Hey guys and gals. Anyone want to play a SG with me?

I was thinking...

Vanilla Civ 3 (latest patch):)
Diety :evil:
Roaming Barbarians :viking:
Standard Map Size :)
All else RANDOM! :evil:

I can only do plain old Civ 3 because its all I have. Civ 3 was 4.95 while civ 4 was 49.95, so I went with Civ 3.

I have been able to win consistently on Emperor, but have yet to try Diety.

I'd like to do this game with everything random and using the first map we get. I'm always up for a good challenge.

Welcome to the Fourms!

You can count me in.

How many players are you looking for???

Welcome Moxxa!

[party] :dance: :band:

Uh, just so you know, most SGs here are in Conquests (75%), followed by Vanilla (20%) and then Play the World (5%). If you get Civ 3 Complete, it comes with all three versions. Check eBay for prices. I got my copy for around $20 or so.

Good luck with your SG! I'm in too many SGs to join another, plus Vanilla doesn't work on my machine (it did, but not now and I gave up trying to fix it).

So Random AI and a Random Civ. Gutsy. :goodjob:

Nice to see some interest!

Four players, plus myself, for a total of five, would be ideal. I'm flexible though. I'll say three to six.

Yeah, it is gutsy, but I figure if some of the guys on here can win with only 5 cities, we can win with mostly random settings.

Players so far -

Moxxa
JJJSpider

I always like random first rolls. Sign me up.

Hey,

I'd like to get in on this if possible. If not, thanks.


Blaze injun

Diety, non variant, all random...
And nerovats...
Sound very attractive.
Sign me in

Awesome. Here is the official roster. If there is someone else who REALLY wants to get in on this, if they're good, we might make an exception and let them play, too.

Players:

Moxxa
JJJSpider
nerovats
Blaze Injun
I. Larkin

This doesn't have to be the order we play, but I would like to play the first twenty turns, then 10 each after that. You will have 72 hours to play, starting from the time the last save was posted, before you are skipped. I'll roll the game out first thing tomorrow, because tonight its :banana: PARTY TIME! :band: WHOOOOOOOOOO! :banana:

Ok, I got a little anxious and rolled our start. It's not bad at all so far...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/104753/RandomSG4000BC.JPG

4 Ivory, Persia, BGs, and shoreline within view. Its kind of a crappy location on the map, but I've had worse starts.

I'm thinking move the worker SW, then settle in place. Research Pottery at max science.

That start screams,"Statue of Zeus!".

I scream, "It's only Vanilla" ;)

I scream, "It's only Vanilla" ;)

Doh! Another 'senior' moment!

Move worker then decide where to settle. Settling in place will ofcourse save a turn and provide a lux right away. I'd set science for IW. Hopefully we have iron and 1 or 2 ai nearby. Do we want to aim for a cenrtain VC or just see how it goes.
Roster is fine by me. Haven't played with any of you before except for IVan (good to see you're still here), so don't know your strong points.

4000 BC - Settled Persepolis in place, researching Pottery at 100%, Peresolopis building warrior in 5.

3950 BC - ZZZzzz...

3900 BC - ZZZzzz...

3850 BC - ZZZzzz...

3800 BC - Met Monty of the Aztecs, traded Masonry and 9 Gold for Pottery and Ceremonial Burial. Researching Iron Working at 20%. 100% was still 40 turns, but two less GPT.

3750 BC - Peresopolis Warrior -> Warrior

3700 BC - Exploring...ZZZzzz...

3650 BC - ZZZzzz...

3600 BC - Discovered Aztec borders very close to us, only 4 tiles to the south.

3550 BC - Persepolis Warrior -> Spearmen. Two warriors for exploring should be enough considering our position. Now, I want a spearman to defend against potential Barbarian uprisings.

3500 BC - ZZZzzz...

3450 BC - ZZZzzz...

3400 BC - Met Shaka of the Zulus only 1 tile SW of the Aztec borders. I traded Bronze Working and 11 gold for Warrior Code.

3350 BC - Persepolis Spearman -> Granary

3300 BC - Met the Babylonians. We are up Masonry on them.

3250 BC - ZZZzzz...

3200 BC - ZZZzzz...

3150 BC - ZZZzzz...

3100 BC - ZZZzzz...

3050 BC - Traded Masonry for a Babylonian worker and 10 gold.

Here is our situation...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/104753/RandomSG3050BC.JPG

The red dot is where I think we should put our next city. We really don't have much room to expand; only a few tiles in any direction. We are going to have to fight our way out of this corner. :evil:

Here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/104753/Random_SG_-_3050_BC.SAV) is the save. Looking good so far!

EDIT: Whoever wants the next 10 turns, just post here, then go ahead and play it. We can decide the order that way.

I got save, may play soon or after some discussion
Looks that RCP3 is good.
Iwill change granary to settler to have 2 City first.
Barbarians nearby. So I think to return warriors back

Yeah, I couldn't decide whether to build a settler or granary first. I'm an Emperor level player and I would always build a granary before a settler. I think it speeds you up more in the long run, but we are going to have to claim some hills and mountains quickly to increase our chances of having iron.

Since ai is so close I wouldn't build a granary at all. Just get 2 maybe 3 more cities and hope for iron. Build baracks and only units. Don't hold of war to long as they'll get stronger fast. Maybe we can trick the ai into declaring on each other.

Turlog in Doc file looks better.

0 3050*BC See picture. We can localize all 3 capitals. Our corner is not bad. We can have good 3RCP (Black dots) and next 6RCP. Important to find Iron and settle nearby.It is hills or mountings may be.So next City may be at point “2” or “2?”. The rest Rcp3 may be later.Switch Granary to settler. We need more MU and it is too risky to wait until granary will be finished.Sci 20%.
1 3000*BC Settler-> Granary.
2 2950*BC Trade 3 workers from Atzteks and 1 from Zulu. Send them to cut forest and road/irrigate cattle.
3 2900*BC Found Parsargrad. Send workers closer to home.
4 2850*BC Aztecs and Babs fight. Powerful Zulu stack go to our direction. Hopefully they go for Barbarians.
5 2800*BC Workers work…
6 2750*BC Decided to scout North.
7 2710*BC All AI have Wheel and Mystitism.
8 2670*BC
9 2630*BC
10 2590*BC Granary will be ready at 3 turns. Forest cut in 4.

Since ai is so close I wouldn't build a granary at all. Just get 2 maybe 3 more cities and hope for iron. Build baracks and only units. Don't hold of war to long as they'll get stronger fast. Maybe we can trick the ai into declaring on each other.
Why early war ? We can settle peacfully and trade. Three partners is a good support...

3 partners might work for you but trading still is my weakest point. As normally I would go for quick war given the circumstances, it will be more interesting for me to give peace a chance. We won't get much room though. What did you give for the workers in my games the ai demand a lot, and you got 3+1 on deity.
Who's next, prefer to hear from the other player before continuing, war or peace. We should consider a palace jump in the design. Will open the save tomorrow to get better picture and comment on how I think we should procede.

Hey,

Peace. I also go the quick war route and as nerovats says it will be a interesting trying peace. I would have not built the granary this early for the reason of the AIs being so close.

Nerovats since we are not following a turn order yet, you might as well play your turn. I'm the newbie and would like to wait.

Blaze Injun

As far as the peace or war thing goes, I think we might need to go to war just to aquire more space. If we can found 8-10 cities peacefully, ok, peace might be an option for a while, but we (possibly) have Immortals at our disposal and were backed up into the corner. I'm not talking about conquest here, but we should adapt our strategy to the situation.

Science can be dropped to 10%
Work the fresh water the last 2 turns for extra gold.
I would prefer to build rax first to get vet units. After the spear I prefer archers, or warriors if we find iron in 15.
Agree on the dotmap, accept move the southern pink onto the hill. Keep distances between cities at 2 to be able to excange units in 1 turn.
Can play later today. For now it's 3 against 1 for peace.

I don't check in as often on weekends.
But I see we are under way. Dot mapping looks good.
I don't think my vote really matters as we are leaning towards war anyways. But with Deity it really is a matter of space and you need to fight your way out.
However, Right now it is about expanding quick.
Plus with Babs and Aztec Fighting already and It looks to be soon Zulu joining the dogpile on the babs we might not need to jump into the fray soon unless we want to take advantge of the that.

I would like to take the next set after Nerovats if that OK.

Any ideas for what to reasearch after IW.
The only Options right now are Alpha, Wheel, and Mystism.
I would go with tradeing around and get Apha and start in on math next if possible.

pre turn adjust sliders
2550BC working, change citizens
2510BC lost of dear up north
2470BC Zulus have settled in the fog
2430BC chop finished settler in 3, Pasargadae spear->rax
2390BC working
2350BC adjust citizens again for free gold
2310BC settler->settler, up science slider
2270BC Found Susa->rax
2230BC babs has got dyes
2190BC not lot of room for settling left.

IW in 5, agree on trade it if we can get something for it. Math would be good for cats.

142779

142780

I think we are not going to war in next 20 turns. And I am afraid, that without Iron it will be difficult. Immortals will start our GA, and better to have it later.
Research after IW depend on what we will able to trade for it.
I prefer Writing ASAP, we need some Embassies for MA.
My dot map VERY APPROXIMATE, and we need better wersion. I agree, that hill position for Second City better. I think we may have settler after Granary.

Hey,

Sure JJJSpider you go next. I'll take the next. After IW if we have Iron trade for what we can get. I normally would go for writing next if we get alpha. If war is on the horizon go for Math. We need to get into the hills SW of Susa. Crossing fingers that iron well be there. Sounds like we are hinge-ing all on finding iron.

Blaze Injun

I still think, that trade better then war.
Did Babs and Azteks stop to fight? We may settle at hills and build road to conect Aztek capital. I hope we will get something for Ivory. Road also will help for war later. I also think that Writing will help better, then Math.

Deleted! Double post

Pre-turn
Not Much Move Our Warrior out of Aztec Terr. So as not to upset them much.

Turn 1 (2150BC):

IBT: Get Boot Order From Babs

Turn 2 (2110BC):
MM get extra Gold
http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/9503/babaplhanp5.jpg
Trade 6pgt and 44 gold to Babs for Alpha

Turn 3 (2070BC):
Sci Down to10% still in 1 turn.

Turn 4 (1990BC):
IW in. Feel we are going to need Math soon then later. Plus I think the AI is all ready working on Writing. Math in 40 @ 20%
Iron is close. However, with our Current City placement it needs Cult expansion.
Plus it will be popped by the Aztec Culture soon.

Turn 5 (1950BC):
Settler on top of Iron next turn

Turn 6 (1910BC):
Low and behold Babs have Writing
Establish Iron Shanty start on Temple it is butt up against an Aztec town. Can be changed

IBT:
Babs Start Pyramids

Turn 7 (1870BC):

IBT:
Babs Completes Oracle
Aztec start Pyramids
Monty ask us to leave Building trade way.

Turn 8 (1830BC):

IBT: Zulu start Pyramids

Turn 9 (1790BC):

IBT: Zulu Start Colossus

Turn 10 (1750BC):
http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/9026/aztecivorywy2.jpg
Trade Ivory and cash for the Wheel and we are lucky and have horses.

They are all up HBR and Myst. Monty is short Writing.

End Turn:
http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/9225/endgameqp4.jpg

The SAVE:
142808

Hey.

Got save. Now what does our team wish to do. We have a settler in 2. Having the iron were it is kinda throws off the next city site. We can still build there and be 2 away. Plus a close city for invasion when it comes. So the question is 2nd or 3rd site first or stick with the dot plans. Coast or interior near Nineveh. Need to know.

One other thing, due to the downloading of a 2nd gaphics package I can't take screenshots. If that is a requirement, then I will lower my head and lurk from now on. I'll withhold playing till I hear your answers.

Thanks

Blaze Injun

I would not worry to much about Pics. It helps with disscussion and the lurkers love them but they are not a must have IMHO.

My new dot map suggestion would be Red then Blue.
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/7609/dotmapkk4.jpg

:goodjob: What JS said... :goodjob:

Pre-Turn 1750 BC: Babs Bowan moving down coast to the north.
Zulu warrior moving up coast SE of Susa.

Turn-1 1725 BC: Northern warrior begins journey back to Persian Lands.
3 Workers in Aztec lands move toward home.

IBT: Zulu continues up coast. Large northern Zulu group 3 wars and 2 arch.
moving north. Possible Barbs?
Aztec settler/spear pair heading toward city site 1.

