Time for me to put some energy into the team again. Thought I should start a new summary thread early, instead of late.

Here's some things / questions I think we should discuss:

1) To what should we rename Delhi?

2) SL should utilize the lake instead of farm, for increased research (happy
limit is already reached).

3) We can gain nothing from being hostile towards another team this early in the game. Instead, we should try to build up trading with Aloha in the near future. I would advise our Foreign Minister to reply throughly and with friendlyness on Alohas latest posting.

4) As someone pointed out earlier, there is probably a long distance from us to our closest team. We should spend as little as we can on our military. Just enough to hold off the barbarians.

5) I remember a map with good possible city sites from before. Has anyone updated that? Which of the copper city sites should we expand to first?

6) Some long term research goals would be could (I'm all for the religous path for now, but after that?)

How about Alphabet as a short term goal, to facilitate tech-trading with Aloha?

also since we got a big space we should concentrate on expanding

I’m back, though I still do not have internet at home yet, so participation maybe spotty.

Jojon has made a good list for us to go threw, I’ll add my thoughts:


1) Should we rename Dehli?
1) definitely rename the city at next opportunity, continuing with the monopoly railroad theme.

2) SL should utilize the lake instead of farm, for increased research (happy
limit is already reached).
2) looks like Jeejeep already took care of that for us.

3) We can gain nothing from being hostile towards another team this early in the game. Instead, we should try to build up trading with Aloha in the near future. I would advise our Foreign Minister to reply throughly and with friendlyness on Alohas latest posting.
3) agreed. I think we should authorize our UN rep to maintain a frequent and regular dialog with Aloha to build up relations. Eventually (long from now) we may suggest a sort of North/South relationship where we aid each other.

4) As someone pointed out earlier, there is probably a long distance from us to our closest team. We should spend as little as we can on our military. Just enough to hold off the barbarians.
4) agreed, because I said that. :)

Updated:
5) I remember a map with good possible city sites from before. Has anyone updated that?
5) Jeejeep has suggest a sit for our next city:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=186751&page=2
We should either confirm his suggestion or perhaps start an independent thread to discus city local. I’ll look at the issue myself tonight.

6) Some long term research goals would be could (I'm all for the religous path for now, but after that?)
6) A good topic to bring up. We should all give this some thought.

Well if anyone has a basic plan i can write up our reserch goals in a more complex way

Originally Posted by jojon
6) Some long term research goals would be could (I'm all for the religous path for now, but after that?)

After looking at the 1320 save I have several suggestions:

A) :hammers:Delhi - I see no need to build a warrior in Delhi as we already have two warriors there, one of which should immediately leave for our copper city site. Further military buildup should wait until we have axemen or archers. Instead I would suggest a Granary followed by a Library, first to grow quickly in a tough city location (no great food source) and then to make use of the gold mines in researching new tech. A farm should also be built immediately following the completion of gold mine #1.

B) :hammers:SL - as soon as Stonehenge finishes we agreed to produced a settler for our copper city correct? Should we follow this with a library or a Buddhist Missionary, we need to spread our religion to take advantage of organized religion once we reach it.

C) :hammers:B&O - what are we building after the work boat finishes? This question must be answered before our next turn! I suggest prioritizing growth and very slowly building a barracks. This way B&O will have the capacity to quickly produce quality (well, +2 exp any way) troops once our copper city comes online. Growth is more important right now than production. I would say simply turn on “emphasize food” until we want to time the completion of the barrack with the completion of connecting copper to our internal trade network.

D) :science:Short term research - after monotheism I would recommend Sailing, as it would be helpful for all three of our cities, particularly the two with freshwater lakes which make for good food production and commerce (and can’t be pillaged).

E) :science:Long term research - We have sometime before a decision must be made. In the near future we have a lot of early techs to fill in (hunting, archery, animal husbandry). If we figure out the Alphabet perhaps we could trade with Aloha for these early techs. I don’t have any good ideas past that at this point.

