This is where Science stuff will be discussed. Also I will post the current technology research for the current era. I will post the techs we have and the techs the other civs have that we don't.

Current- Chivalry
Next- Invention
After- Gunpowder
Near Future- Chemistry
Far Future- Metallurgy
Research is debateable!!

Ancient Era: All
Middle Ages: Monotheisms Feudalism, and Engineering
Industrial Ages: None
Modern Times: None


Egypt- None
Zululand- None
Rome- Unreachable
Babylon- None
India- None
China- Unreachable
America- None
Greece- None
Iriquois- Unreachable
Aztecs- Unreachable

Last Updated April 30, 2002.

As Head of the National Science Department, or the NSD I will define the deciscions i will be making in the first post of this thread.


Wonders:
Great Library (We have it :))
Cure for Cancer
Copornecus' Observatory
Newton's University

Improvements:
Library (Have in: Fox's Nest, Pherris, Civanatoria, and Washington. Building one in Macao
University
Research Lab

Small Wonders:
Intellagence Agency(For stealing technologies)

Greetings Civanator,

Everyone knows that true power lies in knowledge, and so the military departments looks forward to the fruits of your research programs. I applaud your decision to learn Iron Working at an early stage. Knowledge of strategic resources is vital to the well being of our nation. Though we will hopefully not need masses of swordsmen or horses, knowing the location of these resources, especially with a neighbor like Persia, will be vital to our country's interests. I can see Literature as a high priority for the Great Library and for libraries, but I know you will not neglect discovering where horses are by forsaking a relatively early researching of the cheap technology, the wheel.

Peace,
Charis

we can fit the wheel in there somewhere. i was just giving a look at how we are gonna research in 2 different scenario cases.

Originally posted by Civanator
For Research(Results of Map Depend): If we are with someone on a land mass, We will be going for Ironworking immediatly and then Literature.
If we are alone we will be going for Map Making and then Literature then Ceremonial Burial.
I guess it would be best to go for Alphabet quickly then? Even before we know our situation. Because it would be needed on all paths we could take...

Originally posted by Grey Fox
I guess it would be best to go for Alphabet quickly then? Even before we know our situation. Because it would be needed on all paths we could take... That's right. After researching Alphabet we'll probably know if we should go for Iron Working (civs around) or Map Making (island scenario).

The good thing is that we'll start with Masonry and Bronze Working.

It's time we start talking about science exchange. In case we find foreigners what will be the NSD position on the actions of the Trade Department. Is Alphabet worth anything? Is anyone of our advances unexchangeable.
Personally, I don't like giving foreigners the ability to defend their puny cities. So, BW is a no go, except in the case where Alphabet is in the table.

Pggar
Science Deputy of the Phoenatic Empire - :scan:

The com REALLY likes Bronze Working, Masonry and Alphabet because:
Bronze Working=good defenders
Masonry=Pyramids
Alphabet-->Writing-->Map Making and Literature and Code of Laws and Philosophy which will get Republic.

Also the com will pay alot of $$$$$$$ for Iron Working and the Wheel cause they give resources.

I also have a tech tree that i made to show the computer's most valued techs. I had to zip it because the original file is a bmp

Originally posted by Pggar

It's time we start talking about science exchange. In case we find foreigners what will be the NSD position on the actions of the Trade Department. Is Alphabet worth anything? Is anyone of our advances unexchangeable.


The trade department will coordinate any tech exchange recommendations with the needs of our brainiacs. Clearly a unified strategy is ideal, as we can look for ways to acquire techs that you many low prioritize.

For example, Ceremonial Burial is low priority under your plan above, and probably could be had cheap prior to us deciding to invest beakers in it.

My philosophy is never to trade an advancement that leads to showing a resource, or is necessary for completion of a key wonder (in my book, that would Great Library in ancient times).

Looking forward to our departments working together.

Bill
Trade Leader

the first turn's have been played.I don't know for sure anymore wich tech's we already have ,but i know we are researching Iron working at this moment.

I ask from the DOC to list wich tech's we already have ,wich one we are currently researching ,and most importantly wich one we will research next.

We are the Persians. We are the immortals. We are industrious.
We are... Scientific!

I commend the people on the choice of a tradition, and for choosing this path. I am also pleased to see the Presidents recognition of our heritage by starting off with Iron Working.

In other threads in Military and Foreign Affairs I speak of our Manifest Destiny, to own our starting continent. I will not repeat these words here, but they color the following statements.

If we're on an island, we will be forced to research our own techs for some time, and will be glad for our attention to science.

Whether on an island or a huge continent, I support the whipping of libraries in about every city! It's super for culture, the best 'value' we have, hands down, for a sci civ, and will lay a foundation for a future of scientific endeavor.

