http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/1898/LK121BC-2800.zip

There were just 4 civs left to play, and the random roll picked the Aztecs.

4000 BC

Well the map is definitely strange for resources.


http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/9228/lak1159qa3.jpg


With being spiritual, I shall make a run at Hinduism.


3970 BC
We pick $40 from a hut.


3910 BC
We get to pop a hut on hills, jungle, ice, and corn tile. We pick agriculture for free. :dance:


3700 BC
We pop a map that shows the capital for Khan. Now there is a neighbor I prefer not to have.


The fantasy realm produces some very strange tiles. Notice the random piece of ice in the lake.

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/7573/lak1160bk6.jpg


3550 BC
Add Bismarck to our list of neighbors. He is to close for comfort.

Movement on this map is really strange, as there are a lot of unexpected 2 movement tiles.
(IT) As expected, we found Hinduism.
With these neighbors I decide on archery next.


3400 BC
(IT) Our scout is beat up by a lion, and needs 7 turns to heal.


3340 BC
(IT) Add Peter to our list of "friends".


3190 BC
(IT) With a grassland silver tile available, the next target is mining.


3130 BC
(IT) Add Mao to our list of "friends".



3010 BC
(IT) Our scout survives another attack, and promotes to woodsman 1.


2920 BC
I start work on bronze working to local the metal.

Wrapping top to bottom on the map is going to take some time to get use to.


Welcome to the insanity of this map.
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/8341/lak1161yq0.jpg

==========================

Summary:

It looks like shields will be the challenge from the capital. The flood plains fur already has nice income for us. The mined silver will help money more. We really will need the hill mined.


The archer is to protect the capital. Our warrior is out scouting for our second city site. Both units are healing.

Not sure at this time if a run for Stonehenge is worth it. I would like the prophet points for an early shrine.


Signed up:
LKendter
Jabah (currently playing)
Slowcar (on deck)
Tatran
Dicorion

Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Ah, with all that silver I guess you went for the "crazy" resource setting. I'll be following this one. That's an astonishing capital site for commerce. How awesome will bureaucracy be?

I am checking in. :cool:
Nice start. Indeed. I tried only one map in fantasy realm with cracy resources appeaance and draw 4 wheats in city range with 2 copper revealed after BW. So this is not so strange and unusual starting position. :lol:

I like epic speed, I am used to play on marathon so this could be less frustrating in terms of timeconsuming builds :mischief:

And as sooooo posting, what about Civil service slingshot? I tried it a few times but never with this strong capitol :crazyeye:

And oh, nice set of turns :goodjob:

Two happiness ressources in the big cross, thats some pretty big early towns. Is this stone on the half-visible field 2N 3E of our capital?
With all that food available i would vote for settler first, maybe in good aztec tradition with using the whip?
Fast early expansion and aggression would be very much in Montes mind, we should try to be better in research though.

After BW i would vote for writing to get open borders and our religion spreading and i think after a settler we can give Stonehenge a try, the wood above the silver has to go anyhow and maybe we have some extra spare pop again.
Bein spiritual we can switch to hinduism if it seems feasible.

Got it, will play tonight (like in 8-10h) so plenty of time for comments, ideas.


I don't know how many hammers a mined silver could be on all this crazy tiles, but with 3 silver+plain hill + forrests, I don't think production will be a huge problem.

Jabah

PS - being at work, I can't open the save. What are the settings (barbarians...)

With all that food available i would vote for settler first, maybe in good Aztec tradition with using the whip?
Fast early expansion and aggression would be very much in Montes mind, we should try to be better in research though.

Barbarians are in play, so I would veto settler first. Especially when the capital is naked as I sent our only warrior out trying to expose enough tiles to pick our second city site.

We should probably go archer (Teno defence) -> archer (going to city#2) -> settler(s).

Tech wise, Bronze then either
1. Pottery -> Writing (?)
2. Iron (if absolutly no Copper around) -> ?
3. Animal (if absolutly no Copper around) -> writing
Or something else ?

With the 'strange' ressource distribution, finding a site with several Copper/Iron and/or horse could mean an absolute production monster... worth checking the 'cheap' Animal Husbandry soon, no?

Jabah

edit : (s) for the final s of settler(s)

With my little experience on fantasy_realm mapscript I must say that copper is no more an issue. I found aproximetly 10-15 copper resourses on uncovered terrain with two in my fatX in capitol. :eek:
But I don´t know if it is common think or another piece of crazy setting for this script.

In other words I am for Bronze Working, just for chopping some early stuff in our new settlements. Can´t say if slavery would be usefull with this terrain so far.

Don't worry, I am not going to chance the research off Bronze (we need it and LK has invested already at least a third). I was considering the possible hypothesis in case we had no Copper (which might be completely irrelevant if as you said this kind of map is covered with Copper :) ).

Being spiritual, revolting to slavery is a given anyway. (note to myself, just have to remember to do it...)

Jabah

IIRC I didn't hit animal husbandry as we have no tiles to improve that need it. Now if we no visible copper, then it might be worth considering.

We still need the wheel at some point. I didn't work toward pottery as we didn't have much to cottage. Between the lakes with fishing, fur, 3 silver and river income wasn't an issue for the first city.

The fantasy realm produces some very strange tiles. Notice the random piece of ice in the lake.


I had a hill/oasis/plain tile once when I picked Qin in a fantasy realm setting. It had 3food/2hammer/3commerce (2+1 from trait) unworked. now if it's next to a river it would mean one more commerce....crazy :lol:

I am new to civ and this site but have been playing a lot recently...after reading a few SG with unique variants I am now more interested in how other people play normal games...so I'm definitely lurking this one.:goodjob:

btw in the few fantasy realm games I played (or tried, rather), production has always been a problem for my capitol. but I think your capitol should do OK with silver mines and forests ( and 1 mine on the hill )...wont be a production monster but decent enough. CS slingshot would help the production a lot for sure.

(which might be completely irrelevant if as you said this kind of map is covered with Copper :) )

Oh, just don´t think I am an expert on this map :lol: I just discribed what happen to me once :p But I think that copper will be disposable.
And yes I understood you well but must comment common thing sometimes :crazyeye:

And of course I forgot about being spirutual so slavery is a sure thing. Is it still cheaper than despotism (or what the basic civic is called)? I am now playing almost warlords so I expect some problems to look back :mischief:

And the weel sounds good to me. Than maybe writing in the construction pathway?

T0 - 2800BC

So we have a exploring warrior (injured for another 3t) and scout (injured for another 1t)
A worker mining sliver (for 6t) and an empty city (archer in 4t, could be slightly accelerate in emergency).
Bronze in 10t.

T1 - 2770BC
Scout get XP for a total of 9) from a hut -> woodmanII.

T2 - 2740BC
keep exploring

T3 - 2710BC
idem

T4 - 2680BC
Archer ->archer
Send the 1st archer exploring west (but close enough).

T5 - 2650BC
keep exploring, scout in forrest next to Lion to get the 10th XP
Win but without gaining XP and injured for 3t??
(also strangely enough despite Wood II, he still can walk only twice in forrest).

T6 - 2620BC
Decide to mine the 2nd silver first instead of hill, has it offer +1h/+4c instead of just +2h but I can't before Bronze (realise that before moving as the icon is blacked when moving mouse over).

T7 - 2590BC
Meet Napoleon just next on our west (1st in score).

T8 - 2560BC
Buddhism fidal (Mao convert the following turn).
Warrior (on hill) spot wolf + bear (2 tiles away)

T9 - 2530BC
Bronze - revolt to slavery ASAP.
We have Bronze on the toundra NNW.
Warrior kills wolf.

We have so many river that all the ressource are connected, decide to go for animal first (6t). The idea is Animal-<wheel->Pottery->Writing
Depending on second city, we can squeeze masonry (lots of marble around).

T10 - 2500BC
Teno reach size6 (max happy without defender and swap to heavy production.

T11- 2470BC
We are hopeless (7th) on the most advance scale.. wait a minut until our silverssss get connected. (Napo ->Mao->Bismarck->unknown->Khan->Peter)

Peter settler pair in the north.

T12 - 2440BC
Peter has built a city in the north.

T13 - 2410BC
Teno : Archer->settler
Worker goes to the Copper (but we will need road to connect)

T14 - 2380BC
Bismarck adopt slavery
Warrior finishes next to the bear (but in forest and he is wood I)
but is dead (against 20% odds)

T15 - 2350BC
Animal -> Wheel (to get the discount on the next tech, since we can research up to Writting while building settlerx2+archer before starting a library)

Horse are a bit far away in the East

Settler in 9t (maybe a bit less as copper in 7t)

Archer is on the sea SW, should ge East as there is a nice site 7S of Teno (3corn, wheat, deer, silver, spice, oasis, flood plain, 6 hills + 1 unknow). Warning bear is on the way

there are other sites, 1 East (horse sugar silver) but Germany could be there already.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/819/LK121_dotmap1.jpg

Jabah

Uh, some bad RNG results :(
And it is seen that this time there is silver madness, so it´s definetly one part of crazy setting. One or maybe two resources in crazy amounts :crazyeye:
Oh yeah still learning a lot :p

Looks like Silver is your Crazy Luxury, Corn is your Crazy Food, and Marble is your Crazy Early Game Strategic. There's also a Crazy Late Game Strategic, but you won't know about that for a while.

In addition to the Crazies, there will also be the Missing. :eek:

I'm not seeing any Copper. Good luck if that's what you drew for Missing Early Strategic. :lol: (Of course, the enemy won't have it either, in that case, so nothing to panic over.)


- Sirian

there is one copper in Teno's fat cross. maybe iron? sucks to be Tokugawa san.

"what do ninjas drink?"
"huh?"
*bruce lee style screaming
"Waataaaaaaa!!!!"

Lurker's comment:
I thought Macemen needed "Copper or Iron"? Or maybe Samurai need Iron specifically?

Lurker's comment:
samurai is iron only... had to learn that the hard way

"haha fear my samu...what the i have copper i am sure"
"o that is so not funny"
are you sure you want to enter World Builder?

We have absurd income for a city without a single cottage.

I agree with trying for red dot as the next city. Russian already stole the area I like up north with dyes, marble and horses. I would send the archer that way immediately so that we have warning of barbs or another AI trying for it.


Signed up:
LKendter
Jabah
Slowcar (currently playing)
Tatran (on deck)
Dicorion

Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Looks like Silver is your Crazy Luxury, Corn is your Crazy Food, and Marble is your Crazy Early Game Strategic. There's also a Crazy Late Game Strategic, but you won't know about that for a while.

