Demigod game didn't go so well so we are going for Emporer with no huts/barbarians.

Parameters:
Patch: 1.22 C3C
Level: Emporer
Variant: Always War (No initial trading)
Civilization: Celts
Map Type: 362 x 362, Continents (70% water)
Barbarians: NONE
Rivals: 30
AI Aggression: Normal
Victory Condition: Any
Culturally linked starts: OFF
Respawn: Off
Preserve Random Seed: On
Cultural Conversion: On

I decided against hidden diplomacy for this game. We must immediately declare war (no trading first) upon contact, but can see if we are ahead or behind, look at graphs, etc.

Here is a picture of the start. It is not the first one I got - I wanted to start on a river. I also skipped yet another desert/floodplain start since we did that twice before.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/GR15_BC4000.jpg

Roster:
Greebley
markh
Northern Pike
vmxa
M60A3TTS
ThERat

I was thinking of moving off the Bonus Grassland.

Do you think we should move onto the hills for more defense (say West) or NE onto the grassland?

Thank you for the no desert start. :D If we need the hill to save us, we probably cannot be saved.

Tough break on the last game, fellows.

Hopefully the RNG will be on your side on this one. :)

I went ahead and played.

We built Warrior, Warrior (both explored until we found a good spot), settler, warrior, and started on Barracks.

I built Alesia on a river next to two cows. It is South of our Capitol and is thus likely to be safe. Since Alesia has food, I was thinking of building Settlers out of Alesia and Troops in the Capitol (with maybe an occasional settler).

Alesia is building a worker in 5 turns (unusual for a town to be able to build a worker in 5), and then can start either a Granary or Settlers. I think a Granary first is better since Alesia has more food than anywhere else and enough shields for the granary after we mine the cows (we can get a settler every 4 turns with the Granary).

Once we hit the city limit Alesia will be an excellent city to built the GLib in.

For research I went for archers once again (considered spears first), but this time I went for min research. This will save up a lot of cash which in turn will allow us to run 100% science on later techs for a good while. There are enough rivers that we will be able to run techs faster than 50 turns I suspect.

I like this start even though there was no food bonus next to our capitol. It is very strong in shields and our second town can pump out the needed settlers.

We should also build more workers than last time I think. Maybe the capitol can build them when it is bigger.

I also think we should place towns near Alesia to give it more BG squares to make sure it can get to the settler every 4 turns.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/GR15_BC3000.jpg

That looks like a pretty fantastic starting place. Lot's of commerce, shields, forest for chopping, hills for defense bonus, tundra in south (which means there probably won't be any AI civs that way)...

Could you please upload the 4000BC save? I'd like to try this as a normal game. Also I don't see the save for the next player.

He has not said he was finished with this turn, so no save yet.

WC is ok, but let's make sure we get BW next.

this is looking so green and nice, unlike the desert stuff we had recently, no more sickness here :D

I agree with WC on min, then BW, masonry, alpha, writing, lit at max.
Alesia as the GL city looks pretty decent.

By the way, Greebley, I suggest we continue with vmxa in the Roster...

By the way, Greebley, I suggest we continue with vmxa in the Roster...

That would be fine with me.

Making a non-capital city with corruption the settler factory always poses some extra technical problems, but I agree that it's the right call here.

Since Greebley reached 3000 BC, I assume that his set is finished and he did just forget to post the save. Use of "Quote" doesn't reveal an invisible save.

I did forget the save. Going with vmxa sounds good to me...
The 3000 BC save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/14765/Gr15_BC3000.zip)


Roster:
Greebley
markh
Northern Pike
vmxa - Up
M60A3TTS - On Deck
ThERat

Have fun with it. Actually finishing it single player is a major undertaking, but still fun to play with even if you don't:
The initial 4000 BC save as requested (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/14765/Gr15_BC4000.SAV)

Hmm. Judging by the order of the posts, Vmxa may not know that he's up.

No I did not, I thought Mark was after Greebley and I had two more players to go? I have down loaded the save, but I just got to work. So I will play when I get home, if I am still up. Did we have skip or two that I missed?

It was ThERat's suggestion that we continue where we ended in the last game where you were up.

Ah, I did not follow that. I was not sure what was being said. I could have play by now, sorry.

I did not even note the UP in the roster, I just sort of glanced and saw I was not after you and went on my merry way. That is what I get for getting home at 1030 or 11 at night.

sorry guys to cause this confusion, I just thought it's better to continue where we stopped :blush:

PRE:
none really

2950BC: 2900BC: 2850BC: nada

2800BC:
worker done, start warrior. Worker I am torn between minning both cows to get max shields and getting extra food. I go for irrigation of the cow that has water first and then a road to get the captiol connected. Would mine the other cow.

2750BC:
Work starts irrigation

2710BC: 2670BC: nada2

2630BC:
The idillic life of Brennus gets a rude awakening as a Dutch warrior comes into view. I did not check what they had to offer before declaring as I was unsure of the rule.

I figure that if it was ok to at least speak, but not trade, we could use CA2 to find out later.

2590BC:
Warrior forts up on the hill. Start roading the cow tile. Warrior finished and I send out the vet warrior.

I was not sure which way to go on the build here as it looks like we could stand a rax here and some troops. We could use a granary also and even a temple to get the borders expanded to use for a pre.

I started a temple and we can decide what to do later.

2550BC:
Another choice for worker turns. The worker in the capitol could go mine and road the BG tiles, but I am not sure we can defend them for long.

I opt to road to Alesia as it will need the road for happiness and to get troops to it.


http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/42522/G15_BC2550.SAV

I think we should churn out vet warriors later archers and spear in our capital and build as many settlers as possible in Alesia...warriors should be enough to keep the Dutch at bay for now

It is risky to get next to the invader, but I think we will be worse off to let it sit until it gets some backup. If we can kill it now, we can heal in time for the next unit.

I am not sure if the AI will attack or stay fortified and even which would be better for us. In theory having him attack is probably better, but with a defense of one, I am never comfortable with that.

I think we should churn out vet warriors later archers and spear in our capital and build as many settlers as possible in Alesia...warriors should be enough to keep the Dutch at bay for now

I agree with cranking out units. With two cows, Alesia would seem to be the idea spot for settlers.

I think both cows could have been mined. We get +5 food even with both mined. If one is irrigated though we can work a forest so there isn't really a problem that we irrigated it. It works out the same.

As I stated I would build towns to expand Alesia's borders to save the time for a temple. A granary seems best to me followed by settlers while the capitol (and other towns) build units.

Roster:
Greebley
markh
Northern Pike
vmxa - Just Played
M60A3TTS - Up
ThERat - On Deck

The two issue with building a town to get expansion is that we do not plan on going CxxC AFAIK. The other issue is that we may not be up holding towns in that direction right away.

I agree that the cows could be mined and I gave it some consideration. The tipping point is that we will not have a granary for a little while. By the time we really need the mine, we can afford to mine it. I suspect we will find a few points where workers have to stay close to home.


PS The consideration on a temple is that if Alesia is to be the wonder site, it will need one to keep that extra pop working a tile. It does not have to be right now since we ran into someone already.

I'd say that after it builds its present warrior and one more, the capital should produce a settler unless we're under pressure from the Dutch. Otherwise the wait for Alesia's first settler--even assuming an immediate switch to a granary there, which is clearly the right play--will be rather long.

I'm not sure about the timing of pre-building the GLib in Alesia after we've produced enough settlers there. It'll certainly work if we hit the global city limit quickly, but then we'll be planning on a bad outcome, in essence. I think I'd rather start the pre-build in our third or fourth city, and let a long building period make up for the fact that that town won't be as strong as Alesia. That way we won't risk having to choose between waiting too long on the pre-build and ceasing production of settlers while we could still use them.

Ya that plan for the Glib sounds less complicated. Starting the prebuild can't happen until we have masonry which I think we should go for after BW.

Many of my AW games go this way in tech when I am making the decision:
Warrior Code - Bronze Working - Masonry - Iron Working (Pottery somewhere as well). Masonry gives walls which makes it a good build - towns can defend better with less unit loss.

If we do this order we can start the prebuild when we want to. I feel IW before going for Lit makes sense. There aren't huts to make the AI get too many techs this time.

I could also see Iron Working before Masonry if we preferred. We usually don't get iron right away though while masonry gives an immediate advantage. That is why I like that order.

I prefer holding off IW for at least after masonry or even alphabet. Reason is that we will get our GA with it and it should be used to invest into the GLib if needed.
If we are only writing and literature away from GLib, we can use the beakers for it. This would be very important IMHO.

I suggest BW - masonry - alphabet - IW - writing - literature

I like that plan NP and the one before it. If we need IW that soon, it would be very homely. If we find we hit the city limit about the time we get Masonry, we can consider changing to IW to use our UU to get a few more towns to up our research rate.

I was surprised how fast the limit was hit last game. Got it, will play today or tonight.

It would be interesting to know how much off that was due to being DG and how much was becasue they got settlers/cities and warriors from huts. The warriors allow them to go ahead and build something else.

Anyway those factors will not apply this time, so we should do much better.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/GR15_2150_BC.SAV

Preturn- I like all the BGs of this map, and the hills look to be the path the AI will take to get to us.

IBT- Dutch warrior attacks our warrior and dies. We lose 1 hp. Entremont warrior>warrior

Turn 1 (2510BC) Move warrior southeast from Entremont.

IBT- quiet

Turn 2 (2470BC) Worker finishes irrigating cow, move to the next.

IBT- Entremont warrior>settler

Turn 3 (2430BC) Find the coastline to the east. That will be helpful.

IBT- Quiet

Turn 4 (2390BC) Quiet. Lux to 20%

IBT- Quiet

Turn 5 (2350BC) Change Alesia build from temple to settler.

IBT- Alesia settler>warrior

Turn 6 (2310BC) Move settler west.

IBT- Quiet

Turn 7 (2270BC) Still no signs of Dutch

IBT- Entremont settler>warrior

Turn 8 (2230BC) Lux to 20%

IBT- Alesia warrior>worker

Turn 9 (2190BC) Lugdunum founded. Start warrior. Something of an icepack to the south of there.

IBT- Entremont warrior>worker

Turn 10 (2150BC) Fortify settler west of Entrmont. I think we should settle in place this turn, but will leave it open to discussion and next up. And done.

Exploration of the terrain determined that we have something of a safe haven in which to build, given that we found the coast and are clearly placed in the southeast corner of the world. We have a warrior exploring in the south, and he can continue to move west to establish what’s along the coastline. I wouldn’t go too far north at this point, we have plenty to work with right here. No luxes found yet.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/GR15_2150BC.JPG

save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/GR15_1750_BC.SAV)

Pre-Turn
MM a little, those workers would all finish before we grow, not good
capital to warrior, Alesia to settler and 3rd city to rax
also reassing cow to Alesia, it's our settler factory and should stay there

1.2110BC
found city #4, income up to 14gpt

2.2070BC
Alesia grows to 3, will finish settler in 4 with growth

3. 2030BC
warrior in the north steps on hill and runs into 4 Dutch warrior...

4.1990BC
well, those Dutch units do not attack but need to go round our warrior, good, we need to delay them so we get archers soon
capital gets another worker and goes for growth now

5.1950BC
follow the Dutch units...

