Welcome to the Civil Defense Board. Our beliefs are to defend our nation, and keep the citizens content to better our resistance to outsiders.

Our charter:
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- Defense, is the backbone of the economy. It is an incentive to produce more, knowing your ventures and gains are protected by law.

- Defense is the backbone of the Republic. The control it exerts dissolves revolutionary uprisings and keeps the citizens in line, bettering their ability to work in the fields and shops.

- Defense is the true showing of power in the world community. The more defense forces that are available, the more we are able to bend and change world opinions and descicions to our needs and desires.

- Defense allows us to live without fear of being attacked when we are at our weakest, knowing that our armed forces can repel an invasion is a truly great thought. The better the morale our men and women have, the more efficient our economy will run.

- Defense forces are the means by which nations extend their control and power. Our forces can seek to extend our power as well.
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We wish to have a large standing army, both offensive and defensive. The citizens will to defend our nation can also be called upon in drafts, and we look fondly upon drafts.

While armies cost money, they in fact give back all they are payed for and more by protecting interests of the nation.

Current Members: 5
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Ohwell
Immortal
Rangers85
donsig
Daaraa
Strider

I proudly support this group, I believe our trade and commerce is useless unless our nation can defend itself. Our economy will prosper without the heavy-handed approach others may propose.

Then What is the Civil Defences position on Building barracks in every city.Present domestic policy is not to build a barracks and produce simply reguler troops.A grave error IMO.Veteran defenders are better and increase the chances of leaders.

Originally posted by marshalljames
Then What is the Civil Defences position on Building barracks in every city.Present domestic policy is not to build a barracks and produce simply reguler troops.A grave error IMO.Veteran defenders are better and increase the chances of leaders.

This is a big YES. Barracks, Harbors, and Airports are important improvements.

But when I say Defense Forces, I mean both offensive and defensive.

Originally posted by marshalljames
Then What is the Civil Defences position on Building barracks in every city.Present domestic policy is not to build a barracks and produce simply reguler troops.A grave error IMO.Veteran defenders are better and increase the chances of leaders.

This is NOT our policy. You are Totally wrong, and I won't sit back when you come to this conclusions on your own. I don't even know were you have gotten these Ideas from. We have only played 24 turns or so... if we would have built a barrack in that time, we might still be stuck with one city and ONE warrior.

The first couple of warriors are only for exploration purposes so they need no extra experience. They should get it on their exploration.

Barracks will be built when the time is right.

I want barracks in all our major cities too.

Originally posted by Immortal
[B]I believe our trade and commerce is useless unless our nation can defend itself. [B] Remember our Military is usless if we don't have the Economy to Support it.

Originally posted by russia1292000
Remember our Military is usless if we don't have the Economy to Support it.

very true, thats why I support another guild as well.

I fully support this board and wish to be a part of it.

Also, on the subject of barracks above. I believe they are important to be in our cities, but not needed at the beginning. As with our charter, I'd rather have 5-7 or so regular warriors out roaming right now rather than 1-2 veteran warriors out roaming. Really helps with our defense in a time of need.

I endorse the CDB. Any organization that draws presidential ire is worth supporting on general priciples.

BTW, Grey Fox, marshalljames was talking about 'present' domestic policy being NOT to build barracks. At the time of his post that was domestic policy. You even said that barracks will be built when the time is 'right' - which you indicated hadn't yet come. If you want to disagree about timing then do so, but be straight with us about what the domestic policy really is!!!

Welcome Immortal, rangers85, and donsig. Our nation will soon recognize our growing numbers and we will influence the senate :nya:

I certainly do hope the War Church recognizes us as not peacemongers, but brothers who are ready for a fight. I am personally a member of the War Church:D

We have at least 14 turns to ready the defenses before war is declared. As members of the CDB I think we should monitor the debate concerning the building of barracks and if neccessary petition the government to move this project along!

Originally posted by donsig
We have at least 14 turns to ready the defenses before war is declared. As members of the CDB I think we should monitor the debate concerning the building of barracks and if neccessary petition the government to move this project along!

Yes! Barracks are needed badly so we can get veteran warriors ready. Then we can make some veteran immortals and increase our military. Once we create enough soldiers our civilized nation will be the model to which the world looks, not to mention the monetary value it will plunder from underneath Abe's nose!:D

But for now we should concentrate on making more warriors, although regulars they can be used for emergency defense. And 3 regular warroirs is far better than one veteran or elite warrior.

3 reg. warriors may be better than one vet warrior but remember that a barracks does not triple the production cost of a unit! Since a barracks costs 40 shields it is equal to 4 reg warriors. Yet, once the barracks is built it will produce vet warriors at 10 shileds per. the question is then what is more important NOW, 4 warriors or a barracks.

