Since (and I still can't believe it) Ajax did not qualify for the CL, they are doomed to play the UEFA Cup..so all over sudden this thread becomes a lot more important to me. :p

We know who are going to play the first round this year:

Ajax (Net)
Dinamo Zagreb (Cro)
Artmedia (Slo)
Iraklis (Gre)
IK Start (Nor)
SV Pasching (Aus)

AZ (Net)
Rode Ster (Ser)
Eintracht Frankfurt (Ger)
Rubin Kazan (Rus)
Kayserispor (Tur)
Ethnikos Achnas (Cyp)

Feyenoord (Net)
West Ham United (Eng)
Nacional (Por)
Trabzonspor (Tur)
Lokomotiv Sofia (Bul)
Rabotnicki (Mac)

FC Groningen (Net)
Bayer Leverkusen (Ger)
Club Brugge (Bel)
Slavia Praag (Cze)
Partizan (Ser)
Dinamo Boekarest (Rum)

SC Heerenveen (Net)
CSKA Sofia (Bul)
Vítoria (Por)
Atromitos (Gre)
Mlada Boleslav (Cze)
Åtvidabergs (Swe)

((rest follows))

These teams will play a knock-out phase after which the winners head on to the group phase that was newly introduced two years ago.. after that round, the numbers 3 of the CL will take part as well.

Oh well.. the draw has already been done :p So no need to complete the above post. Here are the games of the first round:

Chernomets Odessa - Hapoel Tel Aviv
Sporting Braga - Chievo Verona
Levadia Talinn - Newcastle United
Molde FK - Glasgow Rangers
Standard Luik - Celta de Vigo

Maccabi Haifa - Litex Lovetsj
Derry City - Paris Saint-Germain
Hertha BSC - Odense BK
Legia Warschau - Austria Wien
Panathinaikos - FC Metalurg Zaporizhiya

Lokomotiv Moskou - Zulte-Waregem
Sparta Praag - Hearts
Fenerbache SK - Randers FC
FC Salzburg - Blackburn Rovers
Schalke 04 - AS Nancy

Ethnikos Anchas - RC Lens
Slovan Liberec - Rode Ster Belgrado
AZ - Kayserispor
FC Rubin Kazan - Parma FC
Brondby IF - Eintracht Frankfurt

Atromitos FC - Sevilla FC
Besiktas JK - CSKA Sofia
Vitoria Setubal - SC Heerenveen
Olympique Marseille - Mlada Boleslav
Altvidabergs FF - Grasshoppers

Rapid Boekarest - CD Nacional
Trabzonspor- CA Osasuna
FC Basel 1893 - FK Rabotnicki Skopje
West Ham United - Palermo
Feyenoord - Lokomotiv Sofia

Ruzomberok - Club Brugge
FC Sion - Bayer Leverkusen
FK Partizan Belgrado - FC Groningen
Skoda Xanthi FC - FC Dinamo Boekarest
Slavia Praag - Tottenham Hotspur

IK Start Kristiansand - Ajax
FC Artmedia Bratislava - Espanyol
Wisla Krakow - Iraklis Saloniki
Livorno - SV Pasching
Dinamo Zagreb - AJ Auxerre

West Ham United - Palermo

This might be the most interesting game, although there are a few more candidates. A list like this proves though, how uninteresting the UEFA Cup can be in the first round(s).

As for Ajax, it might seem I do not have a lot to complain with Start from Norway, but since they went out against FC Kobenhavn in the CL qualification, I am not feeling that save.

More scandinavian opponets for Ajax? :mischief:

On the portuguese sides, Braga were unlucky again facing Chievo. They have been putting pressure on the Big 3 for the past 2 or 3 seasons, but have always gone out in the first round, last season after an ajaxesque display against Red Star, where they missed loads of chances to win by 4 or 5. And if they qualify, if those groupings mean the follow up groups, the group won't be easy either.

Vitória sucks this season, so they should be eliminated by Heerenveen.

Nacional can do it against Rapid Bucharest.

You never know with Heerenveen. They lost Huntelaar and Samaras, their two best attackers, last season. In return they bought Alves, a Brazilian striker who played in Sweden for a few years (Wow! What a surprise! Heerenveen is shopping in Scandinavia!). We'll see...

I think all of the Dutch teams have a reasonable chance of advancing. Ajax will probably get themselves in trouble again but pull it off by some 86th minute goal in the return game. Feyenoord, if they can get their act together in time, should advance as well. AZ seems to be facing a minor team and I have more convidence in them than in any other team in the UC at this point of time. Heerenveen we had before, and well..Groningen probably got the most difficult opponent...but even they should be able to get a nice result in the Euroborg.

The goal of this season is obvious: advance as far as possible, preferably knocking out Russian and Rumanian teams.. if possible even Portuguese and German ones. But from the dream of advancing one spot on the UEFA ranking, this season has become the panic of not dropping two places because of Twente's inability to qualify for the UC (knocked out by some team from Talinn) and Ajax failure in the CL qualification.

It is good to see Australian teams in this competition. ;) A hint is that the abreviation for Austria is Aut.

Generally you do not expect to many big games at this stage, but there are a few here and there. The bigest include:
Fenerbache SK - Randers FC, Trabzonspor- CA Osasuna and Schalke 04 - AS Nancy

All four German teams have opponents that should be beatable. By the performance of the last years that probably means that only two them will make it. :undecide:

Interesting thread though, as since the Champions League draw yesterday many people here believe that we will eventually wins this cup... ;)

That is assuming to even make it third. ;)

People have no respect for Levski Sofia. :(

Besiktas-CSKA Sofia match will be very interesting. Two teams with equal strength. It will be a very hard match.

Kayserispor have drawn AZ. I should say "Goodbye Kayseri" :( Kayserispor have 3 turkish internationals but AZ is too strong.

Hmm. Hearts get Sparta Prague. Pretty tough draw, and we're still rather sore about the Athens games (AEK didn't manage to score against Hearts when they had 11 men, but the referees combined to send three Hearts players off, in each case at least a debatable decision, and added in a very soft penalty for good measure. Add in the fact that Hearts had to play their first leg three days after playing Celtic, and you can perhaps understand the feeling of injustice that has been going around).