Turn-2 1700 BC: Persepolis => settler => Immortal in 10 turns.
Settler moved to sw of Susa.
2 workers start mining hill north of city site 1.
3 workers return to Persian lands.
1 worker continues to road to Nineveh.
We have 4gp (+0) Math in 32 turns. Sci. 20%

IBT: Babs move Set/Bow pair east into the mountains.
Aztec Archer moves north toward the Babs.
Aztec Set/Spr. move east away from city site. :)
Zulu warrior heads south down coast.

Turn-3 1675 BC: Settler to city site 1.
1 worker to mine hill.
2 workers to road NW of Iron Shanty.
Pasargadae up pop. to 4, growth in 10, Immortal in 1.
We have 4gp (+3 gpt), Math 31 turns. Sci. 20%

I used 2 workers to road NW of Iron Shanty. The reason was then mine it for 2 shields. Faster Temple.

IBT: Babs Set/Bow pair move north.
Aztec archer moves on north.
Aztec Set/Spr. pair move NE toward Persepolis.
Zulus Set/2War group moving up coast.

Turn-4 1650 BC: Arbela found. => Spearman in 20.
Pasargadae citizen to entertanment. => Immortal => Settler
in 10 turns.
Susa => Rex => Immortal 10 turns.
Workers continue road and mine.

Here I was lost about what to build in Arbela. With my turns limited the next player can change it without shield loss.

IBT: Aztecs now in our lands. SW of Susa.
Zula Set/2War group continue up coast.

Turn-5 1625 BC: The Road to Nineveh is complete. Bring worker home.
Arbela => spearman in 19
Pasargadae => settler in 8
Susa => Immortal in 9
Persepolis => Immortal in 7
Iron Shanty => Temple in 24
Workers continue.

Once again I second quess myself. Bringing the worker at Ninevah might have been a huge mistake. The road doesn't complete a road to their Capital. So no trade. But we didn't have any Ivory to trade.

Special note: Everyone now has Writing as well as HBR and Myst.

IBT: Aztec and Zulu groups continue through our lands headed NE past
Persepolis.

Felling way to weak I let them go.

Turn-6 1600 BC: Worker for west moves toward Ivory.

IBT: Aztecs and Zulus continue NE of Persepolis.

Turn-7 1575 BC: Vet Immortal moved to Persepolis.
2 workers complete Iron Shanty road begins mining.

IBT: Aztec and Zulus move NE of Persepolis. Will soon be out of our lands.
Zulu Impi/settler pair appear SW of Arbela.

Turn-8 1550 BC: Worker reaches Ivory north of Persepolis.
Northern warrior finally reaches Persian Lands.
Susa pop. now 3 has 1 unhappy face.

IBT: Aztecs are out of our lands NE of Persepolis.
Zulus move west. North of Persepolis.

Turn-9 1525 BC: Worker starts to road Ivory.
Northern warrior back on road NW of Persepolis.

IBT: Zulu Impi/settler pair move into Persia. West of Arbela.
Zulus complete the Pyramids in the city of Zimbabwe.
Babs start building The Great Lighthouse.

Turn-10 1500 BC: Persepolis => Immortal => Rex. Pop 3, growth 4
Reg Immortal sent to Pasargadae.
Pasargadae => settler in 3 turns. Pop 4, no growth
Northern warrior sent to Susa.
Susa => Immortal in 4 turns. Pop3, growth in 7
Arbela => Spearman in 14 turns. Pop 1, growth in 4
Mine north of Arbela done in 1 turn.
Iron Shanty => Temple in 12 turns. Pop 3, growth in 10
Sci. 20%


142821

Hope the turn set works for you all. If I made a mistake or any blunders please let me know. Thanks for this round.

Blaze Injun

Good job.

This is advice only.

No real loss on Arbela it has got some great food growth but poor shields and probably could be used to make setters. Whipped if need be.

I would have made the Rax first in Persepolis first before the Immortal. That really is minor.

No need to second-guess the trade route with Bab. they will finish that road soon enough plus as you noted we didn't have another source of Ivory hook up yet to trade.
I was only going to build the road to Ninevah myself.

The only thing is the choice of the Clown.
1. Taxman would have been extra gold.
2. Raise the slider would have meant another worker.
3. With our current run of Sci @ 20% we could also have hired a Geek and dropped Sci to zero with no loss in turns and extra gold for possible trades. (or demands depending on how you look at it.)
Any one of those options would have been better then the clown.

Better to settle first RC3 City near horse-Cattel. It may change Catel with Persepolis. We lose now 2 foods per cicle. What next RC6 or RC5? What do you think about idea to trade horse or Iron? We also may borrow money and research math at 100%.

The save isn't working for me.

Who is up next?

Hey,

I can send you a email with the save. Need your address.

Hope I did it right.

Lance

Trading Iron can be tricky but we may need to do it.
Horses I have no problem with in a small empire such as ours.

Roster:
Moxxa: UP
I. Larkin: On Deck
Nerovats
JJJSpider
Blaze Injun: Just played.

Based upon first round order.

I also can't open file with my Vanila Civ. (Error - BIC). Civassist 2 open it OK.
About general strategy. I think we have to get some monopoly Tech ASAP. Trade it to 3 civ is a good benefit. But we have to research fast. We may trade whatever we have for sale and borrow money and keep research at 100%. We may do Math + Literacy or (if Math will not work) Currency.
Alternative way is just try war with Babilons.

I just double checked the Save myself.
It is not working because it is a Conquest Save.
So either B. Injun will need to replay jis set or skipped his turn/save and go back from the 1750BC save.

A monoploy tech would be nice. Currency or Construction may be the way to go for that.

Hey

I'm so sorry. Please don't hold this mistake against me. There are 2 things I can do.

1) Drop me and I'll just lurk and comment here and there. If that would be
ok with you all.

2) I can uninstall both conquest and PTW for this game. But I'm playing a
PBEM and would have to uninstall and install to play that game every day.

So the first would be best I believe. Plus replaying my turn would help you guys more then my moves. I just want to thank you for the chance to play. Hopefully this will not keep us from playing together in the future.

Thanks ever so much,

Blaze Injun

Well, its somewhat spoiled now because we have seen 10 turns into the future. I'm still happy with continuing with the game, though. I'd also be fine with restarting because its all random anyway.

In either case, we are going to have to drop you BI.

I think nothing wrong if Moxxa will replay BI's turns. (Even with correction of strategy, I mean Sci->100%). It is our game and BTW C3C AI play differently.

I just double checked the Save myself.
It is not working because it is a Conquest Save.
So either B. Injun will need to replay jis set or skipped his turn/save and go back from the 1750BC save.

A monoploy tech would be nice. Currency or Construction may be the way to go for that.
When I play Sci civ I try to get Literature ASAP. At Otto GOTM even at Diety some Cities fliped to me.

Got the save. I will play tonight.

Ok, we are definetly going to war with the Aztecs as soon as we can (when our trade agreement is up). They have incense, horses, iron, and most importantly, SPACE! If we can conquer them, we will have the space and resources to try a peaceful game. I'd also like to try to get the Zulus and Babs in a war with each other if possible. Babylonian culture scares me...

Preturn - Drop Science to 10%, Math in 34

Turn 1 - 1725 BC - Send Warrior from the tundra back home. He will make a nice Immortal. Traded Horses and 3 gpt for writing to Monty.

Turn 2 - 1700 BC - Persepolis: Settler -> Settler

Turn 3 - 1675 BC - ZZZzzz...

Turn 4 - 1650 BC - Pasargaede: Immortal -> Immortal, Susa: Barracks -> Immortal

Founded Arbela -> Spearman

Turn 5 - 1625 BC - Finished road to Nineveh

Turn 6 - 1600 BC - ZZZzzz...

Turn 7 - 1575 BC - ZZZzzz...

Turn 8 - 1550 BC - ZZZzzz...

Turn 9 - 1525 BC - ZZZzzz...

Turn 10 - 1500 BC - Persepolis: Settler -> Barracks, Pasargaede: Immortal -> Immortal

We have writing now so we can establish an embassy, but that gold might be better spent on upgrading warriors. I also decided to not settle on the hills because they will provide much needed shields. Our biggest threat right now is culture flips. Once we get Lit, we can start making libraries to counter this. Don't build temples.

Here is what we look like.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/104753/1500BC_-_Persian_Empire.JPG

Here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/104753/Moxxa_1500_BC.SAV) is the save.

Well, If we start War and win it will be difficult to stop, you know. When war?
How far? Do we want just 2 Azteks border City or Capital as well? Why you sent settler NW?

The settler move was an error. I was trying to follow the latest dot map posted, but I clicked the wrong square. OOPS! Make sure you click him so he doesn't automatically go to the wrong square when you start your first turn.

I think we will know how far to take the war when the time comes. Right now, I just don't see any other way to play it.

Ideas?

I will look at the save and post ideas soon. As I unerstood we did not go for Sci 100% gambit and war is the only option now. Azteks is the only resonable target. Zulus are too strong with Impy.
I think we may wait until gpt expired. We may borrow money from Babs and ugrade warriors to Immortals. I think we may make EmbassY and make MA when start war. With Whom?
Nerovats, what else I can do to prepare for war better?

0 1500 BC Trade Workers from Zulu . Change Persepolis back to settler. Borrowed money from Babs (45 for 3 gpt) and upgrade warrior.Embassy in Babylon. See picture. Send workers to work.
IBT Babs Bowmen go to Aztecs. AI Settlers move.
1 1475 BC Move Settler. Borrow more money and upgrade warrior.
IBT Babs Bowmen come to Aztecs land.
2 1450 BC Found Antioh.
IBT Atzteks come to our land.Babs declare to Azteks! Texcoco defended by single reg spear won vs 3 Archers and promote to elite.
3 1425 BC Workers work… Sci 0%, research with Single sci.
IBT Azt. Archer west. Settler south
4 1400 BC Worker works…
IBT Babs lose one more BM
5 1375 BC Trade all TM. Trade Ivory for Dyse+20. Sci->10%.
IBT Babs offer alliance vs Azteks. OK, later.Babs lose 1 BM vs e sp and kill reg spearman in Texcoco. Zulu move back home via our land.
6 1350 BC
IBT
7 1325 BC
IBT Zulu moves look suspicious.
8 1300 BC Trade more workers.
IBT
9 1275 BC Joined native worker to our City.
IBT
10 1250 BC Move troops for war at
Comments Nerovats, do not declare IBT!. 1 spear is OK. Agree to leave.Make MA with Babs at 1225 BC. Ask all gold (or some tech for that) and pay gpt and Horses as a change. If they make peace we will trade horses again. I think Teotihuncan more important, than Texcoco. Babs will destroy it sooner or later. At GA we may make MA with Zulu for gpt. But don’t know.

change some citizens around, change arbela to immortal
1225BC
get MA with Babs get 326 gold for horse and 6gpt
move citizens march on Teotihuacan
1200BC
lose a vet immortal but 2 others win, we take Teotihuacan, keep it as I suspect low flip chance.
get GA, up lux to get more units to front.
1175BC
land stack near Texcoco
1150BC
Change Antioch to rax
Arbela immortal->rax
Pasargadae Im->Im
lose 3 Im take 1 spear 1 archer and just 1 hp spear left in Texoco
1125BC
Persepolis rax->Im
Teothihuacan had 2% flip risk....
lose 2 Im on the 3 hp spear, not my day.
1100BC
Finally kill the spear, Taxoco is autorazed, we get 2 more slaves
Take 1 spear out of Teotihuacan
1075BC
Take Teothihuacan again, also keep it again. Got an elite in the proces.
Need to heal IM's now though.
1050BC
Accidently let Pasargadae riot sending a unit NE to get an archer. Now go single scientist.
Aztecs just keep moving units within their borders by the way. Babs doesn't to be sending in a lot of units.
1025BC
change Tarsus and Arbela to settlers (they have no rax)
1000BC
Zulus enter our land 3 warriors, 2 archers are following
Stop here, most units can still move, do we boot Zulu's risk war? It will give us the initiative. We can pre-empivly take out all the warriors and send extra spears to Tarsus. But maybe they are not after us. It would we great if we could focus on Aztecs. Is we get Tenochtitln they're conquered. Maybe we can fight 2 wars as Aztec haven't posed any thread. This last turn babs send some bowmen south so they should keep them buisy. I vote get the Zulu's. We have 12 turns GA left. Can get about 15 vet Im's in that time. We now have 9 (lost several on Texacoco). Teotihuacan now has 1% flip risk.

