Why don't the water civs (e.g.lanun) be able to build cities in the water.

Because Kael wants the water to be a barrier, not land with other color.

Well, it's not as much a barrier in FfH as it is in vanilla (water walking, anyone?), and the Lanun are supposed to be masters of the sea. Giving them atolls would let them easily access something that the other civs have trouble with, like forests for the Ljosalfar and hills/peaks for the Khazad.

I'd say that an Atoll Builder UU would be nice, if only to give the Lanun some flavor. You could limit the atolls like the Kuriotate's settlements to keep them from getting too big.

and maybe coast tile only? interesting idea

How about we throw in an SDK mod that prevents ships from sinking if they're in your cultural borders?
This, coupled with the atoll idea would let the Lanun get in contact with other civs more quickly (larger cultural range) and thus establish lucrative trade deals more easily.

Historically most sea-based countries were also trading empires (just look at Spain and Britain), and that would fit quite well with the Lanun's theme. And piracy...ahh, don't get me started. ;)

ships sinking?

ive never seen ships sinking, and as long as they're in your borders they're allowed to go into ocean squares that are also within your borders.

Oh, so that's how it works?
Must've been my Civ3 mindset; never mind, no mod required. :p :lol:

Oh, so that's how it works?
Must've been my Civ3 mindset; never mind, no mod required. :p :lol:

I miss that "/

The Lanun are only mere pirates, how would they settle on water? I could see a ship yard with a lot of rope ladders and bridges, but an actual settlement?

I miss that "/

The Lanun are only mere pirates, how would they settle on water? I could see a ship yard with a lot of rope ladders and bridges, but an actual settlement?

Most people that want water cities want underwater cities which would require a merfolk civ. The problem with it is the same as having an underground (and flying), it would be an additional layer to the map that only some units to access.

Right now the game is basically 2d. Adding a 3rd dimension could be cool, but isnt in the plans anytime soon. If it did exist could do things like have a kraken swim under your opponents ships, etc. True domain functionality instead of how it is now.

Most people that want water cities want underwater cities which would require a merfolk civ. The problem with it is the same as having an underground (and flying), it would be an additional layer to the map that only some units to access.

Right now the game is basically 2d. Adding a 3rd dimension could be cool, but isnt in the plans anytime soon. If it did exist could do things like have a kraken swim under your opponents ships, etc. True domain functionality instead of how it is now.

With the "additional layer" problem, are there any VERY FAR DISTANT plans to try and implement something like this? For example, if a wonderful/magical programmer came along and said - "oh yeah, adding layers is easy with this fantastically complicated but efficient algorithm i invented". Assuming said genuis offered, would the offer be taken? Or is the aim a 2 dimentional world for RP qualities and general simplicity?
-Qes

With the "additional layer" problem, are there any VERY FAR DISTANT plans to try and implement something like this? For example, if a wonderful/magical programmer came along and said - "oh yeah, adding layers is easy with this fantastically complicated but efficient algorithm i invented". Assuming said genuis offered, would the offer be taken? Or is the aim a 2 dimentional world for RP qualities and general simplicity?
-Qes

This is Hell.

This is Hell.

Then.... In theory.....

There could be an "air domain" and a "water domain" too...right?

Dont tease me. I don't have enough tears.
-Qes

gogo water domain.. I want R'yleh!! or however you spell it..

But you could have topside coast-only water cities for Lanun only, for now, if you wanted.. underwater cities would be neat but I for one wouldnt complain that we didnt have them (eg. the Genetic Era mod)

Lanun could have floating cities

ya, like Fawn in ultima 7 part 2 (city of beauty, fishing and pearls) :p

ya, like Fawn in ultima 7 part 2 (city of beauty, fishing and pearls) :p

Or Stargate: Atlantis.

Replace Technology with magic, and Poof, instant cool city.
-Qes

in ultima 7.5 they didnt need magick for it (building into shallow-ish waters is far from impossible), i mean, they didnt need magick for venice... or did they?!?!

in ultima 7.5 they didnt need magick for it (building into shallow-ish waters is far from impossible), i mean, they didnt need magick for venice... or did they?!?!

I thought we were talking about cities out in the sea/ocean. Not merely sub-sealevel port communities.
-Qes

the entire city was in coastal waters in ultima 7, bu it was a matter of lots of stonework to support it i imagine

Hey, why not moving cities (just big boats that act like cities, creating units, buildings, and the such)

the Mortal engines moders have got that figured out, i think

im working on it... :D

Moving cities!? That would give the Hippus some drool factor...

Moving cities!? That would give the Hippus some drool factor...

Didnt we have a discussion on "Nomads" a long time ago?
-Qes

Then.... In theory.....

There could be an "air domain" and a "water domain" too...right?

