In my current game I am trying to set up for a diplomatic victory, aiming for three friendly AI civs and one, my potential rival, largest in population but disliked by everyone. But now one of the friendly AI civs became just vassal to another friendly civ. I have tried to find any information on how this master/vassal will behave when it comes to UN votes but haven't been successful. Perhaps anyone that knows can help me with these questions?

Does the population of a vassal count towards the masters eligibility for becoming secretary general?

Will the vassal vote independently of the master or does it have to vote the same?

Vassels have to vote for their master.

P.S Diplomatic victories are a pain in the ass, the AI are totaly broken when it comes to Diplomatic votes, and even if you do finaly rally up enough votes, don't you feel unsatisfied in the end?

P.S Diplomatic victories are a pain in the ass, the AI are totaly broken when it comes to Diplomatic votes, and even if you do finaly rally up enough votes, don't you feel unsatisfied in the end?

I would be satisfied, but people who are excited by genocide probably wouldn't be.

Diplomatic Victory is easy. In fact, I've been winning nothing but diplomatic victories for the last couple of games.

The strategy is simple. I play continents, so what I do is conquer/ vassalize my continent to gain enough votes, then suck up to all the civs on the other side, or to the most powerful block on the other side at least. I simply gave them everything they asked, I even gave techs even if they didn't ask for it, I always made sure we have the same religion, and I always do what they asked.

Even if not all those civs on the other continent won't vote for you, enough would to combine with your votes and your vassals to give you victory.

Vassels have to vote for their master.




Thanks.

But what if the master is not a candidate for the secretary?

Also, when determining the candidates for secretary general, can masters count the population points of their vassals in addition to their own population?

Thanks.

But what if the master is not a candidate for the secretary?

Also, when determining the candidates for secretary general, can masters count the population points of their vassals in addition to their own population?

half the pop counts for the master (=half the votes too!), half the pop is the vassal's own

Diplomatic Victory is easy. In fact, I've been winning nothing but diplomatic victories for the last couple of games.

The strategy is simple. I play continents, so what I do is conquer/ vassalize my continent to gain enough votes, then suck up to all the civs on the other side, or to the most powerful block on the other side at least. I simply gave them everything they asked, I even gave techs even if they didn't ask for it, I always made sure we have the same religion, and I always do what they asked.

Even if not all those civs on the other continent won't vote for you, enough would to combine with your votes and your vassals to give you victory.

Ah, the infamous "diplomation" victory. :) Any win that requires owning 40 or 50 percent of the world doesn't qualify as a diplomatic win to me. Of course, there is that quote (from Mao?) about diplomacy coming out of the barrel of a gun. :lol:

Ah, the infamous "diplomation" victory. :) Any win that requires owning 40 or 50 percent of the world doesn't qualify as a diplomatic win to me. Of course, there is that quote (from Mao?) about diplomacy coming out of the barrel of a gun. :lol:

You must be in first or second population place to be candidate. Having 40%+ of the world makes it a sure thing.

You must be in first or second population place to be candidate. Having 40%+ of the world makes it a sure thing.
Isn't the one that builds the UN candidates automatically? Even if it has less population...

half the pop counts for the master (=half the votes too!), half the pop is the vassal's own

Hmm, I guess I have to go for conquest then, unless I can help the unfriendly civ to become 50 % larger too... :(

Ah, the infamous "diplomation" victory. Any win that requires owning 40 or 50 percent of the world doesn't qualify as a diplomatic win to me.

40% means you still have to win over at least 22% of the world. If the rest of the world hates you or likes the other guy better, you still can't win. Anyway, I totally disagree with snobbish definitions of a diplomatic victory. If you call winning merely by your own and your vassals' votes a 'backdoor' diplomatic win, that's acceptable. But 40% is way below that. If I said any win that's after the Industrial age does not qualify as a conquest win, would you agree? That's ridiculous.

40% means you still have to win over at least 22% of the world. If the rest of the world hates you or likes the other guy better, you still can't win. Anyway, I totally disagree with snobbish definitions of a diplomatic victory. If you call winning merely by your own and your vassals' votes a 'backdoor' diplomatic win, that's acceptable. But 40% is way below that. If I said any win that's after the Industrial age does not qualify as a conquest win, would you agree? That's ridiculous.

I'm often ridiculous. :crazyeye: My basic point is that I would expect a diplomatic win to consist mostly of a diplomatic effort to get a majority of Civs to like you enough to vote for you. What I call a diplomation win consists mostly of conquering other Civs and befriending one or two to put you over the top. (And you're right, 40% is probably not enough.) Every time I've won a game like this, most of the Civs on the planet don't like me. It all seems a bit strange, wouldn't you agree?

