My first SG- Played. I’m new, and I’m starting this one since there aren’t many new ones right now.

Civ: Germany, but open for discussion
Size: Standard
Landform: Continents or Pangaea
Style: ??? (easiest might be: Warm, Arid, 4 billion-For floodplains)
Barbs: Sedentary
Version: 1.04 RaR Pre-beta*
Opponents: All Random
Difficulty: Emperor (changable if team wants-up or down)
Other Stuff: All VC enabled, standard playing settings otherwise (Culturally linked starts: Off) Standard SG (24 got it, 72 play) rules-no exploits
AW rules: No trading, no peace, no embassies, no contact execpt for the intial - just conatact and declare.

Roster and Playing Order (As of 9/25)

Greebley
PaGe
Empiremaker
Elephantium
???


Requirements:
• Some familiarity with RaR
• Can beat Emperor+ normal C3C
• Basic AW strategy

*Since there isn’t a 1.04 pb Extended, could someone make or link to an Extended if available. If someone makes an Extended please use 1.02/1.03 costs, for the most part (look at changelist). I much prefer extended, but I would be willing to play regular (540 turns). I can’t do it since I have a mac :sad:

Suggestions, ideas are welcome.

Hi empiremaker,

I would be happy to join your SG. Normally I play Emperor, but have no experience with AW-games. So you must decide, if you wanna play with me. The German are OK.

PaGe - thanks for signing up. :D I don't mind if you haven't played AW before, but do you know the tactics behind it. If not, some SG/Stories have great descriptions.

I've also decided to use some of DocT's RaR rules:

Cheats, Exploits:
Outruled (what a surprise..). No reloading to undo actions (but of course, occasional reloading in case of a misclick – the incidentally gifted Tech in the F4 screen is classic – is fine). No blatant exploits like ‘Infinite Wealth’, ‘RoP-Rape’, gpt-purchase of Techs or Resources (for mass upgrades) and declaration to get out of that deal, or false peace treaties.

Also, minor exploits allowed for GotMs are not allowed for SGs: Ship-Chaining (it is allowed to unload in a city, and board a different ship here), ‘Throw-away cities’ (found a city in enemy territory to use the borders to advance your troops, and abandon that city immediately)

A special item is the ‘Seed Corn’ thing: Buying all Workers from an AI Civ very early was way too cheap before c3c; this extremely cripples the AI. Since Workers in c3c are more expensive, that is a lesser problem in the unmodded game, and usually you are allowed to buy all but one Worker from an AI Civ there. However, in RaR the AI will not be able to build Workers early because of the much slower growth, so this rule is still mandatory for this game:
No purchase of the last/ only Worker from any Civ before 2000BC.

A new rule for c3c (and RaR as well) is related to the fact you now can land on enemy zero-defence units (Workers, Settlers, Artillery) with any unit, not only Marines. The AI is not aware of this. While it is allowed to land on AI units, it is outruled to use Worker (or, more commonly, Slave) Walls to block AI landings.

In RaR, you are also required to respect the rate cap.

The rules are clear beside the last sentence. Rate cap? A language problem, I think. Cause english is not my native language.
Next week I've time to read some reports of AW-SGs here. Can you recommend some?

It means that in certain governments, you can't go above a certain percentage in Science, Entertainment, or Tax. You can set tax too high, and it will reset on the next turn, but after income is calculated, so you get around the mod's rules.

I reccomend the Zealous Zulus in the stories and tales, and Handy 900's AWS. Look in that list for some others.

Anyone else? ;)

I haven't played RaR recently and AW is hard to resist.

I will join.

Greebley,

I've read some of your other SG's, and I think you're a great player. Nice to have you onboard.

I haven't played RaR recently and AW is hard to resist.
especially in C3C, isn't it?

I would have signed on, but I am leaving for Germany in a few days and it isn't really nice to join a new game now

We'll start if we can get one more victi... Uh... I mean player. The playing time is fairly lax.

What is RaR?

Also, I'd be interested in joining the game after I learn a bit about RaR :)

RaR - Rise and Rule. A completly remade game, with more techs, units, building and more. One of the most popular mods at CFC. The link. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=100144) Be sure to get 1.04 prebeta if you want to participate in the SG. Look on this post for 1.04 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpo...4&postcount=65)

Elephantium, if you play a few games of RaR, I'd be happy to slot you in last, if you meet the other requirements. (Emperor+ normal C3C, Knowledge of AW)

Hmm...Always War is no biggie, but I'm not an Emp+ level player yet :(

Edit: Empiremaker's link above is broken. The correct link is:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2687194&postcount=65

Do you know RaR now? Cause I think this would be the harder challenge, than reaching emp. Just try a game with RaR, then you can see what I mean (no irrigation, no mining at the beginning, 3 Food for populationpoint).

BTW, I feel emporer RaR is easier than emporer in a normal game. The AI doesn't know to emphasize shields and shield buildings.

Note that a good start makes a bigger difference in RaR and can make the game easier if we wished.

I think we can win Emp with one less strong player. Emp AW even in the normal C3C depends very much on the starting position - such as number of fronts you are fighting on, so I am not saying we will win for sure, but I do think we have a good chance.

I agree, Greebley. But, it is AW, which makes thae game harder. Elephantium is a warlord (level) player, though.

Good ieda on letting in a less skilled player. I would still like 1 more player, but if PaGe adn Greebley want tostart I'd be willing to.

I'm just playing a RaR-PBEM with some guys. I asked them to play this SG with us, but haven't received an answer yet. One of them is on holiday til october. Maybe he can join us later.
But I think we can start now. If someone wants to join the game we can include him.

I am fine either way.

A fifth player would be nice however. I hope we can get one.

Hmm...this game sounds really interesting, so I could play a few games to ramp up my experience with harder difficulty levels - and RaR! - in the next week or so. That should get me to the point where I can make a decent contribution to *THIS* game - just put me last in the roster :)

Would that work for the rest of you?

Sounds Great. I'll post starts soon.

Playing Roster

Greebley
PaGe
Empiremaker
Elephantium-learning RaR and moving to Monarch/Emperor
(Available Slot)

Start 1:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Emp01_Start1.png

Start 2

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Emp01_start_2.png

Sorry about the screenshot, but the save is the start (pre tribe move), and my reccomended move 1SW isn’s affected by the extra info

Start 3
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Emp01_Start_3.png

My vote is start 2 for costal, and the hills. 1 doesn’t have much prodution, and 3 is even lower than 1 for production.

I agree. Start 2 is definitely the best. Settling on a hill gives one extra shield. But it might be difficult with the marshland in the north and the jungle (Or is it forest?). And the central position might be hard for AW. Is it a continent or pangäa?

A last question is about the espionage of the enemy. Is it allowed to look at the opponents by the F-keys? Can we look at the techs of the KI before declaring war?

No, you can't look at anything when you declare. Anything directly from the F screens are okay, but you can't talk to you opponents.

To the north in start 2 is marsh, but you can settle on marsh, and jungle isn't a terrible terrain.

But it causes disease and marshland isn't that productive. 1food + 1shield. On floodplains the disease is bad, but you can grow fast. In jungle you are thrown a couple of turns back. And that's terrible.
But we will see. Perhaps no disease appear.

If we play start 2, I think I would vote for going 1 north. I would want to be near the deer and on the river.

How much food/shields is the dear in the jungle worth? Or did you say it was swamp? It doesn't look like swamp.

Note that start 3 with a food resource and all those BG is not a bad choice either at least for the early game. Later on the capitol would have a distinct lack of shields.

I guess it depends on whether the deer is 3 food or not. If it is only 2 then I think start 3 wins. If the deer in jungle/marsh is 3 food then I vote start 2.

I think game/jungle is only 2 in chief, since game adds +1/+1/0

4000 BC for start 2 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Emp01_Start2_4000_BC.SAV) I have to go with start 2 since 3 has so few shields. 2 we'll have slow growth, but there is enough grass nearby.

I would settle 1 SW from the worker. The save has the settler where the worker is.

Your'e up Greebley, go ahead and take it.

Roster (Greebley can take 20 turns, rest of us will have 10 for now)

Greebley- Ready to kick it off with 20 turns
PaGe - On deck
Empiremaker
Elephantium


Greebley- I hear your arguments for 3, but PaGe wanted 2, and I prefer 2, so we'll go with 2.

Good luck team

I am having trouble loading the save. Sometimes when you upload the save is corrupted - can anyone else download and play the save above?

The other possibility is that we have some odd version mismatch. I do have 1.04 beta on my machine and was able to start a game there.

Emp, try downloading your own save - save it somewhere else (don't overwrite your existing one) and see if you can load it. If not the file is corrupt. If you can then I am guessing the version mismatch.

I tested out another 1.04 save to make sure my version was ok. I grabbed a save from San05 and it loaded for me.

Empiremaker - Another test is to see if you can load this one ( but I am guessing the file simply got corrupted when uploaded and we only need to upload again).

Zipped save game from San05 - a recent RaR game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Sana05_1750BC.zip)

Swamp is 2 food 1 shield and the game is 1 food 1 shield. This means the Game is still 2 food 2 shields at the start and worth having in the city radius IMO.

I made a map of locations:
1) Advantages - Immediate access to the game. Disadvantages - I see swamp to the east. That is 3 squares that will be useless for a long time - still the city won't be bigger than size 14 for a long time either. Not coastal
2) Advantages - Gets the game once the radius expands. Maximum number of hills. Disadvantage - a single sea square is wasted because we are not coastal.
3) Advantages - Coastal capitol. Disadvantages - Loses the 2/2 game square.

I think that game square is very important. If we work a hill we cannot grow at size 1. Therefore we have to work the 2/1 Bonus Grassland (after expansion) and a normal grassland at size 2 without the game.

Position 2 allows us to work a 2/2 tile and a 2/1 tile. At size 2 we get 5 shields instead of 3. At size 1 we get 4 shields instead of 3 (once we expand - 10 turns)

Position 1 is similar to position 2 except we get to work the 2/2 deer tile right away. I guess with position 3 and 2 we will be working a regular grassland until the expansion since we want to grow. Thus for the 10 turns before expansion we get 4 shields for position 1 instead of 2 for position 2 and 3. I think the real loss here is that we have one hill less than position 2 and the swamp. Both do not matter until far into the game however.

I think I like position 2 best. It allows us to settle a turn sooner than 1 and 3 (right?) and will be very powerful with all those hills in the latter game.

Next I like position 1. Getting the deer right away is good in AW - more defenders very early on - It is a tough choice between 2 and 1. It also has less shields long term (one less hill and no deer).

I do not like 3 as much. The loss of 1/2 shields at size 1 and 2 for the capitol early on combined with the fact that we are playing AW makes me not like this choice even though it gains the coast. We need to both build an army and expand and Hardy settlers are very expensive. (Our second city can make use of the coast if we wish).

I didn't like the rest of the spots as much because I think we want to 1) settle on a hill for the extra shield, 2) be on the river so we can easily grow past size 7.

I think I got all the facts right. We can only get to size 2 and only if we work 2 food squares (uses up the 2 extra food). Settling on a hill is 2 shields which is very powerful.

Anyway, I think we should discuss more. What do the rest of you think?


Here is a map with 1, 2, and 3 on it:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/Emp1_Capitol.jpg

I also can't load the save!

At my decision I forgot that we only can clear forrest with Dyn. Jungle is much later. Makes it harder.
I prefer position 3 for the later game. Sure it will be hard at the beginning. But do we need an early war? With the sea we get much gold for commerce and science. As I said, I've no experience in AW. I started a continent-game with the german and played without offensive war at the early game. Later in the game (with elefants) I crushed my neighbors. (Unfortunately the civs on the other island are much stronger, but the game is still running.)
But I see your argument for the production-boost. Hard to decide.

The tribe has two movement-points and no terrain-penalty. We can settle on every point in the first turn.

General point: Are we heading for the GB or is it possible without?

edit: We also can built the collosus, if want to achieve a cultural victory.

If we were playing Monarch AW, I think 3 would be a good choice for the reasons you listed. At Emp AW we need to worry much more about the initial turns. Emp level gives a lot more starting units for example.

My worry is that we won't survive to be able to use the commerce. Conversely, we will be bigger and have several additional towns to replace the lost commerce. 3 vs 5 shields is a major difference and I see no way to get 4 shields at spot 3. Its the difference between 12 and 20 turns to build something that costs 60 shields.

yeah, I couldn't download my own save. I couldn't get it to appear on the desktop. What error message do you get?

I like 1, we can grab coast later. GB? What's that?

I attempted to load the Sanabas save and had problems. (ICON_BLDG_Palace_Gardens). I have 1.04 beta installed with it. Normal 1.04 beta games work fine.

The Sana-Saves functions at my system. Your save causes the error "No valid save file".

Sorry for GB. That's the german abbreviation for Great Library.

Okay, then let us take position 1. I see no advantage in taking position 2. Should be equal if we had more jungle or swamp. And to manage one hill more we will need explosives to feed the residents on new grassland. Then I prefer the earlier production.
Should the worker pop up the hut? Cause a worrier might spawn barbs.
First tech? Cultivation for luxeries, domestication for horses or heading for iron? I prefer the first one, cause the first settler is a couple of turns away for saving a ressource.

yeah, I couldn't download my own save. I couldn't get it to appear on the desktop. What error message do you get?

I like 1, we can grab coast later. GB? What's that?

I attempted to load the Sanabas save and had problems. (ICON_BLDG_Palace_Gardens). I have 1.04 beta installed with it. Normal 1.04 beta games work fine.

It loads fine for me. I assume you followed all the instructions in this post when you installed it?

Doc's instructions on installing the 1.04 beta (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2687194&postcount=65)

(Though if you missed a step it doesn't sound like the palace gardens would be effected).

I am worried that my playing your game will somehow mess it up for you if I have the palace gardens and you don't. I chose this game because Doc T is in the game, so this is should be 1.04 beta as it is supposed to be (he would get errors if the save had problems). We can test if we have a problem (comment right below).

Empiremaker,
Go ahead and try to load the upload save a second time (I think it got corrupted during upload - i have seen this before and removing and reuploading the save should fix). I will try to play 20 turns and then we can see if you can still load the save afterward. If so then we are probably ok to play. It does sound like your 1.04 beta might have an issue though.

Or you could simply try to install the 1.04 beta again - if you are missing files then this will fix it.

I did try to upload it a second time, and I got a text file from the .SAV upon clicking the link. This was the same problem I got with the orginal, so I didn't think a reupload would help.

I checked the pediaicons and there is a ICON_BLDG_Palace_Garden in there, and I can't open up the .biq files since I have a mac.

If you want to retry here is the link (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Emp01_Start2_4000_BC.SAV).

Greebley, I have a question abot the easy upload. When I tried to upload a different save with a differnet name, I get a message that there is a file already with that name, and I'm sure there isn't since the link it provides to to a different named file.

I think it appends a number if the name occurs more than once.

I like posting saves with the Manage Attachments rather than uploading so you don't have to worry about all that ( you remove it and try again). Only the big files do I upload.

BTW, the message I get is "not a valid save file".

Can you zip files? try zipping and attaching it. Then I can know if it is the uploading (zip file is corrupt) or the save itself (corrupt after unzipping). (This is one reason I tend to zip the saves myself).

If that doesn't work, then we can consider other options.

Greebley, we didn't face any problem with the installations in Sana05, regardless if it were age-old installations like mine or fresh ones. So the avalible files are fine.
And, the Palace Garden issue is by no means related to the version of RaR - it's the typical error message for a missing basic installation. The PG just happens to be the first 'added' item Civ tries to load.

So, in fact I'd advise to reinstall RaR. Somehow I suspect he 'successfully' installed the small 1.04 patch, but missed the huge RaR basic file...

I do have the basic RaR file structure as I can play games started on my computer fine, but it's when I try to start the Sana_05, I get the error. I installed the files from the RaR thread here a CFC, version 1.02.

I did replace the .pediaicons and the 1.04 .biq.
.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/RaR_file_structure.png

Ok, I did a search for the word (ICON_BLDG_Palace_Gardens) you had an error with in the RAR files and found it in the pediaconst.txt.

The pcx files listed were in the base civ3 directory:
Civilization III\Art\Civilopedia\Icons\buildings\palaceAMERlarg e.pcx
Civilization III\Art\Civilopedia\Icons\buildings\palaceAMERsmal l.pcx


This is a small part of the text grabbed from the RAR\Text\pediacons.txt: (I added the bold)

...
#ICON_BLDG_Echelon
SINGLE
143
art\civilopedia\icons\buildings\TajMahallarge.pcx
art\civilopedia\icons\buildings\TajMahalsmall.pcx
#ICON_BLDG_Palace_Garden
SINGLE
1
art\civilopedia\icons\buildings\palaceamerlarge.pc x
art\civilopedia\icons\buildings\palaceamersmall.pc x
#ICON_BLDG_Summer_Gardens
SINGLE
5
art\civilopedia\icons\buildings\Summerpalacelarge. pcx
art\civilopedia\icons\buildings\SummerPalacesmall. pcx
...

