Since there's hardly any rest for the wicked . . .

PH03: Happy Little Wonderland (TM)

This game is inspired by Rex's off-hand comment, many moons ago.

Basically, we must win by Culture, and all our cities must have at least ONE wonder in them.

Leader: Random (to be determined by dice-roll, not RNG)
Opponents: 6 Random (by dice-roll as well)
Difficulty: Monarch
Map: Continents
Size: Large
Speed: Normal
Victory Conditions: All enabled, but we must win by Cultural.

Variant Rules:
* Each city must have at least ONE World Wonder built in them

Roster:
01 Pholkhero
02 Imhotep
03 Zophos
04 Ozbenno
05 Rex

Alternates:
01 Robo Kai
02 Xtream

Preference given to those who sign up :D

Oh, and this game is being played with the Warlords Expansion Pack.

Wonders ? Building ? That's my second and third Civ name... The first one is loser of course, but who cares :D . I therefore request a ticket to Happy Little Wonderland™ !!!

Of course you're in ~ when i say you lurking on the board here, i was counting how long it would be until you posted.

a little more than 10 mins? not bad.

I'm new to most of the conditions in this game...

Played 2-3 Warlords games so far, none to completion yet (just testing the new stuff). Comfortable at Prince, haven't moved to Monarch yet. Mostly Epic/Fractal/Standard, with various civs, but tending to Financial. Have never gone for Cultural Victory, and this would be my first SG. :)

...but I'm interested, if you'll have me. I can only play evenings (Central Time, US), but I lurk the boards off and on most days.

If not, happy to lurk or take an alternate slot. It'll be a learning experience either way, and I've loved following your other SGs.

and I've loved following your other SGs.

Zophos ~ any fan of mine is certainly welcome to play ~ now, if you're a fan of Imhotep's, you can f*ck right the f*ck off ;) :)

you're in! i've editted the Roster.

I've now got Warlords and need an excuse to play it if you'll have me!

Can we use Rex's dice for the leader roll?

if you're a fan of Imhotep's, you can f*ck right the f*ck off

<python> (long pause) How shall we f*ck off, Master? </python>

you're in! i've editted the Roster.
Nifty! And I've edited...um...my .sig. (shows off shiny new SG entry)

Hmmmm, I'm torn between lack of time and playing a game whose name you STOLE FROM ME. Prick. You can't TM my saying!!!!

Now then, hmmmm...

Hey pholk! Please put me up as an alternate, thanks!

I've now got Warlords and need an excuse to play it if you'll have me!

Can we use Rex's dice for the leader roll?
You're in!

@ Rex, what's the site for your dirty dice? Are you going to sign up or what??

@ Robo ~ i have you listed as an alternate ~

will roll up a start as soon as I receive a dice location. If not by midnight est, then i'll use regular dice :(

ill join if i can

i can slot you as the other alternate, Xtream, if a 2nd person drops out ~

I would really like to join the roster, haven't had a cultural victory or builder game in a long time.

/e: too late :/

@ Karr ~ i was thinking of starting up an SG where a Religious-based diplo win would be the goal, with a heavy focus on Great Prophets w/Gandhi as a leader. interested in that??

Arm sufficiently twisted. And for the lazy researcher (you work at a university for the love of Ringo) my dice site is up your beagle (http://dmcconkey.com/dice/).

If it's warlords you can sign me up for that. I'm a religious nut anyway and I have time for another SG.

I WILL be lurking.:sheep:

Hey pholk, I modified an old leader picker script and made a civ random selector for WL.
BTW Even though I made sure it doesn't favor new leaders, it's still really rare not to get a new leader (4 out of 100 with 6 players).

http://www.geocities.com/mercenary_badger/leader_randomizer_1.0.htm

Welcome to all ~

@ Rex ~ that's a crazy roller. i've never actually used that before, despite its popularity in RNGod.

@ Robo ~ "page is currently diasbled"

i'm nuerotic about randomness anyway and prefer hand-rolled dice :crazyeye: strange, i know :)

So, the results are:
Catherine of Russia: Creative & Imperialistic

Our Opponents:
01 Kublai Khan
02 Cyrus
03 Brennus
04 Tokugawa
05 Hannibal
06 Churchill

Catherine was someone i had in mind, and got her on the 2nd roll (first was Gandhi :) of course it was). start coming in a bit.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m131/robo_mike/geocities_wtf.jpg

:mad: Now zipped, and using a more "trusted" service.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/73311/warlords_pickers.zip

Catherine is all right as a leader. Half production theatres is always nice in a cultural game. Of course industrious would have been nicer!

as i said, i rolled my own (still no pictures splashing :( ), and here's what a i got:
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/8779/civ4screenshot0014zx4.jpg
Remember, we're playing with only 6 opponents on a Large map so we should have plenty of room, i think. I'm just wondering how hard this variant is going to be ~ getting a wonder in every city makes me think we should prioritize the cheap ones ~ in my head i was thinking of having the usual 9 cities for the Cultural win and so needing 9 wonders overall.

Here's Catherine's stats from my corner (http://deviantminds.us/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30)
Creative:
* +2 culture per city
* dbl prod: Coliseum, Theater.
Coliseum: 120h; req’s Construction; +1 Happy, +1 Happy per 20% culture rate
Theatre: 50h; req’s Drama; +3 culture, +1 Happy per 10% culture rate, can turn 2
citizens into artists, +1 Happy from Dye;

Imperialistic:
* 100% increase in Great General emergence
* 50% prod bonus to Settlers
Settler: Str0, mvt2 100h; Can found a new city

Cossack (replaces Cavalry): Str15, mvt2, 120h, req: Military Tradition, Gunpowder, Horseback Riding, Horse; +50% vs. Cannon, +50% vs. Mounted Units, doesn't receive defensive bonuses, 30% withdrawal chance;

Research Institute (replaces Laboratory): 250h, req: Computers, Observatory; +1 unhealthy, +25% science, +50% spaceship production, +2 free Scientists, can turn 1 citizen into scientist

Starting Techs:
Hunting
Mining

Here is the start:
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/9228/civ4screenshot0015gn1.jpg

I moved the settler SW to the hut, one of the few times in civ i'm hoping for a map. We get gold instead.
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/2883/civ4screenshot0017ip5.jpg

As you can see, I settled on the spot, not seeing any reason to move with all the food and hills available. Nice production city. We maybe should aim for a Pyramids here to get some GE points to pop a wonder or maybe even 2 with GEs in 1 or 2 cities.

Here's Moscow:
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/2260/civ4screenshot0018fk2.jpg

and the scouts immediate area:
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/4038/civ4screenshot0019mp1.jpg

I started researching Agriculture and building a worker, but we should discuss opening moves first if we can. Should we scrap that and go for Masonry (and maybe Judaism) and then onto Code of Laws?

Let's all discuss before i play 20 turns (then we'll go down to 10 each, i think).

All lurkers and alternates:
Signing up for PH04 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=4530115#post4530115)

I think Agriculture is OK as a starter to get the Rice farmed but if we're trying for Pyramids we need to get Masonry after that methinks. Bronze Working after that as there are plenty of forest for chopping (to me a forest on a river is a free chop as you can always replace later with a watermill) and then Pottery.

Is it worth sneaking in a warrior before worker, for barb protection and to let Moscow reach size 2 before we start worker.

So we're thinking Pyramids for first wonder, what will we aim for for city 2?

In general for cultural win these wonders strike me as great: Pyramids and Statue of Liberty (if we research that far),

These as good: University of Sankore, Colossus (if we have coasts), Great Library, Sistine Chapel and any that give GA points.

It's definitely tougher to get wonders on Monarch, but it will be easier than usual because we have no Industrious opponent. Creative and Imperialistic sure are great traits for this map, we should be able to grab a lot of land. I would have prefered Stalin of course, but it does not matter that much. I've played a lot of games with Churchill, who isn't Industrious either, and I got some of the early wonders too. It all depends on your Capital, and that spot looks altogether tempting.

Well, if we are heading for Great Engineer points - which is a natural move considering our variant - we should not aim for the Pyramids head first. I think we should bend all our initiative first on the Gret Wall. Why ? Well, there are several reasons:


It is 200 hammers cheaper than the Pyramids
It solves the Barb Problem forever - remember we are playing a Large Map !
It gives +2 Great Engineer Points as well as the Pyramids
It looks awfully cool :D


So Masonry should be a research priority. The earlier we get it the better. My Research Path would then be Bronze Working > Masonry > Agriculture >The Wheel/Archery. We don't need the Rice immediately because those Flood Plains give enough food to grow the City and work the Hills. But we have to see if there is Bronze in one of those Hills, and that's very likely because they are Plains Hills (I never saw a Metal pop up in a Grassland Hill). It's not so much for defensive purposes but for the production bonus it gives - +3 hammers are something. We should use the headstart we have with Mining.

If we do it correctly and get the Great Wall our first Great Engineer will be able to rush one of the earlier wonders, if we are lucky, we can rush the Pyramids in our second city with it. But we'll take what we get...

Imhotep

Good point on the GE points. Hanging Gardens is another GE wonder that the AI usually leave off.

Does Great Wall expand as your boundaries or is it "set"?

Good point on the GE points. Hanging Gardens is another GE wonder that the AI usually leave off.

Does Great Wall expand as your boundaries or is it "set"?

The Wall itself does not expand. But the effect applies to all your cultural borders, that means that a barb can never enter your borders - whether within the visible Great Wall or not - on the continent you've built it.

start coming in a bit.

Okay, I did. Can I stop now?

Okay, I did. Can I stop now?

Give yourself a nudge out of the door. Sign up ! :)

Obviously some American coloquilisms (http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Acoming&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official), they don't teach in German primary schools.

Pholk...from the screenies, it looks like we have only one hill in the fat X of Moscow (2E from the city). Several other hills E and S , but they'll fall outside the fat X. Please confirm, since I don't have a save to look at yet.

On the tech question, I'd say we want to have Ag (96 beakers/10 turns), Masonry (128 beakers/11 turns) and Bronze (193 beakers/18 turns) as our first three, in SOME order (and please check my math on the research times - should be 10/turn for Ag and 12/turn for the other two, since we have the pre-reqs).

The extra hammers from a copper mine would be really handy, and I think we should have all three techs before we try for our first Wonder. So I'd say Bronze, then Ag, then Masonry and head for the GW.

The next question is...do we get a settler out before we try for the Wall?

Zophos is right ~ there IS only one hill in the BFC ~ more likely this is our commerce/super-sci city.

