The original post:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=4487889#post4487889

The last comment:
yeah well i bet the odds of orthus winning were like 99.99%
so the odds of the warrior winning were like 0.01 rounded up to o.o%
jeese, how much xp did the warrior get???

Without the Barb XP limit, he gets 112 XP.

- Niilo

Move over Branding, there's a new hero in town!!

I don't know if I've got the math right, but using the combat calculations explained in this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=137615), that warrior had approximately a 0.0000338% chance of killing Orthus without getting injured himself. Yikes.

- Niilo

Move over Branding, there's a new hero in town!!
Move over Cassiel - there's someone here to replace you as leader! :)

- Niilo

a unit managing that feat (or any battle with 0.0000338% odds) should get the heroic promotion :p

Wow a whole thread created over one kill. If you guys thought that kill was crazy, I reloaded the game and got an even crazier result, my scout killed Orthus. I remember reading that the woodsmen promotion had been modified to actually increase the strength of someone attacking either from or into (can't remember which) a forest/jungle. Could it have accidently affected all defense modifiers to be carried over but not be listed?

Wow a whole thread created over one kill. If you guys thought that kill was crazy, I reloaded the game and got an even crazier result, my scout killed Orthus. I remember reading that the woodsmen promotion had been modified to actually increase the strength of someone attacking either from or into (can't remember which) a forest/jungle. Could it have accidently affected all defense modifiers to be carried over but not be listed?
woodsman gives a bonus only when defending a forest/dschungle or attacking a forest/jungle
(attacking from that jungle gave no bonus-you just had rip roaring odds)

Yes, if you look at the combat log, your warrior was doing 11 HP damage with each hit, and hit Orthus 10 times in a row. That fits with the relative strengths that are shown in your screen shot.

Orthus, on the other hand, would have inflicted 35 HP per hit, and would only have needed 3 hits.

- Niilo

Aww I thought I might have been on to something. Oh well, at least it can't be doubted that you should always have a backup plan in a military conflict, even if your people are 8 times as powerful as the enemy.

a unit managing that feat (or any battle with 0.0000338% odds) should get the heroic promotion :p
I've always thought that units that get up to a certain threshold (100+ XP) should get access to some promotions that others can't get.

- Niilo

How about 50 + XP in one kill gives Heroic str 1 promotion; 100+ Xp in one kill gives heroic str 1 & 2.

And I guess it was bound to happen eventually. 0.01% means in one win in 10,000 battles at those odds. How many poor warriors has Orthus slaughtered since FfH 1?

How about 50 + XP in one kill gives Heroic str 1 promotion; 100+ Xp in one kill gives heroic str 1 & 2.

And I guess it was bound to happen eventually. 0.01% means in one win in 10,000 battles at those odds. How many poor warriors has Orthus slaughtered since FfH 1?
ya something like that would be good. itd be nice especially for underdogs, since theyd be fighting odds against them already, but if they got lucky they could get heroes out of it :D

Man after some testing of things I just found out why I kept winning when I attacked Orthus even though my chances were 0.0%. This is going to sound really lame but the reason was because that game was meant for me to test something out so I had set the difficulty down to settler. Apparently there is a code or something with settler to warlord difficulty which makes the player automatically win any attack against a barbarian unit. Defend is another story. Found that out after creating several games from settler to warlord difficulty and being able to kill barbarian Meshaber, Avatar of Wrath, and Mithril Golem without recieving any damage while using a warrior or scout.

Guess I kind of wasted everyone's time with that so I apologize for that.

lol what a stupid code :crazyeye:

Man after some testing of things I just found out why I kept winning when I attacked Orthus even though my chances were 0.0%. This is going to sound really lame but the reason was because that game was meant for me to test something out so I had set the difficulty down to settler. Apparently there is a code or something with settler to warlord difficulty which makes the player automatically win any attack against a barbarian unit. Defend is another story. Found that out after creating several games from settler to warlord difficulty and being able to kill barbarian Meshaber, Avatar of Wrath, and Mithril Golem without recieving any damage while using a warrior or scout.