143073

143074

Agh! I lose my internet for a week and the first Vanilla SG for ages starts up :wall: bugger. I'll have to lurk for this one but if anyone drops out and you need another player please consider me for the position. I'm a deity level player and most of the people here would be able to vouch for me.
Please consider me if you ever need another player
Cheers mate
-Sam

Looking good so far guys! Nice turnsets!:goodjob:

I think we should go for the Aztec capital now and just finish them off. Since we broke our trade agreement with the aztecs, we might have to just kill everyone else off too before they get contacts and tell everyone about our bad rep.:D

Might we be on an Islands map with the biggest islands? Its either that or continents, but that looks like a pretty small continent.

Oh yeah, Tupac, you can take Blaze Injun's spot in the rotation if you like. So now either you or JJJSpider can take the next turnset.

Welcome.:D

Hey,

You picked a great replacement. :goodjob:
Good luck guys!!

Blaze Injun

That was fast :crazyeye: since I just played in Tupac06 and JJJ isn't up till after merlin in that I'll let him pick the save up for this round. I'll go back through the thread and fully familiarize myself with it, then take it.

Looking good so far guys! Nice turnsets!:goodjob:

I think we should go for the Aztec capital now and just finish them off. Since we broke our trade agreement with the aztecs, we might have to just kill everyone else off too before they get contacts and tell everyone about our bad rep.:D

Might we be on an Islands map with the biggest islands? Its either that or continents, but that looks like a pretty small continent.
We did not broke agreement: Horse deal expireed at 1225BC. Our reputation clean. I think we have to bring Zulu to fight at our side: I mean MA vs Azteks. We have money. Alternatively they will declare. After Azteks gone we may think about Zulu. Welcome tupaclives.

Ok i got will played later today and have somthing posted by tonight.

Are you sure Zulu's will not declare on us if we sign MA against Aztecs with them? If tried this in other games, but they still attacked me. They would then still be at war with the Aztecs as well as us so it would help. Matbe get MA for gpt, if they brake it we don't have to pay for them declaring on Aztecs.

Are you sure Zulu's will not declare on us if we sign MA against Aztecs with them? If tried this in other games, but they still attacked me. They would then still be at war with the Aztecs as well as us so it would help. Matbe get MA for gpt, if they brake it we don't have to pay for them declaring on Aztecs.
May be...
Shure, for gpt. + some cash from them! After, we may ask "remove or declare!". If they remove we are save. If they declare to us we will fight them, but they will be at war with Azteks.

Well I went with a different way it did pay off.

Pre-turn
MM for extra gold complete builds with no waste.
Moved some troops to the front.
Swing a Deal with Zulu Myst. for WM and 6gpt. It was the cheapest one.
Ask them to now move or declare! They Move. :bummer:

IBT:

Turn 1 (975BC):
Zulu Move or declare! Moved

IBT:

Turn 2 (950BC):
Zulu Move or Declare we are at war.
Kill four Zulu Warrior in Stack (4-0)

IBT:
Kill archer on Defense (5-0)
Loose worker stack to imp form the fog.

Turn 3 (925BC):
Kill Az. Spear and Archer Razed Az Capital. (7-0)
Kill Zulu Archer (8-0)

IBT: ZZZZ

Turn 4 (900BC):
Kill 2 Impi at Hlobane (10-0)
Kill 1 Impi retreat another (11-0)

IBT:

Turn 5 (875BC):
Math in Set to Lit in 8 Turns at deficit:
Kill 3 Impi and 2 Warriors and Capture Hlobane with 3 settlers and 1 worker. (16-0)
Kill red Impi on Mountain. (17-0)
Loose 1 Imm. To Zulu Warrior (16-1)
Trade Math and 170GP to Babs for Maps, HBR and Phil
Then get CoL for 270 GP

IBT:
Some Impi Approached

Turn 6 (850BC):
MM Around.

IBT:
Loose worker stack to Impi.

Turn 7 (825BC):
Lit drop to 5 turns
Kill one impi and two warriors (19-1) and settler
Loose Imm. TO Impi (19-2) Zulu are in the golden age.
Establish Gordium

IBT: Dyes deal ends I didn’t renew.
Babs moves a lot of troops in.

Turn 8 (800BC):
Trade Ivory to them for WM and Cash. Hoping to prevent war.
Establish Bactra.

IBT:

Turn 9 (775BC):
Kill Impi loose Imm. (20-3)

IBT: Babs Finish the GLH

Turn 10 (750BC):
Loose Imm. And kill Az Spear. (21-4) autoRaze Talch.
Kill 2 impi and one Zulu Sword (24-4)

MA VS Aztec ends next turn. They are willing to give up Poly and a city for PT this turn.
Zulu will take Peace as well and give up Poly and gold. We are Closing in on Ulund So I will leave this up to the next player.
I razed that one Aztec city in the north where I think Babs was headed. So all those Bowmen should turn around. If they move further in the core be prepared.

End Turn Screen:
http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/5613/endturnan2.jpg


The Save:143204

Why you razed Az Capital? (Just ask). Did you think flip risk too high?

I probably would have kept the city as wel, but at least we got some much needed land.

Looks like we can get some good deals for peace. I say take them, maybe after taking Ulundi, looks like we can keep it. Then reposition, declare on babs and get MA's with the others (so no breaking treaties).

Too be honest! I didn't like its location. It was across the river also I felt it was difficult to defend at the time. I got lucky with a yellowed Imm. and they had a sword and spear right next to it. in the IBT the babs killed them. because of the free roads. If I would have kept it I would have lost it the next turn for sure.

Sounds like you made the right decision. Will take a look at save tomorrow then make up my mind in what I think we should do.

Well, probably after MA treaty expire we may make peace with azteks.
My experience shows, that it is not need to quit from alliance formaly first.
Reputation will be clean, but we will get more.
Inspite of Impy, I'd like to continue to Zimbabwe. Pyramids too good to left it. Also we have WH due to Zulu war. May be Aliance with Babs vs Zulu? Sure, we will trade with Babylon. (Horse, Incense...)
Who is up?

Roster:
Moxxa: On Deck
I. Larkin:
Nerovats:
JJJSpider: Just played.
Tupaclives: UP

I see it and will play later today

Preturn - Things look pretty good. I'm rather nervous about so many Babylonians wandering around our lands... looking at trades we could get dyes straight up for incense but we get horses and 6gpt back next turn from the Aztec alliance so I'll see what I can get from them then (extra cash) we can get Poly from Aztecs next turn when our MA with Babylon expires. Swap Hlobane's taxman to a clown to prevent a riot.

Hit enter.

IT - Zulu drop off a injured Impi and an archer by Persopolis (undefended), luckily a Immortal also completes so we can knock them off.

Turn 1 (730 BC) - Retreat the impi without damage, kill the archer with another immortal losing 1hp (1-0). Kill 2 impi guards (3-0) and take Ulundi. I decide to hold it, yes there's a flip risk but we can whip a settler from it to move it so we don't take pop from our core. Move toward Zimbabwae. Cancel MA against Aztecs but can't get the city and Poly from them, its only close to a deal. Knowing the babs will prob get their cities if we don't finish them off I decide to push on against them, we don't need the babs getting any more land than they already have. Cut sci back 20% still have lit in 1.

IT - zzz

Turn 2 (710 BC) - haven't seen any comment on our next tech move but we can get Republic in 19 turns without deficit so I decide to go for it. Apologies if this is wrong. I also can't find comments on the GL city... I set Pasagardae to it (it has shields in the box and is our equal top shield producer) due in 32. Kill 2 Zulu swords and an impi (6-0).
Decide that I’d rather our immortals work toward Zimbabwae rather than waste potentially their lives on getting a totally corrupt city. I make peace for Poly and WM. Trade Horses + Incense to Babylon for Dyes + 177gold.

IT - zz

Turn 3 (690 BC)- Our GA ends and Republic is now in 22.

IT - zzz

Turn 4 (670 BC)- Babylon is now up Construction and has contact with Iroquois and English. They have the GLhouse so I don’t think we can make contact ourselves. Contacts are prohibatively expensive, not sure what we can do to get them short of trading Lit (only an option if we get a leader). Kill a zulu sword (7-0).

IT - zzz

Turn 5 (650 BC) - Kill a zulu sword and

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/212/picture4gi3.jpg

I’m going to pause here to here opinions on the leader, do we just rush the Great Library or is there something else we want first?
In a single player game I'd probably go for the Great Library, an army would take to long to get involved again, so I'd go for the Great Library ahead of an army or the FP.

On another point, when we get Zimbabwae (and thus the pyramids), do we want to make peace straight away? Also any ideas for getting the iroquois + english contacts, if we rush the GL then we could buy them with Lit. If we don' get the contacts, then we can probably actually get more value for the Great Library...

Things keep looking better and better!:goodjob:

I think we should rush the Great Library ASAP. Don't trade Lit until we actually have the Great Library existing, fully built, in one of our cities. It would suck to lose it in a cascade on the IT with a full shield box. I'd say switch Pasagarde to something else (up to you Tupac) and build the GL in Ulundi or Teotihuacan. Once we have the GL fully built and existing, get the contacts at any cost and watch the techs roll in!:D

I think we should continue destroying the Zulu's after we get the Pyramids to prevent a flip.

EDIT: Also, any reason why you're building a catapult in Iron Shanty instead of a Settler or Immortals? I don't think we will be needing catapults with all these Immortals running around.

It might be a good idea to switch Hlobane to a Harbor once we get map making, too. It will have a fish after we build a library there and we can export all these extra luxes. I'd say pop rush it if possible.

We probably can get all techs in peace talks, but it will take a long time before we can ship an army. Probably Great lib best. Trade lit the turn before completion, a tech with an uncompleted wonder is worth more.

I think FP better than TGL. We are research leaders and for long time only Babylons may assist in reseach. TGL needs 2 advanced civ, you know.

I'd trade contacts for gold or gpt. Then make full trade of all techs they have, WMs, including MA with Babs vs ZULU and separate deal to trade Literature to get money back. Let Babylon build TGL for us.
Republic is a good choise. When we will have more libs we get it better. I'd even poprush libs in some Cities.
I wrote, that if you make peace before close MA deal, you could get more.
Military action: better to have some workers near front to build road for advance.
I'd make MA with Babs vs Zulu. Better finish them all. Also we will trap Babs army in remote place.
Thank you for pause.
Where is the save?

We probably can get all techs in peace talks, but it will take a long time before we can ship an army. Probably Great lib best. Trade lit the turn before completion, a tech with an uncompleted wonder is worth more.

You are right. And if we have full box we are first on Wonder. But I don't think we will need it. Contacts will show.

Hmmm! how very intersting.
Lets finish off the Zulu now they are gassed Plus the Pyramids are oooohh so nice.
I say go for the GLB. If we only buy one contacts do you think the tech pace will be a little slow If we start pounding Babs they won't be able to keep up and won't be able to buy anything. Might keep the flood gates of techs at bay. Then right before education trade for the rest of the contacts and hope for the best.
Then again Babs only has two contacts. I guessing they found another island with only two civs on it.

Hmmm! how very intersting.
Lets finish off the Zulu now they are gassed Plus the Pyramids are oooohh so nice.
I say go for the GLB. If we only buy one contacts do you think the tech pace will be a little slow If we start pounding Babs they won't be able to keep up and won't be able to buy anything. Might keep the flood gates of techs at bay. Then right before education trade for the rest of the contacts and hope for the best.
Then again Babs only has two contacts. I guessing they found another island with only two civs on it.

Do you think that we need all this to finish the game? With FP in the center and Pyramids domination will come very soon. The fact that Babs manage to make contact says, that most Civs will be accessible with Lighthouse. We have a good chanse for Diety BC victory. I think TGLib (or GLB) will not have time to pay back much. Or, at least we will capture it after. But nobody will build FP for us.

We don't know how advanced or how big any of the other civs are though. They could be in the MAs already with pikemen, or worse, Muskets.

OTOH, an army of Immortals, the Pyramids, and the GLH could help a lot in securing a Domination victory if the other civs are conquerable when we get there.

OK, we may buy one contact for cash and see. (Normally more expensive is more advanced). However, we can't stop tupaclives to discuss any step he did. I think he may make decision himself. Although this turn is very very important. At similar situation (GOTM, Diety, France) I used GL for GLB. But I was much more behind than. Since we are scientific I'd relay on our own research power, that means GL for FP, Libs in core Cities.
My vote is GL for FP.

