This thread is for all other suggestions related to CIV Gold: new wonders, improvements, technologies, components, integration with other mods, etc.

Wyz,

1-) A horse breeding centre or a ranch could be a logical next step into a military building improvement for Civs that do not have the horse resource but do get horses from friendly Civs (and yeah...always retract that resource when most needed..arghh) . In my opinion its not very logical, that once one gets a few horses one doesnt make 'm copulate... The qualification to get one could be linked to victories or a certain amount of horse units build. But I guess you get my drift.

2-) While I have been round since CIV I, I have always missed the option to depend more on a spying network. The current spy option is not as important as the other parts of the game, like the military, although military and espionage go hand in hand. Maybe make an MI-5 World wonder and give the player(s) the oportunity to enhance spies.

Thaz it 4me..

:D

Need to have a thread for updates and current MOD info, or one where to get current updates and current MOD.
Add a change log for next version/balance recommendations/tech tree recommendations/what would you change in the game/bug reports etc, just some suggestions is all, and btw where can i get an updated copy from?:p

Need to have a thread for updates and current MOD info, or one where to get current updates and current MOD.
Add a change log for next version/balance recommendations/tech tree recommendations/what would you change in the game/bug reports etc, just some suggestions is all, and btw where can i get an updated copy from?:p

Good idea. I'll do this when I have a bit more time to sit down, but I agree that an update thread would be very useful.

My biggest suggestion would be to add new Traits.

Maybe 6 more (3-4 w/ the 3 in warlords.)

I only suggest this because w/ the increasing number of Civs, w/ that goes an inceasing amount of leader heads. 1 Thing I have tried to avoid in my own games is having duplicates of the trait combinations. (2 of each combination as a MAX)
There are lots of combinations of traits that I have seen, and as of the moment I have added 4 into my own personal games.

Agricultural (+1 food to each square w/ 3+)
Ambitious (AnnoDomini Mod called it Builder) Basically its the Industrious Bonus of +50% to wonder production. W/ that I changed Industrious to +1 Production to each square w/ 3.

Patriotic (I saw something in SevoMod that had a trait called Nationalistic that gave a "Nationalistic" promotion of +10% City Attack/City Defence). I used this thinking that a civ with this would be more "Patriotic"

Seafaring: I think this is the most commonly added one w/ the most variations. I basically made it like the Aggressive trait w/ a free Navigation I promotion. and double production of Harbors.


Im sure there are others that can be dreamed up. But these are the 4 I use.

The ability for dissenting cities to break away and declare independance is still sorely missed :( How about at least adding it to the list of settings? Maybe check the box if you want it allowed? :D pwetty pwease...

My biggest suggestion would be to add new Traits.

Maybe 6 more (3-4 w/ the 3 in warlords.)

I only suggest this because w/ the increasing number of Civs, w/ that goes an inceasing amount of leader heads. 1 Thing I have tried to avoid in my own games is having duplicates of the trait combinations. (2 of each combination as a MAX)
There are lots of combinations of traits that I have seen, and as of the moment I have added 4 into my own personal games.

Agricultural (+1 food to each square w/ 3+)
Ambitious (AnnoDomini Mod called it Builder) Basically its the Industrious Bonus of +50% to wonder production. W/ that I changed Industrious to +1 Production to each square w/ 3.

Patriotic (I saw something in SevoMod that had a trait called Nationalistic that gave a "Nationalistic" promotion of +10% City Attack/City Defence). I used this thinking that a civ with this would be more "Patriotic"

Seafaring: I think this is the most commonly added one w/ the most variations. I basically made it like the Aggressive trait w/ a free Navigation I promotion. and double production of Harbors.


Im sure there are others that can be dreamed up. But these are the 4 I use.

This would be a good add-on - something that doesn't come standard but can be added at the player's discretion.

The ability for dissenting cities to break away and declare independance is still sorely missed :( How about at least adding it to the list of settings? Maybe check the box if you want it allowed? :D pwetty pwease...

TheLopez "Great Options" mod is going to have a tonne of features like this that can be turned on and off in the INI file. Not sure if this is one of them, but I wouldn't bet against it.

