Discussions falling within the realm of the domestic leader should be discussed here.

I am surprized the Domestic leader hasn't replyed here yet.Since our first city has been build ,the domestic leader should have started making decission's on city placement and city construction queue's.

Also ,a screenshot for our first city here would be nice.

Here is a screenshot of Fox's Nest, our first city:

As you can see, Fox's Nest is producing a settler. The president and I decided to change that to a military unit because the city is not growing fast enough and we need to explore. I suggest a couple warriors, but that is the military departments decision. Two warriors or one spearmen can be built before we will switch to a settler, I think.

As far as city placement goes, that information is posted in the presidential thread, and I agree with the pink dot as first priority, the blue where the arrow points,and the yellow where the arrow points. I beleive the president concurs, so this is how it will be done unless the people raise enough objections to warrant a popular vote.

Generally, I intend to build two settlers in the capital, one to colonize the pink dot, and one to colonize the blue. The blue city will produce settlers for quite awhile, and the pink may build the colossus, while the capital builds a couple more settlers. The pink may also build a couple more settlers before the colossus. I really want to explore a lot more, so that city placements can be as efficient as possible.

The Department of Foreign Affairs strongly supports heavy warrior/scout production.

We need Workers To make aroad to that gold,Mine the smaller Mtns first,I recommend only 2 max warriors and produce some workers....when pop permits...

We're an industrialistic civ; surely we need less workers than normal to work those tiles, considering our workers are more hardworking than most. ;)

I say more warriors to explore now. Our lone worker can work the capital for now.

Without Shields you can build nothing.Shields are what it's all about.If we are taking a militant stance from day 1,then get me some slaves their only half as good but half is better than none.

The Department of Trade supports building two warriors prior to a settler for the pink dot city location.

Bill
Trade Leader

The Spice Traders Guild also lends their support in the early expansion of our nation. Even though we (the guild) are isolations in nature, we should have a sizable amount of resources to trade.

I absolutely agree with the domestic minister in the Pink-DOT approach, right on!!! :goodjob:

What is our policy on the first building?and thereafter buildings

I build barracks first and temple(library,which is sometimes more important depending on the situation) second because if you build a barracks in 20 turns and the temple is 30(50),after the barracks are built a temple becomes 15 turns(35).This makes Sun'Art of war useless as all your cities have barracks already.
Secondly I personally never waste time building wonders,If need wonders we'll take them.(I hope this topic will be debated).
I find it's better to produce workers esp if city is stagnent and produce the buildings that provide culture,knowledge e.t.c
Also we should produce as many settlers as possible early in the game.Dense Build Cities and mine and road everything.In games played this way you usually have the #1GNP
later in the game some wonders are useful(Leonardo's save 50% on upgrades).
I urge all citizens to post their views on what to build when.

The Spice Traders Guild strongly urges the construction of temples and libraries to gain access to spices via cultural expasion. We also see the need for barracks to train our forces that will protect our goods.

once we have built our warriors and our settlers (and any other troop units) we should focus on temples and libraries. Unrest will follow unless our people feel as though the government cares about them, luxeries now!

thank you for posting your views mj. i like to get the opinions of the deputy ministers right away. can't say i agree with you on the wonder thing. in my most recent game, because of AI trading and my b-line for literature, when i got the Great library built, i received 8 science advances. these 8 moved me to the next era, therefore a received monotheism for free as i was a scientific tribe. that's 9 free and put me as technologically advanced. so wonders are a good thing.
as far as barracks go, i say one or two in outlying areas, especially if we meet another tribe. if we secure iron, the immortals will reduce the need for immediate building of barracks. and i agree with your workers view. workers are good as once their immediate work is done, or no important work is needed, a worker can be put into a low pop city (maybe initiating new production).
the "one size fits all" never fit me when it came to game plans. especially with what i've seen of this game. compromise will be the key here. so many cooks mixing this brew. so i beleive each step, as the duck has laid out, should be a new one and examined for priorities.

The first settler will not be competed, by my calculation, during the upcoming turns. It will however, be completed a the beginning of the following session. Citizens have until then to voice any objections to the pink city position, otherwise, that will be the location of our second city.

As far as buildings go, we will not build a barracks in the capital unless we end up in a very early war. The first building will be a temple, as that will allow our capital to support a larger population while it builds a wonder. We WILL build wonders while I am domestic leader, though the capital will not start one until we have found 2 more cities capable of building settlers, at which point the capital will build a temple, and possibly a library before starting on the Great Library, as that seems to be the wonder of choice. I estimate we will have to build at least three settlers in the capital, and 5 or 6 warriors before any improvements will be started.