Check to see if your pediacons.txt has that defined (search for palace gardens) and that you have the pcx files in the same location as I do.

If there is no difference:
You mentioned you have a mac - RAR was never tested on a mac since the mac didn't have conquests when it was made. I wonder if it could be something like the capitolization not matching? Not sure if the mac has case sensitive file names or not. If it does, it could possibly be the issue. You could create lowercase versions of the pcx files. (copy palaceAMERlarge.pcx to palaceamerlarge.pcx)

Did you want to try to zip your save and upload it? if we play with that we may be fine since you say you have no problems with your own games.

Anyway, I am not sure if this helps or not. Doc knows more about these things than I do.

I copied the palace_garden entry to the main C3C pediaicons, and it worked fine, but then I got File not found ICON_BLDG_Forbidden_Garden(s).

Here is the save file zipped (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Emp01_with_Berlin_fo_1FFDE2.zip)

I sucessfully downloaded and opened my save. Can anybody else?

Can somebody can you please post your .biq file for RAR 1.04 since it seems that the game doesn't know where to look and tries the base directory.

Now the file isn't corrupt, but I also get the error with the Palace garden. :crazyeye:

Does the Sana-Save now function at your system, Empiremaker? Cause that's running on greeblys and my one.

Here is my 1.04.biq:
139355

And a save I started. Perhaps you can run this:
139356

If this doesn't help, it would be good, when make a completly new installation of the game (C3C + RaR 1.02 + RaR 1.04. (The installation of 1.03 isn't needed, I think.).

Ya, I get that error too. That means that game won't be playable and we need to generate a new one which is too bad - the start was interesting.

Do you all want me to generate 3 starts while Emp straightens out his version? I could post pictures and we can discuss.

If so do we want continents or Pangea? What level of Barbs?

Emp, I am attaching my pediaicons.txt file in case it is useful for you.

This is the RaR one (not the main conquests one).

Go ahead. The settings are in the first post. The Sana save isn't working on my system, and probably won't since I copied the ICON_BLDG s into the C3C pediaicons, and got more messages.

I'll try the new files, but I'm going to be gone this weekend.

Just do it, Greebley.

Ok, here are the three starts:

I think I like number 1 the best (with the corn), then 2, (for 3 I would start exploring for a better site and hope I didn't die while doing it).

Note that I did throw out one start that has no 2+ food squares (all hills and plains with no water).

Start 1:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/Emp1_Start1.jpg

Start 2:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/Emp1_Start2.jpg

Start 3:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/Emp1_Start3.jpg

After a bit of thought, I think I would settle in place for start 1. Being on the hill and on the river makes up for the 4 tundra squares. We won't be over size 14 for a very long time (if ever - I tend to never go over size 12 in reg AWE) so I don't think we care about those 4 squares.

2 shields on the home square and a 4/1 food square right away is pretty strong.

I think start 1 wins hands down, and the advantage with the tundra is that no civs are up there. Go ahead and start this one Greebley.

I vote for start 1, too. Settling on the hill is good. With the maize we can grow fast and can work on hills+grow further. If we have plenty of luck, we get a tribe or a barbarian raider from the hut.

I was finally able to load the various saves. I'm good to go.

Sounds like we are all set then. That is great.

I played to 3000 BC.

Tech:
I initially went for Domestication because that can really pay off if you get some food resources and because knowing where such resources are can help plan for towns. We got unlucky and nothing was revealed.

Next I went for Mathematics. Catapults that are 8 strong are even more powerful than regular civs. Catapults are the key to getting the 35 wins - 1 loss kill ratios.

Military:
No enemy civs met. Our initial settling gave us a barb warrior 2.2.1. I then built an archer and tribesman to pop another hut. This gave us 3 barbarians, one of which was attacked and killed leaving 2 still up in the tundra. It didn't seem worth attacking them.

Domestic:
After the military builds I built a clan which has completed. We should discuss where to put it. I put some numbers down to help the discussion.
My thought is to settle 2, then 4. That gives us a coastal town right away. I had forgotten that plains are 2-1 and grassland is 2-0 (3-1 food) so plains are better. Distance 3 that is so important in regular civ3 is less important here since we can only move 2 squares. Still a unit in between can defend 2 cities (but it can do that at distance 4 as well). For that reason 4 could go west if we wished.

I set the build to the wisemen to get techs faster. The other option is more military, but I thought of holding off on that since we haven't met anyone. The wiseman could be switched to an archer or tribesman if someone shows up.

Summary:
My vote is to settle on location 2 - it clearly looks the strongest spot and gives us an early strong coastal town. After that I would go for spot 4, but feel the location is more flexible if ppl want to move it.

Notes:
BTW, one trick we can do in RaR is to build "twin cities". You build one city NN, SS, EE or WW of another. That means the city isn't within the twenty squares you can work, but you can move a slow unit between cities if you wish. If no other cities are close then each city can work around 16 squares (they only need 14 so some overlap of other cities is fine).

I don't do this alot - only when two cities are in locations where I need to defend both fairly well, but it is useful in certain cases. Coastal cities in pairs can be nice in that you can have units defend either in case of a landing. I would usually have 3 units to defend 2 cities that way. One in each city and one right between (if coastal) so no landing can threaten both cities at the same time with speed 1 units (faster units can be a bit more problematical - if that is a worry, then more than 3 units or speed 2+ units to guard several towns works.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/Emp1_BC3000.jpg

We may want to pm Elephantium to make sure he is still with us (or you can just reply to this message, E.). He hasn't said anything recently and sometimes it is easy to forget you signed up if the start is slowed by technical issues.

PaGe, it looks like you are up now. GL.

I am here; I just don't have anything to say quite yet - I'm still in the process of figuring out RaR.

A surprising start for me. Domestication I understood, but maths that early. Okay, you are expert in AW and our new city can built them.

Settling on 4 or one SW should be clearly the third city. But for the second city we should discuss, if we want to build a 3- or a 4-distant grid.
-> If we want to built up a 3 distant grid of our citys. Then we can station a group of militärs between the citys. Also a unit can move within 2 turns to another city and attack an enemy standing adjacent to the city.
-> If we build a 4-distant grid, slow units can’t defend both if positioned between! But a unit can move within 2 turns from one to another city. And we don’t have that much overlap. Then I prefer a city S of 1.

I watched the Save (It functions! :woohoo: ) and I saw something on the grassland SE,SE of 2. Forest or a ressource? We will see.

What should be after Maths? The next goal should be urbanization for walls since we have no horses. So I would choose cultivation for bonuses and then pottery, masonary, urb.

I just noticed something in my RaR game. Some things in the game, like The Academy, War College, and War Games Facility have a blue question mark icon and a message "No Icon Yet"

Is this normal behavior for the mod, or do I have something screwed up somewhere? My game is Civ 3 Complete, and I did download and install the extras patch into the Conquests/Scenarios folder.

That's normal. It appears several times in the civilopedia. In the building menu of the city you have images.
But Elephantium, what do you think about the grid?
I'll wait a couple of hours till I start.

If there is a resource SE-SE, it could be worth investigating. Go ahead and see if SE of spot 2 is better then go for it. I do want coastal though if we can do it for a strong coastal town.

Ya math is kind of early, but it will save us from even early loses if we have a few cats. It has been a while since I have played RaR myself so I am not the expert on what to go for next.

Edit: We probably should talk about which tech to go for next. I was thinking masonry + (something dealing with metal - smelting)? to see where the iron is might be nice. There are other resource finding techs too though. What would you all like to go for?

Greebley, you haven't found an enemy? I unfortunately have in the pre-turn. We now have war with the carthagians. And it was a really good bonus on the grassland, a cow. So we should settle S of 1 to grap it early.

139516

Preturn: Moved Raider and Settler out of Berlin. Declare war on carthago, changed wiseman to TG

Turn1: Moved settler and raider on hill.

Turn2: Killed TG with Raider, is promoted to regular

Turn3: Found Leipzig, starting wiseman. archer is heading to the hill S of Leipzig to explore.

IBT: cart. Raider + Warrior appear near Berlin

Turn4: moved both TG out of Berlin and fortified them next to the enemy. They have to attack over the river and can't pillage the field Berlin is working on. Archer is coming back

IBT: Raider attacked TG and died. TG promoted to Elite. Warrior is heading for our worker.

Turn5: Moved Raider out of Leipzig. Now only defended by archer.

IBT: A TG appeared also W of Berlin.

Turn6: Moved Raider on hill. Elite TG back in Berlin.

IBT: enemies are heading for Berlin. Worker finished road.

Turn7: worker moved to cow. Raider killed warrior.

IBT: TG moves on roaded field.

Turn8: Raider killed TG and is promoted to Vet. Misclick the worker, load again. Raider is still promoted and the worker now roading the cow. Vet TG heading for Leipzig. Changed TG in Berlin to wiseman. We need a searching boost and no enemy is seen now. And of course the Elite TG can handle some enemies.

Turn9: TG in Leipzig (with Archer), Raider in Berlin.

IBT: Maths get in. Next is cultivation (8 turns). Both Cities build wiseman. Berlin->TG (4R), Leipzig->cata(7R)

Turn10: nothing, Raider heals in Berlin.

IBT: worker finished road

Turn11: worker moved, Raider moved W of Berlin. Searching the carthagian nest.

Turn12: raider moved further

Turn13: raider moved. No carthagians

IBT: The Carthagians settled. Berlin TG->Clan or Archer

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/98439/Emp_2270BC.jpg

What shall we do now? Early attack with archers or first building a settler?

I've choosen culti because the extra commerce gives a bonus in commerce and therefor research. Next I want to go for Masonary and Iron working.

That's normal. It appears several times in the civilopedia. In the building menu of the city you have images.
But Elephantium, what do you think about the grid?
I'll wait a couple of hours till I start.

Grid? What do you mean?

PaGe: What shall we do now? Early attack with archers or first building a settler?
Archers? Why not Champions? :)

The distance between our cities. 3 or 4 as explained above.

Edit: I kind of like the idea of using Champs as suggested by Doc.
I would switch the Clan to a TG or champ and build 4-6 champs to handle the first town and then go for a clan.

I think at size 2 we can build champs in 2 turns.

Oh je, I've forgotten that we are a militaristic. The Champion is the better choice. We can built them in 2R.
But I would prefer to built a settler first to settle on spot 4.

I am ok with the settler first. Keep changing my mind on it. Both ways seem good to me.

Our Raider war lurking from a mountain. The city is protected by a reg TG (so it should be their 3. city, cause capital always builds vets) and the capital of the Carthagians is near. Would be a nice city. When expanding there a at least 2 tiles of flood plains and a camel on it. I think it has connection to a river either.
We should wait with attacking it, so we can overtake it. I'm now building a clan and then start 3-4 champions. That would be enough time to build some catas in the other cities.
The Raider will fortify and keep lurking what is coming into the city.

edit: I'm now building militia first, cause the science keep up and we produce 5 shields in the city.

Sounds like a good plan to me.

Turn 14: raider moved towards enemy city.

Turn 15: raider moved towards enemy city and can see a reg SG.

Turn 16: Archer start his journey to our Raider.

Turn 17: Leipzig Cat->Cat

Turn 18: Berlin TG->Champ

Turn 19: Archer fortifies under Raider

IBT: Masonary comes in ->scrape mining(3R)

Turn 20: Champ->Champ, moving champ to Leipzig.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/98439/--2006-09-30--22-00-20.jpg

And the save for empiremaker:
139532

Hmm...Since this is AW, I'd lean towards spacing our cities 3 apart, to make our empire more defensible.

In vanilla I might be tempted to start off by doing ICS, then abandoning the innermost ring of cities once we started growing past size 6 - but I'm not sure whether that strategy would translate well to RaR.

:wallbash: I'm so stupid. A defensive Unit can defend two cities when they are at 4 tiles distant. There are only 3 tiles between. So only the point with the offensive unit is still true and perhaps a reason for 3 tiles distant.

But when you have a look, the 4 distant grid is good. Then we settle SW of 4 and the carthagian city has again a distant of 4 to this city. Unfortunatly the other city has a distance of 5, but their can be found another city in between.

Some comments for empiremaker:
In Leipzig I let them work a coast-tile because the shield from another plain would be wasted. This way we take an extra gold.
It would be good, if you time the settler with the growth of our capital because they will get unhappy (Culti doesn't bring up any ressource :( )
Perhaps you bring the raider and archer on the other side of the city on the mountain, due to the fact that the rest of our army will come from this side)

I noticed our Vet Barb Raider has 6 hp and can probably take out the regular tribesman. To be really sure we could add the Cat.

We may just want to send a TG, the Cat, the Raider and Archer at the city. That can probably take it. Why don't we move these units (all built already) to the hill E of the town. We can then also see the town size then.

We can build a few champs, but probably don't need many. Even for the capitol especially after we finish the second Cat.

BTW, you played 23 turns PaGe.

Edit: Ya 3 or 4 distance is the same for RaR. There is also the density issue - no town needs more than 14 workable squares - to achieve that we will probably have a mix of distance 3 and distance 4. All distance 4 is too much and wastes useful squares.

Also note that unit support and number of armies is dependent on the number of cities so sometimes we may want more cities to support more troops and build further armies. In other AW games this has meant sometimes building towns squeezed in - usually to get another army built.

Oops, were have I lost them in my chronicle? At the beginning everything goes too fast. Sorry, next time I play some turns less and record it better :rolleyes: .

I don't think the city is at size 2 now. But as I mentioned above it would be good if Empiremaker changes the side with the Raider and the archer.

Empiremaker, you are up correct? It sounded like you were all set to play?

I got it. I just got back from my trip.

I'm going to delay IW as long as possible so that we can continue to build champs.

Sounds reasonable. Scrape mining is still worthwhile though because it shows the location of the Iron. I assume we will finish that and then head for other techs. Getting to the new Govt type quickly doesn't seem a bad idea so our towns can grow.

After scrape mining we should go for pottery and urbanization as a way to Dyn and being able to build walls. The other enemies will visit us sooner or later and will have good offensive units before getting spears.

@empiremaker: What is the meaning of IW?

Pre-Turn (0)- move some units

IBT- Moved TG, Berlin Riots :blush:

1- Meet Russia, Declare

IBT- Leipzig begins Worker Housing

2-zzz

3- Scrape mining researched, Iron on nearby tundra.

5- Berlin Begins Worker Housing, then granary

6- Pottery comes in, then Urbanization

9- Move towards the Carthaginian town (Utica) with a stack of 2 cats, 1 archer, 1 barbarian raider, 3 champs, and 1 Elite TG

10- Both cats fail, next person can try again.

Thoughts- Build Granary in Berlin, and continue research towards Dynasticism. After Granary, we should build a clan in Berlin.

Roster:

Greebley- On deck
PaGe- In the hole (playing seven turns next)
Empiremaker-Just played
Elephantium- Up for 10, but if you need more time to learn RaR, we can skip you.

Emp 01, 1675 BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Emp_01_1675_BC.SAV.zip)

(IW = Iron Working)

Elephantium you are up. Playing is the best way to learn.

@Empiremaker: I think the link isn't OK.
What unit came form russia. Have you killed it?

Could everybody please make a screen at the end of the game and post it. So we can discuss better (if needed).

The save should work now.

The unit was a ranger, and wasn't worth killing.

If Elephantium doesn't claim the save by 7:00 your time Greebley, you can take it, but I don't mind waiting an extra 12 hours.

I am going to give Elephantium some more time to respond. If no response then I will grab it sometime tomorrow.

Got it. Sink or swim time!

...any further discussion of what to do next can only benefit me, so feel free to offer advice :)

First attack the city and make a screen after it. Then we can discuss further if we kick the carthagians from our world :evil:.

Pre-flight:

I note that we'll need another military unit in our capital in a few turns to avoid riots when it grows.

IBT:

Berlin: Worker Housing->Granary

Turn 1 (1650 BC):

Bombard with cats. One defender takes a hit, the second one dodges. Should I press the attack or wait a turn, hoping for both cats to succeed on bombardment?

Wait a turn.

One other thing. DO NOT BUILD A TG IN BERLIN, bump the lux tax instead. The 20 shields for a TG could be used for two champions to assult Carthage.