My other point will be the one that might cause concern in the scientific circles. If we are not alone, but our surrounded by other tribes that go against our Manifest Destiny, I have proposed that the route we take for science be 100% purchase, 0% research. This is not a neglect of science at all, but a need for immediate action, AND efficiency in learning. If not on a rock, I believe we are in for a Jihad, and Iron Working is ALL we need - get Literature asap both for libraries and the Great Lib. Early requests for Horses were before I knew we were Persian. That request is withdrawn as a moot unnecessary path. If we end up in a spot without horses and others have founded there, these poachers will be taught the folly of opposing our destiny.

Longer term, post-continent-redemption, post-Immortals, post-education (if we get the Great Library), I think THAT will be the time for our scientific people to take up the mantle of research. If we do our job right in this Ancient Era, we may never need to fight another war past the Jihad, and we should see a glorious Scientific and Cultural explosion. :hammer:

Just wanted to lend my support for science, and point out the need for something that might be unpleasant short term. If you have any concerns, read the Manifest Destiny posts and see if you find agreement with the will of the people.

Charis

I want to echo my suport for literature, as my experience with Scientific civs is that Libaries are critical for expanding our borders and our culture quickly, as well as the boost to science. Building up culture early can help keep any annoying wandering settlers away from our homeland (if we don't kill them first) by making sure our borders interlock quickly.

The science benefits are obvious, but getting lots of libraries early can have a big impact, especially when techs are still relatively cheap. The Culture benefit is even bigger, because they will get their 1000 year old bonus relatively quickly (since the turns cover more years per).

Respectfully, your deputy Culture minister.

Originally posted by Justus II
I want to echo my suport for literature, as my experience with Scientific civs is that Libaries are critical for expanding our borders and our culture quickly, as well as the boost to science. Building up culture early can help keep any annoying wandering settlers away from our homeland (if we don't kill them first) by making sure our borders interlock quickly.

The science benefits are obvious, but getting lots of libraries early can have a big impact, especially when techs are still relatively cheap. The Culture benefit is even bigger, because they will get their 1000 year old bonus relatively quickly (since the turns cover more years per).

Respectfully, your deputy Culture minister.

The Department of Domestic Affairs supports this idea wholeheartedly, and this will be reflected by the construction of cultural buildings and particularly libraries in all of our cities, as soon as possible. We must, however, finish researching iron working first.

Agreed, Iron Working is the key to our Immortals! I meant Literature as the "second" priority. After all, what will they write about until our great Immortals go out and smash our foes!

After researching Iron Working we will be Researching the Wheel and then Warrior Code. After Warrior Code we will research Pottery and then alphabet.
If anyone objects feel free to speek up.

Originally posted by Civanator
After researching Iron Working we will be Researching the Wheel and then Warrior Code. After Warrior Code we will research Pottery and then alphabet.
If anyone objects feel free to speek up.

I would suggest going straight for literature, so that we may build the Great Library. The other advantage to this, is that the AI civs rarely research literature, so we would be able to trade it for other techs. We will be able to buy the wheel and warrior code from other civs for reasonable prices.

I say we should finish research on iron working, and then start on alphabet. Pottery, the wheel and warrior code can be purchased for a small price in my opinion. If and when we locate another civ Im sure it will help our diplomatic ties to teach us there knowledge for gold, hopefully the civs we find will have those advances!

Now that we know there are no immediate nearby neighbors, I agree with the path to Litarature at this point. Cheap Libraries in our Scientific civ allow for rapid culture expansion as well as increased research.

Bill
Trade Leader

I second (third?) the motion to go straight for literature. Without pressing needs, we can get by without the horses, and besides our Immortals can defeat any early nearby foes if we find them. As mentioned, the computers generally get to horseback riding pretty quick, and we can trade for it if needed.

The sooner we build libraries, the BETTER!
Remember, "Reading Is Fundamental"

I also vote for going right to Lit. We have no idea what kind of contact the other civilizations have with eachother. They might be far past us right now! (BTW what patch are we working with?)

After two turns played we are on our way on getting Iron working, I believe we have 16 Turns left on it (We have played about 24 turns). BUT we learned the Ceremonial Burial from some friendly villagers nearby.

So if you are going to keep up with which techs we have got, check that one.

By popular demand we will finish Iron Working, go for Alphabet, Get Writing, and then research Literature. After that if we dont get Pottery from a tribe or other civ we will get that and get Map Making.
I just got the game and i am examined it after i posted.
If anyone objects to the 2nd half of the proposal then feel free to speek up.

and all this time i thought our moderator was the only one that didn't own a copy of civ3.

what do u mean? I have civ3 i just didnt have the save.

my deepest apologies, civanator. i misunderstood your meaning of "the game". i believe i need some sleep.

