Hi everybody. I wanted a quick feedback of the comunity regarding an enhanced Viking scenario, as discussed in KingArthurs "Going Viking 2".

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4579418&postcount=68

From my view "Going Viking 2" together with Plotinus "Rood and the Dragon", quite completes the "Viking age" scenario range. Since KingArthur wants to take a long break from Moding now, he brought up the idea, that I could give it a shot and enhance the "Viking age" a bit more.

Regarding this I do have two questions:
A.) Is there sufficient interest in such a scenario?
B.) Are there people willing to help me to create the scenario?

I am both interested and willing. Count me in! Yet I´m working on my own MOD (homemade Fall of Rome), so i won´t be able to devote much time to this...

Could be good! You need to think about what gameplay elements will be added to make it a worthwhile project, I think - it ought to be more than just Going Viking II with a bigger map. But I like the idea of SS victory conditions, colonisation of Vinland, and so on, so it could be good fun. I don't have time to help out, but of course feel free to rip ideas from my scenario if it fits.

Could be good! You need to think about what gameplay elements will be added to make it a worthwhile project, I think - it ought to be more than just Going Viking II with a bigger map. But I like the idea of SS victory conditions, colonisation of Vinland, and so on, so it could be good fun. I don't have time to help out, but of course feel free to rip ideas from my scenario if it fits.

I was thinking somthing like that Plotinus, it ought to be Viking III for Civ III ;). SS victory will definitely be in, if I decide to go for it.

Regarding ripping some ideas, thanks for the offer. I was honestly thinking to use some parts of your Tech-Tree for the British and European Civs. Maybe this way Viking III could kind of continue(concentrate), where Rood ended -> The Viking Invasion. I also might open up all Civs to be playable, with a different victoryfocus for each culture.

My ideas so far:

Vikings:
Norway -> SS-Victory via Vinland colonization and/or Conquest of Ireland
Denmark -> Conquest of England(Installation of the Danelaw), Normandy
Sweden -> SS-Victory via Finland and/or Baltic colonization/conquest

Western Europe:
France and Germany - Unification of the former Frankish Empire
Germans might get another focus on colonizing to the East.
Friesland - I am unsure yet. Maybe connected with trade, ...

Eastern Europe:
Baltic Tribes -> Kingdom of Lithuania
Slavic Tribes -> Kingdom of Poland
Finnish Tribes -> Rebuff the Swedish ?

Great Britain:
Anglo Saxons -> conquer England ?
Celtic Tribes -> conquer England ?
Welsh Tribes -> Kingdom of Wales ?
Scots, Picts -> conquer Scotland ?
Irish -> Unite Irland and rebuff Vikings ?

Natives(Greenland and North America):
Survive ;), but I don't think they should be playable.

There could also be a focus on Christianization, not sure yet.
SS-Victory is probably just going to be possible for the Vikings.
But all other CIVs can win through Victorypoints, Wonders etc.
Something like the crowning of a leader to the King(Wonder) of e.g. Lithuania could directly lead to a victory.

@Takhisis: Any help is welcome of course, and if it is just feedback.

Ideas (I could help if I find time TIME! TIME!! Where are you!! :cry: ) :

First, put arrows in the techtree!! I never played that scenario only because these arrows where not there! Even though the subject was very interesting and it's downloaded on my computer. If I have time, I could do that to help you.
Natives: weak units, but inexpensive, stealth attack, movement of two (or all terrains as road) and ignore movement cost of forests.
Buildings needing the following ressourcesto be built: whales in Groenland, Iceland, Markland and Vinland. Wood in Markland. Grapes in Vinland. These buildings may produced "treasures" with the (reverse???) return the flag thing. (Refere to the Western African civs in Plotinus Desert and Mountain scenario)
Wine ressource shall be beside Skrælingar cities and are necessary for the SS building victory. Leiff Erikson Voyage?????

It certainly sounds ambitious now! I don't know if KingArthur has mentioned it, but he was working on a scenario way back when which was entitled something the North Atlantic Archipelago mod, which was similar to what you're thinking of, with all the different playable civs from the different groups. It never came to anything, possibly partly because it was over-ambitious; it was originally started by gael but he didn't finish it. I think Go Viking was sort of put together as a less ambitious version. It might be worth looking up the old thread here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=59151) and perhaps seeing if there are any useful ideas there too.