All four German teams have opponents that should be beatable. By the performance of the last years that probably means that only two them will make it. :undecide:
I hope (and believe) that Frankfurt get their asses kicked. :goodjob:

I'm surprised no one has posted here.

I only saw one of the four possible games today.. had to prepare a class on Max Weber.. I have to teach my fellow students about him and competitive elitism tomorrow hehe.

Anyway, Ajax played abysmal in Lillestrom against IK Start (from Kristiansand).. but still won 5-2. It was worse than a test match and Ajax was obviously dragged down by the low level of IK Start and a lack of motivation. Anyway, we can count Ajax in the group phase.

Feyenoord drew 2-2 away against Levski Sofia, which is a good result for the shape Feyenoord is in at the moment. A small win in Rotterdam, and also Feyenoord is on.

AZ won only 3-2 at home against some Turkish team I forgot the name of. I guess it's gonna be tough in Turkey, but I trust in my fellow North-Hollanders!

Heerenveen did some great business by beating Setúbal 3-0 in Portugal. Could it go wrong? YES! Decades ago Ajax was beaten 3-0 in Amsterdam by Benfica, and only got through thanks to a 3-0 in Lisboa and a 3-1 win in the decissionmatch in Paris. Will history repeat itself (3-1 penalties maybe?).

Groningen lost 4-2 against Partizan. Halfway I checked and they were down 3-0, so I counted them out already.. but 4-2 is a way better score. The difference between Groningen at home and Groningen away is already legendary here, so a 2-0 is a possibility...


All with all we should count our blessings now.. Ajax and Heerenveen are as good as through, AZ and Feyenoord have a good position to do the same. Groningen faces a great challenge, but just might pull a stunt.

Feyenoord drew 2-2 away against Levski Sofia, which is a good result for the shape Feyenoord is in at the moment. A small win in Rotterdam, and also Feyenoord is on.


Theoretically correct, but did you see the game?
Feyenoord played extremely bad, and were quite lucky not to lose.
The only players playing decent were De Guzman and Greene. The rest was horrible.

I did not actually.. I only saw the goals. I had to work on my Max Weber assignment..

AZ won only 3-2 at home against some Turkish team I forgot the name of. I guess it's gonna be tough in Turkey, but I trust in my fellow North-Hollanders!



:lol: :lol:

The advantage of Kayserispor was that they were underestimated by the rest of Europe. Even I was hopeless about Kayserispors chances after AZ beat NAC 8-1. However, van Gaal and AZ players will be serious in the return leg.


Besiktas beat CSKA Sofia 2-0 by two late goals. Its a nice score I think. Enough to see us through.

Trabzonspor drew Osasuna 2-2 after an abysmal performance.

Fenerbahce came from from behind to beat Randers 2-1 to beat Randers od Denmark.

Overall, every Turkish team has a chance to qualify for the group stages.:goodjob:

Theoretically correct, but did you see the game?
Feyenoord played extremely bad, and were quite lucky not to lose.
The only players playing decent were De Guzman and Greene. The rest was horrible.

IMO Feyenoord is getting better, last sunday against PSV they still played bad, but they could have won and deserved a draw (that ref was terrible:mad:)

Yeah, it was a legitimate goal.. and I guess it was a penalty too for Boussaboun.. but then PSV could've gotten one too. I'd have prefered the 4-4. :D

Anyway, Feyenoord will grow I guess, but it might be too late already...

So.. Groningen didn't make it.. they won 1-0, missed a penalty and thereby killed their chances to get into the grou phase. Heerenveen drew 0-0 after winning 3-0 in the away game, Feyenoord drew 0-0 and advanced on away goals, Ajax won 4-0 and advances with 9-2 on agg., and AZ drew 1-1 in Turkey and advances as well.

Zulte-Waregem made it to the group phase. A major surprise. They beat Lokomotiv Moskou at home: 2-0 after losing with 2-1 in Moskou.

Club Bruges advanced after a disappointing match against Rozembrok of Slovakia: 1-1 at home.

Standard Liège is out after a 3-0 loss against Celta de Vigo

Here is the pots for the draw:

Sevilla (ESP)
Newcastle (ENG)
Panathinaikos (GRE)
Parma (ITA)
Ajax (NET)
Bayer Leverkusen (GER)
Feyenoord (NET)
Auxerre (FRA)

Club Brugge (BEL)
FC Basel (SUI)
AZ (NET)
Sparta Praha (CZE)
Rangers (SCO)
Celta (ESP)
PSG (FRA)
Lens (FRA)

Besiktas (TUR)
Palermo (ITA)
Espanyol (ESP)
Heerenveen (NET)
Partizan (SER)
Rapid Buc. (RUM)
Wisla Kraków (POL)
Slovan Liberec (CZE)

Fenerbahçe (TUR)
Austria Wien (AUT)
Hapoel Tel Aviv (ISR)
Osasuna (ESP)
Blackburn Rovers (ENG)
Grasshoppers (SUI)
Dinamo Buc. (RUM)
Livorno (ITA)

Tottenham (ENG)
Maccabi Haifa (ISR)
Braga (POR)
Nancy (FRA)
Eintracht Frankfurt (GER)
Zulte-Waregem (BEL)
Mlada Boleslav (CZE)
Odense (DK)

Spurs in the last pot ? That's likely to be an unpleasant surprise for somebody.

Yes indeed. It might be someone's nightmare even.

Nice to see us in the 3rd pot. I would rather play PSG than Espanyol or Partizan.

We're (Feyenoord) in the first pot, that's good. Then we'll have a small chance to become third in the group.

I really don't understand though, how Feyenoord got into first pot.

Feyenoord won the UEFA Cup a few years ago. That's probably still counting to the ranking.

It's not counting in the coefficient ranking anymore.. it was 2001/2002.

I thought it was the previous 5 years. Well, there aren't exactly many final stages habitués in the other pots...

