Aloha has accepted open borders, but I thought they were supposed to tell us about the barb city in return. Anyway our warrior got a good look but Aloha isn't around. It's only protected by two warriors and has a barracks.

Two cottages finished and are being worked, costs us two food but growth in Ploughland and settler production in Wheelville were unaffected.

Also, discovered a tribal village in the great white north.

Tribal village has been there for 2 turns or something,

send an axeman there as soon as possible, it would be a great city site, and it's almost for free.

Lets send two axemen to take the barb city first (It should grow to size 2 by then) then the third can liberate the village.

Also how about open borders with Loco?

They haven't offered it, have they?

No they haven't. In fact, they still haven't responded to the message we sent them two weeks ago...

resend one?

Just played.

Loco has built a new city.
A barbarian warrior has appeared in the east (no danger to us).

Lets ask Loco for Open Border.

Sinsburge is building an obelisk, but maybe we can switch to granary. Religion will give it border expansion.

The warrior in Ploughland can be upgraded to Axe for 80 gold, we have 170, then they can start marching to the barb city next turn.

Looks like clam city will be next so I started roading to that spot, other worker is roading to Sinsburge.

Loco's new city and a barbarian warrior.

We are starting to fall behind, but the new cities should catch us up.

I basically agree with everything 1889 said :agree:

And I'll send another message to Loco...

We are starting to fall behind, but the new cities should catch us up.
We are well placed in food output and soldiers and in a decent position regarding land area and population, so I don't think it's that bad. We could use a higher production and commerce income though.

Already sent so things to maybe do next time:

Switch Sinsburge to Granary.
(Now that it has grown to 2 how about worker instead?)
Offer Open Border to Loco.
Upgrade Ploughland warrior to Axe and march both toward barbcity.
(I would suggest working the copper mine to build another Axeman)
EDIT: I need to look into this more closely first.

The upgrade will leave us with 80 gold in the treasury and we currently pay 4 per turn in upkeep. In short order we will have 2-3 more units and 2 cities to support so I'll do some experimenting later today to make sure we can afford this plan.

Innovian economy 450 BC

In 10 turns
Wheelville will have the Hindu Shrine (+2) and the cottage will have grown (+1). When the settler is complete it can stop working pigs and work a coastal tile (+2) while building a library.

Clam city will have been built and connected (-2, projected upkeep, +1 trade route, with the shrine religion should spread here fast but, so eventual +1)
Working the pigs will have grown the population and let them work clams (+2)
The city can begin a work boat and the worker can mine those hills.

Ploughland’s cottage will have grown (+1) the other cottage will grow in 13 turns.
New population will probably work copper mine and produce two more axemen. Lets not upgrade that warrior, we need him for happiness and we have other units with experiance that can upgrade

Sinsburg will have a trade route (+1) and the worker will have built a cottage (+1). Can change production to worker.

Summary:
Clam city will cost 2 upkeep and we already pay 4,
But growth will give us 11 gold over the next 10 turn.

Assuming upkeep from number of cities will stay 1 and civics and inflation stay 0.

Should be fine building another worker and two more axemen, new city should increase free unit support enough to keep them free.

Capturing Barb city will cost at least 3 in upkeep but considering growth and improvements should also be affordable.

Not much to report..but anticipation!

The Arabs stood firm atop the nameless hill. Before them stretched the barren wastes of trackless desert, a desert that they imagined someday filled with the cities farms and roads of their descendants. The barbarian horde climbed the small mound not to take their land but only to take their lives for they too had a vision of the desert that they wished to deliver to their descendents, that of a land free from Arab cities, farms and roads.

The viscous horde moved slowly but steadily forward. Like a force of nature they had no inclination toward bravery or courage nor did they suffer doubt or fear. The Arab defenders outnumbered and far from home felt all this and more as they waited for the enemy to get within range of their clubs.

The first swings smashed heavily into the first barbarians to reach the top, but most never had time for a second swing before being subducted under a wave of melee. What followed that wave was the main body of the Arab band, hidden amongst the rocks they sprang on the barbarians from behind…

Also some routine junk:

-Open Border offered to Loco.

-Only a few people were in favor of changing production so I just left Sinsburge alone, it will finish Obelisk in 8.

-Axeman finished next turn, with luck we may be able to take barb city with just the one.

-Alphabet in 5 turns. Should we start shopping for tech trades? We also have some very nice choices for our next research.
Masonry - Monotheism for organized religion
Monarchy could be a happiness solver.
Math will lead to Calendar, and many others, so we can get plantations on our sugar and future tobacco and silk.
Meditation allows monasteries but may be available from trade.
Literature opens a couple nice wonders.
Sailing for galleys, but no trade routes yet.

check what the others have first, Theoden, are you going to send some messages?

Leave the obelisk there, we don't have monastries or missionaries yet.

I think we should try to capture the barb city with just the one axeman, the chance is very high so not much of a gamble.
check what the others have first, Theoden, are you going to send some messages?
I will do when I get home, about 3 hours from now.

I think for the next tech, we should go for Monarchy (unless a trade is perhaps possible, if some other civ has it). I see we have a lot of food potential within our borders, but our low happiness cap is limiting our growth. We are last in both GNP and Manufactured Goods, which is not good. The only way we can rectify the problem is to put our excess food to use to boom our cities to incredible sizes, and either work a whole lot of extra land or put some specialists to work. (Specialists will be extra useful since we are Philosophical.) Monarchy is the way we can do all of that.

We are also desperately in need of some more cities - I see we have a Settler near completion, perhaps another soon would be good. We of course don't want to stifle our economy, but we don't want to leave ourselves weak either. As a side note, Polynesian will be razed if it does not reach size 2 before we attempt to capture it (just in case you didn't already realise).

Perhaps, thinking into the future, a wonder for our glorious innovative civilization would be of great benefit? I see we have a source of marble to the north... if that could possibly be hooked up through another city, then we could perhaps get to the Great Library first, which would be truly excellent for us, improving both our research and Great Person generation rate dramatically.

In the short term, more cottages would seem to be the best idea... we don't appear to have many (three in total, I believe). Let's get spamming them all over the place. Build an extra Worker if needed, perhaps. We also need a few more Axemen, methinks (especially since this is vanilla Civ4, so Axemen are basically invincible units for the next hundred or so turns). All these Warriors making up the bulk of our army makes me a bit nervous, especially with barb Archers and Axes sure to start appearing in the not too distant future.

Okay, I think that's all I've got to say on that for now. Those are just some random thoughts of mine after taking a first look at the save just now - feel free to take or leave my opinions. :)

Great ideas Lord Parkin *mumbles to theo "show off"* Keep up the good work :)

we could use our warriors as Military police, but I think the ones furthest away should keep exploring. Meeting another civ would be way more important.

I agree though, we could expand a lot more with monarchy and cottages.

(monarchy is even cheaper than code of laws!)

Sure, one or two Warriors are good for exploring, but you surely don't need the whole army marching over the continent to discover what's going on. :)

We still haven't met two teams, and because we're close to discovering Alphabet, more contacts are better.

Yep, but the fact remains that three Warriors do not scout towards a region at three times the speed. You don't need to overcompensate on the scouts. ;)

We've now got one warrior exploring to the west, and one exploring to the south near Loco. That one should come back, and we should send something to the NE to seek Aloha.

Some good thoughts there, Lord Parkin. I agree that Monarchy is a high priority tech at the moment.

OTOH we could start on Literature right after we finish Alphabet, and with marble we should have a good chance at the Great Library. It would give us 16 GPP meaning that we'll get several scientists quite early in the game. :eek:

*mumbles to theo "show off"*
What? :confused:

GL would be cool but it will take time and resources to develop the Marble and even then it costs 170 hammers. By the time we finish will be so glad to have two free scientists or would we rather have 5 axemen or something?

I know nobody wants to start a fight but it is a really effective way to win the game. Especially when others are building wonders.

