Ambiorix should be getting close to his exam deadline and able to play soon. Steel.stiletto should be available soonish as well judging from his earlier posts. Good if they could post their playing status.
Had a quick look at the save: 33%land, 32% pop and cities still growing so still scope for expansion.
Techwise I'd reckon on selling mass media to Vicky and Louis; see if we could trade industrialism for radio+cash; not sure but it may be possible; or else wait for flight and review trade options then.
We're going to carry on alienating AIs by declaring war and vassalising their enemies but at this point its too late to reverse that so I think we should be looking at straight diplomation.
Alternative use for cash might be to upgrade promoted rifles/grens to infantry to boost our power rating which is likely to speed up capitulation based on relative power.

[/lurk]
Occasionally checking the forums. Definitely won't be able to play before the exam though. By the way you guys are going, this game could even be over by Saturday ! :)
[lurk]

No news yet from steel.stiletto.

Cabert is UP.

OK, this is not a got it yet, but i'll try to DL the game tonight.
From the look of the graphs, we should be fine :)

No rush; last time I looked we were well ahead of the pack (in regard to turns played anyway).

Let's focus on pop growth and military supremacy to deter other aggressors and speed capitulation by our victims.

this is a got it
starting at turn 406, in 1782

Cabert: respectfully suggest you play from the 1782 save on the results page.
Good luck, enjoy, win.

Cabert: respectfully suggest you play from the 1782 save on the results page.
Good luck, enjoy, win.

oups, edited my post
don't worry, it's just my fingers and my head not perfectly connected, but i played the right game (DL and opened it straight away, so no possible error).
7 turns played, monte capitulated.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/74263/Civ4ScreenShot0046.JPG
MM is now friendly, I traded him flight for 3000 gold and flight + mass media to cyrus for industrialism.
Now going to bed, i'll play some more tomorrow.

The save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm3/Trash_Team_SG003_AD1796_01.CivWarlordsSave) is here, if you want to have a look (but don't play, i'm not done yet ;)).

mmmm T34s!
Isabella next?

Silly question; can we improve our vassals lands?

Pigswill,

I think that we'll have some hard decisions in your round if not the last few turns of Cabert's. Isabella will fall over like a sack of spuds, but it's the move after that which will make things 'interesting'.

I don't know about improving Vassals' lands, but my guess would be provided that it's an improvement - 'yes'. I'm not sure if we started knocking over Aztec towns for farmland whether the game would let us do that. :undecide:

Cabert,

Pleased you got Montezuma to capitulate - seven turns is quick! :thumbsup:

He's got three cities, so I guess we took four or five (sorry - relying on memory)? I suppose we have to start gifting him technology so he can grow and defend himself; Biology and Assembly Line spring to mind, but he'll obviously need the prerequisites filled first.

Pigswill,

I think that we'll have some hard decisions in your round if not the last few turns of Cabert's. Isabella will fall over like a sack of spuds, but it's the move after that which will make things 'interesting'.

I don't know about improving Vassals' lands, but my guess would be provided that it's an improvement - 'yes'. I'm not sure if we started knocking over Aztec towns for farmland whether the game would let us do that. :undecide:

Cabert,

Pleased you got Montezuma to capitulate - seven turns is quick! :thumbsup:

He's got three cities, so I guess we took four or five (sorry - relying on memory)? I suppose we have to start gifting him technology so he can grow and defend himself; Biology and Assembly Line spring to mind, but he'll obviously need the prerequisites filled first.

I took only one city:blush: .
I already gifted him chemistry and ? can't remember, prereqs for biology. I'll gift him biology next turn.

About improving our vassals land, I must say I'm still improving ours (farms over workshops).

We're running out of obvious targets and the next one will alienate at least one of our putative allies. I guess it comes down to which allies we think we can rely on to vote us to UN victory. Cyrus and Mansa voted for us last round (so switching to FM was worth the economic hit), Gandhi remains unreliable, Freddy is still worth courting after another round of mutual military.

Looked at latest save:
Louis: Cyrus pleased, Fred and Mansa cautious.
Alex: " "
Kublai(!) " "
Vicky: Fred pleased, Mansa friendly, Cyrus annoyed.

(Mansa will DoW Isabella, didn't check the price).

Cyrus has enough on his hands, I wonder who is the target?
I think we should have had enough wars after Isabella.
We will need defensive pacts with cyrus, freddy and mm. I believe you need to be at peace to sign defensive pacts.
If we manage a defensive pact with gandhi too, we may get his vote.

Quick count from last UN vote: if we included additional votes from monte, isabella, fred and gandhi we would have had 1075 votes (1067 needed) so if DPs tip the balance after annexing spain then we're in with a chance.

yep, that's my counting too
+ sabotaging farms, pastures and windmills in china/mongolia/england
+ farming all over the place
should be enough.
That's why I think we will live in a world of peace.

Of course, if Cyrus goes to war and asks us for help, we will have to give in.

Hum
I may have f$$$ed up our diplo win.

I just forgot that although our vassal, Isabella and Montezuma were everybody's worst enemies :(
MM is back to pleased, so is cyrus...

ho, I forgot to mention that :
- isabella is our vassal
- we have teched to plastics
- we have the pentagon (for what good it may do)
- we have scotland yard
- we have oxford uni.

We have enough power to demand gold from Louis and Mao (i did already :)). Maybe we should simply capitulate the next biggest guy?

So I farmed over ivory and horses, I lumbermilled hills (except resources, i didn't dare :mischief:), send a great merchant for 4000 gold, and started fiber optics.

there is a vote for diplo win under way (i voted for us of course)

who's next?

My turn, my turn, my turn.

It might well be over in the next couple of turns! :please:

Two Vassals in 15 turns! Great work Sir!

Defensive Pacts not signed?

Got it.
Looked at it.
No-one likes us enough to sign DPs.

My thinking is try not to alienate Cyrus any further; he's annoyed with Victoria and cautious with Gandhi so these could be the next two targets. Pickingon Vicky and Gandhi would make Mansa bit unhappier but we'd just have to accept the potential loss of his vote.

I suggest to
- amass troops next to vicky's borders
- wait for the vote's result
- if we don't have MM and gandhi's vote, attack!

It might well be over in the next couple of turns! :please:

Two Vassals in 15 turns! Great work Sir!

Defensive Pacts not signed?

That's why I advocated vassalizing our neighbours :)
After a while it's really easy :
1 city taken and they surrender :lol: (they check the power graphs and add our power to every single one of our vassals, which start to be a real lot now. It's even bordering exploit, since the techs give power to each of us! So power value of assembly line is multiplied by the number of vassals that you gift it to :eek:)

I suggest to
- amass troops next to vicky's borders
- wait for the vote's result
- if we don't have MM and gandhi's vote, attack!

Sounds like a plan!

A one city Vassalage vs. England would be fantastic, but I presume that we'd have to wait 10 turns before she speaks to us and surrenders.

Anyway ... best of luck again Pigswill! I hope we get the win this round! :)

Didn't win this vote:
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/pigswill-2006/ttb10000.jpg

So attack Vicky, maybe Gandhi (thoroughly unreliable).

arg!
gandhi and freddy voted for us in the previous vote!
sorry guys :(

We're currently on 39% land, 38% population so some room to gobble up a couple more civs.
I've never used bombers in Civ4 (no, not even once) even though I used them regularly back in the days of Civ 1 so this will be interesting for me.

Cabert: you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs. If we hadn't captured spain and azteca we'd still be no closer to victory.

If I had simply captured them, without trading them anything, we'd have won now...

about bombers, I suggest :
- bombing down defenses with destroyers
- attacking garison units with bombers (all of them)
- take city (no need to unload from transports if you attack 1/2 strength units :))

Played up to 1822. Still not won!
Finished fibre optics in 1814. Switched off research and 100% cash, started internet in Thebes. Spending lots of money on military (rush builds and upgrades). Popped a GM who'll try to get into Timbuktu.
Declared on Vic in 1816; Gandhi declared on us! (must have been a DP I missed but it suits us fine).
Getting closer...
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/pigswill-2006/ttb20000.jpg

Power is still rising....
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/pigswill-2006/ttb30000.jpg

So ... I take it the idea is to Vassalise both India and England rather than capture all of them?

Did we get Coventry?! :)

Regarding the Great Merchant, the value is a combination between the size of the recipient city and distance from Moscow - so would Persepolis be better than Timbuktu?

Blah! Still no Frederick vote!

So ... I take it the idea is to Vassalise both India and England rather than capture all of them?

Did we get Coventry?! :)

Regarding the Great Merchant, the value is a combination between the size of the recipient city and distance from Moscow - so would Persepolis be better than Timbuktu?

Blah! Still no Frederick vote!


fred voted for us 1 time, before I traded with is worst enemy :blush: .
With gandhi and vicky as vassals, we should get the votes :goodjob:

Yup, idea is to vassalise Gandhi and Vic. Captured Coventry and two indian cities, reasonable casualties on both sides, we've been replacing faster than losing.Vicky mounted small invasion of Japan (tank, 2 arty, sam) defeated for loss of two arty. Quite a bit of naval warfare, we're probably ahead on that front. Game crashed in 1823 (power cut!) which is when I gave up last night. Still waiting for Gandhi and Vic to talk to us to see if they're willing to capitulate. Gave Mansa a couple of Japanese cities (Satsuma and Nakoya). On 41% territory, 42% pop.

Yup, idea is to vassalise Gandhi and Vic. Captured Coventry and two indian cities, reasonable casualties on both sides, we've been replacing faster than losing.Vicky mounted small invasion of Japan (tank, 2 arty, sam) defeated for loss of two arty. Quite a bit of naval warfare, we're probably ahead on that front. Game crashed in 1823 (power cut!) which is when I gave up last night. Still waiting for Gandhi and Vic to talk to us to see if they're willing to capitulate. Gave Mansa a couple of Japanese cities (Satsuma and Nakoya). On 41% territory, 42% pop.

that's rather dangerous! we're not assured he will vote for us

I'd go for 1 big english city, then defend it to death, sinking every boat in sight, sending bombers and artilleries on every stack in sight.

I'm more worried about tripping the domination limit. Mansa supported us in the last two rounds, giving him cities should help keep him happy and on our side (and he's still a long way from second place). With England and India we have a good chance of winning UN even if Mansa abstains (which is unlikely), the only potential modifier might be vassalising his enemies (and he was friendly with Vic and Gandhi before the war).

I don't have concerns about either the Domination limit or gifting Mansa Musa a couple of cities! ;)

I'm a smidge more concerned about us attacking his friends however. :shifty:

Anyway, one must do what one must do! :thumbsup:

I'm more worried about tripping the domination limit. Mansa supported us in the last two rounds, giving him cities should help keep him happy and on our side (and he's still a long way from second place). With England and India we have a good chance of winning UN even if Mansa abstains (which is unlikely), the only potential modifier might be vassalising his enemies (and he was friendly with Vic and Gandhi before the war).
I don't think gifting cities will improve our relation with MM, but I believe (correct me if i'm wrong) that we already have the max diplo penalty for vassalizing enemies... Isa and Monte were MM's enemies! So it should be safe, except that mutual struggle bonus will start to fade.
I'd be willing to pay anything to get him into the war! Same for Cyrus and freddy!

I think we can bring freddy back to vote for us if we trade him a lot of young techs (for the "you shared your technological discoveries with us" bonus).

I smell the win :)

Now played up to 1826.

Victoria is talking but not capitulating (she's recently got robotics for MI but no sign of her power rating leaping upwards; hopefully she's skint).

Gandhi still not talking (hopefully next turn).

Diplomatically Cyrus is +10 net, Mansa is +10 net.

I've captured another english city (Canterbury).

I've made a bit (ok a lot) of a mess with war vs Gandhi and Vicky.Got plenty of bombers and ships but nowhere near enough ground units. Moving to threaten Madras.

We've accepted a couple of OB offers from Kublai and Alex.

