapiness, scroll ahead to prevent any further riots.
Konigsberg completes the Heroic Epic.

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/5358/picture32pu6.jpg

Berlin goes to wealth (upping the lux tax to 10% puts us at deficit), everywhere goes infra, Konigsberg temple (biggest city, the growth that will happen soon will make it unhappy) etc.

I decided to play 11 turns so that we are at a nice even year number (700AD instead of 690AD).


IBT - America comes asking to trade world maps. I renogotiate and have a brainstorm. I really shouldn't be doing this without first consulting the team but I decide that we have to move while the opportunity exists (and people are talking to us!).
I trade America our only source of iron, and our only connected saltpeter (we have another source but it isnt connected) and incense for Mettallurgy Silks, 55gp and a world map.

America: Iron (our only source) + Saltpeter (our only connected source) + Incesne (1 of 3 lots) for Mettallurgy + Silks+ World Map + 55gp.
Research automatically goes to Mil Trad in 30 turns.

Turn 11 - MM all cities and get Mil Trad in 26 turns at + 17gpt, we can run at all cities happy with no specialists at 0% lux tax thanks to the extra luxury. Given that we can hook up our second source of saltpeter and still produce muskets for defence, and just build horses for an eventual upgrade to cavalry when mil trad comes in I consider the trade a sensible one. Hopefully you'll all agree.

Notes for Next Player:

India still has that blasted settler pair in our territory. I've been blockading him in an unoccupied tile for my whole turnset but the workers have finished their jobs there so can't be used to blockade them any more. They aren't at move or declare yet but when we get there we could have another war on our hands. Maybe look at getting a unit in that unoccupied tile so that they either declare or move out of our territory properly.
We desperately need infrastructure. I can't stress that enough, markets, libs, ducts and granaries are so important now. The next player can review my choices of infra for various cities if they wish. there is a settler and pike on go to to reclaim the area of vladivistok (which I was forced to abandon rather than risk losing earlier in the turnset) and the dye source there.
Once Mil trad comes in I think we should cut research off and store cash for cat-cannon upgrades and horse + knight - cavalry upgrades and pike-musket upgrades. We can then use the GL slingshot to get ourselves back on par with these antisocial bastards we're up against.

That strategy is very open to change though, if you think we are better off going for self-research, or think the GL-slingshot too cheesey then we'll just give it a miss.

Also if theres no objections id like vind2 to play the next turnset so that he doesnt miss 2 rounds in a row. This would make the order of play this

tupaclives - just played
vind2
JJJSpider
Markh
vind2
tupaclives
JJJSpider
... continue regular roster.

Thats if thats alrite with everyone else.

Good luck to the next player
here's the save

:clap: Nicely done, tupac. Next round of war will get ugly. They will dial up much later then.

GL slingshot seems to be a good idea. I think this variant is tough enough to allow us to use it.

WOW! Hard fought and we are still kicking, time to reload. I really did not expect to be at peace anytime soon.
I agree with GLB option might be the best way to go.

Good Luck Vind

Alrighty then. I should be able to play soon!

I can probaly get it on the weekend.

I'm sorry guys, but there is just no hope with all the work. I'm going to go lurker for a while :(

Alright we'll skip you then. JJJ - your up.

OK I got! Will get to it later Tonight.

Pre-turn:
Everything looks good.
Move some troops in the Open Spots for the India Settler Pair So he can’t retreat to them.

IBT:
France Building Bach’s

Turn 1 (710AD):
Munich Library -> Courthouse
India Move or Declare! We are at WAR!
eSword Kill Spear and Capture the setter (1-0)

IBT:
Aztec and Russia Building Bach’s

Turn 2 (720AD):
Salzburg Library -> Market
Nuremberg Aqua -> Granary
Hamburg Harbor -> Library
Establish Brunswick By the Russian Dyes

IBT:
WE Attacked Portsmith Loose our Pike (1-1)

Turn 3 (730AD):
Hamburg Granary -> Spear Prebuild for Musket Should have the Second Salt hook up before its completed
Bremen Market -> Granary
eSword Kill red WE (2-1)

IBT:

Turn 4 (740AD):
Outside Portsmith
eSword Kills Red WE (3-1)
vknight Dies vs red WE (3-2) :mad:
Sword Kill Red WE (4-2)
Sword Kills Yellow WE and Promotes (5-2)
Change Berlin from wealth to a Horse

IBT: Aztec Dials up for WM exchange. Unfortunately Nothing can be gained Only Offers WM for our Dyes and ask for everything for Theology. :rolleyes:
Japan and Persian Start Bach’s

Turn 5 (750AD):
MT Jumps from 20 Turns to 15
Knoinsberg Temple -> Musket

IBT:

Turn 6 (760AD):
MT Down to 9 Turns
Boost Sci up 60% in 6 Turns at -17gpt
Change Berlin to Musket with MT so Close
Frankfurt Granary-> Musket
Burdi Harbor -> Aqua
eSword Kill Red WE (6-2) Get A leader Formed an Army :goodjob:
eSword kills Red WE (7-2)
eSword Kills Red WE (8-2) Get a Leader again form 3rd Army :woohoo:
I didn’t see anything worthy or Rushing with a leader. Also I not sure what to fill either Army with Yet I might leave that to the next player after further discussion.

IBT:
Palace expands
Japan wants to trade TM Again Won’t Trade Theology and asked for everything for Republic. :rolleyes:
Loose one of our eSword to WE in the Open (8-3)
Japan moves several troops close to ours towns.

Turn 7 (770AD):
Get Pentagon Message
Nuremberg Granary -> Library
2 vSwords Kill 2 Red WE (10-3) One promotes
eKnight kills red WE (11-3)
Sword Kills Red Spear (12-3) Promotes
Sword Kills Red LB (13-3) Out in the Open with WE Next to him.
Knight Army Kill Red LB (14-3) Next to Karachi Defended by a Spear

IBT:
WE kills Open Sword (14-4)

Turn 8 (780AD):
Sci Down to 50% still in 4 turns at -4GPT
Knight Army Goes looses 2hp On Spears Raze Karachi
Sword Kills Red Spear (15-4) Promotes
LB Kills Red LB (16-4)

IBT:

Turn 9 (790AD):
We have DISCOVERED a new Source of IRON (outside Bremen) :D
Raise Sci to 80% MT in 2 Turns Change Hamburg, Berlin, Knoisberg to Prebuild for Cavs (all Courthouses) -58 GPT currently at 183gp
Dortmund Harbor -> Library
Portsmith Market -> Library
eSword Kills Red WE (17-4)
eSword Kill Red Sword (18-4)

IBT:
Retreat WE on Defense

Turn 10 (800AD):
Lower Sci to 70% still in 1 -42GPT
eKnight Kill Red WE (19-4)

Japan Seems to be Moving Troops Towards Brunswick and Rigi Could be going for Russia.
There are lots of Troops left unmoved for the next player. I did not see any visible enemies on the India Border.

138965

Good stuff JJJ! Looks like a good set of turns, I knew India wouldnt put up with being told to leave for long. Good kill rate too, I'd look to fill the empty army with cavs, and if we can get a force of 10+cavs to go with a cav army we could look to try and get the Great Library (India does have it doesnt it?).
Next leader should rush the pentagon. India isnt that strong I think so I'm confident that we can make gains against them, getting the Great Library would be good but we should aim to do it before India gets into the IA (we don't want to be facing rifles with cavs unless we have plenty of cannon support). Once MT comes in maybe we could switch off research so we have the cash to upgrade knights and cats to cavs and cannons. I'm all in favour of going for the Great Library.

Just had a look at the save and things are better than I thought. Munich will finish the courthouse in the interturn so when MT comes in make sure you scroll ahead to change it to cavalry. I'm more convinced however that if we plan on going for the GLB that we need to move as soon as we have enough cavs. A Cav army would be doubly useful for the defence it will provide. Looking at the way its all laid out, when we have enough troops for the job, I would suggest going past Bactra, ignore Hyderbad to go straight for Delhi. Take and hold Delhi for a turn, get the techs from the GL, then either burn Hyderbad with reinforcements as they arrive or send some troops from the main force to burn Hyderbad.

Looks good.:goodjob:

I will take it for tonight.

