View Full Version : Complete overview tech-dependecy


Michelangelo
Sep 06, 2006, 08:38 AM
Description
Ever wondered which tech leads to which? Especially with the required tech not shown with a arrow makes it difficult to see at a glance.
For this I created a complete overview of all dependecies. This can greatly help in determining optimal research paths.

Features

Find for a certain technology which technologies depend on it.
Look up the tech in the left column and find all "X"-marked techs on that line
Find what technologies you need for a certain tech.
Look up the technology in the top row and find all "X"-marked technologies in the column
Dependecies can have seperate technologies as a "OR" requirement, making non of them as MUST. However it can be possible that these technologies themselves depend somewhere higher up the tree on 1 single technology. This is then also listed. (F.i. Mysticism is a MUST for Prieshood)
Great for instantly see what consequence banning of one tech has for your possibilities for variant games etc.
Optimized for A3 size


I've created a small program that creates this table directly from the Technology-XML. So it should also work for modified technology-trees.

But let me know what you think of this, information/layout/usefullness - wise.

DaveMcW
Sep 11, 2006, 09:58 AM
I started doing something like this once, but in the end I found it was easier to memorize all the tech icons and use the ingame tech tree.

A specific criticism of your method is it ignores the OR requirements. Meditation is the most expensive tech on the Mysticism->Meditation->Priesthood path!

Michelangelo
Sep 11, 2006, 01:20 PM
I started doing something like this once, but in the end I found it was easier to memorize all the tech icons and use the ingame tech tree.

I also find this true up to a certain level, allthough the "AND" requirements still trick me from time to time. So I wanted a "AND" tree.


A specific criticism of your method is it ignores the OR requirements. Meditation is the most expensive tech on the Mysticism->Meditation->Priesthood path!
As stated above, I specifically designed this for the "AND" requirement. So you can tell what techs you definitely need for a certain tech.

DaviddesJ
Sep 11, 2006, 01:26 PM
It seems that you have some bugs. E.g., Astronomy requires Optics, and Optics requires Machinery, and Machinery requires Metal Casting. But you don't show Metal Casting as a requirement for Astronomy.

For tracing tech requirements, you can use the tech tree on the CFC site that has all of the requirements shown with arrows:

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/techtree/index2.php

DaveMcW
Sep 11, 2006, 02:39 PM
I also find this true up to a certain level, allthough the "AND" requirements still trick me from time to time. So I wanted a "AND" tree.

The icon of the AND requirement is displayed in the upper right corner of the tech box.

allnightplayer
Sep 23, 2006, 10:55 AM
The icon of the AND requirement is displayed in the upper right corner of the tech box.


Could you explain that please? What 'tech box' are you talking about? The tech tree? I find it bizarre that the white arrows on the tech tree don't show the 'required' technologies to lead from one technology to another. If Masonry is necessary for monotheism, why is there no arrow connecting the two? And how can one determine all the 'optional' prerequisite techs for any particular tech?

DaveMcW
Sep 23, 2006, 12:27 PM
Look at the tech tree (F6). Masonry has an icon of a trowel on top of bricks in the upper left hand corner.

Now look at Monotheism. It also has a trowel-on-bricks icon, this time in the right hand corner. This means it requires Masonry.

The logic behind the tech tree is fairly complicated, more than white arrows can show. But that link DaviddesJ posted is helpful if you like arrows.

allnightplayer
Sep 23, 2006, 10:16 PM
Look at the tech tree (F6). Masonry has an icon of a trowel on top of bricks in the upper left hand corner.

Now look at Monotheism. It also has a trowel-on-bricks icon, this time in the right hand corner. This means it requires Masonry.

The logic behind the tech tree is fairly complicated, more than white arrows can show. But that link DaviddesJ posted is helpful if you like arrows.

Thanks Dave! Actually, when you said something like 'the icon for AND techs is on the right hand corner' in your earlier post, i thought that the tech tree graphic might have some sort of 'toggle icon' which one can press to alternately show either the 'required technologies' to lead from one tech to another, or the 'optional' technologies.

So right now, the White Arrows in the game's tech tree show WHAT exactly? They obviously don't show the 'required' techs to lead from X to Y (because for THAT one is supposed to look at the right hand corner of each tech's box, as you pointed out), but they also don't seem to show all 'optional' paths of moving down the tree (or am i missing something here?)

Thanks also for pointing me to DaviddesJ's link. I haven't yet had time to take a very good look at it, but i see that he has used coloured arrows to link 'required' techs (apart from the white arrows, which are the same as the game's original tech tree). Do the different colours (red, orange, blue, etc) have some significance? Or has he used more than one colour simply for aesthetic reasons...?

malekithe
Sep 23, 2006, 10:31 PM
So right now, the White Arrows in the game's tech tree show WHAT exactly?
The white arrows indicate "or" relationships. In order to research a tech, you are required to research at least one of the techs which has a white arrow leading to the desired tech.

In other words, Writing requires Pottery OR Animal Husbandry OR Priesthood.

DaviddesJ
Sep 23, 2006, 11:42 PM
Thanks also for pointing me to DaviddesJ's link. I haven't yet had time to take a very good look at it, but i see that he has used coloured arrows to link 'required' techs (apart from the white arrows, which are the same as the game's original tech tree). Do the different colours (red, orange, blue, etc) have some significance? Or has he used more than one colour simply for aesthetic reasons...?

I didn't make that graph. The person who did, used different colors simply to make it easier to follow the arrows. The colors have no significance.

allnightplayer
Sep 24, 2006, 11:19 AM
I didn't make that graph. The person who did, used different colors simply to make it easier to follow the arrows. The colors have no significance.

Noted! Thanks, guys...! It is clear now...:)

Michelangelo
Sep 27, 2006, 03:26 AM
It seems that you have some bugs. E.g., Astronomy requires Optics, and Optics requires Machinery, and Machinery requires Metal Casting. But you don't show Metal Casting as a requirement for Astronomy.

For tracing tech requirements, you can use the tech tree on the CFC site that has all of the requirements shown with arrows:

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/techtree/index2.php

Although I'm a bit late, thanx for poining this out. You're right about this, so I have to look at the logic behind creating this chart, obviously there's something missing :lol: