We have captured this guy: http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/projects/projects0010.jpg and forced him to tell us the secrets of his "bunch of tubes". Now our people sit in their bedrooms all day, stealing the secrets of our rivals. We're too lazy to do our own research. So let's crack open a beer and do some hacking!

Settings

Version: Warlords Civ 1.61
Difficulty: Deity
Map: TBD (probably panagea)
Civ: TBD
Speed: Epic
No Tech Trading

The Variant

(1) Our science slider will sit permenantly at 0%.
(2) We cannnot use great people to lighbulb techs.
(3) We will build The Internet on our second turn. Credit for how to do this goes to Blake from Realms Beyond. We won't need to access the worldbuilder or use a mod.

The Roster

At the moment, I'm reserving the roster for the six that played the previous two games in the series: Blid, mike p, Kikinit, Asperge, Cosmichail and myself. If any of these people cannot play then Ruff Hi is next in line (and the alternate).

Please sign in and give your preferred leader/map type. Financial and Organized are fairly useless, and philosophical isn't great either. So far I'm thinking Churchill, Cyrus, Brennus, Mao or Washington. When considering map type, remember that The Internet only works for civs we know of.

sooooo, I'll watch this from the sidelines. I only want to play 2 SG's at a time at the moment and with KK05 about to kick off and the SGOTM I'm there already.

I'll watch this with interest though to see how the heck you are going to get the internet. Start in the modern age?

OK. Sounds like Cyrus, Churchill or Washington would all be nice and give us a chance to try Charismatic.

Tokugawu might also be a good choice, since all gunpowder units start with 3 promotions (Combat 1, Drill 1, and City Garrison 1). I'm assuming if we get the Internet right away, we'll have gunpowder fairly quickly too.

It's an ancient era start. You modify the XML (put it in custom-assets) to make the internet cost 1 hammer and require no techs. Then build it on your first turn instead of starting a warrior or whatever. Then if you save the game and delete the modified XML you will still have the internet.

Does the internet keep on giving you your rivals techs throughout? I thought it just caught you up once.

Yes it gives you techs throughout.

Hi Soooooo - thx for the invite. I am available but don't have warlords - but I was looking for an excuse to buy it.

So, what happens if an AI decides it wants to build the Internet and beats you to it?

@Kikinit: OK, happy lurking :)

Hmm, I've just remembered that Cosmichail (and maybe Ruff_Hi) doesn't have warlords yet. Maybe we should just do this on Vanilla civ - especially as we're still learning Warlords and a deity game might be a bit soon :) In that case I guess Isabella or Kublai would be a good leader.

Edit: Cross-Posted with Ruff_Hi.

If the AI wants to build it then we win because the human always gets the wonder when a human and AI build it on the same turn.

Thanks for me keeping me in the loop Sooooo unfortunately I don't have warlords yet and can't play. I am sure you guys will go through this like usual and good luck on playing deity. Will be lurking though.

:lol: We all posted at the same time.

Let's do this on vanilla civ. Are you in Cosmichail? Who do you want to play as?

Sure I'll play vanilla Sooooo. I like Kublai but doesn't matter I'll go with team consensus.

If the AI wants to build it then we win because the human always gets the wonder when a human and AI build it on the same turn.That is news to me and very good to know. I remember Civ II (or was it III) where you could store hammers in carivans and then add them back to wonders. For some reason, the wonder order was based on the civilization and the Russians (IIRC) were first. Finally, you got a message that "so and so" was about to finish a wonder, and you could use your carivans to steal the wonder from him (if you were russian!).

Edit: I have no preference for leader but would suggest a non-financial leader. Also, what are we going to do with all of our gold or are we going to run the culture slide on the high side?

Signing in,
I like Izzy combo. Bis would be nice too to get a hold on some wonders in peaceful times

i'm in. hope you will recognise me since my name has changed in a way i always wanted :) (Asperge without 'r' was a silly mistake, and i thought it couldn't be changed)

I prefer Highlands for a change (or continents), and i guess we will have to do a lot of warring so let's take aggressive, and cause we will not found a religion and not build libraries, let's become creative so i prefer that mongol guy....Kublai Khan.

And another question / comment - when we have killed off (:lol:) all but 1 AI, we will have killed off our tech gathering mechanism - can we research then?

no, last 2 must be eliminated in same turn:)

Actually, I'm thinking we might want Cyrus if we're using vanilla Civ. As pointed out above, we won't found a religion or need libraries so Creative will probably be pretty useful.

Also, since the science slider is going to be at zero, we can ramp up the culture for happiness. Big happy cities could really benefit from being Expansive.

Edited to add:

On second though, if we are going to use the culture slider for happiness, we won't need Creative once we unlock the slider with Drama. Commerce will get the borders popped.

Expansive will probably still be a good choice, so perhaps we should consider Bismark, Isabella, or Genghis, as their other traits aren't weakened by this variant. I agree that Financial, Philosophical, and Organized have all been nerfed for this game.

I don't think the industrious trait will be great for us cause we can't research to techs wich offers the wonders we want to build. There will always be two other guys who will build that wonder very fast. I prefer to conquer them.

Are we allowed to get representation or free religion ???

Expansive, creative or (first) aggressive are OK to me > Ghenghis, Kublai or Cyrus. i prefer mongol.

Are we forgetting spiritual? Having zero turns lost when we swap civics could be huge - we are already behind the hammer production of the AIs so missing turns in anarchy just puts us further behind.

Spiritual + Aggressive is ... Monty. That is good as it will also remove an idiot (as in 'look, there is a civ that I feel like attacking ... actually, it doesn't matter if I feel like it or not ... "Monty declares war!") from the AI side of things.

I thought about Monty too but since S-01 was done with the aztecs, I changed my mind.
As for wonders, we can start building one the same turn the second AI knows the tech. With the 50% discount, we will have very good odds. The AI don't get bonuses on world wonders on higher levels. We may be better off building units though. If I had to vote, I would say Izzy first but any civ would be fine

Are we forgetting spiritual? Having zero turns lost when we swap civics could be huge - we are already behind the hammer production of the AIs so missing turns in anarchy just puts us further behind.

if you accept that gold isn't important in this game, than the spiritual trait is less important.

I also would like Monty as opponent, just to make the game more exciting. I suggest sooooo will do this with custom game. I'm having big trouble with him in a current solo emperor game, i would like to learn how to handle him:)

Asperger I like you new look cool. I find that expansive helps a lot with the health but that's on monarch/emperor. I have never played deity so will "tread carefully". I like the creative trait for getting those borders popped but the aggressive is helpful for warmongering. Considering it's deity probably need to warmonger a lot so I still like Kublai with creative/aggressive or Genghis with aggressive/expansive. (not crazy about the UU though)

Well I think the best leader would be Monty - but he's out because we've played him.

I think expansive is fairly weak for a warmongers game. Cities are usually small due to WW, whipping and drafting, and they usually have plenty of health resources from having a large empire. Ironically, expansive is best for an OCC.

So I'm going to go with Kublai. I take Mike's point about the culture slider, but by Drama creative has lost its power anyway. Creative is all about the early game saving your civ from having to build obelisks and getting that second ring of resources hooked up quickly.

I'm going to create a start in the morning. We've got to settle on the 1st turn or we could miss out on the internet.

Let's go! Al Gore is locked in a cage right next to me. I order him to get to work with the reward of chocolate chip cookies for every tech he discovers for us.

We're Kublai Khan. In the end I went for a standard panagea map. Random climate, shoreline, sea level.

We generate this start:

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1705/s03startbf5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Not much grassland but some nice resources.

I settle on the spot (a plains hill). Let's see what we can build:

http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/7127/s03internetbuildhd3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Hmm, a scout. That could sure be useful! Oh look a barracks, let's build one of those!

:scan:

Waitasec, The Internet sure looks a bargain. I think I'm going to build that actually.

Al Gore boots up and is ready to load windows. Science to 0%.

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9031/s03internetfinishma6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Next we start a warrior. Barbs on deity are No Joke. The hut gave us gold.

On our third turn (!) we meet HC. Why is HC always my nearest neighbour? Not that I'm complaining, I like the fact he's the only civ that builds warriors above Monarch.

It's turn 5. Welcome to deity:

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2118/s03hcsettlespn8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Our warrior completes and I start a second. A scout kills a wolf.

Years pass, our scout heals and kills another wolf. I promote him to W1. Another hut gave us gold. On turn 15 we meet our second AI: Roosevelt.

Al Gore finally works out how to load Telnet and guesses HC's and FDR's passwords. Apparently they were "quechua" and "iluvamerica". He earns 2 cookies:

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/5920/s03archandagridb5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

A few turns later Al does his buisiness again:

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/8755/s03ahandminlt4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Once the second warrior completed I put 2 turns into an archer, then swapped to a worker at size 2.

Here are our lands after 20 turns:

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/5197/s03empire3600admk9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Our scout will probably die next turn due to a barb archer - sorry about that.

Roster (in order of sign ups):

sooooo - Just played
mike p - UP for 20 turns
ruff_hi - On Deck (20 turns)
Cosmichail - 15 turns from here onwards
blid
Asperger

Alternate: Al Gore

What do U intend to do with the money??

I don't think we'll have much money. We won't focus on cottages, and with the high maintenence and unit upkeep costs at this difficulty level I think we'll be struggling for cash.

Our scout will probably die next turn due to a barb archer - sorry about that.

The barbarcher is wounded, our scout has more than 50% chance to survive:)

here a first try of city planning:

Alas, our scout is dead.

A few turns later, Al teaches us Fishing and Mysticism. He also starts to drone on about ManBearPig (He's half Man, He's half bear, and he's half pig!!), so I decide to build a boat to get away from the crazy fool. Workboat starts, worker on hold.

Hi Monty!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Hackers1.JPG

It's 3310 BC and we need a new research goal. No one's discovered Polytheism yet - maybe we could found Hinduism. It's only 253 turns away.

In 3130 BC we are beaten to Hinduism. Damn, with only 247 turns to go, I thought we might just have a chance.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Hackers2.JPG

Anyway, our warrior survives contact with the barb archer and we meet Isabella. Al chimes in with Polytheism.

3070BC Our workboat is finally done, and our worker is back in the queueueue.

2980BC I really want to steal this worker, but I'm afraid:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Hackers3.JPG

2950BC Bronze working comes in.

2830BC Pottery too.

I didn't revolt to slavery while the worker was building, figuring it less wasteful to have him in the field building stuff while we're in anarchy. Revolt to slavery should probably be the next order of business so we can whip out an archer when the barbs come.

There's a barb city directly south of our capital. I also would like it if we can settle the spot NW of the copper.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Hackers4.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Hackers_BC-2800.Civ4SavedGame

Next time I'm not screwing around at home when I should be at work, I'm going to get hooked up with imageshack and stop doing all of these screenies as attachments. BTW, is there a thread anywhere explaining how all that works? And what are you guys using to crop and/or mark up the screenshots? There's probably something better out there for free than Windows Paint, right?