E_b) :science:Senior Scientist - I move that we create the position of “Senior Scientist” (or other tile such as “National Science Advisor”). Once nominated and approved, this person would be responsible for immediately opening a new thread in which research priorities and paths would be discussed. Additionally, the Senior Scientist would reserve and then continually edit the first post to show the agreed upon tech path. So, for example, right now it would read something like;

Current agreed upon Tech Path (in descending order):
- masonry
- polytheism
- organized religion
- ?

The Senior Scientist could also help keep track of potential tech trading opportunities.

F) :traderoute:Diplomacy - recommend authorizing our UN diplomat to open boarders with Aloha. Additionally, how about starting an independent “Diplomacy thread” so that our UN rep can post the regular exchanges and we (team loco) can discus adopting formal actions (tech trades, open boarders, war, resource trades, etc.) Actions taken could still be formally reported in the turn summary thread, but separating them out would help give our team a little more structure and order.

E_b) Senior Scientist - I move that we create the position of “Senior Scientist” (or other tile such as “National Science Advisor”). Once nominated and approved, this person would be responsible for immediately opening a new thread in which research priorities and paths would be discussed. Additionally, the Senior Scientist would reserve and then continually edit the first post to show the agreed upon tech path. So, for example, right now it would read something like;


hmm id like this idea and be willing to take the position
as long you keep me updated on the tech trees

Kahru, Good points there about :hammers:, and the other things too.
jeejeep, Be sure to account for these things as we make our next turn.

Lets give Karl a chance to show how good a :science: sience advisor he can be. I wouldn't mind helping with that myself, but as I'm starting a four-week :move::move::move::move: Australia/Southafrica-trip on Tuesday (:cool: ) I will not be able to help the team much in the near future.

One thing about :science:. If Aloha's diplomat is as friendly and active as he seems to be, maybe we could coordinate tech-trading :traderoute: with them even before one of the teams have discovered Alphabet? So both of our teams don't rush Alphabet.

koondrad, are you up for the task?

A lot to cover. First I'll give my turn summary, then my opinions. Sorry, but I think I may have to triple post to seperate my opinions and other things.

Units: Alpha wolf moves north, desert and more water.
One worker is building a mine on a gold hill, the other is about to move to make a road towards the copper city.

Cities: B&O finishes work boat, starts barracks on max growth.
140327
SL is still the same, stonehenge in two.
Delhi (needs name recommendation) continues, building a warrior. Better to be safe then sorry in my opinion, and I want a second for Karhu before I overrule myself.

Research: Masonry in one, polytheism next. Here is a screenshot of our tech tree for Karl.
140328

In response to Karhu and Jojon.

Jojon's 1-6.

1. Delhi- need a renaming suggestion.
2. Done
3. Fine with me, we need Konndrad for this.
4. Agreed, we just have to make sure not to get overrun by barbs. Maybe post axes to the chokes when we get them.
5. I like my city site, but we can have more discussion.
6. About Alphabet, look at my next post. I am not sure where to go next now.

Karhu's A-F

A. Agreed on everything except the warrrior, I am just scared of barbarians and it will still be at least ten turns until we hook up copper. We would have a hard time facing barb archers with our current defenses.

B. Agreed, I think the library first. My question would be if we should whip the settler, and if so, how much?

C. I did what you suggested, but am not sure it was the best idea. I would rather switch to a worker. Two workers for four cities isn't good enough for me.

D. I'm not sure how sailing would be so helpful, is there something I'm missing here?

E. Sorry, not really sure of my opinion here. The senior scientist is a good idea though, and I approve of Karl.

F. I like the idea of a diplomacy thread. Are you saying I should open borders with Aloha, or just that we should discuss it and get Konndrad's opinion.

Possibly the most important part of this turn. Makes me less than sure that we shouuld race to Alphabet. If they have neglected other techs to get it this early, perhaps we can trade with them to get it (unlikely).

Greetings, Loco.

I'm sure both our empires have developed since our last diplomatic encounter. For Innovia's part we may be on the verge of a ground-breaking innovation that will allow us to share knowledge with other civilizations.
Each of our civilizations have knowledge that the other don't have. Why not share this knowledge between us so that we may both be richer? While we will be putting our innovative efforts into making this sort of trading possible, why not collaborate? There's no reason that we both innovate the same innovations when we could be innovating different ones and trading, essiensially doubling the innovative capacity that any of us could have on our own.
I hope you will take our proposal into consideration, and the Innovians are as always open to any other innovative ideas that you might have.

