Chamnix brought up in the ruleset discussion thread one possible change he'd like to see: moving map trading up to Map Making/Astronomy/some required tech. It is a very valid point, so, I created this thread in case there are other changes you would like to see be made, and then we can create a multiple choice poll for the teams to vote on them. Maybe you want communications trading to go back to Writing, or something like that. Suggest them here. :)

I think the trading of directions should be allowed. You'd still have to drag your own unit all the way over there, and it's another item to spice up the early game trade table.

EDIT: I just realized that you were probably referring to in-game mechanic rule changes, so please disregard this post. :blush: ;)

In my opinion, map trading should be allowed with the discovery of Map Making.
That's pretty early in the game, sure – but what's wrong with that?
It adds an extra level of fun, and something more to barter over/trade with.

Before that – I would even allow discussion of directions with the discovery of writing. If one can establish an embassy, certainly you could say "oh yeah, those hairy Celts are off the North, by the way."

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

Navigation is a pretty long way to wait before being able to swap maps. I don't see anything wrong with MapMaking... or Astronomy, for that matter :)

since it's all humans, I think that's fine. I dunno why map trading was moved to the middle ages, but I assume it was because it gave the human too big an advantage to be able to see the entire world.

Map Making is logical ... if you can draw one, then you should be able to sell it.

Moving map trading to Map Making makes sense to me, as does moving communication trading to Writing. If it were up to me, I'd also switch the Longevity wonder to Sanitation. It's more logical there, and I have great doubts that this game is gonna make it to the Modern Age anyway.

Map Making is logical ... if you can draw one, then you should be able to sell it.

Well, wouldn't you need map making and currency to sell it?

No matter what is decided about trading maps (which I consider to be in game map trading and screenshot trading) we should be able to talk about the terrain around us as soon as we meet another civ.

Hi Donsig ... well who says you have to 'sell' a map for coin ... I'd be happy with a pig :p ;)

Once you permit giving directions, you might as well permit giving maps. For example, once you can say:

Start on East Mountain tile ... then go E, N, N.
That Tile is a jungle on the coast ... NE, NE is a Whale ... SE is a fish ... W is a Banana.


How is that any different from providing a map?

How is that any different from providing a map?

At least it bears much more chances for misunderstandings, is much less convenient and does not support the human imagination too much... :hmm:

Therefor I'd regard that as a whole scientific level less developed. :old:
As if you were missing a crucial tech to commit a task... :D

Once you permit giving directions, you might as well permit giving maps. For example, once you can say:

How is that any different from providing a map?

Those are pretty detailed directions, akin to a verbal map. ;) I was thinking directions are more of "go NE until you hit water, and then N", or something like that.

Those are pretty detailed directions, akin to a verbal map. ;) I was thinking directions are more of "go NE until you hit water, and then N", or something like that.

Indeed, and yet that quote was copied almost verbatim from something that was apparently legal before Navigation last game. It becomes very difficult to define a "verbal map" compared to just general directions.

At least it bears much more chances for misunderstandings, is much less convenient and does not support the human imagination too much...

Therefor I'd regard that as a whole scientific level less developed.
As if you were missing a crucial tech to commit a task...

So things should be inconvenient and tedious although you get the same result? Maybe CivAssistII should only be permitted after the discovery of Mathematics :hmm:.

I think that Map Trading should only be enabled later on in the game since that is when most of the map making was really made. Perhaps we could change the tech Map Making to Ship Building and have map trades put in Astronomy since Navigation is not a required tech and thus it is useless to most of us.

Maybe CivAssistII should only be permitted after the discovery of Mathematics :hmm:

That's a thought!

So things should be inconvenient and tedious although you get the same result? Maybe CivAssistII should only be permitted after the discovery of Mathematics :hmm:.
Good call! :lol:

Actually the whole game should start after the development of computers... :crazyeye:

Yes and we will only start playing the game through an internet forum once a team has built the internet wonder. So post your postal addresses below.

Good call! :lol:

Actually the whole game should start after the development of computers... :crazyeye:
:rotfl: And some say Germans don't have a sense of humor. I beg to differ :old:

:rotfl: And some say Germans don't have a sense of humor. I beg to differ :old:
Even more say I don't have a sense for seriousness... :mischief: :D
This forum however is a good place to learn about other cultures and people and to change one's 100 year old prejudice :old:

Germany has no Kaiser and no Fuehrer, we have fun and like children (well some of us), animals and environment. And we don't like to go to war. :)

Once you permit giving directions, you might as well permit giving maps. For example, once you can say:



How is that any different from providing a map?

It's not different and that's my point. I see no reason why we can't trade screenshots from the git go. This is a game between people and I don't like artificial constraints on what I can talk about when playing the game. Takes alot of the fun away if I have to always worry about what I can and can't say. Look at it this way, aren't we allowed ot discuss back and forth what techs we have and use that to try to figure out what techs a third team has? Why can't we do the same with maps and units we see?