In addition to the Crazies, there will also be the Missing. :eek:

I'm not seeing any Copper. Good luck if that's what you drew for Missing Early Strategic. :lol: (Of course, the enemy won't have it either, in that case, so nothing to panic over.)


- Sirian

Thanks for cleering that. :goodjob:

So if the missing resource will be iron we can use to our advantage our UU, which need no iron nor copper :cool:

I like the city 2nd location. There is one good spot on the east with corn, deer, horses, sugar and dye. Maybe it can take the No.3 in our city list.

i'll play tonight

Not much to do.

As a german i play the german version, don't be too surprised about the strange text :) dict.leo.org helps

I find the Chinese north of us, maybe a good target if we advance in their direction.

http://mitglied.lycos.de/slowcar/Civ4ScreenShot0039.JPG
(imageshack not working for me today so i used some of my webspace :( )


We meet Kyrus and build our city as planned.
After developing some ways of rolling things on wheels we try to conserve our advancements with symbols on papyros and finally succeed in discovering writing. as everybody likes eachother i sign open borders with all who want to and explore paris. 3 archers, 2 of them with CG1, walls already built and 3 cities.

http://mitglied.lycos.de/slowcar/Civ4ScreenShot0042.JPG

Science is set on pottery as we can use some early huts on the floodplains. Ten builds a library, on the turn of my save it can be pop-rushed for 3 and takes 11 turns to complete

http://mitglied.lycos.de/slowcar/Civ4ScreenShot0043.JPG

I built another archer, originally to scout the german development in the east and if it would be a good idea to settle there but move him south to counter the barbarian. the worker is on its way south, we should consider to build a second there once the city hits 2.

I would vote for early alphabet, connecting a marble and building the GL.
another city or maybe two and we should be able to build a few axes and go after bismarck or mao. we play monte so we have to!
hopefully hindu will spread to the french, napoleon makes a good ally.

save (http://mitglied.lycos.de/slowcar/LK121 v. Chr.-1900.Civ4SavedGame)

By the way, I believe that you -can- switch to English at the start of your SG rounds and then switch back to German for solo play. All versions contain all the language settings and text, and switching from one to another should be a pretty simple affair.


- Sirian

EDIT: I notice the game had production automation on. This is the type of automation prohibited by the rules. Tatran, please take this off at your turn start.


Summary:

Have we considered Stonehenge? I would really like a prophet for the Hindu shrine at some point.


Signed up:
LKendter
Jabah
Slowcar
Tatran (currently playing)
Dicorion (on deck)

Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

For Prophet points, since we could have marble (need another city afair, maybe west of our second city, if still free, see after) maybe we could go the Oracle instead of Stonehenge (taking Metal Casting if we don't want to do the 'cheesy' CS slingshot).

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/819/LK121_dotmap2.jpg

1S might be better (+1 corn/+1 silver but -3 flood plain) but marble won't be 1st ring and will need culture (so not for a fast Oracle).

Otoh, we could do both Stonehenge and Oracle (after settler?).

Jabah

PS - the picture is from my turn, so with maybe we have more relevant information (or the AI is there already)

As a german i play the german version, don't be too surprised about the strange text :) dict.leo.org helps[/URL]

Don´t worry, in this stage of game it is well understandable.
BTW in czech language Keramik (pottery) is called "keramika", so gues where this expression come from :p

Can you see another good spot for our third city? Or are we going to conquer them instead :mischief:

By the way, I believe that you -can- switch to English at the start of your SG rounds and then switch back to German for solo play. All versions contain all the language settings and text, and switching from one to another should be a pretty simple affair.- Sirian

good tip, i'll try this when i am back home. wouldn't make a big difference anyhow as my first civilization on my amiga500 was in english, one of the main reasons i passed my grades back then :)
i think i was the only pupil knowing a granary...

Can you see another good spot for our third city?
just east of our capital there would be a nice place. i wanted to scout it with the free archer but had to move it to defend from barbs.
the second city is fairly rich on food so we can easily produce a settler when its grown a bit while our capital concentrates on more important tasks, i.e. axemen or stonehenge. i thought about oracle but with the french having connected marble, owning three cities and being industrious i did't see a chance. it would be more monte-like to conquer it :)

Pre-turn
Cancel the current builds in our 2 cities.
There are at least 4 good spots to settle first.
And we need some military.

1780 BC (4)
Pottery is in, start to research Iron Working.

1720 BC (6)
Mao wants open borders, why not.

1660 BC (8)
Settler is ready, but Napoleon already took a very good spot in the west
with the floodplains and silver. That will save us a settler.

IBT 1630 BC
Judaism has been founded somewhere.

IBT 1600 BC
Napoleon finishes the Stonehenge. Another reason to get rid of him.
Mao must have also founded Judaism, no one else converted to it.

IBT 1570 BC
Our scout got killed.

IBT 1510 BC
Genghis wants also open borders. I agree again.

1480 BC (14)

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/4194/civ4screenshot0000rerz1.jpg

Got it. Will play in 16h, report in 24h. So i am open for any suggessions.

Welcome to the first succession game turnset of Dicorion the Copper Saver :cool:

Well, I looked at the save and see no reason for change anything, so I hit my very first SG enter here on Civilization Fanatics. Before that, I look around the map and say to myself: "What the hell, Dicorion, lets try and make some dreams come true. Make your first real…….DOTMAP (http://album.olympus.cz/PhotoGallery/img/showImage.ashx?555A462F5CF3940A\0008C8AD82BB1FFB46 079)" :D
More about that a bit(ter) later.

IT: Barbarians are approaching Tenochtitlan from E and Teotihuacan from S.

1420BC
Regular axeman is moved to the over-river forest to see barb archer closer and take his first step to the new suggested city spot in the middle east

IT: Archer is easily defeated.

1390BC
Axe must heal for 1 turn.

IT: Iron working completed. With some thinking I chose mathematics both for more useful chopping and open research in currency and construction.

1360BC
Axe goes SE in his way to spot No.1

IT: Barbarian archer appears in the NW and is probably going for copper or beavers.

1330BC
So what to do, what to do …. hmm. I make a controversial move. I WHIP (yes this means this :whipped: ) a settler for 2pop in Tenochtitlan. It allows me make jaguar in the next turn just barely ready to attack pillage-able barbarian archer if he goes for beavers. If this was a bad move sorry about that. :please:

IT: ARCHER (http://album.olympus.cz/PhotoGallery/img/showImage.ashx?555A462F5CF3940A\0008C8AD7E38FE243E D6A) goes to the forest between copper and floodplain beavers. Another archer crashes on our axe in the southeast.

1300BC
Axe gets combat II and heal for 1 turn in which he can continue shadowing the settler produced in Teno. Production in Teno set to jaguar in 1 turn.

IT: Napoleon shows me his arrogant face and arrogantly (it is Nappy in his great form) call for cancelling our trades with Cyrus. I see it too much arrogant and we get -1 to our relations. (I follow the idea of going for him first so no worry for some negative diplomacy). Still he found some archery time and killed barb warrior in cultural borders of Teo. Thanks for taking failed diplomacy out on poor barbarian :crazyeye: And of course barbarian archer goes for copper. Sorry about that :cry: nothing I can do….

1270BC
Oh wait, jaguar can cross the water and still take fight with archer? Oooooh, Dicorion are you really thing that this is still 3C3 or what? :rolleyes: Or is there something I overlook? Gah, nevermind. I make it to my good use and kill this stupid arrow-maker with ease. And this was the born of Copper Keeper! :goodjob:

IT: Nothing to mention.

1240BC
I moved settler another step toward next promising city site and ….. saw WHITE BORDERS (http://album.olympus.cz/PhotoGallery/img/showImage.ashx?555A462F5CF3940A\0008C8AD7E389A017A B6C) :( Oh damn, there goes my flawless dotmap :p So make it back on the grassland hill to settle on spot No.3. Tenochtitlan reaches pop 6 and I make a short stop for second worker which is most needed now with 4th city coming.

IT: Nothing interesting.

1210BC
Our Jaguar heals and goes in the nearby woods for deterrent duty in the W. Found Texcoco in not so good spot, but we are running low on free space with Bismark to the E, Napoleon to the W and Peter (in this strange world :crazyeye: ) both to the N and S. I set Tex on archer.

ITs: Simply nothing almost to the end.

1180BC
Work on road on deer in Teo is ready, sent worker to it´s silver both for commerce and hammers.

1150BC
Start mining silver.

1120BC
Just mining.

IT: Only mentioned because We Popped Another One™ Gems :mischief: in Tenochtitlan. So what do you think now about money-loving people of Teno. :lol:

1090BC
Archer ready in Teo. I left barracks already in queue.

1060BC
Worker in Teno goes roading toward Texcoco (icy corn in 6). Left library (11), making Teno grow back to 7 in 11.

1030BC
Nothing

1000BC
MATHEMATICS (http://album.olympus.cz/PhotoGallery/img/showImage.ashx?555A462F5CF3940A\0008C8AD7E37DDA7B4 3DF) now in 6. Almost producing archers for defence.

So this is IT. My first attempt in LK121. Hope you enjoy the very, very strange report (not the best English user :eek: –and IMHO appropriate for this map ;) ).


Sorry for images only as hypertext, it seems my imagehosting server names pictures in crazy way, disaloving me to show them directly. Some help?

I disagree with the whip in the capitol. As our main source of science, WITHOUT a granary, we really can't afford it IMHO.


I can't find a save!


Signed up:
LKendter (currently playing)
Jabah (on deck)
Slowcar
Tatran
Dicorion

Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

I disagree with the whip in the capitol.
I almost whipped the settler for our third city to take the
spot Napoleon has settled now.

Save 1000BC (http://civ.aro.cz/Dicorion/Save/LK121%20BC-1000.Civ4SavedGame)+

Sorry I was a litlle bit tired so forgot to add save.

Still I think it saves our beavers commerce and makes no rela diferrence in research. We get IW in the same amount of time. But I see your point and do it not again. Sorry.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/1898/LK121BC-0775.zip


1000 BC
While we badly need more military and settlers, I will let the library in Teno finish.
Tlat is in a border war with France already, so swap it to obelisk. With France having Stonehenge, this is really big issue. Texaco goes to obelisk, as both of its food tiles are second ring. Texaco will be weak until that extra food comes on-line.

Our worker situation is terrible, as we have 4 cities, yet just 2 workers.
(IT) We are dead last in the list of most advanced civs. :(


940 BC
We had NO chance for the Oracle, as it is already completed.


925 BC
(IT) The next science project is mediation, so that we can build a monastery and spread our religion.


880 BC
Teno is building another worker.


850 BC
(IT) The next science project is priesthood, so that we can build our half price temples.


Germany placed a really annoying city.

http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/4719/lak1166sy4.jpg


805 BC
(IT) The next science project is Alphabet for tech trading, and the option to grab the Great Library.


790 BC
I start a monastery in Teno, so that we can start spamming missionaries. We really want a couple of religions friends.


==========================

Summary:
There is an axeman on go to for Tlat.
With being dead list in military, I would like to keep Teot on pure military.

We need to determine the best city to run a priest specialist in, so that we can build the Hindu shrine. Of course, we need to spread our religion first. I am building a Hindu monastery in the capitol for that purpose.

I have one archer with zero xp out exploring. We should take advantage of all of the open borders to map out as much land as possible. Before borders start closing we need to get Hinduism out to the world.

The worker near Cologne is to chop the forest it is standing on. I would like to chop those shields before the German city borders expand.



Signed up:
LKendter
Jabah (currently playing)
Slowcar (on deck)
Tatran
Dicorion

Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

...and the option to grab the Great Library.
If we've no marble we can scrap this idea.

If we've no marble we can scrap this idea.


I have gotten it more then once without marble. The key is first to literature...
With our pathetic science situation we really could use the help. Not to mention an academy in the capitol.

I was not here this WE (as written in LK thread).
Got it now and will try to play tonight (quite late as I have some RL activities to do before :) ).

Jabah

T0 - 775BC

We have only 3 workers and this is not enough, our military is 4 archer (1 in each city) plus a reserve of 2 axe and a jaguar, need improvement as well.
We also have very few roads, both for connecting ressource, cities, AIs or military needs. That need to be fixed.


On the cities status, we are working far too many unimproved tiles (cf workers).

Teno is on health limit (without granary) : change basic flood for plain forrest to speed monastry. There is still a jungle forrest to clear/mine. Finaly change to granary first.

Teo is without obelisk and granary and has (2 corn, wheat and spice in second ring), still has corn not farmed and is working desert forrest and bare plain (for a grand total of 2h+1f), change to obelisk/granary to be whip before going back to axe. It will be a good whipping city (or GP farm or worker farm) later.

Tlatel has no improved tiles (2silver+1corn there). Same for Texc.

Spreading our faith is good, but i see more urgent matter with granaries/obelisk/workers.

On the International relation, we are at +2 with everyone but Mao (+2/-2 because of religion).

Napo is 1st and Bismark last. Bismark is just to our east and has annoying and/or good cities, I think he should be our 1st target.

T1 - 760BC

Tlatel : obelisk -> granary (for 3t until size 3 then should swap to worker).

Teo, whip obelisk for 1pop (queue granary behind)
Teno, whip granary for 2pop

T2 - 745BC

Ganghis asks us to cancel deals with Cyrus, none of them are our close neighbour and both are at +2 so no reason to accept. (we are now at +2/-1 with Genghis)

Teno : granary -> back to monastry.
Teo : Obelisk-> granary.

Teno culture expend, giving a (flood plain ice corn) and a (deer toundra) to Texcoco. (and also we have now 2 marble in Teno 4th ring)

T3 - 730BC

Russia gets a GScientist.
Moscow is nicely defended (4 CG archers+spear)

Teo, whip granary for 2 pop (it will have deer+corn+oasis to regrow fast).

T4 - 715BC

Teo : granary -> back to axe (for 1t to grow)
Tlatel switch to worker (size3).

T5 - 700BC

Texcoco : obelisk ->granary (for 3t until size3)
forrest chop reachs Teno.

T6 - 685BC
Teno : Monastry -> missionary and switch to fast growth (3t instead of 6t).

T7 - 670BC
Texcoco (size3 and with corn+deer being under improvment) change to worker.

T8 - 655BC
keep exploring.

T9 - 640BC

T10 - 625BC

T11 - 610BC

T12 - 595BC

Alphabet -> Masonry wait before shouting !!!
We now have marble that need to be connected before starting the GLib, so the 3t detour seems ok to me.

Confuscianism fidal (by Genghis and that is not a good news)

We have the following tech situation:
1. everyone is up fishing+masonry (+maybe more behind)
2. everyone is down alphabet.
3. Mao, just that
4. Genghis, down Math as well, up Horse+CoL
5. Peter, down Math+Meditation.
6. Cyrus, down Math, up Metal.
7. Bismark, down writing, up horse.
8. Napo, down Priest+Math, up horse.

I decide to trade a small bit to improve relation
Napo : Priest for Fishing
(everone is up sailing as well)
Bismarck doesn't want to give masonry for writing.
Will see later.

Whip worker in Tlatel for 1 pop.

T13 - 580BC
Napo asks for Math, as long as it is not Alphabet and he is the leader, we can do it.
He is pleased and at +5 now.
I ask back (but friendly, not as a threat) for sailing (the only not red tech) and he return the favor :)

Genghis convert to Confuscianism

Thanks to my new roads, we have trading possibility with Napo and Mao, (both are without copper but want it for marble).

Teo whip axe for 1 pop (quite angry now, but will do workers non-stop until the whip is forgotten).

With 1/3 of Masonry done, Peter is now ready to give it for Meditation (he was the only one lacking it).
Bismarck has discover Writting now as well.

Start Litterature for GLib.

T14 - 565BC
Teno : missionary -> Temple.

Cyrus asks for Alphabet, that is NOT accepted, we are now (+3/-1).

1st Missionary is going to France as we want to improve our relation with the leader...

T15 - 550BC
We have now 1 more worker and going to have another in 2t and 4t.
1 seems to be doing useless road, but he is just waiting for Teo borders to expend in 2t on the easiest most productive (hammer-wise) corn outside.
2 are working on getting the marble NW of Teno connected (should be in 6-8t, 2roads+quarry).
Litterature is in 6t at either 70% (+3gpt) or 80% (-2gpt).
The 1st missionary is going to France (either Orleans just onthe border or Paris ?), we should discuss where the next one should go (domestic or foreign?).

Teno will have a tiny bit of time after missionary and before Glib, either another missionary, worker or my preference would be temple to hire a priest while building the GLib (same production and slow growth) as it will be at happy limit at size 9 (whip memories are going to fade away next turn)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/819/LK121_Teno.jpg

Teo should build worker while at happy limit (hard whipping happened here) and military while allowed to grow. The barracks there seems out of place as it extremely food heavy, probably better to have a library (whipped), hire 2 scientists to get an academy in Teno.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/819/LK121_Teo.jpg

Tlatel is waiting to be improved (1 woker there), but will in the long teem be a nice commercial center with 3 silver).
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/819/LK121_Tlatel.jpg

Texcoco is also food happy, and should probably whip the granary soon.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/819/LK121_Texcoco.jpg

Jabah

Napo is 1st and Bismark last. Bismark is just to our east and has annoying and/or good cities; I think he should be our 1st target.
With our pathetic military situation, we are a long way from being the one to start a war. Let's see what our relationships are like once we have a military. After all, the Mongols will be getting hostile soon with Confucianism.


I decide to trade a small bit to improve relation
Napo : Priest for Fishing
While I can't argue with helping the relationships, burning some of our tech cap on an 88 beaker tech is painful.


Teo whip axe for 1 pop (quite angry now, but will do workers non-stop until the whip is forgotten).
UGG - our only city with barracks is stuck on military duty. Read my previous comments on pitiful military.


Teno will have a tiny bit of time after missionary and before Glib, either another missionary, worker or my preference would be temple to hire a priest while building the GLib (same production and slow growth) as it will be at happy limit at size 9 (whip memories are going to fade away next turn)
A priest in Teno won't help much. With missing Stonehenge and Oracle we are pretty much screwed when it comes to getting a prophet. With 8 GPP science points in Teno, it will be almost impossible to get the prophet for the shrine. We would need a city with 2 priests to have a chance. I have this problem before with the GL. It keeps being the number on GPP city, and you get scientist overload. Our only hope for a prophet is to found another religion, or to have a foreign religion spread to our lands.

Our military has improved with 2 more axes, but demographics still suck with 7th in military. What I can't understand why we have a 4 xp axe exploring, but left a junk 1 hp archer at home. I am getting very nervous with our pathetic military situation.
We need to decide on a military city, and keep it on pure military. With being aggressive, and half price barracks, it is really sad we just one. And that city is on a worker.

Most of the world still lacks religion. We need a city beside the capitol to spread the faith. The early religion doesn't pay off well, if we fail to spread it.

Signed up:
LKendter
Jabah
Slowcar (currently playing)
Tatran (on deck)
Dicorion

Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Agree on most of LK comments (and I of course had read your comments before playing) but need to give a few explanation (not by importance order).
1. the axe is exploring, but very close to our city (in China, which could be a foe and we need to know what to expected from him) and relations with Napo are being 'friendly' now and should be even better after the missionary make him convert.
I think our main worries should be Mao and Genghis for religion reasons, but they are quite far away (well Mao is not, but our extra 2 axe are next to him AND he has no copper, and there is no Iron on map afair).
2. Regarding Teo and its barracks, seing that city with so much food, and working really crappy tiles (desert forrest : how pathetic is that), with great second ring tiles (including several hills that could be mined), whipping granary and obeliks seems to be the most efficient. Probably should mine the hills and put it back on Jaguars or Axe (but need to do a worker first for a few turn to remove some of the whip memories).
3. We needed workers even more badly than anything else, in 4t we will have 4 more than what we had before you played. We probably need another 1 or 2.
4. looking at Germany defence, (only archers) they seems to be lacking Copper as well, going on a limited attacks soon (once we have 5/6 jaguars/axe is very possible) for their 2 closest cities.
5. For Teno, I still think a temple is not a bad idea, it will allow the city to grow to an extra 1 size, reduce the growth after with a priest, speed the GP production and give us a tiny chance of having a GProphet, but let face it right now, having a GScientist for a Academy first is probably much better.
6. Texcoco, I would whip the granary soon and then switch it to barracks, and pure military as well (but also need to mine some hills in the second ring).
7. Tech trading, with Napo (exchanging cheap tech), I was more hopping of getting the 'fair trade' bonus (which we get) than gaining a tech (this being Monarch, and with our luxuary capital I am not too afraid of being hurt badly and soon by the trading limit).
8. Get roads to germany if possible (or finish mapping with archer), we need to check that Bismarck is without Metal and then striking him won't be difficult. Check horse as well to know if we need a spear or two.