Guess I kind of wasted everyone's time with that so I apologize for that.
... it's like you just killed Santa Claus... :cry:
edit: ;)

... it's like you just killed Santa Claus... :cry:

Whoa jeez I said I apologize. At least we all know that there is such a code or condition or whatever so maybe someone might decide to make some kind of unpredictable trigger to make use of the code so that it SEEMED like you were going have to commit suicide only to have the unit come out super uberized.

Could we rename the thread, "Gamestation's depressingly possible kill?" :p

Well, close enough. :banana:

Talking about impossible odds: Once I had a fight on monarch level, where a barbarian lizard man with no promotions killed my Combat 1 Hill Giant on a plain. *sob* Incredible depressing. Especially because he captured one of my cities the turn after. :-/

Barbarian lizardman actually has pretty good odds against your hill giant.

Lizardman: 6 strength. +100% vs Animals (Includes all members of Beast combat type)
Hill Giant: 7.2 strength. +20% (Combat 1)

Also, if I interpreted the thread about combat odds and mechanics correctly, bonuses against specific units increase in power when attacking units of that type who are higher in strength than you.

But I'm not 100% sure of that bit.

Hm, never thought about "vs Animals" as effective against beasts, but nice to know. But there is a little flaw in your calculation, Grillick. Just checked the Civilopedia and Hill Giants are melee units, not beasts. Should change the odds dramatically.

they count as animals, i dont think animals are a combat group type

Actually there is a combat type for Animals, all animals (bears, lions, etc) and Werewolfs are of that category.

weird, because the vs. animals works against skelettes and giants too

Ya thats weird are you sure they aren´t animals too ?

They use the animal ai thingy so that they don't come into borders - maybe the bonus is connected to that.

I'm pretty sure Hill Giants are Melee (I've got Shock-bonuses against the Stooges in my current game). Don't know about skeletons though. But I think it is possible to set a default AI type to a unit independently of its unitcombat type.

ya, vs. animals doesnt mean they need animal class, and ive tested it, scouts regularly win against skelettes

like how theres no elven class, but theres a versus elves

Thats because of the Elven promotion...

I recently tested this in the worldbuilder. The "vs animals" scouts and rangers get works against skeletons and giants. But the "+25% vs animal units" you get from the subdue animal promotion does not work.
Oh and shock works against giants but not against skeletons.

I recently tested this in the worldbuilder. The "vs animals" scouts and rangers get works against skeletons and giants. But the "+25% vs animal units" you get from the subdue animal promotion does not work.

I don't know if that is intentional, but I think it's appropriate, personally.

I recently tested this in the worldbuilder. The "vs animals" scouts and rangers get works against skeletons and giants. But the "+25% vs animal units" you get from the subdue animal promotion does not work.
Oh and shock works against giants but not against skeletons.

Very strange! Seems someone should clear up this a bit more.

I want to say that losing on 99.9% is still possible. And winning is still possible with 0.01.

I would love it if the unit was simply given the "hero" promotion and a little screen came up with which to name the unit. (Prompting you instead of merely letting you). Just merely having grand "normal" units climb the latter to hero status is just too cool.

Instead of XP questions - maybe anything under 1% odds gains you the hero promotion. Which would mean you'd have to have 100 battles AT 1% odds (how often is that?) before you are likely to win once. Then a little hero emerges from the rubble. Fantastic!
-Qes

EDIT: I have this wonderful notion that whenever a unit "gains" the hero promotion the "Zelda" theme song should play. What could be more heroic?

Watch someone play in Settler difficulty and get a hundred heroes...

I think it might be best if the Grigori had a monopoly on normal unit heroes.

Watch someone play in Settler difficulty and get a hundred heroes...

I think it might be best if the Grigori had a monopoly on normal unit heroes.

Yeah, so they play on settler and get 100 heros. But honestly if your playing settler your prolly not playing to exploit. If your playing to exploit, your prolly not playing settler.

Plus is it possible to take that little settler-barbarian code out? That seems a bit rediculous.

