It's a competition, to see who can dominate the most land in 4000 years.

If you feel so inclined, play from this start until 1AD. Post your save .

It is around Thursday in most of the world ,so around Monday next week I'll close the game and we can find the winner. Easy, it's the player with the highest % of land as specified in the victory screen at 1 AD.

Build:Civ4 Warlords
Level: Prince
Map:Continents. We (probably) won't see the other continent,but it makes the map familiar to many.
Leader: Cyrus
Variant: None this time, but ideas for future competitions could be 'no siege' or 'no melee'.
Speed: Normal

Please be honest and submit your first attempt.(it's only a game)

Feel free to comment on anything, but put any key information in a spoiler tab.

Tell some war stories or discuss your strat. It's a reasonable start position, hope for horses, and early war is a no brainer....or is it?


Heres the start.

(unzip the save to My games/SidCiv4/Warlords/saves/single)
If anyone can tell me how to upload these Warlords saves without zipping ,please do.

As far as I know you can't upload Warlords saves just yet. I've heard that changing their extention to .txt for example will work, but since zipping them works as well there's no need to use barbarian methods. ;)

As for the game, looks interesting. But I'm really worried that I might go crazy if I play it, since I'm currently going through my second game with Cyrus in Warlords (same settings as this one) and in neither one of my games I had early access to horses! Grrrrr... Once more and I'll be going in circles screaming "no immortals, no immortals!"... :twitch:

Or maybe third time's a charm?!

Count me in

It goes from 10 BC to 5AD. I hope 5AD is ok cause that is when I saved.

Here's the save.... I hope I am the winner. http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Domination_AD-0005.zip

@PeteJ,

Good luck with the win.

Iv'e been thinking all day whether to build the great wall to allow more troop production, or is this stupid?

Ok disaster.

We are the only civ on the continent, and because I locked assets , the save wont play for me. I think. Any way Petej your save doesnt play for me.

I think i have to abandon the original start and make a new one. There have bee n 2 views. PeteJ and one other. Im sorry to these 2 people. We have to start again.

See post one for the new set up.

should we go Vanilla?

PeteJ what do you think...?

Maybe one of the land based maps (Highlands, Great Plains)?

Maybe one of the land based maps (Highlands, Great Plains)?

It makes a lot more sense doesnt it. However, i went ahead and re-did the start on continents... i think it will be OK this time.

I guess I should do some sort of write-up.....

When I started this game, I assumed I would be doing some heavy duty warring. My plan was to pump out a scout, then 2 workers and 2 settlers to start. After that I was going to build Stonehenge for culture, then focus on military. I would settle one city near horses and one near bronze. Research order would be Mining=>BW=>Animal Husbandry=>Mysticism.

I settled in place, sent my scout out to explore, and started working on another scout. Within 2 turns, my scout popped a hut for another scout so I immediately switched to a worker. When my first worker was done, he farmed the corn, then started chopping. My 2 scouts popped a few more huts for some gold and yet another scout. Eventually, my 3 scouts explored all of the land and it turns out that we are on a pretty small continent by ourselves. So the plan now is to settle the whole continent as fast as possible. My first settler settled a nice cottage spamming site to the east and my second settled near some copper. I could've grabbed horses, but I figured it was a waste of a settle since my capital would grab it before time ran out. After Stonehenge, my capital worked on a 3rd settler while my other 2 cities built a worker and some warriors. When my cities expanded, I hooked up copper and captured a barbarian city with axemen. I then used axemen/warriors to bust all of the fog on the continent, and I had 4 of my cities each produce another settlere. Meanwhile I was researching towards COL, and I probably should've waited until I finished it before settling those 4 settlers. At this point though, I figured research wasn't too important anymore so I set science to 0 and settled all of those cities. I used my workers to build some cottages, and used my cities to build granaries and a couple more settlers that would fill in the gaps when I was close to my deadline. After that, I was basically wasting time. I soon realized that there was another island close enough to reach with galleys so I tried my hardest to research sailing and get a galley out before time ran out. If I was paying attention, this would've been no problem, but with the ammount of maintenance I was paying, it turned out to be quite a struggle. I managed to barely settle one city on that island before my deadline. If I had been paying attention and researched sailing before killing my research. I probably would've been able to settle every available tile there was.

Ok disaster.

We are the only civ on the continent, and because I locked assets , the save wont play for me. I think. Any way Petej your save doesnt play for me.