I am ready to discuss all that of course (which we should do a bit more imho).

Jabah

We need to decide on a military city, and keep it on pure military. With being aggressive, and half price barracks, it is really sad we just one. And that city is on a worker.[/b]

It seems the best city for any kind of production is Tlatelolco.
This is havy food/low hammer starting region. Not the best we wish with our traits and leader :blush:

Is there any chance of mapping out Bismark? If he is the first for future assimilation I recommend to see what is his stategic situation until we lost OP.

BTW what is going bad with spreading our religion for free? We have cities connected and still no sign of free spread :(

5. For Teno, I still think a temple is not a bad idea, it will allow the city to grow to an extra 1 size, reduce the growth after with a priest, speed the GP production and give us a tiny chance of having a GProphet, but let face it right now, having a GScientist for a Academy first is probably much better.
For the sake of growing the city I agree. I was trying to point out the chances for our shrine prophet are very low. I found an early shrine really helped with free religion spreading.


7. Tech trading, with Napo (exchanging cheap tech), I was more hopping of getting the 'fair trade' bonus (which we get) than gaining a tech (this being Monarch, and with our luxuary capital I am not too afraid of being hurt badly and soon by the trading limit).
It sounds like I didn't word things right. I agree with your action, but that doesn't eliminate the pain factor. I am more worried than anything that we start making to many trades for junk the sake of relations. I really hate the tech trading cap.

It seems the best city for any kind of production is Tlatelolco.
This is havy food/low hammer starting region. Not the best we wish with our traits and leader :blush:

Is there any chance of mapping out Bismark? If he is the first for future assimilation I recommend to see what is his stategic situation until we lost OP.

BTW what is going bad with spreading our religion for free? We have cities connected and still no sign of free spread :(

Military will have to be whipped mainly until we get several mined hills (so more workers tasks). After border expansion, every city will have several hill and/or forrest to work for hammers.

Bismark territory is relatively well known now, but for a war, I would limit our self only to the 2 closest cities (which are quite good and fitting in our dotmap), both because is quite heavily defended (CG2 archer+culture) and I am not sure we won't crash our economy too badly

LK : the problem with our religion is that it is in Teno only, and Teno is the only real city we have so it can't be building everything at the same time. That is why building another missionary and sending it somewhere at home is also a valid option (Tlatel seems better) to have the 'missionary propaganda' being done somewhere else.

Jabah

i'll play tonight (CET)

LK: the problem with our religion is that it is in Teno only, and Teno is the only real city we have so it can't be building everything at the same time. That is why building another missionary and sending it somewhere at home is also a valid option (Tlatel seems better) to have the 'missionary propaganda' being done somewhere else.

Jabah

I agree 100% another city is better to spread the word. We still needed that monastery that was built to start spreading the word to our long term missionary city. Plus we picked up a couple more points of science thanks to the building.

I keep bring it up is because we need to start working on this. I auto spread a early religion quickly in solo play, and forgot the SG problem of keeping everyone on the same page.

If France goes Hindu, our life would be a lot easier. Even the German option becomes more viable if I don't have to worry about Napoleon showing up unexpectedly.


I would really like another missionary for on of our cities before the GL is started.

Is there any chance of mapping out Bismarck? If he is the first for future assimilation I recommend to see what is his strategic situation until we lost OP.
If we can get a bit more military, then I am quite willing to send an obsolete archer into this territory. At the moment, I am not aware of any troops to spare.



BTW what is going bad with spreading our religion for free? We have cities connected and still no sign of free spread :(
Free religion spread is always flakey. A shrine is the key to getting helping it, but that isn't happening anytime soon.

5. For Teno, I still think a temple is not a bad idea, it will allow the city to grow to an extra 1 size, reduce the growth after with a priest, speed the GP production and give us a tiny chance of having a GProphet, but let face it right now, having a GScientist for a Academy first is probably much better.


Actually, another missionary, then temple before the GL works for me. The temple is 1/2 price, so it should be fast to build. The couple turns delay in building the GL will be more then offset from the extra size and shields.

If we agree on building a temple (around 5t) and a missionary (same) in Teno before GL (as long as no one has alphabet, no problem), then we don't need 2 workers to connect the marble. Among the priorities, 1could mine the silver jungle just next so Teno can work better tiles than basic forrest.

We could also trade Math for Monotheism (if someone accept) and revolt to organised religion to avoid building the monastry in a virtually 0% research city (and get 25% on GL).

Math is known only by Mao and Napoleon (afair), but i can't remember if anyone was willing to trade monotheism (i don't think so, but could change in the futur).

There is still space for a city between us and Berlin, even if there is nothing special there (mainly a river, flood plain and ressource we already have), while waiting to recover from whip, Teo can always build a settler. It will fit quite well in our 'dotmap' with a few of Bismark cities.

Jabah

We could also trade Math for Monotheism (if someone accepts) and revolt to organized religion to avoid building the monastery in a virtually 0% research city (and get 25% on GL).

OR would be a good civic for us. While I would eventually want some backup monasteries, we could delay them for awhile. The boast on the GL would be very helpful.

Something else.
I group the AIs in good and bad guys.
In this game, we've a lot of bad guys. Peter, Napoleon, Mao and
Genghis Khan.
Cyrus is the good guy. Bismarck is in between, but mainly a good guy.
(Like aggressive, erratic and pacifist in SMAC.)
So, Cyrus will be likely the target of the bad guys.
So, I want to have some freedom if one of the bad guys asks to
help them in a war, to collect some military struggle points, to
declare war too. Even it's only phony.

I agree with Jabah on our need on workers, improved ressources will allow us to build troops faster.

Our first missionary is on his way to France and the word of his woundrous actions spreads around even before he arrives:

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/6693/civ4screenshot0000cg6.th.jpg (http://img55.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0000cg6.jpg)

Napoleon converts to Hinduism a round later while we explore the german land:

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/4463/civ4screenshot0001xo6.th.jpg (http://img55.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0001xo6.jpg)

I use our Missionary to convert Paris anyhow, one never knows who they may be trading with, evil chinese buddhists maybe. Our second missionary is used on our second town as they have the biggest happines issues as well as the best production to build some new ones.

With Literature finished i start Monotheism as nobody is willig to trade and switch to OR.
Construction then, some catapults will be very handy and we'll need some time to build our army anyhow.
Teno builds the temple as suggested, i set it on non-growth and max production.

Cyrus aka thegoodguy_TM asks for mathematics, no way.

Texcoco has no connection to our empire which i notice only after i chopped the forest with the silver, its set on non-growth as well as Teno and Tla.

Moses is born in Paris. Good to know that Napoleon is our friend. At least as long as he knows it, too (you never can be too sure with Napoleon):

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/7163/civ4screenshot0004xx1.th.jpg (http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0004xx1.jpg)

I move all troops but a single axe (we can whip defenders if we need, but better to have one in the back) towards Texcoco to prepare the assault on the germans. Imo we should raise Cologne but keep Hamburg (the city right of Texcoco)

The GL is due in 12 turns with construction coming in (even though OR costs us two turns) before, i would say barracks and catapult/jaguars, then.

One interesting thing i saw when i checked diplomacy was the "we have our hands on other things" Ghengis said. As we are not his direct neighbour and he dislikes others even more then us i think we'll see him going after sb soon, maybe the germans. With some luck we can use him to soften Bismarck up.

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/7335/civ4screenshot0006fb8.th.jpg (http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0006fb8.jpg)

Bismarck has just connected horses so expect some chariots, too bad we have no spears, be prepared to cover axes with jaguars.

With Napoleon on our side and Mao + Ghengis having a different religion i think we can do quite well while the AIs declare on eachother as well as deny to share techs.
I see some day in the future where we will backstab Napoleon at the best of Montezumas Revenge but until then we have found some good friends.

With Slowcar putting a worker on road to orders (NOT allowed in the LK series), along with assumption we are going to war now (something not agreed on at this time), I feel this is a good time to report the LK houserules. That very worker could have went toward Tlat next to road the forest and get it connected to our network, a very important goal to grow Tlat.

==========================

Standard LK house rules:
1) Automation of any kind is strongly discouraged until the game is known better.

2) A go to order is only allowed if you turn summary warns that it is happening and explains why. Sometimes it is just too important to make sure those reinforcements don't get sent to the wrong place.

3) Please complete your turn. At most the next player should have one unmoved unit such as a settler where you are unsure of its direction. A stack that is fortified counts as completed. The game should be sitting ready to hit end of turn with very little left to move.

4) Don't edit your game results into a got it post. There is no notification of new activity. I have had SGs stalled waiting for a person to move, when the already did.

5) The use of the auto-logger is prohibited for the body of your report. You may include it as a spoiler tag. SGs are about writing up enough information so that the team understands where you are going. The auto-logger clearly fails in this regard. Knowing the details doesn't show the big picture. SGs need the big picture.

6) SGs are about cooperative team play. If you aren't willing to discuss plans before and / or after your turn, then the LK series isn't for you.

7) War shouldn't be declared without a team consensus.

8) If you disagree with a dot map plan, comment *before* playing you turn.

9) I reserve the right to refuse players whom IMHO failed to play in the spirit of cooperation. Declaring an unexpected war pretty much insures you will go on this list. Personal attacks against other players guarantee a ban from the LK series.


I realize rule 9 is a bit harsh, but I can tell too much infighting will put the LK series back on hold.

I move all troops but a single axe (we can whip defenders if we need, but better to have one in the back) towards Texcoco to prepare the assault on the Germans. Imo we should raise Cologne but keep Hamburg (the city right of Texcoco)
I really don't understand why everyone is so hot to start a war now with Germany. Our army was horrid at the end of Jabah's turn, and it isn't much better.


even though OR costs us two turns
:confused: How can OR cost us turns when we are spiritual?


That is why building another missionary and sending it somewhere at home is also a valid option (Tlatel seems better) to have the 'missionary propaganda' being done somewhere else.
I am curious how Teot wound up the choice, not Tlat.


The game does have a sense of irony. A comment was made about failure to get free religion spread, and it happens almost immediately afterwards.

I took a look at the game. I see we build the temple, but failed to hire the priest. Tatran, can you please fix this in the inherited turn? The next citizen will be miserable, and this is the most effective way to stop growth and gain shields. We already have lower our change at a prophet for the Hindu shrine.