And the grigori still would have I hope, the normal unit monopoly. Becuase it'd just be "too rare" for normal units to become heros.
-Qes

could make it so theres one special hero who only appears in the game if someone wins at 0.01 odds, but only once, so the first person to win horrible odds gains that hero

could make it so theres one special hero who only appears in the game if someone wins at 0.01 odds, but only once, so the first person to win horrible odds gains that hero

That sounds reasonable. But, at the same time, anyone who wins those odds, SHOULD be treated to a feast!

at 0.01 odds its so unlikely that A) it'll almost never happen B) its not drool worthy and C)if it ever happened, youd be desperate to see if you could get it to happen again (and it wont). It'd be PURELY flavor. Prolly not worth putting it in.
-Qes

Like "The Undying One" :crazyeye:

Edit: lol lol lol I just killed Orthus with my umpromoted Thane of Kyllmorph !!!! (Prince diff)

Of course Orthuss was at 2,2 str, but even so I had 0,3% odds of winning I think... LoL my Thane got 100 exp !!! ^^

I lost a hero once with a 100% chance of winning :(

I lost a hero once with a 100% chance of winning :(
Only once ? :D

That sounds reasonable. But, at the same time, anyone who wins those odds, SHOULD be treated to a feast!

at 0.01 odds its so unlikely that A) it'll almost never happen B) its not drool worthy and C)if it ever happened, youd be desperate to see if you could get it to happen again (and it wont). It'd be PURELY flavor. Prolly not worth putting it in.
-Qes

I'm thinking, bringing back Armies and Great Leaders from civ3 (combined strength and such).

Think of an army of Adventurers :D

I'm thinking, bringing back Armies and Great Leaders from civ3 (combined strength and such).

Think of an army of Adventurers :D
Only we'd have to call them partys. And when you added a unit to one, it'd play the ff "join party" music.

Only we'd have to call them partys. And when you added a unit to one, it'd play the ff "join party" music.

What music would that be?

Party like its 1999? Fight for your right to party? Stayin alive?
-Qes

No from final fantasy when a new character joins the party. But stayin alive might work if you added a disciple, I guess.

No from final fantasy when a new character joins the party. But stayin alive might work if you added a disciple, I guess.

Maybe the Lanun should have the "In the navy" song for joining up in the "party"
-Qes

Hm... Actually I like the idea of normal units being able to be promoted to heroes
Or what about some heroes coming up as great people
Like if you get a great person there is a chance it will be a normal one or a hero related to that area
Like a great prophet could inset be a holy warrior hero or something simmiler.
I just thing the training of a hero feels a little silly and unheroic.
But that is me.

*Raise Dead*

Barbarian lizardman actually has pretty good odds against your hill giant.

Lizardman: 6 strength. +100% vs Animals (Includes all members of Beast combat type)
Hill Giant: 7.2 strength. +20% (Combat 1)

Also, if I interpreted the thread about combat odds and mechanics correctly, bonuses against specific units increase in power when attacking units of that type who are higher in strength than you.

But I'm not 100% sure of that bit.

bonuses refering to your enemy are counted negatively against your enemies score
(-80% for the giant, calculated as 100%/180% for the giant)

lizardman 3 str
giant...... 3.33 str(repeating)

*Raise Dead*
I'm afraid that you'd have to be a very high level in order to use Raise Dead effectively in this case. Obviously, Resurrection was used, or perhaps Wish.

Or he just poked it with a stick until it got up again =O

Hm... Actually I like the idea of normal units being able to be promoted to heroes
Or what about some heroes coming up as great people
Like if you get a great person there is a chance it will be a normal one or a hero related to that area
Like a great prophet could inset be a holy warrior hero or something simmiler.
I just thing the training of a hero feels a little silly and unheroic.
But that is me.

I think, instead of having a separate type of great person, the Grigori should have unique versions of each great person, each of which can upgrade into a different base unit.

Engineers become warriors, bards become scouts, sages become adepts, prophets become prophets, and merchants become horsemen.

Not bad, but I don't see why Engineers should become warriors. It would make much more sense for them to upgrade to "mechanical" units, i.e., ships and siege engines, that could use their technical know-how. I also don't see why Great Prophets should become prophet units, since the agnostic trait makes these unbuildable and unable to upgrade to religion-specific disciple units. It would make more sense for them to become melee units, since that line eventually leads to the Gregori's special disciple unit, the Luonnatar.