There is some possibility that we will complete iron working in todays session, so if anybody has any objection the starting on alphabet next, they need to voice their opinion quickly. Personally, I believe the science minister's queue is excellent, and mirrors my opinion on the matter.

the DOC concurs. the Great Library will be an important addition to our capital.

As does the Department of Foreign Affairs. The Great Library will remove any dependence on foreign technology for quite some time. This will put us in an excellent bargaining position when dealing with other civilizations.

As It turns out in fact that we are a scientific people I wholly support the building of the great library. From what I have heard maintaining a scientific lead is more difficult under patch 1.17 so GL should be of great benefit.

Q about the Great Library. I assume we will start it by prebuilding something else. If we find, by the time the GL is to be built, that it would not be most advantageous, can we have a back-up plan? There are some cases (i.e. haven't found many civs, we have a tech lead, already close to Education, etc), where it might be more advantageous to have the Pyramids or Great Lighthouse, let alone come as a great consolation prize in case we do not win this battle.

Most of all, I would not want all our hard work to go in vain!

My 2 cents...

Originally posted by chiefpaco
Q about the Great Library. I assume we will start it by prebuilding something else. If we find, by the time the GL is to be built, that it would not be most advantageous, can we have a back-up plan? There are some cases (i.e. haven't found many civs, we have a tech lead, already close to Education, etc), where it might be more advantageous to have the Pyramids or Great Lighthouse, let alone come as a great consolation prize in case we do not win this battle.

Most of all, I would not want all our hard work to go in vain!

My 2 cents...

We will likely start building the Pyramids, since that is the only wonder available in our capital right now. Of course, if we find another wonder would be more beneficial, we will switch to that.

The Department of Foreign Affairs is pleased to have extracted many technological advances from our neigbours.

Among them:

The Wheel
Warrior Code
Pottery
Mysticism

And Phoenatica is currently researching Writing.

We hope that the Science department will be pleased with all the foreign science we have extracted from our neibours.

Benjamin Miller
Deputy Foreign Affairs Minister

Yes I am very pleased with the technologies we got from our neighbors. I am also pleased with the Foreign Ministry for telling me this update.

and from now on i will keep a research track at the 1st post of this thread so we know what we are researching:D ;)

We must start the construction of wonders soon

Originally posted by Civanator
and from now on i will keep a research track at the 1st post of this thread so we know what we are researching:D ;) Nice! May I suggest that you put the techs owned by our neighbours. Right now, Babylonians and Aztecs have Horseback Riding.

Recent military and analysis has called for the shifting of budget from research to immortal-upgrade-funds. I wanted to mention that here, as a proponent of the advancement of science myself, that I believe this to be the best and most efficient path to scientific success, and not a slight in any way on the importance of this subject.

It's a matter of economics and production rate.
You can do other things to get cash, but not production.
We can produce three immmortals with shields+cash at the same rate as shields-only (but this takes cash).
We can buy techs at literally one half the gold cost as researching it on our own.
We can demand tribute of techs when our arrogant foes come under the sword of these very immortals, for a further savings, allowing us to forge even further ahead on technology.

We have all we 'need' in this era thanks to the foreign dept's acquiring of techs, except for literature and monarchy. (Our goal rather than republic, but that discussion is a long way off)
It's just we not need be the first to research literature (or writing), but can buy it. *Especially* since we can in no way afford to let Fox Nest start on a wonder anytime in the next hundred or so year.

If we do get the chance to 'receive' techs by sparing someone for 20 turns, I hope to "make it up" some to the scientific cause.

General Charis

Science is currently at 20%, which is the lowest rate at which we are still researching. It will stay that way until further notice. We can discuss after todays session.

About that science rate, why is at the minimum?
At 90% we'll win 8 turns of research and lose only 2g/turn.
Isn't that acceptable. Is the money that important now?

Pggar is right. at 90% we'll only be losing 3 g/turn and get literature in 27. Also we'll be founding 2 new cities so that will put our income up. So i see no reason why we should put it down to 10%.

Originally posted by Civanator
Pggar is right. at 90% we'll only be losing 3 g/turn and get literature in 27. Also we'll be founding 2 new cities so that will put our income up. So i see no reason why we should put it down to 10%.

I agree. A couple of things happened in the last few turns of the last session that skewed the domestic slider. First, we completed 3 temples, reducing our income by 3 gold/turn, second, we completed a settler in Eyr, which is a corruption free city, further reducing our income. After we were finished, I realized a few other things that needed to be tweaked as well, but could not get access to the internet to mention them. I will elaborate after I get home from work.

I would like to thank the Science leader for making pertinent information available in the first post of this thread. It is great to be able to see at a glance how things are going!:goodjob:

It is disheartening to see that not only is the spending on science very low, but we do not have horseback riding and our neighbors do!

It would be so nice if the other departments had summaries in the first post of their threads!:enlighten

thanx for the comments donsig. also about the science we will be getting two cities very soon so that will raise our income to at least breaking even.