Turn 1 Continued...

Sci slider to 40%, Urb still due in 1 turn.

IBT:

We develop Urbanization and start researching Ritualism (prereq for Caste System), due in 5 turns.

Turn 2 (1625 BC):

Sci slider to 50%. Ritualism in 3 turns, -1gpt.
Cats bombard. Two successes! Our forces march into Utica with no losses. OUr Barbarian Raider and one of our Champions do all the work while the others stand around, watching.

You'd think it's a construction project instead of a war.

Anyway, I set Utica building Wiseman German.

I'm thinking the next step is to marshal our forces against the Carthaginian capital - its culture borders are visible near Utica. I'll defer to the wisdom of my RaR elders, though :)

More of a lurker's question, actually. In the picture posted by Elephantium, it looks like there's some resource out over the water 1E then 1 NE from Leipzig. What is that? It looks like a duck to me.

I would continue to fight Carthage.

Make sure we are at war with all enemies. I notice a scout and don't remember if we have declared. We should be checking the Diplomacy list now and then. (I use the shift-D to check (when a worker is not selected).

If the war goes well I would consider another clan after the Granary. If we need units, then go for that.

The lux at Leipzig are seals (+1food + 1gold)

Empiremaker has declared war to the russians. So it's OK.

Strategy: I would build 2 TG in Berlin to cover the new cities, then the clan. The TG and the archer should stay in Utica, the rest move forward to the capital. But don't forget, that the palace give a defensive-bonus. Both cats should hit and never attack over the river.

Ya, 2 TG first probably does make sense since we are both capturing and building cities.

Turn 2 continued...

IBT:

Zzz...

Turn 3 (1600 BC):

Move troops into Utica.

IBT:

Leipzig: Worker Housing->Catapult

Turn 4 (1575 BC):

Move troops. Barb Raider stays in Utica to heal.
Sci slider to 20%, Ritualism still due in 1.

IBT:

Ritualism->Caste System, due in 10.

Turn 5 (1550 BC):

Sci slider back to 50%, CS due in 5
I notice Incense next to Utica. That's my next Road priority.

IBT:

Zzz...

Turn 6 (1525 BC):

Our troops camp across the river form Carthage. Soon they'll ford the river, then our siege can begin in earnest.

IBT:

Our culture borders expand, revealing a Gepid Conscript Barb Raider in the tundra to the north. I also notice some offshore rocks.

Turn 7 (1500 BC):

Our troops move into position.

IBT:

Berlin: Granary->TG (3 turns; Champs take 2)

Turn 8 (1475 BC):

Cats bombard. One success, one failure. Our troops dig in.

IBT:

Utica starves down to 1 pop!

Turn 9 (1450 BC):

Two cats fire, two hp drained. Barb raider attacks...and dies, doing only one hp of damage. STUPID RNG! :mad:
Two Champions also die, failing to unseat any defenders. Our offensive is blunted, waiting on the production of a few more attackers. :cry:
Sci slider to 40%, CS in 1.

IBT:

CS->Writing
Our people want the Palace Garden
Leipzig: Catapult->HC

Turn 10 (1425 BC):

Sci slider to 50%, Writing in 5.
I can't move the Catapult towards Utica because a Russian Ranger threatens the path, and I'd hate to lose it if Rangers can capture things.
Cats bombard Carthage just for the heck of it, but we're in a holding pattern for 10 turns or so.

Rangers can't attack any unit or capture something. They have 0 attack.
Incense isn't luxury, but a stratetic ressource to build temples and so on. There is no need to road it jet, but it doesn't matter.

Bad thing with Carthage. Unfortunately we have trained their TG now. So we need many catas for our next offense.
The only thing, I would have made different is, that the champs have attack first, cause the Raider was the only unit, with a good defense.

We should kill the ranger with our archer in Utica. It would be bad, if Russia and Carthage haven't met each other and the ranger makes the contact.
The wise-man in Utica should be switch to monument, so that we can work on flood with camel. And when city 4 is founded the silver will be connected.
Perhaps we should move the catas and the champ onto the mountain. It is roaded, so the catas can move on. But only if we still want to attack.

And the best at the end: There is iron in the tundra :D

What should be done next. Berlin and Leipzig can't grow further. Clan in Leipzig? After the spear a worker in Berlin? Still offense against Carthage? This would take many turns, cause we need at least 6 turns to Carthage from Berlin.

So I prefer to stop attacking Carthage. Damaging the infra with the catas and the champ and move back. Leipzig and Berlin should build clans and a champ should investigate (the west or) the east for the next settling point.

@Greebley: You are next!
I'm on deck (with 7 turns :blush: )

Ok, I got it.

Preturn:
I agree on Utica switched to a Monument. I also switch to a Hardy clan to get the next town sooner.
I will finish the Tribal Guard and then work on Champs and Cats in the capitol.

1400 BC: Single Champ retreats with the Cats.

IBT: I didn't know Cats had zones of control - it attacks the ranger knocking it to one hp when the ranger moves.

1375 BC: I decide to take out the Ranger with a TG which goes to elite (archer not there yet).

1350 BC: A Barbarian raider is wandering into our lands now. See if he will attack a TG against odds - easiest way to kill it.

1325 BC: Hmm... 3 Barbs. Their 2-2-1 is very annoying. We cannot attack without expected losses which I don't want so they just terrorize the countryside.

1300 BC: Not much.

1275 BC: Clan starts heading to build the fourth town. Bombard and attack one barbarian who comes next to our Cats. The archer attacks and fails. The Champ attacks and goes to 1 hp but we kill it. This is against a wounded 2 hp Barb.

1200 BC: Bombard and barely kill another Barbarian Raider.

1175 BC: The settler is where I was thinking of placing the town but the town isn't built yet. See the red dot on the picture below. Does this look a good site to the rest of you?

Notes:
We are 4 turns from Dynasticism. Both enemies already have it and have switched govts.

When the catapults finish in 3 turns, we will have 6 of them and four? Champs. I would cover with an Elite TG. We no longer have the Archer as it lost against odds on the barbarian. We could wait for more champs or go for it then. Maybe we could bombard and see how many defenders. If more than we think we can handle then we build more cats and champs.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/Emp1_BC1175.jpg

Roster:

Greebley - Just Played
PaGe - Up
Empiremaker - On Deck
Elephantium

Looks good Greebley.

Remeber that we can't send tax above 50% for cheif, and 60% for monarchy. Therefore, Sci% + Lux%>=50(Chief)/40%(Monarchy).

PaGe- Use the F8 screen to tell when your turn is over. You will pass off on turn *0

For the next town...why not settle on the hill NW of the red dot? It's more defensible, plus it forms OCP with our capital and Utica.

What do you guys think? Would that be a good spot, or are hills bad spots?

I also thought to settle on another spot. But it isn't on the hill, but in the forest SE. Only on this position the silver will be connected by expanding of Utica and has a 4 tile distance to Leipzig.
If we want to build another town between the cities, I would agree with Elephantium to settle on the hill.

After getting Dyn, immediately switching Gov, then going to Bronze? We have no horses, no elephants, so our next offensive unit only can be swords (if we connect the iron).
edit: I've forgotten that Utica has camels, but that's not a good unit for me. The only good thing is that they have 2 moving points.

I think, I still get no answer, if we want to build the GL.

I got it, but will wait for discussion.

GL makes things easier. I would build it if we can. Heading for it isn't a bad thing. I do agree we want stronger units though. Attack 2 isn't going to be enough soon.

Both SE or hill also work. It depends on how tight we want to build. Working every square has advantages so maybe SE is best. Its downside is that it crowds the capitol which already has tundra in its radius. I would rather crowd Leipsig to the south and grab the silver that way.

Next player can decide where to put the town. BTW, I am not worried about putting the town on the hill because that town will very soon be in the middle of our empire. I also would like to work every square if we can and the hill makes that harder, IMO. I was originally considering that spot - above is the reasons I didn't go with it.

Preturn: little MM
Turn 1: worker roads, Settler-treck moved on hill, rest moved into cities to heal and protect.
IBT: Russia comes with 3 archers from the south of Utica.
Turn2: found Hamburg, moved 3 cats, 2 TG, 1 Champ on hill next to russians. There is a highway!
IBT: Russia doesn't attack, Berlin: cat->champ, Leipzig: cat->monument
Turn3: all 3 cats hit, the champ kills 1 Archer, 1 TG moved on mountain to cover it, another TG moved to the cats. MM
IBT: carthagian archer appears, Dyn->bronze, Anarchry (4R)
Turn4: MM, 2 cats hit russian archer, champs finish them ->Elite champ+slave, TG+1cat back in Utica
IBT: cart. archer comes nearer, Utica still revolted
Turn5: 2cats hit archer, champ kills him
IBT: Leipzig riots
Turn6: units back in town or heal,
IBT:Russians asked, refused
Turn7: Set sliders for monarchy, nothing else.

Sorry, my MM wasn't good in anarchy.
_________________________
I decided to settle on the hill, cause of the boost/defense and the a 4 tile distance. We can build a city later in the center of our cities. Berlin doesn't need the lower 3 tiles to grow to size 15!

Empiremaker, you can still move all units for your offense, but be careful of the russians! They can use the highway.
Next turn anarchy ends! Leizpzig should build a monument. Perhaps that's enough to get the silver.

I got it.

I don't think Leipzig need a monument, since it would take 100 cp to get the silver.

I think 10 cp would be enough, because of the connection with the culture from the rest of our cities

Turn 0 (1000 BC): Switch research to Philosophy

IBT- Archer comes out of Carthage

1- Monarchy established, Philosophy in 12. MM.

IBT - Archer moves towards Utica

2- Nothing exciting

IBT- 2 archers threatening Utica

3- Meet Mongols, Declare.

Kill the 2 Carthaginian archers. (philo in 7)

IBT- ZZZ

4- Kill Mongolian archer, get a slave.

IBT -Utica expands

5- Lux tax to 10%.

IBT- See a Carthaginian archer E of Carthage coming from the north- Do they have another city up there?

6- zzz

IBT -Berlin Riots, Utica produces a catapult-> Catapult

7- Prepare to kill archer if it moves onto camels

IBT- Berlin produces a champion, Hamburg Cat-> cat

8- zzz

IBT- See Russian archer.
Get philo first, take Classical Education (most expensive tech) start on aristocracy. I want to be able to build TG longer since they have no maintenance. Aristocracy also allows FP to be built.

Leipzig completes monument.

9- Lose elite Champ attacking carthaginian archer, but get a slave

IBT- Berlin: Champ-> Forge

10- Nothing exciting

Notes to next player (Elephtantium) move attack force in Utica to the camels(Everybody except the TG). Move to the tile NE of carthage.

Utica has 8 cats and 4 champs- so our assault on carthage will contain 8 cats, 6 champs, and 1 TG.

Emp01 750 BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Emp_01_750BC.SAV.zip)

Got it.

BTW, why do you zip the save file?

Pre-flight:

Everything looks good to me! I move a few troops towards Carthage.

IBT:

Carthage wants to talk. Maybe later.
Russia moves her Archer onto the mountain near Utica.

Turn 1 (730 BC):

More troop movements. I use a stray Catapult to bombard the Archer near Utica.

IBT:

A contingent of Mongolian Spears enters Utica's borders. Another guest for the party!

Turn 2 (710 BC):

Our troops near the outskirts of Carthage. Uh-oh, his defenders are led by Numidian Spearmen. Getting through them is going to be tough.

IBT:

Russian Archer > our Champion. Sigh.
Mongolians stop next to our Workers. Time to skedaddle!

Turn 3 (690 BC):

Bombardment begins at Carthage. Looks like they have two defenders. We drop them to 3 and 2 hp respectively; I'm going to hold out another turn or two before attacking - I want them redlined before sacrificing Champions against them.

IBT:

Zzz..

Turn 4 (670 BC):

Carthage sends out an African Archer. I redline it with cat fire, then lose a Champion before killing it. :mad:

IBT:

Utica riots. Oops, they grew last turn. I'm way too used to relying on the governor. I reassign workers to restore productivity.
Hamburg: Cat->Champ (we desperately need a few more)

Turn 5 (670 BC):

Bombardment of Carthage continues. We might attack next turn.
Sci slider to 30%, Aristocracy still in 1.

IBT:

Carthage sends out another archer
Mongols pillage our Camels.
Aristocracy->Boat Building (cheap tech - 1 turn, plus, it allows improved exploration soon)
Berlin: Forge->Champ
Leipzig: Cat->Champ
Our source of Incense is gone!

Turn 5 (630 BC):

Bombardment has a few failures. I need all cats to succeed vs. the Carthaginian defenders to feel confident about our attack, so we wait.

IBT:

Boat Building->Mysticism in 4
Leipzig riots. Ugh. We adjust workers.
Utica: Cat->Champ

Turn 6 (610 BC):

Bombardment doesn't go well. Wait another turn.

IBT:

Mongols pillage another road near Utica. In hindsight, I should have called off the attack vs. Carthage to deal with intruders.
Berlin: Champ->Champ
Leipzig starves and grows its culture borders, we now have Silver!

Turn 7 (590 BC):

Worst bombardment ever - six failures! This invasion stinks. The troops want a new general.
We bombard the Mongols near Utica and fail to bombard the Russians approaching Leipzig.

IBT:

Russians attack Leipzig. Our TG goes elite!
The second archer pillages the road to the silver. Jerks.
Hamburg: Champ->Champ

Turn 8 (570 BC):

We bombard and kill the Russian Archer pillaging our roads near Leipzig. The Champ promotes to elite out of the bargain.
MM a bit - Mysticism in 1 turn, +1gpt instead of -1.

IBT:

Russians land an Archer near Leipzig.
Foes approach Utica from multiple directions!
Mysticism->Mythology (6)
Berlin: Champ->Champ
Sioux complete The Hanging Gardens.

Turn 9 (550 BC):

I bombard the Russian Archer near Leipzig and kill it with a new Champ out of Berlin.

IBT:

Carthage loses an Archer to our TG at Utica, but he redlines us in the process. A Mongolian archer moves in for the kill and captures a Catapult along with Utica :(
Berlin riots. Stupid loss of Utica and the culture borders needed to control the Silver.
Hamburg riots, too.

Turn 10 (530 BC):

I call off the attack on Carthage and move troops back towards Utica.
Sci slider to 0 to avoid losing gold.

Post-op:

I should have watched the cities more carefully to prevent rioting. I should also have avoided exposing that first Champion to the Russian archer. Most importantly, I should have moved our troops back from Carthage once I spotted Mongolians invading our territory!

Ok, I got it.

I'm surprised that we finished Philo first. I thought it is impossible. Well done Empiremaker. Classical education was good, if we want the go for GL. But after that I would have choosen bronze, cause we need a better defense or masses of cats in every city. And our next offensive unit is the sword - as I mentioned above - so we need bronze.
The attack on Carthage wasn't lucky. Every capitol has a barack, so the units heal faster than your cats can bomb them done. Attacking the first time when all cats hit, would have been the best. But the attack came to late either, cause the numerics are really tough.
The appearance of so many enemies at Utica during our offense was bad luck.

What are we doing now?
We need Utica for silver. That should be no problem for our Carthage-stack. We should research on bronze and perhaps build walls in Utica then. Next we must connect the Iron with a colony, which must be guarded.

I think if I'd had 2 or 3 more Champions, I could have taken Carthage. I couldn't seem to get the Carthaginian defenders below 3hp though, and that would have been suicide for my attack (I figured 3 Champs per defender with the defenders at 3hp, and the cat bombardment was divvied up between two defenders).

Preturn:
For number of turns the year should end in 50 (and sometimes 00) until 1750 AD. This is the easiest way to know how many turns to play. For example, 530 BC will not be right - an extra turn was played - 550BC was correct. I will play 9 turns to even it out.

I raise the Lux rate to 30%. I often find it better to raise Lux than to hire taxmen - especially in the capitol. We also have a lot of money in the bank. I raise science to 30% as well. This puts us at negative money, but we have a decent amount saved (178) to allow us to do this.

IBT: A chariot attacks our Champion and kills it. Hamburg could be in real trouble.
We really shouldn't leave cities undefended in AW. I also think we stretched the attack a bit too much and should have kept more units home. Then we wouldn't have had the Utica issue.

510 BC: We retreat the Chariot with our Champ - fortunately into the forest. Otherwise we would have lost Hambug.

490 BC: Our attack force is back near Utica.

470 BC: Take back Utica, but it costs us 4 Champions to do so (bad RNG + def 3 units).

IBT: Carthage landing of a single Archer.