Yes, we need this copper

You can use gimp for image processing. It is free and IMO better than MS Paint. I used imageshack today for the first time and it was straight forward, upload image, click host-it then copy the link labeled as "forums images" or something alike. But honestly, I prefer using "photobucket.com" where I have an account and can find my images later, nicely organized in folders and sub-folders

Well done Mike, but it's a damn shame about hinduism. Couldn't you have told Al to google for "many gods" or something?

Ruff is up!

sooooo
mike p
ruff_hi - UP (20 turns)
Cosmichail - On Deck (15 turns from here onwards)
blid
Asperger

Alternate: Al Gore

Copper spot sounds good. Slavery this turn too as Mike suggests. Let's build lots of farms in our cities for whipping - so the river sites are a priority. Workshops aint much good for us yet.

Al Gore reporting for duty I mean Cos. (on deck)

Mike I like photobucket too.

Workboat starts, worker on hold.
:confused: why?, but as sooooo wisely pointed out, one who actually plays knows best:D

Glad Monty showed up, let's hope Toku is not far away ( and Cyrus offcause).

Glad Monty showed up, let's hope Toku is not far away ( and Cyrus offcause).

Yeah that was just a coincidence. I forgot you wanted Monty in the game - I left the AIs random.

Why do you think worker is better than workboat Asperger? I normally go for the boat given the choice, as it lets the city grow at the same time. I'd like to know your thinking here - when you and I disagree you are normally correct :).

i have the save and will try and play / post today (gimp + imageshack)

Well, for what it's worth, I mm'd the tiles so that we were running max hammers and no food surplus while building the workboat. I tend to do that as it means that we get more food and more commerce more quickly. And the extra food shaved a turn off of the worker. Also once the workboat is complete you have an instant improvement, once the worker is complete, you still need to build stuff with it.

If research actually mattered this game, my way is almost certainly better, but I'll concede that building the worker and a pasture while the boat started might have been better only because we'd get the third tile improvement (camp on the 'phants) done sooner. But then again, without surplus food, that's not such a hot tile anyway. Bottom line? I don't know - maybe we should ask Al.

Well, I managed to reveal 5 more tiles. Our scouting warrior couldn't go further SW due to closed borders with Bella - I sent him north where he survived an archer attack (promoted with cover as I expect the barbs he meets will be archers and if he runs into an axe, he is dead no matter what promotion I give him). I would like him to find the other two AIs.

The worker finishes the pasture and roads to the copper - maybe camping the phants would have been better.

The archer finishes and doesn't get any promotion(?). Oh, no barracks and here we are an aggressive civ with a 50% discount on the barracks. I start a barracks while I wait for the city to hit size 3.

Size 3 comes in with a bit of tile management (auto manager now ON) and we start a settler. I also chop 1 forest on grass to open up the chain farming and turn 20 starts with a finished settler. I decide to stop there to give the team a selection of second city options.

Al dropped by to show my a very impressive chart that had a huge tail at the right hand side. It looked very worrisome. As he left, the following dropped out of his case ...

masonry
Priesthood
Meditation

Where did our warrior go ...
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/274/scs30002py0.jpg

Don't you hate it ... he could have had Woodsman I promotion instead of cover ...
While defending, Warrior loses to: Barbarian Warrior (1.12/2) at 37.4 percent.

Finally, here is a snap shot of our known lands ... I would suggest settling ON the copper (red dot) and would leave blue dot for a future fishing village.
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/4056/scs30001ze4.jpg


Turn 40 (2800 BC)

IBT:

Turn 41 (2770 BC)

IBT:

Turn 42 (2740 BC)

IBT:

Turn 43 (2710 BC)

IBT:
Tech learned: Masonry

Turn 44 (2680 BC)

IBT:
Tech learned: Priesthood
While defending, Warrior defeats (0.56/2): Barbarian Archer at 69.3 percent.

Turn 45 (2650 BC)
Warrior promoted: Cover

IBT:

Turn 46 (2620 BC)
Karakorum finishes: Archer

IBT:

Turn 47 (2590 BC)
Karakorum begins: Barracks

IBT:

Turn 48 (2560 BC)
Karakorum grows: 3

IBT:

Turn 49 (2530 BC)
Karakorum begins: Settler

IBT:
While defending, Warrior loses to: Barbarian Warrior (1.12/2) at 37.4 percent.

Turn 50 (2500 BC)

IBT:

Turn 51 (2470 BC)

IBT:

Turn 52 (2440 BC)

IBT:
Judaism founded in a distant land

Turn 53 (2410 BC)

IBT:

Turn 54 (2380 BC)

IBT:
Tech learned: Meditation

Turn 55 (2350 BC)

IBT:

Turn 56 (2320 BC)

IBT:

Turn 57 (2290 BC)

IBT:

Turn 58 (2260 BC)

IBT:

Turn 59 (2230 BC)
Karakorum finishes: Settler

IBT:

Turn 60 (2200 BC)


The Modem (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Hackers_BC-2200.Civ4SavedGame)

I hadn't considered settling on the copper, but that certainly does have some advantages. With the river we should have a trade route to the capital even without a road once we learn Sailing. But the copper hill is the only decent production tile around there and I'm not sure we want to lose it.

Then again, I'm not up for another 120 turns or so, so it'll be moot anyway by the time I play again!

I normally go for the boat given the choice, as it lets the city grow at the same time.

i thought worker was halfway done, but in principle i agree with you except when i build a boat i try not let city grow, i mean put all hammers in the boat.

ruff_hi's idea of second city in interesting but still i think it's better to build the city at the coast. Takes a few turns extra to connect the copper but we can make an archer in place.

Notice that the barb city is exactly on the right place.:)

I would be hesitant about settling on the copper. I think this next city wants to be a high production one, as it and the capital will probably be building most of the units for our first war. In addition to the 1NW spot mike identified, we should consider 1S of the copper. This uses the cows, which would otherwise be wasted, and gets us an extra plains hill. Plains cows are a 3/3/0 tile - very useful. With that and a farmed floodplains the city should have enough food to work its 2 hills.

I'm not a fan of the governers at this stage of the game. I think we should work the grassland forest instead of the plains forest at Karakorum. EDIT: This isn't a criticism, as Ruff was building a settler and it obv makes no difference. Just advice for the next player to change tiles.

Cosmichail is up for 15 turns.

sooooo
mike p
ruff_hi - Just Played
Cosmichail - UP
blid - On Deck
Asperger

Alternate: Al Gore

Logging in: Cosmichail

You are not authorized....
Initiate Al Gore sequence 110011

Checking.......
Authorization approved

Retrieving files from Server.
Download successful

Computer what is the command sequence?

Hello computer? (damn keep forgetting can't talk into the mouse)

Seeking command codes computer what's our goal?
To seek out and explore and settle next?

Awaiting further orders, me not that familiar with deity

Should we settle on copper but I agree with Mike if it's the only production around better to settle in another spot. Seeking input. Hello computer input. Argh not the mouse again.

Initiating play sequence later tonight when the owls are out.

EDIT: will follow the commanders suggestions 1S of copper sounds good to me too. Change from plains forest to grass. Haven't looked at save yet been too involved with SGOTM02. But will look and post later before I play. Geez that's funny asperger/sooooo/cos all posted the same time. LOL

Just looked at the save:

I agree with Soooo's assessment and will move settler there to settle 1S of copper to catch cows/copper/ and another plains hill. Notice worker is roading to copper so get that hooked up first then move to hook up Oliphants for happiness/commerce/production.

I think asperger mention of coastal city is a good point but if we are warring will be better with a city that will produce for us. I am sure we can settle on the coast later.

Sooooo mentioned barbs are bad on Deity so should I build another archer first before moving the settler to make sure our cities are well garrisoned or go ahead and move the settler and archer out to settle. Then after barracks start an archer to garrison Karakorum. I notice now the happy cap is 4 with elephants will be 5 so we have a bit of room to grow. (respectively the 2nd city will only be 4)

Will wait for some input and play in 3 or 4 hours maybe later.

T1-2170BC

Move settler/archer to designated spot

T2-2140BC

Another barb city pops up interfering with our plans to settle
Keep moving settler/archer

T3-2110BC

We can’t settle 1S of copper now because of barb city so settle Beshbalik on blue spot one SW which give cows/copper/floodplains/one plains hill and one grass hill.

T4-2080BC

Worker can’t do copper right now so move to camp the Elephants for happiness/production/commerce. Once we Besh pops borders we can work copper.
Barb archer attacks Besh and looses.

T5-2050BC

Start road to elephants

T6-2020BC

Kara starts archer finishes barracks

T7-1990BC

Zzzzz

T8-1960BC

zzzzz

T9-1930BC

The internet uploads “sailing”.

T10-1900BC

Besh pops it borders

T11-1870BC

Kara finishes archer starts another

T12–1840BC

Zzzzz

T13-1810BC

Elephants put in camp start road

T14-1780BC

Zzzzz

T15-1750BC
We are drinking beer surfing the net and what do we download:

Writing/Iron works nice and we have iron in Kara’s fat cross so we can move worker there next.

Kara finishes archer start worker to help Besh along but feel free to change it. (pop now at four and pop cap is at 5)

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/cosmichail/Civ4ScreenShot0386.jpg

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/cosmichail/Civ4ScreenShot0387.jpg

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/cosmichail/Civ4ScreenShot0388.jpg

A couple of things:

I forgot to check what the citizens are working in Kara. (got into the beer too much while surfing the net and those peanuts weren't quite right.) I like that coastal site north of Kara for the fish/clams/rice. I bet Asperger wants to build a GP farm there but hey we can't use the lightbulbs though. I am sure though we can supersize them. Who knows our culture might even cause that barb city to flip. Georgie beat us to the horses south of us but hey we got iron now so it's time to beat some people up.

Good news about the iron. Blid is up!

sooooo
mike p
ruff_hi
Cosmichail - Just Played
blid - UP
Asperger - On Deck

Alternate: Al Gore

Another worker sounds good. I think we need to chop the forest 1E of Kara to spread irrigation eventually to the north west tiles. So let's speed the worker out with that. Also, let's hook the iron asap.

First objective now i think is take barbcity in the south before AI does it. GP-city can wait, but we sure can use Great Engineers.

wow, Karakorum is turning into one top city

Got it
The barb city north is not so hot, I prefer the one south which have phants, cows, banana and spices. Anyway, those are heavily defended. Let's have a sword/axe couple play jackal there. Don't think we can afford to build a stack of 5 or 6 swords right now.

I also was thinking that the pyramids/Uni suffrage would be handy to use the money we are accumulating. It may be a bit overkill though

That second city needs some improvements. I'll have both workers there once Iron is hooked

Good work C.

