Welcome to your C_IV SGOTM 3 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest.

The Game
As Peter The Great, Leader of All the Russias, you are charged with achieving a Diplomatic or Space Victory.

This Monarch difficulty game is on a Standard size, Gyathaar-special, crowded map, at Epic speed, against 17 rivals. All victory conditions are enabled, but the laurels for this contest will be awarded to the teams who achieve the fastest Diplomatic or Space victory.

Version
Your team will play this map in Civilization IV version 1.61, using the standard HoF Mod for Windows version 1.61. This is currently HOF_Mod-1.61.008 (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/mods/HOF-1.61.008.exe), but we shall use the latest version of the mod as at the start date for the game.

Your start file will be available on the SGOTM Progress and Results Page (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php) at midnight, server local time, at the start of December 1st.

Here's the starting position - click the image below to see a larger version.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/civ4games/images/sgotm3_start_small.jpg (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/civ4games/images/sgotm3_start_large.jpg)

Map Parameters
Playable Leader/Civ - Peter of Russia
Rivals - all the other 17 civs in version 1.61
World size - Standard
Difficulty - Monarch
Landform - Archipelago, low sea level, tropical
Game Speed - Epic
AI Aggression - Aggressive
Barbarians - Standard
Permanent Alliances Enabled
No City Razing

Notes

Please visit the Civ4 SGOTM reference thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=168439) to check out the rules and procedures to ensure that you are adequately prepared for this game.

BOTH Civilization IV v1.61 and Warlords v.2.08 are supported for this SGOTM. No other versions can be used, and you will have to stick with your chosen version throughout the game.

Teams will compete for four awards for each version of the game - the Gold, Silver and Bronze Laurels for the fastest finishes, and the Wooden Spoons for the lowest scoring finisher.

All teams must play the sponsored variant - awards will be given to teams who achieve Diplomatic or Space victories in the least turns.

All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.


Remember, Rule Number 11: Have Fun. :)

First post :p Wazzup peeps, signing in :goodjob:

Singing in :goodjob: Let the succesion game commence ;)

Hmmmm..... Space or Diplomatic, I don't know. Diplomatic may be tough with 17 Aggresive AI civs but with 17 civs, Space won't be easy either. I guess that we can take out a few civs but i don't know at the moment.

Starting Postition. Interesting with 2 spices and 2 clam. I would like to see what is in the fog though before deciding.

Though right now i need to know you all, who else is in this team?

Please make sure you let me know asap if you want a new team name.

It may also be a good idea for someone to PM the other team members to let them know you are here. Newbies to SGOTMs don't always notice.

Start position is nice except kinda lacking in shield department. 2 floodplains, 2 clams, 2 spices, plenty of forests, this could work. I don't see anything more interesting around to move the settler except that we'll lose floodplains. Scout to the east first then north?
I agree, diplo will be hard since the AI will start out annoyed at us. we should go bash a couple of civs first to have some nice territory then go for space.

A new name, that would be nice, but we need a vote with everyone on this team to be here. g_storrow, mikeyredk, pavelthesecond and St John still need to check in. We should PM them to let them know we have began the pre-game discussion.
We probably should go for space, get philosophical going for a golden age during the space race, and we WIN!
.
.
.
OK not yet

If you are going to change your name you are probably already too late, as there are still only two of you here. The name has to be branded into your starting save before we open the game in a couple of days time.

Hello,

Immaculate checking in!

I play-tested a 17-civilization archipelago map the other night (got to about 500AD or so- approximately) and I have some thoughts.

In regards to the opinions relating to diplomacy, first of all, the AI doesn’t necessarily have to start off angry with you.
If you already have alphabet when you meet a civilization, on the first round of meeting them, you can gift them a tech and they immediately get a +4 bonus to their diplomacy for ‘fair trades’. This will wear off if you don’t keep trading (not gifting) with them, but if you keep trading (aka- they aren’t the Japanese), then the bonus will only get bigger. This is because, in the first round that you meet a civilization, any diplomatic modifiers are multiplied. So its good to open borders and trade in the first round you meet them.
This is a great way to ensure that a civilization (even one of an opposing religion) doesn’t think you are their worse enemy. The problem with this technique is that you can very easily accumulate ‘you traded with our worse enemy’ modifiers without realizing it.
I don’t know the specifics about this, but that’s the essentials. I suggest that you try a game with these conditions (17 civilizations, archipelago) so you can experience it for yourself before you jump into the game.
Its worth bee-lining to fishing/sailing then to writing and alphabet to do this. So our starting techs should be minimal worker techs, then sailing, then straight to alphabet (writing for open borders and more exploration and alphabet to trade with the other civilizations).
One of the things I would be very interested in learning is if you have to trade with them the first time the trade-screen comes up (when they introduce themselves) of if you can do it later but within the same round (thereby giving you time to examine the inter-civ relationships before you commit to trading with someone).

Secondly, with 17 civilizations, trading is key, it pays to explore early (as i mentioned) and it pays to get alphabet early (not only to gift techs for diplomatic reasons, but also to trade for them).
Its very important to get an exploring boat out very early.

Thirdly, the great lighthouse is great. So is the collosus. But something better then both of those is 3-5 more cities then most other civilizations. In my test game i made two cities right away (one for GPP for a great scientist, one to build exploring boats, and later a small army), and built the great lighthouse, forge, collosus, library and great library, but i was unable to mount an offensive war until after the BC->AD switch and that cost me. I think the great lighthouse is important (think of its as an extra organized or financial trait, especially in combination with our cheap harbours- expansive remember?), but so is expansion and with 17 civilizaitons, that means war.

In the test game i ran, the one religion with an early shrine VERY quickly became the dominant religion and soon 75% of the world was confucian (Saladin's doing).

Anyway, so i suggest that people have a quick test-game to check out the conditions. its better to be prepared then not prepared right?

And lastly, what name?
Should we make a play on the vanilla thing?
Vanilla bean?
Lucious Vanilla Ice Cream?
These are stupid but maybe people will get talking about a name before we loose the opportunity to change it.

I.

These are stupid but maybe people will get talking about a name before we loose the opportunity to change it.

I think it may already be to late to change the name since we need to do it before 1st december and 4 people still need to check in. New Vanilla seems like some sort of surfing or icecream name so i am fine with it.

Your starting techs are a interesting choice, I will do a test game soon with your theories. I have had some bad experiences with diplomatic in the past. We could still go for backdoor domination though.

I was thinking of taking out 1 or 2 people before cossacks then go crazy and take out 5-7 while making sure we don't get domination by having too much land.

Alright lets change this name… Lets be the Cids Pilots after Cid from FF7

The Flying Vanillas

Alright lets change this name… Lets be the Cids Pilots after Cid from FF7

The Flying Vanillas

sure- sounds good. i don't get the reference, but the name sounds good.

Alright lets change this name… Lets be the Cids Pilots after Cid from FF7

The Flying Vanillas

no objections here. My creative side got hit by a big bus called school. So he won't be back in a while :crazyeye:

Please settle on a new name very soon. We have to freeze it into the saves and the database before the game starts.

It would also be helpful if you can work who's going to be team leader.

The Flying Vanilla's is fine by me.:crazyeye:

Team Leader? well i would say me but i have no experience in archepeligo maps with 17 civs. If no-one else wants to though, i will be it.

St John, pavelthesecond and g_storrow still need to check in.

The Flying Vanilla's is fine by me.:crazyeye:

Team Leader? well i would say me but i have no experience in archepeligo maps with 17 civs. If no-one else wants to though, i will be it.

St John, pavelthesecond and g_storrow still need to check in.

Sure marowaker. Thats fine with me. I suspect its mostly a job that entails cracking the whip :whipped: after late players and interfacing with Alan and his team.

So AlanH, can you make us the "Flying Vanilla"?

:sheep: <----cute

I looked for, and failed to find, the reference. Is that:

- The Flying Vanilla (singular), or
- Flying Vanilla (singular indefinite), or
- The Flying Vanillas (plural), or
- The Flying Vanilla's (possessive) ... or even
- Flying Vanilla's (an abbreviation for 'Flying Vanilla is' )?

Sorry to be picky, but we do have to live with your choice for the next three months or so, and then it lives forever in the SGOTM archives :p

Sure marowaker. Thats fine with me. I suspect its mostly a job that entails cracking the whip :whipped: after late players and interfacing with Alan and his team.

I am fine with the job then, anyone have any objections?

I looked for, and failed to find, the reference. Is that:

- The Flying Vanilla (singular), or
- Flying Vanilla (singular indefinite), or
- The Flying Vanillas (plural), or
- The Flying Vanilla's (possessive) ... or even
- Flying Vanilla's (an abbreviation for 'Flying Vanilla is' )?

Sorry to be picky, but we do have to live with your choice for the next three months or so, and then it lives forever in the SGOTM archives :p

Let's just call it what mikeyredk called it, the 3rd one

Still waiting on those 3 people to check in

Hello Guys!

Alan told me you guys were short in one player, so I´m wondering if i can join the team? The last four games I´ve played was Archipelago, with the Vikings, i think we´ll do just fine with the Soviets.

So if you take me, Im cheking in.

Ah... Flying Vanillas ... Nice ONE

I Also think the starting position is fine. We may find a good spot for another city in the same little island. I think Imaculate is right about our tech aiming. Sailings will be very important, plus trading with other civs will require meeting them. Im not sure about the gifting tecs early on. We could easily be gifting a CIV that wont become a powerfull ally.

A couple of questions:
1 - We will be playing on civ 4 patched right? Not warlords?
2 - Can anyone post a link to a reference file (Tech tree, Civ traits and stuff). I lost my last one.

Hello Guys!

Alan told me you guys were short in one player, so I´m wondering if i can join the team? The last four games I´ve played was Archipelago, with the Vikings, i think we´ll do just fine with the Soviets.

So if you take me, Im cheking in.

Ah... Flying Vanillas ... Nice ONE

Ummm... just so you know, this is Vanilla (hence the name), so no vikings here. Just the standard 17.

Edit:

A couple of questions:
1 - We will be playing on civ 4 patched right? Not warlords?
2 - Can anyone post a link to a reference file (Tech tree, Civ traits and stuff). I lost my last one.


1) Oops- yeah, i guess you already knew. Hehe
2) I think you can find them from the main page. Don't know exactly where.



Also: I was thinking about Diplomacy.
We can safely assume (i believe) that by the time anyone builds the United Nations, most civilizations will be in Free Religion. And most will be in the democracy-type civics (free speech, emancipation, free religion, all those good ones). We may want to make our early selection procedure (if we do diplomacy) based on who has what favorite civics late in the game. If a civ's favorite civic is 'free religion' or 'emancipation', then it might work to our advantage to ally for later voting. By the time the voting comes along, we'll be in their favorite civic and we'll get that little bit extra that we might need to get them to vote for us.

Gustavoghe- give gifting tech early a try (if you have the time and patience). Just giving them something like meditation or polytheism or animal husbandry/wifery :sheep: immediately gives you a +4 to your relations and thats HUGE, especially early in the game- it can easily overcome most religious differences (not Izzy of course) and might even get Toku to open his borders. And giving them an early tech like that prior to most developing alphabet is a pretty small price to pay. But absolutely, we must be careful as to who we gift to and who we freeze out.

I.

I Also think the starting position is fine.

I guess we just need to figure out where to move the scout so we can see more of the map and make a truly informed decision before we actually settle, but yeah, it looks good.

Though:

If we settle in place, and start building a workboat right away how many turns it will take? I gues since we´ll be aiming for growth as well, in the first 20 turns a boat will cost us about 15 turns. I think that is a resonable target, dont you guys? Especialy if growth is our ultimate goal.

There is one thing we have to define right away to focus our game plan discussion. That is, what will we be aiming for? Imaculate, am I wrong or you are inclined for a diplomacy victory? I never won diplomaticly (Does that word exists ? Sorry Brazilian)Where are the other guys?

Though:

If we settle in place, and start building a workboat right away how many turns it will take? I gues since we´ll be aiming for growth as well, in the first 20 turns a boat will cost us about 15 turns. I think that is a resonable target, dont you guys? Especialy if growth is our ultimate goal.

There is one thing we have to define right away to focus our game plan discussion. That is, what will we be aiming for? Imaculate, am I wrong or you are inclined for a diplomacy victory? I never won diplomaticly (Does that word exists ? Sorry Brazilian)Where are the other guys?


1) Russia doesn't start with fishing.

2) I agree with you that the two options are completely different games. With this many civs, there are sure to be MANY enemy cities with TONS of archers/defensive units stacked in them in the mid and late games (because expansion will be difficult and they'll just build a bunch up). that will make taking the required resources for a spaceship launch difficult. BUT, i think it would be a more enjoyable game (i like to war).


It would be great if people ran a game with similar set-ups to this one so you (plural) get a feeling for how this will play out. Maybe not right away, but before you play your first turn anyway maybe.

@Brazillians: don't apologize. The rest of the world is thankful to you for your Women's Beach Volleyball teams. :groucho: we can put up with a few made-up (or is it real?) words. My portuguese isn't that great either. ;)

Settling in place is usually not a good idea… but this can work if we can chop those forests to the north to get rid of defensive bonuses for attackers farm the right tile. For a work boat it will take us 15 turns to build but as mentioned earlier we don't have fishing so that has to wait. Also move scout to that eastern hill for a better vantage point

signing in. On holiday in NY for the week and my rented apartment internet keeps going down. Can you put me near the end fof the roster please

So what would our first tech be? with the amount of forests we have, I think bronze working might be a good idea, chop chop chop to expand. I'd settle in place and work the floodplains tile and start on worker. If I'm not mistaken, BW and worker should finish at about the same time?we don't have to worry about barbs that much coz we are at the corner of a penisula there are acouple of coke points we could just use and we'll be fine.

signing in. On holiday in NY for the week and my rented apartment internet keeps going down. Can you put me near the end fof the roster please

Sure. I have a real life as well. I know what you mean.

St John and pavelthesecond still need to check in, but i think we have enough people(6) so the roster at the moment looks like:

marowaker
Immaculate
Prominence
mikeyredk
gustavogue
g_storrow[away for week]

If you have any objections or preferences, well say them:)

I think that we should go for warring in the 1st part of the game until cossacks get obsolete, then go for a space ship launch.

First moves, move the scout 1 NE, save report back, then move the settler on what we find. After that Research Sailing, military techs[not iron working], then Alphabet. Then declare war on person close if not an ally, then do the same on everyone else. I think we should defeat at least 3 civilizations first.

Scout: I think you are better off going directly east then north, then just north-east. This way you will get to see the tile directly east of the starting settler (i believe).

Techs: I don't think we should put off fishing. As much as i like to chop/whip, we need growth. I suggest we research fishing right out the gate (then go to bronze working). To make optimal use of this strategy, i think we could build a warrior while researching fishing (and growing) and then switch to bronze working and a fishing boat. The fishing boats will allow to make effecient use of the slavery civic and should let us get out an exploratory force/settlers quicker because more food=more hammers.
It may be worth doing some math on this... (anyone into that?)

In terms of short term goals... i think we should try to accomplish three things:
1) get an exploratory force out (either galley or fishing boat) and start making contacts
2) get three cities up and going.
a) one city builds a lighthouse and the greatlighthouse
b) one city builds a library and runs two scientist ASAP for a great scientist, then immediately, a second one.
c) one city builds a the troops we need to protect ourselves and maybe some workers, etc.
3) get the great lighthouse. On this map, with these settings, and with this leader, there is no better wonder then the great lighthouse. Reasons:
a) Peter is philosophical which means we will probably try to run a specialist/hybrid economy (maybe not in the capital- it looks perfect high-density cottage spam/academy. Which means that you need a certain amount of commerce just to keep afloat and pay the bills. The great lighthouse will provide that.
b) With this many other civs, foreign trade routes with other, large cities, will be fairly easy to get (unless we piss off our neighbors and can't get trade routes open- another reason to do an early gift approach). That means that early trade routes will be worth ~3commerce/turn. With the great lighthouse, that becomes 9commerce/turn. The difference is akin to having a mature cottage right off the bat in every city.
c) we are also expansionist. that means cheap harbors (one pop whip harbors?). Without the great lighthouse, these equal about 1-2 commerce/turn (more after currency). With the great lighthouse, double or even 2.5x that value. We can leverage the expansionist trait that much more with the great lighthouse.
d) Think of the great lighthouse as the organized trait and harbours (when combined wiht the great lighthouse) as extra courthouses. We can expand that much more early (by war if we want to) on if we want to and it becomes available immediately, because once we have the great lighthouse, extra trade routes become available as soon as city is founded. The great lighthouse will allow us to keep warring and taking cities without sinking our economy, if thats what we want to do.
4) Establish early GPP factory.
This GPP generation doesn't have to be longterm. It can be one fish, a fishing boat, and a library and thats enough to run some scientists. I propose really leveraging our philosophical trait very early. Our second or third (preferably second) city should be focused on this (not our capital which has enough wood to chop the great library then become a cottage/commerce facility). With the great scientist, use the first to get philosophy, Taoism and allow a switch to pacifism. This will increase our GPP production even further and allow another scientist right away (we should try to develop a formal and long-term GPP spot soon after this). Philosophy is an nice expensive tech, great for trade value, but better for hoarding as a choke-point towards liberalism. The second scientist should build an academy in the capital (or other cottage/commerce specialized city if we don't cottage spam the capital).

With our set-up, i don't think it pays to chase the oracle. The only other wonder i think would be worthwhile is the pyramids but those are expensive and definately secondary to the great lighthouse in my opinion.

Then, once we have three cities, are on our way to the great lighthouse and have established an early (albeit probably temporary) GPP farm, we build an army and conquer some cities (catapults and swordsmen maybe- or maybe just swordsmen if we are a bit lucky).

These are just some ideas. I am open to alternatives.

That idea actually seems like a better one overall Immaculate.Great job:goodjob: The only thing i am conserned with is when are we going to go for military and wipe out a few people. I see no problems though. We can start the game tomorrow, and i just realised that i can't start the roster due to something called real life. Immaculate, you seem to have a strategy going, i will put you on first if you don't mind.

Immaculate
marowaker
Prominence
mikeyredk
gustavogue
g_storrow

I think that we should go for warring in the 1st part of the game until cossacks get obsolete, then go for a space ship launch.

I guess we will be aiming for SPACE then. I would vote for that(Swords Clashing noise, and the crowd goes "WAR WAR WAR!")


First moves, move the scout 1 NE, save report back, then move the settler on what we find. After that Research Sailing, military techs[not iron working], then Alphabet. Then declare war on person close if not an ally, then do the same on everyone else. I think we should defeat at least 3 civilizations first.

Agreed with first move. But im still thinking in the first build. I dont think we should spend GROWING TURNS and building a worker right away. Better get a barraks started, and then save it for a more adequate moment later on. If our first tech will be sailing, we should start the working boat right after discovery, thus, queuing the barraks.

Cossaks, will need horses so we got to have in mind the probability of not having any around. Even on islands close by.

repeat post couldnt see my previous post,

Agreed with first move. But im still thinking in the first build. I dont think we should spend GROWING TURNS and building a worker right away. Better get a barraks started, and then save it for a more adequate moment later on. If our first tech will be sailing, we should start the working boat right after discovery, thus, queuing the barraks.




Substitute warrior for barracks and i agree with you. Reason: we will need miltiary police or our growth will be curtailed.

Okay: so short term plan will be
work the highest food/commerce tiles
while building warrior
while researching fishing

once fishing is done, focus on hammers (or hammer/commerce if available)
and build workboat
and start researching bronze working?

-i'll stop once i move the scout to ask people's opinion on settling
-i'll stop once we get a workboat if that happens before my turns are up

If anything else of interest happens, i'll stop and ask people's opinions also.

Guys!

Sorry about the newbie question. How many turns each of us will have?

Usually the team-leader decides that, but if you have a quick read through (or skim) of some of the SGOTM2 threads, the teams that did well are the ones who took their time, stopped to discuss important decisions and stopped at major decision-making points as opposed to at a set time/turn. Its marowaker's (and everyone else's too) call though.

I thought its something strict, like each will play 10 turns. So i guess i'll have to wait a loooooooonnnnnngggg time to play.. shocks..

Other topics. Following Imaculate ideas, about the 3 cities going. I think our first city will be the GP farm then? Did i get it wrong? After some turns, maybe we could find another goos spot for it?

I thought its something strict, like each will play 10 turns. So i guess i'll have to wait a loooooooonnnnnngggg time to play.. shocks..

Other topics. Following Imaculate ideas, about the 3 cities going. I think our first city will be the GP farm then? Did i get it wrong? After some turns, maybe we could find another goos spot for it?

I was thinking making our capital our wonder building city in the short term (for lighthouse and great lighthouse) then switching it to commerce with a bunch of cottages. It could be the great person spot too (but if we find another high-food spot- thats probably better). Lets get into the game a bit to decide that though- based on the lay of the land, etc.

Looks like the saves are available.

i have to go home for lunch anyway, so i will try to open it up (at that time) and move the settler and post a picture
this is assuming that loading the new version of HOF doesn't take too long or that nothing comes up (:sheep:).

Immac.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG

Scout has one movement left. Where to with scout's second move? Still want to move into northern jungle? I think we should move onto one of the hills. Hills give more visibility radius. I think we should go on the hill to our northwest to see what we can see from there.
What do you want me to do?

The good news is that if we build our capital on the spot, we can build a second city to the north-east, on the hills directly northeast of the scout's present position (yummy plains hill central location gives +1 hammer and the fish adn clam give LOTS of food) and use that for our GPP (or production if we get more hills/forests).

Nice spot.

Scout: Yeah, i think you should get to the hills, that will be nice and we will be able to figure out a second city spot. Can you post another picture?

I think building the COLOSSUS and the light House in the first city will be tricky since we dont have a good amount of hammers. If you trust we can don that with out a problem, ill go with your decision. Trying to buid a second city for wonder productions would be to hard also. We would need at least 20 to 25 turns to get a settler. But the hills up north are promessing.

I dont think we gonna be able to get (into city radious) all 4 ocean resources that apear on the map. If we try to do that we will overlap a lot of land titles, that is not a good thing. Unless we build in the hills northeast from the scout. I dont think we want to loose the possibility of mining that.

So maybe: We should settle in place, thus getting the 2 clams, and try to see a little more up north. If there is more land we can build our city about 3 tittles north.

Remeber imacculate speaking of a third city, a army building city? Since we dont have a lot fo hammers around we will be needing that exploratory party right away. So i guess the production line we discussed earlier still holds, aiming for that work boat.

Moving the scout revealed:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG

Proposed city sites:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/planning_our_first_city.JPG

It would be nice to know whats under that fog tile (with the green dot), as well as whats in the fog to the east (though, for our decision making purposes we have to assume its just plain ugly 1 commerce ocean.

The scout is finished moving. The settler can either explore the alternate (green) city site, or can build immediately (or do something else).

I will wait for people to express their opinions on potential founding sites before i finish the year 4000BC.


PS: @gustavoghe:

I think building the COLOSSUS and the light House in the first city will be tricky since we dont have a good amount of hammers.
Do you think we should try to build the colossus? Its either the coloossus or an early war. We can't really have both. I would lean towards trying to capture the collosus over building it, but thats just my opinion.

Build where you stand

Build where you stand !!!

Questions:

How do you get that screenshot? How do you make the fatcrosses?

Sorry: Newbie.

hey, sorry about the late reply.
i was overwelmed with university work for the last 2 weeks.

just spent 30min reading the whole thread. I would prefer to go for a space race, my experience with diplo being limited.

i agree with gustavoghe: build where you stand.

to take a screenshot press 'print screen' on your keyboard. It is sometimes abriviated to 'PrtSc' or something like this.

I also vote for settling in place. not much compelling reason to move the settler anywhere.

also, I agree with building the light house, but about the collssus, I think we should wait and see how things develop. If there are no neighbors within easy reach of us, then I guess we can divert to the collssus. But, that situation seems unlikely given that this is a map with 17 aggressive AI.

Building the light house means we'll need both sailing (light house) and Masonry (great light house). Should we go for them before or after the initial worker techs? I think it's safe to go for sailing after bronzeworking. I don't see any resources that require special worker techs that we won't already have by then.

Sorry i have been away for so long. That's why i made Immaculate go first.

Sorry about the newbie question. How many turns each of us will have?

Immaculate is right. We will havea discussion about what to do every 10 turns. Immaculate is first so he can get 15, then i will play 15 to even it out and then 10 from there.

Build where you stand !!!

I agree, the fogged out tile might be a resource and i don't wna to wast a turn.

hey, sorry about the late reply.
i was overwelmed with university work for the last 2 weeks.

That's alright, there is a thing called real life, it always comes before civ iv.

Good job with moving the scout, settle in place.

The roster with pavelthesecond joining is as follows:

Immaculate<going now>
marowaker<on deck>
Prominince
mikeyredk
gustavogue
g_storrow
pavelthesecond

Founding Moscow (4000BC):

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG

Moscow is set to build a worker while working floodplains (3food, 1commerce)

In 3760BC (7turns), Moscow's borders expand and we finish fishing. I switch from a warrior to a fishing boat. To speed up the fishing boat i work the spice plains forest (1 food, 2 hammers, 1 commerce). I set research to bronze working.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/Civ4ScreenShot0003.JPG

Here is what our scout has uncovered. Our island is pretty large after all with many potential settling sites.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/Civ4ScreenShot0004.JPG


I'll play the rest tomorrow. I just came back from a dinner-party and its 2:30am. I need sleep (not a young kid anymore :cry: )
edit: if we are playing 15 a piece, i can do that easily enough. hold on and i will finish up my turn and you can take it. lets not move too quick though, but in 8 more turns we won't be done the fishing boat or bronze working, so simple enough to get there...
edit2: i'm having difficulties with the HOF mod loading correctly. I'll just work on it tomorrow morning.


While i get that sorted out (and sleep), i think we should consider the following options:

1) research 'the wheel' and 'pottery' on our way to writing and alphabet before we research 'sailing' or 'masonry'. This would mean that we would be building settlers and warriors for our own island for a bit before we move off the island and that our exploratory party would probably be a workboat. It would also mean that we could get cottages set up earlier.
Pros? Cons?
2) research sailing before we move towards writing and the alphabet. this would let us build a galley earlier, and let us colonize/explore other islands earlier. it would also let us load our scout onboard a galley and use those as a pair for scouting.
Pros? Cons?



this assumes we want to get to writing through pottery... the other options are priesthood (no point as i see it) or animal handling (only point would be to find horses)- i think roads and cottages are more important- remember- we also get 1/2 price granaries, combine that with good food and slavery and thats LOTS of hammers early in the game

Good job Immaculate. I was right with a resource there.:) .

Lokking at the resources, STONE!!!:) :) ;) :D . YAY, but that doesn't help us much, as the 2 sea wonders don't need stone.

3 spices. that makes calender a priority. There are Gems which could make our research go flying. and there is cows, mooo.

I do have one question though, when you(or I) finish that workboat, are we going to use it as an exploration tool or do we use it for a clam?

First the bad news. My laptop went caput! I dont knowwat happend, i turned it on today when i got home from work and it loaded all right, but then i stepd out for dinner and the laptop went into hibernation, when i got back it was crashed. I got a blues screen about a boot something... No worries. I will get it fixed ASAP I hope its not a hardware problem. I need my computer. I spent the last weeks desigining and reading about XML to star moding and creating a scenario for south america. Got everything on paper and stuff. And now i dont have my cpu. I will get it FIXED!! I promisse. At leat before my turns. Sorry I know its not your problem, but im just so sad...

Good news. WOW WHAT AN ISLAND ! Im thinking we maybe able to set up 4 cities on this piece of land. Becouse of all that land, i think primary working techs will be necessary. But I still think the goal should be the workboats. With our first city producing a lot of food we wont have to worry about settleling the island. So i gues we should inly star building the lighthouse after we finish at least one work boat.

The second city should be place in a way that ig get almost every hill available. And then we should go for those gems and cows up north. Science City!!We can build a good second city and them cram 2 cities up north to get the ocean resources.

Notice: I'll be away tomorrow. I'll try to see whats going on about 5 o clock, Brazilian time. Fell free to get the next moves going on. with out my input.

Remember: Boat then Light house. Those are our guide lines.

Wish me luck with my computer. I have a backup thought... but i do liketoi play in my own.

The save has been succesfully uploaded.

I played 15 turns as requested.

Here is your Session Turn Log from 4000 BC to 3550 BC:

Turn 0, 4000 BC: Moscow has been founded.

Turn 7, 3790 BC: You have discovered Fishing!
Turn 7, 3790 BC: The borders of Moscow have expanded!

Turn 11, 3670 BC: Barbarian's Panther (2.00) vs The Flying Vanillas's Scout (2.70)
Turn 11, 3670 BC: Combat Odds: 21.1%
Turn 11, 3670 BC: (Animal Combat: +20%)
Turn 11, 3670 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 11, 3670 BC: (Class Animal Combat: +100%)
Turn 11, 3670 BC: The Flying Vanillas's Scout is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 11, 3670 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 11, 3670 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 11, 3670 BC: The Flying Vanillas's Scout is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 11, 3670 BC: The Flying Vanillas's Scout is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 11, 3670 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 11, 3670 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 11, 3670 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 11, 3670 BC: The Flying Vanillas's Scout has defeated Barbarian's Panther!

Turn 12, 3640 BC: Buddhism has been founded in a distant land!

Our scout is currently recuperating at the far western end of our island.
Here is our island:


http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/Civ4ScreenShot0005.JPG



My thought on where we should go from here.

Research wise: I think that we should finish bronze-working and start on the wheel, pottery/sailing (not sure on the timing of these two- might be safer to go with sailing first so it is available when we need it), writing, alphabet. I don't think we need sailing until our second city is up and running which gives us some time to research 'the wheel' and maybe even 'pottery'
Production wise: finish the workboat (and work the nearest source of clams). Switch to the warrior (should have some hammers invested already). Work the highest food source tiles (clams, floodplains) while building the warrior but try to time (by MMing tiles) the production of the warrior with growth to size 3 for our city, then switch to a worker. Finish the worker and build a settler.
Settler goes to the spot with the plains hills to the north-east of our capital (one of the only spots not completely sourrounded by jungle) and starts on a workboat, then a library (or library then workboat if we want to work the fish instead of the clams which has more food).
Capital finished the settler and starts on a galley. Load scout on gally and go exploring. Finish galley and chop a settler, then lighthouse and great lighthouse (trade for masonry). Chop our forests to get the great lighthouse (and settlers).
Once second city builds a library, and has food from the seafood nearby, get it to size 3 (its probably been whipped for workboats/library) and run two scientist specialists.

So first thing: research 'the wheel' after bronze working and finish a warrior after the workboat (preferably time the warrior to finish as we research size 3).

Anyway, thats just one possible route we could take. Others might have a different take on it.

research: bronze -> wheel -> pottery -> sailing ->writing ->alphabet
switch sailing and pottery around if we can't get both in time Moscow finishes settler.
production plans look good.

I was thinking about bronze-working and cutting trees.
The only hammers/turn we have in our capital right now are the forests.
If we chop them we lose our hammers/turn.
I don't think we should chop any forests until we start building the great lighthouse. I also think that we can hover around size five or so (i could be wrong) while building the lighthouse which means we will work all four grasslands forest, and the plains, spice forest. Once we cut one of the plains forest (the ones along the river first hopefully) (during production of the great lighthouse), we will need to switch our citizens to the plains north of north-east of the capital. To make that worthwhile, we should build a cottage there if possible.

The other alternative is to commit our second city to the great lighthouse since it may have much greater production also has trees to cut. This would also let us chop forests near our capital to get our settlers out quicker. The more i look at the potential production of our capital, the more i worry.

Is anyone comfortable doing the world-builder thing to recreate what we can see of the map? We could try different ways of getting to three cities, a scouting party (by boat) and the great lighthouse. Maybe we are better off building the greatlighthouse in a second city with hills? I don't know.:confused:

FYI: gustavoghe has changed his nick to MightyGooga. I have changed his name in your team roster on the database as well.

Good work on that round, our island is big enough to have at least 5 or 6 cities on it. I will take your advice, because it sounds alright but i don't see the save aywhere. I doesn't matter since i am not on the computer i play civ on.
The only time we should chop forests are when we go for a wonder like the great lighthouse that is a big deal for us. Maybe that city with hills could be where our 2nd city goes and where the great lighthouse goes.

Good work on that round, our island is big enough to have at least 5 or 6 cities on it. I will take your advice, because it sounds alright but i don't see the save aywhere. I doesn't matter since i am not on the computer i play civ on.
The only time we should chop forests are when we go for a wonder like the great lighthouse that is a big deal for us. Maybe that city with hills could be where our 2nd city goes and where the great lighthouse goes.

thats what i was thinking too.
The save can be downloaded from the results page (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php)
The link for uploading the saved file is there too.
Explanations for how this all works were written in the maintenance thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=193978).

thats what i was thinking too.
The save can be downloaded from the results page (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php)
The link for uploading the saved file is there too.
Explanations for how this all works were written in the maintenance thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=193978).

Ah must have missed that.

I will do my turnset tommorrow, when i have the time.

OK i have done my turnset. Some interesting things happened this time round, mainly in the late part but anyway:

Turn 0-Inherited turn: Nothin to do but press enter.

Turn 2-Played around with Moscow's tiles so that it would grow size 3 when
we finish the warrior. Didn't work out well.

Turn 10-Out workboat finished and i put it on one of our clams. Our warrior would now be complete 1 turn after the city grows.

Turn 12- Met this brute:
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1136/civ4screenshot0001yj7.jpg

Our first target has shown up!:clap: And this guy is a person who i like to kill.:dance: :sniper:

Where did he appear?
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/4117/civ4screenshot0002ji2.jpg

Yes he lives on that island.

Turn 13-Discover bronze working and switch to slavery.

Do we have copper?
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/2217/civ4screenshot0005oo9.jpg

YES! we have copper.:goodjob: :thumbsup: It's on the other side of the island though. Looks like our 3rd city has to go there.

Turn 15-Not much, except that we will be attacked by a panther next turn. :rolleyes:
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/5504/civ4screenshot0006lx6.jpg

A screenshot of our island:
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/9144/civ4screenshot0007yk2.jpg

I was just following Immaculate's plan for this round. It seemed pretty good. That means that:
As soon as the wheel is done we go Pottery, Sailing, Animal Husbandry(For Horses), Writing and Alphabet.
We build a worker after the warrior, then a settler, then a galley for our scout to ride on.

Hello !!! It seems you guys have been pretty busy. I like where we are going.

The comment made by Imacullate about our HAMMERS/TURN is very bold. We dont want to loose hammers in time we´re building our fishing boat. So lets just wait to cut those trees for the light house. What we cant do to support our settler production, thus our ILSAND occupation is develop a strong agricultura, and that takes us again to the fishing boats. I noticed we have one already, we need more. And then farm like hell.

Next city: Southwest from those stones. That is a good location. But it overlaps a bit. If we build there we will have our production city. Maybe we can even build the lighthouse over there.

I FINNALY GOT MY NICK CHANGED !!!

Marowaker mentioned going for animal husbandry. I don’t want to be any animal’s husband. We are the Russians but we aren’t Catherine (). If we take time out to get animal husbandry, that’s alright, but we have copper, so horses are not as valuable as they might otherwise be. In my humble opinion (but I can be persuaded) we should skip animal husbandry and trade for it after bee-lining alphabet.

I was thinking of the alternate plan (use second city to build the great lighthouse instead of the capital) and here is how i would implement it. But, just because i write something, doesn't mean we should do it. I would really like to here some other (dissenting) voices.

So here is the (proposed) plan:
Research: the wheel, sailing, pottery (or switch pottery and sailing), writing and alphabet. By the time we get alphabet we should have an exploratory boat out there trying to make contacts and be ready to trade for ‘masonry’. Masonry is important to the (proposed) plan but we don’t need it right away and I think we are better off getting alphabet early to get in on tech trading with up to 16 other civilizations right away.

Production:
Moscow: Finish the worker, then, instead of keeping all our forests and trying to build the lighthouse and great lighthouse, chop the forests (keep the two grassland forests that aren’t on the river), whip the crap out of this city, and try to get settlers (and warriors) out as quick as possible. So, in this (proposed plan) Moscow’s function would be to get settlers (and warrior escorts) out as fast as possible. Once those settlers are out, get another two workers and a couple of work-boats out as well (we would need to discuss the order to this later on).
Use these settlers to set up two cities.
a) The first would go on the hills to the north-east of the capital (in range of the clams, two forested hills, and stone). We would have to figure out at what rate Moscow is building culture. If it is able to expand to include the forested hill tile (one south and two west of the stone) within a usable time-frame, we could start the second city directly on a workboat (for the clams) (whip), a lighthouse (whip), then the great lighthouse (chop, chop and later, whip). If Moscow’s culture isn’t likely to let us work that forested hill in the near future, we may need to get culture into the second city at some point (though I think we can skip this). The second city could work both hills as mines (and later the stone quarry) for hammers and the clams for food. Two forest chops (the forested hills) could speed along its production as well.

EDIT: Mighty Googa (nice name change by the way) suggests a different site with more land, a plains hill but one less fish. Its a good idea but I want to hear from others too.

b) The second city would go on the jungle tile two north and one east of the copper (in range of the fish I think?) and immediately start on a library to get its culture up and to allow two scientists. Until it gets its culture up, it would be a crap city, but once it does, it can work the fish and run two scientists while allowing us to hook up the copper for some axemen/spearmen. So we would have our GPP city up and running (though the library is the limiting factor here). The reason I suggest this site is because of the copper, if we want to forgo the copper, we can use a different site, but copper would be nice sooner then later.

EDIT: Downside to this site is that we completely lose the very south-west gems.

The (proposed) alternate plan has the advantage that we would get our second and third cities out faster then we would if we kept all the capital’s forests for chopping the great lighthouse. This lets us get copper faster (and great scientists) but I am not sure if it would increase or decrease the amount of time it would take to get the great lighthouse.

Ok. One thing i defently agree with you and that is focusing Moscow ina settler rush.

I was thinking about the city north from the bronze site. We could forget about the fish. By the time we get that going I dont think it will be that usefull anymore. My reason: We are going to populate the island, that will cost us. The gems we are ignorig will be a very valuable resource, 1- For whiping (We dont need city readious for this effect, I know), 2- For money we will desperatly need in order to expand.

We can forgone that fish, and aim for a very rich city, to supoort not only resarch but mostly empire gorwth.

One thing we are not talking about is resarching ironworking, the north of our island is fiiled with jungle. That means we wont be albe to build good cities there without cutting jungles. We have to start pondering this.

OTHERS: Imacculate i think its great that you draw a plan and we comment over it. Its better this way, else we would be dealing with more guidelines that our outside life can support. So keep up the good job. Like I said before. I really like where we are going.

Well, i didn't go to the gym.
Instead, i came home and played with the world builder.
Is a 4000BC start with us alone on an island (as Peter) with the same conditions used for this game, except there are no other players and only the time victory condition is enabled.
If you want to, you can load it up and play the game building cities where you want them and researching whatever techs, to see how things turn out without worry about its effect on our actual game. Its a way to mirror our play and to predict some of the things we might be able to do. For SGOTM2, lots of teams tried to set them up. they sort of breakdown once you meet and start trading with other civs, but they are great for city placement, etc.

Too much time (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/World_Builder_BC-4000.Civ4SavedGame)

So, using this set-up, i made two cities. One is inland.
Note that it has a lighthouse and is set for stagnant growth and maximum hammers (without starving). Using this set-up, we could get a maximum of 9hammers/turn towards the great lighthouse. EDIT: the city should be working the quarry, not the hills mine for one additional hammer. It should be producing 10hammers/turn. My bad.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/inland_st.JPG

Here is a mature form of the city at size 20 with all tiles maximized for hammers (including workshops on plains etc) In this case (with a forge) it is building 33hammers/turn.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/mature_inland.JPG

Note that biology, railroads, and the one that gives you extra hammers from workshops and watermills is not yet invented.

Here is a look at the coastal city (at size four), also set for near-stagnant growth (excess food, not less)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/coastal_wo_moscow_culture.JPG

According to the world-builder, if Moscow doesn't build any additional culture (besides the palace) and goes through one revolt to get slavery, its culture will reach 150 in 1720BC and allow the second city to work an additional hill mine (please ignore the culture extending into the ocean for this graphic- increased culture from Moscow would only let us work that western hill anyway)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/coastal_st.JPG

Lastly, here is a look at the mature form of the coastal city (also set up for max hammers with a forge and with the same techs as for the mature form of the slightly more inland city).

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/mature_coastal.JPG

Based on this we can conclude that the great lighthouse would be completed more quickly if we built St. Pete on the plains hill, but its long-term production would be greater if we built it on the grassland jungle.

I have to agree with building on the plainshill. But we could also simulate a city on the grassland hills, and see what can we get from there. I think we gain one more title. Hows that?

I have to agree with building on the plainshill. But we could also simulate a city on the grassland hills, and see what can we get from there. I think we gain one more title. Hows that?

Simulate away. You now have all the tools you need. I think you will find that you'll lack food however.

A few interesting ideas. I believe that our 2nd city could go on the plains hill and our 3rd should go 1 North of the copper. I ahve planneda dotmap in my head but need to get it on my computer. It would fit 7 cities on the island.

Prominence is up.

Immaculate
marowaker(Just Played)
Prominence(Up now)
Mikeyredk(On deck)
mightygooga
g_storrow
pavelthesecond

I'll get it as soon as I get back home today. Flu has been taking its toll on me so I'll just do what everybody tells me to lol. My brain ain't working like it should be.

I think we buidl 2nd city on plains hill.

I agree with not going for AH but shoudl we wait for masonry until we get alphabet? I think it is not that expensive and we maybe get it after writing?
This is I thought we were going to start lighthouse as soon as the 2nd city was up? Do we have the lighthouse tech yet?

I agree with the churning of settler and warriors out for the 3rd city.

Hello,

I will have to ask you guys to skip my turn, my laptop is still on the shop, and my sisters computer is crappy. So Please skip my turn.

This also the reason why i havent simulated the city on grassland hills thing. Sorry about sounding like i wanted you to do something Imaculate. But looking at the pictures again, i realized that YES WE ARE GONNA LACK ON FOOD. So build away.

This also the reason why i havent simulated the city on grassland hills thing. Sorry about sounding like i wanted you to do something Imaculate.

I didn't take it that way. I just wanted people to play with the world builder i had put together :goodjob:


I agree with not going for AH but shoudl we wait for masonry until we get alphabet? I think it is not that expensive and we maybe get it after writing?
This is I thought we were going to start lighthouse as soon as the 2nd city was up? Do we have the lighthouse tech yet?

Thats a really good point. Maybe we should start on sailing after the wheel? Or before wheel is even done? I don't know. How far are we into the wheel? How far do we have to go? How long before we can get a settler out?

If we can, we should try to get sailing before St. Petersburg (spelling) is built so it can start on a lighthouse right away. If its impossible, then we will have to build a workboat for the clams first (don't be afraid to whip it).

You make another really good point too. I think we will need masonry before we finish alphabet. It will also drastically increase our hammer output in St. Pete, so its worth it for the production if nothing else.

Prominence: You got some math ahead of you.
Can you get sailing before the settler is ready to build? If so, great. If not, can you try to make it happen somehow? If totally impossible, then i guess work boat, then lighthouse?
Also, don't forget to build some Defense. We need a warrior for each city as an ABSOLUTE minimum. It may be worth buiding one or two more warriors after the settler before we establish our third city.


The other option to check the timing on techs vs. settler production etc is to use the worldbuilder save and just play it out a few different ways.

Just had another thought. If we have the 1st city doing warriors and settlers up until a point maybe 3rd city and the second city lighthouse/GL, where are we gonig to build this library for GPProduction?

Just had another thought. If we have the 1st city doing warriors and settlers up until a point maybe 3rd city and the second city lighthouse/GL, where are we gonig to build this library for GPProduction?

Originally, i was thinking that we could build it on the south-western end of the island in range of the fish and use the library's culture to hook the fish (and the copper) to run scientists.
Thats a controversial site however, as some have suggested that we build directly north of the copper so we can hook it up earlier (to fight barbs) which is a good point.
Either way, i think we should build our next (3rd) city in one of those two locations as it would be nice to get copper on-line sooner rather then later.
Location one: in range of fish: advantage: faster growth once fish are set up, can be used for GPP. Once mature, has enough food to work all tiles. disadvange: no copper until library is done (pretty big disadvantage), lose the gems (very southwest corner) forever
Location two: north one of copper: huge advantage: immediate copper. don't lose the gems to the south-west. disadvantage; no fish, no high food tile, very slow growth, will never be able to use all the plains tiles- working the copper will stagnate growth.

Ultimately, we can put a GPP city somewhere else as well.
Someone mentioned a dotmap and i want to see that.

Prominence: You got some math ahead of you.
Can you get sailing before the settler is ready to build? If so, great. If not, can you try to make it happen somehow? If totally impossible, then i guess work boat, then lighthouse?
Also, don't forget to build some Defense. We need a warrior for each city as an ABSOLUTE minimum. It may be worth buiding one or two more warriors after the settler before we establish our third city.


The other option to check the timing on techs vs. settler production etc is to use the worldbuilder save and just play it out a few different ways.

got it :goodjob: I'll see what I can do and report back

wait, do u mean get sailing before settler in complete and found the new city so lighthouse can be built there from turn one?

Good news:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/92643/Scout_survives.jpg our scout survives the encounter with the panthers :lol:

no, there are no bad news :p

I finished my 4th turn (I think) and...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/92643/Settler.JPG

As you can see, sailing can be completed way before the settler is completed. So I will go ahead and finish the wheel. Should our next build be a settler or worker? I'll wait for your replies before continuing. OH one more thing, it will take 5 turns to finish the wheel even then, sailing will be done before settler.

Build a worker first. That way you can chop the settlers/warriors.

You don't have to worry about culture (at least in the beginning), because Catherine is creative, +2 culture in each city)

Research: we need to get iron working right after alphabet. AI is usually slow at researching it from my experience and we need it to chop jungle plus I might be fortunate enough to have iron on our island. .

In terms of city placement: I vote for the site north of copper as apposed to the one north east. However, since we are on a fairly small island barbs aren't goanna be a big problem. Just place a couple of warriors through out the island so you can see every (or most) square(s) and problem solved.
Hence, I suggest instead we build the second city directly south of stone and the third city 2 squares east of cow and 2 squares north of rice.
Since our second city is going to be a production city, having fish for extra food is more important then gems for extra commerce. Our third city will have 3 food resources plus gems, perfect for a gp pump.
Only disadvantage is that one gem is not in city radius and we will need iron working sooner then later.

wouldn't it be better to have a 2nd city up ASAP and work on a lighthouse? and We're not cathrine. we're peter.

wouldn't it be better to have a 2nd city up ASAP and work on a lighthouse? and We're not cathrine. we're peter.

right. I played way to many games as Cathrine, so when i see orange i automaticly think its Cathrine. :blush:

I think we get ther worker out straight away to chop settlers /warrior.

We can discuss which city placemnet once we get the worker out.
Should we get a warrior before a settler as well. All these questiosn can be answered in the loner term.

Are we doing 15 turns each?

No. Prominence should do 10 turns and so will everyone else that does their turns from here on in. The 15 turns at the beginning was just for the beginning.

Hello guys, my outside life is getting to my nerves! Im still here. I will get my laptop today! So hopefully i will be able to play my turns.. I´ll post.

Agree with warrior, worker.

Here is your Session Turn Log from 3100 BC to 2800 BC:

Turn 30, 3100 BC: Barbarian's Panther (2.00) vs The Flying Vanillas's Scout (2.70)
Turn 30, 3100 BC: Combat Odds: 21.1%
Turn 30, 3100 BC: (Animal Combat: +20%)
Turn 30, 3100 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 30, 3100 BC: (Class Animal Combat: +100%)
Turn 30, 3100 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 30, 3100 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 30, 3100 BC: The Flying Vanillas's Scout is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 30, 3100 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 30, 3100 BC: The Flying Vanillas's Scout is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 30, 3100 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 30, 3100 BC: The Flying Vanillas's Scout is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 30, 3100 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 30, 3100 BC: The Flying Vanillas's Scout has defeated Barbarian's Panther!

Turn 35, 2950 BC: Hinduism has been founded in a distant land!
Turn 35, 2950 BC: Barbarian's Panther (2.00) vs The Flying Vanillas's Scout (2.22)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: Combat Odds: 43.4%
Turn 35, 2950 BC: (Animal Combat: +20%)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: (Hills: +20%)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: (Class Animal Combat: +100%)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: The Flying Vanillas's Scout is hit for 18 (66/100HP)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: The Flying Vanillas's Scout is hit for 18 (48/100HP)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: The Flying Vanillas's Scout is hit for 18 (30/100HP)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: The Flying Vanillas's Scout is hit for 18 (12/100HP)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: The Flying Vanillas's Scout is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: Barbarian's Panther has defeated The Flying Vanillas's Scout!

Turn 38, 2860 BC: You have discovered The Wheel!

Ok, my turn set is done, nothing much happened except our scout died to 2nd panther. I followed every1's suggestion and started on worker. We finished the whell and started research on sailing. I sent our first warriour up north on fogbusting duty. here's a ss:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/92643/last_turn.JPG

Three thoughts:


Production:

We can:

a) build a warrior then a settler. Building a warrior will take 8 turns and coincide with growth from 3 to 4 (after finishing the worker of course). Afterwards the settler will take 16 turns (i think), for a total fo 24 turns minus any turns for hacking away at forest.
b) build a settler straight away. This will take 22 turns minus any time for hacking away forests.


The difference is 2 (maybe 3) turns.
I think its worth building a warrior. One reason is that it will get us some defense, but more importantly, it will let us whip for 2 population points once the settler gets going. Would this make building a warrior (and growing to size four) actually faster then not building a warrior? We'll have to regrow that population afterwards, but i think we all want to get St. Pete up and working on the great lighthouse as fast as possible right?


DOTMAP:

I suggest the following dotmap. I know in this dotmap we are building the copper city in range of the fish and lose the gems, but this is the path i advocate (i've already explained my reasoning and will be perfectly okay if i am outvoted). Obviously the dotmap would change if we decide to build north of the copper.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/dotmap_2800.JPG


Research:

Can we fit pottery in before we need masonry? Options:

a) wheel, sailing, pottery, masonry, writing, alphabet

Obviously with the first choice we could build a lighthouse, a granery (half price), then a great lighthouse and fit some cottages around Moscow (we will need a fishing boat- where will that come from?). With this option, the great lighthouse may not be available as soon as sailing is done. The other side of the coin is that St. Pete would grow twice as fast and this may mean more net hammers contributed within the lifetime of the great lighthouse's production.


b) wheel, sailing, masonry, pottery, writing, alphabet

With this choice, we could probably move onto the great lighthouse as soon as we are done the lighthouse (we will need a fishing boat- where will that come from).


c) wheel, pottery, sailing, masonry, writing, alphabet

With this choice, we would build St. Pete, set it to a workboat, and whip it at size two, start a granery, work the clam and get back to size two and whip the granery as soon as we reach size two. Only after that would we start a lighthouse and the great lighthouse.






I think for now we just have to finish the worker and sailing (or switch to pottery before completing sailing if we want to go with option C for St. Pete)?

Will play probably friday

Since I was the one that suggested building a city north of bronze. I´ll have to say that the dotmap looks good. I think we maximized the reousrces. So o think the dot map will be allright.

Since I was the one that suggested building a city north of bronze. I´ll have to say that the dotmap looks good. I think we maximized the reousrces. So o think the dot map will be allright.

I think someone else had suggested that site also, so why don't we do a vote when it comes up?

Question,

What software do you use for drawing the radious? And do you edit the picture at all?

Question,

What software do you use for drawing the radious? And do you edit the picture at all?

I'm poor. I use paint. :blush: The only thing i do is add the ugly crooked lines. Probably other programs are better.

My guess is that its only a matter of time before they include a dot-mapping feature in the HOF mod. That things like a swiss-army-knife.

That would be usefull! Thanks for the info

sorry for teh noob question.

Where do we get the save and where do we put it once we finish?

I think option C on the research path to get a workboat first is a good idea before a lighthouse then greatlight house that is assuming we havent already done all the techs by then.
I am unsure abotu whipping a granary in the 2nd city though.

Check the first post in this thread, there you will find a link to the place qhere the save game is. and if im not wrong, you also have to upload it there.

Alright playing now

Not playing don't know why it won't open skip

Well looks like I won't be able to play no HOF mod for the macs just yet…

Not playing don't know why it won't open skip

Well looks like I won't be able to play no HOF mod for the macs just yet…

That totally sucks man. I am pretty sure that there is a HOF for the MACs. One of the admins uses a Mac and i am pretty sure he has been trying to get it to work on his Mac and has had some success. I remember this used to be an issue but i thought it was solved. Try PMing AlanH; he's pretty cool about answering bugs or at least pointing you in the right direction.


Also, check this out. I was playing as Saladin (Monarch, Pangea, 7 opponents) and got a 5-headed hydra (five religious shrines in one city). When i won in the 1800s, i was making 342gpt from the shrines.


http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/5-017_345gpt_at_100_research.JPG

The story behind that game can be found in my signature's link. I just thought i would show you the way it ended.

That totally sucks man. I am pretty sure that there is a HOF for the MACs. One of the admins uses a Mac and i am pretty sure he has been trying to get it to work on his Mac and has had some success. I remember this used to be an issue but i thought it was solved. Try PMing AlanH; he's pretty cool about answering bugs or at least pointing you in the right direction.


Also, check this out. I was playing as Saladin (Monarch, Pangea, 7 opponents) and got a 5-headed hydra (five religious shrines in one city). When i won in the 1800s, i was making 342gpt from the shrines.


http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/5-017_345gpt_at_100_research.JPG

The story behind that game can be found in my signature's link. I just thought i would show you the way it ended.

If you are alright at math (like me) and are VERY presise (also like me) you would find out that you are making 106gpt from the shrines since you get 1 gold from the specialist and 8 gold from the palace as well as +200% from buildings. Still awesome though.:goodjob:

But that is not the purpose of this thread.:sad:

Anyway, i believe in research path A. It goes well with my thoughts.Your dotmap looks allright, ven though we miss out on 2 gems and a fish. They are only important if we can trade them.

Mightygooga, do you have HOF1.61.009? I couldn't open the file with .008 until i relised that there is actually a VERY new version of it out. I wonder if that still applies to Mac's though.

If you are very good at math (like me) and are VERY presise (also like me) you would find out that you are making 106gpt from the shrines since you get 1 gold from the specialist and 8 gold from the palace as well as +200% from buildings. Still awesome though.:goodjob:

But that is not the purpose of this thread.:sad:


Actually, the palace gives 8 commerce not 8 gold, at 100% research, that commerce is going into beakers. very precise you say? [pimp] hehe... you are right though about jacking the thread... sorry :mischief: EDIT: no offense of course...

:sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep:

EDIT: Marrowaker: Do you also like math? If you do and you were willing... would you be able to figure out which of those paths gets us the great lighthouse fastest?

Mightygooga, do you have HOF1.61.009? I couldn't open the file with .008 until i relised that there is actually a VERY new version of it out. I wonder if that still applies to Mac's though.
I think you meant mikeyredk, not MightyGooga?

The first post in the Maintenance thread, and several posts in the Sign-up thread make it clear that SGOTM 3 does not support Mac players.

We were going to create a special, reduced-spec, cross-platform version of the HoF Mod to do so, but when I asked in the sign-up thread there was only one Mac player. He stood down when it looked as if 70 vanilla players would all have to live with a sub-spec mod to accommodate a single Mac player. No one else admitted to using a Mac then, and mikeyredk is the only additional Mac player who has surfaced since.

Roster:

Immaculate
marowaker
Prominence (played)
Mikeyredk(couldn't play due to Mac :cry: )
mightygooga(Up now)
g_storrow
pavelthesecond

Marowaker: Do you also like math? If you do and you were willing... would you be able to figure out which of those paths gets us the great lighthouse fastest?

Sure, I will edit the results when i have the time to do so.

I think you meant mikeyredk, not MightyGooga?

The first post in the Maintenance thread, and several posts in the Sign-up thread make it clear that SGOTM 3 does not support Mac players.

Yes, my mistake, i still have many people to get used to.

The Mac thing is a shame, looks like mikeyredk can't play in this game:sad: :cry: :hammer2:

Awww man. Bad luck m8. I have no objections with the dot map. We're missing two gems and a fish but I think we'll live lol.

yes, the dot map looks like the best overall position for cities.

Mighty, you are aware that its your turn right?

OK, am figuring out the tech path that gives us the Great Lighthouse soonest.

As much as i hate to do it, Mikeyredk can't play. I guess he has a special condition that he is in the team but can't play a round.

Special Honours,:king:

You may post your ideas for your team if you want to.

Immaculate
marowaker
Prominence (just played)
mightygooga (UP) (Does he know?:confused: )
g_storrow
pavelthesecond

EDIT: OK, I haven't done the math yet, but this is what I know on Epic Speed:
A worker costs 90 hammers.
A work boat costs 45 hammers.
A settler costs 150 hammers.
A Lighthouse costs 90 hammers.
The Great Lighthouse is 300 hammers.

Sailing costs 223 beakers
Masonry costs 178 beakers
Pottery costs 178 beakers too.

Food needed to grow=(3xCurrent Population)+30

That means 1-2 would be 33 food
2-3 would be 36 food
and so on....

St Pete(if foundedon the plain hill) has these tiles in the first 9 squares:
1 Clam which would be 4f/2c after work boat
3 Coast tiles which are 2f/2c
1 Plain/Stone which is 1f/4p after a quarry
1 Grassland/Jungle which is 1f
1 Hills/Forest/Grassland which is 1f/2p
1 Plain which is 1f/1p
1 Grassland/Jungle which is 1
and the city square which is 2f/2p/1c
St. Pete,when it gets founded could also work 1 extra plain and 1 Grassland Forest since those are the overlaping tiles and can work them

Moscow can work those 2 tiles I just said above as well as:
7 Coast tiles which is 1f/1c
1 city tile which is 2f/1p(we are working this(I like being presise))
1 floodplain which is 3f/1c
2 Ocean tiles which are 1f/1c
1 Coast/Clam with boats which is 4f/2c(we are working this)
1 Coast/Clam without boats which is 2f/2c
3 Grassland/Forest which is 2f/2p
2 Grassland/Spice which is 2f/1c
1 Plain/Spice/Forest which is 1f/2p/1c(we are working this)

My logic without using any math:
If we are going to build the Great Lighthouse in our 2nd city (which I believe we are) then after the worker that Moscow is building, we build a settler. Then after that we build a Work boat, then some warriors for defence.
The warrior that is now fogbusting could defend St. Pete's until we get some military up. St. Pete's start with a lighthouse for the great Lighthouse while we get the Work Boat running, then goes straight on to the Great Lighthouse. We should time the discovery of Masonry with the time we finish the Lighthouse. We then continue to grow St. Pete's not focusing on production but growth instead. When it hits size 2 we should comtinue growing with the clam and the Hills/Forest/Grassland tile in the first square. We now get 7 food a turn with 2 population.It is mainly a matter of growing to the size in which we can fetch the whip:whipped: . And the worker could help us a bit too.

My tech path would be Sailing > Masonry > Pottery.

Good numbers.
I just have one small concern. We will be running our civilization with only 1 warrior for a long time? Isn't that dangerous. I mean, if we could fog-bust the island (which we would need warriors to do) i wouldn't worry so much but as it is, a single barbarian warrior could ruin all our plans (and destroy our civilization).
IMHO, we should build a warrior after the settler in Moscow.

OK, am figuring out the tech path that gives us the Great Lighthouse soonest.

As much as i hate to do it, Mikeyredk can't play. I guess he has a special condition that he is in the team but can't play a round.

Special Honours,:king:

You may post your ideas for your team if you want to.

Immaculate
marowaker
Prominence (just played)
mightygooga (UP) (Does he know?:confused: )
g_storrow
pavelthesecond

EDIT: OK, I haven't done the math yet, but this is what I know on Epic Speed:
A worker costs 90 hammers.
A work boat costs 45 hammers.
A settler costs 150 hammers.
A Lighthouse costs 90 hammers.
The Great Lighthouse is 300 hammers.

Sailing costs 223 beakers
Masonry costs 178 beakers
Pottery costs 178 beakers too.

Food needed to grow=(3xCurrent Population)+30

That means 1-2 would be 33 food
2-3 would be 36 food
and so on....

St Pete(if foundedon the plain hill) has these tiles in the first 9 squares:
1 Clam which would be 4f/2c after work boat
3 Coast tiles which are 2f/2c
1 Plain/Stone which is 1f/4p after a quarry
1 Grassland/Jungle which is 1f
1 Hills/Forest/Grassland which is 1f/2p
1 Plain which is 1f/1p
1 Grassland/Jungle which is 1
and the city square which is 2f/2p/1c
St. Pete,when it gets founded could also work 1 extra plain and 1 Grassland Forest since those are the overlaping tiles and can work them

Moscow can work those 2 tiles I just said above as well as:
7 Coast tiles which is 1f/1c
1 city tile which is 2f/1p(we are working this(I like being presise))
1 floodplain which is 3f/1c
2 Ocean tiles which are 1f/1c
1 Coast/Clam with boats which is 4f/2c(we are working this)
1 Coast/Clam without boats which is 2f/2c
3 Grassland/Forest which is 2f/2p
2 Grassland/Spice which is 2f/1c
1 Plain/Spice/Forest which is 1f/2p/1c(we are working this)

My logic without using any math:
If we are going to build the Great Lighthouse in our 2nd city (which I believe we are) then after the worker that Moscow is building, we build a settler. Then after that we build a Work boat, then some warriors for defence.
The warrior that is now fogbusting could defend St. Pete's until we get some military up. St. Pete's start with a lighthouse for the great Lighthouse while we get the Work Boat running, then goes straight on to the Great Lighthouse. We should time the discovery of Masonry with the time we finish the Lighthouse. We then continue to grow St. Pete's not focusing on production but growth instead. When it hits size 2 we should comtinue growing with the clam and the Hills/Forest/Grassland tile in the first square. We now get 7 food a turn with 2 population.It is mainly a matter of growing to the size in which we can fetch the whip:whipped: . And the worker could help us a bit too.

My tech path would be Sailing > Masonry > Pottery.

People !!! I asked to be skipped My lap top still isnt working, its kind a hard to find somethhing that will run the game. May I be skipd this turn?

Sorry Mighty.

Roster:

Immaculate
marowaker
Prominence (played)
Mikeyredk(couldn't play due to Mac :cry: )
mightygooga(lap top doesn't work yet)
g_storrow(Up now)
pavelthesecond


:sheep:

Thanks !!! Last friday, after a full work week wtih no CIVING at al, when I got home and turned my LAPTOP it just WENT KAPUFT. Spent the whole weekend NOT playing civilization. My hands are starting to shake. Gona find out about it tomorrow.

Agrree: With the warrior thing. Warriors are cheap. Having a Barbarian city on our island its gonna get expensive. So lets build warriors to lift the fog. This is safer. We are doing a good job towards the GreatLightHouse, we could jeopardize it all if barbarian incursions start to happen. It will take us 10 to 15 turns to build enough warriors to lift the fog. I vote, thats ok.

Sorry to hear that Mighty. I hope that your KAPUFT laptop can be fixed. new ones are too expensive to let an old one go lightly.

The thing about Barb cities also, is that the 'No City Razing' option has been enabled, which means that even a size one city is kept once you run it over. Thats good in that it means if the city is in the right place, you don't have to wait for it to be size two to take it. Its bad because if its not in the right place, you have no option to move it. I think the bad outweighs the good and we have to do our best to prevent the barbs from building on our island (thats what the greek island is for :) )

No Worries Imacul, I´ll get that fixed. Dell Computers, and the ATI Radeon video cards, NO GOOD.

Cant wait to get my turn going.

Yes maybe I should think a bit more on the defence. This is Monarch after all. I think that a warrior on Epic costs 20 hammers. Can anyone prove this(I would, but I am busy).

Either way, there are the numbers. If someone is bored, than they can attempt to organize it better(to the point of finding out what we will do.)

Mightygooga, sorry missed that. :sheep: Don't know what I was smoking there[pimp]

I will play tonight.

I think we should build 1 or two warriors but not fog bust the whole island.
I thought we had the plan to have a warrior escort each settler we are going to build the warrior before the settler. I will ahve a look tonight.

But G, its possible to fogbust we few warriors, we have a lot of hills that will help. In my math we will need 4 to 5 warriors, including the ones protecting cities, that means 3 warriors out, to fogbust. If we are talking 5 to 8 turns a warrior (That is a safe projecction), we can afford a two city warrior build. What do you think?

I have played so it is pavels turn.

I will post more detaisl later.

I messed up on th score as changed mind from sailing to pottery after 3 turns so we have no increase in score. no barbarians. wokrer chopping tile NE . 3 turns left 5 turn left for pottery. working on warrior. Idont know wheter it is worth letting city grow until 4 by working on WB or or barracks or warrior until we hit 4 and then start settler.

I have played so it is pavels turn.

I will post more detaisl later.

I messed up on th score as changed mind from sailing to pottery after 3 turns so we have no increase in score. no barbarians. wokrer chopping tile NE . 3 turns left 5 turn left for pottery. working on warrior. Idont know wheter it is worth letting city grow until 4 by working on WB or or barracks or warrior until we hit 4 and then start settler.

I haven't looked at the save, but that sounds alright. We are now committed to the:
pottery->sailing->masonary route.

This would suggest to me that we build workboat->granary->lighthouse->great lighthouse and whip whenever possible. The granary is cheap and by the time the lighthouse is done, it will have paid for itself by effectively halving the price of the granary itself (population lost will grow back 2x as fast) and the lighthouse (population will again grow back 2x as fast). Once we get to great lighthouse, grow to population happiness cap and then when the end is in sight, allow to grow to size six and whip the last 3 population points towards it as soon as its available. Timing will be tricky but we got lots of people thinking about it.

I think we should grow our capital to size four before we start on a settler then whip ASAP.


Please do post more details at your earliest convenience however.

Sorry to double post (:bump:)
Okay, so i had a chance to look at the save.

I had two thoughts for the next player.

G_starrow is currently chopping a forest. We don't want those hammers to go into warriors or other things like that, we want them to go into the settler so we can get that out faster.

So when you play, make sure to stop the worker before he completes the chop (preferably one turn before the chop is complete- this is called pre-chopping). You can continue chopping for two more turns, then build a road for awhile (or something else like start pre-chopping another forest), then go back to chopping the forest once you reach size 4 and start working on a settler. This puts the hammers into the expensive settler and makes completing it faster.


Secondly, we are currently working the tiles as follows in Moscow:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG

As you can tell, we will finish the warrior in 4 turns, 2 turns before we grow to size 4.

We could grow to size 4 and finish the warrior in time for growth to size 4, if we change tile allocation as follows:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG


I would suggest that you switch to this configuration so you can get to size 4and start building a settler faster. To get the warrior out on the same turn that you get to size 4, every round, change the tile allocation between the plains spice forest and a grassland forest and try to get both columns (food growth to size 4 and hammers build to warriors) complete on the same round. We should, with some careful micro-management, be able to get both growth to size four and the warrior completed within 5 turns.

You may need to leave the warrior at home to garrison Moscow and prevent rioting... i suspect this is the case, but i am not 100% sure.

Once the chop goes into the settlers, dont forget to check every turn (or as appropriate) to see if you can whip the settlers to completion. the moment that arrow lights up- hit the whip and let 'em bleed.

Once you whip, go back to working high food tiles (clams and floodplains (floodplains cottage maybe?)) to get the size back.

What should Moscow build while it gets back to size 4 (or 5?)? Workboat? Warrior?

K, thats my analysis. If i am repeating stuff you already know, then just ignore me. If you know a faster way, then speak up and lets do it that way.

ok, i managed to build warrior in 5 turns and grow to size 4 on the same turn. :)
the forrest NE of moscow has be pre-chopped as requested.

btw, we are not very powerfull
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/80711/Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG

i sent the second warrior fog-busting since moscow is not going to grow above 4 for a while yet. I suggest we build another warrior after the settler

the is the final turn:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/80711/Civ4ScreenShot0003.JPG

Nice turns Pavelthesecond. If i understand correctly, you grew to size 4/built a warrior in your fifth turn, then built the settler for five turns, then whipped on turn 10?

Its perfect by the way- well done.

Roster:
Immaculate (Up now)
marowaker
Prominence
g_storrow
pavelthesecond (played)

And when things get fixed this guy gets to play the next turn-set:
mightygooga (laptop doesn't work yet)

I can play tomorrow evening.

Uhh..... g_storrow hasn't posted his turnset yet:( .Well he has a little bit but not the full details. pavelthesecond, you should have waited.:( . It doesn't mater too much since Immaculate posted some tips. Everyone, just make sure you never do that again.:goodjob:

Either way, we have a good round. Immac can found our 2nd city for us. Maybe you should rename it, we can have a fun time since it doesn't matter. Each new city should have a fun nickname. Maybe Moscow should be renamed as well.

Sorry I forgot to take screenshots and the like. As all i did was change tech and put a worker to chop a forest.

I am glad pavel changed what I was doing I never thought about leaving the chopping until worker /settler builds.

I will play my turns slower and with more care and screenies next time.

I think we shoudl name warriros so we know who we are referring to.
If we are going to use whipping so much a workboat for the 2nd city woudl be quite handy. I think we might struggle for th GL if we build Wb then granry and other stuff.

.... which of course suggests that perhaps we should be building the workboat in Moscow for use by St. Pete's....

...i'm breaking out he world builder before i start my turns and i will post what i learn and we can discuss that... then we can make a plan...

:sheep:

World Builder Test

I tried to make it as realistic as possible
I timed the research to be 5 turns away from sailing (but at 154 beakers out of 223, not 159- couldn’t get it that exact).
I gave Moscow a settler and 10hammers towards a warrior.
I gave us two warriors, located in identical positions to the warriors present in the last save.
I pre-chopped the forest north of the flood plains and started a cottage on the floodplains themselves.

So I played things out a few different ways:
EDIT #5 (i almagamated what i wrote earlier):

One thing i noticed really sped up the time to get the great lighthouse wasn't whipping St. Pete (i was wrong about that) which means we don't need a granary there. The biggest difference in gettting it up quick was whether or not we got a second worker up to develop the tiles around it.

So, in that spirit, after numerous tests, i suggest that Moscow start immediately on another worker. Our present worker should continue to work on the cottage it is currently involved in. Once that is done, it moves to the northern forest and chops the pre-cut forest there. Once that is done, it moves to St. Petes and starts chopping the forest on a hill to help get out a work boat first. The chop will complete the work boat and carry over a tiny bit into the regular lighthouse. After that, just grow with the clam's food and build with mines and quarry hammers.

Its the capital that should whip a granary however. Once the worker is done, it should switch to a granary, and as soon as it is possible (i think once one round of hammers are invested because we are expanionist according to my observations), whip it right away, then grow back to size four while building two warriors, then work another settler (and whip that too).

Anyway, thats my plan. I will wait about 2 hours then play my turns.

Speak up if you think this is a bad plan before i start implementing it.

Uhh..... g_storrow hasn't posted his turnset yet:( .Well he has a little bit but not the full details. pavelthesecond, you should have waited.:( . It doesn't mater too much since Immaculate posted some tips. Everyone, just make sure you never do that again.:goodjob:

Either way, we have a good round. Immac can found our 2nd city for us. Maybe you should rename it, we can have a fun time since it doesn't matter. Each new city should have a fun nickname. Maybe Moscow should be renamed as well.


I am starting to agree with Marowaker.

Actually, i was looking at the save, and i realized something that sort of was bad planning. You chopped the forest two east, and one north of Moscow. I think this was a bad move. You should have chopped the forest to the north of moscow. There is no changing it now, but here are my reasons:
1) Chopping that forest now prevents us from chopping it latter to speed the great lighthouse in St. Pete.
2) Chopping that forest now prevents us from using a two food, one hammer tile when St. Pete is originally founded, thereby curbing the speed at which we get a workboat out.
3) If we were going to leave some forests around, this would be a great one to leave around because it would contribute health towards both Moscow and St. Pete.
4) We wanted St. Pete to be a production city, and by chopping that forest, you effectively removed a source of 1 hammer (2 hammers after replaceable parts, 3 hammers after railroad). So i guess its now going to be cottaged for Moscow or workshopped for St. Pete (which is subpar)
5) Chop forests on rivers first, they can always be repaced with water-mills which are better, and by chopping them you get to work the commerce tile that you don't get when you work a forest thats on a river.

The decision is made now and its too late to change it, but we have to make our decisions carefully. Otherwise, it was a great turn however so don't feel bad or anything.

EDIT: sorry to triple post- i know its bad form. I had just noticed that decision now however when i was comparing the world builder to the actual save. It took me a bit to realize what difference i was looking at.

So, i went ahead and played.

Here is your Session Turn Log from 2230 BC to 1900 BC:
Turn 62, 2140 BC: St. Petersburg has been founded.
Turn 63, 2110 BC: You have discovered Sailing!
Turn 64, 2080 BC: Buddhism has spread in Moscow.

Score: we are at the bottom of the pile. :blush: I hope this reflects only the fact that we have no military and our cities are both size one now. Hopefully this will pick up again as we continue.

Here's my analysis:

We finished the settler and i set a course for a worker (as outlined in the post two positions above this one). The current worker continued to build a cottage. Once it was done, Moscow began to use it to start growing it.

I founded St. Petersburg (2140BC). Please note that we are working the clams instead of a forested plain (for +2 commerce, -1 hammers), but thats okay 'cause we will be using workboat clams soon enough once we get a chop in. In the meantime i wanted to grow.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/SGOTM3_2_-01.JPG

We then got sailing. I started towards masonry.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/SGOTM3_2_-02.JPG

Then Buddhism spread to our lands which means that the founder of Buddhism, Ghandi, can see our capital, so he opened trade with us. I was asked if i wanted to convert and for now i refused. It may be best to wait for Ghandi to ask us to convert in which case we would get a +1 diplomatic modifier for converting when asked. Its also worth noting that we don't need the happiness from religion yet, but that if we do, it is available.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/SGOTM3_2_-03.JPG

Once the cottage was complete, i moved the worker one north to the river grassland forest tile and completed the chop there- thereby finishing the worker currently in production.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/SGOTM3_2_-05.JPG

Once the worker was completed i worked on a granary for one turn, then whipped it to completion. In my opinion, there is zero reason not to do this in most cities (maybe not the great lighthouse city obviously), because we will grow back that lost population twice as fast and it costs so very little. Better to do it early then later. Now that the granary is whipped, we should try to grow to size 4 before producing more settlers. In the meantime, either build warriors, or build a workboat. In my play-testing its possible to build two warriors and time growth to size four at the same time. The first warrrior should stay in Moscow to act as military police (the people are gonna be a little unhappy about being whipped- hehe)

Here's a look at the empire at the end of my turn-set:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/SGOTM3_2_-06.JPG

Both workers are heading up to the forested hill north-west of St. Petersburg. They are going to chop that forest (hopefully, unless someone stops them), to help in the production of the workboat. When they are done, they should go directly to the stone and build a quary, then back on the hill to build a mine, then to the other forested grassland hill to build another mine. Its possible to work that square because Moscow's culture will soon grow (especially now that it has Buddhism), which means that tile will become accessible to St. Petersburg.

Here's the culture shot of Moscow:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/SGOTM3_2_-07.JPG


K, so thats my turn. I uploaded the save; we are in last points for score now :(. I think this is okay though. We will recover. Its partially because we whipped (twice) and its partially because we focused on getting another city out. Workers don't contribute directly to score, but once they start improving our terrain, they will contribute quite a bit.

EDIT: oh yeah, and i renamed the warriors igor and boris, and i named the workers sasha and dasha, but i couldn't think of a clever name for our cities. sorry.

Interesting plans, I will follow your ideas for worker improvment at St. Pete's. I will also rename Moscow since we need to have a bit of fun:) . My 1 question is dd you see where the unit of ghandi's was? It would be nice to find out where he lives so we can take action appropitly:sniper: .

I will do my turnset soon.

Immaculate (Just Played)
marowaker (Up now)
Prominence
Mightygooga
g_storrow
pavelthesecond

Interesting plans, I will follow your ideas for worker improvment at St. Pete's. I will also rename Moscow since we need to have a bit of fun:) . My 1 question is dd you see where the unit of ghandi's was? It would be nice to find out where he lives so we can take action appropitly:sniper: .

I will do my turnset soon.


When his religion spread to us he was able to see into our city; thats how he made contact. No units were involved.

Interesting plans, I will follow your ideas for worker improvment at St. Pete's. I will also rename Moscow since we need to have a bit of fun:) . My 1 question is dd you see where the unit of ghandi's was? It would be nice to find out where he lives so we can take action appropitly:sniper: .

I will do my turnset soon.

Immaculate (Just Played)
marowaker (Up now)
Prominence
Mightygooga
g_storrow
pavelthesecond

Isnt there a few people who can't play in front of me?

Guys,

I thought I saw a Barbarian Warrior in the western edge of our Island. Are you guys seeing that? Right by the bronze. My biggest fear is a barbarian city poping up somewhere there. Our plans for the island can make it into a big war factory, but a barbarian city WILL slow us down.

Marowaker can you get on of our warriors there just to see this threat gone? We sure will be able to defend ourselfs if the barb atack us in a jungle our hill title.

Isnt there a few people who can't play in front of me?

Well yeah. Mikeyredk can't play at all so I removed him from the list and Mightygooga's laptop isn't working so he can't play either (momentarily). Everyone else can play.

I thought I saw a Barbarian Warrior in the western edge of our Island. Are you guys seeing that? Right by the bronze. My biggest fear is a barbarian city poping up somewhere there. Our plans for the island can make it into a big war factory, but a barbarian city WILL slow us down.

You are right, i would send one down, except that it will probably take longer than the settler going the long way and we don't have any galley's yet. I will build one after our first warrior in Moscow.

OK I am playing now.

just posting to say I'm still alive :D I'll take some time to read all the stuff that has happened tomorrow. Too much work has gotten over me.

OK have done my turnset. But we are gooing VERY slow. So we shall make our turns go a bit faster from now on. I am saying it now since Immaculate and I have both had 15 turns each. Now everyone does 15 turns each OK? This just makes us a bit faster.

Anyway:
Turn 0:
I saw that barb warrior that Mightygooga was refering to but if anyone didn't, here it is.
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4255/civ4screenshot0003ue7.jpg

Turn 1:
I see the workers have been renamed so I renamed St. Petersburg to something more.........suitable
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/2754/civ4screenshot0004xo4.jpg
Yes it is a wierd name BUT the next person can rename Moscow so they can have fun as well.
I start on a warrior in Moscow.

Turn 2:
Judaism FIDAL

Turn 3:
We get Masonry
http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/4005/civ4screenshot0009zd5.jpg
I start on Writing for Alphabet. Moscow's borders expanded.

Turn 7:
Marodeny grows to size 2.

The roster is now 15 turns a player to speed things up.

Immaculate
marowaker(Just played)
Prominence(Up now)
Mightygooga(not available)
g_storrow
pavelthesecond

Great turns. I had a look at the save. The fishing boat is on the clams and you grew the second city nicely then started using a high hammer tile (the quarry) right away. Lighthouse will be done soon and we can keep growing for 3 hammers each time we grow (by adding mines). I think the great lighthouse :yumyum: is ours (crosses fingers)

I have two thoughts.

1.) Tile arrangement for our second city (Marodeny-:crazyeye: ). So far so good. Lets keep things focused and tight. Just to make things clear, with the clams netted and the regular lighthouse on the way, we want to work high hammer tiles (the clams can feed all those workers no problem).
So, as Marowaker has already begun, keep making that mine on the grassland hill and when that is done, start the second mine on the second grassland hill (sending a chop's worth of hammers to Merodeny in the meantime). Which of course means that when Merodeny grows to size 3 from four, it starts working the grassland hills mine and when its grows from 3 to 4, it works a second grassland hills mine (in both cases, in addition to the clams and stone quarry).

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/SGOTM_1600BC.JPG



2.) Happiness in our capital.

Here's a look at our current happiness state:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG

These poor SOBs are gonna continue to "not be able to forget our cruel oppression" for the forseeable future and when we grow to size three, they will demand military protection. That means that the warrior that is in production will be required to stay at home in Moscow to provide that military happiness. It also means that Merodeny will soon need a warrior of its own to grow from size 3 to size four. I am not sure how long that will take and if we can afford to do other things in the meantime, but we shouldn't slow down its growth over this issue unless we absolutely have to.

So... all that to say... a) we need to keep that warrior Moscow is building in Moscow and b) what should we build after the warrrior? Do we have time to build something else before we build a warrior to police Merodeny? With writing almost done, we could start opening some borders and making contacts if we had a boat in the water. How do we balance these two priorities?

My 2:commerce:

1)I am not as concerned regarding the barbarian town as mg but I assume we are going to transport our settler in a galley but I dont think we will be able to build galley, settler and warrior for bronze town before mardony needs warriro for happiness so I reckon we build warrior (mardony), galley (explores to
???? ideas for direction,) whiel we buidl another warrior then settler) for transport to bronze.When/if we whip? When /if we chop? obivuosly with the chopping we need to think about point 3?
2)Ideas of what we research after alphabet?
I think we research what the AI doesnt for trade to alexander more hten gandhi, hopefully we find other nations to trade with, with galley. It worries me gandhis score as I think he will outech everyoen as he does this more often than not.
3)Have we decided what moscow is gonig to be as in poduction/commerce/gpp? what are going to be good tiles to work at the moment.
4)The idea for an early library for GS seems to have disappeared.

Apologies for v poor typing.

right, I'll get to it first thing tonight

In regards to the early library for a GS, i think that idea is still alive. Our third city should go to either the bronze fish, or the rice, fish, cattle, and build a library (maybe help with whipping), then get to size 3 (or 4) and focus on working scientists.

But, what do we want to do with a scientist? We can try for philosophy (in which case we need meditation and either code of laws or drama) or we can try for machinary (in which case we CANNOT take meditation, and we need to get metal casting, compas, math and calendar) or we can get an academy (in the capital?). I think we should get cottages around the capital once we have a settlers/warriors/galley out.

Okay! Guess the Crazy Barbarian Chingpo Pow, will be allowed to wander our great Vanilla Land.

1 - Laptop FIXED, HAPPY AS A OTHER. Please put me on the roester again.

2 - I dont think we should spend much time on the galley thing. What we really need is to get BOTH towns that Imacul suggested. The BRonze fish, and the CATTLE etc. Those two towns will give us room to expand a navy when we really need to. Are ou guys positive that you want to do that?

