This thread will cover the scope of Foreign Affairs.

Foreign Policy Manifesto
1. Establish embassies as soon as possible.
2. Extort funds and/or technologies as possible.
3. Do not agree to foreign demands of extorsion. If the Military Advisor believes we are unready for war and the President believes war is likely if demands are refused, this instruction should be countermanded.
4. When the Military Advisor is ready for a campaign of agression to support our goals of Manifest Destiny, the Department of Foreign Affairs will declare war.
5. The Trade Department is cautioned to consult with the Military Department before signing trade agreements. If the trading partner is a likely target of agression it might be better to withold Phoenatican goods and avoid signing an agreement that will interfere with the military and foreign goals.
6. Similarly, the Department of Foreign Affairs will not sign Right of Passage agreements with civilizations identified by the Military Department as probable victims of agression. We will sign ROP agreements with civilizations that are not identified as targets and those targets that we do not intend to attack within the period of the ROP agreement.
7. Declaration of War will not be permitted against any civilization that we have an active treaty or trade deal with.
8. Declaration of War will not be permitted if Phoenatican forces are already present on the target's soil. The honor of Phoenatica will not be sullied by preemptive troop movements or sneak attacks.
9. The Department of Foreign Affairs will seek alliances against our victims of agression. This is both proactive and preventative. It will help to weaken our opponent and deprive them of possible allies in one fell swoop.
10. Razing of captured cities is defacto denied. If a city must be razed for political or military reasons this must be planned in advance and the Department of Foreign Affairs will hold a poll for the action.

These edicts will remain in effect until they are replaced, we reach our Manifest Destiny or the Phoenatican Immortal is outstripped on the battlefield (pikemen are in use by the target).

Comments are both welcomed and requested. If any point draws particular criticism we'll go to the polls to iron it out.

The poll results are definitive. We will play against totally random civs. As there was also decent support for including our cultural "family", we will start the game with the "Culturally linked starting locations" option.

Once again, I will go ahead and voice my opinion on diplomacy. I believe that ours should be an honorable civilization, and one that strives for peace above all else. Our participation in treaties should be carefully debated and weighted. We should not backstab our neighbors using ROP agreements, or by signing agreements we do not intend to live up to. We should avoid MPPs unless our survival depends on a continued alliance with one particular neighbor, and I hope we never find ourselves in this situation. Finally, until we are secure in our position, and sure of our military capabilities, we may have to cave to small demands from our neighbors.

I prefer that we are never the aggressor in war, when this can be managed. There are many ways to convince our enemies to attack, without staining our reputation. Once attacked, however, I expect there to be severe repurcussions for our attackers, such that they will not make the same mistake again.

The Department of Foreign Affairs welcomes Benjamin Miller as Deputy Director. If I am absent or unable to participate at key points, Ben will take charge of the department including voting, departmental decisions and setting needed polls. Welcome aboard, Ben!

Eyrei, my plans for the department echo your thoughts quite closely. With the assistance of the Deputy Director and the citizenry, I will strive to make Phoenatica a diplomatic bastion of truth, honor and justice. We will institute a policy of "Just but Fair" and treat honestly and openly with our neighbors. Should one of our opponents take advantage of our goodwill, however, the full power and authority of this office will be put to use to redeem our honor and show them the error of their ways.

There are a few times when I think we should be allowed to be the aggressor, for instance, if some civilization has 6 pieces of coal, and we have none, and they won't trade or demand 5675 gold per turn, we should be allowed to "liberate" the coal :D.

That's what "Just but Fair" is all about. If they won't play "Fair" we'll request assistance from the Military Department to enforce Justice.

Though, war cannot be our foreign policy, additionally, I would like to know the cabinet's opinion on espionage. I believe it is essential for our government to have knowledge of rivals if the cost is not too great for our empire (IE:Messing with the biggest civ on the map when he's already furious). I wish to know your opinion..

Originally posted by Shaitan
That's what "Just but Fair" is all about. If they won't play "Fair" we'll request assistance from the Military Department to enforce Justice. That's what I think too. Once we reach a certain optimal size, further expansion by conquest will not be so useful; unless we're procuring resources and luxuries or going for points.