Consider this example: After capturing barb city, send 4 axemen toward Aloha, build more in Ploughland and a few galleys in Wheel to ship them over.

I have a natural builder style in civ, but I can see your point. Actually I think a war against Loco might be a good move, since they don't seem to be very friendly and we know where they are.

What? :confused:
Nevermind. I have a dry sense of humor, and at this point it's lost it's flavor :(

Yeah, as I said in the other thread, Literature would be a good choice too. In fact, if we hook up the Marble with our next city, then I think it should definitely be our priority. It's more important right now in these early stages (IMHO) to get our research up and running properly, rather than to worry about sending in an attack. Besides, have you actually looked at the distance between us and Loco? By the time we send in a small invasion force by land, their army would have doubled in size and probably undergone a technological upgrade. Plus they would no doubt have a very high probability of spying our force as it approached their lands, thus giving them plenty of time to prepare for us. (Surprise is a key element against human players in MP.)

So, on that note, I think that right now it's more important for us to focus on getting a superb wonder like the Great Library in the near future, and then move on to beefing up our military significantly later on. That's my opinion anyway. ;)

Team Loco's capital seems to be rather close to ours by sea, maybe send in an naval invasion later on? (And be prepared to face a naval invasion too!)

Loco has not accepted the open borders agreement so our warrior way down south doesn't have anything to do except make the long walk home. Anyone have a better suggestion?

Warrior up north will explore outbound 2 more turns then head back, but maybe he should head home now, exploration up their is pretty tapped out and not likely to result in much gain for us.

We won the battle with barbs on the grassland hill but need 4 turns to heal. Then they can head NE and look for Aloha.

I kept the new Axe in Ploughland for right now because the warrior wouldn't be good enough if Loco's warrior declared war and tried to pillage some tiles.

Maybe we sould consider upgrading the other two warriors to axemen. We can certainly afford 1 and can do both with a slight science rate reduction.

Settler next turn, Clam city is the popular choice to settle, what will the name be?

By the way Aloha is now within our borders and has never responded to any of our requests for information. Some ideas are to cancel open borders in 7 turns (by which time our territory will be fully explored) or end it by declaring war but without attacking their warrior.

Chowderton for Clam City

Tell Aloha to cough up some data or we're at war.

Is there nothing else to explore down there?

I'd say not to declare war, but harbor feelings and prepare for war :D That way, at this distance we've got the possible surprise element.

We've given them open borders with nothing to gain in return? :eek: They'd better start filling out their side of their bargains soon... personally, I don't think it was wise to accept the open borders, but there you go... it's too late for that now. Got to work from where we are now. ;)

Has anyone here ever played BCLG (Aloha's captain) in a PBEM? I was looking at Regentman's spolier and BCLG is pretty tough. I'm not happy about it but I think we should declare war and kill their warrior.

The fact that they won't even return our calls suggest that they have already marked us as enemies probably just becuse we are closer than Loco.

Since I can't envision an attack on their territory (we don't even know where they are yet) We will just have to continue expanding and keep our millitary strong, while they will have to send their forces to attack us.

Best case: we force their hand before they really wanted to do this or maybe they decide its too expensive or problematic and we can make peace and earn some respect.

Worst case: Our growth is stiffled, Loco joins up against us and we are wiped out.

Been meaning to challenge him to a PBEM, but haven't had the chance yet. I believe DaveShack is currently in a game against him, IIRC.

Either way I'm not sure. We've trusted them this far, let's see what happens over the next 7 turns. We should make at least one more pointed and obvious effort to get them to communicate. If all we get is silence, or the slippery shoulder with no actual useful information again, then we should start considering a war with them. We should perhaps contact Loco on the turn of the attack (once our intentions are absolutely sure) to try to win their favour, or at least get them to stay neutral.

Explain to them that if they attack us, we're both skrewed up, and epsilon will be a run-away.

I'm in a PBEM with BCLG but it's still very early, we haven't met.

