Before we go ask TF for new forums, let's give the structure a once-over.

Right now we have:

Civ4 - Game of Democracy
Civ4 - Demo Game: Citizens
Civ4 - Demo Game: Government
Civ4 - Demo Game: Polls
Civ4 - Demo Game: Role Play & Games
Civ4 - Multi-Team Demogame
Team forums
Civ4 - Intersite Demogame

It has been suggested that we should remove the Role Play & Games subforum. I think it would be important to get some discussion on that specifically before we actually do it. Yes, there has been some discussion, but in the context of an organized RPG.

Question: Is there anything you want separated into a RP&G section? Some things which might go well in such a place are
PBEM's Pitboss games SG's Citizen Groups / Political Parties Organized RPG


Dave's answer: I can see potential for DG-specific PBEM, SG, and pitboss threads, if we actually have any of those informal type games. I'm on the fence for the groups and parties, since I thought they take over the citizens forum too much but then segregating them hurt participation. The organized RPG, if we had one, would need its own forum, but we might not need to bother with it.

Question: Do we really need the separate government forum, or should the government information just be distributed among the threads relating to that area? I'm on the fence, if we had people actually keeping up good government threads it would probably be useful, but lately a lot of the government threads don't get the amount of focus they need.

That's enough of my ideas, what do you think?

I dont think we would be needing an RPG forum if we are only going to have a informal RPGing within the game.

General
Polls
Government (official threads only)

MTDG
ISDG

Let's start with just the typical:

Civ4 - Demo Game: Main Forum (turnchat threads, welcome documents, citizen registry, etc. All official threads, really.)
Civ4 - Demo Game: Citizens (discussion forum, as well as role-play, citizen groups, other game-related threads)
Civ4 - Demo Game: Polls (all polls)
Civ4 - Demo Game: Government (place for officials to have a thread for their office to keep track of their goals, screenshots, etc.)
Civ4 - Multi-Team Demogame
Civ4 - Intersite Demogame

I propose moving the polls forum up one slot, as dutchfire has done. Now, to answer the Government versus just using Citizens forum for officials' threads:

When I was a governor in the Civ3 DGs, I liked to use the Citizens forum to post a discussion thread about the province, and then I would use my term thread in the Government forum to post the tenative instructions, so that if people wanted to comment on them, they'd always be in that thread, 1 day before the turnchat.

Perhaps we should mandate officials to post their instructions in their own term threads a day (or even a half day) before the turnchat, in order to allow for discussion on them? But then again, if all the term threads will serve as are more game-related threads, why not just put them all in the Citizens forum, or do away with them?

I simply think that it is good to have a forum where any citizen can go to ask an official a question, or propose a suggestion, without having to start a new thread or PM. It's also nice to actually see who's in our government, perhaps for newbies, but also for people that just showed up. But then again, I wouldn't have a problem with just putting those threads in the Citizens forum.

I like the current set-up. The Main forum always becomes crowded with tcit's and mostly nomination/election threads. So I wouldn't recommend moving threads to there.

We should really encourage government officials to use their threads this demogame. Last demogame it wasn't really encouraged and people just never used them. I like the idea of having the government forum because it provides a place for officials to be directly asked questions. It may hurt the unity of our government a bit, but in my mind the positives are outweighing the negatives.

The citizens forum is a must.

I like the idea of having the rpg forum, because I don't see fit PBEM's, Pitboss' and political parties (citizens groups) going to the citizeforum. And the RPG forum could always be used as a fallout, if we begin to get stuff that doesn't belong anywhere else. It doesn't look like were going to start an organized rpg, but what if the citizens who join up when the game starts like the idea?

I don't see anything wrong with the current forum set up, except the fact that all those nom/elec threads may drive away potential new citizens. I think nom/elec threads should get their own forum. Just think of following a few links, or looking on the main forum page, and clicking on the CivIV Game of Democracy II. You see that it has just started (or maybe were midway in term) and you look at a few faq's and what not. So you try to go around and look at a few threads. When you glance at the main forum, you see a crap load of threads, that basically say the same thing. I remember when I first joined the DG, it looked pretty confusing. The abundance of those threads in the main forum really made the game look complicated. I had to go to the Rebel Pub II and ask questions about the DG (Which was fine, but could of been avoided) and it took effort on MY part to understand the game.

With only faq's, guides, constitutions, laws and maybe a few other informational threads in the main forum, the game might appeal more to newcomers.

I also think giving election/noms there own forum will increase the fun at election time. It will encourage candidates to have a little more fun, maybe create their own threads in their as to why they should be voted for, or run campaigns. I think one of the reasons election time was so dull was because no one really got creative. Most candidates didn't even lay out platforms. People voted based on who they liked more. If we set the precedent, then people will follow. You have to remember,the beginning of the dg can be make or break time. As long as we set precendents, forceful rules won't have to be set, and we can have loads of fun.

So what about:

Civilization IV: Game of Democracy II - Strictly Non-In-Game Informational threads & TCIT's(main forum)
Government Forum - Government Official's Offices and In-Game Informational
Citizen's Forum - Citizen Discussion
Official Polls - Official Polls
Nomination/Election Forum - Nomination and Election Threads/Polls
Role Play & Games - Citizen Groups, Games and Role Play
Multi-Team Democracy Game - MTDG
Inter-Site Democracy Game - ISDG

If we have a good FAQ and "welcome to the DG" thread, and people read it first, then they won't get confused by all the nomination and election threads (which don't deserve their own forum, IMO - it'd be empty for 3 out of the 4 weeks of the month).

That's the whole purpose of the FAQ thread - to be read first and eliminate any questions or confusion that people have.

But, it wasn't that easy from my own experience. Besides the fact that the faq's and what not left out tons of basic info, the nom/elections made it look like getting into the game during the middle of the second term impossible. And the forum wouldn't be mostly empty, because the election/nom threads still sit there, even after they close.

It also goes back to my point about building up hype at election time. I don't see the disadvantage of giving them their own forum.

I personally think the RPG should be kept informal and thus there shouldn't be a separate RPG forum.

Though one thing confuses me....
You mention PBEM Games, Pitboss Games, and SG's for the RPG forum. While I'm not familiar with what a Pitboss game, assuming it's along the lines of Play By E-mail and Succession Games, what do these have to do with the DG to justify putting them in a Demogame Subforum?

On another note I'm neutral on the whole Election/Nomination thread. I like it the traditional way, but have no opposition to a separate forum.

I personally think the RPG should be kept informal and thus there shouldn't be a separate RPG forum.

Though one thing confuses me....
You mention PBEM Games, Pitboss Games, and SG's for the RPG forum. While I'm not familiar with what a Pitboss game, assuming it's along the lines of Play By E-mail and Succession Games, what do these have to do with the DG to justify putting them in a Demogame Subforum?

On another note I'm neutral on the whole Election/Nomination thread. I like it the traditional way, but have no opposition to a separate forum.
Didn't mean to make it seem like we should have organized PBEM's and what not. But, some people do find it fun to have little side-games within the community. I much rather play a pbem with 4-8 players I constantly discuss with in the demogame, then 4-8 players who I have never had contact with before. It gives us a better sense of community and keeps people here.

Didn't mean to make it seem like we should have organized PBEM's and what not. But, some people do find it fun to have little side-games within the community. I much rather play a pbem with 4-8 players I constantly discuss with in the demogame, then 4-8 players who I have never had contact with before. It gives us a better sense of community and keeps people here.

I understand that, but I sorta feel like that should be organized separately in the Multiplayer forum. Because while the players might all be from the demogame community I don't really consider it part of the demogame.

Exactly why it's Role Play & GAMES

This is just a simple matter of opinion. So the only way to decide this is, what does everyone else think?

With only faq's, guides, constitutions, laws and maybe a few other informational threads in the main forum, the game might appeal more to newcomers.


I know when I joined, looking at all the forums and threads, I was a bit overwhelmed.

Though one thing confuses me....
You mention PBEM Games, Pitboss Games, and SG's for the RPG forum. While I'm not familiar with what a Pitboss game, assuming it's along the lines of Play By E-mail and Succession Games, what do these have to do with the DG to justify putting them in a Demogame Subforum?

Personally, Pitboss games, PBEM and SGs related with the Demogame players should be in the Multiplayer forum.

If we have a good FAQ and "welcome to the DG" thread, and people read it first, then they won't get confused by all the nomination and election threads (which don't deserve their own forum, IMO - it'd be empty for 3 out of the 4 weeks of the month).

That's the whole purpose of the FAQ thread - to be read first and eliminate any questions or confusion that people have.

The current RPG forum is empty 4 out of 4 weeks :mischief:

I understand that, but I sorta feel like that should be organized separately in the Multiplayer forum. Because while the players might all be from the demogame community I don't really consider it part of the demogame.

I've seen in the MTDGs that it really helps to keep people here. Especially if the game is moving slower for whatever reason.

