Too long have we slaved away on demi-god and emperor! Too long have we been kept from the promised land of a deity victory by the cheating AI and :spear: ! It's time to put an end to our suffering and achieve a Deity Win! (Or at least, let's give it a good shot ;) )

This game will be played with [c3c] updated to the latest patch. You have 24 hours to claim it and 48 to play. The first rotation will be 20 turns and piece and 10 turns a piece from then on. We can lower that to 5 in the Industrial age if we find it necessary at that point.

I'm looking for a team of at least three people who are comfortable on emperor to attempt a win on Deity. I am open to suggestions on rules, but I want to make the game "fair". That means no archipelago, no choosing AI civs and we cannot be a civ with an uber UU that will win the game on it's own (so no Iroquois). I think that we should go with continents %70 water and 2'nd tier civ. We don't have to take the first start we get, but we also won't reroll until we get a 3 cow start with a luxury. All the other standard no exploit rules apply.


We can take this slowly, especially at the start. With a lot of discussion and planning we can win our spurs and be better Civers at the same time! So start signing up and we can decide on the settings and roll a map!

PS: This is going to be my first SG in years, so be patient with me :lol:

Edit: Spelling :wallbash:

How many players are you looking for? I'd play if it were a large number or if I had 72 to play (Some days I have no time, and others I have plenty).

I think Ottomans/China/Korea would be good 2nd teir civs.

I have played some limited games over the past eight months. If this one goes sign me up.

I'll join :D

Welcome aboard all! :woohoo:

How many players are you looking for? I'd play if it were a large number or if I had 72 to play (Some days I have no time, and others I have plenty).

I think Ottomans/China/Korea would be good 2nd teir civs.

I'm looking for at least four, and if you play we'll have four. We could let a fifth in but I suggest that we decide what civ to play, roll some starts and begin to move through the rotation and if a fifth person shows up they can join in. Of course 72 hours is fine with me, the important thing is that we are willing to stick it through to the end and not have long delays between turns.

Once we decide on a civ we I can roll some starts and we can begin. I like your suggestions, but I also think that India has some very good potential. I recently played a game as India and it was fairly vanilla, but the War Elephants can give a boost in the early middle ages which is when you usually begin to fall behind on Deity. That will give us a good GA at the perfect time, and they also require no resources so we don't get really unlucky and have no iron or something. Furthermore their traits are decent without giving a noticeable, game changing boost that one could grow reliant on (such as seafaring, agricultural or expansionist). Just weigh in with your opinions.

So far on the roster we have (in order of sign up):

Lkysam
Empiremaker
Sir Bugsy
Vind2
nerovats

It's late right now, but just check back in and we can hopefully start within a couple of days.

I'd like to join as well. Haven't played in a long time and am looking foreward to playing again. Used to be able to win on emperor with my eyes closed but will be a bit rusty. Any civ will do for me. They all have their strong points.

Good luck all. :)

I've got to learn (at least watch) how the experts do it. :thumbsup:

As for rolls I am a big fan of taking the first thing the computer gives you. It makes it more challenging.

I also don't care about the civ. I have found that each has there own unique flavor, benefits and challenges.

I'd like the Ottamans :hammer: Any other civ(almost) I'm fine with though.

I've been looking at other SG's because I haven't done this in a while. Is it usual to have everyone play the first 20 turns and then choose the one we like best to stick with? If not, who wants to start off the game for us? I am terrible at the very early game so one of you can do it ;)

It's not how I used to play, usually the topic starter sets it off. Sounds a bit like a cheat to all play the first 20, as more of the terrain will be known.

Do we want barbs? Or just random. I like everything random, just normal size world.

The larger the world the faster the tech pace. We should do continents just because the tech spead on pangea is SOO fast

The SG lead sets a batting order and we play. First player plays 20, everyone else plays ten. I don't go for this pick the best start stuff. If the leader has any spoiler information they usually play last. when I have been the lead, I have usually tried to set up the batting order so that lesser experienced players have experienced players on either side of them.

Actually, I think it is: smaller the world, faster the tech pace.

Let's answer some questions. Being Honest is in your favor.

Can you consistantly beat emperor?
Have you ever played above emperor?
What difficulty, did you win?
Do you use advanced game strats? (MMing etc)
Have played an emperor game recently?

Actually, I think it is: smaller the world, faster the tech pace.
Besides tech cost I mean there are more civs to know a tech for a discount.

Can you consistantly beat emperor?
Have you ever played above emperor?
What difficulty, did you win?
Do you use advanced game strats? (MMing etc)
Have played an emperor game recently?
I used to beat emperor all the time, I haven't played a solo game in quite a while. I have spent much of this year either preparing for a recording, doing a recording or working on the post production of a recording.

I have won at SID, although only twice, played and lost plenty.

Yes, I use all accepted tactics and strategies. Please know that I become very grumpy when people start using exploits. See the LK or RBCiv rules sets.

What is the purpose of this line of questioning?

Is it usual to have everyone play the first 20 turns and then choose the one we like best to stick with?

I don't think that's the usual practice. The two games that I'm aware of in which all players played the same round and them compared starts were both Training Day Games, rather than standard SGs.

Good luck!

I hate barbs, but I agree that we should probably put them in to be fair. I don't really like the idea of just taking the very first start we get, I only do that when I'm playing on emperor or lower (not on demi-god), because you often start in a vast expanse of tundra or jungle. I think that it is reasonable to choose a decent start since this is a game where we know that we are going to have trouble on this difficulty any way.

As for the world, I think standard size is good, large maps tend to be harder and need a much larger time commitment. Continents are also good. I usually do old worlds but it doesen't matter to me what age we choose. Barbs are a tough question, more barbs tend to make it much harder for the human player because the AI get so many starting units. On the other hand, if we can win with barbs then we can definitely win without barbs.

Have we decided on Ottomans as a civ? I've never tried them before but we can give it a shot! Anybody else have a preference?

As to Vind2's questions, I assume that he is asking them so that we can space the experienced players out. For me: I can win consistently on demi-god provided I get a decent start. I have played on deity, but I didn't win. I don't know what you mean by advanced tactics, I MM workers, I know the basics of settler factories, I know to use CXXC for my core and how to science farm outside of it. What tactics are you referring too?

As for our game plan, I think continents would be a huge benefit. If we discover the other continent first we can essentially double our tech pace by buying from the civs on our continent (which will probably be more advanced) We should probably think about going to war with knights at the very latest. Hopefully when cav arrive we can clear out our continent and be fairly sure of victory. I assume that we should plan on going 0% science at least for a while.

Looks like you've already got five, but if you want a sixth, I'd be willing to join; I'll just lurk otherwise. To answer Vind2's questions: I can consistently beat emperor given a decent start. I have played at demigod and deity, but never won the latter. Four DG victories so far--one with the Iros, two with the Celts (including one HOF entry), and one with the French. Barbs off in every case. As for advanced strats, I micromanage cities and workers to an extent; I only use the governor in captured cities still in resistance (though I used it in all cities except for settler pumps not too long ago, making sure to check for clowns every turn), and I almost never automate workers (shift-d to clean up pollution is the only automation I ever use). My overall strategy is pretty basic, though: expand peacefully as far as possible, then build lots of units and start killing things until I don't need to kill things anymore, pausing to build infrastructure if necessary. My most recent emperor game was America on a standard pangaea map--domination victory in 810AD; that was a couple of weeks ago.

Spamming to subscribe :D

Let's answer some questions.

1-As mentioned before haven't played in almost a year, but can'remeber the last time I lost on emperor.
2-Played all levels including Sid, but never won that
3-Lot's of deity wins
4-At least I used to be aware of most strats, but tend to get lazy in MMing, especially in solo games.
5-Not last year I gues.

Are we aiming for a certain VC or is any win ok?
I second Sir Bugsy in not suporting exploits.
In my experience going to war early is usually a good idea on higher levels regardless of VC.
Tech spead usually moved up with number of civs and level.
I'm fine with Ottomans, continents, barbs.

I remark, it looks like I'm in a different timezone (GMT+1) then the rest of you, so I will appear to be reacting late a lot.

Rolled a few starts, this one looks ok:
141404

Looks good. Maybe we should move one square SE so that we can be near the river, irrigate the wheat and fit another city in next to the sea later on (with CxxC). Any VC is ok with me, but it usually comes down to domination, space ship or diplo. I don't think that we should plan on going for a culture win and we should hit the domination limit well before we get a conquest win unless we specifically avoid it.

When should we plan on warring? If we use swords we get more power, but with horses we can upgrade to knights and then to the Ottoman UU (the name eludes me for the moment). What is the barb setting btw?

For the time being we just need to develop our core. Let's wait and see what we have before we talk about warring. We may have someone right next door or everyone far away. We'll also need to know about resources to kow what kind of war (archer rush v. sword rush).

Lots of things to think about, but we need some intel first.

The Ottoman UU is the Sipahi. I always call 'em Sips.

@ our fearless leader - What's the batting order?

I would move 1E, since it looks like water of some sort. The worker should start irrigating the wheat.

I've won on demigod, but I haven't played much unmodded after that. I've won on Emperor plenty. I MM some, and obvious thing like reducing research on the last turn.

@Lkysam: Since you haven't said anything, can I assume you only wanted five?

I support SE as we probably need the BG, unless we find more when moving E.
Maybe someone should just play the start so we get some more info about surrounding, but we first need to decide on science. Do we gamble on trading pottery or start on that. Will reduce change on slingshot, if we want that. I usually expand like hell, with (almost) no military in the start.
I'm ok with having 6 players.

Forgot to mention about save:
normal size, 70% continents, random settings, 7 random civs, random barbs.

I would have moved 1sw and settled there to maximize access to the forests and BG and started on a granary first thing. Just a thought.

Still not sure if I'm in, but here's my $.02 anyway:
Moving the settler SE sounds good for all the reasons already given; the wheat and the 2 BGs are enough for a 6-turn settler factory once a granary is built. Speaking of which, research should be pottery at max, then iron working and the wheel in either order. With random civs and barbs on deity, the republic slingshot is highly unlikely, and the AI civs will probably pop any techs we research from huts before we meet them. Thus, priorities will be expanding and locating strategic resources, followed by military buildup. Also, after those three techs are researched, zero-percent science might be worth thinking about, though if no resources are within reach, it might be worthwhile to research alpha and math to get cats.

Edit: @ Norton: It's fine by me if you play, as long as nobody else is opposed to it. I think we need to cap it at six though.

Just to get this moving I went ahead and took the first 20 turns. I didn't find any civs

Turn 1: Move settler 1 SE, start irrigating wheat square.

Turn 2: Found Istanbul, pottery at %100, done in 20. Istanbul starts a warrior.

http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitledfb6.jpg

Turn 3: Wheat is irrigated, worker starts a road.

Turn 4: Zzzzz

Turn 5: Road done, worker moves to mine a shielded grassland.

Turn 6: Nada

Turn 7: Istanbul grows, I adjust the slider for order.

Turn 8: Istanbul builds a warrior! I send it eastwards to explore.

Turn 9: Exploring

Turn 10: Worker finishes mine and begins road. Our warrior reveals a rather large expanse of jungle to our east.

Turn 11: Istanbul’s borders expand, growth done in two turns, settler done in 7.

Turn 12: Worker spots a hut, but I leave it for now because it is too close to our
town and I don’t want to spawn any barbs. Worker finishes road and moves to mine another bonus grassland.

Turn 13: Istanbul grows again, I bump up the luxury slider accordingly.

Turn 14: Nothing important.

Turn 15: Worker finishes road, warrior reveals some promising floodplains to the north east. Settler in one.

Turn 16: Istanbul finishes a settler, I move it three
squares west because that is a promising spot and we lack a better one at the moment. Istanbul starts another warrior. I bump the lux slider down again.

Turn 17: Edrine is founded.

Turn 18: Pottery done in one. I set the slider back and we get 8 more gold. Our warrior reveals a couple of good city locations to the north.

Turn 19: Pottery finishes, I start on Iron Working, done in 27. Edrine switches to a granary, I’ll let Istanbul finish the warrior to scout with. Worker moves to start another road and mine on a bonus grassland.

Turn 20: Warrior done, this one goes to the south.

Here is our current position: http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=citylocationsel8.jpg

I was slightly unsure as to whether I should have built a second warrior before our settler, but I think getting our second city up faster will give us a long term boost. I'm not sure that another warrior would have found anyone quickly enough anyway. It is unfortunate that we haven't seen an AI, but on the bright side it proabably means we have some room to grow. On th image I marked a few of what I thought to be good city locations. I don't think we should necessarily found those first, but long term they would be good shots to aim for.