1 - Laptop FIXED, HAPPY AS A OTHER. Please put me on the roester again.

I think you mean an 'otter' (they swim and play and are really cute and eat clams and roll themselves up in kelp so they don't get pulled out to sea)? Not to spell-check you or anything... English is my second language too, but i have to speak it every single day.
Thats excellent news Mighty. Did you get a friend to do it or did you have to pay some money or was it guarenteed?



2 - I dont think we should spend much time on the galley thing. What we really need is to get BOTH towns that Imacul suggested. The BRonze fish, and the CATTLE etc. Those two towns will give us room to expand a navy when we really need to. Are ou guys positive that you want to do that?

I think it would be great if we could have two boats in the water and starting their trip around the world before alphabet completes (one going west and one east), but they don't have to be gallies; they could be workboats too (and later we could use them for fishing). But, the thing is, galleys are much more expensive, but they have a chance against a barb galley. Not much chance for a workboat... But, if we are careful...

Exactly ! Happy as an OTTER! Thats what I meant. Thanks for the checking Imacul. I really dont mind if people corrects me, it only means Im getting better. And anyways, that WORD isnt exactly part of my vocabulary.

I had to pay to get it fixed. Becouse I didnt knwo that they would just format and reinstall the whole thing. I hate having to reinstall it takes so long, and I never get the updates right. So I thought what the heck... Got my computer nice and clean. It is almost flying. I have a Dell Inspiron 9100 costumized, with 1g ram, and 3.0 mghz and a ATI RADEON SOMETHING SOMEHTING video card, that allows a good gameplay.

So I guess the purpose of exploring with worboats are 2. 1, Make Contact before borders locks us out. 2, Circunavigate firs so we get the bonuses(Which are?). Im more inclined to accept workboat exploration than galleys. Except for the fact that in early game they will be more helpfull fishing for our cities. But I guess we can do that and see what happens.

the poitn abotu the galley was to get teh galley going so we can transport the settler to the bronze but if we go with other location we might go for workboat exploration

Thats true.

And we may not need the bronze for barbs (although it would be nice to have an insurance policy), but we will need it for the AI. Hehe. Do we want to make the bronze city a priority?

sorry guys, I'm gonna have to ask that you skip my turn this time. I am very sick and I get bad headaches whenever I try to concentrate and think. again, sorry. *pours a cup of tea and goes back to bed*

Laptop FIXED, HAPPY AS A OTHER. Please put me on the roester again.

Great! Since you havn't had a go yet, you will have this turnset which I just played.

Do we want to make the bronze city a priority?

It really depends on what we do with expansion. If we make it a priority, then we will need to go after Alex since that is the only AI in which we know their land. I am really thinking about vistory conditions again. Diplomatic would be faster but we would need some skill during the game with Diplomacy. I am now starting to lean towards Diplomatic.

sorry guys, I'm gonna have to ask that you skip my turn this time. I am very sick and I get bad headaches whenever I try to concentrate and think. again, sorry. *pours a cup of tea and goes back to bed*

That is a shame. Hope you get better soon.:goodjob:

Immaculate
marowaker (just played)
Prominence (skipped)
Mightygooga (Up now)
g_storrow
pavelthesecond

With diplomatic I think it is a good idea to war but later on when we can have a mutual struggle.
I have never used russians before but it looks like to me cossacks are very strong.

Youhooo !!!! Im up now ! Wait.. Let me download the save. So Help me here guys. I will donwload, and play 15 turns, post a summary (hopefully with pictures) and then say "NEXT!". Right?

Gosh... What do I do?

I Got the save 1600bc, hoe thats right. I will play it tonight. I´ll try to take screenshots and upload them here, never done that before, I hope i can get it right.

Immacul, its impossible to do a summary as good as yours. But could you please give a direction here where we are going?

So, i'll quote myself about Marodeny (from post 133- i think)

1.) Tile arrangement for our second city (Marodeny-:crazyeye: ). So far so good. Lets keep things focused and tight. Just to make things clear, with the clams netted and the regular lighthouse on the way, we want to work high hammer tiles (the clams can feed all those workers no problem).
So, as Marowaker has already begun, keep making that mine on the grassland hill and when that is done, start the second mine on the second grassland hill (sending a chop's worth of hammers to Merodeny in the meantime). Which of course means that when Merodeny grows to size 3 from four, it starts working the grassland hills mine and when its grows from 3 to 4, it works a second grassland hills mine (in both cases, in addition to the clams and stone quarry).

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/SGOTM_1600BC.JPG



When the lighthouse in Merodeny is done, start work on the great lighthouse.


If Merodeny looks like it is going to grow to size four before your turnset is over, you may need to recall either Igor or Boris to act as military police if you don't have two warriors produced in Moscow yet.


Moscow should finish its warrior, then start either another warrior or, if you want to start exploring, a workboat. I would suggest a second warrior, but its up to you. In either case you want to emphasize food in Moscow so that you are working the netted clams, and the cottage on the floodplains. Once you grow to size three, try to work a plains forest (2 food, 1 hammer) if available.

I dont think you'll be able to build more then 1 or 2 warriors in Moscow during your turn set (because the priority is not hammers, but food to get Moscow big again). If you manage to get to size 5, switch to a settler the turn you get to size 5; don't worry about unfinished warriors, when we whip the settler (if we decide to do so), the overflow will go to the warrior.



These are just my opinions. Its your turnset, so if you want to do something different, go for it ;) (within reason), especially if you have a good reason for it.


If you get confused, just upload the game at the state you are at and say you want people's opinions; we can all try to offer advice.

Tadaaaa !!! I've made it through. Here is the link: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm3/The_Flying_Vanillas_SG003_BC1120_01.Civ4SavedGame

Now I did screwup in one thing (Bad news first), i didnt ntice that the road to the quarry was inconplete, so I spent the worker efforts in other achieviments(spelling). But I set the worker in the last turn to do it. So I hope is not a big deal.

One other thing, Idont know how to get my turnset log, so please teachme so next time i will post it here.

(30 minutes later) Heck, I also dont know how to post the pictures, I know how to upload the file, all right, but how do i get the thing here??? Now that was frustating. Im just gonna write something, its real late(Brazil Time) and I have to go to work tomorrow(Brazil Work), my boss(Brazil Boss) is very touchy with my zombiesness(I just invented that word)

Here we go:

I moved the warrior te the west peninsula, found the barbarian, and Igor or Boris, I dont know which one, WON(YAY) the battle, so I got him moving slowly back toards our cities, so we can get it to scout the settler coming up.

For moscow, I did as Imaccul suggested, finished the warrior(The Police), fortified him there, and for the two population points I got, i focused in food and hammers, while I worked a workboat. When Moscow reached 5, i stops the workboat and started a settler, we are 6 turns away from the workboat.

For Morodeny, I did exaclty as instructed to do. Finished mine, worked othermine, got forests, finished lighthouse, started greatlighthouse.

In the mean while, I discovered Writing, and then went for agriculture, my reason for agrculture and not straight for alphabet, are obscure. I just know we gonna need that for farming other city sites, we are not gonna be able to get workboats. And we need a second source of growth. Barbarians will be getting in shortly, and so our ability to protect the coast will be poor. I started alphabet right after.

Afterthe workers completed their "destiny" I worked a VIA APIA betweend our two cities to get settlers going north more quick. And started a cottage in the grasslands/river northeast of moscow.

The other warrior is placed in Moredeny for policeman pourposes.

Thats it, sorry for the lack of pictures. I guess Ill be hearing from you tomorrow.

Laters

Just realzed, that the pictures are in a link below. Heck i dont understand this at all. Need a manual or something.

i just noticed that our research is set to 90%, we are getting +1 gold each turn and we have 30 gold.
shouldn't we set it to 100% untill out treasury goes down to 0 again? or do we want to save up cash for trade/upgrading?

Well for your 1st turnset you didn't screw things up too bad. I do have a few questions though.

1.Why did you set research to Agrculture? Sure we will need it but not right now. Our top priorities are now to get the great lighthouse finished and set a boat out to explore.

2.We didn't need a road to the quarry just yet since we don't need stone for anything.

3.It's Marodeny, not Morodeny. Sorry if this is a big deal but this is my city.:)

4.Did you rename Moscow? Appearently not. We need to have a bit of fun during the event. Maybe Immaculate should rename it since he founded it.

It doesn't matter too much right now. Should we whip the settler in Moscow? and where should it go? I think it should go to Copper City since we could lose that. We should set our research rate to 100% again for ALAP(As Long As Possible).

Mightygooga, if you want to upload pictures, I usually go to Tinypic, upload the pictures, select the hotlink in the forums and copy and paste, and then I get rid of the URL letters to fit in the forums. You can do anything you want though.

g_storrow is up.

Can we hold up on playing for a day? I want to try something with the next city's placement in world-builder.

And yes, i do think we should whip the settler as soon as the whip icon becomes available.






EDIT: I won't be able to do the world builder thing tonight (x-mas festivities and all that...), so i'll just describe my thoughts.

Its based on this dotmap:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/dotmap_2800.JPG

If we want to revise the dotmap, we could, possibly, build a city ON the gems to the northwest of Merodeny (in the corner between the light yellow, green, and purple city-sites).
If we did this, it would make for a slightly crowded map, but it would do a couple things.

Firstly, and perhaps most importantly, it would let our cities grow to size 5 (except the capital which could grow to size 6) because they would now have gems. Building a city automatically clears jungle on the underlying terrain, so we would be building on a grassland gems (one of the things i wanted to check with world-builder is what that provides the city tile in terms of benefits- extra hammer? extra commerce?- don't know). This would provide our empire with gems and therefore, with extra happiness.


Seconly, it would let us use useful tiles right away (instead of waiting for iron working (from trade after alphabet) because we could farm the grassland river tile to the south-east of it, and later, once Merodeny doesn't need its mines anymore, we could borrow a mine from Merodeny and use those hammers to help in the construction of a library. If we build on purple or green city sites, we don't really have a way to push hammers or food until after the library is done, this way, we have a more immediate solution to making the city viable. Since we researched agriculture, we might as well make the best of it.


Thirdly, once we have the library up, all we have to do is work the fish (with workboat) and it can support 2 scientists- so we would get our great scientist much earlier. So it works great as a short-term GPP factory (though our long-term one should still be the green city because of all the potential food).


Okay, so those are advantages. Here are some disadvantages.
Firstly, it has to share tiles with three other cities (it can use rice from green, mines from Merodeny, and fish from purple)(except maybe the rice from green- which we won't need until much later i think- unless we get a globe theatre in green fairly quick). Which means that once the empire is fairly large, all it will really be contributing is a few hammers and coastal tile commerce (but still, thats not too bad really- at least it can pay for itself with the commerce).


My opinion (without proper research).
For the foreseable future, this site is superior to the green site (which should still get built later on), because it can work superior tiles in the short term and gets us happiness.
As to whether it is superior to purple or not depends on whether you think copper or gems are more important to the empire.


Okay, i am just throwing this idea out there, we should discuss it properly before we decide on city placement.

I rather not. Building a city there will overlap many titles. We are going to be albe to get around without the gems for now. And as soons as we finish the great library, the culture borders will get there. So one thing we can do is have a road ready to mine those gems. We are going to need Iron Working, if we want to get our island populated, the whole north is coverd in jungle, the resources are too. Its my opinion only.

I already explained my reasons for agriculture. I didnt have a direction so I took a decision based in the fact that we wont be able to fully protect our coast so we need an extra source of food, for growing.

We desperatly need a new warrior also. We must let Igor and Boris, fogbusting. while Policemans Police for happyness.

Xmas will take a lot of my time also. Laterz..

Its worth noting that both Ghandi and Alex would allow open borders. Not sure if they've met each other though

firstly here is the world builder thing: (i played as persia cuz i set it to random but that shouldn't effect things)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/80711/Civ4ScreenShot0004.JPG
I put 4 gems. one with a city, one with a jungle, one with a mine and one with nothing. as you can see building the city on the gems will not give us the extra commerce :(.

Secondly if happiness becomes a big issue we can switch to buddhism (remember we got it from Ghandi) without waiting for him to ask us to do it (however, we will lose the +1 relations bonus). That will give us +1 happiness in Moscow.

Therefor i don't think building a city on the gems will be a good idea.

am I playing or waitng?

am I playing or waitng?

Do we know what we are doing or are we discussing? If we know what we are doing, then go for it.

But, i thought we were still in the process of discussing where to put the settler we are about to make. Also, we should discuss the relative merits of whipping the settler out vs. just building it.

I had a read of some SGOTM2 threads. The ones that did well discussed things a lot.

I thoguht we were doing the boat before teh seetler to get the bronze online

The bronze city should be our last city befre we declare war on someone. This could be either our 3rd or 4th city. If it is our 3rd, then that is where our settler will go. If it is our 4th, then we can afford to put another city up north. I do not think that it should be our 5th city or later.

g_storrow, yes you are up, but we need to discuss where our 3rd city goes. We also need to choose when we whip the settler to completion.

I think that we need 2 things:
1. A boat to explore the area
2. Some more warriors for defence

My main question is how many cities are we going to have before war? And with who? My vote goes to Alex, he is close and he is a threat.

I agree with you regarding about we dont need bronze until we war but what abotu if they start on us. I think being safe with the bronze is important so my vote goes with bronze 4th city. get the Next settler out with whipping the light green area see dot map but then get a boat our for exploring and warrirso for protection.
Any ideas what tech we go for after alphabet?

Guys, unfortunatly I will be away for the next 2-3 weeks. I am going on a holiday with little to no internet access and no way to play a turnset, so just set me to autoskip until i get back OK.

You are right g_storrow, Alex could launch a suprise attack(I really doubt Ghandi will), but he might pillage our fishing boats since we have no galleys. Can someone check the power graph?

Techs for after alphabet.

I would suggest trying to backfill as best as possible, but there are really three routes that i think would be good.
a) Iron working and Compass (my first choice). This is because we need Iron-Working to chop jungle and hook up nice bag-o'-money gem tiles to our cities/civs. Each gem tile works like a fully grown cottage with a hammer added to it. Thats a lot of money very early in the game. Compass will greatly increase our commerce income when combined with the great ligthouse (remember that harbors are half price for us- so our harbours are triple normal strength (because of great lighthouse) and half price. Kind of worth gunnin' for. I think that between the gem tiles, and the cheap harbours, we can easily keep building settlers to take our entire island and even start a war without worrying too much about our economy- we might need to slow down after 7-9 cities to wait for courthouses and more cottages, but 7-9 is way more then 3-4. More cities, earlier, is good.
b) Code-of-Laws (second choice- courthouses=good). This not only gets us courthouses, but also opens the way for a popped scientist to get us philosophy. If we run pacifism from philosophy we can get great-people twice as fast. And who knows? If the civ that builds the oracle doesn't choose Code-Of-Laws, we might just get confucionism
c) Literature and Music (or Literature, Drama, and Music) (third choice, it would be second choice if it wasn't for lack of marble). Literature opens up the opportunity for the great library (but no marble- yet.... ), and Music gets us a great artist. If we find a civ without too much culture on our borders (like Alexander) we could try to pop a city with a culture-bomb. If we sneak Drama in there, we can still pop Philosophy from meditation and drama instead of meditation and code-of-laws.

Or combination (like code of laws, then literature, and music)

I really think 3rd city should be Bronze. Look ate that spot over there. Its a nice place for growing, the city will be up and running in about 25 turns, if we use the work boat to wark the sea resources it will get running even faster.

Plus, we will bust a whole bunch of fog, protectiong ourselves from barbarians

The Bronze Tittle gives a lot of hammers when worked, we can put that city to imediatly start on a workboat for exploration.

Whose turn is ti anyway?

Roster:
Immaculate (played to 1900BC)
marowaker (played to 1600BC, now on auto-skip)
Prominence (up now)
Mightygooga
g_storrow
pavelthesecond

Placement of third city:
Immaculate: copper
marowaker: depends on when we plan war- early war- copper, late war- light green
Prominence: needs to provide opinion (unless i missed it)
Mightygooga: copper site
g_storrow: GPP site (light green)
pavelthesecond: needs to provide opinion (unless i missed it)

I voted to send the settler to the copper site. I know that this is rather useless until it pops borders, but the light green site is also. I really didn't know which one i wanted for a long, long time, but i finally made up my mind. Here is what drove me. Neither one is useful until we build a culture-producing structure and a workboat, but once you do, one (GPP- light green spot) needs to wait for iron-working in addition (which may be available, but also may not)- thus making it a longer term investment and the other one gets us instant production. We can work the fish, the copper tile, and two scientists (i think) and still support a size 4 stagnant population. This gives us a badly-needed production city while also fufilling our short-term GPP needs. We can start putting out an army from this city, whereas the GPP city is mostly just for GPP. the downside is that it may take longer to get a library and scientists up at this site then at the green GPP site, but the hammers are more important at this stage of the game anyway (i believe).

Moscow
In Moscow, in regards to whipping. I think we should whip the settler as soon as the option becomes available, then finish the workboat and start on a warrior and a galley. This means that a warrior escort should be on its way ASAP- to bust fog and to protect the settler. The workboat should head out and look for other nations. Once the galley is done, it ferries a settler/warrior across the straits to the copper site, then it could very well head out also (otherwise it can ferry our army to Alex's shores perhaps).

Merodeny
Keep working high-hammer tiles to finish the great lighthouse.

Foreign Relationships:
a) We should sign open borders with Ghandi and with Alexander so we can trade through their waters once we get the great lighthouse up (this will significantly increase our income- especially if we have many cities) and will let us use their coastal tiles to contact other civilizations.
b) We should encourage civilizations that are near to us to build wonders (and not armies). One way to do that is to provide them with our stone (as long as we aren't needing it for our own wonder). This does two things: 1) they don't spend hammers on an army making them easier to conquer and 2) they might complete the wonder, in which case a civilization near to us has the wonder and we can steal it from them when we conquer them- better a local power then some distant foreign power that we can't easily conquer.

Research:
Pavel is right. We should maximize our research rate while we go for alphabet.

LASTLY:
Is there other decisions we should be discusing at this point, or should we get one more turn in to see what develops first? For now, we mostly just need to determine if we whip the settler in Moscow and where we put it. Also, are people in argeement about finishing the workboat in the build queue to send it out exploring?

I thought it was my go.

I will change my vote to the bronze city. I only voted for the light green cos I thought that was the consensus.

If we go with the bronze city we need to build the galley first.

I think we dont whip the settler, I am unsure regarding chopping, to keep going towards alphabet.

I thought it was my go.



Well, could you please post a roster then. I am confused. Whoevers go it is should go soon enough.

i also thought it was g_storrow's turn cuz i remember it being my turn after 1 person.

i will go with the majority and vote for the copper location. (mainly cuz we will need to chop the jungle before we can utilize the green city location and that will take time)

do we have a worrior on fog busting duty?
why can't we just send the settler on foot? it will take 16 turns worst case (moving one square a turn) that is still faster then waiting for a galley. plus if we have a worrior fog busting we can use him as escort so we don't have to wait for moscow to build a warrior.

Sounds good. In that case, i think we should take advantage of the granery and whip 2 pop for the settler. Build workboat/warrior while regrowing and keeping building settlers to get this island settled. Once we got that taken care of, we can start on an army.

Yes?

Turn 97 (1090 BC)
Warrior defeats (0.80/2): Barbarian Archer
30 turns to alphabet. Cant whip yet.

Turn 98 (1060 BC)
Igor (Warrior) promoted: Woodsman I
Moscow finishes: Settler
Marodeny grows: 4
whip settler . Gandhi asks for open borders we agree.
turn 4: marodeny goes to 4. I change it so we work mine square. GL in 17turns, increase in size a few more than that, good news.

Turn 99 (1030 BC)
Moscow begins: Warrior
Go for warrior rather than workboat as worried about defense.
Turn 100 (1000 BC)
Nothing
Turn 101 (985 BC)
Moscow grows: 4

Turn 102 (970 BC)
picture of moscow. change it roudn so using cottages and plains wood/spice.
(see attachment)
Turn 103 (955 BC)
Moscow finishes: Warrior
igor is going ahead of settler. we see barbarian archer oh dear.

Turn 104 (940 BC)
change moscow again. probably a bad idea as change to use sea tile so we dont increase to soon instead of plains cottage. On recollectinon this was a stupid idea. I didnt want to have an angry citizen but it doesnt matter as cottage would have been increasing.
Turn 105 (925 BC)

Turn 106 (910 BC)
Warrior defeats (1.28/2): Barbarian Archer
The archer takes a hammering from Igor.

Turn 107 (895 BC)

Turn 108 (880 BC)

Turn 109 (865 BC)

Turn 110 (850 BC)
St. Petersburg founded
Bronzetown begins: Library

I thought library would be a good idea but it doesnt have any hammers yet. To increase borders.
Moscow nearly finished workboat, mardony nearly finished GL, we can haveOB with alexander but I decided against it for some reason. Alphabet 12 turns. My turns not bad but should have worked flood plains cottage instead of sea tile as 1 angry citizen for 5 turns doesnt make any difference. Workers didnt realy do much apart from complete road I should have created another cottage or 2.

Turns look good g_starrow.

Some thoughts:


build barracks in the Great Lighthouse city after building the great lighthouse so we can start putting out veteran axemen after the development of our copper mine?
cottage the plains tile near Moscow (below the grassland hill's mine) for commmerce and a hammer when there is too much food in Moscow (ie: between whip unhappiness)
do we want to continue expanding peacefully on our island for now while we get the copper and some barracks on-line? If so, where should we put our next city?
what are people's thoughts for techs after alphabet. We don't know too many other civs yet (that might change when we get the exploratory workboat in the water hopefully), so we'll have to see what tech trading can do for us.
can the next player take a screenshot of the financial advisor's screen before and after the great lighthouse?

kk, just letting you guys know I'm alive and well (now) and back from winter vacation. I can play in the next rotation.

Roster:
Immaculate
marowaker
Prominence
Mightygooga
g_storrow (played to 850BC)
pavelthesecond (up now)

I played 15turns (really 14or 13) as I counted the turn when I took over as the first and 850BC as teh last when it was the 15th i didnt press enter)

I think it will be a while before the bronze is hooked up as we need to build a library in their first or an obelisk (which I am not a big fan of). Currently it is only working a plains tile with no improvement.

It might be a good idea to send the worker there without build the road so it can build a few cottages. I suppsoe we need Ironworking for this city espically.

i played for 9 turns so far. Lots of stuff is happening now so i thought i'll make a post on my progress and get some advice.
here are our finances before and after the great lighthouse:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/80711/Civ4ScreenShot0008.JPG
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/80711/Civ4ScreenShot0010.JPG

here is what the workboat explored:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/80711/Civ4ScreenShot0011.JPG

Mao is on the same island as Alex. that means a: its prabably a fairly large island and b: we can easilly take out Mao after Alex :sniper:.

i have just researched Alphabet and have traded for Animal Husbandry and Mystesism. What should we research next? I sugest iron working cuz a: other civs don't have it yet and b: we need it to cut jungle.

During the next few turns, should i trade away alphabet (assuming that is the only tech i can trade) or is it too valuable for now?

i will finish my turn set some time tommoro or friday.

I am not sure about trading away alphabet... For now i would hold off until we know some more civilizations.

Also, i am pro iron-working. For all we know, we could have iron on a site already mined, thus allowing us to start an army faster.
I suggest iron-working, then compass (might as well use our traits as best as we can). Compass will let us build 1/2 price harbours for health but mostly to increase our great lighthouse income.

We should try to get a scout (ie workboat or galley) out into Indian territory and going west (circumnavigation and more contacts).

Hello Guys, Im back from my trip. I have read the whole thing and it looks pretty tight.

I think I was skkiped or something I dont know, it doesnt matter any away.

I guess for now we should go for Iron Working, and have a scout go look up the indian coas for more enemies and info.

We should talk about trade: What are we going to do, are we trading like crazy or we´ll just trade what we need immediatly. I think it should be discussed.

I guess the worker should go to bronze city by any means and help develop the city. I ALSO thing we should get the workboat back and work the resource near it so we can grow faster. That city will be producing axes real soon.

Laters.

I am also not sure regarding alphabet. I think unless we can get IW then we keep it for now. I reckon we research IW.

Mightytgooga: I doubt that "bronzetown" has enough culture to work either the fish or the bronze at the moment. But we I think we shoudl combine the return of the workboat with the culture expand. Whether to bring it back to look the other way (i.e. Indian way) I couldnt possibly comment.

I think the main aims shoudl be choppping jungle and exploring to make use of alphabet.


Pavel: how did you put the pictures in teh middle of the post. I tried inserting one and it seemed like I had to have the picture on the internet somewhere. So I attached it and it put it on the end as an thumbnail.
If I have it correctly you uploaded without attaching it. How??? Then inserted it?

Upload the image (its should say where you put it) then type:

[ i m g ] name of file [ / i m g ] but without spaces.

About the workboat.
I think making contacts is much more important then getting the workboat back. I say send it out and until we know everyone, don't bring it back. We can build more workboats but meeting civs is indispensible.
More civs=more trading partners
more civs=more diplomatic opportunities
more civs=more info on who got what wonders
more civs=cheaper tech costs for us (you get a discout if someone else already researched that tech and you get a much bigger discount if many did)

Here are some of my thoughts on this game:
bronzetown: I know it has lots of production potential, but its also probably going ot the be first town able to run and support two scientist specialists. We should make use of that to grab philosophy. Philosophy requires either drama or code-of-laws in addition to meditation. We should time the research of these techs with the GPP generation of a great scientist in Bronze town. This may mean that we grab Iron working and start directly on drama (prior to compas) so that we are ready for the great scientist. Once Pavel's done his turn, we can have a look at the saved file and start making those decisions and timing Great Scientist arrival.


In the meantime,we REX the rest our little island and start researching towards construction to get catapults. Then we start taking out our enemies. Many of the cities we can put up will be able to work a gem tile right away. Between the gem tile and the great-lighthouse trade-route boost, we can afford each city we put up immediately even without couthouses and currrency. Lets make use of that and REX early.

finished my turns. here is a log

Turn 111 (835 BC)
Moscow finishes: Work Boat

Turn 112 (820 BC)
Moscow begins: Settler

Turn 113 (805 BC)

Turn 114 (790 BC)
Buddhism has spread: Bronzetown
forgot to mention this in the last post. this is good news cuz bronztown's culture is now increasing by 1 a turn.

Turn 115 (775 BC)
Marodeny finishes: The Great Lighthouse

Turn 116 (760 BC)
Marodeny begins: Barracks

Turn 117 (745 BC)

Turn 118 (730 BC)
Tech learned: Alphabet
Marodeny's borders expand

Turn 119 (715 BC)
Research begun: Iron Working
Contact made: Chinese Empire
Tech learned: Mysticism
Tech learned: Animal Husbandry

Turn 119 (715 BC)

Turn 120 (700 BC)

Turn 121 (685 BC)

Turn 122 (670 BC)
Contact made: Malinese Empire

Turn 123 (655 BC)
Contact made: Incan Empire

Turn 124 (640 BC)

when i traded for AH we discovered horses just south of bronztown
i sent a worker to bronztown. sugest we first improve horses, then bronz, then the gems in the jungle.

Moscow is going to finish a settler next turn, and Marodeny is going to finish barracks next turn. I think Moscow should build a galley next (and send it to explore india). Marodeny should build another settler (while we connect bronz and horses) and then start pumping out axeman.

If our island doesn't contain iron, it might be a good idea to research horseback riding and build an army of horse archers instead of axeman. what do you think? (a long term advantage is that we could upgrade them to cossacks)

in turms of tech trading, i think we need to trade all techs ASAP. except for important ones that nobody else has like aphabet.

If i am correct, its me next right?

Does anyone want to discuss anything before i play?

I.

I am fine most of the discussion was done near the end Pavels turn. I think it still applies.

Who is in charge of this ramshackle?:D

Can somebody please post the roester again? Im lost here.

tks

Team leader:

Marowaker is team leader.

I am fine with the job then, anyone have any objections?

Roster:
Roster:
Immaculate
marowaker
Prominence
Mightygooga
g_storrow (played to 850BC)
pavelthesecond (up now)
And then Pavel played to ~650BC.

Pre-turn (turn 124):

Diplomacy
Firstly, I examined the diplomatic situation. The only possibility of a problem at this point is if we are asked to not trade with either the Inca by Mali or with the Milanese by the Inca. At this point we do not have trades with either of them, so that shouldn’t be a problem

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/SGOTM3_3_-01.JPG

In terms of tech-trading, we could pick up Meditation and Archery at this point, but they will come cheap anyway as we meet and trade with more civilizations.

Micro-Management
Marodeny is set to ‘avoid growth’ and is wasting food. We can either grow it to size 5 and whip for three population points, or we can stop working the clams and work a food-negative tile. For now, I set it to work the plains cottage north of Moscow. This means that later, when Moscow goes back to working this tile, it will have grown beyond a cottage. I am not sure if this is better then a 3 pop whip, I may still change my mind.

Workers
I don’t know why Sasha is building a cottage for Marodeny. I thought this was going to be our production city. Since there is only 1 turn left, I let him continue for now even though we will probably build a watermill there later.

625 (turn 125):
Oh my goodness. Its 625BC and someone just founded Confucianism. This seems very early.

Moscow completes its settler and starts on a workboat for Bronze-town. Because of the Buddhist influence, this city will grow much faster then it otherwise would. We caught a lucky break on Buddhism spreading to this city.

Marodeny finishes the barracks and starts a warrior to escort our newly built settler.

595 (turn 127):
We meet Julius Caesar who has met Alexander and Mao. He is ‘cautious’ towards both of them.
We also meet Frederick of the Germans who is ‘annoyed’ towards the Inca. On the turn we meet him we trade writing for meditation. This immediately provides a +4 to our diplomatic relations for fair trades without incurring any penalties with the Inca (it would have if they had a negative relationship with the Inca but the rating was positive so it was okay).

Marodeny completes a warrior and starts on a workboat to travel and explore westwards.

580 (turn 128):
We trade Mansu animal handling and meditation for polytheism.

We also found our fourth city and I immediately set it to build a library so it can act as a proper GPP pump later in the game.

565 (turn 129):
Moscow has built a workboat. We start a galley so we can ferry troops around.

A rather delicate diplomatic situation has arisen.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/SGOTM3_3_-02.JPG

The Inca have demanded alphabet. This would ruin our monopoly and would effectively put us in bed with the Inca and whoever founded Confucianism while separating us from Mansu (his worse enemy is the Inca) and Frederick (still not a friend of the Inca). I agonize over this for awhile and finally decide to reject him. So, we now have an enemy. He is annoyed with us. Seeing as he is now our enemy, lets make the Milanese enemies of the Inca too. I sign open borders with the Milanese in the hopes that the Milanese incur ‘you have traded with our worse enemies’ with the Inca as a result of trading with us.
Finally, I trade meditation for the last two turns of iron working with the Greeks. They aren’t in a position to really abuse meditation but we really need iron-working.
Here’s a screenshot of our new town, just to the north of our empire’s iron.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/SGOTM3_3_-03.JPG

So, that brings us to the question of what we want to research next. I stop here so we can discuss it.

We can also pick up priesthood and archery at any time in exchange for polytheism to several of the rival civs.

Diplomatically, it looks like the Inca are getting shut-out.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/SGOTM3_3_-04.JPG

Since all are ‘annoyed’ with him (including Frederick who is at +1), I sign open borders with all his enemies. Our excellent relations with the Malanese led me to ask if they could ‘spare for a good friend’ organized religion, but that was pressing him too hard.

Anyway, so there’s our empire at this cross-roads. There hasn’t been a really huge amount of discussion in this thread. We need to discuss our decisions to make full use of the format. This is the point when our empire is ready to really jump. We can expand rapidly. We will soon have copper and that will let us build an army and we have the economic backbone (courtesy of the great lighthouse) to do so, so how are we going to do this?

By the way, here’s an example of how the great lighthouse is letting us expand at such a high rate. I am such a huge fan of this wonder, it really can’t be overstated. On island maps you can basically treat it as an extra courthouse during that crucial early expansion phase. Once we settle six cities and start working gems, with our great lighthouse, we should be making some pretty nice coin.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/SGOTM3_3_-05.JPG

Notice that Bronzetown is bringing in one commerce locally but 6 from foreign trade routes (instead of 2 it would bring in without the great lighthouse). That means that its commerce production has more then doubled, which means we can expand approximately twice as much as we would otherwise.

So, speaking of expansion, here’s a look at our island. You’ll notice that its barb-busted now. We just have to make sure other civs don’t settle on it (remember, in this game we can’t raze cities)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/SGOTM3_3_-06.JPG

I think that Moscow should grow to size 5 and start, then whip a settler. Marodeny should build the exploratory workboat, then start on a settler. Once these two settler are completed, we will have six cities on our island I think Bronzetown should start life as a GPP city (build a library and work two scientists) to get a great scientist out fast, while St. Petersburg should be a permanent GPP city. Once bronzetown is done with its library, it can start a barracks and an army. Once the scientist is born (fast for a philosophical civ like us), it can focus on production and building our army full-time (along with Marodeny).

Techs:
Right now I am tempted to either follow drama to allow us to light bulb philosophy or we could research mathematics so we can access construction, a very valuable warring tech.

So, those are my thoughts. I’ll finish my turns once we discuss what (tech) path we want to take.

Drama does seem quite nice and maybe music as well for the great person.

I prefer the mathamatics route then we can choose calendar, currency or construction. But thinking more of this I know AI like to research this path so we could try and trade for it.

Why do we want philosophy in the first place? To run pathasim, build the ankwhor what?

My first choice would be maths but I could be persuaded for drama. I quite like music as well for the free GA.
Your confusedly George
ps.
Are we allowed to download the save and have a look for ourselves?

Drama does seem quite nice and maybe music as well for the great person.

I prefer the mathamatics route then we can choose calendar, currency or construction. But thinking more of this I know AI like to research this path so we could try and trade for it.

Why do we want philosophy in the first place? To run pathasim, build the ankwhor what?

My first choice would be maths but I could be persuaded for drama. I quite like music as well for the free GA.
Your confusedly George
ps.
Are we allowed to download the save and have a look for ourselves?

Philosophy (two reasons)

Firstly, the reason i usually think its worth light-bulbing philosophy early is that if you switch to pacifism (depending on religious state of empire and diplomatic state of religious landscape) you can effectively double your great-person production afterwards. We are a philosophical civilization so we will be getting (hopefully) a signficant portion of our research (at least in the early years) from great scientist light-bulbing. By using this technique we can ensure we are the first to liberalism and are in a good position to complete a spaceship first (or get to mass media for a diplomatic victory).
Philosophical civs basically are crying to run pacifism in my opinion, but, of course, this is open to debate.
Secondly, by getting philosophy early you create a sort of 'bottleneck' for rival civs on their way to liberalism. They are much less likely to research philosophy if 'Taoism' has already been taken. If we can prevent other civs from researching philosophy, thats that many more turns before we have to worry about them researching both philosophy and education on their way to liberalism

Maybe we shouldn't be focusing on it so much though. What do others think?

Techs:
yeah, music would be nice for the free great artist. We could (as an example) take greek cities and pop it in of those to try and flip a chinese city. I have no idea if this is feasable or not. Whether we choose to go the construction route or not will pretty much determine when we can start building our army and preparing for war.

The Save:
yeah, i'll upload the save tonight. I guess i should have done that yesterday. My bad.


I.

K, i uploaded the save so you can have a look. The graph looks very interesting. We are suddenly doing pretty darn good (second place behind CFR) if i am reading it correctly.

I.

Roster:
Immaculate(just played)
marowaker (up now)
Prominence
Mightygooga
g_storrow
pavelthesecond

I am a little concerned as marowaker hasn't had any activity on civfanatics since dec 26. I hope he is alright.

Philosophy (two reasons)

Firstly, the reason i usually think its worth light-bulbing philosophy early is that if you switch to pacifism (depending on religious state of empire and diplomatic state of religious landscape) you can effectively double your great-person production afterwards. We are a philosophical civilization so we will be getting (hopefully) a signficant portion of our research (at least in the early years) from great scientist light-bulbing. By using this technique we can ensure we are the first to liberalism and are in a good position to complete a spaceship first (or get to mass media for a diplomatic victory).
Philosophical civs basically are crying to run pacifism in my opinion, but, of course, this is open to debate.
Secondly, by getting philosophy early you create a sort of 'bottleneck' for rival civs on their way to liberalism. They are much less likely to research philosophy if 'Taoism' has already been taken. If we can prevent other civs from researching philosophy, thats that many more turns before we have to worry about them researching both philosophy and education on their way to liberalism


This seems very good.
I only have a couple of concerns/questions. Do we run with Taoism and spread it to all our cities. And then do we try and make other civs who we want to be friends with and kick the ass of everyone we don't.
Having a look at the screenshots. It looks like Alex and Mao still dont have a religeon so we coudl give it them be mates. This would make Gandhi the firsst target which woudl be good as he is always weak military. (Like this idea!)

Do we run with buddhism as our religion spread it to all our cities? If we do this it would be good idea to kick gandhi ass soon afterwards or at least take his buddhism founding city off him so we don't supply him with a lot of gold. And save a GP of ours.

I problem with taking a religeon is everyone else starts not to like you and maybe not trade with us. This is my main concern but is slightly tempered by my Taoism spreading idea.

If you think that is not too much of a distractor then we should go for it.

Is everyone else alright? As the discussion is mainly between me and Immaculate.

Well, since its mostly us, i want to ask your opinion of something.

I usually play Emperor these days and i was playing a single-player game the other night as Saladin and in about 300BC some screw-ball went and light-bulbed philosophy ahead of me and beat me to Taoism. Now, this very rarely happens in emperor games, let alone monarch games, but the circumstances in this game may relate to our SGOTM. In that nights game, this happened because it was a map a bit like this one (long skinny fractual continents instead of archipelego- but none-the-less) and i got alphabet first (and code of laws from the oracle). So i traded code-of-laws around quite a bit to get other civ's techs and managed to be about 4 turns from popping a great scientist when the Inca went and did it for me.

It seems that if the rival civs can light-bulb philosophy, then they will (but won't if they don't get Taoism from it). And in this game, we know that someone out there has code-of-laws which means all they have to do to get philosophy is have meditation (they may already) and pop a scientist. I ask people in the strategy forum about this.

So.... having said that... popping philosophy in this game may be a bit of a gamble. I doubt more then one civ has code-of-laws yet, but we don't know who it is and we don't know if they have meditation or not.

So, all to say, this is a gamble... but potentially worth it (in my opinion) because of the pay-off involved (getting Taoism).

And the more i thought about it, the more i thought that we aren't going to go to war quite yet, we can afford to build some melee units before we start building catapults, we better start on drama (or code-of-laws- see below) right away (and get scientist working ASAP).

Thats my thinking. What do you think? We do drama (or code-of-laws), then we move towards either literature and music, or just music or mathematics and construction.

Lastly, and sorry to confuse the issue, we don't have to go straight to drama to get philosophy, we can also go through code-of-laws and use code-of-laws as trade bait to get us mathematics (we wouldn't be able to trade drama because we don't want to trade alphabet). Code of laws also lets us build courthouses, something that has much more value then theatres. Anyway, what are your thoughts?

Here's a link to the thread i mentioned i would start in the above post.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=4972717#post4972717


I still got about 4 turns left on my turn; i just wanted people's opinion before i choose the next tech. If i don't hear from anyone else, i'm just going to go with drama or code-of-laws and finish up my turn. I hope thats cool.

EDIT: Sorry- yeah- G_starrow wants math. I guess we are at an inpasse (spelling?)

EDIT2: About the diplomacy aspect. Early on, we can just choose who we want as a long-term ally and get them in the Taoism boat (if we do try for early philosophy). We can't be friends with everyone so we sort of have to choose our allies and make sure they are allies with each other too. But you are right G_starrow, we'll need to convert a few civs to our 'way'. But, if we don't run a religion, we loose out on early tech bursts (we'll still get lots, but we should be able to lightbulb philosophy, paper (maybe), and education (probably) and get liberalism first. I figure we might as wel use our philosophical trait as much as possible early on to get a nice lead before we start having to use cottages mostly.

No you have convinced me and I convinced myself that we shoudl go for philosophy.

Okay, then i will set research to code-of-laws. I think code-of-laws is better for us then drama because then we can trade code-of-laws for techs like math and maybe construction, or calendar, maybe compass. I'll play tonight and post ASAP.

So, to return to the game after much (haha- where IS everyone?) discussion, I have decided to pursue code-of-laws. It was between this and drama. They both let us light-bulb philosophy but because code-of-laws doesn’t need alphabet to be accessed, we can trade it out for other techs without breaking our trading monopoly (for that much longer anyway).

So… first thing, I dial up Frederick and trade him polytheism for priesthood to allow us to pursue code-of-laws which I do.

550 (turn 130):

Marodeny completes it exploratory workboat and starts on a settler. The sooner we have our island settled, the sooner we can start mining gems and expanding through other means.

We also find Monty this turn. Unfortunately, it looks like Frederick is his worst enemy and we have a -4 diplomatic relationship with him for trading with his worst enemy. He says, “Frederick is a petty criminal masquerading as a world leader”. Those are some pretty tough words for a guy with feathers on his head. He obviously won’t sign open borders with us.

520 (turn 132):

Buddhism spreads by itself to Marodeny.

505 (turn 133):

Julius Caesar demands alphabet. Why can’t they demand something else? I said no but hated to do it. Hopefully he’ll demand something else that we CAN give him later on to offset this diplomatic penalty.

475 (turn 135):

Moscow would have grown to unhappiness so I stopped its growth by starting a settler. Once the whip unhappiness wears off (should be 5 turns- you have to check manually by looking inside the city each turn), let it go back to building a galley for one turn, then when it grows to size five, keep building the settler. As soon as the settler can be whipped, whip it, whip it good :culture: There is a chop coming in on Moscow that MUST go to the settler.

Overview/Thoughts


Bronzetown almost has its bronze hooked up. The mine is ½ done and we just need a road. Bronzetown, should probably work the horses and copper and fish once it gets to size 3 to assist it in building the library. Once that’s done, it needs to assign two scientist specialist immediately. This is important. We need a great scientist pronto! If we assign two scientist we get 12GPP/turn. So we need to keep at it for 13 turns to get philosophy first.
Marodeny can probably build a worker after the settler is complete then start cranking out axemen.

Our long-tem GPP city is struggling along with its library awaiting border expansion so that it can work the fish, cattle, and rice.

Moscow should complete its settler as outlined above (whip as soon as its possible- should be possible shortly after the chop comes in). Then maybe go back to building a galley. We will need a few for our naval invasions and it may be worth looking at what is bordering our island to the north as well.

Our exploratory workboats are heading east and west and seem to be fulfilling their function so far.

Diplomatically, it may be worth investing in both Julius and Monty (leave the Inca for everyone to hate). We could gift them the fist and stone (Rome should get stone in case they end up building a wonder for us, not Monty). But trading with Monty will incur negative penalties with Frederick. I don’t know. Its something we need to discuss.

Our plan seems to be coming along nicely. We need about 3-4 more workers to clear all that jungle, but for now, its going okay.

I must say that i like that we can afford 6 cities at this stage of the game. Soon we will have many cottages and that will be good.

Later, once the galley is complete, we may need to look around at potential take-over spots for high-hammer cities. Production may be a problem in this game.


I'll upload the save right away. I think the graph may level off a bit, but it will jump again when we start building our axemen as well as settle the rest of our island.

can you/the next player post a screenshot of the glance/relations page and a world view with the culture filter.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/culture_world_view.JPG


http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/diplomacy_in_475BC_russia.JPG

EDIT: Whoever is next is free to remove the tags on the cities; i use them to make reminders to myself. maybe they annoy others

I am a little concerned as marowaker hasn't had any activity on civfanatics since dec 26. I hope he is alright.


Ahem.. In my last post in this thread (which is halfway through page 8 if you want to look at it.) I clearly said I would be away. However, i am back.:woohoo: :clap: .

I hae A LOT to look at. I see we have met a few more neighbours than last time due to exploration, have the great lighthouse:) and are working on a SP. I presume we are going for a philosophy slingshot via code-of-laws and using pasifism + grt library for specialist economy while taking out someone (alex?). My future idea's are we do pasifism and take out someone for great lighthouse to shine.

either way, is it my go?

Ahem.. In my last post in this thread (which is halfway through page 8 if you want to look at it.) I clearly said I would be away. However, i am back.:woohoo: :clap: .

I hae A LOT to look at. I see we have met a few more neighbours than last time due to exploration, have the great lighthouse:) and are working on a SP. I presume we are going for a philosophy slingshot via code-of-laws and using pasifism + grt library for specialist economy while taking out someone (alex?). My future idea's are we do pasifism and take out someone for great lighthouse to shine.

either way, is it my go?

Sorry, i guess i forgot to notice that you had written that you would be away. I hope that for your sake you were on vacation and had a great time. I believe it is your turn yes.

What is an 'SP'? Settler production?

In terms of a cottage vs. specialist economy- i think we are best running a short term GP farm and a longer term GP farm but to otherwise work cottages. The two new cities that haven't been put up yet (marked commerce on the map in the post two above) and the capital should be cottage cities (in my opinion) whereas Bronze-town and Marodeny can be mostly production (sometimes specialists depending on needs) and our GPP town can be our primary GPP generator. These are my thoughts and are, of course, open to discussion.

So yeah, its your turn. Two notes:
You'll have to find a way around Monty's territory with the eastern scouting fishing boat 'cause he won't sign open borders.
Secondly, don't forget to check Moscow to make sure you can let it grow one size when it will no longer be unhappy. I know i mentioned it above, but its maybe worth repeating anyway.

Marowalker? Do you need a skip? Prominence- are you around?

Who is still available to play this game? If you are still interesting in playing, please post. Otherwise, i think we should shorten the roster so we can get this game moving.

I am as you know.

I was about to post like you have.

Mostly i am worried about Marowalker who was here earlier but who's turn it is and from whom we have not heard anything recently (but then maybe he's just putting A LOT of thought into his turn or something) and Prominence who we haven't heard from since December 18th (when he asked for a skip). Pavel always seems to show up for his turn though, so i am not too worried about him.

Sorry for the delay, I was on vacation and i still have a lot to do so can you skip me for this round? It's just that I am so busy and i only just got back...

Prominence you are up. If you don't post a got-it by January 20th, we will proceed without you. Once you have posted a got-it however, feel free to take your time with it and play carefully. We just want to know that SOMEONE is playing.
Otherwise we will continue along the roster
Immaculate (just played)
marowaker (skipped)
Prominence (up now)
Mightygooga
g_storrow
pavelthesecond

I just checked prominence, his last activity was Jan 11th.

Just sent him a PM just in case he doesn't check this thread regularly?

Its the 20th, and no show from Prominence. G_starrow: have you heard anything from him via PM? If not, i think Mightygooga should try to take the game.
Mighty, before you play, read the last few posts. You'll need to really micro-manage moscow (regarding happiness and whipping) and Bronze-town so we can get our scientist out as quick as possible. Also, make sure the chopped woods go to the settler and not the galley.

You'll see what i mean in the save game.

I'm going to go bake some bread and fill my flat with that wonderful yummy smell.

no reply.

you are up mighty googa

All right Guys,

I got the save. I will need a couple of days to do this, i got a lot of stuff going on here. So I´ll keep you guys posted. And later on today I will post what are my plans for my turn, so you guys can comment. Obviusly I will be following the discussions.

Laterz

Sounds Good Googa. I am happy as long as SOMEONE is playing.

Things we need to do:

send out boats east and west. There is a workboat in roman territory- keep it heading west. There is a boat east of German territory and south of Aztec territory- keep it going east.
get out the two settlers. one is going to be built in Marodeny; just build that normally. One is being built in Moscow. It needs to be whipped ASAP. The thing is, Moscow already has whip unhappiness and is stuck at size 4 (i think?), but is one turn away from growing. So as soon as the whip unhappines wears off, switch to a galley (its already in queue) and let it grow to five (or whatever it is) and then back to the settler. There is also a worker near Moscow that is building a cottage on a forest tile. Let it keep doing that but make sure the forest chop feeds the settler and not the galley. The other thing is, you may be able to whip before the whip unhappiness wears off. If this happens, go for it. Get that settler out as fast as possible.
Workers. We need workers. Marodeny should work on a worker after it builds a settler.
great people. Our GPP farm and Bronze town should build libraries, grow to size three and work fish and two scientists. The earlier we start, the earlier we finish and can get philosophy. The GPP farm needs farms and pastures and workboat.
New towns need border expansions to operate properly so when they are founded build something (library or obelisk- your choice) that generates culture. Start cottaging the tiles around them.
Research. Finish up code-of-laws (to open up philosophy for us). What were we going to research after that again? I forget.


Anyway, thats what i can remember. Others maybe realize i forgot something maybe.... i don't know.

Sorry, Im delayed. Im playing tonight tomorow I´ll post. Sorry I hate my personal life for interfirin with CIVING. I´ll be back.

OK guys, i am back for good and i can now play. I have also had a look at the game. It has really developed since i last played the game. But we have to wait for Mightygoogna to finish before I can give everyone my thoughts.

By the way Immaculate, how do you get the glance and info tabs on the foriegn advisor screen?

@marowaker:
You can see an advanced diplomacy options screen by turning on that option withing the HOF tabs. These can be found under the options menu when you push 'esc' botton.
Hope this helps.

Ok I have uploaded the file. There wont be any pictures this time. Sorry. Heres the play:

I kept exploring with the two workboats, the two things happend while i was at it. Romans canceled the open border deals, that menas we are stuck there. Secondly, I've reached a dead end in the eastern sea.

The worst thing was that the english Founded a city in our second coomerce spot. That sucked. I didny weep any settler but produced two. One i found the first comerce city, which is now called Brazilions. I renamed St Petersbur to Jungle Land also.

We discover philosophy and I started on mathematics.

Bronzetown fineshed the library, started a Axeman, for fighting off the english. Morodeny after producing a new workboat, is now producing a galey.

Workers are working gems spots, couse Morodeny is unhappy. Moscow just finished the second settler. I leave to you guys to found or wait till we destry Cantebury.

Thats it for now. I promess to come up with better updates and pictures next time.

Laterz

The English city on our spot could make them the first target. However, we have more aggressive neighbours nearby and they could be more important to deal with. A few things stuck out when i looked at the save.

We are No.2 on the Gold rating:crazyeye: Victor is No.1
We are last on power(obviously)
We have a few tech trades we could do with everyone
There is iron to hook up(low priority)

Maybe there are a few others out there that i can't think of now.

By the way, does it bother anyone that I play this round? I can redo my skipped turn and get a feel for this game (The last time i played was when we met Alex). Also lets do 15 turns a player from now on. Any objections?

You might as well play then.

What are our plans?

In my opinion, we should either push to reclaim our land (war) or just push to get up some infrastruture (mostly workers) and Great People Points. Originally i think we were going with the second choice, but if the english are poaching our cities, we got to do something about it. Its too bad about our boats getting stuck. Maybe there is a way around. If there isn't, we should at least try to meet as many people as we can.

Maro, you go hard and enjoy.

Taking the land back shoudl be easy. Jsut a 4 or so axeman. I assume he only has 2 archers there.

Hey guys. I am playing an extra turn since someone only played 9 but there has been big news. I am only on turn 4 and am looking for some advice with what to do next. I also don't have any pictures(sorry)So.......

Turn 1
Good News and Bad News:

Bad news, Alex cancels OB. Now our Eastern Fishing boat is trapped over there, i sent him to scout out Mao.

Good News, we finish math. I started on Calendar for the plantation for the spices, tell me if i should change it.

Turn 2: Julius turns Buddhist

Turn 4: Mansa offers Corn for Clam, I reject
Hatty offers open borders, I accept now our eastern boat has work.
We meet Saladin, who founded Confusicanism. He also has every tech we have.

And............. Monty declares war on Fredrick!!!

I don't know what to do now. Can someone help me?

I don't think Calendar is a good choice. Either literature or construction would be my choice, but thats just me and you play it the way you want to man.

Literature would be a good one or construction. I think we need to get england of out island.

OK guys the save has been uploaded. I actually played 16 turns since someone played 9 but anyway, i will continue on from last post:

Turn 5:Axe finishes in Bronzetown, begin another. I also changed research to construction

Turn 6: Sally and Mao both want Gems for crab, i turn down both
Monty also asked us to declare war on Freddy, also reject

Turn 7: We meet Toku
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101359/Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG

We also meet Louis XIV
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101359/Civ4ScreenShot0004.JPG

The only people these guys know of is Ghandi and themselves.

Turn 8: Fred asks for war with Monty, I accept. I don't want to displease fred and he is too far away to do any real damage.

Turn 9: Louis demands COL, I refuse. He turns annoyed
Taoism also got founded on this turn.

Turn 11:Mali asks for Alphabet, i refuse.
Hatty want gems for cow, i refuse
I also went to war with england for that Canterbury. The 2 axes in Bronzetown start moving in.
The England war has another purpose:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101359/Civ4ScreenShot0008.JPG

I found out where the English were hiding and now i am exploring their land for fun.:lol:

Turn 12:Sally asks for OB, I accept in case we find them
Mao wants COL for Mono and 100 gold, i refuse

Turn 13:We got Canterbury at the cost of an axe:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101359/Civ4ScreenShot0007.JPG
Also Homer is born in another land, this usually means that someone has music.

Turn 14:Bronzetown finishes axe, start a granary.

Turn 15:Construction is finished, start on Currency

Those are my turns. My thoughts


Moscow is unhappy
We have a stranded workboat to the south
the war with monty should end ASAP
The war with Victoria should end when we get our galley through


So who is next?

Immaculate
marowaker (played out of order)
Prominence
Mightygooga (played prev)
g_storrow (I am up.)
pavelthesecond

I will have a look and see what options we have and post them later today. I will play tomorrow.

I could believe how far we have explored when I had a look at the map on the screenshots the small map in the corner.

We seem not to have a plan recently.

Sorry I didn't get chance to have a look yesterday and I have had a look now and it doesn't look good. We have 2 workers for 6 cities!

We can trade with people but haven't I assume this was because we haven't decided who is going to be friends and who is going to die.

I have changed marodeny to worker and left the galley in teh queue and bronzetown is going to build another worker after next galley. I might chop worker in marodeny and Moscow. We need these cottages built and the reources connected asap in my mind.

world shot.JPG

Nest we want to plan who to be friends with. I reckon Fredrick as we are already +4 with him and he is mates with hatseput. So we start trading with these? Any other ideas.


mates.JPG


This only brings in Saladin, gandhi and HC to people we hate. So we start to trade techs and resource with these people I think.
I am unsure regarding which techs I should beline to? Depends what I trade for?
My main aim is to get the wars finished or not with one of them as we are getting mutual truggle witht fredirick. We need cottages and the resouces hooked up.
Any ideas I will play tomorrow morning.

To be honest in my games I trade as much as possible and then work friends out later but I am not a master of teh diplomatic win.

Hello Guys,

I wanted to ask who is responsible for the tags in the cities? That was great! It really helped.

My thoughts.

We should defently discuss a diplomatic strategy. Becouse we need a target soon.

We need to build up an ancient army and start a navy. So we can capture a second Island. From the weorld map we seem to have a good piece of land, capable of supporting a small conquest war.

Lets get those cities building a small army, For protection and for retaining any smarty civ that tries to get a war with us week.

MG, Normally I build up my cities first then attack but that is why I obviously end up attacknig with cavalry and cannon rather than axeman, maceman and catapults.

I am unsure are we trying to build up cities or getting a war machine,.

I was trying to be friends with the catholics and lious doesn have any enemies at teh moment but I was a bit chaotic with the trading. did resources to keep us happy and a few others health ones which I am bit unsure of. Here is the log

Turn 171 (65 AD)
Brazilions begins: Library
Tech learned: Calendar
Moscow finishes: Galley
Bronzetown finishes: Granary

Turn 172 (80 AD)
Bronzetown begins: Barracks
Marodeny finishes: Worker

Turn 173 (95 AD)
Marodeny finishes: Galley

Turn 174 (110 AD)
Marodeny begins: Granary
Moscow finishes: Worker

Turn 175 (125 AD)
Moscow begins: Library

Turn 176 (140 AD)
Taoism has spread: Brazilions

Turn 177 (155 AD)
Marodeny finishes: Granary
Jungle Land grows: 4

Turn 178 (170 AD)
Marodeny begins: Catapult
Tech learned: Currency

Turn 179 (185 AD)
Research begun: Civil Service
Research begun: Metal Casting

Turn 180 (200 AD)
Moscow grows: 7
Bronzetown finishes: Barracks

Turn 181 (215 AD)
Bronzetown begins: Catapult
Tech learned: Literature

Turn 182 (230 AD)
Marodeny grows: 6

Turn 183 (245 AD)
Tech learned: Monarchy
Canterbury's borders expand

Turn 184 (260 AD)
Tech learned: Horseback Riding

My DVD-player is down then (friday) i am going out of country for 2 weeks, so i will need to be skipped for awhile.

Immaculate
marowaker
Prominence
Mightygooga
g_storrow (just played)
pavelthesecond (up now)

I started trading techs with fredirick , hatty and lious. Which was basically the catholics and someone with no religion. I have also traded with a few other natiosn for happiness resoucres.
I have started building catapults with the two production cities. With the others bulding commerce related buildings. Lets try and pick the pace up so we finish now. Pavel you have 48 hrs to pick up the before you are skipped.

i've got the file and have looked over it.
couple of questions before i start my turn:
who are we planning to attack with our army next?
we have a great merchant just sitting in Marodony. What should i do with him?
what should i research afte MC? i'm thinking of going for machinery => guilds => civil service.
what is our long term diplomacy strategy?

i will do my turns friday evening.

I am unsure who to attack next I dont think we will ahve a big enough army. to attack jsut yet. I am not a master at early attacks anyway.
Unsure what to do with GM?
I was aimnig to e friends with catholics and Lious but unsure regarding long term stratgey. If we want to fight we should get maceman realy as possible.

Couple o ideas and one Warnig.

Ideas:

1 - We really should get the merchant going and get those gold coins. Tha will finance a proper Military Research (Mace man) and then we will be able to pick targets.

2 - In order to make a war now, we really need a extensive Navy. Lots o Galleys so we can mantain our coast safe and repell atacks earlier rather than later. I have been talking a lot about the nayv in my alst posts. We really should be aware that with out a good and advanced navy we will be doomed.

3 - Lets trade some sea techs if its possible. We need that.

4 - Can any one tell what is the Great LightHouse doing four our empire?

Warning:

People many of you know, but not most. This next week is CARNIVAL in Brasil. I am sorry to say that I will be leaving the posts for a week becouse im going on a trip to the heart of Brazil. THE HUGEST PARTY ever. So if it gets to my turn please skip. If it doesnt before my next post please wait.

Laters !!!

@MightyGooga:
the great lighthouse gives each coastal city plus 2 trade routes. and since at the moment each trade route give us 2 gold, that is +4 gold in each costal city :commerce:

Turn log:
Turn 187 (305 AD)
Tech learned: Metal Casting
Jungle Land finishes: Library
monty asks for MC in exchange for peace. i reject
i get the merchant to join Moscow since it is producing the most commerce at the moment.

Turn 188 (320 AD)
Research begun: Civil Service
Jungle Land begins: Worker
Marodeny grows: 7

Turn 189 (335 AD)

Turn 190 (350 AD)
Marodeny finishes: Catapult
Bronzetown finishes: Catapult
Canterbury grows: 2

Turn 191 (365 AD)
Marodeny begins: Axeman
Bronzetown begins: Catapult
Moscow grows: 9
Brazilions grows: 3
Brazilions's borders expand

Turn 192 (380 AD)
Moscow begins: Buddhist Temple

Turn 193 (395 AD)

Turn 194 (410 AD)
Marodeny finishes: Axeman

Turn 195 (425 AD)
Marodeny begins: Axeman
Moscow grows: 9
Moscow finishes: Library
Bronzetown grows: 6
Bronzetown finishes: Catapult

Turn 196 (440 AD)
Bronzetown begins: Axeman
Marodeny grows: 8

Turn 197 (455 AD)
Contact made: Persian Empire

Turn 198 (470 AD)
Marodeny finishes: Axeman

Turn 199 (485 AD)
Marodeny begins: Axeman
Moscow grows: 10
Bronzetown finishes: Axeman
Jungle Land finishes: Worker
Canterbury grows: 3

Turn 200 (500 AD)
Bronzetown begins: Catapult
Jungle Land begins: Courthouse

Shortterm plans:
i have recalled 2 galleys back home (the ones in the chinese waters) bacause there isn't much else they can explorer and we will need them to transport troops. At this moment our army consists of 5 cats and 4 axemen. plus we will have iron hoked up in 2 turns. :mwaha:
i have discovered a not-totaly explored island in the north with 2 villages and a barbarian city.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/80711/Civ4ScreenShot0017.JPG
i propose we send our army there right now (as soon as the galleys get back) take out the barbarian city by then we would have discovered machinery, we upgrade to maceman and take out alex. What do you think of this?

btw, here is our power graph for the last 50 turns:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/80711/Civ4ScreenShot0018.JPG
doing quite well. if only we had another 4 swordsman we could take on alex. but alas.

longrerm:
lets try to get good relations with egypt and anybody they are frieds with.
Geographically they are far enough from us to allow us to expand without having to worry about border conflicts. Politically they are one of the most powerfull civs. if we are going to do this then from now on we need to give in to anything that egypt or anybody she has good relations with demands. but don't do any trades with Tokugawa and Mansa bacause egypt doesn't like them. Do you agree or think we should follow a different path?

Immaculate (gone for next 2 weeks)
marowaker (up now)
Prominence
Mightygooga (gone for the week)
g_storrow
pavelthesecond (just played)

Pavel: looks like good set of turns.

Looks like a good plan also. I think we shoudl be lookngi for more than 1 ally? I think lious and fredirick are also good allies.