In 4000 BC the answer was '4 warriors'. Now that it is after 2000 BC I think the barracks is more important. We now have 9 warriors. 2 are exploring to the south, 2 are on garrison duty, one is healing the other 4 are exploring near America. (This is the best I can tell from the screen shots - I can't look at the game right now.) Not much of a defense and not an offense at all!

The plan being bandied about in the military dept. is to make warriors and upgrade them to immortals. Forgetting for a minute whether we can afford to do this or not, we have to remember that no barracks = no upgrades!

Given the current lack effort in even building a barracks, given that we do not have iron 'on-line' and given that the best defense is a good offense:

We should considers raising a force of archers to invade America.

By the time we start building or upgrading to immortals we could have a force of archers in the field attacking American cities. If we get Abe defending his cities he won't be able to harass ours!

Perhaps...:)

Actually an archer force might not be half bad! We are able to build them I think... and they are cheap. But we should use them marginally. I say barracks in every city! Then make archers, warriors, and Immortals when the time is right. Plus some spearmen. Remember although the best defense is a good offense, we need static defense in all of our cities because once our offense is gone fighting in their back yard, they could send units to OUR back yard.

But above all we just need a large, and well trained army :)

EDIT: the following is moot since the war has been postponed.

we need static defense in all of our cities because once our offense is gone fighting in their back yard, they could send units to OUR back yard.

Right. We currently have four cities: one defended by spearmen, 2 by warriors and the other by nothing! The latter is working on a temple to expand its borders and fighing rights.

Not only must we build an offensive army we must build this staitic defense as well. Since there are only so many shields to go around we have to work with what we have. Building a large army of immortals will take longer.

A maxim of war is to 'strike the fastest with the most.' The key to defeating America AND securing our defenses is to attack with archers.

Donsig... good to see you take an active interest in the well-being of Phoenatica! :hammer:

I'll be keeping an eye on this thread as well as the War Church, but will leave most posting in the Military. But an idea came up here that isn't showing up elsewhere that I wanted to address...

Archers????????

Under our conditions of being shield limited, and with iron within a few turns of coming online, may I ask why...

20 shields for attack value of 2, defense of 1, beats
10 shields for attack value of 4, defense of 2, for about 20 more gold.

Unless I'm missing something profound... this is neither fastest nor best, and there will be *NO* archers built. Trust in the immortals, my friends. They are all we need until cavalry.

In fact, proto-immortals are our best current defenders, at 10 shields for defense 2, plus some gold. And the ones at home only need be upgraded if war is declared on us.

We do thank all of you in the Civil Defense board for your support of homeland defense and the timely construction of barracks, and hope that the others here the voice of the people as expressed here.

General Charis

Charis has a point. Immortals are giving us a tough time in the Japan SG, and we have Samurai!
They are, without a doubt, the badest ancient-age unit in the game.
Give us 6 of them and :hammer:! No more neighbors and room to expand.

You will all be happy to know that iron is a few turns from being connected, and that barracks are in the build queue of two cities. We will not be building barracks in every city, as most will not need them, and they cost 1 gold /turn to upkeep. Two or three cities will be designated as military training sites, and will contain barracks. The rest will be building USEFUL improvements, that actually benefit the empire.

Originally posted by Ohwell
I certainly do hope the War Church recognizes us as not peacemongers, but brothers who are ready for a fight. I am personally a member of the War Church:D Of course, the Knights of the War Church value and recognize the members of the Board as brothers-in-arms and our staunchest allies. ;)

However I won't join as yet as there's been certain talk of segregating organizers/leaders/whatever of citizen groupings from the Administration, so I best keep a lower or no profile at all in such fine organizations. ;)

Re: archers

Another round went by after I brought up the idea of building archers. Even if that round hadn't gone through the idea was of marginal value. (That's why I brought it up here rather than the military thread.) I think the best way to conduct a quick war is to build a force of archers at the outset and use them to conquer a neighbor. Since our nation did not begin this 2000 years ago the usefulness of archers continues to decline. I agree that we have reached the point where archers should not be built.

Despite this, there is still talk of a 'quick' war. I don't see that happening even with immortals. First of all we are a long way from possessing a sizeable force of immortals. Second, I am not sure that upgrading warriors to immortals is a good way to go about raising such a force. The upgrade cost is 40 per. the Military Dept. has stated that a force of 9 regiments is needed for war. That's 360 bags of gold to start. then there would be the 40 bags per for replacements. I doubt we could pull this off and have gold left for any other purposes. Then there is the distance to America itself to consider, as well as the terrain and American resistance to our forces. I think we should not fool ourselves about a 'quick' war.