I remember one game I played on a large panagea map (Prince), where I had Louis and Toku Friendly toward me, and had conquered a couple or three neighboring Civs. I had bent over backwards to get them to like me, and was very annoyed when Louis voted for the competition even though I had a higher positive diplo rating with him (by a couple of points, if I remember correctly). My response was to take all of his cities. Then my 58% plus Toku's 10% made me the proud recipient of a "diplomatic" win. Bah - humbug!

As it is, a diplomatic victory is usually just a minor variation on a domination victory.

I'm often ridiculous. :crazyeye: My basic point is that I would expect a diplomatic win to consist mostly of a diplomatic effort to get a majority of Civs to like you enough to vote for you. What I call a diplomation win consists mostly of conquering other Civs and befriending one or two to put you over the top. (And you're right, 40% is probably not enough.) Every time I've won a game like this, most of the Civs on the planet don't like me. It all seems a bit strange, wouldn't you agree?

I remember one game I played on a large panagea map (Prince), where I had Louis and Toku Friendly toward me, and had conquered a couple or three neighboring Civs. I had bent over backwards to get them to like me, and was very annoyed when Louis voted for the competition even though I had a higher positive diplo rating with him (by a couple of points, if I remember correctly). My response was to take all of his cities. Then my 58% plus Toku's 10% made me the proud recipient of a "diplomatic" win. Bah - humbug!

As it is, a diplomatic victory is usually just a minor variation on a domination victory.
Agreed. Diplo is so annoying when you gotta make friends with your enemies(Montyzuma can be pleased with you, but will that stop him from declareing war on you? NO it won't). Usually I have about 50% of the land, because I always need to nuke whoever decides to vote for somebody other then myself.

Agreed. Diplo is so annoying when you gotta make friends with your enemies(Montyzuma can be pleased with you, but will that stop him from declareing war on you? NO it won't). Usually I have about 50% of the land, because I always need to nuke whoever decides to vote for somebody other then myself.

if you have nukes, when diplomatic victory is an option, you obviously didn't play for it (meaning that with a little focus on this victory condition, it would be done some 100 turns before manhattan project is doable)

I had bent over backwards to get them to like me, and was very annoyed when Louis voted for the competition even though I had a higher positive diplo rating with him (by a couple of points, if I remember correctly). My response was to take all of his cities. Then my 58% plus Toku's 10% made me the proud recipient of a "diplomatic" win. Bah - humbug!

In fact, you've contradicted your point here. If you had played with good diplomatic skills, you might not have had to take Louis' cities and could have won a diplomatic victory much earlier. Your 58% in the end does bring you close to the level of a backdoor diplomatic win, but that's probably your fault. If you had 40% of the world and had won the vote by getting Louis and Toku's support, that's still a credible diplomatic victory. Your failure to do so only highlights the skill of those who are able to do it.

Tell me both waging wars of expansion and having to maintain enough good relations to get at least the rest of the 62% isn't challenging. People like Barney badmouth diplomatic victory because they do not have the skills to manage one without resorting to the basest of methods. "Damn, I can't get a people to vote for me so I conquer them and vote for myself. This is ! This is just a lesser form of domination!" :rolleyes:

In fact, you've contradicted your point here. If you had played with good diplomatic skills, you might not have had to take Louis' cities and could have won a diplomatic victory much earlier. Your 58% in the end does bring you close to the level of a backdoor diplomatic win, but that's probably your fault. If you had 40% of the world and had won the vote by getting Louis and Toku's support, that's still a credible diplomatic victory. Your failure to do so only highlights the skill of those who are able to do it.

Yikes - I've been burned! If I were a lawyer I would say you are assuming facts not in evidence. :mischief:

Tell me both waging wars of expansion and having to maintain enough good relations to get at least the rest of the 62% isn't challenging.

Um, winning by any means involves skill. I can't see where anyone suggested otherwise.

Yikes - I've been burned! If I were a lawyer I would say you are assuming facts not in evidence. :mischief:

I remember saying "might" and "probably". Anyway, I don't see how you can prove a diplomatic win with 40% of the world population as "diplomation" with an example where you failed to win over a potential ally's vote and had to resort to conquering him to get the victory with 58% of the world population. That's essentially my point. And I'm sure you would've gotten his vote if you had known exactly how to do it.

Um, winning by any means involves skill. I can't see where anyone suggested otherwise.

You suggested that any diplomatic win that involves expanding in any major way is crap. I said that it often requires considerable skill (especially in diplomacy), except where you only need your own votes to win, and therefore it isn't crap. See the link?

Actually, you are quite a lawyer with the way you're twisting things around.