View Full Version : OSG 12 - All Your Rocks are Belong to Us!


Liquidated
Nov 09, 2006, 03:13 AM
OSG 12 - All Your Rocks are Belong to Us!

It has come to the attention of our great Monolith Mauna Loa that ancient glyphs recorded by our ancestors untold ages ago speak of a Greater Glory where our people cast across the Void.

Also, the glyphs speak of ancient enemies that live in the Void which exhibit a despicable Softness unimagined, enemies that exist only for the moment and are dust in a fraction of a cycle. The Glyphs warn of a great war with these Void races where their seething, boiling masses were able to build upon unknowable synergy to defeat our Ancestors.

In a flurry activity never before recorded by even the most eldest of Mountain Ranges, Mauna Loa has dictated we spread our seed to it's rightful place in the stars and has enacted The Great Flow.

Since The Great Flow is only sustainable for less than an eon, we are charged with finding stars similar to our own to spread our seed. When the Enemies of the Void appear, know that their existence is intolerable but their tricks of old must be incorporated by assimilation.

Variant Overview

Race: Silly
Map: Medium
Other Races: Five
Difficulty:Hard

The rocks have embarked upon The Great Flow, as close to the softness of the Void they will ever see.

Hard Cap level 10 techs in all fields with the exception of propulsion, to ensure an upgraded engine and proper range tech. Once level 10 is reached(or next tech is over level 10), all research must stop in that field. When the last field is researched it is the duty of all players to ensure no BC goes into research to the best of their ability.

All other tech must be gained from capture of enemy Factories or sussed from them by espionage.


No trades, no diplomacy at all. All votes we abstain. (update: because the way diplomacy mechanics work in moo, a single minimum bc trade may be maintained with each race for galactic Vote reasons)

Expand naturally with voluntary limits of expansion should the map prove too favorable.

No glassing of planets with more than 50 factories. Avoid attacking races with no tech we need unless no other option.

Victory is assimilation of all other races.

Dath
Zed
Stup
Liq
Olorin
Str00ld3 (if interested)

Cheers!
-Liq

StuporMan
Nov 09, 2006, 06:02 AM
I have picked up the save from RB, and will take a look at it. I do not expect to get a turnset in until this weekend, but I have a little time tonight so we shall see.

Liq, Thanks for the minimal trade allowance. We might be able to survive the first few votes now.

StuporMan

dathon78
Nov 09, 2006, 08:30 AM
If there are no objections, I could get this thing kicked off either today or tomorrow, but I'm also perfectly willing to wait :)

dathon

StuporMan
Nov 09, 2006, 02:49 PM
I am willing to step aside and let dathon play. Next week will likely be better for me to play anyway. This week I have a Numerical Analysis homework to complete and a Test in same to study for. Since Zed stepped aside for me I guess we can go :

Dath
Zed
Stup
Liq
Olorin
Str00ld3

if nobody seriously objects.

Stuporman

OlorinStormcrow
Nov 09, 2006, 03:15 PM
Checking in.

I have no objections to any of the proposed roster changes, since they don't affect me anyway.

I will be able to play when my turn comes up, because I am in the process of printing out my revised proposals now. Next step is to schedule my oral exams :crazyeye:

The next few weeks will be less crazy, without the writing to do, and I'll need something to take my mind off prepping for the orals every once in awhile.

Liquidated
Nov 09, 2006, 11:24 PM
the player order was random... go for it dath!

all I recall of the map was a non corner start and a ton of reds....

Dath
Zed
Stup
Liq
Olorin
Str00ld3 (if interested)

roster is subject to change if delays don;t line up properly.:D

Cheers!
-Liq

dathon78
Nov 10, 2006, 07:31 AM
Ok, got it, will post later this afternoon, probably.

dathon

Str00dl3
Nov 10, 2006, 08:11 AM
You can most certainly count me in..

Im looking forward to seeing how my game play differs to others more experienced.. Am looking forward to learning more of the dynamics of the game, and the different strategies used by different people..


"You biological and technological distinctivness will be added to our own"

Resistence is futile...

dathon78
Nov 10, 2006, 01:28 PM
Well, I turned out to be a little busier than I anticipated this afternoon, so sorry, no roleplay writing this time :rolleyes:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/52773/osg12_begin_map.jpg

Our "Soft" opponents are the Humans, Psilons, Alkari, Bulrathi, and Darlok. The inital map draw seems to favor us, with a large chunk to the SW that we can expand in, and the other AI likely to be cramped. I sent the col ship to Draconis (obviously) first turn, and found a nice size 70 Ocean. Now, normally I'm not a fan of building col ships too soon, but our scouting found a VERY nice size 95 Terran (circled in Blue). I also found a settle Human world just North of it. Their homeworld is probably the one circled in white, though it might be the one to the NE of it. Cryslon built more factories than its population could work very quickly, of course, so I burned 6 turns on a ship. It's even with Draconis now, should arrive in 3-4 turns. The other yellow flag is a recently grabbed Psilon world; both they and the birds have their homeworld in the greed circle. I've been seeing some Psilon scouts at yellow circle S of the Psilon colony. The orange/pink circle is Orion.

On the tech front, I opened Construction (IIT9, only choice of course), IT+10 (again, only choice, of course), and Propulsion. I chose Range 4 over range 5, since all 5 would give us is the Western cluster, which can be reached from the Tundra next to the size 95 world. That turn out to be weed if we can't hold that planet, so the next leader might want to think about some guns there. I've got a popgun and medium laser ship designed, but you're the boss :king: IT +10 is almost in, I decided to grab it alongside the col ship, but in retrospect, I probably should have been beelining Range 4.

Here's the save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/52773/osg12_2320.zip)

Liquidated
Nov 10, 2006, 09:14 PM
nice the psilon planet is poor, potential spud material there.

A rich radiated is great as we can take our sweet time getting to that gem. Also as mentioned, lots of room to expand to the SW making sure the humans don;t slip in by the NW.

range 5 is one of the most important techs, good to get that out of the way, only other question is if we get real engines.

Nice turn dath

Cheers!
-Liq

Zed-F
Nov 12, 2006, 09:10 AM
I'm not sure when we are planning to drop from 20 turns per player to 10 turns per player, but I'll assume not yet.

Inherited Turn: Notice that we are building factories on Cryslon, currently having 130, but only have 52 pop. Start a new colony ship rather than overbuild factories. Pull most of the funding from IIT+10 and reallocate to Range 4.

2321: IIT+10 comes in, we choose IIT+20 next. Redirect remaining planetology funding to IIT 9. Start working on terraforming Cryslon at a trickle while we continue to build a colship.

2324: Colonize Dunatis. Contact the 5PE Honorable Humans -- they have gotten off to a fast start! Impossibly fast and evidence that the AI cheats when it comes to colship landings, IMHO. Establish a minimal trade agreement. Transport 16M from Draconis to Dunatis.

2325: Build a colship and send it to Tundra 25 Gion on the human frontier. It's a crap world but opens up better planets to the west. Plus I don't want to have to worry about humans getting Tundra bases and poaching it early.

2326: Chase away a Psilon colship at Yarrow.
2327: Chase away a human colship at Dunatis.

2331: Settle Gion. Build a colship and send it to... Radiated Rich Stalaz I guess. The planets I'd prefer to send it to are all 4 parsecs away. Propulsion is at 3%.

2332: Now Range 4 comes in, oh well. Pick nuclear engines next as it's cheap and useful for expansion. Readjust research to get IIT9 quicker and start on Terraforming +20.

2333: Alkari scout turned back at Nyarl, an asteroid system NE of Stalaz. I guess the Alkari are N of Psilons and E of Humans. Or else they have an early alliance going on.

2336: Scout Radiated Rich Dolz in the west. It's at range 5 so we'll have to get it later.

2337: Colonize Stalaz. Chase away scouts and colships from lots of places, including a Darlok colship that has no business anywhere near our space other than by early alliance. I also suspect the Psilons and Alkari are allied as I've seen their ships both north and south of the Psilons now.

2339: Colonize Romulas. Gain contact with the 2PE Honorable Psilons, establish a minimal trade agreement. Discover Zoctan, an arid Artifacts world, in the far west, next to the Human empire. It will be very difficult to get there before they do. We are really starting to spread our influence all over the map now though. Construction at 1%. Send a colship along with a bunch of scouts to Yarrow, they can explore further eastward from there.

2340: Nothing much, a new colship is due to be built at Cryslon right away. The next couple colships should probably head toward Arid 65 Volantis to the west and Inferno 25 Mu Delphi to the east, to open up further colonization opportunities.

The save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=142273&stc=1&d=1163344239

Liquidated
Nov 12, 2006, 08:45 PM
seems first 3 or 4 people taking 20 turns is about right on a medium map. One of the reasons I placed myself as 4th btw.

Seems packed start for the other races.:eek:

Cheers!
-Liq

Str00dl3
Nov 13, 2006, 12:57 PM
With this many alliances and the humans having such a good start and possible access to an artifact its going to be hard to assimilate anything to the east without starting a galactic war and we will be shooting peas at the humans fleet..

Also lacking any decent mineral planets and no way of getting a decent ground assault tech other then theft or assimilation i see no way to conquer other then early assaults on the competition or mass planet colonization early in the game..

Computer tech 10 will make stealing tech from more advanced races almost if not impossible..

Have a awfull feeling about this variant..

zakalwe
Nov 13, 2006, 02:21 PM
Lurking in the shadows.

Would be nice to see a win in this series, but it seems like you do have a knack of setting up hard variants :) I still play some MOO from time to time, but have never ever tried any sort of early aggression. I frankly have no idea how to make that work, so it will be very interesting to see if/how you pull this off. I don't know much about the effects and mechanics of biowarfare, but could death spores be applicable here? Do the silicoids have an easier time of recolonizing spored planets?

OlorinStormcrow
Nov 13, 2006, 03:12 PM
I don't know if the Silicoids have any benefits in terms of recolonizing spored planets. In terms of our variant, we wouldn't want to use spores to kill off a planet and then use a colony ship. Even though that would allow us to get the factories left over, we wouldn't have a shot at getting any tech from it.

On the other hand, I could see some use in using bioweapons to knock out the majority of the population, and then sending in the ground troops. Bioweapons would work better than bombs because they leave the factories intact, and allow us to gain the same amount of tech, but with fewer troops needed.

The danger of using the bioweapons is that they hurt relations with every AI. If we employ them too early, we could end up facing a Final War that we aren't equipped to handle. I think that the big thing we've learned from the previous several OSG's is the importance of diplomacy, especially the trade agreements. Without some way of improving our relations with the AIs, it's too easy to lose due to an early vote. I think that any of our recent losses would have ended up as wins if there had been an option to turn off the voting process.

zakalwe
Nov 13, 2006, 04:11 PM
On the other hand, I could see some use in using bioweapons to knock out the majority of the population, and then sending in the ground troops.

Yes, that makes sense. Ground troops will be a scarce resource playing as the silicoids.

I think that any of our recent losses would have ended up as wins if there had been an option to turn off the voting process.

Absolutely. And I certainly didn't mean to imply that you have lost your recent games due to poor play. One idea is to play with only a single opponent - final war doesn't make that much of a difference then.

Str00dl3
Nov 13, 2006, 06:21 PM
Without glassing planets the only early aggression you can make is mass trooping planets. This variant restricts our tech so the longer the game lasts the less a chance of a win.

To be honest.. i dont see this being a possible win scenario..