Whoever wants to grab it can take the next set.

Wow this came fast

Where's the save?

Two questions about Edrine: first, why is it where it is? I would've gone for the flood plain wheat, even though it means diverting from the CxxC pattern. Generally, if I build a settler before a granary, it's to set up a settler factory early. Second, why a granary in Edrine? Unless we give that city the irrigated grassland wheat, it will only get 2 surplus food per turn--not enough IMHO to justify the 60-shield investment. Maybe Istanbul should switch to another settler (destined for the plains 1 S of the flood plain wheat), and Edrine could pump out some warriors for MP and a couple of workers, then switch to a barracks.
If no one is opposed to my joining this game, I'd like to play the turnset after the next one.

Wow, you write a lot.

Istanbul should build a granary and settlers. Edrine workers, and some warriors to explore and grow.
Next city should go south of the wheat. That will still take some time so we'll have time to explore.
Why ironworking, although I could support that. Alpha would allow curagh to explore.
Don't like the idea of a rax early, we should expand as we appear to have some room.

I built it there because it was a decent spot that I could reach in one turn. I hadn't spotted the floodplains left and I thought it would be more important get a city up in a decent spot as quickly as possible rather than running around in the dark. Edrine is only has ~two shields built up so we aren't by any means commited to a granary; the next player is free to change it to a warrior or a worker depending on what we need. Sorry I forgot the save, but I don't have access to civ 3 from this comp. I'll put it up later.

I built it there because it was a decent spot that I could reach in one turn. I hadn't spotted the floodplains left and I thought it would be more important get a city up in a decent spot as quickly as possible rather than running around in the dark. Edrine is only has ~two shields built up so we aren't by any means commited to a granary; the next player is free to change it to a warrior or a worker depending on what we need. Sorry I forgot the save, but I don't have access to civ 3 from this comp. I'll put it up later.
Gotcha. I couldn't tell just from the turnlog. As for the granary, I wasn't that worried about it since there were so few shields committed so far; it just didn't seem like the thing to build unless we were going to use Edrine as the settler pump instead of Istanbul (i.e., by giving Edrine the wheat).

Why ironworking, although I could support that. Alpha would allow curagh to explore.
Don't like the idea of a rax early, we should expand as we appear to have some room.
Exploration is important, but so is knowing where the resources are. While alpha's a low priority for the AI, they'll probably beat us to it anyway, so tech trading might not be possible for a while. As for the rax, we'll probably have expanded a bit more by the time Edrine finishes some workers and warriors, and in any case it's necessary to build something while Edrine gets to size 3 (or preferably 4). But you're right, barracks aren't important yet.

Here is the save (I hope)

PLaying order?

Lkysam
Empiremaker
Sir Bugsy
Vind2
nerovats

Is this evryone? SHould this be the order (just copied it from the original roster)

Probably because I play a lot of AW, I always go for a rax early.

I would say at this level that exploration has got to be either priority two or three. Meeting all the civs as early as possible is incredibly important. Brokering between civs is often the best way to stay up in techs early.

Also because of AW, I usually go for IW early as well.

Lkysam
<=Norton?
Empiremaker
Sir Bugsy
Vind2
nerovats

Rest is fine. IW is ok by me, although I personally would have gone for alpha.

I was actually thinking of taking the third turnset, but I'll take this one if no one else does by 2:30 this afternoon. That's assuming I'm in, and also assuming a batting order isn't established by then.

Got it. I'll start the set either tonight after work or tomorrow. A question for everyone before I begin: Istanbul's bulding a granary right now (no shields committed yet), which I'd like to switch to a settler to send 1 S of the floodplain wheat so as to get a second settler factory started as soon as possible. Usually, if I see another good settler pump location near the start, I get a settler out first and then build a granary in the capital; this seems to lead to faster expansion overall. Before I do that, though, I'd like everyone else's thoughts on this since these early moves are so crucial.

Sounds fine to me.

Don't thnk 3 SF will be neccesary as the AI is likely to expand fast. The capitol and the wheat should do, or replace the wheat if a better location is found.

Don't thnk 3 SF will be neccesary as the AI is likely to expand fast. The capitol and the wheat should do, or replace the wheat if a better location is found.
Right. If I find something better to the south, I'll send the settler there instead. I don't think that's going to happen, though, so one settler to the flood plain wheat, and then the granary.

I finshed my turnset just now. Short version: things went reasonably well, but this isn't going to be easy. Here's the save: 141698
------------------------------------------------
Preflight: switch Istanbul to settler; settler in 30, growth in 1
IBT: Istanbul grows to 2, growth in 5, settler in 9
Turn 21:
-lux to 10%, IW in 22, breaking even
-southern warrior 1S to hill, northern warrior 1NE to plains
IBT: barb warrior (Seljuk) appears in the north; worker finishes road
22:
-northern warrior 1E to gold mountain, discovers England; southern warrior 1W to forest
-worker 1E to plains, will start road toward FP wheat next turn. Note: When I did this, I thought this was a mistake, but then I realized another worker would be ready in 2 from Edrine to mine the BG, so maybe it wasn't.
-contact England: We're up masonry! They're up alpha and warrior code. Can trade masonry for WC and 3 gold or a worker and 10 gold. After lowering the slider, I discover that alpha would cost us masonry and 8 gpt. Referring to The Three Questions, we can afford WC but don't need it and can't trade it (every AI almost certainly has it already, and we only know England so far); we need alpha but can't afford it and might not be able to trade it by the time we meet another civ; and I'm not going to trade a tech just to get a slave worker. Conclusion: no trades right now.
-take slider back up to 90
IBT: English warrior attacks barb on mountain and dies! Never seen that happen on deity before. Another English warrior appears.
23: southern warrior 1W to hill; northern warrior 1 NE to mountain, reveals a stack of 3 English warriors (not good, but expected on deity). I didn't attack the barb becasue we'll have another warrior from Edrine before the barb can get close enough to hurt us.
IBT: English warrior stack moves 1W to plains, lone warrior moves 1SW to plains, barb fortifies. Looks like the barb won't be an issue after all.
-Edrine worker->warrior (4); pop down to 1, growth in 10. There was some shield wastage involved in continuing with the worker build, but I thought it better to get the worker out sooner.
24: new worker to BG 1 N of Istanbul; southern warrior 1S to mountain, reveals hut; northern warrior 1NE to mountain
IBT: England founds Hastings at river bend 1NE of sugar; English warrior kills fortified barb, other 2 move 1NW to forest, lone warrior moves 1 S to hill; first worker finishes road
25: southern warrior 1W to hill, avoiding hut; northern warrior 1N to mountain in English territory; first worker 1NE to plains, second worker starts mine
IBT: England asks us to leave; we apologize and promise to leave (not just yet, fellas); English warriors move into fog; Istanbul grows to 3, growth in 7
26: norhtern warrior 1N to hill, southern warrior 1S to jungle, reveals barb camp on hill 2S, 3 warriors (Hurrian); lux to 30, IW in 21, breaking even
IBT: English warrior moves S along road near London
27: northern warrior 1N to hill; southern warrior 1SW to jungle
IBT: England says "remove or declare"; we...DECLARE!! :joke: We leave; don't want this to be the shortest SG in the history of SGs. Warrior transported to other side of England. Istanbul: settler->granary (20), pop down to 1, growth in 7; Edrine: warrior->warrior (4)
28: settler moves 3 NE along road; new warrior from Edrine follows settler; southern warrior 1SW to jungle, northern warrior 1NW to hill revealing English settler pair; first worker moves back to Istanbul; sci to 100, IW in 17, breaking even; move citizen in Istanbul to wheat, granary in 60, growth in 4
IBT: English settler pair moves off into darkness; 2 barb warriors leave camp, approach southern warrior; second worker finishes mine
29: settler 1NE to plains, will found city next turn; northern warrior 1N to hill, southern warrior fortifies in preparation for barb attack; first worker 1S to Istanbul, second worker 1S to BG; new warrior joins settler
IBT: barbs attack southern warrior--1st does 1 damage and dies, 2nd takes 1 damage and wins; 2 English warriors reappear, headed for hut in eastern jungle
30: settler founds Bursa--growth in 5, worker in 10; warrior in Bursa fortifies; northern warrior 1NE to mountain; first worker 1S to BG, 2nd worker starts road
---------------------------------------------------------
Research: science at max, IW in 12, breaking even
vs. England: up masonry, down alpha, wheel, and WC; can trade masonry, 5 gpt, and 15 gold for wheel; other trades mentioned earlier still good (except for the worker
Military:
-2 workers
-2 warriors
-weak vs. England (of course)
Cities:
-Istanbul (1): granary in 58, growth in 2
-Edrine (1): warrior in 2, growth in 4
-Bursa (1): worker in 10, growth in 5
England appears to have 4 cities to our 3.
-------------------------------------------------------
As mentioned before, things went pretty well; the only real reverse was losing the southern warrior to barbs, but we'll have another one soon. England's expanding pretty fast, though, and they might be out of room in the north, so I'm not sure how much farther we can expand before they take all the good land.
Here's the mighty Ottoman Empire:
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p196/Norton_II/ottomans.jpg

And here's England:
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p196/Norton_II/england.jpg

Well done. If England is up against the coast, it is at least possible that they don't know any other civs yet. But even if this is the case we should trade masonry soon methinks, even if we don't get much for it.

:hmm: Why is England not on the coast...?

Well done. If England is up against the coast, it is at least possible that they don't know any other civs yet. But even if this is the case we should trade masonry soon methinks, even if we don't get much for it.
Sounds good to me. I don't think England has started on masonry yet since it's worth the same as it was wort earlier. Either that or they haven't invested any beakers in it. But if I had to guess, they're researching either that or IW right now. Should we just trade masonry for WC and 3 gold, or should we lower the slider and get the wheel instead? IMHO alpha's way too expensive.

lurker's comment: Why is England not on the coast...?
I think seafaring civs almost always start on the coast, but that apparently didn't happen here. I'm not sure what the chances are of a seafaring civ not starting on the coast, but they're pretty small.

:hmm: Why is England not on the coast...?

I used a bad choice of words, I meant that if they were on the coast and the continent does not extend beyond them to the north.

I used a bad choice of words, I meant that if they were on the coast and the continent does not extend beyond them to the north.
I think he was actually asking why London wasn't a coastal city, since seafaring civs almost always start on the coast and the AI never moves its settler before founding the first city (unless it's on terrain that can't be settled, of course). So this was a rare instance of a seafaring civ not starting on the coast.

That is very rare. I've never seen that before. I once saw a seafaring civ's capitol in an ice bound seaside town :crazyeye:

I got it. Looking at the last roster, I'm up.

London is one square away from the sea, I'm betting that Izzy moved her settler before founding it. We can check the replay once the game is over.

London is one square away from the sea, I'm betting that Izzy moved her settler before founding it. We can check the replay once the game is over.
Sure about that? I've never seen an AI move their starting settler, but the replay will be interesting.
@Empiremaker: Good luck.

0- Masonry for WC and 1 gold with england

1- Istanbul is unhappy, move warrior from Edrine there. Lux tax to 10.

2- zzz

3- Bursa completes worker, move it to wheat. Why is Ask for Build Orders after Unit Construction Pref not turned on??

IBT- England forces move out of Territory. England has CB.

4- zzz

5- Edrine Archer to Settler

6- IW to Alpha

7- See cattle on coast 3 NE of Istanbul.

8- Lux tax to 30.

9- zzz

10- Forest chopped near Bursa

11- Istanbul finishes granary, start on settler in 5.

Archer dies attacking barb.

12- Bursa completes granary

Korea comletes the Colossus.

13- Edrine starts on Granary.

14- zzz

15- zzz

16- Istanbul completes Settler -> Settler

IBT- English start Oracle

17- See Barb Horseman

Found Iznik

18- Found Uskudar

Found Izmit

19- Kill Barb Horseman

20- zzz

Notes:

England is twice our size. When they run out of room to settle, we need to prepare for war.

Explore to the south.

Fill in some terrirory at distance 3. CXXC

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Osman_1625_BC.jpg

The save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Osman_1625_BC.SAV)

Sure about that? I've never seen an AI move their starting settler, but the replay will be interesting.
@Empiremaker: Good luck.

Yes they do. I have seen several games where they started on a mountain tile. You can see a replay in CPRsuites viewer anytime.

Yes they do. I have seen several games where they started on a mountain tile. You can see a replay in CPRsuites viewer anytime.
They'd have to move it in that case, or if they started on a volcano or marsh tile, but I don't think that happened here; the only mountain on the coast is two tiles away--would the AI move their settler two tiles if it wasn't absolutely necessary?