Theoden,
Foreign Minister of Innovia

I):hammers:I see why you want an additional worker Jeejeep. However, we are really pushing the envelop here with our production, lots to get out in little time. Plus, there is no need to develop a tile that can’t be worked due to a small city population. I think two worker will be able to keep up with city growth for now, if we only developing the tile we intend to use immediately.

II):traderoute:Well I certainly say open boarder, and Jojon did as well, so if you support the idea then that’s three of us and that seems to make for consensus around here so... do it at the next available opportunity. It would be best and more proper if Konndrad gave us his opinion first, and then sent an email to Aloha since he is the UN rep.

III_a):science:Innovia and the Alphabet - we will have to be carful. I suggest a courteous but non-committing reply while we explore possibilities with Aloha, who I feel much more comfortable dealing with. This is sooner than I wanted to move, but I think we really need a rapid exchange of friendly messages to Aloha. Konndrad?

III_b):science:Ah! This is good news actually! Innovia founded Hinduism, so they are the team that is much closer than us to Monotheism. If they are taking the time to research the Alphabet we have a good shot of snagging Judaism. Stall in all trade negotiation with Innovia until just before we get Monotheism. We must not trade Masonry until the time is right.

IV):science:To answer your question about sailing - This would be quite a ways down the road so we can discuss this in the Science thread once Karl gets it up (I’ll third the nomination, we just need to decided if terms will coincide with the executive leader) but, Sailing would be helpful because two of our cities have fresh water lakes (2:food:, 2:commerce:) with a light house that become 3:food:, 2:commerce:. Which is pretty good and can’t be pillaged.

Well Lets Hope There Not Just pretending to like us and scout out our lands so they can kick our asses later on in the game
it also does look like there willing to trade techs with other teams

for our techs i think we should go for iron working to see if any iron is in our lands so we dont get a nasty suprise that an iron tile is 1 square outta of our citys working range

O and if we go for polythesuim has anyone got hinduisum

Hinduism is already claimed, which is why I was excited that Innovia was wasting time on the Alphabet. Means we can still steal Judaism.

Iron working is of course a good tech, but doesn’t do much for us now. We don’t need swordsmen, nor the ability to chop jungles. It’d be nice to know where iron is to get a little production boost, but I think that is secondary getting the Judaism/organized religion, which would give an immediate production boost to all buildings. Where a spiritual civ, we should abuse it.

So what should I tell Innovia? What's the general opinion on the matter?

So what should I tell Innovia? What's the general opinion on the matter?


First, if you thought it was a good idea....
Open a Diplomacy thread so we can keep this all together.

As for the reply...
Be friendly, and say you’re quite interested in this concept of “writing” words. Embellish, and have fun with it, but be non-committal.

Iron working is of course a good tech, but doesn’t do much for us now. We don’t need swordsmen, nor the ability to chop jungles. It’d be nice to know where iron is to get a little production boost, but I think that is secondary getting the Judaism/organized religion, which would give an immediate production boost to all buildings. Where a spiritual civ, we should abuse it.


well soppsee we get that we might as well reep the rewards form the money bonus if we get the religions great temple

But we might need to become prepared because if 1 of the teams is EXTREMLY hostile then we have a very weak desfense if they have a strong attack force

well soppsee we get that we might as well reep the rewards form the money bonus if we get the religions great temple

:religion: - we have more cities with Buddhism, so will want to prioritize that religion’s temple, unless we know Judaism spreads to one of our enemies (great for spying), which we could then shift over to. Eventually we’ll want religious temples for both because we’ll be building both types of building to keep our population happy.

But we might need to become prepared because if 1 of the teams is EXTREMLY hostile then we have a very weak desfense if they have a strong attack force

:strength: - Axemen are a much stronger defense than swords, and we are executing a strategy to get them up fairly quickly via copper. We have a good shot at iron in our existing cities (b&O would be ideal). Demographics show we are still close militarily, tech should be making up the difference for the most part. I would still say barbs are a much bigger threat than humans at this time.

