Voting time: LH maker of the Month November 2006 [Archive]

Hikaro Takayama

Dec 03, 2006, 12:52 AM

Well, this is going to be the last of these contests I'll ever enter.... It's quite appearant from how the votes have been going in every contest I've entered that I'll never win, except by default.... I also realized that I just don't have the talent to rival Bjorn, Rob, Grandraem, or Navydawg. The best I can do is content myself with the knowledge that I'm just going to be nothing more than a no-talent hack of a unit/LH creator who's only hope is to possibly match the likes of Riptide and Civ Army in sheer quantity (whom I'm not near as good as even there). Since I have a real job and school on top of that, I'll even have to give up on that as well.

That being said, I'm tired of getting stomped in these competition, and getting no thanks or recognition for my hard work, so this will be the last post I'm making on these forum for a long, long time, if ever again.

I may work on the FF mod in private from time to time, and I'll post that when/if I ever release it, but since I can't even get any support for that, I wouldn't keep my hopes up for that, if I were you......

Rob (R8XFT)

Dec 03, 2006, 04:22 AM

It's a shame you feel that way. You do have the talent. Ok, my leaderhead is winning this competition and obviously I'm delighted with that. I don't put that down to me personally having more talent or anything like that - I simply did a leaderhead that people clearly wanted...a lot. With all due respect, more people will use an Attila the Hun leaderhead in their mods and games than a Princess Garnet leaderhead because of who he is, not due to the creator.

Around 2004/2005, there were plenty of leaderhead creators, but it was mainly CivArmy and myself, so I was well known on these forums for being a leaderhead creator when these competitions started. An "upstart," a new creator, Grandraem, put up a Grimgor leaderhead which trounced my Gladys. Well, I was a little stunned, and hit back with Sitting Bull - this was beaten by a single vote to his Glantri leaderhead. I tried it on with a green leaderhead - the Slave Girl of Orion and was duly whooped by another Grandraem masterpiece. My attitude at this stage was to think "well, at least I got around 16-20 votes for a green woman against a much better leaderhead." It got me to up my game, try some different things. This Attila is better than my previous efforts, because I wanted to do myself justice compared to the likes of you (Hikaro) and Grandraem - and of course, others.

Please don't take yourself away from the community because more people are voting for my leaderhead - consider that you're getting votes from people who think that your leaderhead is one they want to win over my own, Grandraem's and Sword_of_Geddon's. You're getting votes - it's just that I did a leaderhead of a historic figure many people have been wanting a leaderhead for - and for a long time.

I voted for you last month with your blitzball court and it's not the first time I've voted for you either. I'm sorry this competition has made you feel this way - please cheer up and look at the votes you won in a positive way :) !!

Oh - and everyone else who has voted for any of us - thank you :goodjob: !!

Bjornlo

Dec 03, 2006, 05:25 AM

Hikaro,
It is like I told you before. If you want to win, make stuff similar to those that are winning. You are good enough, but has any anime stuff ever won? Nope. Similarly your Elven units are sorta like Aaglo's. Which look really good but just don't get the votes (although they do get the downloads). The fact that you prefer to make a certain style of stuff is fine. Has anyone ever said your stuff was not good? Nope. But, in your preview thread the comments from me and two or three others included stuff like "well figure C is the least anime in style" or something like that.
Anime is another stylized "for fun" approach. It is not going to get the votes that a similar quality historical entry would. Margrave Miosz III is also non-historical, though he could be used in more scenarios than an Anime LH, and it is quite well done to boot. But, he too is getting left in the dust by the Hun.
I like your stuff. I think you are good. But, despite my appreciation for you and your art, I too voted for Attila. I am just far more likely to vote for a historical LH than a fantasy one. Not that I have anything against fantasy (note the green avatar), it is just seldom going to beat historical stuff for useability.

Bottom line is this: If you want to win, play to win. You certainly are good enough. But, if you want to make stuff your own way, as you should, just realize you are reducing your chances to finish at the top in exchange for following your muse.

Hikaro Takayama

Dec 03, 2006, 08:04 AM

Rob: I might be back, it's just my getting only 1 LOUSY vote in the unit competition last month, and getting thouroughly whomped in this month's competition, along with holiday stress, upcoming finals, work and school in general, have killed all my motivation for making units or LHs in general. I have very litte free time right now, and I'd rather use it doing something I think is worth my time and effort... like playing Soul Calibur 3. I can usually whoop all my friends at that game, or at least give them enough of a fight to keep it interesting.

I actually can improve at that game, unlike my unit and LH creation, which is much like my playing technique for Star Craft: The first time I ever played Star Craft in MP (I was pretty good at SP), I got beat in 5 minutes by a guy who Zergling rushed me, so I tried and practiced for several weeks to improve my game so that I wouldn't lose next time. The result of all that hard work? I managed to last 11 minutes against his massive hordes of zerglings. It seems that while I improved my technique by 2-fold, he improved, IN THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME, about 10 to 11-fold.

So it is with my units and LHs... I work, and slave and try to improve enough to catch up to the best, only to lose by a larger and larger margin each month. Trying to catch up to you guys is like trying to run down the sun.... A completely futile effort......

Bjorn: So what you're saying is that I should make LHs that look like the Newspaper editorial cartoon charicature style that Firaxis uses? :rolleyes: With all due respect, I'd rather stick a soldering iron in my left eye, than try imitating that horrible style.

Still, it's going to be a cold day in Hell before I ever enter these competitions again. In addition, It'll be a cold day in general before I make any more units or LHs at all (we're talking Christmas break.... I'll have a week off work and no school, so plenty of time to do stuff at my own pace).

Rob (R8XFT)

Dec 03, 2006, 10:23 AM

That's your choice, Hikaro; like Bjornlo said, we leaderhead creators have to weigh up whether we want to create something that will win the competition or create something for fun - but accept that it might not be what people will vote for. With Attila, I had both; but that's not always going to be the case.

I just hope you haven't taken the voting to heart with these competitions; when people are voting, they're voting for a leaderhead/artist, not against the "rival" leaderheads/artists. A lot of people would vote for two or more if they had a chance, but they all only have one vote.

You're a decent fella, Hikaro, hope to see you around ;) .

Goldflash

Dec 03, 2006, 11:02 AM

Oh get over yourself. Seriously.

Honestly, More often than not, I think people vote for what they can use. Your FF stuff is rather specific. And its not like these silly contest is how we judge the quailty of everything ever made ever in the history of stuff. They're just here to give us soemthing to mull over instead of working on our various projects.

Flamand

Dec 03, 2006, 11:30 AM

I believe I want to end these competitions alltogether. If two of the most prolific C&C artists out there (HT and Varwnos) are all the time complaining that they don't win (after winning respectively 4 and 1 competitions! :eek:) I think I should reevaluate the whole thing...

All I'm saying is: please keep some dignity, I know you're better than that...

ps: I actually happen to like your LH the most, so I gave her her 10th vote.

Hikaro Takayama

Dec 03, 2006, 12:04 PM

Goldflash, you telling me to get over myself is like the cauldron calling the kettle black! At least I don't clog up the forums with useless spam like you do all the time. :mad:

Flamand: I'm glad you like her at least. That means a lot to me, really. However, two of those "victories" of mine that you've listed don't count, since I was the only one who entered LHs those months. I could have entered an animated stick figure and still won.....