One tiny observation, if you built the road to the elephants through the cows, you'd have the 'phants hooked up one turn sooner, since you don't waste time moving into the forest, and the cows would be done too, and then the iron would be quicker to hook up as well. Plus a road in the forest means ManBearPig might reach our city more quickly, which is bad.

Good point Mike, I just figured the cows being on the river we're hooked up already and the iron didn't show up until after I built the road to the phants.

It will allow a quicker chop now too.

I don't think the cows are on the river though. Though I did notice in Warlords that sometime a tile whose corner touches the mouth or start of the river is now considered to be fresh water, and presumably hooked up already, but I don't think that is the case with the cows. But I could be wrong.

T'was a quick set of turns.
Barb archers sucked me off throughout. They won't suicide against archers in forests and pursue poor workers. And when one finally attacks, he wins with 25% odds. He was combat II thanks to HC stupid useless attacks. HC is sending lonely war chariots against the barb city. Anyway, I protected the iron which is now mined and roaded.
A sword is due next turn in Kara so we can eliminate that barb threat. Before the iron was hooked, Kara was investing into a lighthouse. It has few turns left to finish
Besh finished its archer and started a barracks

We met a new face, Alex the mighty. I am glad he is not close by. HC, Alex and Monty in the same game. And with the fanatic Izzy to boot. Random AIs heh ?

Monty showed asking for open borders and I refused. We need to choose our friends carfeully. Izzy, Alex and Roos are all hindu. Monty and HC are still atheist.

Al was lazy this turnset and only discovered maths.

There is no more room to expand already. Izzy has 7 cities :eek:
At least we don't have to invest into settlers.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/blidblid/S-03/turnset1/02-S-03.jpg


Oh, there is a barb archer wandering around. I hope he'll head for the marble to pillage the road. He will make good training for our sword to come

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/blidblid/S-03/turnset1/01-S-03.jpg


Happy downloading (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Hackers_BC-1300.Civ4SavedGame)

Blid I laughed my head off at your second sentence. At least you're having fun with the barbs erhem. (probably a language thing) Did you at least have some beer and nuts while downloading and, well doing that thing with the barbs. (still laughing man)

Looks like it will be like SO-01 where we fight our way out. Good thing we got some iron/copper nearby. Maybe after math the internet will give us construction now that would be nice.

Happy downloading

thanks Blid, i really enjoyed the 0,75 sec. it took:lol:

A nice and easy turnset. After the first sword killed the barbarcher, they stayed away untill the last turn a barb showed up in the north-west. Both barbcity's were under attack of Isabella (north-west), Huayna and Roosevelt (south).
Workers hooked up marble, copper and second cow and the trade route between our two city's is repaired.
We got Calender and Monarhie and stayed 2 turns in anarchie to change civics to Slavery and Heredatery rule.

I postponed again and again finishing the lighthouse in Kara in favour of swords to be able to attack the southern barbcity in time. I got my chance my last turn when a stupid barb left it's city while three swords and an archer were threatening it so i took my chance and finished off the remaining two barbs without a loss and the city is ours!

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/9033/civ4hackersplacemn2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I declined all proposals to open up borders. Normally in my solo games i open up almost everything without thinking, but you guys are more carefully about this so Sooooo may decide. There are three Hindoe civ's but Huayna has silk wich we maybe can trade for clam or marble.

As you can see in the picture we have a sword with 8XP. Make him 10 and we can make Heroic Epic which will go fast with our marble.

If i'm correct and everything went the way it should then it's not impossible you can find the save here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Hackers_BC-0925.Civ4SavedGame)

Wow, a whole round in 2 days. I love this team :goodjob:. Great work capturing Olmec Asperger.

IHT: A lighthouse in Kara can wait. I change it to an axe.

T1 (715 BC) The archer that moved out of Olmec suicides itself against our sword in a forest. Confucianism FIDL.

T2 (895 BC) A barb archer suicides itself against our archer on the copper hill. Besh sword -> sword. Al Gore teaches us about Code of Laws. The AI that got it this turn must have been pissed off about not founding confucianism. I open borders with HC to scout his lands. He has no religion still. We set research on Philosophy, Taoism hasn't been founded yet and it's due in 2028 turns. I think we've got a chance.

T3 (880 BC) Kara axe -> sword

T4 (965 BC) Olmec is out of revolt and begins a granary.

T5 (850 BC) I open borders with the Hindus, so we have OB with everyone except Monty.

T6 (835 BC) We've got some troops, time to decide who to attack. We can't be peaceful at deity, and we've got to attack before our troops are obsoleted by macemen and longbows. Our nearest neighbours are HC and roosevelt. I make an executive decision and choose HC. He is the GNP leader, and Roosevelt is at the bottom of the GNP pile (except for us of course :)). HC also has neither iron or copper, but roosevelt has both. Also, Hc's capital is very close to ours (we met him on turn 3 remember) so he won't take very long to cripple. Finally he has no religion, but roosevelt has some hindu friends. Move troops towards Inca.

T7 (820 BC) Kara sword -> axe.

T8 (805 BC) Besh sword -> axe. Huayna builds the hanging gardens in Tiwanaku, our first target.

T10 (775 BC) Kara axe -> spear.

T11 (760 BC) Chrisitanity is founded in Santiago. That's OK, as it will get no culture as long as Izzy isn't christian.

T13 (730 BC) Besh axe -> spear. Demand gold from HC, he refuses. Declare war, move in on Tiwanaku. We have 7 swords and 2 axes.

T14 (715 BC) Arrive at the doorsteps of Tiwanaku. It has some nice resources and hills.

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/1341/tiwanakuiv2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

T15 (700 BC) Take Tiwanaku with the loss of one sword.

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/5809/capturetiwanakufo7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Empire:

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/4029/empire700bckm9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Unfortunately a galley will pillage our clams in a few turns, and we can't get a galley out quick enough to stop it.

Mike p is up!

sooooo - Just Played
mike p - UP
ruff_hi - On Deck
Cosmichail
blid
Asperger

Nice game!! liked the idea=]

Nice progress guys. We have 2 new cities already.
Sooooo, you sure found many valid reasons for picking out Huayna. I guess he was bound to be the first victim. There is no tech extortion in this game so he may just take the bite until he dies. Too bad he built the gardens and not the pyramids. BTW, this is damn early for them knowing that the AI don't get discount on wonders


Blid I laughed my head off at your second sentence. At least you're having fun with the barbs erhem. (probably a language thing) Did you at least have some beer and nuts while downloading and, well doing that thing with the barbs. (still laughing man)

Sure it is a language thing though I am glad it made you laugh. Maybe if those barbs were amazones, I'd be having fun with them the way you see it ;)

Blid

My mind was in the gutter as usual but I'm with you on those Amazons. PS you have a good command of the English language. Wish I could say the same for my French being Canadian and all.

Got it, and am going to sleep. Should turn it around after breakfast tomorrow though. I assume the plan is to continue the war against HC.

Too bad he built the gardens and not the pyramids.

i was thrilled we got the gardens. One extra health point and great engeneer points which are the best gp-points we can get imo in this game. After pyramids this is most worthful wonder for us ( from the early ones).

Well, it's probable he built the gardens with a GE from the pyramids. I don't see much production in Tiwanaku to build a wonder quickly. It's unlikely he's got metal casting and produced a GE that way. The large amount of jungle meant he had to build an aqueduct in Tiwanaku, leading to the gardens. My guess is that Cuzco has the pyramids.

My guess is that Cuzco has the pyramids.

Alas, you're wrong Sherlock Holmes, F9 tells us Alex has build the pyramides. So you think when AI build a city in the jungle and gets problems with it's health, in stead of cutting the jungle they build a aquaduct. AI is stupid. It indeed strikes me to see AI always waiting so long with cutting their jungle.

700 BC I see Alex is willing to make this trade:
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m260/mikes_civ_shots/s-03%20Hackers/hackershorsetrading.jpg

Since we have Iron, I'm willing to trade him Copper for now, at least until we take over HC's pretty horsies.

685 BC I look forward to building some Keshiks with our newly acquired horses, but apparently only HC has HBR as one of his HA's withdraws from combat at Tiwananku. I clean up the remains with one of our swords. And send an axe and two rookies swords north.

670 BC As predicted, our clams get pillaged. HC parks both galleys just outside our capitol, blocking our galley in the city. I wish I could build triremes right about now.

655 BC Monty asks us to cancel our Open Borders with Roosevelt. Checking out the power graph, it seems like a good idea to acquiesce.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m260/mikes_civ_shots/s-03%20Hackers/hackerspowergraph.jpg

Meanwhile at Cori.....we win 2 battles in hot sword on archer action.

Al tells us that we should grab the horses by the neck and not the tail and now we can start training Keshiks.

640 BC Monty asks us for Open Borders. I accept without thinking about it. Then I realize he's the only Buddhist in a sea of Hindus. 10 turns later this hasn't bit us in the rear yet, and the deal is now cancelable as of the start of the next turnset. He did help us by building some roads in our territory though.

A third sword has arrived at Cori.... and kills HC's sword there. Our other two swords are promoted to CR2 and heal this turn. (The axeman accompanying them has been promoted to Medic.)

625 BC We capture Cori.... with no casualties and I rename the city Cori.

610 BC Tiwananku is starving coming out of anarchy, so I whip a barracks.

We also learn Monotheism.

595 BC Minoan is captured by Spain, which should end the barb nuisance for all time. Our troops at Cori continue to heal after being attacked by a suicide catapult. That's not fair - we don't know Construction yet!

I also whip a warrior at Tiwananku, since it it still starving at size 2.

580 BC The road to Tiwananku is complete and I upgrade the warrior to an axeman. I start sending troops northeast.

565 BC There's one turn like this in every turnset, it seems.

550 BC Hinduism spreads to Karakorum and we learn Metal Casting. Izzy is sending even more missionaries our way.

535 BC We are in position outside of Cuzco. There are 4 swords, an axe, and a spearman that have crossed the river next to the city, and a Keshik and 2 swords in the woods NW of the city.

520 BC The axeman in Cuzco could be a real pain, so I send the Keshik across the river and attack at 26.7%. As expected, we lose, but the axe is reduced to 1.5/5, and we lose one more sword taking out the Incan capitol.

505 BC The Incans don't counter attack all of our weakened troops, so they move into Cuzco and start healing up.

490 BC I get a keshik killed by a spear while scouting out more Incan territory, but I've found their Iron and another Keshik is in position to pillage it.

475 BC I kill off the Incan Spearman and pillage their iron. The spearman has moved out of Tiwananku for a potential counterstrike in case the Incans manage to kill the Keshik on the iron.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Hackers_BC-0475.Civ4SavedGame

Nice work Mike, HC is crippled for sure. Ruff has the honour of finishing him off (3 cities left).

sooooo
mike p - Just Played
ruff_hi - UP
Cosmichail - On Deck
blid
Asperger

I think we should build elephants and cats now we have construction rather than keshiks. Looks like we could do with another worker too. Besh needs a forge first though. Power graph is quite worrying. We've build nothing but military and were still lagging behind until we killed most of HC's troops. Being last in power is not good with Alex and Monty around. If one of HC's cities is crappy and doesn't impinge on our culture I think we should leave it alone so we are not last in power.