Hmmm, they include this year I think:

2002/03
2003/04
2004/05
2005/06
2006/07

Feyenoord`s win is only reflected in the country coefficients.

How can that be? Then how do they determine club coefficient??

And in the new country ranking 2001/02 is not included anymore. That's why at this moment we dropped one place; Rumania got ahead.

The draw has started...

The results:

Group A
1.Auxerre
2. Rangers
3. Partizan
4. Livorno
5. Macabi Haifa

Group B
1. Leverkusen
2. Club Brugge
3. Besiktas
4. Dinamo Bucarest
5. Tottenham

Group C
1. Sevilla
2. AZ
3. Liberec
4. Grasshoppers Zurich
5. Braga

Group D
1. Parma
2. Lens
3. Heerenveen
4. Osasuna
5. Odense

Group E
1. Feyenoord
2. Basel
3. Wisla Cracow
4. Blackburn
5. Nancy

Group F
1. Ajax
2. Sparta Praha
3. Espanyol
4. Austria
5. Zulte Waregem

Group G
1. Panathinaikos
2. PSG
3. Rapid Bucarest
4. Hapoel Tel-Aviv
5. Mlada Boleslav

Group H
1. Newcastle
2. Celta de Vigo
3. Palermo
4. Fenerbahce
5. Eintracht Frankfurt

Club Brugge is doomed. No way they can survive in that group. They received the present of Tottenham in pot 5!

Zulte Waregem has some nice fixtures to look forward too. They are already glad to have made the group stage. But you never know. Nobody expected their victory against Lokomotiv Moskou. So watch out Ajax!! ;)

Is it just me or are the groups generally more difficult this season?

Tottenham and Newcastle seem to have been given pretty difficult groups although Newcastle had some easy qualification matches.

Yeah, Group H in particular looks quite tough. The other groups have generally 3 or 4 good teams at least.

Braga has a chance to come out of Group C, ahead of Liberec and Grasshoppers.

I don't think Rangers could have been given a better group. If we had any chance of progressing, it will be with this group. We just need to get our act together.

Why was Spurs in the last pot? I was very suprised at that

They haven't been in Europe recently.

Group H looks tough, but we can win against anyone in this group.

Go Fenerbahce!

Group A
Auxerre, Livorno and Rangers

The Israeli's don't really stand a chance I think, Partizan might give Rangers a hard time at some point.. but I think Auxerre and Livorno have what is needed to go through without much trouble.

Group B
Leverkusen, Tottenham, Dinamo

Last season we've seen what Rumanian teams can do..quite frankly I hope Dinamo loses every single game since if Rumania goes on like this, the Netherlands will drop a spot at the coefficient list.. and so might Portugal. Tottenham has a strong team and Leverkusen played well in the first round..so it seems logical to eliminate clubs like Club Brugge and Besiktas, who aren't bad, but just have a little bit less than the others. Everything is possible though in this group..

Group C
Sevilla, AZ and Braga

I don't think anyone question Sevilla in this group. Grasshoppers will probably show to be the weakest link. The two other spots are between AZ, Liberec and Braga. If AZ play as they have been, they'll take one of those spots.. the other one goes to Braga, although Liberec makes a really good chance.

Group D
Lens, Osasuna, Parma

These three just seem to be the strongest teams. Odense is doomed, and Heerenveen does have a small chance if they rise above themselves.

Group E
Blackburn, Nancy, Feyenoord

Feyenoord is incredibly lucky. Even with the team they have now, which might be the worst in decades, they have a chance of getting through this group. Wisla will probably hit just small defeats, but victories are far away I think. Blackburn isn't the best English team around, but they should be able to win most games. In the end Blackburn and Nancy will probably lead the group, followed by hopefully Feyenoord.. but this could also be Basel.

Group F
Ajax, Espanyol, Sparta

Ajax didn't actually get a really dificult group. The only team they might lose against is, in my opinion, Espanyol. Since that game is at home though, Ajax could actually get through this group without a defeat and hopefully with just wins. Sparta Praha is not anymore what it once was, as we've seen last season.. Austria Wien is a marginal team in European football, although they probably won't be losing that many games. Espanyol is a strong club of course, but it also helps to have weaker opponents. I don't know much of Zulte-Waregem, but should they be that big of a problem for the big teams? Basically the first two spots go to Espanyol and Ajax, I think, and the third is really open.

Group G
Rapid, PSG, Panathinaikos

I don't think Mladá will be able to repeat the shock defeat of Olympique de Marseille. PSG will restore French honour, Panathinaikos will prove to strong and Rapid Bucaresti is just another one of those Rumanian teams that all over sudden do so well. Hapoel Tel-Aviv probably won't get more than one single point.

Group H
Palermo, Celta, Newcastle

The group of death.. Basically any of these teams could go through or get kicked out. In the end I think Palermo will prove to have the strongest team though...Italians always do well. Celta and Newcastle get the benefit of the doubt for playing in bigger and better leagues than Fenerbahçe and Eintracht Frankfurt.

How can that be? Then how do they determine club coefficient??

And in the new country ranking 2001/02 is not included anymore. That's why at this moment we dropped one place; Rumania got ahead.


http://www.uefa.com/uefa/Keytopics/kind=64/newsId=436763.html

Above is the official country rankings published by the UEFA. 01/02 season is still included.


"The UEFA ranking determines the number of teams competing in the season after the next, not in the first season after the publication of the ranking. Thus, the 2006 ranking determines the proportion in 2007–08, not 2006–07."
from answers.com.

UEFA announces every year a coefficient table at the end of the season. The coefficient table takes effect the next year, not the following season. However, club coefficients take effect the following season. So the points taken in 2005/2006 season is reflected on the club coefficients but not country coefficients.

Spurs in the last pot ? That's likely to be an unpleasant surprise for somebody.

It is indeed. However I am hopeful because we have a manager who knows Spurs very well, we will play them in Inonu and Spurs is in poor shape.

