Welcome to your C_IV SGOTM 3 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest.

The Game
As Peter The Great, Leader of All the Russias, you are charged with achieving a Diplomatic or Space Victory.

This Monarch difficulty game is on a Standard size, Gyathaar-special, crowded map, at Epic speed, against 17 rivals. All victory conditions are enabled, but the laurels for this contest will be awarded to the teams who achieve the fastest Diplomatic or Space victory.

Version
Your team will play this map in Civilization IV version 1.61, using the standard HoF Mod for Windows version 1.61. This is currently HOF_Mod-1.61.008 (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/mods/HOF-1.61.008.exe), but we shall use the latest version of the mod as at the start date for the game.

Your start file will be available on the SGOTM Progress and Results Page (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php) at midnight, server local time, at the start of December 1st.

Here's the starting position - click the image below to see a larger version.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/civ4games/images/sgotm3_start_small.jpg (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/civ4games/images/sgotm3_start_large.jpg)

Map Parameters
Playable Leader/Civ - Peter of Russia
Rivals - all the other 17 civs in version 1.61
World size - Standard
Difficulty - Monarch
Landform - Archipelago, low sea level, tropical
Game Speed - Epic
AI Aggression - Aggressive
Barbarians - Standard
Permanent Alliances Enabled
No City Razing

Notes

Please visit the Civ4 SGOTM reference thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=168439) to check out the rules and procedures to ensure that you are adequately prepared for this game.

BOTH Civilization IV v1.61 and Warlords v.2.08 are supported for this SGOTM. No other versions can be used, and you will have to stick with your chosen version throughout the game.

Teams will compete for four awards for each version of the game - the Gold, Silver and Bronze Laurels for the fastest finishes, and the Wooden Spoons for the lowest scoring finisher.

All teams must play the sponsored variant - awards will be given to teams who achieve Diplomatic or Space victories in the least turns.

All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.


Remember, Rule Number 11: Have Fun. :)

First post :p Wazzup peeps, signing in :goodjob:

Singing in :goodjob: Let the succesion game commence ;)

Hmmmm..... Space or Diplomatic, I don't know. Diplomatic may be tough with 17 Aggresive AI civs but with 17 civs, Space won't be easy either. I guess that we can take out a few civs but i don't know at the moment.

Starting Postition. Interesting with 2 spices and 2 clam. I would like to see what is in the fog though before deciding.

Though right now i need to know you all, who else is in this team?

Please make sure you let me know asap if you want a new team name.

It may also be a good idea for someone to PM the other team members to let them know you are here. Newbies to SGOTMs don't always notice.

Start position is nice except kinda lacking in shield department. 2 floodplains, 2 clams, 2 spices, plenty of forests, this could work. I don't see anything more interesting around to move the settler except that we'll lose floodplains. Scout to the east first then north?
I agree, diplo will be hard since the AI will start out annoyed at us. we should go bash a couple of civs first to have some nice territory then go for space.

A new name, that would be nice, but we need a vote with everyone on this team to be here. g_storrow, mikeyredk, pavelthesecond and St John still need to check in. We should PM them to let them know we have began the pre-game discussion.
We probably should go for space, get philosophical going for a golden age during the space race, and we WIN!
.
.
.
OK not yet

If you are going to change your name you are probably already too late, as there are still only two of you here. The name has to be branded into your starting save before we open the game in a couple of days time.

Hello,

Immaculate checking in!

I play-tested a 17-civilization archipelago map the other night (got to about 500AD or so- approximately) and I have some thoughts.

In regards to the opinions relating to diplomacy, first of all, the AI doesn’t necessarily have to start off angry with you.
If you already have alphabet when you meet a civilization, on the first round of meeting them, you can gift them a tech and they immediately get a +4 bonus to their diplomacy for ‘fair trades’. This will wear off if you don’t keep trading (not gifting) with them, but if you keep trading (aka- they aren’t the Japanese), then the bonus will only get bigger. This is because, in the first round that you meet a civilization, any diplomatic modifiers are multiplied. So its good to open borders and trade in the first round you meet them.
This is a great way to ensure that a civilization (even one of an opposing religion) doesn’t think you are their worse enemy. The problem with this technique is that you can very easily accumulate ‘you traded with our worse enemy’ modifiers without realizing it.
I don’t know the specifics about this, but that’s the essentials. I suggest that you try a game with these conditions (17 civilizations, archipelago) so you can experience it for yourself before you jump into the game.
Its worth bee-lining to fishing/sailing then to writing and alphabet to do this. So our starting techs should be minimal worker techs, then sailing, then straight to alphabet (writing for open borders and more exploration and alphabet to trade with the other civilizations).
One of the things I would be very interested in learning is if you have to trade with them the first time the trade-screen comes up (when they introduce themselves) of if you can do it later but within the same round (thereby giving you time to examine the inter-civ relationships before you commit to trading with someone).

Secondly, with 17 civilizations, trading is key, it pays to explore early (as i mentioned) and it pays to get alphabet early (not only to gift techs for diplomatic reasons, but also to trade for them).
Its very important to get an exploring boat out very early.

Thirdly, the great lighthouse is great. So is the collosus. But something better then both of those is 3-5 more cities then most other civilizations. In my test game i made two cities right away (one for GPP for a great scientist, one to build exploring boats, and later a small army), and built the great lighthouse, forge, collosus, library and great library, but i was unable to mount an offensive war until after the BC->AD switch and that cost me. I think the great lighthouse is important (think of its as an extra organized or financial trait, especially in combination with our cheap harbours- expansive remember?), but so is expansion and with 17 civilizaitons, that means war.

In the test game i ran, the one religion with an early shrine VERY quickly became the dominant religion and soon 75% of the world was confucian (Saladin's doing).

Anyway, so i suggest that people have a quick test-game to check out the conditions. its better to be prepared then not prepared right?

And lastly, what name?
Should we make a play on the vanilla thing?
Vanilla bean?
Lucious Vanilla Ice Cream?
These are stupid but maybe people will get talking about a name before we loose the opportunity to change it.

I.

These are stupid but maybe people will get talking about a name before we loose the opportunity to change it.

I think it may already be to late to change the name since we need to do it before 1st december and 4 people still need to check in. New Vanilla seems like some sort of surfing or icecream name so i am fine with it.

Your starting techs are a interesting choice, I will do a test game soon with your theories. I have had some bad experiences with diplomatic in the past. We could still go for backdoor domination though.

I was thinking of taking out 1 or 2 people before cossacks then go crazy and take out 5-7 while making sure we don't get domination by having too much land.

Alright lets change this name… Lets be the Cids Pilots after Cid from FF7

The Flying Vanillas

Alright lets change this name… Lets be the Cids Pilots after Cid from FF7

The Flying Vanillas

sure- sounds good. i don't get the reference, but the name sounds good.

Alright lets change this name… Lets be the Cids Pilots after Cid from FF7

The Flying Vanillas

no objections here. My creative side got hit by a big bus called school. So he won't be back in a while :crazyeye:

Please settle on a new name very soon. We have to freeze it into the saves and the database before the game starts.

It would also be helpful if you can work who's going to be team leader.

The Flying Vanilla's is fine by me.:crazyeye:

Team Leader? well i would say me but i have no experience in archepeligo maps with 17 civs. If no-one else wants to though, i will be it.

St John, pavelthesecond and g_storrow still need to check in.

The Flying Vanilla's is fine by me.:crazyeye:

Team Leader? well i would say me but i have no experience in archepeligo maps with 17 civs. If no-one else wants to though, i will be it.

St John, pavelthesecond and g_storrow still need to check in.

Sure marowaker. Thats fine with me. I suspect its mostly a job that entails cracking the whip :whipped: after late players and interfacing with Alan and his team.

So AlanH, can you make us the "Flying Vanilla"?

:sheep: <----cute

I looked for, and failed to find, the reference. Is that:

- The Flying Vanilla (singular), or
- Flying Vanilla (singular indefinite), or
- The Flying Vanillas (plural), or
- The Flying Vanilla's (possessive) ... or even
- Flying Vanilla's (an abbreviation for 'Flying Vanilla is' )?

Sorry to be picky, but we do have to live with your choice for the next three months or so, and then it lives forever in the SGOTM archives :p

Sure marowaker. Thats fine with me. I suspect its mostly a job that entails cracking the whip :whipped: after late players and interfacing with Alan and his team.

I am fine with the job then, anyone have any objections?

I looked for, and failed to find, the reference. Is that:

- The Flying Vanilla (singular), or
- Flying Vanilla (singular indefinite), or
- The Flying Vanillas (plural), or
- The Flying Vanilla's (possessive) ... or even
- Flying Vanilla's (an abbreviation for 'Flying Vanilla is' )?

Sorry to be picky, but we do have to live with your choice for the next three months or so, and then it lives forever in the SGOTM archives :p

Let's just call it what mikeyredk called it, the 3rd one

Still waiting on those 3 people to check in

Hello Guys!

Alan told me you guys were short in one player, so I´m wondering if i can join the team? The last four games I´ve played was Archipelago, with the Vikings, i think we´ll do just fine with the Soviets.

So if you take me, Im cheking in.

Ah... Flying Vanillas ... Nice ONE

I Also think the starting position is fine. We may find a good spot for another city in the same little island. I think Imaculate is right about our tech aiming. Sailings will be very important, plus trading with other civs will require meeting them. Im not sure about the gifting tecs early on. We could easily be gifting a CIV that wont become a powerfull ally.

A couple of questions:
1 - We will be playing on civ 4 patched right? Not warlords?
2 - Can anyone post a link to a reference file (Tech tree, Civ traits and stuff). I lost my last one.

Hello Guys!

Alan told me you guys were short in one player, so I´m wondering if i can join the team? The last four games I´ve played was Archipelago, with the Vikings, i think we´ll do just fine with the Soviets.

So if you take me, Im cheking in.

Ah... Flying Vanillas ... Nice ONE

Ummm... just so you know, this is Vanilla (hence the name), so no vikings here. Just the standard 17.