Lets see what Al teaches us this round ...

Highlights of the round ...
whip at Cuzco (cat) to avoid staving citizens
found Huayna's new capital and tried to take it quickly - killed off some of his archers but managed (oops) to lose both of our medics (why did we have sword medic anyway?)
Alex cancels the horse gold / copper deal - we lose our unique unit (sigh)
Isabella comes asking for 140g - this is one of the problems of having too much money - I say YES
We capture Ollantaytombo for the loss of ZERO units
Montezuma asks us for one of our silks - I way YES
Huayna offers peace plus 200gold - not quite yet


And that brings me to turn 14 of my 15 set - as you can see, we haven't picked up any tech, nil. I was starting to think that Al wasn't working and needed re-booting or similar. We are still 1985 turns away from Philosophy. I was really hoping Al would give us this tech so that I could select a tech to research - oh well, not to be.

The last turn is interesting...
IBT ... Feudalism - ooh, we should swap to this tech to get our units more XPs
our whipped cat from Cuzco has bombed Machu Picchu's defenses to 0%, our swords have healed and we have two Keshik standing by ... the cat suicides and the rest of the city defense is cleaned up with no loss
the best bit of news was that when I looked at the defenders in Machu Picchu again, there was a Horse Archer there - that was great news because it meant that Huayna has horses somewhere and (soon) we will too!
however, the most important bit of news is ... Isabella comes asking us to cut our dealings with Monty ... either will be pissed at us no matter what I do ... say YES and Monty will not talk, say NO and Isabella will give us more negative modifies. In the end I say YES because I have never liked Monty and there are two fairly easy to defend avenues that Monty would take in attacking us, while our border with Isabella is fairly open.
Huayna has 1 city left (not by design) and we can get peace plus 70gold


Picture of our new holdings and possible avenues of attack for Monty. Naturally, reverse those arrows if we are attacking him. If so, I would select the approach on the right to split his holdings.

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/4976/scs030001tv0.jpg


Turn 135 (475 BC)
Beshbalik finishes: Keshik
Cori's borders expand
Cori finishes: Archer

IBT:

Turn 136 (460 BC)
Beshbalik begins: Catapult
Cori begins: Archer
Cori begins: Catapult
Archer II (Archer) promoted: City Garrison I
Beshbalik's borders expand

IBT:

Turn 137 (445 BC)

IBT:

Turn 138 (430 BC)
Tiwanaku grows: 2
Tiwanaku finishes: Archer

IBT:

Turn 139 (415 BC)
Tiwanaku begins: Catapult
Cuzco begins: Catapult
Archer III (Archer) promoted: City Garrison I
While attacking, Swordsman loses to: Incan Archer (0.12/3) at 86.5 percent.
While attacking, Swordsman defeats (5.04/6): Incan Archer at 86.5 percent.
While attacking, Swordsman defeats (3.12/6): Incan Archer at 86.5 percent.
While attacking, Swordsman defeats (1.68/6): Incan Archer at 68.6 percent.
While attacking, Swordsman loses to: Incan Archer (0.48/3) at 65.2 percent.
While attacking, Axeman loses to: Incan Archer (0.15/3) at 27.9 percent.
Axeman promoted: City Raider I
While attacking, Axeman defeats (5.00/5): Incan Chariot at 96.0 percent.
Cuzco finishes: Catapult

IBT:

Turn 140 (400 BC)
Cuzco begins: Archer
Keshik I (Keshik) promoted: Combat I
While attacking, Keshik I (Keshik) defeats (5.16/6): Incan Catapult at 99.5 percent.
Swordsman promoted: City Raider III
While attacking, Swordsman defeats (3.12/6): Incan Archer at 94.8 percent.
While attacking, Swordsman defeats (1.80/6): Incan Archer at 70.3 percent.
While attacking, Axeman defeats (1.25/5): Incan Spearman at 96.0 percent.
Beshbalik finishes: Catapult

IBT:

Turn 141 (385 BC)
Beshbalik begins: War Elephant
Keshik I (Keshik) promoted: Combat II
Swordsman promoted: City Raider I
Swordsman promoted: City Raider II
Axeman promoted: Cover
Karakorum finishes: Forge

IBT:

Turn 142 (370 BC)
Karakorum begins: Swordsman
Beshbalik grows: 6
Olmec grows: 5
Cuzco's borders expand

IBT:

Turn 143 (355 BC)
Spearman promoted: Medic I
Cuzco finishes: Archer

IBT:

Turn 144 (340 BC)
Cuzco begins: Catapult
While attacking, Swordsman defeats (3.96/6): Incan Archer at 71.9 percent.
While attacking, Keshik I (Keshik) defeats (3.72/6): Incan Archer at 66.2 percent.
Captured Ollantaytambo (Huayna Capac)
Karakorum finishes: Swordsman

IBT:

Turn 145 (325 BC)
Karakorum begins: Catapult

IBT:

Turn 146 (310 BC)
Beshbalik finishes: War Elephant
Cori grows: 4

IBT:

Turn 147 (295 BC)
Beshbalik begins: Forge
Karakorum finishes: Catapult
Olmec grows: 6

IBT:

Turn 148 (280 BC)
Karakorum begins: Catapult

IBT:

Turn 149 (265 BC)
Tiwanaku grows: 3

IBT:
Tech learned: Feudalism

Turn 150 (250 BC)
Ollantaytambo begins: Catapult
Ollantaytambo begins: Archer
While attacking, Catapult I (Catapult) loses to: Incan Horse Archer (0.90/6) at 22.3 percent.
While attacking, Swordsman defeats (6.00/6): Incan Archer at 99.8 percent.
While attacking, Swordsman defeats (5.28/6): Incan Archer at 100.0 percent.
While attacking, Swordsman defeats (6.00/6): Incan Archer at 100.0 percent.
While attacking, Axeman defeats (0.50/5): Incan Catapult at 73.8 percent.
While attacking, Axeman defeats (4.50/5): Incan Quechua at 100.0 percent.
While attacking, Keshik I (Keshik) defeats (6.00/6): Incan Horse Archer at 100.0 percent.
Captured Machu Picchu (Huayna Capac)


had to zip the save as the upload was saying civ4savedgame is invalid extension (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/64034/1156180303.zip)

Ruff you do your usual speedy excellent gameplay. Now Soooo mentioned to leave the last city but don't we want those horses. Although we are better off with the elephants/cats right now. (only really want horses for the knights/cavalry). I think now maybe extort a tech (if we can do that) and make peace, start a large military buildup of elephants and cats/swords.

Too bad we don't have pyramids as we could go to US and buy units and keep our money low so as not to have AI extorting us. Asperger says Alex has it but considering Monty's demeanor now he will have to be our next victim. My turn will probably be a military buildup for the next player.

This is "I got it" (weird zip Greyfox had the same problem in his SG) and play later on tonight late.

EDIT: after a closer look once our borders pop at Machu we should have horses.

ruff_hi, my compliments for the way you write your report.

i had a quick look at the save:
- Monty and Huayna are pleased with eachother so sooooo's argument to keep Huayna alive doesn't hold (finish him!),
- use our money to upgrade our archers, it's also good for our powergraph, to scare Monty off,
- a city north of Karakorum can get 3 health-resourches we don't have yet,
- Heroic Epic !

As for the sword medic- I thought we had an axeman medic. If I promoted a sword to Medic too then I gotta quote Rumsfeld "You go to war with the army you have, not the army you want" - there probably wasn't another unit able to take the promotion at the time and I didn't want to lose tempo.

True that we'll have the horses briefly, but HC is going to be putting a lot of pressure on that tile culturally from his palace - if we leave him alive.

Ruff you had a tough decision on whether to cancel deals with Monty or not and I think you made the correct one. This will mean that Monty is our next target so we need to reinforce the cities Ruff identified. Can't look at the save but I think we should convert to Hinduism if we can and try to open borders with FDR. Good work capturing the cities too - HC's lands look like nice additions to our empire.

Not sure if we should keep the last city. We'll probably win the culture battle over the horses but could use the gold - I'll leave that to the next player. Vassalage looks good. The other AI is probably Toku and hasn't opened borders with anyone. Maybe we could send a keshik to find him and update our map.

sooooo
mike p
ruff_hi - Just Played
Cosmichail - UP
blid - On Deck
Asperger

D'oh, cross posted with both Mike and Asperger.

I like Asperger's idea about upgrading our archers. IMO settler for the 3 food resources can wait - building an army for Monty is more pressing. But it's a good idea for the medium-term. I don't think we can build the HE yet because we don't even have alphabet, let alone literature.

I vote for finishing Huayna too. We have money, don't care about maintenance.
We definitely need that city Asperger mentioned.
Ruff, wise decision accepting to drop relations with Monty. He is the only buddhist around and will end everyone worst enemy soon enough. Except for Roos who "has enough on his hands right now". Looking at the power graph, I really think he'll declare on us. Monty is stronger than him.
Upgrade archers and whip cats/phants. I guess we don't have the choice for the next victim. AI decide for us

What a mess of crossposting. It was when I checked open borders with Roosy that I saw he is preparing for war. Monty shall wait. We may even bribe him for war against Roosy, they don't like each other

EDIT : I am not sure the right passage to aztec lands exists. It can be water for all we know or did you see units coming this way ?

Monty is furious at Roos so he should declare on him ? Roos want to speak with us again. I would say turn to Hinduism and open borders with Roos. Also vassalge and theocratie when we get theologie.
We have literature so we can make Heroic Epic. Why wait with this when we are making forges everywhere. With marble HE is cheaper then forge and 4 times as powerful. Really don't understand why people always seems to wait with HE. It's the most important building in our game
.

I'm pretty sure we got alphabet in my turnset, though I might have forgotten to mention it.

I've had a look at the save now. Quite a few of our cities need barracks. We're aggressive so they are half price. Olmec needs to mine its hills pronto (and can whip its forge). Once Tiwanaku has had its corn farmed (also a priority) it is also a whipping candidate. Izzy is converting all of our cities for us so converting to Hinduism is a no brainer.

But ... is FDR going to declare on us or not? If he does then Cosmichail will have an interesting turnset :)

If he is preparing for war, then it will probably be with us because as Blid says the only other AI he isn't pleased with is Monty and Monty is much more powerful. Is there any reason other than for war that he has enough on his hands? And if we open borders and convert to hinduism will he change his mind?

Great feedback guys.

I read all your posts very carefully as to be honest I have never played Deity level and want to make sure I do it right. Here's a shortlist for myself as I am playing and these aren't necessarily in order just a synopsis.

