Welcome!

Map Size: Large.
Map Type: Continents, 70% Water.
Map Settings: Random.
Barbarians: Raging.

Civilization: Persians.
# of Rivals: 11

Downloading the game and playing it to see what's going to happen is a major violation of the code of rules of the democracy game! If discovered, the person will be banned from the forum, and from the game.

The journey begins.

The Fox Nest is founded next to a Lake, right were the Settler started (if I would have played again I would have moved it one tile to to the East, but I couldn't see the coast, so...). The Gold resources seemed to be just fine, and the closeness to spices was to our satisfaction.

The game turns went by and by Micromanging the Citizens I could get the warrior in about 5 turns Instead of 10 and losing only 1 Turn on the Growth.

The Warrior was sent first east and then along the Hills towards the south. Next it will go more east. These are the spots I consider Good city sites for the future. This will of course be discussed.

- The Pink spot is Probably the next City... if we decide so, I will build a road towards the location.

- The Blue spot is a little misplaced maybe. It should be moved to the Other spice spot, making it get more Water (more food and money), so it won't steal so many good spots from the other cities.

- The Yellow city, is placed so that it will get to share the "Game" with the Capital. Micromanagement you know, they can use it both every other turn. And to get the Forest tiles (future Grassland and Plains within the Mountains). But When discussed we Thought that One tile To the SE would be better...

Here is the Screenshot:
http://medieteknik.bth.se/frst01/phonetic.JPG

Downloading the game and playing it to see what's going to happen is a major violation of the code of rules of the democracy game! If discovered, the person will be banned from the forum, and from the game.

I think the plans put the cities too close. I suggest some more exploration before any definite plans, but here's my idea for expansion.

These arrows should be explored

Previous city idea

This is the new idea for a city

Other than those, its the same.

NOTE: the silver was what was originaly suggested, greyfox changed his image

The text got too long, see below for text attachment. |
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Why should we build so close to the capital?

- It won't steal many tiles from the Capital.
Only the one it's built on and maybe One or Two more during the game.

- This city will first act as a Settler Factory.
And a Commerce producer later in the game. (As every Coastal and Sea tile produce atleast 2 Gold).

As Eyrei said:
"The fish will allow it to grow without a harbor, then it can use one grassland square to grow to size three, then a forest to finish the settler."

Here is the full text of last night's chat.

Ugh... we need *FOOD*.

The yellow city will be size *2*. MAX!! There's not a single 2-food square there, although I could be mis-reading the map. I'm not a fan of the blue one either, but that's a difference in start preference not a "clearly bad"/"clearly better". I give top priority of all squares to the capital, and do not like a squished core at all. (Again, mostly just a preference thing) So I'm sure we'll see SOME overlap, just please, no sardine core :P

Did I see right... is that a river down on a hill in the south?
If so, that's a *definite* and high priority site, if it has supporting food. In any case, I would urge choosing key next sites on the basis of food, not geometry. We can 'fill backwards' if needed.

We need more intel, asap! Scouts, scouts (warriors that is), get rid of all this blackness. We also need to know if we're on an island or a big continent -- that could have a big impact on a domestic settling plan (as well as my department :P ) With the food *this* bad, we need to explore a LOT more and soon. If there's a flood plains with wheat, even a dozen squares away, hidden in the fog, that is our settler farm.

Good discussion on the chat, and a lot of good input, sorry I couldn't make it.

General Charis

I think the plans put the cities too close. ]
I agree we should expand our boarders as much as we can then move inland.

I don't remember having read this in the rules (yet), but it needs to be said.

Downloading the game and playing it to see what's going to happen it's a major violation of the code of rules of the democracy game! If discovered, the person will be banned from the forum (I don't remember for how long), and from the game (this were a more plausible in the civ2 game since the forum is restricted).

I'll ask Duck to put in the constitution, but I want to make everybody aware of this important point.

Edit: Grey, I suggest that everytime you post the game file you put some kind of warning (at least at this bveggining phase) to make everybody aware.

Good call Pggar ,i forgot to add that. :goodjob:

Thank's for being helpfull. :) ;)

I understand the argumens for a dense build, although I don't generally use it myself. But in this case, I think the blue city might be too close even for that. As I understood the original discussion, the tight center was to develop 5-6 corruption free size 12 cities, rather than one massive capital. But in this case, we would have inner cities, without corruption, but so limited in size (by food/space/etc) that we would be wasting the corruption benefits on a city that might not hit size 6!

I definitely believe we must scout further before making a decision, and build further out to start establishing our borders. (Using a rushed library if possible!). We can always add in close cities later, once we know our situation and the geography better. As for a settler factory, I think we can find a better one if we keep looking.

The yellow arrow is not bad, maybe one further SE, if we can find fresh water to the east, those forests could be harvested and then irrigated to provide food. But that might take a while to really grow.

Just my humble opinions, as a loyal (but concerned) citizen. I think we will have a better idea after further exploration.

Originally posted by Justus II
I understand the argumens for a dense build, although I don't generally use it myself. But in this case, I think the blue city might be too close even for that. As I understood the original discussion, the tight center was to develop 5-6 corruption free size 12 cities, rather than one massive capital. But in this case, we would have inner cities, without corruption, but so limited in size (by food/space/etc) that we would be wasting the corruption benefits on a city that might not hit size 6!

I definitely believe we must scout further before making a decision, and build further out to start establishing our borders. (Using a rushed library if possible!). We can always add in close cities later, once we know our situation and the geography better. As for a settler factory, I think we can find a better one if we keep looking.

The yellow arrow is not bad, maybe one further SE, if we can find fresh water to the east, those forests could be harvested and then irrigated to provide food. But that might take a while to really grow.

Just my humble opinions, as a loyal (but concerned) citizen. I think we will have a better idea after further exploration.

Your concerns are duly noted. I, in fact, generally favor a more spread out build. Further exploration will certainly happen before the yellow city is founded. However, I do believe that the blue city will be of great benefit to our nation, first as a settler factory, and then as a commerce center. It will not use any tiles that the capital would use, and will, albeit slowly, grow to a significant size once a harbor and aqueduct are constructed.

Originally posted by eyrei


Your concerns are duly noted. I, in fact, generally favor a more spread out build. Further exploration will certainly happen before the yellow city is founded. However, I do believe that the blue city will be of great benefit to our nation, first as a settler factory, and then as a commerce center. It will not use any tiles that the capital would use, and will, albeit slowly, grow to a significant size once a harbor and aqueduct are constructed.


This is Correct. That city will almost only use water Tiles which the capital cannot reach.
And all Sea and Coastal tiles produce One extra food once you got an harbor, so that fish will support 2 citizens and every other sea and costal tile that city get it will have One other citizen. And at least 2 Gold per Citizen.

These ideas was only for the area I could see on the Very limited explored Map. So the Yellow city for example, will not be built in the near future.

/President Grey Fox

As a citizen, and the founder of the Spice Traders Guild (even though we only have spices! :)), I also express my concern about the city cramming. I was never a fan of having another city in one's city radius. Plus, having the cities further apart would mean that the cities won't compete for production when it counts. Looking at the sketchy maps that my barterers (hey, trade hasn't been "discovered" yet. :)), we don't have a wide area that is known to us. It would be a mistake to found a city, only to realize that the city radius (even the cultural border) is just out of reach.

I think we should build the intitial few cities close together to minimize corruption and build settlers quickly. Then, after that we can expand our borders faster.

Originally posted by Black Fluffy Lion
I think we should build the intitial few cities close together to minimize corruption and build settlers quickly. Then, after that we can expand our borders faster.
At last someone who understands...

yeah, I tend to build the first few cities close together and then later ones spaced out more to get more teritory.