However, i think Great Wall may be a great investment for the time being. ANY grass forest, to me, is a free chop, so we might be able to chop it out quick. Perhaps crank out a quick warrior and then onto the worker so that we can use him immediately to chop. Go for another warrior to get to Pop2 and then build a quick settler w/our Imperialistic trait. Then, chop out the Great Wall. Builds: Warrior>Worker>Warrior>Settler

Tech-wise:
Agr>BW>Masonry>Great Wall ~ my rationale: Agr to farm the rice and flood plains for now. BW for the chopping AND slavery civic, and then Masonry for the Great Wall. We could then try and settle @ copper if there's none at the city (though I think there will be).

Tech-wise:
Agr>BW>Masonry>Great Wall ~ my rationale: Agr to farm the rice and flood plains for now. BW for the chopping AND slavery civic, and then Masonry for the Great Wall. We could then try and settle @ copper if there's none at the city (though I think there will be).
I was rethinking techs on the drive to work (and after some caffeine), and I agree with the above. The worker won't have anything to do if we go BW first. With Ag first, he can start farming the rice and maybe some FPs, and BW would hit w/in a dozen turns or so after the worker shows up.

On a side note, my math must be off somewhere - the screenies show Ag in 9, not 10.

Here's some cheaper wonders we may want to aim for in our cities.

Great Lighthouse, Hanging Gardens, Oracle, Stonehenge, Versailles, Taj Mahal, the Kremlin ~ that's 7, not counting the Great Wall at the capital ~ anybody else have any ideas for some wonders for our Wonderland

Full list of WW, sorted by cost (at Normal speed):

Stonehenge 120
Oracle 150
Great Lighthouse 200
Colossus 250
Great Wall 250
Hanging Gardens 300
Great Library 350
Parthenon 400
Temple of Artemis 400
Pyramids 450
Angkor Wat 500
Chichen Itza 500
Hagia Sophia 550
Spiral Minaret 550
University of Sankor 550
Sistine Chapel 600
Notre Dame 650
Taj Mahal 700
Broadway 800
Rock & Roll 800
Versailles 800
Hollywood 1000
Kremlin 1000
United Nations 1000
Eiffel Tower 1250
Pentagon 1250
Statue of Liberty 1500
Three Gorges Dam 1750
Space Elevator 2000

(I've been playing Epic too long...everything looks cheap. :) BTW - all numbers are taken from the charts in this post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4419754&postcount=158).)

Colossus is the cheapest one missing from Pholk's list, but I don't see coastal cities looming ATM. Parthenon and ToA are cheap(ish), but I doubt we'll get cities out in time to nab 'em (given that there are higher-priority Wonders with the same techs). We might consider dropping the Pyramids in our second or third city, if we can pop a GE in time from the Wall. Or would it be better to put it in the capitol to generate future GEs?

Also note that shrines are Wonders, too, so we might get one or two that way. With a cultural victory, there's a real attraction to founding (at the least having)2-3 religions, and that makes things like Sankore and the Minaret look better, too.

my thinking re: Colossus was that we should build the cheaper Great Lighthouse in any coastal city we get sometime soon.

as i said, i'm thinking we should at least go for 3 religions (w/2 being our-founded CoL and Taoism since we'll be heading up the top of the tech tree) hopefully an "old" religion (BudHinJud) will spread to make up the 3rd religion ~ and so we'll need 9 cities and 9 wonders ~ 9 seems like a bunch, no? we could save the Broadway, RnR and....ahh...the other multiplying late-wonder in our Big 3 cities and but the other wonders in lesser cities.

We probably want to stop teching and ramp up the cultural slider after Liberalism (or maybe Democracy) so every wonder after Taj Mahal (except maybe Statue of Liberty) we may never get to.

If we go for Stonehenge in our second city, the GP points can be used to pop a religion maybe. We should try for founding 3 (as above plus Christianity/Islam) and hope another 1-2 work their way to us.

The GE points from Great Wall can then be used to rush a wonder in third city.

There is possibly sea at the bottom of the last screenie in pholk's report, this could produce a coastal town for Collossus/Great Lighthouse for fourth.

We virtually won this game already, how easy was that :lol: .

More seriously, we should try to keep a GP farm with pure Engineer points until we get all our wonders done and then switch to Artists.

Alright, i set work to those rice, build a worker and direct the village wise men to work on the secrets of Agriculture. I send our noble scout in what i shall call a "counter-clockwisest' motion around our fair city.

He sent back pictures quite soon ~ Our Southwest 3840 bc:
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/2672/civ4screenshot0017ew3.jpg

Continuing around, busiting that fog, in 3760 bc, we popped a map from a Goody Hut:
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/7514/civ4screenshot0018pw4.jpg

3680 bc:
Ahh, we end up next to a Lion :(
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/294/civ4screenshot0019am5.jpg

Hah, he moved away on the IT. Sweet!

As you can see, on the next turn we discovered Agriculture, just in time for a worker in a few turns. I start our wise men on the secrets of Bronze Working. I'm hoping we have some in our BFC.

3400 bc:
Our worker is done, and I start on a warrior to let the city finally grow.
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/2135/civ4screenshot0020dm4.jpg

Meanwhile, the worker starts to farm that rice.

3360 bc:
Just north of the city, I pop another GH for us:
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/695/civ4screenshot0021wn9.jpg
148g total. We have a nice little nest-egg to start our empire with :D

3240 bc:
Oooo ~ i popped a hut here and grabbed xp ~
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/9972/civ4screenshot0023mt0.jpg

I took Wood I & II on the following turn and moved toward that hut.

3200 bc:
And here's our lands:
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/8124/civ4screenshot0024nn3.jpg

Certainly DOES seem to encourage settling fewer, STRONGER cities.

Bronze working will be done in 4, and our warrior in a bit more. I think we should aim for a settler when possible. Our worker is just SE of Moscow on the Desert Flood Plain.

I was thinking of farming that tile, but building a mine on the plains hill may be better. Imhotep can decide. Also, we could use our first GE for a Pyramid in Moscow :)

I think a nice GE-focused GPF might be nice in our capital for now.

Roster:
01 Pholkhero >> just played
02 Imhotep >> UP NOW
03 Zophos >> on deck
04 Ozbenno >>
05 Rex >>

Alternates:
01 Robo Kai
02 Xtream

Okay, Imhotep's up for 15 turns, and Zophos and Ozbenno will do 15 as well. Rex can finish the rotation with 10.

Timmy won't be able to pick this up, Pholk. He does some sort of law school thing on weekends that, I think, really means he prefers his girlfriend to us. You know how those germans get. Too shy to tell you that they're gettin' some, bugger the **** off.

You might want to change up the rotation.

you're right, of course, i plum forgot:

Pholkhero > just played
Zophos > UP NOW
Ozbenno > on deck
Imhotep >
Rex >

Got it, but it's late. Will play sometime tomorrow, probably evening.

In the meantime, if anyone has a link to the Warlords-compatible autologger, please let me know. I didn't find it when I looked earlier, and I've run most of my SP games under the HOF mod (to get the advisors, etc. w/o having to go do the Python surgery myself). If not, no prob...I'll just take notes on paper to transcribe later. And if the vanilla version works in Warlords, too...well, just slap me and tell me I'm lazy.

Now...let's go see if I can avoid screwing this up. ;) Please continue to discuss next steps. I'll check in with the thread before I play.

The site north of Moscow with the gold/cows/river looks like a nice production city for first settler.

i don't think we should bother with Stonehenge as we have lots of Calendar resources. Something else could be the wonder of our 2nd city ~ there's no rule that it has to be built ASAP, so we have time to plan.

Perhaps a quick run through Pottery on the way to Writing, Alphabet and Code of Laws. Or should we try to use the Oracle sling to grab CoL and the GP to get Theology?? what say you'se guys?

If we want to build Colossus, Oracle Sling can be used for Metal Casing but CoL might be better if no-one has it yet (as we want to found religions).

yes, i'd like to grab 3 religions for ourselves if we could so that we aren't dependent on the outside world for victory.

Ok...I had a chance to start my set earlier than expected, but I haven't finished yet. I've played 7.5 turns, and I have to put it aside until tonight (kids will wake up soon). It's good timing, though, because I could use input on a couple of things before I finish my 15. I'll be playing again in...about 6-7 hours from this post.

Turns so far to follow in next post. Teaser: the Goody Hut Gods have been kind. :cool:

Inherited Turn - 3200 BC
Not much to check on. Everything looks good. Press Enter.

Turn 1 - 3160 BC
Moscow grows to size 2. Leave the governor's tile assignment (2/1/0 riverside forest) to build warriors faster. I could MM to the FP and grow in 4 turns rather than 6, and pick up a commerce...but I want to have a couple of warriors before we build the settler, and with this setup I should be able to finish the second Warrior about the time we grow to size 3.

Also, since we get a bonus to hammers for building settlers, but not to food, I send the worker to the hill for a mine. Again, ought to be able to finish it right around the time I start the settler.

Oh..and that Goody Hut that Pholk was headed toward? Turns out the natives knew a thing or two that we didn't.
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/9297/civ4screenshot0002tl3.jpg (http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0002tl3.jpg)

Turn 2 - 3120 BC
Worker starts a mine - due in 4 turns. Just in time for our settler.
Send the scout NE to poke around. The fog S of Moscow will get busted in 3 turns when our borders pop again.

Turn 3 - 3080 BC
'Sploring NE. Yawn.

Turn 4 - 3040 BC
BW is in.

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/7604/civ4screenshot0003yi2.jpg (http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0003yi2.jpg)

And we have copper nearby, but not in the BFC:

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/4659/civ4screenshot0004br9.jpg (http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0004br9.jpg)

Still looks like someplace up north looks good for our second city. Can't get copper, gold and cows in one BFC, so we'll have to plan something. Have a few turns to think about it, though, so wait and see. Scout should check the area around the copper, especially the fog to the east.

Start on Masonry, due in 9.

Warrior finishes at Moscow, start another (due in 5). Settler now would take 13, but if we grow to size 3 first (3 turns), we can get it to about 8-9. And we'll want a second warrior for an escort anyway. Animals have started to appear (there's a wolf wandering S of Moscow).

Send the Warrior N to bust fog towards the copper. Second one will stay home.

For those who were looking at the big map closely, yes, there was another Goody Hut next to our Scout. And he's headed north anyway, so it's on the way. These natives are even smarter than the last ones:
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/8323/civ4screenshot0005kw3.jpg (http://img53.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0005kw3.jpg)

Could it be? Really?

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/5886/civ4screenshot0006ck1.jpg (http://img53.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0006ck1.jpg)

Yep. Not often a hut can put ya in a new Era. :cool:

Now comes my minor :smoke: moment...I didn't stop to see where the Iron is at this point. You'll get to see in a turn or two.

Turn 5 - 3000 BC
Borders pop again. Nothing terribly interesting revealed. More exploring and dodging animals.