Speaking of which, it isn't really just losing these competitions that's truly telling. Rob or Grandraem could do a LH of Cartman or Mr. Hanky the Christmas Poo from South Park, and they'd still get about 50 replies in the first day saying how great they did. I'm lucky to get even 2, and the ones I do get are always from the same 2 people (Odintheking and Spacer One) who have a bit of a FF/general Japanse anime-style game obsession. Same goes with my units. Navydawg could have an animated kung-fu stick figure (which would be awesome, since then we could make a Xiao-Xiao Yu Stick-Figure Kung-Fu Theater mod, but I digress), and still get huge crowds of people ooh-ing and aaah-ing over them. My Elven unit pack, which has 6 of the, IMO best poser units I've ever made just barely got as many replies as 1 unit from any other creator gets, and I doubt it would have even gotten that many if I'd have released them all at once...

I've found that people will lie and tell you you're better than you really are just so they can manipulate you somehow in the future (i.e. trying to butter you up so that they can steal your work for one of their projects and take credit for it or just so they can laugh at you when you fail), but NUMBERS DON'T LIE! Math is the universal TRUTH around which the entire universe works, and the numbers are the only thing that can be trusted. The numbers on these forums say that, in terms of unit creating ability, I'd rank about where Civ Army and Riptide are, based on numbers of downloads and replies to unit threads. If I was really good enough to compete in these competitions, I'd be getting the same numbers of downloads as Aalgo, Kinboat, UtahJazz7, Rob, Grandraem, or even Navydawg and Plotinus.

Since these contests are SUPPOSED to be based on artistic merit, I'd say that I've heard the people, seen the signs and read the writing on the wall, and all are saying that I'm not worthy, and I can deal with that. That is why I'm not going to enter these contests any more.... My self-esteem is already low enough without taking a kick in the face every month like it has been.

odintheking

Dec 03, 2006, 01:46 PM

Hikaro, man, chill out. You're one of the best artists around and you're in second place, dude. You're beating Grandraem and Swoggy, and you've won like 5 competitions. Aaglo has only won a competition once, and he makes some the most high-quality units and graphics around. Just because he doesn't win doesn't make him mopey, he just shrugs and shoves out another 20 awesome units for the good of the community. Don't take these too seriously, man, they're just for fun. Also, chill out if you don't get that many replies, if you really want to see if your work is appreciated, just look how many mods use your stuff, alot of people use at least some of your stuff. These competitions are just so people can voice their opinion on their favorite thing this month, based on their own tastes.

COAtlantis1745

Dec 03, 2006, 02:05 PM

Wow. . . I guess we'd better vote and keep hush about who and what we have voted for in the future what?

No more beatnik songs I guess. . . :(

Flamand

Dec 03, 2006, 02:08 PM

Just wondering: is it possible to have a secret vote? I mean that the result is only known after the poll ends?

odintheking

Dec 03, 2006, 02:12 PM

Eh, I wouldn't like that. I like to see how close the race is, or if there's a tie it's easier to pick one. I don't think the rules should be changed, it works fine the way it is, :).

NavyDawg

Dec 03, 2006, 02:45 PM

I also realized that I just don't have the talent to rival Bjorn, Rob, Grandraem, or Navydawg.

HT, Just for the record, I think your units and LH's are top notch, I've d/l'ed every one on these forums and have used most in personal mods and scenarios. You are easily the better artist than I ever hope to be with the wider range of units and LH's you have produced. All I do is use other people's props and figures and pose it a few times and let Poser fill in the blanks. Hardly a great accomplishment. Please don't consider yourself anything other than a top tier creator.

I do know what you mean about these competitions, though. It's a little frustrating to check the site and see your creation getting stomped (but Plotinus' Ethiopian Swordsman is quite good:) ). I myself might throw in the towel with the competitions. However, I'll continue to post anything I make, whether people can use it or not or like it or not. I know these forums would lose a great talent if you stop contributing, but I understand your decision.

BTW, I voted for your LH in this one.;)

Yorgos

Dec 03, 2006, 04:46 PM

Oh, here it goes the same again. And it's been only a month since Hikaro complained about the poor perfomance of his units. I will not argue against his "retirement" this time. I have a better answer.

Garnet Til rules!!!

Hikaro Takayama

Dec 03, 2006, 04:49 PM

Sorry about my outburst, guys... This month's LH competition was really just the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.... It was just on top of work, school, impending final exams, being stuck in a dead-end job (unless I can finish school and graduate sometime this century), the #$% military not giving me my #$%# college money like it promised, and pre-holliday stress just building up to this point. Getting whomped this bad, when I had the highest hopes for Garnet, was the spark that set off that emotional powder keg I was carrying around.

That being said, I'm putting all Civ III modding on hold until I can get some more free time, and get some of this stress out of the way (like when this semester is over in about 2 weeks or so).

To those who stood behind me despite my raging out, I thank you, and I will be back, just not too soon (unless some of the units I've got on my request list for the FF mod get done, then I'll zoom in, post a "good job" and grab the unit before it slips off the first page).

Edit: Navy Dawg, I also voted for your unit this month, partially because that Sith Master looks freakin' awesome, and also because I know how #$%# hard it is to get lighting/laser/fire effects to look right in poser.

Bjornlo

Dec 03, 2006, 06:15 PM

Bjorn: So what you're saying is that I should make LHs that look like the Newspaper editorial cartoon charicature style that Firaxis uses? :rolleyes: With all due respect, I'd rather stick a soldering iron in my left eye, than try imitating that horrible style.

Still, it's going to be a cold day in Hell before I ever enter these competitions again. In addition, It'll be a cold day in general before I make any more units or LHs at all (we're talking Christmas break.... I'll have a week off work and no school, so plenty of time to do stuff at my own pace).

Hell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_Norway) should be frozen over within a few weeks. Although, it has been unseasonably warm thus far this fall/winter (temps averaging around 11c/52f). But, I'd bet you get your wish for the freeze by christmas. Oh and for what it is worth, I live south of hell by around 2 hours.

As to what you should or should not make. That is not at all what I said. I said you are making a choice, and like most choices there are consequences. For your fantasy themed things you have to accept that you will get fewer votes which you can balance off against the joy you get in making exactly what you wanted how you wanted it. If you want the people to vote for you, give them what they want. No point in complaining. It was, after all, your choice. Everyone is different. I am very competitive, like you. I want to win everything all the time. I have been mildly surprised at the complete pasting my static images take in the polls... while my stuff that wiggles has done a little better. But, if my things had all gone down to crushing defeat to I would still try to make things my own way. I make stuff, lots of stuff. Alot of which I never deem good enough to share. But, I make it to make it. In other words, the creation is the goal. It is true I spend hours on little details trying to get everything just right... but that is only because I want it that way.
What I am encouraging you to do is the following:
Figure out what you want most from creations.
1. Do you want to make stuff exactly as you see fit. Very pretty, very creative, etc... but possibly not gonna rock the votes.
2. Do you want to try and make stuff to do well in the charts? This will probably take a more historical and more generic approach. Your stuff would be just as good, and just as creative... but some design decisions would have to be made. For example, no female elves. Very few mods use them. Those that do are naturally wildly happy to see even more... And there are enough downloads to say that even though you aren't winning, a lot of people enjoy your creations as is.
I'm not saying it has to be historical and/or generic to win. I am just saying if it is made to be useable in the most number of games possible it is more likely to get votes.
Only you can decide what to make. And, whether it is fair or not alot of people interpet "what is best" by considering "what is the best one I can use".