As far as inside the Civ III game isn't trading maps important as far as sea routes between harbors for trading?

EDIT: Verbal directions and screenshots are subject not only to misunderstandings but subterfuge and therefore add an interesting element to the game. :satan:

Three major points I've gotten from this thread:

Do we want to move map trading (in-game and out-of-game (screenshots)) to Map Making?

Do we want to move contact trading (in-game) to Writing?

Do we want to allow directions from the beginning, or should directions/maps/screenshots/descriptions collectively be prohibited until Map Making?


So - do we want to do a team-by-team poll? Just an overall each-person-votes poll? Did I miss something?

team by team is fine with me. Team BABE has pretty much already come to this conclusion (This is not the official vote though)



Map trading changed to Map Making tech, same as in vanilla and PTW
Contact trading changed to Writing
Any subject open to discussion between teams with contact. Screenshot trading available concurrent with map trading.

Speaking for myself, :agree:

anyone still thinking that Mapmaking should remain at Astronomy should go and read the MIA-KISS border discussions. we went back and forth for a small eternity to get the border straight. All because we had to use text directions.

That is the only one I feel vehement about.

...Mapmaking should remain at Astronomy...
:hmm: :confused: :mischief: :rolleyes: :hammer2: :lol:

edit: We know what you tried to express :D

yeah yeah. I meant map trading for the non-idiots out there

Do you guys want to poll those three issues? I think it'll be quicker if we add them to the ruleset, poll the ruleset, and then if people don't like it, they can vote no, otherwise, we can proceed, saving us the time of yet another poll, or "YAP". (Nice acronym, huh? :D)

Gareed GA.

Poll now else there will so many versions of the rule set to vote on it becomes unwieldy to hold a poll.

The Council vote ...

1. Trading Maps with Map Making technology
... Yes

2. Contact trading with Writing
... Yes

3. Do we want to allow directions from the beginning, or should directions/maps/screenshots/descriptions collectively be prohibited until Map Making?
... Beginning (that is for Directions only)

Do you guys want to poll those three issues? I think it'll be quicker if we add them to the ruleset, poll the ruleset, and then if people don't like it, they can vote no, otherwise, we can proceed, saving us the time of yet another poll, or "YAP". (Nice acronym, huh? :D)

it appears as though this thread is being turned into such an animal

team by team is fine with me. Team BABE has pretty much already come to this conclusion (This is not the official vote though)



Map trading changed to Map Making tech, same as in vanilla and PTW
Contact trading changed to Writing
Any subject open to discussion between teams with contact. Screenshot trading available concurrent with map trading.




Poll now else there will so many versions of the rule set to vote on it becomes unwieldy to hold a poll.

The Council vote ...

1. Trading Maps with Map Making technology
... Yes

2. Contact trading with Writing
... Yes

3. Do we want to allow directions from the beginning, or should directions/maps/screenshots/descriptions collectively be prohibited until Map Making?
... Beginning (that is for Directions only)

Do you guys want to poll those three issues? I think it'll be quicker if we add them to the ruleset, poll the ruleset, and then if people don't like it, they can vote no, otherwise, we can proceed, saving us the time of yet another poll, or "YAP". (Nice acronym, huh? :D)

Go add we say at the Gong Show

By the way, which victory conditions will be on?

all I assumed

Yeah, I'm assuming all.

I will add those changes to the ruleset tonight.

Visit my latest post in the ruleset thread for an updated ruleset...

Team Gong votes only diplomatic victory enabled :joke:

:lol: no histo win either?

score win can't be turned off.

How 'bout a Wonder victory? :p

How about Domination OFF :mischief:

STOP IT! This is getting too silly. Turn all victory conditions off and get the game started.....sheeeez......:rolleyes:

I need to know what changes are to be made in the in-game rules so I can implement them in the scenario/editor.

I think we decided on:

Map trading available with Map Making.
Contact trading available with Writing.
Statue of Zeus costs 300 shields and doesn't require ivory.
Sipahi cost 20 shields and are available with Horseback Riding.

Did I miss any?

Yes - Korea's research modifier ;)

I think those were all.

I think we decided on:

Map trading available with Map Making.
Contact trading available with Writing.
Statue of Zeus costs 300 shields and doesn't require ivory.
Sipahi cost 20 shields and are available with Horseback Riding.

Did I miss any?

Don't remember the last one... ;) (The first 3 are what we decided on, yes.)

Sipahi cost 20 shields and are available with Horseback Riding.
:eek:

Oh well - it's your game - consider it done.
weird people, back in my days ... :old:

:lol:

I just discovered the option "cannot be traded" and I've added that to "The Republic", "Monarchy", "Feudalism", "Democracy", "Facism" and "Communism".

I don't really think that's a good thing. The Republic and other govt. techs could be useful in trading. The teams didn't vote on this, so, personally, I'd leave that out.

http://209.85.12.231/2135/53/emo/gripe.gif

*grins at Rik*

@Chamnix, it was worth a try. :D