Assuming that I have a hill/forest/plains or hill/forest/grassland, does it make any since to build a lumbermill that will only give me +1 hammer (+2 with railroad) when I can build a mine that will give me +2 hammer (+3 with railroad) and an immediate chop rush?

It seems to me the only time Lumbermills make since are on flat squares when I need additional hammers over the long run.:confused:

Depends... How much do you value half a health point?

I believe next to river you get an extra commerace point with lumbermils. I could be wrong. My theory mine away, and later if you need food, windmils.

I believe next to river you get an extra commerace point with lumbermils. I could be wrong.
Yep, you're wrong. No extra commerce from lumbermills, you just get back the commerce the forest was costing you.

Always mine the hill.

The health is not worth all those hammers you lose waiting for lumbermills and missing the chop. Plus you don't want enemies hiding in a forest hill.

You actually LOSE a commerce point for having a forest, and you only regain it with a lumbermill. You never regain it if the lumbermill is on the corner of a river.

Yep, you're wrong. No extra commerce from lumbermills, you just get back the commerce the forest was costing you.

Actually I do not think I am. I just checked and next to river a lumber camp gives one extra commerce point.

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/#Landscape

The health is not worth all those hammers you lose waiting for lumbermills and missing the chop. Plus you don't want enemies hiding in a forest hill.
Of course, when you can't even build lumbermills, mine the hill. But, if you have the choice, it's sometimes not as cut-and-dry. (Though, I usually go with the mine)

Actually I do not think I am. I just checked and next to river a lumber camp gives one extra commerce point.
Again, they give you back that one commerce you lose for keeping the forest there. A mine on a grassland hill next to a river with a railroad will give you 1F4H1C. A lumbermill in a forest on a grassland hill on a river with a railroad will give you 1F4H1C.

Thanks, thats what I thought.

Assuming that you have the tech for both Lumbermills and Mines, then it becomes a choice between:
Lumbermills: 1/2 Health.
Mine: 30 hammers, small % of discovering a resource each turn.

Generally I mine. The only time I build the lumbermill is when health is suffering in that city, perhaps due to a bunch of floodplains nearby.

I mine on all hills... Apart from that, the plains go to Cottages, and most of the grassland to farms. Others are workshops. I only use lumbermills on places with Tundra.

With a few exceptions, Mine = Lumbermill.

(Plains/forest + Lumbermill) = (Grass/Hill + Mine) = (Grass/Forest/Hill + Lumbermill). Grass/Forests or Plains/Hills just trade a food for a hammer, or vice versa.

That said, mine all hills. Why? Because (if there is a forest on the hill) you can chop the forest without any penalty! Building a mine there gives you the same yield as a lumbermill, and comes way earlier in technology.

However, if you want to include the health bonus of forests, just use the following formula:
Iff :yuck:, then 1:health: = 1:food:.

wow... I've been keeping a couple forests around for the later benefit of lumbermills, but I guess I've been wrong all this time.

Thanks for the question and the head's up!

The only reason for keeping forrested tiles around is for their aid in regenerating additional forrested tiles for chopping. ;)

wow... I've been keeping a couple forests around for the later benefit of lumbermills, but I guess I've been wrong all this time.

Thanks for the question and the head's up!

This thread is about forests on hills. Forests on flatland are more useful pre-lumbermills, especially if you have other tiles you can work while getting the free health bonus.

I like lumbermills. I can still get food out of the tile. By end game, a lumbermilled forest/grassland/hill with a railroad kicks out a LOT of hammers. Two food if I'm running state property.

I like lumbermills. I can still get food out of the tile. By end game, a lumbermilled forest/grassland/hill with a railroad kicks out a LOT of hammers. Two food if I'm running state property.
Nope, lumbermills don't get a food bonus under State Property.

^^Yeah, workshops do though. My favorite improvement of all is the workshop (post SP of course). If I have a production city near some floodplains, (once i get SP)forget about it . Those floodplain squares get workshoped right up! +3H? are you kidding me? I love it. Anyway, does ne one know if you can build a workshop on a hill? Maybe that would be overpowered.

Anyway, does ne one know if you can build a workshop on a hill? Maybe that would be overpowered.
You can't, but why would you? A mine with a railroad produces the same effect as a post-SP workshop without the dependence upon any particular civic.

Plus the chance to find a resource.

Plus the chance to find a resource.

Does anyone know the percentage chance to find a resource? I've never had the luxory of finding one, especially in a time of need.

Does anyone know the percentage chance to find a resource? I've never had the luxory of finding one, especially in a time of need.
0.01% per turn per available resource. Notice that it doesn't vary with game speed, so you're more likely to pop a resource at slower speeds.

you also have to be actively working the mine in order to discover a new resource.

Discovering new resources is a nice bonus, but I don't consider that bonus stronger than the health bonus forests bring.

As a general rule, if I can't build lumbermills, and I'll be working that hill anyways, I cut down the forest and build a mine. Otherwise, I leave the forest in place.

OTOH, the slower game speeds enhances the value of chopping a forest. Unit costs are proportionally smaller on slower game speeds, so you technically get more hammers by cutting it down, AND you're more likely to pop a resource with all those extra turns.

I've only played Marathon once, but I often play Epic games. In one game, my unit production city popped copper, iron, gems, gold, and coal during the course of a game... but they originally had jungles, so it wasn't like I had much of a choice.

Usually, a tundra forest gets a lumbermill - I avoid chopping them unless they're on rivers (for farms) simply because plain tundra sucks so much.

Plains hills get a mine, grassland hills get a mine if I can support it, otherwise they get a windmill - I'd much rather build cottages on the surrounding flat tiles for commerce than farms to run a mine most of the time.

everyone said so, and i say the same : mine those hills!
The only reason why i leave some of those forests on those hills is the lack of workers, and that's not a good reason!

About ressource popping, I have popped silver after a few turns in a mine, and I didn't notice at the moment,then I post the save in the "fix another trash" game thread (SG subforum), and see hey, I'm the only one who has silver, what are the others doing...
It happens really often if you mine a lot.
Of course, if you only work the cottages, you won't see any ressource popping ;)