Hikaro Takayama

Dec 03, 2006, 10:02 PM

Heh, and I thought that there was only a Hell in Michigan (my aunt grew up about 12 miles from there), and IIRC that has already froze over at least once... I, however was referring to the one on the spiritual plane.... Since I'm not going to change how I make my LHs and units, what I said still stands:

The next time you'll see me enter a unit or LH in any of these competitions is when the 7th trumpet sounds, the earth passes away, and the new Heaven and earth replace them.... I.e. not in this life. Even if, as you say, my units are good enough (HA!) to win, I'm still withdrawing from the competitions in protest over people voting for usefullness, rather than artistic merit.

Edit: And you said you want to win all the competitions, well, I'd at least like to win ONE of them. The only one I've ever won fair and square was the PCX competition, for reasons unknown to me; I use the same 3d programs for my still graphics as I do for my LHs and Units, yet my units suck to no end, but everyone loves my graphics.... It don't make a lick of sense to me. :confused:

Still, I don't hold winning the PCX competiton in as high a regard as the LH and Unit makers, for the main reason any random guy can just search the web for pics and do some quick C&P in Photoshop or PSP and have something to enter.... Hell, I just fire up Bryce, do about 1 hour of work and I've got a winning entry.... LHs and units on the other hand, take anywhere from 2 days to 2 weeks each, and you have to be GOOD to make a unit capable of entering the competiton.... Even the C&P guys have to know their stuff for that.

Yet, no matter how I try, I just can't win either of those two. My family didn't survive for the past 2000 years (give or take a couple hundred) by picking fights we couldn't win, and I'm not going to break that fine tradition, so I'm not going to even try these stupid contests anymore.

I think someone (it may have been me) said that these contests were a bad idea when they were proposed, and I'd say they're right.

Rob (R8XFT)

Dec 04, 2006, 02:29 AM

A phrase we use at work (as we thrive on change) is "do what you always do and you'll get what you always got;" is relevant to this discussion.

However, I have an idea which should (I hope) offer a glimmer of light to this competition. Why not have them quarterly; allow the entrants to submit up to three leaderheads/units/pcxs as one entry; make it completely themed. You'd be onto a winner personally, Flamand, if you made the theme "Star Trek," but you could open a thread to vote what the category could be (and maybe one before that to suggest the categories). Mods in development could get artwork that would benefit them (could you imagine Grandraem and I creating 3 Star Trek leaderheads each, plus others that other people might make, plus all those lovely units?) The competitions would then be voted for on an even keel - no more "well, Grandraem and Hikaro made a better leaderhead, but I wanted Attila, so I'll vote for Rob."

I'd suggest you opened the thread to suggest themes for the Winter 2006/2007 competitions, running from maybe December 1st - February 28th, with voting to start in March.

Plotinus

Dec 04, 2006, 02:35 AM

That's a nice idea but it sounds rather complicated to me. In particular, if you make them themed then people would have to create entries specifically for the competitions, rather than just entering the things they're making anyway, as they currently do. I wouldn't do that, personally.

I think the competitions are fine as they are. I like them, anyway. Just don't take them seriously. So people don't vote rationally? Well, people never do, do they?

[EDIT] NavyDawg - your creation's far from getting stomped - in fact it's rapidly catching up with mine, and is probably going to do something nasty to it as it zips past!

Bjornlo

Dec 04, 2006, 05:31 AM

I too think the idea of themed contests would be interesting but too limiting. It would only work if we had 100's of contestants each picking and choosing where and how to compete.

I think it is best to leave it as is. Monthly contests, as open and inclusive as possible. Not seperated by technique, methodology, genre or other limiting factors.

One thing which has been bugging me is the instant entries vs. the time consuming ones. I do not have a solution. But, it does sometimes bug me to see those items which are tossed together in 30minutes competeing with those that took dozens of hours, perhaps weeks, to create. I have voted for a few of these "instant-art" items myself. I think it is 'ok' that they are in the competition. I have voted for a few of them myself. But no matter how good they are, to me there is less artistry in taking a picture of the Mona Lisa than there is in painting even a crappy copy. The only semi-rational solution I have thought of is to use "is it original art" as a tie-breaker. With units, I consider a good C&P just as seriously as I do a good 3d modeled unit. I know that by far the hardest unit I made was my old C&P Jeep. I animated it my creating 100's of layers in photoshop and repositioning everything manually. What a booger. How hard it was to "do it right" in even a high-end 2d app is what got me back into using 3d tools after many years without.

Stormrage

Dec 04, 2006, 05:41 AM

So people don't vote rationally? Well, people never do, do they?

One word... Bush.

Rob`s onto something there.. a utopia version of this community would be like:

Hikaro is making a final fantasy mod! Everyone, dropp everything and mass produce stuff for it. That would ofcourse happen after the Beta, so people can be sure its worth it :)
I`m talking buildings, units, LHs, tech-icons and all that.

That way a mod or a scenario creator wouldn`t have to be limited to the art thats available, which leads to some stomache turning compromises sometimes, he would just have to concentrate on the gameplay.

I`m pretty sure that if there are 10 mods being made simultaneously (sp?) by 1 or 2 people on each project, they will be made much slower than if 10 unitmakers, 3 or 4 LH makers and so on, would gang up and make stuff needed for 1 mod, then the next, untill all 10 are finished.

But as I said.. that would be utopia..

Hikaro Takayama

Dec 04, 2006, 06:41 AM

Storm: The only reason I voted for Bush was that he was the better of two lousy choices... Basically, the 2004 elections came down to Tweedle Dumb and Tweedle Dee, and I voted for Tweedle Dee..... Unfortunately, that's one of the problems with our 2 party system. I'd preferr that we just get rid of political parties, and instead of primaries, just have a tournament style election (like American Idol) where the candidates go debate off in brackets, and they get voted on after their debates, and the losers get eliminated until only 1 is left, and that one is the winner.... It would definitely bring focus back onto actual issues, and end all the crappy partisan politics that have been running this country into the ground.... But I'm getting [offtopic]

I actually like the idea of a themed competition: That way I could finally get some support for the FF mod, PLUS, with the additional help, I won't feel so trapped by trying to get all the graphics and stuff for the FF mod done, and It'll free me up to do some work on other stuff I like, like Ancient Japan, Star Gate, or whatever one of the other themes are.

Plus, it'll finally level the playing field out a bit, since everyone will be working on the same general theme (plus, Star Trek Federation ships would be easy to model... just throw together a few cylinders and you've got a starship), so the voting will finally be based on artistic merit, rather than, "can I use this."

If this thematic idea were to be implemented, I'd definitely enter stuff in those competitions.

Grandraem

Dec 04, 2006, 10:32 AM

I've been away for a few days and missed all the action in this thread.:confused: I'm not surprised to be getting trounced by Attila:blush: . Great job, Rob.:)

Hikaro, as everyone has been saying, I think there just isn't the demand for anime stuff for the most part. Let me assure you that I've been waiting eagerly for your FF mod and I think your new LHs are amazing and will make the mod stand out a lot. The reason I don't keep up with your threads (or Rob's or many others) as much as I'd like is because I don't have a whole lot of time for Civ and what I do I'm trying to devote mostly to my mod.

I find this somewhat insulting though:
Rob or Grandraem could do a LH of Cartman or Mr. Hanky the Christmas Poo from South Park, and they'd still get about 50 replies in the first day saying how great they did.

To me that implies that responses to my work are somewhat meaningless and based on popularity or something.

About the themed competitions, it's not that I don't like to help others by making LHs for them, I just don't have the time right now to make LHs other than those I'm already planning on doing.

Finally, with all that said, I think this will be the last LH competition I'll be in for a little while anyways because the only other LHs I have planned before I take a break and finish my mod are variations on the Mokuba Jibada leaderhead, which won't count for future competitions. Also probably a redo on the medieval era of Miosz. There is the possibility that I'm going to make 1 final new one before my break if I feel inspired enough and feel I have the time, but it's not likely due to some rather distressing real life issues.:( I'll definitely still be around on the forums though, just don't think I'll feel like adding any LHs to my list.

Oh yeah, and thanks to the people that have voted for me so far.:xmas:

Hikaro Takayama

Dec 04, 2006, 11:24 AM

That is not what I was implying... I was implying that you're so good that you could do Cartman or Mr. Hanky and it would look so perfect that everyone would like it.... I, on the other hand, struggle, work and toil to get something that looks halfways decent, but gets ignored.

If we were to put this in terms of the Ninjas from Naruto, You'd be Hyuga Neji, Rob would be Uchiha Sasuke, and I'd be Naruto or Rock Lee..... I.e. you guys have extreme amounts of talent and can do with ease what it takes me a LOT of hard work and stress to even attempt to imitate.

Grandraem

Dec 04, 2006, 11:38 AM

Blue Monkey

Dec 04, 2006, 01:32 PM

I sympathize with Hikaro. However, as to "artistic merit" and "Rational voting":

I respect your decision not to enter competitions. I don't think it will make you feel any better, but, while I have eagerly voted for some of your other things, I have tended not to vote for your LHs precisely because of their anime-linked style. While I can appreciate them in the abstract, they're not what I look for in a leaderhead. And I'm talking aesthetics, because I vote for plenty of work that I will never download, and have no interest in using.

In order to judge artistic merit one must have some one must have some aesthetic sensibility. That inherently creates a problem (De gustibus, etc., etc.). Even were one to limit the voting to those who know the technical issues involved (ie other LH makers), the taste issue is not obviated. Jackson Pollock, or Picasso and Braque for that matter, struggled to get other painters to even see what is going on. There's lots of film makers that don't respect the Oscars, let alone the Golden Globes, or "People's Choice".

Ultimately you must please yourself in your avocation. I expect to dl the FF mod at some point. I will play it just to enjoy the work that went into it, looking for the new riffs on the C3C pattern, even though I have never played a FF game in my life.

Flamand

Dec 04, 2006, 02:07 PM

"do what you always do and you'll get what you always got"
Love that phrase, now I'll have to try to remember it... ;)

Why not have them quarterly; allow the entrants to submit up to three leaderheads/units/pcxs as one entry; make it completely themed.
As you can see from my original post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=148732) (pretty fun reading one year later :D) the idea was to have a monthly changing theme. But I abandoned it because I felt it would reduce the number of entries considerably. Since the number of monthly entries on average is about 5-7 for the units, 2-3 for the LHs and 4-5 for the PCXs I'm afraid it would reduce to a point where there would be no competition left.
(http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=148732)
You'd be onto a winner personally, Flamand, if you made the theme "Star Trek," but you could open a thread to vote what the category could be (and maybe one before that to suggest the categories). Mods in development could get artwork that would benefit them (could you imagine Grandraem and I creating 3 Star Trek leaderheads each, plus others that other people might make, plus all those lovely units?)
You guys would actually fall for that?? :eek: I though about it but I never figured anyone would do it... :mischief:

Hikaro Takayama

Dec 04, 2006, 02:42 PM

Ah, sorry for the misunderstanding. And thank you for the compliment.:)

I don't know anything about Naruto btw, but I'll take it as a compliment.:lol:

And your stuff is better than halfway decent. Your new Squall and Reina are two or my favourite LHs in the forums.:)

Thanks for the compliment, especially coming from you.

To clarify;

Hyuga Neji is heir to one of the most powerful ninja clans in the Naruto series, and he has an in-born ability to see people's aura and precisely strike their chakra points to completely disable his opponents with ease.

Uchiha Sasuke is heir to the second-most powerful ninja clan, and he has this inherited ability known as the Sharingan, or mirror-wheel eye, which allows him to exactly duplicate any ninjutsu, taijutsu or other special technique he's seen at least once.

Naruto is an average guy who is not very good at ninjutsu, but he has high stamina and unstoppable determination... That, and he had the spirit of a 9-tailed demon fox sealed in his body when he was born (it was the only way to keep the demon fox from destroying the village). He gets his butt kicked a lot, but he keeps on trying.

Rock Lee is pretty much the same, except that he can't do any kind of Ninjutsu, only Taijutsu (basic physical martial arts techniques), and he keeps getting beat by Neji, no matter how hard he trains, but he's very good at his taijutsu techniques.

And Yes, Flamand, I would definitely go for that, if I can be guaranteed that FF will be one of the themes, since (1) I'd like to get some help for the FF mod and (2) I've grown tired of making nothing but FF units and LHs, so doing other LHs and stuff (such as Star Gate and Star Trek) would provide some much needed relief from that conundrum. With the FF theme one getting some much needed FF stuff out of the way, I could do other theme's stuff without setting my progress on my mod back too much.

I'm sure there are other creators who feel the same way (i.e. Grandraem, no doubt would welcome some help with his mod, as well as a break from doing nothing but stuff for it).

Quinzy

Dec 04, 2006, 02:59 PM

i'd be happy with a themed contest: i have a massive interest in all types of units. in fact, here's my to-do list:

carabineer (british dragoon unit)
peasant
eagle knight
esthar
serbian soldier
serbian cavalry
red mage
mongolian swordsman
mongolian naginata/spearman
rhino tank

TopGun

Dec 04, 2006, 04:14 PM

I don't know... themed competitions? As much as I like the idea, I don't think it's practical, as it would reduce the number of entries drastically. I am speaking for myself only, but it's probably a safe assumption, that none of us makes artwork just for the sake of a competition. Rather, we make what we like, be that anime-inspired/fantasy stuff a la Hikaro or Aaglo, ancient/middleages historical stuff a la R8FXT, or biological units, or aircraft or whatever. The point is: Few of us make "everything", but instead have their niches/favorites.

In my eyes, it is this diversity, that makes these comepetitions worthwhile and interesting. Just think of how interesting last months unit contest was, where the "it's not easy being green" Troll won a nailbiter of a victory.

So, keep it diverse and don't narrow the field by introducing themes.

Plotinus

Dec 04, 2006, 04:19 PM

Personally I don't see any reason why there shouldn't be themed competitions, provided they don't replace the "all entries welcome" competitions we have now. If someone wants to start themed competitions as well (and it needn't be the overworked Flamand!) then certainly feel free to do so. But I do like the competitions we have now - it's nice to make things that I need/want to make anyway, and then be able to choose the one I like best and throw it into the mix to see what happens. The competition is a bonus - I wouldn't have time to do something specifically for a competition. But if themed competitions helped some of the major mods get completed they might well be a good idea - if enough people were inspired to enter them.

Flamand

Dec 04, 2006, 04:47 PM

(and it needn't be the overworked Flamand!)
Well, that's one of the most considerate things I have heard all day... ;) The way I see it I can suggest a theme in my competitions, but it is not mandatory. There should be some kind of advantage to the people following the theme though. Maybe like a 4th competition, like "theme file of the month" or something, one submission, two chances to win...

Blue Monkey

Dec 04, 2006, 04:56 PM

There should be some kind of advantage to the people following the theme though. Maybe like a 4th competition, like "theme file of the month" or something, one submission, two chances to win...That's key right there - one work ought to be able to be entered in both a themed category and the general competition.

Hikaro Takayama

Dec 04, 2006, 10:04 PM

Well, that's one of the most considerate things I have heard all day... ;) The way I see it I can suggest a theme in my competitions, but it is not mandatory. There should be some kind of advantage to the people following the theme though. Maybe like a 4th competition, like "theme file of the month" or something, one submission, two chances to win...

Sounds good to me.

The Thud

Dec 05, 2006, 02:11 AM

Margrave was good. Attilla was better.
Margrave looks a little too much like a snotnosed kid.

Hikaro would you just quit with the whining. I read the same junk for months now. You make stuff you know no one wants and then whine that you're gonna take your ball and go home. Get over it. Want votes? Make stuff people can use.

Warned for flaming.

Voltron

Dec 05, 2006, 02:44 AM

I really liked Margrave and Atilla. It was hard to choose, but I went with Margrave because he looks just like my college roomate. Who knew I would find jeff with his goofy shiteating grin here?

Hikaro, sorry you do not like how the votes go. but if you have to win, maybe you should just follow the advice you got.

Bambi Slam

Dec 05, 2006, 03:13 AM

i voted for the creepy gray dude. the world needs more creepy gray dudes.

Grandraem

Dec 05, 2006, 09:22 AM

You make stuff you know no one wants

Not true. Just check download numbers. This and your comment about NavyDawg's unit in the unit voting thread are posted a little rudely. Please take a little consideration for the time and effort that these creators are taking in making these things and sharing them for free to the Civ community here.
Anyone with any amount of pride will be at least a little upset if they've worked hard on something and are proud of it and see it get very few votes, or much less than others. Rob's Green Lady (sorry Rob, I don't remember the name :) ) was well made, and fun, and creative, but when I first checked voting against my Princess Carlotina LH and I was losing, a LH that I'd worked very hard on and problem solved many things, things that aren't necessarily and immediately obvious in the final product, I admit I was a little upset at the results. Again Rob, please don't take the above comment as anything negative against your LH, which I'm sure you worked just as hard on, just a comment on a feeling of rejection of my LH. It's easy to feel that way, and as Hikaro has said, he has had this happen on more occasions than he's willing to tolerate.

Anyways, I think we can definitely move on from this topic back to the discussion of themed competitions.:)

Oh, and Go Jeff Go! ;) Only a little more than 20 votes needed for victory.:lol:

Rob (R8XFT)

Dec 05, 2006, 09:52 AM

Rob's Green Lady (sorry Rob, I don't remember the name :) ) was well made, and fun, and creative, but when I first checked voting against my Princess Carlotina LH and I was losing, a LH that I'd worked very hard on and problem solved many things, things that aren't necessarily and immediately obvious in the final product, I admit I was a little upset at the results. Again Rob, please don't take the above comment as anything negative against your LH, which I'm sure you worked just as hard on, just a comment on a feeling of rejection of my LH. It's easy to feel that way, and as Hikaro has said, he has had this happen on more occasions than he's willing to tolerate.victory.:lol:
Nope, nothing negative. The slave girl from Orion was just a little bit of fun, not hard to do and I was delighted that she got so many votes against your fabulous Princess Carlotina.

Oh, and it was obviously not a leaderhead anyone could use, save in the Star Trek mod (maybe) - the point being that I entered it as fun and was pleased to see it score something in the region of 16-20 votes, even though it didn't win. It would have probably been a travesty of justice if it did ;) .

I was a little surprised in the first competitions, when an ogre beat Gladys and an old wizard beat Sitting Bull, but took it to mean that the people voting preferred elves and wizards to one of my pretty ladies and what I consider to be one of my better works (i.e. Sitting Bull).

Still, I think that themed competitions would be the way to go, but, as ever, I'll enter these competitions whatever the ground rules :) .

Quinzy

Dec 05, 2006, 11:28 AM

Thud, you've been here for what? about 2 months? so look, once you can make units and leaderheads of Hikaro's quality then you can have an opinion, and even at that, you have no right to say what you did. just look at the ammount of downloads his stuff gets and you're instantly proven wrong.

so quit whining about him whining: at least he has a reason!

Hikaro Takayama

Dec 05, 2006, 11:33 AM

Hikaro would you just quit with the whining. I read the same junk for months now. You make stuff you know no one wants and then whine that you're gonna take your ball and go home. Get over it. Want votes? Make stuff people can use.

Well, at least I'm contributing something to the community besides pointless trolls like you! Posts like this make me not want to make anything at all anymore.:mad:

Besides, how do you or I know that noone wants it, eh? I mean Garnet would make a nice mediterranean/Spanish/Greek/Itallian princess, but I'll bet that you didn't think of it like that, now did you?

Your "thoughtful" post has been reported for trolling, and have a nice day.

Blue Monkey

Dec 05, 2006, 01:01 PM

once you can make units and leaderheads of Hikaro's quality then you can have an opinionWho picks the jury, by that standard? I will continue to have an opinion, based on over 30 years of careful inquiry into the semiotics of visual and especially digital media, which some might consider to be of value even if I never make a leaderhead. Bullfighters need aficionados. If Hemingway could write about the ring, I can express my views here, as a player if nothing else.

Hikaro - your revised avatar, along with this discussion, are going to make me a more thoughtful voter in all future polls.

Quinzy

Dec 05, 2006, 01:08 PM

yeah, i suppose, but still, the Thuds words were harsh and completely uncalled for. ypu've been around here long enough to know how much effort goes into this stuff. Thud's only been here 2 months.

kairob

Dec 05, 2006, 01:11 PM

I think all they are saying is that you should consider how what you say will affect other people and that you should try to take that into consideration when you post, as well as not saying things that will do nothing but anoy people, if you dont like something of course you have the right to say so, just try to be less antagonistic...

Plotinus

Dec 05, 2006, 01:21 PM

It makes no difference how long people have been members of the site - uncalled-for rudeness is against the rules. The Thud's been warned so there's no need to keep discussing it.

NavyDawg

Dec 05, 2006, 01:21 PM

Oh, and it was obviously not a leaderhead anyone could use, save in the Star Trek mod (maybe) - the point being that I entered it as fun and was pleased to see it score something in the region of 16-20 votes, even though it didn't win. It would have probably been a travesty of justice if it did ;) .

I'm using her in my current project.;)

Rob (R8XFT)

Dec 05, 2006, 01:57 PM

I'm using her in my current project.;)
Hurrah!! I'm glad she is going to be in someone's mod :) ; aaglo doesn't make mods, otherwise I'm sure she would have been in his ;) .

Flamand

Dec 05, 2006, 02:17 PM

And she'll be in the ST mod of course... ;)

Care to make a Borg queen? :D

Hikaro Takayama

Dec 05, 2006, 03:01 PM

And she'll be in the ST mod of course... ;)

Care to make a Borg queen? :D

You know, I just happen to have a cyber helmet for Victoria 3 and a cyborg eye for her.............

I was going to use the cyborg eye to make that "Cats" guy from Zerowing as a kind of joke LH (Cats is the originator of the (in)famous "All your base are belong to us" quote), but now I might be able to use it for a real LH.....

I'm kind of wondering, however, who the 28 or so people who downloaded Garnet are and what they are using her for. :confused:

beboy

Dec 05, 2006, 06:01 PM

Hurrah!! I'm glad she is going to be in someone's mod :) ; aaglo doesn't make mods, otherwise I'm sure she would have been in his ;) .

I too use her for a mod in making; there she is the Queen of the Space amazons!!:p :crazyeye:

Hikaro Takayama

Dec 05, 2006, 09:03 PM

Bjorn and all who say that I should enter something more realistic, are you saying that I'd win if I entered something like THIS:

Rob (R8XFT)

Dec 05, 2006, 10:20 PM

Bjorn and all who say that I should enter something more realistic, are you saying that I'd win if I entered something like THIS:
I wouldn't say that you'd actually win with that leaderhead (though I'm not saying you wouldn't either). There's nothing wrong with it, it's nicely done; though it would depend on the other leaderheads entering the competition as to whether or not it would win. Who is she? Is she someone people actually want? I'd suggest if you're after winning, try and find out what people are after - maybe look through the leaderhead lottery threads to see what's requested.

polyphemus

Dec 05, 2006, 10:40 PM

The Hun.It is a much needed leaderhead and by far nothing equals to it.

When I vote for leaderheads, I don't vote for the most needed, it's just a mere coincidence that everyone needs it. Instead, I vote based on overall design, creativity, and texture which I believe are best displayed in all of Grandraem's leaderheads. With that said, I will continue to vote for Grandraem, well unless a gorgeous bae leaderhead comes out...:eek: :lol:

Oh and not to bring this about again....

@The Thud-->you better shut up and quit those negative comments or I personally am going to give you a thud on your head. I have deep respect for Hikaro and his unit/leaderhead genius. He is of great help on animation/creation and should be appreciated for his talents.

Sorry to bring this back up, but I needed to release some steam...NOW, back to the competition.

Warned for trolling. I said that he has been warned and there is no need to continue it.

Flamand

Dec 06, 2006, 12:35 AM

You know, I just happen to have a cyber helmet for Victoria 3 and a cyborg eye for her.............
It was an open invitation... ;)

Bjornlo

Dec 06, 2006, 03:07 AM

Bjorn and all who say that I should enter something more realistic, are you saying that I'd win if I entered something like THIS:

I don't know if you'd win or not. It depends on the over all quality. If it matches your Anime ones, I'd say your odds would be much better. But I can not predict what the exact out come would be. Only that I think that given the same love and attention you lavished on your Anime would yield better results on a historic to semi-historic unit.
Looks good So who is the blonde?

Grandraem

Dec 06, 2006, 09:19 AM

:lol: Rob, that's a man. It's just styled off of a very feminine looking Final Fantasy character. I'm not sure if you thought the same, Bjornlo.

Hikaro,
Personally I like your newest stuff more than your older stuff. One reason I like your newer Squall, for example, over your older one is that to me it looks more 'anime' than the old one that I thought looked too much like a cross between realism and anime styles, which I wasn't overly fond of. However that's obviously just a personal preference and it seems as if many would not vote for an anime style that they don't appreciate. I think you should do what inspires you most, be it anime or another style. Otherwise will you really be happy making things just because it might seem more wanted. I think it's great what we have here. Rob makes mostly historical or 'realistic' LHs, I make mostly fantasy LHs, you make mostly anime, and S_O_G has made some recent Sci-Fi LHs. It's a great variety for the whole community. I'm eagerly looking forward to the FF mod, as I'm sure are many others, even if it doesn't seem like as many people show an interest as they do in other threads. Look at my Mystara mod thread, there doesn't seem to be as much interest in it as tjedge1 used to get with his. In fact I feel like Stormrage (God bless him) provides half the postings.:lol: But I'm sure with both our mods that in addition to those that respond in the threads, there are probably many that check them out that have never registered. I used to frequent this site long before I joined, and only did so originally because I needed help with a modding question.
Anyways, sorry for babbling on, just wanted to say that I think you should just do what you love most, whatever makes you want to be in the forums.:)

(Rob, I hope it's ok to always call you Rob. To be honest I do it because I'm always unsure of whether I'll get the order of your name right. Sometimes I go to put 'RX8FT' or something like that.:mischief: Please let me know if you'd prefer me to use 'R8XFT' over Rob.)

Bjornlo

Dec 06, 2006, 09:44 AM

Grandraem,
Actually I thought it was a butch broad. Which given her wearing that heavy plate seemed a nice touch.

Also I'm glad you too are suggesting that Hikaro makes what he enjoys the most. But, naturally if he wants to experiment with making more stuff I will use, I won't object. :p

Rob (R8XFT)

Dec 06, 2006, 10:26 AM

:lol: Rob, that's a man.
Ooops!!

(Rob, I hope it's ok to always call you Rob. To be honest I do it because I'm always unsure of whether I'll get the order of your name right. Sometimes I go to put 'RX8FT' or something like that.:mischief: Please let me know if you'd prefer me to use 'R8XFT' over Rob.)
Call me Rob by all means!! Most people do on here. I asked to have my name changed to Rob on the forums, as it was taken by someone who joined the site when Civ III first came out and then never returned, but I couldn't do it. I chose R8XFT as it means something to me, but at the time, I was mainly a lurker who became a regular poster about 18 months after joining. I didn't know about Poser or creating mods at the time, so didn't expect to be as well known or regularly posting on these forums when I chose it, otherwise I would have picked something else. I've used R8XFT on other forums because people know me best as that.

Keroro

Dec 06, 2006, 10:40 AM

@ Hikaro - I suggest that you never stand in a popularity contest. :joke:

Seriously, do you enjoy making LHs? If so keep doing it, they are superb. If not, then I recommend you give it a rest fo a while. It's a heck of a lot of work if you don't enjoy the process of doing it. Winning these competitions are just the cherry on the cake - the cake is still good without it. If you make niche graphics then it is quite normal for a lot of people to overlook them. If you had entered Squall then it might have done a bit better, but it was a bad month anyway because Attila is (IMO) THE best LH ever produced for Civ3.

I like the new guy / girl you've previewed, but if you were going to do it just to try to win the compo, then my advice is to not do it.

:) Anyway, winning isn't what counts, look at my entry in the tech icon compo. It has one vote, but I'm pretty proud of it anyway because someone thought that it was better than all the others there. :cool: That makes me very happy. If I had 12 votes against a work of art like Attila, or against Grandaem's great entry, then I'd be delighted.

Hikaro Takayama

Dec 06, 2006, 11:12 AM

The somewhat girly looking dude is one of the main villians from Final Fantasy XI, and despite his youthful good looks, he's several thousand years old....

I'm doing him for the FF mod.

I'm also planning on doing some other more "realistic" FF lhs, such as Emperor Gramis Solidor of the Archadean Empire (is it just me or is there some kind of not-so subtlety in which the capitol city, Archades looks like they fused the words Arch-Hades together?), who is a really old dude (I'll be definitely using Mike 3 for the base, and seeing where I can get a good short beard prop for him....

However, since I'm not very popular anywhere (and never have been.... I was the guy who always got picked on by everyone else at school), I'm not likely going to be entering any more contests. The main reason is that I feel winning or coming at least somewhat close is the only way to truly validate whether or not I'm any good at this stuff.... In a way, I'm somewhat like Piro (a.k.a. Fred Ghallager) (http://www.megatokyo.com/), who is the artist behind the one of the world's most popular web comics, Megatokyo. He's constantly apologizing for his "lousy" artwork, and not being able to always get 3 full-page comics done per week, yet he's actually had his webcomic published in 4 volumes of trade paperbacks by Dark Horse Comics.... So obviously he isn't a lousy artist like he says he is. It's just that he tends to take any negative comments or apperant lack of support as indicators that he is a crummy artist.

So it is with me. The only way I'll enter any contest now is if anyone takes my standing bet:

I'm betting that ANY LH or Unit I make will LOSE, and anyone who wants to see me enter a unit or LH will have to say they take the bet.

If I actually win (fat chance), then I have to make a LH, Unit or other graphics of the first requester's choice, however, if I lose, then the requestor owes me a favor of my choice, and based on their capabilities. If you can't even do still graphics, I can use some help with civilopedia editing, if you catch my drift....

So, how does that sound to you? I'm betting that noone takes me up on this bet, and I'll never be entering any competitions again, except under the following exceptions:

1. If a contest has NO entries, then I'll enter just so that there is no blank spots in the HOF.
2. If a contest has only ONE entry that month, I'll enter just so they can't walk off with a victory by default, and I can at least say that I came in second ;)

Blue Monkey

Dec 06, 2006, 12:06 PM

So it is with me. The only way I'll enter any contest now is if anyone takes my standing bet:

I'm betting that ANY LH or Unit I make will LOSE, and anyone who wants to see me enter a unit or LH will have to say they take the bet.

If I actually win (fat chance), then I have to make a LH, Unit or other graphics of the first requester's choice, however, if I lose, then the requestor owes me a favor of my choice, and based on their capabilities. If you can't even do still graphics, I can use some help with civilopedia editing, if you catch my drift....

So, how does that sound to you? I'm betting that noone takes me up on this bet, and I'll never be entering any competitions again, except under the following exceptions:

1. If a contest has NO entries, then I'll enter just so that there is no blank spots in the HOF.
2. If a contest has only ONE entry that month, I'll enter just so they can't walk off with a victory by default, and I can at least say that I came in second ;)I'm not sure I understand the conditions of your bet. If I minimax it Prisoner's Dilemma style you could get a lot of free work out of an honorable sucker like me by intentionally entering something you thought wasn't very good.

On the other hand, I would gladly do a tonne of research and civilopedia editing for the chance to have a highly skilled LH craftsman like you make an unusual LH that might otherwise never get made, like Ravana. There wouldn't even have to be a bet involved, just straight barter.

Hikaro Takayama

Dec 06, 2006, 02:34 PM

Basically, when I post a unit and/or LH, you would have to say something to the effect of "You're on" if you think that it would have a chance of winning a competition, otherwise, I won't enter anything at all.

Of course, it would be best to wait until the end of the month to take the wager, since by the beginning of the last week of any given month, I'll be done with unit or LH making. The first post saying that you'll take my bet is the person who's in on it.

I'll enter the unit or LH, and in the highly unlikely event that it actually wins against actual competition (Forefeits = all bets are off, since winning by default isn't really winning, as far as I'm concerned), I make whatever you want, within reason. If, as is par for the course, I lose horribly, then you have to do something for me.

Pretty simple. Of course, since my LHs have about 1 in 100,000 odds of actually winning against real competition, and my units are about 1 in 999,999 (I'd say 1 in a Million, but the law of universal narrative casualty states that 1 in a Million chances come up 9 times out of 10), I highly doubt there will be any takers....

Which, of course, would prove what I, and even The Thud, said earlier about no one wanting my stuff and that I'm a sub-par artist.

Rob (R8XFT)

Dec 07, 2006, 12:18 PM

I'll enter the unit or LH, and in the highly unlikely event that it actually wins against actual competition (Forfeits = all bets are off, since winning by default isn't really winning, as far as I'm concerned), I make whatever you want, within reason.
If you feel that you're such an awful, unpopular artist, why would anyone want you to make anything they wanted :p ? :joke:

I've been reading this thread through along with comments you've made in other threads. Personally, I like you, I've no axe to grind or anything, but please realise that Grandraem, myself and other artists have every right to win these competitions if we put an entry in that people want to vote for. You keep saying that you'll never enter these competitions again; I would ask that you either go with that and state the case once, or enter the competition, but accept the result.

What you should be saying is that despite the fact that I've brought out a four-era Attila (which a lot of people requested), despite the fact that Grandraem brought out an excellent four-era Margrave Miosz III leaderhead that a lot of people will use, despite the fact that Sword_of_Geddon outdid his previous works with the excellent Zavuos (which deserved more votes than it's getting) - twelve people thought that your leaderhead was better than all these three. You are part of a competition that inspired 67 people to vote - which I think is the highest tally of voters so far in this competition.

This thread should be a celebration of four good leaderheads rather than the woeful exchange it has become.

Hikaro Takayama

Dec 07, 2006, 03:25 PM

If you feel that you're such an awful, unpopular artist, why would anyone want you to make anything they wanted :p ? :joke:

Because I want some kind of indication that I don't totally and completely suck at this stuff. :sad: I put hours upon hours of effort into LHs and get very little feedback to let me know what I'm doing wrong, so this is an attempt to get people to let me know when I get it right for once, so I can then duplicate that technique and hopefully finally achieve success.

You see, according to ALL the major indicators, my artwork is not only NOT improving, but is actually getting WORSE at a steady rate.

For example, here's the stats for the LH I entered:

Replies to it in the thread = 0
Downloads = 30
Votes = 11 (I voted for myself because I thought I deserved better than I got, so that one doesn't really count since it was a protest vote)

Total Cumulative Artistic Merit = 41

Yours:

Replies to it in the thread = 20
Downloads = 47
Votes = 36

Total Cumulative Artistic Merit = 103

Grandraem's:

Replies to it in the thread = 38
Downloads = 38
Votes = 15

Total Cumulative Artistic Merit = 91

As you can see, you and Grandraem are both very talented and about on par in skill, as anyone here can attest to. I, on the other hand, despite my best efforts, have not even attained HALF the skill you guys have. I'm much like the Frank Zappa of Civ III: No real talent, but have a small, but loyal following. As I said before, people will lie to you just to make you feel better, but numbers never lie... And these numbers are telling me that I should hang it up and quit. :unhappy:

Same goes for my units; I struggle and train to try making a unit that can finally be good enough to win, but my skills there, as well, are not only showing no signs of improvement, but are actually slipping as well. I'm on the verge of quitting making anything at all, but the Final Fantasy mod (which only a few people even care about anyways) desperately NEEDS these LHs and Units, and since few other unit or LH makers would willingly do any FF units or LHs (thanks Orthanc, Quinzy and Sword of Geddon for the ones you guys did make/are making, though, I really appreciate it! :goodjob: ), If I didn't make them, then they wouldn't get made. That is the reason I started unit and LH making in the first place. Of course, that means that the FF mod will be full of sub-par units and LHs, but at least they will be done. :(

I'll admit my failure, and move on, but as Herman Melville (author of Moby Dick) once said:

"It is better to have failed in originality than to succeed in imitation."

Furthermore, no offense to you, but I wouldn't have voted for your Attila even if I handn't entered anything. IMHO, it doesn't look anything like Attila actually would have.... You see, I did an entire history project for school that was entered into a local competition (which, surprise, surprise, I lost) on Attila the Hun and the Fall of the Roman Empire, and for one thing, his hair and clothing should look more Mongolic (Mongoloid? Mongolish? you know, Mongolian type person), since the Huns were a Mongolic tribe. His hair would be in a braid or topknot, and his clothes are too European in your version (again, based on my own research and opinions). In addition, he should look like scarface, since every description of Attila that I read during the course of my research said that his face was covered in ritualistic scars, as Huns and Mongolians were wont to do.

Of course, I doubt there are many here who have my deep background information on Huns and thier ilk, and you did an EXCELLENT job otherwise (might use the Industrial Era version of him as the Prince of Austro-Hungary in my private Napoleonic Europe mod, since the King of Hungary is supposedly a direct descendant of Attila) hence the incredible popularity of the LH.... I.e. it is nicely done, and most people don't know what Attila should look like, based on historical descriptions and Hunnic culture, coupled with about a zillion people wanting some kind of Attilla LH that looks good, from a technical LH standpoint (no flickering of the lighting, ghost pixels, animation bugs, etc).

That said, those are just my opinions, and the overall facial modelling is great... I'd have voted for you if you'd have just added a few scars, even without changing the clothes, but, that's just because I'm anal for historical accuracy in historical LHs....

TopGun

Dec 07, 2006, 03:46 PM

Hikaro, I'm not sure your metrics are applicable to art/artwork. What you are not accounting for is what I would call the "niche" or "mainstream" factor. Your LH's and units fill a niche, they are not exactly mainstream, or stuff that everybody will use. And that's OK. But mainstream vs niche is what determines how many replies to your threads you're getting, how many downloads, how many votes...

It is no gauge for the quality of your work, which, as most will agree with me, is top notch.

So, you are not our Frank Zappa, but more like our Bob Dylan: An artist in the true sense of the meaning, but you are not playing to a huge audience.

Hikaro Takayama

Dec 07, 2006, 04:50 PM

Guys, I've been doing some serious thinking over the last half hour (not to mention that Wyrm's latest preview has done much to improve my mood), and first of all, I'd like to say I'm truly sorry for my ranting.

I've been experiencing mild to moderate depression over things that for the most part have no relation to civ... It just happened that these contests mirrored some of the current situations in my life causing the depression. Therefore, I apologize for whining and making these contests a pain for everyone, and dragging the whole forums down with me.

Thanks for all your kind words of support, even when I was bashing myself. I realize that my work is not exactly mainstream civ style, and I wouldn't (for the most part) want it that way... Hell, I may even make Anime-styled historic LHs eventually, just because I can.

Finally, I just remembered something that snapped me out of my last major depression: A samurai would go into battle expecting to die, so that way he would not hesitate in the face of the enemy, nor would he show any fear.

Therefore, I've decided to continue entering my work into these competitions, and like the samurai, I'll enter it with every expectation that I will lose.... That way I will not hesitate, nor will I show any fear in the face of my opponents (I had a gut feeling that I should have entered Ashe or Sara, but I was afraid, so I held the referrendum, and it seems that my gut was right). That way, when I lose, I will not be disappointed, since that was my original expectation, but if I win, it will be an even greater joy. In addition, I will keep in mind that there is no dishonor in losing to a worthy adversary, and Rob & Grandraem are definitely worthy.

I'll from now on try to apply the tenents of my martial arts training to my graphic arts, and hopefully next month I can redeem my honor (which doesn't necesarily mean winning, but rather winning or losing honorably).

Top Gun: So I'm the Bob Dylan of Civ III? :lol: I'm flattered... Now all I need to do is change my avatar and title, again :joke:

Harek

Dec 07, 2006, 05:33 PM

I do not know if Attila the Hun is the best leaderhead ever. Someone here said it was. It is the best I have seen though.

Harek

Dec 07, 2006, 05:41 PM

please realise that Grandraem, myself and other artists have every right to win these competitions

This thread should be a celebration of four good leaderheads rather than the woeful exchange it has become.

nice way to put it. you should be a diplomat.

Grandraem

Dec 07, 2006, 05:44 PM

You are part of a competition that inspired 67 people to vote - which I think is the highest tally of voters so far in this competition.

This thread should be a celebration of four good leaderheads rather than the woeful exchange it has become.

:beer: In fact there's 70 votes now, which is not only the most votes we've ever had, but it's currently beating the total number of votes in the unit thread, which is also a first.:)

Hikaro Takayama

Dec 07, 2006, 06:57 PM

I think it may be even more than there have been in any of the unit competitions too, but I need to double-check that!

And I'm still in 3rd place.... Tenno seishun BANZAI!!! (May the Emperor Live 10,000 years; a standard Japanese battle cry)

Blue Monkey

Dec 07, 2006, 07:11 PM

For example, here's the stats for the LH I entered:

Replies to it in the thread = 0
Downloads = 30
Votes = 11 (I voted for myself because I thought I deserved better than I got, so that one doesn't really count since it was a protest vote)

Total Cumulative Artistic Merit = 41

Yours:

Replies to it in the thread = 20
Downloads = 47
Votes = 36

Total Cumulative Artistic Merit = 103
...As I said before, people will lie to you just to make you feel better, but numbers never lie...Not a valid way to measure, even strictly from a statistical analysis standpoint. you're recounting a portion of the vote. People who post in the thread are a selection of those who have already voted on at least one piece they're commenting on. So you're only selecting a smaller segment of an audience you already claim you've lost and counting it twice.

I'm much like the Frank Zappa of Civ III: No real talent, but have a small, but loyal following.Good, good; compare yourself to Zappa. No major record label contract (everyone knows corporations are the true judges of artistic ability). Never gets played on AM radio (obviously a valid measure of artistic ability>QED Brittny Spears is a more talented guitarist than Zappa); furthermore, you obviously have to be a composer of no talent to be asked by Vaclav Havel to serve as a cultural minister. Need I go on?

since few other unit or LH makers would willingly do any FF units or LHs (thanks Orthanc, Quinzy and Sword of Geddon for the ones you guys did make/are making, though, I really appreciate it! :goodjob: ), If I didn't make them, then they wouldn't get made. That is the reason I started unit and LH making in the first place. Of course, that means that the FF mod will be full of sub-par units and LHs, but at least they will be done.Three out of how many active, talented creators? Try that statistic on for size. Compare to other mods in active development. If you truly started creating for the sake of the mod, then do so for the sake of the mod.

Of course, I doubt there are many here who have my deep background information on Huns and thier ilk, and you did an EXCELLENT job otherwise (might use the Industrial Era version of him as the Prince of Austro-Hungary in my private Napoleonic Europe mod, since the King of Hungary is supposedly a direct descendant of Attila) ...That said, those are just my opinions, and the overall facial modelling is great... I'd have voted for you if you'd have just added a few scars, even without changing the clothes, but, that's just because I'm anal for historical accuracy in historical LHs....Look at your own mixed feelings about voting for a LH you intend to use in a mod you're making for your own private pleasure! Do the rest of us the courtesy of presuming that our reasons for not voting for your entry are just as complex.

I've been experiencing mild to moderate depression over things that for the most part have no relation to civ... It just happened that these contests mirrored some of the current situations in my life causing the depression.There's at least one person whose talent you respect who could tell you that I can lend a willing, empathetic, and experienced ear if you want to PM anything.

Finally, I just remembered something that snapped me out of my last major depression: A samurai would go into battle expecting to die, so that way he would not hesitate in the face of the enemy, nor would he show any fear.If I remember Hagakure correctly, it says he should consider himself already dead, and take the attitude that nothing can affect a corpse.

Therefore, I've decided to continue entering my work into these competitions, ...

I'll from now on try to apply the tenents of my martial arts training to my graphic arts, and hopefully next month I can redeem my honor (which doesn't necesarily mean winning, but rather winning or losing honorably).
See you are our Zappa! Do you what you want artistically, stretch beyond the boundaries you were previously bound by, and recognize that aficionados are more important than fans.