Originally posted by eyrei
As far as buildings go, we will not build a barracks in the capital unless we end up in a very early war.



I think this is a mistake Veteran Units are better no matter how you slice it.


We WILL build wonders while I am domestic leader, .

This is a democracy here and a top down I know it all attitude serves no purpose but to alienate others from posting opinions.There is no one way to play and win this game.
If this is the attitude of this gov't that we know what we are doing and the peasants know nothing then consider this my formal resignation from this regime.

Deputy Hendrix

Originally posted by marshalljames




I think this is a mistake Veteran Units are better no matter how you slice it.



This is a democracy here and a top down I know it all attitude serves no purpose but to alienate others from posting opinions.There is no one way to play and win this game.
If this is the attitude of this gov't that we know what we are doing and the peasants know nothing then consider this my formal resignation from this regime.

Deputy Hendrix

I agree veteran units are obviously better. The capital will most likely be switched to a wonder pretty soon, so there is no point in building a barracks there, yet, as it will not be building units.

I think your anger is unwarranted. My GOAL is to build wonders, rather than capture them, and I believe most of the citizens have the same opinion. I do not have the power to say a particular city builds a wonder, nor what wonder. However, I will push for this to happen, and I believe most of the populace will want at least one wonder in our glorious capital.

It was not really meant to anger or in anger,but a call to way all opinions.I urge again all citizens no matter what their level of expertize express their opinions.You may possess a unique perspective that those in power and experts have not thought of.

gentlemen! Gentlemen! our empire is young, there is to be much debate about the game, our cabinet must not fight inside itself or the entire position will collapse. Please both of you, have some dialogue or a refferendum will be in the future.

Originally posted by eyrei
As far as buildings go, we will not build a barracks in the capital unless we end up in a very early war. The first building will be a temple, as that will allow our capital to support a larger population while it builds a wonder. We WILL build wonders while I am domestic leader, though the capital will not start one until we have found 2 more cities capable of building settlers, at which point the capital will build a temple, and possibly a library before starting on the Great Library, as that seems to be the wonder of choice. I estimate we will have to build at least three settlers in the capital, and 5 or 6 warriors before any improvements will be started. Concurred on the barracks point, no point in churning out vet units if there's no one to fight. If we have many barbs around, plenty of 'opportunities' to train up to veteran stats.

If we want cultural exp of borders only and not to put down unrest, as the Persians, it's cheaper to build libraries. ;)

Our domestc leader hasn't been so active the previous day.none or the less i would ask him to decide on build queue's for our existing city's ,and a base queue for new city's.

hy domestic leader,
could you pls read through the proposals of this thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=236689&t=1681#post236689

maybe this would be a good idea for having a better overview over who is in the game and who is not in the game.
(and of course who lives where)

as the Persians, it's cheaper to build libraries.

This is the second erroneous reference I have seen that the persians are scientific(Someone said they were scientific in another thread).They are NOT.The persians are militaristic and commercial.(P17 instruction manual).
Therefore we run the risk of losing out in the race for the Great Library to a Scientific civ like the chinese.Hope we have an alt plan as"oh well let it be so"as you lose (ex 704) shields can be a humbling experience.


Please note that I did not use terms like"that's Insane".And "What are you talking about" and would sugest that those who use terms like this refrain from doing so un-less they want to start a flame war with me.

As for prodution queue's I would suggest we start building workers and settlers as population permits.It's all very nice to run of into the woods exploring but knowing about more land we can't develop anyways because we have NO WORKERS is pointless.Although early contact with other civ's is desirable.
We have incense to develop and a beautiful range of hills ideally suited for dense low population high SHIELD prodution cities to the south of the Fox's Nest.I would suggest that our prodution queue's for are first two cities reflect the URGENT need to develop the hills to the south.Also possibly consider recalling our warriors for guard duty until we have better developed the land that we already know.
Allthough there is a need for a prodution queue. I don't think they should be carved in stone.IMO it's better to go with the flow and use the queue as a guideline only.

No No No...

The Chinese are militaristic and industrious, the Persians really are scientific and industrious. I checked the editor....