1. Finish HC
2. Upgrade archers
2a. secondary settle north of Kara for health resources (as Sooooo stated this is medium term and probably won't happen during my turnset but I agree with this.)

3. Convert to hinduism/OB Roosevelt
4. Revolt to Vasslage (hopefully Theology will pop up before I do this)
5. another secondary goal == scout Toku
6. Whip forges/cats/phants
7. Build HE in Kara? (will make sure it goes in the best production city which is likely Kara)
8. Build barracks
9. Olmec mine hills pronto

I hope I got everything and appreciate the feedback.

Turn 0

All archers have been upgraded to Lbms.
Convert to Hinduism.

Turn 1

We are still the last in power even with upgrades.
OB with Roosevelt and sell dyes for 4 gpt.
Axe takes out spear.
Revolt to Vassalage/OR 2 turns anarchy.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/cosmichail/Civ4ScreenShot0396.jpg

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/cosmichail/Civ4ScreenShot0397.jpg

Turn 2

Roosevelt declares war on us. He only sends one sword and one axe so far.
We have a promoted CD2 longbow there and sword.
Troops will be ready to take HC’s last city next turn.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/cosmichail/Civ4ScreenShot0398.jpg

Turn 3

We take HC’s last city.
Roosevelt attacks Olmec he loose a sword but axe takes out lbm. Whip another lbm.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/cosmichail/Civ4ScreenShot0399.jpg

Turn 4

Kara finishes cat start Workboat to reinstate clams.
Cori finishes cat start sword. (forge in 45 turns will build a mine on FH)
Olly starts barracks
Whip spear in Besh
Elephant takes out Chariot, move Keshiks towards battle.

Turn 5

Keshik take out Chariot
Troop deployment
Only one sword near Olmec
No techs yet from Internet

Turn 6

Cuzco finishes cat start barracks
WB finished in Kara now can work clams again.
Move spear to Olmec
Roosevelt now coming with 4 WE/1cat/1 HA
Get some troops in Olmec and cats will be there soon.

Turn 7

Izzy asks to trade incense for dyes and accept.
Machu out of revolt we have horses now.
Whip elephant in Kara as sword is approaching our iron
Use cat on Roosevelt stack and he withdraws and damages his units.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/cosmichail/Civ4ScreenShot0401.jpg

Turn 8

We meet Lizzy and she is annoyed with us. Bonus though as we grab some new techs that will help with our war with Roosevelt.
We discover Machinery and Civil Service. Don’t revolt to bureaucracy since we need vassalage right now. Keshik takes out sword threatening our iron.
Suicide cat to weaken stack which gets bigger.
Whip forge in Olmec.
Kara finishes Elephant
Elephant going after Besh move longbow into city.
Upgrade sword in Olmec to mace/ Upgrade swords/axes to maces.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/cosmichail/Civ4ScreenShot0402.jpg

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/cosmichail/Civ4ScreenShot0403.jpg

Turn 9

Checked graph and we are still last in power.
We loose a Keshik.
Build Sugar plantation and workers go to work iron now in cultural borders
Loose two lbm’s against Roosevelts stack.

Turn 10

Suicide another cat to weaken stack but I think we are going to loose Olmec.
Tiwan finishes cat start WE.
Olly finishes cat start lbm
Whip forge in Besh

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/cosmichail/Civ4ScreenShot0404.jpg

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/cosmichail/Civ4ScreenShot0405.jpg

Turn 11

We loose Olmec. Our highly upgraded maces are getting nearby.
(After all that whipping pop was only 3 and now dropped to 2)
We discover compass.
Mace takes out HA at Besh

Turn 12

Spear takes out HA
Mace takes out HA

Turn 13

Mace takes out HA

Turn 14

Spear takes out HA
HA/Swords heading for Kara
Many of maces are in position and ready to counterattack soon.

Turn 15

Kara builds HE start spear
We discover optics.
HA attacks our mace and looses
Mace attacks swords and wins
Spear takes out chariot after he pillages farm at Besh
Mace takes out sword

Roosevelt’s attacks are diminishing and after we get some maces we will need more cats to counterattack to take Olmec back. Also if we could get a Keshik (need to build some) to pillage Roosevelt’s horses as his HA’s are a real pest but I have been countering with spears a lot. I did more whipping than indicated but thought I was finished at turn 10 so I made sure I whipped a mace/lbm/spear/forge I think but forgot to write it down. I was ready to do my report but realized we were doing 15 turns. I did prefer that, rather than leave a big stack ready to attack just on someone else’s turn.
The shortlist I wrote earlier is mostly complete.

I couldn’t scout Toku since I was busy with keeping Roosevelt at bay. Could not get mines built in Olmec too many HA’s running around and I didn’t want to loose any workers. We did gain two workers on taking Huamanga.

Karakorum will be able to pump out units fast now. Although I was tempted to put a unit up to build (I only had one turn in when I realized we were going to loose Olmec) it would not have made a difference in saving Olmec. His stack was too big and he had a lot of cats as you will see from the picture. He doesn’t have maces yet so we should be able to do him some damage now. He seems to be going after Besh right now and we do have enough in there but there is a sword/cat/elephant on the way there so maybe reinforce it a bit more.

EDIT: I did try to get Alex involved but had nothing to offer him. He will go to war but we have no techs to bribe him with. Lizzy is a buddhist so that makes two of them. We are in good with Izzy and Alex right now. I hope Monty doesn't attack we aren't ready for it. Once Kara grows a bit again (5 now) we should have even better production and able to pump out cats/maces/elephants pretty quick. I built a lot of spears (some lost in Olmec battle) as they build quicker than WE and needed to counter his HA's.

sooooo - Hacking into the net for some more techs
mike p - quotes Rumsfeld (would that be good ole Donald, Princeton grad)
ruff_hi - Nicely organized reporting system
Cosmichail - just played - Wish Lord Vader could help out
blid - UP - playing with Amazons and good tactical call on Roosevelt
Asperger - on deck - Wants that HE and he got it good buddy

Re: HE
(I was sweating it though when some of his troops got close by Kara but they are dead I tells you dead.)

Ok now time for some beer and recreation.:smoke:

I couldn’t scout Toku since I was busy with keeping Roosevelt at bay.This is the second mention of Toku ... are we playing the same game because I cannot see any Japan on the list of civs - we aren't Japanese are we? :crazyeye: We met the last civ (Liz) during the last rounds.

Wow, Blid was correct. Looks like a difficult turnset to play - I think you did well to only lose one city with the size of that stack.

FDR needs a good pounding after that manouever. Seriously, who attacks when our troops are busy at the other end of the continent? Oh, er, I guess we do. But no one backstabs the backstabers and gets away with it - Blid is up to counterattack.

@Ruff: The last AI was Liz, not Toku. I thought it would be Toku because we hadn't found the civ yet.

Cottages - not a priority. We are building 2 and look to have just built 2. Instead we need farms. Gotta grow our cities.

@Ruff
In hindsight I realized too that there Toku wasn't there but just following what Sooooo said.

@Sooooo
I couldn't build farms at Kara but we should be able to now with CS.
(probably need to chain irrigate)

The other city (Tiwanaku) has three great food sources corn, sugar and floodplains, when I noticed our wealth diminishing I thought putting some cottages there might help that. I spent a lot of money upgrading to keep up with Roosevelts attacks. Right now Tiwan is working the corn and rest is production tiles but will grow in 1 turn and maybe work the sugar/ or floodplain with the new citizen.

We have ample workers to change it and at least we are poor now so we won't get extorted by AI.

The workers are needed in Besh since we lost that farm, but troops seem to be coming from Izzy's land who is friendly with him and will need some cover when they rebuild that farm. He is mostly attacking with HA's and not sure how much he has in Olmec but probably lots and could threaten Kara.

Oh man, war turns are slow

All the cities are going to build mainly units, so I won't mention every build. I'll mention if some city starts some non military build though



Turn 0 : a bit of MM to claim unused tiles from neighbour cities. HC made a mess of ovrelapping cities and the auto governor makes a very poor work of affecting tiles between overlapping cities.
Damn those deity AIs, they build settlers like they were warriors and then don't know what to do with them

There is only one land passage for aztecs and now it is american, so the only way for Monty to declare war now is by sea

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/blidblid/S-03/turnSet2/02-WaterSeparation.jpg


This mace should not wander by himself next to amercian borders. This is super unit we should preserve. I didn't know we had level 5 unit already :eek:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/blidblid/S-03/turnSet2/01-Level5Unit.jpg



Turn 1 : amercian HA goes straight for a worker near Tiwanaku and kills him. There is only an axe near by and a longbow in the city. I send the other workers away and upgrade the axe to mace

Kara finishes a spear and starts cat, it would focus on them for a while. They would take about 1-2 turns each

I send the level 5 unit back with a healing stack of maces

The HA who wandered into incan lands is now surrounded

Then Dr Watson pays a visit. Civ is still working so I save the game and restart my machine. Now Internet is not working. Damn it. Continue, will post tomorrow from work

Turn 2 : the HA destroyed a sugar plantation. The mace killed him. There are 4 maces at the door of Olmec (in a forest of course). There are nearly no units with defense bonuses there

Turn 3 : Al hacks records about a guy named Bach (we discover music)
Roos suicides a HA against one of the maces near Olmec.
He is also wandering with a sword inside our lands, on flat ground. 98% odds for our mace
I send two attacks against Olmec and kill 2 phants. I keep a mace at full health to defend in the forest.
Roos is sending small stacks to Besh

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/blidblid/S-03/turnSet2/03-AroundBesh.jpg


To deal with the eastern HA clearly heading for the cows, I take the spear from Kara

Turn 4 :
Hinduism spreads in Huamanga
I kill the HA heading for the cows
I kill 2 other phants in Olmec and a medic cat joins the band there hidden in forest. Roos really should think of bringing some defensive units in this city. Only HA and cats are remaining there (and an axe but he is mince meat for maces)

I asked Alex to go to war with Roos but he won't

Turn 5 :
Liz adopts bureaucracy.
I kill one HA near Besh (he really should have stayed with the stack). Kill also an HA in Olmec. The campaign is slow but steady there (well, reinforcements are coming, so patience please)

Turn 6 : Roos starts bombarding Besh with 2 cats. He won't attack yet
He finally sends a longbow to Olmec and frees the HA to go pillage our lands
There is also a stack of 4 cats heading our way. Just how fast can this bastard build units ?