450 BC: Healing and building up forces for another attempt on Carthage.

430 BC: It still takes us 2 Champs to kill the Archer. Start Bronzeworking for the better defense.

410 BC: Bombard and kill an Archer near Utica.

390 BC: Another Chariot

IBT: Kills our Tribal Guard. RNG has been really lousy this turn.

370 BC: Kill the Chariot.

IBT: Another Archer near Utica appears.

350 BC:

Notes:
We are going after construction for Mining.

After next turn we will have 15 Catapults. That should hopefully allow us to take the city with Champs.

The capitol can build Spearmen in 2 turns. Keep it MMed to 15 shields so it can build one for every city. This will help hold them.

We are short of defenders for Utica. I would send the first Spearman there and then perhaps we can start the advance on Carthage.

One real reason for going for the more expensive swords is that lots of Champs costs us lots of gold. We can't run a deficit forever and we don't want to turn off science.

More cities will help the gold problem for unit costs. I am building a Pioneer. This could also be a 16th Cat if we prefer.

I stopped the capitol from growing as that would raise Lux which we can't really afford. We can grow again if the Captiol gets another defender.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/Emp1_BC350.jpg

I would build a city by the dyes, but would be hard to defend from Mongolian attacks.

PaGe you're up.

Roster
Greebley-just played
PaGe-up
Empiremaker-on deck
Elephantium

Preturn: a bit MM
IBT: carthagian archer came to Utica, Utica: cat->wiseman, Leipzig: cat->cat
Turn1: 3 cats hit archer, champ kills him.
IBT: nothing beside Berlin spear->spear
Turn2: spear & cats moving to Utica
IBT: Russian galley apeared. Not good.
Turn3: spear holds between Berlin and Leipzig, offensive stack now complete, set science to 50%
IBT: galley moved further, archer enters our territory, const->iron working, Berlin: spear->spear, Leipzig cat->?, Hamburg: Pioneer->wiseman
Turn4: spear towards Utica, the offense starts, moving TG out of Hamburg to explore the NW. There is another ressource of iron, but no good place for our pioneer, pioneer moving towards Leipzig, science back to 40%
IBT: damn, the galley unloaded a charriot, another one appeared by Utica
Turn5: Offensive stack moved back to recapture Utica, cause we will loose it, Cat from Leipzig towards Berlin, spear from Hamburg moving back.
IBT: The champ killed the archer, but looses against the chariot, we lost Utica, Berlin spear->spear, Leipzig riots cause the russian galley stoped at our high commerce field.
Turn6: Berlin: cat hit chariot, champ gets him down to 1HP, spear finishes him; Utica: 4 cats steal 3HP, Champ recaptured Utica, building walls now, rest of the stack waits.
IBT: carthagian archer appeared (towards Hamburg?)
Turn7: Stack moving towards Carthage, Pioneer save in Leipzig, Spear from Berlin on the way to Utica.
IBT: archer moves towards Utica, another russian chariot appears.
Turn8: Hoping Utica holds now, so the stack moved further towards Carthage. Silver-champ moving towards Utica.
IBT: Utica defends against chariot, another russian galley appears, carthagian archer moved on hills, Lhasa (Tibet) has completed the Great Wall
Turn9: Stack moved NE from Carthage (wanted to move on the mountain, but this would take one turn more). A reg. Mongol-Champ is there.
IBT: carthagian archer attacks and looses against spear, Mongol-champ passes our stack and was hit. The Mongols and Carthagians have a right of passage!
Turn10: cats fire on Carthage (8 hit, 4 failed): defender both down at 1HP, Champ kills one and makes a slave, second champ attacks and looses, unfortunately the numeric is promoted, has 3 HP now. Stopped offense on Carthage, wanted to take out the 2HP Mongol-Champ. But he doesn't want to die at the first attack :(. The second one finishes him and is promoted to Elite and gets a slave. Both slaves moving to the camels of Utica.

I've changed the wall in Utica to wiseman cause the spot at the dyes should be the next settling point and then Utica isn't the point of action. Leipzig now builds a forge. After captering Carthage we should move a stack of 2 or 3 spears and a few cats with the settler to the dyes. And we must explore our surrounding land to find good settling points. I was a bit unlucky not to know what is arround us. Perhaps there are horses, which we really need.

i got it.

I'll see what I can do to bring Carthage under the benevolent rule of me.

Just do it. I think the galley will unload a chariot NE of berlin. Because of this I moved the cat towards Berlin.

Pre Turn (0)- Hit enter.

IBT -TG and warrior pair appear 2S of Utica.

Hamburg completes wiseman-> Cat.

1 11/15 hit. 2 Numidians left in carthage.

I attack.

Bad RNG luck, I lose 4 champs, one of which elite. I felt that this was the best turn to attack before swords, since there was only 1 unfortified Numdian, and 1 fortified.

I change Utica to Worker Housing

I’m sending the slaves to connect the iron.

IW in 1

IBT See Russian Chariot

IW comes in, start on military training (Barracks)

Berlin Spear-> Spear

Leipzig- Harbor. Why is a settler fortified in Leipzig?

2- Start retreat from Cartage. Waiting for swords.

Reduce science to 20%, Military Training in 24

Income situation looks bad.

IBT- Russian warrior attacks Utica and dies.

3- Berlin to academy. Need to reduce costs.

Pioneer moves to BG next to dies along river.

we need money bad

Prepare to join native worker in Berlin to reduce unit costs.

IBT- See second russian chariot.

4- Leipzig Harbor- Wealth, we get +1 Gpt now, but I joined 2 workers to Berlin. We will get more unit support when we found the next city.

I switch Utica to forge to delay the -1 gpt. WE NEED CASH.

I switch Berlin to School of Scribes.

IBT- Russian chariot dies on Utica.

Berlin School of Scribes to wealth. (We’re at +5 now)

5- Leipzig- School of Scribes. We have enough spears for now, and unit costs are killing us.

IBT- Russian spear moves towards camels.

6- zzz

IBT- Chariot appears on city site. Champ dies trying to kill it. Wait a turn.

7- Champ kills Russian TG. Cover with spear.

IBT- Utica completes forge, Leipzig completes School of Scribes. Hamburg- Cat-monument.

8- Kill offending chariot with TG. Lose champ against other chariot.

IBT Lose TG to chariot. Tibet completes slave trade.

9- Bring in Catapult stack to eliminate chariot and to protect new city. TG in Hamburg moves towards iron for protection duty.

IBT- Chariot fortifies.

10- WHAT? Slaves can’t build colony? Or can colonies by built on tundra at all.

Hamburg-> pioneer. When complete move it 1 SE of iron near Carthage’s territory.

Road towards the iron.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Emp01_150_BC.png

Emp 01 50AD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Emp_01_50AD.SAV.zip)

No, slaves cannot build colonies, only native workers. Have I fortified the settler? Sorry. The problem was, that we haven't enough defenders for it. At least 2 spears (perhaps a champ) and one or two cats will be needed.
I completely forgot to look at the money. Cause I normally play no AW and then have no problem with it.
When I now see your unluck at Carthage, I think, I should have attack them at my turn. 3HP numeric against 3 champs left could have been the better chance. But I hate loosing units and haven't thought that they build another numeric in time. Else the cats could have bombed him down on 1HP.

Got it. Hopefully I'll have better luck this time.

So, what should I do? I have a rough idea to build some units and hopefully take Carthage, plus found a city near the dyes south of Utica.

Anything else?

I opened the save and saw that Berlin doesn't have a shrine. I would build it because then we can put down the lux slider. With a bit of starving it should be ready in 2R.
The same I would do in Leipzig after the academy. Cause this will be the next city, which needs entertaining.
I don't know, if we wanna connect the left iron with the city or the upper iron with a worker-colony. If last one, we must build a worker.

Building another Pioneer would be good. And place it between our actual 4 cities. So we have more unit support and have not to defend it with many units. A TG from somewhere should be enough.

And perhaps a bit of exploring would be good. I think the TG in Utica can be used for it.

Another think. I wouldn't build a reg. champ in Utica but a vet. in Berlin. The chariot should be managed by a spear.

Next tech: trade? for bazaars.

Did we get the Numidians down to 1 hp and still lose 4 champs? Or were they better off than that? Sounds like really bad RNG in any case. We are really having a lot more trouble with that city than we should be. Arg.

I agree we need to wait for swords at this point. The real problem is that the cats are using up a lot of our cash. More cities are equal to cash because they lower our unit expenses by 2. Back line cities could be useful, but make sure every city has at least one defender. Empty cities are only possible if in the middle of our empire and I don't think we have a middle yet.

The numerics had 6 (vet) and 8 (elite) HP and if 11 cats hit, they both should have 2 HP left. But perhaps the vet was again promoted and gets more HPs. Anyway no good RNG.

Page, what do you suggest building in Utica instead of a Champ? I was thinking Catapult, but we have a lot of those already.

Pre-flight:

Switch Utica to Walls per forum discussion.
Hit enter.

IBT:

Leipzig: Academy->Wealth

Turn 1 (70 AD):

Move Champion out of Berlin, moving towards large stack of Cats (to help kill the Russian Chariot, if it's still there when he gets there)
Berlin->Shrine
Sci and lux sliders to 10% each. We need gold!

IBT:

Our people want to build The Academy.
Vikings complete Stonehenge.

Turn 2 (90 AD):

Zzz...

IBT:

Utica: Walls->Wealth
More Russians join the chariot we've been bombarding! They now have 2 chariots and an Archer.

Turn 3 (110 AD):

Somehow, the sci slider got up to 30%. I lower it to 20% to gain +1gpt.
Bombard Russians...
Oh, we have a pioneer there. I'm going to risk a Germanic Spearman in attacking a Chariot...and I lose :(
Screw it, Utica starts building Champ. We need the muscle near the dyes NOW.

IBT:

Zzz...

Turn 4 (130 AD):

I spot a Mongol Chariot near Leipzig, who switches to Champion - I'll need it to attack them next turn.
We redline the Russians with Cats. I wish we had more troops so we could take advantage of this!

IBT:

Berlin: Shrine->Champ
Leipzig: Champ->Canoe (for scouting)
Utica: Champ->Champ

Turn 5 (150 AD):

I bombard the Russians - and a Mongol Asian Spearman who just climbed the mountain near our cat stack. Sigh.

I'm having a busy week, so I'm going to call it quits here and pass the save on to avoid making you guys wait.

Elephantium- Read the rules. No slider can go above 60% in Monarchy. If sci and lux are at 10%, then tax is at 80- which violates the rules.

Sorry to be harsh, but you are violating one of the challenges of RaR.

I *thought* it was strange that the sci slider kept jumping to 30%. Oops.

I should have been paying more attention, sorry.

Should my turnset be skipped, with the next person in line picking up the save that I just played from?

I thought of attacking the chariot with the spear at your first turn. When they got reinforcement of an archer, the risc to loose the spear is higher (as we have seen). For Utica I thought of the wiseman (research and no costs).
What should we do with the settler now. The spot he actually stands isn't the best, but let him wait for many turns wouldn't be good. Founding the city on the actuall spot will get the dyes after culture-expansion.

Greebley- You're up, Unless Elephantium can finish today or tomorrow, since he said he was busy.

Ok, I got it.

I don't think the slider is a big enough deal to play again. I will play form El's save.

Preturn: Adjust Lux to 20% and Science to 20%. Note that turning someone into a entertainer in the capitol costs as much as the higher lux and we get the benefit of shields, so we do better with Lux at 20%.

Just as a comment, I think that one lone Spearman is not sufficient for guarding the stack with a pioneer and all our catapults when it is on the front line. We could easily lose every one of our cats. I would have waited for the 3 Champions (they don't defend well, but they also mean at least 3 units have to attack to take the Cats).

Change all builds away from units in places that need buildings. We cannot make more units at negative gold. Decide to start the Colossus for the gold.

IBT: Our cats do survive.

170 AD: Our finances are not so good at 3 gold and -9 gpt. I settle the pioneer we had right where he is. That puts us at 0 gold. The town is worth 2 gold for unit support, using the settler reduced the number of units by 1, and finally the town itself makes 2 gold. I also put the new town on wealth for the turn to get to 3 gold and -3 gpt.

IBT: Units retreat.

190 AD: Pioneer from Hamburg builds Frankfort near the non-tundra Iron. Working on connecting up the iron.
We are now at 0 gold +1 gpt.

IBT: We get Mil Training and can now build Barracks. I start going for the GLib next (poetry etc).

210 AD: Bombard a Spear that approached Konigsburg.

230 AD Bombard a Chariot near Konigsburg.

250 AD: Start on Swordsman in Capitol.

260 AD: Kill a Chariot

270 AD: Kill a Chariot

280 AD: Not much

290 AD: Found Munchen on the coast near the capitol

300 AD: A bunch of Cats are lined up to bombard an invading Mongol Spearman next turn.

Notes:
We have had monetary issues. Right now we are running at 20% Lux, but only need 10% because poetry is still in 2. If we run 30% science to get to Lit faster, or cash goes down (due to round-off). To counteract this, I have put towns on building pioneers and such. More towns means more unit support. Once we have more towns we can try building swords for the assault on Carthage.

I think we need to go for GLib pretty quickly or we may miss it. Sun Tzu is already built.

After we get Lit we need to build a library and then the GLib. No prebuild is possible. I would also go for trade after Lit. We really need the cash. It may even be worth going for after Poetry (side track one tech) though it risks the GLib more.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/Emp1_AD300.jpg

I thought you can take down the lux slider and rise the research slider with a entertainer in Berlin. Else build a shrine to lower it. I also see the problem to get the GB, but then we must build more cities til trade, but I see you have started Pioneers already.

For the GB we can start a pre-build for the library. It will cost 40 or 80 shields. Is it cheaper due to the scientific trait?

Got it, but will play tomorrow. I'm tired from work.

I think it is cheaper but make sure using the civopedia.

The odd thing about the Lux slider is that there was no difference in the number of entertainers in any city but the capitol between Lux 10 and 20. Thus we actually gain by adjusting to 20% because we get 2 commerce, 3 shields and a food when working the tile. Given that the 20% lux only cost 1 gold more, it was a win. This can often happen. Once we have many or bigger cities adjusting the Lux will be too expensive, but not this early.

If I come up again before Monday, skip me - I'll be out of town this weekend.

IBT: spear moves on mountain by Utica, Rider moves to Königsberg
Turn1: cats (3/6) bombed down the spear, our sword wants to give him the rest, but dies :(, don't attck with reg champ, but move it on hills to blockade; Königsberg bombs down the rider, but no offensive unit in there.
IBT: rider and spear retreat, russian TG moves on mountain at Königsberg, poetry->Drama, Utica revolts, Berlin: Hardy->Spear,
Turn2: champ kills archer at Königsberg, reg champ kills spear at Utica and gets vet., cats (1/4) in Königberg steal a HP from TG
IBT: russian TG retreats, another rider visits us.
Turn3: cats (2/2) bombs down the rider
IBT: russian chariot appears, Berlin spear->spear, Utica: Pioneer->wiseman
Turn4: cats bomb down chariot
IBT: TG again moves to Königberg, chariot retreats, Frankfurt Monument->monument, Aztec completed Oracle
Turn5: cats (coming from Utica) bomb down the TG, our champ makes a slave of him, Cats from Königsberg move out and bombs down the riders.
IBT: again a chariot, Berlin: Sword->Spear, Frankfurt: Traing camp-> heroic epic, Königsberg: monument->wiseman
Turn6: bombing down everything around Königsberg, Champ makes a slave of a chariot, Champ kills rider and is promoted to elite, spear kills chariot and is promoted (was a misclick but I take it), sword kills the last one and stops in front of a chariot, the spear from Königsberg guards him.
IBT: Yuhu, our champ kills a chariot and is promoted. At the far north a transporter is sighted by our exploring worker.
Turn7: I saw the mongol cultureborder and moved the spear towards it. It is litely guarded, so I want to take it. Utica changed to worker housing, Königsberg to walls.
IBT: Damn, Tibet (where the hell is that) has build the GB.
Turn 8: Heidelberg found. -> harbor, Sliders 6.3.1 Drama in 4.
IBT: a mongol cataphract (3.2.2) appears near Leipzig.
Turn9: Destroyed mongol city (unfortunately it was only size 1), get 30 gold and a slave. Berlin changed to sword. cats moved out of Utica.
IBT: Cataphract moves towards empty Utica, Berlin: sword->spear, Utica: worker housing->wiseman, München: monument->wiseman
Turn10: Cats bombed down the cataphract and our sword makes a slave of him, Cats at old mongol city fired on champ/warrior and the elite sword kills him. Königsberg changed to wise-man. If we build a new city at the river-delta the pressure on Königsberg will be lowered.