I agree with the dense build policy,and think the yellow city should be where the arrow is pointing,same goes for blue(we need a harbor)

I totally agree with the dense building strategy. Good micromanaging of our core-cities will rule out the problem of underdevelopment of our capitol. Dense building can provide a set of early well- developed cities, due to less corruption. I think the blue arrow point is a good location for the second city. The fast development can give us the edge... and that's what we need:goodjob:

We'll have to take some decissions soon....

My vote:.. Dense Building --> Go for the city-core

Well ,since there are very different oppinion's on the matter of city building ,maybe somebody should start a poll ,that is if they object to the decission of the president or domestic leader on their decission.

Summary from the Chat:

"...I can see a Goody hut north"

"I got a map in the Goody Hut... I can see..."

"...I can see a new one to my east, a Cow that the Pink city will get, a River and many Hills, and INCENCE..."

"...the Peacful Villiage to our east was only a charade... there were 2 Warrior regiments waiting for us to come visit, our Warrior regiment is surprised attacked... but our warriors are better trained but outnumbered. What will be the outcome?"

"...can see a new Goddy Hut to the South"

"...The warrior regiment was slain, and had no chance... the superior numbers were more then enough to slay our brave thirsty warriors... our undefended people in the city call out for their warriors in the north... Barbarians, Barbarians!..."

"I'll return home to guard with the Warrior north... he will get home before the barbs..."

"Our southernmost explorer visits the freindly Hurrian tribe, they are peacful and scientific and can teach us much. Our warrior leader gets the chance to learn how to cleans the dead and bury them in graves. We learn Ceremonial Burial from the Hurrian Tribe... "

(after a heavy discussion about a name based on Eyrei's name...)
"...the city Eÿr has been founded. It's growth surpass that of the capital. The Cows are being set with Mine Detectors."

Read more in the chat log, find it here: Chat Log (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=235209&t=8885#post235209)

Screenshot:
http://medieteknik.bth.se/frst01/phon_map.jpg

This map is very Harsh and will require a very Effecient build pattern in the Desert and Hill area to the East.

So it would require a dense build in that area.
Of course will the cities be spread out to start with, but as time goes by cities should be added.

Citizens possible with each terrain (Irrigated in Parathesis):
(just multiply the number by two to get the number of food if you like to think that way more...)

RED = Without Irrigation GREEN = With Irrigation

Without Railroads, and in Despotism:
Desert = 0 (0,5)
Hill = 0,5 (not possible to irrigate)
Flood Plains = 1 (1,5)
Grassland = 1 (1)
Plains = 0,5 (1)
Forests = 0,5 (not possible)

Without Railroads, and Not in Despotism:
Desert = 0 (0,5)
Hill = 0,5 (not possible to irrigate)
Flood Plains = 1 (2)
Grassland = 1 (1,5)
Plains = 0,5 (1)
Forests = 0,5 (not possible)

With Railroads, and Not in Despotism:
Desert = 0 (1,5)
Hill = 0,5 (not possible to irrigate)
Flood Plains = 1,5 (2,5)
Grassland = 1,5 (2)
Plains = 0,5 (1,5)
Forests = 0,5 ((not possible)


As you all notice, the Hills can never provide food for ONE citizen on their own. That's why it's so good to build on them Hills. And deserts too, becasu you don't loose and Food or shields if you build on the desert.

Downloading the game and playing it to see what's going to happen is a major violation of the code of rules of the democracy game! If discovered, the person will be banned from the forum, and from the game.

spot taken....

Originally posted by Black Fluffy Lion
I think we should build the intitial few cities close together to minimize corruption and build settlers quickly. Then, after that we can expand our borders faster. Fr the looks of the surrounding geography, we're gonna have to dense-build anyway if we're going to get anywhere in this game. :( The terrain is pretty bad.

Originally posted by Knight-Dragon
Fr the looks of the surrounding geography, we're gonna have to dense-build anyway if we're going to get anywhere in this game. :( The terrain is pretty bad.

That's why we should dense build in the area harsh areas, 3*3-Size cities in the same territory is better the one 3-Size city.

And of course the good places will be Settled first.

Nice:)

Looks the the random number generator chose 3 billion :(

On the plus side, we will have a nice mountainus defence shield. :)

Well, we sure do have some ROOM to ourselves, that's a good thing :P

> That's why we should dense build in the area harsh areas, 3*3-
> Size cities in the same territory is better the one 3-Size city.
Actually, this is nearly dead wrong. Dense building *lousy* size 3 cities right next to your capital is one of the very worst things you can do. More on that when the time comes, as the next quote shows you're not looking to do that anytime soon...

> And of course the good places will be Settled first.
Excellent :P Full agreement here, and there are a fair
amount of good spots around. Keep up the good exploring!

Eyrei, thanks for reiterating and affirming the requests of the military during the chat. I'm not sure how many of those sessions I'll be able to make, but you guys made some FINE decisions in there this last turn :hammer:

Charis

Originally posted by Charis
Actually, this is nearly dead wrong. Dense building *lousy* size 3 cities right next to your capital is one of the very worst things you can do. More on that when the time comes, as the next quote shows you're not looking to do that anytime soon...
That wasn't really what I meant. And even if we were to dense build cities so that they would become size 4-6 in that area. We could always disband one or two of them in the future whenever we get Railroad.

Any way, I have made a little image on a Possible dense build in the desert area.
Some of these cities are VERY Low priority, if they will even ever exist. They can be change as we ever se fit once the map is more explored...

Don't bother with the Numbers in the Dot's they are just there to Separate one city of the same Color from the other.
http://medieteknik.bth.se/frst01/p_dots1.jpg
http://medieteknik.bth.se/frst01/p_dots.jpg

RED-1
This city is a All harbor city, it can use some Mountains or forests during it's Build-up Phase or when it's a Settler Factory.

The RED-2, PURPLE-2, ORANGE And Light Blue Are all cities with almost the same priority. Some of them could be skipped or moved some tiles. But they were all arranged so that they can get One Floodplain each and some of them Atleast one Hill and more then two Desert tiles each (deserts will support One Citizen each once they are railroaded and irrigated). Some of the cities have Plains or Forests with Plains underneath.

I have also Put an Orange Question Mark near the capital. It is placed on a Tile that no city can reach, but it will steal some tiles from the Capital... but it could be worth it. I hate wasting Tiles.
I have put it as a question mark because it is Highly discussionable... and We haven't seen that blacked area south of the location.

Most of the eastern cities won't be built in any near future as We should settle the best Locations first and these cities are not the best possible. But two or three of the Most Eastern and the Two Yellow cities should be settled before any of the other east of the capital... and then we could skip those, or add those later.

Mr. President, that's amazing map graphics work you have done. simply amazing. i commend your effort to simplify the placing of cities, to include their boundries , with color coding. i'm very impressed. please use this approach in the future as it does make it easier to understand your suggestions.

i only wish i agreed with your point of view. it looks like you are considering placing 11 cities in an area that should be used by 4 or 5 cities. of course thats just my opinion. our core city area is lacking any "great" placement spots, with mountains, desert and hills so your dense building may be appropriate in this "inner ring". our options have been greatly reduced by the harsh terrain and the coastline. tough call

Originally posted by Cyc
i only wish i agreed with your point of view. it looks like you are considering placing 11 cities in an area that should be used by 4 or 5 cities.
As I said in my post, some of these can be removed and moved... and maybe the most of the cities are low priority. And are highly discussable.

Originally posted by Grey Fox
Most of the eastern cities won't be built in any near future as We should settle the best Locations first and these cities are not the best possible. But two or three of the Most Eastern and the Two Yellow cities should be settled before any of the other east of the capital... and then we could skip those, or add those later.

The trade department agrees that the two yellow cities, especially Yellow 2, should be settled as a high priority.

Yellow two would add incense to our empire, and my trade experts advise that the populace would feel happier should such a substance be made available.

