This thread is for the discussion of Civilizations, Leaders, Unique Units, Unique Buildings, Music and Great People for Asian additions to CIV Gold:

Babylon
Byzantine
Indonesia
Israel
Khmer
Korea*
Pakistan
Scythia
Siam
Sumer
Tibet
Turkey*
Vietnam
Yemen

* non-Warlords versions only

Indonesia, personally, I would use a different name because Indonesia is more of a modern country. I would use Java, Polynesia, or Malacca instead.

Indonesia, personally, I would use a different name because Indonesia is more of a modern country. I would use Java, Polynesia, or Malacca instead.

Java was a consideration, definitely. The only reason I went with the modern name was because I planned to have Suharto and Kopassus involved, and because of the sheer size of Indonesia today.

Certainly an older "side" of Indonesia could be shown with a 2nd leader. The planned UB for the civ is the Spice House - a take on the region when it was under Dutch colonial rule.

I see. Okay, I definetly see the point, even though the only way to truly represent Indonesia is to have the many civilizations from the area in the game.

I see. Okay, I definetly see the point, even though the only way to truly represent Indonesia is to have the many civilizations from the area in the game.

I could add Java separately, and maybe one other to capture that breadth. If you have any specific suggestions for Java, let me know.

you know for the warlords edition, you'll be kicking out your old Korean LHs, right?
well, i think you could use one of the old Korean LHs for a Vietnamese leader, espeically Sejong. i think he'll do great for some ancient emperor.

you know for the warlords edition, you'll be kicking out your old Korean LHs, right?
well, i think you could use one of the old Korean LHs for a Vietnamese leader, espeically Sejong. i think he'll do great for some ancient emperor.

Good idea. Sejong might stay, though, as the 2nd Korean leader. Wang Gong will be booted and maybe he can fit elsehwere...?

or you could use the old Wang Geon head for Sejong, then replace the old Sejong head for a new more ancient Vietnamese leader...

seriously, i'm Viet, and when i saw sejong for the first time, i thought he looked way more Vietnamese...

seriously, i'm Viet, and when i saw sejong for the first time, i thought he looked way more Vietnamese...

Do you have someone in mind for a Vietnamese leader?

Do you have someone in mind for a Vietnamese leader?

well, my vietnamese history is not as great as i should want it to be, but i can name a few leaders of the back of my head (though spelling may be wrong):

- Hung Vuong - A series of early semi-mythological kings in the first millenium BCE. Most of the stuff about them is legend, like one of them having a "crossbow-grenade-shooter" that could kill a bunch of men at once.

- Quang Troung (or something like that) - A late 1700s general/leader who, had he not died, could've conquered all of China or quite a chunk of it.

- There's also this guy whose name i forgot, i think he ruled in the 1400s or something, but he was a great domestic reformer or something...

- Trung sisters - Two women, Trung Nha and Trung Something, that rebelled against Chinese rule in the first century AD. They were sucessful at first, even "refounding" old Vietnam to some extent, but them something happened, not clear what, and they disappear form history...

Personally, i think putting in one of the Trung sisters is more, er, "interesting", as there aren't any female Asian leaders.

And if that little lecture wasn't enough, you could still look on wikipedia. :)

Well at least for Siam I can offer some ideas. First the naming of the cities is wrong. I have only made 2 cities useing your Mod but I notice that Pattaya is the #2 city. I am not even sure I would add Pattaya as a city at all for siam as it wasnt a major city until the 60s, before then it was a fishing villiage. Durring the Vietnam war America used U-Tapao air field near Pattaya, the city kinda grew up with visiting GIs. Very wild, The Vegas of Thailand is what it is called. Anyway, the Original capital of the first kingdom of Thailand was Sukhothai, next was the City of Aythaya. I know Japan uses the original capital perhaps Siam should do the same? Bangkok didnt become the capital until late in the 18th centuary after Ayuthaya was destroyed by the Burmese, and would still be the capital if that event( massive invasion by burma) didnt happen. IMO the names should go something like this--

Bangkok (if you wish to leave the modern day capital)
Sukhothai
Ayuthaya
Bangkok (if you wish to use the original capital)
Chiang mai
Phitsanalok
Nakornsithammarat
Chiang rai
Nakorn ratchasima
khon Kaen
Kamphaeng Phet
Bang Saen
Chon Buri
Hat Yai
Ubon Ratchathani
Songkla
Phuket(Thalang)
Chiang Saen
Chanthaburi
Pattani
Hua Hin
Nong Khai
Chaiyaphum
Lamphoon
Nonthaburi
Nakhon Sawan
Udon Thani
Lampang
Pak Kret
Trang

that should be enough, though more can be added if needed.

For Siam some other leader options could be Chalulangkorn (Rama V), son of Mongkut. Most Thais see Rama V as being more important than Mongkut. Mongkut is mainly known becouse of the the deeply flawed movies "The King and I" and "Anna and the king" Though he did start many important reforms and was a good leader. Ramkhamheang was the Original King of Sukhothai, thus the 1st Thai king. He created the alphebet that the Thais still use today almost 900 years ago. Narasuen (the black prince) who brought Siam back from the brink after a Burmese invasion. Won many battles against Burmese, drove them from his country, and killed the Crown Prince of Burma in a 1 on 1 battle fought on Elephent back. Without Narasuen Thai history would have been radically differant. Also the current monarch of Thailand-Adulyadeig Bhumipol the great (Rama IX). A great constitutional Monarch who helped the Thai people in numorous ways. He is the longest riegning Monarch in the world at this time and is treated as a near-God by the Thais. Thailand has been blessed with many able leaders, especially durring the times when they really needed them (19th century).

oh, i you know, i just remembered, wyz, its kinda a funny coincidence you put in vietnamese music for the korean leaderheads in the original CivGold...

First the naming of the cities is wrong. I have only made 2 cities useing your Mod but I notice that Pattaya is the #2 city. I am not even sure I would add Pattaya as a city at all for siam as it wasnt a major city until the 60s, before then it was a fishing villiage.

The list isn't wrong, then. ;) Rather, your concern is that the list is for modern Thailand rather than historical Siam. And I agree, of course. I'll look at using your list in future editions.

I know Japan uses the original capital perhaps Siam should do the same? Bangkok didnt become the capital until late in the 18th centuary after Ayuthaya was destroyed by the Burmese, and would still be the capital if that event( massive invasion by burma) didnt happen.

True, but you could make that argument for a lot of civs, right? I have no problem, though, with applying the list as you provide it, so long as you feel it better represents Thai culture.

Maybe we should take the approach we took with Pakistan (or Firaxis took with India) - start with the modern capital, then go with the ancient cities?

oh, i you know, i just remembered, wyz, its kinda a funny coincidence you put in vietnamese music for the korean leaderheads in the original CivGold...

To be honest, I wasn't that familiar with the music. The basis of Korea was done by Jecrell (who is no longer on the board). Is it Vietnamese? I wasn't aware.

For Siam some other leader options could be Chalulangkorn (Rama V), son of Mongkut. Most Thais see Rama V as being more important than Mongkut. Mongkut is mainly known becouse of the the deeply flawed movies "The King and I" and "Anna and the king" Though he did start many important reforms and was a good leader. Ramkhamheang was the Original King of Sukhothai, thus the 1st Thai king. He created the alphebet that the Thais still use today almost 900 years ago. Narasuen (the black prince) who brought Siam back from the brink after a Burmese invasion. Won many battles against Burmese, drove them from his country, and killed the Crown Prince of Burma in a 1 on 1 battle fought on Elephent back. Without Narasuen Thai history would have been radically differant. Also the current monarch of Thailand-Adulyadeig Bhumipol the great (Rama IX). A great constitutional Monarch who helped the Thai people in numorous ways. He is the longest riegning Monarch in the world at this time and is treated as a near-God by the Thais. Thailand has been blessed with many able leaders, especially durring the times when they really needed them (19th century).

Let me check around for some pictures and see what we can do for LHs.

The list isn't wrong, then. Rather, your concern is that the list is for modern Thailand rather than historical Siam. And I agree, of course.

My fualt. Didnt mean to come accross as a know it all jerk (and I kinda did). The list you have are all legit cities just a little rearanging would make it follow history more closely.

Actually haveing Bangkok is fine as it has been capital for 200 years+. Also I think most people would have never heard of Ayuthaya or Sukhothai. Yes, following the example of Pakistan or india seems to be reasonable

For a new unique unit that would be unmistakibly Thai would be a Krabi-krabong(KK) warrior. KK is a sword fighting art from ancient Sukhothai/Ayuthaya. Ussually using two sword (but not limited to that!) KK is very impressive to watch. Go to "your tube" and type in Krabi Krabong to get a look. Most of it is not choreographed... really cool. Perhaps replacing the Mace men or even Knights? Just a thought.

About Music I have some really beautiful music from N. Thailand I believe it would be absolutly great to have as full zoom/ leaderhead music. I can try and send you some files if you wish?

Unique Building could be the "Wat"- Thai/Khmer Buddhist temple. Not sure how it would differ from a normal temple though. In modern Thailand the wat is still the center of the community, much more than the church in america or Europe. Every family ussually has at least one son join the monkhood for 6 months - 2 year (or longer)

Great people. Hmmm well one great thai artist would have to be--
Chalermchai Kositpipat He created Wat Rong Khun near Chiang mai. One of the most beatiful wats ever made-- http://www.flickr.com/photos/lucid_stillness/184700266/
He is a gifted artist dealing mainly with religious themes.
Another gifted artist is Thawee Nandakwang. http://www.rama9art.org/tawee_n/index.html
Sunthorn Phu is often refered too as thailands greatest poet.

Well a few great artist to think about anyway

Unique Building could be the "Wat"- Thai/Khmer Buddhist temple. Not sure how it would differ from a normal temple though. In modern Thailand the wat is still the center of the community, much more than the church in america or Europe. Every family ussually has at least one son join the monkhood for 6 months - 2 year (or longer)

Actually, I have the Wat as the Khmer UB right now. The proposed UB for Siam is the Ho Trai, replacing the library. This is one that Amra did for his pack. What are your thoughts on this?

Actually, I have the Wat as the Khmer UB right now. The proposed UB for Siam is the Ho Trai, replacing the library. This is one that Amra did for his pack. What are your thoughts on this?

Great Idea. I had forgot about Ho trai...wouldnt have thought of it. They can be quite striking with unique architechture and artwork. Sounds good.

You can use a fictional UU for the Vietnamese:
Elephant Rider
And for the Javanese you can use a galley like UU, because Java is an isle.

To be honest, I wasn't that familiar with the music. The basis of Korea was done by Jecrell (who is no longer on the board). Is it Vietnamese? I wasn't aware.

hey, im vietnamese. im pretty sure its vietnamese... not absolute, but sure enough...

Excellent! I thinked it was fictional.

A good indonesian ancient civ thats the best would have to be srivijaya. Basically it was an empire that encompassed Java, Malacca, Borneo, Sumatra, and many islands east of that. They were probably the strongest and most memorable of past maritime south east asian civs.

A good indonesian ancient civ thats the best would have to be srivijaya. Basically it was an empire that encompassed Java, Malacca, Borneo, Sumatra, and many islands east of that. They were probably the strongest and most memorable of past maritime south east asian civs.

Sounds cool.

Can you provide any details?

A new Phak'ak popped up made by Esnaz in Unit Graphics yesterday here. Possibly a new replacement?

With BTS we had to exclude civs once more, because of overlap with Firaxis civs. Good idea though to recycle artwork and let it return as different LH's, units, etc.

Being a bit of an amateur expert on India and Pakistan (especially Pakistan), I have some suggestions. I offer them respectfully and hope you will not think me to be complaining or whining or anything.

First of all, use the Indian voices for the Pakistani units as well. I don't know what language the Pakistanis are speaking.

Remove Benazir Bhutto and replace her with Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, her father, the reasoning being that he's far more important (unless Benazir's death causes some kind of significant development). His traits: Charismatic (that's a trait, right?) and aggressive. If not charismatic, then philosophical.

Well, I have many suggestions, but I am sure you are busy and wouldn't want anyone dictating to you how to design a civ. If you are interested in my assistance (I am a history buff in general, so I might be able to help beyond the Subcontinent as well), then just ask. Great mod guys. ^_^

First of all, use the Indian voices for the Pakistani units as well. I don't know what language the Pakistanis are speaking.

Perhaps Arabic. I'll have to check, but I can replace with Indian easily enough.