I got it.

After we take Carthage, we should try to connect the olive oil with a harbor.

Before you take Carthage, you should take the other city of them. Then they only have the palace-defense-bonus once.
For the olive: The settler is on the way and a few workers too.

And I forgot the screen. There is a really much tundra, but some lux are also there.

edit: The spear between Frankfurt and Hamburg guards both cities!

edit2: after poetry we should research for trade.

Pre- Turn - Konigsberg switched to walls, Sci to 50%, Drama in 1.

Clear map and see fruit in fog 3SE of dyes along river.

Why did we build training camp in Leipzig rather than Berlin? The armies would be built faster.

IBT- Mongol cataphract comes onto mountain by Koingsberg.

Drama comes in, start research on literature, Sci to 40% (-2) gpt.

Koinsberg: Walls -> barracks.

1- Munchen to Harbor.

IBT- Mongol catapharct retreats.

Berlin Spear->cat

Hamburg Hardy Pioneer-> Hardy Pioneer

Frankfurt Wise -> Cat

2- Hurry Rax in Konigsberg

Scout and see Mongol border to the S along the road.

We need offensive units, so I MM Berlin, growth in 10, Sword in 2

3- See Mongol Pioneer and Spear, kill and capture 3 workers. Mongol city founded 1 E of rubble by the forest.

IBT- See lots of Mongol units. Canoe drops off Archer. Carthage sends Numidian to pillage camels

4- Kill Catapract and champ, and we get this message:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Leader_1.png [party]

Oh, and we also get a slave.

Found Murnberg by olive oil.

IBT- Koingsberg expands

5- Build army with leader- Fill with swords

Russian chariots are impending movement. We need spears and swords.

IBT- Mongolians or Russians land troops near Carthage.

Berlin- Sword-> Spear.

Frankfurt riots.

6- Kill Catapract with army, get slave.

Kill chariot, get slave.

7- We’re going to lose Frank or Ham this turn. I protect Frankfurt. I try to distract the chariot attackig Hamburg.

IBT- Because we lost Hamburg, income goes down, and we lose academy.

8- Kill 2 Mongolians, and we get

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Leader_2.png

Remove a chariot on the silver, but lose a sword.

IBT- Camels Pillaged

9- Literature comes in, Start on Trade, in 4.

Leipzig riots.

Tibet Completes Knight’s Templar. We’re way behind, but luckily the AI takes a while to come down lit path.

Retake Hamburg and 65! gold.

Kill yet another Chariot, and we get a slave.

Kill some Mongolian units.

IBT

10- Created army. I think this one should be a spear army, so that we have improved defense. I would load up spear into it, but I’ve left it to the next player.

Oilve Oil Connected.

Found Koln on north on gold.

Science to 60, Trade in 1.

NOTES

We need to kill the Mongolian archer in the tundra area.

We have 2 armies. I think one should be a sword, and one a spear.

When we have the troops, the poioneer should found a city- anywhere. I want some cities south of Leipzig.

Next up in Berlin- Great Library.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Emp01_500AD.png

Emp01, 500AD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Emp01_500AD.SAV.zip)

Greebley- Youre up, since Elephantium said he would be gone. But if you can't play today or tomorrow, we can wait for Elephantium.

AS I wrote: Tibet has build the GB! This will be a very hard game.
I think the training camp was build in Leipzig cause it has no baracks and nothing inexpensive things to do.
Next should be offense on the carthagians. But first their non capital. I would prefer 2 armies with swords. The armies then can be protected by several spears. That has the advantage, that we can capture cities more easy and the spears can be assigned to protect different cities.

Two leader sounds great. Hope that they appear more, so that we can build small wonders with them.
That rest doesn't look good on my point of view. Nürnberg and Köln are unprotected and a mongol sword roams in the tundra. Königsberg has hardly any defense and if our cat won't hit the cataphract will perhaps take it.

A suggestion to all is to use bold if something very important like building the Great Library. Also note though that GB is non-standard for english speakers and might be confusing. I was confused the first time I saw that term. I personally use GLib as GL is also great leader.

Edit: I think I will wait for Elephantium. Something came up for today.

Sorry :blush: . I haven't thought abut the akronym when writing it. Akronyms are nice since you have not to write the full name. But if you change the language they might change. I'll hope to think onit. For the future: If you have questions on my turn-log, ask them!

Oh. I didn't know GB was the GLib, I thought it was some other wonder since GL or GLib is common usage here. :blush:. In that case, the library build should be changed.

There is nothing else to build, I think. And since we need research now more than everything else, it's OK. After that spears for Köln and Nürnberg should be build and Swords for attacking the carthagians.

I am back from my vacation, and I am still on skip until Thursday at the soonest due to a very busy week at work.

Greebley- In that case you can take it.


Roster:
Greebley- up
PaGe- On deck
Empiremaker
Elephantium- Skipped until this Thursday.

Ok, I got it.

Edit: The uploads system seems very slow and I have not gotten the file yet. I will try again later.

Preturn: I advise against fortifying workers in a city. One cannot see them. I happened to notice them, but I could have missed them. Not sure why they were fortified in the first place though when there is so much to improve. We still need mines mostly, but a few squares need roads as well.

Early: Going after building a city near the Apple. Kill the Mongol town next to it first.
Tech: Trade, Weaving, Fermentation

Mid: Settle Hanover near Apple. Attack Carthage with a Sword Army. Turns out there was only 1 Num Spear there and we capture Carthage.
Tech: Code of Laws, Currency

Late: Capture Leptis Magna and destroy another Carthage town. The Carthaginians have been destroyed!
Tech: Polytheism. Started Civil Engineering.

Notes:
We have an imperial Guard Army. Save the next imperial guard (in 5-8 turns) for that army.

We have a Hardy Pioneer. I am thinking we should settle on the dot on the map below.

I was thinking of skipping the optional techs for now to try to catch up in tech. Not sure if that is best, but that is why Polytheism and Civ Eng. Only Monotheism left so 5 turns total.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/Emp1_AD600.jpg

Great job, Greebley. The settling spot is good.
But some question I have. Why are you building libaries in the new cities and not wise-man first? To reach the next era we have to research every tech with a mark on the upper right corner, aren't we? Why don't you research the 1-turn-techs first? But I'm not sure, if we need every tech. A couple of times I got into the new era although - I think - one tech was missing.

The next leader should be reserved for the forbidden palace. The corruption is very high in our new cities.

Our opponents already have invention, so the next offense will be harder. Be careful. And also knights will appear in a couple of turns.

We should build academies in Berlin and Leipzig. That will give us a little boost in research.

Elephantinum you are on, me on deck.

Do we want to build a city near the rice by Carthage. The city would be great for pop-rushing? Nice Job, Greebley.

Ya, a city there would be good I think. We definitely want more cities. We also want to grab the fur to the north.

Mostly Libraries because I want the border expansion. We are scientific so we get libs for only 40 shields which is no more than for a shrine. Monuments go obsolete not too long in the future so I figure a Lib at twice the sheilds is better.

I agree with a lib build. It is the cost of a wiseman and monument combined. But, Monuments never go obsolete, and even if they did, the culture would continue. The only downside is +1 maintinance, but libs open up a number of other buildings. We can always build a wiseman next for even more science.

Got it, I'll be able to play on Saturday.

Edit: Skip me again.

FILE NOT FOUND
Art\Units\Longboat\Longship_default.flc

I'll have to fix this before I can play again :(
I don't suppose anyone else has run into this type of thing before...?

I take it.

Elephantium- Have you installed the 1.04 units, or have you checked the unit files for a longboat? Rechck DocT's instructions on installing 1.04.

Roster:
Greebley
PaGe- Playing
Empiremaker- on deck
Elephantium- Skipped until further notice.

pre-turn: some MM

turn1: Sword kills bow, spear the other one

IBT: engineering -> wheel

turn2: cats+champ kill bow

IBT: a mongol transporter appeared, luckily they don't attack, wheel -> sailing

turn3: moving a defensive unit from the central to coastal cities. Space a academy at Berlin in.

IBT: wheel -> slavery

turn4: found bremen, mongol-city is only at 1 -> stop offense, Berlin: academy -> toll-house,

IBT: sword dies to a heavy horse, slavery -> riding

turn5: cats+sword-army kill bow, cats+guard-army kill cataphract,

IBT: transporter unloads a heavy horse at Hamburg :(, next Imperial guard is produced, Aztec build Shangri La,

turn6: imperial guards heads for the horse

IBT: Heavy horse does no damage at carthage (down on 1HP), mongols steal cats with an horse archer, riding -> naval warfare (a good naval unit could hold the backyard clean).

turn7: take back the cats, horse archer killed, empire's pride fails at a 1 HP TG :blaw: May he rest in peace. The 2nd Great champ takes revenge and makes a slave of him

IBT: Heidelberg builds Harbor -> library

turn8: imp-guard kills heavy horse, danger averted

IBT: some more heavy horses appear near Hannover

turn9: kill a horse and a bow

IBT: A heavy horse fails at our spear. seafaring->lateen sail, Tibet builds copernicus

Turn 10: Imp.-guard-army filled
_______
Tibets are really power-full.
They build: Angkor Wat, The Colossus, Copernikus (Gartokh), GLib (Lhasa), Great Wall (Lhasa), Leonardo, Silk road (Lhasa), slave trade, sphing (Lhasa), Sun Tzu (Gartokh), Knights Templar (Lhasa), Mausoleum (Gartokh)

What strategy should we take? On our continent we are the best, but Thibet on the other continent is nearly unbeatable in AW IMO.

And the save.

elephantinum, have you solved the problem?

Elephantinum is on
Empiremaker on deck

I'll take it tomorrow if Elephantium can't take it.

Why did we research the wheel and riding?

I'm going to change Lateen Sail to Monotheism.

I thought, we must research every tech that is marked at the upper right corner. Is it wrong? Nobody gives an answer to my question above.

Lateen sail is good to build a galeass. This can attack transporter, which wants to bring horses or something like this to Carthage or further. It was really annoying, when the horse was dropped, cause we have no cats, no offensive and only a few defensive units there. One city is guarded by a reg champ!

Why do you want Monotheism first?

The ones with marks aren't required. Monotheism would send us into the Middle Ages. War Galleys can eleminate gallies. We should research Stirrup, Warrior Code, and Vassalage in that order.

You live and learn. Then we I made a couple of turn stupid research. Skip it immediately. Perhaps we should repeat my turns either. We are at least 8 techs behind tibet.

I'll solve this tomorrow night at the earliest; Wednesday is more likely. To be honest, I'm a bit frustrated with RaR for not working despite my having followed the instructions about where to put various downloads.

Pre turn- Research to Monothesim

Hannover to Barracks

IBT- Kongisberg build Pioneer, start granary. More Mongols

1- Kill enemies

IBT- Monotheism comes in, start on stirrup. (War Camels: 4.3.2-1 HP)

2- Nothing

3- Get a leader, Hurry Forbidden Palace in Koingesberg

Hurry Trierme in Leipzig.

4-Found Stuttgart

IBT- Keshik pops out of Choybalsan and kill sword. Will lose slave too.

5- Find Ullanbater by Mongol dyes

Carthage starts on Pioneer

IBT Stirrup- Warrior Code (MDI)

6- See Viking Galley, Declare, and sink it.

Unlanbatter has Keshik in it.

IBT- Nothing exciting

7- Raze Choybalsan, Found Bonn

8- Nothing exciting

IBT- Warrior Code, Start on Vasalage

9- Berlin to water mill

IBT Leipzig starts on Hardy Pioneer, move to gold south of Leipzig.

10- Found Salzburg

Notes:

Hook up the tropical fruit.

Use the two stacks to push into mongol territory

Start research toward alchemy (Better artillery)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Emp_01_800_AD.png

Emp 01 800 AD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Emp01_800AD.SAV.zip)

Should I play next or wait for Elephantium?

If you can play tonight or tomorrow, go ahead, if not you can wait.

I think I can play tomorrow so I got it.

Preturn: Chooses on builds seem good. Hit enter.

This Jungle in the south is good for us. Slowing speed 3 units down to a single square can really help - we get first attack and Catapult bombard. We also have a thinning of the continent that will be a nice line of defense if we need it (better would be to continue to expand).

BTW, something I keep forgetting and is too late to mention now other than for your own info, but Tribal guardsmen do NOT cost upkeep. This makes them great for MP duty. Never upgrade or disband them. I mention this because I see very few, so we must have done this.

IBT: Gutenburg's Bible is being built. We are really behind...

Early: Erdenet is Destroyed. We capture several workers. Lose a few swordsmen - just not used to speed 3 units this early.

Mid: Start another Hardy Pioneer so I can lay down two towns on my turn. Start an attack on Krakorum.

Late: Raze Krakorum. Poor RNG means this cost us some units, but can't be good for the Mongols. Raze another coastal town just south of Stuttgart.

Notes:

I came up with an idea for a dot map (see picture below). The jungle squares mean no fast units can attack out town so we can bombard them and kill the units. We also can move defenders between cities when needed. It looks pretty strong to me.

Note that an elite + vet Spearman (or better) doesn't seem to be attacked in jungle, rather the AI goes around. If you want to minimize unit loss, you should cover with at least that strength

Note that there are units that will attack and kill our Armies. The Imperial guard army is still good in defensive terrain, but be careful with it. Right now there are no spearmen or Pikes with it. Wait for 2 to join it before you advance into clear terrain. The sword army is just bait the AI will attack. From past experience if you leave it defended only lightly (less than the elite+ vet Spear mentioned above) it will be attacked. Defense 1 armies are very fragile.

We might want a Camel army for the defense, though another Imperial guard army is equally valid (when we get another leader that is).

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/Emp1_AD900.jpg

Nice work, Greebley. PaGe, go ahead and take it. (We'll slot Elephantium in after my next turn so that the roster is less confusing.)

Well done.
The next player should sell all worker housing. They are useless now.
Next techs: engineering, then metallurgy and warfare.
Next place to settle should be the green dot.
There are horses at Ta-tu.

edit: I got it.

Oh, I forgot to mention for tech I got us the ability to irrigate lands for city growth.

After that I was heading for engineering. Bridge building will help our mobility a good bit. Metallurgy and Warfare sound decent to go for after that.

Getting horses would be nice for the higher attack than our camels. We need another tech for the attack 6 move 2 horsies. We can get that when we are nearer to connecting the horse.

Engineering is researched, so the rivers won't stop us anymore. Irrigation is advanced. Be aware they might grow fast and cause trouble. Alchemy gave us 2 ressources of salpeter, so that won't be a problem. Freiburg and Kiel are found, the next settler is in position. On the blue dot the russians found a city, which can be taken at size 2 (in a few turns). The Sioux (2 Pioneers, Imp. Guard, spear) visited us with a longboat near the place of Freiburg. Declared war and got 6 slaves.
We have a new leader (in Hannover) :banana: . What shall we do with him? An army or rushing the royal tournament (-> Knights of the realm (6.2.2) every 12 turns, obsolte with chichen itza, which can be researched last in 2nd era). Would prefer royal tournament.

The mongols have Keshiks (5.1.3) instead of mounted archers, which can move over mountains and hills like grassland. Was a bit hard at the first moves cause of all the roads in the jungle. In the middle of my turns they don't appear. We should pillage their horse ressource to stop them. Ta-tu expands 2 turns before and again there is now one Keshik on the mountain.
At Dortmund I started chopping the forest. Will be finished in 8 turns.
The next (and last) Imperial guard will be produced in 1110 AC. Would be good to reach theory of warfare (makes it obsolute) after that date.

The russian now started gutenberg, too. I think the contact with the sioux gave both (mongol and russia) a push.

Perhaps we should sacrifice a worker in the city to be found (yellow dot) to get control of the roads in the jungle and the tile next to Rostov.

Nice Job. We're making progress.

I got it, but I probably won't be able to play until Friday.

Now that we have irrigation don't be shy about building pioneers when we can get away with it. It would be nice to grab all the good lands to the north. Otherwise every civ will send over settlers and we will meet them all quickly. Plus the coastal cities will generate some commerce for us. Note for locations that are not very useful we can prevent settling by cutting down forests. I don't think you can settle in tundra - only if it has a forest (we may want to check that, but I think it is true).

Edit: I forget the rules between pioneers and hardy ones in where one can settle. Might want to just check them out so we don't send the wrong type.

Alternatively, if we have already met everyone then leaving an area where the AI tries to settle and we kill it for workers can be profitable.