Edit:

A couple of questions:
1 - We will be playing on civ 4 patched right? Not warlords?
2 - Can anyone post a link to a reference file (Tech tree, Civ traits and stuff). I lost my last one.


1) Oops- yeah, i guess you already knew. Hehe
2) I think you can find them from the main page. Don't know exactly where.



Also: I was thinking about Diplomacy.
We can safely assume (i believe) that by the time anyone builds the United Nations, most civilizations will be in Free Religion. And most will be in the democracy-type civics (free speech, emancipation, free religion, all those good ones). We may want to make our early selection procedure (if we do diplomacy) based on who has what favorite civics late in the game. If a civ's favorite civic is 'free religion' or 'emancipation', then it might work to our advantage to ally for later voting. By the time the voting comes along, we'll be in their favorite civic and we'll get that little bit extra that we might need to get them to vote for us.

Gustavoghe- give gifting tech early a try (if you have the time and patience). Just giving them something like meditation or polytheism or animal husbandry/wifery :sheep: immediately gives you a +4 to your relations and thats HUGE, especially early in the game- it can easily overcome most religious differences (not Izzy of course) and might even get Toku to open his borders. And giving them an early tech like that prior to most developing alphabet is a pretty small price to pay. But absolutely, we must be careful as to who we gift to and who we freeze out.

I.

I Also think the starting position is fine.

I guess we just need to figure out where to move the scout so we can see more of the map and make a truly informed decision before we actually settle, but yeah, it looks good.

Though:

If we settle in place, and start building a workboat right away how many turns it will take? I gues since we´ll be aiming for growth as well, in the first 20 turns a boat will cost us about 15 turns. I think that is a resonable target, dont you guys? Especialy if growth is our ultimate goal.

There is one thing we have to define right away to focus our game plan discussion. That is, what will we be aiming for? Imaculate, am I wrong or you are inclined for a diplomacy victory? I never won diplomaticly (Does that word exists ? Sorry Brazilian)Where are the other guys?

Though:

If we settle in place, and start building a workboat right away how many turns it will take? I gues since we´ll be aiming for growth as well, in the first 20 turns a boat will cost us about 15 turns. I think that is a resonable target, dont you guys? Especialy if growth is our ultimate goal.

There is one thing we have to define right away to focus our game plan discussion. That is, what will we be aiming for? Imaculate, am I wrong or you are inclined for a diplomacy victory? I never won diplomaticly (Does that word exists ? Sorry Brazilian)Where are the other guys?


1) Russia doesn't start with fishing.

2) I agree with you that the two options are completely different games. With this many civs, there are sure to be MANY enemy cities with TONS of archers/defensive units stacked in them in the mid and late games (because expansion will be difficult and they'll just build a bunch up). that will make taking the required resources for a spaceship launch difficult. BUT, i think it would be a more enjoyable game (i like to war).


It would be great if people ran a game with similar set-ups to this one so you (plural) get a feeling for how this will play out. Maybe not right away, but before you play your first turn anyway maybe.

@Brazillians: don't apologize. The rest of the world is thankful to you for your Women's Beach Volleyball teams. :groucho: we can put up with a few made-up (or is it real?) words. My portuguese isn't that great either. ;)

Settling in place is usually not a good idea… but this can work if we can chop those forests to the north to get rid of defensive bonuses for attackers farm the right tile. For a work boat it will take us 15 turns to build but as mentioned earlier we don't have fishing so that has to wait. Also move scout to that eastern hill for a better vantage point

signing in. On holiday in NY for the week and my rented apartment internet keeps going down. Can you put me near the end fof the roster please

So what would our first tech be? with the amount of forests we have, I think bronze working might be a good idea, chop chop chop to expand. I'd settle in place and work the floodplains tile and start on worker. If I'm not mistaken, BW and worker should finish at about the same time?we don't have to worry about barbs that much coz we are at the corner of a penisula there are acouple of coke points we could just use and we'll be fine.

signing in. On holiday in NY for the week and my rented apartment internet keeps going down. Can you put me near the end fof the roster please

Sure. I have a real life as well. I know what you mean.

St John and pavelthesecond still need to check in, but i think we have enough people(6) so the roster at the moment looks like:

marowaker
Immaculate
Prominence
mikeyredk
gustavogue
g_storrow[away for week]

If you have any objections or preferences, well say them:)

I think that we should go for warring in the 1st part of the game until cossacks get obsolete, then go for a space ship launch.

First moves, move the scout 1 NE, save report back, then move the settler on what we find. After that Research Sailing, military techs[not iron working], then Alphabet. Then declare war on person close if not an ally, then do the same on everyone else. I think we should defeat at least 3 civilizations first.

Scout: I think you are better off going directly east then north, then just north-east. This way you will get to see the tile directly east of the starting settler (i believe).

Techs: I don't think we should put off fishing. As much as i like to chop/whip, we need growth. I suggest we research fishing right out the gate (then go to bronze working). To make optimal use of this strategy, i think we could build a warrior while researching fishing (and growing) and then switch to bronze working and a fishing boat. The fishing boats will allow to make effecient use of the slavery civic and should let us get out an exploratory force/settlers quicker because more food=more hammers.
It may be worth doing some math on this... (anyone into that?)

In terms of short term goals... i think we should try to accomplish three things:
1) get an exploratory force out (either galley or fishing boat) and start making contacts
2) get three cities up and going.
a) one city builds a lighthouse and the greatlighthouse
b) one city builds a library and runs two scientist ASAP for a great scientist, then immediately, a second one.
c) one city builds a the troops we need to protect ourselves and maybe some workers, etc.
3) get the great lighthouse. On this map, with these settings, and with this leader, there is no better wonder then the great lighthouse. Reasons:
a) Peter is philosophical which means we will probably try to run a specialist/hybrid economy (maybe not in the capital- it looks perfect high-density cottage spam/academy. Which means that you need a certain amount of commerce just to keep afloat and pay the bills. The great lighthouse will provide that.
b) With this many other civs, foreign trade routes with other, large cities, will be fairly easy to get (unless we piss off our neighbors and can't get trade routes open- another reason to do an early gift approach). That means that early trade routes will be worth ~3commerce/turn. With the great lighthouse, that becomes 9commerce/turn. The difference is akin to having a mature cottage right off the bat in every city.
c) we are also expansionist. that means cheap harbors (one pop whip harbors?). Without the great lighthouse, these equal about 1-2 commerce/turn (more after currency). With the great lighthouse, double or even 2.5x that value. We can leverage the expansionist trait that much more with the great lighthouse.
d) Think of the great lighthouse as the organized trait and harbours (when combined wiht the great lighthouse) as extra courthouses. We can expand that much more early (by war if we want to) on if we want to and it becomes available immediately, because once we have the great lighthouse, extra trade routes become available as soon as city is founded. The great lighthouse will allow us to keep warring and taking cities without sinking our economy, if thats what we want to do.
4) Establish early GPP factory.
This GPP generation doesn't have to be longterm. It can be one fish, a fishing boat, and a library and thats enough to run some scientists. I propose really leveraging our philosophical trait very early. Our second or third (preferably second) city should be focused on this (not our capital which has enough wood to chop the great library then become a cottage/commerce facility). With the great scientist, use the first to get philosophy, Taoism and allow a switch to pacifism. This will increase our GPP production even further and allow another scientist right away (we should try to develop a formal and long-term GPP spot soon after this). Philosophy is an nice expensive tech, great for trade value, but better for hoarding as a choke-point towards liberalism. The second scientist should build an academy in the capital (or other cottage/commerce specialized city if we don't cottage spam the capital).

With our set-up, i don't think it pays to chase the oracle. The only other wonder i think would be worthwhile is the pyramids but those are expensive and definately secondary to the great lighthouse in my opinion.

Then, once we have three cities, are on our way to the great lighthouse and have established an early (albeit probably temporary) GPP farm, we build an army and conquer some cities (catapults and swordsmen maybe- or maybe just swordsmen if we are a bit lucky).

These are just some ideas. I am open to alternatives.

That idea actually seems like a better one overall Immaculate.Great job:goodjob: The only thing i am conserned with is when are we going to go for military and wipe out a few people. I see no problems though. We can start the game tomorrow, and i just realised that i can't start the roster due to something called real life. Immaculate, you seem to have a strategy going, i will put you on first if you don't mind.

Immaculate
marowaker
Prominence
mikeyredk
gustavogue
g_storrow

I think that we should go for warring in the 1st part of the game until cossacks get obsolete, then go for a space ship launch.

I guess we will be aiming for SPACE then. I would vote for that(Swords Clashing noise, and the crowd goes "WAR WAR WAR!")


First moves, move the scout 1 NE, save report back, then move the settler on what we find. After that Research Sailing, military techs[not iron working], then Alphabet. Then declare war on person close if not an ally, then do the same on everyone else. I think we should defeat at least 3 civilizations first.

Agreed with first move. But im still thinking in the first build. I dont think we should spend GROWING TURNS and building a worker right away. Better get a barraks started, and then save it for a more adequate moment later on. If our first tech will be sailing, we should start the working boat right after discovery, thus, queuing the barraks.

Cossaks, will need horses so we got to have in mind the probability of not having any around. Even on islands close by.

repeat post couldnt see my previous post,

Agreed with first move. But im still thinking in the first build. I dont think we should spend GROWING TURNS and building a worker right away. Better get a barraks started, and then save it for a more adequate moment later on. If our first tech will be sailing, we should start the working boat right after discovery, thus, queuing the barraks.




Substitute warrior for barracks and i agree with you. Reason: we will need miltiary police or our growth will be curtailed.

Okay: so short term plan will be
work the highest food/commerce tiles
while building warrior
while researching fishing

once fishing is done, focus on hammers (or hammer/commerce if available)
and build workboat
and start researching bronze working?

-i'll stop once i move the scout to ask people's opinion on settling
-i'll stop once we get a workboat if that happens before my turns are up

If anything else of interest happens, i'll stop and ask people's opinions also.