It certainly sounds ambitious now! I don't know if KingArthur has mentioned it, but he was working on a scenario way back when which was entitled something the North Atlantic Archipelago mod, which was similar to what you're thinking of, with all the different playable civs from the different groups. It never came to anything, possibly partly because it was over-ambitious; it was originally started by gael but he didn't finish it.

I aggree with Plotinus on the fact it's pretty ambitious now. Therefore, I think it would be preferable to attack one idea at the time, starting to the most desirable or wanted modifications. This way, it won't end up in fish tail if you or your colaborators (including me perhaps) don't have time to work steadily on it. For instance, you should start by including everything regarding the conquest of Vinland and the other western Atlantic colonies. Then, when everything concerning these additions will be completed, you should start to work on the other concepts.

This, way, if you find in an unknown number of months that you have no more time to work on this, at least you will be able to release something...

This sounds interesting. If you need any help, just call.

Hey Mentat, I´m making a new map for Europe (based on a map at civ3.com, but changed) and i´ll probably have finished it by monday (if not before) so you can have it.

Another possible SS-Victory for Sweden... :rolleyes: :

http://visindavefur.hi.is/myndir/istanbul_020704.jpg

You forgot the patrons of the varangian guard ;)

Another possible SS-Victory for Sweden... :rolleyes: :

http://visindavefur.hi.is/myndir/istanbul_020704.jpg

Looks very much like the Aya Sofyia, the former Hagia Sophia (I guess I spelled it wrong in Roman and Turkish ;)). Well this could be another possibilty, but Byzantine and Constantinopel won't be on the map, ... so I am not sure. The Normanns also plundered Rome a few times, but its not on the map either. I must say, eventhough I walked through this awesome church/mosque for quite a long time, I didn't discover anything like that. I found the cherubim and seraphim (winged, animalheaded angels) and the Christian mosaics already imposing, but I didn't find any sign of Viking activity. Very impressing and also an interesting contrast to the arabian writings in the back. Good Picture! ;)

You forgot the patrons of the varangian guard

Can you offer some more information about that guard?
I must admit, that I do not have a very sophisticated knowledge about the Vikings and Skandinavia (I am much better regarding the Mespotamian history), so all infos are welcome.

Hey Mentat, I´m making a new map for Europe (based on a map at civ3.com, but changed) and i´ll probably have finished it by monday (if not before) so you can have it.

Thanks, I will definitely have a look on it. Though I really want to have that North Atlantic scale for the Vikings.

Looks very much like the Aya Sofyia, the former Hagia Sophia (I guess I spelled it wrong in Roman and Turkish ;)). Well this could be another possibilty, but Byzantine and Constantinopel won't be on the map, ... so I am not sure. The Normanns also plundered Rome a few times, but its not on the map either. I must say, eventhough I walked through this awesome church/mosque for quite a long time, I didn't discover anything like that. I found the cherubim and seraphim (winged, animalheaded angels) and the Christian mosaics already imposing, but I didn't find any sign of Viking activity. Very impressing and also an interesting contrast to the arabian writings in the back. Good Picture! ;)


Here is another image of that inscription:
http://globetrotter-games.com/travel/Photo2004Balkan/040907_400_Istanbul_Hagia_Sofia_Rune_inscription_b y_Halvdan.jpg
and the source where I took that picture:
http://visindavefur.hi.is/svar.asp?id=4790

I aggree that i would be way too complicated to include the mediterranean region in the mod, though. It's just amazing and almost unbelievable to realize that the same civilisation discovered America, sacked Constantinople, conquered Brithish islands, Normandy and colonized Groenland and Iceland!! All in the very middle of Middle Age!!!!

Here´s the preview of the map so far...
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/356/biprevmq9.th.jpg (http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=biprevmq9.jpg)

A) Yes
B) Yes

My 2 pennies:
You could do no better than use the Rood as your benchmark and make a Viking equivalent of that scenario. Try to get it across 3 or 4 'ages' and keep the main focus on the Vikings. You will find that this is an ambitious task itself but it will keep you focused and is perfectly achievable.