City count in general is good for us with more unit support. We do want to get to another government type though so we can lower corruption.

BTW, I really should have mentioned it, but I sent a peasant up to build a fur colony. I hope that was apparent (why the strange looking worker was up north). If not he can do it now.

I build the colony. The lux-sliders is at 0%.
The hardys were good to travel through jungle. Else you must build roads even at the settling point. In the north only one attractice point is left (between gold and olives). I also work the mountain and not the hill in Köln, cause the growth of the city can't be hold.

Have we explored the entire north? Its worth sending a unit up there.

I like having the coast entirely visible even if it means a few poorer coastal cities. Dealing with landings without towns gets annoying. The cities support the units (in terms of unit cost) needed to defend it.

I haven't explored it further. Seems to be a job for a slave. If we have luck, there are whales for a bit of production. But that means we can settle there.

Oh forgot to mention an opinion on the leader.

I guess I lean toward the Royal tourney since our armies can only be size 2. OTOH, our sword army is going to become obsolete soon, so I it is not a strong opinion.

I do think our NEXT leader should be an army if we do go for the Royal Tourney.

What abaut the Roy. Tour. in the "yellow city". It produces culture and we can steal the tile from the russian city and will get control of roads soon.

Pre turn- Raze russian city

See lots of russian Elephant riders.

Clocks in 2

1- Start upgrading catapults to bombards when I get salt connected

2- Found new berlin, hooks up incense. Raze Rostov

3- Clocks -> Matchlock

4- Royal tournament hurried in new berlin, another leader -> army. Fill it with Imperials, Knights of the Realm, Knights, and cavaliers.

Royal Tournament built in 1030 AD (Turn 218), First KotR turn 230

5- Not much.

I’m turning it over here since I don’t have more time to play.

NOTES:

Troops in New Berlin should assault Ta-Tu for Horses.

Research: Matchlock- Metallulgary- Chivalry (Trying to get 1 last imperial guard), theory of warfare- Absolutism (Better gov’t).

Hurry Barracks in new berlin.

Send Trireme over top of continent

We need more cities in jungle.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Picture_1.png

Emp01 1050 AD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Emp01_1050AD.SAV.zip)

Elephantium- You are up if you got your computer problems sorted out.

Don't invest research in chivalry since theory of warfare is that near. Better take usury cause we need it for absolutism.

Elephantinum are you ready for some turns?

Cavaleiers are good since Curissiers are 50% more expensive for +1 move and +1 HP. I would build mostly curissiers, but cavaliers would be nice when speed isn't important, since 3 cavaliers have more hp than 2 curissiers.

I wnat to research Chivalry just for the option. Its cheap.

Okay, that's a good reason. But do we need the mameluks. If we can abondon them, we mustn't research warfare now and will get more imp. guards.
But Metallurgy will still be needed.

I will give Elephantium the standard 24 hours - hopefully he can grab it. If not I will grab it tomorrow.

Greebley- looks like you can grab it. We haven't heard from elephatium for a while.

PaGe- Go ahead and play now.

Got it. Will play in a few hours. Greebley, if you wanna play first, just do it.

Conclussion:
Tibet build Shakespeare and Gutenberg.
I've build several defensive units, so we can guard our offensive stack and the new cities. The Cavalier-production has started.
Hannover is a problematic city.
2nd imp-Army filled
I don't research theory of warfare, so we can get another imp. guard
Next we should build some tax buildings again.
If we have money and cats in a city with baracks they should be upgraded. Cannons are much better.
A slave explores the north (I don't send the galley, cause it should cover the north from russian longboats).

Where should we settle next. The spot at the bananas should be obligate. We should catch the other horses next, but on which spot?

Infos for the next player:
! Keep enough defensive units with our offensive stack. The pikes aren't the best. Even for an Elephant they are no problem (lost 3 pikes against them).
- Berlin builds the clock. After that it can produce cavs within 2 turns.
- Hannover has happiness problems. Because of that I started a shrine
- Darhan was taken in the actual turn.
- The 2nd imp-army (and the camel) killed a enemy and than take a look at the russian territory. But can be moved back to the offensive line. Perhaps the camel can stay at the fortress to control the russian offense.
- The settlers are on the way. The next city can be found next turn at the bananas.

I had a huge game come up. I can play now and I have got it.

Sorry for the delay. I thought I had posted.

Go ahead and play Greebley.

Preturn: Definite progress since last time. Builds look pretty good .

Early: Autodestroy some Russian city.
Vikings have been destroyed.
We lose our sword army as it cannot kill a 3 hp pike when at full health. Its the problem with 2 unit armies.
Tibet pops up and I declare war.
Sci Method complete. Start Theory of Warfare.

Get a leader for a new Army. Going to wait for theory of Warfare to get a speed 4 army of Cuirassiers.

Mid: Capture Moscow and Odessa from Russia
Capture Hovd from the Mongols

Late: Raze St. Petersburg.

Notes:
We are close to owning our whole continent (picture below). My 3 attack forces are the red arrows. There are 2 mongol cities and a pioneer (pioneer is in our land and can be picked off by the Cuirassier Army next turn).

Russia still has horses and can build fast units. Beware of this - it is easy to miss something and lose a unit (or city). Finding the Horses and taking them will really help against having to defend a lot of locations.

We have 3 armies. The sword army was replaced by the Cuirassier Army.

We need to defend better vs landings in our core. I got one and had to use a Pike on offense. Specifically we need high speed units that can attack and cover a lot of ground. I suggest Cuirassiers. Put them in a central location so they can attack the largest number of possible landing squares.

There is a hill in the North of our continent that the AI can land on and probably will. At some point lets move some offense up there so we can pick off Settlers that land.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/Emp1_AD1250.jpg

Well done Greebley. The sea in the middle of the continent looks good. Makes our offense easier. The misfortune with the sword-army is ok. This unit wouldn't have been usefull in the future.
At the screen the slider is at 80%, higher the lux-slider. In Almarik an engineer should be hired, else it will grow to fast with no production.

Now we have contact with the tibet. At which point we got the contact, cause I think this side must be heavier protected. I made some shoots of the stats.

Good work. Tibet is really running away with this game.

I got it, and I will play on Friday.


Roster:
Greebley
PaGe
Empriemaker- up
Elephantium- Satus??

oops, I lowered like regular civ and lowered science too much without thinking about it. Fix that before ending turn (We could just increase Lux for a turn).

(The cap limit on gold is still 60% BTW) so 10% sci and 30% lux.

Edit: Looks like we have to worry about a Culture victory from Tibet at some point. They probably own most of a huge continent that will be very hard to establish a beach head on.

0- Nothing

IBT- Education -> Astronomy

1- Capture Baruun-Urt

2- Need Settlers

Keiv Falls to the Glorious Germans, So does Smolenesk.

Tibet has 165 cpt. (235 turns at current rate, turn 477)

Astronomy -> Navigation

KotR produced

3- Capture Sevatopol and a catapult.

Capture Minsk

4- Disconnect Mongol Colony

We need more production multipliers in our better cities.

7 Russian, 1 Mongol city left on our glorious island

5- Navigation -> Usury

6- Usury- Banking

Krasnoyak auto-razed

Tblisi Auto-razed

Yatusk auto-razed

Sverdlovsk auto-razed

Berlin Begins Pyramids, for border expansion in all the corrupt towns in the south.

Found New Berlin

7- First Carrack comes out to find Tibet

Novogorad auto-razed

IBT- Tibetan Ship spotted in fog

8- Nurmerenburg builds shipyard. Build naval units there.

Vladiovostok auto-razed

Leader appears. Will build cuirassier army

Aztec borders found

9- Enter Aztec territory

Riga Captured,

Russia Eliminated

Tsetserleg auto-razed

Mongols destroyed

Continent Secured

We need lots of pioneers. Delay absolutism until settling is complete, otherwise shield cost doubles and movement doubles.

IBT Tibet lands 2 Dragoons

10- Start on Map Making. I should have saved the leader for the IP. :blush:

Dragoons Destroyed

I’ve staioned some troops on the coast to guard against landings.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Emp01_1300AD.png

The Save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Emp01_1300AD.SAV.zip)

Well done, Empiremaker.
I need a skip til Friday. If Elephantium won't play, Greebley should take it.

Ya, agree. Lets skip him until he shows back up again and can play.

I got it.

Great work on securing the continent.

Preturn:

BTW, barracks actually matter when building cannon since they can defend - It doesn't matter a lot - I merely mention it because I noticed a town without barracks building one and it reminded me.

I think I will spend my turn building infrastructure since we now own the continent. I will concentrate on shields and science. My other goal will be to see if I can locate Tibet. I think we need to slow them down.

I am also not a big fan of building regular pikes in cities - especially in RaR. Offensive units are all stronger so a regular Pike doesn't have much chance of holding off an attack by some attack 6 unit. Instead I am building Harbors, workers, pioneers, etc. and will have some major town build some vet pikes and cuirassiers.

IBT: Quiet

1305 AD: Exploring with the army I already find an Axtec landing with two settlers. Kill 2 of 3 of the defenders.

IBT: Interesting: 1 defender and 2 settlers - one of the settlers is left standing undefended. AI isn't programmed to handle that case.

1310 AD: Nice! My attack on the last settler defender gives us a leader. We get the International Port after all. I am putting it in Munchen who has lots of coastal tiles and is near the capitol.

1315 AD: Find Tibetan lands with the Carrack sent across.

1320 AD: Tibet owns Aztec cities. No suprise there. We finish the Pyramids. Excellent choice for a wonder BTW as we can really use the boundary expansions.

1325 AD: Another attempt to settle by the Sioux - we get 3 workers from the settler. Kill a Tibetten boat.

1330 AD: Decide to go for Absolutism now. There are some techs we could work on but they don't give us anything.
I pop rush some pioneers to get them done before the govt switch. This will get us very close to the number we need.


1335 AD: Send of some of the pioneers. International port is finally rushed with the leader.

1340 AD: Get Absolutism and revolt. 7 long turns.

1350 AD: 5 more to go. I set Moscow to the Summer Palace. It seemed a good spot in the south.

Notes:
Very quiet turns - no attempt at landings - just two landings for settling.

Next player gets 5 turns of Anarchy. I would suggest the next player can play 15 turns if he wishes as the first 5 will be nothing.

I would continue to build Infrastructure to increase shields, science, and commerce. Other cities could use Courthouses or Aquaducts. We could use a few fast troops for city protection. Coastal cities should start producing boats as soon as we get Merchantilism (galleons) as well as boats to protect the Galleons.

We need a fast unit up in the northwest to defend against landings. There is a speed 4 Army that can be used to protect any city in the core.

I made a picture of the far coast. I would like to find the Tibettan core - don't think we have found it yet. There is another Carrack going east to find the coast.

Tibet still has more land than we do %land area. Thats pretty scary. We will be close when we have settled out the continent and gotten border expansions.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/Emp1_AD1350.jpg

I got it. Nice turns.

Pre-Turn- nada

IBT- Little Bighorn (Souix) completes Sistine

Tibet Starts Edison’s Workshop

1- Found New Leipzig

Found New Hamburg

IBT- Tibet finishes Estates General

Aztecs start on Enclypeidie

2- Aztecs land, elminate force

3- See Tibetan cavalry

IBT- Tibet completes Encylcopedie in Sikiim

Tibet completes Newtons in Kumbum

4- See outpost for the first time. Good location for it.

Found New Konigsberg

IBT- We enter Absolute Monarchy

Sioux start smith’s

5- MM out of Anarchy

Summer Palace to Smells

Tibet has rifles.

Tibet has at max 3 techs until League of Nations. If they build it before they research Totlarinarnism, we lose.

Reboot Game since I got the “Maximum Hypertext Links” warning

This is as much as I’m playing now since I don’t really feel like re MM the cities coming out of anarchy. [pissed]

I think your decision to move the Summer Palace was a sound one. I have been having second thoughts on Moscow. Its not like vanilla civ or civ 4 where the location is really important and Moscow just isn't that great.

A single run away civ is about the worst case scenaro IMO. Definitely search the coast for Sikiim. If it is coastal and we can grab it, we will catch uip at least with the other two civs if not Tibet.

The only way I know to influence Tibet to not produce League of Nations is a costly and bloody war.

How about this plan: Switch builds to Military and boats and go after Tibet full speed. Even if we don't do well, we may be able to switch them away from wonders and we will start paring down their units. Problem is that we are behind in tech so it might not really work especially if they can sink our boats and kill our best defensive units (they have attack 8 cavalry - if we land on a mountain we can make the Cavalry attack in our favor when attacking Pikes (4 with +100 def + 25 fortify = def 10 - more if we can build a fort).

So we need a biggish Pike stack, units to take out nearby cities, workers for a fort, and possibly a settler. Getting Cannon on the mountain may prove tough. Getting the Galleons will be key. If we have units that upgrade to Galleons we can start building them and then upgrade.

Not sure if our armies will be attacked. Def 2 or less then yes. Def 3 may be able to survive in hills and mountains at full health. I wouldn't trust flatlands.

Oh I forgot that I would be up again. I got it.

I'm actually still playing. The rest of my turns should be up shortly.

Oops, ya. I knew that...yesterday at least. Forgot today. :D

5- (Redo) Nothing

IBT: Caravel attacked by Artillery reduced to 2/6

Mercantilism -> Naval Cannon (Better Warships)

6- We can upgrade workers to laborers

IBT- See Aztec Galley

7- KotR produced

IBT Naval Cannon -> Leadership

Berlin culture expands

Start many shipyards

Tibet starts Crystal Palace

Tibet starts Universal Suffrage

8- zzz

9- Leadership -> Cavalry Tactics

Sioux boat spotted

IBT Aztecs drop off 2 SW of Almrikh on the BG. The AIs like dropping off there

10- Leipzig and Munchen complete their Galleons

Galleons have 7 transport capacity, so with the 2 we can get 14 units over.

Start loading troops at Leipzig

Leader [party] Build Military Academy in Berlin

Notes: Tibet’s core isn’t coastal, but I thinks its East of Kumbum/Gerze/Barkhal.

Some techs can be researched in 1 at 0/9/1, but at -150 gpt.

I didn’t get many new cities, so we need to continue to settle.

Carracks can bomb/ explore other edge of Tibet’s continent.

The save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Emp01_1400AD.SAV)

Ok, now I got it.

EmpireMaker,
The file seems to be of the wrong format (or at least I get the message that I get when a file is corrupt). Can you provide a zipped version? I downloaded it twice and it was bad both times so I don't think it a problem with the download.

Is this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Emp01_1400AD.SAV.zip) better. I thought I uploaded a zipped save, but I didn't.

Sorry for my long silence - the last week has been ultra-busy at work. I should be able to take a turnset this weekend.

Elephantium, nice to hear something from you. I don't know if Greebley started his turns already. But after him you can make some turns. I don't mind if you take more than the 10 turns. After you I'm ready to take it.

Roster:
Greebley- Playing
Elephantium- On deck
PaGe- In the hole
Empiremaker- Gone until monday

Nice to see you Elephantium. Lots has changed.

Preturn: MM a bunch.
Start moving some units for the attack on Tibet.

IBT: Must be 10 turns after the Pyramids as every town expands. Get Cav Tactics. I am going to go for the cheapest tech

Early: Debate using leader for summer palace because 96 turns is too long to wait for it. Decide it is silly to rush a 200 shield wonder instead of a 770 one as suggested by EmpireMaker. Instead I choose a non-corrupt town to build the Summer palace. Less good for distance corruption, but better overall I think. Built some more Galleons. We wouldn't have enough by the time I would want to cross.


Mid: Start sending over 4 galleons with troops (3 armies & 19 regular).

Late: Capture Gomo. It is only size 1 now so I keep it. It is isolated by mountains so it is a good keeper.

Notes:
My Plan of Attack:
I JUST moved the army off the mountain so the AI may react. If it does send the imperial guard army back to guard the single mountain square that connects up our town. My guess the AI WILL react but that moving the Imperial guard army back will fix it.

There are 2 cannon that are NOT with the main attack stack. They couldn't land on the Mountains. I would wait for them before attacking Barga (one turn).

I don't think we will be able to keep cities. With the AI having attack 8 cavalry and attack 8 def 6 trenchers, progress will be slow. We need the Cannon to bombard cities before we attack. I would slowly go across their land with Cannon and raze cities keeping only gomo as a launching point

I am sending over a worker for sacrifice giving 20 culture and an instant expansion. This is a really powerful ability in RaR. You can sacrifice units for instant border expansion. For this reason I would prefer not upgrading foreign workers.

Seperate from the sacrifice more workers would connect the wines up faster for our first Lux not on our continent.