6.1910BC
we get a warrior and settler

7.1870BC
Dutch mini stack heads for our 4th city, we need more units there, lucky it is behind a river

8.1830BC
a 5th warrior comes into view from the north

9.1790BC
lose vet warrior to reg warrior on defense, their warrior promotes :mad:
we have 3 units in our city, they have 4 outside...
found 5th city in the south to get yet more BG's for Alesia

IT :dance:, Dutch waste their units and give us this nice present
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/gr151750.jpg

10.1750BC
form an army, likely be filled with archers so we can even raze enemy cities once we hit the limit
take out the last offender with our *warrior
swap Alesia to granary, we need that for a proper settler factory
we will have 400gold for nice deficit research from next turn onwards

I suggest BW, then masonry, alphabet, writing and lit (we can get BW in around 11 turns currently)

the situation, my suggestion for city spots with somewhat less dense builds
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/gr151750b.jpg

Sweet got a leader. No furs down in the ice flows, to bad. Yes we pretty much agree on BW and then Masonry. We will probably have to evaluate again when alpha is to start.

That would be ideal and with no one else showing up and an army, we can probably go for Alpha. At least those mountains means we have a good shot at Iron.

I have lost internet access. Skip me for now and I will post when I am back online. I will be working on this Monday I hope.

ThERat, you are in all my games, can you mention this in those threads too?

The games are listed in my sig.

well, since Greebley started this round anyway, I guess it's fine to continue with markh now...

Roster:
Greebley
markh - up
Northern Pike
vmxa
M60A3TTS
ThERat

Remember to change the warrior to an archer in our capital next turn

Ok, I got it, but I have to finish my turnset in another SG today, so I won't be able to get to it before tomorrow.

Yeah that should work out ThERat. I bought a new system so I could handle this game on my back up machine when it gets bad and still have access to the net and do things.

In the process I got an LCD and was shocked at the brightness running at 1440, civ looks new.

Well it took all day, but they got internet service up again. I can take a swap instead of a skip.

I have not yet started to play, so you can still take it, Greebley. I am to finish my turns in another SG this evening, so most probably I would not start with this one before tomorrow evening.

Ok, I got it.

Preturn: Decided to switch newly built Richborough to a temple to get the Wheat (rather than Barracks right away).
Otherwise no changes.

I do agree with Markh on the need for more workers - our towns are using unimproved tiles. I will try to do something about this.

Early:
Get WC and switch the capitol to an Archer.
Go for Bronze Working at 100% science in about 11 turns.

A Warrior spots Rome from a mountain near Camulodunum. We declare war.

Mid:
Lux to 10%
Colossus completed by Mayans.
Alesia finishes the Granary (and grows next turn). Starts a settler.
Archer Army with two Archers in it attack and kill 2 Warriors (Dutch)
Roman Warrior outside Camulodunum and we kill it to free up the BG.
Camulodunum is building an Archer after its Barracks, but Lugdunum is building a Worker first before starting to build units. We need the worker.

Late:
Start on a Settler in Alesia.
Lux is up, but we met another civ so BW is still due in 1 turn even though we lowered science.

Notes:
Alesia may need a temple if we don't want to raise Lux to very high levels. In fact with no luxuries at all and cheap temples, most cities might want them as they grow bigger.

Picture is about the same. I settled no new towns since we were building the granary.

The Save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/14765/Gr15_BC1500.zip)

Roster:
Greebley - Just Played
markh - UP
Northern Pike - On Deck
vmxa
M60A3TTS
ThERat

So we now have three civs to fight? Why do we send warriors out to see new land, when we are not able to expand yet? Would we not want to stay very close to home and not expose new tiles, until we needed to know where to expand into?

IBT : BW -> masonry
Alesia : settler -> settler
Camulodunum : archer -> spear

1) 1475BC : moving units

IBT : Entremont : archer -> worker

2) 1450BC : moving units

IBT : Richborough : temple -> rax

3) 1425BC : moving units

IBT : Entremont : worker -> spear

4) 1400BC : same as before

IBT : Alesia : settler -> settler
Lugdunum : archer -> archer
Camulodunum : spear -> archer

5) 1375BC : moving units

IBT : nothing

6) 1350BC : found Verulamium -> rax

IBT : Entremont : spear -> archer

7) 1325BC : not much

IBT : nothing
a hoplite appears from the West

8) 1300BC : declare war on Greece

IBT : Alesia : settler -> settler
Lugdunum : archer -> spear
Camulodunum : archer -> worker

some Dutch units appear from the North

9) 1275BC : archer kills a Roman warrior

IBT : Entremont : archer -> worker

10) 1250BC : lose an archer on a Roman archer at Camulodunum
found Gergovia -> rax

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/47099/GR15_BC1250.zip

expansion seems to go well, let's continue to settle fast until we hit the limit. Alesia is a great settler farm, I would like us to settle north or our capital in the hills to attract suicides from the Dutch...

Now, we have Greece and Rome as enemies, their UU is not nice..lucky we have an army already, so we can get rid of the hoplites...has anyone seen legions already? That could get nasty...

Now, that we have masonry almost, at least we can build walls. I would auggest to start the prebuild in Alesia once we have alphabet and in order to let the city grow, a temple might be a good idea since we have still no lux.

and guys, we have so much cash, please run 100% science at all times...the more cities we found the less the unit cost

I've got it.

No legions yet. Just warriors and archers. The hoplite went back after we declared war. It took Greece long to find us, so I guess he is quite far away.

1000 BC, end of turn (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/33960/Gr15_BC1000.SAV)

1250 (0): I know we need workers, but the worker build in the capital is bad, because losing a pop point will condemn the town to another seven turns of nine spt rather than ten. I cancel that one.

The Roman warrior next to Verulamium easily kills our archer there (0-1).

Camoludnum worker --> walls pre-build.


1225 (1): We shoot down the yellowlined Roman archer south of Ver. (1-1).

Our army disposes of a Dutch spearman, but takes a lot of damage (2-1).

Entremont spearman --> spearman.


1200 (2): We cut down a Dutch archer/warrior pair outside Ent. (4-1).

Masonry --> Alphabet.

Alesia settler --> settler.

Lugdunum walls --> temple.


1175 (3) Ent. spearman --> spearman.


1150 (4): Our healed army smites another Dutch archer (5-1).

Cam. walls --> spearman.

Ver. walls --> barracks.


1125 (5): Our army accounts for another two Dutch archers (7-1).

Ent. spearman --> worker. Now we can do this without having the town fall below 10 spt.

Richborough barracks --> spearman.

The Sumerians build the Pyramids.


1100 (6): We found Augustodurum on a hill north of the capital to attract Dutch attacks, as suggested.

A Roman warrior perishes attacking Ver.'s new walls (8-1).

Ent. worker --> spearman.

Alesia settler --> settler.


1075 (7): Our army smites another two Dutch archers (10-1).

Lugdunum temple --> palace pre-build for GLib.

The Iroquois complete the Oracle.


1050 (8): We found Agedincum NE of Ent.

Our army deals with yet another pair of Dutch archers (12-1). Since the Dutch are sticking to rough terrain, I can't make these attacks with archers for promotion purposes.

A second Roman warrior falls attacking Ver. (13-1).

Ent. spearman --> spearman.


1025 (9): Richborough spearman --> archer.


1000 (10): Not much.

I've started the GLib pre-build in Lugdunum, which has walls and a temple. I think this is simpler and better than letting circumstances (the global city limit) dictate when we can start it in Alesia; and anyway, Lug. can use one of Alesia's cows if necessary.

Our settler on the east coast can found a city either where it is or two tiles to the south. I prefer the latter site, close though it is to Gergovia, since it gives us the same two BG immediately and sets up a strong commerce town in the long term.

Please note the MM of Ent. and Aug., which are exchanging a two-shield tile every turn (and Agedincum has to give up the roaded river BG tile when Aug. needs it ;)).

I didn't see a Greek unit this round.

Pushing north:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/33960/GR15-1000BC.JPG

looking good, now we have 9 towns and Alesia will pump more, maybe we can get others as well to get more cities sooner.

I have to ask again, with a prebuild started that early, we need to increase science to 100%. I still see it at 70%, what is the reason for that?

Writing and literature will take some and we need more towns to increase the palace prebuild time. But that limit is big I assume.

Let's hope we can get maybe anther army for future city razing...

I have to ask again, with a prebuild started that early, we need to increase science to 100%. I still see it at 70%, what is the reason for that?

Happiness, of course, given our total lack of luxuries. Are you thinking in Civ IV terms, or something? :confused:

Happiness, of course, given our total lack of luxuries. Are you thinking in Civ IV terms, or something?:crazyeye: :crazyeye: :crazyeye: I am really getting senile...stupid me, apologies for that...

Roster:
Greebley
markh
Northern Pike - Just Played
vmxa - Up
M60A3TTS - On Deck
ThERat

Keep expanding. we want to grab as many cities as we can. Note that location isn't vital as we can move cities later to better sites by abandoning and rebuilding - city count is more important. Obviously we only want to do this if necessary, but it is still better to build a stupid tundra town than it is to not use a settler. I would keep Alesia on only settlers until we hit the limit. Maybe slip in another one or two as well elsewhere.

I am at work, but I have got the save now in my friendly flash drive.

I would keep Alesia on only settlers until we hit the limit. Maybe slip in another one or two as well elsewhere.

Yes. Ideally, any town about to reach size seven would produce a settler, since we won't be able to keep size 7+ cities happy without an excessively high lux rate anyway.

I would keep Alesia on only settlers until we hit the limit. Maybe slip in another one or two as well elsewhere.

We will need to be careful to keep a settler ready in the position we want as soon as the limit is reached. Otherwise it's likely the AI will beat us to settling city #512. It should be a same-turn process of raze and settle. After each IT once we're at the limit we shouldn't fail to at least try to settle if a spot is available just in case the AI leaves us the opportunity.

Ya, good point. Sometimes the AI raze more cities than they settle and you can grab an extra one. I remember that from AG3. We need to remember to try every turn or we miss it. It is fairly rare IIRC, but it happens.

Got home close to 11, so not much done tonight. May as well post the small log to get any feedback.


Pre:
Look at the shield swap and if we could get the grassland tile mined in Entremont, we could stop swapping the tile to Entremont as it would then have 10spt.

Will move the settler to the forest tile as suggested as not much value in the current spot.

I think we do not need to worry about some tiles not being used in this map.

IBT:
Looks like Rome has sent along two more units as have the Dutch?

975BC:
Camulodunum finished Temple and I go for a worker we just have too many unworked tiles. We also need a hitter down there, so an archer will be next I suspect.

Alesia finished a settler and starts another. Not sure what the plan is for the one we just got as I am not sure where the action is from. I do not want to move into the tundra area and the moutains seem like an area that can also wait.

The only reason to move that way is to ensure Iron, but we have a lot of hills already.

Going NE as you look at the HOME looks good, but will get us closer to some civ.