Here´s the preview of the map so far...
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/356/biprevmq9.th.jpg (http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=biprevmq9.jpg)
That's a fine looking map Takhisis. However, I think that the area that best relates to the Vikings is the one previewed by Mentat. Viking fleets did raid Christian and Muslim Spain, Italy and even possibly the Eastern Med. but they preferred softer targets. I remember seeing a film in my younger days (can't remember its name now) where the vikings being captured by the Moors were forced to jump down a giant blade legs akimbo - nasty execution method - funny that's the only bit of that film that sticks in my head.

Anyhoo, I'm getting off track here. I think one thing that any map featuring vikings should consider is River Navigation - that might be hard to achieve considering scale.

I remember seeing a film in my younger days (can't remember its name now) where the vikings being captured by the Moors were forced to jump down a giant blade legs akimbo - nasty execution method - funny that's the only bit of that film that sticks in my head.


I just had to google it :)

http://www.net-monster.com/classicfilms_longships.html

The execution device was the "Mare of Steel" which you had to ride down! The link has a pic if you're feeling brave.:eek:

Sorry for the threadjack.

@KingArthur:
Thanks for encouraging me. It seems as if I have got to do it now. ;)
And thanks for the input, I might have to watch that film, eh?
Concentrating on the Vikings, hmm? Yes, I shall do that.

Regarding the map:
Gorgeous preview of the map Takhisis, and I am sure it will be great for quite a number of scenarios. But as KingArthur already statet, I would prefer to concentrate on the North, West and East.
I have cropped the map anew, and added some space in the east, to allow the Lake Lagoda settlings for the Swedish. I am reworking it now, making it more accurate and adding the resources etc.

As a counterpart to the Germans I might add the Magyars in the south east, maybe just in a nomadic form. A lot of europe and scandinavia will be covered with woods, making settlements scarce.

@beboy:
Thanks for the links. It contains very interesting information, and I finally know what it was about the varangian guard :).

Information about the following regions is highly interesting now.
Tribes and Culture in the Baltic and Finnish areas -> Pre-Viking!
I have some info about the Slavic tribes and cultures, but hardly enough yet.
Thanks for the assistance.

Edit: I forgot about the River Navigation. Well it would be nice and very realistic to have in the game, but I fear its impossible at this scale. I will think of a way to represent this.

You should also make the north very moutainous to control the population. The scandinavian countries are not as rich and lush as the south. The locations suitable for large mediveal cities are not as common as else where.

Edit: I forgot about the River Navigation. Well it would be nice and very realistic to have in the game, but I fear its impossible at this scale. I will think of a way to represent this.

I reckoned it would be impossible to achieve at that map scale.

What about allowing Viking Workers to build Longphorts (ship camps). These would of course be Airfields with modified graphics. Raiders and other viking units with an Airdrop ability could then use the Longphort to raid far inland (say 4 or 5 squares). Of course you would have to limit the spots where airfields could be built but this could be done by putting a resource prerequisite on the worker job and placing the required resource next to key rivers.

@KingArthur:
Excellent idea, never though of such a way to do it.
We shall give it a try, we promise. ;)

For now I will concentrate on the backbone of the scenarion though.
So the map goes first, .... Unfortunately University is starting tomorrow for me, myself and I. But there will be time for the scenario.

The map is a good place to start. I took a stab at an extended map a couple of months back (actually Jan this year). It just goes eastwards to include the Swedes, Balts and Finns. You may get some usage out of it - city placement, city names, leader names etc.

Here´s another, newer preview of the map as I finished it yesterday night:
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7973/biprev2cy7.th.jpg (http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=biprev2cy7.jpg)

What about allowing Viking Workers to build Longphorts (ship camps). These would of course be Airfields with modified graphics. Raiders and other viking units with an Airdrop ability could then use the Longphort to raid far inland (say 4 or 5 squares). Of course you would have to limit the spots where airfields could be built but this could be done by putting a resource prerequisite on the worker job and placing the required resource next to key rivers.
Why not have a special terrain used only for riverside (could be the Flood Plains, with changed names and no illness) and only allow airdrops to happen there?

Why not have a special terrain used only for riverside (could be the Flood Plains, with changed names and no illness) and only allow airdrops to happen there? That's a better idea Takhisis.

You could have a "riverside" terrain that doesn´t allow you to build cities because of the fear the people have of sudden viking raids. But shouldn´t you make their transports into air-carriers or anything like that?