@Empiremaker: I downloaded the save but couldn't open it. Also, you said Bursa completed a granary, but in your screenshot it's still being built. Looks like you're building one in Edrine, too; given that Edrine's not going to be a settler factory, do you think it's worth the 60 shields? Good set overall, though; looks like we've got six cities to England's eight, and we should be able to get the iron without a problem.

For some reason, I thought only Lkysam's first set was supposed to be 20 turns, but it seems I misunderstood. Should I play 20 in my next set, or maybe 15 in my next two? Or would it be better just not to worry about it?

I think I'm up next. It appears we need to start thinking about a war with England here in the next 30 turns or so.

Thanks EM for the good passdown. I have it. I will play this evening. Please weight on long term strategy today.

What error message did you get when you tried to open the save?

I think I meant that Bursa started the granary.

Since we appear to be out of room I favour changing the granaries to rax's and start to prepare for war now. Turn of science to save gold. Build vet warriors and upgrade them once we connect iron. The immediatly attack England. The longer we wait the stronger they get. After we take the English territory we can grow and explore more.
Maybe we should play 10 or 15 from now on.

What error message did you get when you tried to open the save?

I think I meant that Bursa started the granary.
The message I got was "not a valid save file".
Since we appear to be out of room I favour changing the granaries to rax's and start to prepare for war now. Turn of science to save gold. Build vet warriors and upgrade them once we connect iron. The immediatly attack England. The longer we wait the stronger they get. After we take the English territory we can grow and explore more.
Maybe we should play 10 or 15 from now on.
Sounds good. We definitely shouldn't let England get too strong.

I can't open it up either.

Is this better? (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Osman_1625_BC.SAV.zip)

As for longterm strategy, we can still settle the jungle in the south, but still prepare for war. We need to explore.

Is this better? (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Osman_1625_BC.SAV.zip)

As for longterm strategy, we can still settle the jungle in the south, but still prepare for war. We need to explore.
That one works fine--thanks. And you're right; we do need to hurry past the Hurrians (sorry--couldn't resist :p ) and find out who and what lies southward. But we can't wait too long for war with England; they're just about out of useful land and may not put off attacking us for much longer.

I have a good save now. It has been my experience to have the first player play 20 and everyone else 10. Too many things start happening past 2500 BC and you lose the SG flavor. It is more like a series of solo games strung together.

Pre-flight – We haven’t been exploring southward. I have always felt that exploring and meeting other contacts is one of the keys to the early game. Liz knows alphabet, so we won’t be trading with her. It appears the settler factory is broken a bit.

Change Edrine and Bursa from a granary to a rax. A granary isn’t a good build if you aren’t going for a settler or worker factory. Change Iznik from a worker to a rax.

IBT – Alpha => Wheel Due in 12. I want to know if Liz has horses. Due in 9.
Istanbul: settler=.warrior

1600 – The settler factor is only ever going to do a settler every six turns, so it wasn’t broken. These barbs to the south are going to make thing difficult for our settler

1575 – Since I can’t get the settler to a city site, I will hold off on another settler.

1550 – Heading south to explore.

1525 – Need to solve this barb problem.

1500 – We have a lot of room to the south to expand. If we can get these barbs out of the way we have lot of land to expand in.

IBT – The Sumerians build the Pyramids.

1475 – Climb a mountain and what do we see?
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/3884/osman1475qd9.jpg

That’s probably Cleo. What are the chances she already knows Liz. I’m think pretty good.

IBT – An Egyptian warrior steps forth.

1450 – Well this is a profitable exchange.
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7311/osman1450yi2.jpg

All our cash is an insult to Liz for a second tier tech.

The good news – we have horses between Bursa and Iznik. The bad news – Lizzy has them too.

I dial up writing next.

1425 – Cleo is sending another settler pair northward. Looks like that land may not last long. Kill a barb.

1400 – There are two English settler pairs headed south. We may need to set up some blocks. Where did these guys come from? I didn’t see them. Check Control P. Yep we have all animation off. That isn’t a good thing to do in the early game. You eye catches motion. Without the animation, you have to search the entire map every time.

1375 – Still exploring. Now there are three settler pairs. We can probably set up a block at the choke at the capitol.

After Action - Not exploring really set us back quite a bit. There is a lot to do. It wouldn’t surprise me if we are on a peninsula of quite a large continent or pangaea. I ordered up a curragh for exploring purposes. If my head was screwed on straight, I would have done that earlier.

Here is the south:
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/7892/osmansouthkj4.jpg

We need to explore in the direction of the two arrows.

Here’s the settlers:
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1605/osmansettlerba5.jpg

You can see their track. Suggest a block as indicated. We need MP to keep the cities happy, so you’ll have to throw that together at the last minute. You should have the units, it will be tricky though.

If we had positioned Uskudar one north, we could have had a nice canal city. We have some wasted space Northeast of there.

Well we're off to a slow start. We can do a lot better, that includes me. Don't think I'm giving myself a pass here either. I made several silly mistakes that I am just realizing as I write this up. We just need to think things through. Think about city placement, play that settler block for all it is worth, and use those sliders.

Save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/32851/Osman_of_the_Ottomans_1375_BC.SAV

remarks about save:
we need to MM a lot more, several cities are inefficient.
Why a specialist in Izmit?
Why is lux higher then neccesary?
Uskudar should build the curagh Edrine a warrior (it's got a rax).
We should let Edrine use the wheat tile every other turn.
We need more warriors, let this settler finish, then only warriors. We can build about 12-13 vet warriors in 10 turns.
By then we'll have the iron connected with the current settler.
When we set science to 10% (or single scientist) we should also have about 400 gold. Enough to upgrade 6-7 wariors and start campaign.
I'd settle on the spot for canal. New settler south of iron on hill.

How do you figure lux is higher than necessary. We are playing at Deity. If you don't have luxes and you don't have MPs, you have to spend money to keep your people happy.

We have a specialist because I didn't have an MP for that city, we don't have any luxes, and bumping the lux slider another 20% wasn't worth it.

Since you downloaded the save, how about fooling around with the slider and tell me exactly how I could have done better MMing the cities and setting the sliders. This is learning for me as well. It doesn't do me any good if you just throw out a statement that we need to MM a lot more. Tell me what I did wrong and tell he how it should have been done.

I used Edrine for the curragh because we'll get it faster there. I felt speed was more important. Like I said at the start of my turns, exploration is the second most important aspect of the early game (right behind settling).

I think we need at least two more settlers to grab some of that jungle. We aren't done with the settling phase yet.

The specialist in Izmit isn't needed as long as the citizen is placed on one of the roaded tiles. Also, if the citizen in Istanbul is moved from the forest to the irrigated plains, we can lower the lux slider. Istanbul shouldn't be at size 6, though; it can start building a settler at 3 and pump it out when it hits 5. Also, it might have been better had the granary in Bursa been either finished or switched to a settler rather than a barracks; we may as well take full advantage of that flood plain wheat. I know that we need a stronger military, but we also need more cities. Speaking of which, here are some good locations for them:
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p196/Norton_II/thenorth.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p196/Norton_II/thesouth.jpg
Grey and black should probably be the priorities since they get us horses and iron respectively. SirBugsy's alerady got a settler in position for a canal city, so it should settle in place. Istanbul and Bursa can pump out settlers to fill in the rest; nothing but workers, barracks, and military units (to include a curragh or two) after that. We won't get much uncorrupted land south of the canal city.

Istanbul shouldn't be at size 6, though; it can start building a settler at 3 and pump it out when it hits 5. Also, it might have been better had the granary in Bursa been either finished or switched to a settler rather than a barracks; we may as well take full advantage of that flood plain wheat. I know that we need a stronger military, but we also need more cities.
I wish you guys would make up your mind. We need barracks! We need warriors to upgrade! Then you complain that I switched a granary to a barracks.

We were wasting a lot of shields by going from 3 to 5 on the settler factory. Plus we needed some military, so I allowed a barracks to be built in the capitol. It works much better going from 4 to 6 rather than from 3 to 5.

Also you need to explain your logic on the granary. First, why we needed a granary in Bursa? Second, why do we need to "take advantage of that flood plain wheat"? Let Bursa grow and pump out some military units. Population is power. We need to be able to control that population, but it is power.

Istanbul and Bursa can pump out settlers to fill in the rest; nothing but workers, barracks, and military units (to include a curragh or two) after that.
Why do we want settlers from Bursa? I guess we have a completely different way of looking at it. Bursa will be able to build three and eventually two turn swords.

We won't get much uncorrupted land south of the canal city.
Who cares about the corruption level right now. We need the land first. We need to explore second. The coruption level will be taken care of later.

I wish you guys would make up your mind. We need barracks! We need warriors to upgrade! Then you complain that I switched a granary to a barracks.
Well, yes, we need warriors and barracks, but the whole point of settling Bursa near the wheat was to get a second settler factory. Given England's rapid rate of expansion, it may have been too late for a granary, but a settler or two would still be helpful. Looking at my earlier post, I was probably unclear on that; I thought Bursa should produce a settler or two and then switch to a rax.
We were wasting a lot of shields by going from 3 to 5 on the settler factory. Plus we needed some military, so I allowed a barracks to be built in the capitol. It works much better going from 4 to 6 rather than from 3 to 5.
How so? We can only pump one settler every 6 turns; have you set up some sort of combo factory, a settler/archer pump to help against the barbs, for example? If so, I stand corrected.
Also you need to explain your logic on the granary. First, why we needed a granary in Bursa? Second, why do we need to "take advantage of that flood plain wheat"? Let Bursa grow and pump out some military units. Population is power. We need to be able to control that population, but it is power.
While there's still good land to be claimed, a high-food city should focus on settlers and workers, don't you think? Again, it may have been too late for a granary to do much good, but it wasn't (and isn't) too late to benefit from a couple of settlers from Bursa.
Who cares about the corruption level right now. We need the land first. We need to explore second. The coruption level will be taken care of later.
Given that corruption will be very high three rings out from the capital (i.e. past the canal city), and given that there are no luxes or strategic resources in that area (except for a second source of iron which it might be useful to deny to Egypt), I think it would be more important to settle the lands closer to our capital and prepare for war with England. I agree with you that we need to explore more to the south, and curraghs (along with maybe an archer or two from Istanbul to take care of some barbs) will help with that.

@nerovats: It looks like we disagree about the priority of settlers vs. military. Why don't you think we should fill in the useful land before shifting entirely to military production? I'd like at least two more settlers: one for the iron, one for the horses. The current settler might be better off settling in place so as to give us both a canal and a choke point. We need more workers, too.

Speaking of war, how much gold does it take to upgrade a warrior? Were going to need at least a dozen to hurt the english, and we are probably going to want more soon if Cleo starts to get aggressive while we are distracted. We don't have much good land and we have NO luxuries which is very bad indeed. England has to be crippled or destroyed ASAP and that will get us good land and wines.

I think barracks were a good idea, but maybe we should build archers too depending on how costly the warrior upgrade is and how much money we can get before the war starts. We should turn off research, maybe not now but certainly after we get writing at the very latest, because our army is seriously weak right now and we are danger of being squished from two sides at once.

We shouldn't worry about expanding into the jungle and marsh to the south just yet. Those cities will be corrupt and unproductive and we have much better uses for the population and shields right now. If we take out england we can worry about grabbing that land later on.

All good points. I guess I didn't read your earlier write up as well as I should have. I think an archer/settler combo from Istanbul is a better way to go.

Let's talk about dots. I agree the canal city would be a very good idea. Especially as a choke.

Blue dot - great
Black dot - Great
Red dot - let's wait and settle that one in the marsh - 2 SE from that location.

Gray and white dots - Those are going to have a lot of cultural pressure very soon. White dot should be settled after Newcastle is razed in the war. same with gray dot.

Green dot - That will be a military nightmare. Iznik is going to be hard enough to defend on the initial surge from Lizzy. I would hold off on this one and settle it 1N after the war.

Speaking of war, how much gold does it take to upgrade a warrior?
60 gold per warrior, so we'd need 720 to upgrade a dozen. That's gonna take a while, so zero research after writing, as you suggested is a good idea.
Red dot - let's wait and settle that one in the marsh - 2 SE from that location.
Why not settle at red dot, then clear the marsh 3SE later and put another city there?

: It looks like we disagree about the priority of settlers vs. military. Why don't you think we should fill in the useful land before shifting entirely to military production? I'd like at least two more settlers: one for the iron, one for the horses. The current settler might be better off settling in place so as to give us both a canal and a choke point. We need more workers, too.