0) 800AD : looks good, hit enter

IBT : Russia dials up and wants our world map and 5 gold for her world map, I show her the door
military tradition comes in -> theology
Munich : courthouse -> cav
Nuremberg : lib -> cav
Bremen : garnary -> lib
New Leipzig : market -> lib
France starts Newton's

1) 810AD : just worker actions

IBT : Berlin : cav -> cav
Leipzig : aqueduct -> cav
Konigsberg : cav -> cav
Heidelburg : market -> duct
France starts Smith's

2) 820AD : esword dies on a reg WE
eknight kills the WE

IBT : Hamburg : cav -> cav
Portsmith : lib -> cav
America and Persia start Newton's

3) 830AD : not much to do

IBT : nothing

4) 840AD : not much

IBT : first Indian cav comes into view
Frankfurt : cav -> cav
Russia starts Smith's

5) 850AD : knight army kills spear in Punjab
sword kills Indian spear at Portsmith and promotes elite

IBT : New Konigsburg : granary -> courthouse
Bremen : lib -> duct
New Leipzig : lib -> cav
McHamburger : worker -> cannon
America starts Smith's

6) 860AD : esword kills Indian cav at Portsmith
eknight kills Indian cav at Portsmith
knight army kills another spear at Punjab and the city is ours

IBT : Stuttgart : market -> rax

7) 870AD : esword kills Indian spear at Portsmith

IBT : India dials up. No need for peace. We could not get much, so continue the war
theology comes in -> education
Berlin : cav -> cav
Munich : cav -> cav
Nuremberg : cav -> cav
Russia starts Newton's

8) 880AD : nothing much

IBT : Persia offers TM for TM and I decline
France wants our TM + 4 gold for their TM, no thanks
Konigsberg : cav -> cav
Dortmund : lib -> duct
New Hamburg : lib -> musket

9) 890AD : nothing

IBT : renew the deal with Lincoln : silks for iron and salpeter, but we get 15gpt from him additionally :)
France declares war on us and takes Punjab
Riga flips to Russia
Busker : harbor -> cannon

10) 900AD : retake Punjab

Sounds Good.

I don't see the Save.

I just thought we we going Min Research after MT
6 Turns after we get theolgy seems very quick. I just Hope Education is set at Zero now.

I don't see the save either :(

I have forgotten to attach the save.:blush: I will send it in the evening after I got home from work. Sorry guys.

:eek: Education is not set to 0. The next player has to do it. I totally forgot about the GL slingshot.:blush: I must have been asleep while playing.

Here it is.

Pre-turn

Yikes we are only 3 turns from Education. I turn research off and income goes to +150gpt. Will look to get the GLB this turnset.
Uh huh, didn't notice that we were at war with France when I read your report. Things are not as good as I thought. Why did we go for Punjab? Its a craphole, useless spot far from our lands which does not help us in the slightest with regards to getting the GLB. I honestly wasn't expecting us to be at war EVERY time the game comes round to me...

IBT - a french cav captures Punjab, stuff it, they can have it. Still can't understand what our troops were doing there anyway... baffling. Lose a pike and retreat a knight at Salzburg (0-1)

Turn 1 - Kill 3 French knights (3-1), get our knight army away from Punjab, send a big stack of cats and swords toward Salzburg (Markh, why do we have no catapults on our northern border, you had a whole turn of war with France when you could have done that... France is far stronger than India, we need cats up there waaaay more than on our western border). We need more cash for cannon upgrades. Have to just wait and see how things go.

IBT - lose a sword to a french cav (3-2), a lot of ruskies come into our territory. This could be vbad.

Turn 2 - Kill 2 french knights and cav (6-2) upgrade a pike and 17 cats, switch salzburg to musket due next turn. Send our 2 cav armies and a few cavs toward the Great Library, should arrive sometime near the end of my turnset.

IBT - Lose a longbow, kill a knight in return (7-3). 10 Russian knights and 4 longbows move into the vicinity of Konigsberg. I have no idea what I'm goign to do...

Turn 3 - Well actually I have no choice, they are within striking range, I have to order them to leave. The Russian declare war.
Do what I can... this WILL be ugly. I use the cannons (used to be cats) on our iron mountain to knock 1hp off any knight that could strike konigsberg in the interturn. Kill a french knight (8-3). This is going to be a nasty, nasty interturn.

IBT - We lose a sword and a warrior to french cavs (8-5) but no cities. As expected the cannon fire prevented russian attacks, but I doubt we have sufficient cannons to do the same next turn... India drops off a WE by Burdi.

Turn 4 - Use the cannons to knock a hp off all but 2 knights at konigbserg then kill 3 knights there for no loss (11-5). Kill 3 French cavs as well (14-5). Kill the WE (15-5).

IBT - Lose a musketman at Salzburg, kill a cavalry, (16-6) Cossacks have joined the party at Konigsberg.

Turn 5 - Kill 3 LB's, a WE and a knight (21-6).

IBT - Lose a cav to an indian cav (21-7), France persuades Persia to declare war then kill a french cav on the defence (22-7).

Turn 6 - Kill a longbow (23-7), then kill 2 spears and capture Madras (Wealth). (25-7), this gives us control of the roads so we can reach Delhi a turn earlier. Kill a Russian knight, and 2 French Musketeers (28-7) and pop a leader. Immediately Rush the Pentagon in Munich. Kill 3 more musketeers and a cav gettin 2 promotions (33-7).

IBT - Kill a russian longbow, lose a sword (34-8). Munich completes the Pentagon.

Turn 7 - Go straight for Delhi. 3 wins and hold, hopefully with the army for cover we wont get attacked in the interturn... (37-8), kill 2 french muskets and generate another leader but lose a cav as well (39-9). Make an army and put 2 elite* cavs in it. Abandon Madras.

IBT - lose a sword and a warrior (39-10).

Turn 8 - Kill a last musket and a conscript rifle at Delhi and we capture Dlehi and the Great Library put a 10/12 cav army in there to hopefully cover it for one turn. (41-10) Kill 2 cavalry and 2 musketeers (45-10).
Sit back and hope for the best

IBT - Lose a sword to an indian cav (45-11), no other losses... but France comes asking for peace but insists on us paying 200gp. Our rules say we mustn't pay for peace, so no dice. I wonder how long it will be until we get another opportunity for that though...
and the Great Library kicks in!

We get the following techs: The Republic, Printing Press, Education, Banking, Economics, Astronomy, Navigation, Physics, Magnetism, Theory of Gravity, Nationalism, Medicine and Steam Power.

Turn 9 - We have 2 sources of coal. So I immediately start work on a railnet. 3 workers to a tile, so 2 turns for a rail, make sure you keep the workers in their groups. Switch a few cav builds to rifles. Upgrade 2 muskets to rifles. Time to bring our indian campaginers home. I decide to give them a turn of healing first, but next turn they leave and delhi is abandoned.

IBT - Kill 2 Indian cavalry on defence (47-11).

Turn 10 - Kill 2 french cavs, a russian knight an indian cav, an indian musket and an indian pike (52-11) and raze Hyderbad. Move our indian campaigners homeward. Abandon Delhi.
Some units left to move. I'll hand over the save now.

- Make sure we keep working on rails, the first lot will finish in the interturn,
- hold the fronts, advance when possible.
- Start researching again
- Get banks built
- Go for Industrialization next
- Suggest treating the game like AW from here on in (seeing as how hard it will be to make peace)
- Smith's, Newton's and Bach's are all still up for grabs, I suggest using leaders to rush them in that order.
- Good luck JJJ!

PS - I apologise for not having any pictures in this report, my main computer is having some difficulties so this was done on my dads laptop.

Sorry about the pults. I did not think of them. IIRC they were all fortified, so I forgot to check for them.

France declared war on the last IBT of my set and I mentioned it in my report, so I really had no time to react much. I sent our armies into Indian lands. Punjab I just took as I wanted to go for India and it lowered our units costs and wanted to avoid the other civs to settle there. Otherwise I would have just razed it of course.

OK I got it!
I won't be able to get to right away.
I hope to get it done by Thursday, Friday at the lastest.

I didn't expect to be in the steam age all ready that is one thing I was kind of surprised by.
Do we want to start a prebuild for TOE?
or do we hope for leader luck.