You said write here, so i am, pls change the Flag for the USA thx, to the good ole R/W/B. THX

You said write here, so i am, pls change the Flag for the USA thx, to the good ole R/W/B. THX

"Old Glory" won't work because it's tri-colour, and the colour scheme won't allow it unless you use a static flag. The problem with static flags is that they pose problems with certain graphics cards, and credit confusion (albeit it minor) in multiplayer.

I can try to come up with a reasonable alternative, though. I *could* add it as a static flag, but Bad Ronald already has a pack that does exactly that.

I've got an idea. As there are going to be unique names for units, how about Jeckel's Unit Names mod for the rest. Then it would seem smoother than going from 'Rifleman' to 'Princess Patricia's'. How about that?

I've got an idea. As there are going to be unique names for units, how about Jeckel's Unit Names mod for the rest. Then it would seem smoother than going from 'Rifleman' to 'Princess Patricia's'. How about that?

Not a bad idea, but I'm not sure how they'd click together. Would Jeckell's stuff overwrite the UU names?

Can you look into this? :)

Wonder suggestions: I don't know is it okay for Rhye if this mod uses some wonders he made for his mod, but they would be cool. Check out his forum, he made Olympic Park as a national wonder and Wembley and The Colosseum as world wonders.

Wonder suggestions: I don't know is it okay for Rhye if this mod uses some wonders he made for his mod, but they would be cool. Check out his forum, he made Olympic Park as a national wonder and Wembley and The Colosseum as world wonders.

This would be a component. We're intent on limited Gold content to additional civ and civ-features. Stuff like extra wonders is a great idea - and I fully support it - but as an add-on.

Sevomod adds a tonne of extra stuff, and uses most of CIV Gold for it's new civs.

I just got this mod the other day, and can't wait for the Warlords version.

My goal in getting this mod was, of course, to find a selection of Firaxis-quality civs added to the game, and for the most part Civ Gold is the best I have seen. Some of the retextures are incredible (the Pakistani Washington and Basil II). However, some of them need a little something. Nebuchadnezzar and Alfonso Henrque just look disturbing, the Lithuanian leaderhead is very blocky, and Tashunkewitico (Sioux) has very garish and almost untextured clothing. In addition, the Swedish leader has an eye problem not found on his identical counterpart in the Amra mod (whose Canadian Trudeau also seems a great improvement over the retextured Alexander used in Gold 3.0).

Please let none of these negatives discourage you in any way. Civ Gold is still by far the best mod I've tried, and if I need to, I can replace the animated leaderheads with others on my own. If anybody wants to consider changes before the next release, these are my ideas so far:

Replace Trudeau with the Amra version
Replace Lithuanian with pre-Warlords Carthage
Replace Sioux Tashunkewitco with Cherokee leader from Amra
Replace Nebuchadnezzar with pre-Warlords Turkish Atataturk
Replace the Swedish leader with identical Amra files to fix eye problem
Replace Alfonso Henriques with Amra's Henrique

Thank you for your time and this great mod. I look forward to the Warlords release.

Jdog5000's Revolution modpack just itches to be added to Civ Gold, at least as an optional addon. It allows internal revolutions in an empire and also lets barbarians become civs if they grow enough.

Thanks for the feedback, Vrenir.

Replace Trudeau with the Amra version

Amra actually did this one at my request, but in the end I didn't feel it looked like him. Trudeau was slightly built with a narrow face. FDR is a bit too large. I agree Alexander is not ideal. Actually, Augustus might be a good model to base from, now that I think of it. Let's revisit that.

Replace Lithuanian with pre-Warlords Carthage

I'll try to find some pics. The added beard was Sevo's first crack at it, I think. Which is why is seems out of place.

Replace Sioux Tashunkewitco with Cherokee leader from Amra

I'm saving that for something else. :) But I agree with you. This was a last-minute leaderhead I did just to get the release out in time.

Replace Nebuchadnezzar with pre-Warlords Turkish Atataturk

Definite possibility. We've been asked to revisit Ataturk in any case.

Replace the Swedish leader with identical Amra files to fix eye problem

That's where we got it in the first place. :) It might be an animation issue. I'll check into it.

Replace Alfonso Henriques with Amra's Henrique

Actually, I may replace it with a really cool Henry the Navigator that Edgecrusher made. I'll review both.

I'm happy to report that the Swedish leaderhead issue was because my graphics settings had been on "low." Somehow it affected the animation in one mod and not the other. Now it's on "medium" and all looks well.

Jdog5000's Revolution modpack just itches to be added to Civ Gold, at least as an optional addon. It allows internal revolutions in an empire and also lets barbarians become civs if they grow enough.

Yeah that revolution thing is sorely missed since a few Civs ago.

I have another two options for your version.

Diplomatic option:

A player or AI should be able to make a formal public (known to all known civs) diplomatic apologie if this is requested. This in order to reduce the red negative points a leader might have over you and second to avoid war. Offcourse it vould be done the other way round as well, to make a diplomatic insult could trigger a war, a war that you didnt start...one merely said someting....

Caltech Worldwonder:

A tech facility that gives the player the option to reverse engineer already excisting techs discovered by other AI's or players. Like for instance computers, that could then be reverse engineerd by 3 turns (shorter to discover such a tech).

:D

I think that maybe you could make scenarios?
One for each part of the world.

I would think that Civ Gold Is really here to be a base for a huge Modder's Dream. A lot of Ideas that you all have is Great. Me, myself would like to see many of them implemented. But all it takes is for 1 stupid stinkin Mod i hate..... and I wouldn't want to see this Mod anymore. I think this mod has to remain simple and that many would have to make modifications on their own.

As some may already know. I am trying to head a team of Modder's to make this Mod easily modded by others already. Check out the Civ community core project thread listed here as well as Impalers Original thread. Volunteers required!!!
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=190830
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=184870

Can you please make special abilities for the UUs?

Can you please make special abilities for the UUs?

What did you have in mind? Do you mean new promotion types or something different?

Maybe, When i was looking in civolopedia the Karolin hasent got any special abilities.

In the vanilla civ all of the UUs has got special abilities like conquaistador who can get defence bonus.

Maybe, When i was looking in civolopedia the Karolin hasent got any special abilities.

In the vanilla civ all of the UUs has got special abilities like conquaistador who can get defence bonus.

Karolin doesn't because it is much, much cheaper to produce. This is the unit Wazdix designed, and I though it was a pretty good trade off.

Compare, for example, the French Musketeer and the regular musketman to the Karolin.

Ok, maybe.

But it was a Spearman UU that hasent got any special....
Ehh watta heck, still evry UU hasent got any special abilities.

Your more then welcome to create your own UU, with whatever features you want if you dont like the ones provided by this Free Mod where people donate their time to build.

Im sorry Edgecrusher if i hurted you when i came whith suggestions for making the mod better.

gandhi, im fine
I mearly suggested that with your personal ideas on what to change, the mod can be made better.

for instane, adding "special' abilities was a good start. but sine, the team 'didnt meet your standards', we humblely ask you for your expert advice in ths matter.

Ok, maybe.

But it was a Spearman UU that hasent got any special....
Ehh watta heck, still evry UU hasent got any special abilities.

I don't mind adding a special to the Karolin, as long as it makes sense. The idea behind it now was that they were drawn from the general population - not necessarily more skilled, but more combat ready. For this reason, you can build them much faster.

What special would you give them?

free promotion, pinch?

free promotion, pinch?

I'll have to check the balance. The Karolin replaces the Musketman in CIV Gold.

Compare Musketman to the French Musketeer UU:

Musketman = 9 Str / 1 move / 80 build
Musketeer = 9 Str / 2 move / 80 build

The French UU gets only +1 move as a bonus. "Pinch" might be a little too much, by comparison, for the Karolin.

Mind you, I think the Musketeer is way underpowered. Maybe a change to both of them...?

Take off so its one move and pinch

Musketman = 9 Str / 1 move / 80 build
Musketeer = 9 Str / 2 move / 80 build
Karlin = 9 Str / 1 move / 80 build and starts with pinch (good balance whith leader got aggressive too)

Gandhi, I think the point is this:

Take off so its one move and pinch

Musketman = 9 Str / 1 move / 80 build
Musketeer = 9 Str / 2 move / 80 build
Karlin = 9 Str / 1 move / 80 build and starts with pinch (good balance whith leader got aggressive too)

The Karlin, werent well trained soldiers, they were quick to assemble countryment that could be roused quickly, but werent as efficient as a regular.

With that said... the UU and abilities should make sense. So why would a historically poorly trained soldier, gain a 25% advantage toward a regular of the same type?. It seems to me it should be the other way around.

Ok, but they did dominate the battlefields, what for ability?

Karolin's could have less hammers to build.

I think the point of this is that they do cost less hammers to build already. The discussion is as to what else there should be.
Personally, I think it's fine as it is. ;) But whatever works for as many people as possible is fine by me :D

Ok, but they did dominate the battlefields, what for ability?

Take the question logically, why did they dominate? Superior Training? Overwhelming numbers? a "special" contraption that gave them an edge (ala greek fire in ancient warfare).

I dont think "Pitch" is good (or any of the +25% bonuses simply because they didnt have superior training. or a special contraption to give them an edge.

Which leaves us with the 2nd option: Overwhelming Numbers.

If one nation can assmeple an enormous army, (of soldiers that arent as well traned) quicker then an army of normal sized army.... then yea... they would have a slight edge.

In simplier terms 3 Warriors > 1 Warrior. yea you may loose 1, but, the army will still win.

Honestly, I think that fewer hammers to build (Karolin) is a much bigger advantage that 1 extra movement (Muskateer).

There are other UUs in Gold that are cheaper to build but they are also weaker. Karolin has the best of both worlds. You can much more quickly build a group of 5-6 gunpowder units to overwhelm the enemy. The French may get there before the Swedes, but the Swedes will be arriving in larger numbers.

I was gonna say, that they dont even have a reduced attack value. (which they should IMO). But as Wzy said, thats a huge advantage over say the Musketeer or even the standard Musketman.

Hey Wyz... why the change in the Diplomacy Music for canada? I hate the new stuff. It sounds like vienanese opera music... certainly not canadian music which what we heard b4. Kinda dissapointed. Talk to me let me make new stuff for you if you didn't like the previous stuff.. but the new stuff has got to go.

Hey Wyz... why the change in the Diplomacy Music for canada? I hate the new stuff. It sounds like vienanese opera music... certainly not canadian music which what we heard b4. Kinda dissapointed. Talk to me let me make new stuff for you if you didn't like the previous stuff.. but the new stuff has got to go.

I wasn't aware of any new stuff in the mod. One of our users made a new music pack, but I haven't integrated it into the mod yet.

Is this in 3.0?? I'd have to check because I didn't...oh! I know what it is - your music pack is in the Canada Mod but I have not added any new music to Gold (only unit sounds). So what you're hearing is just some generic Civ music.

We'll integrate the full music pack - which includes your for Canada - into the next mod.

I wasn't aware of any new stuff in the mod. One of our users made a new music pack, but I haven't integrated it into the mod yet.

Is this in 3.0?? I'd have to check because I didn't...oh! I know what it is - your music pack is in the Canada Mod but I have not added any new music to Gold (only unit sounds). So what you're hearing is just some generic Civ music.

We'll integrate the full music pack - which includes your for Canada - into the next mod.

Okay.. good to hear. I thought it was well done so glad to hear my efforts weren't wasted.

I was thinking about Byzantium’s UU, the Tagmata is good, but what about a Greek Fire Ship, it could replace the Trireme, someone would have to do an animation for it shooting fire. Greek Fire is considered one of the reasons why Byzantium had such military success for such a long time.

Hi. I'm new here but I have a suggestion. I don't know how well it would work, but worth a shot. How about a thread with links to other mods that are based off of Civ Gold?

I absolutely love the idea of Civ Gold and agree that its scope should be limited to new civilizations and civilization-dependent units. The simplicity (in concept) is its strength. But there are some other mods out there that add to other aspects of the game (I particularly like new resources). It would be nice to see some of the mods that are based off of Civ Gold.

Hi. I'm new here but I have a suggestion. I don't know how well it would work, but worth a shot. How about a thread with links to other mods that are based off of Civ Gold?

I absolutely love the idea of Civ Gold and agree that its scope should be limited to new civilizations and civilization-dependent units. The simplicity (in concept) is its strength. But there are some other mods out there that add to other aspects of the game (I particularly like new resources). It would be nice to see some of the mods that are based off of Civ Gold.

You mean like this one? (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=257885) :D

You mean like this one? (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=257885) :D

Thats pretty much exactly what I meant. Thanks!

I may be alone in this, but Alexander (and now Philip II) being listed as a leader of Greece has long been a thorn in my side. He may have largely adopted Greek culture, but the Macedonian League also introduced a few non-Greek elements into the mix iirc, particularly in the military. (Didn't they use a lot more cavalry?) I'd really like to see Alex and Philip split off into a new Macedonian culture - Companion cavalry FTW! - possibly with a new second leader for Greece. (Themistokles?)

Also, I really miss Sapa-Inca Pachacuti Inca-Yupanqui from C3C; I think it's just shameful that they relegated him to the status of Great General with his glowing bio. If kept true to the bio they gave him in C3C, I'd probably call him Creative and...Imperialistic? Militaristic? Aggressive? Something in that area.

Btw, huge kudos for splitting the "Native American" culture up; while I'd say in the normal game it's something of an unhappy medium between realism and game-balance, in a mod like this, it's definitely called for. *headtilt* And now that I think about it, for a long time I've batted around the idea of adding a Navajo (or more properly, Diné) culture; my main hangups have been finding an appropriate leader and UU for them. I've always thought that the fact that they're one of the few (if not the only) native tribes to have successfully negotiated with the US government and thus managed to remain pretty much intact and even to some extent flourish was worthy of recognition.

Feel free to PM/email/whatever me, especially if you need a sounding-board.

I may be alone in this, but Alexander (and now Philip II) being listed as a leader of Greece has long been a thorn in my side. He may have largely adopted Greek culture, but the Macedonian League also introduced a few non-Greek elements into the mix iirc, particularly in the military. (Didn't they use a lot more cavalry?) I'd really like to see Alex and Philip split off into a new Macedonian culture - Companion cavalry FTW! - possibly with a new second leader for Greece. (Themistokles?)

You're not alone in this. Actually, one of our contributors made the same suggestion - move Alexander and Philip II to a new Macedonia, and create Greece with Leonidas or whoever.

After discussing with the team we've decided to preserve the status quo for a couple of reasons:

1 - Since Civ I, Greece has been a civ with Alexander at the helm. It's so well entrentched now that I don't think the community at large would support this change

2 - As with other civs in the game (and certainly in Gold), "Greece" is not strictly Greece, per se, but represents the Greek civilization in a broader context - same with India and China in the game, and to an extent the Celts, Babylonians and Sumerians

This doesn't shut the door on looking into this further. But for right now we've decided to keep Alexander with Greece.

Also, I really miss Sapa-Inca Pachacuti Inca-Yupanqui from C3C; I think it's just shameful that they relegated him to the status of Great General with his glowing bio. If kept true to the bio they gave him in C3C, I'd probably call him Creative and...Imperialistic? Militaristic? Aggressive? Something in that area.

We're adding leaders by the dozens in 4.0. I think a 2nd Incan leader is a fine idea. I'll look into it but our timelines are tight!

Btw, huge kudos for splitting the "Native American" culture up; while I'd say in the normal game it's something of an unhappy medium between realism and game-balance, in a mod like this, it's definitely called for. *headtilt* And now that I think about it, for a long time I've batted around the idea of adding a Navajo (or more properly, Diné) culture; my main hangups have been finding an appropriate leader and UU for them. I've always thought that the fact that they're one of the few (if not the only) native tribes to have successfully negotiated with the US government and thus managed to remain pretty much intact and even to some extent flourish was worthy of recognition.

Thanks!