Give us the soldiers and we'll (the military) get the job done, if 'justice' is required. :D

wouldnt it be a even greater challenge to win when not being agressive?

i would propose not to start a war until really provoked to do so, but stay able to counter-strike when provoked with a strong military.

Originally posted by Immortal
Though, war cannot be our foreign policy, additionally, I would like to know the cabinet's opinion on espionage. I believe it is essential for our government to have knowledge of rivals if the cost is not too great for our empire (IE:Messing with the biggest civ on the map when he's already furious). I wish to know your opinion..
[list=1] Protect the pride, reputation and strength of the Empire.
Assist in growing the Empire to its Manifest Destiny.
Facilitate Trade.[/list=1]
I intend to do this in the "Just but Fair" method described. This means we will treat fairly with our neighbors so long as they treat fairly with us. If a partner civ does not treat fairly with us they are an opponent. Opponents will be encouraged, coerced or extorted as needed in order to achieve the basic goals.

War is not a goal but it is almost a certainty at some point. I'd prefer not to be the warmonger but that is also a possibility, depending on the circumstances. For example, if we need a critical resource that is under the control of an opponent, this department would likely support a military campaign with that resource as the objective.

I support the use of spies for intelligence gathering only. Use of other espionage, including propaganda, does not fit well with my image of our honorable Empire.

Originally posted by disorganizer
wouldnt it be a even greater challenge to win when not being agressive?
Perhaps, but I never see the game as a win/lose thing. It's more of a regulated roll playing experience.

i would propose not to start a war until really provoked to do so, but stay able to counter-strike when provoked with a strong military.
War will be the final option but it WILL always be an option. See the stated goals in the previous post for times when the Department might concider supporting a declaration of war.

i can fully agree to the principles of your department shaitan

Originally posted by disorganizer
i can fully agree to the principles of your department shaitan
Thankyou for your support :)

There is something vital to keep in mind.

The *people* of our nation echoed a real sense of manifest destiny in choosing the Persian tradition. They did not choose to have immortals for their looks, savvy, wit, or diplomacy.

The people chose the Immortal as the deadliest *EARLY ERA* offensive unit in existence. We must not forget this fact! It would be a crime against the will of the people to neglect our tradition or our uniqueness. That die is cast, let there be no rumblings from Peaceniks now that we have made that decision. The path we WILL take, as our destiny, is greatly differenent as Persia than as Greece.

I would SUPPORT the will of the people in affirming the idea of manifest destiny. The continent on which start, is ours. Any other civilization there is *A FOE*. From the start, not when they act dishonorably. We are not warmongers in the sense that we wish to fight fight fight and conquer everyone. But... our continent is OURS, and we will have it SOONER than later. (If we're on an island to ourselves, this point is moot :D )

In choosing Persia, I believe the people are saying that war is NOT something left as a "final" option.
If anyone things we are going to avoid war, even if everyone else is peaceful, until the Middle Ages and the obsolescence of the Immortal, they fight against the express will of the people.

Respectfully,
General Charis

Good points, Charis. When we've explored a bit more of our homeland I'll set a poll to see what the people demand for our Manifest Destiny. My personal tendencies follow yours - I like a continent to myself - but I am but a servant of the people.

humble citizens are allowed to post in these threads right?? I hope so...

IMHO, we have immortals to use and we should use them. We should play to the civ we chose, we should make best use of the immortals. As a member of the War Church (:D) I believe we should definately declare war in the ancient era. Why waste the immortals??

just a little citizen's view...

Originally posted by Charis
There is something vital to keep in mind.

The *people* of our nation echoed a real sense of manifest destiny in choosing the Persian tradition. They did not choose to have immortals for their looks, savvy, wit, or diplomacy.You made a very good point. :D :lol: :goodjob: If we do not utilise our UU effectively early on, it'll certainly be a waste. And that effectiveness can only be really utilised in directly attking the enemy nations. :mwaha:

The President agrees with his Military Advisor.

The other Civilizations KNOW our culture, they KNOW our Policy. If they are trespassing on our Lands, then they WILL be punished.

These lands are precious, they are made for our people, by our God. He made it for us to use and improve. The Land is meant for us. If others are using and destroying the land they will be expelled from it, and spared if they won't force us to destroy them.

To fulfil our quest, our God has given our soldiers Imortality for a Certain time, and remember it will only be within a certain time-laps and our God cannot tell us. Because, if we do not know when, then we are not worthy...

I agree with charis. Once we get our immortals, I suggest we be a little extra trigger happy, and give the computer less mercy. Think Rome here. Rome was mean. Nobody thinks Italy is any less respectable due to their Roman history.

i just want to state that IMHO it makes no sense to me warmongering throughout the whole game. i may comply to the immortal-argument, but i would prefer a peaceful civilization afterwards!

I agree with Charis in the Anicent Era we should be more than trigger happy to expand our empire while our UU is still modern. We should (as we move into the latter Era's) become more and more peacefull.

Am TOTALLY with Charis and Russia on this, if we dont claim a big peice of the world while we have the early military advantage then we are gonna be put in a situation where we are forced into peace not by choice but by fear of destruction. Easier to find peace when you have the strongest nation on the planet than when you are a punk ass little civ on the corner of nowhere.

Kentonio

I also agree, to me that is the big advantage of the Persians, they can take a huge chunk of land, then quickly develop it into a powerhouse (industrious, and the building of many Libraries to expand our borders AND our minds!). THEN we can be peaceful, establish the PAX PERSIANA (or in this case, Pax Phoenatica!);)

I hereby give my support to the Ministry of foreign affairs and it's leader, FOR THE GLORY OF OUR EMPIRE!

However, I dont believe the early-era warpath is the way to go (me having voted to use the babylonians not the persians) I stand opposite to those of the ministry of military affairs, I believe in defensive military. I believe we should avoid all hostile conflicts unless we are provked.

The Spice Traders Guild will also support the Foreign Affairs cabinet in all matters of trade.

Originally posted by Immortal
I hereby give my support to the Ministry of foreign affairs and it's leader, FOR THE GLORY OF OUR EMPIRE!

However, I dont believe the early-era warpath is the way to go (me having voted to use the babylonians not the persians) I stand opposite to those of the ministry of military affairs, I believe in defensive military. I believe we should avoid all hostile conflicts unless we are provked.

my first thoughts were in your direction, but i got conviced that wasting the immortals just for defense would not be the right way to go. i now comply to an agressive early expansion after we can build immortals, an then make peace with all civilizations which are left from our early warmongering.

normaly i dont play this way, but i also think it seems to be the best way for the Phoenaticans to go.

It appears that the overwhelming majority of citizens favors an early agressive foreign policy utilizing the Phoenatican Immortals to their utmost. My defacto instructions for foreign affairs will be:

[Edit - the Foreign Policy manifesto was moved to the first post of this thread]

Originally posted by disorganizer


my first thoughts were in your direction, but i got conviced that wasting the immortals just for defense would not be the right way to go. i now comply to an agressive early expansion after we can build immortals, an then make peace with all civilizations which are left from our early warmongering.

normaly i dont play this way, but i also think it seems to be the best way for the persians to go.

I usually play the pacifist game myself but then again have never played the persians and would think it would be a sin to waste the early military advantage immortals have.With the goal being a large Democratic Pacifist civ later in the game.

DeputyDomesticMinister Hendrix

Originally posted by Shaitan
It appears that the overwhelming majority of citizens favors an early agressive foreign policy utilizing the Phoenatican Immortals to their utmost. My defacto instructions for foreign affairs will be:

1. Establish embassies as soon as possible.
2. Extort funds and/or technologies as possible.
3. Do not agree to foreign demands of extorsion. If the Military Advisor believes we are unready for war and the President believes war is likely if demands are refused, this instruction should be countermanded.
4. When the Military Advisor is ready for a campaign of agression to support our goals of Manifest Destiny, the Department of Foreign Affairs will declare war.
5. The Trade Department is cautioned to consult with the Military Department before signing trade agreements. If the trading partner is a likely target of agression it might be better to withold Phoenatican goods and avoid signing an agreement that will interfere with the military and foreign goals.
6. Similarly, the Department of Foreign Affairs will not sign Right of Passage agreements with civilizations identified by the Military Department as probable victims of agression. We will sign ROP agreements with civilizations that are not identified as targets and those targets that we do not intend to attack within the period of the ROP agreement.
7. Declaration of War will not be permitted against any civilization that we have an active treaty or trade deal with.
8. Declaration of War will not be permitted if Phoenatican forces are already present on the target's soil. The honor of Phoenatica will not be sullied by preemptive troop movements or sneak attacks.
9. The Department of Foreign Affairs will seek alliances against our victims of agression. This is both proactive and preventative. It will help to weaken our opponent and deprive them of possible allies in one fell swoop.

These edicts will remain in effect until they are replaced, we reach our Manifest Destiny or the Phoenatican Immortal is outstripped on the battlefield (pikemen are in use by the target).

Comments are both welcomed and requested. If any point draws particular criticism we'll go to the polls to iron it out.

I wholly support these edicts as handed down by out foreign minister, though I must caution that embassies are expensive for an ancient civilization, and it will therefore only be possible to set up a few initially. By the middle middle ages, I expect we will have embassies with almost every civ we have contacted.

Too true about your views on wasting the Immortals, I don't like war, but I'm sure the ministry will at some point have to deal with war. So for know Ill put my faith in the cabinet.

Point 10 regarding razing of captured cities was added to the Foreign Policy post.

the department of foreign affairs should insist on sending warrior(s) in the direction the barbs disappeared to. maybe we can make contact to another civilization!
they must have gone somewhere and normaly they go after our cities if no other civ is nearby

Originally posted by disorganizer
the department of foreign affairs should insist on sending warrior(s) in the direction the barbs disappeared to. maybe we can make contact to another civilization!
they must have gone somewhere and normaly they go after our cities if no other civ is nearby
Excellent point, and already done. I posted the Department's desires right after I read Eyrei's post pointing out that the barb behavior indicated a nearby civilization.

good. i see we can blindly trust our foreign-affairs department

It seems like good ideas

The Foreign Affairs ministry is proud to have made contact with Rome, The US, Aztexico, Babylon and Greece. We have good relations with all of them and have extracted the maximum amount of technology. Although, as of now The United States of America is our unofficial target for our Immortal War.

Benjamin Miller
Deputy Foreign Affairs Minister

Has the President or Military adviser agreed to this

Not yet, but I said that they were UNOFFICIALY the target because in the turn chat we thought that the US posed the greatest danger, they have the best land, they are the closest and they will impede our expansion. I was just posting the general consensus from the chat. That was not an official desicion of anything, just like Iraq is the UNOFFICIAL next target for the US to conquer in real life.

America is definitely the target identified by the Foreign Affairs Department. The Military Department (and of course the people) will need to approve hostile actions but I concur with all of Ben's statements.

i think this sould even be the next poll since we have enough time to vote for war or against. and for the opponent of course

Originally posted by disorganizer
i think this sould even be the next poll since we have enough time to vote for war or against. and for the opponent of course
Excellent idea, Disorganizer. A poll has been set up here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19754).

We've met several civilizations and the Department now has some serious decisions to make. There is already overwhelming support for a campaign against America so we won't deal with that directly - it's essentially in the hands of the Military Department at this point. What the Department has to think of is what to do to support this imminent war effort and to further our stated goals.

When we war on America we will need to gather support from other civs. This has two effects. First, we split the American defenses. Second, we prevent those civilizations from being drawn into the war on America's side. The Greeks and Romans are too far away to be a consideration. The Aztecs are likely right next to the Americans and the Babylonians are likely between the Aztecs and Romans/Greeks. I'm fairly confident of this because we started the game with culturally linked starting locations.