Turn 7 : Only killed the former "Olmecian" HA (what do we call Olmec citizens anyway)
The longbowman in Olmec is now City Garrison I, should have killed him on first chance :wallbash:
I start a caravel in Macchu Picchu as we know nearly nothing of the world
Start chaining irrigation in Ollantaytambo and Macchu Picchu

Turn 8 :
The cats stack is now in Olmec

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/blidblid/S-03/turnSet2/04-Olmec.jpg


I attack first to avoid the collateral damage. I leave the city with only 1 cat. Don't want to take it while I can't defend it well. Should take it next turn. Also, this will make Roos send his new units here rather than Besh. Talking about Besh, a cat attacked there and withdrawed :mad:

We are only making +10 at 0% slider :eek:

I am astonished to see this :

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/blidblid/S-03/turnSet2/05-PeacePlease.jpg


Roos is already willing to pay for peace. I guess he lost so many units that he is facing heavy war weariness.
I read in an article about war weariness that the units killed contribute to WW when they die in an enemy culturally controlled area, independent of who owns the city. I guess all the units Roos lost in Olmec counted that way

Turn 9 : Now 2 of Roos cats attack at Besh and both withdraw. It is starting to get on my nerves.
I take down Olmec bringing a mace to level 4 and we get back all the culture :cool:. There is still a forge in the city. I start a granary
And great news : Monty declares on Roos. With the mutual struggle boni, we should be safe now short of backstabbing from Izzy

Turn 10 : finally HA attacks at Besh. He dies. One of the cats is getting back to america
I kill the remaining sword and cat.

Our units are now on the move for america

Turn 11 : Roos comes this time with a 740 gold offer to sign peace. Seems like he is panicking. What kind of fool he thinks I am. Maybe if you give up all your cities but one, I should consider signing peace

I start a granary in both Cuzco and huamanga. Al gets serious about hacking and gives us a very useful tech during war times : engineering. Now reinforcements can gather faster. Wish I had it earlier in my turnset

Turn 12 :
Kara starts a mace now after a series of 7-8 cats
It is Tiwanaku and Ollan turn to start granaries. If Monty didn't declare on Roos, I think I would not have started all those granaries but in this situation, I guess we have enough troops to take the first cities and only a few cities should keep on military duty to bring the necessary reinforcements

Turn 13 :
Moving troops

Turn 14 : Roos sends an HA to Besh. Thought he couldn't afford more WW ? Anyway, a spear cares about him
Macchu picchu finishes caravel and starts a worker. We are still lacking hands
Finally discover an amercian city, Atlanta. There's our main stack

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/blidblid/S-03/turnSet2/06-Stack.jpg


Turn 15 : Roos attacked the stack near Atlanta with reinforcements from somewhere else. He did again had luck with 2 withdrawing cats. Breath heavily, what is this mantra I should be repeating ? It is really time about I hand over this game.
At least Roos suicided a mace, a WE and a HA

I kill all but one cat in Atlanta. Again, I don't take the city. If Roos has spare units, he will send them inside city for our CR maces to rape.

I think I did not loose a single unit. But then again I mainly defended and only took back Olmec. We are even at 0% slider. Some units really should die for the mongolian glory (that's the official reason, reality is they are costing too much money)
Apart from the stack above, there is another one coming from east. That should be enough to hurt Roos badly

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/blidblid/S-03/turnSet2/07-SecondStack.jpg


I did not do any whipping, cities were struggling to grow and we don't have granaries so whipping ain't effective. And we are slightly more powerful than Roos

Care to kill some yankees ?

As you should have guessed, It is not yet tomorrow in France and Internet is working again ;)

200AD save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/82148/1156283117.civ4savedgame)

Blid, you are truely a master :goodjob:.

I've no idea how you mustered an army to do all that - when I looked at the save we had about 4 macemen. Seriously, that was a great turnset.

Waiting outside cities instead of taking them, hoping the silly AI will reinforce it rather than counterattack is a very good tactic when you have more city raider units than city garrisson. Maybe a tiny bit cheesey, but if it is then it's nice french cheese.

Asperger is up inflict some righteous retribution on america.

sooooo - On Deck
mike p
ruff_hi
Cosmichail
blid - Just Played
Asperger - UP

If people find their turns taking a long time or for any other reason then feel free to just play 10 turns or whatever.

It is really time about I hand over this game.

Got it! I'll make a few longbows i guess...

I've had a look at the save and one question for Blid: aren't you afraid Monty will take Atlanta in the turn between? We can't see if he's nearby...

You are right, I didn't think about this but now that you mention it, Monty may have some HA who would take Atlanta IBT. I already was fooled this way in SPs, it just seems like I don't learn from previous mistakes.
If this happens, then curse me all you want

Don't bother, you did have an excellent turnset.
There are two units with movementpoints so they can still take the city.

Previeuw:

Issa must have culturebombed Minoan (city nw of our empire), it almost takes away our copper.
Our HE-city suddenly has 2 cottages ? Makes no sense.
We need much more workers.
We have most land of everybody, but only 40% of the population Monty has....,very good Blid making granaries everywhere.
Monty's powergraph is frightening. Elizabeth is outresearching everybody.
A horse-unit would be handy in our stack, to kill a last remaining enemy and jump back.

Action:

0 - 200AD
Longbow moves to foresthill to take a look at forces in New York. Not frightening.
Spearman takes Atlanta to prevent Monty from taking it . Wounded Warelephant goes with him. Previous turn Blid got a stackattack from the americans, so hopefully they keep quiet this turn. Outside Atlanta another american catapult. We can handle this but will there come more from out of the dark?

IB
Catapult kills our Warelephant, quiet further. Atlanta is save.

1 - 215 AD
Move rest of the stack into Atlanta, then see an aztec horsearcher going to pillage the horses;)
Karakorum > crossbowman

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/4669/civ4montyhorsearcherra5.jpg

Issa gives us kindly 130 gold, Alex refuses to give us his 300.
Caravel goes for the circumnavigationcompetition.

2 - 230 AD
Scouting maceman reveals Philadelphia has been taken by the Aztecs.
Issa is willing to declare on Elizabeth, that's nice.
I guess Monty never wants to talk to us again...

3 - 245 AD
Shakespeare teaches us we are only (civ)players (Drama).
Beshalik and Karakorum > granary,
Caravel discovers english territory,
Cuzco and Tiwanaku > workers,
Our stack in Atlanta still healing,

4 - 260 AD
Machu Picchu > worker,
We are losing 10 gold/turn! > sell Issa stone for 8/t,
Elizabeth already has guils, philosophie and paper !

5 - 275 AD
Computer goes wild. Weird graphics. Have to play previous turn again.AutoSaveInterval 4 > 1.
Send healed troops to New York. Also little stack from Beshalik to NY.

6 - 290 AD
Stack before NY.

IB
Two american cats die attacking my maces, one elephant dies to pike, second elephant kills a mace.

7 - 305 AD
Bombard NY,
silk to Elizabeth for 8/t, WM for 140 gold (she did have 170).
Now typing this i realize this is a mistake.
Surprise Surprise Monty wants to talk again...

8 - 320 AD
"Elizabeth is first to circumnavigate the world."
Thanks to my worldmap :mad:

Battle of New York
3 cats bombard it to zero defense,
Cat (7%) dies to longbow,
Mace (94%) kills same longbow,
Mace (97%) kills warelephant,
Mace (100%) kills pike,
Mace (100%) kills catapult,
New York is ours!

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/578/civ4newyorkkn8.jpg

Whip forge in Atlanta (out of revolt),
Beshalik > theatre to fight Spanish culture.

9 - 335 AD
Atlanta > barracks,
Stack moving to Washington.

Only a few lose american maces/warelephants are annoying me but get easily killed.

10 - 350 AD
Philosophy comes in,
Cats bombard Washington to zero defence,
Beshalik > hindu temple (culture),
Research set on Astronomy (5070 turns),

11 - 365 AD
Battle of Washington (on a hill)
One cat suicides, other retreats,
Mace (95%) kills longbow,
Mace (84%) kills maceman,
Cat (97%) kills longbow,
Mace (?) kills cat,
Washington is ours!

Send maceman to hill to scout the surroundings and he discovers Chicago:

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/7459/civ4chicagofa6.jpg

What to do with Chicago? It's the only american city nearby. It's only 57% american, so it must be already 43% Spanish. I'm going to destroy it, there are three workers in it.

Alex is friendly but still doesn't wanna give me anything. Maybe i ask to much. Should i ask only for the 110 gold or only for the WM?
Issa gives us 80 gold. We are not losing money anymore.

12 - 380 AD
Guilds comes in.

13 - 395 AD
Elizabeth discovers Liberalism (we don't even have education...),
National Epic requiers library... We can use great engineers or great merchants or an golden age....

14 - 410 AD
Battle of Chicago
Mace (2x) and a crossbow easily killing the defenders.

We pillage 107 gold and raze Chicago and take three workers who i send to Beshalik.

Time to make peace. Once Roosevelt did have 800 gold, there are 200 left but... he has a nice Worldmap for us. He has two city's left.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/9113/civ4peaceroosevelthp9.jpg

Cancel stone deal with Issa, at least in Olmec i want to have a wall.

15 - 425 AD
Roos has one city left, on an island he shares with Elizabeth.
Pillage area of former Chicago.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/976/civ4montyspowerfq9.jpg

I only made three military units in my turns ( and lost three iirc).

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/3348/civ4ourworldlm3.jpg

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/63149/1156353916.civ4savedgame

Well done Asperger :goodjob: you saved Atlanta and cleansed the continent from Roos presence

That is about 2 of them AIs gone. Now I see 2 threats. Monty power and Liz research. Internet needs 2 civs to give the tech. A runaway england is no good. What the hell is Alex doing, he should have declared on those heathen buddhists centuries ago

I guess we can handle Monty with 1-2 figures but we should try and improve those cities a bit before. We can't afford more land right now or our units would go on strike

I played some builder turns. I mainly focussed on population growth and farms. Looking at that last screenshot from Asperger, our cities are much smaller than our rivals'. I stopped cottage builds, and spread irrigation. I worked farms and mines rather than cottages. Yes we are losing money at 0%, but that's not a problem yet until we get to 0 gold. If we get that low we can just rework the cottages or whip some banks/courthouses- not a problem. For now we need growth and production. I slipped 2 workers into the queue to help with this, at Machu Pichu and Cori.

Notable dates:

420 AD: Izzy build the Hagia Sophia

530 AD: We get banking. Don't revolt to mercantilism as it would destroy our economy. We get a great engineer, so I move him to Kara and put him to sleep. We may use him on West Point. Izzy goes to mercantilism and this makes us lose about 10 GPT - damn her.

A view of one of Monty's cities:

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4504/texaccomb6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

560 AD: Alex builds Notre Dame. What the hell is he building that for instead of a million knights to destroy Lizzy?

575 AD: We get Theology at last and revolt to Theocracy.

605 AD: Izzy builds Versailles

635 AD: We get Education.

All of our cities now have (or are building) a granary, forge and barracks. I also built quite a lot of troops - we now have comparable power to Lizzy, Alex and Izzy. Monty is still off the scale though.