Dont tease me. I don't have enough tears.
-Qes

Yes, in theory. Of course, to do this you would need to base it on the ground domain (no matter what. You could make the air domain look upwards to the sky, but then you'd be looking up at the floating soil on which lies a city). The water domain would have to be blacked out in the area of the ground and the air would spin around the earth and have it in the background. Basically, no matter what, you'd be screwing around with the globe view.

EDIT: Also, you'd have to make the Hippus basically dominate the air domain (as the Lanun would the water). I think it'd be best if they were air based, and could send raiders down to a very small settlement on earth.

is it possible to have civ store one domain and then when you press a button it will switch to a diffrent one... with a diffrent map and everything (im not totally clear on how hell would work either... where would it be on the map?)

for floating cities to work im pretty sure you'd need the "building improvements outside borders" mod thingy, and something i noticed in another mod that doesnt let more than 8 units in a tile, but changed to not letting more than 1 floating/roaming city in one tile.

for the traction cities in my mod (and this is the most easiest way) i have to make a city/unit. So that means the normal city graphics will not show... when you click on the unit that represents the city you can move, attack other cities, etc. Basicly inorder to get movable cities you would have to have a unit that is attached to the city and when the unit move so does the city. Another way to do it (which isn't as good IMO) you can store the city data press some keys on the keyboard (like ctrl+m or something) and then the city would be deleted and recreated on a diffrent tile... then city data would then be reloaded into the city.

for floating cities to work im pretty sure you'd need the "building improvements outside borders" mod thingy, and something i noticed in another mod that doesnt let more than 8 units in a tile, but changed to not letting more than 1 floating/roaming city in one tile.

I think having the additional domains would be cool, but im not sure any civs should be "native" to them. As, it would generally make them immune to early game warfare (with the assumption that cross-domain technologies would allow access back and forth). Instead making it similar to the "New world" function of Vanilla civ would be cool. Especially if badass barbarians reigned terror from "above" and "below the waves".

-Qes

Couldn't the lanun build floating cities instead of, i don't know, galleons. this would make teh fact that their cities unreachable irellavant, because most other civs would be able to attack thier cities, and sink them

Couldn't the lanun build floating cities instead of, i don't know, galleons. this would make teh fact that their cities unreachable irellavant, because most other civs would be able to attack thier cities, and sink them

It'd be cool to have "floating flotilla fortresses".

Essentially a Unit that has a movment rate of <1 but >0. Maybe it gets a move every 5 turns? Has a max fortification rate of 100%?

You'd just float it out to sea - maybe it'd have healing qualities, so that ships that "docked" there, could heal up.

-Qes

EDIT: THinking on it, it might be simpler to have a "worker-type boat" build the thing out at sea. And give it a movmeent rate of 0.

I'd rather give it a base movement of 0, but be able to sacrifice a work boat to add one movement point for a turn.

Would these floating fortresses create units? they main point of this i would think is to have a close supply of units to whomever you happen to be attacking, or escaping someone who is soundly beating the crap out of you.

Would these floating fortresses create units? they main point of this i would think is to have a close supply of units to whomever you happen to be attacking, or escaping someone who is soundly beating the crap out of you.

Kiriotates settlements dont, why should they be different?

No, im thinking water Floating flotilla fortresses should be merely units stationed as a gathering and protective point for ships. Perhaps one could store ground units in it, transfering from ship to flotilla. But no production. I mean....its all water. Around it.
-Qes

you do have a point. however, the elohim could have cities that move yet create units

you do have a point. however, the elohim could have cities that move yet create units

I would love floating cities in the sky - But i wonder how many headaches we've caused the Dev team already. Do you think they're twitching yet?
-Qes

What else do they have to do but fulfill our every whim and expectation??

Sorry, i ment Hippus instead of elohim. damn

the only way i think this could work (with out having the multi-deminsional thing) is to just have like a main ground city that produces settlers that can make moving cities. Like for the lunan (im asuming they are human-ish not fish-ish) they have a costal city. When that city produces a settler boat it will go out to sea and then when you tell it to settle a "city-unit" will spawn. It would be like a the Kiriotates settlements but they would have the ablity to move. the city-unit can attack boats and i guess produce units and have the ablity to bring in resources to its capital from sea if its on a underwater trade roads. I don't think allowing the ablity to make buildings would work (ever time you build a building that would mean a new unit graphic for the city :( ).

Something simmilar for the hippus too. they have 1 main city (or maybe 3 like the kiriotates) that can creat air cities with similar functions as the lunan.

Wouldn't moving cities be more of a Doviello kind of thing? Since they're not meant to be too city based anyway, I mean.

Wouldn't moving cities be more of a Doviello kind of thing? Since they're not meant to be too city based anyway, I mean.

Maybe, but you're talking about land based cities while the rest of us are thinking outside of the box ^^

There was some mention of both Elohim and Hippus...