England is still in expansion mode and is thus low on military. If we stike now we can overrun them quite easily. It takes 60 gold to upgrade a warrior to a sword, so in 10 turns we should have at least 6 swords which is enough to start. We will then need to follow with our workers building a road to the front so new swords can get there fast. In 30 turns England is gone we got great land, probably even more then we would have expanding on our own. England is almost out of land so will start claiming more. Our land that is.

Just finish current settler to claim iron the other can be settled on the spot. We can keep the english cities as there won't be a lot of culture yet, and we will whipe them out all together so there won't be any flips lateron.

What de we need for science, writing will let us trade for contacts, but gold is more important right now.

Whatever we decide we should follow one strat, at maximum. Building a some army and some settlers and explore won't work.

I wouldn't plan on a 30 turn war. Remember, England will be building units at deity discount. Lizzy will be able to almost immediately shift to war time production. She will be able to throw a lot of units at us. just in production alone she can win. It will take a lot of good decisions and a lot of RNG luck on the battlefield to win quickly.

If you want to eliminate England, plan on a bit more time. In fact, she will more than likely have feudalism and pikes by the time the war is 30 turns old.

I didn't mean a 30 year war, but 30 turns including buildup. Buildup takes 10-15, the attack and ignore the small cities go straight for Hastings->London->York. That will cripple the English enough to finish them off.

What de we need for science, writing will let us trade for contacts, but gold is more important right now.
Actually, since this is Conquests, writing won't even let us do that; it'll only let us establish embassies, so it's even less useful than you thought. Embassies could be useful later on for tech stealing, but writing can probably wait. A little pointy-stick research might be more cost-effective at the moment. I wouldn't plan on a 30 turn war. Remember, England will be building units at deity discount. Lizzy will be able to almost immediately shift to war time production. She will be able to throw a lot of units at us. just in production alone she can win. It will take a lot of good decisions and a lot of RNG luck on the battlefield to win quickly.

If you want to eliminate England, plan on a bit more time. In fact, she will more than likely have feudalism and pikes by the time the war is 30 turns old.
What about just taking 'em down a notch or two? Maybe we can raze a couple of cities, replace them with our own, and then get some techs for peace. After that, we could fill in the rest of the good land before England takes it, then either attack them again or weaken Egypt instead. Plenty of time to decide about that, though.

Actually, since this is Conquests, writing won't even let us do that; it'll only let us establish embassies, so it's even less useful than you thought. Embassies could be useful later on for tech stealing, but writing can probably wait. A little pointy-stick research might be more cost-effective at the moment.
What about just taking 'em down a notch or two? Maybe we can raze a couple of cities, replace them with our own, and then get some techs for peace. After that, we could fill in the rest of the good land before England takes it, then either attack them again or weaken Egypt instead. Plenty of time to decide about that, though.
Exactly right. Pointy stick research and slowing Lizzy's power curve.

with embassies you can also get alliances, whivh we might need.

In the first attack we should at least half the english in size if you want to make peace a couple of times for techs. Since they only need 60% of the shields, and will experience little waste as their cities are close to each other they can still out produce us. Fortunatly they seem to lack resources and the ai can't fight.

Ok I'm back,:) lost my inernet for the last few days.

And you're up.

Since it's been well over 24h; Got it. Play in an hour or so.

Pre turn
Edrine warrior, Uskudar curagh, Bursa worker
reduce lux, drop science to 10%, move some citizens
1350BC
Bursa worker->warrior
found Aydin->curagh
block the english
set Aydin to single scientist, science to 0%
1325BC
Edrine warrior->warrior
Istanbul settler->warrior
IBT
Rusians finish the oracle
1300BC
moving warriors to block english and still make people happy.
IBT
English demand 30 gold, I cave
1275BC
Edrine, Bursa, Istanbul warrior->warrior. Will now optimize shields.
Workers starts iron road, due in 6, by then we should have 18 vet warriors
1250BC
English move back their settler pairs
1225BC
Uskudar curagh->settler
Settle Antalya->worker
1200BC
English try to find other route, got it blocked
change single scientist to Iznik send warrior for mp
IBT
Egypts clears the barb camp
1175BC
Change single scientist back to Aydin
start to build road towards the English
IBT
English finish Great Wall....
Egypt is fighting in east but can't see the other civ yet
Egypt approaches Aydin
1150BC
Izmit and Iznik rax->warrior
IBT
Egypt attacks Aydin
1125BC
Worker completes road for iron
Izmit riots (sorry)
Change Aydin to warrior (we might get lucky and survive one more turn). Uskudar could be changed to a spear or archer as well.

We now have 19 vet warriors and 338 gold, making another 19 every turn.

Haven't continued this last turn, so team can decide what to do. I reccon we should updrage 5 swords now and send them south. We probably can't save Aydin any more but we can get to Antalya in 2 turns (when no upgrading).

I think we should make peace with Egypt asap, then take on English. Fortunatly Egypt was fighting NE of scouting warrior, so we should not get al their military. They're only sending warriors for now, so if we get some swords down fast we should be ok.

To make sure, most units can still move!

142059

142060

Looks like we're in a little trouble. We'll probably lose Aydin, but I think that we should resettle that location and keep several units there from now on (and maybe build walls). As for the English, we'll have to move straight for London (taking Hastings along the way) so that they don't have the Great Wall anymore. I'd rather raze London thatn keep it, though; unless we wipe out the English, it'll flip for sure, and they'll get the GW back. How many swords do we want for that?

Hmmm things are looking a bit tricky.

PS Sorry I couldn't play, had alot of stuff to do after 5 days of no internet

As soon as we can get peace with Cleo, go for it at any price. Wonder what got in her knickers? Yes, resettle that ASAP if we lose it.

I agree with going straight for London and razing it. I don't even know if I would stop off for Hastings.

I would send at least 10 swords to London. Keep the rest at home for defense. Watch the highlands in the east. Lizzy will send her forces into those mountains.

Who's up Vind2 or Lkysam?

I'd assume it goes to the begining if someone is skipped.

Sorry, RL has been intervening. I can play it tomorrow. Now is probably a good time start with 10 turns a piece so I will play 10.

I got news for you. We've been playing ten for a while now.

:bump: :D

:bump: If LKy doesn't post norton is up.

Norton take it. It has been four days.

Got it. I'll start the set tomorrow.

Sorry, but I haven't started yet. I've had to work longer hours this week, and I've had a cold on top of that. I'll be able to play Sunday, but if that's too long, Empiremaker can take this one.

I should be able to play saturday, so I got it.

Norton- If you are done before I post, go ahead.

So...........

0- Start Upgrading. (5)

IBT- Lose Aydin, it is autorazed.

1- Hurry Spear in Uskudar

2- 1 upgrade

3- Istanbul to settler.

IBT- Egypt warrior attacks my warrior, we win.

4- Move settler towards horses.

5- See Egyptian Sword

Found Konya on horses.

Lose sword to warrior.

6- Kill Egyptian warrior

7- Continue to move swords towards Egypt.

IBT- Lose Sword to Egypt.

Egypt starts Hanging Gardens

England starts ToA

2 more Egypt swords.

8- Egypt finally is ready to talk, but I don’t make peace since it would cost about 128 gold and 2 gpt.

Hunker down in Jungle.

IBT- Sumeria completes Hanging Gardens

9- Total of 4 Egypt swords in the south.

IBT- Will lose scouting warrior in the south.

Lose 2 vet swords in jungle to reg swords. Odds were 3-3 per round, so I’m suprised that I lost both.

10- Kill Egyptian sword, and ours becomes elite.

Our scouting warrior is surrouded by 4 swords, no escape, so he pillages.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Picture_1.png

The Save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Osman_875BC.SAV.zip)

uh-oh. things seem a bit rough. We should pop that gooddy hut. Barbarians will distract the AI maybe.

I doubt it. Those barbs like the AI and hate us, plus at this level they are just as strong as the AI. Wait and pop it with a settlement.

BTW, I have it. I am playing the last two turns of Rat17, so I won't have this played until tommorrow evening.

Good luck people!

I'm basically an emperor player who has been watching this and playing my first Diety game solo so I am not speaking from much experience, but it seems you may need to cut your losses and get peace fast. You can't out-build them, you can't out-research them, your only option is to out-think them and you are in a straight-out war with the toughest civ near you. I'm not the best general so there may be some tricks to pull out of it but standard war won't work. I'd love to see you guys pull this off!

In my game (with no bonuses or luxes on my start and playing the Dutch) I was at 6 cities until about 1200Bc then was able get up to about 14ish Cities by 300 BC by joining a pre-existing war (The AI did the work but weren't ready to build on the newly open land and I had settlers en route:) ) and staying on top of the tech race through trading. My friend, who chooses his starts, has won a bunch on Diety but only with super-power ancient civs or SoZ (He's a committed warmonger and refuses to give in to demands). I only say this because you got yourself into a war you weren't ready for and are down. Taking your lumps now and refocusing, you may be able to pull it out. Regardless how you go, it looks like you are going to lag behind in either research(therefore military) or city improvements (therefore cash/science->military). It would seem you need to decide on a long-term strategy and stick to it. I don't have the answers but if you are all emperor players like me and trying Diety for the first time, using the same old techniques shouldn't be expected to work right?

With all due respect and ABSOLUTELY no offence meant (as I fully appreciate my rookie status:bowdown: ), it seems your team needs a strategy to follow or at least some short and medium goals. That way you can assess each turn set according to how effectively those goals were advanced.

Good Luck All!!!

Who is up?

BTW, I have it. I am playing the last two turns of Rat17, so I won't have this played until tommorrow evening.
Bugs says he has it.

doh didn't even see his post. I think this is the second time you've broght something like this to my attencion.

Well, I think we had a long term strategy before the war started. Since then we have been in survival mode.

I do agree we need to end the Egypt war, if only to prepare for the England war.

We need to take it one step at a time.

Phaedo is right we do need a long range strategy. I think we are now back on our original course.

Pre-flight – We must end this war. We only know two civs. We are far behind. Cleo will give us peace for 1gpt & 162g. I take it. I swap Bursa to a settler. I swap Izmit to a dinky boat. I plan on going clockwise with that one.

IBT – Cleo kicks us out. She also offers a loan 116G for 9gpt. I decline. How can you guys play without animation on? The intel you receive IBT from troop movements is critical. It has already almost got us in trouble once.

850 – Start moving warriors off the block for upgrade.

IBT – Sumerians build ToA. The Russians build MoM. The Chinese get the Lighthouse.
825 – I open a hole in the wall to see what Lizzy does.
IBT – English settlers pour forth. Korea gets SoZ.

800 – Reset the block.
IBT – The settlers run back.
775 – We have settlers heading southward. Start upgrades. We are presently average to the English military. However, with six spears in sight, we have the edge in offensive units.
IBT – Our other dinky boat is commissioned.

750 – Begin sailing clockwise. Found Suez on the canal site.
730 – Nada
710 – Start setting up for a war with England.

IBT – The Sumerians get the Library.
690 – We find a possible crossing point to the other continent.

670 - Found Kafa and we get 50G from that hut. I start sailing our first dinky boat across the ocean, but I don’t think we have anything yet.

IBT – Lizzy boots our dinky boat out of her waters. :hmm: Our suicide boat survives.

650 – We continue sailing eastward with no land in sight. So that was a bad idea.

After Action:

First, here is the south:
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/7524/osmansouthej5.jpg

I circled our guys since I have trouble with shades of yellow. I have these guys monitoring the Egyptians for any signs of trouble. We can also settle pink dot if you would like.

Here is our suicide dinky boat:
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/8889/osmanboatdl2.jpg
We need to :worship: :worship: to the RNG for their safety.

Lastly here is the set up:
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/6442/osmannorthxi7.jpg

First, I would pull force A back and let them play zone defense.

Second, I would use the units in force B to pick off the English units, capture the worker and then play zone defense. There are about five spears down in that southern English city. They will come north on a pillaging mission. You can see two others just on the bottom part of the screen shot.

Lastly, you have force C. This is your attack force. There are eight swords plus a combat settler to replace Hastings. I would use that mountain and then head for Hastings.

I believe Lizzy is weak on offensive units. Figure she has at least one spear in each city, plus two in the capitol. Plus the nine I saw running around, that makes at least 19 spears. We have 32 units. I think we have the drop on her.

When we attack, her spears are going to come pillaging. More than likely, any swords will come along the mountains on the green line.

One last thing, move our dinky boat one tile west before declaring, then move it back. That way we will be out of her waters when we declare. Good luck.