Guys!

Sorry about the newbie question. How many turns each of us will have?

Usually the team-leader decides that, but if you have a quick read through (or skim) of some of the SGOTM2 threads, the teams that did well are the ones who took their time, stopped to discuss important decisions and stopped at major decision-making points as opposed to at a set time/turn. Its marowaker's (and everyone else's too) call though.

I thought its something strict, like each will play 10 turns. So i guess i'll have to wait a loooooooonnnnnngggg time to play.. shocks..

Other topics. Following Imaculate ideas, about the 3 cities going. I think our first city will be the GP farm then? Did i get it wrong? After some turns, maybe we could find another goos spot for it?

I thought its something strict, like each will play 10 turns. So i guess i'll have to wait a loooooooonnnnnngggg time to play.. shocks..

Other topics. Following Imaculate ideas, about the 3 cities going. I think our first city will be the GP farm then? Did i get it wrong? After some turns, maybe we could find another goos spot for it?

I was thinking making our capital our wonder building city in the short term (for lighthouse and great lighthouse) then switching it to commerce with a bunch of cottages. It could be the great person spot too (but if we find another high-food spot- thats probably better). Lets get into the game a bit to decide that though- based on the lay of the land, etc.

Looks like the saves are available.

i have to go home for lunch anyway, so i will try to open it up (at that time) and move the settler and post a picture
this is assuming that loading the new version of HOF doesn't take too long or that nothing comes up (:sheep:).

Immac.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG

Scout has one movement left. Where to with scout's second move? Still want to move into northern jungle? I think we should move onto one of the hills. Hills give more visibility radius. I think we should go on the hill to our northwest to see what we can see from there.
What do you want me to do?

The good news is that if we build our capital on the spot, we can build a second city to the north-east, on the hills directly northeast of the scout's present position (yummy plains hill central location gives +1 hammer and the fish adn clam give LOTS of food) and use that for our GPP (or production if we get more hills/forests).

Nice spot.

Scout: Yeah, i think you should get to the hills, that will be nice and we will be able to figure out a second city spot. Can you post another picture?

I think building the COLOSSUS and the light House in the first city will be tricky since we dont have a good amount of hammers. If you trust we can don that with out a problem, ill go with your decision. Trying to buid a second city for wonder productions would be to hard also. We would need at least 20 to 25 turns to get a settler. But the hills up north are promessing.

I dont think we gonna be able to get (into city radious) all 4 ocean resources that apear on the map. If we try to do that we will overlap a lot of land titles, that is not a good thing. Unless we build in the hills northeast from the scout. I dont think we want to loose the possibility of mining that.

So maybe: We should settle in place, thus getting the 2 clams, and try to see a little more up north. If there is more land we can build our city about 3 tittles north.

Remeber imacculate speaking of a third city, a army building city? Since we dont have a lot fo hammers around we will be needing that exploratory party right away. So i guess the production line we discussed earlier still holds, aiming for that work boat.

Moving the scout revealed:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG

Proposed city sites:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/planning_our_first_city.JPG

It would be nice to know whats under that fog tile (with the green dot), as well as whats in the fog to the east (though, for our decision making purposes we have to assume its just plain ugly 1 commerce ocean.

The scout is finished moving. The settler can either explore the alternate (green) city site, or can build immediately (or do something else).

I will wait for people to express their opinions on potential founding sites before i finish the year 4000BC.


PS: @gustavoghe:

I think building the COLOSSUS and the light House in the first city will be tricky since we dont have a good amount of hammers.
Do you think we should try to build the colossus? Its either the coloossus or an early war. We can't really have both. I would lean towards trying to capture the collosus over building it, but thats just my opinion.

Build where you stand

Build where you stand !!!

Questions:

How do you get that screenshot? How do you make the fatcrosses?

Sorry: Newbie.

hey, sorry about the late reply.
i was overwelmed with university work for the last 2 weeks.

just spent 30min reading the whole thread. I would prefer to go for a space race, my experience with diplo being limited.

i agree with gustavoghe: build where you stand.

to take a screenshot press 'print screen' on your keyboard. It is sometimes abriviated to 'PrtSc' or something like this.

I also vote for settling in place. not much compelling reason to move the settler anywhere.

also, I agree with building the light house, but about the collssus, I think we should wait and see how things develop. If there are no neighbors within easy reach of us, then I guess we can divert to the collssus. But, that situation seems unlikely given that this is a map with 17 aggressive AI.

Building the light house means we'll need both sailing (light house) and Masonry (great light house). Should we go for them before or after the initial worker techs? I think it's safe to go for sailing after bronzeworking. I don't see any resources that require special worker techs that we won't already have by then.

Sorry i have been away for so long. That's why i made Immaculate go first.

Sorry about the newbie question. How many turns each of us will have?

Immaculate is right. We will havea discussion about what to do every 10 turns. Immaculate is first so he can get 15, then i will play 15 to even it out and then 10 from there.

Build where you stand !!!

I agree, the fogged out tile might be a resource and i don't wna to wast a turn.

hey, sorry about the late reply.
i was overwelmed with university work for the last 2 weeks.

That's alright, there is a thing called real life, it always comes before civ iv.

Good job with moving the scout, settle in place.

The roster with pavelthesecond joining is as follows:

Immaculate<going now>
marowaker<on deck>
Prominince
mikeyredk
gustavogue
g_storrow
pavelthesecond

Founding Moscow (4000BC):

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG

Moscow is set to build a worker while working floodplains (3food, 1commerce)

In 3760BC (7turns), Moscow's borders expand and we finish fishing. I switch from a warrior to a fishing boat. To speed up the fishing boat i work the spice plains forest (1 food, 2 hammers, 1 commerce). I set research to bronze working.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/Civ4ScreenShot0003.JPG

Here is what our scout has uncovered. Our island is pretty large after all with many potential settling sites.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/Civ4ScreenShot0004.JPG


I'll play the rest tomorrow. I just came back from a dinner-party and its 2:30am. I need sleep (not a young kid anymore :cry: )
edit: if we are playing 15 a piece, i can do that easily enough. hold on and i will finish up my turn and you can take it. lets not move too quick though, but in 8 more turns we won't be done the fishing boat or bronze working, so simple enough to get there...
edit2: i'm having difficulties with the HOF mod loading correctly. I'll just work on it tomorrow morning.


While i get that sorted out (and sleep), i think we should consider the following options:

1) research 'the wheel' and 'pottery' on our way to writing and alphabet before we research 'sailing' or 'masonry'. This would mean that we would be building settlers and warriors for our own island for a bit before we move off the island and that our exploratory party would probably be a workboat. It would also mean that we could get cottages set up earlier.
Pros? Cons?
2) research sailing before we move towards writing and the alphabet. this would let us build a galley earlier, and let us colonize/explore other islands earlier. it would also let us load our scout onboard a galley and use those as a pair for scouting.
Pros? Cons?



this assumes we want to get to writing through pottery... the other options are priesthood (no point as i see it) or animal handling (only point would be to find horses)- i think roads and cottages are more important- remember- we also get 1/2 price granaries, combine that with good food and slavery and thats LOTS of hammers early in the game

Good job Immaculate. I was right with a resource there.:) .

Lokking at the resources, STONE!!!:) :) ;) :D . YAY, but that doesn't help us much, as the 2 sea wonders don't need stone.

3 spices. that makes calender a priority. There are Gems which could make our research go flying. and there is cows, mooo.

I do have one question though, when you(or I) finish that workboat, are we going to use it as an exploration tool or do we use it for a clam?

First the bad news. My laptop went caput! I dont knowwat happend, i turned it on today when i got home from work and it loaded all right, but then i stepd out for dinner and the laptop went into hibernation, when i got back it was crashed. I got a blues screen about a boot something... No worries. I will get it fixed ASAP I hope its not a hardware problem. I need my computer. I spent the last weeks desigining and reading about XML to star moding and creating a scenario for south america. Got everything on paper and stuff. And now i dont have my cpu. I will get it FIXED!! I promisse. At leat before my turns. Sorry I know its not your problem, but im just so sad...

Good news. WOW WHAT AN ISLAND ! Im thinking we maybe able to set up 4 cities on this piece of land. Becouse of all that land, i think primary working techs will be necessary. But I still think the goal should be the workboats. With our first city producing a lot of food we wont have to worry about settleling the island. So i gues we should inly star building the lighthouse after we finish at least one work boat.

The second city should be place in a way that ig get almost every hill available. And then we should go for those gems and cows up north. Science City!!We can build a good second city and them cram 2 cities up north to get the ocean resources.

Notice: I'll be away tomorrow. I'll try to see whats going on about 5 o clock, Brazilian time. Fell free to get the next moves going on. with out my input.

Remember: Boat then Light house. Those are our guide lines.

Wish me luck with my computer. I have a backup thought... but i do liketoi play in my own.

The save has been succesfully uploaded.

I played 15 turns as requested.

Here is your Session Turn Log from 4000 BC to 3550 BC:

Turn 0, 4000 BC: Moscow has been founded.

Turn 7, 3790 BC: You have discovered Fishing!
Turn 7, 3790 BC: The borders of Moscow have expanded!

Turn 11, 3670 BC: Barbarian's Panther (2.00) vs The Flying Vanillas's Scout (2.70)
Turn 11, 3670 BC: Combat Odds: 21.1%
Turn 11, 3670 BC: (Animal Combat: +20%)
Turn 11, 3670 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 11, 3670 BC: (Class Animal Combat: +100%)
Turn 11, 3670 BC: The Flying Vanillas's Scout is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 11, 3670 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 11, 3670 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 11, 3670 BC: The Flying Vanillas's Scout is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 11, 3670 BC: The Flying Vanillas's Scout is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 11, 3670 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 11, 3670 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 11, 3670 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 11, 3670 BC: The Flying Vanillas's Scout has defeated Barbarian's Panther!

Turn 12, 3640 BC: Buddhism has been founded in a distant land!

Our scout is currently recuperating at the far western end of our island.
Here is our island:


http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/Civ4ScreenShot0005.JPG



My thought on where we should go from here.

Research wise: I think that we should finish bronze-working and start on the wheel, pottery/sailing (not sure on the timing of these two- might be safer to go with sailing first so it is available when we need it), writing, alphabet. I don't think we need sailing until our second city is up and running which gives us some time to research 'the wheel' and maybe even 'pottery'
Production wise: finish the workboat (and work the nearest source of clams). Switch to the warrior (should have some hammers invested already). Work the highest food source tiles (clams, floodplains) while building the warrior but try to time (by MMing tiles) the production of the warrior with growth to size 3 for our city, then switch to a worker. Finish the worker and build a settler.
Settler goes to the spot with the plains hills to the north-east of our capital (one of the only spots not completely sourrounded by jungle) and starts on a workboat, then a library (or library then workboat if we want to work the fish instead of the clams which has more food).
Capital finished the settler and starts on a galley. Load scout on gally and go exploring. Finish galley and chop a settler, then lighthouse and great lighthouse (trade for masonry). Chop our forests to get the great lighthouse (and settlers).
Once second city builds a library, and has food from the seafood nearby, get it to size 3 (its probably been whipped for workboats/library) and run two scientist specialists.

So first thing: research 'the wheel' after bronze working and finish a warrior after the workboat (preferably time the warrior to finish as we research size 3).

Anyway, thats just one possible route we could take. Others might have a different take on it.

research: bronze -> wheel -> pottery -> sailing ->writing ->alphabet
switch sailing and pottery around if we can't get both in time Moscow finishes settler.
production plans look good.

I was thinking about bronze-working and cutting trees.
The only hammers/turn we have in our capital right now are the forests.
If we chop them we lose our hammers/turn.
I don't think we should chop any forests until we start building the great lighthouse. I also think that we can hover around size five or so (i could be wrong) while building the lighthouse which means we will work all four grasslands forest, and the plains, spice forest. Once we cut one of the plains forest (the ones along the river first hopefully) (during production of the great lighthouse), we will need to switch our citizens to the plains north of north-east of the capital. To make that worthwhile, we should build a cottage there if possible.

The other alternative is to commit our second city to the great lighthouse since it may have much greater production also has trees to cut. This would also let us chop forests near our capital to get our settlers out quicker. The more i look at the potential production of our capital, the more i worry.

Is anyone comfortable doing the world-builder thing to recreate what we can see of the map? We could try different ways of getting to three cities, a scouting party (by boat) and the great lighthouse. Maybe we are better off building the greatlighthouse in a second city with hills? I don't know.:confused:

FYI: gustavoghe has changed his nick to MightyGooga. I have changed his name in your team roster on the database as well.

Good work on that round, our island is big enough to have at least 5 or 6 cities on it. I will take your advice, because it sounds alright but i don't see the save aywhere. I doesn't matter since i am not on the computer i play civ on.
The only time we should chop forests are when we go for a wonder like the great lighthouse that is a big deal for us. Maybe that city with hills could be where our 2nd city goes and where the great lighthouse goes.

Good work on that round, our island is big enough to have at least 5 or 6 cities on it. I will take your advice, because it sounds alright but i don't see the save aywhere. I doesn't matter since i am not on the computer i play civ on.
The only time we should chop forests are when we go for a wonder like the great lighthouse that is a big deal for us. Maybe that city with hills could be where our 2nd city goes and where the great lighthouse goes.

thats what i was thinking too.
The save can be downloaded from the results page (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php)
The link for uploading the saved file is there too.
Explanations for how this all works were written in the maintenance thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=193978).

thats what i was thinking too.
The save can be downloaded from the results page (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php)
The link for uploading the saved file is there too.
Explanations for how this all works were written in the maintenance thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=193978).

Ah must have missed that.

I will do my turnset tommorrow, when i have the time.

OK i have done my turnset. Some interesting things happened this time round, mainly in the late part but anyway:

Turn 0-Inherited turn: Nothin to do but press enter.

Turn 2-Played around with Moscow's tiles so that it would grow size 3 when
we finish the warrior. Didn't work out well.

Turn 10-Out workboat finished and i put it on one of our clams. Our warrior would now be complete 1 turn after the city grows.

Turn 12- Met this brute:
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1136/civ4screenshot0001yj7.jpg

Our first target has shown up!:clap: And this guy is a person who i like to kill.:dance: :sniper:

Where did he appear?
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/4117/civ4screenshot0002ji2.jpg

Yes he lives on that island.

Turn 13-Discover bronze working and switch to slavery.

Do we have copper?
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/2217/civ4screenshot0005oo9.jpg

YES! we have copper.:goodjob: :thumbsup: It's on the other side of the island though. Looks like our 3rd city has to go there.

Turn 15-Not much, except that we will be attacked by a panther next turn. :rolleyes:
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/5504/civ4screenshot0006lx6.jpg

A screenshot of our island:
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/9144/civ4screenshot0007yk2.jpg

I was just following Immaculate's plan for this round. It seemed pretty good. That means that:
As soon as the wheel is done we go Pottery, Sailing, Animal Husbandry(For Horses), Writing and Alphabet.
We build a worker after the warrior, then a settler, then a galley for our scout to ride on.

Hello !!! It seems you guys have been pretty busy. I like where we are going.

The comment made by Imacullate about our HAMMERS/TURN is very bold. We dont want to loose hammers in time we´re building our fishing boat. So lets just wait to cut those trees for the light house. What we cant do to support our settler production, thus our ILSAND occupation is develop a strong agricultura, and that takes us again to the fishing boats. I noticed we have one already, we need more. And then farm like hell.

Next city: Southwest from those stones. That is a good location. But it overlaps a bit. If we build there we will have our production city. Maybe we can even build the lighthouse over there.

I FINNALY GOT MY NICK CHANGED !!!

Marowaker mentioned going for animal husbandry. I don’t want to be any animal’s husband. We are the Russians but we aren’t Catherine (). If we take time out to get animal husbandry, that’s alright, but we have copper, so horses are not as valuable as they might otherwise be. In my humble opinion (but I can be persuaded) we should skip animal husbandry and trade for it after bee-lining alphabet.

I was thinking of the alternate plan (use second city to build the great lighthouse instead of the capital) and here is how i would implement it. But, just because i write something, doesn't mean we should do it. I would really like to here some other (dissenting) voices.

So here is the (proposed) plan:
Research: the wheel, sailing, pottery (or switch pottery and sailing), writing and alphabet. By the time we get alphabet we should have an exploratory boat out there trying to make contacts and be ready to trade for ‘masonry’. Masonry is important to the (proposed) plan but we don’t need it right away and I think we are better off getting alphabet early to get in on tech trading with up to 16 other civilizations right away.

Production:
Moscow: Finish the worker, then, instead of keeping all our forests and trying to build the lighthouse and great lighthouse, chop the forests (keep the two grassland forests that aren’t on the river), whip the crap out of this city, and try to get settlers (and warriors) out as quick as possible. So, in this (proposed plan) Moscow’s function would be to get settlers (and warrior escorts) out as fast as possible. Once those settlers are out, get another two workers and a couple of work-boats out as well (we would need to discuss the order to this later on).
Use these settlers to set up two cities.
a) The first would go on the hills to the north-east of the capital (in range of the clams, two forested hills, and stone). We would have to figure out at what rate Moscow is building culture. If it is able to expand to include the forested hill tile (one south and two west of the stone) within a usable time-frame, we could start the second city directly on a workboat (for the clams) (whip), a lighthouse (whip), then the great lighthouse (chop, chop and later, whip). If Moscow’s culture isn’t likely to let us work that forested hill in the near future, we may need to get culture into the second city at some point (though I think we can skip this). The second city could work both hills as mines (and later the stone quarry) for hammers and the clams for food. Two forest chops (the forested hills) could speed along its production as well.

EDIT: Mighty Googa (nice name change by the way) suggests a different site with more land, a plains hill but one less fish. Its a good idea but I want to hear from others too.

b) The second city would go on the jungle tile two north and one east of the copper (in range of the fish I think?) and immediately start on a library to get its culture up and to allow two scientists. Until it gets its culture up, it would be a crap city, but once it does, it can work the fish and run two scientists while allowing us to hook up the copper for some axemen/spearmen. So we would have our GPP city up and running (though the library is the limiting factor here). The reason I suggest this site is because of the copper, if we want to forgo the copper, we can use a different site, but copper would be nice sooner then later.

EDIT: Downside to this site is that we completely lose the very south-west gems.

The (proposed) alternate plan has the advantage that we would get our second and third cities out faster then we would if we kept all the capital’s forests for chopping the great lighthouse. This lets us get copper faster (and great scientists) but I am not sure if it would increase or decrease the amount of time it would take to get the great lighthouse.

Ok. One thing i defently agree with you and that is focusing Moscow ina settler rush.

I was thinking about the city north from the bronze site. We could forget about the fish. By the time we get that going I dont think it will be that usefull anymore. My reason: We are going to populate the island, that will cost us. The gems we are ignorig will be a very valuable resource, 1- For whiping (We dont need city readious for this effect, I know), 2- For money we will desperatly need in order to expand.

We can forgone that fish, and aim for a very rich city, to supoort not only resarch but mostly empire gorwth.

One thing we are not talking about is resarching ironworking, the north of our island is fiiled with jungle. That means we wont be albe to build good cities there without cutting jungles. We have to start pondering this.

OTHERS: Imacculate i think its great that you draw a plan and we comment over it. Its better this way, else we would be dealing with more guidelines that our outside life can support. So keep up the good job. Like I said before. I really like where we are going.

Well, i didn't go to the gym.
Instead, i came home and played with the world builder.
Is a 4000BC start with us alone on an island (as Peter) with the same conditions used for this game, except there are no other players and only the time victory condition is enabled.
If you want to, you can load it up and play the game building cities where you want them and researching whatever techs, to see how things turn out without worry about its effect on our actual game. Its a way to mirror our play and to predict some of the things we might be able to do. For SGOTM2, lots of teams tried to set them up. they sort of breakdown once you meet and start trading with other civs, but they are great for city placement, etc.

Too much time (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/World_Builder_BC-4000.Civ4SavedGame)

So, using this set-up, i made two cities. One is inland.
Note that it has a lighthouse and is set for stagnant growth and maximum hammers (without starving). Using this set-up, we could get a maximum of 9hammers/turn towards the great lighthouse. EDIT: the city should be working the quarry, not the hills mine for one additional hammer. It should be producing 10hammers/turn. My bad.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/inland_st.JPG

Here is a mature form of the city at size 20 with all tiles maximized for hammers (including workshops on plains etc) In this case (with a forge) it is building 33hammers/turn.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/mature_inland.JPG

Note that biology, railroads, and the one that gives you extra hammers from workshops and watermills is not yet invented.

Here is a look at the coastal city (at size four), also set for near-stagnant growth (excess food, not less)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/coastal_wo_moscow_culture.JPG

According to the world-builder, if Moscow doesn't build any additional culture (besides the palace) and goes through one revolt to get slavery, its culture will reach 150 in 1720BC and allow the second city to work an additional hill mine (please ignore the culture extending into the ocean for this graphic- increased culture from Moscow would only let us work that western hill anyway)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/coastal_st.JPG

Lastly, here is a look at the mature form of the coastal city (also set up for max hammers with a forge and with the same techs as for the mature form of the slightly more inland city).

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/mature_coastal.JPG

Based on this we can conclude that the great lighthouse would be completed more quickly if we built St. Pete on the plains hill, but its long-term production would be greater if we built it on the grassland jungle.

I have to agree with building on the plainshill. But we could also simulate a city on the grassland hills, and see what can we get from there. I think we gain one more title. Hows that?

I have to agree with building on the plainshill. But we could also simulate a city on the grassland hills, and see what can we get from there. I think we gain one more title. Hows that?

Simulate away. You now have all the tools you need. I think you will find that you'll lack food however.

A few interesting ideas. I believe that our 2nd city could go on the plains hill and our 3rd should go 1 North of the copper. I ahve planneda dotmap in my head but need to get it on my computer. It would fit 7 cities on the island.

Prominence is up.

Immaculate
marowaker(Just Played)
Prominence(Up now)
Mikeyredk(On deck)
mightygooga
g_storrow
pavelthesecond

I'll get it as soon as I get back home today. Flu has been taking its toll on me so I'll just do what everybody tells me to lol. My brain ain't working like it should be.

I think we buidl 2nd city on plains hill.

I agree with not going for AH but shoudl we wait for masonry until we get alphabet? I think it is not that expensive and we maybe get it after writing?
This is I thought we were going to start lighthouse as soon as the 2nd city was up? Do we have the lighthouse tech yet?

I agree with the churning of settler and warriors out for the 3rd city.

Hello,

I will have to ask you guys to skip my turn, my laptop is still on the shop, and my sisters computer is crappy. So Please skip my turn.

This also the reason why i havent simulated the city on grassland hills thing. Sorry about sounding like i wanted you to do something Imaculate. But looking at the pictures again, i realized that YES WE ARE GONNA LACK ON FOOD. So build away.

This also the reason why i havent simulated the city on grassland hills thing. Sorry about sounding like i wanted you to do something Imaculate.

I didn't take it that way. I just wanted people to play with the world builder i had put together :goodjob:


I agree with not going for AH but shoudl we wait for masonry until we get alphabet? I think it is not that expensive and we maybe get it after writing?
This is I thought we were going to start lighthouse as soon as the 2nd city was up? Do we have the lighthouse tech yet?

Thats a really good point. Maybe we should start on sailing after the wheel? Or before wheel is even done? I don't know. How far are we into the wheel? How far do we have to go? How long before we can get a settler out?

If we can, we should try to get sailing before St. Petersburg (spelling) is built so it can start on a lighthouse right away. If its impossible, then we will have to build a workboat for the clams first (don't be afraid to whip it).

You make another really good point too. I think we will need masonry before we finish alphabet. It will also drastically increase our hammer output in St. Pete, so its worth it for the production if nothing else.

Prominence: You got some math ahead of you.
Can you get sailing before the settler is ready to build? If so, great. If not, can you try to make it happen somehow? If totally impossible, then i guess work boat, then lighthouse?
Also, don't forget to build some Defense. We need a warrior for each city as an ABSOLUTE minimum. It may be worth buiding one or two more warriors after the settler before we establish our third city.


The other option to check the timing on techs vs. settler production etc is to use the worldbuilder save and just play it out a few different ways.

Just had another thought. If we have the 1st city doing warriors and settlers up until a point maybe 3rd city and the second city lighthouse/GL, where are we gonig to build this library for GPProduction?

Just had another thought. If we have the 1st city doing warriors and settlers up until a point maybe 3rd city and the second city lighthouse/GL, where are we gonig to build this library for GPProduction?

Originally, i was thinking that we could build it on the south-western end of the island in range of the fish and use the library's culture to hook the fish (and the copper) to run scientists.
Thats a controversial site however, as some have suggested that we build directly north of the copper so we can hook it up earlier (to fight barbs) which is a good point.
Either way, i think we should build our next (3rd) city in one of those two locations as it would be nice to get copper on-line sooner rather then later.
Location one: in range of fish: advantage: faster growth once fish are set up, can be used for GPP. Once mature, has enough food to work all tiles. disadvange: no copper until library is done (pretty big disadvantage), lose the gems (very southwest corner) forever
Location two: north one of copper: huge advantage: immediate copper. don't lose the gems to the south-west. disadvantage; no fish, no high food tile, very slow growth, will never be able to use all the plains tiles- working the copper will stagnate growth.

Ultimately, we can put a GPP city somewhere else as well.
Someone mentioned a dotmap and i want to see that.

Prominence: You got some math ahead of you.
Can you get sailing before the settler is ready to build? If so, great. If not, can you try to make it happen somehow? If totally impossible, then i guess work boat, then lighthouse?
Also, don't forget to build some Defense. We need a warrior for each city as an ABSOLUTE minimum. It may be worth buiding one or two more warriors after the settler before we establish our third city.


The other option to check the timing on techs vs. settler production etc is to use the worldbuilder save and just play it out a few different ways.

got it :goodjob: I'll see what I can do and report back

wait, do u mean get sailing before settler in complete and found the new city so lighthouse can be built there from turn one?

Good news:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/92643/Scout_survives.jpg our scout survives the encounter with the panthers :lol:

no, there are no bad news :p

I finished my 4th turn (I think) and...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/92643/Settler.JPG

As you can see, sailing can be completed way before the settler is completed. So I will go ahead and finish the wheel. Should our next build be a settler or worker? I'll wait for your replies before continuing. OH one more thing, it will take 5 turns to finish the wheel even then, sailing will be done before settler.

Build a worker first. That way you can chop the settlers/warriors.

You don't have to worry about culture (at least in the beginning), because Catherine is creative, +2 culture in each city)

Research: we need to get iron working right after alphabet. AI is usually slow at researching it from my experience and we need it to chop jungle plus I might be fortunate enough to have iron on our island. .

In terms of city placement: I vote for the site north of copper as apposed to the one north east. However, since we are on a fairly small island barbs aren't goanna be a big problem. Just place a couple of warriors through out the island so you can see every (or most) square(s) and problem solved.
Hence, I suggest instead we build the second city directly south of stone and the third city 2 squares east of cow and 2 squares north of rice.
Since our second city is going to be a production city, having fish for extra food is more important then gems for extra commerce. Our third city will have 3 food resources plus gems, perfect for a gp pump.
Only disadvantage is that one gem is not in city radius and we will need iron working sooner then later.

wouldn't it be better to have a 2nd city up ASAP and work on a lighthouse? and We're not cathrine. we're peter.

wouldn't it be better to have a 2nd city up ASAP and work on a lighthouse? and We're not cathrine. we're peter.

right. I played way to many games as Cathrine, so when i see orange i automaticly think its Cathrine. :blush:

I think we get ther worker out straight away to chop settlers /warrior.

We can discuss which city placemnet once we get the worker out.
Should we get a warrior before a settler as well. All these questiosn can be answered in the loner term.

Are we doing 15 turns each?

No. Prominence should do 10 turns and so will everyone else that does their turns from here on in. The 15 turns at the beginning was just for the beginning.

Hello guys, my outside life is getting to my nerves! Im still here. I will get my laptop today! So hopefully i will be able to play my turns.. I´ll post.

Agree with warrior, worker.

Here is your Session Turn Log from 3100 BC to 2800 BC:

Turn 30, 3100 BC: Barbarian's Panther (2.00) vs The Flying Vanillas's Scout (2.70)
Turn 30, 3100 BC: Combat Odds: 21.1%
Turn 30, 3100 BC: (Animal Combat: +20%)
Turn 30, 3100 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 30, 3100 BC: (Class Animal Combat: +100%)
Turn 30, 3100 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 30, 3100 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 30, 3100 BC: The Flying Vanillas's Scout is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 30, 3100 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 30, 3100 BC: The Flying Vanillas's Scout is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 30, 3100 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 30, 3100 BC: The Flying Vanillas's Scout is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 30, 3100 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 30, 3100 BC: The Flying Vanillas's Scout has defeated Barbarian's Panther!

Turn 35, 2950 BC: Hinduism has been founded in a distant land!
Turn 35, 2950 BC: Barbarian's Panther (2.00) vs The Flying Vanillas's Scout (2.22)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: Combat Odds: 43.4%
Turn 35, 2950 BC: (Animal Combat: +20%)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: (Hills: +20%)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: (Class Animal Combat: +100%)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: The Flying Vanillas's Scout is hit for 18 (66/100HP)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: The Flying Vanillas's Scout is hit for 18 (48/100HP)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: The Flying Vanillas's Scout is hit for 18 (30/100HP)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: The Flying Vanillas's Scout is hit for 18 (12/100HP)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: The Flying Vanillas's Scout is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: Barbarian's Panther has defeated The Flying Vanillas's Scout!

Turn 38, 2860 BC: You have discovered The Wheel!

Ok, my turn set is done, nothing much happened except our scout died to 2nd panther. I followed every1's suggestion and started on worker. We finished the whell and started research on sailing. I sent our first warriour up north on fogbusting duty. here's a ss:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/92643/last_turn.JPG

Three thoughts:


Production:

We can:

a) build a warrior then a settler. Building a warrior will take 8 turns and coincide with growth from 3 to 4 (after finishing the worker of course). Afterwards the settler will take 16 turns (i think), for a total fo 24 turns minus any turns for hacking away at forest.
b) build a settler straight away. This will take 22 turns minus any time for hacking away forests.


The difference is 2 (maybe 3) turns.
I think its worth building a warrior. One reason is that it will get us some defense, but more importantly, it will let us whip for 2 population points once the settler gets going. Would this make building a warrior (and growing to size four) actually faster then not building a warrior? We'll have to regrow that population afterwards, but i think we all want to get St. Pete up and working on the great lighthouse as fast as possible right?


DOTMAP:

I suggest the following dotmap. I know in this dotmap we are building the copper city in range of the fish and lose the gems, but this is the path i advocate (i've already explained my reasoning and will be perfectly okay if i am outvoted). Obviously the dotmap would change if we decide to build north of the copper.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/dotmap_2800.JPG


Research:

Can we fit pottery in before we need masonry? Options:

a) wheel, sailing, pottery, masonry, writing, alphabet

Obviously with the first choice we could build a lighthouse, a granery (half price), then a great lighthouse and fit some cottages around Moscow (we will need a fishing boat- where will that come from?). With this option, the great lighthouse may not be available as soon as sailing is done. The other side of the coin is that St. Pete would grow twice as fast and this may mean more net hammers contributed within the lifetime of the great lighthouse's production.


b) wheel, sailing, masonry, pottery, writing, alphabet

With this choice, we could probably move onto the great lighthouse as soon as we are done the lighthouse (we will need a fishing boat- where will that come from).


c) wheel, pottery, sailing, masonry, writing, alphabet

With this choice, we would build St. Pete, set it to a workboat, and whip it at size two, start a granery, work the clam and get back to size two and whip the granery as soon as we reach size two. Only after that would we start a lighthouse and the great lighthouse.






I think for now we just have to finish the worker and sailing (or switch to pottery before completing sailing if we want to go with option C for St. Pete)?

Will play probably friday

Since I was the one that suggested building a city north of bronze. I´ll have to say that the dotmap looks good. I think we maximized the reousrces. So o think the dot map will be allright.

Since I was the one that suggested building a city north of bronze. I´ll have to say that the dotmap looks good. I think we maximized the reousrces. So o think the dot map will be allright.

I think someone else had suggested that site also, so why don't we do a vote when it comes up?

Question,

What software do you use for drawing the radious? And do you edit the picture at all?

Question,

What software do you use for drawing the radious? And do you edit the picture at all?

I'm poor. I use paint. :blush: The only thing i do is add the ugly crooked lines. Probably other programs are better.

My guess is that its only a matter of time before they include a dot-mapping feature in the HOF mod. That things like a swiss-army-knife.

That would be usefull! Thanks for the info

sorry for teh noob question.

Where do we get the save and where do we put it once we finish?

I think option C on the research path to get a workboat first is a good idea before a lighthouse then greatlight house that is assuming we havent already done all the techs by then.
I am unsure abotu whipping a granary in the 2nd city though.

Check the first post in this thread, there you will find a link to the place qhere the save game is. and if im not wrong, you also have to upload it there.

Alright playing now

Not playing don't know why it won't open skip

Well looks like I won't be able to play no HOF mod for the macs just yet…

Not playing don't know why it won't open skip

Well looks like I won't be able to play no HOF mod for the macs just yet…

That totally sucks man. I am pretty sure that there is a HOF for the MACs. One of the admins uses a Mac and i am pretty sure he has been trying to get it to work on his Mac and has had some success. I remember this used to be an issue but i thought it was solved. Try PMing AlanH; he's pretty cool about answering bugs or at least pointing you in the right direction.


Also, check this out. I was playing as Saladin (Monarch, Pangea, 7 opponents) and got a 5-headed hydra (five religious shrines in one city). When i won in the 1800s, i was making 342gpt from the shrines.


http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/5-017_345gpt_at_100_research.JPG

The story behind that game can be found in my signature's link. I just thought i would show you the way it ended.

That totally sucks man. I am pretty sure that there is a HOF for the MACs. One of the admins uses a Mac and i am pretty sure he has been trying to get it to work on his Mac and has had some success. I remember this used to be an issue but i thought it was solved. Try PMing AlanH; he's pretty cool about answering bugs or at least pointing you in the right direction.


Also, check this out. I was playing as Saladin (Monarch, Pangea, 7 opponents) and got a 5-headed hydra (five religious shrines in one city). When i won in the 1800s, i was making 342gpt from the shrines.


http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/5-017_345gpt_at_100_research.JPG

The story behind that game can be found in my signature's link. I just thought i would show you the way it ended.

If you are alright at math (like me) and are VERY presise (also like me) you would find out that you are making 106gpt from the shrines since you get 1 gold from the specialist and 8 gold from the palace as well as +200% from buildings. Still awesome though.:goodjob:

But that is not the purpose of this thread.:sad:

Anyway, i believe in research path A. It goes well with my thoughts.Your dotmap looks allright, ven though we miss out on 2 gems and a fish. They are only important if we can trade them.

Mightygooga, do you have HOF1.61.009? I couldn't open the file with .008 until i relised that there is actually a VERY new version of it out. I wonder if that still applies to Mac's though.

If you are very good at math (like me) and are VERY presise (also like me) you would find out that you are making 106gpt from the shrines since you get 1 gold from the specialist and 8 gold from the palace as well as +200% from buildings. Still awesome though.:goodjob:

But that is not the purpose of this thread.:sad:


Actually, the palace gives 8 commerce not 8 gold, at 100% research, that commerce is going into beakers. very precise you say? [pimp] hehe... you are right though about jacking the thread... sorry :mischief: EDIT: no offense of course...

:sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep:

EDIT: Marrowaker: Do you also like math? If you do and you were willing... would you be able to figure out which of those paths gets us the great lighthouse fastest?

Mightygooga, do you have HOF1.61.009? I couldn't open the file with .008 until i relised that there is actually a VERY new version of it out. I wonder if that still applies to Mac's though.
I think you meant mikeyredk, not MightyGooga?

The first post in the Maintenance thread, and several posts in the Sign-up thread make it clear that SGOTM 3 does not support Mac players.

We were going to create a special, reduced-spec, cross-platform version of the HoF Mod to do so, but when I asked in the sign-up thread there was only one Mac player. He stood down when it looked as if 70 vanilla players would all have to live with a sub-spec mod to accommodate a single Mac player. No one else admitted to using a Mac then, and mikeyredk is the only additional Mac player who has surfaced since.

Roster:

Immaculate
marowaker
Prominence (played)
Mikeyredk(couldn't play due to Mac :cry: )
mightygooga(Up now)
g_storrow
pavelthesecond

Marowaker: Do you also like math? If you do and you were willing... would you be able to figure out which of those paths gets us the great lighthouse fastest?

Sure, I will edit the results when i have the time to do so.

I think you meant mikeyredk, not MightyGooga?

The first post in the Maintenance thread, and several posts in the Sign-up thread make it clear that SGOTM 3 does not support Mac players.

Yes, my mistake, i still have many people to get used to.

The Mac thing is a shame, looks like mikeyredk can't play in this game:sad: :cry: :hammer2:

Awww man. Bad luck m8. I have no objections with the dot map. We're missing two gems and a fish but I think we'll live lol.

yes, the dot map looks like the best overall position for cities.

Mighty, you are aware that its your turn right?

OK, am figuring out the tech path that gives us the Great Lighthouse soonest.

As much as i hate to do it, Mikeyredk can't play. I guess he has a special condition that he is in the team but can't play a round.

Special Honours,:king:

You may post your ideas for your team if you want to.

Immaculate
marowaker
Prominence (just played)
mightygooga (UP) (Does he know?:confused: )
g_storrow
pavelthesecond

EDIT: OK, I haven't done the math yet, but this is what I know on Epic Speed:
A worker costs 90 hammers.
A work boat costs 45 hammers.
A settler costs 150 hammers.
A Lighthouse costs 90 hammers.
The Great Lighthouse is 300 hammers.

Sailing costs 223 beakers
Masonry costs 178 beakers
Pottery costs 178 beakers too.

Food needed to grow=(3xCurrent Population)+30

That means 1-2 would be 33 food
2-3 would be 36 food
and so on....

St Pete(if foundedon the plain hill) has these tiles in the first 9 squares:
1 Clam which would be 4f/2c after work boat
3 Coast tiles which are 2f/2c
1 Plain/Stone which is 1f/4p after a quarry
1 Grassland/Jungle which is 1f
1 Hills/Forest/Grassland which is 1f/2p
1 Plain which is 1f/1p
1 Grassland/Jungle which is 1
and the city square which is 2f/2p/1c
St. Pete,when it gets founded could also work 1 extra plain and 1 Grassland Forest since those are the overlaping tiles and can work them

Moscow can work those 2 tiles I just said above as well as:
7 Coast tiles which is 1f/1c
1 city tile which is 2f/1p(we are working this(I like being presise))
1 floodplain which is 3f/1c
2 Ocean tiles which are 1f/1c
1 Coast/Clam with boats which is 4f/2c(we are working this)
1 Coast/Clam without boats which is 2f/2c
3 Grassland/Forest which is 2f/2p
2 Grassland/Spice which is 2f/1c
1 Plain/Spice/Forest which is 1f/2p/1c(we are working this)

My logic without using any math:
If we are going to build the Great Lighthouse in our 2nd city (which I believe we are) then after the worker that Moscow is building, we build a settler. Then after that we build a Work boat, then some warriors for defence.
The warrior that is now fogbusting could defend St. Pete's until we get some military up. St. Pete's start with a lighthouse for the great Lighthouse while we get the Work Boat running, then goes straight on to the Great Lighthouse. We should time the discovery of Masonry with the time we finish the Lighthouse. We then continue to grow St. Pete's not focusing on production but growth instead. When it hits size 2 we should comtinue growing with the clam and the Hills/Forest/Grassland tile in the first square. We now get 7 food a turn with 2 population.It is mainly a matter of growing to the size in which we can fetch the whip:whipped: . And the worker could help us a bit too.

My tech path would be Sailing > Masonry > Pottery.

Good numbers.
I just have one small concern. We will be running our civilization with only 1 warrior for a long time? Isn't that dangerous. I mean, if we could fog-bust the island (which we would need warriors to do) i wouldn't worry so much but as it is, a single barbarian warrior could ruin all our plans (and destroy our civilization).
IMHO, we should build a warrior after the settler in Moscow.

OK, am figuring out the tech path that gives us the Great Lighthouse soonest.

As much as i hate to do it, Mikeyredk can't play. I guess he has a special condition that he is in the team but can't play a round.

Special Honours,:king:

You may post your ideas for your team if you want to.

Immaculate
marowaker
Prominence (just played)
mightygooga (UP) (Does he know?:confused: )
g_storrow
pavelthesecond

EDIT: OK, I haven't done the math yet, but this is what I know on Epic Speed:
A worker costs 90 hammers.
A work boat costs 45 hammers.
A settler costs 150 hammers.
A Lighthouse costs 90 hammers.
The Great Lighthouse is 300 hammers.

Sailing costs 223 beakers
Masonry costs 178 beakers
Pottery costs 178 beakers too.

Food needed to grow=(3xCurrent Population)+30

That means 1-2 would be 33 food
2-3 would be 36 food
and so on....

St Pete(if foundedon the plain hill) has these tiles in the first 9 squares:
1 Clam which would be 4f/2c after work boat
3 Coast tiles which are 2f/2c
1 Plain/Stone which is 1f/4p after a quarry
1 Grassland/Jungle which is 1f
1 Hills/Forest/Grassland which is 1f/2p
1 Plain which is 1f/1p
1 Grassland/Jungle which is 1
and the city square which is 2f/2p/1c
St. Pete,when it gets founded could also work 1 extra plain and 1 Grassland Forest since those are the overlaping tiles and can work them

Moscow can work those 2 tiles I just said above as well as:
7 Coast tiles which is 1f/1c
1 city tile which is 2f/1p(we are working this(I like being presise))
1 floodplain which is 3f/1c
2 Ocean tiles which are 1f/1c
1 Coast/Clam with boats which is 4f/2c(we are working this)
1 Coast/Clam without boats which is 2f/2c
3 Grassland/Forest which is 2f/2p
2 Grassland/Spice which is 2f/1c
1 Plain/Spice/Forest which is 1f/2p/1c(we are working this)

My logic without using any math:
If we are going to build the Great Lighthouse in our 2nd city (which I believe we are) then after the worker that Moscow is building, we build a settler. Then after that we build a Work boat, then some warriors for defence.
The warrior that is now fogbusting could defend St. Pete's until we get some military up. St. Pete's start with a lighthouse for the great Lighthouse while we get the Work Boat running, then goes straight on to the Great Lighthouse. We should time the discovery of Masonry with the time we finish the Lighthouse. We then continue to grow St. Pete's not focusing on production but growth instead. When it hits size 2 we should comtinue growing with the clam and the Hills/Forest/Grassland tile in the first square. We now get 7 food a turn with 2 population.It is mainly a matter of growing to the size in which we can fetch the whip:whipped: . And the worker could help us a bit too.

My tech path would be Sailing > Masonry > Pottery.

People !!! I asked to be skipped My lap top still isnt working, its kind a hard to find somethhing that will run the game. May I be skipd this turn?

Sorry Mighty.

Roster:

Immaculate
marowaker
Prominence (played)
Mikeyredk(couldn't play due to Mac :cry: )
mightygooga(lap top doesn't work yet)
g_storrow(Up now)
pavelthesecond


:sheep:

Thanks !!! Last friday, after a full work week wtih no CIVING at al, when I got home and turned my LAPTOP it just WENT KAPUFT. Spent the whole weekend NOT playing civilization. My hands are starting to shake. Gona find out about it tomorrow.

Agrree: With the warrior thing. Warriors are cheap. Having a Barbarian city on our island its gonna get expensive. So lets build warriors to lift the fog. This is safer. We are doing a good job towards the GreatLightHouse, we could jeopardize it all if barbarian incursions start to happen. It will take us 10 to 15 turns to build enough warriors to lift the fog. I vote, thats ok.

Sorry to hear that Mighty. I hope that your KAPUFT laptop can be fixed. new ones are too expensive to let an old one go lightly.

The thing about Barb cities also, is that the 'No City Razing' option has been enabled, which means that even a size one city is kept once you run it over. Thats good in that it means if the city is in the right place, you don't have to wait for it to be size two to take it. Its bad because if its not in the right place, you have no option to move it. I think the bad outweighs the good and we have to do our best to prevent the barbs from building on our island (thats what the greek island is for :) )

No Worries Imacul, I´ll get that fixed. Dell Computers, and the ATI Radeon video cards, NO GOOD.

Cant wait to get my turn going.

Yes maybe I should think a bit more on the defence. This is Monarch after all. I think that a warrior on Epic costs 20 hammers. Can anyone prove this(I would, but I am busy).

Either way, there are the numbers. If someone is bored, than they can attempt to organize it better(to the point of finding out what we will do.)

Mightygooga, sorry missed that. :sheep: Don't know what I was smoking there[pimp]

I will play tonight.

I think we should build 1 or two warriors but not fog bust the whole island.
I thought we had the plan to have a warrior escort each settler we are going to build the warrior before the settler. I will ahve a look tonight.

But G, its possible to fogbust we few warriors, we have a lot of hills that will help. In my math we will need 4 to 5 warriors, including the ones protecting cities, that means 3 warriors out, to fogbust. If we are talking 5 to 8 turns a warrior (That is a safe projecction), we can afford a two city warrior build. What do you think?

I have played so it is pavels turn.

I will post more detaisl later.

I messed up on th score as changed mind from sailing to pottery after 3 turns so we have no increase in score. no barbarians. wokrer chopping tile NE . 3 turns left 5 turn left for pottery. working on warrior. Idont know wheter it is worth letting city grow until 4 by working on WB or or barracks or warrior until we hit 4 and then start settler.

I have played so it is pavels turn.

I will post more detaisl later.

I messed up on th score as changed mind from sailing to pottery after 3 turns so we have no increase in score. no barbarians. wokrer chopping tile NE . 3 turns left 5 turn left for pottery. working on warrior. Idont know wheter it is worth letting city grow until 4 by working on WB or or barracks or warrior until we hit 4 and then start settler.

I haven't looked at the save, but that sounds alright. We are now committed to the:
pottery->sailing->masonary route.

This would suggest to me that we build workboat->granary->lighthouse->great lighthouse and whip whenever possible. The granary is cheap and by the time the lighthouse is done, it will have paid for itself by effectively halving the price of the granary itself (population lost will grow back 2x as fast) and the lighthouse (population will again grow back 2x as fast). Once we get to great lighthouse, grow to population happiness cap and then when the end is in sight, allow to grow to size six and whip the last 3 population points towards it as soon as its available. Timing will be tricky but we got lots of people thinking about it.

I think we should grow our capital to size four before we start on a settler then whip ASAP.


Please do post more details at your earliest convenience however.

Sorry to double post (:bump:)
Okay, so i had a chance to look at the save.

I had two thoughts for the next player.

G_starrow is currently chopping a forest. We don't want those hammers to go into warriors or other things like that, we want them to go into the settler so we can get that out faster.

So when you play, make sure to stop the worker before he completes the chop (preferably one turn before the chop is complete- this is called pre-chopping). You can continue chopping for two more turns, then build a road for awhile (or something else like start pre-chopping another forest), then go back to chopping the forest once you reach size 4 and start working on a settler. This puts the hammers into the expensive settler and makes completing it faster.


Secondly, we are currently working the tiles as follows in Moscow:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG

As you can tell, we will finish the warrior in 4 turns, 2 turns before we grow to size 4.

We could grow to size 4 and finish the warrior in time for growth to size 4, if we change tile allocation as follows:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG


I would suggest that you switch to this configuration so you can get to size 4and start building a settler faster. To get the warrior out on the same turn that you get to size 4, every round, change the tile allocation between the plains spice forest and a grassland forest and try to get both columns (food growth to size 4 and hammers build to warriors) complete on the same round. We should, with some careful micro-management, be able to get both growth to size four and the warrior completed within 5 turns.

You may need to leave the warrior at home to garrison Moscow and prevent rioting... i suspect this is the case, but i am not 100% sure.

Once the chop goes into the settlers, dont forget to check every turn (or as appropriate) to see if you can whip the settlers to completion. the moment that arrow lights up- hit the whip and let 'em bleed.

Once you whip, go back to working high food tiles (clams and floodplains (floodplains cottage maybe?)) to get the size back.

What should Moscow build while it gets back to size 4 (or 5?)? Workboat? Warrior?

K, thats my analysis. If i am repeating stuff you already know, then just ignore me. If you know a faster way, then speak up and lets do it that way.

ok, i managed to build warrior in 5 turns and grow to size 4 on the same turn. :)
the forrest NE of moscow has be pre-chopped as requested.

btw, we are not very powerfull
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/80711/Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG

i sent the second warrior fog-busting since moscow is not going to grow above 4 for a while yet. I suggest we build another warrior after the settler

the is the final turn:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/80711/Civ4ScreenShot0003.JPG

Nice turns Pavelthesecond. If i understand correctly, you grew to size 4/built a warrior in your fifth turn, then built the settler for five turns, then whipped on turn 10?

