Since we need to decide on this and more ideas are better than few in a poll, here is what I've heard of or thought of so far.


Pangea - would result in a free-for-all but could be interesting
Archipeligo - add a naval aspect to the game
Hub - similar to [civ4] Hub map script, central land mass with 5 fingers coming off
Wheel - Similar to a hub, but has a ring of land connecting the ends of the hubs

Continents - would result in 3 teams on 1 and 2 teams on the other. Unless you have 5 islands and then you really have a large island archipeligo map

Another topic is if you want the map random or handmade. I think Rik has said he'd be willing to make this map as well.

he just wants to be worshiped :p

Pangea - would result in a free-for-all but could be interesting
Archipeligo - add a naval aspect to the game
Hub - similar to [civ4] Hub map script, central land mass with 5 fingers coming off
Wheel - Similar to a hub, but has a ring of land connecting the ends of the hubs

Continents - would result in 3 teams on 1 and 2 teams on the other. Unless you have 5 islands and then you really have a large island archipeligo map

Don't like Hub and Wheel 'cos you know too much of the world. Exploring would be sorta dull. Go one direction or the other until the land ends/joins.

Here's another option:
Splatter - large central landmass surronded by a ring or two of islands, with everyone starting on an island.

Don't like Hub and Wheel 'cos you know too much of the world. Exploring would be sorta dull. Go one direction or the other until the land ends/joins. well then we just won't tell you :p

Here's another option:
Splatter - large central landmass surronded by a ring or two of islands, with everyone starting on an island.I forgot that you had mentioned this one. I like it. This one gets my vote unless....


Oh oh oh.. I just had a brain fart idea how about everyone start with a galley and a settler and warrior? Have the entire world as coast and then have islands throughout? I call it Cluster-well I can't say that last part.

My vote so far is my patented Cluster map or a Splatter map

Rik made for sure.

Archs clusters will make for a really interesting game. A starting curragh would be pretty critical because everyone would want alpha as a starting tech.

we could just let rik go wild and hope for the best?

My vote would be for a Meleet world, for sure. Preference would be for Pangaea with convoluted geography -- chokepoints, inconvenient mountains, lakes, archipelagos, islands in the middle of lakes. The only issue would be making sure that all five teams had roughly comprable starting territories. One team starting on tundra and everone else on grassland with rivers would not be fun.

I would definitely argue for a pangea map. Any other alternative is too succeptible to chance taking. With a pangea(-like) map, everyone has the same chances of meeting everyone else, and the early curragh isn't crucial. Having everyone opt for Alphabet would be kind of dull IMO.

Of course, pangea doesn't have to be one big blob. There's plenty of chances for special features. What I want to see is a map were it's not predetermined who meets who first, and where Alphabet is not crucial.

And I would definitely like to see it handmade if Rik has volunteered to make one. :worship:

EDIT: Exactly what SimpleMonkey said. :agree:

Eye of newt, toe of frog,
Wool of bat, tongue of dog...
For a world of toil and trouble,
A dash of Meleet to boil and bubble.
Macbeth, Act IV, scene 1 (sorta)

A big pangea with a meditteranean type of sea in the middle, islands like sycily and crete and peninsulas like iberia, italy and greece.

Random everything, no symmetry, no foreknowledge of any kind for anyone, starts with somewhat equal chances for all teams but not equivalent. Oh, wait, I haven't even signed up yet :blush:.

"Pangaea" describe it well. "All land tiles connected" allows us to have funky shapes and gaps and inland seas, features, and some other interesting goodies. :D I think it'd be really fun to just let Rik make the map, one the conditions that:

1. All teams have semi-equal/balanced starts.
2. Every/most tiles (maybe a few islands or so) reachable from the starting landmass.

Does this sum up what a lot of you were thinking?


Or we could have a "fantasy realm" map where resources can go on every tile...

I like that plan Ginger_Ale.

I like that plan GA. Sounds good.

How about that thing GA said, but with a "terra" like feature of an extra landmass that everyone has equal chances of getting to? That would open up extra strategy decisions.

I like the idea of letting Rik run rampant. Let him design it how he sees fit. I'm sure he has the creativity and the experience to know what would be a fun map for 5 human led teams to play.

I also would like it to remain random for everyone playing. I believe it is part of the fun to discover what world he designs.

"Pangaea" describe it well. "All land tiles connected" allows us to have funky shapes and gaps and inland seas, features, and some other interesting goodies.
I like this proposition for a map.
But in all cases, lets just see what Rik comes up with. :)

BTW, is there going to be a Meleetian sign from The Great Meleet again? :cool:

Rik is certainly capable of coming up with a highly interesting map, so I would have no worries about leaving it entirely up to him.