Save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/32851/Osman_650_BC.SAV

Good going, Sir Bugsy! We're definitely back on track now. It's especially good that we were able to found Suez; let's reinforce it as we can. One thing, though: will moving the dinky boat, declaring, and returning it protect our reputation? I've read somewhere (I forget where) that if you have units in enemy territory at the beginning of the turn on which you declare, your rep is busted even if you move them out before declaring. Can anyone confirm or refute this?

Well I'll ned to be skipped. I'm going to be gone until Monday.

As long as your units are not in the other civ's territory when you declare, your reputation is safe.

As long as your units are not in the other civ's territory when you declare, your reputation is safe.
There 3 types of reputation:
1)Trade reputation will be hit anyway if you pay gpt or exchange Lux/Res for gpt.
2) Military Alliance reputation will be OK
3) RoP reputation indeed depend on number of units and if they ask you to leave IBT.

Roster Check:

Lkysam - On Deck
Empiremaker
Bugsy - Just played
Vind2 - skip requested
Norton - UP
nerovats -

Edit: added Norton

Forgetting someone? :p

Oh sorry. I just cut and pasted from the first page. That was the last (and first) time we had a roster.

I fixed it.

There 3 types of reputation:
1)Trade reputation will be hit anyway if you pay gpt or exchange Lux/Res for gpt.THis will be OK. We don't have any deals with Lizzy.

2) Military Alliance reputation will be OKWe do not have any alliances at the moment.
3) RoP reputation indeed depend on number of units and if they ask you to leave IBT.If we have our units outside English territory, it won't be a hit on our ROP rep. If you would like, I can show you an experiment.

Oh sorry. I just cut and pasted from the first page. That was the last (and first) time we had a roster.

I fixed it.
Thanks; I figured that's what happened. I was originally after Lkysam, but since I skipped my last set, I'll take it if nerovats doesn't object. If no objections by noon tomorrow, I'll start my set and will finish up by Monday.

You can take it, have been busy will catch up later today and take it after you.

Got started a little late. I'm 4 turns into the set now, and I've got some bad news: of the 8 swords that were to attack Hastings, only 5 are left, and only 2 of those are at full health. The stack was attacked by 2 archers and 1 elite swordsman (BTW, the English have a leader now), and all three of those units won. I'm thinking of pulling back and gathering a larger force; I doubt very much that an attack on Hastings would succeed right now. The problem is that the English have iron, and if we wait too long, they'll have pikemen. Of course, the Egyptians have just now discovered writing, and the English were roughly equal with them in tech when the war started, so we might not have to worry that much yet. I'll finish the set after work tonight. One bit of good news: the English declared on us when I told them to remove or declare, so we've got war happiness.

:eek: The deity AI is very powerful. I'd drop back. Heal. Play zone defense, and prepare a second strike force. we had best plan on taking a lot more units next time. How many? Not sure, but 16 of combined spears/swords would be a good start.

I just played out the fifth turn and will post the set, the save, and a screenshot later tonight. After that, I need to be skipped until further notice. Work's going to be really busy until a few days before Christmas, and I won't have time to play this. I'll check in and contribute to strategy discussions when possible.

All right, this is ridiculous; I just attempted to post a writeup and lost the page! :mad: I have to go to work soon, so here's the save: 143439 I will have a writeup tonight.

Thats why I make my write ups in notepad. Can your run a word processor while running civ?

BTW empiremaker wtf is up with that pic on page 6? :confused:

All right, here's take two:

Preflight:
-Izmit's about to riot; change scientist to entertainer, change taxman in Uskudar to scientist
-move 2 more swords to hill near Bursa
IBT: England moves units onto mountain near sword stack; Iznik spear->walls (5); Izmit spear->spear (5); suicide dinky sinks
Turn 1:
-change clown in Izmit to taxman (thanks to new spear)
-move worker pair to BG near Uskudar; sword on mountain near Egypt fortifies; warrior 1 SE; spear in Iznik fortifies; northern worker pair to Bursa
-dinky leaves English waters; talk to England, can tell them to remove or declare, so I do; England declares (war happiness! :D ); dinky returns to English waters
-sword attacks spear on mountain, yellowlined, wins (1-0); sword attacks warrior on mountain, 1 damage, wins (2-0); sword attacks sword on hill, redlined, wins (3-0); sword attacks sword on hill, no damage, wins (4-0)
-sword stack moves to mountain, settler joins yellowlined sword on hill
-sword attacks spear in jungle, 1 damage, wins (5-0); sword attacks warrior in jungle, no damage, wins (6-0), captures English worker
-sword in Istanbul toward Bursa, warrior to Istanbul for MP; slave to Konya
IBT: English warrior kills redlined sword (6-1); worker on hill finishes mine
Turn 2:
-move 2 swords and settler to mountain; dinky 2NE; 1 sword from stack Ne to mountain to scout, sees road, rest of swords join except for 2 with settler; worker from hill joins 2 workers on BG, workers start mining; warrior 1 NE to hill
-put taxman in Izmit to work on unimproved plains tile next to river (best tile available)
-sword in Iznik attacks spear, 1 damage, wins (7-1); sword in jungle back to Konya; sword near Bursa attacks spear, dies, spear redlined (7-2)
-spear from Konya reinforces Bursa; try to move worker pair from Bursa to uniproved plains near Izmit, but end up moving all units in city! :mad: send sword and warrior from Konya to Bursa
IBT: worker finishes chopping forest near Antalya; Portugal destroyed; English swords attack sword stack--1 wins, 1 loses (8-3); Istanbul sword->sword (3); Edrine sword->sword (4); english warrior pillages flood plain wheat
Turn 3:
- move sword stack and settler 1 S of Hastings; worker starts mine; dinky 2N; sword from Edrine to Bursa; worker to tobacco 1SE of Istanbul; sword from Istanbul to Bursa; warrior 1 SE; upgrade warrior in Bursa to sword
IBT: English warrior kills our warrior (8-4); 1 sword and 2 archers kill 3 swords S of Hastings! :gripe: (8-7) Time to pull back and regroup.
Turn 4:
-1 worker roads plain, the other irrigates; sword and spear back to Bursa; warrior 1 W; sword stack retreats to mountain
-sword attacks spear, dies, 1 damage to spear (8-8)
IBT: 2 English swords attack our sword stack, both die (10-8)
Turn 5:
-upgrade warrior in Istanbul to sword
-warrior to Istanbul; sword stack to hill; 2 swords from Bursa to hill, 1 sword to Konya; worker SE of Istanbul starts mine; worker stack near Uskudar 1NE
-sword attacks archer, takes 1 damage, wins (11-8)

All in all, not good. Maybe the offensive was premature, but it looks as if England was going to jump us anyway. As I said, I'll need to be skipped for a while, and not just because of time constraints; it seems to me that I made several mistakes that could have been avoided (leaving workers inactive for a turn, moving a whole stack instead of just the workers in it, etc.). Once work slows down, I should be better able to focus and avoid such mistakes.

Got it play tomorrow.

Pre turn,
kill 3 english units in our territory, gain elite (3-0)
lower lux save 5 gpt
IBT
loose 2 swords, but kill 2 archers on defence (5-2)
530BC
move units back
Istanbul will now produce a sword every 2 turns, but need to increase lux to do so.
IBT
Loose 2 swords again on defence, kill elite sword and spear (7-4)
510BC
move back more
England now won't be able to attack on ibt
loose sword against english city (can't read name yet) (7-5)
IBT
Egypt kicks us ou, didn't know we were in their territory (now way to tell same collors)
490BC
kill 2 spears and 3 swords, loose 1 sword (12-6)
English will talk now but won't give enough
upgrade sword
IBT
English pillage and kill a sword (12-7)
470BC
kill spears warrior and sword gain another elite (16-7)
can get myst for peace now, but not enough
IBT
english kill sword (16-8)
450BC
had forgotten about the settler move it south west of Istanbul
kill the sword (17-8)
send spear to mountain to pillage
IBT
spear is killed so is 1 sword, can't believe this is 5th sword that looses should be 50/50 (17-10)
430BC
send stack to english city
410BC
kill spear and archer (19-10)
am next to Oxford now
English won't trade techs anymore
IBT
kill warrior (20-10)
390BC
settle Ankara
loose 5 swords against Oxford just kill 1 spear (21-15)
need another 2 sword to kill a loose spear (22-16)
upgrade warrior
370BC
Uskudar riots (sorry)
kill spear (23-16)
IBT
defend against spear (24-16)
350BC
kill 2 spears and a sword, loose 1 sword (27-17)
England still won't give much but I think we should take what ever we get now. Was very unlucky Oxford should have fallen and I shouldn't have lost this many units on defence (all 50/50 or better odds), but we'll, many next turnset.
Starts to become very difficult to win now. 27-17 is not enough on deity.
we now have 15 swords and 7 warriors and are weak compared to them.

143608

143609

Lkysam - Up
Empiremaker -
Bugsy -
Vind2 -
Norton -
nerovats - Just played

This seems right

Lurkers comment:

Why not make some horsemen to compliment all those swords? They can really help your win-loss ratios.

This doesn't look good; we started out average compared to England. Maybe some cats would help. Can we get math from England for peace and maybe some gold? Of course, since England has the Great Wall, I'm not sure how helpful cats would be.

Lurkers comment:

Why not make some horsemen to compliment all those swords? They can really help your win-loss ratios.

need HBR for that, now we can only build chariots.

We should press southward and at least try and take that city on the SE coast. Then sue for peace.

:bump: Empiremaker is next, If lky doesn't post take it.

I need a skip, as I will be very busy from now until monday.

I have it. I'll play tomorrow evening.

:bump: :D .....

Aaaa! Sorry. :blush: RL distraction. 17 y.o. daughter with an attitude. Get it played soon.

Osman – Pre-flight – 350 BC – we still haven’t done any exploring. We have a dinky boat fortified on the English coast.

Lizzy is in her MA garb already. We will be seeing MDI and pikes soon. She has a nice stack outside Bursa (seven attackers and we only have two healthy swords there. She will give us Myst for peace so I take it. We are in the hurt locker. I switch the capitol to a settler. I think Cleo is wearing her MA duds as well.

IBT – Sumerians build Sun Tzu. Lizzy kicks us out.

330 –
IBT – Writing=>literature (we need some libraries to catch up.)
310 – Send out another suicide dinky boat.
IBT – Dinky boat sinks
290 – I start building temples as a pre-build for libraries.
270 – Try another suicide dinky boat.
IBT – It sinks.
250 – Found Salonika to the south.
IBT – Cleo demands 25G. Since she would kick out butt from here to Timbuktu, I cave.
230 –
210 -
190 -
170 – Two dinky boats head out to sea.
150 – They both survive and keep going.

After Action – We need to make contact with the other continent so our research rates will decrease. Literature is due in two turns. Switch all our builds over to libraries. We have to increase our research rate if we are going to catch up. The AI is not going to trade with us for a while.

Since nothing has changed I won’t post a screen shot.

Save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/32851/Osman_150_BC.SAV

Roster Check

Lkysam -
Empiremaker -
Bugsy - Just Played
Vind2 - UP
Norton - On deck
nerovats -

If someone can play before wedsnday day I need a skipp.

meh I need a skipp (>.<)

OK, got it. I'll play tomorrow and Saturday.