I understand that, but I sorta feel like that should be organized separately in the Multiplayer forum. Because while the players might all be from the demogame community I don't really consider it part of the demogame.


I've seen in the MTDGs that it really helps to keep people here. Especially if the game is moving slower for whatever reason.

There's a really interesting tradeoff here. Side games among DG community members "should" help keep people connected to the community, so it might make sense to connect the game to the community within the forum to provide that anchor point. It is also true that if we let side games run amok, they could be distracting.

Putting side games clearly marked demogame in the multiplayer section could also have a beneficial effect. People might see demogame in the title and follow links conveniently placed in the OP or in participants sigs.

Hmm, a side games forum has possible benefits and possible risks. And IMO not enough people commenting yet to result in a decision.

There's a really interesting tradeoff here. Side games among DG community members "should" help keep people connected to the community, so it might make sense to connect the game to the community within the forum to provide that anchor point. It is also true that if we let side games run amok, they could be distracting.

Putting side games clearly marked demogame in the multiplayer section could also have a beneficial effect. People might see demogame in the title and follow links conveniently placed in the OP or in participants sigs.

Hmm, a side games forum has possible benefits and possible risks. And IMO not enough people commenting yet to result in a decision.


Agreed, Dutchfire does make a good point about why it might be helpful to have 'em in a sub-folder. Still not sure if I'll support it, but at least I understand some practical reasoning for it.

Also, we need more people participating in these pregame discussions, it's really slow work with ~6-8 people working on it. Though can't force people to participate in discussions either.... :hmm:

I'd prefer to just keep PBEMs and other multiplayer games (PitBoss? Could be fun!) in a subforum here. Most of the people (if not all) in the Multiplayer & PBEM forum are there because they like the Multiplayer aspect of the game. Why would they suddenly become interested in a Singleplayer game? It might make more sense for possible SGs to go in the SG forum, as those people might be more attracted, but even still, why can't we just have 1 forum for DG-related SGs/PBEMs/MP games/other community games and put a link in our signature?

Not only would it before for side games, but it also helps seperate roll playing threads from citizen discussion, which I feel, if the latter does not affect the first, should not be included in the same sub-forum (it could cause confusion.)

Not only would it before for side games, but it also helps seperate roll playing threads from citizen discussion, which I feel, if the latter does not affect the first, should not be included in the same sub-forum (it could cause confusion.)

Here's an example of how a semi-official thread, with valid in-game content, can also be a center of roleplay, storytelling, and general entertainment. It's just one example of how it can work without having roleplay separate. The Zojoji city thread of DG5. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=97764)

And I present Example Number two

Military Department Term 1 of DG1 Turnchat Updates (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=237545&postcount=44)

Personally I felt the seperate RPG killed the game related role play, in DG2 it seemed to me the citizen forum becaume completely serious and to the point. All the Role Playing was in the RPG forum and it was so organized that it became a completely seperate beast, more of an economic sim on the DG's map more than anything else.

And I present Example Number two

Military Department Term 1 of DG1 Turnchat Updates (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=237545&postcount=44)

Personally I felt the seperate RPG killed the game related role play, in DG2 it seemed to me the citizen forum becaume completely serious and to the point. All the Role Playing was in the RPG forum and it was so organized that it became a completely seperate beast, more of an economic sim on the DG's map more than anything else.
And that I don't like to see happening in future DGs.

Well then if that's what you guys feel is best, you have my vote. You undoubtedly have more experience than me.

The following will be requested. If you disagree with this layout, please disagree soon. :)

Civ4 Democracy and Team Games (no user group)

Civ4 Multi-Team Democracy Game (no user group)

Team Forums (team user groups)

Civ4 Inter-Site Democracy Game (no user group)

Secret forum (team user group)

Civ4 Democracy Game II (citizens user group -- applies to subgroups)

Civ4 Demo Game II: Citizens
Civ4 Demo Game II: Offices
Civ4 Demo Game II: Polls



The team user groups protect all access. The citizens user group protects the ability to post polls and vote in polls.

Got my Okay :goodjob:

We should be above the MTDG and ISDG!

We should be above the MTDG and ISDG!

I don't know how the system decides what order to display forums in. There are 3 major possibilities, alphanumeric sort, forum number sort, and manually placed. We can always request a specific order but it might not be possible.

I don't know how the system decides what order to display forums in. There are 3 major possibilities, alphanumeric sort, forum number sort, and manually placed. We can always request a specific order but it might not be possible.
It orders it in the order the forums were created. After that you can manually rearrange it (I've administrated and moderated quite a few IPB's.)