I think i have to abandon the original start and make a new one. There have bee n 2 views. PeteJ and one other. Im sorry to these 2 people. We have to start again.

See post one for the new set up.

should we go Vanilla?

PeteJ what do you think...?

I wish I had seen this before I did a write-up... Oh well it was way too easy anyway. So easy in fact that we could've played until 1000 BC and still have people who filled up the whole continent.

I don't care if you go Vanilla or not.

Sorry about that PeteJ. But the next start is a good one.

With no spoilers, I got a barbarian at 3880 BC ! It killed my scout so i was playing blind. Also i played really badly with my economy on strike at 50 BC.
Note to self.. look after economy,not just build units.:crazyeye:


Bad points.. research is kind of irrelevant after the early techs, but could be more relevant with other variants.

good points... it was a barrel load of fun. i'd like to play it again carefully.

write up and save. My result 6.96 %:blush:

Organised three immortals factories and started looking for trouble

Declared war on Wang Kon but realised he had a warrior scouting near one of my cites.Only just got to him with an immortal from my capital.

Realised that protective capitals are hard to beat. Lost 5 immortals to Seoul before giving up. Got peace with korea to focus on Victoria. Met Isabella in 500 BC and took a couple of cities.

Basically made a huge mess of it, and realised I should have move workers up with the immortals to chop monuments.

Around 50 BC started losing units to strike.

1 AD posted embarrasing save

Hehe, alone on the continent? That would have been easy. :D I can see why you had to make another start, don't worry. I'll play this during the weekend.

I hope you do better than me

Second attempt, although I won't count this one. Built a few cottages in the capital. Teched towards catapults in order to take Madrid and London. attacked Korea and just took the small third city.
Declared on Isabella.Took Barca and started to chop monuments. But.. econ fell over again because of too many immortals/cities.
It is hard to get it right. i think it's necessary to tech to catapults with only 3 or maybe 4 cities, then produce the stack and attack with workers in tow to chop monuments. The pre catapult rush is hard because both capitals have religions and therefore high culture. My second attempt got less land than the first!

I got 14.69%... If I could play it again, I could probably do a lot better. But I think 14.69% is pretty good. One of the more interesting parts of the game is when I managed to pull off the CS slingshot at 0% research.

Anyway here is the save....http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/LandGrab_AD-0001.zip

And a little tidbit about my strategy... I started this game off a little differently... I did worker first, then a scout to replace my first scout who got killed. Then a warrior until I grew to size 3, then 2 settlers. First settler settled by the horses and built a worker, second one settled up north.

I researched Mining=>Animal Husbandry=>BW=>Wheel=>Pottery=>Mystisicm=>Writing=>Alphabet. After that I shut off research and went to war. Once I had 4 cities, I started mass producing Immortals and took Korea's cities 1 by one. He had about 5 cities I think. Then I started filling in some empty spaces with settlers.

Around that time, I realized that I could keep up a decent research rate by setting some of my production cities to "Research". I basically did that for kicks but it turned out to be a pretty solid strategy. And for some reason, none of the AI wanted to build the Oracle in this game. I somehow managed to grab CS around 375BC I think. In the end of the game I had a couple of settlers stocked up and settled them a few turns before 1 AD. At that point my economy was pretty much steady at 0% research. As I said, I could've done better if I had figured out that research strategy earlier and got COL earlier. I would've been able to set up a few courthouses then expand more. Oh well maybe next time.

You got more than twice the land I did. I really sucked at this.

I'm curious why you teched towards literature though.
And how did you take the Korean capital? I had no odds against the archers there. Was it 3:1 ? or more ?

I noticed you have plenty of cottages ,I suppose to pay for the immortals.

I usually play on Epic so I made a real mess of the timing.

Carl corey is playing i think. I wonder if he can beat 14.69%

I was kinda killing time, not so much teching towards literature. And the Korean Capital was kinda difficult.... I lost 4 Immortals I think but I had some decent promotions at that point. I had my great general by then and used it on a single Immortal(should've used it on 2), but without him I would've lost 1 more Immortal or maybe even 2 more with bad luck. But once I took the capital, it was easy after that.

BTW, I think Stonehenge helped me out a lot during the war phase. I wouldn't have had time to build/chop monuments while needing Immortals. Afterwards though, it wouldn't have mattered so much. And cottages were very helpful for funding my huge empire without going on strike.

And I play on Epic too so Normal speed was a little weird for me.