:) :xtree: :xmascheers: :santa2: :snowcool:

Merry Christmas to all my teammates!
:xmastree: :xmastree: :xmastree:

All right, here it is:

Preflight: change scientist in Izmit to laborer, put him on hill next to river
1: Edrine curragh->settler (3); dinkies continue exploring; drop sci to 40% and change 2 scientists to taxmen, still get lit next turn; change citizen in Bursa to taxman to prevent riots
2: learn lit, use "big picture" to switch all temples to libraries (this is permitted by the rules we're playing under, right?); Uskudar library->worker (3), Konya library->worker (3); 1 dinky sinks; switch barracks in Suez to library; make scientist in Kafa to prevent riots
Trades: trade lit to Egypt for math, 54 gold, and 3 gpt (couldn't get map making)
trade lit and 69 gold to England for philosophy (best deal we could get)

set research to horseback riding, can get in 4 turns at 50% with -5gpt (after switching taxmen back to scientists)
We have a palace prebuild in progress, but no wonders are available (every AA wonder has been built already, along with Sun Tzu's); switch to library, wasting 18 shields--IMHO the least bad option
3: Istanbul library->worker (1), Izmit library->worker (2); 1 dinky sinks, but another dinky spots light blue borders! :woohoo: unfortunately, not in contact range yet :( : ; change barracks in Ankara to library
4: Istanbul worker->swordsman (3), Edrine settler->library (5); dinky that found borders sinks! :mad: ; warrior in Istanbul moves toward Suez for MP; drop sci to 40, change 3 scientists to taxmen, HBR in 2, +8 gpt; however, England and Egypt have it now and are in the MA!
5: Uskudar worker->cat (5); Izmit worker->curragh (3); Antalya library->worker (5); Konya worker->cat (5)
6: learn HBR, code of laws in 11 at 40 (the cheapest remaining AA tech), -2 gpt; Ankara library->worker (4); last dinky sinks; Mugla founded, library in 20
7: Istanbul sword->cat (2), Iznik library->worker (5)
8: Izmit curragh->curragh (3)
9: Istanbul cat->cat (2), Edrine library->worker (2); Ankara riots, change citizen to scientist
10: Antalya worker->cat (10), Konya cat->cat (5)

Well, I built some libraries, got us some more workers, and located another civ (though I was unable to contact them), so not bad, I guess. We still need more workers, though; I'd say at least 8 more (for a total of 20). After that, we need to acquire some more territory. England and Egypt are both bigger, stronger, and more advanced than we are; we can't let that go on forever.
Here's the save: 144857

Merry Christmas! :xmascheers: :xmascheers: :xmascheers:

I'll be gone for a weel from tommorrow.

Seen this, will probably play tomorrow.

Here's the other civ I found--it's easy to miss if you don't look closely.
144882

pre-turn
Change Uskudar, Iznik and Edrine to curagh
IBT
get booted by egypt
70AD
Istanbul spear->sword MM to get 15spt
Edrine curagh->sword, this can also have 10spt!
Ankara worker->rax
Also Bursa can get more shields, get 2 turns of FP.
90AD
send curagh west
110AD
Lose 2 out of 4 curaghs
130AD
just 1 curagh left
IBT
Sumeria completed Copernicus
150AD
Spot large sumerian border, need 1 more turn please.
science: CoL->MapMaking
170AD
Yes, made it across, am on coastline just no units to contact yet.
Chnage curagh builds to cats
Izmit to settler to settle SE of Mugla
190AD
Contact Sumeria, they got 1000 gold and won't let us buy any techs.
210AD
Spot dark blue border
230AD
Izmit settler->settler?
Mugla lib->rax
IBT
Sumeria start Smith's
250AD
Dark blue is Korea and also won't trade
MM is due in 3 turns getting low on cash and gpt.
Our military is strong compared to korea but weak to everybody else.
Maybe we should try another war again, otherwise we'll just fall further behind. And we're already retarded compared to all others.

144937

144938

well done on getting across.

The only way we are going to get close tech-wise is to chase the AI up the tech tree.

Making contact with the other civs will allow us to have cheaper tech costs for researching. If we build concentrate on science and financial buildings we can catch up.

The key is don't panic.

I think we need to get MM next so we can get a galley across.

Lkysam? You're up according to the roster:

Lkysam - UP!!
Empiremaker - On deck
Bugsy -
Vind2 -
Norton -
nerovats - Just played

If Lkysam doesn't play today, I'll play tomorrow.

I can't play this weekend. If Bugsy doesn't claim it by Monday I'll play.

OK, a swap with EM. I have it and I'll play tomorrow.

Pre-flight – Well our economy is as good as it is going to get right now. We need science and economy buildings. I’m going to put us on 1/3 economy (courts), 1/3 science (libraries) and 1/3 military. With fourteen cities that’s about four each plus the settler and FP.

I try the Charis trick and see if I can mortgage our entire economy for a tech. It will actually take 32gpt and all our cash to get construction.

260 – Nada.
270 Found Denizli.

IBT – Map making=>currency
FP is built.
And things go from bad to worse:
[img]http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1337/osmanflipvq8.jpg

280 – I move some swords towards the English frontier. Our economy really stinks now. We are running 20% science and 40% lux. Since we can’t squeeze a city in on the Egyptian frontier, I swap out the settler.
290 – Sumeria has muskets while, Korea has spears. Egypt still only has pikes.

310 – I disband a dinky boat on this side. We don’t have the cash to upgrade.
IBT – watch a Korean archer get slaughtered by a Sumerian knight.
320
IBT – The Chinese complete Leo’s Workshop.
330
IBT - The Sumerians start Smith’s :eek:
340
IBT – Cleo demands 20G. yeah, we would have a chance in a war with her. I give it to her. The Chinese complete the Sistine Chapel.
350 - More happens between turns than during the turns.

After Action – Don’t know if this is winnable. When we get currency we need to build markets everywhere for some cash flow. Set up some pre-builds. We have a galley ready to sail across and find the Chinese. MM our economy like crazy get every piece of gold and every beaker you can. I have started wealth in a few cities because we can afford the support costs anymore.

Save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/32851/Osman_350_AD.SAV

Roster Check:

Empiremaker - UP
Bugsy - Swapped with EM
Norton - On deck
nerovats -

Let us know when you guys are ready to play:
Lkysam
Vind2

I got it. We may be able to play the Glib trick and get into the industrial age, depending on where it is.

0- Switch Taxmen to scientists.

1- zzz

IBT- Korea starts Bach’s

2- After Currency is researched, we shouls build up some cash and establish embassies.

Send the galley to scout English lands.

FInd a Russian Galley

Look at the victory screen, and Sumeria is huge (23/26), and has over 15,000 culture.

3- See remains of a Korean city, and Sumerian Knights over it, so Korea lost another city. Korea is down to its last city.

IBT- Bye, bye Korea. At least they won’t get nukes.

4- Nothing

5- Start Pre-builds for Markets.

Find Russian borders

6- Nothing

IBT- Russia completes Bach’s in Lagos. Strange, Lagos is a Portugese name, Russia must be conquring Portugal.

Shanghai has completed Newtons

7- Nada

IBT- See a Sumerian caravel sailing in the deep ocean.

Currency to The Republic.

Sumeria completes Simth’s in Sumer.

8- I’m putting no money into The Republic, so we can build the cash for embassies.

9- zzz

10- Build and Embassy in London.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Picture_1.png

Unseen troops are 2 Pikes, 1 Cat, and 1 MDI.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Picture_2.png

The Save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Osman_425AD.SAV.zip)

I got it. We may be able to play the Glib trick and get into the industrial age, depending on where it is.

If the GL is not on our continent, it isn't going to work. We would need to have astronomy to get enough units across to the other continent. In order to get to astronomy, we have to go through education, which disables the GL for us. I'm pretty sure, Sumeria built it, but I hope I am wrong.

If the GL is not on our continent, it isn't going to work. We would need to have astronomy to get enough units across to the other continent. In order to get to astronomy, we have to go through education, which disables the GL for us. I'm pretty sure, Sumeria built it, but I hope I am wrong.

You're not wrong; Sumeria did build it, so unless we want to build a massive fleet of loaded suicide galleys, we can't do the GLib trick.

Even though that will be difficult, it looks like the only way to win this game. Maybe we can sail to the east and have just 1 turn in the ocean? Better keep fingers crossed.

Norton, are you playing?

Norton, are you playing?

I am as long as tomorrow's not too late.

tomorrow's fine. Some have gone a long time to play (including your's truly).

First off, the save: 145893
This isn't really what I meant by "tomorrow", but I was really stuck on this one, and from the fact that I wasn't skipped, I think everyone else was, too. Either that or everyone was just busy. I finally played my set just now; as to whether I really accomplished anything, only time will tell:

Preflight:
get Sumerian world map for our WM+5 gold+6gpt
disband 3 warriors; move 2 swords each toward Antalya and Suez, will disband warriors when they arrive
1 sword from Istanbul to Uskudar for MP
change some city builds--no more units right now; high-commerce cities build markets, corrupt cities build courthouses, harbor in Iznik, lib in Denizli, wealth in Bursa and Mugla
drop lux to 30, raise sci to 20, change all but 3 taxmen to geeks
IBT: nothing
1: dinky and galley continue sailing; dinky headed for China (now visible thanks to Sumerian WM)
IBT: Istanbul market->wealth; Denizli lib->harbor (20); Sumeria building Magellan's
2:
gpt now +5, so change 2 more taxmen to geeks, rep in 16, +1 gpt; 1 geek becomes citizen in Uskudar whan sword arrives
IBT: Iznik harbor->courthouse
3: swords arrive at Antalya, so disband warriors; make 1 more geek; rep in 14, breaking even
IBT: Edrine market->wealth
4:
swords reach Suez, disband warriors
raise sci to 30, rep in 11, +1 gpt
IBT: nothing
5: China will give 1 gold for territory map--forget it
IBT: nada
6: zip
IBT: Uskudar harbor->market (17)
7: zilch
IBT: gpt drops to -1; caused by forest chop in Istanbul (which is producing wealth)?
8: change geek to taxman, rep in 5, +1 gpt
IBT: Sumeria demands TM and 5 gold; we cave--attitude now cautious (was annoyed); Sumeria and China are in the IA now--this is not good; Kafa riots, so make a geek (after slapping self in head for not checking CAII at end of last turn)
9: zero
IBT: bupkus (I think that's how you spell it)
10: change all specialists to geeks, drop sci to 20, rep in 3, +8 gpt

So basically I did some building and some research, but I don't know if it did any good. IMHO we should revolt to republic ASAP, but unit support costs will be a big problem when we do. A few ideas on how to reduce costs overall:
1. Sell all barracks in all but our 5 or 6 highest-shield cities. If we decide to build up our forces later, the other cities can build bombardment units.
2. After the revolt (or maybe before), see how much luxes will cost. If we can get one for </= 13 gpt, we should. In fact, it might be good to buy as many luxes as possible as long as we still have substantal gpt coming in afterward, enough to buy a tech or two every so often. It'll also let us drop the slider and get some folks back to work.
3. Alternatively (or maybe additionally), we should give some thought to building some temples. Given our total lack of luxes, they might actually be useful.

Those things can help us get stronger, but I still don't know how to win this. The suicide galley fleet idea (to capture the GLib) might work--there's a relatively safe passage through Chinese waters, though we'll need an embassy and a RoP for that. Of course, once we land, we'll be facing riflemen (or possibly worse by then), and it might require a RoP rape if we don't want the fleet to get destroyed--I don't know how everyone feels about that. I think we should avoid it if we can.

There are a lot of things to figure out here. Let's keep trying. We are facing long odds to win. If we can pull it off, it is a feather in our cap.

There are a lot of things to figure out here. Let's keep trying. We are facing long odds to win. If we can pull it off, it is a feather in our cap.

Don't worry; I'm not giving up yet, and I'm sure no one else is, either. But this is a very unfamiliar situation for me. On emperor, the AI civs reach the Industrial Age when I trade or gift them into it, or else let them survive long enough to reach it themselves. On demigod, they get there about the same time I do (or a little before) unless I do a lot of deck-stacking. Here, we have two civs an age and a half ahead of us and have to figure out how to catch up. Our course would be much clearer had the English or the Egyptians built the GLib (or better yet, had we). The problem is that the Sumerians, the likeliest candidate to be the runaway AI, have it. To get to it, we'd have to send a fleet of suicide galleys through the Chinese archipelago between the two continents. Once the galleys were built, they would take quite a few turns to get there, by which time the Sumerians might have infantry vs. our swords. The other problem, as I mentioned, is that the invasion might require a RoP rape to avoid our fleet getting attacked by whatever ships they have. I'm not sure how much of a problem that is for everyone else; as for me, I'd rather win without it.
The other way to catch up is to go zero science and start some tech trading after we switch to republic. Success there depends on how fast we can catch up and how far the Egyptians, English, and Russians are into the middle ages. That's the strategy I'm leaning toward at the moment.

As I see it the only way to win from here is capturing the Great Lib. That would recuire us to sail a very long way or lose about 75% of our fleet trying to take the short cut, and we don't have the units for that. The long way will need us to use rop rape, otherwise we will be booted all the time. Catching up due to trading seems impossible as we are to small to get cash and not strong enough to claim more land.

Do you guys want an outside opinion?

Do you guys want an outside opinion?

Can't speak for anyone else, but I do.

It appears we can use all help we can get.

so, I'm not any sort of expert on deity play... but it seems to me that you guys have a large army that isn't doing anything - it's not intimidating anyone, and it's going to start costing you guys money as soon as you go to republic.

The GLib plan seems like a longshot - it's a long way to go to get to it, you'll have swords and cats and galleys vs, at the best, muskets and frigates, more likely rifles and ironclads and cavs. I suspect it will be a slaughter.