You have the darloks who restrict any real possible chance of tech theft, you have the heads who will out tech us if left unchecked and the bulraths just wont be a option on ground invasion without the use of bio weapons, which will start an all out war directed at us..

If we step in to the east with guns blazing we will have more enemys then you can poke a stick and the option to open a basic trade with races for the vote balance will in the long run cost us votes when we do begin our invasions and break the aggreements..

Without any real factory tech we will never keep up the fight, and without any ground troop tech we will be throwing troops to there death at 3 to 1 odds..

The borg have unmatched strength and unmatched technology..

We will have the numbers but no real means to use them..

My opinion is to focus all assualts and tech theft towards the humans whom seem to have a solitary corner of the galaxy, without any alliance they shouldnt stir up to much annimosity from the other races..

Were gonna get owned if anyone makes it to fusion rifle and powered armour..

Zed-F
Nov 13, 2006, 07:16 PM
Chill, dude. ;) Check what happened the last time we did early war, as the Mrrshan. We wiped the galaxy, under a harder variant than this one.

Truth to tell, since our expansion is so far pretty much uncontested, I think this one's going to be pretty easy. Not quite 'routine', but not that tough either.

StuporMan
Nov 14, 2006, 05:22 PM
Inherited: Look around, everything seems to be in order.
2341: Darloks arrive at Yarrow. They have some sort of weapon technology on one of their ships. We will have to assimilate that later, for now our scout must retreat. Meet Darloks, ask for minimum trade and they refuse. Looks like we have a first target. Oh wait, they are allied with the brains. (The brains also are allied with the Bulrathi).
2342: Send Col ship to the west Voltanis.
2343: Discover Rha in the north, it is yet untaken, tundra 40, 6 parsecs from our nearest star (long range col ship anyone?).
2345: IIT9 falls, duralloy only choice. Another Col ship build on Cryslon (I will keep crankin' em out until we have no more room to expand. Each one is worth 2 free population points, which is not a small deal for us rocks. We may not be able to push pop to all colonies immediately with how fast we are expanding, though.
2347: Voltanis founded. Human scout seen above the empty star of Tauri (7 parsecs from nearest human world by my estimation). Bumping up research on propulsion accordingly.
2348: Vox founded. Psilon alliance changed, Psilon troops inbound to Darlok colony of Yarrow.
2349: Mu Delphi founded. Humans want Non-Agression pact. They balk at the assimilation clause, so we politely decline. Darloks defend invasion at Yarrow. I take this opportunity to get a minimal trade in.
2352: Xendalla Arid 70 discovered in the far south. Nuclear engines at 4%.
2353: Scout Yarrow to confirm what the map was saying, the Darloks have built 0 factories the whole time they have owned it.
2355: Nuke Engines fall, choose Range 6 (Inert and 5 were available). Reticuli founded.
2357: Humans want Non agression pact, again they refuse the assimilation clause. Again we decline.
2358: Cygni founded.
2359: Bootis is discovered (far southeast green) No Planet. Looks like we will not get the ENTIRE southern portion of the map.
2360: Last colship made for planets in range (Vulcan poor 70), Cryslon on research and +1 pop. We are about halfway to range 6 which should let us colonize the rest of the 4-5 planets remaining. I just love how fast you can expand as the Rocks. We may want to consider running +1 pop on our more developed worlds to get them fully running and to help build up our new colonies. We may also want to get a fleet going as soon as range 6 comes in.

It looks like we will have several options for first opponents. My vote right now goes to the humans. They are isolated right now (only contact with us AFAIK) and are unable to exploit their racial benefits (though they are the tech leaders). The Brains are another good choice (their colonies are located far from one another and we will be able to rake the tech in from a captured colony, but they have been in and out of alliances all game. The Darloks look fairly weak, so we could probably take them down fairly easily, but we will not get much back in return.

StuporMan

Zed-F
Nov 14, 2006, 05:43 PM
We have 13 systems now, and are about to colonize 2 more. After range 6 comes in, there are at least 4 more stars we can grab, not counting unscouted systems (2 in the SW that no-one else can get to, 1 in the SE that we'd need an ER colship to reach, 1 in the NW on the other side of the humans that we might also nab with an ER colship, and possibly some in the NE in Alkari/Bulrathi territory.) Ideally we should pre-build a few colony ships so that when we are done range 6, we can send out the first wave right away.

Nobody else has more than 5 systems. The humans could maybe poach one of the ones we need range 6 for if they beat us to them, but they've left them alone for the last 20 turns. (Maybe they don't have range 5.) Otherwise I think everything that can be colonized by everyone other than us, has been.

Someone was saying something about this being a hard game? :lol:

Str00dl3
Nov 15, 2006, 12:11 AM
Im not going to go on about my previous attempts of this variant and the similarities towards the beggining of this scene but be forwarned of the importance of advanced technology, xenophobes damn troubled minds and the strengh of alliances..

I have also found that the cost towards resources by stealing tech is not worth the effort in the long run.

Long live the borg, and shake all those who appose our assimilation!!

p.s: I have yet to win on different and more favourable maps... :(

Str00dl3
Nov 15, 2006, 12:18 AM
Ohh and that was a great turn Stup..

Have to agree on the Humans as a very viable option for assimilation due to there location, and would also suggest mass fleet movements at timed arrivals for a blockade assault when the time is right. With only a hand full of planets this shouldnt be to difficult, assuming we aquire that art to the west to allow for range of all there planets.

Liquidated
Nov 15, 2006, 02:35 AM
bah had free time for this all week but have to hit work soon...

oh well expect turns in 24 to 36 hours... might be the last round of 20 turns but not until our fleet's weapon is decided.
Range 6 nuke engines and inertial stabs all hiding in our limited tree? We are blessed.

Pray for a viable missle and/or npg's.

Cheers!
-Liq

Zed-F
Nov 17, 2006, 07:12 AM
Hey, liq! How's your turns coming? Do you need a skip?

Str00dl3
Nov 17, 2006, 02:49 PM
After about 3 attempts at same variant different map, i have managed to come out of it victorious.. The deciding factor seemed to have been x-velocity missiles and the fact that the other races lagged behind in engine techs helping to overtake there forces enroute to my planets.

I have run into a few possible snags in the settings that may come up later in the game..

When a race has no technology new to us and there planets are valuable for either there locations or enviro/resource or they are an ongoing aggressor is it ok to glass regardless of factory/population totals..

The variant states no diplomacy besides basic trade, when at war with more then one race is it ok to accept peace offers from the enemy?..

That seems to be about the only problem i ran into during my games..

Str00dl3
Nov 17, 2006, 02:51 PM
Ohh and only planet left after the game ended that wasnt colonized.. Orion..

Ill tell you what... When your tech is this low, that spider ship thingy absolutely annihilated 100+ huge ship armadas.. Couldnt believe it!!!

Liquidated
Nov 17, 2006, 11:32 PM
ug work is brutal, just got home at uh almost 10 pm :sad:

let me eat something and stare blankly at the wall for a bit then I'll play these overdue turns.. sorry!

preturn: ok well I see The rocks are spreading like a virus, good good. the hot spots I see are the artifact in the NW near humans and the tundra rha in the NE that seems isolated maybe.. though those yellows might hold a homeworld. Looks like a vote will never be an issue nor will being friendly with anyone as we'll be getting "you have too many planets" spam soon enough.

In response I set up for 3x colony 2 ships to be built in 7 turns one at the rich in the ne and then 2 more at the core. need 2 for the artifact world since need to colonize the radiated rich to get in range.. both are a prize so no big deal. I set the remaining work on the rich to grow population since never is really a good time to set it on research ever. research is stressed wherever it can be.

[1]2361 ADnada

[2]2362 ADnada

[3]2363 AD vulcan the poor is colonized and I send 6 pop from volantis to seed it... ug well it's in the rear so safe to let that spud remain a laggard. Send a scout over to the northern red in the sw now that vulcan puts it at 6 parsecs distance. no whammy no whammy! how much you wanna bet it's nothing or orion?

[4]2364 AD xendalla is colonized (the green to the south of home) and I reaffirm that orion is the green star in center... I fed it another scout to make sure the guardian was appeased.
Vote came in and humans managed to gain 8 of 19 votes, we only had 4 which is to be expected. 13th plaent colonized though,

Propulsion is 5%!!!! 7 turns for 3x colonies sounds like I made a nice balance.

[5]2365 AD gion hits max factories(opps?), I spam eco to fill up the population, it's 32/35 so not a big deal.

[6]2366 AD one colony is built since Homes population was growing, but no range tech yet. That's fine as it can move toward the radiated rich. The red 6 pars from vulcan turns out to be a toxic 10 by the name of arietis. Absolutly no rush to colonize the back water planets... the population can best be sent elsewhere.

[7]2367 AD big turn. propulsion 6 comes in *happy* as well as 2x more colonys! only techs level 10 and lower are inertials and range 5, I place coins into inertial. sublight was there btw but that's out of our tech limit unless sg warrents since it speeds up population.

goin and romulus make max population yay!!! goin is full up pop and factories now.

contact with the birds is made and a minimal trade set up. they own one planet and are crammed in between the darloks and psilons.

psilons chased our scout off the empty system in the middle south of map with an armed colony ship, no big loss.
research is set 50% to weapons to see what's out there and 50% to planetology to nab +20.

send colony from rich to rha in the far ne...
the other two colonies are heading towards goin to make a dash for the artifct/rich. second place is just nabbing the radiated rich so win win.

The red planet in the far far sw is now in range so send a scout there to spy it out.

At least 2 more plaents are easily colonizable in the sw but those can wait, rather spend the effort on building infrastructure.


[8]2368 AD gatling laser only tech avil in weapons, meaning no hyper V rockets but npgs are still up for a shot. We need weapons sooner rather than later so keep 50% research into weapons.

[9]2369 AD 4 turns til colony hits artifact, lets see if we make it. staltz the rich hits max population yay!!! start on another colony since seems lots of room in the NE. (boggle!)

[10]2370 ADrha is colonized and I find the bullrathi homeworld.... rha places us in contact with the bulls and I set up a 35 bc trade, the lowest one. They own a mere 2 planets.

Good news is the purple star ne of rha holds 25 inferno rich planet and blocked the northward expansion of the bulls, I place staltz on a 4 turn colony and leave it building up factories with the rest. I strip dunatis of 28 population for rha + company. then set dunatis on 100% eco to grow the pop back.

[11]2371 AD omg spica is an 80 jungle planet, that's our swmost red and it's alllll ours. I'll let next person make those colonies as I concentrae on the NE.

[12]2372 ADDolz the radiated rich (size 30!) is colonized yay so I'll fill that planet to max+ from goin and volantis with over flow going to artifact. population will be finalized by the end of my turns so no stress.

[13]2373 AD wow the planet in the ne is a terran fertile 130 population... good thing rich just built a colony!!! 7 turns to reach and 3 turns on another colony from staltz to colonize that rich. I give the chance to colonize the terran at 40% to be honest. too close to too many planet hungrey races

oh and zoctan the artifact planet just got colonized - by us - lol.

[14]2374 AD snore

[15]2375 AD another vote is held this time 22 total votes with rocks having 6, humans had 6 votes as well and everyone else abstained. That's the last vote we'll need to worry about.

[16]2376 AD staltz makes another colony and I send it off to the rich in the NE, Since it's now max population and factories I'll have it pop out warships when weapons comes in. looks like the bulls have a colony sent to either the inferno or the terran. most likely the terran.