Only tech on offer in fascism.

Now about ten turns from internet.

Got 6000 in the bank, earning c 1400gpt at 100%. Health and happy are becoming minor problems.

I feel that I'm not playing well and thus slowing down our victory so at this point I'd be happy to hand over to someone else, maybe Cam_H this evening/tomorrow to seal the win.

I'll await views before posting the save.

Now played up to 1826.

Victoria is talking but not capitulating (she's recently got robotics for MI but no sign of her power rating leaping upwards; hopefully she's skint).
Time for massive tanks + bombers!

Gandhi still not talking (hopefully next turn).
did you check if he is a vassal of victoria?

Diplomatically Cyrus is +10 net, Mansa is +10 net.
:goodjob:

I've captured another english city (Canterbury).
:goodjob:

I've made a bit (ok a lot) of a mess with war vs Gandhi and Vicky.Got plenty of bombers and ships but nowhere near enough ground units. Moving to threaten Madras.

I suggest focusing on vicky first (she is willing to talk!)

We've accepted a couple of OB offers from Kublai and Alex.
why?

Only tech on offer in fascism.
leave it, it will be a gift for internet

Now about ten turns from internet.
No way to get it a bit faster (workshops)?

Got 6000 in the bank, earning c 1400gpt at 100%. Health and happy are becoming minor problems.
time for science IMHO (refrigeration, ecology)

I feel that I'm not playing well and thus slowing down our victory so at this point I'd be happy to hand over to someone else, maybe Cam_H this evening/tomorrow to seal the win.
You did well, don't worry.
It's a bit hard to decide, with so many units, so many cities, so many vassals, so many neighbours... I can understand what is giving you problems. After my round I was happy to give the game away, i was really unsure how to continue...

Cam_h will bomb England back to stone age :D :) and thus give us a foot for victory.


I'll await views before posting the save.

You have my views, now post the save:scan:

I can smell the win in 10 to 20 turns (I just say so to put some pressure on you Cam:lol: )

I'll post the save shortly. Got a few tanks slowly heading in the right direction. We comfortably won the last sec gen election in 1823. I hope we can get Gandhi to capitulate before the next vicory vote coz then we'd be in with a good chance. Didn't check if Gandhi had vassalised to Victoria but I didn't notice it in passing and Vic and Gandhi were fairly equal in power and score.

Edit: save has been posted (admire the power chart).

Another Edit: 10-20 turns? Should be less than 10.

OK ... got the save! :)

Another Edit: 10-20 turns? Should be less than 10.

Sheesh ... put the pressure on! ;)

If we win, the thinking is that we do post the game ... oui?

Some points of clarification and what-not; We have two stacks of Infantry standing around - one north of Kagoshima, the other near Pi Rameses. Any reason why these troops aren't being used more constructively? Two more Spies into China to tear up Mao's turf a bit? I assume we're picking on Saladin because he's not got the same tight relations as Mongolia-France or China-Greece, and if our Spy gets caught it won't add weight to the liklihood that it will trigger a war that we can't cope with. Tanks moving to a non-coastal tile near Alexandria? Shouldn't these also be moved onto a Transport and shoved off to the front? No units on the war front have a Medic promotion - at the next opportunity I'll arrange for one either to be moved there or upgrade a unit there with a promotion. Several cities are constructing more Bombers and Battleships - I'd swap them to Marines / Tanks / etc. Possible deal: Cyrus > Gift Incense Possible deal: Mansa > War with Gandhi for 3840:gold: Possible deal: Frederick> Gift Radio (or other techs)Thoughts or explanation on some of these?

We have two stacks of Infantry standing around - one north of Kagoshima, the other near Pi Rameses. Any reason why these troops aren't being used more constructively?
Originally to counter possible invasions/raids.With ports pretty much under seige they could probably be moved

Two more Spies into China to tear up Mao's turf a bit? I assume we're picking on Saladin because he's not got the same tight relations as Mongolia-France or China-Greece, and if our Spy gets caught it won't add weight to the liklihood that it will trigger a war that we can't cope with.
Not good to reduce mao's pop and have someone else take his place; better and easier to weaken his supporters

Tanks moving to a non-coastal tile near Alexandria? Shouldn't these also be moved onto a Transport and shoved off to the front?
I'm an idiot

No units on the war front have a Medic promotion - at the next opportunity I'll arrange for one either to be moved there or upgrade a unit there with a promotion.
See above

Several cities are constructing more Bombers and Battleships - I'd swap them to Marines / Tanks / etc.
Absolutely. We've got enough sea/air units now (maybe occasional replacements will be needed)

Possible deal: Mansa > War with Gandhi for 3840
We'll regain the cash in 2-3 turns. Good idea.

Sorry Cam_H; not my strongest set ever (in fact pure trash :blush: :blush: )

Pigswill,

Thanks for the reply. I don't think it's a Trash Round! :)

OK on Mao ... maybe Kublai then?

If we get Mansa to attack Gandhi, are we going to end up with the same problem that Cabert identified with Vassalising Montezuma in that we'll get a negative modifier from Mansa, or is that only after we trade with our new Vassal that this "You have traded with our worst enemy" kicks in? :undecide:

Mansa and Gandhi haven't been worst enemies; I'm surprised that Mansa is willing to backstab him. Should get a mutual military from Mansa but no trading demerits.

That was my thinking too.

I've just reviewed the thread, and Cabert earlier indicated that we should get Mansa into a war and gift technology to Frederick, so we have team unity on those moves.

OK - I'm 'ready to roll'! :hammer:

_________________________


Would you believe six turns? All over - Cease Fire with England, Capitulation of India, but neither were required. :)

OK ... got the save! :)

I didn't open (or even DL) the save, so I may be mistaken. Feel free to say so.



Sheesh ... put the pressure on! ;)
I don't want to take the game again.
YOU MUST WIN! :D

If we win, the thinking is that we do post the game ... oui?
PMs on the way. I don't think we need to try and be "stealth".

Two more Spies into China to tear up Mao's turf a bit?
yes!
If that brings kublai at second place, it's good for us :)

I assume we're picking on Saladin because he's not got the same tight relations as Mongolia-France or China-Greece
We don't care, we want to win :lol:

and if our Spy gets caught it won't add weight to the liklihood that it will trigger a war that we can't cope with
We can cope with any war at this point.
Even the whole world vs us is manageable.

Possible deal: Cyrus > Gift Incense
not very effective on the diplomatic front, but can bring his pop up, so go for it. I would gift him any tech we have too, for "you shared technological discoveries" bonus.
Did he declare on someone?


Possible deal: Mansa > War with Gandhi for 3840:gold:
:goodjob: That's exactly what we need!

Possible deal: Frederick> Gift Radio (or other techs)
no way to bribe him into a war? :( Don't gift him radio. It's an old tech now, so it won't give us any diplo bonus.

Now go play, and win this game :lol:

Would you believe six turns? All over - Cease Fire with England, Capitulation of India, but neither were required. :)
:cool:
:king:
Cam_h, you seem be able to manage a lot of pressure :)
:goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob:
I'm so happy I could jump in my office :)

I'm gettin short on smileys, but you get the point :lol: :clap: [party] :beer: :banana: :trophy:

1826AD: Preturn

Hurried some partially built Tanks. Undertook some city micromanagement, including shaving a turn off The Internet in Thebes.

http://www.users.bigpond.com/c.hills/18_mansawarwithgandhi.jpg

The first of several gifts to the ‘Cautious’ Frederick;

http://www.users.bigpond.com/c.hills/18_fredgifts.jpg

1827AD: Turn 1

Kublai Kahn completes the Apollo Program.

Movement of some troops towards India and England. An effort to weaken the troops in Madras includes the loss of a Bomber.

Despite having no cash, Victoria instantly upgrades her troops in one turn to Mechanical Infantry.

No opportunity to force England or India to Capitulate.

