View Full Version : The Islamic Gamble


RegentMan
Sep 05, 2006, 11:48 AM
Do we go for Divine Right in order to discover Islam? Poll options:

Yes - Immediately Switch
Yes - But Finish Guilds First
No - Do Not Go For Divine Right
Abstain

The poll will be open for 48 hours (would be longer, but this issue must be decided by the turnchat) and is public. The discussion can be found here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=184902).

robboo
Sep 05, 2006, 12:52 PM
I have issues with this poll...It should be yes or no. I want NO but essentially you are splitting up the yes votes..


I know its the time crunch but maybe the first poll should have been "Switch to DR right now" or "finish guilds". Then follow it up with (assuming a stay on guilds) do we want to research DR next.

I have stated my reasons in the discussion. I hope everyone reads it. There has been good discussion on both sides of the argument.

GeorgeOP
Sep 05, 2006, 06:39 PM
We have the Almighty Chip to lead our nation. We don't need this Allah guy.

ice2k4
Sep 06, 2006, 08:02 AM
For the Jihad!!!

Actually I voted no, and agreed with robboo. The results are close enough. If no wins, then people will contest that more people voted yes, but the votes were split. Maybe we should delay the turnchat.

robboo
Sep 06, 2006, 08:45 AM
I disagree on delaying..because technically more people voted for keep on guilds

In addition I think we should revote after guilds..I may have a different opinion then and decide on the gamble.

dutchfire
Sep 06, 2006, 10:15 AM
Agree, big majority votes keep researching guilds, then put in your orders

If Islam isn't founded at that moment, start researching Divine Right.

robboo
Sep 06, 2006, 10:36 AM
then revote before next TC to see if we should go for it...However if it is foudned we should STOP after we get guilds.

dutchfire
Sep 06, 2006, 11:02 AM
One problem is that guilds will be finished in approximately 8 turns, making this tc shorter than the much wanted 10 turns.

Oldbus
Sep 06, 2006, 11:04 AM
I voted no - I think we should go for guilds and banking

dutchfire
Sep 06, 2006, 11:12 AM
at the moment it's 50-50 between yes and no, what will we do if it stays this way? Coin flip? :p

Oldbus
Sep 06, 2006, 11:43 AM
Pray for inspiration... :mischief:

DaveShack
Sep 06, 2006, 11:50 AM
Ask your friendly censor how it should be interpreted. :D

This could go two ways -- invalid because the options are not properly stated, or scored using cumulative scoring. I think we should go with cumulative scoring for the immediate decision, which is to switch now or not to switch now.

For the benefit of anyone who might not have come across cumulative scoring yet, you start at one end, and stop when the total vote counting from that end exceeds 50%. The point where you stopped becomes the decision point.

Right now we have
yes 3
after guilds 2
no 5

If we count from the yes end, the 1st option which exceeds 50% is no.
If we count from the no end, the 1st option which exceeds 50% is after guilds.

At present we would require a runoff between no and after guilds. Obviously it can't be counted now, it needs to wait for the poll to close. In any case, the switch immediately answer has to get more than 50% on its own before we'd be approving the immediate switch.

I will note without acting that a citizen may attempt to overrule this referendum by posting an initiative.

donsig
Sep 06, 2006, 04:05 PM
Ask your friendly censor how it should be interpreted. :D

This could go two ways -- invalid because the options are not properly stated, or scored using cumulative scoring. I think we should go with cumulative scoring for the immediate decision, which is to switch now or not to switch now.

I don't think our friendly censor's way of looking at this is appropriate. Whether a poll is valid or invalid does not depend on how the results are to be interpreted. A poll is either valid or invalid based on whther it follows the criteria in the censor's procedures. Beyond that I don't see anything in our laws that empowers the Censor to interpret polls results (much less to be THE sole authority on the interpretation of poll results).

For what it's worth, here is my take on this situation. This sure looks like a valid poll to me. The options seem pretty clear cut. They are not ambiguous. Nor is the poll unfair in any way. If the Censor chooses to invalidate this poll I would certainly challenge that in the judiciary (unless he came up with a convincing argument for invalidating it that I can't see right now).

As for interpreting the results I'd say robboo's remark makes a lot of sense. As of now more people have voted to continue researching guilds than have voted to switch so (unless the vote changes) we should continue on guilds. The vote is split down the middle on whether to go for divine right. We should discuss that more and see if we want to work on it after guilds.

I fail to see how any of this could be controversial or be a reason to hold up play.

DaveShack
Sep 06, 2006, 05:31 PM
Let me try this again. It could be considered invalid due to IIB of the polling standards, since there were people who didn't see how the poll should be interpreted.


II. Polling StandardsIIA. The description and initial post for all official polls should be stated in a clear and neutral manner.
IIB. The initial post should contain a link to all relevant discussion threads. Each option should be explained if not immediately clear. The time frame for the poll, and how the results will be interpreted should also be in the initial post.
IIC. All official polls must be open for a minimum of 2 days to be binding, however it is recommended that binding polls be open from 3 to 4 days if possible.
IID. Official polls should be marked Public unless directly concerning another Citizen.


As a service to the citizens, I volunteered to help out by supplying the missing information on how it should be interpreted, instead of marking it invalid. That information happens to match what at least two other people said.

donsig
Sep 06, 2006, 06:56 PM
As a service to the citizens, I volunteered to help out by supplying the missing information on how it should be interpreted, instead of marking it invalid. That information happens to match what at least two other people said.

If everyone is in agreements as to the interpretation then aren't the CoL polling standards satisfied and the poll valid?

DaveShack
Sep 08, 2006, 02:45 PM
This poll is validated.

The clearest result is "finish guilds". The result would support a decision to research divine right next. It would be acceptable, but not required, to follow up with another poll, because it is possible that finishing guilds would cause the "yes now" voters to change their position.