This is the thread for all matters pertaining to trade involving our glorious empire.

Our Staff

Leader: Bill_in_PDX
Deputy: Earl of Chester
Chat Rep.: donsig

Our Policies (Last Update 4/19/02):

1) Acquisition through cultural control of, and road connection to, all resources and luxuries in our civilization territory.

2) Be aggressive in acquiring new knowledge advancements through the trade of gold or luxuries (if able).

3) Never trade resources during the early era's that enable our neighbors to build forces dangerous to our national defense.

4) Never trade a technology that uncovers those critical resources or enables a rival to build a key wonder (such as the Great Library), unless that wonder is already built.

5) Never trade knowledge between turns, as the AI with trade that same tech to all known civ's. Instead, if it is safe to deal a tech, do so to all civ's on the same turn starting with the richest civ, consider granting it for free to a civ who cannot pay much (assuming we are in good financial health) in order to earn better relations.

6) Rarely trade away gold per turn, always look to gain gold per turn from other civs. Our philosophy is that a broke neighboring civ, is a civ ready to become a vassal.

7) Trading World Maps is very dependant upon situation, the locale of the trading civ, and the value of the data in the map. Tread warily here.

8) Trading Territory Maps is even more risky, and rarely useful to the human player. A neighboring civ who is moving forces near our borders and asks for a territory map trade is most certainly preparing for attack.

9) The Trade Department believes in coordinating it's efforts with the aims of our entire government. As such, we will work with the domestic, foreign, and military leaders to maintain continuity.

Bill
Trade Leader - Term 1

The Department of Trade (DOT) exists in both an advisory and tracking role.

In CIVIII the need to acquire, and preferably control, all types of resources and luxuries holds the key to success. Resources allow the building of an empire that can stand the test of time, from both a military and infrastructure standpoint. Luxuries, especially when multiple quantities are held, provide for the well being of all of our citizens, as in addition to making possible lucerative deals with other advanced civiliazations.

The DOT is different from other departments in that we do not directly control cities or territories, yet we do interact with all levels of the government in our role of maximizing our nation's trade.

Some good discussion is now occuring regarding the coordination of efforts between our trade representatives and our researchers:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=232410&t=8176#post232410

Hey Bill
I'm your deputy for thid first term and aim to hopefully give you another opinion and some helpful pointers whenever I can and step into the breach if needed. I look forward to working with you for the good of the country and it's citizens :)

Originally posted by Earl Of Chester
Hey Bill
I'm your deputy for thid first term and aim to hopefully give you another opinion and some helpful pointers whenever I can and step into the breach if needed. I look forward to working with you for the good of the country and it's citizens :)

Welcome "Earl"!

Thanks for joining the team. The trade division will be pretty quiet in the early stages, but I anticipate all of us who love trade will have ample opportunity to help steer our empire to success.

I partly joined trade for that.... to be eased in gently but I still want to be involved in the cabinent positions. And we will be called upon along with the Science department when we start meeting other Civs. We are bound to need to do a bit of tech brokering early on :)

I'm wondering what you think of one of my Trade stradegies. I tend to sell off non-military techs very liberally in order to amass large amounts of gold per turn. Many times I have sold the same tech to nearly all of the other civs in one turn. This frees up more money for more research and luxuries, so that I'm collecting no taxes, just spending on research and luxuries to keep citizens like me happy, while I'm working on Cathedrals and such.

I realize the potential problems with this stradegy. We could lose the advantages we seek by getting so far ahead of the Comp, which means we will have to be very picky on what techs we give out, and try to make sure we are well ahead when we do this. Also, if we do use this stradegy it will likely come into play a long while after we get into it.

So what do you in the Trade Dept. think of this suggestion?

Originally posted by Falcon02
I'm wondering what you think of one of my Trade stradegies. I tend to sell off non-military techs very liberally in order to amass large amounts of gold per turn. Many times I have sold the same tech to nearly all of the other civs in one turn.

I am an aggressive trader of non-military techs, especially those that are merely stepping stones to other techs in the tree, but meaningless themselves. I usually will not do it though until I see one other civ with it.

If you are going do it, I agree, trade it to all Civ's on your turn (not between turns) for the AI will rapidly trade tech to everyone.

YMMV,

Bill
Trade Leader (Term 1)

I agree with all the pints made in the previous posts but we are likely to be behind in tech till we get (if we get) the GL. I tend to be more cautious about giving end of ear techs such as radio away as the advantage of getting the chocie of the new era techs can be quite major..... Our position will be easier as we are a Science Civ -Either Persia (My Fav) or Germany.

Proud followers of all things Trade related in our great empire:

We have started our quest to economic dominance, and the Gods of Luck have smiled upon us by providing exotic spices nearby our capitol city.

The scientists are researching the use of iron, something which promises to make our military force unrivaled through the development of Immortal battle teams.

This may seem like a quiet time in the trade world, as we do not yet know what other cultures we will encounter, but we of Trade must make our voices heard consistently to ensure that we are prepared to deal effectively with the rival civ's when that time arrives.

In the early game, our main trade commodities are gold, maps, and tech. I am NOT in favor of trading Iron Working at any point. Let those who disagree please come forward with your comments.

Bill
Trade Leader

As the founder, and current representative of the Spice Traders Guild (yes, I changed the name after seeing we have spice to start off with), I propose building roads to that other source of spice. Our merchants have been listening to our reseachers on the issue of iron, and feel that an additional source of spices could be benefical in acquiring iron from another civilization, in the worst case that we do not find any iron within our borders.

In addition, our merchants would like a city near some more luxury resources, and even gold.

we must expand to the sea, our people lie upon a rich and unblemished coast, learn map making, and begin the expansion beyond the great blue yonder.

I suggest we heavily explore and build cities around any and all luxeries we find!

Our glorious scout warriors have fought off violent barbarians and discovered more of our world.

It would seem that the spice traders will be quite satisfied to know that more deposits of that substance have been uncovered to the southeast of the capitol.

More intriguing is the discovery just north of Fox Nest of incense. The trade department policy will be to strongly press for establishment of a city near that luxury as soon as possible. That city location would be known as Yellow 2 on the President's current plan for city growth.

Objections to that policy of supporting yellow 2 should be posted here.

Bill
Trade Leader

More intriguing is the discovery just north of Fox Nest of incense. The trade department policy will be to strongly press for establishment of a city near that luxury as soon as possible.
Bill
Trade Leader

Well I concur that the incense should be in our greedy little hands asap.WE STILL NEED WORKERS.One worker doesn't make the grade

Deputy Hendrix

I also agree about needing extra workers. With more workers, we can connect those spices and other luxeries for trade. The guild has hired masons and builders to prepare for this stockpile of goods, and are eager to trade with other nations. Persian Spice shall become world renowned! :)

Originally posted by Chieftess
I also agree about needing extra workers. With more workers, we can connect those spices and other luxeries for trade. The guild has hired masons and builders to prepare for this stockpile of goods, and are eager to trade with other nations. Persian Spice shall become world renowned! :)
Persians? Who the heck are the Persians? ;)

Originally posted by Shaitan

Persians? Who the heck are the Persians? ;)

I thought I read that's what we were. Ok, Persian ethnicity. ;)

Phoenatican Persians. We're a majority ethinc group. ;)

Persia is the district where the Spice Traders Guild is.

All citizens interested in Trade matters should review the current summary of policies in the first message of this thread.

Thanks!

Bill
Trade Leader - Term 1

3) Never trade resources during the early era's that enable our neighbors to build forces dangerous to our national defense.

Sound's basically sound but what if get "an offer we can't refuse"

They'll give the shirt of their back sometimes and even at this difficulty level are slow to take advantage of new forces.

And those hills to south with the incense look like an ideal place for three or 4 "Factory" cities.They never get large but can turn out units because of their phenomanal shield prodution.
Mine,Mine and Mine.

6) Rarely trade away gold per turn, always look to gain gold per turn from other civs. Our philosophy is that a broke neighboring civ, is a civ ready to become a vassal.

Never pay gold per turn,take his gold per turn offer and change into lump sum(20*x)and discount it 10%,they'll usually take it.The only exception being if you are going to declare war on said civ.

Originally posted by marshalljames
Sound's basically sound but what if get "an offer we can't refuse"

Never pay gold per turn,take his gold per turn offer and change into lump sum(20*x)and discount it 10%,they'll usually take it.The only exception being if you are going to declare war on said civ.

When it comes to certain tech/resources, I haven't seen an offer worth the risk yet. Beware of the AI offering large gold per turn deals whiles massing swordsmen on your frontier.

Really the tech/resource combos I guard closely are Iron (obvious reasons), Rubber (Infantry), and Oil (Tanks).