[17]2377 AD gatling lasers comes in and our last weapon techs are for all to see.
hyperX
Fusion bombs
ion cannon

all 3 are very useful but of them, hyper X first and foremost. and hyper X it is. rather ions and hyper than npgs alone and fusion bombs are a relief. The damage this group of maniacs can dole out with missles though borders on the comical.

popgun is a small with nuke engines, +1 manuver for the defense and the almighty laser!!!!! a whopping 12 BC, 0 more than the warp 1 popgun, what a deal!!! could fit shields one but the added cost of 4 bc isn;t warrented. er it's called a minnow because for some reason the game wouldn;t let me change the name... too tired to figure out why.

[18]2378 AD nada - honest.

[19]2379 ADok well we beat the bulls to the terran but that colony is due next turn. you know damned well the bull is gonna scare off our scout and it's just gonna send frothing bear population over. I'll have a few turns to build up a fleet of popguns to damage the bull pop a bit I guess.

[20]2380 ADScore!!!!!! the bullrathi colony ship was unarmed so it fled from our scout lololololol.

our 18th planet of primordius (inferno rich 25) was colonized as well for the final NE planet. Next turn 28 colonistds land at rha and can be shuttled off to both of the other planets in the NE. Staltz has been pumping out minnows at 17 a turn which are auto sent to rha.. they can make sure we hold onto the NE holdings.

The SW has 3 planets left to colonize those I skipped them my turn to focus on grabbing the NE and NW. The NW is ancorhed by the rich which is off to a roaring start. the NE is pinned by rha which is getting a stream of minnows from staltz. Home and a few other planets are max fac/pop try not to strip them, for now they are pumping the research.

planetology (+20!) is 14% and weapons is cooking along.. after hyperx we can leave the world of weapons for a good long while to focus on other areas. I had to see what the weapons tree held in store for us.

Work is just killing me with - oh god I stopped counting at 14 hours just today - so sorry no screens, just too tired. getting a screenshot is tons more complicated with dosbox than mere civ4+fraps. Please excuse any rambling I posted!

I will assume 20 turns next up to shore up our holdings and decide on a likely 'host'. If ten turns seems warrented then by all means stop at 10 though! looks like this game will be over before I get the game again to be honest.

runaway brains of osg11 got nothing on the runaway rocks of osg12!

Cheers!
-Liq'd

Zed-F
Nov 18, 2006, 02:49 AM
Sounds like some productive turns, Liq. :)

Next up, Olorin!

OlorinStormcrow
Nov 18, 2006, 01:30 PM
I'll try to play today, and post either tonight or tomorrow morning.

Liquidated
Nov 18, 2006, 06:30 PM
sigh, I still cannot get a screen shot of dos box.. print screen isn;t working nor fraps, no idea!

anyway I failed to notice that the purple star NW of the humans is now only 7 parsecs away so it can be scouted... the chance of us colonizing it would require a long range colony or us stealing a range 7 so no biggie.

good chance it's an empty system anyway.

oh and it seems the artifact was only 6 parsecs away after colonizing one of the systems that had a ship inbound start of my turn. oh well we wanted the rich as much if not more than the artifact and no delay in setting up both.

Cheers!
-Liq

OlorinStormcrow
Nov 18, 2006, 06:48 PM
I've already sent a scout to the purple behind the Humans. Still puttering about on my first turn tweaking things and making plans.

Liquidated
Nov 18, 2006, 06:58 PM
the rocks are a very different race simply because it's like having a kid allergic to sugar alone in a candy store all night.

Yes look at all those lovely planets around ooo ahhh good luck getting the population to fill them! One thing I really appreciate though is that the ability to ignore pollution extends to when you want to force grow population... if sim tex hadn;t tested it, imagine having to clear all the pollution first!

Cheers!
-Liq

OlorinStormcrow
Nov 19, 2006, 05:38 AM
Here's the map:
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k186/OlorinStormcrow/map2400.jpg

2380: Rearranged some sliders, sent a scout to the purple behind the Humans, and shuffled some pop around. Dialed back the Planetology spending, reducing to 13% from 14 to open computers. I put 2 clicks into spies for all races, I want to peek at what they have to decide who our first target will be. Draconis and Cryslon set to build colony ships.

2381: IT+20 arrives, IT+30 only choice...it's level 14 so I close out Planetology tech. Only choice for comps is ECM1. I move some of the tech into Constr. and FF to get those going. Tech spending takes a hit as terraforming projects take up much of the empire's production.

2382: Shuffle production as Terraforming finishes on some worlds. Some back to tech, some to build factories for new max. Stalaz is back to making popguns.

2383: Spies penetrate the Human Empire.
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k186/OlorinStormcrow/Humanstech2383.jpg

Humans: No hostile techs, only range 4 available. Practically this means that Dunatis, Terran 115 is the only world that the Humans can land on of ours. I send a few more popguns there, and start building a base.

2384: ECM1 is found, RC3 is only choice (our last computer tech). We are really going to need to steal some battle computers.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k186/OlorinStormcrow/Darlocktech2384.jpg

Darlock spy penetration. They have Range 6, no hostile techs, and Fusion bombs. The Humans look like a more tempting target. Romulas is most vulnerable to Darlock attack--only 3 parsecs and Minimal. Since it's got max factories for its current pop, a defense base is started. Darlocks also have range to Cryslon and Draconis, but I don't expect them to attack when their only fuel base is Yarrow, and it doesn't have any bases yet.

2385: Spot a scary looking Human fleet near Dunatis. I push up spending on bases there.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k186/OlorinStormcrow/bulrathitech2385.jpg

Bulrathi: They have Range 5, Barren, but no weapons or engines. They cannot land on Primordius or Rha, so Lyae is the only worry. I reinforce it with most of the popguns from Rha.

I think that the Humans are our best bet for first target. Take them out before they make contact and diplomatic ties (Buls are allied with Brains). They also have BC2 and 3, which we need, and have just gotten Warp3 engines. We can also pick up Hand Lasers and Pellet Guns, which will come in handy against everyone else. We will need to wait for Hyper-X to come in to be able to start building an offensive fleet. Our popguns won't scratch their bases, but Hyper-X boats will do decent damage. Add in Ion Cannons or stolen pellet guns, and we should be able to handle their fleet as well.

2386: Colony ship finished, sent to Toxic Arietis. Cryslon will finish Colony ship for the final planet (Jungle in SW corner in 2 years). Spies penetrate both the Alkari and Psilons.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k186/OlorinStormcrow/alkaritech2386.jpg

Alkari: They are lacking in comps and weapons, but those Battle Suits are a prime target. Too bad our spies can't steal that Tech Level 11 gem. Altair is 6 parsecs from our nearest colony, and they only have range 5. I go ahead and assign our spies to attempt to steal from them. That scanner would come in handy to see any agression coming our way.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k186/OlorinStormcrow/psilontech2386.jpg

Psilon: Typical brainiacs, although they don't have as much computer tech as I expected. They also have Hand Lasers + Duralloy + PDS, so ground assaults will be messy until we catch up a little.

Looking at all the races, I still think that Humans should be our first target. They are isolated, so we won't have other races trying to poach our new aquisitions. The rest of the races have a very limited selection of non-hostile planets of ours to target, which means they are just as likely to attack each other (esp. the Darlocks). The Humans are going to attack us no matter what, because they have no other options. They also have some nice tech for us to absorb, that will help with the rest of the races. BCs, IS, Sub-Lights, Hand Lasers and NPGs will all help us put together a better fleet.

My plan is to wait for the Hyper-X (2% now) and Duralloy - will push some of the weapon tech there after Hyper-X come in. Then start putting together a fleet of Hyper-X boats to take on the Humans. I really hope we can hit them before they get planetary shields. In the meantime, I am trying to get all of our colonies stood up, and build defenses at the habitable worlds along our borders.

2387: Next turn

2388: Colony ship built and sent to Jungle SW. Herculis founded. Pop sent from Vox and Volantis, can be redistributed to the new colonies when they are founded.

2389: next turn

2390: next turn

2391: Hyper-X arrive. Ion Cannons next. I debated on the Fusion bombs, but they aren't very effective until engines and weapons are upgraded to a point where they fit in a small, fast bomber. Ion cannons will help us take on the other fleets. Bulrathi don't like how big we've grown.

2392: Toxic Arietis founded. Will shuffle pop from Herculis when they arrive next turn.

2393: The purple star behind the Human Empire is a no planets system. Ouch! We draw the mineral depletion event, and it hits Stalaz. A radiated rich turns into a radiated poor.

2394: Spica (Jungle SW) founded. Pop sent from Herculis. Duralloy armor comes in, Construction research is now closed. Split budget between weapons, comps and force fields. Design two missile boats. Production of Guppies is begun at several places, and Cryslon works on Flounders (main function is to bring along the battle scanner, but also meant for finishing off any leftovers of enemy fleets after the missile barrage).

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k186/OlorinStormcrow/fleetspecs2394.jpg

2395: FF2 comes in. FF3 is only choice--no PDS :wallbash: Minimal spending continued in FF, as there are many ways to steal/acquire FF3. RC3 is into %.

2396: RC3 comes in. Computer tech is now closed. Focus now on weapons. Bears have a fleet inbound to Primordius (or maybe Lyae, can't tell when they move so slow...) They'll meet over 100 Minnows and a missile base when they arrive.

2397: Never mind, the Bears are actually going to Rha. Fleet redirected. Factories are popping up all over the empire.

2398: Rha should have a base up in time, along with lots of Minnows.

2399: Battle! :ar15: Bulrathis vs. 128 Minnows and 1 missile base. We lost 19 Minnows, no survivors for the Bulrathi.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k186/OlorinStormcrow/bulrathifleetrha2399.jpg

2400: Scout probes Human Phantos. 75 pop and 14 bases. Vote: We have 11 of 28 votes giving us over 1/3. The Humans and Psilons both call to express their reluctance to be assimilated.

Wrap-up: I took Dunatis off factories. This leaves 35 pop unemployed to use for ground assaults on the Humans. There is already a respectable fleet staged at Dunatis. Kailis is probably the best target--it's closest and has only 9 bases, but scouts will hit the other Human colonies next turn to probe their defenses.

The Bulrathi are down to a tiny fleet. However, attacking them is probably not wise. One snag is that they don't have any useful techs to acquire, then there's the ground fighting against Giant Bears. The three colonies of ours near Bulrathi space haven't matured yet, so they're not the best places to tap for vast amounts of troops. And if we did wrest one of their worlds from them, the Brains would undoubtedly jump in to try to take it for themselves. At this point, I don't think we can compete with the Brain fleet. I still favor taking the Humans out. We'll get a good amount of useful tech from it, and we don't have to worry about the other races jumping all over our new acquisitions.

Once we have a better fleet to back us up, I'd love to take one of the Bulrathi worlds...then let the Psilons take it from us...and then take it back from them before they get any bases built. If enough factories survive the various invasions, we could wind up acquiring some nice Brainiac tech without having to face their missile bases.

Force fields: I have a minimal investment in FF3 research. We could skip that and just pick it up from our Human campaign instead.

Once we have finished researching weapons, we'll have an interesting situation where we can focus 100% of our production on our war machine...no pollution to clean up, no research to do :eek:
I'd recommend setting up some of the larger, more hospitable worlds as troop centers. Put them on 100% eco spending, and shuttle troops off towards our front-line worlds. That way, we can co-ordinate our assaults from the closest planets, and have pop coming in to back-fill them for the next assault. That should be better than trying to coordinate with troop transports needing 10+ turns to arrive on target.