This is the second erroneous reference I have seen that the persians are scientific(Someone said they were scientific in another thread).They are NOT.The persians are militaristic and commercial.(P17 instruction manual).

whoa, marshalljames. i made a mistake last night with civanator, so i'll be careful here. it appears you're looking in the manual for answers. the manual is outdated. check the civlopedia in the actual game for current info. i'm looking at the game right now on another puter and i see in the civilopedia under tribes that the persians are industrious/scientific. check it out.

and yes workers are good. so are settlers and warriors. it's a slow process. be patient

yep you guys are right.
great how much more useless information is in the instruction manual I wonder....

Originally posted by marshalljames
yep you guys are right.
great how much more useless information is in the instruction manual I wonder....
Page after page after page after page...

Originally posted by TheDuckOfFlanders
Our domestc leader hasn't been so active the previous day.none or the less i would ask him to decide on build queue's for our existing city's ,and a base queue for new city's.

Sometimes I forget that what I say in the chats does not count.

Anyway, for the time being, the capital will build 1 settler and then 2 warriors in rotation until further notice. I would like to switch the capital to a wonder ASAP, possible after the second settler in queue. I believe it is working on a warrior right now. Thus, the current build queue is: warrior, warrior, settler, warrior, warrior, settler, wonder. I normally do not build so many warriors, preferring to switch to spearmen, but warriors can be upgraded to our UU.

Eyr will build two warriors (one to keep in defense and one to continue scouting), a worker, another warrior, and a settler. The last warrior will be used to escort the settler. I would like to begin construction of a temple here ASAP (possibly after the settler), but this requires we found another city capable of building settlers quickly. Eventually, possibly after a temple, and another warrior, I would like to the build the Colossus here, as well. It may be preferable to build another warrior, warrior, settler group before the Colossus. Please state your opinions on this, as it is a major decision.

The new worker could continue improving the land around our cities, while the other builds roads to new city spots. As far as new city spots are concerned, I would like to build the next one near those flood plains to the NE, as that would make a good spot to build settlers.

the warrior, warrior, settler routine sounds good. the line up for eyr is also good. i don't know if i would build a 3rd settler in fox nest, let's see what the pop is then. where on fox's color coded map were you thinking to place the next city, exactly?

Unfortunately, the color coding seems to have disappeared. Luckily, we will be able to explore a bit more before we have another settler. I do heavily recommend that the next city be an excellent settler factory, as that will open up other options for our capital, and possibly Eyr, as well. Near those flood plains should do the trick.....

Then the most logical place for the settler/worker factory would be the NW flood plains.But I do think you should consider at least one more worker than you are planning.And switch from warrior's to spearmen when they are available(better defence).

Any idea's on the building queue's when we start to build infrastructure?
such as

Baracks-Temple(Library)-Courthouse-Granary-Aquaduct-University

as an example of the standard build with army units,workers,settlers interspersed??????

I think one worker will be enough for now. Our cities will not grow beyond size 3 while we are producing settlers, so each only needs three tiles developed. As we switch to building wonders and/or infrastructure in a couple of cities, namely Fox's Nest and Eyr, I intend to build another worker. Once the capital has finished building the settler it is working towards, it should probably build a temple to prepare for work on the Great Library, as this will enable another citizen to work the surrounding area. If we should decide to build the Colossus in Eyr, which is definately my preferance, I would like to build a temple after its second settler, to prepare for construction of the Colossus. In cities constructed further out, I suggest building a warrior or spearman, and then switching to a library, which can be rushed as soon as the pop hits 2. This will expand our borders so that our neighbors cannot easily settle in our area. After this initial cultural improvement, these cities will probably build a worker, and then settlers. A couple of cities, as our empire expands, should be designated as military training camps, and will build barracks after the library, followed by military units until we feel secure in our defenses.

I think our third city should be the one to produce a second worker, for now we have no need for them, the space between our two cities has already been paved.

as this seems to be the consensus I will support this prodution shedule.However I prefer to maximize my shield prodution early.I think the hills to the south west of Fox's Nest will make ideal cities for churning out military units.

again your plan sounds good. and your flood plain city for building settlers is well timed. i have gone to the saved game and checked the terrain in that area. i recommend placing the city right on the gold deposit just E/SE of the flood plain. there it will get two of the flood plain tiles plus will be situated in a very rich area as far as gold goes. this gold, as the city grows will accumalate quickly with little or no terrain improvement. (other than the road to bring back to the capital.) this gold mining town should have appropriate defensive measures. i believe the benefits of a city placed here will be multi-faceted.

I like your build plan. Would you consider rushing a temple from time to time? I'm sure some citizens might become unhappy, but it would be for the greater good of the city and our empire!