Further, from a strategic standpoint, as discussed in chat, I agree that odds are high that we will find our first rival civ just east of the mountain range. Yellow 1 and 2 will provide the beginnings of a cultural barrier to our side of the continent.

Bill
Trade Leader

It is my opinion that yellow no.2 ( sounds like a food coloring) should be placed one square to the SE from that location. The loss of a couple of desert squares is a small price to pay for that city being able to grow to a significant size.

actually eyrei, (and i know this sounds strange coming from me), i agree with grey fox that yellow#2 should be in the hills, for defensive purposes, but i would move it one tile to the north to capture the incense our trade leader spoke of when we build a temple or a library in the city.

Why are we heading east???the land appears to be marginal,We should be heading south and north(Fertile Green) to secure the coastline.If there is another civ east of us they will have a hard time to get at us in the mtns whereas we are sitting ducks on the plains.The coastal mtns will make an excellent defencesive barrier.
Seems we also lost a warrior,that was a no brainer,a single reguler unit more often than not always loses to 3 barbs,a veteran unit almost never loses.Building a barracks first in our cities is of prime importance,reguler spearmen wilt under pressure(I personally up-grade units all the way to mech inf so upping reg units is a slight waste of cash compared to vets).
I seem to be the only one that supports this position???Building a barracks first lowers the turns for completion of subsequent biuldings ex barrack 10 temple 15 for atotal of 25 becomes 18 turns if you build the barracks first.In the capital.
If we are to continue so send weak defenceless units to explore I suggest we send them in 2's.

Role playing part(not a personal attack)

Luckily this is not a democracy as the current leader would be up on criminal negligence charges sending un-armed men/women on suicide missions.

Deputy Hendrix

Originally posted by marshalljames
Why are we heading east???the land appears to be marginal,We should be heading south and north(Fertile Green) to secure the coastline.

We are NOT heading east. Did you READ my post? These are suggestions for the Desert Area.


Seems we also lost a warrior,that was a no brainer,a single reguler unit more often than not always loses to 3 barbs,a veteran unit almost never loses.Building a barracks first in our cities is of prime importance,reguler spearmen wilt under pressure(I personally up-grade units all the way to mech inf so upping reg units is a slight waste of cash compared to vets).
I seem to be the only one that supports this position???Building a barracks first lowers the turns for completion of subsequent biuldings ex barrack 20 temple 30 for atotal of 50 becomes 35 turns if you build the barracks first.
If we are to continue so send weak defenceless units to explore I suggest we send them in 2's.

What are you talking about? The warrior Regiment (Yea regiment, a SINGLE warrior in the game shouldn't be considered a SINGLE warrior), was sent to a PEACEFUL village AND Exploration... and he Died against 1 Barbarian of 2 that. AND if we would have built a Barracks by now, we wouldn't have 2 Cities and we wouldn't know Squat about the area. Do you knoe how many turns we have played? 24 Turns... A barracks would have hindered our expansion and exploration. But we will build a barracks sooner or later, and I hope for the first. But veteran unit's are not our priority.

Role playing part(not a personal attack)

Luckily this is not a democracy as the current leader would be up on criminal negligence charges sending un-armed men/women on suicide missions.

There was role-playing in it. A Warrior regiment was sent to our neighbour Village to visit them for the first time in history. Maybe we could learn things from them? But what happens, the Villagers attack us and our warrior regiment becomes surrounded. And later slain by the barbarians.

The warrior Regiment (Yea regiment, a SINGLE warrior in the game shouldn't be considered a SINGLE warrior), was sent to a PEACEFUL village AND

When one uses the term unit in english it is implied the reader knows a unit can represent a grouping of individuals.

I realize that a warrior represents a group
What I mean by 2's is 2 units together.Single reguler warrior units are not strong enough by themselves against barbs.

I also like yellow two area. If you go up one North and over one NE, don't you hit a nice spot on the river, with incense in range, and better food. Up on the hill is NOT a better spot, bringing a lot of food-less mountains into it. Also, are those flood plains in the eastern part of the yellow area? That would really help. I would pick a river spot no matter which square.

On a barracks, while I've put in a request for one, I don't expect it for a while. Building one this early would have been insane, and would slow expansion. These first warriors are scouts. If they see a 3-on-1 coming they should in fact run and live to scout some more. The day will come when we send a barb-STOMPING-force out, a combined spear-archer duo, or an immortal. Fair fights with barbs are like barracks in the field :P Promotion chances are good and if you pick the terrain right, victory is a high chance.

General question - is it my imagination, or when an AI comes in contact with you, his settling goals change such that he comes RIGHT AT YOU? In games with early contact, I notice the AI seems to beeline cities right at you, even when he's got a ton of great land right around his capital. Yet in games where contact is delayed, he has made no motion whatsoever to settle in my direction. This could be a 1.17 thing, and though I've not tested it, this pattern has appeared ALOT. **IF** true, we MAY just not want to force contact with a civ that we infer may be just east of us. (While we have so few cities)

Exploration and settling are the keys now. (And I do like the idea of having one warrior go straight up the coast, and one down, in addition to our exploration to the east)

General Charis

Originally posted by marshalljames
Single reguler warrior units are not strong enough by themselves against barbs.

True enough, though I have had runs of great success with a green warrior becoming elite down the road by killing barbs.

To look at your position deeper though, and correct me if I am misinterpreting:

You would have preferred that we had built a barracks or send out our scouts in two's? On that point I would disagree, as only 20ish turns into the game I think it is vital to have a second city producing and have knowledge of the next several city locations. 20 turns to produce a barracks would have prevented all of that.

Or is it your position that our scout warriors should not pop the goody huts unless they are travelling in packs? If so, I would say the risk/reward tradeoff between finding new tech's (such as C Burial which we did acquire) or other nice things such as a settler, offset the risk.

We suffered back luck when our glorious warriors were backstabbed by those backward heathens. The decision to pop a hut is not bad though in my opinion.

Bill
Trade Leader

Or is it your position that our scout warriors should not pop the goody huts unless they are travelling in packs?

Not exactly but should travel close together so that when villages are discovered back-up is not far away.

yea I guess it seems easy to forget it's only 20 turns into the game,and that this game is series of trade-offs.Next game you play try building a barracks first,you might be surprised by the results.

Originally posted by marshalljames
Next game you play try building a barracks first,you might be surprised by the results.

I will try that next game on my own.

One of the things I enjoy about this forum is the chance to see how other people do things and compare that to my own preferences.

Bill
Trade Leader

Originally posted by Charis
I also like yellow two area. If you go up one North and over one NE, don't you hit a nice spot on the river, with incense in range, and better food. Up on the hill is NOT a better spot, bringing a lot of food-less mountains into it. Also, are those flood plains in the eastern part of the yellow area? That would really help. I would pick a river spot no matter which square.

The Yellow-2 is located on a river, that's why I choose that location.

On a barracks, while I've put in a request for one, I don't expect it for a while. Building one this early would have been insane, and would slow expansion. These first warriors are scouts. If they see a 3-on-1 coming they should in fact run and live to scout some more. The day will come when we send a barb-STOMPING-force out, a combined spear-archer duo, or an immortal. Fair fights with barbs are like barracks in the field :P Promotion chances are good and if you pick the terrain right, victory is a high chance.

Yea, and about that death of a Warrior... sometimes you loose some sometimes you win some. Our warrior had no luck and did not even damage the first barbarian, if I remember correctly.

General question - is it my imagination, or when an AI comes in contact with you, his settling goals change such that he comes RIGHT AT YOU? In games with early contact, I notice the AI seems to beeline cities right at you, even when he's got a ton of great land right around his capital. Yet in games where contact is delayed, he has made no motion whatsoever to settle in my direction. This could be a 1.17 thing, and though I've not tested it, this pattern has appeared ALOT. **IF** true, we MAY just not want to force contact with a civ that we infer may be just east of us. (While we have so few cities)

I havn't noticed this yet, but that may be true. If that's a fact, it might not matter as we would do the same.