Remember one of our goals is to keep Tibet from build the League of Nations, so we should keep up the attack.


Here is a picture:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/Emp1_AD1450.jpg

The save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/14765/Emp01_1450AD.zip)

Roster:

Greebley - Just Played
Elephantium - Up
PaGe - On Deck
Empiremaker

One thing I forgot to mention is that I was planning on the Imperial Guard army pillaging the tile. Since that doesn't take a movement point it is "free"

Note that I think we will eventually rebuild the roads and cover with armies when it not Tibetan territory. We will want workers over there to fix things again.

Great Job, Greebley. I was suprised that you were able to capture a town.

Once we get flintlock, we can use colonial marines to amphibiously attack.


We may be able to bybass Bharga and go straight for Lahari.

It nearly cost us an army which is why we need the cannon. We should keep building those.

They are defense 6 and we are attack 6 so its not too bad. Like Cavalry vs Rifles - you take some losses without artillery support.

I think I would wait for more Cannon before trying a major city like Lahari. I would want at least 6 with more being better.

Got it! I have some catching up to do.

Begin and IBT: Look around a bit. Wow, we're big.

Artillery in Gurze shells one of our Sloops of War. 3hp left.
Berlin: Cannon->Cannon
Ta-tu riots. We hire a scientist.
Leipzig: Corvette->Corvette
Minsk: Harbor->Galleon
Sevastopol: Harbor->Cannon
Nurnberg: Corvette->Corvette
Hannover: Hardy Colonist->Hardy Colonist
Brandenburg: Cavalier->Dragoon
Kiel: Corvette->Corvette

Turn 1 (1455 AD):

Move a lot of troops. Tibet sent three Adventurers forward with an army to the mountain near Barga, so I pulled our forces back to better fight them. We kill one of the adventurers this turn (1-0).

IBT:

We discover Jurisprudence and advance into a new scientific age. Researching Steam Power.
Utica: Cuirassier->Dragoon
Hamburg: Musketman->Dragoon
Freiburg: Courthouse->Dragoon
Konigsberg: Musketman->Cannon
Munchen: Galleon->Cannon
Heidelberg: Port->Cannon
Gomo deposes us, returning to Tibetan control. Ouch. We just lost an army :(

Bremen: Cuirassier->Dragoon
Dortmund: Cannon->Cannon


Turn 2 (1460 AD):

At Gomo,
Cuirassier vs. Machine Gunner (1-1)
Cuirassier vs. Machine Gunner (retreat, 1-1)
Mameluk vs. MG (2-1)

We have Gomo again. Making Barracks.
Sacrifice Worker in Gomo. Border expands seaward.
Elite Cuirassier vs. Tibet army (3-1)
Mameluk vs. Adventurer (4-1)
War Camel vs. Adventurer (5-1)

IBT:

Berlin: Cannon->Dragoon
Almarikh: Harbor->Courthouse
Leptis Magna: Corvette->Cannon
Resistance in Gomo ends.
Regensburg: Courthouse->Cannon
Stuttgart: Shipyard->Port
New Konigsberg celebrates WLTK Day.

Turn 3 (1465 AD):

near Gomo,
Mameluk vs. Amphibious Infantry (5-2)
Cuirassier retreats
Cuirassier kills Tibetan A.I.

IBT:

Our exploring Sloop of War gets bombarded by Tibetan Arty near Nyima.
Carthage: Wind Mill->Dragoon
Horse Hodoo riots. We hire Philosopher.
Leipzig: Corvette->Cannon
Gomo: Barracks->Monument

Turn 4 (1470 AD):

Knights of the Realm vs. TAI (6-2)
Land lots of catapults, etc. in Gomo and move them to the lovely mountain pass chokepoint.

IBT:

New Hamburg: rax->Courthouse
Konigsberg: Cannon->Dragoon
New Leipzig: rax->Courthouse

Turn 5 (1475 AD);

Corvette vs. Aztec Galley, we have a new Prize Ship!
At Barga:
Elite Mameluk vs. Trencher (6-3)
Cuirassier army vs. TAI and Trencher (8-3)
Mameluk vs. Trencher (9-3), razing Barga.

I'm going to call it a day and pass on the game to the next person.

Ouch on the army loss - the odds of a size 1 city flipping with an army in it is very small though I guess we did have border problems as well (so even if we replaced the city with our own, it could still flip.

The next player could replace the town with a settler of our own, though I suspect razing lhari would be more effective - we could also rush culture to get a border expansion if Lhari looks too hard.

I think I would have lost the army as well if it is any consolation. That must have been very frustrating.

The loss of the army weakens our attack really, but they will pay the prize :evil:. I'll switch the monument to a harbor, cause we then get luxies and ressources on the other continent.

Got it.

preturn:
Several MM. Better use the engineer in corrupt cities and build court-houses; else they produce only 1 shield and 1 commerce.

IBT:
a cav killed a mameluk, souix and tibet moved some forces to gomo, steam power->nationalism (we have coal on our hole continent)
Berlin: Dragoon->Dragoon
Utica: Dragoon->Dragoon
Freiburg: Barracks->Forge
Frankfurt: Cuir->Cuir
München: cannon->cannon
Salzburg: cannon->cannon
Kiel: corvette->ship-of-the-line

turn1:
killed souix lonboat
Emden found
unfortunately cats and cannons cannot travel through jungle.
the forces at gomo bombed down on 1Hp or killed,

IBT:
a cav killed a pike, ouch Tibet really has much of them.
Königsberg: court-house->cuir
Lüneburg: cannon->cannon
Hannover: hardy->musket
Riga: Harb-> court-house (with engineer)
Bremen riots (gets entertainer)

turn2:
still manage troops at gomo. Get a leader

IBT:
unbelievable, but true: The tibetian settle next to our hugh stack. Hope they have enough money to spent us.
Leipzig: col.mar->dragoon
Leptis: cannon->adventurer (has not that bad defense and can look behind the lines for approaching enemies.
Dortmund: Aquäduct->Musketman

turn3:
destroyed the new city, get 53 gold
kill another 5 cavs

IBT:
nationalism->industr
Berlin: Dragoon-Hussar
Heidelberg: major port->forge
Köln: Cannon->line inf.
1000smeels: court-house->forge

turn4:
killed cav, 2 trencher, amph. inf, oda arqb.
skipped several cities to line inf since def is our biggest problem.

IBT:
the first tibetian tank appeared, lost a halbedier, defend against oda arq.

turn5:
army kills tank
4 cavs, 1 amph inf., 2 trencher

IBT:
a cav killed a halbedier,
Berlin: line inf->line inf (2R!)
Hamburg: Dragoon->Hussar
München: line inf->bazaar
Leptis: adven->hardy
Bremen: Arena->academy
Stuttgart: forge->wiseman

IBT:
found new frankfurt and sacrifice the tibetian worker for expansion

turn6
killed 2 cavs, 4 trencher, captured a settler

IBT
musk holds against cav in new frankfurt, cav retreats,
Frankfurt: line inf->line inf.
Bonn: Husar->wiseman
Hannover: Bazaar->toll house
Brandenburg: wiseman->arena

turn7:
killed cav, moved towards Barkhal, switched the bigger cities to tax-buildings cause we run at -5 at 40% tax

IBT
indust.->steam engine
Kiev: Court-house->Forge
Freiburg: Forge->wiseman
Salzburg: line inf.->Husar
Nürnberg: Toll house->Bazaar
Bremen: arena->toll house

turn8:
put down the lux-slider to 10%, hired some entertainer and start some buildings for happiness.
kill

IBT:
2 cavs+tank killed 2 curie and a lite inf.
Utica: arena-> line inf.
Bonn: wiseman->line inf.
Hannover: toll house->school of scribe
Stuttgart: wiseman->toll-house
Dortmund: Husar->line inf.
Kiel: Ship-of-line->shrine
Centralia: colonist->courthouse

turn9:
killed 2 trencher and captured Barkhal with angkor wat and 63 gold with an worker, which is sacrificed
killed 2 tank, 2 cavs, 1 trencher^, 1 aztec curi
sikkim lies above Barkhal. We should try to take it for the encyclopedia

IBT:
lost a curi, kill a cav, jeeps pillaged our new land and stole some worker. That was much better then attacking our units
Berlin: guild hall->line inf.
Hoodoo: courthouse->arena
Leipzig: guild hall->temple
Königsberg: Arena->husar
Gomo: harbor (I've bought it)->monument

turn10:
destroyed a aztec caravel
killed 2 jeep, 1cav, 1 tank captured one worker (tibet)
killed 3 elefant, imp guard, horse archer, col. inf. (sioux)

There are still some units that could attack Sikkim, the next player has to decide. A trencher is heading for Sikkim.
I moved most of the worker back to our core. Railroads are available in some turns. A tile at Berlin still isn't mined.

I got it.

I'm going to try to capture and hold Sikkim, I think it has Encyclopedie.

We may lose on my turns since Total War is 1 tech from tank warfare. Leauge of Nations is only 400 shileds.

If we don't lose due to League of Nations, might I suggest landing on the tiny island and sacking Oma? Taking it over or razing it would reduce culture pressure on Gomo, I think.

Also: We have a bunch of single units in the tiles around Gomo. They're there to forstall a naval invasion, right?

0- (1525) Berlin to Factory

IBT- Look in Barkhal- See Angkor Wat

Sioux start Arc De Triomphe

1- Look via F7 - Sikkim has Slave Trade- Will want to prepare for unhappiness

IBT- Lose army to tank.

2- Start offensive on Sikkim

Leader Alert

Lose Imperial guard army- taking 1hp off a tank and promoting it.

RNG [pissed]

Our offensive force is decimated. army dead. Elite units. I’m not able to take Sikkim.

Build Line Infantry Army 1/2 filled

I expect Barkhal to fall.

This turn may have cost us the game.

Continue to bomb terrian with ships.

I hope the IBT turns out well

IBT- Lose only 3 units. Not too bad.

A Screen duing turn 2

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Picture_2.png

Yes, you can hardly take a city without all our cannons and it would be good if you move a camel (can fortify) and muskets with the offensive stack. Because of that (and this stupid jungle) I only could move very slowly forward.

Ya, use the cannon. They are better than in regular civ with 3 bombard IIRC.

Not suprised Tibet is a tough nut to crack. Tanks make it even tougher. Taking an holding Sikkem for a turn would be great if we can do it, but we can try to hole up and wait for more troops if the odds are poor. I would like to keep our beach head most of all especially if it near Sikkim.

I would switch most cities to troops. We can hold off on infrastructure for a while. Out of curiosity, can we mobilize? Do we want to? We can only get out of it by killing a civ, but if we need more troops to handle Tibet it might be worth it.

The biggest problem is, that in a stack our army wants to defend against the enemy. And a tank can finish it. We loose defensive units like nothing. A lite inf. can (with good RNG) hold against a cav but loose against a tank. Perhaps we should build more adventurer for defense, since they are cheap and have 4 defense like a lite inf.. That doesn't hurt that much. And they are fast to reach the front.

Ya, build Adventurers. Get enough str 4 units and maybe they won't attack.

BTW, how many techs are we from tanks? I am guessing that is our UU?

No, tanks aren't our UU. Panzers replace armor which comes at the beggining of the modern era.

We are 15 techs away from tanks.

3- Found New München.

Retreat from Sikkim with pillaging enemy terrian.

IBT- Start research on High Explosives (Rails)

4- Kill units near Barkhal

IBT- Lose New Frankfurt

Tanks near Barkhal

5- Destroy a tank

Units prepare to retake New Frankfurt

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Picture_3.png

The Save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Emp01_1550AD.SAV.zip)

Ok, I got it.

Preturn: Minor changes. Want to build more Adventurers for defense.

IBT: Not Much

1555 AD: Take back our city. Tanks are rough to take out. Attack Trencher near our city.

IBT: Trencher attacks and loses no HP to our Pike. 4 Tanks move up near us.

1560 AD: Pound Tanks with Artillery to get them to 1 or 2 HP (all of our Artillery is required)

1570 AD: Going to make an attempt for Sikkim. See picture.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/Emp1_AD1570.jpg

1575 AD: They take our our Cuirassier Army... This had better work - we are likely to lose more units.
We also have to abandon our town nearest to Sikkim.

1580 AD: We do capture the city and now have to hold it. Lose a few units taking the city.

IBT: It is attacked by some higher speed units but we keep the city. We get a bunch of techs.

Army built by some wonder. We can finally build an Adenturer Army! 8 squares of pillaging goodness.

1585 AD: Move everyone out of the city. Bombard armor now next to the city.

IBT: AI takes the city back.

1590 AD: Again we bombard and capture the city with a few losses.
Our stack is reinforced by adventurers. Love the 6 move of those.

IBT: Get some more Techs - Social Darwinism and Sanitation in the Industrial Era - we also have all Medieval and Ancient Techs except Free Artistry.
Goma flips again. No units lost.

Looking at the AI, we have now caught up with the Sioux and Aztec excepting Free Artistry.

1595 AD: Our stack is retreating from Sikkim

IBT: A Tank attacks and almost kills our Adventurer Army. Some other Adventurers are killed.

1600 AD: Reinforced our stack and put some units on boats to make sure they are rescued.

Notes:
The situation has some complexity - I debated playing some more turns to make things less complex when I ended.

1) Goma has flipped again and we need to take it back. This is getting annoying.
2) Our stack under the Adventurers has a good bit of Artillery and other units. The Adventurers can get to it and defend it (The 1 hp exposed Adventurer was a mis-move).
a) Continue to put valuable units on the boats.
b) Continue to retreat back to town. I think we can make it with only the loss of some Adventurers.
c) There is an army in the stack we want to save.
3) Our Adventurer army is not strong enough to avoid Tank attacks. It needs 3 adventurers or to stick to high terrain.
4) Pentagon requires refining as it needs oil The tech path is heading there. Size 3 armies will really help.
5) I started building an army for pillaging 2 or 3 adventurer armies pillaging Tibet can really help us big time. 3 armies is 24 pillaged squares per round. We can deny him resources and slow his tech with that. [b] I would have our capitol build a total of 2 armies and make them both Adventurer Armies. When we get refining and have 3 Adventurers, we should be able to pillage freely. No oil means no Tanks!
6) I let Sikkim survive. It would be nice if we can later take and keep it. We can go for tanks and avoid Philosophy. When we capture it we gain any tech Sioux or Aztec have researched.
7) Maybe the capitol should just stay on armies. Several 3 unit armies would help decimate Tibet. Just build them until we hit our army limit.
8) We aren't currently building Line Infantry. I have adventurers for defense and attack 7 Hussar for offense. Some

Summary:
The attack to grab Sikkim didn't go as well as I had hoped. Losses were higher than I intended including the army. Isolating the city worked to a certain extent, but some units tended to wander close and could attack when I took the city. Finally, we did not get as many techs as I had hoped. Tibet is way ahead.

My opinion on our best plan toward winning this game is to go for Refining for Pentagon (start a prebuild I think). Build at least 3 (2 more) Aventurer Armies to pillage Tibet bare and unable to build tanks (if sent out before Pentagon - stay in Mountains). Build other armies both for offense vs Tibet cities and also defense to protect cannon to bombard cities so normal units can attack. Raze Tibet and then clear the other continent.

I think another city can build armies. If we have our capitol building armies every 5 turns and Liepzig every 10, then that is 3 more armies above and beyond leaders (which could also rush small wonders). I believe we are currently one city short of 13 armies.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/Emp1_AD1600.jpg

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/14765/Emp01_AD1600.zip

I am going on a trip from Nov 18 (Friday) to Nov 30. I hope to be able to comment on the forum but I won't be able to play.

Keep on playing for some turns, Greebley.

The situation looks really awful. Again only one city on the other continent. :(. And the Enzy. gave us only that few techs. Unbelievable that Sioux and Aztecs weren't able to be more advanced, since we were able to reach this on our own without trading.

The pillaging of the ressources of the AI doesn't make sence. The land is hugh and we don't know the locations. And they can easily trade with another AI.

IMO the AI hasn't build a strong naval unit til now, so the ship-line isn't needed. After Gomo we should take Oma (funny name. In german that means grandma) like Elephantium (?) mentioned. Next Lhari.

Who is next. I can play on Saturday earliest.

I think the pillaging will work well. We can at least keep oil out of Tibets hands so no tanks. But the AI is bad about repairing lands. 3 advent armies pillaging will make a huge dent. We can pillage 8 squares per turn per Army! That is a lot of damage. Also speed 8 means we can catch workers. Thus we are destroying the workers they do have.