Its perfect by the way- well done.

Roster:
Immaculate (Up now)
marowaker
Prominence
g_storrow
pavelthesecond (played)

And when things get fixed this guy gets to play the next turn-set:
mightygooga (laptop doesn't work yet)

I can play tomorrow evening.

Uhh..... g_storrow hasn't posted his turnset yet:( .Well he has a little bit but not the full details. pavelthesecond, you should have waited.:( . It doesn't mater too much since Immaculate posted some tips. Everyone, just make sure you never do that again.:goodjob:

Either way, we have a good round. Immac can found our 2nd city for us. Maybe you should rename it, we can have a fun time since it doesn't matter. Each new city should have a fun nickname. Maybe Moscow should be renamed as well.

Sorry I forgot to take screenshots and the like. As all i did was change tech and put a worker to chop a forest.

I am glad pavel changed what I was doing I never thought about leaving the chopping until worker /settler builds.

I will play my turns slower and with more care and screenies next time.

I think we shoudl name warriros so we know who we are referring to.
If we are going to use whipping so much a workboat for the 2nd city woudl be quite handy. I think we might struggle for th GL if we build Wb then granry and other stuff.

.... which of course suggests that perhaps we should be building the workboat in Moscow for use by St. Pete's....

...i'm breaking out he world builder before i start my turns and i will post what i learn and we can discuss that... then we can make a plan...

:sheep:

World Builder Test

I tried to make it as realistic as possible
I timed the research to be 5 turns away from sailing (but at 154 beakers out of 223, not 159- couldn’t get it that exact).
I gave Moscow a settler and 10hammers towards a warrior.
I gave us two warriors, located in identical positions to the warriors present in the last save.
I pre-chopped the forest north of the flood plains and started a cottage on the floodplains themselves.

So I played things out a few different ways:
EDIT #5 (i almagamated what i wrote earlier):

One thing i noticed really sped up the time to get the great lighthouse wasn't whipping St. Pete (i was wrong about that) which means we don't need a granary there. The biggest difference in gettting it up quick was whether or not we got a second worker up to develop the tiles around it.

So, in that spirit, after numerous tests, i suggest that Moscow start immediately on another worker. Our present worker should continue to work on the cottage it is currently involved in. Once that is done, it moves to the northern forest and chops the pre-cut forest there. Once that is done, it moves to St. Petes and starts chopping the forest on a hill to help get out a work boat first. The chop will complete the work boat and carry over a tiny bit into the regular lighthouse. After that, just grow with the clam's food and build with mines and quarry hammers.

Its the capital that should whip a granary however. Once the worker is done, it should switch to a granary, and as soon as it is possible (i think once one round of hammers are invested because we are expanionist according to my observations), whip it right away, then grow back to size four while building two warriors, then work another settler (and whip that too).

Anyway, thats my plan. I will wait about 2 hours then play my turns.

Speak up if you think this is a bad plan before i start implementing it.

Uhh..... g_storrow hasn't posted his turnset yet:( .Well he has a little bit but not the full details. pavelthesecond, you should have waited.:( . It doesn't mater too much since Immaculate posted some tips. Everyone, just make sure you never do that again.:goodjob:

Either way, we have a good round. Immac can found our 2nd city for us. Maybe you should rename it, we can have a fun time since it doesn't matter. Each new city should have a fun nickname. Maybe Moscow should be renamed as well.


I am starting to agree with Marowaker.

Actually, i was looking at the save, and i realized something that sort of was bad planning. You chopped the forest two east, and one north of Moscow. I think this was a bad move. You should have chopped the forest to the north of moscow. There is no changing it now, but here are my reasons:
1) Chopping that forest now prevents us from chopping it latter to speed the great lighthouse in St. Pete.
2) Chopping that forest now prevents us from using a two food, one hammer tile when St. Pete is originally founded, thereby curbing the speed at which we get a workboat out.
3) If we were going to leave some forests around, this would be a great one to leave around because it would contribute health towards both Moscow and St. Pete.
4) We wanted St. Pete to be a production city, and by chopping that forest, you effectively removed a source of 1 hammer (2 hammers after replaceable parts, 3 hammers after railroad). So i guess its now going to be cottaged for Moscow or workshopped for St. Pete (which is subpar)
5) Chop forests on rivers first, they can always be repaced with water-mills which are better, and by chopping them you get to work the commerce tile that you don't get when you work a forest thats on a river.

The decision is made now and its too late to change it, but we have to make our decisions carefully. Otherwise, it was a great turn however so don't feel bad or anything.

EDIT: sorry to triple post- i know its bad form. I had just noticed that decision now however when i was comparing the world builder to the actual save. It took me a bit to realize what difference i was looking at.

So, i went ahead and played.

Here is your Session Turn Log from 2230 BC to 1900 BC:
Turn 62, 2140 BC: St. Petersburg has been founded.
Turn 63, 2110 BC: You have discovered Sailing!
Turn 64, 2080 BC: Buddhism has spread in Moscow.

Score: we are at the bottom of the pile. :blush: I hope this reflects only the fact that we have no military and our cities are both size one now. Hopefully this will pick up again as we continue.

Here's my analysis:

We finished the settler and i set a course for a worker (as outlined in the post two positions above this one). The current worker continued to build a cottage. Once it was done, Moscow began to use it to start growing it.

I founded St. Petersburg (2140BC). Please note that we are working the clams instead of a forested plain (for +2 commerce, -1 hammers), but thats okay 'cause we will be using workboat clams soon enough once we get a chop in. In the meantime i wanted to grow.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/SGOTM3_2_-01.JPG

We then got sailing. I started towards masonry.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/SGOTM3_2_-02.JPG

Then Buddhism spread to our lands which means that the founder of Buddhism, Ghandi, can see our capital, so he opened trade with us. I was asked if i wanted to convert and for now i refused. It may be best to wait for Ghandi to ask us to convert in which case we would get a +1 diplomatic modifier for converting when asked. Its also worth noting that we don't need the happiness from religion yet, but that if we do, it is available.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/SGOTM3_2_-03.JPG

Once the cottage was complete, i moved the worker one north to the river grassland forest tile and completed the chop there- thereby finishing the worker currently in production.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/SGOTM3_2_-05.JPG

Once the worker was completed i worked on a granary for one turn, then whipped it to completion. In my opinion, there is zero reason not to do this in most cities (maybe not the great lighthouse city obviously), because we will grow back that lost population twice as fast and it costs so very little. Better to do it early then later. Now that the granary is whipped, we should try to grow to size 4 before producing more settlers. In the meantime, either build warriors, or build a workboat. In my play-testing its possible to build two warriors and time growth to size four at the same time. The first warrrior should stay in Moscow to act as military police (the people are gonna be a little unhappy about being whipped- hehe)

Here's a look at the empire at the end of my turn-set:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/SGOTM3_2_-06.JPG

Both workers are heading up to the forested hill north-west of St. Petersburg. They are going to chop that forest (hopefully, unless someone stops them), to help in the production of the workboat. When they are done, they should go directly to the stone and build a quary, then back on the hill to build a mine, then to the other forested grassland hill to build another mine. Its possible to work that square because Moscow's culture will soon grow (especially now that it has Buddhism), which means that tile will become accessible to St. Petersburg.

Here's the culture shot of Moscow:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/SGOTM3_2_-07.JPG


K, so thats my turn. I uploaded the save; we are in last points for score now :(. I think this is okay though. We will recover. Its partially because we whipped (twice) and its partially because we focused on getting another city out. Workers don't contribute directly to score, but once they start improving our terrain, they will contribute quite a bit.

EDIT: oh yeah, and i renamed the warriors igor and boris, and i named the workers sasha and dasha, but i couldn't think of a clever name for our cities. sorry.

Interesting plans, I will follow your ideas for worker improvment at St. Pete's. I will also rename Moscow since we need to have a bit of fun:) . My 1 question is dd you see where the unit of ghandi's was? It would be nice to find out where he lives so we can take action appropitly:sniper: .

I will do my turnset soon.

Immaculate (Just Played)
marowaker (Up now)
Prominence
Mightygooga
g_storrow
pavelthesecond

Interesting plans, I will follow your ideas for worker improvment at St. Pete's. I will also rename Moscow since we need to have a bit of fun:) . My 1 question is dd you see where the unit of ghandi's was? It would be nice to find out where he lives so we can take action appropitly:sniper: .

I will do my turnset soon.


When his religion spread to us he was able to see into our city; thats how he made contact. No units were involved.

Interesting plans, I will follow your ideas for worker improvment at St. Pete's. I will also rename Moscow since we need to have a bit of fun:) . My 1 question is dd you see where the unit of ghandi's was? It would be nice to find out where he lives so we can take action appropitly:sniper: .

I will do my turnset soon.

Immaculate (Just Played)
marowaker (Up now)
Prominence
Mightygooga
g_storrow
pavelthesecond

Isnt there a few people who can't play in front of me?

Guys,

I thought I saw a Barbarian Warrior in the western edge of our Island. Are you guys seeing that? Right by the bronze. My biggest fear is a barbarian city poping up somewhere there. Our plans for the island can make it into a big war factory, but a barbarian city WILL slow us down.

Marowaker can you get on of our warriors there just to see this threat gone? We sure will be able to defend ourselfs if the barb atack us in a jungle our hill title.

Isnt there a few people who can't play in front of me?

Well yeah. Mikeyredk can't play at all so I removed him from the list and Mightygooga's laptop isn't working so he can't play either (momentarily). Everyone else can play.

I thought I saw a Barbarian Warrior in the western edge of our Island. Are you guys seeing that? Right by the bronze. My biggest fear is a barbarian city poping up somewhere there. Our plans for the island can make it into a big war factory, but a barbarian city WILL slow us down.

You are right, i would send one down, except that it will probably take longer than the settler going the long way and we don't have any galley's yet. I will build one after our first warrior in Moscow.

OK I am playing now.