Originally posted by Cyc
again your plan sounds good. and your flood plain city for building settlers is well timed. i have gone to the saved game and checked the terrain in that area. i recommend placing the city right on the gold deposit just E/SE of the flood plain. there it will get two of the flood plain tiles plus will be situated in a very rich area as far as gold goes. this gold, as the city grows will accumalate quickly with little or no terrain improvement. (other than the road to bring back to the capital.) this gold mining town should have appropriate defensive measures. i believe the benefits of a city placed here will be multi-faceted.

I agree about the city placement, provided further exploration does not unveil a better spot. That is where the third city of our worthy empire will be founded, unless several citizens voice reasonable objections. This cities primary purpose for a long time will be to build settlers. Any suggestions for a name would also be useful.

if you feel it would be appropriate, you can use the name i posted earlier. the name is Khatovar. and by the way, the color coded map is half way down page 2 of fox's thread. this city placement would be purple #2

As those of you who downloaded the save are aware, there is a settler near the american border prepared to settle the area with the wheat and cows and rivers. My preferred choice is one square due east of the mountain where the settler stands, but we stopped the session because I wished to open this for discussion first.

The next settler will be placed near the iron to the south of Shailenhoga to make sure we are not beaten to it by the Americans.

Furthermore, the military department will be choosing the placement of the second settler we build, in preparation for immortal warfare. This cities build queue will start with either a temple or library, and then a barracks, at which point control will be handed over to the military leader at least until the end of the ancient age, and maybe longer.

These second two priorities are up for discussion, at least as far as which should take place first. In a way, the military city would best be first, as it would have time to build its cultural improvement while we are procuring the iron. However, we must make sure we get that iron.

Looking at the map I see 4 spots that we need to settle soon, but we only have 1 settler avaiable right now.

First things first:
In the matter of the next settlement what's the official decision? I think you're refering to spot A, right? (picture at the bottom of the post).

The other spots needing settlement are the ones close to the luxuries. Next to the dyes sources we'll have to decide whether we settle or we let the Americans do it and then take the city. Also, next to the unsettled spice sources we need to place two cities, one to get the the fish and the horse and another to secure the luxuries.

I don't know if we'll be able to expand fast enough. I suggest that the head of the department start to discuss the next settlements and set some priorities for them.

excellent graphics pggar. i think you and the president should start a side business.

the DOC supports placing of the PDX settler in spot "A". this will secure the most resources without being hindered by existing american cities. this will allow for quick growth of the city, as well as, a strategic land grab.

As a citizen, I wholly support A or B. After this, will we start filling our gaps? The A or B site is already pretty far from our capital & will experience some corruption. I'm surprised we haven't taken advantage of the nice terrain between Eyr & Shailonega. I hope this is our next priority, esp for the horses & grasslands. We could use another place or 2 to churn out settlers.

I like the new city's location, but would like to stress again the importance of finding the best terrain for our cities (as we all know already) since settlers are of high priority early, no? :)

BTW, should city location be a separate thread?

My friend, this is what the Domestic Dept. is all about.

Definitely in support of A

An excellent choice, and a nice map by Pggar :D
Glad to see us getting some settlers going to found more cities for our wonderful nation. (If things go well against Abe, we will gain another half dozen cities or more without need for a single settler! :P )

'A' does seem the way to go. I have some other thoughts for settlement, and have made a map to display these. They are based primarily on resources, and getting a city *ONE* square from iron for instant hookup (no temple required), since that city will also need a barracks. See the Mil thread for the map.

It also includes a spots with great food, commerce, gold, river, and other things of benefit to all. But for the needs of the upcoming campaign, Iron is key.

The current settler is RIGHT next to 'A', so he should likely continue on there. I would suggest Eyr (?? the one with population 2 right now) switch from worker to settler to found the 'iron city' right away. If however, your dept does not wish to switch to settler, the current settler should likely divert to an iron. That city needs iron hookup, barracks, and enough growth to reach at least 5 shields (ideally 10) as soon as we can, so we can't delay it long.

Also in that post I recommend switching Fox Nest off warrior to Barracks immediately.

General Charis

Eyr will build at least one more settler after the worker it is building. That settler will be founded near the iron, at location 2 from Charis screenshot in the military thread.

Please coordinate with the Military and Executive branches to prepare for imminent declaration of war against America. The people have spoken. To war! To war! To war!