@Markh - no harm done, if i sound angry it was more me being worried because I hadn't paid close enough attention when reading your report, and I didn't realise we were at war with france. next thing I know a big stack of knights is at Salzburg and I'm looking here there and everywhere for some cats to prevent an attack :lol:

@JJJ - Is this your first game at Emperor or above? Just the comment about not expecting steam yet :lol: my most recent SP game (a 140x140 Earth Map with accurate start locations, playing as India) had the Ruskies building Universal Suffrage in 310AD while I was still struggling to get banks built :lol:
You'll need to turn on research again, go full pelt (with smallest surplus) for Industrialization-Electricity-Rep parts, then sci-method.
Don't start a prebuild until the city we want to build it in has factory and coal plant. Don't forget to keep building rails. Railnet first, then we can worry about making big cities fancy with lots more production, get that railnet built!

@Markh - no harm done, if i sound angry it was more me being worried because I hadn't paid close enough attention when reading your report, and I didn't realise we were at war with france. next thing I know a big stack of knights is at Salzburg and I'm looking here there and everywhere for some cats to prevent an attack :lol:

No problem, mate. I do not take it personal and criticism is always welcome. We are on a civilized forum, aren't we.:)
I tend not to mark important things in my reports, so it is for sure difficult for the next one to get everything. I will change that.

No not my First Emp Game.
Fifth ;)
But it sure is my first EMP game with severe limitations. Not being able to trade when you want to keep up with the tech pace has really Widen my eyes on how to play this game a little more.

Pre-turn:
Notice Our Only Source of Coal is very bad spot endanger of being lost with culture expansion of Aztec City. Will try to Drop a City on top of it This turn set. (Strike That I see a 2nd Source.)
Industrialization up to 60% in 23 Turns.
Disband two Warriors that aren’t doing anything for MP Duty on the West side. (I would Regrets this later)
MM For few extra Gold Growth in certain city and shield in other Industrialization down to 22 Turn...

IBT:
Russia Looses a Knight at Konigsberg but 2nd Kills our Warrior (1-1)
Loose a Worker stack to French Cav.

Turn 1 (1010AD):
WOW we are pretty thin in north area.
eCav Kill Red Rus Knight (2-1)
Loose Cav vs French Cav (2-2)
eCav Kill French Cav (3-2)
Cav Kills Fr. Cav (4-2)
Sword* Kill Rus. LB (5-2)
Only Mange to Ping off 2hp off Russian Cossack Stack. Only One can Attack hope he chose to retreat.

IBT:
Russia Kills our Elite* Sword
Persian Immortal appears.

Turn 2 (1020AD):
Loose Another Cav to Red Fr. Cav (5-3)
2nd to the same Red Fr. Cav (5-4)
Finally and eCav kills it but it gets yellowed (6-4)
Take a Chance on Russian Cossack on Mountain Get Lucky (7-4)
Sword kills Rus. LB (8-4)

IBT:
Loose Sword on Defense (8-5)
Kill two Immortal on Defense (10-5)
Aztec Building Newton’s And Sign an Embargo against US.

Turn 3 (1030AD):
Couple Cavs Build come in still Building Cavs and few rifles
Russian and India Both Have Boats on West side Move Some Units Over to Intercept.
Get India Army Home from India to Heal.
Sword Kills Rus LB (11-5)
Loose Sword on Red Cossack (11-6)
Ping More Cossack Stack Just Not Enough to attack but make them retreat.

IBT:
Japan declares war with MA with France

Turn 4 (1040AD):
Ping More Off the Russian Stack with better luck
2 eCav Kill Cossack (13-6)
eKnight Kills Rus LB (14-6)

French seem to be interested in Salzburg
Cav kills Musketeer (15-6)
eCavs Kills Fr. Cav (16-6)
eCav Kills Musketeer (17-7) Leader for Smith’s in Munich
eCav Kills Musketeer (18-7)
Army Kills Musketeer (19-7)

Cav Kills Immortal (20-8)
Sword* Kills Immortal (21-8)

Sea Invasion
Loose Cav on Rus Cav (21-9)
Cav Kills Rus Cav (22-9)
Cav Kills Rus LB (23-9)
Cav Kills India LB (24-9)

IBT:
Loose Army in Salzburg w/Walls to French Cav and only took on 1 HP. (9 hp and Fort)
Loose 2nd Healing Cav in Saltsburg. (24-11)
France completes Newton’s

Turn 5 (1050AD):
Able to Raise Slider to 70% to 14 Turns
Upgrade musket
Cav Kills Fr. Rifle (25-11)
Loose Cav Vs Fr Cav (25-12)
Loose Cav vs Fr Cav (25-13)
Cav Kills Fr. Cav (26-13)

eCav Kills Per Pike (27-13)
Cav Kills Immortal (28-13)

IBT:
Mange to Retreat Back Cossack
Kill India Cav on Defense (29-13)
Loose Sword to Samurai (29-14)

Turn 6 (1060AD):
Getting Thinner and thinner
Kill 3 Rus LB Get A Leader (32-14) I choose it for an Army
Kill Fr. Cav (33-14)
Loose 2 Cavs vs Fr. Cav (33-16) France has the RNG Gods on there side.
Kill Japan Sam and Spear (35-16)
Kill India Cav (36-16)

IBT:
Loose Cav and Warrior on Defense (36-18)

Turn 7 (1070AD):
Kill 2 Fr. Cavs and Musketeer (38-18)
Kill 4 Rus Cossacks (42-18)
Kill India WE (43-18)
Kill 1 Japan Cav (44-18)

IBT:

Turn 8 (1080AD):
Kill 3 Japan Cavs (47-18)
Kill 1 Fr. Cav (48-18)
Ping a bunch of Cossack to Force Retreat
Kill 1 India Cav and 1 Immortal (50-18)

IBT:
Loose One Sword to Japan Cav (50-19)
Japan completes Bach’s
India pillages Our Outskirt Coal source

Turn 9 (1090AD):
Kill 3 Japan Cavs and 3 LB (56-19) get a leader on One another Army
Kill 2 Cossack and1 LB Loose One sword on Cossack (59-20)
Kill 1 Fr. Rifle and 3 Cavs (63-20)
Kill India Cav (64-20)
Loose Sword on Immortal Kill Him with next. (65-20)

IBT:
Loose our supply of Silks from Abe NO CONTACT
Kill India Cav on Defense (66-20)

Turn 10 (1100AD):
Cologne Riots Scroll ahead to prevent more.
Kill 3 Immortals and 1 LB (70-20)
Kill 1 Japan LB (71-20)
Kill 2 Cossack and 1 LB (74-20)
Kill 1 French Cav (75-20)
Kill 1 India Spear (75-20)

French Onslaught had died to a trickle now.
Japan Keeps Switching From Brandenburg to McHambuger whatever one didn’t have the Knight Army
Russian keeps up the assault on Berlin Passing by Konginsberg
French Would Keep shooting the gap between Salzburg and Bonn Trying for Heildburg. But they would attack Salzburg every so often.
India liked my worker stacks around Portsmith
Persia Likes Stuggart

For awhile I didn’t have enough defense to move around Lost a lot of Swords and Warrior covering worker stacks and protecting cities I knew I couldn’t defend against the attack. Just putting in More than the attackers.
I have Rails set up coast to Coast so Defense did get better along the way. Most of the Cannon are on the Iron Mountain.
I left the 2 Cav Army with Movement for next player.
Still having some issues with Pictures I hope to resolve this problem soon.

139347

Nice jobs guys :thumbsup: thats alot of battle :eek:

Looks good JJJ, pity we couldnt rush newtons or bachs but everything looks well done.

I guess I am up again then, but I cannot play before tomorrow or Monday.

Here it is.

0) 1100AD : looks good, hit enter

IBT : we lose a rifle on defense

1) 1110AD : kill some cavs and cossacks and get another leader, use him to rush the military academy

IBT : Japan calls up and we make peace for his territory map

2) 1120AD : kill some French cavs and cossacks and get another leader

IBT : Persia brings in the Aztecs against us
Hm, Japan moves all his units towards Aztec lands

3) 1130AD : kill a few units

IBT : Japan and Aztecs are at war.

4) 1140AD : raze Teayo
move two armies towards Rostov. If this is the only source of Salpeter of Cathy, she cannot build any more cossacks

IBT : lose a sword

5) 1150AD : not much

IBT : Persia, India and Aztecs send quite numbers of units

Industrialization comes in -> electricity

6) 1160AD : another leader, rush universal suffrage
raze Rostov

IBT : nothing important

7) 1170AD : the usual job

IBT : nothing

8) 1180AD : another leader and another army
found New Munich and New Heidelburg

IBT : not much

9) 1190AD : kill some units

IBT : Russia calls, we get sanitation, all her gold (43) and a worker for peace

10) 1200AD : guess what, a leader, but we do not have enough cities to support an army, so I rush a factory in Berlin
another leader, man this is insane, rush a factory in Konigsberg

I left two cav armies with full movement for the next player. I would send them towards Gandhi/Monty.

Looks very nice, especially the peace treaty with russia. Will play tomorrow.

Hmm, the save won't load for me... does anyone else have this problem? If not then its something with my computer and I'll be able to try it on my dad's laptop tomorrow.

I been a way for a few days but otherwise looks good.

I had no Problem down loading the Save. I see lots of French Troops to deal with in our Terr.
Otherwise Looks pretty Good.

The save is all sweet and looks good unfortunately i cant play until sunday at the earliest. If JJJ wants to step in and play, or maybe if things are alrite at his end vind could take a turnset?

If Vind does not grab it before I do.
I will play it on Saturday night.

I'll take it after JJJ spider plays, don't know when night is for him, I should be good to step back into the roster, work has lightened up :)

Pre-turn
Looks Good Use one Army to kill one Fr Rifle (1-0)

IBT:
Japan Building Shakes
Russian Moves Several Stacks of Cossacks through our Terr. Must be at war with someone.

Turn 1 (1210AD):
Berlin and Knoing Factory -> Coal Plant
Russian Move or Declare (left)
Six Fr. Rifles 1 Cav (8-0)
1 Persian Cav (9-0)

IBT: America Starts Shake

Turn 2 (1220AD):
Frankfurt Riots move MP police last turn.
Move Several Sword for MP Duty
Get Leader on India Rifle (10-0) Rush Factory in Hamburg
On Persian Rifle (11-0)

IBT:
America and India Sign an Embargo
USA Moves Troops in our Terr.

Turn 3 (1230AD):
Berlin Riots miss an MP there.
Russian Leave or Declare (left)
America Leave or Declare WAR!!!!! Yeah some War Happiness
2 Am. Cavs and LB (14-0)
1 India Rifle (15-0) Leader Rush Factory in Nuremberg
3 Persian Cavs (18-0)
2 Fr. Rifles (20-0)
2 Aztec Spear Raze auto Razed Cempola (22-0)
Change a few Cities to Settlers (Busker, New Frankfurt)
2 American Spears Capture Bactra

IBT:
France Becomes Commie

Turn 4 (1240AD):
3 Fr. Rifles loose one Elite Cav (25-1)
1 Per. Cav (26-1)
Red Line all Fr. Frigates in the south. Should send them home.

IBT:
Aztec comes crawling in for peace.
I get Terr Map with it.
Embargo between Persian and France ends

Turn 5 (1250AD):
Russia Move or Declare (left)
3 Per. Cavs (29-1)
7 Fr. Rifles (36-1)

IBT: Aztec and Fr. Embargo
Palace Expands

Turn 6 (1255AD):
5 Fr. Rifles (41-1) One Leader rushed Factory in Leipzig
2 Fr. Rifle and LB Capture Punjab (44-1)
1 Am. LB (45-1)

IBT:
France Calls up for Peace Sure get this.
They are at War with Russia and Japan Now.
http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/7301/francepttj4.jpg

Turn 7 (1260AD):
Hurry Library in New Munich and Punjab
1 Per. Cav (46-1)
Establish Bacteria Farms and Kraccen

IBT:
Kill WE on defense (47-1)

Turn 8 (1265AD):
Nothing Much

IBT:

Turn 9 (1270AD):
Russian Move or Declare (WAR)
4 Am LB (51-1)
2 Rus. Cossacks (53-1)

IBT:PT with Persia and America
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3707/periapthb1.jpg
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/5128/usapttm0.jpg

Turn 10 (1275AD):
New Knoings Riots Fast FWD through to prevent other Riots
1 India Musket and LB (55-1)
1 Rus Rifle and LB (57-1)

Lot of Infra Builds: Aqua. Library, Banks, Factory, Univ, as needed and where app.
Time to lay the smack down on Russian now. Killing them off would give us a nice front to work with.

139978

looks like a good turnset, good to see vind is back on deck. I'll take it after vind

I'll try and play today :)

IBT- America moves stack into our territory. WOW alot has changed since I last played

Turn 1- Palace expands
America declares when acked to leave!
Bombard american riflemen
Bombard 3 russian riflemen (all redlineds)
Army defeats russian rifle (1-0)
" " (2-0)
Destroy Riga
Army defeats russian rifle (3-0)
Cav defeats russian spear (4-0)
Army defeats american rifle (5-0)
Army defeats american longbow (6-0)
" " (7-0)
cav defeats american longbow (8-0)
Army defeats russian rifle (9-0)
" " (10-0)
Take Yakutsuk

IBT- Someuntis move into our terrerory

Turn 2- Cannon bombards american rifelman and india longbow
Army defeats American long bow (11-0)
Army defeats indian rifle man (12-0) And losses 8 bars!!!
Army defeats russian rifleman (13-0)
Army defeats russian Spearman (14-0)
Take odessa + 1worker
Cav retreats from russian rifleman (14-0)
Army defeats cossak on montians (15-0)

IBT- Russian cossak attacks cannon stack defended by 1 rifle :blush: Rifle kills it (2/4) (16-0)

Turn 3- Bombard india rifle
army kills russian rifle (17-0)
Move somecannons
Cav defeats india rifle (18-0)

IBT- Russia moves 1 infantry 1 Pike into our territory. Cossak attacks rifleman (19-0)

Turn 4- Cav defeats spearman (20-0)
Raise Novograd+cap worker
raise inferior russian city, found Newrenburg in it's place.
Bombard indian mucket, and american rifle
Army defeats american Rifle (21-0)
Army defeats indian muckset (22-0)
Siege of Moscow
Bombard, 3 hits
Army defeats Conscript rifle (23-0)
Army defeats 2 rifles (25-0)
Great Cavalry defeats russian rifle (26-0)
:devil: Raise Moscow :devil:
Cav loses to Russian rifle (26-1)
Great Cavalry retreats from rifle. (26-1)
Army defeats rifle (27-1)
Army defeays Pike (28-1)

IBT- Peace w/ india for Democracy, 90 gold and maps

Turn 5- Cossak defeats army (high yello) :mad: (28-2) :mad:
Lower science to 30% (electricty next turn)
cav defeats the freakin cossak (29-2)
cav defeats russian rifle (30-2) It did 16 bars!!!!

IBT- Cossak defeats rifleman (30-3)
French bombard sevstapol

Turn6- Replacable parts in 17
Cav deafeats cossack (31-3)
Army defeats rifle (32-3)
Army defeats rifle (32-3)
Army retreats from rifle (32-3)
Abandon Odessa
Found Dyes
Discover that holding shift down makes everything move fast

IBT- Persians move into our land


Turn 7- Ask persian to leave
Cannons bombard the crap out of russian city
Army defeats rifle man (33-3)
Army defeats rifleman (34-3)
Army defeats spearman (35-3)
Raise Atrakhan
Cav loses to rifle redlines (35-4)
Cav defeats russian rifle (36-4)
Cav defeats russian rifle (37-4)

IBT- Cossak defeats cav (37-5)
Persians leave

Turn 8-
Army defeats Rifle (38-5)
Army defeats Rifle (39-5)
GREEN ARMY LOSES TO COSSAk WTF! (39-6)
Cav defeats cossak (40-6)
Army defeats rifle (41-6)
cav defeats cossak (42-6)
capture Kiev

IBT- ZZZ

Turn 9- Zzz

IBT- cav defeats cossak (43-5)
Cav loses to cossak (43-7)
Russians recapture Kiev

Turn 10- Recapture and raise Kiev
Army defeats 3 american rifle (46-7)
Accidently hit space (>.<)

IBT- Cossack defeats cav (46-8)


Sorry for the mess up. I might have messed up the RCP in russia if we're still doing that. Save and screenie to come

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k11/Vind2/Tupac/Tupac1275_1.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k11/Vind2/Tupac/Tupac1275_2.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k11/Vind2/Tupac/Tupac1275_3.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k11/Vind2/Tupac/Tupac1275_4.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k11/Vind2/Tupac/Tupac1275_5.jpg
140024

Would've been nice to have an interturn but oh well. Things look good and I wouldn't worry about the RCP, once it gets to past the 3rd ring on a standard map I just forget about RCP because its no longer worth it.