I think you have 3 choices:

1) Switch to republic, run minimum research, disband most of the army to cut down on upkeep and buy techs and luxuries (it should be fairly easy to buy techs for GPT from everyone, since you are the trailer) and get to mil tradition as soon as you can. With Sipahi, you can take over your continent fairly easily - Sipahi and cannon can take down infantry, though its a bit of a slog.

2) Disband the army and research your way out of the hole - in republic, even running high luxury, you should be able to get out of the AA fairly fast self-researching. You will have to disband much of the army to do that and perhaps sell some barrachs, but you can convert the shields to colloseum builds for happiness.

3) Don't disband the army - buy tech from egypt and use that army to beat up england. Lizzie has a large army and is probably itching to beat you up, so it will be a defensive battle, but you can probably bait the AI to try to take izmit by leaving it empty and constructing barricades along the route and heavily fortifying your forward cities, so the hordes of swords, pike and MI will be hurt, at least. If Lizzie has muskets, that will be harder, but what the heck.

A lot of your swords will die, but you are going to have to disband them anyway if you don't go to war, and, hopefully, one or two will give you leaders. a Sword army or 3 is nothing to sneeze at - if you can get 3 and build the pentagon, an army of 4 vet swords or even MI will be the best thing on the continent.

I think you have 35-40 swords and some 15 cats, plus some spears. My guess is that lizzie has about 100 military units or so, 60-70% of which are spears and pikes. I think she has some 77 or so free ones (16 per civ + 4 per city (52) deity bonus, +3 per city support under republic (25) - I would guess she has 1 worker per city, plus probably 5-10 settlers doing nothing, plus she is supporting a bunch more, so it's going to be tough. Cleo is twice as big as lizzie, plus has harder terrain. Of course, 3-4 of those will stay home in each city, so you will *only* be facing an army about 1.5 your size in units that is tecnically superior ;)

My first thought was the military route - it's risky and I think you *have* to be buying techs from egypt to make it work, or lizze may bring cleo in, and then you are hosed - i don't think you can fight a 2 front war against two deity opponents who are more advanced technically.

If you *do* decide to go the non-military route, starting buying techs with gtp from everyone, and establish an embassy with Cleo. It's a hole you are in, yes - but you are only (I think) 9 techs from mil tradition and sipahi are a great equalizer for you guys. (poly, construction?, feudalism, engineering, invention, gunpowder, chemistry, mettalurgy, mil tradition.

Those are just thoughts, of course. I think the biggest worry for you is that you have saltpeter and lizze doesn't and wants it, so thinks that it is easier to just attack - and if lizzie attacks while you aren't ready, you will probably lose 3-4 cities.

Thanks for the ideas, AT. I think the third plan may be the best (researching to MT will do us little good if we lack saltpeter), but it will take some preparation. We need invention for barricades, right? Anyway, we'll need to trade at least to invention before the war (hopefully, we'll get feudalism or engineering as our free tech), and buying a couple of luxes wouldn't hurt, either--I'd rather have those specialists working tiles, and I don't want to have to put all our money into the lux slider. We should also disband our three spears, along with the curragh and the galley--no need for further exploration (I just checked--China will sell us their territory map for 4 gpt). The first tech to trade for is construction; there are two cities that need aqueducts right now, and all our cities that won't need them are past size 7 already. For those that aren't, we should irrigate a grassland tile or two to let them grow faster once we're in republic. So once we trade to invention, or maybe to gunpowder to see if we or the English have saltpeter, we can get ready for war with England. Either that or we can wait a little while and trade to MT for Sipahis, assuming we have saltpeter.
I have a few more thoughts on the matter, but they'll have to wait; I need to get ready for work. This might be winnable after all.

You get both fortresses and barricades with construction. Fortresses, btw, come with ZOC.

You get both fortresses and barricades with construction. Fortresses, btw, come with ZOC.

You're right, of course; I don't know why I thought they came later. I did know about the ZOC, though--that's the whole point of building them in the strategy you outlined, right? So we'll be ready for war before I thought. Still, we should trade for both construction and polytheism if possible and hope for either feudalism or engineering; some trebs or maces will be helpful.

I looked at CAII, and once we switch to republic (but without any cities building wealth), we'll be making 56 gpt with both sliders at zero. After disbanding the five units I mentioned earlier, that brings it to 66. Egypt will sell us construction for 27 gpt and a lux for 11 gpt and 2 gold--a bargain, considering that we get 13 happy faces for less than 13 gpt. 2 luxes from Egypt would cost us 23 gpt--again, a pretty good deal. But it gets better: Sumeria will sell us gems for 9 gpt and 3 gold, and they'll sell us construction for 26 gpt. I'd recommend getting gems and construction from Sumeria and another lux from Egypt for a total of 46 gpt and 5 gold once we're in republic. We should be able to buy one lux before we switch once we disband the spearmen and naval units, but maybe we should wait. With 2 luxes, we shouldn't have to raise the slider too high (probably no higher than 20). Some of these numbers could change, though: the next player, or possibly the player after that, depending on how long anarchy lasts, will have to decide what to do based on the situation then. But we should not hold off any longer on switching to republic, and we must buy construction afterward.

Sorry I seem to keep forgetting I'm up after Norton, which way do we go, science like AT suggest or build a fleet. Research will probably still take long, letting the ai running even further away, but maybe 30 swords won't even be enough to capture GL.

Was gona play now, but don't want to make decission on my own in what path to take. Norton seems to go for science (with or without war?). What do the others think. Do we build a fleet, or do we sell army. Iv we do the latter I fear England or Egypt might attack as we become even weakers then we are right now, stronger we will loose if they attack after we sold out troops. Maybe get Egypt in MA against England? MT is still a very long way. Well I just can't make up my mind on this one. Either way is a long shot, so let me hear your mind.

for what it's worth: it may make sense to buy construction from egypt, even though it's a tad bit more expensive. Why? Well, while it's not a guarantee, i think that the AI is less likely to break a tech for GPT deal by declaring war... and the worst thing that can happen is for you guys to be fighting a two front war.

for what it's worth: it may make sense to buy construction from egypt, even though it's a tad bit more expensive. Why? Well, while it's not a guarantee, i think that the AI is less likely to break a tech for GPT deal by declaring war... and the worst thing that can happen is for you guys to be fighting a two front war.

A lux for GPT deal would have the same effect, right? That's why I wanted to buy a lux from Egypt and get construction from Sumeria. It's ony a 1 gpt difference, though, so maybe we should buy it from Egypt after all.

Was gona play now, but don't want to make decission on my own in what path to take. Norton seems to go for science (with or without war?). What do the others think. Do we build a fleet, or do we sell army. Iv we do the latter I fear England or Egypt might attack as we become even weakers then we are right now, stronger we will loose if they attack after we sold out troops. Maybe get Egypt in MA against England? MT is still a very long way. Well I just can't make up my mind on this one. Either way is a long shot, so let me hear your mind.

I wanted to follow the third course of action AT suggested: trade with Egypt and go to war against England, using barricades to set up a Funnel of Doom leading to Izmit, which would be left empty to bait English forces. We'd still need to prepare a little bit. We need to buy construction, both for barricades and for aqueducts (get as many cities as we can to size 7 for the extra unit support), and it might not hurt to buy polytheism as well if we can afford it since it and construction are the only AA techs left. The war against England will be much easier if we at least have maces or trebs.

If you don't hear from anyone else in the next day or so, do what you think best, but I'd advise against any action before the switch to republic.

We'll enough waiting, played another SG today, so will play this one tomorrow. If no one reacts I will start on 3rd start, start war with england after getting fortresses, trade with egypt.

Pre-turn
Lower science to 0% to get gold, republic now in 6
buy construction form Egypt for 27gpt
560AD
Suez court->market
send workers north to build fortresses
570AD
Ankara harbor->market
580AD
stop the galley which is on automove will disband it next turn
IBT
Egypt starts on Magellan
590AD
disband galley
first fortres complete start upgrade to barricade
600AD
republic in start revolt, get 4 turn anarchy
some cities shrink because of entertainers. Change them back better to riot 1 turn then to loose pop.
IBT
England moves lots of workers trough our territory
610AD
Keep building fortresses
620AD
move swords noth as they won't give happiness anymore, just keep some around to cope with eventual landings and some in south to guard against egypt
630AD
Building goes slow in anarchy
640AD
Will be back in control in 1 turn
IBT
Sumeria completes Magellan
650AD
We're a republic, but incense and spices for 18gpt and WM from Egypt
lux to 10% still need lot's of entertainers but can't raise lux higher am now even losing gold
Have to sell rax of Antalya to prevent auto selling something
660AD
buy gems from sumeria for 12gpt
at 100% tax we only make 9gpt now but some markets are almost complete.
Building fortresses goes slowly but steadily.
146478

146479

Lkysam is up

Lkysam hasn't posted here in a while. I got it, should play Friday.

nice! 3 luxes! lizzie dont' know what's gonna hit her...

might be interesting to send a horsey (if you have one, I don't remeber) into lizzie's territory to see what's guarding her cities - pikes or muskets.

Excellent! I was afraid we'd end up with 8 turns of anarchy. After playing around with the sliders, I found out that with 1 clown in Bursa and 1 taxman in Istanbul, Edrine, and Izmit, we can run 10% lux with +7 gpt. As expected, unit support's killing us right now, but once we build markets and aqueducts, that'll be less of a problem. We should trade for polytheism as soon as we can afford it and hope for feudalism or engineering as our free tech. With at least one of those, and after building some maces or trebs, we should be ready for war with England.

nice! 3 luxes! lizzie dont' know what's gonna hit her...

might be interesting to send a horsey (if you have one, I don't remeber) into lizzie's territory to see what's guarding her cities - pikes or muskets.

Remember that we're dealing with a Deity level AI. Even if we completely surprise Lizzy, she is probably going to have six or seven defenders in each city. I wouldn't be surprised to see rifles defending.

0- MM some, but things look bleak. Two Civs (China and Sumeria) are already in the IA.

IBT- China has Cavs and Rifles

1- Continue Fortress and Barricade building.

IBT- Konya completes marketplace.

2- Not much

IBT- Izmit completes marketplace.

Sumer founds an embassy.

3- zzz

IBT- England moves a pike into our territory.

4- England only has pikes defending in Newcastle.

China and Sumeria are at war.

5- BUT England has Muskets in Hastigns.

I bet the saltpeter is on the mountain 2S of Hastings.

Egypt signs MA with Sumeria against China!

6- Sumeria is building Rails.

IBT- Usdudar produces a market.

7- zzz

8- zzz

9- We get some GPT back.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Picture_1.png

The Save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Osman_750.SAV.zip)

Well, we knew about China and Sumeria being in the IA--not much we can do about that, other than hope that the war between those two civs is long and indecisive. Fortunately, we'll be in the MA soon: after checking the save, I found that we can either buy polytheism from Egypt for 17 gpt or research it ourselves in 4 turns at 30% science and -10 gpt. I'd prefer self-research since it's cheaper overall (256 gold total vs. 340) and would leave us in a better position to buy, research, or maybe steal another tech. Of course, we should only try to steal from England and only when we're ready for war.

Sir Bugsy, you're up next. Be certain to make appropriate sacrifices to the RNG gods so that we don't get monotheism as our free tech.

Bugsy- you're up.

Empiremaker -
Bugsy - Up
Norton - On deck
nerovats -

Am so excited to see what happens - I predict a bloody war and some nervous moments.... but I think it will be more successful than you all fear.

OK, I have it.

Pre-flight – 750 AD – I don’t think I have ever been this far behind ever. We are still AA and everyone else is IA. Push science to get poly in four. Sumeria is a monster. They may just swallow China whole and win a domination victory.

770 – Our dinky boat stumbles across a pirate. I think we’re toast.

IBT – Yeah. We are toast. Dinky boat gets a choice spot in Davy Jones’ Locker.

780 – We can do three turns of negative cash flow and one of positive.

IBT – We finally enter the MA. Poly =>Theology Monotheism was our free tech. Since we got it we might as well go for education and universities. Due in 12.

790 – I see what kind of deals we can get. The best offer for Theology is 41gpt & 130G (950G total) It will cost us 792G to research it ourselves.

810 – England and Sumeria sign an MPP. Lizzy then declares on Mao. We could get in on the action for WM & 4G. What a great deal!

820 –

IBT – One benefit of Lizzy declaring war is that she has greatly reduced the number of troops on our northern frontier. Not that it matters much. BTW, I saw an English rifle.