@ jeriko one: Club Brugge plays against Besiktas in Turkey. I guess they can expect a 'warm' welcome in Istanbul? ;)

Last season we've seen what Rumanian teams can do..quite frankly I hope Dinamo loses every single game since if Rumania goes on like this, the Netherlands will drop a spot at the coefficient list.
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9214/demondg5.gif Count Dracula will take care of you tonight! http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9214/demondg5.gif

:mischief:

@ jeriko one: Club Brugge plays against Besiktas in Turkey. I guess they can expect a 'warm' welcome in Istanbul? ;)

A really 'warm' welcome:goodjob: . I hope they do not light up the flares. If they do it will be even warmer:) (and a ban form UEFA will be quite likely) I think it will be a very hard match. Both teams are about the same strenght. But Besiktas will feel the pressure at home.

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9214/demondg5.gif Count Dracula will take care of you tonight! http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9214/demondg5.gif
[/spoiler]

They did took care of us 2 years ago when we were beaten by Steaua.

Last season we've seen what Rumanian teams can do..quite frankly I hope Dinamo loses every single game since if Rumania goes on like this, the Netherlands will drop a spot at the coefficient list.. and so might Portugal.


Yeah, Romania's points have a bigger weight than Portugal's due to having less teams and we're on the verge of getting passed by Romania. In the "virtual" ranking maybe we're already behind. And those idiots from Nacional lost both their games to Rapid...

Yeah, Romania's points have a bigger weight than Portugal's due to having less teams and we're on the verge of getting passed by Romania. In the "virtual" ranking maybe we're already behind. And those idiots from Nacional lost both their games to Rapid...

Well, I guess it's temporary anyway. Once Rumania gets 5 or 7 teams or so, they fall back again...hopefully.

Maybe, but remember this arranged in 5 years cycles (I think). So it would take 5 years to bring them down again.

Anyway, Portugal doesn't have enough quality teams to deserve that many teams in Europe. After the best 4 teams, the rest are just a waste of ranking points.

Maybe, but remember this arranged in 5 years cycles (I think). So it would take 5 years to bring them down again.

Anyway, Portugal doesn't have enough quality teams to deserve that many teams in Europe. After the best 4 teams, the rest are just a waste of ranking points.

No no.. because we are going to gain more points too. :p

Yeah, Romania's points have a bigger weight than Portugal's due to having less teams and we're on the verge of getting passed by Romania. In the "virtual" ranking maybe we're already behind. And those idiots from Nacional lost both their games to Rapid...
Well, I guess it's temporary anyway. Once Rumania gets 5 or 7 teams or so, they fall back again...hopefully.
Maybe, but remember this arranged in 5 years cycles (I think). So it would take 5 years to bring them down again.
Anyway, Portugal doesn't have enough quality teams to deserve that many teams in Europe. After the best 4 teams, the rest are just a waste of ranking points.
:lol: Am I alone against the whole forum?

:lol: At this moment Rumania is threatening our position. That's why we agree. :D

:lol: At this moment Rumania is threatening our position. That's why we agree. :D
:lol:


Well, I hope for my country, but not too much. I'm not too much of a patriot.

If you drop on the list of coefficient, you can be second in the qualification group for Euro 2008, behind the Netherlands. Agreed?

So, a lot of matches coming up. Any favourites?

Any analysis of Braga? They seem to have a reasonable team, with a weak defence according to a Dutch magazine. Striker Marcel isn't that good is he?

So, a lot of matches coming up. Any favourites?

Any analysis of Braga? They seem to have a reasonable team, with a weak defence according to a Dutch magazine. Striker Marcel isn't that good is he?

Well, they changed coach (Braga's former coach is now Porto's) and lost a few important players, notably precisely in defence and in the striker position, but I would' say they have a weak defence in relation to the quality of the rest of the team. The attacking trio is formed by 3 players that didn't triumph respectively in Porto, Benfica and Sporting, Maciel, Marcel and Wender, but both Maciel and Wender have been reborn at Braga, and they are not pure wingers, more like the old interiors, ie, they are very fast and usually drift to the box to fill the striker's role, so there is a lot of mobility in the attack. The right back, Luís Filipe, is also very offensive (former winger), but not the left back.
Their main strength however should be the midfield, especially Andrés Madrid, an argentinian DM, who is one of the best players in our league, and João Pinto, the veteran (35) star forward now playing in a playmaker role, and who has been playing quite well, considering his age, is new role and team.

However, I'm not sure if they're going to adopt a more defensive approach in the away game against AZ, possibly replacing a forward for another holding midfielder, maybe Frechaut, a former portuguese international with CL and WC experience.

Nonetheless, I expect AZ to win Thursday...

Well Rangers are playing tonight. Against Liverno. not sure how well they're doing but I certainly know how well Rangers are playing.

Suppose it's time to get into my position for watching Rangers play in Europe, the fetal position, rocking and whispering 'Oh God...... Oh God...... Oh God' to myself. Should be a blast :goodjob:

Well Rangers are playing tonight. Against Liverno. not sure how well they're doing but I certainly know how well Rangers are playing.

Suppose it's time to get into my position for watching Rangers play in Europe, the fetal position, rocking and whispering 'Oh God...... Oh God...... Oh God' to myself. Should be a blast :goodjob:

You're a Rangers fan? Oh sorry to say, I hope they find a cure for that disease soon... ;) (I prefer Celtic)

Anyways, I myself am preparing to see the final act of the Fc Basel drama tonight. After the apocalyptic (expected) loss against Feyenord at home, our coach's head finally has to fall (he's done terribly since May 13 when we lost the championship in the 93. minute of the last game to our arch rival, but our (female) president just relies too much on him, she won't kick him out despite the evergrowing opposition).

mfG mitsho

Anyways, I myself am preparing to see the final act of the Fc Basel drama tonight. After the apocalyptic (expected) loss against Feyenord at home, our coach's head finally has to fall (he's done terribly since May 13 when we lost the championship in the 93. minute of the last game to our arch rival, but our (female) president just relies too much on him, she won't kick him out despite the evergrowing opposition).

yeah, this should be interesting, if they keep on playing like this, they'll play the barrage against Congeli soon :lol:
I just hope that the Feyenoord fans leave our city intact for once :p

You're a Rangers fan? Oh sorry to say, I hope they find a cure for that disease soon... ;) (I prefer Celtic)


Heh yeah I hope it gets sorted soon, lot of problems, but I'm just not sure why, but hey, that's football I suppose :p

yeah, this should be interesting, if they keep on playing like this, they'll play the barrage against Congeli soon :lol:
I just hope that the Feyenoord fans leave our city intact for once :p

1. I hope they don't. I couldn't stand the only Basler Team to be playing in blue-white ;)
2. I am not too concerned about the Dutch Hools. Police has to be prepared (this time... ;)) and after what I heard they plan to come in in a big number... And it's just training for the Euro08...