Will play this afternoon

Turn 1 (no pre-turn left for me) - Start by pullign back a few things to heal. America is negligible and I suspect Russia is nearly gassed. I decide to make settling the Ivory a priority (we don't have any!).
MM to get us to positive gpt, we have a lot of cities without raxes building cavs... why? Change them to cannons, workers or settlers.
We also have ultra-corrupt towns building raxes... again utterly pointless, workers or settlers from these towns.
Kill 2 cossacks and a rifle (3-0)

IBT - We get palace expansion. During the reassignment of builds I realise that Wall street hasn't been built yet! This will be started immediately!

Turn 2 - Berlin starts Wall Street. Found the Zoo, which nets us 2 ivory. Fire specialists I dont want, actually hire more in others (ultra-corrupt towns). Gathering forces to make a push for the gems. Income is at positive with RP in 12. Kill a Cossack (4-0).

IBT - Japan and Russia sign a trade embargo against us. The trade embargo between Persia and America against us ends.

Turn 3 - Meh nothing really, still waiting for the armies to heal. Kill a cossack (5-0) MM gets Rep parts in 10 at +16gpt.

IBT - zzz

Turn 4 - Kill a rifle, get a leader and rush Wall Street. We can up research because of it (well as of next turn, but might as well get a head start).
Big force at Nuremburg is ready to move out next turn. RP in 8 at -38gpt

IBT - a stack of multiple yank rifles shows up.

Turn 5 - Wall street finishes and we are back to positive cash :D Kill a Russian horse and cossack (7-0). The unit builds after Wall street put us back at -2gpt. RP in 7.

IBT - Ruskies drop off a cossack by portsmith

Turn 6 -kill the cossack (8-0), the siege of Minsk sees a cav die in the killing of 3 rifles (11-1) and Minsk is razed. I decide to rush a few settlers to fill up the lands of russia. Also rush a rax in The Zoo to serve as a forward healing post make sure it is sold once we move forward! get another leader (12-1) and make another army... guess we'll fill it with cavs (all elite*).

I have to pause here for a while. I have muchos real work to do and really need to get it done. Hopefully the rest of the turnset won't be much longer at all.

IBT - The American rifles are now beside bactra. Munich gets what I think is our first hit of pollution and persian starts ToE.

Turn 7 - Start by killing 8 american rifles and generating a leader although we lose a cav (20-2). I decide to save the leader. Increase science. We now have RP due in 4, its possible that Persia will call us up asking for some sort of trade for RP, if that happens we can trade for Sci Method and rush ToE so we can still be first to Hoovers. If the next player thinks different then you can use the leader but with nothing else worth rushing, and an abundance of armies I'd rather aim for ToE.

IBT - zzz

Turn 8 - Kill a cossack (21-2), found Gem Town and New Hannover. Send our cav forces (3 armies, many vet cavs) toward St Petersburg.

IBT - Get another pollution hit, France establishes an embassy with us.

Turn 9 - France is at war with Russia and Japan. Can drop science and still have RP in 2. We lose a cav attacking St Petersburg but capture the city (23-3). I do this so that we can use the territory now in our possesion to attack further this turn. Attack Tblisi with armies and kill 4 rifles (27-3) and raze the city. This double city take has knocked out their saltpeter supplies. They are finished. With the 2 new luxs connected I fire all the specialists we don't want (any left should be kept) and start disbanding MP's. Happiness problems no longer exist.

IBT - Russia refounds 1S of Tblisi, France drops off a rifle alongside Sevastopol. The Trade Embargo between India and Persia ends. They immediately dial us up offering Free Artistry for Coal, ha! Renogotiate and find Free Artistry is worth 20gp to them, nice try. Try and buy Sci Method but nothing will have will buy it from them, if we could dial them up at our leisure we could throw in gpt and probably buy it. Oh well we'll have to hope that someone with Sci Meth will want RP when it comes in next turn.

Turn 10 - Kill 2 rifles and capture sevastopol We can use it to stop other civs settlers trying to claim russian land that is rightfully 'ours'. In the meantime we need to get some settlers there stat. Kill another rifle (30-3) and raze kiev. A lot of our boys are in St. Petersburg (inc. 2 armies) however they can't leave till next turn... if it flips in the interturn Nope don't want to take that risk, abandon it now and there is no cultural encrochment.

I'm going to leave it there, and pass it on now. There are still a few moves to be made but no further gains in this turn. RP is in 1, but science can't be reduced, go for Sci Method next, theres a chance we can get there before the persians complete ToE, or maybe a trade or something, regardless we have to try and get ToE, we have the leader waiting. Good luck markh!


The save

Sounds good. :goodjob: I got it and I will play today or tomorrow.

Fantastic.
Here is to getting TOE :cheers:

Do we have an updated roster we are going to go by after Markh plays.

I don't even remember the old roster :lol:

lets just run with this

tupaclives - just played
Markh - up
JJJ - on deck
Vind

0) 1375AD : looks good. Just some worker moves to finish this turn.

IBT : rp comes in -> scientific method, hopefully someone dials up soon

1) 1380AD : take Smolensk, autoraze Moscow

IBT : nothing

2) 1385AD : take Sverdlovsk and due to a misclick I cannot take Krasnoyarsk this turn

IBT : Russia dials up and we make peace with her for two of her three remaining cities, espionage, free artistry and 4 gold

Russia is now a 1cc on an island

America brings Persia into the war

3) 1390AD : not much

IBT : America, Persia and Aztecs sign an embargo against us

4) 1395AD : boot order to France

IBT : nothing

5) 1400AD : not much

IBT : nothing

6) 1405AD : not much

IBT : some more embargos

7) 1410AD : boot order to Gandhi

IBT : scientific method -> atomic theory

8) 1415AD : rush theory of evolution
boot order to France and we are at war

take Tamuin and get 466 gold, thanks.

IBT : France allies with India against us
France is at war with Japan, didn't know that. How nice !

Berlin completes Theory of Evolution and we get our GA

Take atomic theory and electronics

9) 1420AD : raze Toulouse for 473 gold
raze Delhi
raze Yokohama for 486 gold

IBT : nothing

10) 1425AD : move units to heal and in position to raze 2 more Indian cities

I would focus on France as they have a lot money and they are at war with Japan, too. Razing cities give a good amount of gold. Due to that I started upgrading our cannons. Have fun.

Instead of researching on our own we could start stealing after our GA has ended. At the moment we can do 4 turn research with a good surplus.

Looks real nice.

Nobody has RP yet!
Checked out where the Rubber Placement are. I going to GO send two pillageing Army with cavs to take out both of France.
Japan only has one right on a Border city so when the time comes.:satan:
Aztec Has only one the far side Not much I can do about that with us being at peace.
India has one as well along the Far side as well. Will see how it plays out about for that one.
Persian and Amercia Both have none. :mwaha:
So with that in Mind I going to set up a Good Choke on Western Civs and let them stu for a bit.
France has lots of cash :drool: So I going to hit them hard and raze as I go. I think we can slow the tech pace down as long as we control Frances Rubber we should do rather well. after our GA of Course.
Rushing some settler will be high on the list as well to fill in those gaps and I see a Spot where we can pick up our 6th Lux (fur) soon.

Leader are going to be Army with only 11 turns on Hoover left. No reason to rush it I feel.

Thoughts and comments welcome.
I got it! I will be playing much later tonight.

Good idea!