Going East looks like the best land, but it is a long way to travel right now. Since it is late here I will post this and check in in the AM to see if anyone has a preference or a plan.

the land to the east looks good, I would send settlers there

IIRC the Dutch are coming from the north via those hills. The Romans seem to be in the northwest? Though it will take some turns to get settlers west, it might be wise to fill those spots...we have to see at which point we hit that limit. I would say, sending out that archer army might be a good idea to check for better spots and Dutch cities.

Once the city limit is reached we should be safe from more nations since no settler pairs would be sent out

The only real concern to me is that the time needed to get a settler to a spot to settle will take long enough now that we will lose out on a town or two, due to the limit.

The spot where the settler was when I picked up the save may be a good spot to keep a settler to found when we have the limit. This could then be disbanded, once we move a settler to a point that we really wanted to settle. This lets us grab the 512th and finally relocate.

It will costs us lots of settlers though, so we may not be able to do it for some time. Until we have rails getting settlers to the spot we want will be to slow.

The save:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/42522/Gr15_BC0750.SAV

A pix for the ones that do not want to load the save, me too:


http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=144819&stc=1&d=1166899742

I got it. I'll wait a while to see if anyone has any other comments.

Three Roman archers on the hill next to Verulamium. Will hope they attack as it will be rough if they go around or get even more units stacked, before moving. I want to see the numbers stay low by killing some each turn and not head deeper into the core.

No way I will attack then on the hill across the river with just 1 archer. The Dutch have 3 archers and a spear on a hill heading for Augustodurum, but I will send the army out to thin that out some.

IBT:
2 Roman archers attack and die, one spear goes elite (2-0).

950BC:
Army kills 2 Dutch archers (2-0).
[4-0]

IBT:
3 roman archers come up behine the remaining archer. Dutch send an archer against Augustodrum (1-0). Another archer come into view.
[5-0]

925BC:
Found Eboracum and start a worker for now. It will be a long time before we have Map making and can get a harbor there. 1st is yellow and will heal.

IBT:
nothing

900BC:
Research down to 20%.
1st kills 2 Dutch archers, a spear is on the next hill (2-0) [7-0].

IBT:
3 Roman archers die at Verulamium and a spears goes elite (3-0). dutch spear turns around.
[10-0]

875BC:
Start IW at 70% at -8gpt with 249 gold in bank in 12 turns. Just for the record we have the other 30% on lux still. :D

Not switching the tile with Aug now as Entre is at 10 spt, with a pop on a hill. This slows the growth rate a bit as well, but at size 6 that is ok. Once we get the mine up, then we can go back to a 2 food tile to squeeze in a worker or a settler.

Army healing.

IBT:
Nothing

850BC:
Problem with the prebuild. It is way ahead of schedule. We need the palace cost to go soon or switch to get something and maybe start over on a pre.

The best I can figure is that we would need 18 towns to get the palace to cost more than 300 shields. We are 27 turns from finishing the palace now. We will have say 10 turns on IW and 10 for Writing and 10 for Lit. These are just guesses.

So we have to get 18 or 19 towns in the next 20 or so turns to get to 400 shields and make the build last long enough.

We could elect to switch it to HE and start another Pre some place if it looks shakey in say the next 5 or so turns.

I move the army toward the retreating spear, but I am inclined to go towards Rome first as they seem not to have Iron, at least not yet and I would like to prevent Legions from coming our way.

IBT:
Roman archer dies (1-0). Third win by the elite spear so far.
[11-0]
Dutch show a sword, so the army will not head towards rome for now.

825BC:
Agedincum starts a Rax. Richborough starts a settler. Worker at Gergovia chops and finds a BG tile.
Burdigala founded and starts a warrior. I hate to make one with no rax, but I dislike the other choices more. The warrior can sit around as an MP.

Had to switch Eboracum from a worker to a warrior as it was making too many shields and the worker was ready and pop was still 1.

I am thinking of sending the next settler from Alesia to the tundra and get next to the river and have the deer. It will give us many hills to find iron and the distance to expand East is getting longer.

IBT:
nothing

800BC:
Eboracum starts a worker again, but will be size 2 in time.
Entremont pop moves from the hill to a river grass tile as we stay at 10spt. Will probably need a worker skimmed off soon.
I fort the now healed army to see if the sword will attack or move off the hill.

IBT:
Roman archer dies, elite wins again (1-0) [12-0]

775BC:
Army kills a sword, another comes into view (1-0) [13-0].

IBT:
Rome does it again and still no leader. We have a rax there now.

750BC:
I forgot to update here, but I don't think anything happened. Have a settler next to a spear in the East and a settler that has taken only 1 move towards the tundra, so you can grab it, send someplace else.

I wonder how far away the nearest lux is from us? It would be nice to see one come into view soon. I think we now have 11 towns and 2 settlers out, so if the limit does not stop us we could get to the 18 or 19 we need for the palace cost to go up.

I agree that the GLib pre-build is ahead of schedule, given that we've interrupted our drive to Literature for IW. I should probably have made it clearer that I was thinking in terms of Rat's suggestion that we research Alphabet --> Writing --> Literature directly, not in terms of the earlier discussion which assumed that we'd interpolate IW. It's academic now, but I think this was an ideal situation in which to wait a while for IW--we're not under serious pressure, we have an early army to compensate for any other weaknesses, and Gallics may give us an earlier GA than we want.

In any case, the necessary adjustments to keep the palace from completing in Lugdunum are well within the competence of this team. In the last resort, we can just keep the town in disorder at a little under 300 shields. I certainly wouldn't re-start the pre-build elsewhere.

I reread all the post to see what the choice concensus was and saw nothing, but Alpha, IW and then to Lit.

Frankly I think IW is better as we are making way to many archers right now. They are not worth much as they can hardly beat forted archers and not fare well at all agaisnt swords.

The AI will not get to the GLB, unless it pops a leader. I think we have a good shot as getting the 18 towns, so we will be in good shape for the pre if we do.

a quick check told me that it's easy to do something about the prebuild. Employ a scientist in our prebuild city (and use a 2spt tile), the prebuild drops to 26 turns. That enables lux to go down to 20% and we can run 80% science, IW in 5. This way we should be able to get the prebuild timed better.

Don't forget, if we have iron, we get GS and most likely a GA, so that should enable us for faster prebuild and lower time for writing and litarature. I also suggest we get up more towns.

I would say DO NOT switch the prebuild, slow it down but what I mentioned

Guys I only said to look at it in 5 turns or so, I think we have a good shot at getting the 18 towns before then and it will not be an issue. I keep forgetting and then remembering about the GA.

We may have to slow it down because of happiness though, regardless. So the scientist sounds like a good way to do it.

I would switch between building the prebuild faster and higher science so that we reach 300 shields just after we get lit. It sounds like we have sufficient flexibility to do that. We can run the higher science for a little while and see where we are.

Roster:
Greebley
markh
Northern Pike
vmxa - Just Played
M60A3TTS - Up
ThERat - On Deck

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/Big_bad_archer.JPG

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/GR15_550_BC.SAV

Preturn- Moving one scientist at Lugdunum doesn’t help much. Employ 2 and run -1 in the food bin. The granary can sustain us a few turns. The current state of affairs is a tad confused. We’re building settlers and archers, but no spears that are vital for defense. The workers don’t seem to be organized to accomplishing any particular goal, it seems like individual random projects are going on. If we don’t push out the road network in support of new towns, we can’t readily reinforce them.

IBT- Entremont archer>spear. A second Dutch vet sword in site.

(730BC) Turn 1- Archer army kills Dutch reg spear in the woods. (1-0)

IBT- Camu spear>archer. Richborough settler>worker. Burdigala warrior>worker.

(710BC) Turn 2- Cataractonium founded.

IBT- Alesia settler>rax. Entremont spear>settler. Lapurdum founded on east coast.

(690BC) Turn 3- Quiet.

IBT- A couple more worker builds start.

(670BC) Turn 4 Switch Entremont’s scientists to taxmen as IW still due in 1. Veru needs a taxman.

IBT- Trade a spear for a sword at Augustodurum. (2-1) IW in, writing in 10.

(650BC) Turn 5- We have iron next to Cataractonium. Fire scientist in Lugdunum. Palace due in 19. Ratea Coritanorum founded on the south coast. Archer army and archer kill Dutch sword and archer at Augustodurum. (4-1)

IBT- Entremont settler>spear. Forbidden Palace notice. Veru worker>archer. Augustodurum worker>archer.

(630BC) Quiet

IBT- Also quiet.

(610BC) Turn 7 The Romans are trying to flank us to the southwest. Dutch have forted 3 spears and an archer NE of Augustodurum. What a pain to have to move workers off productive tiles to slow a pre-build. Got two Roman horsemen in the hills.

IBT- The two horses try a little mountain climbing. Our vet warrior defends successfully and goes elite. (6-1)

(590BC) Turn 8 Dutch swords now coming in force. Army suffers badly in getting the first sword kill. Down to 6hp and he has to retreat into town. Trade an archer for two Roman ones. (8-2)

IBT- Trade a spear for a sword which wasn’t good considering he attacked a spear cross river forted on a hill city with walls. (9-3)

(570BC) Turn 9 Tolosa founded. Traded an archer for two Roman ones. (11-4)

IBT- The attrition continues. Lose a covering reg warrior protecting a red archer to a Roman archer. Dutch lose two swords at Augustodurum. (13-5)

(550BC) Turn 10 Archer army kills two Dutch swords. (15-5) Elite archer kills Dutch spear and we get Orgetorix. :) Send him to Entremont. Switch a couple scientists to taxmen with writing due in 4. That is as soon as we can get it. And done.

Post turn- The Romans are sending single archers in a stream down the mountains in a southerly direction. Watch out for the occasional horseman foray from the mountains. The Dutch are sending swords in groups of around three or so up the middle. Nothing we can’t handle. The Roman archers did more attrition than I would have liked, but we have the MGL and can figure out whether to go with another archer army or FP. Or possibly connect iron and fill it with a GW army for use once we hit Monarchy. I have the workers on chopping duties where possible to accelerate production.

The iron has not been connected, but 3 workers are nearby if it needs to be. We still may have the prebuild coming in a bit too early, so that needs to be closely monitored.

got it, will connect the iron, we can still opt not to build GS...if we can delay our GA, good for us.

I guess once we hit the limit, we might need a GS army to raze some towns anyway.

having serious connection problems due to earthquake in taiwan...trying to upload what I can

save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/GR15_350_BC.SAV)

Pre-Turn
decide we can always build the FP in a much better spot later on, use MGL to form army
MM extensively as we have taxman iso scientist, work the wrong tiles etc...
wake up settler and swap production in Alesia to next settler...we should always have spare settlers

IT win against a Dutch sword [1-0]

1.530BC
zzz

IT instead of attacking 7 Roman units pass Camudolum, this can get ugly
swap 2 unit with Dutch [2-1]

2.510BC
lose an archer trying to beat one of those units...retreat a horse [2-2]

IT Romans continue to run around, go 1-1 against Dutch yet again..no good here

3. 490BC
slain 5 units with the help of the army [8-3]

IT lose a spear to Dutch sword again [8-4]
writing is in, lit next

4.470BC
iron is connected...start a GS in our capital, after all, what was that IW for and we can't ill afford that lousy kill ratio
lit takes 12 turns at big deficit
slain 3 in exchange of an archer [11-5]

IT lose wounded archer against a wounded horse [11-6]

5.450BC
go on a killing spree and defeat 5 losing 1 [16-7]

IT for a change Dutch lose a sword against a spear [17-7]

6.430BC
what I feared comes true, trying to get up Lindum we get this message
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/gr15430.jpg
time for a GS army to raze some hell
swap a lot of builds to GS..

IT our scouting spear seems to pull back the Dutch...

7.410BC
defeat 1 horse, but there are again many units in the west...

IT pulling out troops animated Romans to attack Camo and they lose 3 units :) [21-7]
we get our first 2 GS

8.390BC
wow, we are lucky, trying to found the city succeeds even without us razing some... :dance:
that's why we need more settlers to use such an opportunity

IT a first small Greek stack appears (3 warriors) from the Dutch direction
lose a scouting archer that ran into a Dutch sword

9.370BC
defeat 2 archers, new settler covered by 2 GS army...I am still trying to avoid using GS until as long as possible
[23-8]

IT lose a spear to archer in a city...Greek and Dutch all head to our eastern shores that are lightly defended

10.350BC
settler is now in place covered by GS army...send another GS there since the enemy heads there

literature is 6 turns away, so is our prebuild..we need to go to big picture once we get that tech
Alesia is kept on settler duty, we need to replace towns and gergovia is a junk city we should replace anyway

situation in the east...settler under GS army, you can select another location
archer army in the north could go out to raze that Dutch town in the north
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/gr15350.jpg

I got it. I don't think we can afford to wait for Monarchy to use our Gallic Swords, so my inclination is to have the GA sooner and make sure we get the GLib.

If there is a strong desire to not use our GS until Monarchy then I can try to go for it, but I think Monarchy is still a goodly ways away and will just mean we stagnate until we get it. If we are not going to wait for Monarchy, then I don't see much difference between now and waiting. Now seems stronger due to the GLib - we could still miss it with so many civs. One might have gotten lit early. Opinions?

Roster:
Greebley - Up
markh - On Deck
Northern Pike
vmxa
M60A3TTS
ThERat - Just Played

completely agree Greebley. I actually just got those 2 GS as soon as possible. Those Civs we know might get monarchy much later. WE can't afford to wait that long. We need to keep on expanding and razing their cities. That requires GS and GS armies.
Also, the whole purpose of going for IW first was to get a better defense up...A GA fuelled build will ensure we get the GLIb.

I also say, we wait with the FP, we might capture a nice enemy capital in a good location or so.

Yes do not wait, the glb is too important and we need some hitters. Those archers are not going to get it done. This is why IW was put ahead of Writing.

In order to bring in the GLIb, it makes sense. We should be clear on what the strategy is beyond razing cities. Who are we going after? The Roman and Greek cities seem nowhere nearby. One Dutch city in the north. Do we focus the GWs on them? Rome is the most tech advanced by a couple advances.

An immediate GA would be fine with me.

I don't think the Romans are that far off considering the frequency of their units...I always felt that Civ far away come in stacks..Rome sends units in a constant stream, but not stacks. Their horses are most annoying, but as long as they have no iron, we are fine.

In fact we should stick our head out beyond those mountains to check their land...

Preturn: Minor changes. Decide we need more workers as we are working unimproved squares.

IBT: An attack on the city by a Roman Horse retreats

330 BC: Too many Dutch swords to settle the new town. Instead I kill off a stack of 1 sword and 2 Archers which joins another GS onto the Armies square (so size 3 army next turn). Retreat another Horse. Cannot kill the 1 hp horse without losing a unit. Moved a speed 2 GS into the town so we can start killing these horses.

IBT: Kill 2 horses on defense.

310 BC: Kill a Horse with a Gallic. Lose a Gallic to an injured Archer. Kill 2 more Swords with our Army. Try to settle but it fails.

290 BC: Kill 2 Archers.

270 BC: Lose an Archer attacking an Archer (does no damage and the enemy promotes). Kill a Horseman and 2 Archers. Kill a stack of 3 Swordsman with our Army. The army loses a number of HP on the last Sword and is down to 3 HP. It is covered by a GS and a Spear. Made an error and have to cover a settler with two Archers (one Archer adjacent).

IBT: Our elite Warrior on a Mountain is attacked by an Archer and goes to 1 HP. It is then attacked by a 1 HP Horse and loses. Several more Horses are also on the mountain now.
Get Lit and switch to the GLib. MM the city for max shields (9 turns counting this IBT).

250 BC: Kill 2 Horse and Retreat 1.

IBT: Coravorum is attacked. Hold off a sword, but lose a Spear to the next sword. Kill a Horse on defense.

230 BC: Kill 2 Swordsmen (almost lose the Archer Army), 3 Warrior, 2 Archers.

210 BC: Lose a Gallic to a Spear.

190 C: Kill the Spear, 2 Swords and an Archer. Lose a Gallic to a Sword.

IBT: Sword is dropped off. A Curragh I built (fortified) is sunk.
Horses near Camulodunum rearrange the tiles and it revolts (gov picks squares with no commerce).

170 BC: Kill off the dropped off Sword.

150: KIll off a stack of 4 Roman Horses, Some Greek Archers and Dutch Swords.

Notes:
See map for where the attacks are coming from.

3 turns to the GLib.

I strongly recommend building some Markets in major cities during the GA assuming we get the tech.

I mostly had to defend while we built up GS. I think we can go on the offensive soon. I would head for the Dutch - take Delft first and then send the Gallic Swords Army after the iron so they send no more swords.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/GR15_BC150.jpg

The Save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/14765/GR15_150_BC.zip)

Sounds like fun now.

Roster:
Greebley - Just Played
markh - UP
Northern Pike - On Deck
vmxa
M60A3TTS
ThERat

I got it. Will play later today.

I'm thinking of loading Civ III onto a more powerful computer which can better handle this beast. Will I need to do anything beyond loading vanilla Civ III, loading Conquests, and then applying the 1.22 Conquests patch? Specifically, will the last vanilla patch be necessary? And will PtW be relevant to the process at all?

Thanks in advance. :)

Nope, you only need vanilla and C3C and 1.22. I just did the same thing last week.

IBT : the Dutch and Romans move some units to the frontlines, but no fights

1) 130BC : GS kills a Dutch archer at Curovernum (1-0)
archer army kills a Dutch swordsman at Curovernum, but is badly hurt (2-0)
GS kills Dutch swordsman at Curovernum (3-0)
GS kills Dutch swordsman at Curovernum (4-0)
GS kills Dutch spear at Augustodurum (5-0)

IBT : William requests an audience, sorry no time
two Roman horses enter our territory

The Greek begin work on The Great Lighthouse

2) 110BC : GS kills a Roman spear at Cataractonium and promotes elite (6-0)
GS kills a Roman horse at Camulodunum (7-0)
archer kills Dutch swordsman at Curovernum (8-0)
archer kills Greek archer at Delft and promotes elite (9-0)
archer kills Roman horse at Camulodunum and promotes elite (10-0)
GS army kills Greek archer at Delft (11-0)
GS army kills Dutch spear in Delft (12-0)

IBT : The Great Library is completed in Lugdunum

3) 90BC : archer kills a Roman horse at Camulodunum (13-0)
GS kills a second horse at Camulodunum (14-0)

GS army kills a spear in Delft and the city is destroyed giving us a slave (15-0)

See Roman borders in the West where Delft was

found Arausio

IBT : one Dutch sword suicides on the defences in Curovernum (16-0)

We get all ancient techs except construction, currency, monarchy and republic

We have horse nera Tolosa

Now that we have TGL in Lugdunum Caesar is more interested in that city and redirects his forces

4) 70BC : archer army kills a Dutch sword at Curovernum (17-0)
eGS kills Roman horse at Lugdunum (18-0)

IBT : the Romans request an audience, not interested

lose a GS on the way North towards Dutch territory (17-1)

5) 50BC : earcher kills Greek warrior at Curovernum (18-1)
eGS kills Roman horse at Lugdunum (19-1)
eGS kills Roman archer at Lugdunum (20-1)
GS kills Roman archer at Lugdunum (21-1)
archer army kills Dutch spear at Curovernum (22-1)

IBT : nothing

6) 30Bc : lose an earcher to a Dutch spear at Curovernum (22-2)
a second archer kills that spear (23-2)
eGS kills Roman archer at Lugdunum (24-2)
GS kills Roman horse at Lugdunum (25-2)

IBT : a Roman archer and a horse suicide on a GS before a Roman spear kills the GS (27-3)
two Dutch swords suicide on our defences (29-3)

7) 10BC : kill a Roman horse at Verulamium (30-3)

IBT : lose a spear and a GS on defence, 1 Dutch sword suicides in that process at Curovernum (31-5)

8) 10AD : earcher kills Roman spear at Camulodunum (32-5)
archer army kills Dutch spear at Curovernum (33-5)
lose the archer army on a Dutch sword, it had 12/14 HP (33-6) :gripe:

IBT : nothing important

9) 30AD : earcher kills Dutch spear at Curovernum (34-6)
earcher kills Roman horse at Lugdunum (35-6)
eGS kills Roman archer at Lugdunum (36-6)
GS kills Greek archer at Curovernum (37-6)
GS army kills a spear in Pisae (38-6)
GS army kills second spear in Pisae (39-6)
GS loses to archer in Pisae (39-7)
GS kills that archer, razes Pisae for 36 gold, 2 slaves and promotes elite (40-7)

found Lindum

IBT : 2 Dutch swords suicide on Curovernum (42-7)

2 Dutch swords are dropped at Ratae Coritanorum

Cuzco completes The Temple of Artemis

10) 50AD : earcher kills Roman horse at Camulodunum (43-7)
eGS kills a Dutch sword at Ratae (44-7)
GS kills the second sword at Ratae (45-7)
GS kills Dutch spear at Lindum (46-7)
eGS kills Dutch sword at Lindum (47-7)
eGS kills Dutch sword at Lindum (48-7)
GS kills Roman spear at Lugdunum (49-7)

There are two Dutch galleys in the south that dropped off units. There is a new one in the North which is loaded.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/47099/GR15_50AD.zip

Nope, you only need vanilla and C3C and 1.22. I just did the same thing last week.

Thanks a lot. :goodjob:

I've got it.

lose the archer army on a Dutch sword, it had 12/14 HP (33-6) :gripe:

You're forgiven, just so long as the dude wasn't in a mountain fortress behind a river. ;)

Yeah now we can get some cats to help on defense.

It sounds as if we razed a Roman city. Would be nice to post some screenies so we know what's happening.
An archer army is only that useful anyway...GS armies with movement 3 and attack 3 will be so much better.
I'd say as soon as we have more armies, some pillaging of the Dutch iron would be nice.

Do we try and found cities every turn even when we don't raze a city? This might work as in my case, if somewhere cities get razed without us knowing that.

And yes, get some cats up and running for better defense. Once we meet new Civs, the initial stacks will be tough to beat without them.

The archer army is very weak, but it would at least get us to 3 armies to get a pentagon. It was always in danger of dying, so not much could be expected.

It'll take a while before we build the pentagon anyway. I guess we have now close to 20 cities (that's 5 armies). We still have HE and FP to build as well. We will need real MGL galore to build all those...

But, as I mentioned, we might want to wait with the FP to find a real nice spot.

By the way, what do you people think about abandoning some of those crammed spots we took once we have nicer parts to claim? (Gergovia has to go in my mind, do only build units + settlers there before we abandon it)

And, any lux sighted yet?

Well if we had the two armies we would only need two more leaders to have the pentagon. One for the third army and one for the pentagon.

I would prefer to have it than any of the other things as a 4th units would really make a big difference. The extra unit will keep them alive and do more damage than the extra army.

I agree we can wait on the FP.

Abandoning is fine as long as we have a settler for the replacement and one for any opportunities and we can defend the new site.

The Roman city looked like an outpost. It was not connected culturally. It is still a long way to go. The same situation we have with the Dutch. They are also still far away. Actually the map looks almost the same as before. Just that there is one of our cities where Delft was and we have a new city in the East.

I tried to found a city each turn, but no luck. Only after razing the Roman and the Dutch city we could found a new city.

The HE should finish in the next 1 or 2 turns.

One thing I remember from the last time I played on this monster map is that the AI is pretty decent at building colonies. This means every civ will have Iron at some point if we don't do something about it. I think we will want to send out GS Armies to pillage this iron or we will have many swords and pikes to deal with.

This is once we have more GS Armies of course. The point is that we need to be aggressive rather than just defensive. I would like to try to cut the Dutch Iron now if we could and send our one army in that direction. Let the normal units handle the flow of incoming units.

250 AD--one settler has movement (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/33960/GR15_250AD.SAV)

Well, my relatives have been attacking in waves like the AI in an AW game, but I’ve held them off long enough to play a round. ;)


50 (0): We repel the attacks of a Roman horseman and a Dutch swordsman (2-0). Two Gallics in dangerous positions survive by retreating.

Richborough skims off a worker, since it's stuck at size six with a full food box.

A Wonder cascade accounts for the Hanging Gardens (France), the GLight (Iroquois), the Mausoleum (Ir.), and the Great Wall (Sumer).


70 (1): We pick off a Dutch spearman (3-0).

Our GA ends.


90 (2): Our Gallic army destroys a Dutch spearman, but takes quite a lot of damage (4-0).

Augustodurum temple --> catapult, Arausio walls --> temple.

The Sumerians complete the SoZ.


110 (3): We cut down a Dutch swordsman landed near Ratae C. and a Roman spearman near Ver. (6-0).


130 (4): On our western flank we crush ten Roman units--five archers, three horsemen, and two spearmen--while losing a Gallic (16-1).

Entremont temple --> Gallic.

Alesia HEROIC EPIC --> catapult.


150 (5): We smite a Hopite with a Gallic, though I hope we won't have to make many such attacks (17-1).

Our Gallic army slays a Dutch swordsman and a Dutch spearman in Den Helder, five tiles approximately north of Lindum, though the town remains garrisoned (19-1).

The Dutch finally start making the attacks we'd like, and lose two swordsmen at Curovernum (21-1).

Lindum walls (rushed) --> barracks.

Our source of iron runs out. We have another almost within our borders near Curovernum, but that's where we're under the most pressure from the Dutch, so it's not an ideal solution.


170 (6): On our western flank we flay two Roman horsemen, but lose a Gallic (23-2).

We auto-raze Den Helder, held by one remaining spearman, and capture four workers and a catapult (24-2). We then found Axima in a fairly useful spot, though it's close to Lindum. Our settler waiting to found in the NE was chased all the way back to Arausio by Dutch stacks, so that isn't an option.

In fighting around Lindum we overrun a Roman horseman and generate the GL Caractacus, who forms an army (25-2).

Our new army strikes down two Hoplites (27-2).

Another three Dutch swordsmen fall at the walls of Curovernum, after I moved the elite spearmen out (30-2). They'll attack veteran spears here across the river, but not elites.


190 (7): We smash four Roman horsemen near Ver., and a Greek archer as well (35-2).

We hack down a Dutch swordsman landed next to Lapurdum (36-2).


210 (8): We dispose of seven Greek archers around Ver. (43-2).

On the Lindum/Axima front we account for a Roman horseman and a Dutch spearman (45-2).

Closing in on the only Dutch city we can see, our advanced army discovers furs.


230 (9): Around Ver. we shoot down a Hoplite and three Greek archers (49-2).

We bombard and destroy a Dutch stack of two swordsmen and three spearmen next to Lindum (54-2).

Our advanced army kills one Dutch spearman in Arnhem, though the town remains garrisoned (55-2).

A Greek archer perishes attacking Axima (56-2).

Agedincum temple --> catapult.


250 (10): Our army routs the remaining two spearmen of Arnhem's garrison, and we raze the city (58-2), gaining a worker and capturing a catapult. We're then able to found Durocortorum in a reasonable spot on our east coast.

We grind down a Roman stack of three archers and a spear next to Tolosa (62-2).

Our homeland defense army crushes three Dutch swordsmen next to Lindum (65-2).

Seventeen elite victories this round generated one Great Leader.

We shouldn't have any trouble founding a colony on the iron north of Curovernum during the next round, since the road is already built. We could have done it already, but I think it's safer to dispose of most of the Dutch units in the area first.

Our builds at the moment reflect the fact that we can't have Gallics without iron hooked up, of course. I've taken the opportunity to build some warriors for MP duty.

The Dutch don't seem interested in attacking Lindum, as long as it's held by an elite spearman fortified behind walls. We have to be more careful about Axima, which hasn't been able to rush walls yet.

The attacks on our western flank have been coming in at Ver. and Tolosa, not farther south.

We have a settler waiting in a safe spot north of Eboracum, which should try to found a new city every turn.

I've left our other settler with its movement, since there are various things we could try with it, depending on how much trouble we're willing to take to get it to an advanced position.

Augustodurum needs a second MP unit.

Don't overlook the Hoplite next to Tolosa.

The screenshot shows the furs, the iron, and the only foreign border (Dutch) we can see.

The northern prospect:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/33960/GR15-250AD.JPG

Looks like you had some fun. I will pick this up tonight when I get home.

Ok I got it. Crappy luck that Iron ran out already.

Pre:
Moved the settler near Ebaracum into Gergovia. I am guessing that this is the one we want to use to try to found a town every turn. If this is so, I do not want to have it found and abandon on roaded grass tiles.

I would rather it try to found on an open tile, IF it has to be abandon in a bit. So I am moving to the tundra or even a hill.

IBT:
Monarchy and Construction comes in, Sword lands at Durocortorum. Too many units moving to keep track of. No attacks.

260AD:
4/4 GS kill Hop (1-0).
4/4 GS kill Hop (2-0).
Fire beakerhead, I meant to do that during Pre and forgot. I see no value in working towards a 50 turn tech, may as well get the cash.
5/5 GS kills hop (3-0).
4/4 GS kill Gr warrior (4-0).
2nd has rough time with Dutch sword and redlines. Move to town to heal (5-0).
4/4 GS kills Dutch spear (6-0).
Fort 1st to heal.
4/4 GS redline on dutch sword and does no damage, move into town.
5/5 GS kills hop (7-0).
4/4 GS kills Gr archer (8-0).
4/5 archer kills Gr archer (9-0).
4/4 GS redlines killing Gr archer (10-0).
4/4 GS kill the dutch sword. Very close as it went redline with no damage and got the job done. That sword had redline two GS before losing a point (11-0).
4/4 GS kills Dutch sword (12-0).
4/4 GS kills Dutch sword (13-0).
Switch Lapurdum to aqua from warrior. We will be getting furs to make it viable to go over size 6.
I did not start an aqua in Gergovia as it cannot feed more than 6 pop right now.

I am stopping for the night and I want to revolt now to Monarchy so what is the vote? I think that since we do not have iron, this is a god time to be in anarchy. With no armies to use for a few turns, we will be busy.

I dislike making horses, but have few options now. It will be a few turns before I can defend a colony. Will switch a couple horses to spears to sit on the colony until we can clear the area.

May move a settler NE of iron and found and not even make a colony.

[13-0]

Based on the last save, our GPT would fall from 25 to 12 in a move to Monarchy. If our production is not going to be increasing to any significant degree I don't see a need to make the move at the moment since the GA is already over and done with.

Well, the timing of our revolution won't be as important a decision as it usually is, since we're religious. I would still mildly prefer to revolt now, since shields matter more than gold when we aren't doing research.

unit cost will be high initially no doubt about that. But what we need is more shields to get more towns up and running. Until the enemy has education, it will still take some turns.
By the way, are we interested in a SunTzu prebuild. This would go miles on a huge landmass like we have.

I would revolt. The ability to gain more shields on hills and food on grasslands is much more important than a drop in GPT IMO. We can irrigate some grasslands to get towns over size 7 which would help the gold situation if we wish (may need construction though).

Now is the time to do it with the GLib still active. Actually, I rarely like to wait unless there will be serious reprecussions to our economy.

Obviously we have a consensus. Think I'll stay with the one lone vote of nay, FWIW. We will lose 12 gold for a net production gain of 4 shields, and isn't worth doing just yet. Yes, with mined hills we are better off with Monarchy, but there are only three mined hills right now, and that is the question, do we flip now? Currently most workers are on the flatlands. If we had a GA coming, it would be a no-brainer.

As far as serious reprecussions go, gpt down from 25 to 12 isn't big, but it's still a loss of net revenue of over 50% strictly speaking. Over 10 turns that's still over 100 gold that buys unit upgrades, later research, etc.

As far as a despotism penalty goes with food, we have grassland that is being mined everwhere, so we are not going to pick up anything in the population growth department until we switch some mines to irrigation.

And although we're religious, we should still flip at the best time, not just because we can whenever we want. The sooner the better isn't always the best course of action. Despotism does have certain advantages over Monarchy in the early going.

I understand what the point about the GLib being active is, but we're not getting education in the next few turns either, so cranking up science isn't happening in the near future.

While the gold is correct, what I am thinking about is that we are not able to build any really good attackers now. Getting in the anarchy while we have no iron is less painfull.

It give us a chance to get iron connected before the current builds are all done and we maybe can switch a few. Later we will have more towns that will go idle. We also will have more enemies later.

We can get the extra food in a few places that need it and we gain the 3rd MP benefit for those places that have more than 2 units.

So all in all it may not matter much either way. At least it will be done, so off I go.

Here is the save:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/42522/Gr15_AD0350.SAV

Company all day, so I hope I did not mess up to bad. I just realize I forgot to go around to see if any pop could use a better tile. Probably not much available though.

Finsih of 260AD:

Revolt and set all towns to not riot.
3 elite wins

IBT:
Rome sends a horse to die and we get an elite GS. (1-0) [14-0]

270AD:
4/4 GS kills Dutch sword (1-0).
5/5 GS kills Dutch sword (2-0).
5/5 GS kills Gr sword (3-0).
5/5 GS kills Rome horse (4-0).
5/5 GS kills hop and gets a leader (5-0).
Create GS-3rd add the elite* and a vet GS so far. 7th elite victory, I was way over due as I have not had many lately.
4/4 GS kills Roman archer and goes elite (6-0).
5/5 GS kills hop (7-0).
4/4 GS retreats on Gr sword doing no damage.
[21-0]

IBT:
no attacks

280AD:
We are now a Monarchy. Reset all citizens.
Entremont start on Pentagon and Alesia starts Palace. We can decide to do something later as to which should be the Sun Tzu.

5/5 GS kills Roman spear (1-0).
5/5 GS kills Roman archer (2-0).
5/5 GS kills Roman horse (3-0).
4/4 GS kills hop (4-0).
4/4 GS kill dutch spear and redlines (5-0).
2nd kills Dutch sword on Iron (6-0).
Too many cities still.
1st kills spear and sword at Rotterdam (8-0).
4/4 GS kills spear at Rotterdam and I have to capture it (9-0).
Will abandon next turn, if we can hold it.
I see a 5/5 archer that killed a Roman horse I did not list (10-0)
[31-0]

IBT:
dutch sword kills GS at rotterdam, but we hold it (0-1) [31-1]

290AD:
2nd kills Dutch sword and moves onto the iron (1-0).
4/4 GS kill Roman horse and goes elite (2-0).
Too many cities, abandon Rotterdam. I wanted to be sure there were no others available first.
Found Segusio, starts a cat for now.
2nd kills the offending dutch sword and covers the two damaged GS units (3-0).
5/5 GS kills roman horse (4-0).
5/5 archer kills Roman horse (5-0).
5/5 GS kills hop (6-0).
5/5 archer kills Gr archer (7-0).
5/5 GS kills Gr archer (8-0).
[39-1]

IBT:
nothing much

300AD:
5/5 GS kills 2/4 hop on hill across river losing no hit points (1-0).
3rd kills 3 Roman horses (4-0).
5/5 GS kills hop (5-0).
4/4 GS kills Gr archer (6-0).
Switch a few builds to settlers to get a few in hand.

[45-1]

IBT:
We have about 13 dutch units next to the iron, so it will hard to get the settler into position. If we are able to found this turn it will have to be right on the iron or wait to found.

310AD:
5/5 GS kills Roman archer (1-0).
Too many cities.
4/4 GS kills Dutch spear (2-0).
1st kills Dutch spear while waiting for the escorts to heal (3-0).
*5/5 GS kills Gr sword (4-0).
4/4 GS kills kop (5-0).
[50-1]

IBT:
I had misclicked a spear and left it in the open near two dutch units, so I had to cover with GS. They were attacked, but both won and the GS is now elite (2-0).
[52-1]

320AD:
5/5 GS kills Gr archer (1-0).
2nd kills dutch sword (2-0).
5/5 archer kills Dutch spear (3-0).
Made colony and switched unit builds to GS.
4/4 GS kills Gr archer (4-0).
5/5 GS kills dutch sword (5-0).
5/5 GS kills roman spear (6-0).
3rd kill Roman archer (7-0).
Too many cities.
[59-1]

IBT:
no attacks

330AD:
5/5 GS kills Roman spear (1-0).
5/5 GS kills Roman horse (2-0).
7 cats manage to get a hop to 2hp and 5/5 GS kills it (3-0).
5/5 GS kills Gr sword (4-0).
3rd kills 2 Roman horses (6-0).
5/5 GS kills Gr sword (7-0).
4/4 GS retreat on Gr sword taking off 2 hp.
4/4 GS kills hop (8-0).
3rd kills Roman horse get a promotion, but took damage (9-0).
[68-1]

IBT:
Dutch send most of their units back as 1st threathens Amsterdam.

340AD:
5/5 archer kills Dutch spear and leader is born. I form 4th rather than rush Pentagon. I would love to have the extra unit, but we need some time to build more anyway and the army will let us send out more or protect new towns. (1-0)
5/5 archer kills Roman horse (2-0).
5/5 archer retreat Roman horse and 5/5 GS finishes it (3-0).
4/5 GS kills Roman spear (4-0).
5/5 GS kills Roman spear landed at Ratae (5-0).
I ran the 3rd down deep to kill hop and Gr sword, but it can enter town next turn to heal

(7-0).
Mr Horse Breaker retreats on Gr sword and I switch Axima to rax. It looks like it does not need walls.
4/4 GS goes elite killing the same sword (8-0).
4/5 GS kills hop (9-0).
2nd kills 2 Dutch swords (11-0).
We have 3 settlers, but no new towns and we are hurting for more unit support and that lux.
I am trying to drive the Dutch back so we can found a town past the iron and then one for the furs. I have one available on a hill ready to go, if a spot
opens.
[79-1]

IBT:
nothing

350AD:
Found Glevum, start worker. This is probably an abandon town, but we were running -15gpt.
5/5 kills dutch spear (1-0).
4th kills Dutch spear and 2 swords and gets a promotion (3-0).
Note it only has 2 units right now.
3 of the 4 armies are yellow or red. The 1st is moved next to Amsterdam so that it does not have to fight across the river.
Dutch galley is probably going to drop off something as it is coming in, not leaving. roman galley is leaving.
[82-1]

My count is 40 elite battles, may not be exact, but is close.
Greeks have a 6 pack near Axima, but not coming to it.

Roster:
Greebley
markh
Northern Pike
vmxa - Just played
M60A3TTS - Up
ThERat - On deck

Got it and have stopped on turn 4 with a 32-1 kill ratio. Picked up two MGLs, but we're stuck at the army limit with the latest. Suggestions? My inclination is to abandon the junk town of Segusio and build a new town in a new location and then rush the FP. The Pentagon is due in 12 and could be rushed as an alternative.

I agree with rushing Pentagon and then FP in a good location. It will help our economy.

Maybe the pentagon prebuild can be used for a library or market?

Maybe that's best move. I don't see a location on the map screaming FP, although the ground at Amsterdam looks nice.

Yeah that is what I was going to do if I had gotten another leader. FP and Pentagon some place.Switch one of the builds to a lib or a market if we have picked up currency.

A 4th unit is very nice here as we will be facing pikes real soon. You could drop the FP any where for now and we will be able to use a leader to move it later.

We wil surely see lots of times where we cannot make an army.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/GR15_450_AD.SAV

Preturn- Things look in great shape, although I’m not crazy about the palace pre-build. Rather have much more GS than a rax everywhere at this point, but the investment is already sizable. Change Axima from rax to cat.

Turn 1 (360AD) Load an elite GS into an army. Kill 2 Dutch swords and 3 Dutch spears with 2 armies (5-0). Cat a Roman horse red and elite GS gets MGL. (6-0) Build another GS army. There are a pair of Greek stacks now working south. Will whack stack 2 next turn. Curovernum needs a taxman.

IBT- Dutch lose a sword attacking vet spear on a hill (7-0)

Turn 2 (370AD) Gallic army loses quite a bit to kill a hardy hoplite. Two single GS win their own battles against one. (10-0). GS army kills 2 spears at Amsterdam but goes red. Simply not enough of a force to take a capital this size. Two GS attack 2 Greek archers. Both promote elite. GS* “Horsebreakers” finishes the last. (15-0) Kill 5 Roman horses and lose an elite archer leader fishing. (20-1)

IBT- Dutch sword amphib landing by Ratae.

Turn 3 (380AD) Kill Ratae sword (21-1) Two armies kill hop and archer on east coast. (23-1) Odd position given the Greeks have been stacked up in the west. Kill Roman spear/archer team next to Verulamium (25-1). Elite GS kills spear that was redlined by cats (26-1)

IBT- Lose a worker to a Greek horse. Forgot they had snuck in there. One dies attacking a fort spear. Dutch lose a sword attacking forted GS on a hill (27-1).

Turn 4 (390AD) Greek horse killed by vet GS (28-1) GS army kills 2 hops (30-1). Kill Greek sword and then another hop delivers another MGL. (32-1). Can’t build another army as we are at the limit. Switch Entremont from Pentagon to Library, Rush Pentagon in Curovernum. Trade a GW for two Greek swords. (34-2).

IBT- Pentagon comes in. Another Dutch sword lands in our rear. Two Roman horses move inside our territory.

Turn 5 (400AD) Kill all 3 trespassers. (37-2)

IBT- Durocortorum becomes Omaha Beach as the Dutch land two galleys of a spear and two swords.

Turn 6 (410AD) Shift GS army to Arausio in response to the landing. Do away with 2 Roman spears. (39-2) Lose two elite GS to a redlined hop in the woods. :mad: Kill him with a vet. (40-4)

IBT- Dutch kill a spear and sword defending at Durocortorum. (40-6) Axima riots.

Turn 7 (420AD) Kill 2 spears and a sword at Amsterdam. Do the same to the Durocortorum Dutch troops. (46-6) Do away with a couple more Roman horses (48-6)

IBT- Lose another spear to a Greek sword. (48-7) Learn currency.

Turn 8 (430AD) Three spears killed at Amsterdam. (51-7) Kill 2 Greek swords by Tolusa and get another MGL. Lose a GS and kill 2 hoplites, 2 swords and an archer. (56-8) Add Roman spear and archer to the mix. (58-8) And a Dutch spear. (59-8).

IBT- Pick up Republic and Mono. Another Dutch sword dropped at Duro.

Turn 9 (440AD) Finally the payoff. Two spears are defeated by GS army and Amsterdam is razed. :D Get 6 Dutch workers. Kill a Greek and Dutch sword in the east and a Roman horse in the west. (64-8) Glanum founded next to furs. Kill the Dutch sword at Duro. (65-8) Send Orgetorix to Tolosa. We’re one town shy of another army.

IBT- Mayan galley appears off the coast of Segusio.

Turn 10 (450AD) Kill a Dutch spears and two swords in the east with 2 armies. (68-8) Trade GS for 2 Roman horses and two hoplites. (72-9). Talk to Maya, they have 13 cities, up no techs on us. Declare war. Healing two GS armies by Amsterdam’s ruins. And done.

Post-turn: The preceding was dedicated to Stonewall Jackson’s Valley Campaign, only this time Washington was burned to the ground, so to speak. ;) With the GS armies able to move at high speed along the roads along the east coast, we can hit the Dutch easily enough.

I started a couple markets but am keeping the GS production up. Again, we need just one more Dutch town razed if we want another army. The Greeks do have a pair of hops and swords just off our iron colony, and they are on a road, so they could double back towards Glanum and get the workers with the furs we are trying to road, or attack the iron colony. The Greeks and Romans continue their piecemeal attacks and are no threat. Just a slightly higher attrition level without armies there. But concentrating in the east I think is the way to go as we can expand faster by tearing down Dutch cities with the armies.

Oh, next up please change the Glanum build. We don't need a reg spear there.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/GR15_450AD.JPG

Looks like we may have a problem with the Pre. It is only 7 turns out and we have no idea if we will be getting Feudalism in time. The only way to slow it down is to irrigate the grass so we make another specialist or two to get fewer shields.

I did not count the number of towns, but we have 5 armies right? So that means more than 20 towns. I guess then that we have gotten the first bump for the palace shield count. I think the OCN is 28, the 500 shield level is 23 or 24 towns and I think we have 23. So if the palace is costing 400, we will get a bump to 500 with 1 more town, I hope.

If the palace is already 500, then we need to get to 28 towns to have it cost 600 shields. 5 more towns in 6 turns, is probably not going to happen.

I will check out what to do with the prebuild, in the worst case go for alternate unrest moves to slow it down...

got it, since we have a public holiday here today (hari raya haji), I can nicely play this...

save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/GR15_550_AD.SAV)

Pre-Turn
some intel first for everyone and lurkers:
we have 23 cities
Dutch 10, Rome 14, Greece 15 and Maya presumably 14

hmm, we have only 2 settlers...unit support a staggering 99gpt
btw way down south, there is another iron source, a little inaccessible though

slow our prebuild by working more flat land, it's down to 8
Gergovia is building a market, now that town is really just a filler at the moment to be abandoned, no use to build any infrastructure

anything there but troops and settlers, swap to settler and rename city
we have Abandonia I and II (another junk city in the south)

after a lot of MM, our deficit is down to -8gpt for the moment

smite 2 wounded Roman horses in the west [2-0]

IT well, the Greek decided to go for the furs and kill 2 spears there :( [2-2]

1.460AD
move one army towards Groningen in the fog and it reveals the Dutch iron, lovely
move out another settler to be able to settle every turn

situation at Glanum a bit tricky, use army to cover all those cats and smite those Greek units there [7-2]

we got our first lux finally, reduce lux to 20% and we make 14gpt

IT Roman incursions getting a bit heavier, think we need an army there
we kill a horse there [8-2]

2.470AD
defeat 2 spears in Groningen and the city is razed, Dutch have no more iron :dance:
found Iron Hills to connect towns

form 6th army and the good news is that our prebuild has gone up to 15 turns

kill 8 more units at various spots [16-2]

while tinkering around, my computer shuts down? too hot?

IT Dutch want to talk, stripped off any resource, it's understandable...too bad we got no mercy
we get a market in our capital and it helps a little with our finance..though 2 new settlers drag the income down to 18gpt

3. 480AD
Glanum remains a hot spot as we kill 5 Dutch units there
defeat 2 Roman units in the west [23-2]

IT Roman horse attack a spear on a hill and the second takes it out [24-3]

4.490AD
northern army reaches Utrecht...
defeat 5 assorted units, a MGL is long overdue here

army in the west spots the first image of a Roman border [29-3]

IT plenty of Roman horses coming from the western moutains..very annoying and one manages to kill a GS covering some workers (don't worry there are 2 GS for cover, we didn't lose the workers) [29-4]

5.500AD
defeat 3 spears in Utrecht, but since there were units running through, still some more left
1st army reaches Maastricht

attack many of those Roman units and go 6-1 during those attacks losing a GS [38-5]

western army reaches the outskirts of Antium where horses are gazing

IT Roman horses on steroids take out another GS while losing one themselves [39-6]
lucky we add 3 GS from the production pipeline, though unit cost kills us currently

6.510AD
the Romans have Feudalism, time to speed up that prebuild again
add another MP and we make 19spt reducing the prebuild to 7 turns

defeat 3 units and raze Maastricht, found Fisher Town in the east
defeat 2 units and raze Utrecht, found Forest Gump

a 2nd army moves west from Masstricht, runs into Dutch workers and into Pompeii, that has gems
start to attack Antium taking out 2 units

slash another 7 units and we finally get another MGl just in time for maybe another army next turn?
[53-6]

current income 31gpt

IT enemy units running around, but no attacks, Dutch galley turns round and heads back???
Verulamium with those pretty gold hills adds a market to boost the income
Abandonia I adds another settler
Romans start Sun Tzu, not surprisingly (I wouldn't mind them getting it)

7.520AD
defeat 3 units and raze Antium getting 16 gold, since Romans do have some cash, :sad: they still have horses though
found Isca on hills in the west...now we need more settlers fast
capture Pompeii for 17gold, need to keep it though, lucky it comes with a rax (defeated 3 units there)

our palace prebuild jumped up to 12 turns, increase production to 20spt

a 7th army is minted in Verulamium

defeat another 7 units clearing the area of Verulamium [66-6]

IT I don't know what the Greek :smoke: but their hoplite that could have occupied our gems turned round
no attacks as the enemy is bleeding already (let's hope the Greek will muster feudalism shortly though)

8.530AD
a very quiet turn as armies heal and little enemy activity is noted, kill a mere 2 units [68-6]
one army moves to TheHague and captures 2 slaves on the way

IT a sword dies attacking Pompeii (it has 2 GS armies inside and has zero flip risk)
lots of units are going for this town, all Greek and Romans units, this will keep our hinterland easy to defend and should help expand, let them burn their units...
Dutch seem to make one last effort as many units approach Fisher Town in the east [69-6]

9.540AD
get another settler ready for next turn to connect our land with those gems
take out 4 units at Fisher town after nice bombardment
approach Veji and pull another army towards The Hague, do not attack yet though [73-6]

IT no attacks but now there are many units at Pompeii, let's hope the AI wastes their units, with 2 armies and a rax, this shouldn't be an issue
2 more markets are done to improve the financial situation
Romans start Sun Tzu again

10.550AD
attack The Hague, defeat 3 spears and the army is heavily wounded, use the other army to cover, but do not attack since the wounded army would be left exposed
attack Veiji, defeat 3 units and raze it for 33 gold, found Mongutiatum and gems are connected to our core :dance:

send out an army to the southwest to take care of whatever is left there of the Roman empire

at Pompeii use 1/2 armies to take out 3 swords, the other army needs to stay unmoved for complete health recovery
use GS to take out another 2 swords
for a change lose a e-GS attacking a redlined Dutch sword while slashing 3 units at Fisher Town [88-7]

great news as Greek have feudalism as well. We got 6 more turns for our prebuild which has the same amount of shields as Sun Tzu
I hope we can get it, this would be a major milestone for this game really, kudos to vmxa starting the prebuild.

final intel first for everyone and lurkers:
we have 29 cities and 7 GS armies,
Dutch 7, Rome 11, Greece 15 and Maya 14

we do not have built the FP, Verulamium would be my choice. It has wonderful commerce due to the 2 golden hills (keep on working them)

we do have 2 luxes onlines now, we hopefully get SunTzu

unit support currently 91 gpt :eek: we make 64gpt at 20% lux, 0% science with 1199gold in the kitty

the situation in the west
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/gr15550a.jpg

and the north
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/gr15550b.jpg

Looking good now with 2 luxs. Sun Tzu will save us a lot of shields and grief, not to mention support for barracks.

As long as no one gets a leader to rush it, we should be golden. Even a GA will not be enough for any of the civs to build it by hand in the next 6 turns.

I wonder how far we are from meeting another civ?

I wonder how far we are from meeting another civ?Do not wish for that too soon. At least Dutch and soon Romans will be gassed, but Mayans did not yet show up with their stacks that are sure to come. I was able to expand, but big stacks can slow us down a lot...

Not wishing for it, but rather dreading it. We have a lot of land open now and the coast is getting longer and longer.

We are very short of settlers and workers and units to defend them. We are going to have to start making more settlers to send out to be in a position to found towns.

These towns will have to be spaced farther apart to allow us to cover more tiles to reduce the amount of towns needed to fill the land. They will all need temples to expand culture borders.

This will mean ever more tiles to road, needing ever more slaves and workers. Steam is so far off into the future with the AI researching being so slow from now on.

I was just looking at all the open space we can already see and then seeing how little of the map has been exposed, it is staggering how much land is out there.

Sounds like we are doing quite well.

Given unit support is so high and it sounds we are pretty strong, I may work on Infrastructure rather than more units. Get up Markets and Aquaducts where it makes sense. I will see.

I got it.

Roster:
Greebley - Up
markh - On Deck
Northern Pike
vmxa
M60A3TTS
ThERat - Just Played

I started a lot of infra already, a lot of markets are built or already completed. We can still finish libraries, but I would wait with that until we are closer to education.

I started a lot of settlers also, in fact few units. But, for example, our capital has nothing left to build for now and is doing 20spt 2 turn GS and next turn maces (since we get feudalism). We should get a few pikes up for better defense.
More cities are essential for us.

These towns will have to be spaced farther apart to allow us to cover more tiles to reduce the amount of towns needed to fill the land. They will all need temples to expand culture borders.

This will mean ever more tiles to road, needing ever more slaves and workers. Steam is so far off into the future with the AI researching being so slow from now on.

I was just looking at all the open space we can already see and then seeing how little of the map has been exposed, it is staggering how much land is out there.
I am a little puzzled by these comments. This game will have plenty of open space and we won't fill it. But we don't need to as the city limit is reached. the good part about this game is that we do not get visited by settler pairs to make more enemies. What I fear is that once PP spreads, we will end up with lots of new contacts.

Btw, is initial map trading allowed later on? Or some tech trades?

We have to immediately declare. No trading. As long as we have our fast moving armies, there should be no concerns. As far as new contacts go, a target rich environment hasn't stopped us before. ;)

What I am saying is we should think about spacing at least CxxxxxC soon. This is to reduce the amount of roads that the AI will be able to use against us.

We will see more and more roads in neutral land and they can be used by anyone.
Having as much land under our borders as we can get will make travel easier for us and harder for them.

True we will not ever be able to gain all the tiles, but once the AI is making rails, we will not be needing the tiles as we can use the rails in neutral land for travel.

(cross-posted since my I got it)

Preturn: Looks like ThERat agrees with building Infra. We are building a goodly amount so things look good to me. Only one minor change.
There is a stack in our lands that will probably pillage it and can attack some GS at even odds. Use the army to kill the Spear on top and then the Army and various GS kill the rest of the units without loss.
I think I want to cross the mountains (have a town on the other side) if I can. Looks like we will want more settlers too.
Culturally we are clobbering Rome and the Dutch and have no fear of keeping any of their cities. Only the Mayans have more than us and only by a smallish amount.

IBT: Greek Hop Pillages a mountain road. We get Feudalism.

560 AD: Attack The Hague but then decide to heal after the first battle.
Kill a few units near our towns. Start Sun Tzu.

570 AD: Capture Ravenna(Roman) and The Hague(Dutch).
Kill other units near our towns.

IBT: Mayan units near us as well as several Greek Swords.

580 AD: Leave Ravenna unguarded - may have to recapture, but I am not ready to settle/replace it yet. However, I think no Horse are close enough. After some thought I also rush a Pike to keep the town.
Attack Rome and kill some Spear.

IBT: Actually it looks like the Mayan initial rush as there are lots of Javs incoming.

590 AD: Capture Brundisium. Decide to keep the Roman towns and abandon Abondonia II for our next city (may still abandon later though.
Build Lezoux.
Pompeii is being rushed by Rome, Greece and the Mayan initial rush. We are batoning down the hatches and getting ready. Kill a few of the first units. We have 2 armies in the area so I am hopeful. Rush the walls (I see they haven't been built yet).
Also Capture Rome.

IBT: Messed up and 3 Cats are captured. Lose a GS on hills to a Horse. Lots of movement toward Rome.
Noone builds Sun Tzu so we have it next turn.

600 AD: Abandon Rome and Abandonia I to build two more new cities - One is built on the second Iron to secure it for us ( the old Dutch Iron).
Road is being built to Brundisium to connect up the Wines near that city to the rest of our cities (and is why I want to keep that city).
Kill the Dutch units attacking The Hague.