I have traded them before, but only to allies in a war, and only after I have secured multiple sources. I have found that the AI will pay the most for tech's like Banking and Sanitation.

As to the gold/turn, we are thinking alike I believe. Trading away gold per turn is a last resort only. Taking gold per turn is something I like to do when possible.

Bill
Trade Leader

IMPORTANT CABINET NEWS

For the upcoming weekend 4/6 through next Tuesday 4/9, I will be in New York on business and away from a terminal, therefore our fine Trade Deputy, Earl of Chester will be responsible for all trade related matters in my absence.

Bill
Trade Leader

Both the Aztecs and the Babylonians are willing to trade Horseback Riding for money. Should we deal with them?
I would open a poll, but it's not my place. Lets hope Earl gets here and decide it. Either that or the Prez will do it in the turn chat.

Originally posted by Pggar
Both the Aztecs and the Babylonians are willing to trade Horseback Riding for money. Should we deal with them?
I would open a poll, but it's not my place. Lets hope Earl gets here and decide it. Either that or the Prez will do it in the turn chat.
If the cabinet member and deputy are both absent, does this responsibility fall to the executive branch? (Pres/Vice Pres)

In that case we need Eyrei to post a poll if this idea requires popular support.

I suggest that we maintain our lead in trade and instead try to hand out extra luxuries for a rich sum. I would hate to have our military fight the very horses we sold them

I have returned from my business travels. Post any questions here.

I am in favor of purchasing Horseback Riding for reasonable cash up front (no gold per turn). I am opposed to selling horses themselves in the early game.

Bill

About Horsebackriding.

We can get horsebackriding for about 16 Gold. But we didn't take the deal as we don't even have horses connected yet.

When we connect the Horses however, then we could trade for Horsebackriding. If needed.

Welcome back, Bill.

Originally posted by Grey Fox
About Horsebackriding.

We can get horsebackriding for about 16 Gold. But we didn't take the deal as we don't even have horses connected yet.

When we connect the Horses however, then we could trade for Horsebackriding. If needed.

I concur with the President's thoughts on this matter.

Bill
Trade Leader

Current Situation - 1125 BC

We have made contact with 10 civ's now. There are NO trade deals in place at this time. Technology wise the other civ's are five tech's ahead of us.

The polite civ's (such as the Aztec's) would be willinging to allow us to catch up science wise, but would be seeking in the range of 155g to do so. This would constitute half of all of our riches.

I feel that is a reasonable price to pay for valuable knowledge, and would favor the trade IF we decide to pursue Pyramids in place of the GL.

In the short term, only mathmatics and horseback riding may become critical, so I feel we can wait to decide on such a trade until the GL issue is resolved.

Bill
Trade Leader

Don't know if this belongs here or not but is it legal to d/l save and find out what the other civ's are willing to trade or is this a violation of the rules.

i had the same question and asked duck in a pm. he never answered me, but it's obvious that the top govrnment officials do speak with the other foriegn leaders. so i guess, as long as you don't go into the next turn (AT ALL), it's OK.

Originally posted by Cyc
i had the same question and asked duck in a pm. he never answered me, but it's obvious that the top govrnment officials do speak with the other foriegn leaders. so i guess, as long as you don't go into the next turn (AT ALL), it's OK.

Actually, you are not allowed to take any action whatsoever, including establishing embassies, making one trade to open up another, etc. You can simply look to see what another civ would want or give for something.

Originally posted by eyrei


Actually, you are not allowed to take any action whatsoever, including establishing embassies, making one trade to open up another, etc. You can simply look to see what another civ would want or give for something.
Exactly. Look at anything you'd like but don't actually do anything. Like right now you can see what the embassy to Egypt will cost but not how much it would cost to get a military alliance. I'd give somebody's eye teeth to know that right now but it is info non grata.

Exactly, for instance I can D/L the save and check with the all the Civ's as to what we could trade for technologies, but I cannot answer that critical question of how much for a alliance with Egypt.

I've always assumed that is acceptable practice, in fact necessary for a department head to do, as long as we don't actually make a deal or take an action.

Bill
Trade Leader

POLICY NOTICE

During the Great War, the Trade Department has officially modified it's stance on gold per turn trades as they apply to three specific areas relative to the war.

Please see item #6 in our standing policies posted / updated as always in the first post of this thread

Bill
Trade Leader

Update - 875BC

The polls have spoken, and the people's desires will be met.