Side note, how bout those diplomacy and science threads?

:traderoute: - It’s our turn and we have not contacted a Aloha about an Open boarders agreement!
We should do this now, as each turn provides a chance of seeding our religion into their empire so we can see exactly where they are. I suggest that Jeejeep takes action while playing the save, and that Koondrad send a corresponding email to Aloha. Both our teams need this agreement, as we are far behind in the financial departments.

:traderoute: - It’s our turn and we have not contacted a Aloha about an Open boarders agreement!
We should do this now, as each turn provides a chance of seeding our religion into their empire so we can see exactly where they are. I suggest that Jeejeep takes action while playing the save, and that Koondrad send a corresponding email to Aloha. Both our teams need this agreement, as we are far behind in the financial departments.
should we make the open borders a team descsion and open a poll on it?

Karl - should we make the open borders a team descsion and open a poll on it?

I've never see this team poll anything. It would be a good idea if everyone checked in regularly, but that doesn't seem to be the case. But hay, I'm the new guy so what do i know?

Jojon - we should try to build up trading with Aloha
Jojon and me make two, but know one else has EVER said what they think about trading with Aloha, despite the protracted discussion we have had on this. SO SPEAK UP!

This will be easier when koondrad gets the diplomacy thread up. He can hold polls on matters like this, and keep the discussion in a single local. But we are moving far to slow, this conversation is a week old and two people have voiced an opinion! :aargh:

Turn 72

Didn't realize this last turn, but Alpha wolf can see some Innovian borders. Send him over to investigate.
140509
One worker is still building a mine on the gold, the other is beginning a road towards copper city (my suggested location). If anyone wants another location, speak up now!

Cities:
B&O is still working on barracks, due in 28, but growth is very fast (4 turns).
SL unofficially finished stonhenge when I pressed next turn, starting on a settler next (need a consensus on whipping it).
Delhi will finish the warrior in three turns, still with very slow growth.

Research:
Finished Masonry, began on Polytheism in a fairly quick five turns.

Diplo:
Sent an OB offer to Aloha, as requested. We'll see if they accept.

Discussion: Urgent-Copper city site, (partially) whipping settler in SL.
Also renaming Delhi, a name for the copper city, and long-term stuff.

People, post, come on! These turns are crucial and I don't want to make decisions myself.

Units:
Alpha wolf spots an arabian/whateverteam warrior.
140639
Both workers still on the same tasks.

Cities:
SL finishes Stonhenge (perhaps we should put out an announcement)! Free obelisks in every city and we can see our position on the minimap. Also 2 GPP in SL. SL starts on a settler. Prod/food is maxed out to get it done in seven turns. I also want to whip it some, if I can get approval.
140638 140640
B&O has growth in two with fish online, barracks in 27.
Delhi has growth in 17 but a warrior in three.

Research: Polytheism in four turns at 100%

Diplo: Aloha sent a message back saying they needed to talk amongst the team. I told them to take their time.

Discussion: The same as last, and let's get some going.

Yes, Koondrad needs to announce our achievement.

B&O - as soon as we get organized religion B&O should switch production to 2 buddhist missionaries (won’t take long to produce) and get them to our other cities.

Delhi - should still be renamed to Pennsylvania Ave. or Reading Railroad, I don’t care which. And needs a farm to facilitate early growth, there is a nice grassy plain between the town and freshwater lake. With such slow growth, a granary should be the next item built.

SL - I say build a setter until there is only one turn left, and then whip him to roll production into a library.


http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140653&stc=1&d=1161227275copper city site.JPG
Copper city placement - I would rather see the copper city build in between the corn and copper. This will give it access to fress water, and a few extra grass tiles allowing it to become a decent cottage town. Of course we would lose one hill, and the city could not act as a conduit for ships crossing the continent, but we could make up for that here; http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140652&stc=1&d=1161227212future city site.JPG

I see the point, but I don't want it to be completely landlocked. I believe the city should be on the coast. Maybe on top of the copper or below the corn?

Three specific locations have been suggested for our up and coming settler to place roots and grow into a productive part of the Locopotamian Empire. All three spots are within 2 spaces of each other, but the differences are important and will lead to different types of cities down the road, so I’ve listed the pro’s and con’s of each site to help us decide.

