With 5 teams it is thinkable that 2 (or more) teams pick the same civ. I have no problem creating such a game. The question is: do you want it or don't you want it.
If not: what to do if 2 teams chose the same team ?

The way it worked in the Civ3 MTDG I, which I think is fair enough, is just to randomly chose the team that gets that civilization (via online RNG). The loser gets their next best choice. I just think that having 2 teams with the same civilization is too awkward and confusion...

Basically: teams submit a list of 5 (?) preferred civilizations in order, and if there's a conflict, we just "flip a coin" to determine who gets that one.

The way it worked in the Civ3 MTDG I, which I think is fair enough, is just to randomly chose the team that gets that civilization (via online RNG). The loser gets their next best choice. I just think that having 2 teams with the same civilization is too awkward and confusion...

Basically: teams submit a list of 5 (?) preferred civilizations in order, and if there's a conflict, we just "flip a coin" to determine who gets that one.
That's what I was hoping for as well.

I was wondering if we could have a clause where no Team may pick a civ from the previous MTDG? (Greece, Iroquois, Celts, Persia). I think it'd be much more interesting if there were all new civs.

I don't know about that ... with totally new teams I think that the play style will change anyway.

yeah.. we're gonna be the Mayans to enslave the barbarians to have a big pile of workers... so no one else pick them :p

I'm fine with GA & RM's approach to it, but I don't think that it's necessary to exclude the previous civs

what about randoming civs

With random civs you could get Portugal sitting between Germany and Rome ... I wouldn't like to be the former. The above method sounds very fine to me: list 5 and rng it down.

Let Rik pick the civs. I'm sure his devious mind can come up with some very interesting match ups. :mischief: Maybe he gives us all a similar trait, maybe we get a similar UU. Maybe he gives us traits that don't fit the map (seafaring on a panagea), or that do.

Well the great Meleet is in a 4x4 pbem with a group of us where we chose for the other teams. Needless to say the "land of misfit civs" is appropriate. :D

Considering that this isn't about us forming a team of civs, but five different civs, it is better for each team to decide and that we have a list to choose from in the case we have a tie.

I also would prefer to have a say in which civ. we get.

How about each team pick a civ, then have all five assigned randomly, so effectively you're picking for another team? Could make for some interesting strategic decisions. :devil:

How about each team pick a civ, then have all five assigned randomly, so effectively you're picking for another team? Could make for some interesting strategic decisions. :devil:

But you could be picking for yourself as well!

I love this idea! We'll have America, Portugal, Korea, Aztecs and Mayans.

Hmmm ... I do too, it would be a real challenge for a peacefull scientific game style to play a Militaristic civ :thumbsup:

However I do prefer to have the challenge external so if it goes to a vote, I'd be leaning towards having teams decide (as it was done in MTDG I)

Hmmm ... I do too, it would be a real challenge for a peacefull scientific game style to play a Militaristic civ :thumbsup:
Precisely! It will put you out of your comfort level. Plus it will be a random assignment, so you don't know who will get the militaristic civ. It will require a lot of thought.

Even better, I think if we want to do this, we should do it before Rik announces the map characteristics. If we have a panagea, everyone will select seafaring as one of their traits. If we have an archipelago, everyone will select expansionist as one of the traits. Just to cripple one aspect of their opponents game. If we don't know what the land mass is, we will need to be much more sneaky in how we select the civ.

Precisely! It will put you out of your comfort level. Plus it will be a random assignment, so you don't know who will get the militaristic civ. It will require a lot of thought.

Even better, I think if we want to do this, we should do it before Rik announces the map characteristics. If we have a panagea, everyone will select seafaring as one of their traits. If we have an archipelago, everyone will select expansionist as one of the traits. Just to cripple one aspect of their opponents game. If we don't know what the land mass is, we will need to be much more sneaky in how we select the civ.A problem with that is that the map will likely unconciously be based on the traits and UU's of the 5 civs.

I propose to have this order:
* the teams decide on map settings
* I make a map. When finished I will send it to the game admins (Ginger_Ale and Regentman) for review. When approved, go to the next phase.
* The teams decide on what civs to play.
* I update the settings (not the map) on those civs and kick off the game.

That way I won't get influenced by the choices of civs and the teams won't get influenced on the map.