Why are we not settling south of Fox's nest to stop the romans from getting that Incense.Are we not interested in luxuries????

Those hills will provide effecient cities that produce(military units not population),shields are what it's all about.

We are to far spread out I can see by the high number of turns to complete things and it seems we are going to have long un-protected roads all over the place that can be easily sabotaged.

And we don't have enough mines to produce shields which are used to produce things.NO SHIELDS NO EMPIRE BUILD MINES NOW>>>>>>

Deputy Hendrix

Originally posted by marshalljames
Why are we not settling south of Fox's nest to stop the romans from getting that Incense.Are we not interested in luxuries????

Those hills will provide effecient cities that produce(military units not population),shields are what it's all about.

We are to far spread out I can see by the high number of turns to complete things and it seems we are going to have long un-protected roads all over the place that can be easily sabotaged.

And we don't have enough mines to produce shields which are used to produce things.NO SHIELDS NO EMPIRE BUILD MINES NOW>>>>>>

Deputy Hendrix

I think you need to consider the limited number of turns that have been played. We are on par with EVERY other civ as far as expansion goes. The reason we are producing few shields is because our population is very low, having just rushed several temples and built several settlers. As far as mining and settling those hills to the south, they will not be good production cities, because they will be limited to a two population in most cases. Mines are useless when there is noone to work them. While our workers have built mostly roads, they have irrigated only one square, and mined 4. Have patience, Rome was not built in a day.

I'll concede the limited turns,but if you build the mines the people will come and because of its close proximity to the capital will be able to produce a lot of shields per turn even with a low population(little or no waste).a mine enables us to extract food from the hills.GOTM4 the chinese was like this,I had a lot of small towns that turned out military units in 3 to 5 turns.

Originally posted by marshalljames
I'll concede the limited turns,but if you build the mines the people will come and because of its close proximity to the capital will be able to produce a lot of shields per turn even with a low population(little or no waste).a mine enables us to extract food from the hills.GOTM4 the chinese was like this,I had a lot of small towns that turned out military units in 3 to 5 turns.

Hills give you one food no matter what you do to them. I do agree that we need to expand down to the south. The hill to the south of the horse next to the inland sea is a promising spot, and is second on my priority list, next to the spot on the hill two tiles SW of the iron near Civinator. However, a good number of our citizens seem to desire that we slow down settler production in favor of a more military expansion. While I do not necessarily agree with this stance, since we are nowhere close to being boxed in, I must bow to the will of the people.

Well hopefully those generals at black masses will bring us some needed slave labour.Remove the American vermin from our land.

Deputy Hendrix

hy domestic leader...
IMHO, we should URGENTLY have a settler running in the lands north of eyr. we sould build a city there and asap as much culture as possible to secure the land. this way we prevent others from settling there during our babylonian war.
we should also build more culture in kathovar soon, for securing the lands between khatovar and fox nest.

I propose an individual thread be posted so that the citizenry may discuss their exact loction preference for each new city. This would give the people a general voice in the movement of our borders. As a discussion has been running in the military corridors about the random noise in their threads, i believe a separate thread for city placement should also be started. The citizenry can be as vague as, "I'd like to see us expand our perimiter", or as specific as "in the grasslands north of that hill by the horse". This not only give the people a voice in the movement of the nation, it also gives the leaders of the departments a reference place to check the general or specific wants of the nation. As the number of cities being placed are starting to dwindle, this thread will see less an less traffic. But it will still be a place to concetrate our thoughts and feelings about this issue. This should also be the place where the Domestic Leader and President voice their intentions for our settlers. Granted they both have there own thread now, but little is said about placement in these threads.

The next couple of placements will be crucial to the defense of our nation, and though we are a young nation, there has already been heavy discussion about the misplacement of a city. I'm sure this subject will arise many more times in the future, (or in future games). In starting a specific thread to address these opinions, I believe we will be starting a path to a happier people and a more informed leadership. We might even consider making it a sticky.

And BTW Disorganizer, the name of the city is Khatovar.

didnt i say this ;-)
sorry for the typo.

we should also start a seperate thread for province-placement and naming.

Do we need the Great Library?

Or should we aim for the Pyramids?

I think it might be better to build the Pyramids...

The DOC would say definately the Great Library over the Pyramids. In fact if not the Great Library, then the Oracle or the Hanging Gardens. I believe we've lost the race for the Pyramids and with the others listed, we can keep our people smart and happy.

Yeah I do think it might be better to build the GL. As that was our initial strategy and we have been playing to get it.