I forgot about FP, and in vanilla it's more usefull (I normally play conquest). Most likely the othe civs will be more advanced then Glib will help. Otherwise get FP in center of known world?

It is up to tupaclives, but I still vote for the GLib for a few reasons. If we plan to take out the rest of our continent, we will have many chances to get another GL. Even if we don't, we can always build the FP normally. We will get at least 13 techs from the GLib. So what it really comes down to is will the reduced corruption allow us to aquire those techs easier than the GLib would? I think we could build the FP faster than we could get all those techs if we rushed the FP with our GL.

It is up to tupaclives, but I still vote for the GLib for a few reasons. If we plan to take out the rest of our continent, we will have many chances to get another GL. Even if we don't, we can always build the FP normally. We will get at least 13 techs from the GLib. So what it really comes down to is will the reduced corruption allow us to aquire those techs easier than the GLib would? I think we could build the FP faster than we could get all those techs if we rushed the FP with our GL.
All may be. I only recomend do not relay on Ai's and continue 80-90% research to Republic. And build some Libs.

ok after reviewing everythin (i'll play the turns later today) I've decided I'll go GL for GLB, somewhere secure and away from babs (don't want to lose it early if a sneak attack). I'll start scouting out a good FP location.
In a single player game I wouldn't go for contacts so that way we'd probably lose the GLB about astronomy, or maybe even navigation instead of education, but since the consensus is to buy the contacts thats what I'll do.

Hmmm...so staying secluded when you have the GLib can get you techs beyond education?:mischief: I never knew that...:blush:

@Moxxa, yep, if you say, are secluded on an island by yourslef with the great library and don't make contact with any other civs until they are in the IA and the first two civs that you encounter are both up to say Rep Parts, you'll get every tech they both have, although then obviously it expires. This is how the Great Library Capture Slingshot works. For a full example you can see either Tupac05, or Tupac02, or Sid Vicious and the Magnificent 7+1 (my favourite game to read).

I think goign for the GLB will have the best return, armies aren't so hot in Vanilla, although still useful. And whats all this you're talking about capturing the Great Lighthouse???
Have you seen the save? babylon is a monster, if we go to war anytime soon we'll be lucky to SURVIVE! :lol:

Anyway on with the turnset...

Turn 5 (650 BC) continued - Send the GL toward Susa, which I set to wealth for a turn (Leader won't get there till next turn). Switch Pasargadae over to a regular Library at cost of 5 shields.

IT - we lose the redlined, Darius-producing Immortal to a Zulu sword. (8-1)

Turn 6 (630BC) - pasgadae finishes its Lib and (now at size 7) can do 10spt a turn without corruption, if we get that mountain mined it can do 3-turn Immortals for us. I'll make that a priority.

Suddenly it occurs to me... wtf am I doing? We are moving toward Zimbabwae with just 8 immortals... lets see... deity... Capital... Wonder... there'll be around 10 Impi's probably, as well as the swords they'll be producing. They're no doubt still in a GA at the moment so are probably building a sword-a-turn in Zimbabwae...

Getting the pyramids may take a little longer than expected. I decide to make a tactical withdrawal to wait for more immortals. If we wait another 5 turns or so we can have almost 20 immortals for the attack, while the number of defenders is unlikely to increase (they'll most likely keep building swords).

Have to shuffle around the MP's to prevent riots in the interturn. Bapedi still hasn't had any resitors quelled so I take our 2 immortals out and abandon the city.

IT - babs and Aztecs make peace.

Turn 7 - (610 BC) Go to trade Lit to Babs (before we rush the GLB) and... oh. 1 Contact is only 'doubtful'... looks like that may make our contact decision easier. Secluded we stay.
Rush the GLB in Susa. Babs are up Construction and Monarchy. Trade lit to Babs for 25gp and a World map, that way we know where to run suicide galleys if we want to make contacts. Plus given that a contact is 'doubtful' for it I suspect either the babs are nearly finished researching it themselves or one or more of their contacts have it already.
Both contacts are to our south, seperate island. Both are clearly still in AA (based on their city appearance), Iro have all the gems, Eng have all the spices. We can probably send suicide galley's to make contact if we wish. Leave that for after Zulu war I'd suggest though.
kill 2 aztec swords (10-1) and...

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/3724/leadered4.jpg

woot!!!!
This lad will go and stay in Persopolis (too far away to form an army that could be useful in time, no wonders, no obvious FP site. We can discuss a FP site).

IT - Babs re-declare on the Aztecs... wow... cheap...
see a Zulu impi-settler trio (2 impis) head toward where Ulundi used to be... hmmm... that means 2 less defenders (potentially) in Zimbab...

Turn 8 (590 BC) - Great Lib completes and we resume Immortal production in Susa. Get almost 10 immortals in attack range of Zimbab for next turn with another 8 due the following 2 turns.

IT - the Zulu beg for peace... haha I think not! Lose an immortal flawlessly to a sword (arg!) (10-2) foolishly the Zulu send another impi-settler pair out. Kudos Shaka... Kudos...

Turn 9 (570 BC)- Pasgadae gets culture expansion which gives us more tile options, we can get over 10spt and continute growing now.
Nineveh (next to Pasgadae...) completes the Hanging Gardens. I see flips-a-poppin coming to town...
Babs have more than double our score, about 10 times our culture and are going to have nothing to do once they kill the Aztecs... things could get ugly...
The First Siege of Zimbabwae begins!
Immortals (4 attack) v impi's (2 defence + 25% (fortified) + 50% (city) + 10% (wheat) (total of 3.7 defence)

4/4 immortal kills 4/4 Impi (1/4)
4/4 immortal loses to 4/4 impi (3/4)
4/4 immortal loses to 4/4 impi (1/4)
4/4 immortal kills 4/4 impi (4/4)
4/4 immortal kills 4/4 impi (2/4) revealing an unfortified 4/4 sword
3/4 immortal kills 4/4 sword (1/4) revealing another
4/5 immortal kills 4/4 sword (4/5) revealing a fortified unhurt 3/3 impi

And thats all our attacks this turn. More next turn. (15-4)

IT - The babs destroy the Aztecs... wonder what their next move will be...
The Zulu found a new Ulundi 3 tiles from Zimbabwae.

Turn 10 - Hlobane riots...
The siege of Zimbabwae continues... with a misclick... accidently have a 1/4 immortal start off poceedings :blush:

luckily he wins unscathed and I look awesome :mischief:
1/4 immortal kills 4/4 impi (1/4)
4/4 immortal loses to 4/4 impi (4/5)
4/5 Cyrus kills 4/5 impi (2/5)
4/4 immortal kills 4/4 impi (1/4)
Every1 else is too injured to continue fighting. Move the remaining 6 (unhurt immortals) into attack range for next turn. Looks like someone else will get the glory blow at Zimbabwae.

(18-5)

Zimbab SHOULD fall next turn as long as there isn't some god-awful RNG luck.

All builds are vetoable, I don't think there's too much to say. Get Zimbabwae, make peace for as many cities as possible (they will found a new city in the IT) especially the size 1-no culture cities so we don't have to worry about flips. Alternatively we continue on to Bapedi to secure our own source of dyes.
Find an FP site, the leader awaits it.
Going for the GLB proved correct I believe, although the fact we couldn't buy contacts is a bummer (I reloaded later to see what they would have cots... Lit + 370gp (of oour 401gp at the time and doing deficit research) for the cheapest.) I still believe we can make contact with suicide galleys if we wish.

Good luck!

I see all this good luck as a bad sign. I mean, you drop a fortified 4/4 impi with a 1/4 immortal and get another leader as soon as our last one is used for the GLib. Now on my turn, all my 4/4 immortals will die to a 1/4 impi. Our military will be "weak" compared to Babylon's now and they will over run us in 2 turns.

"Got it" and will play later tonight or some time tomorrow.

yes I'm a little concerned about all the good luck, its not normal. Hopefully should be too much more to take down Zimbab. the babs are already strong against us and are just massive... they're gunna be really hard to fight in the short term.

Maybe building catapults was a good idea after all...

Ahhhh... :blush: after your earlier comment I switched the builds... we in fact only have 2 catapults...

Preturn: First thing I notice is that the Aztecs have been wiped from the face of our island. Next, I do lots of MMing to maximize growth and minimize waste / corruption. I won't get into details, but we are slightly more efficent now. Builds all look good.

IT: Zulus settle Isandhlwana 1 tile SE of our stack of 3 slaves, 1 settler and 1 spearman. They attack, kill our spearman with an archer (0-1), and take our guys. See what I was saying about the good luck? Babs are building the GW.

Turn 1: Kill the 2 remaining Impis in Zimbabwe (2-1) and raze the city. :devil: Just kidding.:mischief: We now control the Pyramids.:D

IT: Nothing

Turn 2: ??? size 1 city NE of Zimbabwe is autorazed. (3-1) Preparing for the assault on Bapedi and Isand-whatever.

IT: Quell 2 of 7 resisters in Zimbabwe and make them taxmen.

Turn 3: Just moving troops into place and MMing.

IT: Nothing

Turn 4: Kill Zulu archer. (4-1) Still moving our Immortals...

IT: Ham demands our TM and 37 gold. I give it to him...this time...

Turn 5: Kill Impi (5-1) in Isandhl-whatever and its autorazed.

IT: Zulu sword attacks an Immortal on a mountain and dies. (6-1) Impi attacks the same Immortal and wins. (6-2)

Turn 6: Kill Zulu archer. (7-2) Lose to sword. (7-3) Lose to Impi. (7-4) Lose to another Impi. (7-5)

IT: Lose yet another Immortal on an mountain to a sword. (7-6)

Turn 7: Kill Zulu archer that was dropped off by some unprotected towns from a galley. (8-6) Lose 2 Immortals to Impis, but kill one. (9-8) Kill an Impi trying to steal our cats. (10-8)

IT: Nothing

Turn 8: Kill 2 Impis and a sword, losing 2 Immortals (11-10), but finally take Bapedi and the Zulu's only source of Iron. They are down to one city. Ham now knows Republic, but we will learn it in 2 turns.

IT: Hlobane and Zimbabwe riot. Oops...

Turn 9: Nothing really, just a little MMing and worker moves. Our forces are all healing.

IT: Nothing

Turn 10: We learn Republic. I set our research to Currency at 90%. We will get it in 10 turns.

I had HORRIBLE luck with the RNG this turn. All the battles, except the first one with our worker and settler stack, had odds that favored me, but we were still almost 50/50. I decided not to build the FP yet because I think we should discuss it a little more since its such a big decision. My idea is to move our palace to Susa and build the FP on the south end of the island. We have some grasslands, rivers hills and coastal tiles down there and its mostly unsettled now.

I have been stacking our Immortals in Bactra for an eventual assault on the 3 southern most Babylonian towns, starting with their iron town. We also have enough Immortals in Zimbabwe and Bapedi to finish off the Zulu, but if we can resettle the lands fast enough, I see no reason why we would have to do that in the next 20 turns, other than the flip risk of Zimbabwe, but I have been starving and taxing them. Do you guys do this in towns you capture with a lot of resisters?

Everything is vetoable. Might need to do a little MMing too because of all the growth.

Teh <<<SAVE>>> (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/104753/Moxxa_330_BC.SAV)

Where is the save after Moxxa turnset? What you did with Leaders?
Why nobody bring Babs to alliance vs Zulu? Why nobody trade contacts?

You must be watching this thread closely! The save is added to the turnlog post. I didn't use the GL yet. I though it better to discuss it first.

I see save and will open it soon. I thought 10 turns with GL is too much. Babs indeed too strong...

OK, looked at save:
FP obviously in Gordium. It is center of the continent + many Cattels near for ICP.
Looking at map I do not think that English and Iroquez are very advanced. I think it will take too long to use GLB. I vote to buy contacts now. Probably we will get some cash from them.
To make things cheaper I'd like to combine this deal with Alliance VS ZULU. We will kill them soon and our gpt will gone. Also (Important!) they will go to south part of the continent and we may arrange massive slaughter of their army there. I also plan to revolt to Republic. Set research to 0 and short-rush immortals for war with Babs. Any plans for that war?

Hey Moxxa,

"..but I have been starving and taxing them. Do you guys do this in towns you capture with a lot of resisters?"

I use this as a standard tactic.

Just love watching.

Blaze Injun

It looks that nerovats appears. Can we discuss things?
As I can see En and Iro not very advanced. They contact each other late and have not very good land. I think there is no big difference contact them now or later. Most important to work out good plan vs Babilons.
Also revolt: why not now? Normally before finish one AI I make GPT deal and pay nothing as a result.
If we relolt now and will have 6 turns anarchy, say we will not have large gpt to buy Construction or Contact. Well, we do not need both ATM, I think.