We need to cultivate relations with the Aztecs and Babylonians. At the first opportunity we need to set up embassies with both. Embassies are necessary for a military alliance and Right of Passage. We need to get Right of Passage agreements with both of them as soon as possible. They are not close neighbors so there is little to no risk of them using ROP to plant settlers within our domains. ROP will help to increase our standing with these civilizations and should also net us some cash. We should also give each a small gift every 10 to 15 turns. We won't get them gracious with cash gifts but we will be able to get and keep them polite.

We have comparable military numbers to all civs except the Romans, who we are superior to. This gives us an opportunity for extorsion. To do this we need a military unit near, but not in, their territory. If we don't have a military presence on their borders they will laugh at our threats.

We should make nice with Greece and America for the time being.

Recap:
Give a small gift (5 gp or so) to Babylon and Aztecia. Repeat this gift each 10 to 15 turns or immediately if they go lower than polite.
Establish embassies with Babylon and Aztecia as soon as possible.
Once embassies are established, get ROP with Babylon and Aztecia.
Move a warrior next to Rome then extort them. Rinse, repeat as necessary.
When the Military Department is ready for the campaign against America, declare war. Immediately enlist Babylon and Aztecia in military alliances against America.

A reminder - we have 14 turns left in a payment schedule to America. We will not declare war against them until this deal is completed naturally.

Feedback and criticism are welcomed. If debate becomes mired I will hold polls on the disputed items.

The Americans are indeed a top target, from the perspective of the military. Our goal is to maximize 'advantage', and Immortal vs Legionary or vs Hoplite is NOT the way to go. Now *if* we were in a position with barracks available, iron already online, and Rome not so far or not in hilly country, I would move for a very quick and very decisive now, do-or-die campaign vs Rome BEFORE they get legionaries. But as it stands now, America.

The other key reason why them is to avoid multiple fronts.If we go against any other civ, there is always the concern America will ally and we would be in a two front war. Instead, we destroy them, and strive to keep things on one front at a time.

14 turns to go before we can declare?? Ack! Be careful in the future about long agreements with incumbent targets :lol:

Actually, that'll be JUST ABOUT how long it will take to implement all that is laid out in the current military analysis, so not so bad.
We have MUCH to do to prepare in those 14 turns, much to do...

General Charis

I've posted a poll to clarify whether our citizenry wishes to fight now (maximize Immortal advantage) or later (build our infrastructure now). Please vote. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19867)

I agree with most parts of the manifesto. However, I would like to point out that I am all for declaring war when necessay to gain acess to as many of all types of luxuires and resources as possible. When someone has something we want we should not sit idle and wait for that civ to start a war on us. I agree wholeheartedly with the honesty part. We should not use the ROP-exploit, that is for cowards only. And we should not break any agreements within the 20-turn limit. Honest but agressive is my motto. :)

Poll results are conclusive. The Phoenatics demand war. Our target is America and we will declare war in 15 turns or less. An early declaration will occur if a starting troop goal of 6 immortals is readied AND we have no active deals with America.

The Trade Department and Executive Branch are hereby advised to withold per turn bargaining from deals with America.

The Military Department is advised to prepare for imminent war as noted above.

Initial goals are the acquisition of at least 3 American cities. Secondary goals are to prevent American access to iron and horses. These goals are only the initial targets - continuing goals will be debated and altered as needed.

The president has taken foriegh affairs into his own hands and the babalons are at war with us. This defeats the constitution. The cabnet is justa puppet.

Originally posted by russia1292000
The president has taken foriegh affairs into his own hands and the babalons are at war with us. This defeats the constitution. The cabnet is justa puppet.

You have got to be kidding me! Stop spamming the sticky threads with this nonsense!eek: Start your own thread if you intend to continue this!

I want to hear the Department oppinion. I already know yours.

The Department of Foreign Affairs unequivocally supports the in game decision to refuse the threats of Babylon. The President followed the Foreign Policy perfectly in this regard. As Babylon is half a continent away they pose little threat. In this case the Foreign Policy specifies to refuse extorsion attempts.