Exploration and settling are the keys now. (And I do like the idea of having one warrior go straight up the coast, and one down, in addition to our exploration to the east)

Yes I agree on these directions.

One thing I noticed about purple 2. Even though it's not a city of high priority I feel I must point out that I've heard somewhere that if you build a city directly on a resource, such as Gold, that you don't receive all the benefits of it. So we wouldn't get all the commerce from the gold as apposed to placing the city NEXT to the gold.

Originally posted by Falcon02
One thing I noticed about purple 2. Even though it's not a city of high priority I feel I must point out that I've heard somewhere that if you build a city directly on a resource, such as Gold, that you don't receive all the benefits of it. So we wouldn't get all the commerce from the gold as apposed to placing the city NEXT to the gold.

Yeah it would, but we want the city to be close to the the Flood plains. And we want it to be built on a hill. As a hill can never support more then 0,5 Citizen. But a Desert tile can support 1 citizen once irrigated and Railroaded.

Thanks. I understand now. I'm Still wary of building a city on that gold, but I guess it's worth the lose in commerce.

One question though, why are we intentionally limiting the city sizes? My philosophy has always been to try and produce the biggest most productive cities possible.

General question - is it my imagination, or when an AI comes in contact with you, his settling goals change such that he comes RIGHT AT YOU? In games with early contact, I notice the AI seems to beeline cities right at you, even when he's got a ton of great land right around his capital. Yet in games where contact is delayed, he has made no motion whatsoever to settle in my direction. This could be a 1.17 thing, and though I've not tested it, this pattern has appeared ALOT. **IF** true, we MAY just not want to force contact with a civ that we infer may be just east of us. (While we have so few cities)

As far as i know ,this has everything to do with the map.As long as you don't give youre maps to the ai ,they wont come settling next to you.But when they know where you are and how youre territory look's like ,well then expect a lot of enemy city's builded around youre civ (to contain you) in no time.

i don't think it's your imagination, charis. in most of the games i've played, the AI, who has to know where you start because it's part of the game, builds to limit the humans growth. like you say, regardless of all their other opportunities, they will build towards the human player.

I have to agree with Cyc,

It seems true that whenever the AI knows the whereabouts of your civ, it tends to build towards it. Even when you haven't made contact yet with that other civ, it seems that they, for some reason know where you are, strange!?! The AI will always try to corner you. It's part of a general AI strategy, i think. this way of expanding by the AI really iritates.

But on the other hand, aren't we doing the same, when we get the chance??!?

I also think that this Yellow 2 idea is good for a third city.

yellow 2 looks nice.

As Grey Fox was conducting a diplomatic mission to the Roman capital of Rome, I played the game this session. In my opinion,it went extremely well. Here is the save:

Would someone else please post a screenshot? My software is not up to par....

In case anyone cares what happened, we founded two cities, explored alot traded for every tech known to man and discovered the Romans, the US, the Aztecs, the Babylonians and the Greeks.

Here's our current situation.
This is going to get huge. We need to make smaller maps so we can see everything in a single space. Do we have an map-maker among our citizens? We'll really need one!

Here is a screenshot. No editing yet or anything.

Originally posted by Pggar
This is going to get huge.
Going to get huge. It looks like where surrounded by other Civs.

My merchants have come to me expressing interest in those dyes, gold and iron east of Khatovar, and just north-east of that warrior. It would greatly add to our trade stockpile, as well as deny that iron. There are even spices to the south-east of Fox Nest (as well as a lot of gold squares) and incense to the south, but very close to Rome. My traders feel more comfortable closer to our nation, as it would reduce looting from neighboring nations. (i.e., corruption).

Our traders would also like, if possible, the layout of the terrain of other nations. We could trade our spices for gold and their maps once we have roads and/or harbors connencting them.

And, I must say, the palace looks splendid, though the roads are a little rugged.

Originally posted by russia1292000

Going to get huge. It looks like where surrounded by other Civs.

I think our nation should claim all of the immediate resources it can find. Without strat. res., other civs will be stuck in the dark ages.

This is mostly a learning thing for me, and I wanted to play in photoshop.

My thoughts was having our main big cities inside the pink area, where the rim cities wound be on the hills and protected by mountains. The only downsides I can see to that is that any foes that manage to reach our cities would be protected by the mountains and then hard to kill.

My other idea was to build our next city near spot A, so we could get iron much sooner, and expanding our great borders to the soon to be gone Americans.

Do we have an map-maker among our citizens? We'll really need one!
As I don't think we do, I apply for that position.

Our land of destiny is looking better and better. Very nice settlement land to the west and northeast of Shailonegha (coast). We're almost guaranteed to have oil in the hearland and likely to have uranium as well. It looks like America is going to be our first subject nation so I'd place the next city in a position to assist our assault on them. 3 tiles north east of Croxis' "B" marker, on the river looks promising.

Originally posted by Chieftess


I think our nation should claim all of the resources it can find. Without strat. res., other civs will be stuck in the dark ages.

Thats allmost imposable to do with new recorces being discovered

Your proposed area is fine. I'm not sure I'd rule out the South position by the fish & horses nor the spices there too, given time.

If we were to go along the lines of this area's expansion & target the Americans, I am wondering if a Palace jump might be in order... (no offense, GF, we could rename the new city to Fox's Next). May be something to keep in the back of the mind.

Edit: I only mention this now because if we were to do a palace jump, we may not wish to develop our capital with buildings.

Originally posted by Shaitan
Our land of destiny is looking better and better. Very nice settlement land to the west and northeast of Shailonegha (coast). We're almost guaranteed to have oil in the hearland and likely to have uranium as well. It looks like America is going to be our first subject nation so I'd place the next city in a position to assist our assault on them. 3 tiles north east of Croxis' "B" marker, on the river looks promising.

The truly beautiful thing is that there is already a settler one square away from that spot. We stopped before settling, because I wanted to leave it open to discussion, but the spot you mentioned is where I would place it.

Well... I can be either the historian or cartographer in here, as well as airborne/seaborne high commander...

I say we go for the wheat spot first. With all that food it could be a good settler and worker factory.

How can I download the game to see what is going on.:nuke:

mr. president:
we urgently need to discuss the naming of our first an our soon to come second province.
we did not need a name so far, but since we are about to found the 5th city, the next one will then give us a new province for a governor.

Here is the save for the last session. We played 20 turns, during which, we built 3 temples, another settler who is almost in place, and we met five more civs. More to come later....

Again, will someone else post a screen shot?

Temples were completed in Shailenogha, PDX, and Fox's Nest. Shailenogha's borders have already expanded, allowing it access to fish so it can grow beyond size 2. It is currently building a barracks, but this may be switched to a harbor if we research map making in time. PDX also poprushed a temple, though its borders have not quite expanded yet. It is now working on a barracks to act as both a hospital for our troops and to build new ones. Fox's nest did not rush its temple, though its borders expanded again anyway. It is now working on the Pyramids, which will be switched to the Great Library later.


A settler is on the spot where Charis requested Iron Hills be located, but we stopped, as another member of the cabinet thought to move it one square SE. Khatovar will complete a settler on the next turn.

Here's our current situation


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Phoen1400bc1.gif

My diplomatic journey took more time then expected, but now I'm back.

I do not know what has been discussed, or if we have any Iron yet. But on the maps I can see Iron to the Southeast. The next city needs to be near these deposits of Iron.

I can also see now that dense building is no more as needed as it was before.

I will now take some time and read all of that I have missed.

Man, horrible graphics.

Whoever did that screenshot must have 8-bit color or set their monitor's dither on overload. :[

i think the screen shot was taken with the less yellow modpack

The people have spoken. An overwhelming majority of Phoenatics cry out for a war of expansion against America. Directives have been given to the Military Department to plan for an imminent campaign. We will declare war within 15 game turns. An earlier declaration will be made if troop goals (6 Immortals) are reached sooner. Please coordinate with the Military and Domestic departments for proper build-up and planning.