Whoa, 14.69%?! Gulp, mice, I'm in the same boat as you. But won't post the save. :p I had 6.52%, with a captured city ready to grow on the next turn. Very ugly... And man, does 1AD come fast! I play on Normal lately but never looked at the dates. At least this time I had Immortals! Woohoo! Big, many, useless Immortals...:wallbash:

I've also went to war with Immortals and razed a city and captured two in the next war.

My main mistakes:
- building settlers way too late to grab some more land. This would have made better use of the Imperialistic trait.
- going to war that far away wasn't the best decision. I wonder if just filling the gap between me and the Koreans wouldn't have been much better?!
- had no estimate about the number of techs I could get. Should have stopped research earlier and shift the money toward maintenance. Also, my decision for which techs to go proved really weak. I had Monarchy, Mathematics from a GS, but no Code of Laws until really late ("You need it for expanding! D'uh!") and no Alphabet so at times I was left with nothing useful to build when I could have built Research.

In my game the Oracle was the first wonder to get built, then either Stonehenge or Great Wall, don't remember exactly.

I guess I just got "Immortal-frenzy". :)


I'd like to play another, and hopefully more people will join. Seeing what PeteJ has done makes me think I can still improve here and there. ;)

Around that time, I realized that I could keep up a decent research rate by setting some of my production cities to "Research". I basically did that for kicks but it turned out to be a pretty solid strategy. As I said, I could've done better if I had figured out that research strategy earlier and got COL earlier.
Sorry to ruin part of your spoiler...

Normally anything you get from building research is totally a drop in the bucket, but you're right, in the early years when tech costs are still relatively low this has some chance of being viable. What's the tech that allows building research? Writing or Alphabet? And exactly how much unmodified production did your cities have that were doing this? This looks like a strategy worthy of some additional investigation.

I'd like to play another, and hopefully more people will join. Seeing what PeteJ has done makes me think I can still improve here and there. ;)


Great. Im happy you enjoyed it even though you crashed like I did.

I've got some ideas for another one. maybe vanilla to make the saves easier.
maybe monarch, because we can play above our usual level I think (mine is noble/Prince). Maybe try to get max. population. Raging barbs...

Any ideas ?

@ Eggman. I'm surprised too that building research had any effect. I think PeteJ's success was taking cites well though. He used small cities to get promotions and then attacked the capitals.Monumaents everywhere, commerce to match the army. Just good play.

In my game the Oracle was the first wonder to get built, then either Stonehenge or Great Wall, don't remember exactly.

I guess I just got "Immortal-frenzy". :)

;)

I guess building Stonehenge was a good idea. I didnt think about it. Oracle? that would have been good for construction and catapults maybe.

Also I agree that the other civs were far away. In a full game i wouldnt've attacked Isabella until AD.

It wasn't me who built the Wonders. I replayed this without going to war, and with better luck since I popped Mysticism, a scout and tons of gold from huts, and so I built Stonehenge. It definitely helped, but not enough. I got around 8%.

The idea is, capturing a city is much less costly if done well than building it yourself. You can save improvements, capture workers, etc. So the thing on which I'll concentrate next time is managing my wars better.

And yeah, all the jungle didn't really help the Immortal attack. :D In the peaceful game I settled up to the Korean borders and got another city down south. My first three were positioned almost as yours in both games. Thanks to Stonehenge everything expanded much faster.

About "building" research: there has been a modification in Warlords from vanilla cIV. I'm surprised I haven't seen it mentioned here, but I only frequent the Strategy & Tips forum, so... Ok, about the modification:
1) In vanilla cIV it says: converts 50% production into research. False: with patch 1.61 ALL BASE production is converted into research. Forges, Factories, Power, Resources used by Ironworks have no effect though.
2) In Warlords: converts 100% production into research. True: EVERYTHING, including Forges, Factories, Power and Ironworks-given Coal and Iron bonuses are taken into account.

In conclusion: early it's useful to convert research into beakers in both vanilla cIV and Warlords, but in Warlords this is true even after building a forge for example.

That could have quite big implications. I wonder if it applies to culture and wealth too.

re. the thread, is anyone else still playing? If not i'll wrap it up soon in order to start a new one. I have a good idea for the next. :gold:

Sorry to ruin part of your spoiler...

Normally anything you get from building research is totally a drop in the bucket, but you're right, in the early years when tech costs are still relatively low this has some chance of being viable. What's the tech that allows building research? Writing or Alphabet? And exactly how much unmodified production did your cities have that were doing this? This looks like a strategy worthy of some additional investigation.

