I've never really conducted much espionage in my games, other than to try and steal military plans. I noticed in one of my games where I had a substantial tech lead going into the space race that many of the other civs were catching up quickly, even though my science level was through the roof. Were my techs being stolen from me? I've never stationed spies within my own borders and I was wondering how that works. Should I be stationing spies in all my cities to prevent technology theft. Are they even stealing tech from me? If anyone has any information on espionage and how you usually use it, it would be helpful. Thanks.

Spies cannot steal techs in Civ IV. They're discussed on 132-133 of the manual (my US plain ol' game). In short, recon and sabotage are their capabilities.
Several AI nations may be friendly enough to be trading techs with each other. This would have them catching up quickly.

In spite of Spies' limited functions compared to previous versions of Civ, I find them extremely useful.

I almost never use spies to steal plans (they can reveal the same information just by running around, and it's always up-to-date) and only occassionally use them for sabotage. My main use for spies is information gathering. Spies can reveal your opponents' troop levels and locations, city screens (including buildings, wonders, and build queues), and current research, among other things.

Information is power, and the info the spies give you can be invaluable in your decision-making, both strategically and tactically.

I rarely build them, altough they are quite useful. Preriquisits are expensive and they come quite late. I'd like to see an earlier, perhaps more limited version in the game.

Spies are almost a must on Space races and sometime diplo vics. Sabotage (strategic) improvements and space parts which are constructed by the AI.

I once won a dilpo vic. sabotaging all food recources of the large city's of my rival(s). I needed just a few more votes for my vic and was at the top of my growth. Sabotaging 3 farms a turn, time after time, give them old workers a hell of a job... :) Almost never got caught. Dropping city's pop. from 22 to 13 resulted in me being voted a Diplo vic. :D

Oh, btw, you need a lot of money. Putting the slider to 0% helps...

I think they are extremely useful. For both info and sabottage (i never steal plans). Sisiutil already said brilliantly why and how info is so god, so ill skip to sabottage:

- 4 Spies can really devastate a civs economy, if you have enough money (800:gold: per turn) and patience (reloading when they fail). After 10 turns sabotaging farms, towns, mines, the civ will be back to stone age.

- Before bombers, they can blow resource improvements in times of war. And even after bomber, in out-of-range tiles. And the AI wont send workers to rebuild those improvements during a war. So they are wonderful to attack oil, alumminium, copper, uranium, etc.

- Destroying towns and villages are great, because theres nothing the AI can do about it but to wait till they mature again. That takes at least 30 turns, 60 without Free Speech

- If you have a large amount of cash, sabottaging wonders and SS parts are great! 1 spy is enough to prevent a whole civ from winning a space race forever: blow all mines and workshops, then just keep sabbotaging the construction itself. Repeat over and over... SS Engine is a great target for that.

- 4 Spies can really devastate a civs economy,


Agree to your post ofcourse, but you are allowed to build only 3 spies, right? Or did it change in Warlords?

Priest limit is three, Spy limit is four.

Correction Welnic. Missionary (not priest) limit is 3, spy is four.

I love put a spies in my enemy city and pillage their improvement to win Wonder build. Somehow they always build same wonder with me and will finish at the same time with me. Now I can slowing down them a bit. Also, put spy on my capital city to check whether there are putting a spies on my cities too.

Regards,
Arto.

Correction Welnic. Missionary (not priest) limit is 3, spy is four.

Corrections on corrections on corrections! :crazyeye:

What I like about Spies is looking at how the AI "thinks" when managing cities-- for example, seeing which civs farm and which cottage. (There's a reason Monty falls behind in the tech race, and it's only partially due to belligerence.) You can also learn a lot about where AIs keep their troops, and whether a huge stack of troops on your border is normal or a sign of war. Caesar is fond of letting huge stacks idle in core cities, for example, so when you see one in a border city, chances are good war's coming. Someone like Cyrus, OTOH, goes for more of a "donut" strategy, keeping the center pretty empty; as a result, you get a lot less warning when a backstab is coming up.

Anyone else like the idea of bringing back the Diplomat? Maybe have the unit come along with Civil Service (or Nationalism, if you want later timeline), and either have it be unable to conduct espionage, or maybe just Steal Plans. Another possibility is that they can ignore Open Borders, but can't get info when you're at war with a civ-- essentially a peace time only Spy.

Pro: Information that early would be great, and would really change the face of Medieval and Rennaisance war.

Con: Depending on the map, it would make Paper less important, as trading maps would reveal info you could get in 10-20 turns of movement. The unit would also make Open Borders, and the resulting lack of info, less significant in the mid-game. As it stands now, leaders like Tokugawa are usually ciphers, and you have to go to war to see what their land looks like.

Too imbalancing? Well, let's kick the idea around and see.

- 4 Spies can really devastate a civs economy, if you have enough money (800:gold: per turn) and patience (reloading when they fail). After 10 turns sabotaging farms, towns, mines, the civ will be back to stone age.


Of course, the same thing could be said of warriors. Build a huge army of them, and simply reload every time one of them dies. With enough money and paitience, you'll be able to defeat any civ this way, no matter how powerful they are.

I try to avoid strategies that rely on reloading, since it's not very fun.

Anyone else like the idea of bringing back the Diplomat? Maybe have the unit come along with Civil Service (or Nationalism, if you want later timeline), and either have it be unable to conduct espionage, or maybe just Steal Plans. Another possibility is that they can ignore Open Borders, but can't get info when you're at war with a civ-- essentially a peace time only Spy.


In the "total realism" mod, there's a unit kind of like this called the informor. You get it with writing, just like the old diplomat, and it can't perform any actual missions- all it does is go around enemy territory revealing what they have, and it can't be seen by most units. I really like it, and I don't think it's unbalanced. One problem, though, is that I don't think the AI would get any use out of a unit like this.

Of course, the same thing could be said of warriors. Build a huge army of them, and simply reload every time one of them dies. With enough money and paitience, you'll be able to defeat any civ this way, no matter how powerful they are.

I try to avoid strategies that rely on reloading, since it's not very fun.

Well, you dont need saving and reloading for the spies strategy to work. If one fails, you can just build another one (they are really cheap) and send him again.

The only problem is the number of turns she takes to go back to original spot (1 for the build, 2-3 for distance). That slows you down a bit, but all the rest holds true.

Not the same can be said about warriors ;)

The funny thing is that the same thing *can* be said about Warriors. If one fails, you can just build another one. They are really cheap. The only problem is the number of turns it takes to get back to the spot. ;-)