I can't believe we have 6 workers. Our tile improvements are horrid despite doubling the work force from the start of my turn.


Signed up:
LKendter
Jabah
Slowcar
Tatran (currently playing)
Dicorion (on deck)

Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

K, sorry about the order to build a road, i wasn't aware of it being prohibited and will put better attention to it next time.
OR costs us research turns as it is a very costly form of government.
I didn't start any war, all i did was to suggest it as we have a technological edge (construction) as well as better troops (axes, jags) compared to germany who has a weak defense. We don't have good places to expand without war.
Of course we can also take on Qin, up to now the talk was about Bismarck who has his cities near and handy.

I would be tempted to KEEP any german cities, they are not that badly founded (when taking into account OUR cultural border), raze and replace is quite costly (time+settler).

Napo did manage to get copper (spear in Paris). What about Bismarck ?
If we go after him soon (I would say either very soon if he has now no metal or after GL to have Teno providing back-up support), I'ld like to have around 5 axe/jaguars+1spear as strike force and have a reserve of 1 spear+1axe ready to defend against any surprise strike at home.

Usually, (and especially in slavery), I don't turn the 'no growth' on. If the city over grow, and show a red face, it remind me that it could be whipping time. I don't know how LK feels about it. (but 'no growth' is very dangerous as we could easily get an extra luxuary, whip memories could fade away, etc..)

Good to see that our religion is starting to convince more and more people :).

Maybe the next one to convert should be Peter, as he is not far away and is sharing borders with ugly mis-faithed guys (Genghis at least).

Jabah

PS does anyone know of a way to see (open) a save without installing the whole game (so I can quickly check at work sometimes since installing the game might be a bit over the top)

PS does anyone know of a way to see (open) a save without installing the whole game (so I can quickly check at work sometimes since installing the game might be a bit over the top)

Ugh, I can only second that. I have just the same problem. :crazyeye:
I see only one way to solute this, but personal laptop is a very expensive way IMHO :lol:

Back to game. I think there is another one problem with going after Bismark with just accurate amount of units. Are we capable to repel German culture pressure without taking him competly out? Yes he is still the last on score, but are we going to kill him to death or just take some lands and leave him living on the edge of our empire?
In another way are we aiming for conquest or domination?

In another way are we aiming for conquest or domination?

To be honest, I haven't even thought about win type yet.
Right now I have only ruled out cultural as this terrain has was to little cottages for the late game high culture percent push for large amount of CPT.

Pre-turn
We have no more room to expand.
Also, we lack hammers.
Sounds not good to me.

325 BC (1)
I was going to whip some missionaries, but Teotihuacan has
already 2 angry citizens of a previous whip.

310 BC (2)
Some workers have their own agenda.

IBT 265 BC
Christianity has been founded in Lyon. :(
Looks Napoleon has to go first. He has also better lands, more hammers.

250 BC (6)
Construction is in, start to research Monarchy.

IBT 235 BC
Napoleon converts to Christianity.
We can't do a thing, because he also runs Theocracy.

IBT 185 BC
Germany plops a city 1 turn before I could our settler in place.
And the city immediate gets Judaism. :mad:
A peaceful solution isn't an option anymore.

http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/4833/civ4screenshot0001rehv7.jpg

160 BC (12)
The Great Library is ours. :)

IBT 160 BC
Bismarck converts to Judaism.

130 BC (14)
Monarchy is in, start to research Feudalism.

IBT 130 BC
Napoleon demands we cancel our deals with Cyrus.
He's now annoyed. Let us prepare for war.
All cities (only 4) are on military duty.

I will comment once I am home, and can look at the game.


A peaceful solution isn't an option anymore.
At this point I agree with you. With France being a psycho, we won't be able to stay friendly with him. Lyon will be the number one target. Without that holy city, we have a better chance to bring him back.
We are really in diplomatic trouble right now as we have NO religious friends.


All cities (only 4) are on military duty.
Is one available for missionaries? We really need some diplomatic friends.

Lyon will be the number one target. Without that holy city, we have a better chance to bring him back.
Lyon is in the west of Napoleon's empire.

Is one available for missionaries? We really need some diplomatic friends.
Peter and Cyrus are left, maybe we can convert Bismarck too.
Most leaders are pleased with each other.
But at the moment to focus on military is better.

But at the moment to focus on military is better.

Well I don't want to have a game where everyone keeps declaring war on us. I have suffered through that type of game, and it is NOT pleasant. If Dicorion doesn't build some missionaries, I will.

I don't even want to play another painful game of the world hates me.


It sounds like the location of Lyon is horrid to attack. :(

I got it.

But at the moment to focus on military is better.
If Dicorion doesn't build some missionaries, I will.

Welll I do my best. In this case I agree with LKendter. There is always better to have some friends :) So Cyrus sounds good. I have not so nice experience with Peter but try bring him to Hindu family anyway.

I looked at our situation and have one question. Should I use our settler or let it for later use? :confused:
I see only one viable location in the S, near chinese judaism holy city Guangzhou. I see the tundra hill next to corn as the best spot. Only problem is that it has a big overlap with Guangzhou. Is there any good reason for not raze it and replace with our own 1SW of it? :eek: It is still a holy city, so i am litle confused.

I can play now, in 2h or tomorrow evening. :nuke:

I don't even want to play another painful game of the world hates me.
I don't know how you play your sologames, but you need to be flexible
in civ4. Leaving our state religion and adopting another one is probably
a better way to continue with this game or use no state religion until
free religion.
I had enough games founding an own religion, but converted to my
neighbours religion. You still can send missionaries to get a powerful
shrine. At the moment our religion is more a pain.

@Dicorion
I would save the settler. I don't like crappy cities.
And a faraway city isn't much of an option too.
If we keep Cyrus as a friend we can surely expect
the -4 relation bonus from "you've traded with our worst enemies"
from most leaders.

I don't know how you play your solo games, but you need to be flexible in civ4. Leaving our state religion and adopting another one is probably a better way to continue with this game or use no state religion until free religion.
I had enough games founding an own religion, but converted to my neighbors religion. You still can send missionaries to get a powerful shrine. At the moment our religion is more a pain.
I usually try to get at least one or two solid friends. Sometimes a single solid friend saved me big time.
At this time I don't see a different good religion to adopt. I will go with no state as a last resort, but that does rule out OR as a civic. Of course, if we are building all military we shouldn't be in it right now.



I would save the settler. I don't like crappy cities.
I agree 100%.

If we keep Cyrus as a friend we can surely expect the -4 relation bonus from "you've traded with our worst enemies" from most leaders.
If Cyrus is the hated guy for most civs, then I agree to shun him.

I would also vote for no religion, we don't need OR without any big buildings queued and military on the top priority, the money on it is better spent someplace else. if we can convert some potential friends to hindu we can always get back to it, that's the good thing with being spiritual.

assaulting france is not really an option, we would need to build military en masse, especially catas, as napoleon is way ahead of us in military strength and we have no good production sites, all very low on hammers.
I would still vote for a soon war with Bismarck, he is weak and without copper or iron, we can take his horses in a fast strike. He will be prey to Ghengis or somebody else anyhow.
With his cities in the back we can afford to build an army capable of dealing with either france, china or anybody else.

with christianity on the left, buddhism on the floor and judaism on the right we can sit back and relax - without a religion - and see the AIs going after eachother. Going after Bismarck now won't get us negative reputation from his religious enemies, maybe we can get Napoleon on our side.

conclusion:
- switch to no state religion
- get Bismarck as soon as possible (2 catapults will help a lot)

conclusion:
- switch to no state religion
- get Bismarck as soon as possible (2 catapults will help a lot)

Sorry to say. I just played so it´s on LKendter :p
Report in a few minutes.

OK. I played only 14 turns, because we end research of feudalism and there are a few possibilities what to research next, so I stopped. Now we have connected all our cities, spread Hindu to Peter and he is now pleased (converted).

SAVE 95AD (http://civ.aro.cz/Dicorion/Save/LK121%20AD-0095.Civ4SavedGame)

I look at the save and see only one thing to change. Hindu missionary in Tenochtitlan (only 5 turns) postpones spear for spread Hindu to Petr.

IT: Oh well, Napoleon cancelled OP, so here it goes, our worst enemy with -3 in relations now.

100BC
I moved axe to Teo and settler to Teno for later use as we talk in forum before.

70BC
I set our North worker for connecting marble which will continue in LKendter´s turn. Than maybe a road to Petr will be a good option for him. I am using our workers for road connections between our cities and mainly for mining hills for more hammers.

55BC
Teo produces Jaguar. I used it´s production for another missionary for Peter´s S(N) (Hmmm… what a map script:crazyeye: ) border city of Novgorod for greater chance of not swapping away from Hindu if some of his cities get another free religion spread. Maybe a little bit :smoke: , so sorry if this was a useless move.

IT: Mao settle on the spot I mentioned for our settler.

40BC
Tlatelolco: barracks -> spearmen; Tenochtitlan: Hindu missionary -> continue spearmen. Missionary is heading to Moscow (in 4 turns).

IT: Petr asks for Monarchy exchange forHR. I think about it a while but than say politely no. We have it still on monopoly so no chance here.

10BC
We have our first GP. NABU-RIMANNI (http://album.olympus.cz/PhotoGallery/img/showImage.ashx?555A462F5CF3940A\0008C8B0B2C450AE26 217) great scientist moved to our newly constructed Academy in our capitol (he can lightbulb compass, so I use it for boost in science in capitol).

IT: Oh well, do you remember the city, which Mao settled on the tundra hill? It gets taoismus and became a holy city. What a nice karma on this spot :)

5AD
With a new calendar (well known of all other AI) or whatever we start production of catapult in Teno.

IT: This time comes Bismark asking for monarchy. He offers HR, which is not enough for our monopoly tech. More on that later.

20AD
A great year for our religion! We convert Moscow to hindu! :beer:

IT: And of course: Petr revolted! [party] :banana: [party]

35AD
I start Jags in Teo and Tlax. Missionary from Teo will talk about hindu gods in Novgorod in a few years.

IT(50AD): Another one comes for monarchy. Mao offers HR+50gold piecies which is of course not enough. I am not going to break our monopoly now, but someone (Lee or Jabah) could trade a lot. But still there is only calendar and HR and currency for trading with CoL, MetalCasting on restricted list. We are now doing very well in teching, so maybe we can use our advantage and tech to machinery and/or civil service or just use our construction head for crushing some AI. Here is the situation in the END (http://album.olympus.cz/PhotoGallery/img/showImage.ashx?555A462F5CF3940A\0008C8B0B2C4F792C2 41B).