Good turnset! I'd suggest once we get cities that by size 6 have only 1 uncorrupted shield or commerce we just make specialist farms (less powerful in vanilla but still useful particuarly in monarchy with unit support) so make sure everything down that way gets irrigated if possible. Elsewhere lets really start to focus on getting to premium tile use, irrigating where necessary so that mountain and hills are all used. Agree on razings in France, also agree on knocking out rubber, here's how I'd do it though. Pillaging armies for now but get groups of 3 infantry and sit them on top of the rubber tile once its done, this is so that they can't reconnect the rubber. Ideally, eventually would be able to build fortresses there to help out our infantry. Also think that steals might be a good idea, when the golden age ends lets set research to 0% and use specialist farms. If done as well as it can be these specialist farms would probably get us able to do techs (MA Techs) in about 30 turns, so if we take less popular tech routes that can supplement our steals to actually have us in a tech lead.

Good plan. Leaders should make armies. We have no hurry in getting Hoovers.

Going to need another night on turn five now.
Trying to Optimized all the worker squares has been a real chore.
But a quick update
Got two more Leaders.
Razed two French towns about to Raze a Third.
I will be working on a Wonder city Soon with Newtons and Leo's in it. Is it worth the hassle to keep it? France has a lot of Culture.
No one has RP yet and all France's rubber has been pillaged.

Well the easy way to think if its worth the hassle is think, is the city uncorrupted enough for newton's to make a difference? my guess is probably not. Are there enough upgrades likely to be done (rifles-infantry, cannons-arty) to make half price upgrades worth the hassle of keeping it? Without seeing the save I can't judge but my guess is probably. Whatever decision you make we'll go with.

Pre-turn
Sell off Some Walls and Barracks in Non Forward areas.
Change couple Odd Military Builds to Aqua or settlers
Upgrade 12 rifles to Infantry Move some Inf. To the forward sections
Notice India Ships not sure what they are up too.

IBT:
No attacks:
India ships appear to be headed home.

Turn 1 (1430AD):
Upgrade 6 Cannons
Kill 2 Ind Rifles at Madras and is razed (2-1)
Kill 2 Ind Spear at Bengal and is Razed (4-1)
Kill 3 Am. Rifles and 1 Knight (8-1) Get Leader for Army
Kill 2 Ind Rifles (10-1)
Kill 6 Fr. Rifles (16-1)

IBT: Palace Expands

Turn 2 (1435AD):
Sci down 10% still in 1
Rush 2 Settler Growing next turn
Establish Monkey House In a gap by the The Zoo.
Kill 2 Am. Rifles (18-1)
Loose 3 Cavs vs 2 Fr. Rifle at Pointes but it razed (20-4) Bad RNG :gripe: for 500 Gp

IBT: Palace Expands

Turn 3 (1440AD):
Corp in set to Ref. in 7 to also building a little surplus
Am. Rus, Persia have Ref
Am. Per have steel
IA in Successful in planting spy in Japan, Am, Aztec
Upgrade the last of the Cannons
Establish Lynch Pin and Fuzzy Furs
Kill 4 Am. Rifle (24-4) Get a Leader new Army
Kill 1 Fr. Rifle (25-4)

IBT:
Am. Est Houston to get rubber. And Buffalo close by
Bunch of Embargos

Turn 4 (1445AD):
Kill 4 Ind Rifles (29-4)
Kill 2 Fr. Rifle and LB Razed Malinico (32-4) 550 GP
Kill 3 Am. Rifles Auto razed Houston Loose two cavs (35-6)
Establish No Rubber for you to deny any future settlers.

IBT:

Turn 5 (1450AD):
Kill 3 Fr. Rifles and LB Raze Besancon Loose one cav (39-7)
Loose one eCav on Red Rifle but the 2nd produces a Leader (40-8) :salute:
Kill 2 Per. Cav (42-8)
1 Each India and Fr. Rifles (44-8)
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/102/besanconyh6.jpg

IBT:

Turn 6 (1455AD):
Kill 3 Am. Rifle (47-8) Generate a Leader for another Army
Kill 1 Persian Cav and Fr. LB (49-8)
Establish Inch by Inch

IBT:
India Dials up for some peace I take every thing they have WM, 3X workers, and 109GP

Turn 7 (1460AD):
France and Persia Get RP this Turn
Last of the Rifles are Upgraded this turn
Kill 2 Am. Rifles (51-8)
Kill 1 Persian Settler Pair (52-8)
Kill 2 Per Rifles and Cav Loose one cav Capture Gordium (55-9)

IBT:
Sign Deal with PT with Persia
India and Japan make peace (didn’t know they were at War.) :dunno:
France signs Aztec to WAR with US and Japan. :mischief:
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9973/persiaptkc2.jpg

Turn 8 (1465AD):
Go for Spy Plant all failed. :mad:
Sci down to 40% Ref in 1.
Give India the boot Order
Kill 2 Am. Rifle Raze Buffalo (57-9) Generate Leader
Kill 5 Fr. Rifle and 1 LB and Razed Marsellisis (63-9)
Kill 2 Fr. Rifle Raze Cherbourg (65-9)
Kill 4 Az. Rifle Capture Tactkey (rename is a joke) (69-9)
Kill 1 Az Rifle Capture Tintz (renamed) (70-9)
Established Buzzed
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/61/marseillesvx3.jpg

IBT:
Fr. LB dies on Defense (71-9)

Turn 9 (1470AD):
Refining In Sci Set to Steel in at Huge Loss. We have 2 sources of Oil.
Establish Sheerie, Lions Den, Pine Jungle, Iron Oak
Kill 8 Az. Rifles Fill (stupid) While Pinging away I pillaged my own Square. :blush: (79-9)
Kill 1 Az. Rifle and Pike Raze Tlapanca (80-9)
Kill 1 Fr. LB (81-9)

IBT: France and Japan Make peace
Russia must be a War with Monty They capture his only Rubber Source :goodjob:

Turn 10 (1475AD):
Sci back down Still in 3 Turns with a small gain.
India Given the Boot Order
Establish Brown Cow, Hair of the Dog
Kill 3 Fr. Rifle 1 LB Raze Rouen 1008 GP
Kill 2 Az. Rifles Raze Malinaco

End Turn map:
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/4967/mapgi9.jpg

I know India Rubber Source is unconnected.
Plus Persia and France are the only one who knows RP.
Hoovers is in next turn remember to sell off Coal plants we have around.

140415

Am I up next?

I guess I am! I'll try to play today or tomorrow :)

Wow, looks like a great set of turns JJJ! great work :thumbsup:
i could be getting premature here but I'm guessing we should start think about what sort of victory we want. Russa has a 1tile island I believe so conquest would have to wait until marines (still they aren't that far off). domination would be easier but theres something abotu conquest that appeals to me...

Anyway what are your thoughts?

Russia is not on a 1 tile island as far as I know. Japan and them have a city on that island in the East. I already have sent a galleon to our East coast to ship over some cavs to finish them off after the peace deal has expired in case we want that, so conquest is not that difficult and could be achieved without waiting for marines. Unless there are any 1 tile islands I have not recognized of course. :scan:

My vote would be conquest. That would feel right for this variant. :)

Conquest!!!!

We don't need to talk to them why share anything with them.
Plus they all have declared War on us at some time.

France is pretty much toast with us controlling the rubber. They also don't have any salt so they are fighting with LB and Rifles.

AS for the Island it is a Small Island but it is the only one in the whole game. One city Japan the other Russia.
Russia is no longer One city. They captured the Aztec Rubber city towards the end of my set.
SO the Only Nations with Rubber are Japan, Russia, and India.
Japan is the only one connected to it under a city off our border.

:( I'm going to be gone untill thursday, haven't got a chance to play. :rolleyes: Fate seems to want me not toi play :rolleyes: I guess I'll have to be skipped until thursday :sad:

Theres no rush so i'm content to wait

I'll be home to late to play today, so I will tommorrow :)

Well I got through about 2 turns, before I got a phone call. My friend is sick and I'm going to visist him. Anyone can feel free to grab it.

Sorry to hear that, vind2. Tupac, you want it ? I could play on Sunday.

I can't pick it up till late tomorrow after cricket, if you want to take it before then you can.