Will first open save before I can comment on what to do. Will do so tomorrow morning. Must decide what to do with leader. We should not waste a leader for a whole turnset. Then stop and discuss first. Now we probably should rush FP somewhere, as said I need to look at save first.
Ivan up
me on deck?

Will first open save before I can comment on what to do. Will do so tomorrow morning. Must decide what to do with leader. We should not waste a leader for a whole turnset. Then stop and discuss first. Now we probably should rush FP somewhere, as said I need to look at save first.
Ivan up
me on deck?
Yes, me up, and you on Deck.
Actually GL was before Moxxa turnset.
OK, I will wait your coments. We should workout plan of how to deal with Babylons. I think I will stay most of the turnset in Anarchy, and the only things I'll do is units regroup.
My vote for FP in Gordium. Do we need Construction?

Get FP in Gordium.
Revolt to republic.
Don't buy contacts, to expensive, better buy ship after revolt, or buy for gpt and declare, but I don't favour that. Besides, they are most likely behind in techs.
Looks like the remaining AI have the largest island and probably will be more advanced. So slow research and try to meat them a bit late?
Would like to secure the continent, and take out babs, we've a strong military now, but babs has better cities. We should not wait until they get pikes or worse. Immortals are strong so we should take advantage of that as long as we can.
Build settlers in cities that need an aquaduct the others should grow.

What to do on long term, wait for other ai to find us, then buy the other contact for GLib to work? Looks like the other islands are not reachable with lighthouse yet. Should get contruction to get free tech, see what we can do with it.

OK, this is plan.
I'd like to have in mind HOW we will eal with Babs?

what does eal stand for?

I think its supposed to say "deal'.

Dealing with them will be tricky. We need some defense in the north. we are pretty bare up there ATM. Since we are in republic now. short quick wars are the way to go.
Try to take out the two former aztec cities to the SW. The city just north of our captial. And Nivevah. There is alot of culture pressure from that city.
Sue for peace as needed, reload try again.

Staying seculed may be the better choice now for the GLB and take the tech ride when the other AIs find us.

I usually find it best to first cut out the hart, then clean up the smaller cities.

Not looking at the save right now but I'd agree with nero, that we should aim to cut out their heart. Nineveh would be a nice prize with the HG but the risk of flipping would be through the roof... hell with our culture, even if we wiped out the babs it would probably flip to England or Iroquois!

The problem with going direct for Babylon is this... if Babylon is a way behind the lines we won't survive long enough to reach it.

The babs are so much more powerful than us and we just can't defend against them, if their forces who marched down to Aztecland are anything to go by. Whatever we do we have to do it quickly, and it has to be a short sharp strike. if it becomes a war of attrition we will lose, no question.

I think we should target their iron town first as it is on the border anyway. We should also build some horsemen to help escort our immortals. They can pick off the stray units that the AI will use to attack our immortals. It might be a good idea to plan a simultaneous strike against the iron town and Nineveh, eliminating thier culture pressure and offensive threat in one quick swoop.

I' v played 4 turns and come to this:
I think we have no alternative as front attack of Babylons.
Ninevekh first and then who knows.
I think I will declare next turn. 2 turns ago our troops were avarage.
Any other good ideas?

Yes, take their IRON!!!:D

@ moxxa
It a great plan except they have two sources. And one of there sources is on the other side of there core. (ashur)

I would create 2 stacks, 10-12 go to Nineve (attack from mountain) 8-10 go south. This already is about the distribution of the units. Change libs to immortals. We need all units we can get. Mabybe get some more cats out of cities with no barracks, partly buying?
Do buy 1 ship to contact the 2 ai.

Why not take a galley or two full of spearmen to pillage Ashur's Iron, then fortify on the hill? They would throw a lot of units at them, especially if we do that first. Then, at the same time, attack Nineveh and their other Iron source. The AI will have no idea what hit it and will probably just wander back and forth while our Immortals and hopefully horsemen too, rape and pillage. We already have all the units we need to start other than the horses and galleys.

EDIT: Either that or sign ROP with them for 26 gold. It would be faster, and if we conquer the other two AI's quickly enough, we can still save our rep.

I prefer immortals over horses, attack of 4 and distances are short. Like the idea of 4 spears, then buy 2 ships. Don't like to RoP-rape.

I see nothing wrong with RoP rape because it has its negative consequences. It would then be our goal to overcome that rep hit by either eliminating all the people who might spread these rumors about us or rebuilding credit with loans. I know some people think its cheap, but I personally see nothing wrong with it. It's Hammurabi's fault for being so naive and trusting.

Have a look, please.
I captured Nineveh and hold it 2 turns. Flip prob 11-25%.
It needs 200+ troops to eleminate flip.
However defence of Nineveh takes more troops than I thought before.
Babylons agree to talk.
We may
A) disband Nineveh and continue war
B) Disband and make a peace
C) Continue war
D) Leave Nineveh and make a peace.
I do not want to take sole responsibility for that tough decision.
In D) variant we may gift Nineveh to Iroques, probably their culture better, then ours.

Hmm, thats a lot of swords. Probably should have pillaged the Iron by Ashur then fortified 4 spears on the hill dropped by some galleys. That would have thinned out their army really well at little cost to us and prevented them from making more swords.

Disband Nineveh and resettle 1 SE. (EDIT: Oh wait, we have no settlers...) Too bad we put the FP up in such a hurry too. Nineveh would have been better so we can keep the HGs and eliminate the flip risk. Change all the spearmen builds to horsemen or Immortals. If we can hold off their first wave we should be able to take them out I think. After that, the game is pretty much won.

EDIT: Either that or make peace then go pillage and fortify the Iron hill with some spearmen. That's probably the best way if we want to win.

OK, we agreed to disband Nineveh.
Spearmen for short-rush. Galleys are difficult because of Babs naval superiority.

Do FP cities not flip in vanilla?

They never have in my experience. In my last solo Diety game I captured London which was home to the GLib and Pyramids. It flipped 3 turns later, so I ignored it and went for York, home of the HGs. I got a GL while taking York, so I went back and recaptured London where I rushed the FP. I only left one horseman there and it never flipped back in spite of having 6 resisters. York flipped back, though, a few turns later so I saved it for last so I didn't have to raze it. I now controlled three quarters of my continent and three good wonders. Needless to say, the rest of the game was easy after that. It was my first Space Race victory on Diety and evidence that a FP city won't flip. Maybe I just got lucky though.

Lurker:

I cannot be sure, but I seemed to recall FP can flip in vanilla. I am pretty sure I seen that posted a few times, but it could have been PTW. Only the capitol cannot flip for sure.

FP defenetly flips in Vanila. Capital do'nt.
So I rushed Palace in Nineveh. Hope it will help. Unfortunately we have no force to continue war. Have finished turset, will write turnlog soon.

Having a look at the save. I'd vote for peace now, getting contacts as part of the deal, then prepare for a re-DOW in 20 turns time and make another small push. As for the palace, good move I say, we get better returns on the FP with the new location.

The contacts (thus techs thru the GLB) plus the HG are a good prize for this first war. We focus on mil build up and strike again 20 turns time would be my vote.

0 330*BC
See Babylon’s Galley. They definitely will unload settler.
Move immortals and workers to block coast. Bring GL to Gordium. MMn something.
Revolt. Got 4 turns Anarchy. Good!
IBT
Zulu’s Galley sails. Babs have more Galleys. They unload settler near Incenses.
1 310*BC
Build Colony and pillage Incenses near Settler. Make MA vs Zulu for Horse, Incenses. They pay back WM and 31 gold. Try to get contact but have not enough gpt at Anarchy.
IBT
Babs sank Zulu Galley. Move stack to zulu’s Capital. FP in Gordium.
2 290*BC
Move forward…
IBT
Babs stack moves. GW in Babylon.
3 270*BC
Took zulu’s Capital. We won, alliance over. Decided not to make any deal to have reputation clean. Regrouped to war with Babs.
IBT
Bab’s stack moves back.
4 250*BC
We are at Republic and make 100 gpt approx. Move Vet spear at Mounting near Nineveh. MMn for shortrush.
IBT
Babs 1 spear and 1 bow have moved to our Land.
5 230*BC
Trade WM with Babs for 13 gold. Asked: “Remove or declare”. They declare.
Killed spear and bowman, moved 5 Immortals to Nineveh and Tlateloco .
IBT
Babs Counter-attack Nineveh’s stack. Spear wounded, 1 immortal killed.
6 210*BC
First siege of Nineveh. All won, 2 redlined, 2 remain full health (4/4).
Capture Tlateloco. Fight south of Gordium. Some reinforcements to Nineveh.
IBT
Babs stack moves to Tlateloco. Swords come to Nineveh.
7 190*BC
Capture Nineveh. It have nothing but 9 resistors and HG. Killed some swords around. Moved to Nippur.
IBT
Swords attack Nineveh. Lot of swords come closer to Nineveh. Bab’s Stack goes back to Nippur.
8 170*BC
Killed swords near Nineveh without loses. But…
IBT
Babylons killed all Immortals near Nineveh. WW appears. Some Cities riot.
9 150*BC
This looks as 50-50% war. We definitely will loose it vs Babs. Also Nineveh will flip back. Fight again. Got GL. Rush PALACE in Nineveh. Now it will not flip. Move stack to Nippur.
IBT
The same Immortal loses. Palace in Nineveh.
10 130*BC
Capture Nippur. Kill more swords.

Having a look at the save.
1)I'd vote for peace now, getting contacts as part of the deal, then prepare for a re-DOW in 20 turns time and make another small push.

2) As for the palace, good move I say, we get better returns on the FP with the new location.

3) The contacts (thus techs thru the GLB) plus the HG are a good prize for this first war. We focus on mil build up and strike again 20 turns time would be my vote.
Re:3) We may take Sushpurak + cash for peace, I think it is more important than contacts.
Re:1) I vote for shorter peace, I think we will not need reputation. If we not going for Diplo win, I'd like to make RoP rape as well. I'm affraid that after 20 turns Babs will have Pickmen and war will be mor difficult. Also we *must* make a strike at Capital and Pillage Iron ASAP.
Re:2) I also think, that keep NINEVEH as central location is very important.
Unfortunately now FP and Palace too close. But we may Jump PALACE again when will have another GL.

Wow, and this whole time I've been using the FP to prevent flips.:blush: I must have just been getting lucky!:D

Yes, next time we go to war with the babs we must have a better plan, although we didn't do so bad. One idea should be to capture the GLH city later in the war so we don't have to raze it or worry about flips. That THIRD :) GL really came at a convinient time.

I also agree with our rep not being so important right now. I'm all for the "RoP rape" plan. Put as many spearmen on that iron hill as we can afford. Hopefully at least 4.

Is there a save?

Is there a save?
At post 119

Hmmm...I don't have much experience with overseas warfare, but England and the Iroquois look pretty hard to crack. They both have iron and horses and walls in most of their towns. Once we own our island we will be huge though. Huge enough to outresearch them to Military Tradition and take them out with cavalry. SS win would be pretty easy too. Just an idea.

Reputation-schmeputation, we've already lost it but I am 150% against RoP rape or phony peace. These are exploits and I think we are good enough to win without lowering ourselves and our standards.

I am very firmly against either of those moves, Shurupak + Cash for peace is fine with me though, whatever we do though I expect us to honour the 20 turns of peace and to not indulge in RoP rape.

They aren't exploits. In no way are you taking advantage of a programming error or glitch or anything like that. It's how the game was designed. Its almost like saying that not automating your workers is an exploit because the AI has such poor worker management or building 95% corrupt cities in ICS formation then irrigating all the land to make science farms is an exploit.

If in your games you don't want to use these strategies, that's fine. I think that they are perfectly fine to use and will encourage them if they are the best route to victory.

I guess I just don't understand how breaking a peace treaty or RoP agreement could be considered exploits.:confused:

Because Phony peace and Rop Rape are listed as exploits under the RBC rules and they are the ones I always use, either in SG's or in solo games.

Got it. Here is my plan.

Think we need peace now, prefer to get the contacts in stead of useless city. Then first get 3-4 settlers out to claim the land then back to immortals. Agree we don't want to wait to long before attack. Get some spears on then iron on same turn of declare. Go after big cities first, the're are just 5 of them. Should declare in 9 after capitol expands, easier to use horses on defence with few losses.