We are sending Veteran's I hope???????

Originally posted by marshalljames
We are sending Veteran's I hope???????
That would be ideal but such things are the province of the military department. If they aren't veterans when they go out, they will be very quickly.

Or Cannon Foder,luckily at this level the AI is slow to build barracks also.So.........

Reply to marshalljames posted to the military thread. Let's keep troop talk out of the Presidential thread.

Ok, I downloaded the saved game data, opened it into civ with winzip 8.0 and tryed to load it. The data was there but when I loaded it, it staled at about 50% complete. I have the UK version of civ and Windows XP if it makes much difference. Anyone know whats wrong.:cry:

We built two cities this turn. Pherris and Civinator (he can change the name to whatever later...)

After we had played 10 Turns, babylon demanded our territory map. We said NO and they declared war.

We have discussed if we should Ally with the Greec againts the Babylons but everything is still being planned. Check out the Military thread for more info later...

We can see the Eastern coast.
http://medieteknik.bth.se/frst01/america.jpg

We are at war with the Babylonians, they are the blue ones far far down south...
http://medieteknik.bth.se/frst01/theMap.jpg

Downloading the game and playing it to see what's going to happen is a major violation of the code of rules of the democracy game! If discovered, the person will be banned from the forum, and from the game.

Mr. President,

On not caving in to the Babylonians...

:goodjob:

On choosing a city site not even conceived or discussed in any thread, and countermanding a joint decision (Pherris)

:spank:

The spank is procedural, not tactical. City placement is NOT a decision that needs to be made quickly under the gun, but in open forum. Whether the river spot was wrong or right isn't the point. Eyrei ok'd the call, so it's not an impeachment offense :P
But he and Falcon02 did gave the discussed spot (tnx Falcon!)
(Eyrei's answer of what to build there of warrior then temple and only then barracks also made my eyes pop out :P - tnx Justus)

If I can't give input via forums, and I can't give it via appointing a deputy for chat, I don't know what else I can do. Perhaps the need for the other spot was missed due the noise in our thread,
and we should come up with a better plan for making cabinet recommendations clear in the forum. (Especially if you missed the "move worker on iron one square SE, NOT South" comment)

In any case... good turn and wishes for continued success in our upcoming crisis against the Babylonians (and Americans).

General Charis

Originally posted by Charis
(Eyrei's answer of what to build there of warrior then temple and only then barracks also made my eyes pop out :P - tnx Justus)

If I can't give input via forums, and I can't give it via appointing a deputy for chat, I don't know what else I can do. Perhaps the need for the other spot was missed due the noise in our thread,
and we should come up with a better plan for making cabinet recommendations clear in the forum. (Especially if you missed the "move worker on iron one square SE, NOT South" comment)

In any case... good turn and wishes for continued success in our upcoming crisis against the Babylonians (and Americans).

General Charis

I withdrew my recommendation of a temple when I was informed that the cultural borders had intersected to contain the iron.

There has been a lot of noise in the military departments thread, but discussions about city placement should take place in the domestic department's thread, anyway.

Is there any time that you can make the chat, Charis? Obviously, we are not communicating well on the forums (that goes for the entire government, not just Charis and I), and the fact that unpredictable things do happen during the game, sometimes too soon in the session to stop without bringing the game to a halt, makes the presence of the military leader, as well as the other leaders, very important. If this cannot be done, we will need to develop a definate system by which we codify actual decisions, in a way that is accessible to the president. Currently there is quite a bit of chaos, and I think this has contributed to some of the citizens not frequenting this forum as often as we would like.:(

I agree that there is a lot of discussion on the forums, which seems good, but also makes it hard to get clarity. This was the first Chat I was able to attend, and I see how hectic it is. (I thought it was difficult trying to play with my wife talking in the background) ;)
Also, there are several discussions going on the various threads, which is what they are for, but sometimes takes a while to figure out who said what when. Maybe we could have a seperate thread for Upcoming Turn Cabinet discussion, make it sticky, and have the cabinet post their conclusions/decisions after they have been hashed out in their department threads. Any citizens who wanted to question/critique/discuss these decisons could go back to the department thread and reply to that leader, but this thread would be basically a summary of what the plans are for the upcoming turn.
I don't know how easy/hard it would be to enforce this, and I don't want to make extra work for the leaders who are already posting on their own threads, but this might at least get everyone on the same page.

That sounds about right Justus, as to what might help alot.
(If easy to set up)

I'm trying to work that type of filtering in my own thread too, asking for discussion of greater length and vocalness in a non-sticky thread, and trying to limit chat in the sticky one. Having a "key points for next turn" thread continuing the filter process would be good.

I wish I could make more chats, but am not likely too. That might put the Mrs over the edge :P Again thanks to Falcon for not only being there but being vocal about the mil dept view.

We'll work it out -- everyone is doing fine and trying to do what they think is best, which is a very good sign. With that... the rest is just logistics :P

Charis

or what about having 2 threads for each department:
a internal and a offical thread. the internal thread is postable ONLY for department members (official members! to be appointed by the cabinet or voted by the citizens). the official thread is postable by all citizens for discussion of information in the internal thread.

Originally posted by disorganizer
or what about having 2 threads for each department:
a internal and a offical thread. the internal thread is postable ONLY for department members (official members! to be appointed by the cabinet or voted by the citizens). the official thread is postable by all citizens for discussion of information in the internal thread. That's exactly what I suggested when the Mil thread got pretty messy. :goodjob:

It seems this thread has gone the way of addressing additional threads. Funny, I had just discussed this in the Domestic Department thread. It deals with city placement and I thought that was the appropriate place for it. I am in agreement for more specific "train of thought" threads. This will help us focus more directly on the matters at hand in this sea of information. Yes, we have the major stickies for the department heads, but i believe we should start "filing " our thoughts in a cohesive manner. Therefore i approve of the addition of more specific threads addressing specific topics for the use of all citizens of Phoenatica.

we should even think about a "clean up" of the old threads or maybe unsticky them for archiving purposes and implement new, sticky, clean ones!

so we are still working on the design of our organization. good.
must we vote about it?

The DOC would like to file it's first Formal Complaint against the first Formal Cabinet Vote, as the structure of the vote is lacking in clarity. Cabinet votes will be recorded in our history as steps toward the shaping of our great nation. Vague polling with undefined parameters is not a viable means of collecting the thoughts of the Cabinet. Please place an order to have this vote cease and desist immeadiately.

The resolution has been expanded on to improve clarity, and the vote should continue without pause. I will agree to extend the deadline for the vote until Sunday at midnight GMT to give ample time for a review by all cabinet members of the information.

i don't know if u wer naming the city after me but my name is Civanator, not Civinator. i'm not being picky or anything, but it just kinda annoys me to see my name spelled wrong all the time.

Oh, sorry about that.

But the name was only a placeholder for whatever you wanted to call the city.

So feel free to suggest a name.

Originally posted by Grey Fox
After we had played 10 Turns, babylon demanded our territory map. We said NO and they declared war. [/COLOR] [/B]




Grey Fox What Happended To Voting On Wars And Decisions. Did the Diplomatic Avisor Agreee. How About The Military Adviser. When was the vote.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

Originally posted by russia1292000





Grey Fox What Happended To Voting On Wars And Decisions. Did the Diplomatic Avisor Agreee. How About The Military Adviser. When was the vote.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

This is impossible to do. Since we do not save and reload, and this happened between turns, there was no way to vote on it. Also, the foreign policy is outlined in the foreing affairs thread and states that we will not give in to demands unless seriously outmatched. Given that the Babylonians are on the other side of the continent, they are not going to crush us in a few turns. In fact, we may never see combat.