We will not pay Babalyon for peace, nor will we give in to Cleo's exorbitant demands for an alliance.

We are authorized though to strike a small deal with Egypt, and I propose spending 5gpt to buy four techs (Literature, Horseback Riding, Code of Laws, and Mathmatics).

We are 7 techs behind at this point, and no matter what direction we go in regarding the GL, I believe we should catch up a little now. Plus, the 5gpt should be just enough to keep Egypt quiet during the remainder of our war.

Bill
Trade Leader

bill,. I concur!

Deal with Egypt

Update - 875BC

We have played one additional turn and there were many positive happenings for our nation.

First, we completed a bribe/trade deal with the Egyptians. As the polls clearly demanded that no alliance be made, there were also clear calls for a small deal with Cleo to entice her to stay out of the great war alliance.

I felt that somewhere between 2-5gpt would be enough to bribe her into neutrality. The best combination deal was 5gpt for four techs. As we are 7 techs behind, getting four of them back seemed prudent in combination with setting up the bribe. The tech's acquired were:

Horseback Riding (for our future war options)
Literature (much debate about the great library, now we can build it)
Code Of Laws (soon we will need courthouses)
Mathmatics (leads to catapults)

We could have given 10g and 4gpt, but I felt the 10g overall savings was little compared to the additional value of 5gpt in keeping Cleo silent.

If she backs out of the deal, we just bought 4 techs quite cheaply. If she keeps the deal, we are well served.

Our budget has a +15gpt surplus, in addition to keeping our warchest for immortal upgrades untouched.

Overall, I am generally opposed to gpt deals, but in this, our hour of need, this was a good deal for our future.

Bill
Trade Leader

APPLICATION FOR TRADE DEPARTMENT CHAT REPRESENTATIVE

donsig is hereby appointed as the Official Trade Deoartment Chat Representative.

He has my full authority to uphold the policies of the Trade Department as outlined in post #1 above during those times when myself or the Deputy Trade Rep are not present in chat.

Thank you donsig for your efforts.

Bill
Trade Leader

UPDATE - 710 BC

Our war machine is kicking into gear and we have show the American's a brief glimpse of what is to come.

With the victory of our first Immortal unit, we have entered a golden age, so even with the 5gpt to Egypt in place (for 13 more turns) we are making +26 in our treasury.

India declared war on us, piling on from halfway around the world after making an unreasonable tribute demand. No matter, as they are a non-threat.

We are unable to trade with any nations at this time, and with the GL coming online in 11 turns, I recommend no deals for tech at this point.

Bill
Trade Leader

Update - 490 BC

After a barbarian uprising near Eyr. The government spent the majority of our treasury on buying the world map from the Egyptians.

I don't disagree with the move, as it was definately a use it or lose it situation. Once Cleo had the cash, she was more easily convinced of the need to enter the war against us. Our President rightly feared that could be the case, and attempted to up the gpt committment to Egypt. To no avail, as we are now at war with Egpyt.

With the Great Library online, and Cleo breaking her gpt deal, we end up catching up in tech quite cheaply.

The war with America is going quite well, and their capital should fall within the next round of turns.

With the entire world against us, there are no trade deals to be made until peace is established. As such I am removing the Great War exceptions to our trading policies.

In the event that peace becomes possible in the near future, the Trade Department supports paying up to 10gpt combined for all peace treaties, and is opposed to paying any amount for peace with America or Egypt.

Bill
Trade Leader

CENSUS OFFICE
The Census Office wants to remember all Citizens to re-register in the new official registry http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20720 !!!

CHAT OFFICE
The Chat Office wants to remember the Department Leaders to announce their chat-representatives in the thread http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20797 until 1 hour before the chat. They will NOT be voiced if not nominated in the thread!

All department heads please vote on the VP Position Band-Aide Measure. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21178)

Citizen's

Term 1 has seen great change occur in our empire, and we are well on our way toward world domination.

The endless battles we have endured have prevented much of the lifeblood of trade from flowing through Phoenatica. However, we have been successful in what we could accomplish, and I thank all of your for your support of the Trade Department during this term.

A new Trade Leader will be taking over after the elections, and I wish them the best of luck, and hope that their term will be filled with trade opportunities.

Bill
Trade Leader - Term 1

Trade Leader Thread - Term 2 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21758)