Do we have until the end of march to finish if we do I think we need to get a move on?
Any ideas of how to make this happen? Increase number of turns to 20?...
Marowalker has had 60 hrs to mention he is picknig turn up i think we need to be 48 hrs then you get skipped if we are gonig to finish.
I will PM him. (he hasnt been on this site since 5th feb when he posted his turn)
I am slo PMing prominece who is next. He hasnt been on since 5th Jan? I will be giving them 24hrs then I will play. If they answer after the 24hrs they can take the next turn. Sorrry if it sounds harsh but I think we need to get a move on to get this game finished.
Comment if you think I am wrong or if you think I am write.

i completly agree. we do need to start going faster. By looking on the SGOTM results page, our group is 2nd or 3rd slowest. lets leave the number of turns at 15 for now, but the 48 hours wait before being skipped is fair.

Yes, we do need more then one ally and fredrick with lious sound good. However if we do have to chouse between them (like if egypt asks us to attack fredrich for some weird reason) we should follow egypt first and the other 2 civs second.

Is it my turn already? I thought I just played.;) . Oh and I do check the thread without signing in so you don't need to worry about me(most of the time).

I actually can't play this round so skip me for now. But I agree 999999999999999999% we need to get a move on. Maybe someone can do a Mega round(30-40 turns?) but still we should increase turns played to at least 20-25.

About the game, Alex should be our first target, but I don't see a point in taking out the barb city, it is miles away.

I am going to take the next turn. pretty soon the only think I am unsure regarding is do I go for alex or barbarian island?
If we go for barbarian island we need get some courthouse and forbidden plaace up there.
Also soem say increase numebr of turns other say don't. I will probably play 20 to go inbetween to comments but might post later today to when I have come to decision on who to attack. I will set a galley out to the barbarian island and maybe try and explore then and see if the island is worthwhile.

500 AD to 800 AD:
Attached session log in the spoiler.


Just to state a few things don't promote units until they need to be used. I lost a couple because they had the wrong promotion. This includes catapults. Everyone knows that collateral damage is the best promotion! But dont promote them until they are used.
Here is the autolog with my comments:

To get mates with hatty I do the trade 4GPT for spices.
Turn 201 (515 AD)
Moscow begins: Axeman
Our decision has been made for us JC attacks us!
Use out money to promote warrior in Moscow to spearman as they have 2 HAs.

Turn 202 (530 AD)
Axeman promoted: Combat I
Tech learned: Civil Service
Marodeny finishes: Axeman
Spearman defeats (0.80/4): Roman Horse Archer
Axeman loses to: Roman Horse Archer (0.96/6)
Axeman defeats (2.15/5): Roman Praetorian
Axeman defeats (3.10/5): Roman Praetorian
Axeman loses to: Roman Praetorian (3.68/8)
Axeman loses to: Roman Archer (2.25/3)
change to bureaucracy and hereditary rule
Luckily JC lands all his troops near Moscow so we can move out axesa and catapults to defend it. It may be better to spread the troops more for defence.
Turn 203 (545 AD)
Marodeny begins: Catapult
Catapult defeats (2.90/5): Roman Praetorian
Catapult defeats (5.00/5): Roman Archer
Spearman defeats (0.80/4): Roman Horse Archer
Jungle Land begins: Granary

Turn 204 (560 AD)

Turn 205 (575 AD)
Moscow grows: 8
Moscow finishes: Axeman
Bronzetown finishes: Catapult

Turn 206 (590 AD)
Moscow begins: Barracks
Bronzetown begins: Spearman
Moscow begins: Market
Galley defeats (2.00/2): Roman Galley
Hatty asks to stop dealing with the HC we say yes.

Turn 207 (605 AD)
Marodeny grows: 9
Marodeny's borders expand
Cyrus asks for OB. we say no look at the relations and doesn't hate hatty so we agree.

Turn 208 (620 AD)
Tech learned: Compass
Moscow begins: Harbor
Jungle Land grows: 4
Cyrus trade 10gold + compass for horse riding and Code of Laws.
Question 1) do you reckon in future take the 10 gold or let him have it cheaper so get more + for trade relations? I always take the money.

Turn 209 (635 AD)
Marodeny finishes: Catapult
Bronzetown grows: 7
Bronzetown finishes: Spearman

Turn 210 (650 AD)
Marodeny begins: Catapult
Bronzetown begins: Catapult

Turn 211 (665 AD)
Moscow grows: 9
Brazilions finishes: Library
Monte peace with frederick.
Turn 212 (680 AD)
Brazilions begins: Harbor
Canterbury grows: 4
load 4 cats 2 axes to galleys to attack ravenna

Turn 213 (695 AD)
Marodeny finishes: Catapult
Bronzetown finishes: Catapult
Brazilions grows: 4

Turn 214 (710 AD)
Marodeny begins: Work Boat
Bronzetown begins: Forge
Catapult loses to: Roman Axeman (0.75/5)
Catapult promoted: Barrage II
Axeman promoted: City Raider I
Axeman loses to: Roman Archer (0.09/3)
Catapult defeats (5.00/5): Roman Axeman
Catapult defeats (5.00/5): Roman Archer
Buddhism has spread: Ravenna
Captured Ravenna (Julius Caesar)
Tech learned: Machinery

Turn 215 (725 AD)
Research begun: Optics
Brazilions begins: Lighthouse
Marodeny begins: Maceman
Bronzetown begins: Maceman
Marodeny begins: Maceman
Jungle Land grows: 5

Turn 216 (740 AD)
Canterbury finishes: Granary

Turn 217 (755 AD)
Canterbury begins: Harbor

Turn 218 (770 AD)
Ravenna begins: Harbor
Moscow finishes: Harbor
Jungle Land finishes: Granary
Louis demands 100 gold we give it him.

Turn 219 (785 AD)
Jungle Land begins: Harbor
Moscow grows: 10
Galley defeats (0.10/2): Roman Galley
HC declares on Hatty unsure whether to goto war also. I dont think he can get to us. Properly. I think we declare for mutual attack. Or wait for her to ask us we defintely go in then.
Turn 220 (800 AD)
Tech learned: Theology
Tech learned: Feudalism
Galley promoted: Drill I


You may wish to copy it to Notepad for reference when you write your turn set post. It includes any entries you added with the in-game Chat facility.
I think I will put he chat info in to put notes on.

I think we try and kick JC off the map then attack gandhi for his holy city that will be loads of money! I dont see the poitn of attacking alex we will get his cities easily witht promoted maceman but china iwll take a lot of space of teh cities.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/87189/northenempire.JPG

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/87189/southern_part.JPG

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/87189/FA_end_of_time.JPG

Immaculate (gone for next 2 weeks- back earliest 27th feb
marowaker (answered email says busy at the moment)
Prominence (didnt answer PM & email)
Mightygooga (gone for the week - back maybe 26th ish )
g_storrow (just played)
pavelthesecond (up next)

It looks like it is just me and pavel playing at the moment!

I have our first 2 maceman online. lets hope we can take romes main island with this army.

i just played like 5 days ago, boy are we going fast. lol.:crazyeye:
good job kicking some roman ass.:goodjob:

firstly, sorry about the promotion thing. i'm just used to promoting units asap so they don't bother me with the glowing blue light. will try to resist urge.

to answear your question about trading, i'd usually try to sqeeze as much as possible out of AI. from my experience you won't get more then +4 from trade and as long as you trade something for a while you'l get that +4.

regrading war between hatty and HC, lets wait till she asks out help. we will get a very nice relations bonus then.

under the circumstances, taking out JC and then Ghandi seems like a good idea. However, i think we still should send a galley with a unit to try to get the villages in the north before other civs and explore the barb teritorry.

any thoughts?
i'll do 25 turns tommorow.

We now have our next target(oh yeah) and we started of by getting ravena(even better). We have a future ahead of us.

Regarding me though, I can still watch the forum, but i can't play. I will be able to start again after pavel though, put me up after him.

Regarding turns, playing 25 now sounds good to me. But after that we will leave it at 20.

I had a closer look at the island and I reckon it might not be worth our while as I reckon there could be 1 or 2 decent city sites but as it is so far north I think there will be too much tundra. I also saw a galley from from hatty heading north with a settler in.
The other choice you need to make is whether to switch to vassalage or stay with bureaucracy. I am unsure on this one?
I was mainly try to build harbours with the commerce cities. The problem with them is that our non-production/commerce cities have very little production but you might want to build a longbowman or something like that to help with defence with the war effort. All these I am unsure off. Can't think off anything else at the moment.
Apart from two maceman are being built not been built. You will also decide which roman city to attack first. I would also build a caravel for sea battles. JC hsa at least 6 galleys compared to our 3.

i played 20 turns. so now we can keep the turn count nice and clean.

Turn 221 (815 AD)
Marodeny begins: Maceman
switched to vassalage. my reasons being
1, we are getting +50 production in moscow which we don't need cuz its production is to low anyway. 2, we could use the extra 2 experience points, means we can upgrade new units to level 3 right away which will be very nice since we are going into war mode at the moment.

Turn 222 (830 AD)
Bronzetown finishes: Maceman

Turn 223 (845 AD)
Research begun: Guilds
Bronzetown begins: Caravel
Marodeny finishes: Maceman
Jungle Land grows: 6

Turn 224 (860 AD)

Turn 225 (875 AD)
Canterbury grows: 5

Turn 226 (890 AD)

Turn 227 (905 AD)
Jungle Land grows: 7

Turn 228 (920 AD)
Moscow grows: 11
Bronzetown finishes: Caravel
Jungle Land's borders expand
i sent the caravel on around the world. but Mao circumnavigated the globe before us so now its just exploring new land.

Turn 229 (935 AD)

Turn 230 (950 AD)
Marodeny begins: Caravel
Marodeny finishes: Maceman
Pytheas (Great Merchant) born in Marodeny
i make him join moscow so he is generating another 6 gold now

Turn 231 (965 AD)
Jungle Land grows: 8

Turn 232 (980 AD)
Marodeny grows: 10
Ravenna's borders expand

Turn 233 (995 AD)
Battle of Pisae:
Catapult loses to: Roman Longbowman (6.00/6)
Maceman defeats (8.00/8): Roman Longbowman
Maceman defeats (4.64/8): Roman Archer
Maceman defeats (8.00/8): Roman Spearman
Buddhism has spread: Pisae
Captured Pisae (Julius Caesar)
Canterbury grows: 6

Turn 234 (1010 AD)
Marodeny begins: Maceman
Tech learned: Guilds
Marodeny finishes: Caravel
Jungle Land finishes: Harbor
Contact made: Spanish Empire

Turn 235 (1025 AD)
Research begun: Paper
Moscow grows: 12
Jungle Land grows: 9
Ravenna grows: 4

Turn 236 (1040 AD)

Turn 237 (1055 AD)
Contact made: Mongolian Empire
Moscow's borders expand

Turn 238 (1070 AD)
Battle of Rome:
Catapult loses to: Roman Longbowman (4.20/6)
Maceman defeats (4.16/8): Roman Longbowman
Maceman defeats (2.88/8): Roman Longbowman
Catapult defeats (3.00/5): Roman Longbowman
Catapult loses to: Roman Spearman (1.44/4)
Catapult defeats (4.15/5): Roman Spearman
Captured Rome (Julius Caesar)
Brazilions finishes: Lighthouse

Turn 239 (1085 AD)
Bronzetown finishes: Forge
Jungle Land grows: 10

Turn 240 (1100 AD)
Bronzetown begins: Maceman
Pisae begins: Harbor

Foreign relations report:
Tokugawa attacked Ghandi. i think if tokugawa asks us for help AFTER we finish with JC, we should go ahead. any opinions?
on the last turn Hashi finaly asked us to attack mali and i complied.
Monty asked for peace (finally) and gave us 10gc, i agreed.
I traded away the second iron resource to Cyrus for 5gpt:king: and whale.

we need to build courtehouses asap. city maintance is the main drain of cash, plus now that we have taken more cities its starting to become rewally bad.
the caravel and two galleys south and south west of ravenna should regroup together and take out the roman gallesy next to bronzetown.
Send igor to defend rome so we can keep the offence going.

should we rename cities we take?
when should we make peace with JC? after we wipe him out or kick him of the island or earlier?

also, we have finally meet everybody meaning we can look at the middle age spoiler thread. Yay!

Marowalker do you have time to do turn? You have 48 hrs to pick up or you get skipped. Anyone else fancy a turn apart from pavel or me say so and you can pick up now. No one says anything and I will play in 48hrs.
Edit I reckon we defo wipe himoff that island

Sorry guys, i can't play this round(I am very unreliable to you guys) so sorry:cry: . At least we are kicking Julius off of our island. And i can still watch the thread.

played 20 turns not overly happy with results. next person needs to make decision regarding attacking rome again. have assemlbed a force but might need a few/lot more. But we coudl do with killing/getting cumae it stong culture is ahmerping our other gains. . WE nearly have liberism as well a long time in lead. will post info tomorrow sorry so short but have no time now.

A short summary of the turnset.

I stopped warring with JC after seeing Cumae had too many defenders. I have stacked up a few people in Rome for another attack maybe. Just to get rid of Cumae as its culture is making us struggle. We have had one roman revolt already. Rest of turns beelined to liberalism.

Traded with Gandhi and Lious for techs. Kept warring with HC even thogu he wanted peace. TRaded maps with a few civs but onyl when they aksed and took money off them as well. Cyrus and MM are alright to trade with as well for our catholic being nice to.

Are we beelining for massmedia. Or try to get cavalry or cannon first so we can get all Romes island and maybe gandhi holy city. Could be a good idea for universal suffragete as we have money but not a lot production. I would aim for ravenna beign prod/commerce hybrid. cottages and mines. If you do attack be careful of rome landing troops as we dont have much defence. HC has lost 1 city to hatty so far.

Is it worth all the commerce cities having universities straight away so we can get Oxford university maybe change a few productions.

Here is the turn log and my comments.
HTurn 241 (1106 AD)
Research begun: Education
Maceman loses to: Roman Longbowman (0.48/6)
Maceman defeats (2.96/8): Roman Longbowman

Turn 242 (1112 AD)
Ravenna finishes: Harbor

Turn 243 (1118 AD)
Ravenna begins: Work Boat
Islam founded in a distant land

Turn 244 (1124 AD)
Tech learned: Drama
Tech learned: Music
Jungle Land begins: Theatre
Moscow grows: 13
Jungle Land grows: 11

Turn 245 (1130 AD)
Marodeny grows: 10
Marodeny finishes: Forge

Turn 246 (1136 AD)
Marodeny begins: Catapult
Rome begins: Theatre
Canterbury grows: 7
Rome finishes: Theatre

Turn 247 (1142 AD)
Rome begins: Work Boat

Turn 248 (1148 AD)
Rome's borders expand
Rome finishes: Work Boat

Turn 249 (1154 AD)
Rome begins: Jewish Temple
Marodeny finishes: Catapult
Ravenna grows: 5
Pisae finishes: Harbor

Turn 250 (1160 AD)
Marodeny begins: Longbowman
Pisae begins: Theatre
Jungle Land grows: 12
Brazilions finishes: Harbor

Turn 251 (1166 AD)
Brazilions begins: Market
Brazilions's borders expand
Ravenna finishes: Work Boat

Turn 252 (1172 AD)
Tech learned: Philosophy
Ravenna begins: Granary

Turn 253 (1178 AD)
Bronzetown finishes: Heroic Epic
Jungle Land finishes: Theatre
Pisae's borders expand

Turn 254 (1184 AD)
Bronzetown begins: Knight
Jungle Land begins: Work Boat
Moscow grows: 14
Marodeny finishes: Longbowman

Turn 255 (1190 AD)
Marodeny begins: Catapult
Moscow finishes: Market
Jungle Land grows: 12
Canterbury finishes: Harbor

Turn 256 (1196 AD)
Moscow begins: Forge
Pisae begins: Lighthouse
Tech learned: Education
Marodeny grows: 11
Ravenna finishes: Granary

Turn 257 (1202 AD)
Research begun: Liberalism
Ravenna begins: Barracks
Ravenna begins: Caravel
Canterbury begins: Work Boat
Bronzetown grows: 8
Bronzetown finishes: Knight
Brazilions grows: 5

Turn 258 (1208 AD)
Bronzetown begins: Longbowman
Marodeny finishes: Catapult

Turn 259 (1214 AD)
Marodeny begins: Maceman
Bronzetown finishes: Longbowman

Turn 260 (1220 AD)
Bronzetown begins: Longbowman
Longbowman promoted: City Garrison I
Longbowman promoted: City Garrison II

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/87189/southern_empire.JPG

mmaculate (gone for next 2 weeks- back earliest 27th feb)
marowaker (answered email says busy at the moment)
Prominence (didnt answer PM & email)
Mightygooga (gone for the week - back maybe 26th ish )
g_storrow (just played)
pavelthesecond (up next)

still not heard for any of MG or Immaculate. So Pavel you might as well play next mate.

just to let you know, i'll do my turns friday or thursday if i have time.

ok, sorry but i won't be able to play till saturday or sunday, so if you want go ahead and skip me thats fine. or if you don't mind waiting then i'll play it then.

ok, sorry but i won't be able to play till saturday or sunday, so if you want go ahead and skip me thats fine. or if you don't mind waiting then i'll play it then.

I think we shoudl wait as it is only me and you at the moment.

Hi, i am back from my trip, but won't be able to play yet as i am still waiting on my CD/DVD player.
Sorry.

Hellooooo !!!! Im back. Wow that was fun! I wish I could share Carnaval with you guys... believe me you would like that.

So where are we? I guess We are a little behind HUH? Comon people lets get that energy flowing again! Discussions are needed, Turns need to be played. Lets go!!!

I too am back.:goodjob: . Now we need to wait for pavel to do his turns since he said he would. What is the roster again?

Immaculate[unable due to lack of CD player]
Marowaker[up next]
Prominence[busy at moment]
Mightygooga
g_storrow[just played]
pavelthesecond[playing]

ok i finaly got around to playing my turn set.
i gathered a nice army in rome and was about to attack when Mao declared war on us!
I did some tech trading to get the cash to updrage our navy and some strategic city defences.So far i have not attacked JC nor have i moved the army away from rome. i have tried to sink Mao's navy but he has +1 movement so his ships are outmanuavering us. We need to decide if we want to send our army to china or play a defensive war and attack JC.
personally i think we should go ahead and attack JC. Our army is already there, we have already taken out some of his cities so he will be easier, and finally geographically china is behind alex and JC so it will be harder to do.

turn log:
Turn 260 (1220 AD)
Bronzetown begins: Knight
Contact made: American Empire
Rome's borders expand

Turn 261 (1226 AD)
Jungle Land begins: Confucian Temple
Moscow grows: 14
Bronzetown finishes: Longbowman
Jungle Land grows: 13

Turn 262 (1232 AD)

Turn 263 (1238 AD)

Turn 264 (1244 AD)
Marodeny finishes: Maceman
Canterbury grows: 8
Ravenna grows: 6
Rome grows: 4

Turn 265 (1250 AD)
Marodeny begins: Courthouse
Bronzetown finishes: Knight

Turn 266 (1256 AD)
Bronzetown begins: Knight
Brazilions grows: 6
Ravenna finishes: Caravel

Turn 267 (1262 AD)
Ravenna begins: Courthouse
Marodeny grows: 12

Turn 268 (1268 AD)
Tech learned: Liberalism
Bronzetown finishes: Knight
Jungle Land grows: 14
i switch over to free speech and free religion.

Turn 269 (1274 AD)
Tech learned: Astronomy
Research begun: Nationalism
Bronzetown begins: Courthouse

Turn 270 (1280 AD)

Turn 271 (1286 AD)

Turn 272 (1292 AD)
Moscow grows: 15

Turn 273 (1298 AD)
Canterbury finishes: Work Boat
Rome's borders expand

Turn 274 (1304 AD)
Tech learned: Engineering
Bronzetown begins: Longbowman

Turn 275 (1310 AD)
Bronzetown finishes: Longbowman
Ravenna grows: 7
Caravel loses to: Chinese Caravel (1.20/3)

Turn 276 (1316 AD)
Pikeman defeats (4.98/6): Chinese Knight
Brazilions grows: 7

Turn 277 (1322 AD)
Galleon loses to: Chinese Galleon (3.24/4)
Caravel defeats (0.24/3): Chinese Galleon
Pikeman defeats (2.40/6): Chinese Longbowman
Longbowman loses to: Chinese Catapult (2.90/5)
Catapult defeats (5.00/5): Chinese Catapult
Marodeny finishes: Courthouse
Jungle Land grows: 15

Turn 278 (1328 AD)
Marodeny begins: Knight
Galleon defeats (1.84/4): Chinese Caravel
Marodeny begins: Galleon

Turn 279 (1334 AD)
Canterbury grows: 9

Turn 280 (1340 AD)

I guess i am up next.;) I have the save, but let's get some dscussion going first. Will post game in 24 hours