Two or three cities will be designated as military training sites, and will contain barracks. The rest will be building USEFUL improvements, that actually benefit the empire.

Whoever said barracks were useful? We'll be fine without them as long as we never have to fight anyone.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by eyrei
Two or three cities will be designated as military training sites, and will contain barracks. The rest will be building USEFUL improvements, that actually benefit the empire.

This is blasphemy! Two or three cities that make units, while others make "useful" units as you say is purely ignorant. Can't you wait until cities have a secure defense force before making "useful" improvements? Barracks is in my opinion the most important city improvement in the game. Do you want regular troops flying around everywhere? And with only "Three Cities" making upgrades, its gonna take forever before railroads. Barracks should be the second improvement to be built, the first is a temple. And in EVERY city!

Re: Archers

This would have worked earlier, but I still say we keep a few archers along with our immortals. They are cheap to produce.

And again, we need spearmen in every city, at least 2 or three for border cities, and they MUST have barracks! A barracks is only 40 shields, you can wait it out for veteran troops. Patience is the key. We must attack when the time is right, that is, when we have a large force containing Immortals, spearmen, and horsemen, all veterans.

Nonetheless, we need to make more units right now, our cities are horribly defended. Our exploring warriors should be returning home to defend outposts. And for the being we should make a few archers. Lets get our war machine rolling!

Originally posted by Ohwell


This is blasphemy! Two or three cities that make units, while others make "useful" units as you say is purely ignorant. Can't you wait until cities have a secure defense force before making "useful" improvements? Barracks is in my opinion the most important city improvement in the game. Do you want regular troops flying around everywhere? And with only "Three Cities" making upgrades, its gonna take forever before railroads. Barracks should be the second improvement to be built, the first is a temple. And in EVERY city!

Re: Archers

This would have worked earlier, but I still say we keep a few archers along with our immortals. They are cheap to produce.

And again, we need spearmen in every city, at least 2 or three for border cities, and they MUST have barracks! A barracks is only 40 shields, you can wait it out for veteran troops. Patience is the key. We must attack when the time is right, that is, when we have a large force containing Immortals, spearmen, and horsemen, all veterans.

Nonetheless, we need to make more units right now, our cities are horribly defended. Our exploring warriors should be returning home to defend outposts. And for the being we should make a few archers. Lets get our war machine rolling!

Barracks in every city is absurd. Why does a city need a barracks if it will not be producing troops? Your opinions seem to be based on the idea that we will simply conquer everyone on the road to a domination victory before the end of the middle ages. While this is certainly a viable strategy, it does not suit the democracy game, as it would exclude nearly everyone from having any impact.

Why does a city need a barracks if it will not be producing troops?

Well, troops can ony be upgraded in a city with a barracks. With all the talk about warriors being proto-immortals it makes sense to have at least one barracks in a 'front line' city. If hard pressed by an enemy we might have to actually build warriors in a city without a barracks and march them to a barracks for retraining as immortals. Under those circumstances it would be nice to have the warriors marching towards the action rather than away from it.

Originally posted by donsig


Well, troops can ony be upgraded in a city with a barracks. With all the talk about warriors being proto-immortals it makes sense to have at least one barracks in a 'front line' city. If hard pressed by an enemy we might have to actually build warriors in a city without a barracks and march them to a barracks for retraining as immortals. Under those circumstances it would be nice to have the warriors marching towards the action rather than away from it.

PDX is currently working on a barracks if I am not mistaken, and this is definately a border city. I intend to build that as an upgrade center as it will be pretty corrupt. Soon, we will likely have a barracks in all cities bordering the Americans, so do not worry.

Originally posted by eyrei


Barracks in every city is absurd. Why does a city need a barracks if it will not be producing troops? Your opinions seem to be based on the idea that we will simply conquer everyone on the road to a domination victory before the end of the middle ages. While this is certainly a viable strategy, it does not suit the democracy game, as it would exclude nearly everyone from having any impact.

No, I do not want a domination victory at this time. But veteran troops are better, and you can upograde far faster than with only one or two barracked cities.

Well a barracks in all border cities is better than nothing at all...

I'll join here too as I am considered a warmonger by most. :D

The Babylonians declared war on us when we refused to give them our maps!

we should build our defenses! NOW! our cultural advancements will be well protected, until the great library is complete it is important our forces are large enough to repel the babs. They are too far away for us to build an attack force, and it would be futile anyway, we must defend ourselves!

We must connect our iron deposits, build a barracks and gather some warriors there to be upgraded.

It would be nice to have Greece as an ally but not if we have to use the gold needed to train our warriors as immortals!

WAR!!????????????

This is a horrible time! We need to get some spearmen FAST!:eek:

I say rush one in a city without any.

Welcome aboard Daaraa :)

One thing we have in our favor is the fact that Babylon is far away to the south. We have time to prepare.

My understanding is that we are 3-4 turns away from connecting the iron to Ferris. Ferris's barracks is 11 turns away but another barracks is due in 5 turns. There are 3 warriors in the area currently blocking an American settler. I imagine they will be the first to be trained as immortals.

We should examine our maps and make some suggestions for the defense of our country.

EDIT: The barracks in PDX is 5 turns away but may not be hooked up to the iron. Vet warriors would be produced there and marched to Pherris for retraining. Under this plan PDX would not be able to train immortals.

Originally posted by donsig
One thing we have in our favor is the fact that Babylon is far away to the south. We have time to prepare.

My understanding is that we are 3-4 turns away from connecting the iron to Ferris. Ferris's barracks is 11 turns away but another barracks is due in 5 turns. There are 3 warriors in the area currently blocking an American settler. I imagine they will be the first to be trained as immortals.

We should examine our maps and make some suggestions for the defense of our country.

Where does everyone get this information? I don't have the savefile, is there maps anywhere? Need to know more about our country!

Originally posted by Ohwell


Where does everyone get this information? I don't have the savefile, is there maps anywhere? Need to know more about our country!

The save file is in the presidential thread.

Where does everyone get this information?

I was in the chat room when war was declared so I got the scoop.

As a member of the CDB and Knight of the War Church I am proud to say I urged our leaders not to give into the Babylonian's demands.:D

ohwell----> deep breaths :)

Go to the presidents thread, it has maps and the sav file, the maps are right in the thread.

Also, the reason we have all the info is because we were present at the chat session and had all the info as it happened.

Originally posted by eyrei


The save file is in the presidential thread.

Thanks. Maybe I should check more threads than just this one and the Military Depatment...;)

But We should get some warriors patrolling where Babylonians could come from, to detect an "invasion". I don't want to take an agressive stance, we need to use every last shield to make immortals, and that costs alot of money. Making more for Hammurabi isn't going to help us in the tech, culture, or land races.

Once we take some America, we should concentrate on building up more economic improvements, granaries, etc. and also additional units for new cities and newly conquered cities. I myself am beginnign to say we need to help our economy first, because your military is worthless if there is nothing to protect, but likewise your economy is worthless if there is nothing to protect it. So we should make markets, libraries, granaries, temples, and barracks, but with more units in-between builds.

Lets not get agressive over an ill-tempered Babylonian, they get like that all the time!:lol: They calm down eventually...;)

There is still talk of attacking America in the military thread. This may be a good idea but I wonder who will be defending the homeland if most of our forces are invading America.

Babylon may not be a lethal threat but let's not not ignore them completely! We need some concrete recommendations for defense!

Babylon may not be a lethal threat but let's not not ignore them completely! We need some concrete recommendations for defense!

True!

Current thought, with only one spear in the nation and not close to Grey Fox, was to get a warrior at Grey Fox upgraded to Immortal, maybe both if cash permits.

Two problems: i) if we do NOT ally, Babylon WILL arrive here, and Murphy says it will be right when our strength is far away on the doorsteps of New York city,
ii) if we DO ally, significantly reducing the Babylonian threat, we may have almost NO cash left over for upgrades :( (dunno how cheap Caesar or Alex will go for it, PLUS we have to spring for a embassy)

My solution was rejected and it's too late now: Get off the wonder and onto barracks back at start of last turn, and stop with half-buildup, half-warfare mentality. Now we're trying to do both, and hopes for a smashing ancient era immortal success are virtually nil. My 'salvage' plan is to break the back of America and capture 3 cities - just 3 but their best ones. A limited war with quick immortal thrust we can handle. A two front war with our only real producer out of the game working on a big grain silo... ugh.

Thoughts on homeland defense would be real useful right now!
Charis

After looking things over I have come to some conclusions and would like to offer some suggestions:

1) We need horses (and horseback riding). There is a hill SE of Fox nest that would have horses, fish, two incense and 2 gold within its radius (when borders expand). This spot has been pointed out elsewhere in the forum. We would do well to get that spot before Egypt or America does. From a defensive point it would help to buffer the capital from the rest of the world.

2) There are also horses and grassland NW of Eyr. A site we should settle sooner rather than later.

Khat. will make a settler in about 13 turns. We need one more. I suggest switching from a temple to a settler in Eyr. True, Eyr isn't growing fast enough - settler production would stall a couple turns but I think that settler could reach the spot listed in #1 above before the one from Khatovar. (That one can go NW of Eyr.)