All Sites make use of the Corn field and Copper deposit.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140653&d=1161226981

Site A) North of Copper deposit
:thumbsup: Pro:
-Allows sea units to pass from “Northern Sea” to “Eastern Sea”
-no tundra
-two hills for production
-coastal city, 7 coastal tiles
:thumbdown: Con:
-3 desert tiles
-no fresh water
-6 tiles for cottage placement (5 grass, 1 plains)

Site B) East of Corn field
:thumbsup: Pro:
-freshwater (+2:health:)
-9 tiles for cottage placement (7 grass, 2 plains)
:thumbdown: Con:
-not an coastal city (no lighthouse here), but three coastal tiles in workable area.
-2 desert tiles
-3 tundra tiles

Site C) South of Corn field
:thumbsup: Pro:
-freshwater (+2:health:)
-9 tiles for cottage placement (7 grass, 2 plain)
-coastal city, 3 workable coastal tiles.
:thumbdown: Con:
-4 tundra tiles
-one snow tile


My Opinion -
I believe we need to increase our science rate in both the near and mid term game. Site C seems to offer the best location to build a cottage industry.

Turn 74

Not much going on. Everything the same except one turn less on build, growth, etc.

The only news is that Aloha has agreed to open borders. We might also want to open borders with Innovia, as we know where they are and they don't know where we are.

Agreed on site C for the copper city.

C...................

Turn 75

Alpha wolf moves west and sees more Innovian borders. One worker finishes gold mine, starts grassland farm. The other is making a road to the copper city.
140979

B&O is now size three, with growth in five and a barracks in nine.
SL has a settler in five.
Delhi (forgot to rename) has a mine on the gold hill but is not working it, as it can now grow by using the lake until its borders expand.

Polytheism in two

i say move warrior to next hill to see mexmuim view bonus and have a little peak on horizen

it looks like they have 2 cities maybe 3

Turn 76

The major news of this turn is that Alpha wolf moved onto a forested hill and discovered that Innovia has copper.
141197

Other that that, things are just moving along.

SL has a settler in four.
B&O has a barracks in eight with growth in four. A worker is mining a hill so that it will have an improved tile to use once it grows.
Delhi (forgot to rename again :mad: ) has a warrior in 2 with growth in five.

We will finish Polytheism and start Monotheism next turn, after that I believe we are thinking of sailing, or maybe alphabet after that.

Copper Seems Like they will be building a strong milatary
we should best get some defence prepared just incase for an attacl

They can't attack us. They don't even know where we are.

very Big Search Partys Then?
and our warrior comeing to them give them some kind of clue where we are

I think our current plan will keep us safe from the threat of evil search parties. however, we do need to start talking about a research path after monotheism. Never got that science thread up. *Hint - Hint*

Turn 77

Polytheism -Monotheism is the news thhis turn. After that just press enter.

As Karhu said, we need discussion on our next tech choice. Any other discussion is also welcome.

ill write it up when i get home i got a class in 14 mins

Turn 78

Major news of this turn is exploration. On the bad side, an Innovian warrio has reached our eastern border, so they now know where we are. However, since we do not have open borders, they don't know much about us. On the good side, Alpha Wolf has discovered an Innovian city, Sinsburg. It is size one and appears to be undefended at the moment.
141515
edit: anyone know why the screenshot naming thing keeps showing up in my screenshots :mad:

Research is Monotheism in five, though when I have to turn down research next turn (3g, -4gpt) it will add on a turn.

SL has a settler in two.
B&O has a barracks in six with growth in two.
Delhi finished a warrior and started a granary in 60, though the time should go down once the city grows. The granary was per a Karhu suggestion in the second post of this thread and is open to debate.

We'll have to see if we can take the city next turn. doubtful. and they have a warrior at our border.

Why do we "have to"? It probably wouldn't work anyway and it would be bad in the long term.

"Bad"? razing an undefended city? :hmm: I guess TNT set a bad precedent...