"Pangaea" describe it well. "All land tiles connected" allows us to have funky shapes and gaps and inland seas, features, and some other interesting goodies. :D I think it'd be really fun to just let Rik make the map, one the conditions that:

1. All teams have semi-equal/balanced starts.
2. Every/most tiles (maybe a few islands or so) reachable from the starting landmass.

Does this sum up what a lot of you were thinking?


This sounds good. From what I hear if Rik is willing, let him create the map.

This was a map idea i had a while back. I guess its similar to what CommadoBob has said. Here is a very crude drawing

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/4428/mapideaod6.th.jpg (http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mapideaod6.jpg)

The letter are were the teams would start.
Each team would have there own branch that links up to a ring of islands around a central continent.
As a variation i thought of afterwards was to have an inland sea on the large central island

Random everything, no symmetry, no foreknowledge of any kind for anyone, starts with somewhat equal chances for all teams but not equivalent. Oh, wait, I haven't even signed up yet :blush:.
Now this one I like! :goodjob:

Now this one I like! :goodjob:

I also have quite a like of that suggestion (I just didnt see it first time i looked at the thread :blush:)

I too like to leave it upto RIK :worship:

BUT give us more surprises (like the trained orcas) ... maybe even have a number of these 'easter eggs' scattered throughout which will be fun to discover.

One thing I personally would like changed from the previous map
1. I'd like a couple more islands scattered around the place ... maybe have an important resource found only on them.
2. Make Luxes a bit more rare ... Wine, Ivory were a bit too easy to gain by there frequency ... I did like the monopoly element with Spice/Incence on one landmass and Gems/Dyes on another.
3. Strategic resources like coal was way too prevalent as well.

I'd be a fan of having luxes scarce and feud-making, with like exactly 5 of each, and all of them not exactly of convenient access.

The rest, whatever the maker wishes made.

3. Strategic resources like coal was way too prevalent as well.And like Saltpeter?

And like Saltpeter?
That was a difference maker. That one mountain could've changed the complexion of the whole game.

I think there's some great ideas here. I say let Rik run with some of this.

i just wanna see some orcas! :D

How about making the whole thing a huge orca, with fins and jaws as "star-points" going away from the body mass for each player ... just throwing ideas around

I agree with Whomp ... the rarity of Saltpeter was a brilliant :clap:

How about making the whole thing a huge orca, with fins and jaws as "star-points" going away from the body mass for each player ... just throwing ideas around


thats what i was thinking or maybe just a massive landmass that spells 'RIK'?

Since the teams have probably begun discussing what civ to go for ... could be at least decide on whether Sea Fairing is a wasted trait?

If we do go for the Pangea option, then it might be good to know if there will be little islands scattered around that may or may not house treasures?

Well from the discussions the 2 map types to choose from are pangea or archi. In both case everyone agrees that apart from an even starting area for all teams the map should be as random as possible and that the Great Meleet:worship: :bowdown: should make it. There is two things we can do, a poll on archi v pang or get Rik to decide and tell us before we choose civs.

archi/continents gets my vote (4+ continents)

Please, please, not an archi map. It will narrow our possible early strategies down to a race against Map Making, making the game a lot less fun early on. Just check the various archi GOTM games, the most important thing to note in your spoiler there is a) how early you got to Map Making, and b) how fast you built the Great Torch. Any other opening moves are guaranteed to be worse.

Please, please, not an archi map. It will narrow our possible early strategies down to a race against Map Making, making the game a lot less fun early on. Just check the various archi GOTM games, the most important thing to note in your spoiler there is a) how early you got to Map Making, and b) how fast you built the Great Torch. Any other opening moves are guaranteed to be worse.
While at the same time, close neighbours makes an early attack a very good move, and wide open places leads to a farmers gambit with little risk.

Definetly Pangaea, IMHO.

It's more exciting. :evil:

I think having a map with fixed borders (no north-south or east-west connection) in the design of an inland sea could be nice.

It has its disadvantages, as Comrade Bob pointed out earlier.
Don't like Hub and Wheel 'cos you know too much of the world. Exploring would be sorta dull. Go one direction or the other until the land ends/joins.

example of Civ 4 inland sea
http://www.civfanatics.com/images/civ4/sirian_maps/sample-inland-sea.jpg

As long as the sea is interesting enough. (Maybe a small island with a valuable resource there).