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/8877/power650adzc2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

We are top of the production graph but Lizzy has double the GNP of the second place civ. She has free religion now by the way. I did not whip anything as I feel it is essential to grow. A screenshot showing our city sizes now:

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/9337/empire650adio4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

We've got to formulate a plan. Ideally I would want to attack Lizzy now, before she gets Redcoats (she doesn't have printing press yet). But that's very risky with an annoyed Monty next door. We can't do that. I reckon we have to deal with Monty before we can sort out anything else. I'm thinking that we have to declare on him pretty soon - possibly in the next turnset. It's going to be a painful war - but he's a timebomb waiting to go off and the sooner we deal with him the sooner we can plan what to do about the runaway AI. We should also slip in some theatres until we get 6 and then build globe theatre in a high food city for when we get nationhood and gunpowder. I think we have enough workers now.

Mike is up! Roster:

sooooo - Just Played
mike p - UP
ruff_hi - On Deck
Cosmichail
blid
Asperger

And the save:

I have to say that my round hurt us population wise. I really didn't have much choice as if I hadn't whipped some soldiers Roosy would have gotten Besh and Kara. I am not a fan of whipping although my evil avatar would make you think otherwise. In principle I am against slavery period and think it's ethically wrong. I know this is a game but in SP I do put forth that idealogy. (don't mind razing religious cities but that's a whole different idealogy and probably controversial)

What I do find in SG's is that most players will leave 1 or 2 defenders and that's it. To me this is fine and dandy for the most part but playing at this level we should have better defenses. When Roosy came at me constantly and eventually with a large stack I had very little in the way of defenses to deal with him. Perhaps a lesson can be learned here that we better defend our cities bordering with our neighbours that aren't so trust worthy. In my SP's my cities are always well defended especially at the bordering cities.

Also trying to get the HE built didn't help but I felt that in the long run it would aid the next player to getting an army up and running much faster. As to the cottages at Kara it was a mistake but the grassland west of Kara could only build a cottage at the time. I couldn't do much with the workers since we were being attacked at Besh/Kara and Olmec. So I tried to keep them out of harms way. I agree that Monty should be next and why don't we just load up the cities where is he near and let him wear himself out until we can move to start taking him out. Something tells me though that he will attack so hard that no defense will hold. So some thought would have to put into that before we proceed.

BTW Blid that strategy of leaving one soldier in a city to be conquered is something I do in my SP's all the time to let the AI waste his army.

It looks like I'll be going away this weekend and I have a couple of other SGs to play tomorrow. (And I still need to finish the regular GoTM too - not that I've had a fabulous start.) If ruff is ready, it's fine to skip me. There's an outside chance I'll be able to get this in before Friday night, but if you can play sooner, just post a got it.

Sorry.

No problem mike. If we declare war soon, one thing we need to do beforehand is chop the two jungles south of Olmec as we don't want to give attacking stacks more cover against our catapults.

Mike, do you think you will be able to pick it up before you go away or do you want a skip? Ruff, what's your status?

I will be able to play tonight - internet access permitting. I am away at a dog show over the week end and there are typically some spare afternoons, mornings, etc.

Well, generally a fairly dull round - city growth, started a few theatres and also courthouses (we will be needing $ soon to upgrade our units to cannons and riflemen), workers clearing jungle, starting farms and a few mines. I stopped at an odd number because NATIONALISM had just been discovered and we have an GP engineer that will rush The Taj Mahal. I thought I would throw it open to the group to decide if we kick of a Golden Age or not.

I looked around for a health trade (health is an issue, happiness is not) and couldn't find any. I also tested the waters re attacking Lizzie and no-one was interested. Monty 'asked' us for our map ... Monty wouldn't even consider attacking Lizzie ... "We have enough on our hands at the moment". This generally means he is gearing up for an attack - I wonder who against?

On the tech front, we learnt economics (and swapped to free economey) and gunpowder. The downside is that I still haven't had the option of selecting a tech to research!


Turn 210 (650 AD)
Ruff_Hi: testing
Ruff_Hi: no one will war with lizzie
Cori finishes: Lighthouse
Ollantaytambo grows: 7
Huamanga grows: 6

IBT:

Turn 211 (665 AD)
Cori begins: Theatre
Karakorum finishes: War Elephant
Machu Picchu grows: 8
Huamanga's borders expand
New York grows: 5

IBT:

Turn 212 (680 AD)
Karakorum begins: Theatre
Beshbalik finishes: Knight
Olmec finishes: War Elephant

IBT:

Turn 213 (695 AD)
Beshbalik begins: Catapult
Olmec begins: Catapult
Karakorum finishes: Theatre
Olmec grows: 10
Tiwanaku grows: 10
Atlanta finishes: Pikeman
New York finishes: Granary

IBT:
Tech learned: Economics
Tech learned: Gunpowder

Turn 214 (710 AD)
Karakorum begins: Knight
Atlanta begins: Courthouse

IBT:

Turn 215 (725 AD)
Cori grows: 7
Cuzco grows: 9
Atlanta grows: 8

IBT:

Turn 216 (740 AD)
Karakorum grows: 10
Beshbalik finishes: Catapult
Tiwanaku finishes: Knight
New York finishes: Barracks

IBT:

Turn 217 (755 AD)
Beshbalik begins: Courthouse
Tiwanaku begins: Courthouse
New York begins: Courthouse
Karakorum finishes: Knight
Beshbalik grows: 7
Cori finishes: Theatre
Washington grows: 9

IBT:

Turn 218 (770 AD)
Karakorum begins: Courthouse
Cori begins: Catapult
Olmec grows: 11
Olmec finishes: Catapult
Tiwanaku finishes: Courthouse
Cuzco finishes: Forge
Washington finishes: Courthouse

IBT:
Tech learned: Nationalism

Turn 219 (785 AD)
Olmec begins: Theatre
Tiwanaku begins: Theatre
Cuzco begins: Theatre
Washington begins: Maceman
Karakorum begins: The Taj Mahal


Care to Rush the Taj Mahal? (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/64034/1156558687.civ4savedgame)

Sorry about the lack of action and screenshots - got to bath the dog (see left) for his big day in the ring tomorrow.

I think Monty "has enough on his hands" because he's already at war with america. As for Alex, I missed it first time but it seems like he don't share land borders with England. there's sea tiles between them. We'd better try to start a female war (Izzy vs Lizzy) if we can afford enough money for it. Too bad Liz adopted free religion already

Taj Mahal seems good. We can also try Versailles but our capital is already in the centre of the empire and Islam (divine right) was founded like 500 years ago and we still don't know it

There's a small landbridge between Lizzy and Alex. I want war otherwise i get bored :) . We can take Izzy on our own, certainly when we get a golden age too.The chance we get Monty on our side is much bigger imo than that he would declare on us.

Taj sounds good to me too. But before it is built I think we should swap to Nationhood (saves 19 gpt), and we have to wait 1 turn until we can do that. Also, we can build
globe theatre next turn - I think Tiwanaku. Besh can probably change its courthouse build because it would only save 3 gpt and Cuzco could do with a bank rather than a theatre.

Cosmichail is up. Before he plays we need to decide what to do. We probably have to declare on someone next turnset - Izzy or Monty?

EDIT: Or, as Mike is back, that makes him up. Either way we need to decide who to attack.

Alex won't go against Liz. He says he has nothing to gain. That's because they don't share land borders.
If we go against Izzy, who would slow down Liz mad tech pace ?
Personally, I say kill Monty

I'm not too excited about taking on Izzy when her UU is dominant, especially with Monty at our backs. He's a peace treaty with Roosevelt away from looking for a new target, and we're the only one he can reach. I think Monty needs to go first instead.

Right away Monty asks us to redeclare on America. Their last city is on the only island on the map and Monty won't be reaching there for a long time. I figure we may as well get some more mutual struggle bonus with Monty.

So I decide to use the GE for the Taj and a Golden Age, and build up troops. I remain in Vassalage for now, since we're going to be pushing out primarily troops in the GA. Noticing that the Copper by Beshbalik is only 50% our culture, I decide to build the Taj there instead of the capital. It's going to take an extra turn, since the Engineer provides less hammers in a smaller city, but so what.

So I completed the Taj, we discovered Printing Press, Replaceable Parts, Constitution, Corporation, and on my second to last turn, we discover Chemisty. Globe Theater is nearly done in Olmec. There's cows and bananas and plenty of grassland, so this can become our drafting center.

Alex converted to Confucianism, so he's no longer Friendly.

We were second in power until Liz upgraded to Redcoats, but we're closing the gap with Monty. I revolted to Nationhood after the Golden Age ended. I stopped one turn prior to the scheduled end of my turnset because it's time for war. We need to decide who to declare on, which units to upgrade (we have 2160 gold in the treasury), and start positioning troops.

Not sure who else has Chemistry, but I don't see any Grenadiers in Spain. With Grens, we finally have a decent counter to Conquistadors, so war with Izzy is a lot more feasible. On the other hand, eliminating Monty is probably a better move long term.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/56599/1156613471.jpg
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/56599/1156613428.civ4savedgame

can't download the save, get a error by telefragged...

Try it again. It looks like the link got truncated somehow when I cut and pasted.

Wow, that's a healthy army in Atlanta :). I still say we should declare on Monty. As I said before an annoyed Monty at your borders is a timebomb and we should diffuse it now. Calix can probably be razed. Izzy is friendly so we only need a minimum garisson in our western cities (1 unit each) and can unload our full power onto Monty. If we attacked Izzy we would have to leave a sizeable force near to Azteca. Most of our cities are well above the hapiness limit so we can draft some muskets from high-food cities.

Let's upgrade our maces to grenadiers (promote to city raider first). Also, we will need some caravels and pikes on our east coast because monty had a huge stack of knights in galleys in Texcoco.

sooooo
mike p
ruff_hi
Cosmichail - UP
blid - On Deck
Asperger

I won't be able to get to this until tomorrow evening late Eastern daylight saving time. I also want to study the save closely before I start to ensure I understand what needs to be done. I do understand the need to go after Monty soon and will work to that goal. I just finished work and have an exam tomorrow so need to study tonight. Hope that's ok.

No problem Cosmichail - good luck in your exam :)

we should swap to Nationhood (saves 19 gpt)

I know it's already done but vassalage gives +15 unitsupport. Probably we can use the extra :) from the barracks when in war.

Finance looks finally good. Olmecs is nicely cleaned from jungle. Let's repeat the Roosvelt war: Cosmichael takes the hard part, Blid does the recovery and i mob it all up.

Good point, I always forget that. The GPT saving was more of a secondary bonus though - the ability to draft muskets and soon rifles was why I wanted nationhood.

Cosmichael takes the hard part, Blid does the recovery and i mob it all up.

:lol: poor Cosmichail. Just play 10 turns if you feel you're getting bogged down.

Sorry I didn't get to playing it last night but will do it later today. I got home and fell asleep and woke up at 2am. Just worn out I guess. Sounds like I got my work cut out for me so maybe the rest is a good thing. Dreamt about an airliner crashing yuk...