Sorry for not posting earlier but I'm not going to be able to play till the weekend at the earliest. I am snowed under with school work, exam week is 2 weeks from now and all assignments have to be in before then. I'll be flat out to get it finished if I dedicate all my time so I won't be able to play till friday night or on saturday.

If anyone wants to take it before then go ahead and I'll jump in after them, or we can wait till then. Whatever your all happier with

Tupac, can you play ? I have some time today, so I could play some turns.

I can play this afternoon, but I'll also have time during the week this time. If you want to play now go ahead. If you haven't posted a got-it by 5'oclock my time (about 9 hours) then I'll just pick it up and play.

Ok I guess I've got it. Playing now

Pre-Turn:

Everything looks great! There's no MM worth doing, a few beakers here or there makes no difference to the time for research so I leave everything, with so many builds completing next turn, including Hoovers, I'll re-mm everything then. Just for fun our Mfg. Goods is at 894 (total uncorrupted shields) now, lets see what sort of difference Hoover's makes..

IBT - not a lot, a big stack of Frenchie rifles moves near Tamuin, America asks for peace but can offer almost nothing, so no dice there.

Turn 1 - Even with Hoovers theres no need to re-mm, not even for commerce. The only real change of anything comes at Konigsberg which starts a Cath, I'm going to see if I can get it up to 80spt so it can crank a cav a turn. Berlin also starts working on armies. Hold up, I just realised we are in a GA! I had realised that in my pre-turn sweep :crazyeye: It even has it written on the screen!
Sell off all the unneeded Coal Plants, saving a fair bit on maintenance.
Mfg. Has increased to 1045megatons so thats 155 extra spt. so it should take about 7 turns for Hoovers to pay back its shield cost.
Start by pinging American rifles on the Indian border, (5-0) then attack in France with cavs and cav armies.
At Avignon our Cav army wins 2 straight but then our conventional cavs decide that retreating is for sissy's and so 3 in a row die promoting the rilfe ot elite, luckily a fourth cav finally finishes the job. At Tamuin after killing 1 rifle our next cav (an elite no less) decides that it would be fun to die attacking a longbowmen, glorious RNG day :rolleyes:. (10-3).
Oh yeah, we burn Avignon and take 1038 gold when we capture it. That rushes a few libraries in corrupt places (for culture).
I have appaling luck from here on in, attempts to clear away enemies (mostly longbows!!!) result in the death of 4 cavs, including 2 elites (18-7).
We also raze Lyons (20-7) yielding 707gp as a result. That rushes markets in some under-devloped, but deserving, towns. Attack Tenotchtitlan and end up 1 attacker short, with the army reduced to just 2hp, that whole group could die in the interturn....

IBT - nope, no attacks even. Not anywhere

Turn 2 - Frankfurt completes its infantry and i set it to cav, in the GA it can crank them in 1 turn.
Science goes to 60% with steel still in 1 (+219gpt). Pull back some troops for healing, move in fresh reserves, move in arty, ping invaders yadda yadda. Risk an attack on Tula with our 3 pillaging infantry and lose 1 infantry but take down the city with the help of a freshly healed cav army.
Raze Tula, get 753gp. I forgot to count how many invaders I killed so I'll just forget about the kill rate. Lose a full health elite cav to a redlined longbow...
Konigsberg is redone for 80spt, so it can start cavs once the current cath finishes. Irrigated a bg so that we keep the bonus shield for the GA (or mobilisation if we ever go down that route).

IBT - Aztecs ask for peace, they have nothing to offer so I tell them to die.
We kill an american ironclad on the defence with 1 of ours and go elite, kill 2 French Longbows with 1 of the 2 surviving pillaging infantry but then lose him after he promotes elite to a rifle.

Turn 3 - Steel comes in, we could do communism in 4 at 60% research but I don't see its value to us. So i set to Combustion in 5 at +32gpt.
Kill 3 defenders and capture Amiens without loss I hold it so that we can attack Edo this same turn. Get 805gp for capturing it. That alone would cover all 4 turns cost of going for combustion in 4. Who knows, we might still get to use our UU! Combustion in 4 at -165gpt.
Thanks to us holding Amiens we line up our arty and open fire on Edo. When all defenders are redlined in go 1 cav and a cav army and Edo is razed, 1281gp is taken! this fighting france is a very profitable business! :lol:
Oh yeah we get a arty as well.
Bombard Grenoble and attack with a cav army, 3 wins means we capture Grenoble and take 1389gp. I hold it because it means our arty can be in position to bombard Paris next turn instead of in 3. I will abandon these sorts of cities once their job is done.
I succesfully plant spies everywhere but France. I also check F7 to see where the wonders are, there is nothing we want in Paris, the only thing we want from France is Sun Tzu's in Orleans.
The attack on Tenotchtitlan fails again due to lack of healthy attackers. Another Cav army should be there next turn tho.

IBT - Russia and Aztecs make peace.

Turn 4 - Almost lose 2 cav armies taking down 2 conscript rifles at Tenotchtitlan! Luckily we lose neither but it was close.
Capture Tenotchtitlan we keep it as a healing point, as our nearest city is someway back.
Move all forces into position to attack Paris next turn.
I abandon Grenoble to prevent a flip.

IBT - zzz

Turn 5 - Start by clearing out the intruders.
Siege of Paris!
After bombing all the units to 1hp we kill 5 rifles and 2 longbows without loss and Capture Paris, getting 1438gp. The capture of Paris allows the movement of troops so that Orleans can be taken next turn, and chartres destroyed this turn.
Actually the attack on Chartres doesnt go to plan, the first defender (4/4 rifle) kills a full health 19/19 cav army. Oh...
And then sure enough we get 3 consecutive cav victories and we raze Chartres and get 1485gp.

Move troops so that the next player can bomb then capture Orleans next turn.

I think I'll pull up here, these five turns have taken me hours.

In fact I would suggest from here on in as it should be straight warring, we could probably switch to 5 turns each.

NOTES FOR NEXT PLAYER (Markh)

Capture Orleans, don't raze it. Sun Tzu's would be nice, the French are nearly toast anyway so holding it shouldnt be a problem, I'd say 2-3 turns tops till france is dead. It could be done in 1 if we are lucky.
Make sure Berlin has its 3 irrigated tiles mined, this will take it over 80spt so it could also go to 1turn-Cavs (3 cities cranking out cavs every turn would be awesome!) or keep it on army duty but 5 turn armies instead of 6. Cities with only 50% corruption or better (ie. less coruption) make sure that if there are mountains in their vicinity they are used, 5shields in GA (4 in regular time) means the loss of 3 shields (for non bonus-grassland in GA, 2 in regular or if a bg) in order to use the mountain is worth it, the extra commerce is nice as well. Obviously you already know this but I'm just trying to look like there's something worthwhile saying here! :lol:

Abandon all French cities that are held (other than Orleans) so that we don't accidently trigger a Domination win.

There are 3 boatloads of Cavs on their way to Russian isle, lets finish off the ruskies. Also, once France is dead lets DoW on Japanese. Aztecs can be picked off at our leisure but I'm just trying to get the 4 cav armies in Tenotchtitlan up to scratch.

Stuttgart has 2 (i think) cav armies in it healing, I suggest we use this as the healing spot for all units if they can reach it in 0 movement. The reason I suggest this is so that offensive troops (and elite cavs) don't get fortified to heal in some random city and they don't get used. This happened to me at the start of the turns and I was wondering where all the elites were. There are probably still a couple I've missed.

I think thats everything so I'll hand it over now.

Good luck Markh!

sounds great.:goodjob:

I got it and Iwill play tomorrow.

I notice that Cathy has a town in the north of Persia

0) 1500AD : looks perfect.

IBT : Aztecs and Japan sign peace

1) 1505AD : boot order to Japan and we are at war
bomb Orleans down to pop 5 and take the city for the loss of one cav

IBT : Combustion -> Mass Production

2) 1510AD : raze new founded Edo
raze Nagasaki
raze Teoti....