I think we need the Great Library, look at how far behind we are technologically at the moment. With the Library we would could catch up in one turn. I noticed that were behind one civ by around 7-10 techs. This will be next to impossible for us to catch up with them, without buying it all, and that could get to be expensive.

Also I feel that if need be we can get the benifits of the Pyramids by manually building the Granaries. But, this could get expensive as well, however, I think it's more important to ensure we don't lose the tech. race. Without the tech. our military could become useless in later years.

Look how fast the tech race is proceeding. By the time the GL would be finished, I bet we're in the Middle ages, or at best one tech away. I would estimate 20-30 turns after that, at a MAX, before the GL expires. It's conceivable Education will arrive as it's about to be finished.

Double the food supply in our nation???? Now THAT'S of interest and lasting value.

I'm hoping we get several key techs from the "ABE" library, not the Great Library :rolleyes:

Just 2c...
General Charis

Originally posted by Charis
Look how fast the tech race is proceeding. By the time the GL would be finished, I bet we're in the Middle ages, or at best one tech away. I would estimate 20-30 turns after that, at a MAX, before the GL expires. It's conceivable Education will arrive as it's about to be finished.

Double the food supply in our nation???? Now THAT'S of interest and lasting value.

I'm hoping we get several key techs from the "ABE" library, not the Great Library :rolleyes:

Just 2c...
General Charis

Now here is a rare occasion. I completely agree with the military advisor, except for the part about the "Abe" library. I do not think this will be necessary right now, as we still have room to expand. All we need is one victory with an Immortal and the golden age begins. We can destroy the Americans in the middle ages, and our immortals will still be effective.

I would estimate 20-30 turns after that, at a MAX, before the GL expires. It's conceivable Education will arrive as it's about to be finished.



Couldn't agree more.GL=waste of time and effort

I go even further to say it's a waste of time to build any wonder in the early ages(depending on civ,religous civ have advantage for pyramids,very useful if you are on a large continent all those freebie granaries are a bonus).Better to use your capital's high production rate for infrastructure and military units.And when we get some larger cities near the capital then think about some middle age wonders.my fave's being Adam Smiths Trading(more cash) and Leornardo's workshop(save a bundle of cash on upgrades).But then again I've read in the strategy section that some think Leonardo's workshop is useless.Go figure.

Although I have no power I would support General Charis in a military Coup d'etat if things get any worse.Sounds like he'son the ball.

Deputy Hendrix

Although the Great Library is still my favorite wonder it's mostly for sentimental reasons in 1.17. Tech is so cheap because of AI tech whoring that the value of the GL is greatly diminished. We are now in a situation, however, where the GL could be a major factor again. We are at war with more than half of the known world. It's not at all inconceivable that the rest of the world will be involved very soon. With so many civs at war it's very, very likely that they'll keep dragging other civs into the mess. That does two things - it reduces everybody's research speed and it makes it impossible for us to get techs from a whole buncho AI's. I support the GL for our current situation.

Originally posted by marshalljames
Although I have no power I would support General Charis in a military Coup d'etat if things get any worse.Sounds like he'son the ball.

Deputy Hendrix

I am beginning to wonder why you are in the domestic department. Seems to me you belong in the military department. Maybe we should ask Charis about a transfer.....

If we get a lead on the Americans and start conquering cities. We could demand many of their techs when negotiating for peace.

If this would prove possible, maybe the Pyramids would be a better deal.

As this continent is VERY large. And we have no granaries if I remember correctly.

As the DOC supports the building of the Great Library (or liberry as the Americans say it), and then supports the Oracle followed by the Hanging Gardens if this can't be accomplished, if the Pyramids were chosen by the people to be our option, we would look upon it in a good light.

I would just like to say that we have some time before we have to make this decision. One thing to consider, is that we can probably have any one wonder we want, assuming we start a golden age with our immortals in the near future. I am leaning towards the pyramids right now, though if this war continues for very long, we will need the GL to catch up in tech. If we end this war without crippling our economy, we should be able to catch up soon by buying these techs. The pyramids never expire, and would give us a huge advantage, rather than just bringing us up to par.

Originally posted by eyrei
The pyramids never expire, and would give us a huge advantage, rather than just bringing us up to par.
Very good point. As we are either on a massive continent or a pangaea, the Pyramids' value increases.