When 4.0 is released, there will be 10 different North American culture groups. These groups are not defined strictly by biology (i.e. the naDene that includes Apache and Arctic Dene, or a group that includes the Iroquois and Cherokee). Rather, the groupings are geographic as a way or representing groups that shared similarities in practice. It also paints a "what if" picture of these tribes in a larger context.

The two distinct nations are the Sioux and the Iroquois.

Joining them are:

- Dinnehih (Navajo, Apache, Hopi) (LH: Geronimo, Cochise, UU: Codetalker)
- Upaajut (Inuit, Dene, Yakut) (LH: Thanadelthur, UU: Qiimuksit)
- Tillikum (Chinook, Haida, Bella Coola) (LH: Skitigeit, UU: Noseepsk)
- Vo'estaneo'o (Cheyenne, Blackfoot, Metis) (LH: Riel, UU: Dog Soldier)
- Aniyonega (Cherokee, Seminole) (LH: Osceola, UU: Ayastigi)
- Ni-Mii-Pu (Nez Perce) (LH: Chief Joseph, UU: War Chief)
- Piliwni (Mojave) (LH: Wovoka, UU: damn...escapes me right now)
- Anishnaabek (Ojibwe, Cree, Shawnee) (LH: Donnacona, Tecumseh, UU: Ogichidaa)

The one leaderhead I have sort of been waiting for, and I have seen discussed but never made on these forums...Would be Henry VIII. I know balance might be an issue as England would have 4 leaders (although it looks as though Russia will have FIVE leaders in CivGold 4.0), but that would be interesting.

Perhaps he could be ready for the "terrible" leaders add-on...He wasn't a big fan of Roman Catholics, after all. :mischief:

Actually, I've been wanting to add Henry VIII! I don't think we have the resources to do it right now, though. Although I think an extra English LH would be good.

You're not alone in this. Actually, one of our contributors made the same suggestion - move Alexander and Philip II to a new Macedonia, and create Greece with Leonidas or whoever.

After discussing with the team we've decided to preserve the status quo for a couple of reasons:

1 - Since Civ I, Greece has been a civ with Alexander at the helm. It's so well entrentched now that I don't think the community at large would support this change

2 - As with other civs in the game (and certainly in Gold), "Greece" is not strictly Greece, per se, but represents the Greek civilization in a broader context - same with India and China in the game, and to an extent the Celts, Babylonians and Sumerians

This doesn't shut the door on looking into this further. But for right now we've decided to keep Alexander with Greece.

This doesn't add up: your arguements to keep Macedonia out fit perfectly for not splitting up the Native Americans. (So I'm glad the door isn't shut.)

When 4.0 is released, there will be 10 different North American culture groups. [...]

The two distinct nations are the Sioux and the Iroquois.

Joining them are:

- Dinnehih (Navajo, Apache, Hopi) (LH: Geronimo, Cochise, UU: Codetalker)

Codetalker? Why not Horse Whisperer? (I don't think Navajo, Apache or Hopi were talking code - except to non-Native Americans. BTW, I think both terms are nuts): Indians refers just as much to India as Native Americans. Isn't there a "Native American" name for "Indians" - like Upaajut?)

This doesn't add up: your arguements to keep Macedonia out fit perfectly for not splitting up the Native Americans. (So I'm glad the door isn't shut.)

The Native American culture is not a homologous group, which was my rationale for separating them. Technically speaking, you probably don't need 10 distinct groups, but that is how I had them separated in another mod so that is how I transferred them here. (One could, for instance, group the Navajo with the Dene, the Cherokee with the Iroquois, and the plains tribes with the Sioux and Ojibwe).

I've tried to represent native cultures in other parts of the world, too, which is why the Tupi, Olmec, Yanomami, Khoisan, Congo and Ainu are among the groups added (joining the Maasai, Maori, Polynesians and Aborigines from previous releases).

The Greeks can be divided, too, and they will be in 4.0 to some degree (as will be Persian groups and Arabic groups and Mongol groups, etc). But for this release I'm not entertaining the Greece vs. Macedon debate, and I'm keeping Alexander where he has been since Civ I. Amra's modpack will have Macedon separate from Greece, and as it is modular, it can easily be dropped into Gold.