IBT : not much

3) 1515AD : raze Matsuyama
raze Sapporo
raze Tours for 1257 gold

IBT : France allies Persia against us :)
our golden age ends

4) 1520AD : uh, I trigger the alliance of Persia and India by attacking a Persian city
damn, Joan must have paid all her gold to Xerxes as we just get 25 gold for razing Rheims
raze Persian Sidon and get 523 gold

Finally I get a leader

raze Madras
raze Chittagong

IBT : nothing

5) 1525AD : raze Nara for the loss of a cav and the French are gone
raze Kyoto

2nd leader

raze Jaipur

I leave several units unmoved for the next player to decide where they should go.

The save and a pic for the lurkers, if there are any. :shifty:

The save and a pic for the lurkers, if there are any. :shifty:

Im here :), and I've got to say...nice job! :thumbsup:

Why arent you expanding as much? :scan:

Good stuff Markh, is France destroyed now?

Once Mass Production comes in, set to MT at full then I'd say turn off research and rush any infra we still want (markets, factories, hosps) in places that NEED them (not jsut 'would be nice') and then lots mobilise and go hammer and tongs.

Just a thought?

@Ansar - the reason we aren't expanding any more is we are going for Conquest and don't want to accidently trigger a domination victory.

Got it Playing Now.
WOW Super job guys looks like it my turn to finish off Japan.

Are we aiming for conquest? or for Domination?

@Ansar - the reason we aren't expanding any more is we are going for Conquest and don't want to accidently trigger a domination victory.
ah, ok. Thanks for the response. BTW, who's next in the death row? :hammer:
Are we aiming for conquest? or for Domination?
...if you read the above posts, you would know the answer... ;) :p

is France destroyed now?

Yes, commander. They are another part of the Tupac tales now.

I do not think it is really necessary to mobilize and to build any more infra. This game will be ending soon. If Vind2 takes a set again I do not expect to get it for another round.:p

Pre-turn
MM Selling off all Barracks and cultured pop Libraries
Drop Sci to 80% Still in 4

IBT:
Loose Worker stack to Jap Cav
Loose exposed Cav to Persian.

Turn 1 (1530AD):
Lower Sci to 70% Still in 3
Moping up some Strays in out terr.
Optimize squares for workers.

IBT: No Attacks Persian Lands a Stack of Setter pair by Orleans

Turn 2 (1535AD):
Raze Osaka
Kill Persian stack and take 6 slaves. Generate MGL
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/7729/osakaac0.jpg

IBT:
No attacks
America Drops off a bunch settlers by Orleans

Turn 3 (1540AD):
Lower Sci 60% still in 1
Auto Raze Houston just establish in IBT
Establish Napa Valley to Gain Wines
Kill 5 Am. Settler pairs, 2 Persian pairs
Raze Satsuma, Tokyo
Capture Hakodate on the island.
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/5796/satsumaej3.jpg
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/895/tokyonl5.jpg

IBT:
Japan and Russia Sign MMP (Aww Gee I was going to declare War anyways.)

Turn 4 (1545AD):
MP in Set to MT in 6 turns
Raze Delhi Get MGL
Worker Railing and troop movement.

IBT: Loose Cav that Razed Delhi
Unhappy Citizens in Knogisberg due to Propaganda (new one on me)

Turn 5 (1550AD):
Captured Kagoshima, Izumo, Shimoneseki, Vladostock.
Railing to capture city.

End Screen:
http://img428.imageshack.us/img428/6044/endturnli1.jpg

Nagoya is prime to be captured this turn bad RPG would not let me get it this turn.
Set up to take a couple of India cites next if desired.
Sorry for not doing the indepth post but I had some family issues that need to be dealth with So I kind of rushed through this.

141449

ah, ok. Thanks for the response. BTW, who's next in the death row? :hammer:

...if you read the above posts, you would know the answer... ;) :p
:D Oops :blush: I see.

Great job JJJ, vind2 if there are no problems I would like you to take the next turnset.

Great :goodjob: I will try for tommorow :D

Got it played, but I don't have the internet at my house. (stupid tree)

Would you be able to give us a summary of the turns and post the save once you get your internet connected.

If thats not an option can you actually let us know? Its immenley frustraing to request something and not even get a response, let alone what was requested.

Vind2 is skipped, I'll try and play tomorrow.

Pre-Turn:
Everything looks great. MM a little for no real result. Switch Konigsberg to courthouse to try and knock off 2 corrupted shields (cav-a-turn if we do that).

Hit enter

IBT - zzz, persians pillage horses at Teno

Turn 1 - Konigsberg now does a cav-a-turn. Cut science back to 80% (still in 4 turns) so now deficit is only -63gpt.
Kill the defenders (2 rifles + 1 spear) at Nagoya and raze the city

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/7516/picture27ok1.jpg

The battle also generated a leader http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/3907/picture26ye7.jpg

I send him to Berlin where he forms an army. I decide to save that army and the one already in Berlin for Panzers (MT is in 4 turns).

Move forces to finish off Japan next turn. Lots and lots of worker moves. Start merging native workers en masse. Can't get research time better but deficit drops to less than -50gpt, and thats without any military losses so far.

Raze Madras

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4188/picture28uh1.jpg

Raze Bombay, capital goes to Bangalore

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/8613/picture29lh9.jpg

Raze Lahore

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9097/picture30cl7.jpg

Raze Teoutihuacan (that makes it 5 cities this turn!)

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/5903/picture31te6.jpg

Forces are in position to attack an Aztec and an Indian city next turn.

IBT - Russia lands a rifle by one of our undefended cities in the old Russian homeland. Sly devils!
And here's something you don't see every day

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3642/picture32hl3.jpg

Turn 2 - Try and fail to replant our spy in persia.

Raze Bangalore, India is down to 1CC.

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/886/picture33zu9.jpg

We kill off Japan.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1241/picture34eg6.jpg

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3816/picture35yp8.jpg

End of turn 2 and I'm at my pic limit.

More to come soon!

Looks nice, SO far.
I doubt I going to get another turn set.
I told you, I had a nice set up to capture alot of cities turn one.

AAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!! A computer error ate the second half of the report!!!

The gist of it though

India destroyed
Aztecs destroyed
Russia reduced to a settler on a boat

Only 4 turns played due to exam block and I have to be studying, so I have no more time.
3 Armies waiting for Panzers
Motorized Transportation next turn
Go Markh! Go!

Reporting for duty. :salute: That is very nice. I did not expect to get another round in this one and now I will be able to drive some panzers around the block.:D

I will see whether I will be able to finish this one today.

Well what should I say. Great work, guys.

Let's see whether I can bring it home in 10.

0) 1570AD finish tupac's set picking off some stray units

IBT : America founds a new town right North of Perisan territory

MT -> Flight
cycle through cities to change all military build to panzers

The first 4 panzers finish to form the first panzer army

1) 1575AD : raze San Francisco
raze Atlanta
raze Moscow and the Russians are gone, and we get another leader
raze Arbela
take Pasargadae as a bridge

IBT : nothing

2) 1580AD : take Persepolis
take Tarsus for the loss of a cav army
raze Susa and the Persians are gone
raze Boston
raze Philadelphia, size 19 defended by just one reg rifle :)

IBT : nothing

3) 1585AD : Chicago falls
New York, too
troops positioning to take the last 3 American cities next turn

IBT : we lose a worker stack, but who cares now ?

4) 1590AD : raze Seattle
raze Washington
raze Miami and game over

This was great fun, guys. It was an honour to play with you. Several times it was quite close, but we did it. [party]

Awesome Markh!

A great win boys, a very difficult variant in theory. Maybe we lucked out, who knows, I had a great time anyway. Being first to RP and then JJJ's great work pillaging the foreign rubber sources did wonders for us. It meant we never had to fight infantry.

It looked dicey at time during the MA but we held out... barely and then we made them pay!
I had a great time playing this game and its great to finish with the win.
If possible Markh could you post a save just before the end-game?

Great job all! :clap:

Nice job on beating up all of the AIs!! :hammer:

If possible Markh could you post a save just before the end-game?

I will post the save before victory when I am back home this evening (in about 10 hours).

Fantastic! Great Job Guys:goodjob:
Thanks again for letting me play. :thanx: It was a lot of fun!
Learned a lot more. I even won my first Deity game at home yesterday.:woohoo:
Hopefully some more Vanilla SG games will pick up. I am always willing to join those.

Here is the save for the final turn.