THIS IS A WARLORDS GAME

Okay, here's the deal. It's a simple rule: we must win by Diplomatic victory, and focus on religion, and making our neighbors into one big happy f-in family (that will then vote for us in the UN elections).

Leader: Gandhi of the Indians
Opponents: 6 Random
Difficulty: Monarch
Map: Continents
Size: Standard
Speed: Normal
Victory: All Enabled, but only Diplomatic counts as a win! :D

Variant rules:
* I'd like to make Reliigion and Priests our primary strategy in this game (even to the point of spreading by sword ;))

Roster:
Pholkhero
Karr1255
Robo Kai
Scowler
Xerol

Preference give to those who wanted in on PH03 ~ but "all are welcome, allll are wellllcome . . . . step into the light, step into the lighhtttttt" err...sorry...

so, any interest from the board??

Oh all righhtttttt. I'll be in, even though this is my third running SG... and probably my fourth, if my other SG takes off.

Ive been playing Civ for awhile now and have read a ton of SG's, but have never been in 1. I would like to get my feet wet. Count me in if youll have me.

Pholk, is this Warlords or Vanilla?

Alright, all are in (not counting rex this time).

Cabledawg ~ is warlords fine with you?

Signing in. I really like the new Ghandi with the old Saladin traits. We should definitily go for an early religion and depending on available ressources a wonder.

I'd like to join too, if there is a place left ;)

I'd like to join too, if there is a place left ;)
Okay, you're in! Roster changed. It's good to see that, w/the exception of RoboKai, I've never played an SG w/any of ya'll ~ nice! I'm hoping that this will work out well.

I also have been thinking that we should have a vassal limit, too, to prevent an all out warring situation to get everyone to submit ~ but we could declare one civ ~ say, the 3rd civ we meet, as our arch-enemy and need to subdue them and make them our allies. Or, just have a one vassal limit.

I won't be able to roll a start until this evening (eastern stand. time) so we have time to hash out this sub-variant ~ i definitely think it should only be 2 max, but 1 may be better. what do you think?

Signing in. I really like the new Ghandi with the old Saladin traits. We should definitily go for an early religion and depending on available ressources a wonder.I'd only go for a wonder if a)we had the nearby resource or b)it gives either a Great Priest or Great Priest points. This is Monarch so i don't want to go wonder-chasing and lose out on a few. I'd rather prioritize one or two and go for them, and be sure to grab them.

Early religion is key. Should we go Poly>Masonry>Monotheism for two early religions? Or Poly>Priesthood>Writing>Alphabet>CoL and head for Oracle? Or something else entirely??

I'd go for poly first and skip masonry in favor of some lightbulbing action. That is of course if we don't get stone or marble.

For variants I'd say max 1 vassal and diplomacy win is enough.

Gah, another one that fills up before I wake up. Lurker ahoy.

@ Xerol ~ haha, if you'd like to play, i don't mind putting you in as an alternate. that way, in anyone goes awol or has to drop out, you'll be there to pitch in :nod: huh, huh? "Whaddaya'say?"

How about an extra condition that we have to have everyone in the same religion at one point in the game? Just for the extra challenge.

i thought of that, but i wouldn't want that to ruin our race for Diplo ~ in an ideal world, our opponent would a different religion than us, but if we're all the same religion we may lose votes taht would otherwise go to us ~ perhaps 4 out of 6 opponents may be good to aim for, counting our 1 allowed vassal??

oh, the reason i popped onto the board here is to list some wonders we may like to aim for:

Univ. of Sankore
Spiral Minaret (2 no-brainers)
Angkor Wat
Chichen Itza
Oracle

along with plenty of temples to run many priests ~

edit: btw, i'll roll up a start tongiht ~ about 8 hours hence. This is priority #1 for the night. I'll post the start, and let whoever's around comment on it, and will then play the first 20 a few hours later.

The settings:
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/1033/civ4screenshot0014rd7.jpg

And the start, after i moved the warrior W or SW to the hill he's on:
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/7933/civ4screenshot0015yh8.jpg

Discuss. I will be playing in several hours.

Here's Gandhi's traits from my corner: (http://deviantminds.us/forum/viewtopic.php?t=67)

Philosophical:
* GP birth rate increased 100%
* dbl prod: University.
University: 200h; req’s Education, Library; +3 culture, +25% science;

Spiritual:
* No anarchy
* dbl prod: Temple.
Temple: 80h; req’s Priesthood (religion); +1 culture, +1 Happy, can turn 1 citizen into Priest.

Fast Worker (replaces Worker): Str0, mvt3, 60h; can improve tiles

Mausoleum (replaces Jail): 120h, req: Constitution; -25 War unhappiness, +2 happiness

Starting Techs
Mysticism
Mining

* I definitely think we should head for Poly for Hinduism and then maybe we should aim for worker techs, CoL via Oracle, Civil Service w/a Great Priest (stonehenge??), and Philo/Taoism soon to follow.

Initial suggestion: Poly>Agr
Build: warrior>worker at pop2

anybody else have other thoughts??

Before any exploring i recommend going poly>agr. If we get the oracle->CoL we get a GP anyway for CS but if we go for stonehenge i would probably use the first GP for CoL and forget the oracle. Rather use philo instead of chasing wonders.
But a lot of this depends on terrain and ressources so no definitive answer without scouting.

cheap temples+philosophical=easy great prophets

Guys, I do not have Warlords....I also just spilled volcanic candle wax on my thumb....youch. Ill pass on this game. I could go out and buy Warlords, but it would take me a few games to get up to speed on the differences. Ill lurk here though. Good luck.

@ Cabledawg: aww...sorry to hear that...and about your hand too :goodjob: Wish us luck. I think we'll need it.

@ Xerol: 1st alternate, now drafted!! Report for duty!!

I'm going to play now. I will go for Hinduism and then Agriculture, and just explore our surroundings. we can take stock of the situation at that time.

Okay, I settled Delhi on the spot, and proceeded with our plan. Hinduism or bust! and a little warrior to defend our riverbend.

I sent our other warrior NW of the city, to see what lieth overeth thata wayeth.

In 3880 bc, our warrior pops a GH:

41g, not bad.
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/8119/civ4screenshot0017lk2.jpg

A few turns later, in 3760 Genghis Kahn shows up:
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/6632/civ4screenshot0018bu4.jpg
Hey, nice to see ya, i'm sure we'll be friends...one way or another :hammer:

Our warrior continues his explorations around our city.

3640 bc: Buddhism FIDL. Also, notice our warrior popped another hut.
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/8133/civ4screenshot0019ob1.jpg
another 33 gold, sweet.

A few turns later, we ended up next to a panther:
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/1010/civ4screenshot0020mz1.jpg
Hopefully, panthers are afraid of us as lions ;)

NO! They attack on the IT. Here is a picture of our warriors in the middle of a victory dance:
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/3609/civ4screenshot0021to7.jpg

Okay, our warrior is done just a turn before Polytheism is due:
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/6216/civ4screenshot0022du1.jpg
I send him SW to explore that area there. and next turn:
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/7373/civ4screenshot0023fp0.jpg

-- uhh, pholk, that's the same pic as before? no it isn't, say I. it has that fancy Hindu symbol now. Didn't you know you discovered it. Unfortunately, w/o Tech splashes, this is the only pic i have.

I revolted to it immediately since we're heading for a further Religion from here and we could do to spread this one to Genghis.

Okay, in 3240 bc, our 1st warrior is now east of the city and has defeated a lion and a panther on the IT.
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/6927/civ4screenshot0024qs7.jpg
He is now Wood I Warrior ~

And, he's healing, so there's nothing much to do on my last turn. Here's an overview of our lands:
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/914/civ4screenshot0025pz0.jpg
Agriculture is due in 2 and our worker is due in around 5 or so.

Okay, so what should we do after Agriculture? Should we build Stonehenge and head towards Code of Laws naturally? What are everyone's thoughts on the next few sets ~ i'd rather we hash this out before we play more turns.

Roster:
01 Pholkhero >> just played
02 Karr1255 >> UP NOW
03 Robo Kai >> on deck
04 Scowler >>
05 Xerol >>

@ Karr ~ play 15 ~ and you should all play 15 to clear out the roster.

I say after Agriculture, we should go right at Priesthood, build a temple, and run a Priest ASAP, and just make another farm or two for food. Priesthood is also on the path to Oracle, of course, which fits into the plan nicely anyway, but I think with the temple we could get our first GP a lot faster, and therefore have him in reserve for Monotheism, Theology, or another early-mid religion tech. (I don't have the Great Person Tech Lists memorised, but I'm pretty sure we're more likely to get something like Writing than Metal Casting with a Prophet.) We'd need to hand-resesarch Meditation to get anything useful out of the prophet though.

Either way, we should be running a Priest in some way as soon as we can. The question is whether or not it's "cheaper" to run the priest than to spend the extra turns building a wonder (with the would-be priest working a more hammery tile), and it doesn't seem so. 40 hammers vs. 120 for 'Henge definitely seems cheaper at least in the short run, and if we get Henge and Oracle, our first priest would be an "extra" one, and our second would get us CS.

The only thing I can remember is that a GP can be used to research Civil Service, if we have Code of Laws but NOT researched Masonry. Seeing this is a Monarch game, I'd say we need the Pyramids, so this might not be a good idea. Another is to have Monotheism (and Masonry) then get Theology.

Ok, taking a look at the list (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=140952):

Great Prophet:
Meditation
Polytheism
Priesthood
Monotheism
Theology
Divine Right
Mysticism
Code of Laws
Civil Service

The only one that would get "in our way", really, is Theology. We'll need CoL anyway. So how about a 1-2 Prophet Punch (TM)? First prophet (from Priest specialist) grabs Theology, second one grabs CS. Shouldn't be too difficult to pull off if we get Stonehenge, and especially if we get Oracle as well.

So a genericised plan would be this:
-Research: Priesthood, Masonry, Monotheism, then go for worker techs and Writing, and use Oracle for CoL. Maybe slip BW in before Masonry, so we can chop Oracle sooner.
-Building: Invest partly in a settler while priesthood comes in, then swap out to a temple (and grow with the newly farmed corn), then finish the settler, then chop Oracle. (Not sure where to fit 'Henge in here.)
-GPs: Pop one on Theology, second on CS after Oracle->CoL.

Great ideas! Let's see how it all pans out. Hope Karr gets here soon.

Got it. I will play tomorrow.

The plan sounds good so far. But if chasing the oracle won't work i'll skip the masonry tree and then the prophet can pop CoL and the next one civil service. Of course all this changes if we can research CoL ourselves but i guess i have to make that up as i go along.

well, for starters, we need to find neighbors to preach the word to and spread our holy faith. We need to explore as much as possible AND grab the circum nav bonus especially. I like the use of the Great Prophets to pop religions, but if we research Masonry, we won't be able to use the GP for Civil Service.

I say we forego that particular move at this point, and aim instead to out-tech our neighbors.

I think we should go Masonry>Monotheims in hopes to snag Judaism, too. Afterwards, i like the Priesthood>Writing>Alph>CoL w/Bronze Working before or after Priesthood (preferably before i think, no?) Pehaps chop the oracle adn take CoL with it. after all this, we can head towards Optics.

buildwise, i think we need some warriors and settlers, no?

I like the use of the Great Prophets to pop religions, but if we research Masonry, we won't be able to use the GP for Civil Service.

The idea I had was to get TWO early prophets to get both the Masonry tree and Civil Service, but then I realised that it probably won't work on Monarch (at least not easily) because the second GP would probably come out well before we could research CoL. Or not, I'm just not sure.

I don't think we can get judaism, the oracle and still bronzeworking along the way, so i had to make a decision. Here is how it went:

T1 - zzz

T2 - agriculture done -> set research towards priesthood

T3 - zzz

T4 - worker done -> start another warrior

T5 - i spot Khans border to the east

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h233/karr1255/SG04p1.jpg

T6 - zzz

IBT - our Warrior kills a lion

T7 - Khans first archer approaches

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h233/karr1255/SG04p2.jpg

T8 - Delhi grows and the farm completes

IBT - We make contact with mansa. He is usually easy to get along with.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h233/karr1255/SG04p3.jpg

T9 - Priesthood is done and i set research towards bronze working. A. So we can chop the oracle and B. being helpless with Khan next to us seems risky

T10 - Warrior is done and i start a temple but after growth i will switch to a settler

T11 - zzz

T12 - zzz

T13 - Dheli grows and i switched to a settler who is done in 10 turns. The worker build some more mines

IBT - We make contact with the founder of buddhism

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h233/karr1255/SG04p4.jpg


After that nothing happens for the last 2 turns. BW and the settler will both complete in 8 turns, though when the mine is finished the settler will speed up. Then the oracle is ready for chopping.

Forgot the save. :rolleyes:

Got it, will play shortly.
And Mansa Musa is easy to deal with... IF you share the same faith :lol:

Turn 0 (2800 BC):
Seeing all is fair, I let the hands of time do their work.

Turn 1:
Judaism is FIDAL (Founded in Distant A-Land).

Turn 2:
Found Mansa's place north of Delhi.

Turn 3:
GK adopts Slavery.

Turn 4:
Mine finishes. No Bronze Working yet, so build a farm.

Turn 5:
Spotted Mongolia's second city.

Turn 6:
First barbarian warrior spotted near Delhi.
OH PLEASE HAVE BRONZE PLS PLS PLS PLS...

Turn 7:
Barb warrior escapes, doesn't engage Mansa's Skirmisher scouts.
Found Mansa's second city.

Turn 9:
Delhi: Settler -> (delayed Temple) -> Warrior
Broze spotted, but it's in a good city site to the east of Delhi. Move settler slowly, accompanied by guard.
Farm the rice now.
(10 minutes later)
Research: Bronze Working -> Wheel
Reason: NEED BRONZE
Revolt to Slavery for free. Yes, yes, I know we're Gandhi, but we'll reserve the whip for... "extreme circumstances".

Turn 10:
I'm positive the AI is right about the city placement for now.
Settler cautiously advances...

Turn 11:
Found Bombay on recommended site with 2 wine, bronze and cows. Start on Monument.

Turn 12:
Delhi: Warrior -> Hindu Temple
Warrior guards Bombay now.

Turn 13:
Barb Archers spotted now. I fear for the safety of the warriors.
IBT: Warriors prevail!

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/1909/ph0410io2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Turn 14:
Promote immediately to Woodsman II and fortify-heal.

Turn 15 (2080 BC):
I decide to move worker to forest to chop-rush monument. Here's what our empire looks like now:
EDIT: On second thought, instead of chop-rushing the monument, choose to chop-rush a Hindu Temple instead since, I didn't notice that Bombay is now Hindu.

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/4048/ph0411ca6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And here is a diagram of the recently discovered real estate owned by our riv... I mean, brothers.

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/8016/ph0412zd3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

EDIT: I almost forgot THE SAVE:

Got it. Will either play late tonight, or (more likely) tomorrow morning. If anyone has any comments or suggestions, please feel free, and I will check before I start playing.

I really should make more dotmaps. Where can we put a third city?

@Scowler, is your screen name taken from the way the Trantorian's pronounce "scholar" toward the end of the Foundation series?

@Scowler, is your screen name taken from the way the Trantorian's pronounce "scholar" toward the end of the Foundation series?

:eek:

As a matter of fact, yes it is! (among other things) :goodjob:

Just my little tribute to classic sci-fi ;)
Which reminds me, it's been far too long since I last read the Robots and Foundation series... :blush:

Back on topic...
I'm about to play my round, so I should hopefully have the report up later this afternoon.

Okay ~ we'll eagerly await your report.

next city ~ perhaps NW of Delhi near the wheat and cows ~

First of all I vetoed the Monument in Bombay. The city is already generating culture due to the spread of Hinduism, and the borders will have expanded by the time the Monument is completed. So it is not really worth it for 1cpt extra. Instead I start another warrior, which can guard either the city or the copper, or it could be used to escort the next settler.

(1) 2040BC
- Northern warrior goes further into the forest and...


http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/9493/civ4warlords2006091815274059ti6.jpg


...damn, I hate it when that happens. Hopefully the river will even things a bit; I promote to Wood I and cross my fingers.

(2) 2000BC
- The warrior survives to fight another day. Wheel is finished so we switch to Writing. Delhi finishes its Temple so work begins on the Oracle - worker is already in place and begins chopping.


http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/4509/civ4warlords2006091815292732nr8.jpg



(3) 1960BC
- Stonehenge BIFAL. Somebody else will be popping Prophets soon...
- Herodotus publishes his latest page-turner...

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/5831/civ4warlords2006091815310984su8.jpg



~ chop chop chop chop ~


More barbs...


http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/6310/civ4warlords2006091815350653mr6.jpg


...and yet more barbs


http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/5530/civ4warlords2006091815400112mt9.jpg


~ chop chop chop chop ~


(9) 1720BC
- The new warrior is ready at Bombay so he is sent to guard the worker, who has now finished chopping duties and is starting work on the copper mine.


http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/5853/civ4warlords2006091815421368ti3.jpg


(12) 1600BC
- Writing -> Masonry. Oracle due next turn!

(13) 1560BC

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/904/civ4warlords2006091815482182ws9.jpg

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/1136/civ4warlords2006091815490375uv4.jpg

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/4985/civ4warlords2006091815503234tb3.jpg


(15) 1480BC
- Road to copper should be completed next turn so we can start building axes whenever we want.
- Great Prophet due in 3 turns. Note the technology in the picture below. I wasn't paying attention, starting thinking cow without pasture = bad, and switched to AH :wallbash:
Next player please change back to Masonry.


http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/1356/civ4warlords2006091815584810bi8.jpg


- You will also see that a settler is in production. I found a very good possible site while exploring to the south; however, I suppose it would be better to expand northwards first before we get blocked in.


http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/6071/civ4warlords2006091816014553al1.jpg


Overview of the surrounding area and diplomatic status:


http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/8264/civ4warlords2006091816023292hv1.jpg

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/4162/civ4warlords2006091816024160im0.jpg

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/9180/civ4warlords2006091816025800hh1.jpg


~ Save ~ (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/44064/PH04_BC-1480.CivWarlordsSave)

Great moves with the Oracle. Thanks for vetoing the Monument.
With all those religions, we might actually win by culture? Hmmm...

EDIT: Alternative idea: don't get Masonry yet, we can pop Civil Service, if desired. If we get Masonry, we're gonna have to research Monotheism then pop Theo.

EDIT: Alternative idea: don't get Masonry yet, we can pop Civil Service, if desired. If we get Masonry, we're gonna have to research Monotheism then pop Theo.

aargh! Yes! That's probably what made me switch away from Masonry the first time. These Great Person tech preferences always confuse me :crazyeye:

I think using the prophet to pop civil service is the way to go here. Getting CoL via the oracle just sets it up so perfectly.

alright, Oracle, sweet!! I agree w/robo to use the GP for Civil Service so let's not research Masonry. Instead, why don't we go with Alphabet to trade some techs and make nicey-nice with some neighbors. Also, have we taken OB agreements w/any of them yet??

My over-arching strategery was something like: try to be friends w/all but the largest (or 2nd largest) civ, spread our State Religion to them all, and vote ourselves to a Diplo Victory. Thoughts from the group?

FYI...

01 Pholkhero >> on deck
02 Karr1255 >>
03 Robo Kai >>
04 Scowler >> just played
05 Xerol >> UP NOW

That's the plan then. I agree with using GP for CS, and the religious-based Diplo victory strategy.

So... HC probably won't be our rival since there are two others out there bigger than he is (based on the largest civ popup).

alright, anybody else??

@ Xerol ~ have you got it??

remember, too, we get to have one vassal, and a nice thing to do w/a vassal is to raze their cities before they capitulate (esp if you can't afford the maintenance costs) and then the vassal resettles the land ~ this way, their "land size" increases and it makes it harder to lose your vassal from them losign cities.

@ Xerol ~ if you can, let us know your situation re: the save ~ otherwise, i'll play tonight.