Codetalker? Why not Horse Whisperer?

'Codetalker' is the name the Navajo, themselves, use for the WWII soldiers that relayed code in the Pacific theatre against the Japanese.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_talker
http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq61-4.htm
http://www.navajo-codetalker.com/

I'm not sure where "Horse Whisperer" fits into any of this.

(I don't think Navajo, Apache or Hopi were talking code - except to non-Native Americans.

And I don't think German Panzers were firing shells - except at non-Germans. :)

Seriously though, they were talking in code...well, they were just talking, of course, but their language was part of the code used.

Read the links above and you'll see what the role of the codetalker was. You seem to be assuming that I came up with the term and that it's some reference to their language being different. That isn't the case. But you have to read a bit on Navajo language to understand why it was used in this way.

BTW, I think both terms are nuts): Indians refers just as much to India as Native Americans. Isn't there a "Native American" name for "Indians" - like Upaajut?)

Well, 'Codetalkers' is a Navajo term and a US Marine term. I'm not sure why you're bringing up the term 'Indians', and 'Horse Whisperer' is also something you brought up. I don't know how they relate here.

And yes, all the civilization names of the Native Americans in 4.0 - save Sioux and Iroquois - are derived from Native American names from themselves.

Anishnaabek is Ojibwe for many people.
Aniyonega is Cherokee for people.
Dinnehih is Navajo for clan.
Ni-Mii-Pu is Nez Perce for people.
Piliwni is Me-wauk for people.
Tillikum is Chinook for people.
Upaajut is Inukttitut for many people.
Vo'estaneo'o is Cheyenne for people.

Codetalker? Why not Horse Whisperer? (I don't think Navajo, Apache or Hopi were talking code - except to non-Native Americans. BTW, I think both terms are nuts): Indians refers just as much to India as Native Americans. Isn't there a "Native American" name for "Indians" - like Upaajut?)

* My assumption is that the Code Talker reference is to the use of Navajo's in creating codes for WW II communications. Many of these codes were _not_ native, linguistically correct Navajo. So, in that sense, they were talking in code.

* No, there isn't a single name for Native Americans. You're talking about, literally, hundreds of tribes, dozens of identifiable linguistic groups, and cultural traditions that are staggering in their diversity. Even the grossest groupings that I've seen only manage to reduce North American Native Americans into about a half dozen identifiable groups (which gets even more complicated after 1850: the forced relocation to the midwest created a "melting pot" of traditions, and the generation of several new strains).

* My assumption is that the Code Talker reference is to the use of Navajo's in creating codes for WW II communications.

I know - that's beside the point: using a WWII phenomenon for an Indian/Native American UU seems real anachronistic.:mischief:

* No, there isn't a single name for Native Americans.

I seriously doubt this; I know Indian/Native Americans have a term to describe themselves (like in English "man"/"people"). One just needs to pick one. (Not being Indian/Native American myself, I don't know the term, but it exists.)

I seriously doubt this; I know Indian/Native Americans have a term to describe themselves (like in English "man"/"people"). One just needs to pick one. (Not being Indian/Native American myself, I don't know the term, but it exists.)

Well, you're wrong. The Iroquois have a term, the Sioux have a term, the Pueblo have a term. But they're all different terms, because they all speak different languages.

You're repeating my words.

As I said, one just has to pick one.;)

Well 'Europeans' have different languages, but that's still a perfectly acceptable term.

"Europeans" is a European term...

You made my point for me: you want to do away with the Spanish, English, French, and German civs and just play with a single European civ? OK, go for it. But that's most definitely _not_ the philosophy behind CIV Gold.

Also, although I think this point will be lost, the term European is neither neutral nor historically uncontested. It is also incredibly recent in terms of any claim to provide a trans-national identity.

Your "point" is beside mine: I'm not talking about Europeans - which fits perfectly as a description of all European peoples (so much so that no one contests the term) - but about what we call "Native Americans" (or "Indians"): both these terms are, basically European - Europeans named the "Americas" and - mistakenly - the "Indians".