IOne thing I personally would like changed from the previous map
1. I'd like a couple more islands scattered around the place ... maybe have an important resource found only on them.
2. Make Luxes a bit more rare ... Wine, Ivory were a bit too easy to gain by there frequency ... I did like the monopoly element with Spice/Incence on one landmass and Gems/Dyes on another.
3. Strategic resources like coal was way too prevalent as well.
That is what I found also. I did not like the fact that every nation basically had nore than enough resources to go around. The whole point of some resources is that they are scarce and that makes things more interesting and often wars have been fought over the control of the resources. I know that on Random maps tht the compute has generated, the I have started wars over weaker civs just to get control of a strategic or luxury resource just for my empire, and I think this would be good for the game.

We also need to be discussing the size of the map. Would we go for a tiny map and thus we would be going for early wars, or perhaps we need one that is of similar size to the last map, or perhaps we could go to the other extreme and go huge? Don't laugh at the last suggestion because Right now I am playing a PBEM on a huge map, so it is possible, but it will mean the game lasts longer.

I think tiny and small would be cramped, while standard might be a bit loose. I'm leaning towards small, but diplomats might prefer standard. Large and huge are way big, so while interesting for a few players who agree on it, I don't think it's suited to larger contingents like what we have here.

i'd prefer standard, but could live with small or large. really rather not deal with tiny or huge.

Here's another idea. Not only let Rik make the map, but also let him assign the civs. We would truly be the creation of the Almighty Rik.

Here's another idea. Not only let Rik make the map, but also let him assign the civs. We would truly be the creation of the Almighty Rik.

Now that is a truly wild idea, but I do like it.

The Civ assignments could be random also. Create the map and let the game select all the civs. Then randomly assign the teams to the civs.

Whew, that could be wild indeed. No way to know the map and no way to determine your civ.

Totally at the mercy of Great Humble Meleet.

Now that is a truly wild idea, but I do like it.
That's me! Mr. Wild Ideas :crazyeye:

Totally at the mercy of Great Humble Meleet. :worship: :worship: :worship:

I think it would be good for each teams to have the same starts but the terrain outside of them being different.

I think it would be good for each teams to have the same starts but the terrain outside of them being different.

I'd prefer just similar. Of course, I know Rik is rather creative when making equivalent starts, since in a PBEM on a map he made my bonus mined grassland is acutally furs on plains, irrigated.

I'm not sure I'm charmed by a fixed-border map. Perhaps more unpredictible and potentially fun would be un-fixing the north-south borders. Dunno if it's possible, but the possibility of an arctic invasion seem interesting.

I'm not sure I'm charmed by a fixed-border map. Perhaps more unpredictible and potentially fun would be un-fixing the north-south borders. Dunno if it's possible, but the possibility of an arctic invasion seem interesting.

It definately is possible, I know from playing with the editor quite a bit.

Here's another idea. Not only let Rik make the map, but also let him assign the civs. We would truly be the creation of the Almighty Rik.I prefer not to be forced to decide who gets what civ. Making a 5 player map is hard enough as it is.
Just give me parameters and I will do it.

We have another idea cooking in the "Double Civ" thread.

Don't let the computer select the civ. If your team ends up with seafaring on pangaea, you're behind from the beginning.

World wrapping both North / South as well as East / West is great.

Opening strategies of an archipelago map could be enhanced by removing the GL from the game, or giving everyone MM, or both.

Each team chooses 2 civs, then all 10 of those civs get randomly assigned to the teams, the teams choose one of those 2 assignments to play. Best of both worlds. Teams choose for themselves as well as for their enemies ;)

So we could have a 7 year game instead of a two year game? It's already going to last much longer than mtdg 1.0 because of the extra team.

were making this far more complicated than really it should be, we want to get this started soon :)

I think we're trying to make this more interesting. But I agree we should pare down some of these choices and get a poll up and running.

well however we do it, its going to be interesting so we dont especially need the 101 different options, the diplomacy between 5 civs will be interesting enough

So I assume we will vote on this soon, and via teams.

Will in be something like this ...

Type of Map ... Pangea, Archipeligo, Random
Size ... Small, Standard, Large
Other ... Barb Fierceness, Plague, World Wrapping
Difficulty Level
Prefered Resource Scarcity

Prefered Resource Scarcity

This needs a good definition of possible options. Id suggest Many (more than 1 per team of most/all resources) and Few (less than 1 per team for most/all resources) which would lead to 4 choices, Many both, Many strat Few lux, Few strat Many lux and Few both.

Lost, you misread my proposal. I was not suggesting that each team play two civs, just that each team chooses two civs, and will wind up either playing one of them or playing against one of them.