@steviejay So you're not a Rangers fan? Or do I get something wrong around here...

mitsho

no no I'm a Rangers fan :)

1. I hope they don't. I couldn't stand the only Basler Team to be playing in blue-white ;)
:lol: yeah that would be the ultimate irony
2. I am not too concerned about the Dutch Hools. Police has to be prepared (this time... ;)) and after what I heard they plan to come in in a big number... And it's just training for the Euro08...
yeah, I guess so, already I can see the police lining up box vans outside :ack:

Should have been an interesting match between Feyenoord and FC Basel (haven't seen it): two teams that are traditionally top in their country but undergo serious dificulties right now..

I guess the 1-1 was a good result for Feyenoord though, considering the state they are in.

Heerenveen drawing in Pamplona against Osasuna is a really nice result, eventhough Osasuna was way better. AZ's home win of 3-0 against Braga doesn't really give a right indication of difference in strength I've heard, but it's a good result for them and Dutch football. 6 UEFA-coefficient points from four matches, of which 3 were played away. Not bad I guess.

Some unexpecting results last night.

Maccabi Haifa winning 3-1 against Auxerre was a big surprise for me.

But the biggest surprise was the 1-4 victory of Zulte-Waregem over Austria Vienna. Ok, Austria has a terrible season-start, but if you would compare budgets, for example, Austria should always win. Anyway a great result for this small Belgian Club. :goodjob:

Club Bruges drew 1-1 against Leverkusen. Not a bad result on paper, but if you saw the match Club deserved more...

I really think the biggest suprise was Rangers beating Liverno. I mean........................... it's Rangers!!?? We've had a few bad games but, just like last year, when it comes to Europe we stand out. Brilliant gamre with some brilliant performances, and it's always good to see wee Nacho Novo get a goal, I really like the wee guy. Good result overall but just like normal, we couldn't hae it easy, we just HAD to let a goal in a few minutes from time just to give the supporters that few minutes of pure terror

Should have been an interesting match between Feyenoord and FC Basel (haven't seen it): two teams that are traditionally top in their country but undergo serious dificulties right now..

I guess the 1-1 was a good result for Feyenoord though, considering the state they are in.

it was a horrible game, IMHO.
Feyenoord was extremely passive (it seems that they were quite content with the draw), and Basel was just incapable of taking advantage of that. Any halfway decent european team should have wiped Feyenoord off the field yesterday :(
I fear what happens to Basel if (when?) Petric leaves.....

and to top it off, Basel was playing in blue/white...wtf? :run:

it was a horrible game, IMHO.
Feyenoord was extremely passive (it seems that they were quite content with the draw), and Basel was just incapable of taking advantage of that. Any halfway decent european team should have wiped Feyenoord off the field yesterday :(

Of course. Feyenoord is even worse than in the previous 3 'build-up-a-new-team' years.

The only game they can still achieve their usual level for is the one against Ajax I think. So it's going to be a tough match sunday. ;)

The only game they can still achieve their usual level for is the one against Ajax I think. So it's going to be a tough match sunday. ;)

I hope so, well, it can't be worse then against Basel.

I hope so, well, it can't be worse then against Basel.

Probably not, no...

But, does anyone understand why Feyenoord has bought Leonard? I mean, if we're going to build up a team for next season, then why not play the 19 year old kid with a lot of potential? Now we're playing a 31 year old guy with a history of temper control troubles. And IMHO he sucked last night. We'd be better off playing Drenthe.

Of course. Feyenoord is even worse than in the previous 3 'build-up-a-new-team' years.

The only game they can still achieve their usual level for is the one against Ajax I think. So it's going to be a tough match sunday. ;)

Lots of classics to be played in Europe this weekend it seems:
Feyenoord-Ajax
Manchester Utd-Liverpool
Sporting-FC Porto
Real Madrid-Barcelona
Werder Bremen-Bayern
Marseille-Lyon

Great football weekend indeed.

^ Hey, your are forgetting Roeselare - Cercle Brugge !!! :lol:

About Leonard. It's also a mystery to me why he is still in the national team. It used to be a decent, hard defender, but nowadays he is just too slow and has to make too much fouls. Besides he's worth nothing in the build-up play.

and to top it off, Basel was playing in blue/white...wtf? :run:

You heard the speaker, they promised they'll never wear it again... ;) (well, they decided they won't wear it again). We'll see.

As for the match, *duhh*, I won't say more.

You speak of that awful player Leonard. Well he was the one to injure one of our players (totally unnecessary). Seems like he really can't hold his temper...

Anyways, it was round one, doesn't have to mean anything...

mitsho

Lots of classics to be played in Europe this weekend it seems:


Eh ?! Hibs-Hearts was last weekend....:rolleyes:

We also have PSV-AZ, which has become a top game as well (far from a classic though).

Of course. Feyenoord is even worse than in the previous 3 'build-up-a-new-team' years.

The only game they can still achieve their usual level for is the one against Ajax I think. So it's going to be a tough match sunday. ;)

Well, it wasn't :mad:

It surely wasn't. :D It was Feyenoord's worst match so far maybe.. and Ajax easiest I guess.

