View Full Version : The great concentrated UHV design effort thread


Blasphemous
Nov 26, 2006, 09:19 AM
We've had Unique Historical Victories for a while now and with RFCW coming tomorrow, it's about time we start getting serious about making them all realistic and doable. It also may be time to discuss general changes to the UHV system, like Rod's(?) proposal of creating a tiered system across the board where the first goal is easy, the second goal is relatively hard and is usually done later on, and the final goal is nigh on impossible (but just barely doable) and comes yet later on.

Here are threads about UHVs so far (in no particular order, and possibly incomplete):

Suggestion: Unique Victory Conditions / Achievements - the one that started it all
France's historical victory
Historical Victories? - a thread doubting how historical the goals are
English Historical Victory
American Historical Victory
Warlords Civs: Unique powers and victories
Egyptian Historical Victory
FYI on France Victory Conditions (SPOILER WARNING)
Historical India Victory - the title that broke the mold ;p
German Historical Victory
Greek Historical Victory
English UHV Revealed
Problem with Spanish Historical Victory
Japanese UHV

Phallus
Nov 26, 2006, 09:22 AM
What became of the 'have at least three religions in every Indian city' suggestion?

Surtur
Nov 26, 2006, 10:30 AM
It also may be time to discuss general changes to the UHV system, like Rod's(?) proposal of creating a tiered system across the board where the first goal is easy, the second goal is relatively hard and is usually done later on, and the final goal is nigh on impossible (but just barely doable) and comes yet later on.

A system like this would be excellent. :goodjob:

SadoMacho
Nov 26, 2006, 12:38 PM
I would like to see as first UHV a wonder unique for the civ that needs to be build before a date. Most of these wonders are already in the game, so not much extra art shouldn't be created. In this way we could have UU, UB, UP, UHV and UW, a unique Wonder.

McA123
Nov 26, 2006, 03:38 PM
What became of the 'have at least three religions in every Indian city' suggestion?


Something like that was suggested for one of the Japanese goals, but the problem with that is that you can't choose which religions spread into your cities, so the easiest way to get that 3rd religion is to invade another civ (I'd consider this to be a lot easier than founding a 3rd religion), the nearest of which would be china, and that is completely unhistorical.

Tom Veil
Nov 26, 2006, 03:48 PM
Something like that was suggested for one of the Japanese goals, but the problem with that is that you can't choose which religions spread into your cities, so the easiest way to get that 3rd religion is to invade another civ (I'd consider this to be a lot easier than founding a 3rd religion), the nearest of which would be china, and that is completely unhistorical.


I consider Japan "solved" now that Rhye found the bug in the "no foriegn culture" goal. Anyway, multireligious society isn't really what one thinks of when one thinks of Japan. Many religions reached Japan, but Japanese culture warped them all to meet local customs.

3 religions per city is doable for India. If you're doing India right, you've got Buddhism and Hinduism anyway, and since we've proven that "found 4 religions" is possible -- it's the 5th religion that's impossible without extreme luck -- you should be able to spread the religions.

McA123
Nov 26, 2006, 04:13 PM
Yeah, but that's not history. The whole purpose of the UHV was to try to accomplish what your nation historically did, or maybe more in some cases, but there is no way in hell any of the remaining 5 religions would have been founded by India.

And I agree that Japan is fine, I was just re-iterating a point that was already made and resulted in the rejection of said idea for Japan.

NitroJay
Nov 26, 2006, 10:31 PM
Hey, I'm fine with Japan's UHV... India is killing me though... If "have 3 religions per city" doesn't work for everyone, maybe spread hinduism/buddism to X% by XXXX would be something to consider. However, I think having 3 religions per city would be more historically accurate... I stand by my original idea.