In the pitboss I'm hosting, BCLG knocked me out under conditions where he would have had me as an ally against someone he want to war with later. I think as a individual he'd probably honor committments, as long as he sees it as an actual obligation. He complied with a 10 turn warning agreement with grs in the same pitboss, and voluntarily paid reparations after pillaging another players conquored city during the resistance period.

I'm in a PBEM with him as well. I actually declared on turn 5 when I saw his explorer, and killed him before he found my territory. It's a tiny 1 vs 1, so war was imminent anyways. I also ended up being one of his allies in the game that daveshack hosted. I can tell you with no hesitation that BCLG will honor his commitments. Can't say as much for the rest of the team though. The only other one I've had game knowledge of is Robi. He looks for reasons to go to war.

So it looks like we can all agree, BCLG and the rest of his crew are stone cold killers. Lets not forget, this game is not like the ISDG - only one team walks out of here. Maybe we have been overestimating the value of diplomacy in such a situation.

Which is why we need to ensure we can support ourselves technologically... so hence the importance of getting the Great Library. (As well as building plenty of Axemen for defence, of course.)

Loco has accepted open borders. So our southern warrior will head back and explore there.

If anybody is planning to attack they won’t do it until they are done exploring so we’ll use the time to prepare. Warrior in NW is coming home (9 turns away), the guy on the hill will heal (3 turns) and head NE looking for Aloha’s border. Next turn our 1 xp warrior will be back in our border by Ploughland and be upgraded to Axe the turn after that. The new axe will head to Barb city and see if he can take it (6 turns).

Sinsburg (obelisk 7): pig pasture done, cottage up next, workboat next build. Another worker in the area will finish road and open trade route.

Ploughland (axman 4): hills will get mined as soon as workers return.

Wheelville (worker 4): cottage being constructed, library up next will be rushed.

Chowderton: settled next turn, will work clams and build work boat.

we should get a settler for the marble - great librarycity out soon too.

I don't want it and in the "Goals" thread wonders got zero vote so don't think many others want it either. Monarchy would be my choice for the next tech, not Literature. Sheep city would be my choice for city #6.

Which is why we need to ensure we can support ourselves technologically... so hence the importance of getting the Great Library. (As well as building plenty of Axemen for defence, of course.)

Does the Great Library really help that much? It gives +2 free scientists, but that's all unless I've completely misread the 'pedia. Granted, that's a lot, but I see a lot of people seemingly giving it the same importance as it has in Civ3 which doesn't look right to me.

Does the Great Library really help that much? It gives +2 free scientists, but that's all unless I've completely misread the 'pedia. Granted, that's a lot, but I see a lot of people seemingly giving it the same importance as it has in Civ3 which doesn't look right to me.
Well, the two free scientists (+6 science) is not all of it. The library and the specialists together give 8 GPP which is doubled by philosophic trait to 16 GPP. That's a great scientist in 19 turns, another one in 19 more turns and the third 25 turns after that. Not to be underestimated.
But I think the decision if we should build it depends on what our longterm strategy is. Do we plan to become a peaceful economically developed empire or a pointy stick research warmonger?

Great about open borders with Loco, though they haven't responded anything...

I agree with you Daveshack. Although it does influence our chances of getting a great scientist.

EDIT: Man, it took me 2 minutes to write this???

Oops, I seriously blew it. When I opened the save it said "They have accepted your offer" I though cool and hit exit diplomacy, but looks like you need to hit offer trade again to accept. I will be sending an apology and explanation.


To Team Loco,

When I opened the save on our turn I was pleased to see that the open border agreement had been accepted. I hit “exit diplomacy” and played the turn not realizing that I was supposed to hit “offer trade” to accept. I’m sorry that my mistake may cost you one turn of exploration, but I hope you will accept my apology for this foolish error and re-offer open borders. Be assured that it will be accepted properly next time.

With apologies,
1889 (Ed)

Edit: For right now I've replayed and asked Epsilon to wait and see if this is OK with the mods.

Whew, Ginger Ale says its Ok. We still have open borders.