If we build these two suggested cities we'd have 9 and could freely support 36 units. We have 3 workers and one 'scout' warrior (one too far to reach Ferris to be upgraded any time soone - more valuable as a scout). Fox Nest, the city in #1 above, Civ. PDX and Shail. - our border cities - should be garrisoned with 2 spearmen each. The other 4 cities can make do with one spear. That's 14 spearmen for defense. 14 + 3 + 1 =18 leaving 18 freely supported units for offense.

We'd need to build 13 spearmen and six more offensive units. I suggest that Civ. and Shail. switch immediately to spearmen production. They won't be vets but they will do since we're in a bit of a bind. PDX and Pherris should continue with the barracks...

Offense. The best defense is a good offense. We have 12 warriors that can reach Pherris (hopefully) by the time its barracks is done. Those on garrison duty should wait till releived by spearmen. Those blocking the American settler should continue to do so but stay in range of Pherris. The 12 warriors should try to arrive at Pherris in time for the barracks completion so they can be retrained as immortals.

I'm not sure of the cost but think someone said it would be 40 gold per warrior. That's 480 gold to upgrade the 12 warriors! We have 385 now and are pulling in 13/turn. Maintaining that rate we'd have 528 gold - leaving a mere 48 to buy horseback riding and an ally.:( However, we would have 12 immortals concentrated in one strike force.:)

Given this fiscal scenario I see no reason to make more warriors to upgrade to immortals. I do not think we could afford it! Since we could still afford 6 'free' units I'd suggest a couple spearmen and 4 horsemen to patrol our southern border. More horsemen if we can afford their upkeep.

By the time we upgrade the 12 warriors we should know about Babylon's intentions regarding any invasion. Depending on Hammurabi we could use our new immortals to fend off Babylon or invade America.

Sounds good, donsig. :goodjob:

Before we can start any offense, obviously our own cities must be adequately defended and garrisoned. At this stage, citizens unrest can be solved by a few muscular spearmen. We shld be pumping out settlers, workers and spear/warrior, rather than building temples.

We shld build 1-2 cities to the SE of the Nest as well.

Some horse will be nice to deal with those Bab archers when they arrive. :D

I agree that we need cities to the SE and SW of Fox Nest but there's also a spot NW of Eyr that must be settled. Trying to make three settler right now would severly hamper our defensive (spearmen) production.

Originally posted by donsig
I agree that we need cities to the SE and SW of Fox Nest but there's also a spot NW of Eyr that must be settled. Trying to make three settler right now would severly hamper our defensive (spearmen) production.

I really think that we would do best to continue with settlers now, and attack the Americans when we have run out of room to expand. There is still much unsettled territory around us.

I really think that we would do best to continue with settlers now, and attack the Americans when we have run out of room to expand. There is still much unsettled territory around us.

I suggested in this thread that we continue the settler in Khatovar and swith Eyr to a settler now. Trying to make three now goes too far in that direction. The two new cities can make settlers. We need a couple cites recruiting spearmen or we will just be building cities for Babylon.

Also, if we only concentrate on building new cities and temples (and a wonder) AND spend our gold getting someone to fight our Babylonian war for us it will be a LONG time before we can seriously consider implementing manifest destiny.

hmm.
maybe our manifest destiny is to win the UN-Vote?:love:

One of your better posts Donsig, that's a nice plan :P
A few specific comments:

After looking things over I have come to some conclusions and would like to offer some suggestions:

Point 1, wanting horses and a city SE of Fox Nest, and
Point 2, settling NW of Eyr near horses...

So you agree with two key points in the current military recommendation? :p With no mention of it whatsoever, I'm left not knowing if you read our plan or not (which is required for 'feedBACK'). Still... I obviously agree with these two :P

> Fox Nest, the city in #1 above, Civ. PDX and Shail. - our border > cities - should be garrisoned with 2 spearmen each. The other > 4 cities can make do with one spear. That's 14 spearmen for
> defense. 14 + 3 + 1 =18 leaving 18 freely supported units for offense.

That would make a solid civil defense, no doubt. It also 100% kisses off any plan of an offense this era, and with the Nest non-productive for troops, will take at LEAST 35 turns, if all other cities built nothing but spears.

> We'd need to build 13 spearmen and six more offensive units. I
> suggest that Civ. and Shail. switch immediately to spearmen
> production. They won't be vets but they will do since we're in a
>bit of a bind. PDX and Pherris should continue with the barracks...

A workable start.