Remove Benazir Bhutto and replace her with Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, her father, the reasoning being that he's far more important (unless Benazir's death causes some kind of significant development). His traits: Charismatic (that's a trait, right?) and aggressive. If not charismatic, then philosophical.

Zulfikar is probably a better choice, but there are two reasons I went with Benazir: 1) she is very well known, 2) there is a real lack of female leaders

Well, I have many suggestions, but I am sure you are busy and wouldn't want anyone dictating to you how to design a civ. If you are interested in my assistance (I am a history buff in general, so I might be able to help beyond the Subcontinent as well), then just ask. Great mod guys. ^_^

Suggestions are always welcome. :)

Perhaps Arabic. I'll have to check, but I can replace with Indian easily enough.



Zulfikar is probably a better choice, but there are two reasons I went with Benazir: 1) she is very well known, 2) there is a real lack of female leaders



Suggestions are always welcome. :)

Yeah, India and Pakistan have basically the same language, so what the Indians say is exactly would the Pakistanis say.

I see. Your reasons for going with Benazir are good. I don't know if you would want to do this, but perhaps consider adding Mohammad Ali Jinnah as a leader. He was Pakistan's founder and is widely revered, unlike the two leaders playable now. Plus, you have Gandhi so it would be cool to have Jinnah. They were contemporaries you see, and had political clashes long before the Pakistan movement was born. His traits would be Industrious and Charismatic (or if not that then Protective).

Here's an idea for a unique building that's a little more specifically Pakistani than generally Mughal in character (like the gardens are): Military Run Corporation or Military Business (or you could call it Military Inc., like the book about the subject). Replaces Bank. +50% gold, but also +15% build when building military units.
Or Defence Industry/Factory (Or you could call it by its name, Heavy Industries Taxila. It is a government owned defence producer that produces the Al-Khalid Tank and all that good stuff). Replaces factory and does the same thing, but with the addition of +15% production for military units.

Basically something is more Pakistani if it involves the military owning businesses and stuff. It would also be cool if the bonus for military production was minimal unless Police State was adopted, at which point production increases from 5% extra to 25% extra, or something. Just an idea.

First of all, use the Indian voices for the Pakistani units as well. I don't know what language the Pakistanis are speaking.


Changed it from Persian to Indian for the next version.

I'd like to suggest:

- Mughal Empire, the last great Indian empire before the coming of the British; leaders are Akbar the Great, Aurangzeb a.o.; possible UU's Damascene steelcast cannon, Armored Elephant; UB - actually the Taj Mahal (the Mausoleum, which is actually the same, is also already being used)...

- Mysore, leader Tippu Sultan (the "Tiger of Mysore", creative protective), UU Rocket Infantry/Artillery, UB Taramandal Pet (Galaxy Market, for manufacture of rockets & fireworks)

For Mughal Empire, Armoured Elephant is probably the better choice, since it's more typical.

As for UB, I think Mughal Gardens could be good (just like the gardens building for Pakistan). Or Red Fort (or Mughal Fort) would be good. It could replace Castle. Does everything a castle does, but also reduces maintenance by 25% and adds 1 happiness.

Sounds cool.

Can you provide any details?

:goodjob:

Crivijaya (or Srivijaya), originally Sumatra-based kingdom form 200 AD-1300 AD, basically a thalassocracy (contributing to some extent to the population of Madagascar), ruled by kings like Gautama Sibhadra and his son Pyrawarman of Vinyawarman, gradually extanding its rule over many coastal regions in Malaysia and Indonesia. Claims to have overseen the erection of the Borobodur.

Majapahit contributed to Crivijaya's decline as it rose to be the largest precolonial empire in Indonesia, ruled by kings like Kartarajasa and Jayanegara (also known as Hayam Wuruk).

More details in the Wikipedia entries and the Historia Indonesia.

Majapahit, leader Gajah Mada - DONE

Yes! (Have to write more txt to get posted):mischief:

PS: What will the UB and UU be? (Spice Market and?):confused:

PS: What will the UB and UU be? (Spice Market and?):confused:

Will have to re-visit. The UU for Indonesia is the Spice Market, and the UU is the Kopassus.

When Amra made the Majapahit, he used the Indonesian UB, but a new UU. We'll have to sort that out.