65AD
Teno: catapult -> Jaguar. Novgorod is Hindu now.

95AD
We researched feudalism and as I say at the beginning there are some decisions I am not going to do without team discussion. So that´s it. Hope I make less mistakes than in first turns. Here is an overview of our LANDS (http://album.olympus.cz/PhotoGallery/img/showImage.ashx?555A462F5CF3940A\0008C8B0B2C33758AA DC6).

I apologise there may be some non optimal city managment. I looked on it just after I save and send file on server so I don´t do it again. Sorry.
Our cities are still nearly under the happy limit BUT we are badly suffering health problems. I just start farm on wheat in Teo (it´s jungle in the desert tile :crazyeye: so it will take some time). We can use our friend Petr after some road connection to him to do some trades to solute this.

A lot of funny builders turns for me, which is very appreciate :goodjob:

A lot of funny builders turns for me, which is very appreciate :goodjob:

And of course Your beloved catapults are in play. Built 4 of them with some spears and jags. ;)
Are those war horns I hear in the wind? :mischief:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/1898/LK121_AD-0350.zip


95 AD
We definitely have a nice science capital between the academy and the GL.

We are still working way to many junk tiles, so Texcoco will squeeze another out.

I pick Metal Casting for our next tech. With having gems and silver, forges will also give us a nice happy boast.

I get a perfect beaker swap of construction for calendar with Bismarck.
I try to get currency from Peter, but I can't find a reasonable trade combination.

To buy some time with China I cave to his demand for fur.


110 AD
The worker in Texcoco is whipped.


185 AD
Mongolia asks us to cancel deals with Persia, and I agree.

Teot has a worker whipped. If we are going to war we need a good road network. In addition, we have to many dead forest tiles to chop for shields.

200 AD
I convert Hamburg to Hinduism for the diplomatic spying effect.
(IT) Germany converts to Hinduism.


215 AD
Germany gives use horseback riding for free.
(IT) I start currency, as we need to improve our economy.


245 AD
St. Petersburg now practices Hinduism.


260 AD
I cancel the free fur to Mao.
(IT) We can't afford a war with Napoleon, so I give him deer for now.


335 AD
Hinduism spread for free to Berlin.
(IT) The next tech is drama, but I haven't invested any beakers. If war is coming the culture slider would be nice to have.
Hinduism spreads again. This time it is to a Persian city.


350 AD
I get a laugh when I find a barb warrior guarding a hut. Our archer kills him for $53.

==========================

Summary:
Peter is the odd man out. Please don't trade with him.

If someone else doesn't declare, we will be going to war with Germany.

==============

There is a longbow on go to heading to the capitol.

The worker next the Russian border is trying to build a road network to connect to Peter. We still need a road connection to Teno.

I started working toward the German war by getting our troops near the border, and to start completing the missing roads to his borders. I am building a real attack stack for Germany. It lacks spears to counter his horse archers, longbows to defend our new cities, and more catapults. Once the forges complete, we will be to finish these gaps.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/9913/lak1168wg8.jpg


Signed up:
LKendter
Jabah (currently playing)
Slowcar (on deck)
Tatran
Dicorion

Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Imo we have enough troops and should move fast, if Bismarck gets longbows we are have wasted our opportunity and will need maces/trebs.
Still unhappy with us being on OR while building troops, we can just switch back if you go for forges etc.

Got it. Will try to play tonight but not 100% sure.

Without having the situation in front of me, I agree with slowcar, we should move immediately before Bismarck get longbow.

If everyone agree, I will do it within a few turns.

Jabah

Without having the situation in front of me, I agree with slowcar, we should move immediately before Bismarck get longbow.


Check the trade screen. With Bismarck in last place he may be several techs away. I can't check right now as I am getting ready to head to work. 3 of our cities are on forges, so we have zero reinforcements that will follow up that stack.

Bismarck will have nothing but bows to counter our stack, we do need more troops but not for the first cities, maybe we can even get Berlin with our little flock.
AIs can be surprisingly fast in aquiring new techs and once the longbows are there our hands are bound.
Our troops may not be big and mighty now, but they are enough to get Bismarck. Once he gets longbows we won't succeed with the double amount.

He dos not have monarchy in the end of my turns, so I think he is still without feudalism. I say go for his border cities and than we could dicide what next.

I just had another incident of worker automation in LK122. It is clear I need to revise the house rules to specifically PROHIT WORKER AUTOMATION.The following tactics are PROHIBITED:


There are no exploits that I am aware of at this time.


Standard LK house rules:
1) Worker automation is prohibited.

2) Automation of any kind is strongly discouraged until the game is known better.

3) A go to order is only allowed if you turn summary warns that it is happening and explains why. Sometimes it is just too important to make sure those reinforcements don't get sent to the wrong place.

4) Please complete your turn. At most the next player should have one unmoved unit such as a settler where you are unsure of its direction. A stack that is fortified counts as completed. The game should be sitting ready to hit end of turn with very little left to move.

5) Don't edit your game results into a got it post. There is no notification of new activity. I have had SGs stalled waiting for a person to move, when the already did.

6) The use of the auto-logger is prohibited for the body of your report. You may include it as a spoiler tag. SGs are about writing up enough information so that the team understands where you are going. The auto-logger clearly fails in this regard. Knowing the details doesn't show the big picture. SGs need the big picture.

7) SGs are about cooperative team play. If you aren't willing to discuss plans before and / or after your turn, then the LK series isn't for you.

8) War shouldn't be declared without a team consensus.

9) If you disagree with a dot map plan, comment *before* playing you turn.

10) I reserve the right to refuse players whom IMHO failed to play in the spirit of cooperation. Declaring an unexpected war pretty much insures you will go on this list. Personal attacks against other players guarantee a ban from the LK series.


I realize rule 10 is a bit harsh, but I can tell too much infighting will put the LK series back on hold.

I didn't manage to play yesterday (left work far too late). I will play tonight for sure.

Regarding LK rules, do we have a consensus on declaring on Bismark so I can start the war during my turn (if I think the timing is right) ?

Jabah

I think everyone agrees that 4 cities is to small of an empire, and that Germany will supply the additional cities. :hammer: :hammer:

The only question is the exact timing, and your conformt level with the attack stack. In solo play I wouldn't start until at least the capitol was back building units (spears and / or pults). You call on the comfort level of the attack stack.


I did fix the complete lack of roads to the German empire on my round. I simply won't attack without that level of mobility. Not to mention better religious spying.

Well, I'm probably the only one who prefers a war with Napoleon.
He has also not Monarchy, but he has a lot of hills.
And if you look better at the map then you know why.

IMHO our empire lacks the production to fight Napoleon. If we can pick up a couple more cities, then we will be in a lot better shape to fight a large enemy.

Germany has crappy cities, while the French cities are well founded.
An addition to the last comment of my previous post :
Has anyone seen iron on the map? I don't know about other
resources, but iron is needed for a lot of things.
That's why I want hills and try to pop up this metal.

[Edit]
Mao has resources we don't have, iron, gold, claim, fish and crab.

We need to scout more to see how many iron sources are on this map.
The civs with iron will have an future advantage and we don't have it.

According to Sirian there is a "old" startegic ressource missing (and also a modern at least). There are Copper and Horse, so i would say no Iron in this world...

Report coming..

Jabah

PS - German cities are not great, but not that bad and weakly defended, which is not the case for France.

T0 - 350AD
I don't understand, we are still hindhu but not Organised anymore (and have only 2 city with religion).
To avoid being back stabbed, I revolt to No religion to avoid to many negative feelings from AIs.
whip every building in all city (to get more happiness from forge).

Revolt to Vassal (cost 3 more for maintenance, but 7 less for troops and +2XP)

Now only Cyrus get negative relation with us.

Move troops in position to attack Cologne next turn.

T1 - 365AD
Teno : forge->longbow.
Teo : forge->longbow
Tlatel: forge->library
Texco: spear->jaguar

Judaism spreads in Tlatel.
Taoism in Texcoco.

Ask for the 170g Bismarck has, he refused and I declare

2 catapult reduce (a bit the defenses), the second retreat after colaterral damage.
1st jaguar (CR1) has 80% and wins
2nd jaguar (cover) has 100% and captures for 111g (keep)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/819/LK121_cologne.jpg

T2 - 380AD
Cyrus convert to Hinduism

Kill the archer defending Bismark's horses.

T3 - 395AD
Teo : Longbow-> catapult.
Texco : jaguar-> forge (to be whipped)

euclid (Gr. Scient - 75%) born in Teno.
Either Compass (worth 900lb) or a Specialist (worth 6lb/t with 85% multiplier) -> Specialist

T4 - 410AD
Teno : longbow->missionary.
Teo : Cata->jaguars.

Kill a german cat (trying to pillage) after suiciding an archer on it.

T5 - 425AD
Drama->Civil Service

whip forge in Texcoco

T6 - 440AD
Napo wants some furs for cow, i cancel the free deer and change deer for cow.

Teo Jaguar->cat
texco : forge ->jaguar
the defence at Hamburg are down to 20%.
1st jaguar (CR+cover) attacks at 65% but loses.
2nd jaguar (CR+cover) attacks at 75% but loses.
3rd jaguar (cover) attacks at 95% and wins
Axe attacks at 100% to capture city+worker.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/819/LK121_hamburg.jpg

whip granary in cologne.

T7 - 455AD
Teno : Missionary -> missionary.
cologne : granary->forge

T8 - 470AD
approching Berlin, while a smell stack is approching Essen.

T9 - 485AD
Texco : jaguar-> longbow

T10 - 500AD
Peter offers 570g for Litterature, which is quite a lot to finance our research, so accepted.

Teno missionary->longbow.

sign open border with Napo.
hinduism in Tlatel (missionary).

I decide to continue a tiny bit to leave a clear situation for the next ruler...

T11 - 515AD
We are the 5th largest (Napo 1st)

Teo Cat-> longbow

Hinduism in Texco (missionary)

bomb Berlin Defences to 0%, but wait next turn to send the suicide cats.