So, does anyone care to tell the story of their club? I had a game myself, which almost got out of control haha.. none of our players left the field uninjured..but I did make the equaliser in the dying seconds so. :p

I didn't see Ajax, but 3-0 seems like the expected result. Heerenveen was really bad and can forget the next round after a 0-2 loss against Odense from Denmark (what is it with Danish clubs this year??), and AZ played a very attractive match against Grasshoppers, which they won 2-5 in Zürich. First half Grasshoppers was the better side, and got the lead, but within 10 minutes of the second half, AZ had jumped to a 2-1 lead. Grasshoppers kept on fighting though, and equalised. In the 79th minute a fast attack lead to the 2-3, the 2-4 was scored from a counter (Swiss goalie had gone forward for a corner, AZ breaks, goalie even got time to get back in the goal, but still AZ scored)..and the last goal I missed because I had to go to my own match. :)

oh my, not our night I guess. Basel played a good first half, was even the better team, but Petric failed to score on several golden opportunities.

in the second half the tide turned, now Blackburn was the better team...unfortuantely they didn't miss their chances (though I still believe that the penalty was a dive...not that it matters now...)

:(

Not my team, but they played in the stadium of my favorite club. Zulte-Waregem beat Sparta Prague 3-1. This is unbelievable. They played in the third league a couple of seasons ago. Last season they managed fourth place, something nobody expected in Belgium. It seemed like beginners luck as they had a terrible start of the season this year. But look, in the European campaign they beat renowned teams like Lokomotiv Moskou, Austria Wien and now Sparta Prague. It's almost impossible that they will miss the next stage...

So Ajax, watch out, Zulte-Waregem is gonna eat you alive!! :mwaha:

So Ajax, watch out, Zulte-Waregem is gonna eat you alive!! :mwaha:

By that time Ajax should be qualified for the next round anyway.

Braga won 4-0 against S Liberec. I didn't watch the game, just saw the goals, but you can't argue with a 4-0. :) Their campaign is back on track, and that means that in this round portuguese clubs remaining won 3 games and drew 1, which is a good result.

what is it with Danish clubs this year??

They get to play dutch clubs often? :mischief:

I'm happy Feyenoord didn't have to play, hopefully, they'll be better in a few weeks.

They get to play dutch clubs often? :mischief:

Well, that would've been the explanation if FCK hadn't won against Manchester United as well.

Well, that would've been the explanation if FCK hadn't won against Manchester United as well.

Dutch goalies then?

Hehe, Vandenbussche of Heerenveen is Belgian.

Try again. :p

Dutch-speaking goalies?

too far fetched

Ok, either dutch players or clubs or whatever. It definitely is a dutch thing though. :p

i still think it has to do with the Danes

But FK Copenhagen's best player and scorer against Man Utd is a swede. :D And it was still a dutch goalie on the other side. :p

..it must be because so many FCK players have experience in the Dutch league.

now that was a curious end for the game Basel - Nancy

in the 92nd minute it was 2-2 when Nancy launches a counter and Basels keeper Costanzo stops the attacker with a foul, getting Red and a penalty shot. Basel's star player Petric took his place ..... and held the penalty :lol:

not that it changes that much, in the last round pretty much everything has to end right for basel to still make it....

Besiktas beat Club Brugge 2-1, So a draw against Bayer Leverkusen is enough to see us through.

If Feyenoord would make it, they'd be kicked out anyway probably :cry:

We weren't, I guess we were lucky, and of course, it wasn't really Feyenoords fault, Nancy allowed the fans to enter the stadium.

Yeah well, still.. Feyenoord can't go freely of course. Nice action though; Feyenoord's only win in this years UEFA Cup edition (in 6 games), and it brings them to the second round!

Acceptable 3-0 win of Ajax over Zulte-Waregem by the way. Those Belgians really kept running and running, but it was clear who was the better team. Great performance by AZ by the way, at least in result. Haven't seen the match just yet.

Hey willem, now if that ain't a reason for a comeback post... ;)

Feyenoord- Tottenham will be hard for Feyenoord.
Ajax- Werder Well, Werder finished just behind Barca and Chelsea, so this one is going to be hard too.

Draw for the last 32:

Zulte Waregem v Newcastle
Braga v Parma
Lens v Panathinaikos
Leverkusen v Blackburn
Hapoel Tel Aviv v Rangers
Livorno v Espanyol
Feyenoord v Tottenham
Fenerbahce v AZ Alkmaar
Werder Bremen v Ajax
Spartak Moscow v Celta Vigo
CSKA Moscow v Maccabi Haifa
AEK Athens v PSG
Benfica v Dinamo Bucharest
Steaua Bucharest v Sevilla
Shakhtar v Nancy
Bordeaux v Osasuna


(Ties to be played 14/15 & 22 February)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Draw for the last 16:

Zulte Waregem or Newcastle v Fenerbahce or AZ Alkmaar
CSKA Moscow or Maccabi Haifa v Livorno or Espanyol
Hapoel Tel Aviv or Rangers v Bordeaux or Osasuna
Braga or Parma v Feyenoord or Tottenham
Steaua Bucharest or Sevilla v Shakhtar or Nancy
Lens or Panathinaikos v Leverkusen or Blackburn
AEK Athens or PSG v Benfica or Dinamo Bucharest
Spartak Moscow or Celta Vigo v Werder Bremen or Ajax

I'd guess Newcastle, Espanyol, Rangers, Tottenham, Steaua (?), Panathinaikos, Benfica, & Werder for the quarterfinals.

My guesses, underlined wins last 32 match, bold wins last 16 match

Zulte Waregem or Newcastle v Fenerbahce or AZ Alkmaar
CSKA Moscow or Maccabi Haifa v Livorno or Espanyol
Hapoel Tel Aviv or Rangers v Bordeaux or Osasuna
Braga or Parma v Feyenoord or Tottenham
Steaua Bucharest or Sevilla v Shakhtar or Nancy
Lens or Panathinaikos v Leverkusen or Blackburn
AEK Athens or PSG v Benfica or Dinamo Bucharest
Spartak Moscow or Celta Vigo v Werder Bremen or Ajax

Where's Hitro at! :D

Here. ;)

My guess for today is 2-2.

Well well well.. this is gonna be a long post boys.