[list=1]
please stop spamming with !'s
we did not declare war, they did
it was decided in the threads not to give maps to the ai
how could we have voted on an action the ai took?
[/list=1]

It dosen't matter if action is seen it's the principle the president feels that a map is worth war.

Originally posted by russia1292000
It dosen't matter if action is seen it's the principle the president feels that a map is worth war.

I think almost the entire populace feels this was the right decision. I am almost certain the entire cabinet feels this way. Post a poll if you like, but it is kind of pointless.

No map is worth war

It is the position of the Department of Foreign Affairs that the Executive branch was correct in refusing the extorsion attempt from Babylon. As specified in the Foreign Policy the only time we should cave in to extorsion is when it is likely the extorsionist will declare war if refused AND we are unable to protect ourselves from them. In this case, Babylon is not in a position to threaten us so the President was following the Foreign Policy when he refused Babylon's demands.

Our foreign policy is to not cave in to threats, whatsoever.

This game is kindof a Role-Play of a real nation, and we decided in advance how to act. As Shaitan said, I followed our policy.

The Department of Trade also agree's with the president's decision to not give in to Babalyon's threats.

They are half the world apart in the ancient era. Their army would take 20-30 turns to reach us. However, if we gave in on the map, it would assuredly be sold to our nearest neighbors, something that would definately be a mistake and a risk to our national security.

I believe that the Foriegn Affairs office had posted their standing instructions and that the President followed them to the letter.

Bill
Trade Leader

about the name can the city be named Civanatoria?

Also, will someone please tell me what we are researching cause i made some changes to my civ3mod and i don't really wanna go through and change it back. thanks

****UPDATE****

Our empire has become the target of an international conspiracy most likely started by the babylonians, we are at war with the following civs in the order they declared war:

1)Babylon
2)Iroquois
3)Aztecs
4)Americans
5)Greeks
6)Romans

The prophet talked about great wars and great victories, our soldiers were to become Immortal and our people would be celebrating the Golden Ages. These times are close.

The Babylonians started it all, with them followed almost every nation known to us Phoeneticans.

This is the sign from our God, this is the moment when we will become immortal and pure this world from those who are not worthy!

This is our destiny....

Warriors can be upgraded in 1 turns. The Great War has started and we will be the victors!

Download the Soundtrack to our war here ( :D ): Whispers from the Great War (http://medieteknik.bth.se/frst01/whispers.zip) (Made by me, 5,4 Mb)

http://medieteknik.bth.se/frst01/war.jpg

whoa, we';ve certainly got our work cut out for us, I suggest heavy defensive &offensive construction

Tonights Log-File:

changed after some problems with the old file, it was simply too hard to read!

*AHHHHHHHH*

*Benjamin climbs into the bunker he's secretly built under the Palace in Fox Nest*


Now that I'm safe I'll talk. Geez, the world really does hate us, literally. This is a bit rediculas, although I've played games like this, and I build defenses for a while, then go on the offense. Hopefully this will work. Our fearless Presidente will get us through this internation crisis.

*Benjamin holds a WLTP day in the bunker*

Anyone want to join me in my bunker?


BTW, I've been busy for the past few days, and thus haven't been to chats and the board.

Argh matey, argh!

Was about time to discover this thread, since I started reading the older threads and I sorta missed some info...sorry 'bout that.

War? They're ganging up on us? That's good, they'll be begging us for peace, and then we'll extort them some of their properties.

LET'S TAKE THEIR DAUGHTERS!!

Ehrm...negate that order.:borg:

Originally posted by russia1292000
No map is worth war

Perhaps you're right. Personally I don't give crap 'bout the map, but the AI thinks it's worth something. So we could sell it for something we like, like, gold?

And it's in the manifesto. So.

I though the cabinet had experience at Monarch level??It's been my experience that civ's that are not next to you who demand tribute know you are week.WE ARE WEEK Warriors as defence??what a joke.were all talking about warring when we can't really defend the territory we already have.
Now all known civ's are at war with us?All this for a lousy map(and a map of nothing to boot).Serious mistake.

maybe future cabinets should have to post a winning game at monarch level to run for cabinet.

Originally posted by marshalljames
I though the cabinet had experience at Monarch level??It's been my experience that civ's that are not next to you who demand tribute know you are week.WE ARE WEEK Warriors as defence??what a joke.were all talking about warring when we can't really defend the territory we already have.
Now all known civ's are at war with us?All this for a lousy map(and a map of nothing to boot).Serious mistake.
Although the situation is getting interesting, it's certainly not dire. We are also not weak. We are a short turn away from the most dominant unit in the ancient age. Our absolute numbers are not weak either. AI civs make demands and declare war based on their agressiveness. Babylon, Germany and the Zulus will always demand things and declare war at the drop of a hat - relative strength has little to do with it.

Yes, we are at war over a map but it was not just a map. It was Phoenatica refusing to cave in to the demands of an alien civilization. It was Phoenatica protecting its resources and security by not allowing such delicate information to be possessed by an adversarial nation. It was also Phoenatica refusing to be bullied into a long string of ever increasing demands. You can be very sure that Babylon would not have stopped at a map.

Originally posted by marshalljames
maybe future cabinets should have to post a winning game at monarch level to run for cabinet.
I don't have any save games but you can read about my last game here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17648&highlight=highlander+tales). That was me playing out the instructions from an audience. I'm doing the same thing again with excellent success - see my signature for the link. Both Charis and Grey Fox are playing in a SG with me (link also in my signature) where we have dominated based on our superior strategy and tactics. That game is wrapping up now and we can choose any victory we wish (except for UN).

I don't have personal knowledge of the rest of the cabinet but I know them all at least in passing because they are profligate posters on the Forum and every one of them has given advice or tactics that I have added to my own armory.

EDIT - Arg! My apologies, I did not realize I was still on the Presidential thread here (too many windows open trying to get a handle on the Great War :)). Sorry for the non-thread posts. Duck - you can delete these if you like.

When does Fox's term run out?

Originally posted by russia1292000
When does Fox's term run out?
The same time as the rest of the cabinet and all ancillary elected officials. Read the Constitution to see when this is. That's the same thread that will tell you when the current terms run out. The one that all citizens are supposed to have read. Especially those citizens who are ridiculously vocal against certain officials for no apparent reason other than to irritate people.

We have been throwing around roughtly what we would be willing to get for an alliance. I almost feel it would be worth having the Pres. just establish an embassy (esp. with Egypt) and then repost the save. Because I feel that we're at least going to investigate it when we start back up. And if we see EXACTLY what they want to offer. I feel that once we can see an exact cost, and play with the offer then that will have to go back up for for discussion in the forum.

I feel that we need the ENTIRE country's view on this, and we should at least concider what I propose.

Originally posted by Falcon02
We have been throwing around roughtly what we would be willing to get for an alliance. I almost feel it would be worth having the Pres. just establish an embassy (esp. with Egypt) and then repost the save. Because I feel that we're at least going to investigate it when we start back up. And if we see EXACTLY what they want to offer. I feel that once we can see an exact cost, and play with the offer then that will have to go back up for for discussion in the forum.

I feel that we need the ENTIRE country's view on this, and we should at least concider what I propose.

I was thinking the exact same thing on my way home from work. I second this motion. There is no reason to handicap ourselves. The establishment of that embassy is definately going to happen. If we don't discuss it before the turn, the turn should only last long enough to establish it.

The DOC would agree with this action within a saved game, as it would be a forward action, as opposed to a reload, and we wouldn't actually be moving into the next turn. Plus the amount of info gained would be unmeasurable in terms of helping us make a current decision. We would also have to save any actions taken while doing anything such as this.

NOTICE: You may delete this thread if this is clutter, but I feel I have to post right now and get this over with.