T12 - 530AD

Attack of Berlin
cat (CR2) vs archer (CG2) wins at 28%, nice.
cat (CR1) vs archer (CG1) loses at 63%, ...
cat (CR1) vs archer (CG1) wins at 80%,
jaguar (CR2) finishes at 100% and captures...
Absolutly NO building left in Berlin, quitye disappointing.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/819/LK121_berlin.jpg

At Essen
cat (CR2) vs archer wins at 66%
jaguar (CR2) vs archer wins at 94% and capture
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/819/LK121_essen.jpg


http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/819/LK121_situation.jpg

Seems a good point to stop and discuss.
1. Should we continue our war, I would say no as we are going to strech too much imho and we now have a nice lake for border.
(we have a relatively strong force 7 jaguars, 6 lgbow and 4/5 spear/axe/cats)
2. Should we go back to hinduism, Peter, Bismarck and Cyrus are hindhu.

Anyway, Civil Service in 3t so no revolution until then. (bureaucracy is a no-brainer).

Oh, and Mao is quite advanced (CoL, CS, Philo and Machinery vs Litterature and Drama for us) but has no Copper...

Jabah

Oh, and Mao is quite advanced (CoL, CS, Philo and Machinery vs Litterature and Drama for us) but has no Copper...
Worse, he's the one with iron. We need to find more sources.

Machinery+CS means Maces+Crossbows, not a good idea to fight them with jags. But anyhow:
well done!

I would say make peace and make a small builder-era, especially courts are needed in the new cities.

Without iron many of the advanced troops are not possible (maces, xbow, knights) and waiting for chemistry is very long.
Mao with iron and cho-ko-nus is a very strong enemy but depending on the position of the iron: can we get it with a quick strike?

Too bad we don't play warlords, trebs would make this so much easier.

Or we could try to get mao hindu and go after Napoleon, but he will be a lot stronger on the military side.

If iron is possible to get from mao go after him, use our core cities for troops and build the german cities into productivity, if it is not we should build up and beeline for chemistry.

A few extra random ideas.

1. we have units with 9XP but none with 10, maybe a few more open combat to get one up to 10XP.

2. I didn't build any national wonder in Teno, thinking Wall Street and Oxford should go there.

3. We don't know Code of Law (should be the next research probably) so no courthouse for now.

4. Are you sure Mao has Iron (I thought there was supposed to be 1 ressource missing).

5. Best thing we can do is to start a war between Mao and Napoleon (or Genghis), it was not possible during my turns, but keep checking.

6. With so many hindhu, we should consider going back there.

7. Back to Organized religion, we should send a missionary of every religion possible to Teno for both temple (Priest to try to get a GPriest) and monastry (research). I think it is maybe even possible to be organised religion with no State religion (so you don't need monastry to build missionary, as we don't really want to spend 10t building a useless monastry in no commerce cities).

edit 8. wait for Civil Service before changing civics of course :)

Jabah

T5 - 425AD
Drama->Civil Service
Since we have drama, is there a reason why we aren't building theaters in the new German towns? I really love those is new cities.

1. Should we continue our war, I would say no as we are going to stretch too much imho and we now have a nice lake for border.
The only reason I would see is if Germany has exactly one town, as we could get rid of the motherland whiners.

2. Should we go back to Hinduism, Peter, Bismarck and Cyrus are Hindu.
If we are in a position that a war with France and / or China isn't scary, then it would make sense. We could get some border expansions in German cities just from Hinduism.

Anyway, Civil Service in 3t so no revolution until then. (Bureaucracy is a no-brainer).
I agree 100%.


I would say make peace and make a small builder-era, especially courts are needed in the new cities.
Once we get can to Code of Laws I agree. When I had the game I couldn't believe how high or maintenance costs were with 4 cities. Once the German cities come out of resistance it will be brutal.

2. I didn't build any national wonder in Teno, thinking Wall Street and Oxford should go there. Agree, and I have included our plans for national wonders above.

3. We don't know Code of Law (should be the next research probably) so no courthouse for now. I agree 100%.


Signed up:
LKendter
Jabah
Slowcar (currently playing)
Tatran (on deck)
Dicorion

Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Bismarck has 4 cities showing in peace negociations (+ Munich for capital), we probably can't destroy him without having maintenance nightmare.

If we don't know what to do with the settler, there are a few not too bad spots.
- SW of Teno (getting flood plains, oasis and a few extra).
- East of Cologne (lots of corn)

Jabah

Agree, and I have included our plans for national wonders above.


Can't find the post you are refering to .... (on the last 3 pages anyway)

Can't find the post you are refering to .... (on the last 3 pages anyway)
Oops, typed them in the word document, but forget to post them. :blush:



Summary:
Planned national wonders:
Heroic Epic - unknown (what is our shield heavy city?
Globe Theater - unknown, what is our highest food city?
Wall Street - Teno (with a decent shrine and lots of income)
Oxford - Teno (by far the most science, and has a merged scientist)

Peter is the odd man out. Please don't trade with him.

==============

Signed up:
LKendter
Jabah
Slowcar (currently playing)
Tatran (on deck)
Dicorion

Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

got the game, will play soon

As it seems to be agreed i sign peace with Bismarck, getting all his gold and one per round. We have a narrow land bridge to his new capital, Berlin should build a theatre soon to counter his cultural pressure.

Going after Mao is out of question for me, all cities are guarded by longbows and his advancements will allow him to build Cho-Ko Nus, a very scary enemy with 2 first strikes and collateral.
We are on +4 with Mao and the option to declare on Napoleon is already white, but our technologies are not enough to get him declare.
I trade fur for 4 gold with him to get a positive trade modifier eventually. As he has neither drama nor literature we can maybe beat him on music, but we do really need code of laws first as our maintenance is already killing us and we still have two cities in revolt.
CS due in 3, CoL in another 4.

I switch Teo to scout, we have open borders with Napoleon but no clue what amount of troops he is hiding, he is a bit higher in the power graph and demographics show him with 213k men at arms against our 200k. Not too bad - if we can backstab him.

Bismarck is a really cool man, he asks for literature one turn after we made peace, and converts to buddhism. I doubt that we'll become good friends anytime soon.

We revolt to bureaucracy, CoL due in 3 (instead 4)
Teno begins to build a market (due in 8). If we stop to run deficit Tenos income is 45 gold, well enough to get a plus.

Mao gets a prophet and starts a golden age.
Napoleon wants to buy feudalism for 145 gold, no way.

We explore Paris and his border cities. Paris is defended, but i can see no offensive troops but a single axe in his cities, most are defended by an axe and an archer. Here is an overview:

Rheims, on the south side of our border, which we did not know yet.
Defended by an axe, a spear and a bow.
http://img427.imageshack.us/img427/7062/civ4screenshot0007tz2.th.jpg (http://img427.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0007tz2.jpg)

Paris, defended by 3 archers, 1 horse archer and a spear.
http://img427.imageshack.us/img427/8971/civ4screenshot0008km6.th.jpg (http://img427.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0008km6.jpg)

Marseilles, on the northern part of the border, defended by an axe and an archer:
http://img427.imageshack.us/img427/6024/civ4screenshot0009il9.th.jpg (http://img427.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0009il9.jpg)

Orleans, the city between Marseilles and Reims, defended by 2 archers and a spear:
http://img427.imageshack.us/img427/6309/civ4screenshot0010lh9.th.jpg (http://img427.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0010lh9.jpg)

Tours, the french copper city, defended by an archer and a spear:
http://img427.imageshack.us/img427/9281/civ4screenshot0011lt0.th.jpg (http://img427.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0011lt0.jpg)


I divided our army in two stacks:
Teno: 1 longbow, 3 cats, 1 axe, 2 jags
http://img423.imageshack.us/img423/5192/civ4screenshot0012zq4.th.jpg (http://img423.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0012zq4.jpg)

Teo: 3 cats, 1 axe, 3 jags, 1 spear
http://img423.imageshack.us/img423/1299/civ4screenshot0013zz9.th.jpg (http://img423.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0013zz9.jpg)

Our army is not impressive, but Napoleons is even weaker. All he has is defensive units and i think Marseilles and Reims can be taken.
Napoleon does not have any longbows but will get them soon.

My opinion:
strike now, conquer Marseilles and Reims, defend at Reims and try to get Orleans, that would nearly halve his empire.
Music is due in 6 turns and eventually we can bribe Mao with it, he would resign trades with Napoleon for literature so we could give him music.

Pro: we have an ally.
Con: Napoleon may have longbows (probably will) by then. And i spied Maos land, he does not have many offensive troops, all he would do are maybe a few longbows set to plunder. And we give a nice technology to the tech leader.

Research is at 60% and -34, many courthouses are built and once they are finished we have a pretty good economy.

I stop here to hear your counsel, strike now, wait and try to get Mao on our side or be peaceful until we get chemistry (we have nothing to beat longbows. but stacks of suicide cats, but that's really expensive).

First I'm not gonna tell players what they should or shouldn't
do during their turns. I only will give them my thoughts and
the person who's up should make a decision on their own.

We'll have a military problem in the near future, because we
don't have iron. France doesn't have longbows yet, so there's
an opportunity now. We still don't know how many iron sources
are available on this map. A war with Mao isn't an option.
Every war we start will give us -1 relation with some other civs.
France has good production cities and has a religion we don't have.
Collecting different religions make us more flexible in picking friends.

I am in no rush to see another war. I would like the chance to recover the economy before commiting to another war. Our military is pretty thin, and one RNG screwover pretty much ends the offensive.

If we do not strike now we won't have a chance until we have chemistry. The french border cities are very high production sites - which our empire lacks. We could well use a heroic epic city.

First I'm not gonna tell players what they should or shouldn't
do during their turns.

As i was told beginning a war without other players telling me what to do would get me thrown out. So i'll at least try to get a consensus here.

If there are other sources of iron they are not nearby, i'll order my two fresh built scouts to explore the rest of the map.


Every war we start will give us -1 relation with some other civs
Napoleon is quite lonely with his religion, i'll check his relations to other civs but i doubt that the others would miss him.

Tatran, may i count you on the falcon faction, then?
LKendter is on the peaceful side.
What about the others?

I could see the reason to strike France, with his "weak" defense and cities that fit nicely, but having -34gpt at 60% is quite scarry (what is the science rate à no deficit?).

We probably won't have any negative relation (but with France) as he is lonely in Christianity.

IF Napoleon's border cities are VERY productive (ok, they are quick good), a very quick strike just for these cities (Marseille, Reims and Orléans) could be nice.

On the other hand, all 3 have city walls and axe fortified behind, so lots of cats are required. Right now, I would say we just have enough to go and capture only 1 sending all our troops and I fear that we will see longbow in the next 2.