Play later today or tomorrow if plan agreed.

Because Phony peace and Rop Rape are listed as exploits under the RBC rules and they are the ones I always use, either in SG's or in solo games.

For GOTM/HoF both are alowed, most players use those rules. But I agree on RoP rape, peace making every turn to demand tech every turn is also considered a cheet in my book, but I don't think we have to wait 20.

At peace we may make contact ourself. But Shushpurak is important City, it control (Observe) galley's passes. It also will take some time to take it.
tupaclives: Reputation-schmeputation, we've already lost it but I am 150% against RoP rape
We did not lost our reputation yet! However,
I do not understand, how we may pillage Babs Iron withot RoP rape. As we are going to brake our trade reputation, RoP reputation is not a big deal.
Long term plan
I think we may not research at all or may be Chivalry only after we will get Feo from GLB. With GLH our war vs Iro and England safe. We may unload on Iron and pillage it straight.

How are we going to pillage the iron without RoP Rape? Be more creative... buy a galley now, get two spears, sit just outside the Bab border, as soon as the new war starts land ontop of the iron and then next turn disconnect it. That way no RoP rape.
Also looking at the save why do we want Shurupak for peace? Its a useless nothing city. Also why do we have an incense colony? We need all the workers we can get, we already have several incense sources (we only need 1...) so why waste workers on colonies?

I'm going to be away from today until the 10th of January so please skip me in any rounds I come up in. I may be able to check the forums and take part in discussion but I won't actually be able to play until the 10th Jan.

1)How are we going to pillage the iron without RoP Rape? Be more creative... buy a galley now, get two spears, sit just outside the Bab border, as soon as the new war starts land ontop of the iron and then next turn disconnect it. That way no RoP rape.
2) Also looking at the save why do we want Shurupak for peace? Its a useless nothing city.
3) Also why do we have an incense colony? We need all the workers we can get, we already have several incense sources so why waste workers on colonies?
1) Culter Border of Babs cover Coast Tiles. We may not stay with Spears on Galley without RoP. Also, if we land just 2 spears Babs will kill it at once.
2) It will shorter way of Babs Galleys to our back. Also, it is unpleasant to have City behind our back when carry out war. Sending Immortals there and back to front is time consuming.
3) It was the same reason of fast motion. Unlike "normal" game we have exessive amount of workers. Colony permits to build road in 1 turn.

Will play tomorrow

Pre-turn
Make peace for Surapak, 35 gold, 11 gpt, WM (will get techs from GLib later, maybe better not meet both contacts now, kill 1 then meet next to optimize GLib effect).
Change Arbela, Teotihuacan, Hlobane to settlers
Nineveh, Bactra to barracks
Change several citizens
Now making 124 gpt, buy 2 settlers
110BC
Teotihuacan settler->cat
Arbela, Hlobane settler->settler
Sell incense for 27 gold, 2 gpt and WM
lower lux, create new scientist
90BC
Gordium immortal-> baracks (overloked that)
70BC
Bactra rax->immortal
Found Sidon, Tyre -> cat
use workers to block coastline
buy another settler
50BC
Arbela Settler->settler
Nineveh rax->immortal
30BC
nothing
IBT
Babs lands settler pair
10BC
Settle Sardis and Samaria, both cat, no more room for Babs to settle, accept for jungle, but we can overtake her.
10AD
use workers to give babs a detour to jungle.
When the mountain south of Bactra is mined it will give 15 spt.
Stop here to decide what to do attack now, or wait long.
We got lot of gold to buy galleys or units (1010 gold and making 155 gpt).
Our army is average again, we have 25 immortals, 7 horses, 4 cats, just 1 galley.
We should settle 2 more cities in jungle 1 can be on river.

I say use all gold now, and attack asap. Taking Babylon, Akkad and Ellipi will be enough to cripple babs so much that she won't be a treath anymore.

144050

144051

That's a lot of cows near Ellipi! :yumyum:

BTW, why switch the palace do Nineveh? No flip risk? :)

OK I got it.
I play in the next day or two.

Do we really want to trash our trading rep. by declaring on Babs?
I will try and get them with a Move or declare with the settling pair. But How long do you keep trying that before open war.

As for the Iron near ashur even if you have the troops and boats in the right positions now it would be five turns to the pillage their Iron by Boat (avoiding ROP) Five Turns by Land right now. But in two Turns with palace expansion maybe closer.

I feel when I do get to a War I going to be razing cities (except Ashur). Or if they have a miltary usefulness.

Any other ideas or suggestions.

Yes raze cities, can keep them the first turn though to move units trough faster, then abandon them the next turn. Flip risks will be huge.

1) Do we really want to trash our trading rep. by declaring on Babs?
2)I will try and get them with a Move or declare with the settling pair. But How long do you keep trying that before open war.

3) As for the Iron near ashur even if you have the troops and boats in the right positions now it would be five turns to the pillage their Iron by Boat (avoiding ROP) Five Turns by Land right now. But in two Turns with palace expansion maybe closer.

4) I feel when I do get to a War I going to be razing cities (except Ashur). Or if they have a miltary usefulness.

Any other ideas or suggestions.
1) Well with gpt peace will continued 40 turns. So no way but break.
2) Yes, and block position where they may settle.
3) It may be possible to pillage it fast with combat settler, after ABANDING Babylon at second turn of war.
4) Probably other Cities (not Babylon) not that flippy...

Hey guys. I was out of town the last 4 days with no way to check here but I'm back.

If we are going to wait 40 turns to attack, we should make some catapults. Lots of catapults. They will have pikes that we will need to bombard. I like to build cats anyway because they upgrade so well.

Waiting 40 turns to attack again doesn't sound like a bad idea to me. It will give us time to make at least 40 cats and enough immortals to take them out quickly. Just don't be surprised if we lose a city or two to culture flips in that time.

RoP rape FTW.

Selling the incense was not my brightest moment, but I agree with Ivan we can't wait 40 turns. If we have this island we'll be ok and won't need reputation.

Pre-turn
Some Short Rushing and Rush or Immortals and spear.
Babs Move or Declare (move)

Turn 1 (30AD):
Troop Movement
Babs Move or Declare (move)
Trying to Box in the settler pair

Turn 2 (50AD):
Move OR Declare we are at WAR.
Loose Horse on Settler Pair. (0-1)
Kill Bowman and Sword Moving on Babylon and Eliphi. (2-1)
Adjust Slider to 20%
And More Rushing of Troops.

IBT:
Loose Horse on Defense. (2-2)
They have PIKES

Turn 3 (70AD):
Kill Spear and 2x Sword (5-2)

IBT: Loose 2 Exposed Immortals (5-3)

Turn 4 (90AD):
Kill 2 Pikes and 4 Bowmen and Babylon Loose 2 Imm. (11-5) One attacker Short. One yellowed bowmen left.
Kill 3 Bowmen at Eliphi (14-5)

IBT:
Loose 3 Imm kills 2 swords on defense (14-5)

Turn 5 (110AD):
Lux to 30%
Retreat from Babylon New Pike
Kill 3 swords, 2 bowmen 1 spear around Ninevah Loose 1 imm. (20-6)

IBT:
Loose 1 Imm and Horse (20-7)

Turn 6 (130AD):
Lux up to 40%
Kill One sword (21-7)

IBT:
Loose spear and 2 Imm on defense. (21-11)

Turn 7 (150AD):
Kill 3Swords 1Bowmen Around Nineveh (24-11)

IBT: Loose Imm to a yellowed spear (24-12)

Turn 8 (170AD):
Meet the Iroquois
Trade republic for WM 40GP 5 GPT and Contact with England
Kill 2 Swords (26-12)

IBT: Learn Currency, Construction, Monarchy and Monotheism

Turn 9 (190AD):
Set Research to Engineering Babs has both Feudalism and Eng
Kill 1Pike 2 Bowmen, 1 Spear and 1 Sword Around Nineveh (31-12)

IBT:
Loose spear on Defense (31-13)

Turn 10 (210AD):
Kill 1 sword (32-13)

OK My first stack was cut down pretty quick on the way to the iron. The Assualt on babylon was one attacker short. And it was a defense war after that. I do have have some troops amassed again to go another round if we want to now.
Babylon is willing to make peace for some cash or a discount on a tech. I am sure we will get the tech soon anyways.
I was short rushing immortals / spear where shield output made sense.

They Like to Approach Ninevah to the North East through the Forest.

If this war continues much longer a Change to Monarchy might be needed. otherwise The lux keeps going up. We are at 40% with a lot of Specialist.
I was starving Ninevah to a more managable Babs Pop.

And Our Rep is still intact.

The Save:144194

Alright guys. I'm going to have to drop from this game due to RL issues. Too much going on with school right now and I'm moving halfway across the country. It's also a little frustrating to see my opinions and ideas completly ignored for the most part anyway, so no big deal.

I hope you guys have fun with this and finish successfully.

OK, Moxxa, hope you was not that dissapointed. Team management is a tough buisiness.
BTW, anybody want to play SGTOM 12 with me?

I got file. Will look and discuss. I think better to take Feo for peace, Make RoP and declare without mercy. We are at risk to lose if we will continue this war.
I think we may better prepare before ask "remove or declare".
Looked at save. Again, I think the only resonable move is to make RoP, go pillage Iron and strike Assur and Babylon.
If for training reason we want to have reputation clean, OK, but I am not sure, that we finish the game soon.

Don't make peace, our forces are now strong compared to babs. Be brave use gold to get even more units and move all in. We must secure the island.

@Ivan might play SGOTM12 depending on game rules and team. Congrats on your 3rd place.

Since Tupac needs to be skipped until the 10th of januari, and Moxxa is out, I think Ivan is up.

Thanks. First medal, that I did not expected. X-man was too strong in my game...

I am up, will play today and/or tomorrow.
Dunno, may be false peace better?

For the training reason decided to continue war. Disband Babylon and capture ASSUR.
Unfortunately WW become that big that we have to make peace. Or trade Lux with England/ Iro and contiue. Or revolt to Monarchy. :confused:
Let's look and discuss.
Nerovats up.Will write TL soon.
Ivan.
@ nerovats: How you manage to make 100k that soon? I mean both, time (less than 8 hours) and date? AFAIK SGTOM12 is something about Diplomacy twist...

Do not favour peace yet, need at least the 2 big cities. Might want to abandon Ashur for the flip risk. Should get some settlers from cities with happyness issues. We sould get the luxes for monotheism I think.

@ Ivan what 100K game do you mean?

Ashur has the GLH so if we abandon or it flips we will not be able to trade Luxs to English or the Iroq.
SOmething to keep in mind.

1) Do not favour peace yet, need at least the 2 big cities.
2) Might want to abandon Ashur for the flip risk.
3) Should get some settlers from cities with happyness issues.
4) We sould get the luxes for monotheism I think.

5) @ Ivan what 100K game do you mean?

1) OK, up to you. Trade lux. Up to you to revolt or not.
2) Please, do not abandon Ashur, With it we may trade now and have good chance to finish all before Astronomy! Leave 2-3 Immortals to recapture if flip.
3) OK
4) Better Lux to Lux+ gpt.
5) I mean CGTOM Japan.

I'll wait for turnlog before play. Several people will be away for x-mas so maybe better to slow game speed a bit for now.

In COTM I finished the persians at about 1000BC, then concluded all others would be on another continent not reachable with galleys. Since it would still take some time to get GLH or caravels, and I hadn't played a 100K game in a while I decided to go for that. Then turns go quick as it requires far less planning (and moving of units) then going to war. Just expand and get culture. Just placing some samurai to be able to fight of some landings. Date could have been improved a lot if I had planned on going 100K form start as then I would have placed my starting cities differently to allow aditional ones in the latter part of the game.

0 210*AD
Move some troops and short-rush something. By mistake move immortal and spearman to exposed position
IBT
Babs kill spear and Immortal. Swords from North approach Nineveh.
1 230*AD
Kill Swords IBT Babylon-Nineveh. Kill bow near Ellipi.
Kill sword near Suspurak.
Move settlers toward to front. Stop Workers on Mounting to build road in the forest near Nineveh.
IBT
Swords at North move closer to Nineveh.
2 250*AD
Kill swords at north. Move stack to Babylon. Found Hamadan. Move stack to Ellipi. Bombar Galley near Suspurak. Lost Galley vs wounded Galley.
IBT
Babylon Lose Galley near South coast.
3 260*AD
More troops come to Babylon.
IBT
4 270*AD
Capture Babylon and Ellipi. Kill swords at north. Move Combat settlers to position.
IBT
Looks that Babylon exhausted with swords. Reg Pickman come to Babylon area.
5 280*AD
Sell barracks and Disband Babylon. Found Darius Kabir and Ergili. Bombard and kill Pickman.
IBT
Bow killed 1 Immortal at south.
6 290*AD
Pillage Iron near Assur. Kill Sword at Tundra.
IBT
2 Swords at tundra.
7 300*AD
Capture Assur. WW rises. Even at 60% Lux it is difficult. But we may trade Lux with England and Iroquois now. Stop here, war turns take much time, and I have no it before departure. Will be away 24 Dec – 11 Jan. May discuss things today and tomorrow.
Merry X-mas and Happy New Year.
Ivan.