The question is not just how much will the Great Library help us, it's also how much it would help our enemies to have it. You certainly don't want the tech leader grabbing the Great Library for themselves, along with several other wonders which you decide to ignore, and then running away to an insurmountable tech lead and winning the game. It's also about keeping things in balance. Personally, I do feel strongly that the Great Library is important for us to obtain, but I realise that I am just one voice amongst many. I hope I can convince at least some of you that in this case, going for just one wonder (for now) would actually be a sensible idea for us. The way I see it, this map is fairly spread-out, so we need not fear an attack for a decent amount of time yet.

Thus, we need to actually try to do something about our horrible GNP/production situation in these early stages, before we fall away and become one of the weakest civs in the world, just waiting to become a part of some other civ's territory. Building a massive amount of Axemen right now for an attack that will probably not come immediately is not what I see as sensible. Especially since the eventual attack will most likely come when the enemy has just got some new technological upgrade - perhaps Macemen, which would completely obsolete the point of building our Axemen in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we shouldn't continue to build up our military, I'm just saying that we should allow room for a few other things too, to make sure we don't become the most backward and weak civ in the world. ;)

I don't honestly think a team will want to wage war soon, as I think it killed two teams in the civIII mtdg.

I had an idea today (yeah, I do get them :p).
Isn't there a google function like MS Office?
If we set up an account there we could make a history document easily, and we could also keep track of all sorts of things. For example we could enter all foreign information we have to keep track of it without having to check the save.

Do you all think this idea is good?

@ Lord Parkin: Excellent post! It has given me pause. However I think that building a wonder to keep others from getting it is only worthwhile for Civ3 GL or UN. As far as wonders allowing our enemies to win the game; this game will end with a war, all PBEMs do, if the wonders are giving them a huge advantage the proper counter-strategy would be to attack to rob them of the initiative and force them to protect their huge investments. However the GL is probably one of the best wonders left (Considering wonders from later eras may not be around long enough to be worth the cost) but it is still out of our way, maybe the Pyramids would work out better.

Your points about or GNP and manufacturing being in sad shape is right on as is your warning about over reliance on axmen and the low prospects of mounting any invasion in our current state.

These discussions go well beyond the scope of a turn-by-turn thread so let’s move them to a new Long Term Strategy thread for more complete examination.

@ Dutch: I'd probably use it.

For the google docs thing, see if you can access this (http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dhtx2v2k_0f2ctm4) by signing on with our team name.

That's cool. Now what should we put there? Oh, I know lets start a thread!

@ Lord Parkin: Excellent post! It has given me pause. However I think that building a wonder to keep others from getting it is only worthwhile for Civ3 GL or UN. As far as wonders allowing our enemies to win the game; this game will end with a war, all PBEMs do, if the wonders are giving them a huge advantage the proper counter-strategy would be to attack to rob them of the initiative and force them to protect their huge investments. However the GL is probably one of the best wonders left (Considering wonders from later eras may not be around long enough to be worth the cost) but it is still out of our way, maybe the Pyramids would work out better.

Your points about or GNP and manufacturing being in sad shape is right on as is your warning about over reliance on axmen and the low prospects of mounting any invasion in our current state.

These discussions go well beyond the scope of a turn-by-turn thread so let’s move them to a new Long Term Strategy thread for more complete examination.Regarding the Pyramids, we'd never have the slightest chance of winning that one, since we don't have Stone. I also don't think that it would be as useful for us as the Great Library would (and the Great Library is cheaper, AND it can be rushed with marble which we have). So forget the Pyramids at least. ;)

Regarding the alliance thing against the tech leader, that's all well and good in theory. But I've played many a PBEM myself, and have found that in some cases if the tech leader is too far ahead then it's simply impossible for even a many-pronged alliance to take them out. Despite having numerical superiority, the tech leader is always one (or more!) upgrades ahead, combating Macemen with Grenadiers and smashing through Riflemen with Infantry. Numbers are useful, but superior technology is what truly decimates out on the battlefield.

I guess we're just two players with naturally different strategies, but I really do believe it would be sensible to consider the Great Library option seriously. I'm certainly no newbie to multiplayer myself, so this isn't just a mere whim. Of course, it won't be the end of the world if we don't grab that wonder when we can, but I feel that it would be a bit of a shame, a lost opportunity for us to enhance our power in this tough and cruel world.

why are we working the plains in wheelville instead of the lake? it would give us 1 more commerce.

(And I would also work the farm in Ploughland)

I wrote something in the docs about our cities, and about techs.

and a nice strategic overview, with chokepoints we might like to occupy in the future, and city sites.
[img=http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/5305/civ4screenshot0041co9.th.jpg] (http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0041co9.jpg)

why are we working the plains in wheelville instead of the lake? it would give us 1 more commerce.

(And I would also work the farm in Ploughland)


Both tiles are cottages that will grow to hamlets in 6. However in Wheelville I can switch forest to lake (-1 hammer +2 gold, 1 extra turn to build worker)

My two cents... getting the worker out sooner is more important than the 2 commerce per turn. ;)

750 BC

Settled Chowderton and all our cities are now connected.
Our economy is 152 – 7 per turn. We’ll get two trade routes next turn so I we almost break even if we drop science to 90%. I would like to keep at least 80 gold in the bank incase we need to upgrade a warrior in an emergency. So let’s think about that.

I’m also thinking that Great Library will be a good idea. I’d like to know how you all feel about making Literature our next tech. We’ll finish Alphabet in two turns so do we want to trade with our neighbors?

In the Loco screen shot: they are building a road toward the copper. I’d bet that is their only copper otherwise they would probably have built some other improvement for their new city.

Does this map have the Balanced Resources option on? If so, then it's definitely just the one source of copper. Even if it's not Balanced Resources, it's still extremely likely that that's the case (very rare that you get more than one source of copper nearby, especially since I'm guessing this was a moderated map).

Keeping gold in the bank for upgrades is a reasonable idea. For now we want to keep up our research though.

Glad you've come around on the Great Library. I agree on the suggestion for Literature next. :)

We've got 153 gold (in the screenshot), so we can research along at 100% for a while until we hit 80.

And we shouldn't trade alphabet to anyone in my opinion (unless we'll get a really important tech for it, and if we do, we should trade it to the other team the same turn, so we'll be the ones most benefitting from it.
By the way, could it be that Aloha has met all/more civs because they seem to be in the middle? And they started a newspaper, I don't think they would be doing that if they didn't know everyone.

(I should have editted this in my last post but the edit button didn't work :confused:)

Absolutely, if you have the monopoly on it then never trade Alphabet away without very good reason. (And even then, think twice.)

I’ve been looking for ways to speed up the Great Library, (please let me know if this project has the support of the team).

Sinsburge can rush the obelisk when pop grows to 3, apply the overflow toward a settler and then rush again to finish that (12 turns) That way Wheelville can get started on a Library right after it finishes worker. (A ordinary library with 2 scientists gives us an incredible 40% increase in research rate!)

The worker that just finished the road to Sinsburge will begin the road to Marble rather than work on Ploughland. Connecting Marble is the most time consuming aspect of this plan.

maybe get a time-table set up.
Techs, Buildings, workers.
BTW, if we could get monotheism with Judaism just after settling Marbletown, it would give the city instant culture (if we switch to no-state religion though)

maybe get a time-table set up.
Techs, Buildings, workers.
BTW, if we could get monotheism with Judaism just after settling Marbletown, it would give the city instant culture (if we switch to no-state religion though)

Good idea, that might help us find some more tweeks to speed things up, but Judaism has already been founded.

EDIT: For example, it looks now like we should just plan on settling next to the Marble, all the border expanding possibilities take too long.

This turn two new trade routes open, our man enters Loco's borders and a worker bigins the road to Marble.

Next turn our axeman will be in position at Barb city, our warrior will be healed and start looking for Aloha and we'll finish Alphabet, I may also rush the Obelisk in Sinsburg (after making sure pop will grow that turn.)

Definately pop rush the obelisk in Sinsburg next turn. Chowdertown should also pop rush its work boat once it grows.

It's 3140 years after the beautiful religion of Hinduism was founded in our capital. In these three millenia the Innovian people have been busy with inventions, innovations and technology. But today is a great day for our country. Our scientist have presented a new technology that will allow us to communicate better with other civilizations. There are even rumours that this technology will allow us to learn new technologies from these other civilizations.

This day shall be remembered by our people as the start of a new age, known as the classical age.
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/2375/civ4screenshot0042uq9.jpg

Our traders went directly to our neigbours.
This is what Chief Aloha had to offer:
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/4448/civ4screenshot0043ls6.jpg

And this is what that odd guy named King Kong had:
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/7557/civ4screenshot0044zm6.jpg

In other news:
The people in Sinsburg worked so hard on a monument called an obelisk that some of them died, however it is expected that the population will grow back fast.
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/196/civ4screenshot0045ye4.jpg

Everything in the other cities was just normal.
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2954/civ4screenshot0046bw8.jpg
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/4229/civ4screenshot0047ya7.jpg
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/2959/civ4screenshot0048hr8.jpg

And I received this pm from RobiD of Aloha

CFC Civ 4 MTDG

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just an informal approach.

I noticed you guys had alpha. So a couple of questions

1. Any interest in a hunting - mysticism trade?

2. If yes would you be interested in a more encompassing tech trading arrangement.

All the best
Robi D

I'd say take the deal, we might need spearmen sometime soon, and a scout wouldn't be that bad either. And it's not like mysticism is that important.

(And we could wish them luck with their attempt to build a wonder, either forge->engineer->pyramids, or the colossus.

I don't have a problem with Hunting-Mysticism, but if we get the GL our science rate may be much higher than theirs, at least for a while, so lets not mention any future deals right now.

(EDIT: after looking at the GNP graphs I see we may not get too far ahead of them in science, but they have many more possibilities to trade since they have met everyone so could such an agreement to far greater advantage than us.)

Looks like our Axe should take barb city quite easily. I'd like him to get the combat I promotion rather than city raider? Combat I opens very nice options later on.

We also get a new Axe next turn, could we have him go after the village on the West coast? It may look out of the way, but he'll be in the neighbor hood when we plant Marble city.

How about using the new worker in Wheelville to start a road to Barb city?

I'd rather like the worker produced in WheelVille to improve Chowdertowns terrain first.

I'm in favour of taking the deal. I'm hoping that we have the monopoly on Alphabet at the moment, in which case trading any techs not on the path to Alphabet is generally a good idea.
I'd like to hear a few more opinions before approaching them with a formal response. :)

Worker near Sinsburg starts road to Marble
Worker there finishes cottage.
Worker produced in Wheelvill has walked to Ploughland
Worker begins mine near Chowderton

NW warrior checks out the woods
Eastern warrior climbs hill
Southern warrior strolls along Loco's roads

Axeman kills a warrior defending Barb city and takes Combat I to heal. Has enough XP for another promotion and will easily take city next turn. Start thinking of names.

New Axeman heads NW to help defend Marble city or take tribal village.

No techs offered this turn. What is the final verdict on Mysticism for Hunting from Aloha? I see no harm in it.

Keep the name Polynesia.
Maybe give the axeman a name?

I used this site for four masculine Arabic Names. (http://www.behindthename.com/random/)

It gave: "Zaki Houssam Farouk Tamid"
It would be an easy way to name our units.

I gave our Axe the shock promotion (+25% vs. melee) and we took Polynesia (64 gold also). 3 turns of revolting celebrating ensued. I'd guess maintenance will be 3 gpt but we don't have to pay while it’s in anarchy. The worker in Ploughland has started a road to the city.

Our eastern warrior/explorer has already run into trouble. More barbarians have been spotted so they hunkered down in a forest and prepare to defend. I think they'll win, but healing is going to put them further behind schedule.

The cottage in Wheelville and Ploughland grow to hamlets next turn. We also get our great prophet to build the shrine (I think that gives us great people points too.)

Sinsburg will finish the settler very soon (especially if we rush) so I’ve had to put two workers on the marble road.

After Ploughland finishes this next Axe maybe we should build a temple so we can get more population or build one more axe to explore and bring our warrior home.

Wheelville will grow in 4 which will cause some unhappiness. we can solve that by rushing the library with 2-3 population and then assigning scientists to stop growth.

We've explored Loco's capitol and can see Palace, Stone Henge (with it's free obelisk), Buddhist temple and Monastery.

Our warrior will get 1 xp if we win, giving him a promotion, so he'll have to heal less.
The loco warrior should move into the city, and then move northwest IMO.
Definetly Shrine, it will allow us to run another 3 priests, and it gives 1 GPP. We could be running 4 priests resulting in 3*4+1=13. 13*2(philosophical)=26.
200/26= 8 turns!

Damn 26 GP points! Should we hold off a bit so we get a great scientist, I'm just not sure what to do with another prophet unless we hold him and have a golden age.

As for unit names: as Innovians shouldn't we name them after inventors, but since he's a warrior they should be tough inventors...tough Arab inventors, who wants to suggest something?

We don't have masonry yet, so I think we could use him to lightbulb for example Code of Laws.
I'll search the forums for it.

edit: http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/gp_tech_pref.php

Red= we can lightbulb it
lime=we've got it
orange=need other techs first

Meditation
Polytheism
Priesthood
Monotheism
Theology
Divine Right
Mysticism
Code of Laws
Civil Service
Monarchy
Literature we'll have it once we get our 2nd prophet
Music
Writing
Philosophy
Printing Press
Drama
Alphabet
Paper
Education
Liberalism
Calendar
Masonry
Animal Husbandry
Construction
Future Tech

So we'll basically need to get meditation from Loco in 7 turns to be able to lightbulb CoL?

Or even better, get meditation from Loco, research CoL ourselves and lighbulb civil service?

I don't know if we'll be able to lightbulb it totally. There's a formula for the amount of beakers a GP will give somewhere on the forums.

Ideally you want to force the Great Person to get the most expensive tech possible, so that they're used most efficiently. So yeah, get Meditation from some source (though don't tell them the reason behind why we want it - they don't need to know ;) ). I agree with not trading away any of the techs on the line to Alphabet (and especially not Alphabet). Pretty much anything else should be on the table though, and as long as the trades are fairly even in beakers then I think we should usually accept them. (Still a good idea to check here first though.) :)

I don't know if we'll be able to lightbulb it totally. There's a formula for the amount of beakers a GP will give somewhere on the forums.


There's something in the Civ 4 war accademy, but it doesn't look right anyway I think it's two patches old. I've been meaning to check it in world builder but have not done so yet.

I'm thinking that I might do it in the morning.

One thing that influences it is difficulty as I recall, another thing is population?

I set up a quick test, emperor difficulty and a single pop 1 city with all our current techs. The great prophet would give Meditation, Preisthood, Code of Law (costs 540) or would give 1002 towards Civil Service (cost 1248).

So we would get most out of our man if we spend him on Civil Service. Researching CoL would take about 9 turns, but by then our science rate will be much higher so I can't really say.

I don't think population matters for lightbulbing, it should be just difficulty.

Holding GPs to lightbulb later is a good strategy, unless you can lightbulb something you really need right now.

So we're going to trade for meditation, research priesthood and CoL, and then lightbulb CS?

Holding GPs to lightbulb later is a good strategy, unless you can lightbulb something you really need right now.
Why is that? AFAIK lightbulbing gives the same amount of beakers thorughout the entire game, so it will just be worth less and less if you wait until later with the lightbulbing (unless of course you're researching a tech which costs less than what the GP will give but that's not the case for CS).

Didn't say we should wait after CS... I meant early in the game when techs cost less than a GP is worth. ;)

Well, is CS that important? It could be if we can get Aloha (with metal casting) into a deal to get both of us macemen.

We'll be able to chain farm and most importantly it will allow bureaucracy, which can be very powerful at this point in the game.