Hi guys. This is just to let you know that I currently have a problem with my Civ machine. I'm hoping that it won't take more than 24-48hrs to fix, but this is just to let you know to skip me if my turns come up during that time. I'll keep you informed if it looks like taking longer. Sorry.

thanks for the heads-up, but i can't see us coming back around to you in 2 days though ~ ;)

i've played, but won't be able to report until tomorrow.

my report last night go eaten by the board :( so i'm posting again now

T00/1480:
I move out the Conf Miss from Delhi. I'm thinking that since this is the only Missionary we've got, let's try to spread Confucianism to our neighbors.

T01/1440:
Moving and exploring

T02/1400:
I’m going to send this ConfMiss up to Genghis’ lands since he’s the only missionary we have at this time

T03/1360:
Tipu Sultan (GP) is born.
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/821/civ4screenshot0031ai1.jpg
I send him east for now. I’m thinking perhaps we should build the Conf shrine (?).

Bombay: Hindu Temple(?) > Warrior to defend our new settler once he’s finished; the temple here, I think, might’ve been some :smoke: as we ain’t near the happy limit yet, but it’ll be good to have the extra insurance.

I convert us to Confucianism in anticipation of our new neighbors.

T04/1320:
I dial up our neighbors:
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/4656/civ4screenshot0032fn3.jpg
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/9906/civ4screenshot0033vj5.jpg
Both are kind enough to accept our OB agreements.

Also, i don't know why i have this picture :confused:
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/7383/civ4screenshot0034vo4.jpg
but notice that Ning Hsia has gotten Hinduism :mad: I *think* i converted us back. So much for the Confucian plan.

1320:
T.S. arrives in Bombay.
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/6494/civ4screenshot0035ev6.jpg
I put him to sleep for now. I guess the Hindu shrine may be teh way to go now.

T05/1280:
Bombay: Warrior > Settler

T06/1240:
AH comes due, and I head for Pottery next to get some cottages up. We're going to need, if not the tech lead, *some* sort of tech edge in order to trade and keep some friends.

T07/1200:
Our warrior is moving NW to the new city site and the settler should be done shortly.

Here's an overview of our empire:
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/9590/civ4screenshot0037of8.jpg

I stopped at 7 to even up the turn count. I'm not sure exactly what the number is, but it ended in 7 when i started so :D

I think we should focus on Alphabet and Sailing in the near term in order to a)trade w/our neighbors, and b)to actually MEET our neighbors. As I said earlier, I think getting to Caravels rather quickly and nabbing the circum nav bonus will be a GREAT thing :goodjob:

hopefully this link will work (http://www.dmcconkey.com/civ4/uploads/PH04%20BC-1200.CivWarlordsSave)

Pholkhero >> just played
Karr1255 >> UP NOW
Robo Kai >> on deck
Scowler >>

Xerol >> awol?

Got the save and will play later today.

Pre turn - Moved GP to hindu holy city

T1 - Build the shrine and switch to hinduism. It's further spread and it improves relations with Ghenkis. Also we benefit from the +2 great priest points in the right city.

T2 - zzz

T3 - Madras found on the spot and it starts a library. Thanks to the shrine we still get +1 gold at 100% research

T4 - zzz

T5 - Pottery comes in and i start meditation. So that we can build monasteries and spread the faith. Remember that we can't get masonry or our plan to pop CS is over.

T6 - zzz

T7 - Settler done and I move him 1W of the Gold to our south

T8 - Barracks done in Delhi. Maybe not necessary but there was nothing to build for a few turns

T9 - Huayna builds the Great Wall. And I settle Bangalore, our 4th city, next to the gold.

http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/5521/cityw23vz3.th.jpg (http://img461.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cityw23vz3.jpg)

T10 - Meditation is in and research set towards CS. The next Prophet spawns in 4 turns and although I don't know the correct numbers he won't give us the whole tech. But the next player can change that since no beakers are invested. Bombay finished an Axeman on this turn and starts a Hindu monastary. We still need to convert Mansa and our 3rd and 4th city also lack Hinduism. We still only have 1 worker, I suggest Delhi starts one after growth (aligned with the finish of a granary ;)).

Sweet! it looks like we're still only losing 2 gpt @ 100% ~ gotta love shrine income.

I agree, too, on teh future game plan. Get another worker out @ Delhi (perhaps with the help of the whip), and then let's start working on spreading the One True Faith ;) It may be good to have one city focus on missionaries for awhile to convert the entire continent. We can have one other city work on missionaries to spread the faith to OUR cities.

also, while we are waiting for the GP to pop, perhaps we should think about researching towards Sailing ~ we may be able to get fishing while we wait

FYI:
Pholkhero >>
Karr1255 >> just played
Robo Kai >> UP NOW
Scowler >> on deck
Xerol >> not awol; i gave him leave by not updating the roster, but back in business

I already had a similar city specilization in mind: Delhi has a barracks and can build some military after a worker. Bombay is now starting on the monastery and can get out some missionaries. Hinduism has already spread a little more in Khans territory on its own.

Well, remember that the AI almost always swaps to the first religion to get inside their borders. So, Phase 1 would be to get Hinduism to one city in each neighbour. Phase 2 would be to spread it to our own cities, so all cities can eventually (with OrgRel) build missionaries. Phase 3 would be to flood the AIs with missionaries. It may help to build a missionary "outpost" near or on the other side of the AIs just for the purpose of quickly moving missionaries to their targets, as we can only have 3 at a time, and any time we have 3 moving, we can't be building any more.

The sailing plan sounds like a good one - we could go for Optics after CS and get some Caravels out to quickly move missionaries to coastal cities.

It may help to build a missionary "outpost" near or on the other side of the AIs just for the purpose of quickly moving missionaries to their targets, as we can only have 3 at a time, and any time we have 3 moving, we can't be building any more.

The sailing plan sounds like a good one - we could go for Optics after CS and get some Caravels out to quickly move missionaries to coastal cities.
I never thought of a MissOutpost, but that's a grand idea; boy i'm glad i PM'ed you :goodjob: :)

Optics and Missionary-laden caravels sound good to me, too.

For the religion spread:

We have 3 civs with us:
A. Ghenkis - already a die hard hindu
B. Huayna - founder of Buddhism so he won't change anytime soon
C. Mansa - doesn't have a state religion

So we really only have to send one to mansa and everyone is happy. And I couldn't go towards org. religion because we need to burn the next great prophet on civil service first.

I know, but just as a future plan. And we need to find a way into Huayna's pants territory, and convince him that Hinduism is better before all of his cities are Buddhist.

I was actually ruminating on the possiblity of HC being our one and only Vassal state. Might be able to get a 3v1 war going on w/our Hindu brothers.

This is the "I got it" post.

Missionary outpost eh? Let's see. How soon should we go for optics?

Pre-turn (875 BC)
I don't veto Civil Service.

Turn 2:
The Temple of Artemis has been built...

Turn 4:
Use prophet on CS... 3 turns left.

Turn 5:
Delhi grows to size 6
Delhi: Granary -> Fast Worker
(I can't believe we only have one for our 4 cities!)
Gold hooked up, start cottage in Bangalore flood plains

Turn 7:
Research: Civil Service -> Alphabet (... -> Lit?)
Revolt to Civil ServiceBureaucracy for free
Bombay: Hindu Monastery -> Hindu Missionary

Turn 8:
Babarians spotted approaching Delhi... move Delhi warriors to hill...
Mansa converts to Hindu

Turn 9:
IBT: Warriors dead.

Turn 10:
Delhi: Fast Worker -> Axeman (2 turns)
Move new Fast Worker to Madras to improve it
Start another cottage at Bangalore

That's it for now. Here's a screenshot of our "babarian problems". Don't we have Archery or something yet... ok maybe not. I guess Bronze Working will do for now... ho hum... :mischief:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/73311/PH04-barbproblems.JPG

thankfully, too, it looks like it'll take 2 even if the barb comes straight us. Good that units get built before the AI takes their turn!

nice playing, but i couldn't tell if you revolted to Bureaucracy or not ~ did you?

Alpha was a good move, but maybe we should head down the lower part of the tech tree after it comes in for a bit towards Optics for now. Anybody else have an opinion??

oh, and, maybe ARchery too :lol:

Roothter:
Pholkhero >>
Karr1255 >>
Robo Kai >> just played
Scowler >> UP NOW
Xerol >> on deck

Please see turn 7. Sorry, typo. :lol:

Alpha -> Compass -> Optics is OK then.

This will likely let us trade (techs at least) with civs across the ocean?

I should probably mention (I had problems with this in the Culture game) that when my turns come up on weekends, I usually can't get to them immediately.

I should be able to play this tomorrow.

I should be able to play this tomorrow.
Looks like that works out for Xerol, too ~ just remember the song:

"Why can't we be friends,
why can't we be friends.
Why can't we be friends,
why can't -- we be friends!"

All appears well within the nation of India so I just press turn.

(1) 600BC
- Pyramids BIFAL
- Bombay: missionary -> missionary
- As MM and Genghis now have Hinduism in their lands I send the new missionary south to Bangalore so that he can help pop the borders and grab the stone.
- UGH! There is now a barb city north of Madras. Madras is defended by just a single warrior at present, which could be a problem if the barbs start sending archers. I'm going to prioritise building a road to the river so that the city will have access to copper and be able to build axes ASAP.


http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/3104/civ4warlords2006092402025710dp5.jpg


(2) 575BC
- Barb warrior dies trying to attack Madras
- Delhi: axe -> axe
- Mansa's skirmisher very kindly takes care of the other annoying barbarian warrior before it can either attack Delhi or pillage the corn. As there is no longer any urgent need for it in the capital I send the newly trained axeman off to defend Madras. A new axe will be ready at Delhi in 3 turns so there is no danger.
- Genghis's demeanor has now improved to Pleased, thanks to Hinduism. However, we have also picked up a -1 from having close borders...


http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/3666/civ4warlords2006092402115656rr3.jpg


(3) 550BC
- Our missionary spreads Hinduism in Bangalore

(4) 525BC
- Bombay: missionary -> missionary
- The new missionary is sent to Madras

(5) 500BC
- Delhi: axe -> worker (we need more of these!)
- Parthenon BIFAL
- Hinduism spreads to Gao - that's one less missionary needed!


http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/9281/civ4warlords2006092402194348qj0.jpg


(6) 475BC
- Hinduism spreads to Madras just before the missionary arrives, so I send him further north towards Timbuktu instead


http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/2514/civ4warlords2006092402242418pe3.jpg


(7) 450BC
- The Great Wall of Inca blocks the way ahead for our intrepid warrior...


http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/7836/civ4warlords2006092402292684qd5.jpg


(8) 425BC
- Delhi: worker -> axe
- Bombay: missionary -> settler
- The missionary is sent to the Mongolian city east of Bombay. We should be able to take a break from missionarying for a bit so the axe is intended as an escort for the settler, once it is ready.
- Alphabet is completed, so it is time to do some trading. We need Fishing and Sailing before we can consider Compass, so I just make one small trade now so that Sailing will available next turn when I do the bulk of my haggling.


http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5116/civ4warlords2006092402401340vn9.jpg


There is no point researching Sailing since I am planning to grab it next turn; instead I put a turn's worth of research towards Literature, just in case we want to go for GL.