Bad in the long term, meaning that Innovia has a warrior at our borders and knows where we are. We are in no shape to carry on a war right now. That city is not much of a prize either. They would just make another settler and replace it. Are we willling to slightly set back their growth to gain bad relations with Innovia forever?

No, not really... I was just setting it up for discussion...

Turn 79

Our discussion is irrelavant, as two warriors ended up blocking our path to Sinsburg. Alpha wolf moves west instead.
141708

Workers both finish their tasks. Next they will go to improve the copper city (name?) The settler for that city will be ready in a turn.

We will research monotheism in 4 at 90% with the aid of the gold mine.

Discussion: Name for the copper city (I renamed Delhi Reading, what is the last railroad?), More actions for workers, build orders for Reading (granary in 20), B&O (barracks in five), and SL (settler in one). Also discussion in the science and diplomacy threads.

Last railroad is Pennsylvania.

diplomacy:
I think we should keep talking with Aloha. gibberish mostly, but it'll help set us up for an alliance down the road.

science:
We've been talking about establishing a science thread since Oct 13, and it's been Karl's job to do so since Oct 14. I think we should open the job of Senior Scientist back up to nominations again.

Also, I suggest we pursue a path that would allow us to build the great lighthouse. +2 trade routes in all coastal cities would be a major benefit to our commerce in the short and long run. We are an industrious nation so we should take advantage of that. I believe we only need one more tech, sailing. this is particularly important because 9/10 cities on this map will be coastal, we don't want to give someone else this advantage.

Turn 80

News is that B&O finished the settler and I sent it to the approved copper city spot. I started it on a buddhist temple so that it could grow a little (4 turns).

Everything else is still on schedule. Here's a screenshot of our empire:
141830

And the demographics:
141831

They show that we're doing pretty well. Looking at the graphs I can see that Innovia is the only team ahead of us in production but the only team behind us in gold.

Discussion: These gold mines can finance lots of expansion, where do we expand next? What to build in B&O (I'd go with Buddhist missionaries to get all of our cities converted)?

Screen shot of Reading: http://img285.imageshack.us/my.php?image=reading875bcxo0.jpg

I think Reading should be a science via the sea city. once we have a lighthouse there the fresh water lake will produce 3:food: that combined with the farm will allow the gold mines to be run with out the population suffering. population after that can work coastal tiles, earning us some :commerce: while breaking even with :food:. eventually we can turn the grasslands into cottages and switch from the sea to them.

this extra :gold: would really help us in science and expansion!

Our capitol would make a super :gp: Farm. good enough production to use our Industrial trait to build wonders (adding more :gp: points), and good food, plus fresh water for farms later on.

on both these notes, i think the great lighthouse and colossus should be high priorities to aid with everything stated above.

oh yes, and Jeejeep is right- we should continue to expand, asap.

As for expansion, we have quite a host of choices all around, so it just comes down to what our priorities our. These are the sites i've identified, please feel free to point out other sites you feel strongly about and i'll edit them into this post.

Site A) directly north of the incense. The main advatages to this site is giving us stone to build the hanging gardens in the not to distant future and providing a through passage for our navy from one ocean to the next. crossing this with a boat and running north maybe the fastest way to establish trade with aloha as well.

Site B) on the tundra tile north-west of fish. Looks bad you say? well, i think we could use a 2nd production city for military purposes. this is close (low maintenance) has 4 hills for mines, and fish to provide enough :food: to work the mines. one mine is even already built! plus fresh water to ensure the city will get big enough to work all those hills, we have so many :health: resource we probably don't need it.

Site C) on the bare tundra hill. Crab, double deer, corn, and copper, this city is a resource mecca. lots of food and decent production, this city could be a :gp: farm if people do not want to reserve our capitol for that. I'll have to think about that myself.

Site D) In the crook of the river on the naked plain. one of our few sites with a happiness resource, plus a bonus one for trading. Excellent site to increase our :commerce: both near and long term! Although it'll be awhile till we can tap into the spices, it wouldn't hurt to establish this city now while those woods can be use for :hammers: for building the bare necessities (granary, library, lighthouse).

Site E) the desert tile west of the west gold deposit. Wheat, gold, a fresh water lake, but to far for the :health: bonus. A fine but limited Commerce site.