War is no bargaing method

Regarding Babylon - this is almost a fuggedaboudit. However, steps should be taken just in case. We will need an embassy with the Aztecs. If the Babylons actually start an offensive we need to get the Aztecs in a military alliance against Babylon.

The reason I'm going for the Aztecs is that they are strategically placed to actually assist us if Babylon moves forces against us.

After a few turns, Babylon should be approached for peace. No extorsion should be payed unless they are engaging us AND we are being outgunned.

War plans against America should continue as they are. Upgrade the immortals, take 3 American cities.

Foreign Policy scheming for the Great War is being discussed in the Great War thread here. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=245258&t=7370#post245258)

While establishing the Embassy I took note of all the information that it gave me about Thebes. While I'm not sure how much (if any) of this information will be useful, I am providing it just in case.

Thebes

Strategic Resources- Iron

Population - 2

Culture - 2 per turn
Expansion in 425 turns
150/1000 points to expansion

Improvements:
Palace only

Luxuries:
3 Ivory

3 Shields per turn production

9 food per turn (4 used) (growth in 4)

5 gold per turn
1 (20%) to taxes
4 (80%) to Science
0 (0%) to Luxuries

Two fortified Spearmen (3 hit-points each, Regular)

Settler (will be complete in 8 turns)

There's some good info there. We can see that Thebes is one heck of a settler factory. Based on these stats and the AI's expansion push I'm guessing that Egypt has a whole lot of territory. They have iron (swords) but no horses (at least in the capital). General Charis will value this info. Great idea to take all that down Falcon ;)

Thanks, I figured it was a "Free" extra with the Embassy so I figured if we have it why not see if we can use it.

This citizen is concerned that our Foreign Minister is not being fully adhered by our President. Your mandates are clear:

We need to cultivate relations with the Aztecs and Babylonians. At the first opportunity we need to set up embassies with both. Embassies are necessary for a military alliance and Right of Passage.
...
Foreign Policy Manifesto
1. Establish embassies as soon as possible.

6. Similarly, the Department of Foreign Affairs will not sign Right of Passage agreements with civilizations identified by the Military Department as probable victims of agression. We will sign ROP agreements with civilizations that are not identified as targets and those targets that we do not intend to attack within the period of the ROP agreement.

We are currently at war with most of our neighbours. I don't think we have established embassies with anyone. Our relationships are suffering. We need to stand up for the Manifesto of this department.

Originally posted by chiefpaco
This citizen is concerned that our Foreign Minister is not being fully adhered by our President. Your mandates are clear:



We are currently at war with most of our neighbours. I don't think we have established embassies with anyone. Our relationships are suffering. We need to stand up for the Manifesto of this department.

Had these decrees been ratified by the rest of the cabinet, I would agree with you. However, they have not, and are currently nothing more than suggestions from our respected foreign affairs minister. Embassies are expensive, which I believe I warned of earlier in this thread, so we must have a good reason to establish one this early. Had we established these embassies, we would have about half the gold we have now, and the Babylonians likely would have still declared war, as their idiotic military advisor told them they have a superior military.

Once we have established a more effective (monarchy or republic)government, I would like to give the foreign ministry an actual budget, which it can use at its discretion.

I also would like the foreign minister to appoint a chat represenative, ASAP.

The Department of Foreign Affairs is now hiring a secondary chat representative. In the event that myself and Deputy Benjamin can not attend the chat this representative will speak with the full authority of the Department. Requirements of the position are:
[list=1]
Good knowledge and understanding of the Foreign Policy (1st post in this thread).
Knowledge of current affairs in Phoenatica.
Ability to attend the chat sessions.
[/list=1]
If you are interested in the position please send me a PM.

Originally posted by chiefpaco
This citizen is concerned that our Foreign Minister is not being fully adhered by our President. Your mandates are clear:

We are currently at war with most of our neighbours. I don't think we have established embassies with anyone. Our relationships are suffering. We need to stand up for the Manifesto of this department.
I appreciate the support, chiefpaco, but I'm not unduly concerned at this point. As Eyrei mentioned, cash is a premium at this point and I understand that until the Department has its own budget we won't get everything we want if it affects the treasury. Yes, we do want embassies with everybody and I'd like them right now but the upgrade plan for the Immortals took priority up to this point.

