Please discuss and have the UN vote in the following poll: What barbarian level do you want?

None
No men in white. No goody huts.

Sedentary
No men in white, but there are goody huts (note - it's still possible to spawn barbarians from a goody hut).

Roaming

Restless

Raging

Random

Abstain

Team GONG votes None

Team BABE votes Raging


this was also suggested in our poll if there is no clear majority (ie : 3 votes for one setting)

Seems like the actual winning setting could be determined by a rating system with:

0 = no barbs
1 = sedentary
2 = roaming
3 = restless
4 = raging

Then add up the total points and divide by the number of voters to get an average. If the average were, lets say 3, it would mean the UN vote would be for restless. Slightly less agressive barbs might be somewhat more acceptable to those who prefer none at all.

I do not agree with the above reasoning at all.

I have voted no barbs in our team vote, primarily since I dislike the randomness that goody huts bring to the game. However, my second choice would be raging, and sedentary last. So please, no false average calculations.

I do not agree with the above reasoning at all.

I have voted no barbs in our team vote, primarily since I dislike the randomness that goody huts bring to the game. However, my second choice would be raging, and sedentary last. So please, no false average calculations.

That's an interesting viewpoint. The only way to resolve a tie would then be a re-vote.

The other option would be for teams to post the raw data.

Team FREE votes Roaming.

I would prefer a system where we revote on ties.

What happens if all 5 teams pick a different option, then re-voting wouldn't change a thing

It would have to become a hidden ballot UN poll, where each person involved in the game would individually vote.

or

Ask 2 Questions ... 'Barbs or No Barbs', and then if barbs are wanted, at what level.

It would have to become a hidden ballot UN poll, where each person involved in the game would individually vote.

or

Ask 2 Questions ... 'Barbs or No Barbs', and then if barbs are wanted, at what level.
Team GONG supports the first of these 2 alternatives.

In the interest of time, can we just stick with what we have here? It's not perfect by a longshot, but it'll work. If there's a tie, RM and I will cast the deciding vote based on what people have written here.

In the interest of time, can we just stick with what we have here? It's not perfect by a longshot, but it'll work. If there's a tie, RM and I will cast the deciding vote based on what people have written here.maybe you guys could count up the individual votes in the teams' polls to get an individual count?

I trust out beloved admins to find an equitable solution :) If there aren't any expansionist civs, it doesn't matter anyway...

Just to put everyone in the loop Team B is very close with 2 options in the poll and we are waiting for 2 members to cast their votes ... I have sent an e-mail and if nothing happens in 24 hours I will post our results.

If we end up with both barbs and sgl's my guess is the ol' randomizer gadget will come in use :hammer2:

If we end up with both barbs and sgl's my guess is the ol' randomizer gadget will come in use :hammer2:

Maybe some of us prefer an environment that hasn't been completely sanitised

Maybe some of us prefer an environment that hasn't been completely sanitised
I wasn't referring to the randomness of the barbs/GH's. I was thinking more about what team will get to be Russia.

I wasn't referring to the randomness of the barbs/GH's. I was thinking more about what team will get to be Russia.

And you would consider cossaks on the basis of slightly better odds of getting a free tech or 2? The fact that its seems that you would just shows that a bit of randomess can add some interesting choices to the mix

I wasn't referring to the randomness of the barbs/GH's. I was thinking more about what team will get to be Russia.

I was thinking along the lines of what team will get to be Portugal! :D

And you would consider cossaks on the basis of slightly better odds of getting a free tech or 2? The fact that its seems that you would just shows that a bit of randomess can add some interesting choices to the mix
Some of your fellow babe's can tell you more about the randomness of my brain. That was just a whiff :rotfl:

Team Saber has voted Raging for the barbarian level.

Raging: 2
Roaming: 1
None: 1

If Team B chooses Raging, then Raging it is. Otherwise we'll need one of the alternative decision methods. ;)

it could choose sedentry...

it could choose sedentry...

Or restless or random

Raging is the only answer which would give a majority.

The Council vote NONE in the UN.

Although far from unanimous ... the breakdown is as follows

None = 4
Roaming = 1
Restless = 2
Raging = 2

*cough* cowards *cough* :D

Need some medicine Cham old chap ??? :p

So we are tied :(

Next method.

:hmm: I have posted the raw data ... could everyone else do this and we tally individual votes ???

:lol: or do teams have to poll if they prefer the breakdowns kept secret :rolleyes:

The other thing would be for teams to have a revote with none or raging as the only choices.

That would essentially be saying Team FREE must choose one of those two.

That would essentially be saying Team FREE must choose one of those two.

I was thinking that all teams run polls with just the too options as there are many people who would not have voted for either option, so it would be unfair to just let team FREE revote. My suggestion is like a run off election, no option gained a majority so we revote with the top 2 choices.

Technically, RegentMan and I have the casting vote as admins...do you guys want us to break the tie or have a repoll?

Technically, RegentMan and I have the casting vote as admins...do you guys want us to break the tie or have a repoll?

Would we need to poll that option too:lol: ;)
What if you and RegentMan end up split:p

I too (personally not as UN Rep) like the idea of the administrators deciding as they can look at the raw data.

:lol: I suppose Rik could cast the deciding vote if RegentMan and Ginger Ale have different opinions.

Enough with the beurocratic nonsense! :eek:

It's time for our admins to take a stance and vote. :p

(speaking from a non-offical standpoint)

Technically, RegentMan and I have the casting vote as admins...do you guys want us to break the tie or have a repoll?

Get It On, Bang A Gong....go do it says Elvis JR

At least Restless and None are the only options that really make sense imo. :)

Should we have a poll (if Restless is the choice) if goody huts should provide workers instead of settlers (like usual in Gotms) to lower the effect of luck? :old:

RegentMan and I have decided on Restless. Here's how:

3 teams wanted barbarians of some sort, 2 did not.
Of those 3, 2 wanted raging, 1 wanted roaming.

Therefore, we will go with a compromise of those choices, and select the middle option, Restless.

Fair enough? :)

No, I do not think it is fair enough, sorry. I stated early in this thread that I do not think any kind of averaging maths on the choices will be fair, and gave my reasons, here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4780357&postcount=4).

I would rather see a repoll with raging or none as the only alternatives, as suggested by Robi D. It will not at all mean what Chamnix makes of it, only allowing individual team members to vote between one of the two could change the outcome for the other teams as well.

This said, if you as admins decide that this is what it will be, then I will of course be quiet and live with it, it's not that big a deal after all. But I definitely don't think that restless is a good compromise, given how the votes were cast.

Surely you agree that the majority of teams wanted barbarians, so how is it fair to have a repoll and possibly end up with none, directly against what the teams voted?

It will not at all mean what Chamnix makes of it, only allowing individual team members to vote between one of the two could change the outcome for the other teams as well.


If it does, then that means the team polls were organized badly. If a team simply listed all choices then picked the one that had a plurality of votes, then you are right that their choice might change given a new election. A properly run team poll would not lead to an outcome of "Raging" if a majority would choose "None" in a head-to-head poll. Personally, I see no reason to let teams change their vote because they don't know how to run an election the first time :p.

I'd just go with the admins ruling even though it isn't my personal first choice so we can move on.

I don't have a clue what your trying to say Chamnix.

Other then that i'm happy that the admins decided so we can move on to other things.

Agreed ... on both statements ;)

Maybe you are right in that a poll with the outcome of none would not be fair given what the teams voted in this first round. But I neither do I think that trying to "average" the result in a poll with only a partial order is fair.

My example: My personal vote was none, as previously noted. My second preference would certainly not have been sedentary, as the averaging reasoning goes, but raging. Given the close call of our team's vote (and some inside intel), had I cast my vote on raging instead then that would have been our teams decision, and thus the majority in the UN as well.

But hey, I don't expect you to listen to my ranting. In fact, I find this a truly minor issue and would be glad if we moved on to more important stuff. I guess I just wanted to point out the fallacies of false averaging over partially ordered polls, which is often a real problem in real life statistics. If you admins think we should move on with restless, then let's move on with restless. I would in fact have been happy to let you (or Rik) choose in the first place. But the statistician in me will not agree that it was the reasonable outcome of the poll. ;)

It is certainly interesting that we are left with a barbarian setting that was selected by exactly none of the teams. Is it too late to ask for a recount in the admin approval poll :mischief:?

Please. Done is done. Restless it is.

Now this is real democrazy. The rulers rule what nobody really wanted (bacause nobody could point out what we all wanted) - nobody can (or wants to) stop it and we will all find out how to live with it - and it works :smug: :D

And of course the most important factor: The issue the decision was taken on is so unimportant that nobody wants to talk this over for other then principle reasons and everybody is happy to go on with real life... :rolleyes:

This is what German politics is like since the early eighties... :ack:

(to make clear: I can live with that decision and don't want to critizise it but wanted to show this example of the weakness of the system...)

I'm with Niklas, what's wrong with having just another round of team votes between raging and none?

This is only really an issue if someone is expansionist - an expansionist civ wants sedentary, because then there are huts to pop, but no barb camps to spawn barbs to strike down the defenseless scouts.

at least, that's the way I see it.

Admin desicion is final is perfectly fine with me personally.

Team GONG said let admin's decide and we stand by that (but I'd be a liar if I said we were happy with restless barbs. That put aside we're happy as drunken campers).

Now this is real democrazy. The rulers rule what nobody really wanted (bacause nobody could point out what we all wanted) - nobody can (or wants to) stop it and we will all find out how to live with it - and it works :smug: :D

And of course the most important factor: The issue the decision was taken on is so unimportant that nobody wants to talk this over for other then principle reasons and everybody is happy to go on with real life... :rolleyes:

This is what German politics is like since the early eighties... :ack:Awesome post that :thumbsup:

Awesome post that :thumbsup:

What he said :agree: :goodjob:

seems to sum up this whole democracy thing (which is why I stick to feudalism :whipped:)

Now this is real democrazy. The rulers rule what nobody really wanted (bacause nobody could point out what we all wanted) - nobody can (or wants to) stop it

Is Nobody even on any of the teams? :confused:

Is Nobody even on any of the teams? :confused:
Nobody is everywhere. Although not in the same numbers... :crazyeye:

Nobody's with SABER.

Even though I would not have run the poll like this, let's just accept restless, we can all live with that.

What did we decide on for barbs? Restless? Random? Rik decides? Roaming?

Restless was the decision. it was made based off of an average of the team votes.

I made it as was in the game-admins' request list.

Yes, it was Restless. You can view a list of all the final polled decisions here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=191980).