We are done with Colony ships now (unless we kill the Guardian), now it's time to turn :) into :scan:

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

I saved the game as both save3 and save4 and zipped them together. I thought the norm was save3, but I got save4 from Liq, so I give the next emperor his choice.

Liquidated
Nov 19, 2006, 06:48 AM
I picked 4 from the very first save in the case where rb - er osg11 was revived, which incidentally zed just posted to with the option of reviving. Liq is psychic that way!

As is, osg11a is save3 and osg12 is save4 I would imagine.

Nice turn report and turns olor. I was slamming my forehead over the keyboard trying to get a screen up.

As for the ideas behind what to do with all our BC, excellent ideas in having the core non hostiles be troop factories. total :wallbash: on stalaz rich going poor. At least its' time to shine already paid off in that it rushedand held the NE all by itself, and just in time! We still have a rich in the NE now so it's not all bad.

Love the new names for the ships... guppy and flounder :lol:

Agree on humans being the best target but also on the idea of baiting the brains to have access to easy factories. The old spud factory yo-yo where even that ultra rich can be the spud!!

Cheers!
-Liq

Zed-F
Nov 19, 2006, 07:23 AM
I usually alternate between Save 3 and Save 4 for SGs, and Save 1 and Save 2 for private games. Save 5 and 6 were being reserved for Imperia, but we haven't had any of those in a long time. (If someone wants to start one, though, I'm sure it could be arranged!)

StuporMan
Nov 19, 2006, 11:38 AM
We look to be in pretty good shape. The only problems I can foresee in the the near future is if we can get enough population to conquer a human world before they get too many gropo techs for us to do so with any efficiency. Our slow growth rate coupled with our complete lack of researched gropo techs our the main limiting factor this game.

Our goal should be to capture the first human world before they get personal deflectors. Right now we are just behind in the hand lasers tech, meaning they get a +5 bonus on us. If they get PDS they will get a +15 and we will be taking very heavy losses.

Another thing we might consider is trying to take out SOL early. We should achieve tech parity with 2 captured worlds if one of them is SOL, and then we can advance on other fronts simultaneously. Our only limiting factor is our slow growth of pop. If we ever get cloning it is game over.

StuporMan

Liquidated
Nov 19, 2006, 12:34 PM
I don;t really think pop growth is that much of an issue at this point in that it costs 20 BC per population forced if lizard or rock. The main area of the game where we rely on innate growth is mostly over as the planets that matter are on their feet industry wise.

Couple that with our lack of pollution upkeep and that research is simply going to get turned off. in a way, it's going to be difficult to find places to send all our population and not have dead turns for planets in the back.

Cheers!
-Liq

OlorinStormcrow
Nov 19, 2006, 12:48 PM
I did another peek at the Humans tech toward the end of my turn:

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k186/OlorinStormcrow/humantech2400.jpg

They have Warp 3 engines, and FF3. So it looks like PDS was not in their tree; or they skipped it. What worries me is that they might be working on Planetary shields right now. PS5 + FF3 would make our Hyper-X ships unable to scratch their bases. If they do get it, we need to hit them fast, and try to take a planet or two before they get the shield up. Even if we just take out all the bases before the shield is finished, it will allow our troops the chance to land (flying transports past 1 or 2 bases is doable. 10 bases is just too costly).

I like the ImpSpaceScanner that is now available. Death spores might come in handy too. We could use them to knock planets down to less than half their pop without destroying any factories. Some care will be needed to avoid accidentally taking out the entire population.

RP-wise: Our ground troops use weapons that incapacitate enemies so that they can later be assimilated. Unfortunately, assimilation is a slow process...just as slow as building new units from scratch. Bio-weapons can be seen as spreading a non-fatal, but incapacitating disease. Fewer enemies will have to strength to resist when the troops land.

Zed-F
Nov 19, 2006, 01:58 PM
Dath < On Deck
Zed
Stup
Liq
Olorin < Just Played
Str00ld3 << UP NOW

Str00dl3
Nov 20, 2006, 04:08 AM
Well i couldnt have asked for a better run down to my turn, seems all is clear on the horizon.. Would have prefered the Humans didnt pick up the sub lights but we cant have everything fall our way.
Ive had a rough day with the daughter today so have printed out the maps and previous posts for examination in bed (some like to read a good book.. i plan my strategy for mass assimilation).. yep, the wife thinks im nuts..
Anyway, i have all of day tomorow and will start putting my plans to action after i finish of my bacon and eggs..

dathon78
Nov 20, 2006, 08:10 AM
Due to the holidays, I'll be out from Wednesday to next Monday; please skip me as needed. I can play today or tomorrow up to 2:00.

dathon

Zed-F
Nov 23, 2006, 08:12 AM
Str00dl3, how's the game coming? Do you need a skip?

Zed-F
Nov 26, 2006, 05:14 PM
Executive Summary:

First up, I allowed the scouts to complete scouting of the Human worlds, at least as much as can be done with bases up.
- Phanatos: Size 75, 14 bases
- Kailis: Size 65, 9 bases -- Our first target.
- Escalon: Size 100, 12 bases
- Sol: Size 110, 14 bases
- Denubis: Size 40, 3 bases -- Probably should leave this world for last.

Next, I send our fleet to Kailis. We encounter heavy resistance from a large portion of the human fleet: over 10 larges and 50 mediums, mostly armed with NPGs. We lose all our minnows and a few of our missle boats, and are forced to withdraw, destroying 2 missle bases and a few ships. Clearly we are not ready to go on the attack.

Over the remainder of the turn, I defend Dunatis against several waves of Human attackers. Our missle boats are adequate but not great at killing human ships and we wind up losing control of the skies over Dunatis for one turn. Our missle bases sorely miss better shielding against the human NPG fleets, though we make them pay dearly for their victories. We successfully regain space control over Dunatis in time to defend against the human troop transports, only to spot two fleets of human huge ships come in. These turn out to be death spore ships, which are slow but sturdy enough to take a lot of punishment. We barely manage to destroy the first wave of 1 huge before it spores Dunatis, but the second wave contains 2 huges. We can only destroy one before bombardment commences, and at the end of the battle, Dunatis is down to 6 population! Nevertheless it manages to finish off the human huge before succumbing completely.

We continue to attempt to reduce the human fleet, and by the end of my turns it is a pale shadow of its former self. Our own fleet power has been climbing steadily as planets throughout our empire build missle boats to contribute to the effort. On the technology front, we have stolen Inertial Stabilizers and Battle Computer III from the humans, as well as developing Ion cannons. Only poor Stalaz is currently researching anything, which is Class III shields. We should now be in a position to start attacking human planetary defenses in a more serious way.

Combat evaluation of our current designs: Having a 5-rack on our missle boats proved both good and bad. The problem is that because the human ships are relatively speedy, and our missles are not, our ships sometimes have a bit of a challenge actually landing missle fire without exposing themselves to return fire. This in some sense defeats the purpose of having a missle boat. On the other hand, the extra ammunition did come in handy for destroying as many human ships as possible at a couple points. We did acquire a couple new technologies during my turn, but I wasn't happy with any of the designs I can make at this point in the game. We should feel free to redesign a new fleet once we capture more technology from the Humans, however -- especially sublight drives.

Attached is the save file and a number of pictures showing what we are up against and where we are now, especially relative to our point world Dunatis.

Zed-F
Nov 26, 2006, 05:15 PM
Some extra pictures from the last turnset...

Liquidated
Nov 27, 2006, 01:38 AM
Nice turns Zed. Knowing full well that the humans were going to be a bear to take down, you did a fabulous job for the first stage of the fight. Keep in mind wars of attrition are only in our favor here as we have an industrial base the likes of which never before seen in an osg lol.


Dath <--- up?
Zed <--- played
Stup
Liq
Olorin
Str00ld3 (missing)

Well dath comes back monday but Stup, if you want to take turns go for it then dath can play before me. As for str... skip until we seee him again I guess!:)

Cheers!
-Liq

dathon78
Nov 27, 2006, 08:26 AM
I see it, and will play it, but a question before I do: are we playing with the missile-boats-must-retreat rule? As in, if you retreat missile boats from a fight, they must return to a friendly colony before re-engaging; no leaving them at the planet. Obviously this only affects offense, not defense. I would vote to observe this rule, but will follow the will of the group. :)

dathon

Liquidated
Nov 27, 2006, 12:31 PM
I see no real reason to hold to a 'must retreat' in that 1, zed dealt with the brunt of the humans attack, and 2, we have ships to burn.

Keep in mind that the dynamics involved here now are not about keeping ships alive as our entire economy is based on building new ships as it is, 'where are our ships?'. Too many ships alive and our empire will be bogged down with maint cost. The ships we do have are only useful if they are within a few turns of reuse, which makes engine tech sooo important.

Think of it as moo's version of civ4's slavery. Whip a few ships to keep under the 'happiness' cap I guess, it's ok to harm a few (or alot) for the benefit of the others.

bearing in mind transit time, we can replace any ships lost in a turn or 3 for the most part here so if there's a reason to stick around, take it! Not to say throw ships away though, just use common sense.

Oh and to be explicit, there are no restrictions on re-routing ships after a retreat. This variant is tough enough without placing additional restrictions on us.

Cheers!
-Liq

dathon78
Nov 27, 2006, 01:56 PM
Actually, I wasn't worried about keeping our ships alive, but avoiding what to me is an exploit in the game. We've had this discussion before, but basically the issue boils down to a small fleet of missile boats that are fast enough to fire and retreat without taking much damage. By re-directing them to stay at the same planet, that enables the player to win fights he really shouldn't. A fix we proposed at one point was to say that all missile ships must be retreated to a friendly base to "re-load" My view is that this is a good way to close the loophole, but I wasn't actually trying to re-open the debate. I just want to know what the group feel is before I go off and do something stupid :lol:

dathon

OlorinStormcrow
Nov 27, 2006, 04:00 PM
Our current ships take away some of the exploitive nature of missile boats by having 5-rack launchers. These tend to stick around long enough to actually take some enemy fire, where the 2-rack launchers can really abuse missile bases by getting off both volleys and retreating before any missile from the planet can reach them.

Personally, I will avoid using the redirect to the same planet exploit on my own turns, but it's a minor enough issue that I don't care how other people handle it.

Olorin

dathon78
Nov 28, 2006, 03:06 PM
Ok, so I'm taking my turn, and I manage to get space superiority over Kailis and send in troops. 87 Rocks take on 56 Humans, and we win with 39 troops left (I traded PDS from the Psilons to even the odds). There were (and still are) 120 factories left on the planet.

We did not get ANY tech from the conquest.

:mad: :gripe: :aargh: [pissed] :wallbash: :shake:

Now, considering the goal of this scenario is to steal tech, I am understandably upset. I'm also baffled. Does anybody know why this happened??? I've saved the game where it is at (2418). Here's the questions for the group:

1. Why did this happen?
2. Alongside that, could I have done something differently to avoid this?
3. If I could have, should I replay my turn from the beginning?