I think we should have GL becouse the turn we build it we proably go in to the middle ages and we are so after the rest so that we need to get ahead again. this stratagy I used when I played a game,you need to be in the same tech level as the computer. you need to have peace with the most advanced civ in the world and you talk to him every turn and see if he got any new tech and then you trade for it and in the same turn you trade away that tech and make alot of money:) . It must be done the same turn or the computer will trade away that tech afterwards.

It will not be fun if we is after the computer in tech race or else we will meet knights when we have imortals and that would not be good.

the GL can be useful in slow, laid back games or in games in which you are incredibally behind the AI(we're talking at least 1 era) this is not one of those situations.

Originally posted by eyrei
The pyramids never expire, and would give us a huge advantage, rather than just bringing us up to par.

I don't see what advantage we would get. I view it as bringing us to par in people production (as some of our rivals have quite good breeding grounds, or bringing us up to par in tech.

The GL doesn't just expire and do nothing, it does provide a massive culture boost later in the game, whereas unless we uncover some other luxuries, we will be hard pressed to control large populations without paying luxury fees.

I think this is all moot though, as I doubt we will beat anyone to the Pyramids, but we shall see. It is a very good discussion though.

Bill
Trade Leader

don't forget about the Oracle, it would only take 13 turns to get it at this point.

Dear Domestic Leader,

since we allready have a governor for the second province and this was already named, we urgently need to define the borders for our provinces and the name of our first(!) province which is run by you as governor.
i also did not find a definition of which cities belong to which province.
i know we are at wartime, but we should not give chaos and anarchy a chance. we should still be organized well to master this challenge our gods put up for us.

We must decide where else to put our settler near the new Egyptian town. It's too far out to take it back to the NW, so I suggest that the settler go two boxes SW and one to the West.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/new_spot.jpg

Here it is specifically. It will get two Spices, one Gold and a nice mountain range for sheilds. The biggest problem I see is growth. What do you all think of my suggestion?

On one hand, Falcons suggestion is very good, and definately a future city site. I presents a military problem as well as a benefit. I am not sure we could defend it this soon, as we have no offensive troops in the area. On the other hand, it could draw enemy forces away from the capital.

I suggest the spot to the east, on Lake Phoenatica, that was discussed in the city placement thread as, I believe, the second option to the spot the Egyptians beat us to. It should be relatively safe from attack, unless the Egyptians join the war, and would be an excellent city spot.

I understand your concern, but I have no doubt Egypt will join the "crusade" against us. And with that in mind my spot will be safer, closer to reinforcements, and farther from the enemy. (excluding Asyut of course).

It would take an extraordinary bribe from another civ to get the Egyptians to declare war on us due to the trade deal between our two empires. This is not to say that it will not happen, but it is unlikely.

Originally posted by eyrei
It would take an extraordinary bribe from another civ to get the Egyptians to declare war on us due to the trade deal between our two empires. This is not to say that it will not happen, but it is unlikely.

I agree.

Plus were they to declare war through an alliance, I would immediately target the bribing party for peace. Many times your more crooked AI leaders will bribe someone into war and settle for peace immediately thereafter.

The bribing party here would surely come close to bankrupting themselves since most of the AI's have been in war mode for a while now against us. Making the briber a prime target for some much needed cash.

Bill
Trade Leader

I stand behind Eyrei's choice. I think Eyrei's site is very defendable. Even if Egypt turns against us, it is on a hill (defensive bonus) and has good growth & production potential.

The best terrain available to Falcon's spot are plains, forest, and hills. I don't think Falcon's spot would grow quick enough to be as productive. It would be fine for a future spot, but right now, I think the land is too marginal to help us as much in the future (immediate or long-term).

I have suggestion the next turn when we get all techs, We need to increse the science spending too keep ahead of the others civs.
Or we will fall back again.

Originally posted by crabapple
I have suggestion the next turn when we get all techs, We need to increse the science spending too keep ahead of the others civs.
Or we will fall back again.

We will not fall behind until we discover Education, at which point, we will hopefully have a more efficient government (republic or monarchy) and will have more to expend on science.

we sould start nominations for our next governor.... the third province is here! and eyrei: you should name our first province (or maybe we should name it "?")

we should also discuss a constitution change to:
a) allow more than 5 cities in a province (more fexibility in constitution)
b) define that we use geographically based provinces independent of the city-count

CENSUS OFFICE
The Census Office wants to remember all Citizens to re-register in the new official registry http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20720 !!!

CHAT OFFICE
The Chat Office wants to remember the Department Leaders to announce their chat-representatives in the thread http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20797 until 1 hour before the chat. They will NOT be voiced if not nominated in the thread!

I have thought long and hard about a name for our first province, and have finally come to a conclusion. Keeping with the trend Skilord started, I wish to call our first province Istar .

I do think the provinces should be allowed to contain more than five cities, if the geographical placement makes sense. At some point in the near future, I will post several polls to narrow down what the citizens believe to be good rules regarding our provinces.

dear domestic leader,

could you urge the governors to post a updated city list in the 1st post of the province-thread?

Could you, as governor of Istar, please also open a thread for your province?

Maybe we should have those threads sticky also.

Originally posted by disorganizer
dear domestic leader,

could you urge the governors to post a updated city list in the 1st post of the province-thread?

Could you, as governor of Istar, please also open a thread for your province?

Maybe we should have those threads sticky also.

Hehe. I am beginning to think your alias is really inappropriate.:p

well. it IS my job. no?

disorganizer organizes our empire ;-)

FYI. Should changing governments immediately to a monarchy be presented at tonights chat, the vote of the domestic department is that we should remain in despotism. Good luck!

All department heads please vote on the VP Position Band-Aide Measure. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21178)

hy domestic leader.
what about our province-borders? nobody seems to care?

I'm not sure whether this was covered in another thread but, about build queues.

Right now, we have access to 4 luxuries. In towns, I think temples should be low on our priority list right now. Libraries are of higher culture, are cheaper to build, and contribute to our science funding. I noticed Washington was on "temple". It already has a library. Could this be changed?

Some things we could use instead of temples, in general:
- Military unit for each town.
- Workers. Especially our 1-shields cities. That is one thing they can produce in 10 turns.
- Library to expand our borders.
- Some barracks in our frontal towns. For healing and upgrading units.

Perhaps we can make Temples a consideration of all size 7 cities?

May I also suggest we consider rushing a military unit in any defenseless town that is 2 squares away from an enemy unit and no help in sight? If that is ever to occur?

Can the domestic leader make a general priority list for new towns? Or is it too situationally dependent?

Originally posted by chiefpaco
I'm not sure whether this was covered in another thread but, about

build queues.

Right now, we have access to 4 luxuries. In towns, I think temples

should be low on our priority list right now. Libraries are of higher

culture, are cheaper to build, and contribute to our science funding.

I noticed Washington was on "temple". It already has a library. Could

this be changed?

Some things we could use instead of temples, in general:
- Military unit for each town.
- Workers. Especially our 1-shields cities. That is one thing they

can produce in 10 turns.
- Library to expand our borders.
- Some barracks in our frontal towns. For healing and upgrading units.

Perhaps we can make Temples a consideration of all size 7

cities?

The main reason that temples are a priority right now is because of the

age bonus for 1000 year old culture buildings. I do agree that we need

more workers, and I actually suggest that all cities not designated for

military production (which are still most of them, because we are still

at war with everyone)build a worker of their own immediately after

finishing their first culture building. Personally, I think Washington

should finish its temple, but this is in Skilord's province. I do

agree that libraries have priority over temples for the reasons you

stated. I believe, that right now, a city with 2 military police (the

max for despotism) and access to all of our luxuries, will have two

happy citizens, 2 content citizens and two unhappy citizens at size 6.

If we add a temple, it will negate one unhappy citizen giving us only

one unhappy and 3 happy. If we switch to monarchy, which seems likely

to happen, and add another unit for police, the final unhappy citizen

will be eliminated, and there will be 4 happy, which will spark a WLTK

day. Note that the last two conditions can be interchanged, and both

need to be met for a WLTK day. If the city has been pop rushed in the

last 40 turns, I believe there will still be 3 happy and 3 content, if

these are both met which will still allow a WLTK day. My reason for

explaining this is that, without an increase in the luxury rate, cities

will not be able to enter a WLTK day without a temple or an

entertainer. An extra working citizen for a city will almost always

make up for the maintenance of a temple.

WLTK days are very important for managing corruption and waste, which

is going to be pretty bad otherwise, until we build the forbidden

palace.


May I also suggest we consider rushing a military unit in any

defenseless town that is 2 squares away from an enemy unit and no help

in sight? If that is ever to occur?

This is up to the military. If you are referring to the legion that is

about to sack Atlanta, I say this is necessary.


Can the domestic leader make a general priority list for new

towns? Or is it too situationally dependent?

I do not feel comfortable doing this until we are at peace with our

neighbors.

Domestic Department Term 2 Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21614)