To be honest, I don't really care that much, as long as we don't have the same civs from the last game.

I want a map that is small in dimentions making sure that no one lux or strategic resource is more than the total of the teams invovled. Also I would make sure that we have some resources that are total for all teams, some that are limited and some that are scarce. So those definitions mean that some that are limited will mean 3 to 4 of each resource and those that are scarce will mean that they are 1 to 2 of each resource. The preference is that one or two luxuries and one or two strategic resources are total, being 5, so that there is one for every team, and then 5 of each type of resource is then limited and then one or two of each resource scarce. The bonus resources can be left up to the Map maker to decide.

I hope people understand what I am getting here with this post.

Clear as mud Classical.

Something to bear in mind. Depending on what level we play at, map size, lux availability and trade routes will determine research rate and length of this game. With 5 teams I think we should take this into consideration.

I am not particularly concerned about the length of the game. In the last one, the majority of the fun was in the diplomacy and relationships built within the teams. As long as the turns continue to move along, I see no reason why we should be concerned with the number of turns it will take to achieve a victory.

To keep the discussion moving my proposal is:

Small, Panagea, Temp/Age/Wetness is random, 3-4 of each rescource, roaming barbs, and Y axis wrapping only, Monarch difficulty.

Maybe we should have a poll put up soon.

I think deciding what style of map to play will push the choosing of civs fwd. On the other hand I'm not sure if we agreed on the proceedings...:hmm:
I would much appreciate if GA or RM could specify in what order this should be. From my point of view it's your call.

I think deciding what style of map to play will push the choosing of civs fwd. On the other hand I'm not sure if we agreed on the proceedings...:hmm:
I would much appreciate if GA or RM could specify in what order this should be. From my point of view it's your call.

Definately. Team D has a shortlist, but we can't go any further without finding out map type (or finding out we know nothing of the map)

I think the simplest and fairest thing to do is get the map parameters agreed upon ans then decide on civs. We have all played the game enough the know the strengths and weakness of civs on a particular map.

In the mean time we can make shortlists for which civs we want for different map types.

Okay, we have a voting thread here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=193084). I did it this way to see if we even need to start polling all of the different settings.

Just a heads up to everyone here to let you know this thing isn't dead:

Rik is working on the map and has sent us a screenshot so far. It looks like a very fun map (how's that for a generic, non-spoiler description?) He's going to be away from home, starting Thursday, for about a week, so if you can hang in there this last week...that'd be great. :)

so... we will get the map just in time for christmas? nice present :)

Hopefuly, you guys can get this started soon. perfection has emptied way too many bottles in our pub already. :cheers:

Hopefuly, you guys can get this started soon. perfection has emptied way too many bottles in our pub already. :cheers:
Scraping the bottom of the barrel, I presume?

Scraping the bottom of the barrel, I presume?


No no - we're all Waaay past that point!

No no - we're all Waaay past that point!Well hot dang. Will you send some of that our way? All we got is love. :cry:

Love is all you need. (Ancient Korean saying.)

When a Gongerian hits the bottom he starts diggin'

Would it not better to dig up then? ;)


EDIT. Do we have any Idea when the Map might be made? Will it be soon, after Christmas or New years?

Its already made. (i have my insider sources for that:))

Would it not better to dig up then? ;)


EDIT. Do we have any Idea when the Map might be made? Will it be soon, after Christmas or New years?

Did you see my post here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4875872&postcount=70)?

I haven't gotten any more contact from Rik since when I wrote that, but we'll keep you guys updated. I presume it would be done before Christmas, hopefully this week.

Gentlemen ... a watched pot never boils :smug:

btw Seasons greeting to all, may they be merry and full of good food and brew :beer: :wavey:

so is it boiling yet??

so is it boiling yet??It's on fire ...

Just catching up on missed sleep and letting my company X-mas wish sink in. :(

letting my company X-mas wish sink in.yeah, I wasn't going to mention it, but if I had such a "present"... well I jsut wouldn't handle it as well as you have

"Are we there yet?"
"Are we there yet?"
"Are we there yet?"

yikes - that doesn't sound good - layoffs?

yikes - that doesn't sound good - layoffs?

No, just my impersonation of Bart in honor of last game's Team Doughnout. :D

I think that Auto-Teller was refering to Rik's latest news

I was :) (is a smiley appropriate?)

I think that Auto-Teller was refering to Rik's latest news

Sorry, not paying attention. [twidles thumbs some more while waiting for this game to actually start]

Sorry, not paying attention. [twidles thumbs some more while waiting for this game to actually start]

Keep twidling. ;) (I sent another PM to Rik, no response yet; hopefully soon).