I'd love to have somebody at the turn chats to represent the Department. My schedule nixes my attendance unless it's at 9:00 GMT. Deputy Benjamin is also generally unable to attend. If you can regularly make the chats I'd be happy to appoint you as the Undersecretary of Foreign Affairs. PM me if you are interested.

Ill volunteer to help, because it seems Skilord has beaten me for the governor position, not that I'm upset about it though. He'll do a fine job :goodjob:

The position of Undersecretary of Foreign Affairs is now held by Immortal. Immortal is now an official chat presence for the Department of Foreign Affairs. In the even that Shaitan or Benjamin Miller are not attending a turn chat, Immortal is the official voice of the Department.

This Directive has also been posted to the Presidential thread:

By a narrow margin the people of Phoenatica have decided to NOT ally with Egypt. The Phoenaticans want a small deal with g/t with Egypt to hopefully keep them out of the current conflict (this would be the responsibility of the Trade Department). We will not make peace with Babylon at this point. The general feeling is that we will never pay for peace with Babylon.

General war directive - peace should be sought with all enemy civilizations except America but we will not pay for peace with any at this point.

Hi, sorry I didnt make it to the chat tonight but I was in a major car accident a couple days ago and I was discharged an hour ago from the hospital. Ill try ot make it from now on.

Ouch.... How major was it? Hopefully you didn't get your brains screwed up. You tend to be a good source of reliable information and good advice.

Originally posted by Strider
Ouch.... How major was it? Hopefully you didn't get your brains screwed up. You tend to be a good source of reliable information and good advice.

:) thanks for your concern, my car was wrecked, as well as the guy who rear-ended me. I got whiplash, a lot of cuts and scrapes and I hurt my arm real bad, but it'll all heal.

sorry to hear it, Immortal. Get well soon.

Yeah get well soon.

I would send you a get well soon card, but I don't know your address and I don't think singing happy birthday fits to well with the sitution.

Hey, Immortal, welcome to the foreign affairs ministry, and get well soon.

I've been meaning to attend the past few turn chats, but I've had more homework than ususual, and a lot of other crap to keep me busy. :(

I hopefully should be able to make some in the near future.

double post.

would it make sense to make peace with babylon to destroy their reputation with the other civs?
i believe the others will then come to the peace table very easy since bab broke the pact. and we could deny peace for america to capture their cities (and we could concentrate on this one without having to split our forces!)

Originally posted by disorganizer
would it make sense to make peace with babylon to destroy their reputation with the other civs?
i believe the others will then come to the peace table very easy since bab broke the pact. and we could deny peace for america to capture their cities (and we could concentrate on this one without having to split our forces!)
Yes, it's a viable strategy but the people were not happy with the price tag. If you feel you can drum up enough support to debate this again I'd be happy to repoll the populace.

Originally posted by disorganizer
would it make sense to make peace with babylon to destroy their reputation with the other civs?
i believe the others will then come to the peace table very easy since bab broke the pact. and we could deny peace for america to capture their cities (and we could concentrate on this one without having to split our forces!)

I completely support this idea once we have upgrade all the warriors we intend to upgrade. At this point, I believe we should be willing to spend all of our cash on hand to get peace with the Babylonians. We are making around 25 gold/turn currently, so our treasury will recover pretty quickly, and, like disorganizer said, this would probably make peace treaties with the other civs easier and cheaper.

We only need money right now to upgrade warriors, buy tech and make peace. Assuming we get the Great Library and have upgraded all of our warriors, we have only peace to invest in.

I've posted a repoll to see the citizen's wishes here. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20581)

My parents are coming down from the Great White North to see our new baby. I'll be pretty much off of the boards Friday, Saturday and Sunday. I leave you in the capable hands of Deputy Benjamin Miller and Undersecretary Immortal.