Turn 6 - 2960 BC
Mine is done and now worked. Warrior in 2 and growth to size 3 in 2. It's like I planned it. :mischief:

Send the Worker to the FP to start a farm (7 turns)

Scout is playing footsie with a Lion, and finds more cows and a banana up near the Copper/Gold. There's a tile that catches all 4 resources in the BFC. We'd lose a forest, but it looks pretty strong. No screenie (sorry), but you'll see it in the maps at the end of this post.

Turn 7 - 2920 BC
More scouting. Heavy jungle revealed up by the copper/gold area.

Current turn and discussion in next post.

Turn 8 - 2880 BC
Warrior #2 done. Moscow grows to size 3. Settler started, due in 8.

And the governor is an idiot. Here's what it did for tile assignments.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/6292/civ4screenshot0010ki8.jpg (http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0010ki8.jpg)

It doesn't seem to understand that a 1/2/0 tile is better for building Settlers than a 2/1/0 tile (since we get 50% bonus hammers for Settlers). So I MM it. Still due in 8, but we'll get more overflow.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/7526/civ4screenshot0009kg6.jpg (http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0009kg6.jpg)

We should keep this in mind for future Settler builds.

So...I've stopped here to pose a couple questions to the group:

Question 1 - the Settler
Which site should we send our Settler to, in 8 turns? On the maps below, you'll see that we have Copper as noted, plus way off to the SW. Iron is west of Moscow near the wheat, and also in the SW.

SW of Moscow:

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/3253/civ4screenshot0011gc8.jpg (http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0011gc8.jpg)

W of Moscow:

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/3928/civ4screenshot0012qe3.jpg (http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0012qe3.jpg)

N of Moscow:

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/7684/civ4screenshot0013sp2.jpg (http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0013sp2.jpg)

Overview:

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/4760/civ4screenshot0014yq5.jpg (http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0014yq5.jpg)

Question 2 - Techs
When Masonry comes in 5 turns, what next?

I was thinking Wheel and Pottery. We need wheel to hook up the iron or copper, because neither is on a river. Pottery will get commerce going, plus we want a granary in Moscow for the whipping we're going to do.

But with free Mysticism and our early Masonry, we could try for Monotheism to found Judaism. Or perhaps the Oracle, though I suspect we'll miss it unless we abandon the Great Wall.

Here's the current tech outlook:

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/7056/ph032880bctechcompositent8.jpg (http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ph032880bctechcompositent8.jpg)

Please discuss. I'll finish my set tonight, with or without input.

Good turns so far! I would recommend revolting to Slavery and whipping that settler in a turn or two :whipped: as far as city site, i'm not entirely convinced of any ONE site as of yet, but am leaning towards the copper/cows/gold site to the north. access to water for irragion and a good production for now ~ maybe turn it into a Watermill Factory town later?? i've never experimented w/that strategy but it would be good for wonder-building if we need to.

I say let's try for Judaism ~ if it gets disovered, we swap out to pottery>writing>alph>col

Agree with pholk on city placement. Also agree on research path. Are we definately going for Great Wall first or Oracle? I'd say Oracle.

Also there looks like a nice city site down south-west with stone plus other nice stuff.

Before I ever read Pholk's response, I thought to myself "copper-cows-gold on a river north of Moscow". Also, down southwest has a gold-copper-silk site on a river that will be pretty awesome.

Oh, and Zophos, I don't know about an autologger for Warlords, but I wrote a note-taker (http://deviantminds.us/forum/viewtopic.php?p=435#435) that works fine in Warlords.

Use it just like the custom note command in Eotinb's autologger to write your notes in-game. Warning though, it only puts down what you write. No turn number, battle stats, etc. unless you write them. Really, it's just like using notepad, but with out needing to Alt+tab out of the game.

Ok...here's the rest of the set:

Turn 8 - 2880 BC (continued)
As the scout continues into the jungle, he meets the first of the neighbors:

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/6500/civ4screenshot0001mh2.jpg (http://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0001mh2.jpg)

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/7310/civ4screenshot0000wn9.jpg (http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0000wn9.jpg)

We make nice and press on to the north.

Back home, I sentry both warriors in place. One is busting fog on a wooded hill overlooking the second city site. The other is in Moscow.

Oh, and I do revolt to Slavery. There wasn't a reason before now, but whipping the Settler looks like a good idea. Unfortunately, we will only be able to whip for one pop, so it'll be a few turns yet. (Need to get 55 hammers invested)

Turn 9 - 2840 BC
Out of Anarchy. More exploring in the jungle. Yawn.

Turn 10 - 2800BC
More exploring.

Turn 11 - 2760 BC
More exploring. Found some elephants in the jungle. There are a couple of good potential sites for a city up there, if Hannibal doesn't claim the area first. Could get 'phant/silk/banana or 2x'phant/dye/banana on the same river that runs past our copper site. Check the maps at the end of the post.

Turn 12 - 2720 BC
Um...more exploring. Worker finishes the FP farm this turn. MMing Moscow to use it instead of the forest keeps the same production (+12 hammers toward the settler), but picks up +1 commerce, so I do it.

Turn 13 - 2680 BC
Bah. Two hammers short of whipping the Settler. :mad:

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9312/civ4screenshot0002jk7.jpg (http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0002jk7.jpg)

Send the worker to chop forest S of Moscow. On reflection, I probably should have done this before building the FP farm - with a chop and a whip, I could have had the settler 2-3 turns earlier than just with the whip. My :smoke:. Next player can decide what to put the chopped hammers into.

In other news, our scout located Carthaginian borders just north of the 'phants. Again, see the maps at the end.

IBT

Another neighbor comes to visit:

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/8131/civ4screenshot0004em1.jpg (http://img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0004em1.jpg)

His scout appeared on the NW edge of Moscow's borders, so best guess ATM is that he's somewhere west of Hannibal.

Turn 14 - 2640 BC
Masory is in. Start Polytheism, due in 11 turns, looking towards Monotheism and our first religion. For the record, here are our other choices:

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/8130/civ4screenshot0006fg7.jpg (http://img83.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0006fg7.jpg)

Finally, we can whip the Settler in Moscow for 1 pop. Only saves 3 turns, but we can regrow in 4 if we work both farms, and we keep all the commerce. So...do it.

Ah...I also see that Hannibal has dropped a settlement in 'phantland IBT.

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/8591/civ4screenshot0007to7.jpg (http://img83.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0007to7.jpg)

Turn 15 - 2600 BC
Settler completes with 10 overflow. Start the Great Wall, due in...238 turns. :eek:

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/4889/civ4screenshot0008zp9.jpg (http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0008zp9.jpg)

Of course, that will change once we grow back to size 3 (4 turns). Next player can veto - no hammers are invested yet. For instance, we might want a second scout to head W/NW, or another worker to hook up copper, etc. while the first chops in the Wall. And remember that there's a chop coming in a turn or two.

And finally...the scout finds coast up north. Looks like Hannibal has a beach house.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/7679/civ4screenshot0009om0.jpg (http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0009om0.jpg)

Overview maps and save in next post.

The northern jungles, 'phantland, and Carthaginian borders:

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/143/civ4screenshot0017bo5.jpg (http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0017bo5.jpg)

Moscow and the western/southwestern known territory:

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/4045/civ4screenshot0018sw3.jpg (http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0018sw3.jpg)

Note that there are a lot of resource bubbles missing at the bottom of that last screenshot (even though the interface is minimized so it wouldn't cover 'em). Stone, Copper, Gold, Iron, and (I think) Deer, plus a Goody Hut off in the far southwest, if it hasn't been claimed yet.

Checking the Demo screen, we look pretty sad ATM:

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/1784/civ4screenshot0016uy5.jpg (http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0016uy5.jpg)

However, we stack up OK against our known neighbors:

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/4863/civ4screenshot0014zf9.jpg (http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0014zf9.jpg)
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/3951/civ4screenshot0015ka3.jpg (http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0015ka3.jpg)

And...last but not least: THE SAVE (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/89877/PH03_BC-2600.CivWarlordsSave)

Got it! Up for 15, report soon.

Great Wall in 238, I love it :lol: .

The chop finishes and I order up another. Great Wall count now down due to 216.

I meet this fellow.

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1056/civ4screenshot0000vd0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The AI agrees, this is a good spot for a city.

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/6071/civ4screenshot0001tp2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Will let it grow to 2 and then get a worker/settler combo going. Its connected to Moscow via the river so we don't have to road the copper very far.

Goody hut alert.

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/4307/civ4screenshot0003yb8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

False alarm people, please stand down.

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7765/civ4screenshot0004ej5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Second chop done. Great Wall down to 37 turns. One more chop and I'm off to hook up some copper.

The Scout exploring in the east discovers another nice city location.

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/8035/civ4screenshot0005qb3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Polytheism comes in and I'm in a dilema regarding Wheel, Animal Husbandry or Monotheism. Go for Mono, as we want to found the religion and can worker the gold and copper before cows at St Petersburg.

Last of the chops, we're down to 20 turns.

I leave whoever comes up next this dilema.

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6748/civ4screenshot0006ur8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Moscow, Great Wall in 12
St Petersburg, Worker in 10

I'd get a settler or two started after these builds.

Copper mined in 2

Monotheism in 5

I would suggest Wheel, Animal Husbandry, Pottery after this.

The Save

138451

good turns both of you ~ it'll be nice if do in fact get the Great Wall, and I definitely hope to use the first GE for a Pyramids, too, in Moscow and start cranking out Engineers to use in our cities :D from reading other parts of the forum, apparently, this may be an exploit and i'd like to see for myself...plus we could use the GEs :nod:

Let's see...roster, roster, who's got the roster??

Pholkhero >
Zophos >
Ozbenno > just played
Imhotep > UP NOW for 15
Rex > on deck

Imhotep should be back soon, so this should be fine ~

Good turns, Oz.

@Pholk: I don't consider the GW->GE->Pyramids to be an exploit, any more than Stonehenge->GP->CoL/CS is an exploit. It doesn't depend on a game bug or logical flaw in the AI (unlike, say, gifting gold to an AI so you can shaft it on a resource trade), and you still have a decent risk of losing the Pyramids to another civ.

Granted...we know in our game that none of the opponents are Industrious, but someone might have stone hooked up. It's going to take us, what, 30+ turns to finish the Wall, and another 50 to cook the GE? An AI with stone and, say, 8 hammers in a city could build the Pyramids the old-fashioned way in less than thirty turns.

So...as I'm thinking about this, can we accelerate the GE at all? If we take Priesthood as our next tech after Monotheism, we could try to build the Oracle in our second city, grab Metal Casting so we can put up a forge and run an engineer in Moscow. We will want an engineer eventually anyway, since GEs are unusually valuable to us in this variant.

Of course, we'd be postponing Wheel->Pottery->Writing and AH even longer, but it's all about the Wonders, right? :D

Got it, will play today in the evening (Monday that is).

I was so drawn to this game that I played my 15 yesterday night at 2 p.m. I then went to bed because I was too tired to compose a report - but it was not exhaustion due to excessive girl friend use ;) :D ... So, this is what happened. I have made some decisions during my turns. You better like 'em, or I see myself as a candidate for the traditional stoning *already has visions of pholk, rex and Ozbenno as PFJ brothers with small heaps of stones ready*.

Only thing I did on the Preflight was MMing Moscow for hammers. In fact this did cut off one turn from the Great Wall, Moscow was at it's happiness cap anyway. Press Enter.

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3522/1km0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Our Scout wanders around in the nice and cozy countryside. Meet Barbara, the amazon warrior !

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4343/3ug7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And this is Chuck. He was left alive until after the love fest, those amazon ladies always love to have cruspy meat off the bone as last part of the merrymaking.

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/2310/4vj4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Chuck and Barbara obviously have not heard yet from something like faith or other difficult metaphysical questions. They just have fun ! The inhabitants of proud St. Petersburg on the contrary...

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4416/5lv0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

A good ol' friend of Chuck and Barbara lives right next to our doorstep. "Hello Mr. Khan, this is Cathy speaking. I'd bet you never saw such a cultured lady in all your sad life...ready for some love the amazon-style ?"

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/9496/6fd9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

continues...

In fact Barbara is so attractive (even with just half of the female attributes) that our Scout is drawn away from duty and gives in the pleasures of lust and sin. Alas that he has not thought of the consequences before...

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/2158/7yi5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Well, at least he had fun one time in his life. Meanwhile the citizens of St. Pete have found away to dig Bronze Ore ut of the ground and will try to do the same with the Gold. The only problems they could not solve is to bring the metals to town...

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/4606/8dc2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The tale of Boris the Scout who got a nice tête-à-tête with Barbara and afterwards was famous for his tasty ribs scared the citizens of Moscow so much that they piled all the stones that they could find on a long ridge. This is how they had it in mind:

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/1002/11zp1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Those amazons will never come inside now ! Said the men in Moscow and sighed, looking at their women... And Barbara sits on a hill, looks into the wide regions around Moscow and has a tear in her eye, thinking of all the joy Boris brought her. And ever her stomach grumbles...

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/9805/15ez7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Some wide view shots

The West

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/7852/13sn6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The North:

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1751/14xi6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Our worthy possessions:

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/1871/16fk4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I've made a sign where I suggest our 3rd city. It is a great spot. It gets Wheat and Iron plus 5 hills with fresh water and a lot of forested grass land (yummy chop-chop !). This should be a production powerhouse once fully developed.

The decisions I made:


I started the Stonehenge in St. Petersburg after investing 2 turns into a Settler. I didn't want to try a shot at it at first, but then I changed my mind. I already chopped a forest, another worker is ready for another chop. It is down to 9 turns, Animal Husbandry comes in 1 turn. The Worker already stands on the Cows. Pasture it, and I think we will very likely get the 'Henge. If not, it's not a big loss. We will get cash to fund our expansion then. After all I thought we want Great Priests too, at least one or two for the Shrines. With v1.61 obsolete Wonders retain their GPP value, so there is no loss in a fast Calendar research.
I did not revolt to Judaism and Organized Religion yet. This had two reasons. 1) We were right into the Great Wall build and I didn't want to lose the Wonder with the Anarchy. 2) One of our neighbors is Buddhist, I didn't want to piss him off so early. Although converting would have advantages - 2 more happiness points with Temples and increased building production. Discuss !
I went Priesthood > Animal Husbandry, but didn't start the Oracle yet. We can do it in Moscow with 15 turns on it after the Settler finishes in 2. I thought it was safe to delay it - we are relatively early with the tech, and I didn't want to delay Animal Husbandry. Next Player should go The Wheel and Oracle => Metal Casting or Writing > CoL > Oracle => CS.


Imhotep

good playing, Imhotep!! Good deal on the Great Wall ~ that's the first time i've built it.

i'm also real surprised we get Judaism as well.

We could build the Oracle at your suggested Novgorad ~ chop those forest grass and take CoL with it for our second religion ~ i don't think we can afford to wait for CS on Monarch.

We need to start spreading our religion and building the temples. If there's 3 ways to earn culture (wonders, artists/ga, and commerce), then i think we're going to need all three, but in either case, at this point, we need to start focusing on the top of the tech tree.

Pholkhero > on deck
Zophos >
Ozbenno >
Imhotep > just played
Rex > UP NOW

Good turns, Imhotep! However, I did see a copy of the following memo circulating in Moscow after Boris' final report was received:

MEMORANDUM

FROM: CINCLAND

TO: All Scouting Units

RE: Changes to Recommended First Contact Script

Based on reports from scouts in the western portion of the Empire, Central Command has made the following changes to the Recommended First Contact Script (Form 10596/A2), to be used when encountering an unknown party on scouting missions:

Strike the words "Tasty Ribs" from paragraph 14, sentence 2. A misinterpretation of this phrase led to tragedy in a recent encounter. Instead, offer "Tasty BEEF Ribs". Central Supply will make beef ribs available to all scouting parties within the next few years.
Add the following text in bold print at the bottom of the form: Under no circumstances should any member of a scouting party attempt a romantic liason with members of an unknown party. (This means YOU, Kirk!)

Please update your scripts immediately.

CINCLAND
;)

Glad we got Judaism. :goodjob: We should definitely try for the Oracle, and take either CoL (for another religion), or Metal Casting (for forges/Engineer points). I'd suggest starting it ASAP, though. I get nervous about AIs taking it as I close in on 1000BC, but this crowd of opponents might not care as much. Before building the Oracle, it is probably worth revolting to OR and Judaism for the 25% hammer bonus.

As for WHERE to build it...I'm torn. It would be nice to get the 'henge in St. Pete, and the Oracle in Novgorod, but I'm worried about how fast we can build the Oracle in a brand-new city (maybe chopping like mad will still get it - thoughts?). If we miss Stonehenge, definitely build the Oracle in St. Pete. I would NOT put it in Moscow, even though it'll build fast, to avoid polluting the GPP pool there - we really want to get a town that can pump out at least a couple of GEs.

And I agree on tech path: Wheel->Pottery->Writing. Note that Writing is REQUIRED for Code of Laws, so we really have to get a move on if we want CoL as our Oracle tech. If not, Metal Casting is a very good choice, and will allow us to accelerate our GE production.

I imagine we should send the settler over with a couple workers and have the city go DIRECTLY for the Oracle w/chops ~

i also agree on keeping the GE pool clear in Moscow. For that reason, we should take Metal Casting w/the Oracle ONLY IF Conf has been founded. We're going to need the religions, so we might as well get them the easy way :D

can't we get writing via Priesthood? maybe go writing>wheel>pottery and insert Maths as we nearer completion of the Oracle.

can't we get writing via Priesthood?
Yes, we can. I forgot that route entirely. :hammer2:

So...um...yeah. Since we have no barb worries, we don't need to hook up copper right away, and we're sending both the workers to chop the Oracle anyway, so Wheel won't do much for us ATM. Writing first, then Wheel->Pottery, then regroup and see where we are.

The save is visible. I'm up in a couple of SGs and I'm also "up" at work and home tonight. I won't play this tonight, but should be able to tomorrow.

Well, I disagree on the Oracle thing. It is true we have no Industrial opponent, but we don't know who may have Marble hooked up already or has beelined to the Oracle anyway. As for chopping the Oracle in Novgorod: That's near to impossible in a sensible timeframe. You get only 20 hammers per chop pre-Mathematics, and the Oracle needs 150 to finish. So it would be roughly 6 chops at the least. There is a lot of forest at the site, but we have too few workers to get the job done fast enough. Of course the city could work the Wheat and then the Iron or a Hill once it has grown, but I'd rather like to see the Oracle landed safe in Moscow. I also may add this thought: It is all nice with the clean GP lines in different cities - but have you worked out how long it takes us then to get ANY ? We are not Philosophical and do not own the Parthenon yet. The first GE will show up in about 45 turns, if we land the 'Henge he will be followed by a Great Priest. Sure, we could run an Engineer at Moscow once we got Metal Casting - but that accelerates the spawning not really much, given the fact that the required GPP will increase quite fast. Stacking GPP - and therefore some wonders - in a city seems inevitable to me at this early point of the game...

Imhotep

Ok. Perhaps we should check the numbers.

Let's see...the Novgorod site is on a plains hill, and we could work the plains iron (forget growth for now) and have 4 hammers/turn. So Novgorod can build the Oracle in 13 turns + 5 chops, or 8 turns + 6 chops.

Six chops with two workers means three successive chops at 3 turns each, plus a turn per chop to move onto forest. So 12 turns plus however long it takes 'em to get in place. Ought to be about 3 turns of walking after they finish their current tasks for a total of 15 turns after the current builds. Call it 18 turns from now. That puts us at...around 800BC to get the Oracle. Risky. :sad:

Moscow can build it in 15 after the Settler completes in 2 turns, if I remember correctly. So, the timing is similar...unless we chop or whip at Moscow to accelerate the Oracle there. I can't fire up the save at work to check the possibility of building the Oracle in St. Pete, but I doubt that we can beat this time, even if we abandoned Stonehenge (which seems silly).

In addition, the disadvantage of trying it in Novgorod is that, if we miss, we've burned a bunch of forests and still don't have a Wonder. In Moscow, all we've wasted is turns, again, unless we chop/whip to accelerate it.

So where does that leave us?

Build the Oracle in Novgorod, and send both workers to chop like crazy. Finish ~800 BC.
Build the Oracle in Moscow w/o chops. Finish in 825 BC.
Build the Oracle in Novgorod, send both workers to chop like crazy, and whip a third worker in Moscow to chop also. Shaves off 3-4 turns, so finish ~900BC.
Build the Oracle in Moscow, but send one or both workers to chop also. With 2 chops, we shave off 4 turns (and I don't think we can get three chops in time). Finish ~925BC.
Build the Oracle in Moscow, send both workers to chop, and whip the last of it. Might shave another couple of turns off and finish ~975BC, but I'm not sure how many pop points we'd have to whip away.
I guess we could accelerate #4 and #5 another turn or two if the workers drop what they're doing and head to Moscow for chops RIGHT NOW. I haven't run the numbers on this, though.

In a SP game, I would roll the dice and go for #3, but it is a big risk. Luckily, I don't have to choose! :)

As for the GPP pools...I do think we'd be happy to get a couple of GEs, since I'm sure that we're going to found some high-commerce/low-production cities (say, up in the jungle). The later we wait, the more expensive the Wonders will be, and it'll take ages to get one in each of those cities w/o a GE. The long lead time to bake a GE was what led me to think of taking Metal Casting with the Oracle.

(BTW, if I seem wishy-washy in these discussions, or seem to repeat or contradict myself, it's just that I'm 'thinking out loud' and trying on all the options. I figure that you folks are more likely to point out mistakes in my thinking if I lay more of it out on the table, and I've always found the 'why' discussions in SGs I've read to be more illuminating than the 'what' discussions. But, if it's too spammy for anyone - or if you can't tell what I'm advocating - let me know and I'll distill more before posting. Same with turn reports. Feedback is welcome, as I'm still new to the SG thing.)

first off, f8ck spam! :lol: how else can we get to know each other if we DON'T spam, right?

secondly, remember we are at Normal speed so chops are faster than 1 per 3 turns w/2 workers. It may be only 3 turns for EACH worker. that changes things a bit, i think.

i agree w/Zophos and would take the gamble in an SP game and head for the Oracle in Novgorod ~ it just *feels* right, ya' know? w/that in mind, i'm officially "poo-pooing" Imhotep's wishy-washy typical overcautiousness ~ of course, this is coming from the guy who likes to miss wonders by mere turns so take THAT for what it's worth

also, remember Rex is up next, so he won't read what we write anyway b/c he's a big doosh so :) ;)

remember we are at Normal speed so chops are faster than 1 per 3 turns w/2 workers. It may be only 3 turns for EACH worker. that changes things a bit, i think.

That's how I was figuring it - three worker-turns per forest tile. No reason to put both workers on the same forest tile - each one chops three forests in quick succession, in parallel (to get a total of six chops), and it takes 12 turns total.

It's actually SLOWER if you have the workers double up, because you spend more worker-turns on moving into forest tiles. (Painful elaboration of this point available on request)

i'm officially "poo-pooing" Imhotep's wishy-washy typical overcautiousness
Well...at least I'll have company in the woodshed if we blow this. :please:

also, remember Rex is up next, so he won't read what we write anyway b/c he's a big doosh
Rex, if you ARE reading: just remember, if you go for it, whip another worker in Moscow ASAP so that each one only has to chop twice in a row. I'm a lot more confident about getting the Oracle at 900BC than 800BC, for some reason.

I agree that the Oracle in Novgorod "feels right".

Nice turns Imhotep, good to get Monotheism first and the Great Wall. I reckon Stonehenge is a good call as well (hopefully can get a GP out of it for religion or shrine).

Research wise I'd get writing, wheel and pottery done in any order but writing if we're a shot at CoL. If someone else founds Confucianism, then Oracle for Metal Casing for a specialist in Moscow.

I'd revolt into OR asap and send ole' KK a Jewish missionary, cause we all know how successful the Great Wall is at stopping a Mongol invasion!

Research wise I'd get writing, wheel and pottery done in any order but writing if we're a shot at CoL. If someone else founds Confucianism, then Oracle for Metal Casing for a specialist in Moscow.

I'd revolt into OR asap and send ole' KK a Jewish missionary, cause we all know how successful the Great Wall is at stopping a Mongol invasion!
Good compromise ~ if Conf is open, take CoL; if its FIDL, take Metal Casting.

good point, too Ozbenno, re: religion spread

Another day, another dollar, another chicken's worth of blood smeared on the walls to ward off the vengeful spirits of those I've damned. SSDD.

Before we get started, there's something I need to clear up. You're right, pholk, I didn't read any of the page and a half of you women debating where to put the Oracle.

Pholk: You think he likes me?
Ozzy: I don't know <giggle, giggle>. I heard Samantha say that he was gonna ask Jennifer to go with him.

Sheesh. :rolleyes:. You'd think our "leader" might have grown a sack and and told us how it's gonna be. But no, as usual pholkheroine leaves it up to *me* to be the man around here and make the tough decisisons for him. So here goes. Take it or leave it. I don't give a fashizzle.

Timmy, you're a great guy. But you're young, unmarried, and still full of zest. Not the sort of qualities typically associated with world domination so your opinion is disregarded. Pholk, you've missed twenty-seven wonders in SGs with my by two or fewer turns. Ergo, you're opinion is worthless on this matter.

All others, I don't know you well enough to insult you so I'll just go and stick the frappin' Oracle in Novgorod-to-be and chop the ever lovin' bajeebus out of the forest to get it. If we fail, we fail. But fortune favors the bold and I'm about to make a cocktail, so phfffbbbttt!

Henge due in 9 up in Petrograd. That's great. Leave well enough alone. I'm sending all workers to novgorod ASAP and rushing the setler in Moscow.

They each have five turns of travel. Hmmm. That's a long time. Okay, I won't rush the settler as he'll still get there before the choppy choppy.

Press enter.

http://deviantminds.us/rex/hlwl/baaha.jpg

1360 and we husband our animals and start on writing.

http://deviantminds.us/rex/hlwl/henge.jpg

1320 Change of plans? Henge BIFAL! :sad: So I started St. Pete on the Oracle. Turn counter says 19, but we can chop a lot of forests to get that down to a reasonable number.

1280 and IBT a barb archer attacked a fog-busting warrior in the SW that I didn't know was there. I suppose that means we have one fewer units to pay for, right guys?

http://deviantminds.us/rex/hlwl/novgorod.jpg

In 1200 I put Novgorod where Timmy said so. Really, I'm just too lazy to see if there's a better site. I started it on The Pyramids as a place holder, really. I didn't want another warrior and I want the city to grow, so settlers and workers are off-limits. I could have put an obelisk monument, but ...eh...

http://deviantminds.us/rex/hlwl/writing.jpg

http://deviantminds.us/rex/hlwl/techlist.jpg

In 1080 an infinite number of monkies stole an infinite number of typewriters from Brennus and taught us all that paper is for more than just wiping our tokhes (tuchis?)(Yiddish spelling is apparently non-standard.) CoL is too far away for any real run at the CS slingshot, but some very appealing options are available. When we get MY free tech, I say we go for Christianity. For now, I chose to research The Wheel.

Barbs are everywhere, BTW, so we might want to consider learning archery for Novgorod-outside-the-wall.

In 1000 BC, Novgorod's borders expand and we now have four hills, wheat and iron in the BFC. Not too shabby.

Okay, this *should* be the end of my set, but Oracle is two away and the suspense would kill me and I'm a greedy **** and Pholk said I could, and my father only had one testicle, and a girl beat me up in the third grade and she tied me to the flagpole and all the other kids laughed because they could see I had smurf underoos on.

So on I play...:evil:

http://deviantminds.us/rex/hlwl/wheel.jpg

Wheel comes in just in time for this beauty:

http://deviantminds.us/rex/hlwl/oracle.jpg

And here's the buffet:

http://deviantminds.us/rex/hlwl/theologygrab.jpg

http://deviantminds.us/rex/hlwl/medieval.jpg

http://deviantminds.us/rex/hlwl/inri.jpg

Save's around here somewhere... (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85158/PH03_BC-0950.CivWarlordsSave)

Good turns, Rex. Good work on the Oracle in St. Pete, and we got some nice cash for the half-henge. :thumbsup: And I'm sure you'll get to know us all well enough to insult us all soon.

FYI, the effects of the Great Wall expand as your cultural borders expand (even though the graphic doesn't - yes, it's a little goofy). So, Novgorod is just as safe from the barbs as good ol' Moscow.

Of course, with Theology under our belts, I am possessed by a most un-cultural-victory-like urge to go make sweet, sweet war on someone, but I will valiantly resist. I presume that Novgorod wound up as the Christian Holy City? If so, we could always build the shrine as the required Wonder in that city.

Nice one Rex, Theology was the best choice for Oracling. Stonehenge is no loss and the 100% research cash is great.

We should still have a run at CoL, as its also a pre-requisite for Philosophy. Work on Pottery first maybe.

We might also take a breather on the wonder front and get a couple more cities out there and start building missionaries to spread the word to our heathen splitter unbrothers.

Timmy, you're a great guy. But you're young, unmarried, and still full of zest. Not the sort of qualities typically associated with world domination so your opinion is disregarded.

We're not going for domination - we're going for culture ! And there is no doubt that the opinion of a european burgeois is of more worth in this matter than the one of a guy whose success with girls and life merely comes from the size of the rest of his body ;) :D .

Anyhow, you played a great turnset. Sad that my 'Henge plans didn't come true, but really cool that we got the Oracle. I guess it was simply a lot too late for the 'Henge - it was out there pretty quick. Good call on Theocracy and Christianity. Not only this is giving us our second religion - Theocracy is a tech the AI values highly. We might get some good techs for it later.

With Novgorod being the Christian Holy City it will pop borders quicker too, and the Oracle should get us at least 2 Great Priests. Hopefully our GE arrives just in time to finish the Pyramids...

I'm glad you like the location I chose for Novgorod. I can foresee a Heroic Epic there and the churning of endless streams of military...

Again, well played !

Imhotep

nice turns, good write-up, and the obligatory "f- you" for the insults ~

okay, w/that out of the way, it's too bad about the henge, but Oracle is jsut as good, and as imhotep points out, it nabs us another religion. I still think we should go for CoL as Ozbenno says, but Pottery for cottages is a higher priority, i think ~

also and again i agree w/Ozbenno ~ let's cool it for now on wonders and focus on the empire building and religion spreading/temple building.

Got it.

Do I hear a 'got it', Pholk? Since it's your turn and all...

oh, ahh...

didn't you see the one in my other post?

geez, learn to read ;)

playing now. report later.

i've played, but won't be able to report until tomorrow.

F***ing slacker ! ;)

Come on, Pholk, we all know work's a joke to you. You should have had that report to us sometime between your 9:00AM half-hour dump and your mid-morning nap. Look at it this way: if you get it out of the way now, you might be able to squeeze in 20 minutes of work sometime around 3:30 or so. :goodjob:

i actually thought of bringing in my notes today, but decided against it since i'd need to wait until i got hom to upload my pics anyway.

No worries. It's unlikely that I can play my set before tomorrow anyway, so it won't slow down the pace of the game.

okay, since Zophos is so pushy, i made you all wait.

t00/950 bc:
383 turns left in the game to capture our Cultural win. Should i play 3 or 13?? hmm...it'll depend on events.

t01/925:
move 3rd worker towards Iron (i first wrote Iran there :nuke: ); 2 workers are pasturing the cows over at StPete. Our settler is going to be done next turn, so I make the exucutive decision to play 13 turns.

t02/900:
Archery in > Pottery started for cottages. And . . .
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/8935/civ4screenshot0019sr5.jpg
we lost the Pyramids! :mad: looks like we need the Hanging Gardens in Moscow then.

Also, look at Hannibal's new borders:
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2166/civ4screenshot0020qh1.jpg

I send the newly built settler west. With the Great Wall, i decide to use it to its fullest and found the city w/o any protection. StPete is starting on a warrior as protection, but for now it's going out defenseless into the jungle :D

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4061/civ4screenshot0022ri7.jpg
our ChristMiss spreads Christianity to Moscow.

t03/875:
Revolt to OrgReligion

t04/850:
Brennus comes by:
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/6508/civ4screenshot0025kt2.jpg
I agree for good relations . . . for now.

t05/825:
JewMiss started at StPete as the warrior finishes, and I start another at Moscow.

t06/800:
I'm connecting our resources @ StPete, the cow, the copper and the gold ~ the workers will then head south to Moscow.

t07/775:
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2523/civ4screenshot0027ol7.jpg
Rostov founded, it goes Worker First.

t08/750:
nothing really.

t09/725:
Pottery>Math, and there's anger at Moscow ~ I will remedy that soon.

t10/700:
StPete finishes the JewMiss and sends him north to spread the word amongst the Carthaginians.

t11/675:
All the resources are connected at StPete and the Moscow-StPete ThruWay (I-787) is being started.

t12/650:
Nvgrd: Worker>Library; Confucisanism FIDL!
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/8186/civ4screenshot0028rh9.jpg
We revolt to Judaism.

t13/625:
Missionaries are in far-away lands, aiming to spread the faith. Our 2nd one is down in Mongolia.

t14/600 bc:
nothing much happens this last turn. Math is due in 9 turns . We certainly need more cities, and i *don't* think i see that much of an advantage of the Imperialist trait.

All these forests here can be chopped for a Wonder in the near future.
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/8779/civ4screenshot0029tb4.jpg
Rostov will be a nice little commerce city for us!

And here's our budding cultural empire, complete w/possibilities for future acquisitions:
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9549/civ4screenshot0030jf4.jpg

We can go up the top of the tech tree from here, and hopefully grab Taosim at Philosophy on our way to Music and Drama.

We should gear Novgorod towards production and get some military deterrents built soon. We can perhaps turns this city towards Wonder production for culture in the future.

I'm thinking, for now, focus on expansion, temples and religion spread, no??

Pholkhero > just played
Zophos > UP NOW
Ozbenno > on deck
Imhotep >
Rex >

Got it. Will play tomorrow - too busy yawning now.

Pity about losing both Pyramids and Confucianism. I agree with heading towards Philosophy and building a deterrent army. We also want to be FIRST to Music (free GA in culture game is GOOD).

I'd get a Jewish missionary to Kublai and all our cities asap as well.

We also can grow a couple of cities. I'd head south next as KK seems to be expanding there and then coastal north east (Colossus??). If we can block Hannibal of in the north-east, we have room for at least 2 other cities on the coast.

If there's any space left in the above, knock in a Temple or two, Christian monestaries in Moscow and Novgorod, get Metal Casing for a forge for Moscow and build some more wonders. In ten turns of course.

As for wonders, chop out Sistine Chapel in Rostov?

We await in anticipation your turns Zophos.

Personally, I think we need to cool it on the chopping. Those forests are useful in other ways. Especially since, before mathematics, we're getting half price on them. I also think we can wait on wonders. We can back-fill some of our cities with late-game wonders. We'll want Taj, Statue of Liberty. Maybe Eifel Tower, too. I'd get up on settlers, improvements, and temples for the moment.

Do we count National Wonders as Wonders in regard to the Variant too ? I do agree with Rex on the forest chopping. They are very valuable once they are lumbermilled. Health and production are necessary ! I think too that we should expand first now.

Imhotep

Not sure what pholk had in mind but I wouldn't count National Wonders, as it takes less luck, I mean skill, to accomplish.

Fair enough point on the chopping. We do need to get more cities out. Hey, why not chop a settler. :D

But forests do have a limited use in culture game as we won't research to Replaceable Parts for lumber mills but should wait for Mathematics before anymore chopping. Forests on a river like in Rostov can be replaced by lumber mills after Machinery.

We also can grow a couple of cities. I'd head south next as KK seems to be expanding there and then coastal north east (Colossus??).That's EXACTLY what i was thinking. Settle east of Ning Hsia next, and that furthest NE city site up by Hannibal as the next two cities, though the NE one is a bit of a reach and may be a real b1tch on maintenance.

re: Chopping ~ couldn't disagree more w/Rex and Timhotep ~ we've got 6 (six!) hills at Rostov, 5 are grass hills! We've got plenty of production. Math is due in 9 so we won't be losing hammers anymore, either. I also didn't meant to suggest that we chop out a wonder right now ~ just, for the future, when we've got the extra workers, we can chop a wonder out w/all those forests.

Who knows that we'll get to the point, technologically, to build those late-game wonders, and if we go w/9 cities, we're goign to need 7 more wonders built, and on Monarch, we may be in a race to build almost every one. I'm thinking perhaps chop out the Great Library at Rostov, but we'll have to wait and here from the rest of the group.

re: Nat'l Wonders: i don't think they should count.

I was talking about saving our chops for later-game wonders. Especially when we have math + forge + production bonus civics each chop will be worth three times more hammers.

Ok...just took a quick glance at everything last night when I got home, so I'm operating from memory here (while typing at the office).

Agree on the location of a city down by Ning-Hsia. Some good resources to grab down there, and we don't want to cede the whole area to the Horde. I also recall there being two or three coastal sites E and NE from Moscow that looked worth grabbing, too. We need to get a couple more cities out there ASAP.

Economy is going to become an issue soon, too. In the save, we have 60-odd gold, running -9/turn at 100% science. I had to run the slider down to 60% to balance. Founding another city or two is only going to make the problem worse, and I don't see us funding deficit spending with conquest. With the Pyramids gone, a specialist economy is a lot less desirable (plus I have next to no experience at running one). SO.....we need to get some cottages out there, and fast.

Agree that chopping should wait for Math, at the minimum. The next thing I'd want to chop is Sistine, and I don't think we're in danger of losing it if we wait a few turns. We have more jobs than workers right now, anyway, and founding another city or two is only going to make THAT problem worse, too.

As an aside, National Wonders absolutely do not count. Says 'World Wonders' right in post #1. End of story. But remember that a shrine IS a World Wonder, so Novgorod has a lock on a Wonder if we need it.

And lastly, there's our next Tech after Math. I can make good arguments for Alphabet, CoL, and Metal Casting as the next tech. I could even see getting Sailing sometime soon, for exploration & trade routes. However, I think our economic situation - and expansion plans - argue for CoL most strongly. I'll take a look at the time-to-research on each option when I fire it up again.

Turns won't get played for a few hours, so please discuss.

Personally I don't think -9 at 100% or break even at 60% is a sign of a poor economy. Typically I will expand until I hit about break even at 30% sometimes even 20%. So I would advocate for founding of a couple of more cities. regarding research, code of laws is definitely a strong choice though I think alphabet is probably just a strong

agree on most ~ one thing i didn't check nor remember was our research % so i'm glad you did that. I don't think 60 is the absolute cut-off, but i usually don't go as low as Rex "just in case" of emergencies. With that in mind, perhaps just one more city for now, before we cut some costs through courthouses. also, anotehr worker or two ~

also, though Shrines may be within the letter of the law, i believe they violate the spirit ~ at least to count them as the required "wonder in each city" simply b/c there's no competition involved in nabbing them.

tech-wise, i think Currency may even be a viable option, but were this SP, i'd probably go with Alpha before CoL

finally, we could head for 4 religions (w/Islam obviously as the 4th) and then we'd need less cities and wonders, about 6 cities + 4 religions = 8 cathedrals (not counting the Hermitage). just another thought to throw out there.

I'd go for Alphabet and see what we can tart around in trades. Then CoL, Philosophy, Currency, Literature, Metal Casing in no real order (but obviously want to make sure we nab Taoism).

I'm sure we can fund another two cities. As long as we make sure our neighbours are all happy Jews. Anyway, our financial saviour will be the Jewish shrine, just keep pumping out missionaries.

Also, think Shrines are against the spirit of the variant.

Agreed, brother. Er, sister, sorry! ;)

uhm...nevermind...

A bit quick to cut me out of the rotation, there, Pholk. :nono: Yes, I caught it before you edited out the roster. ;)

Playing now. Report to follow ASAP.

i htought your "playing in a bit" was a (very short) report :blush:

caught red-handed

Sorry for the delay. I hate it when the kids don't sleep. :(

Fairly uneventful turns - mostly builder/worker stuff. Got out a new city, and a second settler will be in place in a couple more turns. Economy is hurting a
bit, but life is generally good in Russia.

Here's the detail:

Inherited Turn - 600BC
Mostly looks good. MM St. Pete to work the gold mine - shaves 2 turns off Math, and we still grow next turn. Press Enter

Turn 1 - 575 BC
Missionary arrives in Hippo....which is already Jewish! Must've happened before we switched ourselves. Send the missionary NW to the Carthaginian city by the elephants.

Second missionary speads the good word in Ning-Hsia. Ought to buy some goodwill with Khan.

Workers do worker stuff. Snore.

IBT - Yep, Khan converts to Judaism. Brennus is now the odd man out.

Turn 2 - 550 BC
More worker stuff. Starting to cottage around Moscow & hooking up Iron at Novgorod.

Turn 3 - 525 BC
More of the same

Turn 4 - 500 BC
Moscow finishes Jewish Temple -> Archer (3T) to act as Settler escort down by Ning-Hsia.

Missionary succeeds in Utica (a.k.a. Phanttown).

IBT - Barb archer appears near city site by Ning-Hsia. Can't bother our cities, of course, but the escort appears to be a good plan.

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3972/civ4screenshot0000ji8.jpg (http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0000ji8.jpg)

Turn 5 - 475 BC
:coffee:

IBT - Barb archer ignores all the tasty workers and heads NW to bother Khan. I'm liking the Wall already.

Turn 6 - 450 BC
St. Pete finishes Library -> Settler for a coastal city. Our borders surround that coast so well that I'm going to send him out unescorted.

Rostov finishes Worker -> Library (30T). There's going to be a lot of commerce in Rostov when we finally get the jungle cleared and the gold mine going. Send the new worker to get the rice farmed and pull one of the workers from Novgorod to mine the gold.

Judaism spreads to Rostov naturally! Still need to get a missionary over to Novgorod.

Iron is hooked up (might have been previous turn...notes don't say). We can build axes/swords/spears in Moscow and St. Pete in 4 turns, if we need to.

Turn 7 - 425 BC
Math comes in
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/2030/mathsplashpo1.jpg (http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mathsplashpo1.jpg)

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/4554/civ4screenshot0002lh4.jpg (http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0002lh4.jpg)

Start Alphabet. Due in 12 turns, but we're going to have to drop the slider almost immediately.

Moscow grows to size 7 and finishes Archer -> Settler.

St Pete has a turn in on the Settler, and, after some debate, I whip it for 2 pop. This is where the Imperialistic trait helps a fair bit - we're getting 45 hammers/pop when whipping Settlers. We'll grow back the first of the pop in two turns.

IBT - Barb axes are starting to show up in our neighbors' territory. Our guys are sipping mint juleps and watching the show. :D I can see 2 barb units inside Khan's borders, and 2-3 more inside Hannibals'.

Turn 8 - 400 BC
St. Pete finishes Settler -> Granary ('cuz I don't think that's the last whip we're going to do there, and it's only 5 turns).

Moscow: One turn invested...whip the settler here for 2 pop, also.

IBT - St. Thomas (Prophet) BIFAL. Temple of Artemis BIFAL, too.

Turn 9 - 375 BC
Settlers moving towards their destinations. Archer is in place at city site SW of Moscow.

IBT - Machiavelli has a news flash for us.

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/1599/advancedzx8.jpg (http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=advancedzx8.jpg)

And the Mahabodi gets built. Guess I know what St. Thomas has been up to. We ought to get some more missionaries out to our new buddies, to prevent them becoming ex-buddies.

Turn 10 - 350 BC
St. Pete grows back to size 3. MM it to use the farm for faster growth. Feel free to veto and run the gold mine instead.

Yaroslavl' founded on the coast, up by the copper. This should wall off a couple more coastal sites for us to settle at our leisure.

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/8609/civ4screenshot0008lk0.jpg (http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0008lk0.jpg)

Start it on a worker, because there's a LOT of jungle to clear out. Again, feel free to veto.

Overviews

The Empire:
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/2600/civ4screenshot0009cw4.jpg (http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0009cw4.jpg)

Economy situation:

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/1268/civ4screenshot0012qg1.jpg (http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0012qg1.jpg)

We're out of cash, and balanced at 50% on the slider. We'll drop lower when the second Settler does his thing. The good news is that we have one gold mine sitting idle, and a second will be online in Rostov very soon.

Power Graph:

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/8215/civ4screenshot0014nf1.jpg (http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0014nf1.jpg)

Everyone is peaceful at the moment, but let's not get TOO far behind...

And lastly...THE SAVE (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/89877/PH03_BC-0350.CivWarlordsSave).

OK. Got it. I'll have a look at the save, post some thoughts and then play tomorrow.

OK, not to much to comment on really so lets just get on with it shall we. I change Yaroslavl to an archer to let it grow to 2 before worker.

Taoism FIADL two turns in :mad: . Brennus cancels OB with us.

St Petes Granary --> Worker
Novogord Library --> Axe

Found Yekateringberg. Barb city down there as well (notice the stone).

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/7489/civ4screenshot0010nx7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)Research break even at 40%.

Moscow Granary --> Missionary

Gold mine at Rostov online, allows +1gpt at 50%.

Novgorod Axe --> Christian Temple (will allow us to employ a priest to speed up GP).
St Petes worker --> axe

And that was a very quiet ten turns. The GE will pop in Moscow next turn. Pyramids built in 950BC apparently from pholks report, I mean the info screen :p . I'd then use the GE to build Sistine Chapel in Yekateringburg, or to bulb Metal Casing but probably the former.

We're back to break even at 60%, which means a couple more settlers. Alphabet due in 3. Monarchy will open up Divine Right. Literature the Great Library

Yekater... will grow to 2 next turn, switch to worker.

Moscow and St Petes will definately be 2 of our culture cities. Which will be the third? Novgorod will eventually have the Christian Shrine so probably this one. We could then farm everything in Rostov for a GP farm.

The Save

138885

Pity about losing both Pyramids and Confucianism.so :p at you!

good turns, folks! that really blows about losing taoism, though! I think we need to bend our all to getting DR and Islam or else we'll be SoL (sh*t outta luck).

i like that idea for using Novgorod for culture and Rostov for a GPF, though we do have a TON of hills there ~ it might make a nice little commerce/production city. Perhaps we could found a city further out, nabbing those two bananas and make it our GPF.

I really like the side-benefit of the Great Wall that you can send settlers out ungaurded in many circumstances and not ahve to worry about barbs.

Pholkhero >
Zophos >
Ozbenno > just played
Imhotep > UP NOW
Rex > on deck

Now, i know Imhotep is away during the weekends, so perhaps when Rex sees this, he can swap with Imho and play 10 this weekend ~

Well, seeing Oz's turns, we never had a shot at Taoism. At the start of my turns, we needed 6 or 8 turns for Meditation and 40+ for Philosophy. Running at 100%.

Agree completely on getting DR ASAP. Guess we can just call ourselves "The People of the Book". ;)

Of course, we don't have to FOUND all the religions we use. But that would require Brennus to open borders with us again, or require us to find the other two AIs out there somewhere...

I'll swap with Timmy and play this weekend.

so :p at you!


Oh forgot about that :blush: .

Very well I am up. A quick note: I am writing this report using my brand new fancy dancy voice recognition software. So if you see a bunch of instances where I should have written their instead of there, blame my lack of editing. Or blame Pholk.

Onto the game. Wow it’s taking a long time to load. Is this game really that big? I know it hasn’t really been a long time since I last played this game but looking around our cities don’t look all that familiar. We’ve got a bunch of cities. Six actually. Moscow and Saint Petersburg look to be the obvious cultural choices. Not sure what the third will be.

Looks like the current order of the day is to Jewish up the universe. I’m down with that. Not much to do on my inherited turn. So I just press enter.

Isambard kingdom brunel (great engineer) has been born in Moscow. Sweet. That’s like a free wonder. What cities do we need wonders in? Moscow as the great wall. Saint Petersburg has the oracle. Novgorod has nothing. Rostov has nothing. Yaroslavl’ has nothing. Yekaterinburg has nothing. Of the cities with nothing, Yekaterinburg has about nineteen hills. It will have no problems building its own wonder. Yaroslavl’ has two hills and copper so it can probably build its own someday too. Novgorod is a production powerhouse. And Rostov staff has a lot of forest chop.

So I think that Yaroslavl’ is the best place to put a wonder and burn our engineer. Zooming in on the city, I see it can build the Sistine chapel and the Parthenon right now. It can build the hanging gardens if it had an aqueduct. It could build the great light house if it had a not so great light house. So I’ll send our engineer over that way.

It’s now 50 BC and Moscow has trained a Jewish missionary. I started on another. Novgorod has one angry citizen so I decide to whip the rest of a Christian temple. It cost two population but we’ll have 23 extra hammers next turn.

In 25 BC alphabet comes in and I begin monarchy due in ten. After monarchy we can learn divine right but that will take us 51 turns. Novgorod has finished a Christian temple and I began work on a Christian missionary.

At the turn of the millennium, Saint Petersburg finishes and axe man. I start it on a Jewish temple.

In 25 AD Novgorod finishes its Christian missionary and I start it on another. Yaroslavl’ gives us an Archer and I started on a library. The great lighthouse has been built in a faraway land. Bummer. However our engineer also arrives in Yaroslavl’ and he can give us 540 hammers for the Sistine chapel leaving us only 60 for ourselves. I’m going to start on the chapel and if we get the first 60 before someone else builds it I’ll burn the engineer.

In 50 AD Sid shows up to tell us that our empire now holds half a million souls. Big deal.

In 75 Moscow trains a Jewish missionary so we started on a Christian temple. Crap, we get four messages on this turn. One telling us that a great profet has been born in Utica. The second says a great scientist has been born in a faraway land. The third says a great profet has been born in a faraway land. And the fourth tells us that the Parthenon has been built in a faraway land. Crap indeed. The wonders are dropping like flies.

I’m sending Jewish missionaries up into Hannibal’s land because I don’t see any other foreign cities. When they get there they can explore and find cities to infest.

In 100 I get a message telling me the kashi vishwanath has been built in a faraway land. Which religion is that the shrine for? Our Christian missionary failed to spread his religion in Saint Petersburg. I don’t understand the religion spread algorithm. Saint Petersburg only has one religion.

I’m going to stop here even though I’ve only played eight. But it’s 100 A. However the victory screen Says we have 341 turns left. I’m not sure where we want the round number but I usually like to make the year come out nice.

Up in Yaroslavl’ our worker just finished the first chop on the Sistine chapel. That will give us a 38 hammers invested. The second chop will give us 70 something and we can burn the engineer. However it’s certainly not too early to back out of that plan.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85158/PH03_AD-0100.CivWarlordsSave

Stinkin' save for you anxious masses. Sorry for no screenies. My time is limited tonight.

Sistine Chapel is the right one to burn the GE on as its a good Kulcha wonder and is expensive.

Nice turns, and good call on the GE ~ if we got w/Rostov as the GPF, if we focus it on GAs it'll be producing crazy amts of culture w/Sistine going as well.

We may have to go to more modern techs just to get wonders built in all our cities if they keep dropping like this!

Hopefully, Immy can pick this up later tonight/tomorrow Germany-time and play.

Pholkhero > on deck
Zophos >
Ozbenno >
Imhotep > UP NOW
Rex > just played

Got it, will play now and report later...

Well, these were pretty quiet builder turns. But not altogether uneventful. Let's begin with the good news:

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/9743/1mu9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Yummy yummy ! :yup:

+2 culture for every specialist. Neat !

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4736/2pv7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Welcome to Carthage !

http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/1434/4pw0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I started research of Literature when Monarchy came in, but then I got this message after 5 turns of research:

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/4733/5vk2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Did anyone say something about the variant being easier because of no industrious Civ aboard ? :rolleyes:

However, I decided to let the research of Literature finish: We may want the National Epic for GP production.

Later this dude showed up:

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/5516/6cz6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Thanks buddy, we don't need your stinkin' fish.

And this is Sakae:

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2421/8vu8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

It has a Wall inside and seems pretty hopeless to take unless we show up with 5 or 6 Swords.

On the whole I did build some cottages and farms and spread the word 'round. I started some Barracks in our stronger production cities too - after all we need some defense unless an AI becomes greedy.

The next player may want to start research on Meditation (3 turns) and Divine Right (46 turns). We get a Great Prophet out of St. Petersburg in about 25 turns, I hired an additional Priest there.

Imhotep

Nice playin there Immy. Looks liek I'm up in another game. I *might* be able to play this tonight, but it's now SG#4 i'm up in. (hmm...am in TOO many SGs :mischeif:)

It might be nice to get the GP born at the same time we finish 1/2 of DR.

Daddy, are we there yet? I know you played two SGs last night and wrote two of your worst reports as well, but would it kill you to get off your ass and play, Mr. Hero?

Or, if the workload is too much, I can swap and play tonight. Just let me know.

piss off, all of you ~

played last night, report now.

t00/350 (331 turns left):
Not much, press enter.

t01/375:
w/o tech splashes, i don't even know what tech was finished up, but i started on Music for the GA hopefully.

Yekaterinberg and Moscow both start on Barracks; I MM'ed a bit in our cities, focusing on growth where possible w/the happy limit.

t02/400:
Nothing.

t03/425:
At the barb city SW of the empire, a barb archer moved onto a grasslands tile on the IT. Our sword pays him a visit.
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6559/civ4screenshot0000ke2.jpg

t04/450:
Kubey stops over:
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/920/civ4screenshot0001zu1.jpg

Novgorad: Aque > Barracks
Rostov: Barracks > Jewish Temple

t05/475:
Yekat: Barracks >Sword (and later it'll start on a library for the culture).

Also:
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9833/civ4screenshot0002vx6.jpg

(it) a barb archer attacks:

and Hannibal pays a visit:
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/3366/civ4screenshot0004vr8.jpg

I say no, but also see if he can trade the Ivory to us for the extra happy:
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7778/civ4screenshot0005em8.jpg
No dice!

t06/500 -t09/560:
Just building and worker stuff; nothing exciting :)

t10/580:
Some Great People are born elsewhere . . .
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/5783/civ4screenshot0006vc6.jpg

. . . and Judaism is spread via Missionary.
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9496/civ4screenshot0007su2.jpg

t11/600:
Nothing else, that's it for now.

Further thoughts coming w/the save in next post.

I built a few more Jewish missionaries for our cities and to send abroad. We also could use more temples all around to boost happy limits and get ready for cathedrals.

We should move towards Calendar pretty soon, too.

Pholkhero > just played
Zophos > UP NOW
Ozbenno > on deck
Imhotep >
Rex >

And the save. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85326/PH03_AD-0600.CivWarlordsSave)

Got it. Probably will play tonight (after family time).

In the meantime - Was there a conscious decision to abandon the Great Prophet -> Divine Right path? I notice that we're researching Music, and that we're scheduled to pop a GE or GS in Moscow before the GP in St. Pete. Not that I'd mind having either, mind you, but I thought getting the last religion (our third) was Top Priority...

no, it was a subconscious mistake on my part :( sorry all.

How much of Divine Right have we researched, as the GP will pop 2/3 I think?

I'd still go for the GA with Music, if we get beat to it, switch to something else maybe. If we get the GA, at this stage of the game I'd maybe merge him in Novgorod (that's our 3rd culture city?) or bomb him.

I've played. Report tomorrow. (Sorry, Oz.)

Teaser: Made an aggressive play for Divine Right. And I know whether or not we'll get Islam. You get to find out when I've had some sleep. :D

I can't play until tomorrow anyway, so not a problem. Await with interest.

I've played. Report tomorrow. (Sorry, Oz.)

Teaser: Made an aggressive play for Divine Right. And I know whether or not we'll get Islam. You get to find out when I've had some sleep. :D
Sure, steal my move. :p

w/that teaser, we BETTER have Islam! :lol:

Or, if we missed it, we better have a few dozen troops one tile away from the holy city. Just as good.

Pre-Game Observations & Strategy
As I mentioned before, we have strayed from our plan of grabbing Islam using a Prophet from St. Pete. Here's where the religions stand:

Brennus founded Buddhism. Currently he's the only Buddhist (that we know of).
We've founded Judaism & Christianity. We, Hannibal, and Khan are Jewish.
Hinduism, Confucianism, and Taoism have been FIADL, probably on the other continent.
Islam remains unfounded. We really want a third religion

We have two cities without any religions (Yekaterinburg and Yaroslavl'), but I don't fancy hoping that Buddhism naturally spreads to either one. Especially since Brennus is Cautious at best, and we don't currently have OB with him. And if we mess around, I fear that our nemeses from the other continent will snatch the last religion.

BTW, according to the 5-best-cities screen, one of the civs on the other continent has Hinduism and the shrine, and the other has both the Pyramids and the Great Library. I'm betting that the latter is the one who's stolen Taoism, too. I think he's the one to watch for in the religion race, and since I have no way of knowing how close he is to DR, I'm planning to go all-out for DR. Wish me luck. ;)

Inherited Turn - 600 AD (320 turns left)
Reviewing our Empire, I make a bunch of changes:

Brennus will take Open Borders with us. Accept, on the off chance that Buddhism will spread to us. And, 'cuz we can't afford a war, the diplo bonus will help, too.
Assign one Priest in St. Pete. GP now Due in 11 turns. If I assign two, I can't work the gold mine, and Music drops from 5 turns to 6.
I considered firing one or both Scientists in Moscow, but it delays Music to 6 turns. We will want the Artist and the ability to build cathedrals, plus we're more than halfway done, so I decide to finish it before DR - if I blow it, I can always change my username. :mischief: Keep both Scientists. GS or GE due in 11 turns. Gotta watch that to be sure I get the GP instead.
MM Rostov to work the gold mine. Costs 1 turn on growth and 2 turns on the Temple, but it balances our finances (0 gold @ 50% slider)
MM Yekaterinburg. This was just silly - we were working two plains-forests and not the plains-hill-mine or the pasturized cows. Pick up +3 food and +1 hammer for free.
Yaroslavl' is building an Aqueduct? Hmm...oh, it's unhealthy because it's not hooked up to the trade network. Need a road here, or get Sailing. Leave the Aqueduct building for lack of a better idea at the moment, but take the local worker off jungle-chopping duty and set him to roading toward St. Pete.
Realized that we need to have Meditation in order to lightbulb DR. That would cost us another two turns after Music, so back to the trading table. Brennus will make the following trade:
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/6327/civ4screenshot0000tm0.jpg (http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0000tm0.jpg)

I've seen better, but every little bit will help. He already has Alphabet, and GL's been built, so giving him Lit won't hurt much. And maybe another diplo bonus, too. Do it.
Whaddya mean 'no diplo bonus'!?! Guess I didn't bend over far enough for Brennus. B**tard.
Note to self: We haven't revolted to HR yet, and a couple of cities are at the happy cap (Moscow is over). Don't want the anarchy while I'm chasing DR, but don't want to forget it either.

Take a deep breath, press Enter.

IBT - Hannibal comes knocking.

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5831/civ4screenshot0001tv0.jpg (http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0001tv0.jpg)

I deny this trade - if he doesn't have Monarchy, he can't research DR. And he's Financial, with a higher GNP. Plus we need HBR like a hole in the head.

While we're talking though...let's see if begging will get us anywhere. I politely ask for Sailing. And get it. :cooool: He still won't trade Ivory for Gold, though.

In other news, Angkor Wat is BIFAL. When I remember to check, I discover it's in the same city as the 'mids and GL. Really starting to get worried about that guy over there.

Turn 1 - 620 AD
Crap. Even with Sailing, Yaroslavl' is still not connected. Where does that d*mn river go, anyway? Ah...off into the fog in the northwest. Great.

Workers work, cities build, and our Jewish Missionary heads toward Yekaterinburg, which is in a border war with Khan's city.

Turn 2 - 620 AD
Novgorod finishes Granary -> Jewish Temple

IBT - Brennus -> Vassalage

Turn 3 - 660 AD
St. Pete finishes Jewish Missionary, starts another. We need to get some more of Khan's cities infested. Send this one to Yaroslavl' for the building bonus.

Now, I came to a decision point. If I really want to play for Islam, I'm going to have to go whole hog. The upcoming Prophet is going to get us less than 1100 beakers for DR, and it costs 1932. We're only making 60 or so per turn running at 50%, so it'll be 14+ turns before we can lightbulb it. And the AIs are going to start discovering our 'trade techs' (e.g. Theology) on their own sooner or later. So...time to roll the dice.

I sell Theology to everyone else on the continent. For it, I get:

Khan:Currency & 210g. Gets +1 trade routes and some money for 100% research
Hannibal: Calendar & 150g. A couple more happy resources opened up, plus more research funding.
Brennus: Construction. Not the best deal, but we need cats to take that barb city in the SW (good site), and I don't want the others to sell it to him instead.


So...a hefty beaker profit, plus 360 gold to fund research. I turn the slider up to 100%. Losing 40gpt. :eek: We'll have Music in 1, then DR in...17. At this rate, we should have enough to lightbulb DR after about 7-8 turns. So, I hire another priest in St. Pete. GP now due in 5.

Cross fingers, press Enter.

IBT - Khan converts to Buddhism. :mad: Maybe I should have sent missionaries there sooner. Ah, well, we'll get him back.

Turn 4 - 680 AD
Music is in.
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/9553/musicsplashgz6.jpg (http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=musicsplashgz6.jpg)

:aargh: Where's my Great Artist!?! Checking the logs, I see that GAs were BIFAL in 300 AD and 325 AD. Looks like both Pholk and I were :smoke: on this one. At least we can build cathedrals.

Start Divine Right. Hope this mess didn't cost us Islam.

Yekaterinburg finishes Library -> Catapult. I will take out my frustrations on that barb city. Or at least set it up.

Switch Novgorod to a Jewish missionary so we can go convince Khan to rejoin the One True Faith.

IBT - Khan wants to trade (his) silk for (our) gold. Sure. We need the happies.

Turn 5 - 700 AD
One of our swords down by barbtown whacks a wandering Archer. Free XP.

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2246/freexp01ci2.jpg (http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=freexp01ci2.jpg)

Take St. Pete off no-growth emphasis. Moscow is no longer unhappy.

Yaroslavl' is now connected to the Empire by a road and is also Jewish. It's much happier and healthier now.

Turn 6 - 720 AD
St. Pete finishes Jewish missionary, starts another. Send this one to Khan.

Whack another archer by barbtown.

Turn 7 - 740 AD
Yaroslavl' finishes Aqueduct. Start a trireme to do a bit of exploring.

Turn 8 - 760 AD
Yekaterinburg finishes a catapult, starts another.

Our Prophet has arrived! He will lightbulb 1082 beakers toward Divine Right. We have 532/1932 now. A few more turns should do it. Fire the two priests in St. Pete and put their lazy butts back to work.

Novgorod finishes another Jewish missionary (for Khanland) and goes back to building a Jewish Temple.

Turn 9 - 780 AD
Moscow finishes a Settler. More on builds in a sec.

I decide to check the math on Divine Right. We need 1932 beakers. Prophet will give us