(9) 400BC
- Time to see what else I can pick up from our neighbours:


http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1931/civ4warlords2006092402422860xp1.jpg

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/7280/civ4warlords2006092402430332vi5.jpg


Iron Working reveals that we have Iron west of Delhi, inside the BFC. I halt work on the proposed cottage and send the worker to build an iron mine instead.


http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5540/civ4warlords2006092402432884xt3.jpg


HC appears to be the only one on the continent who has Monotheism (I checked again the following turn) and he won't trade with us ("we just don't like you enough"), so I've set research to this so that we can switch to OrgRel for missionaries and faster buildings.
- Library is whipped at Madras
- Granary is whipped at Bangalore

(10) 375BC
- Madras: Library -> Granary
- Bangalore: Granary -> Axeman
- One of our missionaries spreads Hinduism in Old Sarai. Note that Genghis will have access to Iron once the borders here expand...


http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/2731/civ4warlords2006092402551557mf1.jpg


Our other missionary is still on the way north so please finish guiding him to Timbuktu...


http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/9782/civ4warlords2006092402544300ju2.jpg


This is the current tech situation:


http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/4838/civ4warlords2006092402573062hl5.jpg


Save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/44064/PH04_BC-0375.CivWarlordsSave)

Some additional comments:

- Genghis has now dropped to Cautious, even though our "score" with him has remained the same. This could be a cause for concern, especially since he will have access to Iron soon (HC has it already), and has two horses within his borders for building Keshiks. According to the diplomatic chart he dislikes Mansa more than us, but we are (of course) the least powerful of his neighbours so he might view us as an easy target as he runs out of space to expand.


http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/4926/civ4warlords2006092402574457cq8.jpg

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/7003/civ4warlords2006092402595850fs3.jpg

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4374/civ4warlords2006092403023385yr6.jpg


Alternatively, the fact he views Mansa as his worst enemy might lead to him demanding we break off contact - a difficult choice if we are hoping to unite these guys for a diplomatic victory, since we will get a long-term malus from Mansa if we agree and a possible drop in relations from Genghis (making war more likely?) if we refuse.

On the other hand, there is definitely bad blood between Mansa and HC; perhaps a war is more likely there instead. With a bit of luck it will slow HC down a bit, since he has been doing better than we would like:


http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/2511/civ4warlords2006092403001085jj5.jpg


We have had quite some success in spreading Hinduism about, but Judaism is still the dominant religion in the world. I guess we'd better get out there exploring soon...


http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/8412/civ4warlords2006092403310060qs7.jpg

Good turns.

We'll have to cross our fingers w/Genghis for now, but i think we should back him in any war w/Mansa, unfortunately; he looks to be the bigger empire at present.

I think expansion and cranking out some defense may be the order of the day for now, no?

Pholkhero >> on deck
Karr1255 >>
Robo Kai >>
Scowler >> just played
Xerol >> UP NOW

@ Xerol: have you got it??

I'm at work right now, I'll get it when I get home (about 3 hours).

that's fine. I'm up in about 4 or 5 SGs now, so take your time :nod:

Turn 0 (375 BC): I look over the situation a bit. I take a screenshot, alt-tab to paste it into IrfanView, and Civ crashes. This has been happening more and more frequently as of late, mostly when exiting to menu after pitboss games. Never had it happen in singleplayer though. Until now, at least.

Anyway, I picked a potential city site for that settler that's due out. It'll keep the Mongols from expanding further into our area. I also noticed a bit of a worker shortage, so I'm probably going to order up a few more during my turns.

I'll post more after I reboot, since that seems to solve the crash problem.

Turn 0 (375 BC) (Continued):
http://h.xerol.org/i/t/3p.png (http://h.xerol.org/i.php?i=301)

With the floodplains tile farmed, it'll have plenty of food to work as a general city site (you could chop/mine the hill for decent production, and cottage everything else).

Turn 1 (350 BC):
Axeman comes in Delhi, dial up another. We might lose one or two taking that barb city, but it's a good site, so we'll need spares. And anyway, you can't have Too Many Axes.

Timbuktu goes Hindu.

Turn 2 (325 BC):
Madras expands, revealing 3 archers in the barb city. Worker goes to make steak.

Turn 3 (300 BC):
Monotheism comes in. I set to Currency - we're going to have at least 2 new cities soon (the one at my proposed site, and the barb city), and are only pulling +3/turn at 100%. The reserves should keep us at 100% until we can get currency in, but a Market in our shrine city would certainly help, and +1 trade routes (with all these open borders) means more commerce in ALL cities.

We go to OrgRel, as does Mansa (must've discovered simultaneously).

Turn 4 (275 BC):
Nothing eventful.

Turn 5 (250 BC):
Set a worker on some roads. Both of our main cities are going to build workers after they grow in pop, but between rough terrain and long distances, the roads will definitely help move things along regardless of our choice of actions - faster missionaries, as well as faster military.

Turn 6 (225 BC):
Zzzz.

Turn 7 (200 BC):
More zzzzz.

Turn 8 (175 BC):
Someone else gets a lighthouse. I send Delhi's new worker down to hook up stone.

Turn 9 (150 BC):
Prophet born in Delhi. I sleep him for now, as his actions should be discussed. Right now, he can research Theology, thanks to us getting Monotheism. I think we can also assume everyone else has Monotheism right now (by everyone else, I mean those on the other continent). The only real purpose of it would be for denial purposes, since the fewer religions available elsewhere, the easier it'll be to spread ours.

Turn 10 (125 BC):
More zzzzz.

One worrying thing in general: There's a few skirmishers outside of the Barbarian city:
http://h.xerol.org/i/skirmishers.jpg (http://h.xerol.org/i.php?i=302)

They've taken out one archer, but both are wounded, indicating previous combat. We've got 2 axes sitting on the cows, as well as one in the city; that should probably be enough to take it, although I'd feel safer with a fourth axe, just in case.

And the save: PH04 BC-0125.CivWarlordsSave (http://h.xerol.org/f.php?f=170)

nice going ~ hopefully they won't just send units into the fray there and keep promoting those archers, but we'll have to cross our fingers. With it being so close to....is that a Mongolian city?...it may be crushed, but could be worth it for elephants and the sugar.

I definitely agree on keeping Theology and Christianity for ourselves. I see the save, but most likely will NOT play tonight as this makes 5 for me i think.

Yeah, I was thinking we could take it just so the AI wouldn't. Obviously it would need some chopping to be useful, but it'd make a nice cottage spam site. (It's all grassland, no hills.)

I think we definitely need more ROADS. Those axes were taking twice as long as they could've been to get up there; if we had roads already in place, we'd probably have the city by now. I admit I'm guilty of spamming roads where they're not needed, but we need at MINIMUM a network between all cities.

Tech-wise: It looks like we'll have a monopoly on Currency when it comes in, and if we go down towards Optics next, we'll probably have monopolies on Metal Casting and following techs.

I'm surprised Madras still doesn't have much improvements... besides roads.

And we're still at 100% so are we on the way to building the next big settler?

playing. :goodjob:

Consider this a pre got it. If I get the save today I will play it tonight.

Consider this a pre got it. If I get the save today I will play it tonight.
the best "where's the report" post ever :lol:

t00/125 bc:
350 turns left. I MM'ed a bit in our cities for growth. I also used the GP to bulb Theology.
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6493/civ4screenshot0009tl2.jpg
Madras became the Christian holy city and i send the missionary over to Delhi. In retrospect, i wish i had waited until later on in the set. You'll see why.

t01/100:
Bombary: worker > granary

Christianity spreads in Delhi w/the Missionary.
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2615/civ4screenshot0010gi8.jpg

t02/75:
Delhi: Library > Settler

t03/50:
Uh oh! Danger will robinson.
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/459/civ4screenshot0012yw4.jpg
Bad news for us, potentially, but I *do* have settler in production. :D

t04/25:
Currency comes in, and i head for Metal Casting thinking we should head for Machinery next for the Xbows, the Compass>Optics (as of now, ~ 45 turns)

Bombay: Granary > Confucian Temple

Genghis is making headway:
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/3168/civ4screenshot0014en8.jpg

I also send in our 2 axes now that Shangian has grown to pop2. Luckily, there's still only one archer.
The first archer loses:
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/8972/civ4screenshot0015fr2.jpg
but the next one wins adn the city is ours. And now i wish i had waited to pop Theology until we had taken this. It would've probably been the holy city. Oh well.

t05/1 AD:
Nothing exciting.

t06/25:
Our new settler is sent north to the ruins of Gao. We'll use Malinese skulls as our floormats :mischief:

t07/50 - t08/75:
Nothing.

t09/100ad:
Well, what i've been waiting for happens:
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/371/civ4screenshot0016ab1.jpg

"Hey, my name's Paul, and this sh1t's between ya'll." Though, i did dial up Genghis to see if he would end the war. "Na ga do it (not gonna do it)."

t10/125:
what a bizarre ending date for 340 turns. We're at 60% now, too, losing 1 gpt.

I found Lahore on the site of old Gao. You can see it in the overview pic here:
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2861/civ4screenshot0017os6.jpg

Okay, I built a few more missionaries, and one or two is one their way north to MM's unconverted cities.

I'm not sure what the war btwn Genghis and Mansa will hold for us, but i think we should try to maintain the balance of power or try to focus the destructive energies of Khan to Huayna.