Will get to this in about 8 hours.

Playing now and will post later today. Read everybody's posts carefully. Starting by upgrading the maces (first promoting to CR) to Grens.

T0

Upgrade all maces (CR first) to Grenadiers.

T1

Tiwanaku finish cat start gren
Atlanta finish cat start rifle
NYC finish cat start cat

We discover Rifling

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/cosmichail/Civ4ScreenShot0431.jpg

T2

Washington finishes knight start rifle
Troop deployment

T3

Kara finishes Gren start rifle
Cuzco finishes Bank start Caravel (to protect eastern shores)

T4

Whip Globe theater (2 pop grows back quick)

T5

Olmec finishes Globe start rifle
Olly finishes knight start rifle
Marchu finishes knight start rifle
NYC finishes cat start rifle

Declare war on Monty as we have caravels now protecting eastern shore and Olmec can start drafting soldiers.

T6

Kara finishes rifle start caravel to aid protecting shores
Cori finishes Gren start cat
Take out 2 galleys near Kara
Knight takes out mace
Knight takes out CB
Knight takes out Cat
Gren takes out musket
Gren takes out CB
Gren takes out pike
Knight takes out cat
Troop deployment
Monty starts off lite but expect more

T7

We loose 2 knights
Again lite response 1 pike and 2 knights
Cat attacks our stack
Pike looses to knight (96% in our favor)
Pike takes out knight
Move troops to take out Calix

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/cosmichail/Civ4ScreenShot0434.jpg

T8

Many knights attack our stack at Calix and hold out well.
Kara finishes Caravel start rifle
Cuzco finishes Caravel start rifle
Stacks are wounded – Monty now hitting harder

T9

Tiwan finishes rifle start knight
Monty attacks with many knights
Stack is badly wounded but still holding out
Move the stack to a more defensive position (back to forest) to heal.
His power is dropping

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/cosmichail/Civ4ScreenShot0435.jpg

T10

Kara finishes rifle start rifle
Washington finishes rifle start rifle

T11

Monty arrives with 2 stacks
Take out 1 stack and wound the other as well as three of them.
Rifles approaching to assist. Stack healing near Calix
(I do draft regularly from Olmec but forget to write it down)

T12

Take out numerous soldiers can now advance again.

T13

Kara finishes rifle start rifle
Olly finishes Cat start cat
Atlanta finishes rifle start cat
Cori finishes cat start cat

We discover Liberalism
Monty starts a golden age.
Reinforcements are arriving at Calix stack to advance.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/cosmichail/Civ4ScreenShot0436.jpg

T14

Machu finishes rifle start knight
We take philly which held 6 lbms and 1 pike/cat
Stack in position at Calix after healing.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/cosmichail/Civ4ScreenShot0437.jpg

T15

Monty attacks stack at Calix and philly but looses all soldiers
NYC finishes rifle start cat
We attack Calix and raze it.
Many wounded soldiers in that stack and need to heal.

Monty power has dropped substantially

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/cosmichail/Civ4ScreenShot0438.jpg

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/cosmichail/Civ4ScreenShot0439.jpg

BTW when I first approached Monty he was no longer annoyed but cautious with us.

Of course you will notice that Lizzy and Izzy are getting very strong.
I did not revolt to free religion as I didn't want to loose a turn in the middle of battle.
Also started to get some unhappy cities so move culture slider up to 10% in the last turn so that can be vetoed.


The Save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/90198/Hackers AD-1154.Civ4SavedGame)


sooooo - Our fearless leader
mike p -
ruff_hi
Cosmichail - just played - started the war
blid - UP - recovery man
Asperger - on deck - mopping it up

T14

Machu finishes rifle start knight
We take philly which held 6 lbms and 1 pike/cat
Stack in position at Calix after healing.
I initially read this as "6ICBMs" - that was a bit scary!

Looks like there's nothing to recover for Blid. he may start the mopping.
Monty was ahead in quantity, but behind in quality of army (as always).
Don't think we should switch to free religion. The extra promotion that theocratie gives is much more important imo.
Maybe Blid can make a few galley's in the east to fasten the cleaning.

Great job Cos. like Asperger said, it doesn't feel much like recovery this time
Will get to this tomorrow night

Very nice work Cosmichail. Now you can get some sleep!

Izzy has gone to free religion :eek:. Don't think I've ever seen that before. I think more of our cities should be saying "NO! We won't go!".

Boy did I sleep (13 hours) but feel much better and I have to say how much I enjoy playing with this team. This is more fun that the SGOTM02 for me and just love taking on Monty. Will be interesting to see how we deal with Lizzy and Bella down the road. You're right guys "what recovery" and Asperger analysis is correct Monty didn't have the quality but just quantity. He must have lost 15 knights on the stack at Calix. I was thinking that maybe what Soooo mentioned he might drop those knights on us on our eastern shores but decided to go after our stacks instead.

That's a first for me too to see Bella go to free religion. I agree with Asperger we should stay on theocracy as those promotions make a big difference.

Yep those cities should be saying that but I didn't draft that much as we have plenty of soldiers and just was dealing with Monty's onslaught but that's almost over and we should be able to advance more freely now. We have quite a stack in Philly too so we can start doing a lot more damage now.

Sorry guys I was kind of busy tonight and only managed to play 7 turns. Will finish this tomorrow.
Monty has rifles now and is showing resistance but his counter attacks are getting very thin along the turns. And more important, his golden age is just finished (I forgot that but it explains why he was churning units like mad)

WW is huge :eek:

IHT : replace gems to copper trade with Izzy with a (gems +11g) for copper
I take Alex extra 1gpt too by renogtiating a deal

Draft three units

Whip washington as they are braggin some nonsense about their home motherland.

IBT : an aztec caravel kills our caravel
Monty upgrades his units to rifles.
rifles war in the 1100 ADs is fearsome. Don't want to mess with standard deity games

Turn 1 : Another round of drafting (only two this time)

Kill an aztec knight near borders

The stack who took Cali is brought back into cultural borders to heal in forest

The stack in Philly needs another turn to heal

IBT : we get sci mthod

Turn 2 : I am going to concentrate on grenadiers now until steel comes in
Move stack from Philly. Upgrade some pikes to grenadiers (we have very nice pikes BTW at combat III)


IBT : I really thought I'd loose Philly. Monty attacked it with a cat then with some knights out of the blue and finally with 2 rifles. There's only a cat and a wounded grenadier in there by the end. We would have took it back next turn easily but I hate loosing cities back to AI as it is a silly way to increase WW

Turn 3 : revenge killing all the units involved in Philly attack and still living. Start moving the healed guys from the eastern stack

Talk about an easy pillage mission :

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/blidblid/S-03/turnSet3/01-EasyPillaging.jpg

Drafting, whipping where there's crap tiles used or angriness pointing out.

Texcoco is hiding the defenders number with caravels.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/blidblid/S-03/turnSet3/02-TexcocoFirstClash.jpg


Well, he can't know how many units we have either and we don't have no loosy caravels just good enough to sink. Man, I miss civ 3 sinking ships and exploding planes in captured cities


IBT :
aztec knight (ak) kills cat, this is no fair fight

Turn 4 : a rifle kills ak, this is no fair fight
Troops advancing

IBT : the stack at Texcoco gets a serious beating. We loose about 4 grenies and what annoys me the most is that 3 of them were lost with 70% odds for our favour. Oh well, I am not sure to go after this city right now. Will be waiting in hill until reinforcements come since Monty seems to counter attack only at this side. Philly gets attacked too. Monty is still building a good bunch of units it seems

Turn 5 : Kill attackers at Philly
Bombard Texcoco to 0

IBT : Texcoco stack gets attacked again and we loose one grenie. Monty losses are far more important
The eastern stack gets a cat attack causing little collateral damage.
Monty attacks again with caravel and wins.


Turn 6 : kill aztec wounded caravel.
Philly is now completely secure since a lot of rifles are there
WW is at 12 in capital. Nasty

The eastern stack is near Teotihuacan

My reinforcements are not next to Texcoco yet but some rifles are wounded there, they will get promotions next turn and they have killed our units. I have a lot of cats so I decide to attack now though I don't know how many units are there in city. This will reduce the huge amount of supply we are paying

I start with 2 barrage II cats. They don't scratch the rifles one bit but both withdraw :). Good collateral damage
Then 3 cats suicide and grenadiers kill three rifles. The remaining odds are too poor so I stop here

IBT : Monty golden age ends. Oh so he was on golden age. He may calm down from now on

Turn 7 :
Bombard
Get lux to 20% and start a colo at Kara

session 2 starts : eastern stack starts bombarding teoTihuacan

IBT :
Monty looses two knights. We loose 2 grenadiers. Texcoco war is really a bloody one. But 4 fresh rifles are finally there to protect the stack and let it heal. I don't think I'll take the city next turn though

Turn 8 :
Philly out of revolt and whipped a harbour. Nice trading routes we're getting there, that's for sure

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/blidblid/S-03/turnSet3/03-Philly.jpg


I finish bombarding Teo.. down to 0%. Suicide 2 cats (the garrison II rifle in unscratched)

Teotihuacan is down. 10 turns of revolt :eek:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/blidblid/S-03/turnSet3/04-TeoTihuacan.jpg


IBT : the fresh troops near Texcoco do their job. Monty suicides three knights and don't throw in any rifles.
He is completely ignoring the fact that teotihuacan has fallen and is sending units past it without even paying a look

Izzy demands 300 gold. I agree quickly. She is now pleased. Good thing. An attack from her and we're toast. Kara would probably fall and there's no way we can defend Beshbalik

We got divine right

Turn 9 :
philly next building after the whipped harbour is a theatre. Liz has put an annoying city down there so we may as well annoy her a bit with our overwhelming culture

Start moving troops to the aztec capital city and converge to Texcoco with the finally built grenadiers

IBT :
Monty suicides 4 knights and a rifle. Stack still holding. I guess he is using some forbidden cloning experiments. It just seems like he has an infinite number of knights converging on Texcoco

Turn 10 :
Colosseum finished in Kara. There's no more angry faces at 20% lux. Resume grenadiers factory

Drafting, whipping

Asked Izzy to declare on Lizzie but she won't return the favor (okay, my demand is a bit more expensive, but she did say we were friends when she got money)

IBT : We go rifle for rifle

Turn 11 :
Our troops get to the aztec capital. It is defended by 4 rifles and a knight
Texcoco gets another stack of reinforcements, this time with grenadiers. Texcoco, your time has come.

IBT : the knight in the capital comes attacking Texcoco stack. We get attacked by the knight parked at the horses tile too. I deduce that Monty is using his last breath

Turn 12 : Texcoco has 7 caravels and 7 galleys
Send 2 barrage II cats (one withdraws)
Send 2 CR II cats. Both die but both wound rifles (great)
Grenadiers start mop up at >90% odds : city is down. finally

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/blidb