1828AD: Turn 2

A slow moving Russian stack of three Artillery covered by an Infantry heading towards Madras is surprised by three English Mechanical Infantry units that barely get scratched. Hmmm… I’m reluctant to commit to 10 turns of Peace, but this state of affairs just will not do;

http://www.users.bigpond.com/c.hills/18_vikicease.jpg

Diplomatic Victory voting (33 short);

http://www.users.bigpond.com/c.hills/18_vote1.jpg

1829AD: Turn 3

Troops heading towards Madras, poised to strike.

1830AD: Turn 4

Delhi falls, but Gandhi will not Capitulate.

Mali has crept back to ‘Friendly’ status.

Frederick gets more gifts (refer above).

Cyrus too gets a gift;

http://www.users.bigpond.com/c.hills/18_cyrusgift.jpg

United Nations Resolution: Diplomatic Victory, vote for Trash Team.

1831AD: Turn 5

Madras – the capital - falls!

http://www.users.bigpond.com/c.hills/18_gandhicapitulates.jpg

Mansa’s brief ‘Friendliness’ reverts back to ‘Pleasantness’.

1832AD: Turn 6

I concede to this demand;

http://www.users.bigpond.com/c.hills/18_vikifibre.jpg

But does it matter? :eek: :D

http://www.users.bigpond.com/c.hills/18_vote2.jpg

Blurry, but clear;

http://www.users.bigpond.com/c.hills/18_winscreen1.jpg

http://www.users.bigpond.com/c.hills/18_winscreen2.jpg

Blob Map;

http://www.users.bigpond.com/c.hills/18_winscreen3.jpg

Ranking;

http://www.users.bigpond.com/c.hills/18_winscreen4.jpg

Score;

http://www.users.bigpond.com/c.hills/18_winscreen5.jpg

The save post-vote (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/56734/Trash_Team_AD-1832.CivWarlordsSave) … not yet submitted.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Well played Cam_H:goodjob: !

Well played Team:cheers:

Despite :badcomp: and [pissed] and the occasional :smoke: move we've won.

Regardless of laurels and awards an 1832 victory with 60k score on warlords 2.08 monarch is very respectable imho.

Let's just post the save and start sussing out the opposition.

Let's just post the save and start sussing out the opposition.

I certainly agree although I don't know what sussing means:confused:

Yep ... it had its moments, but I'm pleased with the outcome.

It was very 'heart in mouth' sort of stuff at times - certainly when Caesar launched his attack on Moscow I had to go and do 'something else' for a few hours and try to stop freaking out!

Thanks everyone for your efforts. Who knows how we'll go, but regardless I learned a lot about Vassals, and had a great (albeit on occasion 'stressful'!) time!

I'll upload that save then.

('Sussing' ... checking out, investigating, etc.)

Sorry cabert, somewhat obscure word 'sussing' means coming to understand through observation and analysis.
But this is merely filling time until the save is posted and our victory confirmed.

regardless I learned a lot about Vassals,
now you know what I mean when I say massive vassalization ;)

and had a great (albeit on occasion 'stressful'!) time!

Same for me.:)
The last rounds were a bit tense, but I could really sense the goal and wanted so much to cross that line!

What I learned in this game is the power of money.
After pyramids, great merchants were clearly superior to any other great people!

Great game, team! Thanks Pigswill for having brought us in!
Thanks cam, for this great finish (although I suspect that in 6 turns, you didn't do that much:p . Pigswill in what he calls his "trash round" certainly did the hardest part:goodjob: ) and other team members, ambiorix and steel, for the somewhat short but still good participation.

Go forth, and suss! ;)

although I suspect that in 6 turns, you didn't do that much

Ha! I took two huge Indian cities I did! :)

Ooops - the shortcut; The game (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm3/Trash_Team_SG003_AD1832_01.CivWarlordsSave).

Ha! I took two huge Indian cities I did! :)

:worship:
just one more question.
Are we supposed to wait for a mod to give us access to other team threads, or just go and peek?

I'm sure I read somewhere that you can't look at other teams' threads until you've finished your game ... but now I can't find any reference to it, and maybe we run the risk of disqualification regardless. :undecide:

I'm sure I read somewhere that you can't look at other teams' threads until you've finished your game ... but now I can't find any reference to it, and maybe we run the risk of disqualification regardless. :undecide:

Yet one more thing : the link you provided is valid and I can download the save, but it seems the submission list doesn't include the final one yet.
So we're "stealth".