830

IBT – Gilamesh signs Cathy into a MPP. Looks like it will be a nearly full dogpile on Mao. We’ll be the only ones not participating. Cleo demands TM & 25G. OK.

840-

IBT – This is obviously pick on Osman season. Lizzy demands TM & 23G.

850 –

After Action – Nothig has changed, so no picture. Our economy continues to improve. Theology is due in 5 now with positive cash flow. Start pre-building some universities as soon as Theology comes in. We are only one age behind. I think with some astute MM and universities we can catch up by the time everyone gets to the modern age.

Save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/32851/Osman_-_850_AD.SAV

I think going for Education is the right choice. MDI and Pikes vs. Cavs and Rifles can be a fun war- if you have the cavs and rifles.

We are still AA and everyone else is IA.
Not quite: England's still in the MA, but much farther along than we are, of course. That must've been a musket you saw, or maybe somebody else's rifle.

We just had to get monotheism, didn't we? :mad: Oh, well--that being the case, going for education could be the best move. It also looks like we might have to put off going to war until we have Sipahi, but it's hard to say right now.

One bit of good news: Sumeria's in Fascism. That should at least slow down their tech pace. Also, I don't think taking over China would put Sumeria over the domination limit--they're only at 32%, and China has less land. China and Russia might do it, though. Also, maybe we ought to track Sumeria's culture per turn--they're already over 37000 total. Not that we can do anything about it, of course, but it would be useful to know.

Unless Lkysam or Vind2 pops in, I'm up. I plan to finish theology, start on education, and continue building infrastructure. I think a beeline to MT and a Sipahi rush would be best after that. I'll play Saturday if there's no word from the other two.

I think Lkysam and Vind2 should be dropped from the roster until further notice. They haven't replied here in a long time.

I have no problem with that, I've been away for too long and have to much work to be active.

First off, the save: 147193

Preflight: make geek in Ankara to prevent riots
IBT:
-renew 2-lux deal with Egypt fpr WM, 24 gold, and 21 gpt
-Konya walls (walls?)-> wealth
1:
-change geek to clown in Edrine to prevent riots
-send workers toward Antalya to irrigate (needs food surplus when aqueduct finishes)
IBT:
-renew gems deal with Sumeria for 14 gpt, 6 gold, and WM--Sumeria is now polite
-Antalya riots--make geek
-Kafa courthouse->aqueduct (17)
2: sci to 40, theo in 2, -15 gpt
IBT: zzz
3:
-problem with irrigating Antalya--nothing to irrigate from! :blush: ;send workers toward Istanbul to chain irrigation to Antalya
-sci to 20, theo still in 1, +31 gpt
IBT:
-learn theo, education in 8 with sci at 40, -15 gpt (cheaper to self-research than to buy)
4:
-not much--England's in the IA now
IBT: zzz
5:
-start irrigation chain toward Antalya
IBT: Antalya aqueduct->market (20)
6: zzz
IBT: zzz
7:
-add worker to Antalya, change geek to clown to prevent riots
-switch Mugla from wealth to aqueduct
IBT:
-Bursa riots; change geek to clown
8: make geek in Kafa to prevent riots
IBT:
-England and Russia sign MPP
-Izmit aqueduct->wealth
9: zzz
IBT: sci to 30, education in 2, +20 gpt
10: zzz

A fairly uneventful turnset, but I got a little careless in places. We're 2 turns from education, and I'm assuming we'll beeline for MT and get some sipahis ready after that. One thing I should mention, though: I tracked Sumeria's culture during this set, and it went up at an average of about 633 per turn. They're at 43,570 now, which means that they'll pass 100k in less than 100 turns. That doesn't necessarily mean they'll win, of course--Egypt might have more than half that then. Also, it looks like Sumeria's winning the war with China, but it's taking them a while.

Will play tomorrow or wensday. Will aim for MT.

Pre-turn
change wealth cities to colloseum as pre-build
960AD
Ankara market->duct
970AD
education in set science towards MT feud in 8 @30%
Iznik duct->market
change colosseums to uni's
join some workers to lower support science to 40% feud in 6
980AD
Denzili market->duct
IBT
Egypt build Shakespear
990AD
Join some more workers, MM some cities
1000AD
feud in 2 now
1010AD
Create all taxman
1020AD
feud in engineering in 5 @50%
Instanbul uni->wealth
Suez duct->uni
Mugla duct->uni
join worker to Mugla, change taxmen back now engineering in 4
1030AD
Edrine uni->wealth
1040AD
Kafa duct->market
IBT
Chinese establish embassy
1050AD
Lower science and change some scientists to taxmen again, engimeering next turn

We still pay 24gpt unit support, but will complete the last 2 ducts in the next turnset getting it down to 16gpt.
Lux deal with Egypt will stop so next player will need to renew that.

147652

According to the reduced roster Empiremaker is up.

Oops. I will play monday.

0- looks good.

IBT- Cathrine demands TM and 19 gold. I cave,

I renew to lux deal with Egypt.

Egineering -> Invention.

We may want to make a detour to Banking.

1- Build an embassy with Egypt. Egypt is in Fascism. [party]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Picture_1.png

IBT- Russia and China sign peace

Renew gems deal with Sumeria

England withdraws troops from our territory.

Egypt completes Shakepreare’s

Sumeria starts US.

2- Sumeria is over 50000 cp (51425), about +650/turn, at current rate victory will be in 74 turns.

IBT- See English Rifle

Egypt is Railroading

3- Establish Embassy with Russians

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Picture_2.png

4- zzz

5- zzz

6- zzz

IBT- China and Sumeria have signed a peace treaty.

7- Invention -> gunpowder (5 turns)

IBT- Sumeria starts ToE.

8- zzz

9- zzz

10- zzz

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Picture_3.png

The Save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Osman_1150AD.SAV.zip)

Bugsy, your’re up.

OK, I have it, but I can't play until Friday.

Preflight – Bede would have a stroke, but due to the lack of luxuries I started some temples in our growth limited cities.
IBT – Russia declares on the Chinese.
1160
IBT – England and Russia sign MPP. Gunpowder =>Chemistry
1170 – I’m sure this will come as a shock to everyone, but we don’t have saltpeter.
IBT – China and England sign a peace treaty.
1180
1210 – Sumeria completes US, as if they don’t have enough culture already.
IBT – Chemistry =>banking (since we don’t have saltpeter, mil tradition doesn’t make sense)

1250 – It costs us 23gpt to renew the incense and Spice deal with Cleo.

1255 – Renew the gems deal with Gilamesh fo 19gpt. Lizzy demands 23G.

Banking=>Astronomy (5 turns)

1265 – Switch a bunch of prebuilds over to banks.

1270 – Sumeria and Egypt sign an MPP. England declares on China.

I played 15 boring turns. I’m not sure how to get this game even close to winnable. We can certainly use some banks (cash) and cathedrals (happies) We need to maximize our population in every city.

Save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/32851/Osman_1275_AD.SAV

Where is the closest saltpeter? Well... no salt, we will have to wait until tanks.

Maybe not. Egypt and Sumeria both have extra, and we can afford it. We're already 1/3 of the way to astronomy, and I hate to waste beakers, but if we wait until tanks, we're toast! Not only that, but there's no guarantee that we'll have oil or rubber. Therefore, I propose the following:
1. buy saltpeter from Egypt for 173 gold and 11 gpt (we don't need it yet, but they can't sell it to anyone else if we're buying it)
2. get research back on track toward MT at the highest rate we can afford

It's still an open question whether this is winnable, and the answer is looking more like "no" as Sumeria runs away in culture, technology, and everything else. Of course, there's nothing we can do about that except hope that Egypt has enough culture to keep Sumeria from winning that way (doesn't look like it, though). But let's try to take out England, at least.

The save: 149077

Preflight:
-change research to metallurgy
-lower sci to 0, buy saltpeter from Egypt for WM, 11 gpt, and 173 gold
-raise sci to 40, met in 7, +15 gpt
IBT:
-all English units withdraw!
-Kafa temple->bank (23)
1: send our remaining worker to plains 2 NE of Konya
IBT:
-Sumeria declares on China again
-Istanbul bank->cathedral (11); Mugla bank->wealth
-Sumeria builds ToE
2:
-start road
-raise sci to 50, met in 4, -14 gpt
IBT: Uskudar temple->bank (23)
3: switch some geeks to taxmen, -9 gpt
IBT: Iznik temple->uni (13)
4:
-start irrigation
-have to lower slider--met goes from 2 to 3 even with all geeks
IBT: Sumerians start Hoover Dam
5:
-drop sci to 30, met still in 2
-looks like China doesn't have harbors left--we can't trade with them
IBT: Antalya uni->temple (9)
6: ----
IBT:
-learn met, MT in 6 at 50% sci, -12 gpt
-Ankara uni->bank (15)
7:
-start mining hill 2NE of Bursa
-change Mugla from wealth to horse (should've thought of that earlier)
IBT: Bursa bank->horse (3)
8:----
IBT:
-Egypt finishes off China (way to scavenge, Cleo!)
-Mugla horse->horse (2)
-Sumerians start SETI!!
9: make taxman in Iznik to prevent riots
IBT:
-Sumeria declares on Russia
-Konya bank->horse (3)
-Suez harbor->bank (27)
10:
-make geek in Bursa to prevent riots
-change all takmen to geeks, drop sci to 40, MT still in 3, +28 gpt

Notes:
1. The Sumerian cultural juggernaut is still rolling along; looks like they're at about 700 cpt. From the graph, it's hard to say where Egypt stands in relation to that, but it's going to be close.
2. I started a few horses to upgrade to Sipahis, but since upgrades cost about 210 gold each, we'll have to build most of them.

We will also have to worry about a Diplo victory.

got it, play later today.

Pre-turn
looks ok, hit enter
IBT
England and Sumeria sign ma against Russia
Egypt wants TM and 23 gold, OK
1330AD
Bursa and Mugla horse->horse
sign MA with Sumeria against Russia as well, they're toast, and won't get to us, and we get 260 gold.
buy dyes from Sumeria for WM 18 gpt and 3 gold
1335AD
MT next turn
1340AD
MT in turn off science for 1 turn to get cash
upgrade 1st 2 horses, 1 left
pillage 1 fort to draw English to Izmit
1345AD
Pillige tile again, now road is cleared
IBT
Sumeria want MPP, no thanx
Sumeria starts on UN
1350AD
upgrade last horse and start upgrading spears and swords, should be done in couple of turns
IBT
English are moving lot's of rifles into our territory, no way we can deal with those
Have to renew lux deal with Egypt for 39gpt
1355AD
Iznik uni->shipai
Blok entrence again there are at least 50 rifles, this will be suicide.
IBT
Renew lux deal with Sumeria for 17gpt
Russia is gone
English retreat
Sumeria starts on Manhattan
1360AD
Nothing we can do anymore, Sumeria has 80K now
Will just keep upgrading units, maybe we can get more Shipai and reduce England and hope for something wierd, like getting elected, but that has never happend to me.
IBT
Egypt now wants 75 gpt for salt, we have no choice
1380AD
all cities are building Shipai, we now have 13 of those, 20 MI, 15 swords

Do we still want to try and get bit out of Englands? They got more rifles then we got units. They also had some Guerilla, so at least they don't have infantry. Sumeria is at 83K now.

149110

I got it. I have a feeling we'll lose. I'm declaring on England, just for the fun of it.

Might as well; we can go down fighting, at least.

Before declaring you might want to disable animations... ;)

0- Sumerian Culture is at 82850.

I tell Lizzy that you give us Astronomy, or you DIE. She takes the DIE option.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Picture_1.png

We enter a golden Age

Capture Newcastle.

IBT- English Infantry Appear

Lose Newcastle

English Raze Izmit.

The people love me so much, they want to expand my palace.

Sumerians starts The Internet

1- Sumerian Culture is at 83617

IBT- Lose Istanbul, Bursa, Edrine, Iznik, Konya

2- Sumerian Culture is at 84392

Our current military: 7 Swords

IBT- Lose Mugla, Antalya

Sumeria completes Hoovers

Sumerian Culture is at 58178

3- Our empire after 3 turns of war

IBT- Lose Uskudar (Razed), Denizli, Ankara

4- Another Palace expansion

Sumerian Culture is at 85997

IBT- Lose Suez, Kafa.

Ottomans are eliminated.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Picture_3.png

We are ranked as Osman the Cruel

This is the save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Diety_End_Game.SAV.zip) on the turn before we lost.

:eek: Well, at least we captured a city at one point, and it was better than sitting around waiting for Sumeria to win. Looks like the most recent picture ended up in an earlier post, though.

tough game. no luxes is always a problem on deity.