Blasphemous
Nov 27, 2006, 09:21 AM
Having at least 3 religion in each city is not only realistic, it's possible to achieve without warping history: with Organized Religion you don't need any building to get missionaries. All you need is at least one city with each religion of three in your empire (and though I have never played India, this is common even as Middle Eastern civs; India should have no problem getting that many.) Then you just spread the religions using missionaries. It wouldn't even be an amazingly hard goal. As an added bonus to mod balancement, it would be easier to achieve the smaller you are, meaning India could be peaceful or even limited to a smaller area that in history and still get this goal and subsequently the Indian UHV. In my book, any change that makes small peaceful civs a feasible way to win is a good chance.

NitroJay
Nov 27, 2006, 10:55 AM
In my book, any change that makes small peaceful civs a feasible way to win is a good chance.

Until you mow them over with Rome, right? :)

Blasphemous
Nov 27, 2006, 01:29 PM
You got me there. Some civs need to make it big sometimes (Rome, Greece, Turkey, England, Mongolia, Spain, China, etc.). All civs should be able to make it small when the need be. Being reduced to two or three cities should be dangerous because of collapse, not because it's impossible to win that way. :)

Tom Veil
Nov 27, 2006, 01:30 PM
Yeah, but that's not history. The whole purpose of the UHV was to try to accomplish what your nation historically did, or maybe more in some cases, but there is no way in hell any of the remaining 5 religions would have been founded by India.

Oh, I agree, they weren't founded by India. But India's post-1200 rulers were (for obvious reasons) rather keen on seeing Islam spread throughout the continent. So there's your third religion to spread to all cities. I am willing to accept an ahistorical game where I shoot for yet another religion as the third -- after all, in reality, there are lots of other religions in India (Sikh, Jain, Hare, Bahai, etc.) that aren't represented in the game.

kairob
Nov 27, 2006, 01:46 PM
I dont think founding 5 religions is good, spreading three sounds much better IMHO...

Drogear
Nov 28, 2006, 03:03 AM
reposting this:

Normal diff, Greece. (1 game on vanilla 1 on warlords both with same result)

It seems hard\impossible to be the first to build The Oracle thus unabling a UHV.
(My "optimal" tactic is as usualy to first build the 17 turn settler getting time to get masonry and quarry the marble before starting to build wonders but there is no way to beat the AI to all 3 UHV wonders.)

Normal diff, Babylon. Warlords version

UHV seems on to be easy, on paper. But the sudden spawn of 2-3 chariots and other barbarians makes it somewhat hard to defens against with warriors (proving you go for UHV)

Phallus
Nov 28, 2006, 12:52 PM
Something like that was suggested for one of the Japanese goals, but the problem with that is that you can't choose which religions spread into your cities, so the easiest way to get that 3rd religion is to invade another civ (I'd consider this to be a lot easier than founding a 3rd religion), the nearest of which would be china, and that is completely unhistorical.

I'll admit I haven't read further into the thread, but this is rather odd. A third religion could quite easily spread into one of your cities, and then all you have to do is train missionaries and spread them. After this the game engine should mostly do your work for you, so it's not a case of "invade China or found a third religion".

Drogear
Dec 01, 2006, 03:24 AM
Normal diff, Warlords, Egypt.

UHV is hard but clearly duable. But it all comes down to getting Music/Artist before turn 146.

Tried building every singel wonder that I could.

had 2 cities with library, tempel from my religion and these wonders:

Stonehenge
The Great Library
The Great Lighthouse
The Oracle
The Parthenon
The Pyramid
Arch de triumph

Oh and to achive this I had to really on very very weak army to build research in turns where no wonders where avaible even thos every known civ was in war vs me.

Even if I built all of those wonders I could not get 5000 culture by 450AD and thus only leaving me with cultural bombing with a great artist that I got from Music. And the Artis gave me 4000 culture that seems rather a overkill. This makes me think of another tactic to try spawn a great artist from my cities but that isnt to easy since I have to get the Lighthous, G library and Pyramids that cancel out any great artist people spawn.