------

Other point: It is absolutely not hard at all to edit civs. That means the option of each team chosing 2 traits + 1 UU (whatever combination they want) is possible. That will eliminate 2nd rate civs, double civs and randomly assigned choices.
Just showing possibilities here.

On the issue of civs...

Are the civs going to keep their original colors? not like it matters...but just wondering.

i would really prefer we pick our own civs in the same manner as the 1st MTDG.

"if it ain't broke, don't fix it"

Where's your sense of adventure? Doing things the same way is boring.

How about we select our civ after the map is made, but you don't tell us the map characteristics.

Then they are randomized.

Other point: It is absolutely not hard at all to edit civs. That means the option of each team chosing 2 traits + 1 UU (whatever combination they want) is possible. That will eliminate 2nd rate civs, double civs and randomly assigned choices.
Just showing possibilities here.

This I really like :thumbsup:

I'm all for doing something to make this random and unpredictible, but giving everyone a chance to totally customize their civ seems unbalanced to me. Traits and UU's are fairly well balanced as the game stands. But giving a civ like Sumer, which has two very powerful traits, a really killer UU like the Rider is a bit over the top.

The ideas I favor most so far are:

1) Rik build the map before knowing what the civs are going to be.

2) Teams not knowing the map characteristics before we pick our civs. (In fact, I'd like it if we have to figure out the map totally for ourselves.)

3) Having teams pick a civ to be randomly assigned to another team (with the chance that you could get your own selection).

4) Having Rik tweak those civs in some unknown way after civs have been assigned (changing one trait, altering the UU's stats, etc.). This could restore any imbalances created by the randomness generated so far.

Like Sir Bugs says, where's your sense of adventure? :mischief:

Where's your sense of adventure? Doing things the same way is boring.



my sense of adventure lies with the map. ;)

i'd really prefer for teams to pick their own civs.

I love this idea! We'll have America, Portugal, Korea, Aztecs and Mayans.

These were our top picks :eek:!

Well, back to the drawing board I guess... :crazyeye:

I'm with Bugsy here. It will be fun and challenging to pick a civ that you'd rather play against.

As for Rik's order of tasks, that's fine with me if that's what he thinks is best. But it would add more of a challenge for the teams to not know the map details before listing civs :mischief:

id rather pick our own civs.

Just give each team a random civ.

I think we need a UN vote.

I'm all for doing something to make this random and unpredictible, but giving everyone a chance to totally customize their civ seems unbalanced to me. Traits and UU's are fairly well balanced as the game stands. But giving a civ like Sumer, which has two very powerful traits, a really killer UU like the Rider is a bit over the top.

The ideas I favor most so far are:

1) Rik build the map before knowing what the civs are going to be.

2) Teams not knowing the map characteristics before we pick our civs. (In fact, I'd like it if we have to figure out the map totally for ourselves.)

3) Having teams pick a civ to be randomly assigned to another team (with the chance that you could get your own selection).

4) Having Rik tweak those civs in some unknown way after civs have been assigned (changing one trait, altering the UU's stats, etc.). This could restore any imbalances created by the randomness generated so far.

Like Sir Bugs says, where's your sense of adventure? :mischief:
I think the Monkey Man has the best plan so far. I especially like step four to make sure everything is fair.

I'm with Whomper, a UN vote is needed.

Yeah, RM or I will put a poll thread up today/soon about how to select civs (and then you can select the civs, once we decide on a method).

Just a thought...

What if we had all teams have the exact same traits and UU? The tough part of the game would be out-thinking the other teams since we all have the same opportunities.

Note: I am not sure if I even support this idea - just throwing it into the works for discussion.

Another idea

each team gives 3 civs. each team gets a random from those three. Prefered civ gets put in twice. IE: America, Russia, England, England

not sure waht to do about repeats

Let each team pick a civ. If two teams have the same civ, make them both pick again until they have different ones.

Another idea

each team gives 3 civs. each team gets a random from those three. Prefered civ gets put in twice. IE: America, Russia, England, England

not sure waht to do about repeats
Why twice? Why random in this scenario? This is way too hard, and why I hate these demo games.