Ok, think I will play theusday.

Pre turm
get furs for incense 6gpt and 20 gold from iroquois
Why are cities on govner? Can't beat ai on deity using ai tactics.
change Teotihuacan, zimbabwe and hlobane to settlers (no rax's)
change lot of citizens to improve spt per city.
lower lux to 50% now making 23 gpt again.
Gordium, Iron Shanty and Bactra now will produce immortal every other turn.
gather native workers to join cities and save 4 gpt
move units around to strike cities and take out swords in NE
change cities withut rax to catapults.
IBT
lose the 2 horses
succesfully defend against galley we promote
310AD
Arbele cat->settler
trow rocks at Akkad, it drops to size 6!
send in horses (1-2)
then immortals (3-2) and take Akkad with elite no leader.
set Akkad to galley also change more coastal cities to galleys
Then strike Ur with immortals (7-4) gain an elite, again leader fish on last pike, no luck.
Capitol jumped to Samarra as I hoped.
get some bowman and sword running around Ur and capture settler (11-4).
Try to get peace but babylon won't give Eridu nor techs
join 2 workers to Nineveh it's now at 15 spt as well.
Take out sword in NE (13-4)
send some units south to take care of possible landings
rest of units will take Eridu in 2 turns
IBT
lose immortal and 2 slaves (13-5)
defend against ship again, other ships move back north (14-5)
320AD
made mistake in Nineveh, it riots.
Get even more WW but manageble with some clows for another turn or 2.
wow, checkd flip rates last turn Akked had 10-20%, now just a couple because of palace jump. Ur is at 3-6% so will keep it.
kill bowman get elite (15-5)
Now got stacks outside of Eridu
send another to Uruk
330AD
Take Eridu (17-6)
change Nineveh to settler
Now stacks near Kish and Uruk, still no tech for peace cen get cities, but will get those anyway.
Buy settler in Hlobane
IBT
lose spear to longbow (17-7)
340AD
Nineveh settler->immortal
Hlobane settler->galley
Trow rocks at Uruk almost all misses, will wait 1 more turn as 3 more immortals are 1 tile away. Take city next turn.
Take Kish (19-8) -> galley
IBT
Ellipi flipped back.
350AD
WW still managable even with flip
Take Uruk (22-8)
Finish stay sword and longbow (24-8)
Take Lagash (26-8)
Get 2 immortals and a horse next to Ellipi, change Hamadan to horse and wast coupke of shields to be sure we take it next turn.
Can now get Feudalism for peace, but I want Ellipi back first.
Settle Ghulaman->galley
Buy settler in Zimbabwe
360AD
we get Feudalism, engenering and theology from GLib (forgot we had it).
Take back Ellipi (28-8)
Babs won't give invention for peace
Change all Immortals builds to pikeman to help with landings. We got 44 immortals and 21 cats, just 12 spears and 4 galleys. Change the last coastal cities to galleys, need at least 20.
IBT
lose immortal to LB (28-9)
370AD
Ergilli cat->rax
Arbela, Teatihuacan settler->settler
Start to send forces south on automove to prepare invade iro's
Kill the LB (29-9)
kill 2 pikes and a LB in Samarra (32-9)
380AD
seem to have missed a turn writing
390AD
Take Samarra (34-9)
settle Zohak and Istakhr->cat
drop lux to 10%, MM cities we now make 124gpt.
400AD
Settle Jinjan->rax

Most units are on autorun towards Tlacala, next player might wan to turn of animations for a couple of turns. Research will be slow because of our units support so, I sugest to not research at all.
We now have:
12 spears + 10 pikes
24 cats
4 horses
4 galleys
43 immortals
Change most pike builds back to horses. If we updrade the spears we'll have 20 pikes which should do. Buy 20 ships and several more horses to go in fisrt landing, then bring in cats and immortals.
We should be ready to start invasion in 10 turns or so, as soon as trade expires. (just make sure start buying ships in north so they wil be in south in 10 turns).

Still no contact with China and Japan, so no way to tell how advanced they are. Thus it's best to take out iro's fisrt as they are more advanced then English.

I sugest to land on Mountain East of Niagra falls, Defend then settle on the furs and rush harbor. If so we batter take immortals in stead of horses first run as they can move back on the mountain because of the forests.
Otherwise land on the gold mountain east of Akwesasne then we should bring the horses.

144907

144908

OK I got it!

If we really are planning on invading the IRoq.
Should we Switch to Monarchy or play a republic war???

Could check civassist what to do. Do we want to stay at war? Both iro's and english are small islands so war should not take that long. Maybe best just to stay in republic.

Pre-turn:
Start Up some Markets. MM to get more out of Peace.
Start lone Geeks research

IBT:
Iroquois Building Sun Tzu

Turn 1 (410AD):
Rushed Couple of Galleys

Turn 2 (420AD):
Start a search with Suicide Galley and find some Sea tiles to Explore.

IBT: Iroquois Learn Chivalry

Turn 3 (430AD):
Couple Rushes, More Troops Movement. And Worker action
MM the System

Turn 4 (440AD):
MM, Couple of Galley Rushes
Started Irrigation in the old Zulu lands for SCI Farms

Turn 5 (450AD):
Not Much.

Turn 6 (460AD):
More Rushed Galleys and MM for Growth.

Turn 7 (470AD):
ZZZ

Turn 8 (480AD):
Preparing for the Invasion

Turn 9 (490AD):
More Prep.

Turn 10 (500AD):
10 Galley loaded:
With 8 Pikes 11 Imm. 1 settler.
2 Empty Galleys Close to Tlax: to be loaded.
Waiting to be loaded:
23 Immortals
24 Cats
2 Reg Horse
1 Pike

At the start 131 gpt Now at 255 gpt
Still no other contacts for exploring galley. No Land either.

Sorry for the Delay but some RL issues cropped up.

The Save 145159

Let's wait for Ivan and Tupac, they'll be back 11th and 10th. Hope they like what we did.

Yes, it is grate,
see you soon

I'm back, let me know where you want me to slot in. I'll brush up on the past turnlogs and have a look at the save to know where we are at

Wow, guys that was a great, rapid move on the babs good work! Things look very, very solid :lol:

I think tupaclives up. Or, I may play on sunday.
I think we may scout with Galley to find out next target.

I'm up in Tupac06 so if I don't get to this before sunday (I should though), then you can take it.

Pre-turn

Things look great, guess I finish prepping for invasion, hopefully get to do a little :hammer: myself :D
Rush 2 galleys.

IBT - we lose our supply of furs... I don't renew the deal but I think we may have a few riots.

Turn 1 - bactra riots, scroll ahead to prevent any more. Our exploring Galley meets the Japanese. They are still in the ancient age. I trade them Lit for contact with China and their World Map. One look at it and I know that they and China have had a war... and China did VERY badly. An embassy with China is cheaper than one with Japan and it shows they are actually at war now. They will never get anywhere...

IBT – China comes calling for a WM trade, I refuse. English start Sistine’s, Iroquois start Leo’s.

Turn 2 – Thinking of DoWing now. The trouble is anything that we can establish a sea route too (and has a lux) doesn’t have a coastal hill… I decide on an invasion plan. And DoW on the Iroquois. Oh, they have Chivalry by the way… I unload 2 pikemen and 6 Immortals by Centralia and leave the boats on the shore, the rest of the invasion force heads down toward Cattaraugus, with a view to getting a hold of furs.

IBT – no attacks on the first landing group and two visible galleys ignore our stacked fleet.

Turn 3 – lose 2 immortals but kill 3 pikes (3-2) and raze centralia. Unload the main invasion force ontop of the furs by Cattaraugus, and then send three galleys to pick up the Iroquois slave workers, and the rest to head back to pick up more reinforcements.

IBT – a iroqouois galley sinks an empty one of ours (3-3) then an Iroquois sword suicides against the top pike of our SoD. (4-3)

Turn 4 – Lose another two immortals and kill another three pikes at Cattaraugus, razing the city and generating a leader! (7-5) Immediately found ‘Port Furrria’ and disband a slave worker, then, with no possible attacks in the interturn. Rush a harbour (the furs would be great!). Move an eImmortal and a vPike from the Centralia group into Port Furria and fortify, load the rest of that force on to galleys and come to drop them off. Send two Pikes onto the mountain 2SW of Port Furria so they can move onto and then disconnect the Iroquois iron in 2 turns.

I’m going to pause here for discussion for what to do with the leader.

Not sure what everyone would prefer. There are 2 wonders up for grabs, Sistine’s and Sun Tzu’s (leo’s is a bit further along but we could easily save the leader) or do we want an army? An immortal army on the continent would be a ferocious prospect.
If its one of the wonder’s what would we be better off with it on our home continent, or providing culture on the Iroquois continent?
Oh and I finally figured out what that God-awful music playing on my computer is… its Civ III… I can’t believe some people actually like listening to that! :p

I’ll pause for discussion.

If building a wonder I'd prefer Leo for cheeper upgrade. Culture won't help much. I expected Japan and China to be ahead of us looks like it's in the bag now. I prefer an army though unless the iro's are no threath, they should have lot's of units as this is deity, but they haven't attack that much yet.

Where is the save?
It is easer to discuss things with save, or at least with pictures.
I think we may do Palace Jump with Leader, when capture next Iro City.
It will be most effecient ATM.

Turn 4 - Form an army and put 3 immortals in it.

IBT - zzz

Turn 5 - bombard a sword down and kill him with the army (8-5), start the HE in Nineveh, due in 10. Furs are online so fire unneccessary specialists in uncorrupt cities. Move a pike pair onto the Iroquois iron mountain. Load up all our galleys back at the main land, have all the cats and a bunch of immortals en route now.

IBT - Salamanca completes Sistine Chappel, that will be a handy prize from the campaign. A Longbow attacks our Pike pair on top of their iron and dies (9-5).

Turn 6 - Disconnect iro iron. move guys into position, we can start the offensive next turn once all our cats land.

IBT - The iro finally show up, 5 swords and a pike. Guess we won't be marching on Salamanca next turn after all.

Turn 7 - bombard everyone down and kill the lot (15-5).

IBT - zzz

Turn 8 - start moving a SoD toward Salamanca, 17 cats, 5 pikes and 11 immortals. The army, having killed the last of the iro at Port Furria cant join them, but can probably be solely responsible for teh cities defence, or we can wait a turn and it can catch up. Armies really aren't an offensive powerhouse in vanilla, i actually prefer to use them for defence (unless cav armies becaus the blitz ability is fantastic).

IBT - an iro galley attacks our stack of galleys and sinks it taking 2 immortals with it to a watery grave (15-8). A force of 3 more swords show up and a knight+LB pair wil join them next turn.

Turn 9 - kill the 3 swords, retreat the knight and kill the LB (19-8). The army joins our SoD, move toward Salamanca next turn.

IBT - an immortal kills a knight on the defence (20-8).

Turn 10 - move toward Salamanca with the main force. The iroquois have founded a new city to the north where the first city we razed once was. Move a smaller force to destroy it (we can see its defended by a sword). Kill a MW in enemy territory with a horse (21-8), in order to be safe the horse then joins the protection of our main stack.

Our force can move next to Salamanca (correct side of the river and on a mountain to boot!) next turn. We have another big load of immortals arriving next turn. You can decide how best to make use of them.
There are units on Go-To headed to our main port city of Tlaxcala and galleys then headed to Port Furria.

Other than that pretty straight forward.
Good luck!

Sounds like we're doing ok. Hope to take a look at the save later today.

Opend save. There really is not a lot of land in this save. Japan is also not very strong, china almost gone. Should be rather easy to play this one out from here. Can almost reach Japan savely, just 1 suicide jump? Could send 1 or 2 more galleys that way to try and find a complete save route, and make sure there is no more land anywhere else.

Maybe we don't even need to go there. Taking iro's and english will probably be enough to get domination.
Why do we have 2400 gold? I alway think of that as a waste, we won't be able to buy techs are anything else as we are most advanced, except for the soon to be extinct iro's.

We are at single scientist, and don't need to research, why build libs? Could change them to temples for expansion and hapiness.

1) There really is not a lot of land in this save. Japan is also not very strong, china almost gone. Should be rather easy to play this one out from here.
2)Can almost reach Japan savely, just 1 suicide jump? Could send 1 or 2 more galleys that way to try and find a complete save route, and make sure there is no more land anywhere else.

3) Maybe we don't even need to go there. Taking iro's and english will probably be enough to get domination.
4) Why do we have 2400 gold? I alway think of that as a waste, we won't be able to buy techs are anything else as we are most advanced, except for the soon to be extinct iro's.

5) We are at single scientist, and don't need to research, why build libs? Could change them to temples for expansion and hapiness.
1) it is really funny game. Never had that easy Deity. Well, we played good, actually.
2). I think Galley bridge as I did at SGTOM 51 will work. It is enough to finish Japan.
3) Unlikely, but we may count.
4) It is very unusial problem "what to do with all this money"? Unfortunately we have very little experience here...:p
5) Lib cheaper and give more culture. May be we research Chivalry now?

Yeh I was a bit concerned about our money... I didn't know if the plan was to research anything and so I just left it as I found it. If we want to spend it we could switch our builds to horses, turn on max research for Chivalry and then do a big upgrade... would a huge swag of knights actually do us any good at this stage though? Maybe shave off a dozen turns to the win but... I think this game is really just in mop up mode.

1) Yeh I was a bit concerned about our money...
2)I didn't know if the plan was to research anything and so I just left it as I found it. If we want to spend it we could switch our builds to horses, turn on max research for Chivalry and then do a big upgrade...
3) would a huge swag of knights actually do us any good at this stage though?
4)Maybe shave off a dozen turns to the win but... I think this game is really just in mop up mode.

1) Well, I sort it out... We are short at cash again...
2) I went to 4 turn Chivalry.
3) Hope so.
4) Yes, it is. Let finish the game to see result...
There is a safe (but long way to Japan. I think to ship some troops there.
Iro have Gunpowder. WW up...
Will continue today.

I played three more turn and have found that it is very difficult to fight vs Musceteers with Immortals and Knights. The difficulty is that when City flips back there is a new Musceter appear.
And without GP I have no Idea where to pillage Saltpeter. If I play myself I'll go to False Peace to get GP for gpt and redeclare at once, pillaging Saltpeter.
If, for training reason we want our rep clean we may research GP ourself. It will take 6 turn.
Our GLIB effect is over. Last turn we got Invention and Education. Also I capture SunTzu.
Turnlog
0 600 AD
Rush and short-rush stuff. Spend 1000 gold approx. Set barracks Cities to horses.
Switch to Chivalry for 4 turns with +13 gpt.
IBT
Two Iro LB appear.
1 610 AD Bombard and kill LBs. Unload troops inside Port fur and near Niagara Fall. Move troops to Salamanca.
Salamanca has musketman. Kill spear and Sword in small Iro City. Got 7 gold.
IBT
Iro Galleys sail to our route. MW and LB on mountains.
2 620 AD
Regrouped Galleys to Niagara Falls route. Take Salamanca. Kill MW. Move stack to St. Regis. Unload some near Salamanca.
IBT
LB killed our Pickman. Japan removed China.
3 630 AD
Bombard and take St. Regis. Losses are roughly 1 Immortal for 1 Musketman. Disband Salamanca. Bombard NF, but postpone siege. Rush Barracks in Port Fur.
IBT
Learn Chivalry. Upgrade Horses via "Big picture". 3 MW attacked Pickmen and Immortal. 1:2. HE finished. Oil Springs Build Sun Tzu.
4 640 AD
Move stack to Grand River. Unload Knights near Niagara Springs. WW up again. Put Lux 20%. Put Governor and fired where reasonable. Miscalculate Bactra.
IBT
MW died vs Pickman at St Regis. Promoted him to elite. Salamanca appeared at North point.
5 650 AD
Capture Niagara Falls. Many Immortals and Knights remained. Move Knights to Grand River. Pillage Horses. Lose Knight vs Pickman in Salamanca.
IBT
Elite Galley won vet Galley 5->4. MW died vs Pickman in St.Regis.
6 660 AD
Unload troops near Awesome via Ship Chain. Take Grand River. Move Knights to Awesome. Destroy Salamanca
IBT
MW died vs Pickman in Ni Falls.
We got Invention and education vs GLB. GLB over.
Bactra, Niagara Falls and Samarra riot.
7 670 AD
Take Awesome. Sell improvements at Ni Falls just in case. (City tend to flip after riot.) Actually more wise was to disband it... Move Stack of Catapults to Oil Springs. 4 Cat+ 6 Imm+ 2 Picks near Allegheny.
IBT
Iro unloaded Pick, Sword and MW near Awesome.
8 680 AD
Killed 1 LB with e Immortal and 1 LB near Awesome. Lose all but 1 immortals near Allwgheny. Kill 1 Musketman only. Move stack to Oil Springs.
IBT
Iro unloaded Pick, Sword and MW near Awesome.
Niagara Fals Fliped.
9 690 AD
Kiled Pick, Sword and MW near Awesome. Take Oil Springs with Sun Tzu. Want to make False Peace to pillage Saltpeter.

Sorry, I apperently missed your second update, was gona ask when you where gona finish but see you already did, will play after work.

Ivan could you upload the 690 save, now I can only get 650?

I finished with 700 AD.
690 AD I broke our reputation to get GP. Pillage Saltpeter at Iro Island.
700 AD Killed Musketman in Neagara Falls.
Raze 1 City. Make 2 Gem Colonies. We may trade with Lis but she wants to much for Spices. Also if Iro Cities Awesome or Oil Springs flip back trade route will be broken. Live it to nerovats.

Idea with Japan to unload but agree to remove troops automatically. They will move to china and wait.

Will play tomorrow, not sure what you mean with auto move to China, but expect it to be obvious when opening the save.

Will play tomorrow, not sure what you mean with auto move to China, but expect it to be obvious when opening the save.
I meant, that in China/Japan Island at the China land there are some freee tiles. Istead of shipping there, we may unload at Japan (it is shorter way), but agree "to move our troops Automatically". They will jump to China.

Pre turn
Hit enter
710AD
change some of corrupt big cities to settlers to reduce unhappiness and colonize Iro's island
Kill 2 units in Niagra Falls and keep city for now 2-0
Trow rocks at Allegheny, no hits, move knight over there
Move large stack next to Tonawanda, that should fall next turn
Take units out of cities with large flip risk
Since Iro's should fall now start to prepare to attack England. Will land on their iron, some pikes to saltpeter to pillage.
720AD
WW strikes hard, will need to up lux to 40% and will still need entertainers
kill 4 units in Tonawanda and keep it 6-0
Attack Allegheny but don't succede in killing anything (almost everything redlined) get some retreats and lose 2 knights 6-2
IBT
Iro's have a LB our knight retreats
730AD
Giva Allegheny another go no get 1 this time lose an immortal 7-1
Kill the LB 8-1
Land first units on Japan island
740AD
Send in everyting (including pikes to get last HP spear) on Allegheny lost count, took lot of units but iro's are history.
lux back to 0%
Upgrade pikes before going to England
IBT
Japan boots units, they go NW and center west
750AD
Redistribute citizens to minimize waste
rush some settlers to colonize Island fast
rush lib in Uruk to claim tiles
rush lot's of galleys, making 380gpt now
760AD
Make all cities with 10 shields and up build knights
last couple of turns is just moving units, colonizing island and rushing galleys.

Should be ready to crumble english in couple of turns.
There are quite a few units in ships north of former Iro's they can go towards iron, there's also large stack on SW point of island, they can be shipped towards the saltpeter.
We need 200 more tiles for domination, English might be enough.

146441

146442

Ok I got it! will get to it the next few days.
Load up and start in on the English.

Pre-turn
Not Much things looks well in hand.

Turn 1 (810AD):
Position Troops Load up some galleys Prepare for English Invasion.

Turn 2 (820AD):
Rush Some Library for Culture Pop.
Moving in on Lizzy


Turn 3 (830AD):
Unload on Salt Peter.

IBT: Remove or Declare! We are at War.
English Loose a Sword.

Turn 4 (840AD):
Unload on Iron
Pillage Salt
Unload 8 Musket 11 Knights 12 Imm. 2 settler and 4 Cats outside Canterbury

IBT:
Japan Move or Declare! Moved All Immortals are outside Beijing Now.
Loose empty Galley but Sink 2 English Galleys

Turn 5 (850AD):
Pillage Iron.
Assault Canterbury 4 Musket, 1 Pike and 1 Sword Dead loss 5 Immortals City Razed
Establish Hoe Broken
Assault on London Kill 4 Musket Dead loss 2 Knights London Razed
Razed Lux to 10%

IBT: Loose Expose Knight that razed London

Turn 6 (860AD):
Moving Troops
Kill 1 Musket and Sword.

IBT:
Loose Musket to LB
English Resettle London

Turn 7 (870AD):
Assault London Kill 1 Musket and 1 Spear London Razed
Assault Hastings Kill 3 Musket, 1 Pike, 1 sword, 1 LB, Loss 3 Knights Hasting Razed.
Kill 2 Musket 4 Pikes, 2 Spear, 7 Swords, 3 Warriors In mop Up Duty with No Losses.
Establish Pasty White

Turn 8 (880AD):
Assault Warrick 2 Muskets Loss 1 Immortal Captured
Kill 1 Musket, 1 Pike, 2 Swords, 1LB and capture a Settler in Mop up Duty with No Losses
Establish Slow Death

Turn 9 (890AD):
Kill 1Sword, 1 LB on Mop up No Losses

Turn 10 (900AD):
Establish Slime Ball.
Lux up to 30%
Assault Coventry 2 Pikes Dead Loss 1 Knight Capture Coventry.
Assault York Kill 3 Muskets 1 Spear Loss 2 Knights One Red Lined Musket left who promoted on the last Knight.

ONLY 69 Tiles to Domination
ROSTER:

Tupac: UP
Ivan: On Deck
Nervovats:
JJJ: Just Played.

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/4883/moxxa2fs.jpg

The Save: 146493

BTW, anybody want to play SGTOM 12 with me?

I signed up for SGOTM12, requesting team Ivan if it still exists. Sounds like a great variant. Would like to invite entire team to join as well.

Oh sorry, hadn't noticed I was up. Will play striaght away

I signed up for SGOTM12, requesting team Ivan if it still exists. Sounds like a great variant. Would like to invite entire team to join as well.
Thanks, I will sign soon (may be tomorow).

Pre-turn - don't see the point in MM at this stage. Suppose we might as well wrap this up faster, so declare war on Japan. Those immortals move onto the hils beside Beijing.

IT - Kill 6 Jap swords on defence, lose 4 immortals, lose a knight to an english Longbow (6-5).

Turn 1 - Kill 4 defenders for the loss of a knight at Nottingham (10-6) and capture the city. Kill a musket and a spear without loss and capture York (12-6), kill 2 LB's but no leader (14-6).

IT - kill 2 more jap swords on defence for the loss of the last immortals of that stack. Oh well, i won't mourn (16-8).

Turn 2 - just line up to wipe out england next turn.

IT - Nottingham flips taking a musket and immortal with it. Oh well, these things happen.

Turn 3 - retake Nottingham. (17-8) Our might cats do absolutely nothing at Newcastle, then our knights follow suite. In the end we lose 9 knights to kill 3 muskets and a longbow (20-17) but we are victorious.

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/245/picture12tg4.png

End turn

IT - zzz

Turn 4 - lots of WLTKD now that the war is over. Check our Tile status we need 7 tiles, the game will end in the interturn. Just hit end turn.

IT - zzz

Turn 5 - we get our culture expansions and...

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/9992/picture13nh4.png

Final score 8709, we are Xerxes the magnificent and this score sits highest in my hall of fame. Great win everybody.

Attached is the save just before the game ends.

Congratulation! Do you have C3C?
Well, this score my second best and best on Deity.

Congrats on a well played game. A very fun game to play.

Love to Join a SGTOM but.
I am without C3C myself :( Sorry

Great, was nice game. Am looking forward to playing the SGOTM.

GG guys, I've lurking all along. :)