I would have been asking right now for someone to post a screenshot of the situation, but I can already see that Our Illustrious President has responded to that necessity beforehand.:goodjob:

Now Russia, pardon my French, but you are a Doofus. You come off like a n00b, you seem uneducated about the situation, and if even half of the people like you informed yourself enough to just look at the map you would understand that Babylon in no way is in any position to either extort or attack us.

NO ONE in here is concerned about their threat in this thread as much as you are, as far as I know about any of these threads and the responses therein,

Let me add: You're a STINKIN' PINKO!! Don't agitate or peacemonger unless you have good reason, and CERTAINLY to not propose some notion of a "coup d' etat" ousting Mr. Fox from power before the appointed time of his reelection. I doubt you yourself could do the job better.

Now go on'n git!

Originally posted by Cyc
The DOC would agree with this action within a saved game, as it would be a forward action, as opposed to a reload, and we wouldn't actually be moving into the next turn. Plus the amount of info gained would be unmeasurable in terms of helping us make a current decision. We would also have to save any actions taken while doing anything such as this.

I propose an cabinet vote on this, as well as one delaying our next turn one day to allow for more intense planning.

Originally posted by eyrei


I propose an cabinet vote on this, as well as one delaying our next turn one day to allow for more intense planning.

I concur with this approach. It is only prudent to explore our real options.

Bill
Trade Leader

I wont be her until the 21st so i have to ask Pggar to take over for me. I'm posting in here cause everyone is always reading here.

With the direct support of Gray Fox and Eyrei along with the other cabinet members who posted their support in the thread I established an Embassy in Egypt to give us more information to talk about since we need it to be prepared for the next turn chat.

Here is the save...

phoenatica, 875_BC.zip (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/phoenatica,_875_BC.zip)

Also, Eyrei and Gray Fox decided to delay the turn chat an extra day to give us extra planning time during this critical time. So the turn chat will occur on Monday, NOT tommarrow.

You mean Sunday right?

The game were supposed to be played now on Saturday, but we moved the time to Sunday instead.

yes, I meant Sunday, sorry about that, as I was writing a post to the Great War thread (just a minute ago) I realized my mistake.

Originally posted by Grey Fox
You mean Sunday right?

The game were supposed to be played now on Saturday, but we moved the time to Sunday instead.

Perhaps we can post here what time the turns will be played. I honestly have no idea when these times and decisions are being made.

Thanks!

Bill
Trade Leader

The times are usually posted in the Turn Chat thread.

But the Game will start this Sunday at 22-23 GMT.

Is there a spot where the newest save can be downloaded? If not... shouldn't there be?

I agree. I think that there should be a sticky thread to download the newest saved game from. Also old messages should be deleated if there is a way (I is getting annoying:mad:). I think that the 'deleted' threads and messages could be stored in second threads from that department- military, old military (2 seperate threads- bet you cannot guess where the old threads go:lol:).

Originally posted by Phoenix
I agree. I think that there should be a sticky thread to download the newest saved game from.

The Newest save game can be found in THIS thread.

By a narrow margin the people of Phoenatica have decided to NOT ally with Egypt. The Phoenaticans want a small deal with g/t with Egypt to hopefully keep them out of the current conflict (this would be the responsibility of the Trade Department). We will not make peace with Babylon at this point. The general feeling is that we will never pay for peace with Babylon.

General war directive - peace should be sought with all enemy civilizations except America but we will not pay for peace with any at this point.

we only got 1 turn down i'm outta time have some1 else tell you about it.

Dear Mr. President,

the Census Office notices a slight rumor of Civil Disorder here in the Forum. The evidence is found in missing Chatlogs, missing Screenshots etc.

Since most of our Citizens can NOT attend the chat, the Chatlog is the MOST IMPORTANT thing we have to understand what happened. I urge you to have the logs posted directy after the chat.

I also hope you take things into your hands to gather our forces and reorganize our empire since all seems to be kind of chotic at the moment.

I know we are at war, but chaos and anarchy dont help us winning this challenge.

It seems like some Babylonian assasins slipped in some Poison in my wine.

It didn't kill my strong hearted body, but it made me slip into a slight coma, and made me forget things.

A screenshot however is not necessary as no changes has been made.

And is the chatlog any important? 1 Turn was played and most of the chat log is discussions on who can play and such... (In this case)

A screenshot however is not necessary as no changes has been made.

ther are those immortals;) that's about it some minor millitary movements. that's all.

the chatlog would nevertheless be interesting to understand what exactly happened. maybe we really should implement a bot in the chat, even if just for logging purposes.

- 7 Turns played.
- We are in a Golden Age.
- One American city razed. (A new one, Houston)
- The American Horse will be Pillaged in 2 turns.
- The Egyptians Built a city close to the spot we wanted (reason why we stopped earlier)
- 5 or 6 Immortals on their way to Philadelphia. Going Southwards so no river will be in the way.
- We lost two workers to a Barbarian warrior, He was invisible I say... :( (Must have used our roads...)
- We lost a total of 2 Immortals this round. But we killed more units then we lost.
- We get 22 Gold Per turn!

[Screenshot]
http://medieteknik.bth.se/frst01/map16.jpg

Downloading the game and playing it to see what's going to happen is a major violation of the code of rules of the democracy game! If discovered, the person will be banned from the forum, and from the game.

sorry i wasn't there (sick) :vomit:

General directives are to procure peace with all civilizations except America. Current opinion is we will not pay for peace. Try to get peace with civs before they have been at war with us for 20 turns - this way they will get a hit on their reputation for breaking their alliances. Currently half of the Dominos will not talk to us and the other half demand huge reparations. This should change once an American city falls to Phoenatica.

The conquest plans posted in the war thread are perfectly acceptable to the Foreign Affairs dept. The original objective for this stage of the conquest was 3 cities. Once those are procured it is permisible to sue for peace with America so long as we do not pay. This is with the understanding that we will be attacking them again when the Peace Treaty expires.

11 more turns has been played.

Some Highlights:

- The Great Library is now ours!
- We captured both Philadelphia and New York.
- We got 2 Elite Spearmen. And at least 2 Elite Immortals.
- We are on the way to capture Washington.
- We founded the city Falcon's Haven.
- Our Iron got pillaged, which can turn out to be good as we have Iron in New York. I have an Idea about whipping Barracks in Philadelphia, and make that city an Immortal upgrader.
- We bought the world map when we thought we would loose our gold to the 25 barbarian horses that attacked our city. And the Egyptians declared war against us the turn after that! Suckers!
- We are in war with everyone we know.

http://medieteknik.bth.se/frst01/map.JPG
http://medieteknik.bth.se/frst01/worldmap.JPG

Read more about the Whip of barracks in Philadelphia Here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20649)

Downloading the game and playing it to see what's going to happen is a major violation of the code of rules of the democracy game! If discovered, the person will be banned from the forum, and from the game.

Heh, there's still one more Civ we don't know. I wonder who, and on what island it is on. Wern't we supposed to be on continents? The game must of screwed up and given us a pangea instead. :(

Just to let anyone know, if any city is founded near gold, I already have it called and it is to be named El Dorado.

The babs have one city in an AWSOME location. I forget the name, but it is the most northernly bab city and has about 9 tiles with game on it. We must capture it :).

we need to beef up our defenses in The Nest, Civatoria and Falcon's heaven, all of these cities have enemies around them and need defense! Then we should try to make peace with a couple of the domino's (Iroquois and aztecs, or romans and the egyptians)

Bad things first.

We lost Falcon's Haven!
Mainreason was that it was poorly defended against the inveders. Both the Egyptians and Aztecs attacked. We lost 2 Spearmen and 1 Warrior in the city. The city got razed by an Aztec Jaguar warrior.

Good News!

We built a new city in the northwest, by the red spot on the following picture:

The questionmark is the Horse. It should probably be used by the Blue city.
http://medieteknik.bth.se/frst01/nw.jpg

We auto razed two american cities, one they just built and Houston that was positioned in our northwest area.