Keep twidling. ;) (I sent another PM to Rik, no response yet; hopefully soon).response given :)

At the moment the landmass(es) is(are) ready and the resource-layout is awaiting approval from Ginger and Regent. After that I will see what cuivs are to be on the map and (when required) adjust the map slightly for that. The the rules need updating (for instance - remove the Ivory requirement for SoZ). Then the map needs some playtesting.

Sweet, we are almost ready for play.

As soon as the starting locations are set, can you provide each team with a screenshot for planning purposes?

Thanks.

Sure, we will do that.

Update:
The landmasses are ready; the resources are placed and the starting locations (+ the civs for those) are done.
Next step: playtesting.
Step after that: kick off the game.

Great :)

Thanks for the update :salute:

I am ready - the biq is send to the admins for their approval and then the game will be started.

sounds great Rik :goodjob:

Right on, right on, right on! Thank you, RM.
:goodjob:

Save is send - order is Forum order, so TEAM BABE plays first.
Enjoy.

There is no y-wrapping. That means units can move from the bottom of the screen and appear at the top.
This was in our starting screenshot thread.

y-wrapping would imply that the second sentence is true. But the first sentence states that it is not enabled. so which is it?

Also is the normal x-wrapping on? (for example: Can you move from the far east to the far west in one move?)


EDIT:: nevermind.. I opened the save and you can scan from the NW to the SE... so there are no poles.

I meant there are no y-boundaries. You can go from the top to the bottom. UNLIKE normal-Civ3.

:salute:

Thanks Rik!

Game On! :rockon:

Thank you Rik.

:beer:
Team GONG

I meant there are no y-boundaries. You can go from the top to the bottom. UNLIKE normal-Civ3.

i.e. the world is not cylindrical - it is donut shaped.

mmm donuts.

i.e. the world is not cylindrical - it is donut shaped.

Well...there is no hole in the middle. :p


Thanks again Rik! :goodjob:

mmm.. jelly filled

i.e. the world is not cylindrical - it is donut shaped.

So - if our people look up they might see some other people? :hmm: :crazyeye:

I really fail to imagine this y-wrapping... :blush:
Who came up with that?!? :rolleyes:

http://209.85.12.231/2135/53/emo/eager.gif

what the .. what is that thing??

A smilie raising his arm and hand like a child in school.

it looks mutated... like a private appendage protruding from it's left ear

EDIT:: nice map though.. at least the 13 cows that we have in our capital will have some of them worked at all times. ;)

So - if our people look up they might see some other people? :hmm: :crazyeye:

I really fail to imagine this y-wrapping... :blush:
Who came up with that?!? :rolleyes:

If you're on the northpole and you move north you "teleport" to the south pole, and if you're on the western edge, and move west you "teleport" to the eastern edge (right??)

Yep........

Right. So it's like taking the usual cylinder shape and bending it back onto itself so that the circle edges coïncide. You can think of it as a green onion, with the white part being the south, green being the north, and you bend the tip back onto the roots. It makes a slim donut (although that latter wouldn't taste the same as usual).

http://www.hormel.com/kitchen/images/refimages/kitchen_advice/fruit_veg/onions/green_onion.jpg

If you're on the northpole and you move north you "teleport" to the south pole, and if you're on the western edge, and move west you "teleport" to the eastern edge (right??)

yes... also if you move NE from the northeastern corner you'll tele-port to the southwestern corner

Thanks for making another map :D


That smiley is starting to scare me :scan:

13 cows is nice. we got gold on grass - we'll have 4 turn research at size 4!

Am guessing we are in republic by 2000 BC, Cavalry by 850 BC....

Yeah, well I'll bet our tundra has all the oil...

Yeah, well I'll bet our tundra has all the oil...No Oil needed for cavs - I forgot to change that in the rules. Sorry... :p

We got a rock.

We got a rock.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a358/Box180295/MTDG2/IGotARock.jpg

Aaah. :sad:

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

I once went to a halloween party as a charlie brown ghost....

Hi Guys

Belated Happy New Year :D

Can anyone inform me the size of the map we are playing on ... :hmm: it looks large?

Hi Guys

Belated Happy New Year :D

Can anyone inform me the size of the map we are playing on ... :hmm: it looks large?Happy new year, IronGold. :)

This is what is known of the map:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4731308&postcount=1

The rest you need to figure out yourselves.

LOL twas a nice try anyway :mischief: