Have to wonder if maybe Sid is just burnt out of making new games? I loved Railroad Tycoon I (yip the original), was disappointed with RT2 and RT3 as both got close but failed to capture the enjoyment of RT1. Hence I was totally blown away when I first heard that Sid would be making a true new version of RT. But it seems ALL the effort went into graphics graphics graphics, not actual functionality. In RT1 you actually have MORE features than Railroads; a game made ages ok actually has more functionality. It seems the only thing placed into Railroads was graphics at the cost of real gameplay / challenge and sophistication.
Similar story with Pirates, the original was well ‘original’ and I clocked out many hours playing that one, and again was looking forward to Sid’s sequel released last year. But then again functionality was nearly identical to the original, no new thinking at all, all that was done was graphics graphics graphics. Similar to Civ4 as well, really what was made better from Civ3 than graphics?
Realistically Sid is now catering for the mass market = has to look pretty, has to be simple, and cannot be sophisticated as confuses the punters. This is such a shame, as either Sid has burnt himself out making new games, or simply sold himself out. The later look we cannot criticize him for, as end of day he has made some great games and deserves to rest up; but really this is such as shame.
I personally would love to see a game made where it was functionality challenge intelligence first, then graphics. Not graphics first then if there is time maybe some functionality, or which seems to be the norm now graphics, release, then patch in functionality. All that seems to be missing is some ‘canned laughter’ and maybe a cute fluffy animal.
Sid, I would always salute you, but when are you going to challenge yourself and some of your fans to a real intellectual fun game.

Like you, I loved the original Railroad Tycoon. And Pirates! But Railroad Tycoon II (which I enjoyed very much) and Railroad Tycoon III (which I didn't care for at all) were by PopTop, not Sid Meier.

I own all three renditions of Pirates! and of the three I like the original game the best. But even I would not want to return to the CGA graphics of the early game.

There were a number of things changed from Civ3 to Civ4 which, in my opinion, made Civ4 a better game. Just having the AI respect my boundaries ranks high on my list of improvements. ;)

As for Sid "catering for the mass market," perhaps that has something to do with Firaxis being acquired by Take-Two Interactive (http://www.mobygames.com/company/firaxis-games).

I have often considered not buying any more new PC games. I don't own any other gaming platforms nor do I intend on buying any. The reason I feel this way is because I have purchased enough PC games in the past to keep me entertained for the rest of my life. By doing so, I would not have to concern myself with whether or not new games were being made that met my expectations.

But I can't help myself. When I see a new Sid Meier title being released, it's too great an urge and I simply must buy it. So far, I have not been disappointed. I like Sid Meier's Pirates! I like Sid Meier's Civilization IV. I like Sid Meier's Railroads!

I haven't played the Pirates! games, but I would agree to a point...
The question is how high are the expectations? Railroads is a perfectly enjoyable little game if you take it for what it is (there's no excuse for the terrible state it was released in, but that's a different issue, and I would say it's 2kgames's responsibility as a publisher that's lacking here). The game is an easy to learn little strategy distraction with trains in. It is not an epic strategy challenge that unfolds over the course of many days like Civ...yes there could be more details, yes it could be bigger in scale, with more scenarios, bigger maps, more gameplay features. But it looks like there just wasn't time for it.
The improvement in graphics does not come at the expense of gameplay either. 3D Artists don't make the game design, game designers do.
Everybody has to decide whether this game is worth their money. I absolutely loved it for about 2 weeks. Now I'm playing something else, but that's what happens to me with most games I buy...

actually
Sid is no longer any part of the product line
he is only selling his name.

actually
Sid is no longer any part of the product line
he is only selling his name.

Sorta like Col. Sanders, although to his dying day, he attacked the Corporations that destroyed his name and reputation.

Exactly how is Sid catering to the mass market with a game like Civ 4? That series hasn't been watered down at all. The new Railroads game is simpler than the previous one by PopTop games but so what. Not every title has to be some super deep strategy game with a 1000 different options. Firaxis is doing both types of games, and I don't see a problem with it.

actually
Sid is no longer any part of the product line
he is only selling his name.

Except that you're totally wrong on this one. Sid was heavily involved in the design for Railroads! I know this is difficult for hardcore strategy fans to accept, but the simplified nature of Railroads! was a conscious design decision rather than the result of shoddy programming. There were some inexcusably bad bugs in the release version of this game, and I'm very much NOT impressed by the game's AI, but it's simply wrong to insist that Sid was uninvolved in the creation of this game.

Except that you're totally wrong on this one. Sid was heavily involved in the design for Railroads! Then he's gone senile.

No Sid Flair in this game
No Sid robustness
No Sid improvement over his previous editions of this same topic line.

If he's actually involved in the product.
He simple no longer cares.

Exactly how is Sid catering to the mass market with a game like Civ 4? That series hasn't been watered down at all. The new Railroads game is simpler than the previous one by PopTop games but so what. Not every title has to be some super deep strategy game with a 1000 different options. Firaxis is doing both types of games, and I don't see a problem with it.

I do. This was seen by most gamers as Sid's attempt to perfect the RT franchise, and it failed miserably on many fronts. Had I been aware that this was a watered-down, dumbed-down version to appeal to greater audiences, I would've stayed away, or at least waited for a demo.

I do. This was seen by most gamers as Sid's attempt to perfect the RT franchise, and it failed miserably on many fronts. Had I been aware that this was a watered-down, dumbed-down version to appeal to greater audiences, I would've stayed away, or at least waited for a demo.


So the problem was with you and the other "hardcore gamers" who assumed something that was never publicly hinted at. Sid never said that this was going to be some uber complex be all to end all tycoon game.

So if you want the more complex Railroad game then just go play the last PopTop game.

So the problem was with you and the other "hardcore gamers" who assumed something that was never publicly hinted at. Sid never said that this was going to be some uber complex be all to end all tycoon game.


No, I don't think that is what being said at all. I think 2kgames, who owns Firaxis and PoPTop, should have simply and honestly released this game as Railroads, and not included the Sid Meier's in the title, which, unfortunately, used to mean one kick-ass game.

It appears that 2kgames knew it was a crappy version of a RR sim, and in order to get back what was invested into it, they added the Sid Meier's, as they own the name also.

2kgames have released some fine games recently, many of which I own, and those titles did not need a Sid Meier added to them. I mean, after all, they did release Prey, and that is an excellent game right from the box. CivCity is also a fav of mine, and the patch is due soon..:)

And Civilizations, Pirates - well what needs to be said? Sid Meier's on the box really meant you were getting a great games, not only a well thought out exciting & addictive game, but one that is 'uber complex be all to end all game.'

So, yes, we have a right to complain. All I know is any more Sid Meier's releases, I, for one, will wait till they are on Amazon and being sold by previous owners, so not to add any $$$ to 2kgames...

No, I don't think that is what being said at all. I think 2kgames, who owns Firaxis and PoPTop, should have simply and honestly released this game as Railroads, and not included the Sid Meier's in the title, which, unfortunately, used to mean one kick-ass game.

It appears that 2kgames knew it was a crappy version of a RR sim, and in order to get back what was invested into it, they added the Sid Meier's, as they own the name also.

What you say appears to be the case is completely wrong. You need to go do some googling and read about Firaxis and these remakes. Sid announced awhile ago they had acquired the rights to many of the old Microprose titles and were going to do remakes. This has nothing to do with 2K games trying to pass something off to gamers. I know you seem to have a hard time accepting this but this is what Sid and Firaxis want to do with some of their games. they aren't all about the uber complex strategy games.

....I think 2kgames, who owns Firaxis and PoPTop, should have simply and honestly released this game as Railroads, and not included the Sid Meier's in the title, which, unfortunately, used to mean one kick-ass game.

It appears that 2kgames knew it was a crappy version of a RR sim, and in order to get back what was invested into it, they added the Sid Meier's, as they own the name also....

According to this interview (http://www.shacknews.com/extras/2006/100906_sidmeier_1.x):

Shack: How did prefacing all of your software titles with your name come about? Marketing maneuver, or something else?

Sid Meier: It was definitely a marketing idea that came from Bill Stealey, my partner at Microprose. I had been known for creating flight sims back in the 1980's and then I wanted to make a game about Pirates. Bill wanted to make sure people would make the connection from F-19 to Pirates, so he suggested putting my name on the box.

So, you see, having Sid Meier's name in the title isn't anything new and goes back at least to 1990 when Sid Meier's Pirates! was released.

As for Sid Meier's Railroads!, all one has to do to get an idea of what type of audience the game was intended for is to watch its introductory movie. Personally, I don't think it's a crappy game at all. On the contrary, I think it is a good game.

Personally, I don't think it's a crappy game at all. On the contrary, I think it is a good game.

What I bought in the store for $43.60 was a crappy game..:) Since the patch it has become an OK game.. Perhaps another patch will make it a great game, only time will tell..:)

Oh, and everyone that buys a game does not necessarily have internet access, to watch movies or d/l patches, but that is beside your point..:)

What you say appears to be the case is completely wrong. You need to go do some googling and read about Firaxis and these remakes. Sid announced awhile ago they had acquired the rights to many of the old Microprose titles and were going to do remakes. This has nothing to do with 2K games trying to pass something off to gamers. I know you seem to have a hard time accepting this but this is what Sid and Firaxis want to do with some of their games. they aren't all about the uber complex strategy games.

Could very well be, as my hypothesis is based mainly on what I have read and what conclusions I reached, as I do not work for any of the Companies involved, and have no inside information.

Similar story with Pirates, the original was well ‘original’ and I clocked out many hours playing that one, and again was looking forward to Sid’s sequel released last year. But then again functionality was nearly identical to the original, no new thinking at all, all that was done was graphics graphics graphics. Similar to Civ4 as well, really what was made better from Civ3 than graphics?

I must STRONGLY disagree on your opinion about Civ4. If you say that Civ4="Civ3 with better graphics" than I must assume that you have never played each game more than hour or above the lowest difficulty level. Civ4 is incorporates so many new features AND is REALLY multiplayer-playable, please stop whining.
I used to play the original Pirates! a lot (390 points is my personal record) and the remake really plays different. Its not about only plundering anymore but about completing the story (Montalban, relatives,...). But they improved a lot of things (dancing, fencing, ship upgrades, items,...) and it is just not right to say that they did just improve the graphics. I do not understand why they made no random name generator for Mendoza and Raymondo, why they nerfed the Treasure Fleet so much and why they incorporated a score limit but it IS a great game. Just try the highest difficulty level without reloading - good luck.

just my 2 cents

....Oh, and everyone that buys a game does not necessarily have internet access, to watch movies or d/l patches, but that is beside your point..:)

It may be beside my point, but you touched on one of my pet peeves. Before I had internet access, I used to receive game patches via snail mail from the game publishers. Now that is what I call customer service! But today if you don't have an internet connection it's pretty hard to get patches for the games you buy. That was one reason why I subscribed to the CD editions of three PC gaming magazines.

But honestly, I enjoyed Sid Meier's Railroads! before its patch. I should mention that I enjoyed the original Pool of Radiance (http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/pool-of-radiance) and Daggerfall (http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/elder-scrolls-daggerfall) before their respective patches and they were notoriously buggy. :dunno:

Just played two more multiplayer games and a couple singleplayer, and I'm done with this title until/unless a major patch improves it. A lot.

What a shame that the greatest strategy game designer of all time felt that this thing was worth putting his name onto.

Exactly how is Sid catering to the mass market with a game like Civ 4? That series hasn't been watered down at all.

Faster games to cater the short-attention-span and multiplayer people? With Civ4, you have to MOD your game to make it as enjoyable as Civ3 was (to wage long wars in one era, rather than zip past the history).

But, as far as it comes to Railroads! and Pirates!, they were always meant to be simple little games - basically remakes of the originals with some tweaks here and there. They are good as they are, in my opinion, but I sure hope they will make "sequels" that will satisfy those gamers who look for a "deeper" experience when they play games.

But, as far as it comes to Railroads! and Pirates!, they were always meant to be simple little games - basically remakes of the originals with some tweaks here and there.

If Railroads! is intended to be a "remake of the original" then it utterly fails: it is far less robust and interesting than the original single-player-only Railroad Tycoon. But I don't think that was the design goal, because they stripped out several layers from the original game.

Rather, it appears that they were attempting to simplify it a bit and create a quicker-lighter-multiplayer version of the game. Alas they failed that objective too: Railroads! reflects several truly-stupid design decisions for multiplayer purposes and is buggy besides (even after the 1.01 patch). There's no way they beta-tested the thing with any actual regular strategy-mulitplayer gamers.

Routing difficulties kill the fun in this game. Its stems from not enough visual clues while laying, so you end up having learn through frustrating trial and error graudually picking up the nuances.

This game definately has that "one more turn" thingy like other Sid games, thing is I don't think I am having much fun. There is just a lack of satisfaction as it gets later in the game when new track can totally screw up existing routes.

I went to bed at 2am last because of the one more turn thing, but I went bed just pissed at the game. I like the trains and the resource management gets very interesting when managing supply and demand, but the stock thing is useless and the world outside of the trains is really dead.

So yea, this game is a dissappointment, but I really feel there is a good game in here somewhere.

And while the update to Pirates! has some issues, overall I still love the game and it is much better than this. I think this game will have one thing in common with Pirates1, patches probably won't address any of the core issues fans have because the games just don't sell well enough for Take 2 to make the investment it patches that truly fix what is wrong with the titles.