Pholkhero >> just played
Karr1255 >> UP NOW and he's already got it
Robo Kai >> on deck
Scowler >>
Xerol >>

I've got your "pre-got-it" right here ;) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85326/PH04_AD-0125.CivWarlordsSave)

Well, well now we have a city sandwiched between the Mongols and the Mali... not that it's bad but... :mischief:

It doesn't really matter at this point where the holy cities are, because we won't get culture for them as long as we have a state religion. Unless there was some other reason you wanted the holy city there.

pre turn - Trade poly and currency to Ghenkis for archery, calendar and 130 gold.

T1 - Building up some infrastructure

T2 - zzz

T3 - Compass is done and I set research to literature because it only takes 3 turns and the GL can be build in 15.

T4 - Bombay completes barracks and I start an archer. Our military is thin to non existant.

T5 - Building some improvements

T6 - Literature in and I go for metal casting(6turns). Delhi completes the market and starts the GL(14turns).

T7 - Look who comes asking for free stuff

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/6012/1mq1.jpg

I refuse. Even if he would declare war, which would take some time, we would have Ghenkis as buffer. And he would be willing to stop trading with Huayna for some techs.

T8 - Delhi grows and with some MM the GL is down to 9 turns.

T9 - With stagnating Delhi I shave another turn off the GL - now down to 7.

T10 - On my final turn this happens Ghenkis asks to join in the war. I decline of course and we get -1 with him. Well who saw that coming. :rolleyes:




In other news Lahore is under a little bit of pressure. :lol:

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/5949/2dt5.jpg

T3 - Optics is done and I set research to literature because it only takes 3 turns and the GL can be build in 15.

How did we get Optics before Metal Casting?

Ahem, that was compass of course.:crazyeye:

This is the pick up and play.

Turn 0:
Huayna Capac has units in Genghis' territory AND has enough on his hands right now. Hmm... suspicious.

Turn 1:
Research: MC -> Mac
Timbuktu is a friggin' desert now :lol:

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/3544/ph0420ff0.jpg

IBT: AXEMAN near Bangalore guarding the stone: on a HILL, FORTIFIED dies to a Barbarian Archer!!! WHAT!!! [pissed]

Turn 2:
Bombay: Courthouse -> Axeman to replace the dead guy
Archer kills Barbarian Archer... hmph, lucky bastard.
Start cottaging Shangian and mining Bangalore.

Turn 3:
:hammer:

Turn 4:
Madras: Aqueduct -> Fast Worker
Bangalore: Harbor -> Courthouse

(PAUSE!)

We can build Hanging Gardens in Madras for 12 turns. Also what do we build next in the capital after Great Lib?

In case you haven't finished already. Hanging Gardens is worth a shot at this early date. Maybe we could still build it in Delhi to concentrate the GPP. Otherwise I'd let Delhi build some crossbows once machinery is done.

Sorry Karr it was a while and I went ahead and started it in Madras. :D

I've decided build HG anyway since it's only 12 turns, and it's not even our capital and we could still use the money if we lose it. Capital would've been faster (3 turns for 'duct and 6 for gardens) though.

Turn 4:
Madras: -> Hanging Gardens
Reinforce Calcutta with troops from Bombay since it's the new border town.

I sign this deal and convert to Monarchy for free.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/73311/PH04-2-1.JPG

Turn 5:
Delhi: Great Lib -> National Epic
Bombay: Axeman -> Spearman (I noticed we have none and Genghis has all those horses...)
Moved new Axeman to Bangalore to replace the guy that died.

EDIT: GK has signed pease with Mansa. I check... he won't declare war on Inca but he will stop trading if we pay him CoL. I'll wait for the next player and team vote if they wish to pay GK to stop trading.

Turn 6:
We have found a source of Gold near Delhi!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/73311/PH04-2-4.JPG

Turn 7:
HC declared war, shows up with a stack of Chariot and Archer at Calcutta.
Axeman defeats Chariot
Axeman defeats Archer

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/73311/PH04-2-2.JPG
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/73311/PH04-2-3.JPG

Turn 8:
:hammer:

Turn 9:
Bombay: Spearman -> Spearman

Turn 10:
:hammer:

Screenshot of the warfront:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/73311/PH04-2-5.JPG

In hindsight, maybe I should've gone for either HG in the capital like Karr advised or Sistine. But at least we have gold. :mischief:

SAVE:

too bad about HC, but it doesn't look like he's that much of a threat . . . yet. It might be nice to get the Inca as our one vassal in the future, but if we have to, we could take out Mali to get to Huayna.

I hope i don't regret settling Lahore there, but i was thinking we'd be able to push back once we get some culture buildings running there. Hopefully that'll pan out.

Pholkhero >>
Karr1255 >>
Robo Kai >> just played
Scowler >> UP NOW
Xerol >> on deck

I see this as a chance to push some of our religion up there.

I must clarify a typo I made in turn 5, it's supposed to read:

Genghis has signed peace with Mansa. I check... Genghis won't declare war on Huayna yet but he will stop trading if we pay him CoL. I'll wait for the next player and team vote if we wish to pay GK to stop trading.

If Huayna doesn't have open borders with Mansa this would complete seal up the borders. So this might be good if we want to stop the war.

maybe if someone else gets CoL soon, we should take that deal w/Genghis. if not, forget it. Let's not forget the unexplored reaches.

Huayna founded his own religion so he most likely will NOT convert. Let's keep Genghis and Mansa fully Hindu and keep their focus on HC w/trade embargos and war if possible.

My turn's gonna come on the weekend again, isn't it.

Huayna founded his own religion so he most likely will NOT convert. Let's keep Genghis and Mansa fully Hindu and keep their focus on HC w/trade embargos and war if possible.

If we decide to take an offensive stance during this war, we might want to just concentrate on getting his Holy City (probably his capital). This depends on the geography, of course, but if there's one objective that would help us towards our goals, that would be it.

Got it and will try to bring it back quickly so that Xerol has a chance to play it before the weekend. Actually, Xerol, it might be easier for both of us if we swap. Would you like to play first? I will wait to hear.

I'm assuming since Xerol said nothing that he hasn't played - in which case this is now an official got-it.

If we decide to take an offensive stance during this war, we might want to just concentrate on getting his Holy City (probably his capital). This depends on the geography, of course, but if there's one objective that would help us towards our goals, that would be it.i didn't even *think* of razing the holy city! what a brilliant manuver!

@ Scowler, take your time this weekend then ~ so long as you post by Sunday adn then we'll let Xerol pick it up on Monday

Well, we don't have to raze it. If we capture it then open borders with HC (...somehow... via capitulation, maybe?) then we can still convert HC.

I still won't be able to play until late Monday, but I can give strategic advice from the corporate fortress in Delaware.

Capitulation would be nice, but I've found that vassals tend to move to Theocracy like magnets to...opposite-poled magnets? Erm, kinda lost the analogy there. Anyway, that's the problem. We'd also need Feudalism, which wouldn't be a bad idea anyway because Longbows are never a bad idea.

HC's favorite civic is Theocracy..? Well, he does switch to it often.

HC's favorite civic is Theocracy..? Well, he does switch to it often.

I meant Vassals in general. Then again, if he was our vassal, we wouldn't really need to convert him.

There was some very bad :smoke: in this turnset, so I apologise in advance for that...

(0) 580AD
- Why is Delhi stagnant when it can grow, produce more commerce, and keep the same build time??
- On the other hand, Bombay is about to grow into unhealthiness when a priest can be hired to slow growth, but give us a faster build time and more commerce.
- I check our rivals to see what deals are available. I did a trade with Mansa to get Feudalism. The screenshot didn't come out, but I think I gave him CoL and Literature for it (he also gave us some money). NB: this doesn't affect our relationship with Genghis.
- Genghis now expects both CoL and Theo to go to war with HC. No chance! - at least not while HC's troops remain noticeable absent.
- However, I'm very alarmed by our lack of defence and general military unreadiness. Since we now have Feudalism I switch Delhi from Nat Epic to longbow (only takes 2 turns). Also, Calcutta gets switched from Lib to Walls (takes the same time as Axe, but we don't have a barracks and it is probably more useful in case of attack).
- Not sure what the earlier comments about Hanging Gardens were. It is still available in 8 turns (though some micromanaging brings it down to 7).
- Library whipped at Shangrian for 1 pop.
- Finally, I veto the courthouse at Lahore in favour of a monastery, which seems to be the cheapest available way of getting culture at the moment. The city is in dire straits due to cultural pressure and lack of food: as soon as they are available I will get some workers to chop some jungle into farmland.


http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/1223/civ4warlords2006100107420837pl2.jpg


(1) 600AD
- Hmm, I see we are still down Construction on everybody else, but I don't want to give more tech to Mansa when we can research it ourselves in about 4-5 turns.
- Shangrian: Library -> Longbow

(2) 620AD
- Delhi: Longbow -> Longbow
- Workers start clearing jungle / building a farm near Lahore.

(3) 640AD
- Machinery -> Optics
- Bombay: Longbow -> Worker - we still seem to have too few of these...
- Hanging Gardens BIFAL - dammit! But at least we get 193g from it.

(4) 660AD
Delhi: Longbow -> Nat Epic

(5) 680AD
- Sh*t! We have incoming...!


http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/8756/civ4warlords2006100108345775nf5.jpg


Um... let's see...
- Wall in Calcutta will be finished before the enemy arrives - no problem there
- Bombay's longbow is sent to Calcutta; the worker is put on hold in favour of a mace
- Archer in Calcutta is upgraded to a longbow
- Both axemen in Calcutta are upgraded to maces
Boy, am I glad we lost the Hanging Gardens now!

(6) 700AD
- Bangalore: Courthouse -> Longbow
- Calcutta: Walls -> Crossbow
- Great Profit born in Delhi. He gets sent up towards Madras ready to build the Christian Shrine. (Lightbulb = +1066 towards Divine Right)
- Farm at Lahore is finished, and the city can grow at last. Workers can do other stuff for a while and then come back and build another farm later. Oh, and I also sent a spare longbow up there for extra defense.


http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/3687/civ4warlords2006100108470534ov2.jpg


(7) 720AD
- HC is ready to attack next turn...


http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/9343/civ4warlords2006100108525871gs0.jpg


I start to panic at the odds and dial up Genghis, who of course is only too willing to make this deal with me:


http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/4852/civ4warlords2006100108533896vi7.jpg


:smoke: :smoke: :smoke:

Yep, not only is Calcutta now well-defended with walls and a 50% culture bonus, but HC's troops are now right outside the walls in our territory, so will not be affected by this deal anyway. :wallbash:
Still, at least this will prevent him sending any other units our way, right? Right? Hmm...

(8) 740AD
- HC attacks, using only his chariots: 2 withdraw, and 2 are killed. We suffer no losses and one of our longbows gets promoted to City Defense II. I also whip a crossbow, just for overkill.

(9) 760AD
- Optics -> Construction
- Taoism FIDAL!!
- HC attacks Calcutta again. This time he uses a chariot and a longbow and ends up losing both. Our other longbow is promoted to CDII. However, there are now more Incan forces on the way.


http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/8778/civ4warlords2006100109074607vf6.jpg


WHAT??? I thought we'd blocked that avenue?? Look closely at the picture: there is a gap in the cultural borders between Genghis's cities, and between Genghis's and Mansa's territories further north, and HC can simply move his troops through... Sorry, guys, it seems I gave Genghis Theology for just 10g and no benefit to us at all :smoke:

(10) 780AD
- Madras: Mace -> Caravel
- Bangalore: Longbow -> Lighthouse

(11) 800AD
:coffee: mercifully

- I inadvertently played 11 turns, but it takes us to a nice round number anyway. Construction is due next turn, as is the National Epic in Delhi.
- Workers are now in place to build a second farm for Lahore.
NB: We really do need some more workers, so please build some when you have a free slot.
- The Great Prophet is now ready in Madras for some shrine action...
- I've left a mace active; I recommend leaving him in place until we know which way HC is going to jump - either towards Calcutta or towards Bombay and the copper.


http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/6268/civ4warlords2006100109224415cm8.jpg


- Also worth noting: there are various trades we could make with Genghis, including getting him to declare war on HC


http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/8457/civ4warlords2006100109235587js9.jpg

Or maybe he'd just prefer some flea powder...


However, after screwing up with the borders I decided to leave this one to better minds than mine.
On the plus side, we have not lost any units so far. Hopefully, things will stay that way!

Save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/44064/PH04_AD-0800.CivWarlordsSave)

I must say you did defend Calcutta well despite things not entirely going our way :thumbsup:

I have a weird idea. We could reasearch Drama... this will not only let Lahore expand its borders (by building culture) but also we can give that+gold to GK instead for war on HC. And hopefully he'll build some theaters to seal up his borders. :lol:

Bombay is about to grow into unhealthiness

I don't really see anything wrong with growing into unhealthiness, as long as the city can afford to feed him, because lost growth is still lost growth, no matter how slow that growth is. And Genghis has Bananas for trade, while we have a couple of other surplus resources - that would've been a nice trade to improve relations and help the health situation.

With HC sending mounted units at us, we could probably use a couple of spearmen, and researching towards Engineering would be a good idea now that we have machinery - Castles might come in useful in a few places (since we already have walls, and stone), Trebs (and catapults) would be nice for the offensive move, the extra road movement never hurts, and should he decide to send more mounted troops, we should set up some mace/pike/catapult units to play whack-a-stack on the border. Those'll be the goals of my set, which I might actually be able to play later today.

Also, now that we have Optics, did we start building any Caravels? We should load up a couple of missionaries on boats and send them out. Due to build times, that'll probably be the next person's move.

i hope we sent some caravels out or are about to. and, Xerol, you're the "next person" whose move you speak off:
Also, now that we have Optics, did we start building any Caravels? We should load up a couple of missionaries on boats and send them out. Due to build times, that'll probably be the next person's move. :lol:

are you able to play soon?

I didn't post it here yet but I'm gone until next saturday. So just skip me next round.

i hope we sent some caravels out or are about to. and, Xerol, you're the "next person" whose move you speak off:
:lol:

Also, now that we have Optics, did we start building any Caravels? We should load up a couple of missionaries on boats and send them out. Due to build times, that'll probably be the next person's move.

are you able to play soon?


I meant the next person after me. I did say:

Those'll be the goals of my set, which I might actually be able to play later today.

Didn't get a chance to play Civ until now, and I'm just going to have enough time to play my pitboss turns tonight. I'll play tomorrow morning if I can sneak my Warlords disc into work tomorrow, or tomorrow afternoon otherwise.

That's fine ~ i'm getting UP NOW in more than a few games so take your time (but not too much time :D )

I'm trying to find a working mouse; mine didn't fare too well in the trunk coming back from the conference. My touchpad works but it's terrible for civ (too many accidental clicks). If I can't find one I WILL play later tonight with the touchpad.

Turnset Disclaimer: I've had a beer or three, and am using a touchpad.

Turn 0 (800 AD): Sizing up the situation a bit. We're going to probably look some roads, but that's acceptable. The main goal here is to just ward off their current attack and then prepare for a surgical strike at the Buddhist holy city.

Turn 1 (820 AD): We lose some roads. Construction is in, as is Nat'l epic. I set on path to Engineering, since we'll definitely need those trebs to knock out a holy city capital, and the road movement can't hurt. Due in 11. Start up some catapults where available. I think we'd get 1gpt from the Christian shrine, so I sleep him temporarily. He can give us about 60% of Divine Right, but we can't divert research to finish it right now, and a GA might be handy soon too, so I hold on to him. If someone decides to spread the cross later on, we'll almost certainly have more prophets to do it with.

Turn 2 (840 AD): I notice we're running a gold surplus, so I bump the slider up to 80%. -6/turn, but due in 8 now. I move a freshly created Mace to protect the copper, which is currently being menaced by 2 axes and 2 longbows. It has 3 of our maces on it.

Turn 3 (860 AD): I whack one of the axe/bow pairs for experience. The other "stack" is on top of a town, with no support close enough, so we're going to lose some of that cottage growth.

Turn 4 (880 AD): Caravel completes and I send it out on a great journey. I try to whack the other stack, and lose the first mace at 80-some percent odds. The other two clean up nicely though.

Turn 5 (900 AD): Some unit shuffling. Once the catapults reach Calcutta, that stack is history. Then, it's WHACKING TIME.

Turn 6 (920 AD): Stack is history. I start organising two stacks - one in Calcutta, one in Lahore. We may have to whack one or two intermediate cities in order to get to the holy city. Maybe Paper (6 turns) would've been a good tech choice.

So, here's the Great Plan:
http://h.xerol.org/i/t/44.png (http://h.xerol.org/i.php?i=318)

(Note: This has nothing to do with my inebrieation; I can't draw a straight line in paint sober. Even with the line tool.)

The Red Team goes up through Lahore and whacks that unpronouncable incan city. The blue stack out of Calcutta first explores, then sets up a base near the capital. This will consist of two piles, each with a medic 1 unit in it (and Medic 2 if they get promoted, to support our advancing troops). The idea is to get in, capture or raze (I'm in favor of capturing, only for the shrine income), and then make peace.

Turn 7 (940 AD): Promote a few units, set up to heal, caravel still hasn't seen land.

Turn 8 (960 AD): More shuffling. I sent a missionary to our Caravel city to put it in the caravel that's about to be popped next turn (so our second caravel can spread the religion to the first civ we get OB with).

Turn 9 (980 AD): Caravel finds land!

http://h.xerol.org/i/t/45.png (http://h.xerol.org/i.php?i=319)

He's happy to sign OB, but he's the founder of Judaism, so conversion isn't going to be easy. I didn't sign OB yet, so we don't unintentionally piss off any other AIs that we haven't met yet; I'll leave the intercontinental deals to the next player.

Turn 10 (1000AD): Engineering in, start on Paper. No beakers in that yet, but I think we need it for SEVERAL reasons:
-Get other continent maps (we have a significant tech lead, from the looks of things)
-Get Incan maps
-University of Sankore goes well with religious variant (although we have almost no monestaries, we need to get on those before SciMeth becomes a factor, especially on our less-spread religions).

That's all folks!

Summary:
-Incan forces dispatched at the cost of 1 maceman and a suicide catapult (cats are cheap, the capital's putting out 2 every 3 turns if it just makes catapults).
-Egypt found.
-Yuengling is a good beet.

Save:
PH04 AD-1000.CivWarlordsSave (http://h.xerol.org/f.php?f=173)

I must commend your good English inspite of having beers. That's amazing! Most people can't even spell after a couple of shots.

Good turns! I wonder where you live if you can get Yuengling ~

Let's not get too bogged down by war, though. We wouldn't be able to hold just one incan city against the other two civs culture (see, i learn from my mistakes!) Do we have feudalism? if so, i suggest going in there and razing things from head to toe and forcing a capitulation. this will neuralize that threat and get a bit more land for our neighbors ~ maybe ease up the conflict-pressure a bit, eh?

any thoughts?

Won't vassalizing Capac make it all the harder to win via diplomacy? That's the only caveat I can think of.

harder how? the -1 penalty?? I'm hoping that's outweighed by our common religions and will be of no consequence. The real challenges, as i see it, of this game will be 1) building the UN, and 2) ensuring that our competition is not of our religion.

Pholkhero >> UP NOW
Karr1255 >> on deck
Robo Kai >>
Scowler >>
Xerol >> just played

I think we can secure the UN by keeping an engineer or three on hand. I say we beeline for steel and get an ironworks city up - one with tons of production - and pile any generals we get into it for experience. I tried this in a recent game as Japan. With west point, ironworks, and 3 generals settled, along with Theocracy and Vassalage, I was able to put out modern 17xp units every 2-3 turns, and this was on Marathon speed. With forge, factory, and ironworks we can work 5 or 6 (I forget what factories let you have) Engineers running. Engineers would be good for securing some other wonders as well. I know this isn't a military-based variant but we'll almost certainly need to go to war later on to adjust borders and diplomacy in our favor, and if we set up two good military cities (the one I mentioned, plus one with the HE, preferably a coastal city for powerful naval units with a drydocks) we'll be able to secure our victory while leaving the other cities available to tech up to Mass Media quickly and spread the religion effectively.