I suggest waiting a bit more (there probably is a validity check for the win by the staff!) before running the risk.
Pigswill, would you PM AlanH and let us know the details of our "right to peek".
I also assume we're not allowed any comments in the other threads. Right?

When I played sgotm2 we had a post from AlanH to say the game had been verified and victory completed. I suspect that the moderators go through the final save fairly carefully to check for possible cheats (particularly replays) and that's fine by me.

We've been playing this game a few weeks; I guess we can wait a few hours.

What I've learned from this game is: Focus.

Also learned quite a bit about vassals and particularly how vassalisation can affect diplomacy.

I must say that this has been an enjoyable game. Certainly the competitive element brings a different dimension to the game and maybe people get a bit more intense than usual but that's ok.

Cabert: I'm pretty sure that we can read other threads once we've won but we can't post in other threads until they've finished their game.

I don't see much value in pming AlanH; he'd probably check the save before reading pms about it and he's no doubt got enough to do anyway.

When I played sgotm2 we had a post from AlanH to say the game had been verified and victory completed. I suspect that the moderators go through the final save fairly carefully to check for possible cheats (particularly replays) and that's fine by me.

We've been playing this game a few weeks; I guess we can wait a few hours.

What I've learned from this game is: Focus.

Also learned quite a bit about vassals and particularly how vassalisation can affect diplomacy.

I must say that this has been an enjoyable game. Certainly the competitive element brings a different dimension to the game and maybe people get a bit more intense than usual but that's ok.

I must say it was a rather difficult setup!
Easy for space (we could have raced to alpha centaury with ease after japan conquest), but hard for diplomacy :
loads of neighbours=hard to please all or even just half of them
no city razing = hard to keep domination limit under control.
And the mazy style of the map made it somehow difficult to move the troops.
Even if we should get no laurel at all, I enjoy the victory!

I must admit that there were several times that I thought that we should have gone for space after Japan; would we have built spaceship before 1832? Hard to say. But having decided to go for diplomation it made sense to pursue it as single-mindedly as possible.
As difficult as diplomation was to achieve it would be equally difficult in vanilla, maybe the AI ain't as tough in vanilla but not having a vassalisation option would make diplomation more difficult.
AIs also seemed to stay roughly equal in size throughout the game. Probably because of the archipelago map, had it been continents then there may well have been a couple of dominant AIs by the middle of the game.
Edit: the power of money only really gets unlocked by US. So maybe go for GMs and hoard them until you get pyramids or democracy.

I must admit that there were several times that I thought that we should have gone for space after Japan; would we have built spaceship before 1832? Hard to say. But having decided to go for diplomation it made sense to pursue it as single-mindedly as possible.
As difficult as diplomation was to achieve it would be equally difficult in vanilla, maybe the AI ain't as tough in vanilla but not having a vassalisation option would make diplomation more difficult.
AIs also seemed to stay roughly equal in size throughout the game. Probably because of the archipelago map, had it been continents then there may well have been a couple of dominant AIs by the middle of the game.


If we had played vanilla we would have captured the chinese cities early ;)

Seriously, I doubt any vanilla diplomation is possible. It would require super early biology + warring the opposition into starvation, not a very comfortable situation :eek:

Well done, Trash Team :goodjob:

Yes, now you've finished and uploaded your final save you can go and check out the other teams. Your victory save clears the checking system. Please don't post in another other thread until that team has also finished.

The progress page doesn't show your final save in an attempt to avoid giving the other teams a target end date. Note that, by lurking in another thread you may give away the fact that you've finished, though other teams will work it out eventually anyway, when they see that your progress has stopped.

Had a look at a few games. In terms of conquest no-one has yet over-taken us (though plenty of teams are still fairly early in the game) though other teams seem to have been paying more attention to diplomacy!
Haven't come across any space games (yet).