> Offense. The best defense is a good offense.
:D

This point is I think missed by Knight-Dragon's line:
"Before we can start any offense, obviously our own cities must be adequately defended and garrisoned"

NOT Obviously, I would maintain. If Babylons had not declared war there would be no need for spears or any defense off the American border at all. They will be scrambled to fend us off, in vain, while we march in and take DC, NY, Philly. They're not coming anywhere near our backline cities.

> Given this fiscal scenario I see no reason to make more
> warriors to upgrade to immortals. I do not think we could afford > it!

This may be the voice of reason. Yet... may not 'stop' because they don't NEED to be upgraded now. BUT... we would like to be able to crank out enough warriors for i) MP duty, ii) continued scouting, iii) ability to 'pay upgrade' to immortals if the situation demanded. Then with that number created (closer to 16 or 20 than 12), HOOK UP Pherris and the Iron to the rest of the network.

Still good point, and we've got as many warriors as we can afford to upgrade and should think about some spears.

Horses... a few wouldn't hurt, but I'm not seeing them as useful as immortals or spears right now. If we put the new horse towns we found on horse production after maybe kicking out a spear, that should cover it. Barracks in the SE one (it's a border town) but not in the one NW of the nest.

UN-Vote @Disorganizer!? Now there's a fresh thought! :D
(As long as Abe is not around at that time to vote, and we're enjoying the Forbidden Palace in ex-Washington)

Thanks!
General Charis

Originally posted by Charis
This point is I think missed by Knight-Dragon's line:
"Before we can start any offense, obviously our own cities must be adequately defended and garrisoned"

NOT Obviously, I would maintain. If Babylons had not declared war there would be no need for spears or any defense off the American border at all. They will be scrambled to fend us off, in vain, while we march in and take DC, NY, Philly. They're not coming anywhere near our backline cities.We're laying smack bet a few civs. If we move in one direction (against America), what if another neighbouring civ attk (like now)? What if the Americans get another civ to attk us in the rear? Fr experience, this is almost a sure thing. Are we going to take this gamble?

It's probably a good thing the Babs attked now, otherwise we'd be stuck in a two front war with our Immortals in America fighting an uncertain campaign and our own cities defended by warriors, if anything. I doubt our cashflow would have been enough to upgrade the home defense warriors as well.

General Charis: I did miss the post in the military thread. I personally am limiting my posts now in the department thread to help keep them 'clean' so no one will miss the important posts. I am glad that there is agreement between some of my conclusions and yours.:D

I don't think a wonder should have been started Fox Nest but we have so much invested now we should continue - esp. if the plan is to keep science low and get the Great Library.

I want to clarify that I did not suggest all cities build spearmen. I suggested that Civ. and Shail produce spears for the rest of the nation (starting now). The two cities making barracks (PDX and Pherris) should make horses or immortals - but making warriors for MP duty or future upgrade is feasable. The upgrade idea depends on our cash position - which in turn depends on what we do in the ally versus Babylon arena.

Upgrading 12 of our warriors to immortals in 12 turns or so goes a long way towards giving us an offensive force. Unless of course we have to use then to fend off Babylon and any allies it manages to acquire!

Manifest Destiny = UN vote? That's 'different'!

I agree that we need spearmen. We also need more cities.

And we also need warriors to upgrade and therefor money for their upgrade cost.

PDX was set to build these Veteran Warriors right? And Shail too?

Shail. is working on a barracks but I have suggested it forego that role in favor of producing regular spearmen now. I know other members of the CDB may call this heresy but I think regular spearmen are ok for garrison duty. With two cities producing regular spearmen and two cities with barracks (PDX & Pherris) producing offensive units the rest of our cities can build settlers and temples and wonders galore. The spearmen producing cities would also be able to produce other things once they have produced enough spearmen to garrison our cities. In a nutshell that is what I have proposed.

We must keep the big picture in mind. As one of the 'warmonger' crowd I have not and am not advocating we switch all cities to military production and nothing else. I wonder if the 'other' faction has been advocating build only settlers, temples and wonders. I must confess I've been hearing that but that may not be fair. They may not be saying that at all. Any non-warmongers want to speak up on this issue?

As a peace-loving citizen, I would feel safer with some long-pointy-stick-carrying people protecting me. I feel that some untrained spearmen (& maybe an archer or 2) would be enough to ward off the dreaded Babylonians (do they have bowmen?).

(I agree with the veteran Immortals & regular spearmen. Obviously, we should not build towns we can not protect. If we can keep 2 'defender' cities, 2 'attacker' cities, 2 'settler' cities, the rest is bonus.)

Anyone else besides me and chiefpaco think we should build spearmen NOW?!?

I agree that we should build spearmen. But we also need cities and Warriors (to upgrade). We need so much.

I will see to it that we build spearmen somewhere.

I will see to it that we build spearmen somewhere.

Bravo! FYI: Cyc endorsed switching the temple in Civinator to spearmen. His post is in the city production summary thread.

Attention fellow members of the CDB:

There is a poll asking whether a temple or spearmen should be raised in Civinator. Please vote soon as we are nearing turn chat time!

Iroquois ally with Babylonians!\\Film at 11....

We bought America's map for 7 gold!:)

Was their map big?

Kill India! Kill Babylon!

Make a spearman! Must have soldiers! More of them! MORE! :mwaha:

:crazyeye:

I voted spearman. :D

You know I should start reading the presidential thread...

The Iroquois Ohwell, not the Indians!

This isn't in the presidential thread yet - turn chat is happening now. I'm bringing you live updates.:D

We have an embassy with the Aztecs now.

EDIT: No word yet on how big America is.

Originally posted by donsig
The Iroquois Ohwell, not the Indians!

This isn't in the presidential thread yet - turn chat is happening now. I'm bringing you live updates.:D

We have an embassy with the Aztecs now.

EDIT: No word yet on how big America is.

Hehe well destroy the Iroquois then! (they both begin with an "I
" ;))

Entering CHat now!:)

I am worried by ancient wars... it gets me on edge. We need more units fast!:eek:

News FLASH!!!

Aztecs ally with Iroquois!!!

We now have 2 spearmen!

American squatters approach PDX!!!

Film at 11...

America has allied with Babylon!

Greece joins war against Phoenatica!

We are now at war with Babylon, Iroquois, Aztecs, America and Greece!:eek:

ROME declares war on Phoenatica!

will egypt follow as well?

OH MY GOD! I SAID to make more spearmen! This is why this organization was formed, to make more units so this WOULD NOT HAPPEN!!!!!!!!


We have to make spearmen NOW!!!!!:eek:

Originally posted by Ohwell
OH MY GOD! I SAID to make more spearmen! This is why this organization was formed, to make more units so this WOULD NOT HAPPEN!!!!!!!!


We have to make spearmen NOW!!!!!:eek:

with all due respect ohwell, no number of spearmen would have prevented this.

Originally posted by Immortal


with all due respect ohwell, no number of spearmen would have prevented this.

Actually with all due respect if we had a larger military they would not have attacked us. They would not have threatened us in the first place.

well, we will have a heavy military build-up now, so hopefully we can make the best of a bad situation

Note: I was also in favour of having a large defensive force

I think military forces will become quite popular in Phoenatica soon.;)

We must ensure that our citizens do not panic. There is no need to learn American. Phoenatican will be spoken in Washington!

Once we retrain our warriors many nations will quickly rethink their war plans.

I just want to remind everyone that this was our destiny. Once we got the Sign from our God, would our Soldiers(Warriors) become Immortal, and our quest could start.

This is that moment. This is what our ancestors were talking about.

Our preparations were just right, everyone expects us as weak now, when we get our Immortals online, guess who would laugh last!

We sent some people over to Egypt and and they made a deal to buy four new technologies from our friends to the south and east. We have aggreed to pay Cleopatra 5 gold per turn for 20 turns.

We also have three regiments of IMMORTALS now!

Game put on hold for reasons beyond our control (MOM).

I wish to join the Civil defense board

I wish to join the Civil defense board

Welcome friend! Now, grab one of those pointy sticks over there - the Americans are coming!

Why don't I just borrow one of the Immortal swords? I'm in pherris and I've got three of 'em here. (The Cabinet likes me so they guard me well :)

Yes, Welcome Strider. Your input and services are appriciated :)

So, Informant Donsig, how is the situation? (Haven't been able to download the file now... :()

Seems like you are more interested in this entire game than I am! :D

Well whoever we are at war with shall soon feel the might of our new spears and our elite swordsmen!:king:

Seems like you are more interested in this entire game than I am!

I don't know if I'm more interested than you are, Ohwell. I'm just able to post while I'm at work and the game is much more interesting than work.:D

So, Informant Donsig, how is the situation? (Haven't been able to download the file now... )

The current debates revolve around turn chat and COC (Chain of Command). The CDB and War Church threads are getting buried. This concerns me since we're still at war with six countries!

But the members of the CDB should be happy to know that we have learned how to ride horses from the Egyptians! I think our newest settler will try ro settle near a supply of the beasties. The retraining of our warriors has begun! As noted above we now have 3 immortals in Pherris.[dance] I think all cities except Fox Nest have been ordered into military production. (There might be one city making a settler.)