-1 relations doesn't make it that much harder, but it's still harder :mischief:

If we grab buddhist cities from Capac I'm sure it won't be too hard to "edit" our rival's religious alignment assuming that civ shares Hindu with us. :mischief:

I think Heroic Epic will be sufficient for the military center. We can slap the Ironworks elsewhere to help build everything else (e.g. UN), keeping the military producer free.

I did post the save, didn't I?

For a second I was afraid it would be my turn. Yesh, the save is there.

Pholkhero >> UP NOW
Karr1255 >> on deck
Robo Kai >>
Scowler >>
Xerol >> just played

I'm back now and will pick it up as soon as Pholks done. ;)

That's another one of those wacky alternative "waiting for your post" thingies! :lol:

Good thing I have a break between turns in various SG's! Otherwise I have no time to play the GOTM.

Boy you folks are subtle ;) :)

Sorry all, i had a small personal emergency these past couple days and will be OoP for sure again Monday and Tuesday (est). However, i'm off from work, can play later today, and post a report. But it'll be about 12 hours (maybe less) so that's still in my 24/48 time peroid (72 hrs) so :p !! :nono: :scold: :scold: a$ $$holes!

:lol:

Okay, ya'll, here you go:

First things first, before i push enter, I call our enemy HC over for a chat. We agree to smoke the peace pipe [pimp]
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/4903/1000hcpeacemd3.jpg
I've never been a big fan of the war for this game, as I think it should, until later, be about boosting relations rather than acquiring territory. I figure we can use this time to consolidate some army and if we want, move them into Mali and Mongolia for a nice dual sneak attack perhaps ~

Here's part of our army, now on their way northward to hold the city of Lahore from Malines and Mongolian oppression and keep civic order.
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/297/1000northarmyxb6.jpg
It's also one of the gathering points for one the armies. The second is, of course, Calcutta.

On the very next turn, I meet Isabella...
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/2046/1010isabellane5.jpg
hmm, a Jew, eh? What is youw name, Jew?!
-Brian.
Ohh, Bwian, eh.
- no, no B-RR-ian.
Strike him centurion, very roughly -- oh wait, :hammer2: sorry ~

Jewish, but you didn't found it, eh? so you need some religionifying for sure :) I order up another caravel or two on the homefront to serve as missionary runners, though to my dismay i realized later they only hold 1 (ONE!!) stinkin' missionary! We need Astronomy sooner rather than later to be effective at religion spreading.

Also on that turn, St Thomas Aquinas (GP) was born.
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/2940/1010thomasaquinasjn2.jpg
I put him to sleep in the city. We should discuss what to do with him. We have the HIndu shrine so either we should merge or save him for a GA perhaps? Or even if we get another GP for Islam??

Here's a shot of Calcutta:
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/3051/1010veryfararmyrw3.jpg
As I mentioned before, this is our other army stronghold. That Mongolian city that lies between them is a GREAT nuisance to me, though there's probably no chance it'll flip to us nor that there'll be an oppurtunity to take it...but oh if there was :hammer:

This was a very busy turn as Hinduism also spread to the last heathen Malinese city:
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/1420/1010zehinduspreadkx2.jpg

In 1020, we meet Hannibal, leader of the Carthiginians.
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/1470/1020hannibalot0.jpg
There SHALL be peace in our time . . . b/c you're converting :D He's another one we need to flood with missionaries. Perhaps we can alternate shiploads to him and Isabella.

I also negotiate a little Open Borders treaty to get things rolling.
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/5885/1020hannibaloblx5.jpg

So far, it looks like we need to isolate Ramesses and HC as the founders of their own religions, and convert everyone else! That's why, too, i don't think, now, that we should raze the Buddhist holy city. We NEED him to stay Buddhist to use as a punching bag! More to come . . .

Turns of moving our opposing caravels enter are punctuated with diplomatic visits. In 1040, there's the historic Great Begging of Huayna Capac.
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/8156/1040hcbegqo4.jpg
No, get a job, like the rest of us.

In 1060, our Good Friend in Faith Genghis came by with an idea for a strategic resource trade:
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/8718/1060gktradeof8.jpg
I said okay for the relations boost and the horses for the short term. I also proposed a trade to him:
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/1903/1060gktrade2ys3.jpg
Nice to get another luxury good, eh?

Our ships found Spain a few turns earlier, and then later sailed past the capital:
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/9975/1060madridsx5.jpg
There's Madrid. I believe there's a missionary in a caravel on his way there now.

Later, I found this island SE of the one we're on:
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/4540/1070islandlm2.jpg
Now here's another reason to get to Astronomy: to colonize this island! It'll make for 2 nice commerce cities.

In 1080, New Sarai becomes the last heathen Mongolian city to convert and now every non-Incan city is HIndu on our continent.
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/3424/1080newsaraihindumx9.jpg

Here's the situation on my last turn, 1100 ad: We've got a few caravels out in the wide open seas a mere turn or two from teh circum nav bonus:
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/2864/1100circumnavlk2.jpg
We've also got a caravel with a missionary on it sailing west towards Spain to begin the Great Conversion of the world. The journey of thousand miles and all that . . .

Here's an overview of our nation, the great Hindu Motherland:

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/666/1100overviewnm5.jpg
Beautiful, isn't she? :lol:

Pholkhero >> just played
Karr1255 >> UP NOW <-- yeah, yeah, he's already got it . . . again ;)
Robo Kai >> on deck
Scowler >>
Xerol >>

And the Save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85326/PH04_AD-1100.CivWarlordsSave)

I didn't want to rush you(again) but rather sign in to say that I'm back.

Oh and I'm playing now. ;)

We already have a prophet idling in Madras, the last person moved him there, but I wasn't sure what to do with him (since the shrine would only get us 1-2 gpt, and we weren't going to spread it). Now we have 2, which should be enough to directly pop Divine Right.

pre turn - Lizzy loves Ramesses and runs Theocracy. Doesn't look like we are converting her anytime soon. :sad:

T1 - I start the University of Sankore in Delhi (done in 9). And I group our workers in pairs.

T2 - Some threbs are being built and I settle 1 GP in Delhi (Sankore down to 7). We can't spread 3 religions so 2 shrines won't be necessary. I actually think we might want to merge the other one too but the next player can decide that. Delhi will get all the money multipliers because the Hindu shrine is in there so the +5 gold is nice and it's our main production city.

T3 - :woohoo:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h233/karr1255/One%20Happy%20Family/01-Magellan.jpg

T8 - Great artist born in Delhi. I let him sit there with the prophet. We could save them for later (mass media).

T9 - For this turn I will just let the pictures do the talking:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h233/karr1255/One%20Happy%20Family/02-Era.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h233/karr1255/One%20Happy%20Family/03-Education.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h233/karr1255/One%20Happy%20Family/04-Sankore.jpg


The University isn't a huge thing but it took only 8 turns to build and also produces 6 scientist points. And of course the AI can't build it. After Education I start Philosophy. I think we might want to get Liberalism and take Astronomy.

It's probably good to pop + research DR if the additional reasearch won't take too much time, so we can save one of the prophets for a GA; hopefully we'll get someone else next time.
EDIT: karr already put one Prophet inside Delhi
EDIT: Using the GP I will detour to Divine Right since no one seems to be contesting us for Liberalism. If there is opposition to this plan, speak now while I sleep. :D

It's Saturday 2AM; I'll get off to sleep now and play in 6-8 hours.

I think we will get Liberalism for sure so go for it. I don't know how many turns it takes after the lightbulbing to research though. Do we save the artist for a golden age then or put him in the city that gets crushed by Mansas capitol? (Which probably won't change much)

My first prophet would've researched around 60% of the tech, but the later a GP is born, the more valuable they are, so this new one should be able to research more of that (unless it's the new one you settled). As far as saving the artist goes, the same thing applies - by the time MM comes into play, the artist will probably only be able to do 1-2 turns of research for us. Might be a good idea to settle him somewhere to solidify some borders.

Good turns! I think we could settle the GA rather than use him for a culture bomb @ Lahore.

Pholkhero >>
Karr1255 >> just played
Robo Kai >> UP NOW
Scowler >> on deck
Xerol >>

If we just want to secure some more tiles for a pressed city I'd settle him. It's almost impossible to tell which tiles would be claimed by the bomb without using the world builder. So my vote goes to settle the GA and try and get divine right via the prophet.

Can the GA lightbulb anything that'd help us get to MM quicker?

I just looked up the tech preference for the GA and heres the first couple:

Literature
Drama
Music
Polytheism
Monarchy
Mass Media
Radio
Mysticism

The question is if we save him for that long to bulb MM would he give more than maybe 1 or 2 turns of research? I doubt it. Right now he'd lightbulb drama btw.

The question is if we save him for that long to bulb MM would he give more than maybe 1 or 2 turns of research?

I know that, in fact, I SAID THAT above:

As far as saving the artist goes, the same thing applies - by the time MM comes into play, the artist will probably only be able to do 1-2 turns of research for us.

Anyway, I was just wondering about the immediate benefit of lightbulbing vs. settling. But I do agree that we need to secure our culture first, I was just wondering if he'd help. (Drama would probably take 4 turns at this point anyway.)

I just checked that Islam had already been founded. Do we still need Divine Right (for Spiral Minaret perhaps)?

Drama takes a whopping 2 turns and we can grab it after Liberalism maybe. Speaking of Lib, I'm heading straight there now unless we really need the DR detour, although I bet someone's already building the Minaret as we speak.

1200 - 1300:

Movement:
Moved Great Artist to Lahore and settle him there.

Technology:
Genghis Khan asks for Philosophy and I accept
Genghis Khan offers Music + gold for Paper and I accept
We research Philosophy. As of 1300AD, Liberalism is due in 2 turns.

Building:
In 1212, Angkor Wat was built in a far away land.

Delhi: University -> Aqueduct -> Settler* -> Courthouse -> Christian Monastery (for science bonus)
Bombay: Aqueduct -> University -> Market
Madras: Trebuchet -> Hindu Missionary
Bangalore: Hindu Monastery -> University
Calcutta: Granary -> Courthouse
Shangian: Lighthouse -> Granary

Religion:
Leptis, a city in Carthage sees the light of Hinduism
Karachi, our new city, gets Hindu... for free

As of 1300AD, we have a Caravel with a Missionary on the way to Carthage. We also have a Caravel on the way back to Old Sarai/Bangalore to pick up a fresh Missionary. I haven't build a new Missionary yet, consider one in Delhi.