Or just get the teams to decide on 5 roughly equal teams to play as, then get the teams given out randomly.

ie; each team chooses a top 3 civs getting 1st available option (for an example; T1 chooses Russia, T2 chooses Persia, T3 chooses Inca, T4 chooses Celts, T5 chooses Carthage).
The civs get given out randomly between the 5 teams (so T1 might get Inca, T2 Russia, T3 Carthage, T4 Celts, T5 Persia)

Very simple, yet adds the uncertainty that a few people have been wanting.

It probably adds some excitement to the initial phase to randomly assign civs, but then you have to play a civ that does not fit the preferred playstyle of your team for over a year! I would rather pick a civ I like.

How about having Rik put slips of paper with the letters A, B, C, D and E in a hat (or bag or something), mix them up, and write down the order in which he takes them out? Then the 1st team drawn gets first choice of all 31 civs, 2nd team gets second choice, etc.

That would be totally random and just maybe most of the teams would get their first choice anyway. AND...it's EASY!!! :D

I agree with zyxy. It may be fun to laugh at what poor picks the opponents got, and maybe exciting in the beginning to work with the civ you are awarded, but I'd much rather have fun for the whole game.

gma when you gonna sign up for team B.A.B.E??? :D

gma when you gonna sign up for team B.A.B.E??? :D
After all the stronger players have signed up. Since players who don't actually pick a team are assigned to the one with the fewest members, I don't want to take up a valuable space. I'm just the cookie baker, ya know. :p

Thanks for thinking of me, Simon! :)

The way I see it we should be allowed to choose traits and uu freely, but not the map. Imagine the tribes (teams) dropped down in an unknown, Meleetian, world. They cannot decide what their world will look like or how big it is. What they can decide is what they want to be like and how to use their strengths in any possible way. I think the past mtdg clearly showed that the impact of base civ is secondary to that of skilled playing. We saw 2 agri civs with "awesome" offensive uu's get blown up by the Hoplites. Making sound strategic decisions and doing good diplo beats any trait or uu in the game. Period.
So, let each team pick 2 traits and 1 uu, let every team get what they want. Have this process spoilered for Rik, then let the Great Meleet do a standard sized map "blindfolded". No one can accuse him for favouring a team then.
Let everything else be random except setting "No barbarians" and "Do not allow scientific great leaders". Meanwhile teams go through the mtdg1 ruleset and suggest changes (or rather no changes). Then throw us out of the space ship and into the black.

Pick traits+UU, blindfold rik, then jump in. Sounds good. I like the blindfolding Rik part.

I'd like to see barbarians, though, and I doubt it will change anyone's traits or UU.

slave farming :D

Daghdha's way is great with me :)

I'm unclear on one thing - when the teams pick traits and a UU, are we selecting from Unmodded civs?

Or can we choose any UU to mate with any combo of traits?

I only ask because Rik had mentioned that it's easy to tweak the civs like that.

Part of the fun with civ is the strengths and weaknesses of your civilization.
Part of the risk of taking an ag civ means a ancient age or mid age defensive UU. For a pbem that might be fine but for the MTDG playing an all star team of traits and UU's doesn't sound like as much fun to me.

My impression of this and earlier discussions is that everyone has his/her own opinion on what those "all star" trait and uu's are. Especially if you're blind to the map settings when you choose, because it all depends on x. For me it would be no prob if all teams went agr/com with sip's as uu. Then it would be all down to playing skills.

I dont like the 'pick 2 traits, pick 1 UU, get 1 super civ' idea. Everyone being Agricultural, with Sipahis, Mounties and Riders as UUs isn't as great as it seems from first look.

Maybe we should eliminate civs that would remove fun. Or have a pool of civs to chosse from./

How about this

Take all 31 civs and split them into 5 lists of 6 (throw away the last one - or last 2 if you include Austria)
Hand a list to each team.
Each team can pick any civ from that list.
Rik could make up the lists so they are balanced (he won't know exactly what civs the team will pick) - or it could be done at random if people are afraid it would influence the map too much.

6 civs should give enough choice so that people can find a civ that they don't mind playing, removes all clashes, and is simple.

Guys, it's already being discussed and voted on by individual teams in their respective forums.

Do we hold off on this and await further discussion here or go with the options already put forward? If so for how long?

team BABE's poll is already a 2/3 unanimous vote for the same as MTDG 1

Team B has a similar trend

we're not so unanimous about difficulty level though, tubby is arguing that warlord is the way forward but i keep telling him that chieften is where its at!!! we dont want to be too big for our boots!