Congratulations guys ! :goodjob:
Do I take the next turnset ? :lol: :D
Sorry I couldn't be of more assistance. In any case I learned a lot more about the game mechanics. In that aspect I find these SWOTM's more interesting than the 'regular' WOTM.

Btw, the exam went well. Not splendid, but good enough. That's what counts.

See you around !

Btw, the exam went well. Not splendid, but good enough. That's what counts.

If you ask me, that's also what I would say for this game :lol:

^ :D

Thanks Ambiorix for your participation, and even though you missed a few rounds in the latter part, thanks for your comments then too. I'm glad your exam went OK. :)

Pigswill; I too have surfed a few threads. They don't do such nice colourful write-ups like us :( but some have made good progress (one lot took on Alexander fairly early on with some success).

It's interesting how the religious allegiences changes the dynamics from game to game. We had a Confucian bloc to deal with - others have got Hindu clans in other areas.

Looking at these others, I'm mindful that we almost certainly did a :smoke: with the placement of Novgorod in that we should have let it work the Fish tile in the middle of our bay instead of giving the Fish to Rostov and settling on the Copper. Anyway ... done now! I think the decision on when to attack, who to attack, and what to research probably has more bearing on the outcome than something such as this. Our successful Cossack slingshot might be a telling difference!

Other teams seem to be taking their time. VQ are beginning to earn their name. Still too early to decide our place in the field, hopefully not the wooden spoon.

At some point we should start to prepare a final spoiler.

Certainly learning a lot about the finer workings of diplomacy (by reading the other threads :lol: ).

I am actually starting to wonder if they are all soon to get a rude shock when they end up with the same sort of problem that we had with the likes of Gandhi and Frederick, where all of that careful nurturing of allegiences amount to squat when it comes time to vote.

On the other hand, the technological development of some teams is pretty darn impressive, like Peanut getting Physics in 980AD. :(

Did you ever re-load for the spaceship attempt?

I am actually starting to wonder if they are all soon to get a rude shock when they end up with the same sort of problem that we had with the likes of Gandhi and Frederick, where all of that careful nurturing of allegiences amount to squat when it comes time to vote.

On the other hand, the technological development of some teams is pretty darn impressive, like Peanut getting Physics in 980AD. :(

Did you ever re-load for the spaceship attempt?

I'll make an attempt some day, but I'm not in a hurry.
We could have gone for space after Japan maybe?

Sign-up thread for SGOTM 4 is open. Are we going to continue the Trash tradition?

I'd have thought going for space after HC, whether we have time (or interest) to re-do it is debatable as we haven't got round to it yet.

Sign-up thread for SGOTM 4 is open. Are we going to continue the Trash tradition?


Hum, volontary losing?
It's a bit awkward+ permanent war makes it really hard to help the poor gandhi.
I'm not too excited.

I actually like the idea, although I know nothing about Permanent Alliences in that I've yet to play a game with one turned on (other than SGOTM3, which we didn't even use!).

I'm prepared to go another SGOTM as the Trash Team ... Pigswill must be the captain however. :)

do we start a final spoiler?
I'm totally out of this game, and can't think clearly about what we have done.

Maybe it's because we didn't follow a very clear path? :eek:

Its fairly straightforward. Built an army, got slaughtered. Built colossus, lib slingshot to cossacks, went for diplomation. While the clever diplomats are collecting the laurels (fair enough I reckon) we did pretty well out of the diplomation candidates.

Its fairly straightforward. Built an army, got slaughtered. Built colossus, lib slingshot to cossacks, went for diplomation. While the clever diplomats are collecting the laurels (fair enough I reckon) we did pretty well out of the diplomation candidates.

The first spoiler stopped us at slaughtered, as far as I recall.
About the colossus, I don't know if you guys noticed I whipped twice in a very short period of time :rolleyes: ? If you look back at this turnset, I traded MC so fast (for good techs!) after we had it that I really had to push for the colossus:mischief: . That's why there was whip whip in moscow.

We're currently fourth with two teams left to complete (peanut and short straw) so worst outcome is sixth place which is quite reasonable.