Think about it - in 10 turns we could pillage 240 squares. That is close to the whole continent. It takes the AI about 10 squares to repair - more if we grab the workers. I suspect we can keep them 80-90% pillaged with just those 3 armies and possibly more.

I could take it tonight, but I fear that the current situation requires more advanced skills than I possess.

@Greebley: You are right. If we catch a lot of their workers (and kill them) this will function.

@Elephantium: Take gomo back. There should "only" one tank be. With the most of our cannons and 1 or 2 husars that will function. Perhaps you can also take Oma then but keep enough cannons and cats/bombards in New Frankfurt and some good offensive units. Only making little steps is the best in this situation. I take it after you.

I think for the next 10 turns our goals should be:

Defend our one remaining town. The AI will pause within cannon range for the most part bombard units next to the town to 1 hp and kill them.

Bring back the units that went after Sikkim to our town. Boats are nearby so load the most valuable (army and cannon) onto boats so they are not at risk. I think there will be enough adventurers that we will make it home.

For Gomo, I would play several turns and when you feel you can spare 4 or 5 cannon (you have been red-lining all attackers and have cannon to spare) at least two offensive units, and 2 Adventurers or Line infantry then go for the city and take it back.

Head for refining tech.

Start a prebuild for pentagon. I would use one of our non-army towns - the one with the most shields probably.

Build Armies to be ready when Pentagon is built. I would make the first one an offensive one (cuirassier or Hussar) and then Adventurer Armies. Don't send them out yet (they need the third unit) but do bring them to our one city on the far continent.

I don't think we will be ready for an offensive other than possibly Gomo so it is mostly just sitting in the town and defending. Try to keep the losses low - units should end their turn in the city even if it means letting a redlined unit escape.

I think you should be able to handle it without much problem. Things will get interesting when we have Pentagon, but that won't be in the next 10 turns.

Got it. I played 5 turns tonight, and I plan to do another 5 tomorrow. So far, we're doing okay. I've been aggressive, taking some units down to Gomo in hopes of taking it. The attackers coming at New Frankfurt have yet to get through, so I'm feeling cautiously optimistic about this.



Begin: I'm a bit unhappy about -99gpt, but we DO need the techs. So be it.

2 Aztec Musketmen and 1 Man-at-arms die to our Adventurers on the other continent before our redlined lone adventurer dies. (3-1)

Minsk: Laborer->Courthouse
Konigsberg: Cannon->Arc d'Triomphe, prebuild for Pentagon
Bremen: Shrine->Adventurer

Turn 1 (1605 AD):

We evacuate everything except for the adventurers and catapults from the ruins near Sikkim.

We also bombard lots of Sioux. They're coming at us along the coast from the direction of Lhari.

IBT:

Scratch 5 Adventurers near Sikkim. No tank losses. (3-6)
Scratch 1 Line Infantry near Goma. They have two tanks there :scared: (3-7)

Frostvale: Courthouse->Barracks (more Adventurers after it finishes)
Utica: Hussar->Adventurer
Frankfurt: Hussar->Adventurer
Heidelberg: Colonist->Adventurer
Hannover riots. We put a philosopher on the job.
Dortmund: Adventurer->Adventurer
City of 1000 Smells: Adv->Adv

Turn 2 (1610 AD):

Lots of bombardment near New Frankfurt and rail building back home. I'm putting our navy to work shelling likely-looking targets.
Sci slider to 50%, The Corporation still in 1 turn.

New Frankfurt:
Line Infantry kills Aztec Eagle Knight (4-7)
We kill Aztec Man-at-arms and Arquebusier (6-7), promoting one Cuirassier to elite!


IBT:

Corporation->Refining (4 turns at -99gpt)
Moscow riots. Philosopher added.
Ta-tu: Shrine->Laborer
Leipzig riots. Philosopher to the rescue.
Odessa: Adv->Forge
New Berlin: Laborer->Adv
Leptis Magna: Adv->Adv
Salzburg: Line Inf->Adv
Hannover: Laborer->Adv

Turn 3 (1615 AD):

More bombarding. We kill a couple of Sioux Line Infantry. (8-7)

IBT:

Scratch one Adventurer near Goma (8-8)
Berlin: Army->Army
Carthage: Hussar->Adv
Utica: Adv->Adv
Hovd: Laborer->Laborer
Munchen: Hussar->Adv
Kiel: Laborer->Adv

Turn 4 (1620 AD):

Line Infantry > redlined Storm Trooper. (9-8)
Elite Cuirassier > redlined Trencher. (10-8)
Colonial Marine > Aztec Line Infantry (11-8)
New Nurnberg founded near our Fur colony. Making Courthouse.
Line Infantry > Aztec Line Inf x2 (13-8)
Cuirassier > Aztec Colonial Marine (14-8)

IBT:

We lose an Adventurer near Goma. (14-9)
Smolensk: Laborer->Courthouse
New Hamburg: Laborer->Courthouse
Frankfurt: Adv->Factory
Munchen riots. Time for a scientist.
Nurnberg: Adv->Guild Hall
Bonn: Line Inf->Adv
Dortmund: Adv->Hussar

Turn 5 (1625 AD):

We kill a Trencher and a tank near New Frankfurt, but we lose a Cuirassier in the process (17-10). I accidentally leave a Dragoon exposed.

PaGe- you're up.

No, Elephantium wants to play the rest of his turns. But I´m on deck.

I'm really enjoying this war. It's challenging, but I think we'll come through.

IBT:

We lose a Dragoon and two Adventurers (17-13). An Aztec cavalry of some sort dies against our army in New Frankfurt.

Utica: Adv->Factory
Sevastopol: Courthouse->Laborer
Regensburg: Cannon->Cannon
Hannover: Adv->Hussar
Bremen: Adv->Hussar

Turn 6 (1630 AD):

Lots of bombardments, no fighting.
Adjust sci slider to avoid running out of money.

IBT:

We lose 1 Adventurer near Gomo, and the wicked Sioux pillage our road from New Frankfurt to the mountains near Gomo. (17-14)
Kiev: Laborer->Laborer
Hamburg: Hussar->Hussar
Almarikh: Aqueduct->Courthouse
Tabriz: Laborer->Laborer
New Leipzig: Laborer->Laborer
Leptis Magna: Adv->Hussar
Salzburg: Adv->Adv
Riga: Laborer->Laborer
Brandenburg: Adv->Adv
Aztecs start building Arc d'Triomphe

Turn 7 (1635 AD):

Adjust sci slider again. 30%, Refining in 1 turn.
We kill an Aztec Colonial Marine (18-14)
Line Infantry > Elephant Rider (19-14)
Line Infantry > Adventurer (20-14)
Dragoon > Colonial Marine (21-14)
Cuirassier > Elephant Rider (22-14), new Leader promoted!! :goodjob:
Richtofen boards a ship to hurry production on a Wonder in our core...which one?

IBT:

We learn the secrets of Refining and start researching Steel!
...we have two possible sources of Oil in the tundra at the north end of our continent. I'm moving workers towards New Nurnberg as fast as I can, but it will take a while to get them there.
Munchen: Adv->Adv
Baruun-Urt: Laborer->Laborer

Turn 8 (1640 AD):

Cuirassier > Goma Tank! (23-14)
Halberdier > Goma Tank! (24-14)
Adventurers take out a Tank, but we lose a couple in the process, including an army (25-16)
...okay, I'm being rash. It's exciting to be making a credible assault vs. Goma, though. :wallbash:

IBT:

Lots of foes move towards New Frankfurt! There will be a LOT of fighting next turn!
Berlin: Army->Army
Munchen riots. Adjustments made.
Koln: Line Inf->Adv
Thingy: Laborer->Laborer
Kiel: Adv->Hussar

Turn 9 (1645 AD):

Dread horror! Tibet has Armor! :cry:
Hussar > Aztec Knight (by looks... 25-14)

IBT:

We lose one Line Infantry to Tibet's Armor. (25-15)
Carthage: Adv->Factory
Frostvale: Barracks->Adv
Freiburg: Adv->Adv
City of 1000 Smells riots. Adjustments made.

Turn 10 (1650 AD):

@ New Frankfurt:
Sioux Line Infantry have camped outside the city. Cannon bombardment plus Line Infantry of our own, a Colonial Marine, and a Dragoon put paid to them. We also get two elite promotions. (31-15)

@ Gomo (barracks destroyed in bombardment!):
Cuirassier > redlined Armor! x2 :spear: (33-15)
Line Infantry > redlined Armor! (34-15)
Hussar > redlined Armor! (35-15) and we take Goma!!! [party]
...building Barracks.

The way to Oma is ripe. I suggest bombarding for a turn or two with naval cannon to get an estimate of its defenses.

Also, I have a few ships sailing around different parts of the Tibetan continent, bombarding Tibetan lands. Every square shelled down to nothing is helpful!

Nice job. Okay PaGe, now you're up (At least I hope so)

The good thing about Tibet having armor- We didn't lose by Diplo.
The bad things about Tibet having armor: They have armor AND the UN can't be very far off.

I got it and had a look.

We can build 4 small wonders:
- national gallery in München (has the highest research)
- national monument in Berlin (actual the highest tax)
- the general staff (which will became obsolute very sone, but this city can then build armies)
- the Pentagon

I would prefer the pentagon. Else it will take much more then 10 turns til we get it. The prebuild could be switched to a factory. Königsberg then has 75 shields/turn.
I'll wait for comments for about 5 hours.

I'd lean towards National Monument - we're hurting for revenue. For Pentagon, we need Oil which will take 8-9 turns to hook up, anyway, won't it?

OTOH, the sooner we get 3-unit armies, the better. I don't think we can credibly start Operation Pillage Tibet using Adventurer armies until we have the Pentagon.

I'll interupt the work of peasant, who is railroading. Then it will take about 4 turns. Else the pentagon will take about 15 turns!

And a comment to Greebley. The adventurer has 4 moving point, but everything as a road, so we can pillage a maximum of 3 tiles per turn with an army. With the armor it again will be hard for them to survive, but seems to be the only chance for us to keep the game running.

No that isn't right. Pillaging doesn't cost any movement for armies. An adventurer ARMY can completely pillage any tile it moves onto. It moves 8 times so it can pillage 8 times (more if a square has rails since it can pillage the same square twice).

Once we have 3 unit adventurer armies, jump from mountains and hills. and find the oil. If we pillage it they have no more armor. Staying on Hills and mountains will probably be sufficient to not being attacked.

preturn:
Carthage: factory->town clock
Utica: factory->guild hall
frankfurt: factory->town clock
salzburg: adventurer->windmill
gomo: barack->monument
Regensburg: cannon->forge
nürnberg: guild hall->windmill
new königsberg: aquäduct->harbor (Harbor->port->major port is the better choice in coastal cities)
southern crab: aquäduct->port
new frankfurt: harbor->baracks (gomo has a harbor, so a barrack seems the better choice
bit of MM

a peasant stops rail-building to connect the oil
sent some worker back to berlin to mine a tundra-tile. This will give Berlin over 80 instead of 79 shields, which is better for a 400 shield army.

IBT:
one ? nearly killed our line-inf-army.
Utica:->courthouse (1R)
Frankfurt:->adventurer
Lüneburg:cannon->cannon
Stuttgart:Adven->toll-house
New Königsberg: Harbor->port
New Frankfurt: Barracks->harbor

turn1:
killed two sioux line-inf
bombard oma, seems to be guarded by 3 infantrists
München switched to courthouse (after that comes guild-hall and marketplace for tax)
Hannover switched to guild hall (tax!)

IBT:
nothing special
Leipzig: army->army
Utica: courthouse->
Königsberg: factory->husar
München: Courthouse->guild-hall
Salzburg: windmill->husar
North Coast: Laborer->laborer
Bonn: Adven->adven
Dortmund: Husar->Bazaar
Brandenburg: Adven->toll-house

turn2:
bombarding a bit, kill a sioux lite-inf
Frankfurt switched to toll-house
Leipzig switched to marketplace (our militia costs to much and Leipzig is the 3. in tax)

IBT:
a heavy art bombards our ship in the far north
Frankfurt: toll-house->bazaar
seventh seal: Laborer->laborer
nürnberg: windmill->bazaar
Emden: Barrack->adven

turn3:
silence

IBT:
tibetian zeppelins bombard us
the sioux visit new Frankfurt with an adven+elefant army
steel->electricity (way to cavs and rifleman)
Berlin: army->pentagon (rushed)
Horse Hoodoo: cannon->wiseman
Odessa: Forge->harbor
Heidelberg: adven->toll-house
Centralia: laborer->laborer
New München: harbor->wealth

turn4:
killed a tank
pentagon rushed
Darhan switched to colonist

IBT:
They all show the white feather.
Berlin: Pentagon->army
Carthage: Town clock->toll-house
TaTu revolts :(
Hovd: Laborer->wealth
Königsberg: Husar->bazaar
New Berlin: Adven->Husar
Leptis: Husar->toll-house
Hannover: Guild-hall->market
Brandenburg: Toll-house->bazaar
1000smells: adven->toll-house

turn5:
armies filled and on the way. 2 armies cover on the mountain near sikkim
first Lhasa will be pillaged to cut the trade abillity (hope it has no airport)
also I'll start the offense on Oma

IBT:
the AI seems a bit paniced :)
Leipzig: marketplace
Leptis revolts
Regensburg: Forge->adven
Bremen: Husar->toll house

turn6:
a lot of pillaging, 2 workers killed, Sioux has rifleman. I lowered science, to collect the money to buy a harbor in Oma when captured. A hugh stack landed at Oma.

IBT:
Carthage: toll-house->port
Kiev: laborer->wiseman
Königsberg: bazaar->academy
New Leipzig: Laborer->wiseman
Thingy: Laborer->wiseman
Dortmund: Bazaar->Husar
Oma got a armor (airport?)

turn7:
Pillaging armies
Everything fires on Oma. An line-inf- and an Husar-Army and an Elite cuir captured Oma. We only got 2 gold. Oma has barracks, harbor, courthouse, garrison, tib wiseman, aqäuduct and 7 resisters

IBT:
Tibet still bombards us with zeppelins
Horse Hoodoo: wiseman->Barracks
Hamburg: Husar->Husar
Darhan: Colonist->shrine
Königsberg: Academy->guild hall
Frankfurt: Bazaar->Husar
Leptis: Toll house->Bazaar
Salzburg: Husar->Husar
Stuttgart: toll house->port
Kiel: Husar->toll house
Tibet build the arc de triomphe in Iyekundo (=free garnisom in all cities)

turn8:
nothing special

IBT:
electricity->replaceable parts
Carthage: port->bazaar
Tatu: Laborer->barracks
Bonn: Adven->Husar

turn9:
found new köln
a sioux stack moves toward new frankfurt

IBT:
sioux came nearer, Tibet killed 2 adven-armies on mountains.
sioux and aztecs moved iron-clads! Sioux with a clipper. Be careful
Oma has deposed :argh: 2 armies, several cannons, husars are lost. I thought of razing it, but decided that it will be save enough.
Freiburg: Adven->adven
München:guild hall->Husar
Nürnberg: Bazaar->husar
Kiel: toll house->adven

turn10:
A new stack (cannons+adven+2Husar) landed at oma. Perhaps we should raze it next time.

Infos for the next player:
- The laborer should road the marsh tile towards Lhari, so that our cannons can move there.
- keep on pillaging. That really hurts them (see victory before and after it)
- perhaps the adven-army should heal a bit. The zeppelins and artillery bomb them, so that an armor can finish them. One of the loses was really annoying. The armor had only 1HP left after killing the army.
- Railroad the mined land arround berlin and Leipzig, so they can produce armies faster. I think we have only a chance with armies against the tanks.
- build new adven-armies. I don't know if we have found all their oil (2 resources). One can easily be cut by a ship, the other has a mountain near, on which the army can fortify.
- the AI hasn't build or started Edison yet. We can build it in 25 turns in Königsberg. Perhaps we should build it, having a look at Sikkim shortly before finishing it.

Nice work. I got it.

What's the order? Empiremaker, Greebley, PaGe, me? Or am I mixed up?

roaster:
Empiremaker
Greebley

The next slot depends on the time the save is posted. Til wednesday (included) I've time.

I'll be able to play pretty much anytime this week.

Also, I think we should consider a policy of raze-and-replace for captured Tibetan cities. We've taken heavy losses from Gomo and Oma flipping on us, and I'd like to avoid that in the future.

What do you guys think?

:yup: I started a settler already.

I'll start playing on Wednesday, and finish on Thurs. The turns will take a while. I'm going to research Espionage for spies.

I think its better to research for better units first. The landser (I think) is only 2 techs away.