after the defeat in Rat17 in the standard Japanese scenario, we are up for the challenge again. This time the settings are changed:

large map due to 18 Civs
without diplomatic victory, thus only domination and conquest are possible.
emperor difficulty

I start up the game after getting the settings right and here we go

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/rat18jan1450.jpg

after moving our daimiyo, it reveals a 2nd cow, thus decide to move the settler south. Settled, built 2 ashigaru and we do now have a settler after 18 turns.

Thus, I stop and we can decide where to settle next
we are currently researching smithing after getting metal working

we are located in the south, so the land south seems to be ours, thus we should expand north
my dotmap is just a suggestion, but I would settle in the forest to the north first. More access to hills for iron is needed.
We really need the iron for bushi

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/rat18jan1459.jpg


save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/Rat18jan1459.SAV)

Roster

ThERat - played
SirBugs - up
Greebley
Empiremaker - please confirm participation
pindicator - please confirm participation

Still checking in; may be a little busy this weekend, but always for revenge!

Checking in. Looks like we have just a below average starting location. ;)

Lurker:

Below average? 3 food bonus tiles in the town and another not far, plus a long river. No desert tiles or swamp or jungle close is a below average start?

Very nice start! 2 cows + FP wheat...you better not complain about not enough food! :p

Good luck all and hope you win this time! :hammer:

Below average? 3 food bonus tiles in the town and another not far, plus a long river:lol: we are a little lucky this time. While testing the game settings (and every time something was still wrong) I got some terrible starts. This however was the first start with the final settings...because I abstain from re-rolling these days.
We will grow like weed and can churn out tons of settlers, important is that we get some iron, we do have jade in the south at least. No happy lux yet.

We will grow like weed and can churn out tons of settlers, important is that we get some iron, we do have jade in the south at least. No happy lux yet.

I've never played this scenario and I've never seen jade in a game. What does it do? :confused:

Checking in. I agree with building N first.

Jade is used for the sneaky units that occur later on, IIRC. Not sure what else.

Given how effective landings by the enemy can be, I think it a good idea to keep some Cats and boats. We can bombard boats down to 1 hp and sink them. This is much easier than removing Yama's from our homelands and might be the better option. For that reason some strong shield coastal towns would probably be a good idea.

I have it. Where do we want to settle? I'm thinking the dot NW.

NW sounds good to me. Anyway, our capital is growing fast and can churn out settlers fast. As long as we don't face bushis, the enemy won't pose a threat.

By the way, beware I popped some barbs in the hills NW, there are still 2 there somewhere

I played 20 turns.

We founded two new cities. We discovered smithing and we don't have iron anywhere nearby.

I went for pottery to get a granary in the capitol, and then we can have a settler factory. I know it is a bit unorthodox for an AW game, but with all that food I couldn't resist.

Got a second worker out of city #2. Started city 3 on a barracks.

I explored south and there is nothing but tundra and a deer down there.

I think we should be able to go in search of iron shortly. I have been holding off until we get stronger.

Our fiefdom:
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/5994/rat18dw1.jpg

Save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/32851/Rat18_Jan._1470_AD.SAV

I really like seeing everyone still playing CIVIII. I'm enjoying this and other games. The last you played I am surprised you didn't see the council of war coming and prebuild towards it. I am sure you will take of this one, easily. I love seeing all the old representatives. Kick A boys!!

expansion looks great and there is plenty of food.
But we need iron :eek:

I'd say we send out 2 ashigaru in search of iron. Hopefully there will be some and then we should expand towards that place by all means possible. Without iron, we are in trouble for sure.
Invention will give us 2/1/1 units, but we need some proper defense as well. I suggest to go for the catapult tech after invention as long as we don't have iron.

I suggest a new Roster as Greebely is still busy with Rat16

ThERat -
SirBugs - just played
Empiremaker - up
Greebley - on deck
pindicator

The last you played I am surprised you didn't see the council of war coming and prebuild towards it.Barb, you should have warned us, I admit I completely missed out on it :blush:

Old Barbslinger is back! Cheers!

Glad you accept my suggestion, TheRat.

The game has no ocean caravels. Did you remove War Counsil or replace it as MIL wonder, such as Sun Tsu, Leo or something?

The game has no ocean caravels.:blush: :blush: :blush: I think I made some real mistake here, since we cannot have a AW game where the AI wouldn't be able to cross the ocean without suicide missions...

I checked this and also found out that our map only contains 8 Civs although I clearly edited all 18...
I guess I need to restart this, sorry about this folks :(

I edited my scenario file and added all Civs, so now we would have 18 Civs. Caravels would be able to cross oceans safely...
removed the war council wonder as well

If everyone is fine, I would restart this game

Same order, with you starting ThERat? I'm fine with restarting.

EDIT: I would suggest also changing where the strategic rescources appear so that they only appear on mountains. Also, make sure the barbs are raging. If you really want to be close to the original, pre-place barb camps on the strategic rescources.

by the way, I am also inclined to increase the caravel movement from 3 to 4...

Ya, go ahead and restart.

On the war council, I was aware the risk but didn't think we could do anything about it. If I was wrong then part of the problem was the lack of knowledge about the Japanese scenario.

Did/could we get the tech before the council of war was built? If so I agree we made an error in the previous game. Its been a long time since I lost via Diplomacy in AW. I think that is part of the reason. It is a much smaller risk in normal Civ.

Did/could we get the tech before the council of war was built? If so I agree we made an error in the previous game. Its been a long time since I lost via Diplomacy in AW. I think that is part of the reason. It is a much smaller risk in normal Civ.we were too far behind in tech and there was no way to prevent it, thus I removed it...will reroll a start soon.

not being the super expert in modding, I have some issues now with Civ selection and once the game start's, it crashes the moment the human players is configured...anyone more experienced than me could have a loom at my scenario file.

My wish. Huge map with 18 Civs, but only the original 8 should be selectable..thanks for the effort

I've made this file in order to play on any size with 18 players, with original 8 selectable.

No modding with units and buildings.

Test your map. Can't inintialize on AI player 2, crash.

My map is fine with this. Feel free to remove sink in ocean for Caravel, ninja's stealth attack on shoguns, war counsil.

If my file still crashes, copy sengoku folder to scenario folder, just like RAR.

finally a new start after amendments and help from plarq (a big thanks for your help)

so this is what we got

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/rat18start.jpg

Settings: (template stolen from Greebley)
Patch: 1.22 C3C
Level: EmperorDemigod
Variant: Always War (No initial trading)
Civilization: Random
Map Type: Large Continents 70% land
Barbarians: Raging
Rivals: 17
AI Aggression: Normal
Victory Condition: Domination limits as original 35% /Conquest
Preserve Random Seed: On
Cultural Conversion: On

Caravels can't sink in ocean tiles, no War Council
Since domination limit is low, I suggest to go for conquest. I also adds more challenge to let no AI dominate us

played 20 turns this time round

moved daimyo and ashi and decided to settle at the coast. Used our daimyo for some exploration and got this from a hut the 2nd turn :dance:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/rat18jul1450.jpg

popped 2 more huts, got some money from 1 (good for deficit research) and barbs from the other. Then spotted a purple border in the south and returned home (we do not need any enemy right now)

The situation:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/rat18jan1460.jpg

We will get to know whether iron is near in 3 turns. There are 2 luxes nearby (spices and incense). Suggest to get out a settler ater the rax is done

Roster

ThERat - played
SirBugs - up
Empiremaker
Greebley
pindicator

I have it. I'll play after the Army-Navy game. The fate of the free world rests on the outcome of this game. The valiant Midshipmen must defeat the evil Black Knights of the Hudson.

Sounds a lot more epic than my Beavers wrestling with the Hawaiian Warriors. (By the way, why did Hawaii change their name? I thought Rainbows was a fierce enough name :mischief: )

Navy won. The world is safe for another year. [party]

Rat - This isn't linked up to the pedicons.txt file properly. I started reworking mine and then I realized that everyone is going to have to do this.

I am not totally sure what you mean, but could you try and copy the sengoku folder from the conquest folder into the scenario folder.
That did it for me when I had issues running the game

Let me try.

Edit - That worked.

I played 20 turns. Things are going to get dicey soon.

Pre-flight – Science drops two noches.
Jul 1460 – Nada
Jan 1461 – Science down two more.
IBT – Smithing=>Invention (29 turns at 80%)
Jul 1461 – No iron :gripe:
IBT – Barracks=>settler
Jan 1462 -

Jan 1464 – Looking around for iron I find a yellow frontier to the east.
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/3930/rat18yellowsr0.jpg

I run away for a while.

Jan 1465 – Settler=>Ashi
Jul 1465 Found Kakuda.

Jan 1470 – Settler=>ashi
The yellow civ settles closer to us.

After Action: Here’s the map. No iron in sight.
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/8919/rat181470cr2.jpg

The settler is unmoved. Figure we may want to discuss where to settle next.

Save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/32851/Rat18_Jan._1470_AD.SAV

No iron in sight.:eek:

I think we should settle towards yellow, the spot with fish in the northeast. Granted ashi's are lousy, but we might want to overrun them with an ashigaru-rush. we also need to scout the area for iron. Without it, we are in trouble.
suggest to get catapults after invention.

In case you guys cannot load the game without issues, please do copy thr Sengoku folder from the conquests into the scenario folder

Roster
ThERat
SirBugs
Empiremaker - up
Greebley
pindicator

I got it. No iron is bad.

So the plan is:

1) Settle towards yellow and hope purple doesn't make contact.
2) Overwhelm them with Ashi and Crossbows
3) Hope they have Iron but don't bother to hook it up until after they are toast.

With those goals, I would settle either the dot to the SE of Kakude or one of the dots towards yellow.

I would hook up any iron as soon as we can get it, but otherwise I agree with your game plan.

We have to find the iron first. i was looking, but nothing. :( Without iron, this will be a very short game.

0- Move settler toward the dot 3SE of Kakuda

IBT- Domestic advisor tells me that our treasury is running dangerously low. Yeah, yeah who cares?

1- zzz

IBT- Ashiagru completes. Start on settler.

Yellow has settled even closer to us.

2- zzz

3- Pop a hut and get barbs.

4- Found Fukushima

5- zzz

6- More yellow borders.

7- zzz

IBT- Settler Completes, start on Xbow

8- Send settler to 1NW of dot on spice (allows costal)

9- zzz

10- See Date city to south.

Leaving settler unmoved so that we can decide if we still want to settle by the spices which would give us contact with the Date (Purple)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Rat 18_Jan1475 KAKUDA.png

Think you got the wrong pic there Empire ;)

And The Save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Rat18_Jan._1475_AD.SAV.zip)

I can't see any image now...anyway, did we spot any iron??? We really need it

Roster
ThERat
SirBugs
Empiremaker
Greebley - up
pindicator

ok, I got it.

I spent the turn exploring and building Crossbows.

No Iron yet.

No contact yet.

A warrior fortified on a hill killed off 4 Barbarian Ash.

Notes:
Some culture would be nice so Koriyama can get whales. I would go for temples (mysticism) after we get the wheel and then head for horses. If we don't have Iron we can use the attack 3 horses. Its just a lot of techs to get there.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/Rat18_1480.jpg

If the other 2 Civs do not have iron, at least they have a defense 1 unit only. Hope our stone bows can hurt them some. Keep on exploring for the iron.

Roster
ThERat
SirBugs
Empiremaker
Greebley
pindicator - up

got it; i'll play tomorrow

That is our only hope that they don't have iron either.

There are some hills to the SE that haven't been explored yet. We may still find some iron.

If neither AI has Iron and we don't either then I think that is the worst because we will not have iron even after we conquer them.

One reason I want to hit an AI early is in case they do have iron, but don't have it connected yet.

I recently played a regular AWE game against Persia with their nasty UU who had iron while I only had Archers and was able to overcome them and grab their iron. If we don't meet more civs, then I think we can overcome a lack of iron even if they have it. Worst case is if we get a bunch of contacts or if both civs north and south of us have iron and we don't.

Since we are toward the top of the map, I think going for yellow who is likely the only civ in that direction while using the cat equivalent and stone XBows to fend of the south civ is the best direction to go. We may even be able to seriously damage Yellow before we meet purple.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/5506/loaderrorcg6.jpg

I tried going back through past posts, but couldn't find anything that helped me. I probably just missed something before.

I am not totally sure what you mean, but could you try and copy the sengoku folder from the conquest folder into the scenario folder.
That did it for me when I had issues running the game

This is the post you needed. We all have to do this.

This is the post you needed. We all have to do thisYes, unfortunately that is what is needed, but it's just a copy paste step...nothing too troublesome

Ah, I had read those instructions but I see now I just misunderstood them. Got it fixed now.

July, 1480 - Pop the hut and find some barbarians.
Learn Masonry, tech now to The Wheel

Jan, 1481 - Our southern scout survives and finds another neighbor to the southeast...

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/7739/rat181481neighborsmr9.jpg

I took a chance a couple turns later and lost to the crossbow in the open, but we have now declared war on the Date.

Nothing else really happened over the 10 turns. We have 6 crossbows and can go after yellow if we want or we can head after the Date now. Thankfully I didn't see any Bushis! But now we have three neighbors that will find us eventually. I had a picture of the empire at the end of the turn, but I have been spoiled by CIV and keep expecting the pic to save just by hitting print screen.

Save is here. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/45336/Rat18_1485.zip)

Pre-Turn
spot a barb ronin (:eek:) in the north, we are at war with Date, but I still think we should expand north and defend south
wake up units and move north

1.
run into Hojo and declare war on them

2.
march on to Chiba, defended by ashi, defeat a bow with ours

3.
defeat bow at Chiba on defense in the IT
defeat 2 ashi's in Chiba

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/rat18chiba.jpg

4.
zzz

5.
lost ashi in the south in the IT to a bow
spot Hojo capital with ashi as top defender, we should try and take them out

IT get the wheel, go for a cheap literature in 4 at 20%

6.
found Ishinomaki in between Chiba and our land

7.
we now have 5 bows and 1 ashi at their capital

8.
defeat 4 ashi's in the capital while loosing 1 bow + ashi

9.
attack again and while taking out the last ashi, get a MGL
on top of that this happens

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/rat18hojo.jpg

to top all that, we discover this :dance:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/rat18iron.jpg

unfortunately, not all is rosy
Fukushima is threatened by 4 bows

IT we're lucky as 2 ashi's defend against 2 bows in Fukushima
we get alphabet, since we have iron, we should head for Sojutsu, though it will take ages

10.
moving troops south
defeat one bow (remember our defense is rather weak, we need to be a little aggressive with attacks)
I left the MGL alone, we can send him south before forming an army.
Do we want to wait for bushi's for an army or use him for a bow army?

We also have to decide whether to research cheaper techs first, maybe we should
There is a settler in production to claim the iron. We badly need more workers but growth is slower than shields

Situation around Fukushima
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/rat18end.jpg

as you can see something is wrong with the file as the year tells me airfield :crazyeye:
so don't be surprised about my attachment year 1000BC, that's what mapstat tells me...

Roster
ThERat
SirBugsy - up
Empiremaker
Greebley
pindicator

If I come up before Monday, I'll need a skip. I will be very busy.

I would definitely wait for a Bushi army. Defense 1 armies are quickly useless and difficult to keep alive. Attack 2 isn't very hot either.

Bushi Army! Bushi Army!

I have it. I'll play tomorow evening.

Pre-flight – Jan 1490 - Build an army and leave it empty. The save is a bit messed up with crazy things appearing in the city screen, but it is playable.

IBT – A Date CB steps forward.
Sendai: Settler=>Crossbow

Jul 1490 – Bombard a Date.

IBT – Lose an ashi (0-1)

Jan 1491 – Kill the murderous Date CB. (1-1)

IBT – Kill two CB and lose an ashi (3-2)
Kakuda: CB=>CB

Jul 1491 – Kill two CB. (5-2)

IBT – Sendai: CB=>settler
Fukushima: cat=>worker

Jan 1492 – Nada.
Jul 1492 – Columbus sails for India.

IBT – Fukushima: worker=>CB
Ishinomaki: cat=>cat

Jan 1493 – Nada
IBT – defeat a CB (6-2)
Jul 1493 – Nada

IBT – Dates keep moving forward.
Kakuda: CB=>settler
Chiba: cat=>cat

Jan 1494 – Found Aironsaka (literally Iron Hill) start a cat.

IBT – Kill a CB and lose a CB. (7-3)
Sendai: settler=>CB

Jul 1494 – Kill the murderous CB. (8-3)
We now have a light green city (Mori) nearby to the east.

IBT – We lose our fortified CB on the mountain. (8-4)
Fukushima: CB=>worker

Jan 1495 – Move a settler into place.

After Action: Here is our empire:
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2271/rat181495ff3.jpg

Red dot is ready to settle. We should settle pink dot next. Once we have iron on line, then we need to get some luxes on line.

Save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/32851/Rat18_Jan._1495_AD.SAV

good turnset...

once we have iron and the bushi army, we should send it out to go after the AI. make sure they all do not have iron connected themselves. That will hurt the most and this way we can expand nicely.
We need more workers I guess

Roster
ThERat
SirBugsy
Empiremaker - skipped
Greebley - up
pindicator

Way to go, Bugsy. Nice turnset indeed! Was that the end of the evil yellow empire or do they have a few tundra cities spread out?

No more Yellow. The Rat killed them off.

Ok I got it.

Preturn: City will riot. Raise Lux.

IBT: Another unit shows up.

Jul 1495: Kill two XBow.
Settle the town mentioned by Bugsy.

Jan 1496: XBow fails to kill a XBow. Kill the XBow.

Jul 1486: Start roading last square to connect iron.

Jul 1497: We can now build Bushi. Kill 2 more XBow.
Meet Imagawa. Note that we are going to meet everyone as they send settlers up to the open area.

Jul 1498: Found Spices town.

IBT: We connect Dyes.

Jul 1499: We have 4 Date XBows near us. Bombard them with Cats and kill 2 (last 2 have 2 HP).

IBT: Win battle of our unit on the mountain and lose a sacrificial Ash

Jan 1500: Win our first Army Victory killing the 1 hp XBow. No enemies in sight.

Notes:
There is a green city near us. We haven't met that civ yet. We have met light blue and of course purple.

I accidentally hit enter but didn't move the units for the new turn.

We need more towns. Our unit cost is killing science. I would continue to build Settlers when we can. Alternatively we could disband the Ash or XBows. It would be also nice to fill the land so we don't get more enemies showing up though this will take some time to do.

We connected our second resource. If we connected the Incense too we might be able to turn off Lux entirely (need a border expansion, new town or colony)

Here is a picture:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/Rat18_1500.jpg

I think we can start expanding in the direction of the Date with our bushi and settlers. I would raze that Date city by the incense and settle a city of our own.

There is good land to the NE though I think we want to grab so we don't have 2 fronts. I do agree on the town you mention however as it gives a smaller front.

Remember we are going to get an initial rush from light blue soon.

If we do expand toward date, then keeping cities seems the way to go since they are "free" without us wasting precious population. We should starve them to size 1 though to avoid flips.

good progress Greebley

there is a lot of land to settle and grab..I leave it to the players to decide which spots are best

Roster
ThERat
SirBugsy
Empiremaker
Greebley
pindicator - up

You there pindicator? It has been over the 24 hours for the I got it now...

whoops, thought i posted that! got it and playing shortly

I started off by sending our army out to pillage and then quickly recalled it as the enemy started coming in force. Lots of crossbows and Date has a couple horsemen, so pillaging will still be a good idea when our borders are a little more secure. Good news, though, is that we

I just remembered: 2 bushi are on auto-orders to head to Tsuyama. One of them is just north of the town, the other is in the town of Kakuda. I was going to have them join our new army, which was spawned by a crossbow. Sadly, the GM xbow got gunned down in the open, but he saved a couple workers with his sacrifice.

Our kill ratio was somewhere around 13:1

Now the bad news:

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/303/rat181504barbariansbq4.jpg

Nobody has shown up yet. Maybe they are heading somewhere else to pick on people.

Here is the current situation:

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/2222/rat181504battlepathsfu4.jpg

I think we're going to be well enough with the next round of bushis to send out one of the bushi armies to pillage.

And here are the green pastures to the east.

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/2789/rat181504greenpasturesse4.jpg

We have 1 settler in the area and another due next turn but we don't have troops. Divert some of the newly made bushi out west to help expansion? Also, don't forget about the hordes of barbarians. They haven't shown up yet, but it was only 3 turns ago that we got the message.

seems like we are getting into the think of the fight now. this will be the period we have to be most aggressive. Remember once the terror pillagers show up we are in trouble. We must make sure all our cities have a defender later on.

Got it...

You guys a re so close to the Bushi Army. Get few more. Ruining the opponents is the way to win. I'm enjoying watching this

save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/Rat18_1510.SAV)

Pre-Turn
and it's year of the aifield again...hmm according to the screenshot Jul 1504
send a bow out to bust fog since I don't want to run into barbs with a settler

IT no attacks but a settler pair comes into view in the north
Oracle and Great Wall get finished by someone

1.Jan 1505AD
defeat 2 units

2.Jul 1505AD
second army filled with 3 bushi, defeat 3 units

3.Jan 1506AD.
found Tomoika to claim jade
clobber 5 enemy units [10-0]

IT a enemy settler pair gets wiped out by the barbs

4.Jul 1506AD
only bombard units, move out one army

IT Sojutsu is in, go for maths next

5.Jan 1507AD
defeat 3 units, then attack Ichinoseki, defeat 2 units
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/rat171505a.jpg

found Haranomachi in the northern ice and spot more barb ronins :eek:

6.Jul 1507AD
defeat a mere 2 units
we are short of units and need more in my mind

7.Jan 1508AD
defeat 3 units, our capital is now at 10spt

8.Jul 1508AD
since there is a short beark in enemy units, move bushi army forward

9.Jan 1509AD
autoraze Ajigasawa for 1 slave

IT maths in, CoL in 5 next

10.Jul 1509AD
defeat 3 units while moving one army into Date territory
one army retreats with the slave following

play a turn extra to even things out
defeat one more unit and capture Hirosaki, we might have to abandon it
CoL still due in 5, I would go for horses to know where Date gets them from

in the north there are some barbs, watch out. The green Civ is still unmet, I hope we can grab some more land before we meet them.
I think we should use one army to get us incense, we currently have to run 20% lux already

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/rat171510.jpg

Roster
ThERat
SirBugsy - up
Empiremaker
Greebley
pindicator

Bugs, do you know you're up?

I am guessing something came up for Bugsy. I would suggest Empiremaker go ahead and play.

I tried to be a little more lax during festive season, but for the sake of the game, empire, please take the game

Sorry, I didn't see I was up. I'll play now.

Pre-flight – Jul 1507 (Turn 120) If we want to grab some incense I think we need a settler. I switch Kakuda to one. We need more workers too, but that may have to wait.

Oct 1507 – Healing up.

Jan 1508 – Kill two, start marching our army towards the incense. Our boarders actally touch the Green civ, but no contact.

IBT – Kill two. Date begin Sun Tzu’s. That would be a nice present for us. :mischief: (4-0)

Apr 1508 – Kill two.

IBT – Lose a bushi and kill two horses. (8-1)

Jul 1508 – Kill an Ashi at Mutsu. Start marching to settle a city to the south between us and Date.

IBT - :smoke: I left a cat uncovered and it is captured. Too much Civ IV. Hirosaki has seven bushi at its gates.
CoL => MM (10 turns) (9-1)

Oct 1508 – I kill two bushi at Hirosaki, but the AI will attack our army. I abandon the city. Found Kunkou (Japanese for incense)

At Mutsu – I kill the two defending Ashi and…
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/300/rat18mutsukm5.jpg

I raze it. I don’t think we could defend it at the moment. (13-1)


Jan 1509 – Recapture our cats. Found Sunagawa. Kill two. (15-1)

IBT – We meet the Mori (light green). They want our TM. I hand them their head.

Remember that uprising? I think I found it:
http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/8879/rat18uprsingui5.jpg

Apr 1509 – Kill one. (16-1)

IBT – The SoD of barbs head south. Lose a bushi at Sunagawa.

Jul 1509 – The battle has now shifted between Sunagawa and Ichinoseki.
Kill four in that area. (20-1)

Incense is hooked up and lux goes down to 10%.

IBT – The barbs head north this time.

Oct 1509 – Lose a healthy grandmaster bushi to a redlined regular bushi :gripe:
(20-2)

IBT – Lose a bushi to a horse.

Jan 1510 – Found Rumoi. Kill two. (22-2)

Here is the situation:
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/89/rat181510qr6.jpg

Save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/32851/Rat18_Jan._1510_AD.SAV

The barbs are patroling on our eastern frontier. If the decide to come at us, let them walk into whatever city they want. You can't beat a SoD like that.

Last point - The date are building Sun Tzu in Miyako. Since they probably have their Daimyo there as well, I would attack as soon as our army is healthy.

nice turns Bugs, we should try and pus Date back before yama's come up...and I agree to pound and take their capital, would be too nice if they build SunTzu for us...or if it would be built on our continent for that matter.

Roster
ThERat
SirBugsy
Empiremaker - up
Greebley
pindicator

Empire has been very quiet lately, are you here to take your turns?

I got it. My power has been out since Friday morning, so I had no access to the forums. [pissed]

I got it. My power has been out since Friday morning, so I had no access to the forums. [pissed]
Power was out all around us, but we never lost it.

Bugs and Empire, are you both in northwest US? I got lucky and my power flickered but never went out. I heard stories of people on the Oregon coast where I grew up where people just got their power back on Monday. That was quite the storm, though! 100+mph gusts on the coast, wheh!

0- Adjust slider to get Map Making 1 turn sooner.

IBT- Bushi promotes to GM, but lose it [1-1]

1- Date are down to last few defenders in capitol. [5-1]

IBT- Lose an ahsi

Barb Ronins aren't really doing anything. [5-2]

Map Making comes in. Start on Currency'

2- Start Heroic Epic on Sendai [9-2]

IBT- Bushi promotes to GM. [13-2]

3- Retreat Bushi army

Look at Aironsaka and it was founded Jan ____4airfieldairfieldairfieldairfield...

[13-2]

IBT- Horse comes out of fog and destroys Rumoi. [13-3]

4-Recapture Cats

IBT- WW kicks in

5- [16-3]

IBT- Matsunaga complete Sun Tzu's in Osaka. [17-3]

Kill a barb Ronin. Haranomachi may be sacked soon.

6-Found Haboro on the ruins of Rumoi

IBT- More WW

7- Increase lux tax to 30%. [17-4]

8- Meet Oda, Declare war.

Really light blue (Unkown Civ) has a city in the fog to the North-east of us.

Start a push with the two armies to destroy Date's capitol.

IBT- Currency to HBR.

Date have Yamabushi, switch some builds to spears to try and protect cities.

9- Not much [18-4]

IBT- Lose a 4/4 spear to a reg horse. [20-6]

10- Capture enemy settler.

Final Kill count- 25-6

Settler still unmoved so that we can discuss.

I've been having troubles with easy upload, so I can't provide a pic.

The Save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Rat18_Jul1512AD.SAV.zip)

hmm, sounds like a rough ride again and I fear we missed the window of opportunity to take out Date, Bushi's are no match for Yamas. We need to make sure we protect every single city with at least 1 defender... and we need a better army.

Greebley is up...

If the Date have yamabushi, we're toast. We have too large a front. We will be pillaged back to 4000 BC.

Ok, I got it.

Our empire looks in bad shape. Looks like the reason is that WW is up to 100% (or more) already. Its civ4 all over again with crazy WW. If we don't win this one we may also want to remove WW from the Japanese Govts as well. We have several Lux, are running 30% Lux, and most size 4 and 5 cities are unhappy - though more defenders will help with that. Problem is that defenders are not cheap to build. I checked and 50% Lux would be needed to have no specialists.

Preturn:
A lot of exposed units. I attempt to cover them with Spears and such.

IBT: We get lucky and 2 Horsemen die attacking 2 Bushi.

Oct 1512: Attack Date capitol and kill 2 Yama's. Move both Armies onto the same square so if one gets badly injured the other can defend.
Kill a nearby Bushi.

IBT: Light blue Yama shows up.

Jan 1513: Kill 4 Ash in Dates Capitol - still more to go and I may have to heal soon.
I cover what I can but the range of the Yama is huge. Some towns have only 1 defender.

IBT: Well somehow it worked as the Yama goes back out of sight again. I am going to try to always keep everything covered and hope this is sufficient to discourage more Yamas.
A town up north absorbs one of the many Barbs. I am moving out the defenders so we can get rid of the barbs with little loss.

Great Library built by Takeda (never met).

Apr 1513: Kill 2 more Ash in the Date Capitol while the other Army heals.
Kill a Bushi and 2 XBows near Haboro. Move units out of Tomoika so it can absorb Barbs in the IBT. (also make sure we are running positive gold as the barbs will likely take our 9 gold).

Jul 1513: Kill another Bushi and XBow. Another Yama in the city so we heal yet another turn. We just can't get a break to take the city. It is sad.

IBT: Light Blue landing. Absorb 19 Barbarians.

Oct 1513: Finally kill Date. Kill the landed unit.
Lower Lux to 10%. Kill some XBow in our territory.

IBT: Absorb about 10 more Barbs. Yama is now near the cities absorbing Barbs so that is the end of that.

Jan 1514: Armies heal. Kill a horse that entered our territory.

IBT: Hit by disease in ichnoseki.

Apr 1514: Army spots an Oda Horseman.

Jul 1514: Meet the Miyoshi (the lighter blue color). Capture two settlers. Kill one of the Oda Horses. It is very hard to tell the Miyoshi and Imagawa apart.
I settle Soma in the NE.

Number of turns to riding dropped due to meeting the Miyoshi from 3 to 1.

IBT: Get HBR.

Oct 1514: Kill off a few more units.

IBT: Spot an Samuri Archer.

Jan 1515: Kill a few more units.

Notes:
We are really stretched thin. I had barely enough to handle the situations and sometimes had to let an enemy unit wander in our territory a bit. Covering everything made it even harder - for example workers couldn't go on to another square if some of a stack was used since I had nothing to cover the second stack with. So worker actions were less efficient. With Samari Archers and Yama on the scene, I think we will be hard pressed to not start losing stuff.

On the plus side the Yamas have not entered our territory to pillage. If they did it would be all over.

It feels like we are even more behind in tech than last time.

The Armies are wandering back home. They grabbed some settlers so we have some workers to escort. I think having one army for defense and one to take out cities to the East makes sense. That is where I would send them.

We may be able to do 4 turns for the lower line of techs which would help some. Myst we get in 4 turns at 10% science.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/Rat18_1515.jpg

great turns, Greebley :goodjob:
gettting rid of Date will help and it surely dropped WW a lot.

It feels like we are even more behind in tech than last time.
I can't understand that really. We took out a Civ early and expanded, we are a difficulty setting lower and on continents. Somehow, tech trading seems crazy...
Let's hope we can hang on until we get some better units and armies to take out more threatening targets.

Roster
ThERat
SirBugsy
Empiremaker
Greebley
pindicator - up

Hmmm, if I don't play within 24 hours I'm not going to be able to play until next Wednesday. Holidays and all! So feel free to skip me this round if I don't get anything up by then.

Sorry for the intrusion:

I'm thinking the continents play explains the quick trading prior to MM (or this scenarios equivilant) and the island civs getting in the mix. It should settle down soon.

Persevere gents!

I think were behind in tech because we don't know very many civs.

ThERat,
You are up now.

Roster
ThERat - Up
SirBugsy - On Deck
Empiremaker
Greebley - Just Played
pindicator - gone until Wednesday

got it...I will play tomorrow...

guess we need to relax the 24/48 for xmas anyway...and guys, have a nice :xmas:

I'll be gone from the 27th through the second. I may have limited access to the forums at best.

save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/Rat18_1520.SAV)

Pre-Turn
things looks at towns, the overall picture, well

IT lose exposed bushi

1.
discover that we know a lot of Civs and are at peace with them....why is that so? declare on no less than 8 Civs....

defeat 3 units including a settler pair

IT this is crazy, a 1hp unit attacks one of ours and wins....

2.
defeat 2 units, but 1 bushi ends up exposed

IT we lose the exposed bushi, we declare on yet another Civ, light blue clears all the barbs for us :)
we get mysticism, ancestor worship next at 30% science

3.
increase lux to 20%, capture Minokawa

4.
defeat a settler pair outside Minokawa, but there is a Yama around, so we need to be careful here

IT the Yama is happy to pillage the horses at Minokawa, not that we need them anyway

5.
use our bushi army to kill that Yama
defeat 3 units to open the path back for the workers we captured

IT an exposed bushi kills a horse but loses to the 2nd attack, however, that was planned anyway to free a path

6.
defeat another settler pair at Minokawa and the slaves connect that city to our core
start assault on Iwakuni, redline both units but defeat 2 defenders
use horse to take the city :)
reduce science to 0%

IT :eek: almost lose a bushi army in Minokawa as it is attacked by 4 units, on the positive note, we kill them all
ancestor worship is in, construction in 4 next at 40% science

7.
take out a few units in strategic positions to be able to found a new city, it's difficult enough with all those units around

IT lots of units around Minokawa, that way at least we can keep the pressure off the rest

8.
found Shiroishi
declare on another Civ...
kill some random units, debate whether to abandon Minokawa
too many units around it, decide to retreat and abandon city

IT lose expsoed bushi

9.
nothing much, prepareing for the units to come forward

IT another Yama turns up but more to the north, this is not good

10.
decrease science to 0% and contruction still in next turn, we need 2 more techs to revolt and soon go for Yama's
start to attack Tamashima, one unit left there, we should be able to take it soon
defeat 2 intruders, but lose a bushi

the situation, the Yama is there and could reach the slaves, next player to decide what to do
I think we should expand there to close the front and narrow it

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/rat181520.jpg

Roster
ThERat
SirBugsy - up
Empiremaker - away from 12/27 to 1/2
Greebley
pindicator - gone until 27th

We only knew four civs in the preturn so all 8 civs were met in the first IBT (I double checked this). I am assuming the tech for communication was learned and traded around. Not sure what tech that is but it would tell us where the AI is in terms of learning techs.

I would switch a town or two to a settler. I think we want to fill up our lands faster rather than slower and some of the AI towns are not ideally located. If we can close off the roads to the north and start taking towns up there, then that would be ideal I think. Then Yamas couldn't get up north without landing in a boat.

:) :xtree: :xmascheers: :santa2: :snowcool:

Merry Christmas to all my teammates!
:xmastree: :xmastree: :xmastree:

I have it. I'll play tomorrow after the initial Christmas moring routine.

Sorry I haven't played yet. I'll get it tonight.

Bugs any chance that you can play. If I don't hear anything by today, I think we continue with a skip and maybe empiremaker (should be back by today)

Sorry, I'll have it posted this evening.

Start playing the 1510 AD save and realize I have the wrong one. Go back and get the right one.

Pre-flight – Jul 1517 – We know 14 civs and we’re at war with all of them. We have a huge front line. That yamabushi can get our slaves. From now on we have to keep everything covered. Virtually our entire civilization can be hit by a yama.

This map also doesn’t have any choke points where you could control anything. We have a huge front. The best thing I guess would be to drive southeast and spread out from the coast.

I set up an temporary yama wall and hope that a yama can’t come out of the city to the east. (see screenshot)
http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/8029/rat181517yamawallwk9.jpg

There are some workers north of there that can be hit as well.
Cross the fingers and hit enter.

IBT – We lose a wounded bushi at an internal city. The yama runs around our wall but doesn’t get far enough. Ancestor Worship =>Shinto Precepts (due in 4 with +4gpt)

Oct 1517 – Since we happen to have a horse right next to it, we bombard and capture Tamashima
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7441/rat18tomashimakb7.jpg

Kill a few loose horses.

At Inuyama – we kill two yama, our bushi army is turned yellow and we raze the city.
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/1051/rat18inuyamatb9.jpg

IBT – The troublesome yama goes off and kills a barb. Then four barbs attack him. Making him grandmaster. Orange makes a major push up the middle. Kill two horses.

Jan 1518 – Kill four orange guys at Kunkou.

IBT – An orange yama attacks a bushi protecting three slaves and puts them to the sword. The light blue yama attacks a barb ronin, is redlined and then runs off to heal.

Apr 1518 - The mountain south of Kunkou is orange’s target. I pry two crossbows off the mountain while losing a bushi then plant a spear there.

Kill five assorted bushi/crossbow/ashi.

IBT – The Orange yama drives deep and attacks our daimyo, who I left all by his lonesome :smoke: We win without a lost HP.

Jul 1518 – I upgrade our daimyo for 177G. Pick off six invaders. There is now a mini stack of orange crossbows (7) threatening Hasbro.

IBT – Orange attacks once at Hasbro, kills a spear then moves on to Kunkou.
Shinto Precepts =>Feudalism (due in four at +3gpt) At least we can research at a nice pace. Our far western horse is pillaged.

Oct 1518 – Pick off ten units plus five in the orange stack. There is a light blue galley sailing up the northern coast. We have to hire a few clowns.


To be continued...

IBT – Kill two attackers.

Jan 1519 – Picking off stray bushi we have this happy event:
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/2296/rat18leaderhi4.jpg

I then proceed to lose the bushi army to the south attacking a yama defended light blue city. :gripe:

IBT – we kill six enemy units but lose the bushi and spear on the Kunkou mountain. The light blue galley spots some barb galleys and starts running away. The barbs take chase.

Apr 1519 – We retake the mountain with our new army and get a promotion inside it. Kill one stray.

IBT – Samurai Archers (4.4.1) are starting to show up. Retreat a horse. Looks like that galley won’t be dropping off anyone behind our lines.

Jul 1519 – Kill three strays. Moving to reconnect the horses. Science down a notch., lux up a notch. MM our specialists so our economy is at -1gpt.

IBT – A yama heads into our interior.

Oct 1519 – Pick off two strays. Cover the workers. Lose a bushi killing the wounded yama.

IBT – another yama appears and a bunch of sam archers head our way.
Feudalism=>Bojutsu (yama tech) We revolt and a city riots.

Jan 1520 – Found Iwagawa and Iwaki on the front line. We drew a seven turn anarchy. That might do us in. Sorry about that everyone.

The AI are still hitting the center of the front.

Save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/32851/Rat18_Jan._1520_AD.SAV

I then proceed to lose the bushi to the south attacking a yama defended light blue city. :gripe:

I assume you mean Bushi Army here?

Empiremaker is up. I will only take it if he doesn't post an "I got it" in the next 2 days.

I got it. Sam archers and we don't even have Yama.

What's our tech plan? Beeline to War Council, or go for Sam Warriors?

no war council in this game, it's disabled otherwise we would lose anyway...I'd say we need techs that give us better units, urgently. But as I see it, most of your turns will be spent in anarchy anyway, empire. In case cities are in danger of starving, let them revolt every other turn.

Roster
ThERat
SirBugsy
Empiremaker - up
Greebley
pindicator

0- Lots of enemy units around.

7 more turns of anarchy.

IBT-Lose spear [1-2]

Jade pillaged by yama

1-Barb Ronin move towards Soma, retreat units from city.

Xbows WILL be attacked by Yama.

Lose a *Grandmaster to a Sam Archer.

Use the Daiymo to take out a Yama, or else we would lose a city.

[5-3]

IBT- Soma's production, 1 people are lost. [7-4]

2- Continue to MM to prevent starvation. [10-5]

IBT- Gain leader on defense, but then lose the leader.

Lose more people in Soma, 4 gold.

Kakuda starves. [11-6]

3- Not too much [14-8]

IBT- Lose Shiroisi. [14-12]

4- Not much more.

IBT- Lose army, Haboro, Worker stack. [15-15]

Barb uprising near Aironsaka!!! This is very bad since it means that two civs are in the third age. OUCH!!

5- No new units.

NOTES:
We're likely screwed
We're likely dead
We're close to losing

2 more full turns of anarchy.

We may want to redefend Soma.

Otsua only has Ashi defending.

5+ Samurai archers in ShiroishiAt some point soon there will be Samurai Warriors/ Mounted Samurai.

I stopped playing since we need to discuss, and I feel that I'm not playing well in this tough time.

The Save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Rat_18_Apr._1521.SAV.zip)

Screen in a few minutes if Easy Upload works for me.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/April_1521.png

Roster
ThERat
SirBugsy
Empiremaker
Greebley - up
pindicator

sounds very rough, hope Greebley can keep us in the game...

I think the anarchy may set us back too far. it should give us a better economy so we can research faster.

I will try and see what I can do.

Not sure if you heard of this easter egg:
I went into the game to play and our leader was replaced by Elvis. This happens only on his birthday which happens to be today (looked it up in the wikipedia).
You can load the game and hear him mutter about fried banana sandwhiches if you want.

BTW I am playing now but it is slow going. To say we are outclassed is a major understatement.

Preturn: Minor unit movement as suggested (e.g. protect Soma).

IBT: Samuri on a Hill next to our town.

Jul 1521: Kill Samuri on hill with Army. Kill an XBow

IBT: 4 Samuri appear next to Sunagawa.

Oct 1521: Attack and kill a stack of 4 Samuri.
FYI, I tend to replay misclicks that will cost us. I think the random seed is not saved in this game so you won't get the same results. I am going to start to save after each battle so I don't have to replay any of them.

Change up all the builds as we exit Anarchy. We really need some more MP's so I am building a few XBows in towns that need them. Running Lux at 50% this turn and still have a number of Specialists. We NEED the building that reduces WW by 4. Problem is we need units even more.

IBT: Samuri attacks our healing Army on the mountain! Fortunately, it retreats at size 1 back into the city. The AI now has a Samuri next to our town on a mountain (so attack and defense of 6 when we can only get at best attack and defense of 3). This town is very vulnerable - problem is that it is our incense town which we lose if we abandon it. Fortunately, the civ on it only has the one Samuri nearby. Another civ has 7! Samuri show up in a stack and there are 7 more from another civ.

Lose an XBow that was exposed eliminating the Samuri threat.

Here is a picture of the situation (I selected Elvis just for fun :D )
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/Rat18_1522.jpg

Jan 1522: Army now has 1/2 its HP back. Lose a Horse to an injured Samuri. Bombard and kill the Samuri on the hill and put several units on it. It is the only hope of saving the city. I think I have enough to have the AI go around but it is a gamble based on past AI behavior. If not it could be bad as we would likely lose the Army.
Set prebuilds for Yamas in many of the cities with Barracks. It will solve some of the Samuri problems to build them, but it also takes a while to complete and we have to live that long. Lux is staying at 50%. I need to send more Bushi to the front line so the units built aren't MP as originally planned. There are 16 Samuri visible now and I have nowhere near enough units to deal with this.

IBT: The mountain is NOT attacked by the 10 odd Samuri around it. This shunts the big stack of 7 to the east rather than next to the city and another stack of 4 gets no closer. We have only 4 Samuri to deal with this turn.

Apr 1522: Our cats do terrible - only 2 hits. Kill one Samuri.
We lose two Bushi attacking the Samuri. We have to give up the mountain - we cannot defend both the town and it. That probably means giving up the town next turn and lose the lux unless the AI is really dumb or some yokel grabs the mountain before the Samuri move. We needed better RNG. I don't see any way around exposing two Bushi to further attack (one though has good odds to win and one will likely get clobbered).

I am going to stop here to ask the team - I may be able to better hold the line if I actively use our leader. This puts him at risk. I would only go for attacks with good odds.

So question for the team: Can I use our leader Elvis to try to stem the tides? If we can survive to Yamas with most of our towns intact, we might have a chance (I would still call it slim though). If I don't use him then additional towns might be lost before we get the Yamas. Using the leader risks the whole game, but is worth it in my mind because we need all the strength we can get. I see us losing by being overrun much more likely than by leader loss at this point.

use Elvis the pelvis :lol:
but seriously, if things are that grim, use him by all means...how many turns are we away from yamas?

We are 3 turns away in terms of tech, but getting 60 shields in size 6 towns with many that are forced to use specialists makes that the longer part. Our capitol will build the first in around 5 turns at a guess.

I am hoping after the Yamas that we can build the anti-WW buildings so we can grow bigger and get more shields in our cities.

Geisha houses are available NOW (With Feudalism). They reduce WWW by 1 level in the city, provide 4 content faces, and give a 50% production bonus. All for the bargain price of: 200 shields.

Nice job Greebley. I'd use the leader, but be careful. It currently has the same attack as the defense of a Yama.

Note: When I said Samuri - I meant Samuri Archers. So things aren't as bad - the real Samuri with Def and Attack of 7 would slaughter us without much difficulty.

IBT: Seven Green Samuri Archers step between two towns. Stack of two injured ones still within our territory.

Jul 1522: Bombard the Green stack but do little damage. I kill the two injured ones but it costs us two Bushi due to horrid RNG.

IBT: Keep our spice town but costs us 2 Spear, a Bushi and a Horse and kills 2 Samuri Archers. Our town Imagawa was Destroyed.

Oct 1522: Bombard Green Stack to 1 hp and kill all 4 Samuri Archers in the stack. Army kills an XBow and the last of the Green Samari Archers.
Our Leader becomes Elite. Next turn we have a stack of 4 more Archers to deal with. Real question is where they will go.
We can lower science all the way to 10% and still get the tech next turn. I raise Lux to 60% - the level we need to put all the scientists to work.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/Rat18_Oct_1522.jpg

IBT: More stacks of Samuri Archers on the Horizon. Yama enters our territory and stops on a mountain.
The stack of 4 Samuri go between the two towns and are not yet a threat.

Jan 1523: Scramble a bit to guard our back towns but I think it is ok. Move cats toward the stack of 4 Samuri.
Rush 2 Yamas so they complete next turn.

IBT: A lot of activity to the East - Several Samuri Archers are in the area. Built only one of the Yama's since the Enemy Yama changed our production from 10 to 8 making us 2 shields short to build the Yama (short rushed)

April 1523: Kill the stack of 4 Samuri Archers, but lose an Grandmaster and Vet Bushi doing so.
Try to get the Samuri Archers to head toward our Catapults and the old disputed area by moving our leader (he is in the town I think they are heading for, but is safe since they are still a turn away). Yama will make it to the town before the S. Archers will.
Army deals with Yama in our territory.
Still running High Lux to build more Yamas quickly.

IBT: Well Iwakuni has 11! Samuri Archers move next to it with 7! more one turn away. It is doomed.

Jul 1523: Abandon Iwakuni. Bombard one of the stacks of Samuri (cats guarded by Yama and Army). Lose a Grandmaster Bushi attacking an XBow!

IBT: Samuri Archers head back West for the most part. Yama pillages our only Horse. A third Yama is built. Random barb kills a citizen up north.

Oct 1523: Lose a Bushi attacking a Bushi. Kill two Samuri Archers with the Army which goes to 1 HP on the second one. It is in the town with the Yama so hopefully safe.

Notes:
We are down two towns from before. Not suprising - the anarchy period really came at a hard time leaving us with few troops just before a mass invasion of S. Archers.

Near our abandoned towns are a LOT of Samuri Archers. Expect them soon.

There is a bug that occurs where if you don't explicitly set something - I think the tech rate - you get the last game you played. I suspect the reason the AI is so fast in tech may very well be that bug - tech prices are based on a standard map. If we play again I think we should explicitly pick a bigger tech rate number to slow tech way down. I think that is why the AI got to the last age so quickly though.

GL to the next player. I am hoping you can switch to building some settlers and possibly get some Geisha buildings built. I am fearing the large number of Samuri archer (or worse showing up) that may over-run us. We will see.

If you are willing to MM more often, I didn't MM for the specific turn, just in general (so getting a town to 12 shields building yama - even if it only needed 8 for one turn and could get more gold. There is more exact MMing that can be done, but then you need to remember to MM when things finish.

The civopedia doesn't list the production boost for the Geisha Houses - are you sure of that Empiremaker? ( It just lists the 4 content) Note that you could be right as I have not played this scenario - it is odd the civopedia doesn't mention anything though.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/Rat18_Oct_1523.jpg

:eek: you kept us alive, but unless we are able to expand, I fear we will sink and be defeated sooner or later...let's see

I also don't understand the tech speed, but maybe the AI has much more cities and thus a much faster pace...we are sort of playtesting this and with the wrong settings...all my fault..sorry to the team :sad:

Roster
ThERat
SirBugsy
Empiremaker
Greebley
pindicator - up

I'm sure that Geisha produce 50% prodution, as in the editor they have '2' under production, like a factory.

Ok, that makes the Geisha higher priority in my mind if we ever have time to build them. Perhaps we should have at least one town building them.

BTW, a decent number of elite victories and no leader when we really need one.

If pindicator can get through his turn without losing a city, I will consider that a success. We are still recovering from a unit low after the Anarchy. We probably won't expand until we get another leader and/or more units. Not sure we will win this especially if real Samuri show up soon.

Okay, grabbing the save now and will try to play Wed or Thurs

subscribe post

I would always be building a geisha house in one city.

Yamas, settlers and cats.

Ya, definitely build cats. Remember at some point the cost doubles for only +1 bombard strength so the more we have before then the better.

Okay, grabbing the save now and will try to play Wed or Thurspindicator, this is long overdue...have we given up? Unless I hear something, I will play tonight then

didn't play last night and now another big game is up, pindicator, if you can, please pick this up and play your set...

Go for it Rat.

Oh shoot! I'm sorry guys, this was just a case of me forgetting. I'm getting way too wrapped up in the Civ4 SGOTM and forgot I had other obligations here as well :( Go ahead and take it Rat.

Apologies again, everyone.

will play tomorrow night as I am playing the huge GR game right now

save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/Rat18_Oct_1533.SAV)

Pre-Turn
so, let's see how many turns we can survive here

IT no attacks, but that Yama pillaged our spices

1.
kill the intruder
defeat another 3 intruders, not too bad

IT one sam archer perishes againt our yama defender

2.
defeat 1 unit and bomb one of the big Oda sam archer stacks

IT Oda's change direction north...this is not good

3.
take out 3 sam archers, but lose an elite bushi

4.
Iwaki is the new target, we better get some yamas there
take out a settler pair, that crossed our land

Iwaki is threatened by 4 sam archers

IT our yama beats 2 and we have an army :dance:
unfortunately, he is then killed, but a bushi fights off the last sam archer
more pile up...

5.
form army, which I leave empty, don't want the army to die there
manage to pull 3 yamas inside the city, but there are 12 sam archers :eek:

try and pull one last stunt and fill army with 2 spears + yama

IT those sam archers smash simply everything, they kill all units except our daimyo and in a funny twist, they also defeat the Mori to take out their 3 sam archers that would have surely defeat us

6.
we get to live another turn, decide to play all or nothing
pull our bushi army inside Iwaki
lower science to 0%

IT we defeat 1 sam archer and live longer, the others retreat to heal
we get bujutsu, not that this would help

7.
we run 50% lux..quite ridiculous
no real action

8.
defeat 1 sam archer, the rest is healing and will come back

9.
zzz

10.
we will not really make any prgress unless we get some sam archer armies

I badly lost the amry we got, but we were very close to losing, which I think we will anyway

Bugs, you can try your luck until we get sam archers, maybe that will help...

Good job Rat. Ifwe get Samurai archers before enemy Samurai warriors,I think we'll be fine.

OK, I have it.

:bump: Been a week...

ok, we waited long enough, Empiremaker can you take some turns?

ThERat -
SirBugs - skipped
Empiremaker - up
Greebley - on deck
pindicator

seems like a similar fate as I had with the last SGOTM...Greebley can you take 10 turns?

Ok, I will see what I can do.

I didn't see ThERat's post saying I was up. Can I trade with Greebley, if Sunday isn't too late to play? My bad.

Greebley can play his turns and you can take your on the weekend then, Empire...

:blush: I am sorry guys. :spank: I need to be beaten.

Preturn: Have our leader guard the one unguarded town - the town it is in has enough guardians.

Builds look like I would choose so no changes there.

The name of the save is 1533 but this is not the year. I think the year I played is more sensible though. 1533 is too many years away for 10 turns.

IBT: Samuri Archer attacks our Army and loses. (1-0)

Jul 1526 AD: Kill of 2 Sam Archers. Cannot do more without risking units. We could use some horsemen to attack and retreat. (3-0)

IBT: Oda has destroyed the Miyoshi.

Oct 1526 AD: About 1/2 the towns near us are gone. They Miyoshi were one of the civs nearby. Now all cities we see are Imagawa. Started a settler or two just to try to see if we can grab anything.

We kill several of the Imagawa (3). There are 3 Oda near our Army - I have moved a Yama into the city as well.

IBT: Trade Network started by Takeda. BTW, I am almost positive we have the bug where the Tech rate is all messed up because the tech rate is set to standard. IIRC, you have to start a huge game before you start a scenario like this ( or set the tech rate directly). I think this game would be going much better if we had a higher tech rate so that Sam Archers weren't showing up before we can establish ourselves.

Fortunately, Takeda is not sending units at us - we would not survive the Samuri Warriors.

Jan 1527: Kill 2 Oda Samuri that were going around our city. Momentary lull in troop attacking us.

IBT: We are attacked by 2 Ninja so much for a lull. They can come out of nowhere to attack. Lose 2! Yamas on defense. Not a good round We kill one Sam Archer. We are suddenly more unhappy and I am unsure why - I though WW was already at max.

Apr 1527: Bombard but can do nothing else.

IBT: The Ninja can choose which unit to attack and kill the only Horseman we have. Worse it can now go any number of ways and we really have noone to stop it. Yama lands on our Horses and will pillage them next turn.

Jul 1627: Kill the Ninja that attacked our Horse.
We cannot survive without our cities working full shields - I bite the bullet and raise Lux to 70% and turn off Science.
Again we cannot kill any attackers as we will lose units we can't afford to. All we are doing is bombarding and letting them heal.

IBT: Our horses are pillaged.
Two towns riot even though our Lux is at 70%. This game is not at all fun to play.

Oct 1527: We kill the Yama that got our Horses. We built 2 Yama which help. Take advantage of a momentary Lull to try to take out that one city near us. We send our Cats and offense. It may fail, but our towns will fall if we do nothing as well. A bit of a gamble.

Jan 1528: We do capture the city though a Yama attacking a 1 hp Sam Archer gambit doesn't work and we lost a Yama (second one kills it and takes the city). We killed a Sam Spear (7 def), a Yama, and 3 or 4 Sam Archers.
We are also using the cash we are saving to upgrade our Stone Archers to Sam Archers.

Apr 1528: I hope to replace Haboro before it flips with a city of our own (due in 2). Fortunately the city is small.
Otherwise fortify. There is another annoying Yama to deal with.

IBT: Yama goes deeper into our territory. See more Sam Archers.

Jul 1628: Kill off the Yama.

IBT: 4 Ninja attack a city and kill a Yama (they can choose to target the injured one) and nearly take the city.
Haboro falls via Ninja. we lost a Bushi and a Yama.

Oct 1628: Kill some Sam Archers, recapture Haboro. Army gets badly injured and will heal.

This is a bad turn to stop so one more...

IBT: We see Imagawa fighting Ninja. Another Yama deep in our territory. Lose a Yama to a Sam Archer - Win vs a Sam Archer with my Yama

Jan 1529: Abandon Haboro and build Son of Haboro. Retreat units to cities. Kill a Sam.

Notes:
We need to start building non-units infrastructure like Geisha House and stuff like that. We have been so hard pressed I havent been really able to.

Not sure if 0 science 70% lux is the correct way to go. We have upgraded most units so turning science on again might now be wise. We could also consider speeding up builds. I feel we may have to keep Lux high until Geisha Houses are built. I would set one or two cities to them if we can (I did this in the past but had to switch to keep the game alive).

An Oda boat just appeared in the North. Beware it as we are less well defended. We might even have to rush something to get ready for a landing.


http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/Rat18_1529.jpg

I am sorry guys. I need to be beaten.Ok, I will comply here :spank:

I am almost positive we have the bug where the Tech rate is all messed up because the tech rate is set to standard.Have to agree here and it's all my fault. Add the fact that WW is terrible and this game is somewhat unfun :(

I got it. I will play this weekend.

0- Reduce Lux tax to 60

IBT- Oda drops off Yamabushi near Aironsaka

Ninja continue to attack.

1- Shuffle troops to protect Arionsaka.

Send a Yama scouting south.

IBT- Lose scouting Yama.

2- Caravels have no attack or defense, so a single galley can sink them.

3- Not much

4- zzz

5- Use Kill a Yama in the N with the Diaymo.

6- Declare on the Mogamai

7- Send settlers out

8- Samurai Warriors have appeared on our borders.

Sink a Caravel

Leader!! Will use for Yama (Pillaging) army.

Found Matushima

IBT- The RNG favored us. A 3/5 Sam Archer killed a 5/5 Sam Warrior and a 3/3 sam archer.

9- Found Muriamya

Sink a caravel

IBT- Ninjas on the mountain South of Matsushima

Barb Uprising near Soma- TWO civs have finished Tech tree, INCLUDING ODA and Shimazu!!

10- Fill Yama army

NOTES:

Imagawa are sending Samurai warriors against us.

Beware of Ninja; Use Yamabushi to scout borders.

Expect some Samurai Arquebusiers (10{4.2.2}.8.1) soon.

Enemy units have been light- there must be an AI-AI war somewhere.

Sendai should build the Izumo shrine next.

DO NOT RESEARCH Suleijutsu, as we will not be able to build gallies, the only boat with combat strength.

Continue to build gallies, for scouting and caravel sinking.

Most Enemy cities are defended by Samurai Spearmen (4.7.1).

We may turn sci back on, but we are about halfway through 40 turn research, so we may want to finish the current tech with a lone scientist, and then turn sci on high for some quick techs, but we should keep at least 200 gold so that we could rush a Yama.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/APR_1531.png

The Save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Rat18_Apr_1531AD.SAV.zip)

looks like a turnset with good progress...yes, let's keep building galleys to sink the enemy.

Since the AI reached the end of the tech tree, it will be hard sloggin all the way, since a SS and UN victory is out.

Bugs or pindicator, anyone of you want to take this???

ThERat -
SirBugs - skipped
Empiremaker - just played
Greebley - swapped with emire
pindicator - up

I'm already up in another SG. I could get to it maybe on Tuesday, more likely on Thursday

I'm sorry guys, I think i'm going to need to be dropped from the rosterk or at least skipped another week. There was a lot on my plate already and now work is taking up more of my days with half the office out with the flu.

i see what I can do

I'll grab it right after you Rat so I don't forget.

Bugs, I won't be able to play today, why don't you take the save and play a set

Me thinks bugsy is still busy. You going to be able to play ThERat?

thought he could play, but...ok I will play later today..first need to figure out which files are missing since I have a new computer

ok: just tried and can play...in a few hours

save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/Rat18_Apr_1536AD.SAV)

Pre-Turn
need o get rid of hat yama hat could pillage our jade, bombard, retreat and then attack with our daimyo and get a MGL
good start
restart research again, we have enough cash

IT almost lose a yama against a samurai, but am lucky

1.
not much happening, defeat a redlined yama with bushi army and start to form a sam archer army

2.
Oda has a ton of money, if we can raze their cities, we will be able to research that much faster

3.
fill sam archer amry and march towards the east, it would be nice to establish a much more narrow frontline

IT Murayama is attacked by sam archers, get another MGL during the defense
defeat 2nd arcjer, but a ninja takes out one of the yamas...redline left again, but we escape

4.
defeat the ninja
defeat 2 yamas and take Atamai giving us control of a nice front

IT unit run towards Atami as expected

5.
take Fujiyoshida, move troops, we need more yamas to be safe

IT Oda now took out Imagawa :dance:
all those sam warriors are gone
we get kenjutsu, select iajutsu, we ultimately want the Mil Academy and 4 unit armies

6.
there is a lot of land now empty for us to use
switch a town to settler...send out another

7.
move towards a small Oda city, the money we could get is nice
spot a arquebusier, 10/8 stats :eek:
send a settler to the east

IT the arque moves towards our land
an Oda ninja defeats a sam archer that was in fact trying to attack us :lol:

8.
move forces towards Izu...
kill ninja outside Matsuyama..bombarding the arque didn't really work

IT the arque doesn't attack, but moves back

9.
found Rumoi
defeat 4 units in Izu, one must be a ninja as it is invisible to our units

IT this was the most bizarre turn I have had in C3C
invisible units were attacked and attacking
we defeated 4 units, but lost 1...barely holding on Matsushima

10.
send settler east, we can found city next turn (another settler on the way)
defeat another 3 units, capture Izu and take 475gold

move in 2 yama's. but next player needs to decide whether we can keep that city

I suggest to build more yama's, they really help us a lot. Sam archer armies are very good on the offense

situation, note there is space to expand
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/rat181536.jpg


ThERat -
SirBugs - can you play
Empiremaker - on deck
Greebley -
pindicator


this game is now real fun to play, really. I do think we have a chance to slowly creep our way forward. we do have 4 armies and if we play well, can manage to defeat the enemy

I will be gone through Friday, so I'll have to be skipped until then. We got lucky with Oda taking out the Imagawa. What did that do to our WW?

Greebley, why don't you grab the save and play your turns...else this game won't move ever

ok, I got it.

I have started but it is slow going. Both ninjas and Yamas have been showing up and so I need to be very careful. Also an substantial attack is coming from the other direction. It looks much more than a landing and I am afraid we may have a two front war again.

Preturn: Fortify Sam Archer Army to heal. Pillaged with a Yama Army to slow enemy troops. Switched some builds to Geisha Houses. We need some infrastructure - Aquaducts and Geisha houses - going for the Geisha first so we get more shields and might be able to lower Lux rates. Some more settlers too.

BTW, ThERat, the years of your saves disagree with what year I am playing. Do we have the same years? My game says I am starting in Jul, 1533 but your save name is Apr 1536.

IBT: Oda has some fights on its hands with Ninja. Some units advance.

Oct 1533: We raze Izu (Oda) for 479 gold. Use the cash to hurry a Geisha house. We don't need very much cash to run full science.

IBT: A city in our back yard.

Jan 1534: Kill the two nearby Samuri Warriors with Armies (need to heal). Start moving some units toward the new (Urakami) city in the back.

IBT: Some more annoying Ninja.

Apr 1534: Spot our first Mounted Samuri - a 7-7-2 unit. Covering our units from Ninjas is very tricky. They can kill any unit in a stack so I need to use the Yama Armies in two places to attack the Ninja so they don't put some units at risk (that need to heal).

Find the Urakami forces behind our lines are substantial. Not sure where they all came from - is that area connected by land? They now have 2 cities up there. I have to retreat our units out of range when I spot 3 Ninja.

IBT: Ninja move up where we can get them. Samuri Archers advance (not yet in range). Nearly lose the Bushi Army.

Jul 1534: Kill the 3 Ninja. Yama will try to lure the Samuri Warrior into attacking onto hill (best odds).

IBT: Samuri Warrior dies. Enemy Yama shows up and grabs a worker.

Oct 1534: Well we have two fronts again. We throw everything at the Yama - lose a Samuri Archer killing it.
Again defending everything is tough. Not sure I have done it...

IBT: Another Yama incoming but stops where the cats can get to it.

Jan 1535: Bombard and Kill the Yama. Kill several Ninja. Not enough to kill the Samuri Warriors.

Notes:
Be very careful with the Armies. The bushi Army especially is very fragile. We got lucky and didn't lose it this time - it really needs a stronger army to defend it.

This is very tricky. With all the units with special powers incoming, it is way too easy to make a bad move and we lost some units due to this. Iwaki especially needs a defender ASAP.

I played until the turns were divisible by 10.

You need to keep Yama's keeping an eye on squares into our lands or you can get Ninja and not even know it.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/Rat18_1535.jpg

BTW, ThERat, the years of your saves disagree with what year I am playing. Do we have the same years? My game says I am starting in Jul, 1533 but your save name is Apr 1536:lol: simple reason, because I had to guess. Something is wrong with my scenario setup and all it says, it's the year of the airfield. :crazyeye:

I think if we can manage to get some infrastructure up, then we should be in a strong position.

Btw, is there a turn;limit in this game? I can't tell due to the above mentioned reason.

ThERat -
SirBugs - are you still alive?
Empiremaker - back on Friday
Greebley -
pindicator - can you take it?

ya, check your victory conditions. That tells you what turn it is and how many are left. I think we were on 230 of 540.

I have started a new job. I will have less time to play, but should still be able to manage my turns as I only have 2 active games.

I'm still alive. I was waiting for Rat to play. And suddenly it is past Greebley. I guess I'm not paying enough attention.

Bugs, why don't you simply take the game now?

OK, I have it. I will play tomorrow evening.

Pre-flight – The good thing is we can’t get any further behind in tech. The bad news is we have a long way to go.

Strategically the land is starting to favor us. The tundra to our northeast is our friend. That very effectively narrows the approaches to our eastern front. Additionally the barbs are helping by creating a nice wall. If we can move the southern front forward about another 10-15 tiles, the front will narrow considerably. That will make it easier to prevent ninja intrusions with a ninja wall.

I think we can have pretty good control of the game in another 30 – 50 turns. The key will be consolidation of that southern front. We will also have a lot more infrastructure completed soon. I think I will make two goals for this turnset. 1. Gather up enough forces to push south ward. 2. To complete most of the strategic infrastructure so we can concentrate on building units.

I move a spear to cover Iwaki. Spend about 400G short rushing several items.

IBT – Oda sends several units northward. We catch Chosokabe planting a spy. :mad: We should declare war on them! Oh, we already are. :blush: nevermind.

Apr 1535 – We have a pretty major push by Oda. Bombard and barely make a dent. Found Misawa. Kill a ninja with a Sam Archer Army.

IBT – Well I have a hellava great start. Our Sam Archer army defeats a Sam warrior and then is killed by a ninja.

Jul 1535 – Kill two ninjas and a sam warrior.

IBT – Lose a sam archer and a spear on a hill. And a sam archer on a mountain.

Oct 1535 - Kill four ninjas, sam warrior, three sam archers. Move to expand our frontier in the east. The people in Sunagawa are really unhappy due to propaganda.

IBT – Heihojutsu =>Naginatajutsu ( 9 turns)

Jan 1536 - Found Tsukidate. Kill two more ninja.

Apr 1536 – It looks like this might be a continents map. Kill two sam archers and miss a lot of catapult shots. Kill two more ninjas. March towards the southwest.

IBT – Just when I think I have it figured out, this happens:
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/6159/matsucapturedjt7.jpg

Jul 1536 – Recapture Matsushima and collect about 500G for it. Use the cash to short rush a few buildings. Kill another ninja. These guys are a pain in the neck.

IBT – Lose a yama to two ninjas. Chososaki drops off two sam warriors north of Atami – A very popular tourist spot.

Oct 1536 – Knock off a ninja by matsushima and a sam warrior by Atami. There are ninjas everywhere.

Jan 1537 - This is a frustrating game. Lose a sam archer to a redlined sam warrior. Lose two vet galleys to barb galleys. This is definitely two continents. Spot a purple city across the sea to the east. Here is an afterthought screen shot:

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/8441/rat18continentnk0.jpg

IBT – Matsushima is captured again by an onslaught of ninja.

Apr 1537 – How is there an Armbrustier in there already? Kill a ninja and the Armbrustier and collect 472G for our efforts. Short rush a few more buildings. It is a nice source of income, but nothing we want to make a habit of.

IBT – We lose three sam archers on the mountain south of matsushima and three cats as well. :gripe: Muya riots cause I pulled all those archers out of there and didn’t check. What else didn’t I do?

Jul 1537 – Just react.

After Action – We need more yamas. We have several new buildings that should help our overall production, happiness and research. I should have played more defense. Here is the southern front.

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/4192/rat18southwr3.jpg

The pipedream is three red dots that would be wonderful to have cities at, but we are having difficulty defending what we have.

And here is the east:

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/593/rat18eastig2.jpg

I would raze Daisenoki and settle yellow dot.

Save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/32851/Rat18_Jul._1537_AD.SAV

the rough ride continues, certainly not an easy game

ThERat -
SirBugs - just played
Empiremaker - are you back and can take it
Greebley - skipped with Bugs
pindicator - still alive?

I got it. Lets see what I can do.

Not an easy game to pick up if you haven't played recently. The Ninja's combined with the Yama's means you have to defend everything.

I am hoping once we get the Geisha houses and aquaducts in most towns that it will help us out. The problem is that it is nearly impossible to get good combat odds when the AI has so much flexibility of movement.

0-6 I lost my report in a computer crash. On the IBT of turn 6 we ran out of untis to defend our cities from Yama. Before that on 5 and 6, I was hit by a number of inflitrating Yamas and ninjas.

7- Recapture Son of Haboro, 410 gold.

IBT- zzz

8- Hurried units complete- All vunerable cities covered.

IBT- 3 more ninjas appear

9- Start to refortify cities.

IBT- Spot a caravel

Ninja appears and takes Kunkou. (Defended by a Yama + Walls)

It's nice to see Ninjas attacking enemy units.

10- Kunkou has 2 ninjas in it.

NOTES:

DO NOT build any more Samurai Spearmen if possible, because for the same price you can get a Samurai Warrior.

Switch the palace to the Military Academy

There should be enough defensive units now to found some more cities.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Feb_25.png

The Save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58832/Rat18_Jan1540AD.SAV.zip)

EM - Could you give us a brief summary of what happened during those first six turns? From the picture it appears we lost at least three cities. It sounds like I left you with a mess.

I was fine until the IBT of 5. I had lost and recaptured a couple of cities hit by Ninjas. Then a stack of 4 Sam warriors and 5ish ninjas appeared on the west side, and in a couple of turns could be taking our core. I pulled troops from the east. Then some Purple Sam Archers appered, breaking through our front, and allowing Yamas to take the interior city before I could respond. The Sam Warriors I was able to contain. I lost Atami by pulling the Yama army away, and on that same turn, 3 ninjas killed the remaining defender, even though I thought I had scouted the area, this cost us our main cat stack, which we may be able to recapture. Even though I had 1000+ gold, I was waiting until Bushido came in to rush Sam Warriors and push back the AI.

Simply, I got overwhelmed by the AI.

a real rough ride this game, all due to my faulty setup :blush:

anyway, with better units, we hopefully can contain the AI and then go out and grab more territory. Rushing infra will also help us.

ThERat -
SirBugs -
Empiremaker - just played
Greebley - skipped with Bugs
pindicator - up if you are still participating here

Still kicking. I will grab and play, either Monday or Thursday

So I played ... and lost 4 cities in 3 turns. What defensive units were you talking about Empire?? I couldn't find any but the bare garrisons of our former cities.

Ninjas are killing Yamas behind walls... don't know what we can do to stop that.

We lost a lot of seige on the IBT of turn 1 when ninjas came out of the woodwork to kill our army outside Miwasa.

My notes:

Inherited Turn
Where are all those defensive units at?

IT -
In the east, lose Tsukidate to the Urakami (purple)
Lose our army outside of Misawa and all the siege under it.
We do kill 2 Ninjas and a Sam Archer

Build the Izumo Shrine

1)Kill a ninja

IT-
Lose a yama in Murayama -- that town now has a 1/5 Bushi defending it.

2)Kill 2 ninjas
Murayama is abandoned -- lots of cats to lose, and no way to defend the town.

IT-
I didn't even know this town was left undefended (see screenshot below). Amphibious assault costs us the town.

We lose all our catapults anyway as a ninja I didn't see ran up and killed our Bushi defender.

3) Capture our catapults back, costs us another Bushi though.

IT-
Ninjas kill a Yama behind walls (AGAIN!) and we lose Sunagawa.

4) I'm turning this over. Our western empire is falling apart. Maybe somebody else can hold these lines but I can't.
I forgot to swap over to the Military Academy, next person can do that

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/1112/rat181541crumblingempiruv9.jpg

The Save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/45336/Rat18_Jan1541AD.zip)

I am willing to call this a loss...I don't think we can make a comeback...

what does the rest think? anyone willing for another scenario or try?

I think that if we play well we may win since there are no other victories besides Dom and Conquests. If we do decide to change, I think AoD may be different. I think we've exhauseted Sengoku, even if the settings were right, there is still too much of strength gaps inbetween units: Bushi vs Yamas, Yamas+ Bushis vs Sam Archers, Sam Archers + Yamas vs. Sam Warriors, Sam Warriors vs. Sam Aquebusiers.

The game requires too much exacting play to be fun so I am willing to call it a loss even though there might be a chance.

If we did play the scenario again, then I would vote for a SLOW tech pace - we need time to build the buildings and such

OTOH, the Ninja, Yama, and especially the war weariness make the scenario poorly suited for a fun AW game. I think I wouldn't mind playing a different scenario - we are not even really playing the actual scenario.

Another option would be to play at Monarch level and play the "real" scenario.
The japanese scenario is much tougher AW than the normal game.

I'll like to see Mesopatamia... No really fast units there, but looks fun.

I concur with the loss. We are seriously on the ropes.

I'd be game for a new scenerio to try. It's been so long since I've done them I doubt I remember how they work any more.

I checked and the mesopotamia game has no conquest/domination, but a culture victory. it is also only 160turns long...

i actually like the middle age scenario and the napoleon scenario (but that starts with so many AI's know that AW might be a little steep)

I am not familiar enough with the scenarios to have a strong opinion. I am willing to try any one that you choose.

how about the middle age scenario with Byzantines as the Civ?

That would be fine.

ok, will start a game tomorrow...Bugs, pindicator are you in as well?

i'm in but currently harboring a wrist injury, and 1handed typing is a pita

ok, will start the game and see whether Bugs will join...will start only on Thursday though, as I am celebrating with graduating students and we will have some :beer: too many I reckon

started the new game...here is the link

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=210894