Blame other factors - part
As any fan of any team that just lost big in an important game, I will start this post by blaming anyone, but my team. Although I must admit Werder Bremen was the better team, as expected, there is no way anyone on the pitch could have been sure about that header that was counted as the second goal. Vernon Anita's toes are on the line, and he gets the ball away with his leg. The ball just could not have passed the line. Ajax got its fair share of yellow cards, but there were some instances in which Werder would have deserved a few themselves. The diving actions of Klose (just one or two) and especially Diego (just twenty or thirty) were just sickening. One yellow card for diving in the entire game is by far not enough.

The more realistic view
Although there is a core of truth in what I said above, it wouldn't have mattered very much. Werder Bremen were better in 11 vs 11, and they were better in 11 vs 10. They were not as good as I imagined though. Most of the first half, Werder did not really get any good chances. Most they got were shots from 2nd line, which were usually 3-4 meters wide. The free kick on the post in the 3rd minute by, I think, Nando, was probably the biggest chance. The second half was a different picture. A fast goal from a corner, which was a combination of incompatible decissions of defender and goalkeeper, and a goal that might not have been one. The third one was obvious, and I actually have to credit Heitinga for even being able to touch that ball. Ajax had this coming..and I will now explain why:

The bigger picture
The bigger picture. For this game Ajax could not use almost its entire defence. Emanuelson has a knee injury, Vermaelen is out for a few weeks, Grygera has some trouble as well and won't be back for another week or two either, and Ogararu was suspended if I remember correctly. Davids played about 20 minutes for Tottenham earlier this season, so he couldn't play either.

Left with very few options, Ten Cate decided to do one of the most stupid things I have ever seen him do. He decided to change the system... to 3-5-2. With only Stam and Heitinga left for defence, he decided to put Spanish midfielder Roger as the left central defender. A ridiculous choice, until you remember that Ajax did not have any defenders left. He might have put Maduro a line back, but all acceptable youth players (Schilder, Vertonghen) are on loan at small teams in the Dutch league.

On the midfield he played Sneijder, who is the best man at the moment, and Gabri with a whole bunch of mediocre players. Hedwiges Maduro hasn't played a good game for one year and a half, Olaf Lindenbergh I can't remember ever playing a good game, and Donald.. well.. Ajax had to ask his mother to pick him up from the day-care center. The boy has never even played a game on a higher level than the A1 youth squad. This was supposed to be the mighty midfield that would secure Werder Bremen. The only one who did his job, was Gabri. Diego wasn't able to do much.

The attack was shaped by Babel and De Mul. This is not even an unlogical choice, if you take 3-5-2 in mind. De Mul is fast and is able to create danger, Babel seems to be in a bit better shape than Huntelaar and at least passes ok. I would have prefered the couple Leonardo Huntelaar though. Huntelaar the killer who's at the right spot, Leonardo the one drawing 3 defenders while dribbling.

Now the problems. 3-5-2? The defence with only two real defenders, and a midfield with Lindenbergh. The man has very limited capacities and is pissed off because everyone is better than him, which causes him to be a regular..on the bench. He gets his chance, and then makes two stupid fouls and gets his second yellow about 20 minutes into the game. How stupid is that? Up until that moment, the Ajax defence had survived, but the ball never passed midfield. Both Babel and De Mul were nowhere to be found, Sneijder was covered. Ajax obviously could not rely on any automatisms, since the entire tactical sheme had been reworked to something I have never seen at Ajax before. Not to mention A1 player Donald, who has never played any other system but 4-3-3 in his entire life.

Down one man, Ajax started to defend more and more. Werder Bremen actually became less dangerous after the red card. Most shots were wide, and there were no direct confrontations between goalkeeper and striker. Werder Bremen played pretty bad as well actually. There wasn't really a system, passes were somewhat ineffective.. but still they were way better than Ajax. Ajax was lost, didn't really know what it was doing, and seemed to accept that they would never get a chance to make a goal.

The second half continued like this..though very shortly. The 1-0 didn't have a chance to break open the game, because the 2-0 followed so fast after it. At this stage Ten Cate could have done what he did only after the 3-0; take a chance. He put in Perez and Leonardo for Donald and Maduro (eg. attacking midfielder and winger for defensive midfielders), but of course it did not matter anymore. Only at this stage Werder started to creat really big chances. I can't remember how many times they hit the bar, the post, or the goalkeeper. In the end, 3-0 seems to be a very small score for the number of chances Werder had in the last 20 minutes.

Blessings
Any blessings from this game? Maybe one. 17 year old midfielder Vernon Anita came in for De Mul to take over Lindenbergh's place after the red card. The positive side is that he did not play bad. Of course he wasn't really good either, and he certainly could not make the difference, but in a Ajax playing this bad (worst under Ten Cate so far in my opinion) no one could expect such a thing from a boy this age. Also Stekelenburg, the Ajax goalie, wasn't all that bad.

Conclusion
In the end it was a case of Ten Cate not responding well to a long list of injured players. The tactical solutions he came up with, were just rubish. In theory, with the first 11 of Ajax, it could have worked. The first 11 of Ajax isn't even that much worse than the first 11 of Werder.. but with these players.. Maduro, Lindenbergh and a boy from the A1 playing on key positions that should master Werder's midfield... not a chance.

Nice post, I'll give my view on the match. May not be as long, but we'll see.

In general

Given the result and also the way the match went I am relieved but also very content with Werder's performace. Ajax however were rather disappointing.