If we aggre on this war, I am afraid we have to get ready to be happy taking just 1 city and making peace after.
My plans would be
1. Concentrate all our spare troops 1NE of Tlatel (all 6cats especially)
2. invade SE of Reims
3. 1 round of cat barrage to remove (most of) the defence%.
4. suicide cats until our attacking axe has at least 50% against the defending axe before sending them (jaguars won't be very usefull here).

build more cats and see if a repeat is possible, going north (leaving at least a CG2 longbow, an axe (with anti melee promotion) and a spear (with anti horse promotion) to defend our prize.

Jabah

PS - Reims and Orléans both have 2 silver, so should be able to pay for their maintenance, I am for trying to go for this war but ASAP (just need to move the army) and one after the other.

One more thing

Whip courthouse in food heavy city asap (if not done already)

Well, I must say I am not the best one for advice in this SG, but I see there will not be any other better oportunity for attack than in next few turns. Hammers are the only (and most needed) reason for going conquer..... So I think quick war to take the most productive city on borders and if everything goes well, take 1-2 more, than definetly stop and rebuild.

I feel our troop levels are to thin, and I hate to declare war for probably taking one or two cities.
I really don't want a war with France as I don't think we have the troops, but the rest of the team wants it. It looks like another war.

Signed up:
LKendter (rebuild our economy before another fight)
Jabah (war with light troops)
Slowcar (war with light troops)
Tatran (war with light troops)
Dicorion (war with light troops)

I will be away from friday (6th) to sunday (8th) with no internet access.
Skip or swap but don't wait for me if my turns happen.

Jabah

@Slowcar - are you finishing you turn? I didn't like it, but the vote was clear for war.

To be honnest, it is not the 'light troops' that are worrying me (I think we have enough to start and should be able to build a few more soon), it is our financial ability to cope with extra cities.

Jabah

Signed up:
LKendter
Jabah (skip Oct 6 to Oct 8)
Slowcar (currently playing) Is overdue to complete turn. Will be skipped if no moves in the next 24 hours
Tatran (on deck)
Dicorion

Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Whipped courthouses in our three big cities (tlat, teo, tex) for 3 pop each.
We lose 10 @50%, music due in 3 rounds, we should be first.
Market in Teno in 3 turns, should nearly balance our income (36g atm, +25% with market)

Napoleon built the Hanging Gardens at Paris, maybe we should get the city, too :)
Peter built Chichen Itza and wanted to trade sheep for deer, didn't accept, but we may want to reconsider this as Teno has a health problem.

Moved our army en-bloc to Marseilles, left a C2-axe at Teno to defend.

http://img421.imageshack.us/img421/5457/civ4screenshot0026ax5.th.jpg (http://img421.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0026ax5.jpg)

Reinforcements are on the way.

Happy warmongering!

Pre-turn
We're already at war with France.
We can build maceman (with Machinery), but no pikes, knights and crossbows.
I couldn't find it, but railroads require iron too, IIRC.
Our diplomatic situation is a disaster at the moment.
And we still have no shrine, worse we're running no priests.

695 AD (1)
The attack on Rheims.

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/7184/rheimscapturedrete1.jpg

No losses.

We could use some friends. Let's start with Peter.

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/8622/peterwarrehx6.jpg

I agree.

Now, let's see if Genghis is ready for some action.

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/2766/genghiswarreyu2.jpg

I agree again. Better the AIs "trade" their units with each other than
with us.
Mao isn't ready, Cyrus doesn't want to talk and Bismarck is annoyed.

710 AD (2)
Napoleon has horse archers. We need more spears.
Also Mao has already pikes. :( He starts to running away.
He has already 3 expensive techs, Philosophy, Machinery and Engineering.

IBT 710 AD
French horse archer dies near Rheims.

725 AD (3)
Music is in, start to research Machinery.
Thespis has been born in Tenochtitlan. He'll lightbulb Theology. I'll save him.

IBT 755 AD
Mao and Napoleon change civics, both running Vassalage. I don't trust Mao.

IBT 800 AD
Luck is on our side, Mao declares war on Napoleon. :dance:

815 AD (9)
The attack on Orleans.
Two catapults trying to get rid of a longbow on a hill. One withdraws,
number two kills him. Can't complain here either.

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/2388/orleanscapturedrekz3.jpg

Again, no losses.
Genghis has also Machinery, but won't trade.

Signed up:
LKendter (on deck)
Jabah (skip Oct 6 to Oct 8)
Slowcar
Tatran
Dicorion (currently playing)

Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Now that's a nice world war, these options were not available when i checked. Are Peters sheep still available?

And you are a really lucky warmonger :)
Good descision to let you attack.

I would say we should go for Paris, very good city with quite some wonders in it -> realistic chance on a great prophet. In Teno the chance is quite small due to the Great Library.

After rebuilding our empire we should go for chemistry and take Mao out, that's a long peaceful time but i think we'll need it. Would be hard to take on him with only maces as he'll have knights soon.

So if I understand correctly is there any chance we can destroy France or may I after one or two more cities make peace? I can´t see save for a couple of hours so any suggestions would be most welcome.

This is my got it.

EDIT: If Mao has pikes he must have iron, so waiting for chemistry is a must.

is there any chance we can destroy France or may I after one or two more cities make peace?
Just keep the war going for multiple military struggle points.
We should be the last to make peace with France.

Our scouts are very busy to reveal more iron, no luck so far. :(

Ok. I have more of good news for you :p

I open the save and see that we are in a pretty good shape. Well done predecessors :goodjob:

IT: French cat destroys our marble quarry in the NW, but two of the Mongol longbows take care of him, so our horse archer came short :) we have a plenty in another places so I do not repair this.

Next years were full of worker actions and scouting for iron along the Persian and German borders and in the Mongol plains. No such luck during the whole ten turns :(

860AD
Machinery is in. I start Paper. Both for map info and Liberalism push ;) I also burn 360 gold for upgrade of our two best jags to maces. Still some money left to fund a little bit research.

IT(875): Napoleon asks for peace. No way, I think we have chance for Paris, Lyons and maybe Chartres in SW or Marseilles to N.

890AD
I start moving troops to Paris, small stack (spear, long, cat) goes another way for scouting purposes.

905AD
Whip theatre in Orleans (- 3 pop, comes from revolt: 3 unhappy faces) for culture. I lost cat in misclick :sad: Sorry about that, I left it exposed and wounded horsearcher killed it in 51% odds. There go Tatran´s good battle results :p

920-935AD
Troops marching. (IT) Lost spear and cat against the odds again :mad: They were on the hill waiting for main stack. Not the best results so :blush:

IT(935): Peter wants Music for compass and some money. No, music is monopoly and we are not going for caravels anyway.

950AD
Paper is in. I start us on Engineering. (Now when I am writing this I recognise this as a :smoke: move, ´course we have no Iron so no pikes, still 3moves on roads is useable). BUT! We got another one Great Person! Great Prophet! :goodjob: So I use it on Hindu Shrine in our capitol. I think it is the best we can get out of him. It gets us in green numbers (50% research) again. Maybe more hindu missionaries will be usefull. I start at the end one in our capitol. I was not able to found another city with missionary build ability.
This was a good year for military also. I bomb the Paris defence to zero.

IT: My last mistake costs us another one wounded cat :spank: Blame on me…
Cyrus calls for OP. I agree. He is only annoyed with Khan, the rest cautious and pleased, so no reputation hit for us and we can look at his territory.

965AD
Main quest completed (http://album.olympus.cz/PhotoGallery/img/showImage.ashx?555A462F5CF3940A\0008C8B6EE25EA925A 31F). Paris is ours. Lost just three suicidal catapults (no retreat for me :rolleyes: ). I upgrade one jag to mace, because the city was in the end garrisoned with 3 cats, wounded spear and that jag (it was pointless, no counter at all).

IT: Nothing. I was just moving workers (mainly roads and cottages) and reinforcements to the front) I hope I not left any units on GOTO. I used it only if I see they will end move in my turns, but…..

980AD
End turn. Units in Paris are almost healed, reinforcement at it´s gates. Engineering has invested only 2 turns so it is still vetoable.

Good Luck to LKendter. :cool:

:scan: Can't find the save. :scan:

Summary:
Planned national wonders:
Heroic Epic - unknown (what is our shield heavy city?)
Globe Theater - unknown, what is our highest food city?)
Wall Street - Teno (with a decent shrine and lots of income)
Oxford - Teno (by far the most science, and has a merged scientist)

Peter is the odd man out. Please don't trade with him.

==============

Signed up:
LKendter (currently playing)
Jabah (on deck) (skip Oct 6 to Oct 8)
Slowcar
Tatran
Dicorion

Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

And here is the SAVE 0980AD (http://civ.aro.cz/Dicorion/Save/LK121%20AD-0980.Civ4SavedGame)
Sorry for do it in separate post.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/1898/LK121_AD-1130.zip


980 AD
Our economy is sad with 50% losing a couple bucks a turn, and that is with Paris in resistance.

I don't like our military situation, as our border is running paper-thin with a lousy single unit. We really need this war with France wrapped so that we can rebuild. However, I don't see it ending soon. We can't afford to throw away all of the mutual struggle bonuses.

Our cities are configured poorly. We have cities way below health / happy cap running low food configurations.

Since we lack iron, I swap to philosophy research. We may as well head to liberalism, and try and grab nationalism.


1010 AD
(IT) France and China sign a peace treaty. Our incentive to stay at war is going down.


1025 AD
I actually see some action, and kill an injured horse archer.


1070 AD
(IT) I kill an injured chariot. Why does this silly fool Napoleon think he can sneak injured units past our lines?


1112 AD
It cost 3 catapults, but Marseilles is ours. It is so close to the capitol that the cost shouldn't be to bad. It comes with the nice bonus of 2 workers.


1118 AD
I really don't like AIs having money, so I sell Peter drama for wm & $760.


1124 AD
All of our cities now worship Hinduism.
(IT) Mao comes offering Theology and $260 for Music, and I accept.

How often do you see this message this late in the game?

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/7594/lak1171bb3.jpg


==========================

Summary:
Planned national wonders:
Heroic Epic - unknown (what is our shield heavy city?)
Globe Theater - unknown, what is our highest food city?)
Wall Street - Teno (with a decent shrine and lots of income)
Oxford - Teno (by far the most science, and has a merged scientist)
Forbidden Palace - it just became available.

Peter is the odd man out. Please don't trade with him.

I snuck in additional workers, as we are still hurting for terrain improvements. Not to mention our road network is horrid. Marseilles was pi