Originally posted by donsig


I don't know if I'm more interested than you are, Ohwell. I'm just able to post while I'm at work and the game is much more interesting than work.:D

Heh, it seems like everybody on these fora use worktime to post :lol:

Well now that we have horses I say we should focus on making alot of these as they upgrade to future units, and the speed is worthwhile. Immortals can be sent in later, the horsemen are good starting units for taking border and backwater cities, while immortals are for the tougher cities.

And I certainly hope our spearman garrisons is adequate :)

We are still at war with most known Civs right? I say we should try for peace with the farther away ones, and attack the closer and weaker nations. This will save us units, and possibly cities.

But I am happy to hear our military is more than adequate :D :D :D

We don't actually have horses yet Ohwell. We got horseback riding from Egypt and we have a settler that will try to make a city near horses. Making horsemen is still down the road a bit. Only one turn was played on Sunday so not much has changed.

Only One turn? What happened that made them quit?

So are plan is still to attack the Americans? I wonder who's going to win.... Things are looking up for us just as long as we don't get units coming in from all 6 countries( I mean one after the other)

"with all due respect ohwell, no number of spearmen would have prevented this."

Sorry that's wrong.The AI picks on weak players.It knows full well how many military units you have.If you keep a large enough standing army the AI will never attack.My original stagegy in the civ3 game was isolationist so I should know.
We are in this mess because we are weak.I been calling for barracks and veteran units since day one and have met nothing but resistance,being told I don't know what I'm talking about.

marshalljames - we weren't considered weak becasue we didn't have barracks and veteran units, but because we had one speamen and some warriors.

We are getting barracks now.

India declares war on Phoenatica!

D'oh!

however, they declared on their own terms after a refusal of tribute, not part of the alliances.

Originally posted by Immortal
however, they declared on their own terms after a refusal of tribute, not part of the alliances.

Ah, tribute demaders I see. Well they will pay for their foolishness once we get our military adequately sized! Perhaps 100 immortals will do.

:mwaha:

the type of unit does not matter to the ai. just the number of units you have. if you have enough units, you are considered strong.

Hmm well I think our organization will be mighty popular soon... were gonna kill some AI! :mwaha: Now we can make lots and lots of units! :mwaha:

[party] [dance] Celebrate! A toast to victory! We can control the WORLD!!!

Don't Mind me, I am a little on the tipsy side again ;)

In the year 650BC the great bells of the city Philladelphia began to ring again, as our victorious armies marched into the city standing unblemished from the defenders of the city. Our battle for our survival will continue, and the citizens will cheer triumphantly our name for decades to come.

YEAH! We can take over America and others shall tremble! We can keep taking over 'our' lands! Lets just keep making soldiers and take over the continent! :mwaha: Well good that we got ole Philadelphia, New York is next!

Resistance is futile! :mwaha:

Egypt joins Dominos!

Oh, sorry, Zulus haven't declared war on us yet!

We defeated the barbarian horde!

hahahaha! donsig I feel sorry for you, in all of ouy SGs and this game we are at war with Cleo :lol:

Well that's one less peace treaty we have to break :mwaha: Lets take this oppurtunity to take as many cities as possible and leave all in the dust! :D

Zululand has joined the domino alliance

Zululand joins DOMINOS!

Hah that is actually funny, but it could get serious. Lets make some spearmen pronto! We need some more defense units to handle all that.

What a mess. Oh well, it'll give us warmongerers something to talk about. :)

In my just started SP game last night (cos I have no SGs to play), played the Persians. Used the warriors-immortals upgrade/science to zero-buy techs/peace for money tricks with devastating effect. By 450 BC, already trouced the Romans (captured 2 and destroyed 6 cities) badly.

Sorry donsig; up next would be Cleo (they're the second biggest and in the west). I want that continent for meself. :D :lol: I got 10+ cities and all except one are beside a river. :)

i would like to join the civil defence board.:D



..........please:love:

my email is fjenssen@online.no

Since Ohwell hasn't been around lately I will welcome you into the Civil Defense Board trader/warrior.

Welcome! This organization must get active again. We still have spearmen defending Phoenatica. This is unthinkable in this day and age. It is already 1130 AD!

BTW - with a name like trader/warrior you should check out the Spice Traders Guild and the War Church!

the founder or the leader of this citizen-group should register the group in the citizen-group registry (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23800)!

Our founder is gone and we have no leader!

Be that as it may, this ancient organization must be resurrected. There is a dangerour war on the eastern border of Kashmir. We must be prepared to defend Phoenatica should the conflict spill over!

We still have muskets and pikemen defending our cities! We need better defenses NOW!