We should try to discover the advance 'The Rebublic'. The when this is discovered we will be blessed with extra commerce and science output. So by discovering this the science department will become more efficient!:goodjob:

I bring news from the militry department that the attack on our neighbouring countries will soon start (if not already). This should see extra commerce directed towards science and extra commerce from the cities that our glorious armies will capture.
*Salute*:king:

ok thanx for the info. after mapmaking we will be going for republic. objectors speak up.

To me it seems that the other tribes are staying in the upper portion of your tech tree (headed for Republic/Construction). Although these are worthy goals, we as a nation may obtain these with the Great Library. Might I suggest the alternate path of Polytheism. This may allow us to flank our rivals, so to speak. From there on to Monarchy. (Less war-weariness and the Hanging Gardens).

Because we already have three luxuries within our borders, republic is a viable option for a government. It is also quite possible that the AI civs will not research this, thus allowing us to trade it when we get it. I suggest republic as our next research goal.

Originally posted by eyrei
Because we already have three luxuries within our borders, republic is a viable option for a government. It is also quite possible that the AI civs will not research this, thus allowing us to trade it when we get it. I suggest republic as our next research goal.

I think republic is a good decision

eyrei has a good point, but cyc does too. Monarchy will have a military advantage and Republic will have a technology advantage. but i made the decision to go for Republic.

According to the "Do you understand Corruption?"-Thread does Monarchy and Republic have the same Corruption. The only difference is that Republic has a Commerce bonus. And that Monarchy is unaffected by war and have unit support.

So Monarchy might be the best option. As our glorious great war has started!

In my experience it is vital to build the Great Library (as Cyc noted). As eyrei mentioned, chances are high that our neighbors won't research republic. IMHO it's clear what our research path should be.

It should be shortcircuited with the domestic advisor what our status is regarding our capability to produce the GL. Also, we could start a premature discussion on the necessity of the GL.

GRTNX

Originally posted by Grey Fox
According to the "Do you understand Corruption?"-Thread does Monarchy and Republic have the same Corruption. The only difference is that Republic has a Commerce bonus. And that Monarchy is unaffected by war and have unit support.

So Monarchy might be the best option. As our glorious great war has started!

It is my educated guess that by the time we research another tech, and switch governments, the Great War will be long over. Therefore, I believe republic would be a much better government at that point, especially since we already have a variety of luxuries.

In honor of the National Science Department's role in our nation's development, the DOC would humbly offer this painting of our current Tech Tree. This painting is done by one of the artists soon to be displayed in the Phoenatica Cultural Art Museum (still under construction)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/techancient850bc.jpg

Trade Department Deals for Techs from Egypt

(as posted in trade thread)

Deal with Egypt

Update - 875BC

We have played one additional turn and there were many positive happenings for our nation.

First, we completed a bribe/trade deal with the Egyptians. As the polls clearly demanded that no alliance be made, there were also clear calls for a small deal with Cleo to entice her to stay out of the great war alliance.

I felt that somewhere between 2-5gpt would be enough to bribe her into neutrality. The best combination deal was 5gpt for four techs. As we are 7 techs behind, getting four of them back seemed prudent in combination with setting up the bribe. The tech's acquired were:

Horseback Riding (for our future war options)
Literature (much debate about the great library, now we can build it)
Code Of Laws (soon we will need courthouses)
Mathmatics (leads to catapults)

We could have given 10g and 4gpt, but I felt the 10g overall savings was little compared to the additional value of 5gpt in keeping Cleo silent.

If she backs out of the deal, we just bought 4 techs quite cheaply. If she keeps the deal, we are well served.

Our budget had a +15gpt surplus, in addition to keeping our warchest for immortal upgrades untouched.

Overall, I am generally opposed to gpt deals, but in this, our hour of need, this was a good deal for our future.

Bill
Trade Leader

I am back and i thank Pggar for taking over for me.

CENSUS OFFICE
The Census Office wants to remember all Citizens to re-register in the new official registry http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20720 !!!

CHAT OFFICE
The Chat Office wants to remember the Department Leaders to announce their chat-representatives in the thread http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20797 until 1 hour before the chat. They will NOT be voiced if not nominated in the thread!

Civinator needs the mod file because his is saved over.

Is there anyone who will volunteer to be a chat represenative(s)?
I need to know before 4 o'clock -5 GMT EST.

I'll do it

The Next turn chat is tonight at 23:00GMT



Grey Fox
If enough cabinet members can come, we will play tinight at 23:00GMT.

Civanator left me in charge of the Science department while he is gone.

For my Deuty I have Appointed Strider

I'm deputy!

When are you creating the Science Department term-2?

i was gonna have duke rename it to term 2 instead of 1

actually here is the Term - 2 thread:
NSD Term 2 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21716)