This started from the very beginning. Ten Cate had obviously seen our matches against Schalke and Stuttgart and had realised - especially from the first - that aggressive defensive play with fast counter attacks is the way to beat Werder. Theoretically that might be a smart analysis but in practice this meant sacrificing the (as far as I know) otherwise creative style of play for one that oriented itself on the opposition, not one's own strength. Gabri played a de facto marksman for Diego, unusual in modern football and almost bizarre if you are Ajax with the respective image.
The other result of that was the immense brutality in the first half. This has been the worst I have seen in that regard on a high level international match except maybe for the Portugal vs. Holland encounter at the last World Cup.
Sadly for Lindenbergh he was the one to bear most of the referee's response to it, while his two cards were well deserved at least the first one could have been decided otherwise, compared with the things the referee didn't award cards for. Especially Roger should have seen at least one and Gabri should not have ended the match on the pitch. This leads to:

The referee

While I mostly agreed with willem's post above I strongly disagree with him on this. Diego's card for "diving" (I actually think he got it for "acting") was a joke, that was in fact a foul and even if you decide differently it certainly is not diving. Generally Diego tends to fall down easily, but diving is a different thing. And it also has to be considered that Ajax committed about ten yellow card worthy fouls against him alone...
With Klose I have no idea what willem refers to. It should be known beyond Germany now that Klose is almost ridiculously fair and never dives. I mean, the man once went to the referee telling him he just slipped when the referee had already awarded a penalty. And that at 0-0...
Maybe you mean that scene in the second half where he fell down in the area. But that clearly wasn't diving, he just slipped and got up again, nobody demanded a penalty or anything like that.

As far as I could see it the second goal was not in. It was hard to tell - even on TV - but I think the ball was not fully over the line.

A few notes on the bigger picture

Ajax surely missed a few good players and certainly that didn't help them. We however also missed three usual starters (Baumann, Borowski, Klasnic) plus the non-eligible Rosenberg. Overall there was just one non-defense player on the bench, being Almeida.
Still I do think (as said above) that Ten Cate's approach of trying to react to potential threats by the opposition instead of focusing on his own strengths was the real mistake. Also not bringing on Huntelaar in a phase where clearly a single man's genius action could have been the only thing to save Ajax - and that despite taking off Babel - was something I didn't really understand.
Werder were irritated by the recent losses, he failed to capitalise on that.

The match beyond the technicalities

Werder's bad form of the last weeks was obvious here, too. At least in the first half, that is. As willem said few real chances were created, Naldo hitting the post in the 3rd minute followed by Klose missing the empty net was the best one in the first half.
Now one could say Werder forced Ajax into committing loads of fouls, subsequently resulting in them losing a player and eventually the match, but it is hard to tell how much of that was really the result of the game or rather of a premade decision to be overaggressive. After all it started from the first minute.
That leads to Ajax who, while defending very concentrated, created almost no offense action. Certainly not after the rather early red card but also not before.

Werder thus controlled the match practically for its whole duration. Nevertheless preventable defense blunders gave Ajax a handful of chances which they should have used at least once. Wiese saved them well.

The same can't be said about Steklenburg who looked rather weak on set pieces. Thus it was no coincidence that Werder scored twice that way. That it didn't work any other way up to then is testament both Werder's irritation and Ajax good defensive organisation. After those two goals within a few minutes Ajax were broken.
While they had already made astonishingly simple mistakes before (in tennis they would be called "unforced errors") after the 2-0 that became the norm. Probably a mental problem, when you see it floating away, especially with the controversial second goal.

Werder managed to take advantage of this once (here Klose's unselfish play has to be pointed out once again) but should have done so much more often. As unlikely as it sounds for a match that was 0-0 at half time it should have been 6-0 in the end. Diego hitting the bar and Almeida hitting the keeper twice were the worst examples.

Conclusion

If you beat a big team like Ajax 3-0 and could have won higher everything should be fine. But the result should not cloud the view on the problems that still exist, and there are several of them. But the fighting spirit was at least on a top level this time.
When this round of the UEFA Cup is concerned it should be enough to advance. But you never know, Werder will almost certainly think it is all over and if Ajax scores early, well...

Not a chance. Werder Bremen is through, and that's it.

I do like to stress that this was nothing like the Ajax I know. The anti-football was horrible, and it was close to making any football loving person cry I think. As for Klose, maybe I mistook him for Hunt. Could be. Stekelenburg... it's not the set pieces he is bad at. It's balls coming in high, mainly from the side..

Well, that second match sucked for sure. Nevertheless, at least we made it. Celta is next.

all I will say is........... wooooo

Well, that second match sucked for sure. Nevertheless, at least we made it. Celta is next.

But you have to agree that it was a lot more attractive than the match in Bremen. The difference between the Ajax there and the one in the second leg was obvious, but I think Bremen was as well playing better. I do believe Wiese was the most important player on the Bremen side, being the only one preventing a 5-1.. on the other hand, Almeida did have a few very, very good chances when the score was still 1-1. In the end I think Ajax did deserve the win, but Werder deserved to advance. I'm just glad people got to see that Ajax is not like it played in Bremen.

The referee was a bit childish by the way. The only yellow card that was deserved is the one Huntelaar got, although I do not think he intended to slap the defender in that case.

But you have to agree that it was a lot more attractive than the match in Bremen. The difference between the Ajax there and the one in the second leg was obvious, but I think Bremen was as well playing better.
:eek:
No, certainly not. The second half was the worst I have seen from the team in many years, possibly ever in a UEFA Cup match.

And the first half was boring, after our goal the match was (or rather, should have been) over and that was obvious as Ajax didn't really push for anything anymore. Only after the 60th minute and the complete collapse of our team they realised that there really still is a chance. Fortunately too late.

Hehehe ok. I guess the only conclusion we can draw is that both our judgements are obviously influenced by how our teams did in the game.

Would have preferred it to stay at 4-1 rather than ending 4-2 but can't be disappointed. AZ didn't look that impressive and an in-form Newcastle is a match for any team on their day, I think we will roll them over in Holland.

Don't be too sure. AZ indeed did not look very impressive, I don't know what has gotten into them, but it looked a lot like they underestimated Newcastle (wtf?!?!)... and well, their main weakness is the defence.

And as we have just learned, AZ never lost a european game at home. ;)

Well we dont need to win thankfully ;)

better be impressed now ;)

Humbug. We rolled over, was pretty poor effort if you ask me. Still, the season hasn't been terrible considering the horrific injury list, so can't complain too much.

Hmm, Newcastle's failure leaves me getting 4 out of 8 quarterfinalists from the last 32 draw. Not too shabby, but now much to crow about either.

Hmm, Alkmaar are next. Certainly more of a big team than of a big name. That will be tough.

It's like playing Ajax..with the difference that AZ won't be playing like idiots in Bremen (hopefully).