We need a peace treaty with the yanks ASAP. They should be willing to part with quite a bit, especially if we take Washington in a few turns. I suggest that immediately after our imminent assault on Washington, whether or not we take it, we sign some sort of peace treaty. Instead of being surrounded, we will be able to focus on defending a few cities. We should probably either raise Houston before this, or demand it in negotiations.

Well, it seems like most people agree with a peace treaty after Washington. But, Honestly I would rather not get Houston in the Negotiations. It's not in the right place.

We already have soldiers nearby ready to take Houston and clear out the Barbs. Houston will auto-raze, and we can settle in the spot we wanted. And this will be without violating our No Razing policy, since we couldn't take it over even if we wanted to.

Originally posted by Falcon02
Well, it seems like most people agree with a peace treaty after Washington. But, Honestly I would rather not get Houston in the Negotiations. It's not in the right place.

We already have soldiers nearby ready to take Houston and clear out the Barbs. Houston will auto-raze, and we can settle in the spot we wanted. And this will be without violating our No Razing policy, since we couldn't take it over even if we wanted to.

Will the attack on Houston commence at about the same time as the attack on Washington? If so, getting it in negotiations is a moot point. We can always disband it with a settler if we get it in negotiations though.

Yes, we should be able to take Washington and Houston in the same turn. And in fact with us taking two cities in one turn it might help to convince them to come to a peaceful deal.

CENSUS OFFICE
The Census Office wants to remember all Citizens to re-register in the new official registry http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20720 !!!

CHAT OFFICE
The Chat Office wants to remember the Department Leaders to announce their chat-representatives in the thread http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20797 until 1 hour before the chat. They will NOT be voiced if not nominated in the thread!

Do we have the territory that we want? If not, how much more do we want? Our policy of Manifest Destiny was decided upon when we knew very little of the map. The general assumption was that we would conquer an entire large island or small continent - maybe even a large continent. Since we're on a pangaea continent we may need to rethink this policy. Please discuss and vote on this policy here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21190).

It has become painfully obvious that our best friend Hammurabi has been buying peoples favour for many decades now. I noticed this after we spend much of our knowledge trying to get people out of this war, and Greece and babylon shoot them right back in. I think we should conquer egypt fully and then see if Babylon and Greece think we should "appease" them.

Onward to more solid discussion:

America has only one city left, Houston (very apparent because it is the newest and the capital) it seems we wont get any money out of them for peace, as I suspect they have no income. In my opinion, we should take Houston, and that would probably destroy there civ as a whole. However,on the odd chance they have a settler somewhere out there, whether it be on a boat or what-have-you, peace should be made with them.

Intermission!!!! :crazyeye: :scan: :cool:

Our American citizens harbour deep resentments for the ongoing war and we would only cause riots by continuing the aggression against their mother country. When we do locate their final city (should there be one) we can take it in one turn, finishing the chances of the people rebelling.

Whew, that was long, sorry folks! :eek: :crazyeye:

SirPleb has shown me a good deal. We can get peace with the Egyptians, for a great deal.

We get...
Military Alliances against...
Yanks (make the cost cheaper)
Babylonians
Greece
Iroqouis
100+ gold

They get...
Military Alliances as stated above

This could garentee an ally to stop the domino effect from repeating. At the very least we have nothing to lose. We won't be able to attack Egypt for a while, and it will make the war longer, but our peace won't be undone, it's worth it for the gold alone, even if they do break it.

So let me make sure I understand this, we get 100 gold for peace with them, and an alliance against several countries we are already at war with? :goodjob:

The only downside is it delays our destruction of the evil, treacherous Egyptian by 20 turns, er...
I mean it solidifies our friendship and mutual understanding for several centuries into the future!! ;)

Sounds good to me.

Donsig pointed out it will prevent the production of Leaders, (or at least reduce them). So we may want to research if we can find a simular deal with others.

Sorry for my absence. I've spent the bulk of the past couple days in the hospital with my 3 month old. The good news is everything is cool now. The bad news is I'm so tired any advice I could give right now would be suspect.

Immortal's plan looks excellent to me and I fully endorse it. (See, told you he was an excellent candidate!)

Foreign Affairs Thread - Term 2 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21613)