When attacking the newly built american city a Leader Emerged!

We also captured Washington. Without losses.

We got almost all techs in the first era except Republic, and we got Monotheism and Enginering in the Middle Ages.

The current map:
http://medieteknik.bth.se/frst01/leMap.jpg


I don't see it as part of our plans to make peace with the Americans, and I will hold a Speach about it some day soon!

But if the people want peace, then peace they will have.

Read the speach HERE http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20800

We should make peace with all of our enemies except for:

1) Zulu: There weaker then us.
2) Egypt: They will probably ask for too much to make this a viable treaty for us.

And we should see just how much america is willing to offer as tribute, if its enough, make peace and prepair to invade them again at a later date.

CENSUS OFFICE
The Census Office wants to remember all Citizens to re-register in the new official registry http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20720 !!!

CHAT OFFICE
The Chat Office wants to remember the Department Leaders to announce their chat-representatives in the thread http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20797 until 1 hour before the chat. They will NOT be voiced if not nominated in the thread!

Poll results show a large majority favor peace with Babylon. A plurality approves paying for peace. An amount of 40 gold per existing warrior should be held back (upgrade monies) and per turn income must remain large enough to upgrade the warriors being built (20 gpt for one warrior to immortal upgrade every two turns). The remainder of the treasury and income may be used to procure peace with Babylon.

Note that as the Department of Foreign Affairs does not have a budget this order is subject to veto by the Domestic Department. Foreign Affairs recommends against a veto as this plan was the polled will of the people.

Originally posted by Shaitan
Poll results show a large majority favor peace with Babylon. A plurality approves paying for peace. An amount of 40 gold per existing warrior should be held back (upgrade monies) and per turn income must remain large enough to upgrade the warriors being built (20 gpt for one warrior to immortal upgrade every two turns). The remainder of the treasury and income may be used to procure peace with Babylon.

Note that as the Department of Foreign Affairs does not have a budget this order is subject to veto by the Domestic Department. Foreign Affairs recommends against a veto as this plan was the polled will of the people.

I certainly do not intend to veto this budget, though I would like to amend it slightly. I do not believe we have too many warriors right now, so I do not think the current treasury should be withheld from diplomacy in any way. An extra peace treaty is most certainly worth the cost of a couple immediate upgrades. The budget will remain at 100% taxes, so these warriors will be upgraded pretty quickly anyway. This budget will be in effect until we have upgraded all of our warriors, have stopped producing warriors, and have discovered education. At this point, we will also probably be switching governments, so the budget will be comletely reassessed.

Originally posted by eyrei


I certainly do not intend to veto this budget, though I would like to amend it slightly. I do not believe we have too many warriors right now, so I do not think the current treasury should be withheld from diplomacy in any way. An extra peace treaty is most certainly worth the cost of a couple immediate upgrades. The budget will remain at 100% taxes, so these warriors will be upgraded pretty quickly anyway. This budget will be in effect until we have upgraded all of our warriors, have stopped producing warriors, and have discovered education. At this point, we will also probably be switching governments, so the budget will be comletely reassessed.
That's definitely workable. The key sentiment in the poll was to not sacrifice our immortal upgrades. If this can be done with income instead of treasury that's quite acceptable.

Arghh. I just read the history department thread and realized we have 10 warriors. Since these all need to be upgraded, a significant amount of the treasury needs to be available to the military department. However, I do still think that some gold could be spent on peace treaties, where a tech is not quite enough.

I am curious why we do not have the two parts of our empire connected by road. Those captured American cities need luxuries, ASAP. Fox's Nest has the production to build immortals quickly, and should have access to iron. The same can be said of PDX.

Well, we only have 3 workers and they only got the time to reconnect the iron next turn.

Pursue peace as outlined in SirPleb's poll (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20821) by trading techs for peace.

Due to the revelation that significant treasury will be needed for Immortal upgrades, the original instructions for peace with Babylon should be followed. That instruction is repeated here to keep the turn instructions in one place:

Originally posted by Shaitan
Poll results show a large majority favor peace with Babylon. A plurality approves paying for peace. An amount of 40 gold per existing warrior should be held back (upgrade monies) and per turn income must remain large enough to upgrade the warriors being built (20 gpt for one warrior to immortal upgrade every two turns). The remainder of the treasury and income may be used to procure peace with Babylon.

Can someone please zip and post the civ3mod that we're using for the game? i forgot to back mine up.
Thanx in advance.

The only problem with the old mandate is that we do not have enough money to upgrade all of our warriors as it is. We have 308 gold, and would need 400 to complete these upgrades. Seeing as we will make enough to upgrade one every two turns anyway, I suggest that up to one half of the current treasury (154 gold) be allotted for peace deals. This should be sufficient with the addition of the technology, monarchy.

One problem is that our Gold/turn income will decrease once our golden age is over.

It sounds like our cash situation isn't as rosy as first thought. At least it's not rosy enough to get our Immortals as well as pay off Babylon. Since it looks like we cannot meet the requirements of the poll we will hold off on pursuing peace with Babylon for now. Go ahead and pursue the peace for tech options with the other Dominos.

This round was awesome! (we played 20 turns or so)

We took, let's see if I can remember (all americas cities, except 1 new, "Houston" again! argh... but it will fall during the next couple of turns). We took:

- Boston
- Chicago
- Miami
- Atlanta
- Seattle
- New York (we lost it and took it back...).
- San Francisco

I guess that's was the American cities (I probably forgot one...)

And we "Auto-Razed" 2 Egyptian cities, and we took a Chinese city.


We are 5 turns from getting the "Heroic Epic" in the capital, thanks to a victory by the army.

We also made peace with many nations, but the most of them signed the alliaces against us again.

I havn't got time to post a screenshot as I'm about to go to bed, so someone else could do that.

And remember, vote for me for President (always wanted to say that :D).

Downloading the game and playing it to see what's going to happen is a major violation of the code of rules of the democracy game! If discovered, the person will be banned from the forom, and from the game.

SUPA-FINE! :goodjob:

Awesome! That shoud be enough for a We Love the King Day right there! Anyway, good to see the Heroic Epic being written, that should lead to even more great leaders soon. Our enemies will learn the price of their treachery!!

The General, normally a hard quiet man, is thought to have been heard weeping for joy on hearing of the heroic epic of the immortal army...

Way to go Mr. President!! :hammer:
And a big round of applause for chat partipants too :goodjob:

(If nothing else, I feel less bad for coming up with more specific instructions on battle, but I knew you were in tune with the military department's strategy and were just fine on the tactics for this campaign of immortals vs dogs)

General Charis

PS to Daarraa -- wow, excellent work in the history channel! Didn't want to sully the thread with comments, but really, good job.

All department heads please vote on the VP Position Band-Aide Measure. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21178)

Here's the latest map!

10 more turns.

What happened.

- America is destroyed.
- We built the Heroic Epic.
- We built 2 more cities, Port Gisnod and (Need a Name).
- We must have killed 3 times, or more, the number of units then we lost this turn. Our stronghold of 3 elite immortals in Macao (our most southern city), killed more then 20 units when defending. (And they are still alive!).
- Pi-Ramsesses was Auto razed.
- We have about 25 Immortals!
- We got feodalism, the bad part is: So did the AI!

http://medieteknik.bth.se/frst01/worldmap.jpg

This is the land area I think we should claim:
http://medieteknik.bth.se/frst01/temp.JPG

Here is the F11 screen:
http://medieteknik.bth.se/frst01/cities.jpg

arrgh!

Oops, forgot the save... here it is.

Downloading the game and playing it to see what's going to happen is a major violation of the code of rules of the democracy game! If discovered, the person will be banned from the forom, and from the game.

Mr. President, please open (or close) the Cabinet Poll for the revised Constitution (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21595).

Presidential Thread - Term 2 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21696)