Land:
Mansa's on the way to steal some prime land so I PANIC!
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/1908/ph0431bi9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Build a settler in Bangalore for 2 turns, and I settle Karachi to grab Cows and the hill.
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/4976/ph0432ay4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Now Mansa's boat is on the way to... where is it going? I have no idea.
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/5712/ph0433mz9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

NOTE: If Genghis' city of Old Sarai has a cultural expansion, we may be able to reach the island with the sheep and iron via a Galley. Of course, I don't know when that cultural expansion will occur...

If Islam has been founded already I think settling him in Delhi might be good. Or build a 2nd shrine and start spreading that religion(Christianity?) too. If we still run org. religion this might be more lucrative in the long run.
But I would use him now. Past divine right great prophets become useless for lightbulbing.

I don't think we got a GP-powered Golden Age yet, howver. I would run extra other specialists in Delhi if so to "combat" the Great Prophet chances.

Got it for either very late tonite or tomorrow.

(0) 1300AD
- As Hannibal is willing to trade maps I do so to reveal his lands...


http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/4535/civ4warlords2006100814434235bs5.jpg


(1) 1310AD
- Delhi: Christian monastery -> Hindu miss

(2) 1320AD
- Liberalism -> Divine Right, picking Astro on the way:


http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/9544/civ4warlords2006100814544353kx8.jpg


- Great Prophet is lightbulbed: DR now in 3
- Trade spare Dye to Hannibal for 7gpt
- Trade spare Wine to Ramesses for 9gpt

(3) 1330AD
- Delhi: Hindu miss -> Hindu miss
- Madras: Uni -> Galleon
- Bangalore: Uni -> Galleon
- Miss is loaded onto caravel and sent Carthagewards
- Meanwhile in Hannibal-land, Hindu is spread in Hadrumetum, but fails in Hippo
- Trade spare Cow to Hannibal for Deer

(4) 1340AD
- Divine Right -> Gunpowder
- Delhi: Hindu miss -> Spiral Minaret (due in 6)
- Trade spare Gold to Genghis for 5gpt

(5) 1350AD
- Bombay: Market -> Settler (intended for SE island)
- Lahore: Lib -> Uni
- Great Scientist born in Delhi so I use him to build an Academy in the city
- I notice that the research boost will allow me to research Drama in 1 turn, so I do a quick switch
- Granary whipped at Shangian

(6) 1360AD
- Drama done; switch back to Gunpowder
- Lahore is changed to Theatre to help with cultural pressure
- Genghis adopts Theocracy
- I make the following trade with him, which shaves a turn off Gunpowder:


http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/6489/civ4warlords2006100815432871ot5.jpg


(7) 1370AD
:coffee:

(8) 1380AD
:coffee:

(9) 1390AD
- Gunpowder -> Chemistry
- Whip Theatre in Lahore
- Whip Galleon at Bangalore
- The Spiral M is due next turn so I look around to see if I can palm DR off on anybody. I nearly make a deal with Genghis, but then notice that he has a spare Great Engineer hanging round. I don't know whether this would allow him to beat us to the Minaret but I decide not to take the risk

(10) 1400AD

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/514/civ4warlords2006100816044659bj8.jpg


- Delhi: Spiral Minaret -> Hindu miss
- Bombay: Settler -> Observatory
- Madras: Galleon -> Courthouse
- Bangalore: Galleon -> Forge
- Karachi: Granary -> Lighthouse
- Lahore: Theatre -> Uni
- With the Minaret out of the way, I can safely make my deal with Genghis:


http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/9555/civ4warlords2006100816082748ec7.jpg


A galleon containing a settler, worker, and longbow has been launched towards the SE island:


http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/4305/civ4warlords2006100816112900fm2.jpg


One of our caravels noticed some activity going on further south - this also explains where Mansa's settler went. I guess we'll want some missionaries down there too:


http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/5213/civ4warlords2006100816142014vi6.jpg


We are now ahead in tech and we still have monopolies on Astronomy and Gunpowder:


http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1025/civ4warlords2006100816180146bh0.jpg


Trade and Diplomacy:


http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/8477/civ4warlords2006100816183085me5.jpg

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/9862/civ4warlords2006100816183778gw4.jpg


Save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/44064/PH04_AD-1400.CivWarlordsSave)

Hindus versus Jews. :D Who will win?
Looks like we may be able to convert Hannibal and Izzy. Izzy will probably turn on Rameses if we do enough religious convincing hehe!

Yes, we want to aim to make everyone hate Ramesses. Perhaps a late game dogpile might be a good thing to get everyone's boni up and onto our side :evil: :) Howeevr, HC will serve as another person to keep the war bonus going against once people start to make peace with Ramesses. We should perhaps head now right towards Mass Media for the UN while we spread more of that ol' time religion around!!

Pholkhero >> on deck
Karr1255 >>
Robo Kai >>
Scowler >> just played
Xerol >> UP NOW

Beeline Mass Media now? Great, although I still feel a bit insecure with Genghis and HC with us. I'd love to have at least Grenadiers first.
EDIT: We're almost to Chemistry, great! :D

Will play tomorrow after work.

Basically, if we can get the religion in every city of an AI, they'll most likely spontaneously convert. Should we fail conversion, we might want to consider forcing Free Religion, then getting everyone to hate on the other candidate for other reasons.

i think free religion would be the death of any pure diplomatic win ~ we need these bonuses for most of the votes that go for us.

We could use free religion to open borders if they hate us because of different faiths. Once they convert, we swtich back and enjoy.

we hope :mischief:

Skip me, I can't get singleplayer saves to load right now. Multiplayer's working FINE, but I get a CTD when trying to load a local save.

Hopefully everything will work out with that, and it looks like that puts me up again ~ I will download the save today, but I'm not sure when i'll be able to play (either tonight or tomorrow)

Pholkhero >> UP NOW
Karr1255 >> on deck
Robo Kai >>
Scowler >> just played
Xerol >> needs a skip

Okay, here's the report ya'll. First off, i took a look around our cities. @ Bangalore, i did some calculation. This could be a big hammer city, but we need about more farms here to be able to work everything.
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/4228/1400bangaloremq4.jpg
As much as it might be painful, i would chose to farm over that southern desert FP, & that grass forest south too. I also think we need to chain irrigate over to that Plains forest there. Just an idea. I didn't do it so we could discuss.

A couple of turns later, Ramesses comes by for a trade:
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/8540/1420rametradead1.jpg
I say sure, why not. A happy for a health? Not bad.

Then a few more turns later, I also use the whip at Lahore.
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/2996/1440whiprx7.jpg
I started to farm most things here so that we could use the whip to get some culture in there. We're emph'ing food there for now.

I spotted a workshop north of Madras!
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/1953/1460workshopeu3.jpg
Huh? I cottaged over this thinking the commerce will be better in the long run than the hammers.

Pretty much nothing else happened until my last turn:
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/7809/1500mansabegut2.jpg
No, f- off! No begging!

Ramesses offers us OB, and I accept.
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/4240/1500obtradeos8.jpg
We may get a worst-enemy penalty, but then i thought we could wait for one of our friends to ask us to stop and grab a bonus with them!

And I suggest a further trade:
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/9475/1500rametradeiy3.jpg

Then, war trumpets sound:
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/3152/1500wardb8.jpg
Ugh, more trouble on the island! I'm NOT too sure that Genghis is prepared for this war.

I further discover something unfortunate:
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/3948/1500nospreadnh7.jpg
Notice we can't spread. Theocracy is in effect :( So, this makes it a bit tougher to grab a Diplo win. What should we do? I'm thinking conquer: vassallize MM or GK and conquer HC. To that end, i've started some grenadiers. HC is WAY behind and doesn't even have gunpowder yet! We could take him pretty quickly.

Roster:
Pholkhero >> just played
Karr1255 >> UP NOW
Robo Kai >> on deck
Scowler >>
Xerol >>

The Save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85326/PH04_AD-1500.CivWarlordsSave)

ugh ~ sorry about the wrong sizes

I wonder if we can pay Hannibal to get out of Theocracy. And who will we support in the war? GK is more powerful so maybe conquering Mansa for votes will be faster than killing off GK for votes...

EDIT: Hannibal's favorite civic is Free Market! I think we can go for Economics immediately, we still have a chance to get the free merchant, since at this time only Rameses can research Economics.

Got it - will play later or maybe tomorrow.

also, Hannie won't take anything to convert. The only thing he could convert to, Paganism, was redded out, iirc.

The only thing he could convert to, Paganism, was redded out, iirc.

You can only ask an AI to convert to a religion/civic that you're currently using.

Only a quick report because I didn't have alot of time:


T2 - Great Scientist born. He could lightbulb 1700+ of Scientific Method. I let him sit in Delhi for now.

T5 - Replacable Parts done now researching Steel. Hannibal will switch to organized religion for Liberalism. So I gather all caravels at our coast to spread the faith. Maybe he will switch to free religion afterwards oh well, the next player can decide what to do with him.

T7 - Mansa asks us to join the war. I decline since if we conquer one Mansa seems like the better target also because his culture is squeezing us in.

T9 - I just now notice we have 2 hindu missionaries sitting in Hannibals territory and another one loaded on a galleon. :crazyeye: So I give him Liberalism and spread the good word around.

T10 - Genghis asks for war support and I agree. Send Units to the front.


I spent most of the turns building grenadiers. Steel comes in 2 and our Stack will be in Mali territory in 2. And the use for the GS can be discussed, he's still idling.

I hate to declare war on my last turn but we're in good shape. Good luck to the next player. :D

Is it my turn now? Ok, let's see what I can do about the situation. Give me 8-10 hours to play and report.

At least, when we finally bump Genghis Khan to Friendly he will never backstab anymore.

All right. I think we should conquer MM and then Vassalize HC as a good near-future plan, as we also try to devote a lower production city to some missionaries to convert Hannibal. And that's right, Rob