Anyway, I'm done repeating myself; clearly no Native American reads this.:wavey:

Your "point" is beside mine: I'm not talking about Europeans - which fits perfectly as a description of all European peoples (so much so that no one contests the term) - but about what we call "Native Americans" (or "Indians"): both these terms are, basically European - Europeans named the "Americas" and - mistakenly - the "Indians".

Anyway, I'm done repeating myself; clearly no Native American reads this.:wavey:

I'm sorry, but I'm not understanding what you are asking, exactly.

In Canada, they refer to themselves most commonly as 'First Nations', although the term 'Native Americans' is used frequently.

In the US, the term 'American Indians' is most common, with 'Native Americans' also used.

I don't think Firaxis was mistaken to use to term 'Native Americans'. I just think they tried to fit too many cultures under one umbrella.

In Canada, they refer to themselves most commonly as 'First Nations', although the term 'Native Americans' is used frequently.

In the US, the term 'American Indians' is most common, with 'Native Americans' also used.

Thank you - that clarifies a lot!

I don't think Firaxis was mistaken to use to term 'Native Americans'. I just think they tried to fit too many cultures under one umbrella.

I agree - that was my point (more or less)...

BTW: any news on CIV Gold 4.0?:confused:

I agree - that was my point (more or less)...
Then I apologize. It read to me like your post taking just about the opposite position.

:hatsoff: No harm, no foul! (I do like playing the devil's advocate...):devil:

Not an official date right now, but the 18th is looking doable.

The 18th would be perfect! It's the first annual Louis Riel Day in Manitoba, and I could celebrate it by playing a marathon game of Civ Gold as Louis Riel

today is the 18th...;)

Yes it is. Any news?

Not an official date right now, but the 18th is looking doable.

Doable - not done (in about 25 mins. it'll be the 19th - officially...):hmm:

to bad. Last day of my long weekend. (faked sick at work :lol: ) just so i can play civ gold.

Also may i request that you DON'T use automic gamer for hosting the link? waiting just to download it is boring lol.

Hi guys,

I'm going to make an official announcement on the status page.

My father suffered a mild heart attack a couple of days ago and he has to have triple bypass surgery on Thursday or Friday. I'm heading out east tomorrow with my wife and kids to be there and won't be returning until Monday.

He's an older man - 86 - but is in great shape (and in great spirits right now) and the doc fully expects him to pull through with flying colours.

This has made the past few days a bit hectic. We were planning to release on Wednesday the 20th (we have the complete build done but are just squashing bugs like bad tags, typos, missing buttons, etc.), but because I'll be gone, the release will be next week (unless I can manage to get everything done tonight and tomorrow afternoon - unlike, though, as I have to pack for me and the kids).

We do, however, have our final build done with all the civs and leaders we're going to have - and it looks damn good, I must say.

If I can get things done tonight, Fierabras will create an installer and will upload it. I will have my laptop so I can make the link and announcement from anywhere.

So everything is done. We are just tweaking and catching things we missed.

I'll post an update tomorrow.
Cheers,
D

Civ 4 can wait, your father can not. I'm sure we'll all understand.

Besides, there are plenty of things to do (and play)

Quite understandable. Thank you for dropping a line about this. I hope your father does well.

I lost my own father a couple of years ago to a stroke, so I can appreciate the hectic - and the time you took to inform us all. (Best wishes to your father!)

Best wishes to your dad, Wyz.

Well, I was able to get an enormous amount of work done last night and today, and we're very close to done. Fierabras has had a crazy weekend, as well, so while we're close, we're not ready to release right now.

It does look, however, like we can still release before week's end. Obviously if things do not go well for my family, this will not be the case.

Thanks to everyone for their support.

Cheers,
D

I'm sure everyone agrees if I say we appreciate all the trouble you guys go through.:salute:

(Just wondering: is CIV Gold team down to you two extraordinaires? Seeing as you keep posting on the Other suggestions thread - would some sort of help be welcome?)

Keep well and bon voyage! (Feeling quite French at the moment...);)

Well, we're still getting a lot of help from Amra, as always. And C.Roland and bernie14, among others, have done some awesome work for us.

But it's basically the two of us doing the assembly and testing, plus the writing and art, as required.