Yeah this is very interesting stuff. My production cities were actually not too impressive... The most hammers I was getting in one city was 11. But when you set the build to research, that is 11 beakers per turn. The reason why this worked so well for me is because while I was researching COL I had about 9 cities and maybe 6 of them building research. This was when Korea was down to 2 cities and I had plenty of Immortals to finish him off. If I had taken notes(which I have never done) I could give you more accurate info. I think the reason this worked so well for me is because I had so many cities. This probably wouldn't work so well with 4 or 5 cities.

I am also pretty sure that chopping works for this too... Chop a tree and you have an instant 30 beakers towards your tech. Imagine pre-chopping a bunch of trees and chopping them all at once to grab a certain tech. I'm not exactly sure how well that would work, but it is definitely worth checking out.

And BTW, you need Alphabet to build research.

This probably wouldn't work so well with 4 or 5 cities.


Yes but in the late game with 25 cities it could really change things.

I am also pretty sure that chopping works for this too... Chop a tree and you have an instant 30 beakers towards your tech. Imagine pre-chopping a bunch of trees and chopping them all at once to grab a certain tech. I'm not exactly sure how well that would work, but it is definitely worth checking out.

The implications for beeline strats are big. In between building armies and warring, you can build reseach and tech up to the next age, then upgrade and go again. It favours the specialist econ because of the gold available for upgrades, and because spec econs tend to have strong production.

but no Code of Laws until really late ("You need it for expanding! D'uh!")

I never really got around to building any courthouses. It was the cottages that kept me going and the overall focus on commerce in almost every city I had. If I had COL earlier, I possibly could've kept going and broke 20%. That would really be something. Bearucracy helped in the end as well, but I definitely wasn't expecting to grab CS.

And I never went to war with Vicky or Isabella. They were just way too far away.

I've verified a while ago that for Wealth, tree chops plus production/slavery overflow does not get converted into gold. I'm sure the same applies to Research.

I've verified a while ago that for Wealth, tree chops plus production/slavery overflow does not get converted into gold. I'm sure the same applies to Research.

Have you verified that for Warlords or Vanilla?

Even without tree chops , surely this is game changing because 1 good production city could pay for expansion,units and city maintenance.

Keep a city or raze it? If it can run 1 mine it will pay for itself probably.

Shrine gold city will need to run a couple of mines and sit on wealth between modifier builds. Super science city the same. Science specialists or hammers?
For non philosophical leaders it'll make the hybrid economy very strong and interesting

Have you verified that for Warlords or Vanilla?
It was vanilla. I'd be surprised if they changed it for Warlords, but if they allowed you to get production bonuses and it's no longer 50% maybe they did.

sorry, error

Could go for pangea. Advise against raging barbs especially at monarch; you'd spent most of the first 4000 years just surviving.

Could go for pangea. Advise against raging barbs especially at monarch; you'd spent most of the first 4000 years just surviving.

Yes good idea. Mansa musa, Monarch , Lakes or Pangea , Raging barbs. Winner is the player with the highest population left alive at 1 AD or whatever.

However I would like to start the next thread based on shrine gold. In fact I'll start it tonight.
Isabella,Continents, play to 1600 AD. Winner is he/she who has the most shrine gold/turn.

I tested it and found out that trees chopped do not count towards research. Any tree that is put towards research is wasted. Probably the same for whip overflow. This still could be a potentially powerful strategy and it should certainly be tested more thoroughly. I think it is most powerful in the early stages of the game, but would probably trail off once techs start becoming expensive. I definitely think we should look into this a little bit more. Perhaps we should start a new thread to discuss this rather than hijacking Mice's thread.

Anyway, thanks for setting this game up Mice. I learned a lot playing this and I am looking forward to the next one. Perhaps next time we should play as a different civ since Cyrus is probably the easiest civ to play this type of game. Imperialist plus a dominant early UU is very powerful.

PeteJ, I already started another thread about the hammers. I got pretty excited, but I think the collective mind will bring it down to earth.

I'm really pleased you liked the competition, and I hope you'll try the next. It should be fun

I guess there might be another submission, but in the absence of any other saves it looks like you are the WINNER.

Could go for pangea. Advise against raging barbs especially at monarch; you'd spent most of the first 4000 years just surviving.

raging barbs is kinda silly to me. u should do it, cuz its different in the extreme. but its really all a function of how alone u r. if u really are alone, ur in for I'd say 1 barb attack every 2 turns or something silly like that. atleast I've had that before.