If the answer to question 2 is yes, than I think the answer to 3 should be yes as well. We NEED that tech to progress; the Humans have been re-building their fleet, and while not what it once was, is re-building as they retreat from us. I would hate this variant to end up losing because I've misunderstood some mechanic. As far as I know, you just have to take more than 50 factories to get tech, right?? I'm at work, (slacker, I know :p) so I can finish/replay tomorrow. I'll also try and see what the MOO bible has to say about this.

dathon

Zed-F
Nov 28, 2006, 03:16 PM
I'm afraid I don't know the answer to that; it's not something I've ever investigated in depth. You might just have gotten very unlucky. I would be tempted to play your turns to the end of your round, save the game, and then keep going. Once you've captured more human planets you can let us know if you continue to get no tech captures on subsequent conquests or not (and nothing else that might be a spoiler.) It won't hurt us too badly to get one lemon planet capture, so long as they don't all turn out that way.

dathon78
Nov 28, 2006, 04:36 PM
From the MOO strategy guide:

"If the attacker succeeded in the invasion attempt, for every factory captured on that planet, he has a 2 percent chance to steal one of his opponent's technologies. A d100 roll is made separately for each factory captured but, on average, that means you'll steal 1 technology per 50 factories captured."

Well, that's the answer; we rolled snake eyes. The odds for not getting a tech from a 120 factory planet is (0.98)^120 = 8.85%, which aren't actually all that great. You will roll an 11 or a 3 (probability of each number individually, not either or) on two dice less often than this event will occur. Interestingly, the odds of not getting a tech from a 50-factory planet are 36.4%, or greater than 1 in 3. And the odds reach 50% at 34 factories.

I'll finish my turns tomorrow.

dathon

OlorinStormcrow
Nov 28, 2006, 06:42 PM
I thought that it was probably something like that. I know that I have very rarely gotten a tech from a world with very few factories, but have always kept a rule of thumb in my head that if I wanted to try for techs, wait until they had 50+ factories, and then cross the fingers.

Late in the game, when you can grab worlds with 400+ factories, that's when the tech starts rolling in.

For the next invasion, have our commanders remind our ground troops not to use blueprints as kindling for their victory bonfires.

dathon78
Nov 29, 2006, 08:34 AM
Out of the office unexpectedly, won't be able to finish until tomorrow, sorry!

dathon

dathon78
Nov 30, 2006, 01:39 PM
Okay, well I finally got around to playing my last two turns. As I mentioned in my previous post, I opened my turns by trading Stabilizers to the Psilons for Personal Deflector Shields; that takes our gropo odds to 1:1 instead of 1.5:1. Plus, they were down to uneasy, so I upped trade with them to 95, and relations there were back up to high neutral by the end of my set. We won't have the tech to get past their defenses for awhile yet.

I took Kailis, putting Dunatis out of range of the current Human capability. That planet continues to rebuild. Gion is still in range, however, and Dolz may be as well, so watch for flanking moves. The Humans have a decent fleet over Sol, including one of those Huge spore ships. Their ships can outrun missile unless they are pinned down in the back of the tactics screen.

Class III came in, and I chose Class V planetary, not that that matters. Looks like we've hit the wall on our own research efforts. Careful of planets going to research after completing factory building, planetary shields in the future, etc.

The invasion of Kailis came from Volantis and Draconis, both of which will be back up and running at full capacity next turn. Our transports are still at warp 1, so factor that into your invasion plans. Zoctan will be online with a base next turn, and although we can't use it's artifacts, will still make a decent production planet. Good luck Stup! :goodjob:

dathon

StuporMan
Dec 01, 2006, 11:19 AM
I have the save, one thing you didn't mention is that the Psilons have a fleet inbound to Rha due next turn. Since we are still trading it is likely a border war, but it will be difficult to deal with, and if they want the planet I am not sure we can keep it for too long without better shield/missile tech.

I also would like to try and take Sol, or prep to take it this turnset (1 parsec per turn means our transports take forever to get anywhere) That should net us nearly all the human tech and effectively cripple them.

I will let you know how it goes.
Stup

dathon78
Dec 01, 2006, 12:12 PM
Sorry Stup, I didn't see that fleet; the brains have been sending fleets back and forth to those colonies in the far east, and I missed the one with the deviated flight plan. I probably should have been fortifying it more heavily. My bad if we lose it.

dathon

StuporMan
Dec 01, 2006, 12:56 PM
No worries dathon, I finished my turnset and we still hold Rha (for the moment):

Apologies for the long log, but a LOT happened.

Inherited: Poke around a bit, everything seems to be in order as far as production goes. Wait a minute! The Psilons have a fleet near Rha! They could be going to the uninhabited planet behind Rha, but I do not think they have the range for that yet. I reserve pump to get an extra missile base up before next turn and send half the minnows from Lyae to assist (although they will get there 1 turn too late).

2421: Good thing I built that missile base! Psilons sneak attack on Rha, I believe this is merely a border skirmish as we are still trading. No colships are in the fleet, so they appear to be trying to take it via ground invasion.

Psilons come with 3 designs.
1 Huge: 5 heavy blast cannons, 2 neutron blasters, shield 2, comp 1
13 Med: 4 fusion bombs
2 Med: 2 fusion bombs


I elect to attack the Large with my missile bases as I am not sure one missile base can take it down before it takes down the missile base. Also that will allow the minnows to peck the other bomb only designs to death next turn.

Results:
Psilons lose: 1 Huge, 2 Med FBx4

We lose: 2 missile bases, 16 pop, 69 fact

The Human fleet elected to move their Sol fleet towards Kailis into the teeth of our fleet. Since Kailis is already at max factories for its current pop, I elect to pump reserves into building some missile bases before the fleet arrives. It looks like we will take the Human fleet in one swift motion.

2422: I built a single scout out of Rha to assist in blocking the heavy bombers for as long as I could, had it been a favorable map (many roadblocks) I could have trapped them indefinitely, alas it was not to be they snuck next to the planet about turn 15 so they got off all their bombs. They lost about half their number before they retreated though. We came out on the losing end of that fight losing 20 pop and a great deal of factories (not sure but had to be ~100). I am rebuilding with emphasis on defense. I am also adding some bases to the surrounding colonies. I transfer some pop from the Fertile in the back lines nearby to help speed up the rebuilding on Rha.

2423: Human fleet demolished, only 2 escorts escaped (NPG larges). We lose a couple guppies. A definite win for us. The human fleet again is brought down to a handful of ships.

2424: Bulrathis want more trade. I decline. Psilon transports inbound to Rha (28) I build some minnows to thin the herd. The rest of the garrison at Lyae is sent to reinforce.

A scout will arrive at Denubis to have a look to see if I should attack there or SOL next. This will also allow the secondary fleet to get in position (Human fleet can reach us in 1 turn and it takes 2 for ours to cover same distance).

2425: Vote: Opponent Humans: 4 + 4 Darlok (chosen unwisely) + 2 Bulrathi (chosen unwisely), we have 15, just short of half the votes we and the rest abstain.

Humans send fleet to Kailis and run into 3 missile bases and our secondary fleet, our primary fleet will arrive at Sol next turn.

2426: Battle for Sol, We lose a few guppies and a couple flounders but we own the skies over Sol. It has 107 Pop and 206 factories, so I will be shipping Pop from all over to take it. I start from 8 turns out so the next person will have the battle during their turn. They are only up hand lasers on us, but that could change in transit. I will be shipping as many as I think we can spare. I start with 38 from poor Vulcan (they aren't doing anything there anyway but building pop and the IIT from Humans will make this colony much more productive anyway).

2427: Small attack on our fleet over Sol, they ran for no losses. I take 25 each from Voltanis and Draconis and 20 from Zoctan to ship to Sol. Psilon troops due next turn @ Rha, I have a decent fleet there and a few missile bases. I don't think they will get anyone through.

2428: Psilon transports all destroyed! 25 more troops from Stalaz.

2429: Psilons gather a fleet of 4 unidentified Huges. A misclick skipped most of what I was doing this turn, but the only issue is that I misclick so the reinforcements from Dunatis will be a turn late (Shouldnt be needed to win, so it will just up pop).

2430: 25 from Dunatis and 10 more from Gion added to the mix.

Next player remember that Psilons due at Rha next turn and that Kailis can ship troops to Sol next turn. These should not be needed to win, but it will help Sol get up and running quickly so we can move on to other fronts since Humans should have very few tech left after we take Sol (PRNG permitting) and should want peace (they offered it at least once during my turnset). The Darloks are second to Psilons in tech and are not allied with anyone, whereas the other 3 are in a dynamic of trading alliances with one another (currently Bulrathi <- Alkari -> Psilon with Psilons and Bears not in alliance). Hopefully Darloks will have gained some decent weapon/force field techs.

A note, I checked after I saved that the Psilons are willing to trade Hand lasers for Range 6 (they have range 7) and some other techs that I am not sure they don't have a better alternative for already. This would make our invasion of Sol more effective. Others will trade various things for Stabilizers.

Good luck to the next person (Liq?), I did the best I could to give Rha a fighting chance, but don't be surprised to have our fleet smashed by superior firepower from the brains.

StuporMan

dathon78
Dec 01, 2006, 02:36 PM
Good job Stup! :goodjob:

BTW, the odds of not getting a tech this time are about 1.5% (assuming the same factory numbers), so we should at least get SOMETHING :rolleyes:

dathon

Liquidated
Dec 02, 2006, 03:16 AM
sigh, seriously just skip me as I'm saccing sleep now just to catch up on a few innocent SG's and coming home at midnight doesn;t help.

Same goes for the cats rebooted as I simply don;t have time to concentrate as to not embarrass myself.

Don;t count me out of the SG's, just merely skip this round. Can still root the team from work... erm I mean the stands!:dubious:

Cheers!
-Liq'd

Zed-F
Dec 02, 2006, 10:42 AM
Dath <--- On Deck
Zed
Stup <--- played
Liq <--- skipped
Olorin <--- UP NOW
Str00ld3 (missing) <--- autoskip?

StuporMan
Dec 04, 2006, 05:58 AM
One more comment I forgot to mention from the end of my turnset, the Bulrathi are building up a respectable fleet of large ships near our 3 isolated colonies in the northeast. This is also where the Psilon's have been testing our defenses. We probably want to pump defenses there heavily for a while to ensure we keep them.

StuporMan

OlorinStormcrow
Dec 04, 2006, 11:47 AM
Hey all,

I thought I might have time to get my turns in yesterday, but it didn't happen. I've got my oral exam for grad school Tuesday, so I won't be able to do my turn until Wednesday. If anyone else wants to take a swing at it before then, be my guest.

Olorin

StuporMan
Dec 04, 2006, 12:00 PM
Good luck with your exam Olorin. We're rooting for you!

StuporMan

OlorinStormcrow
Dec 06, 2006, 06:41 PM
Pre-turn:

Sol is going to be taken out in 4 turns. I would trade someone for Hand Lasers, except that we don't trade with inferior lifeforms.

I see that we don't have any reserves, and I want to build some up to be able to pump bases out of planets when they have fleets inbound. I take Cygni, Reticuli, and Xendalla off shipbuilding and put them into reserve pumping. Their ships were taking a long time to reach the front anyway. I also moved all the relocs to Kailis from Dunatis.

Checking our records, I see that the next largest Human colony is Escalon, which will be my next target after Sol.

I also put a click into spying for all races. I want to get a peek at what they've got. Once we take some computer tech from the Humans, we may be able to start spying elsewhere.

2430: I chase 4 Human larges away from Sol, and kill off 1 missile base.
Psilons show up at Rha with 4 Dark Stars.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k186/OlorinStormcrow/Psilonfleet2430.jpg

I offer them a stack of Minnows to chew on while the Guppies unload their missiles. The Psilons manage to retreat the last one intact.

2431: Kailis adds 16 pop to the attack on Sol (we will have 185 to their 110). More Humans ships show up and run away from Sol.

2432: I send the fleet from Kailis and half the fleet from Sol toward Escalon. Hopefully the Humans will stop running away, or their fleet is going to get big again. Humans send 4 larges to Sol again. This time they stay and fight. We trade one of our larges for two of theirs before they run. Humans also attack Kailis. They bring 4 of their faster Warships (large with Neutron blasters and NPGs). And one of their slower models. They take out the 10 Guppies and 3 of the 4 bases before the last one is blown up. Their beams can get past our bases shields and do small amounts of damage. I reject peace with Strader.

2433: Ursa has launched it's fleet at Rha. They have 2 Huges and 8 Larges. I reserve pump Rha for more bases. Other reserves to Kailis to replace its bases. We get a peek at the Alkari tech. Switching to espionage.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k186/OlorinStormcrow/alkaritech2433.jpg

Our fleet arrives at Escalon. It is defended by 5 Warships, 2 Escorts and 17 missile bases. We have 6 Flounders and 286 Guppies. We lose 5 Flounder and xx Guppies, but take out all the missile bases, 3 Warships and 1 Escort.

We take Sol, losing 95 troops. We discover Hand Lasers, Death Spores, Sub-lights, IIT8, and NPG.

Darlocks, Alkari and Psilon protest our expansion.

2434: We get a peek at the Darlock tech. They have Fusion beams, and nasty bombs, but no missiles.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k186/OlorinStormcrow/darlocktech2434.jpg

I use the Human tech to design a NPG popgun called the Stinger. I upgrade our missile boat to Barracuda, with manuever 3.

Bulrathis attack.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k186/OlorinStormcrow/bulrathifleet2434.jpg

Claws are the only ones without Gats, so our new NPG popguns will take it out. Missile ships/bases will focus on the Tooths, as the Warbear can't hurt our bases and the Rhino has auto-repair, and can't touch the bases once its missiles run out. We take out the Claw and 7 Teeth, losing mostly Minnows who drew enemy fire. Once our ships retreated, so did the Bulrathi. We need better missiles or a lot more than 7 bases to really take on their fleet.

Spies steal BC2 from the Humans.

2435: Sol has refitted, I put some toward Terraforming and some to defense spending there.

2436: Humans get a Derelict event. Our fleet from Escalon is back. I send them for a second attack. Unfortunately, it's unexplored, so I can't get the troops underway. Instead I send some at Kailis and Sol, due in 3 turns, so I can launch attacks from there and get repopped immediately.

Bulrathi tech

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k186/OlorinStormcrow/bulrathitech2436.jpg

2437: Just how many techs does someone get from a Derelict? Here is the Human tech now...

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k186/OlorinStormcrow/humantech2437.jpg

Fleet arrives at Escalon. No new bases, just 3 Escorts and 3 Warships. They run. Humans have 100 pop, 194 factories.

2438: Sol and Kailis send 82 troops, they will get repopped next turn. I send another 40 troops from 3 turns out, they will get reinforced from a second wave from Sol and Kailis. I leave some ships to guard Escalon, but forward most of the fleet and all the new ships at Kailis to Denubius. I want to try to kill off a good chunk of the Human fleet, and hopefully take down their bases before they get a planetary shield up.

Repel a small attack at Kailis, destroying 4 Human larges.

2439: Sol and Kailis send a second wave of 60 additional troops.

Denubius has 7 bases--shield only level 5 :)
They also have 7 larges for defense. Denubius has 74 factories and 39 pop.

82 troops land on Escalon and kill 69 Human defenders. They have 31 left, and we have another 104 troops inbound. We should take it next turn.

2440: There is a Psilon fleet near Ursa that is heading towards our trio of planets. I can't tell which one is the target. Watch out for their beams, they penetrate our shields pretty easily. The next emperor should probably try to get troops onto Denubis ASAP. If they finish their planetary shield, and get a base up, we won't be able to scratch it with our current weapons. If you can get to Phantos fast enough, we might be able to genocide the Humans, but if they get a shield up, we'll just have to isolate Phantos and keep our defenses up. I've got spies operating against both the Alkari and Humans. The other races have too much CPU tech on us, though we'll have to attempt the Bulrathi when we get the Humans ISS, because they will be the only viable target for increasing our computer tech.

We have one empty design slot to use when we take more tech from Escalon. Either anti-matter bombs or torps will give us the ability to hit shielded planets at least. We might also need to build a ship with death spores to whittle down population before our troops arrive (especially when we try to fight the Bulrathi).

dathon78
Dec 07, 2006, 08:01 AM
I would trade someone for Hand Lasers, except that we don't trade with inferior lifeforms.

And score one rules violation for me :cry: :shake:

I didn't even catch it until now. I traded Stabilizers to the Psilons for Personal Deflector Shields. At the time, I was equating trading with commerce trade, not tech trades, and the tech was below lvl 10 so it didn't set off any alarms there. :crazyeye: Consider me chastised :spank:

Also, looks like I'm up by the original roster, but maybe Zed and I should switch permanently now that we've done it once? Seems early for me to be playing again.

dathon

Liquidated
Dec 07, 2006, 08:53 AM
Actually I noticed the rules violation but really was too tired to find the proper smilie set....


:sheep: :whipped:
dance!

or

:spank:
just a plain spank.

It happens dath :) at least is was a trade WORTH the pain hahahaah.

Was it sirian that said
"if you are going to accidentally break the rules at least make it bold tasting" or wait that was a BBQ sauce. nm.

oh and We discover "Hand Lasers, Death Spores, Sub-lights, IIT8, and NPG"

IMO that makes up for the wunderkin roll we got on the first human world.

sublights and npgs alone mean a *vast* upgrade to the guppy to add hand lasers (that's how we trade for tech!) and iit8 is icing. Adding in Death spores is really nice as well as we really have no reason not to use them soon enough.

Good stuff.

Cheers!
-Liq'd <--- only one D this time!

Zed-F
Dec 08, 2006, 09:31 AM
Um, you want me to be up? Ok... I'll get it sometime this weekend. Not sure when exactly. If you want to go ahead and take your turns anyway, that's fine with me.

dathon78
Dec 08, 2006, 11:07 AM
That works for me, today and weekend will be busy.

dathon

Zed-F
Dec 09, 2006, 04:48 PM
Executive Summary:

The humans posed no further threat and were easily wiped out over the first 5-6 turns of the decade. We managed to get Improved Scanners, Class V deflectors, and Class V planetary shields from Escalon, which was sufficient to save Primordius from the Psilon attack fleet (which would have otherwise nuked the place.) After a couple cold war attacks there were repelled, the Psilons have since been quiescent. A pic of techs acquired from the humans is attached.

I scrapped our obsolete fighter designs (most of which were destroyed during my turns) and came up with some new ones: an Ion Cannon fighter and an Anti-matter Bomb fighter. Unfortunately I couldn't fit a computer on the latter, so it's not going to be super-effective against enemies with lots of ECM technology. A picture of our new fleet and designs is attached.

Our new construction is relocating mostly toward Romulas, and the bulk of our warp 3 missle boats has headed there as well. The bulk of our fleet is old warp 2 design which have taken longer to make their way back from human space, and have just arrived at Stalaz. We have a small fleet of warp 3 missle boats at Primordius, but our defenses there are mostly in the form of bases. A picture of the extent of our front lines is attached.

I reallocated espionage according to our new anticipated next target, that being the Darloks. They have some nice computer tech to pick up that we will not be able to easily acquire via espionage, and which will help in our eventual fight against the Psilons; they are also the logical next target due to proximity with our core. The Darloks have relatively good planetary shielding, but their ECM isn't horrible for our bombers and their ships will be slow and poorly shielded. A pic of Darlok and Psilon technology availability is attached.

Of course, the save file is also attached.

Zed <--- Just played
Dath <--- UP NOW
Stup <--- On Deck
Liq
Olorin
Str00ld3 (missing, autoskipped)

OlorinStormcrow
Dec 09, 2006, 06:44 PM
Nice turn.

Getting those shields from the Humans was a real key to keeping the Psilons at bay. Did the Humans manage to get a shield up anywhere before you destroyed them?

I agree that our next target should be the Darlocks. The Alkari are tempting with only one planet, and the chance to score some Battle Suits, but they are allied with the Brains.

One suggestion for the last design slot in our fleet: A death spore ship. It looks like we are in a defensible position even if the other races declare war due to our using bio weapons. Including a few spore ships with the fleet would help knock down enemy population before invasions, and they would draw enemy missile fire at the beginning of battles. The key would be to remember to withdraw the bombers from a planet before using bombard with the spore ships. We don't want to ruin any factories! A spore ship with a Battle Scanner would also be handy for when we scrap the Flounders and upgrade them with some new tech.

Zed-F
Dec 09, 2006, 07:42 PM
Nope, no shields for the humans. Their economy couldn't support it and the AI doesn't prioritize defense spending the way we would for threatened worlds, so it takes them quite a while to get shields up generally speaking.

Re: Battle Suits -- we can get those from the Darloks, so no need to bug the Alkari (other than by spying on them...)

Re: Spore ships... We could conceivably use a few with scanners. Maybe a semi-generic large with scanner, beams, and spores. We don't have the tools to build a really nasty beam ship yet, lacking autorepair and beams better than neutron guns, but if it's mostly there for generic mop-up, scanner, and sporing, then it doesn't need to be anything really special and we probably won't build a ton of them. I would like to keep a slot open for later in case we come up with enough tech to significantly improve our bomber design by adding a half-decent computer (at least BC2-BC3.) If we commit to a spore ship now, then that means we'll need to scrap something later (probably our Flounders as you mentioned.) I normally don't like tying up a huge amount of production in any one design like we have with the guppies, as it makes it emotionally harder to scrap them when they near obsolescence, but we don't have anything else to spend our money on. ;)

StuporMan
Dec 10, 2006, 12:28 PM
I think a good spore ship with our new beams (neutron blasters), battle scanner, bc 2 or 3 and some shields would be a nice upgrade to our flounders. Our flounders really aren't netting us that much (bs + another source of hyper x's). The upgrade would net us a lot more without much cost to upgrade.

As to the Darloks next, I have no problems with this. I would like to point out, however, that brains have fewer shield techs (no planetaries), the same advantage in gropo (+10 from fusion rifles), some really good techs (fusion rifle, hard beam, phasor, fusion drives), and 2 planets within our current range (Misha and Paranar). Paranar is the northeastern most planet, whereas Misha is in the heart of Psilon space. These are more out of the way, and so this may not be the best option, but it certainly is another option. It may serve to keep the Psilon's from gaining too much defensive and gropo tech for our tech to be effective. (Class X planetaries, Antidote 1, Personal absorbtion, exoskeletons, hand phasor, hercular missiles, and scatter pack VII are in their current tier for research assuming none are missing).

In any case, if we do choose the Darloks, we do not want to wait too long to attack the Psilons, or we may end up fighting too much of an uphill battle. Darloks are probably the better choice for now, as they have more beneficial techs to steal (RC4, battle suits, auto repair, hard & fusion beams, pop +30) and their planets serve as good launch points into Psilon space, but once we get 3-4 of their good techs, Psilons make better targets.

StuporMan

dathon78
Dec 11, 2006, 08:06 AM
I see it, will try to get to it today.

dathon

dathon78
Dec 11, 2006, 03:03 PM
Drat, not going to get to it today, tomorrow morning for sure.

dathon

dathon78
Dec 12, 2006, 10:53 AM
Uh, it's still morning, right? :mischief:

After opening the save file, I thought long and hard on who to attack. While the conventional wisdom pointed to the Darloks, the Psilons were actually in a pretty weak position (for them) and I debated going after them now. However, ultimately I held off. Including natural defense bonus, we would be fighting at +10 to them, or 1.5:1. That, combined with the distance that their empire is from our planets, made it not worth attacking them immediately.

Yarrow was easily taken from the Darloks. I used 50 bombers against their 6 bases, which turned out to be just about perfect. We lost 20 bombers, but eliminated the defenses with only 3 factories lost. I sent in 164 troops against their 65, and won with 63 remaining, almost filling up the planet :snowcool: Our tech haul was just about as good as could be hoped for. We picked up both Deep Space and Advanced Scanners, the Battle Suits, RC IV, IT +30, and Fusion Drives. Substitue the beams for the drives, and it would have been perfect.

By the end of my turn, we were at war with everybody else except the Bulrathi. The bears did make a brush war play for Lyae with their huge missile platforms (see pic), but were handily turned back with no losses to us, one to them. After we took Yarrow, the Alkari sent an expedition for it, but all of their designs carry laser weapons, and didn't even try to fight. They are a non-factor.

On the spy front, we stole Range 5 from the Alkari, blaming it on the bears, and ECM II from the Bulrathi.

I stopped building ships about halfway through when the terraforming and RC techs were "discovered." All planets are done terraforming, and are currently in the process of building pop/factories. Be careful that we don't accidently build some research when pop and/or factories are maxed. I never did design the spore ship, and I'm actually not sure we need it; we just need to be sure to carefully measure how many anti-matter bombers we throw at a given target at a time.

The Darlok fleet is made up mostly of bombers/spore ships. The two large designs are each sporting about 10 Fusion bombs and a spore, while the hornets are carrying 3 bombs. I would guess the Scorpians are similarly armed, but that appears to be a mroe recent design, so who knows. There is a sentry fleet or guppies at Stalaz, but I don't know if that would be enough to take out all 54 large ships in the main Darlok fleet, so careful if they try to come after us.

The rest of the fleet is gathered at Yarrow, ready for the next strike. I kept it there to rebuff the Alkari and Darlok advances, but they are in retreat now. I would actually suggest striking Mentar next. We are on straight up 1:1 with them gropo-wise, and while they have Class X planetary now, our bombers can easily cut through that, and they STILL don't have any better missiles than Hyper V, and it looks like they just axed a large portion of their fleet. We should have enough fleet to go after both that and Aurora at the same time (I wouldn't send more than 75 bombs there), though invading both will take some coordination. Uxmai would be easier, but as an Ultra Poor with only 20-some factories, it is practically useless. I actually wouldn't mind just razing that planet.

dathon

Liquidated
Dec 12, 2006, 01:29 PM
Nice turns as always dath.

Actually razing the spud would be more effective than trying to keep it imo. Will distract the races as they make their predictable rush for that hunk of junk plus it frees up our ships for useful planets. Throwing the Bears into that pretty much means a clean sweep for them if they manage to land 10 population lol. win win pretty much.

After that first scare on industrial tech from the humans... we've been getting some nice "make-up rolls" on the other planets lol. Another fantastic haul.

In retrospect, the rocks are prolly the strongest race to play in this variant provided they score on those 3 or so key techs early on.

just barely not enough tech to cram a neutron blaster into a stinger tiny and still keep its engines but it's -><- close...

if you cannot get to turns tonight stup, I can play finally if you want to swap.

Cheers!
-Liq

OlorinStormcrow
Dec 12, 2006, 05:12 PM
If we hit another Darlock planet and get Fusion beams, you'll get your neutron blaster ship, Liq.

I second the vote for glassing the ultra-poor. It's always good to distract the other races, and we don't want to devote ships to defending it for the eons it would take to put up bases.

I also agree that pushing for Mentar is a good plan. It will give us plenty of new tech, and homeworlds are always easy to get back up and defended quickly. Plus it will cut down on the Psilon tech lead, and give their economy a nasty knock.

I'm actually amazed at the fact that we are flying around with Hyper-X missile boats still. Even more so by the fact that they are the most advanced missile in the game. It is both a plus and a minus for us. The good thing is that AI bases are pretty weak when all they have to throw at us is HyperV or X. Then again our bases are just as weak. If we hadn't gotten good bombs, we'd be stuck without a way to hit shielded planets though.

StuporMan
Dec 12, 2006, 05:43 PM
Liq,

I will be unable to play until tomorrow or Thursday. After that I will not be around for a few weeks. If you are absolutely sure you can get a set done before tomorrow evening you can swap with me. If not, then I would prefer to make sure to have my last turnset of this game.

And as always, good job Dath. We should now be in a winning position, provided Psilons don't get 2 gropo techs before we can take Mentar (even then it is just a delay).

StuporMan

Liquidated
Dec 13, 2006, 05:05 AM
ok!! prepare for the WORST turn set ever in the history of liq's entire moo playing career... I'm not kidding!!!!!:D


ok job one is to make sure no research gets funded and see if I cannot take out mentar. Should be no issue really as we have quite a fleet going at yarrow. Send out ships to mentar and they will all arrive in 4 turns. with my left over bombers I take out the nazin spud world of uxmai with no losses. Get a spy break on the bears and construction is all that comes up for auto repair!!! nice just incase we ever get a real armor. Send about 200 pop over to the psilon home world.

I get lost in an ocean of max pop and factory messages and double check my work using f2 f3 thought all this.

First round of mentar with 160 bombers vs 17 missle bases.... lost about 100 bombers before they run out of ammo but metar is down to 5 bases... the MAD rush for spud as begun! next round 25 bombers left, one missile base!!! omgomg. so 3rd try and the dumb brains shoot at the guppies instead of the bombers... I manage to kill off the last base and take over the airspce of Mentar.

145 population with 109 defenders and 317 factories... and we stink up the joint!!! 55 psilons live. I managed to mis time the troops... another 30 on the way. Manage to steal Battle computers 4 from the bullrathi (thanks!) but no frame as icing.

Silly me thinking bombers were ion beam tinys managed to lose yarrow to the darloks.... via bio weapons Good thing I had just completely stripped that planet of population! also we steal hard beams from the bears and frame it on the darloks. that's a boffo tech. psilons ask for peace as well...

just to restate
We stole Hard Beams from the bullrathi but they aren;t our highest tech weapon.

And we BARELY kill off mentar... wow 2 rock population left brains were killing 3 to 1. the techs are......
Fusion bombs
Warp Dissipator
Armored exoskeleton <------- WOOOOOOO
ECM 3
Planetary shields X <---- WOOOOOOOO
Range 7

missed phasors and fusion rifles as well as ecm jammer 4 and class 4 shields.



and what in tarnations.... I managed to lose the entire fleet due to refueling issues even as we control mentar.... omg wtf that is the most :smoke: thing I've ever done in any moo game ever.... well the good news is I guess we can use a new round of ships with all that new tech uh yeah the psilons have population arriving at mentar I think as is so they will retake. Yarrow itself should be next target again since it never lost it's factories... the darloks bioed and repopped with a colony ship same turn. So prolly get fusion beams going there. BTW the darloks never got any tech from capturing yarrow.

NM psilons destroyed their old home world lol.

We can fit a neutron blaster on a tiny now btw so jump for joy.

I put all planets on 100% defense for last turn and only 2 or so planets made it to X shields. Have time to remake all our ship designs.

As embarrassing as it is to lose the entire fleet to a bug. keep in mind what is built now took 4 turns or so to make... meaning we can regen a fleet each turnset easy. I honestly do not see a reason to keep making missle ships since we still only have hyper X one of the reasons I lost yarrow.... 20 missle basses weren;t enough to take out 30 larges. Time to make a spore ship as well.

darloks have zortium armor and fusion beams btw to taking back yarrow is a good idea and easy with the ships we have now. Don;t be afraid to scrap most of our designs.

Cheers!
-Liq

Liquidated
Dec 13, 2006, 05:29 AM
Anyway my idea replace our missle boats with a medium sized boat toting hard beams. Can fit a hard beam (and a 2 pack hyper X if you want) on a medium and still get shields 3 BC 3, interials, duralloy armor, and fusion engines with max maneuver. So lots of ways to tweak that design. A real missile
would be keen really.

Cheers!
-Liq

Zed-F
Dec 13, 2006, 07:58 AM
LOL over those turns, Liq. Good thing we're in a winning position anyway or that really would have been a facepalm turnset!

If we're going to make a beam ship, I'd rather make larges or huges. :) Mediums just don't have the staying power a beam ship needs.

dathon78
Dec 13, 2006, 09:34 AM
wow 2 rock population left brains were killing 3 to 1

Actually, that's about right. I missed the brains having fusion rifles, so that put them at +10 right there, since we had +5 from armor to their +5 natural defense. Looks like they researched the exoskeleton while the troops were on the way (bad break), putting them at +20, which is about 3:1 odds. Sorry if I misled you into complacency on the ground attack!

However, I DID correctly warn you about that Darlok fleet... so let's see, where are those smileys....

:sheep::whipped: :spank:

:joke: :lol:

Liquidated
Dec 13, 2006, 08:47 PM
yeah my turn set was a hall of fame sort of thing. mistaking the bombers for the popguns, forgetting 20 bases were total garbage against bio weapons when backed with bloody hyper X... hehe classic stuff.

As was said though, the game 's hard part is well over. To be honest, our very unique dynamic of how we get tech and just how much of our economy is invested into making ships.... the damage I did was minimal at best.

I'm still laughing tho.. between absent minded tech trades and Liq having a planet bake sale... that poor :sheep: is taking a beating lol.

Anyway you have to look at the save to see the effect spud has taken. With mentar up for colonizable grabs as well, man total choas.

as for a beam weapon ship, I managed to steal auto repair, BC4 and hard beams from the bulls. If that doesn't form the core of a beam fleet....

Keep in mind that the darloks have zortium armor as well as fusion beams so a quick retaking of yarrow should gain us those techs. So hold back on new ships until we clean out the darloks.

The upgraded popgun alone though is a huge boost to our fleet.

Actually in retrospect... the bait and switch of yarrow with the darloks was a masterful move if it wasn;t pure coincidence. darloks have at most 35 population on the spore cluttered planet with max factories and we have ground parity. that means we'll clean out their techs pretty much 100%.



Cheers!
-Liq

StuporMan
Dec 14, 2006, 05:28 AM
I am picking up the save, I hopefully will have it done either today or tomorrow.

Stup

StuporMan
Dec 14, 2006, 08:11 AM
Turn Highlights.

When I looked at the save Yarrow had 3 current pop, with 35 on the way (next turn arrival) and no fleet in orbit. Hmm, lets see I think I will send 10 pop and our fleet to arrive next turn, and some more to arrive the turn after to increase its pop.

We capture Yarrow with 3 pop remaining, we get Range 9, Zortium, and Fusion Beam. Liq, your clever maneuver of giving Yarrow back to the Darloks to get their tech was brilliant! ;)

I make some redesigns, First is the NB 4.0 (Neutron Blasters, movement 4, BC 2), AMB 4.0 (AMB, movement 4, BC 4), and finally the FleetKilla (HUGE, AutoRepair, Scanner, Inertial, 5 Heavy Fusions, 21 Fusions, 10 Death Spores, Max shield, comp and movement). I disbanded guppies and flounders. As shields come online, planets are switched to the new designs, Cryslon is the only one building the Fleetkilla (One should be more than sufficient).

We manage to steal ECM IV and Shield IV from Psilons in quick succession, we frame Bulrathi for the latter (Psilons at war with Darloks already).

Alkari seek peace, we send their emissary home in pieces.

We get hit with the computer virus event, I barely survive the fit of laughter.

The vote comes, we can vote ourselves leader, but what fun would that be. We abstain yet again. Besides our new fleetkiller wants to play, and it looks like it will get to play with the new Darlok Huge design. I think I will keep building them just for that purpose and start another building at Lyae.

We Assimilate Aurora from Darloks and get Phasors, Psilons are pleased with that move.

Steal Gravitons from Bulrathi, blame it on Alkari. Stopped spying on all but Psilons (need those rifles).

As my turnset ends, we have a fleet and an Assimilation force due at Nazin next turn. We should probably take Altair next, before there is no Alkari left to assimilate (though they really have no tech we need, letting them get genocided by another race seems against the variant). We should have little problems taking it in an invasion since we have a major gropo advantage, and their pop is low due to unsuccessful attempts at Uxmai and Mentar.

At this point we are almost on cruise control, our limitation is only waiting on pop to regrow before we can invade again. Don't forget to use all that reserve we generate each turn, we had a massive buildup when I started that I converted into our current fleet (and pop for invasions).

StuporMan

dathon78
Dec 14, 2006, 08:19 AM
We get hit with the computer virus event, I barely survive the fit of laughter.

:rotfl:

And the obligatory filler sentence to get the post up to the correct character count.

Liquidated
Dec 14, 2006, 08:36 AM
We capture Yarrow with 3 pop remaining, we get Range 9, Zortium, and Fusion Beam. Liq, your clever maneuver of giving Yarrow back to the Darloks to get their tech was brilliant!;)

Yes *cough* I um *coughsnorthack* planned it that *chortle* way .... fromthebeginning.:D

Liq's Drunken Boxing Style Moo Mastery I think...

The one positive move I made btw last turn other than my MASTERFUL ploy of bait and switching Yarrow....:rolleyes:....Was that I changed spying on the Psilons from hide to steal tech. Two free computer techs! Steal on darloks as well after I scored a blow up bases option.

Btw I think the Darloks stole phasors from the psilons since they didn;t have them when I ended my turns I do not think.... Nice catch tho.

oh and YUM. can fit a fusion beam on a tiny now as stup already had the model in the design window. Also is neat to see a bulrathi troop ship on it's way to a darlok owned spud. A done game for sure, LiqBrand (tm) turnsets notwithstanding.

Cheers!
-Liq

StuporMan
Dec 14, 2006, 10:50 AM
Liq,

Yes the Darlok's must have stolen Phasors, but the turn before I captured Aurora, everybody had them. Psilons must have traded/gifted them to the Birds and/or Bulls, making it trivial for Darloks to steal. So interesting diplomacy going on there. It was also fun watching the Ultra Poor spud change hands almost every turn.

Yes, I noticed fusions would fit on a small (with engines but no comp), but I didn't make the design because our current fleet is more than sufficient, and it was over halfway through my turns. If our next leader wants them, he should be able to generate a fleet of them in a single turn if he wants to.

StuporMan

OlorinStormcrow
Dec 14, 2006, 02:45 PM
I've got the save. I'm not sure how soon I will get it back, I'm attending a conference this week, though I gave my talk today, so my evenings will be reasonably free now. Then there's the plane flight from SF to LA on Friday.

I'll try to have my turn posted by late Friday night, but it might end up a little later depending.

Liquidated
Dec 14, 2006, 03:20 PM
I actually agree with not making a fusion beam tiny right now stup, just in my book, that's the straw that broke the camels back in my book. Once one can fit a fusion on a tiny (and a bc 2 is just another tech away literally) if the game isn;t over already, it is then, provided you have a few planets to pump out popguns.

Just no amount of shielding can realistically hold out against 1k fusion popguns.

Cheers!
-Liq

Zed-F
Dec 14, 2006, 03:29 PM
Personally, I prefer megabolt smalls to fusion beam smalls, but there you go. ;)

StuporMan
Dec 14, 2006, 04:26 PM
All this talk of fleets of small popguns has got me thinking. Maybe we should assimilate Orion, just for good measure in terms of the variant. A few thousand nb 4.0 should be sufficient and we will likely have at least that many just hanging around before we can finish off the rest of the planets. Besides it is the only thing remotely close to challenging remaining in this game.

In other words, bonus points for assimilating Orion and its technology. :D

StuporMan

Edit: I forgot we only have BC2 on NB 4.0, so we will need quite a few (thousands) to kill the guardian. I still think it is a worthwhile goal for this variant (maybe scrap the npgs and add a new fusion popgun or higher comp NB)? Up to each leader if they want to go for it or not.

Liquidated
Dec 14, 2006, 11:38 PM
not sure what Liq is smoking to be honest lol...

OlorinStormcrow
Dec 16, 2006, 12:25 AM
Pre-turn: I look around and see that we have twice as many planets as are left to conquer. I also note that all remaining planets are in range and scouted.

2480: I decide that it is time for an All Out Onslaught of Doom (AOOoD). :borg:
I start sending half the population from all our backline worlds, coordinated to hit their targets in 7 turns. First turn sees the launch of about 600 million troops. More will join the all-out onslaught of doom when their travel times dictate.

2481: Nazin has 21 bases, which fall, along with 34 pop to a stack of 700+ AMBs. I really need to split this fleet to avoid accidental genocides.

Our 157 troops easily defeat their 66 remaining pop but discover nothing from the 367 factories. The Darlocks have improved eco, but then again, we don't need it.

I send out more troops to join the onslaught, and scrap our obsolete missile ships in favor of the Piranha: manuever 4, graviton beam and comp level 4. I'd prefer a better computer to cope with the Guardian's computer tech, but it's the best we have. Unfortunately, the hard beams wouldn't fit on a tiny as I'd prefer 8-12 damage against shield 5 over 1-15 damage against shield 9. We'll need a lot of these if we want to take Orion.

I change all ship building to Piranhas. I also split the fleet into three offensive groups to go around and take out missile bases, and leave a good portion to defend Nazin.

2482: Altair is readied for the troops ships. The Darlocks congratulate us. I will send some ships to safeguard Altair, since we have yet to assimilate this race, and I don't want them destroyed before we have the chance.

2483: More troops! :borg: Unfortunately, the spud at Uxmai has been glassed by one of the AIs. I had planned to have that be the only planet to be spared the AOOoD. That would leave a chance to hit Orion before taking Uxmai. Instead, I stop sending troops to Ursa (only 27 currently en route), which will leave that as the sole planet to survive the Onslaught. Lest any of ye have any doubts, know this: More than 1.3 billion brave Rock soldiers are now sailing among the stars to bring ultimate enlightenment to the rest of the galaxy. There can be no stopping this landslide.

2484: More paths are cleared for our troop drop ships. T minus 3 turns. :borg:

2485: I managed to get all four races to congratulate me for attacking everyone at once. T minus 2. :borg:

2486: We have control over the orbit of every planet. T minus 1. :borg:

2487: Culmination of the All Out Onslaught of Doom. We win in a landslide.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k186/OlorinStormcrow/aoodcombo.jpg


I redirect all ships in range to Uxmai to greet the last Bulrathi ships, and to regroup for an attack on Orion. Any ships 3 turns out head straight for Orion.

2488: Destroy Bulrathi Fleet at Uxmai.

2489: Launch fleet to Orion.

2490: The Guardian proves to be too fearsome a foe.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k186/OlorinStormcrow/guardian.jpg

VS.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k186/OlorinStormcrow/guardianfleet.jpg

Our piranhas can only hit for 400-500 damage per turn, and the NB's only 50 or so. Not enough to overcome the auto-repair. The Guardian on Hard requires a bit more tech than we had for the Piranhas. If we could get a Hard Beam on a Tiny it would probably do the trick, although it would really be nice to get a better computer as well.

In the meantime, Ursa recieved a couple hundred million elite Silicoid soldiers. The Bears were easily convinced that resistance is futile.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k186/OlorinStormcrow/win.jpg

Long Live Emperor Mauna Loa!


I've uploaded the save from just before the AOOoD if anyone wants to watch it, or try to put together a better Orion killing fleet using the new tech we capture.

Liquidated
Dec 16, 2006, 02:51 AM
brilliant logistics there olorin and creative use of cut and paste.

I really must admit that this game had the most alien feel of any moo I've heard of. The dynamic of devoting one's entire industry to the war effort gave a highly unique "throwaway" feel to our ships... Each race we hit spawned an entirely new fleet.

Obviously the map fell right into our hands as the birds in particular never got off their home planet, leaving us with half the galaxy. Also the complete lack of any sort of basic missle techs across the board was stunning and was a big reason we won so easily.

Last and maybe foremost, the humans researching antimater bombs just as we wiped them out was critical. Without that extra ommph no way would we have been able to push past those shields.

Imo this entire scheme could be repeated and prolly play out a completely different way.

Anyway if there's an osg13, someone else roll up the map lol.

Cheers!
-Liq

Zed-F
Dec 16, 2006, 07:48 AM
Last and maybe foremost, the humans researching antimater bombs just as we wiped them out was critical. Without that extra ommph no way would we have been able to push past those shields.

Fusion bombs were out there, the Darloks had them at least. I'm sure we could have coped without that Derelict giving the Humans anti-matter bombs, though t certainly would have taken longer to win.

Imo this entire scheme could be repeated and prolly play out a completely different way.

While that's true of any MOO game due to the amount of impact the random maps have on how the game plays out, it's extra-true for some variants, including this one. :)

Liquidated
Dec 17, 2006, 10:56 AM
I'm up for an osg13 btw but let the holidays pass! lol If people want more moo punishment how about we meet back here Jan time frame? That way all need be done is keep subscription to this thread to see when people are free to commit some genocide.

Amazing game people, Liq should be ashamed!

Cheers!
-Liq

OlorinStormcrow
Dec 17, 2006, 05:56 PM
I would be interested in another OSG after the holidays as well. This one was fun, although once we started taking Human worlds, it was pretty much a done deal given our awesome expansion draw and the lack of any decent missile tech for the AIs.

Liquidated
Dec 18, 2006, 01:08 AM
I'm all for another rocks adventure tho not right next. I'd like to revisit another 2 AI race game like we did in osg11.

For once though how about we play the brains lol.

Cheers!
-Liq

StuporMan
Dec 18, 2006, 09:41 AM
Brilliantly played Olorin, I am glad for an easy victory this go round. This variant was loads of fun for me, simply due to the different way of thinking it required. We were very lucky in our expansion phase and that was the main reason we had such an easy go of it this time. The techs available to our rocks and the ai races were kind to us as well. I think I will have to try this variant again to see if we just happened to get the right set of circumstances to make the game winnable.

I would love to have another SG after the Holidays, I am not picky about the variant.

StuporMan

Liquidated
Dec 18, 2006, 10:35 AM
Dead on agree with stup on all counts.

As mentioned before, keep this thread on subscription so we can at least alert to an rb thread about osg13 if not outright create a new one here.

Fantastic game for sure and, as mentioned, very unique playstyle was required.

Enjoy the holidays if able :xmascheers:

Cheers!
-Liq

StuporMan
Jan 04, 2007, 06:52 AM
I hope you all had a good holiday season. Dathon has started a thread over at RB about our next SG.

Here is the link. (http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthread.php?p=19886#post19886)

StuporMan