IBT: With the two armies and the new walls, it looks like Pompeii is being bypassed.
Mayans mill about like cats trying to catch their tails. Why remains a mystery as always.
This is worth a picture :D

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/GR15_AD600.jpg

610 AD: Capture Eindhoven and attack Syracuse.
Kill most of the Greek Swords.

IBT: There certainly are a lot of Mayans and each one dumber than dirt. I think they finally may be heading in a uniform direction. Nope spoke too soon.
A Galley I built is sunk by the Dutch.

620 AD: Capture Syracuse.

630 AD: Some more attacks on Cities.

IBT: Lose a GS on a mountain.

640 AD: Raze Lutetia (Roman) to build Nemausus. Capture and Abandon CaesarAugusta to build Glevum. Capture Haarlem(Dutch)

IBT: Looks like the Mayans are finally getting their act together and coming at us. Next player will get to deal with them. It definitely seems the initial rush of units.

650 AD: We connect the Wines (3rd Lux) and can lower Lux rate to 10%.

Notes:
Our boat met a Mayan boat in the south. It had a settler that stepped off in case we lose. The idea was to have a settler in a safe location that could settle every turn or replace a city if we are going to lose one and want to abandon it (and this one was near the boat when it got built). The current location is not horrible if the boat is sunk. Otherwise we can keep looking though I think I would just keep it where it is with all the Mayans threatening us (just in case).

I have been building boats. The idea is to kill off the Dutch invaders before they land. They have a lot of 1 hp boats.

Roman Lands:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/GR15_AD650a.jpg

Dutch & Greek Front (see notes on image):
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/GR15_AD650b.jpg

Our landed Settler:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/GR15_AD650c.jpg

The Save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/14765/GR15_650_AD.zip)

On the cross-posts:

M60A3TTS is correct - No initial trades allowed. A strong reason to get Espionage is to see where all the AI towns are.

I am not sure we should worry about spacing but rather place towns where we want them. I think we will be building outposts to see enemy landings and cutting roads (road "choke points") with units on the remaining roats to control access to our lands rather than making the standard wall of cities.

Remember distance corruption is nearly meaningless. We don't need a compact empire - rank corruption will be everything (at least until we start settling on other continents or far north).

Next up needs to declare on Catherine immediately.

wow, this looks amazingly good. Income shot up to 176gpt...not too bad...and free raxes everywhere...sweet, very sweet.

Glad you managed to abandon those 2 useless cities in our core. I should have suggested the following, but didn't. The enemies we know are half dead (besides Mayans maybe). We might not get chivalry soon, we should employ a single scientist just in case and could have even started a prebuild for KT if we feel like?

As for wonders, I am just thinking, Adam Smith would be another huge wonder to save us plenty of money. There is a wonder that comes with music (I think) that would give an extra happy for the whole continent and that wonder doesn't go obsolete. But of course both techs (music and economics) are optional techs and could slow us down. I think Adam Smitch is surely worth it and Alesia seems to be able to produce a goodly amount of shields.

Just looked at the save and Romans have plenty of money with a mere 5 cities. These 5 cities could give us additional 1000+ gold, surely worth taking them out soonish.

I wouldn't take the time for research of Music Theory to bring in Bach's. We should have enough lux on this continent to keep the populace happy. Smith's is an interesting idea, worth considering.

How much culture is required on this map for Culture Victory ?

I don't tink we want to go for culture, and if I am not wrong, we actually have to make sure that there is no run-away AI in culture. We aren't building culture massively to be able to compete here...

I don't tink we want to go for culture, and if I am not wrong, we actually have to make sure that there is no run-away AI in culture. We aren't building culture massively to be able to compete here...
Oh, ok. I thought you guys were actually building temples everywhere. :crazyeye: You might wanna watch out for the civ that built the Temple of Artemis. Hopefully they aren't expanding like crazy...

I doubt that culture will be a huge issue as long as no one runs over several civs. In a map this isze, I would think the AI will be hard pressed to do that as fast as will.

We will soon be so large that even with the temple/libs for borders we will have lots of culture.

The only way anyone gets a new town is to take one from someone. The problem for the AI will be that they will raze some and not built a replacement asap.

A few civs could be a culture threat if they get large like Cleo or Hammy.

We will probably have the most towns and temples are cheap. I think we can keep up in culture and should. That allows the flexibility to keep cities until we are ready to settle (or for keeps).

I think we will do well culturally if we don't sell any temples (with libs in the core). Since this will also keep the AI from a culture win, it is worth the cash.

Mostly though I like keeping cities - I think it is a stronger strategy to get cities with the Aquaduct prebuilt. Since keeping up in culture is easy when religious, I think we should do so.

I got it. I will try to get it done still today.

0) 650AD : declare war on Russia

IBT : the Russian galley sinks ours
hoplites pillage around Haarlem

1) 660AD : raze Byzantium for 149 gold and two slaves
settle Deva at the indicated spot in the SW

uh, there are 18 Javs, 4 spears, 2 warriors and a sword West of Pompeii

IBT : the bigger Mayan stack heads towards Monguntiacum, change the temple to walls there
the reduced stack heads towards Glevum

a 1 HP Dutch galley still manages to kill one of our galleys

2) 670AD : kill some Dutch units and reduce one of the Mayan stacks a bit. We are too short on attackers here.
Just the two armies won't do it.

our defences at Glevum and Pompeii hardly hold

the main Mayan stack arrives at Monguntiacum

3) 680AD : abandon Haarlem and raze Holwerd to found two new towns

reinforcements arrive at Monguntiacum

IBT : The Mayas decide not to attack Monguntiacum after we reinforced it, but a 2HP Jav kills our remaining 2 HP GS at Glevum and burns the city

4) 690AD : kill some of the Mayan units
another army arrives ar Pompeii to help out.

IBT : play a bit with the Mayans, moved an army out of Monguntiacum and the Mayans start to come back
I lose Second Iron due to a very unclever move :wallbash:

5) 700AD : take Hispalis for 363 gold

IBT : the Mayans are now more interested in Hispalis and retreat all their forces

6) 710AD : abandon Hispalis and the usual killing of units

IBT : the Mayans are coming back to Monguntiacum

7) 720AD : we get rid of a good number of Mayan troops

IBT : nothing

8) 730AD : more Mayans fall

IBT : nothing

9) 740AD : raze Breda and found a new town

IBT : the healed Mayan units advance on Monguntiacum, but that are just 3 units

10) 750AD : we take Neapolis for 439 gold and a few slaves

Most of the action happened at Pompeii and Monguntiacum. There are just a few javs left, so I sent one army towards Cumae. It already killed two spears in Cumae and the reg should be the last one.

Maybe we should consider to research chivalry ourselves. Knights would be very nice as I had quite a lot casualties killing all those Mayan units.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/47099/GR15_750_AD.zip

It will take forever to research anything right now and require a lot of income to do it.

I am just wondering what is the purpose of ships for us?

Maybe we should consider to research chivalry ourselves. Knights would be very nice as I had quite a lot casualties killing all those Mayan units.as I stated before, we should have employed a single scientist for that purpose...I guess we will meet other Civs soon and they might have that technology anyway.

Rome still has a lot of money though they have a mere 2 cities. By the way, we took 4 cities from the enemy but only gained 2. This kind of losses might be gained by other continents and can cost us dearly. We should always have enough spare settlers to replaced even cities that the AI raze in the IT. This is not good to lose cities that way.

I rather we let the AI take a city, that we can't hold and take it back later...don't found cities that are in danger of being razed.

I agree - losing cities without replacement is extremely costly in this game. Armies make good defenders if you keep the HP high and let them rest. Also don't be afraid to rush walls and Pikes when needed. I think I would have rushed a Pike in Glevum on turn 1 or 2 if there was that much threat to the city for example.

And as ThERat states, we should have a settler to replace abandonments. I notice we abandoned but didn'r replace which hurts us more than usual in this game. We also never want to raze a town if we cannot replace it as well. I would have saved the town way to the south for that abandonment you listed.

I could tell though that it was going to be a tough set of turns to play with such a large initial rush.

going with a single scientist is not going to hurt us, but trying to research in earnest will. The price of techs is very high on a map like this and we are without Libs in most places.

I've got it.

I wasn't able to get started right away, but I've played five turns now. We've taken Middelburg and Cumae, generated a Leader/army, and handled the Mayan stacks with no difficulty. We've been able to found one city without razing something else, as a result of the routine check.

I'll post in time for Vmxa to play on Sunday whether I've completed ten turns or not.

Sounds good, since Sunday is my only day off in this 11 day run.

850 AD, end of turn (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/33960/GR15_850_AD.SAV)

750 (0): The Mayan units near Monguntiacum all retreat.

Eindhoven temple --> pikeman, Lezoux walls (rushed) --> pikeman.


760 (1): We take Cumae from its remaining garrison of two spearmen, seizing 567 gold and two slaves (2-0).

We overrun a Mayan spearman next to Cumae and a Roman horseman around Pompeii (4-0).

Also outside cities we destroy two Roman archers, two Roman horsemen, a Mayan warrior, and a Dutch archer (10-0).

Agedincum library --> cathedral.


770 (2): We take Middelburg, held by two spearmen, an archer, and a horseman (14-0). We capture a catapult.

Outside cities we slay a Hoplite, a Greek MDI, a Greek swordsman, two Dutch archers, a Mayan swordsman, three JT, and two Roman archers (25-0).

A JT and a Mayan warrior perish attacking our army in Cumae (27-0).

Alesia cathedral --> MDI, Forest Gump aqueduct --> pikeman, Verulamium FORBIDDEN PALACE --> pikeman.


780 (3): With the Maya massing around Cumae, we smite four JT and a Mayan spearman there (32-0).

Outside Pompeii we hack down two Roman spearmen (34-0), generating a Great Leader and so another army. I fill it with Gallics, not MDI, since the extra movement point is more important than a point of attack strength.

Two JT and a Mayan warrior die attacking Cumae (37-0).

Three Greek MDI and a Dutch archer fall at the walls of Middelburg, though we come close to losing an army (41-0).

Fisher Town temple --> aqueduct, Middelburg walls (rushed) --> pikeman, Burdigala library --> MDI.


790 (4): Outside Neapolis we crush two JT (43-0). The big Mayan stacks are no threat now, but they are keeping us from pushing our armies forward.

Around Cumae we strike down three JT and a Mayan swordsman (47-0).

Near Nemausus we dispose of a wandering Dutch spearman (48-0).

A Greek MDI and a Mayan swordsman perish attacking our cities (50-0).

Glanum aqueduct --> pikeman, Durocortorum harbour --> temple.

Cumae, Neapolis, and Eindhoven all rush walls.


800 (5): Outside Neapolis we eliminate two Mayan spearmen and a JT (53-0).

Around Cumae we overwhelm four JT, a Mayan spearman, and a Mayan swordsman (59-0).

Near Middelburg we expunge a Dutch spearman (60-0).

Far Mount, Iron Hills, Ravenna, and New Entremont complete temples.

Tolosa library --> horseman. We're sitting on enough gold that we should accumulate some horsemen for upgrading when we get Chivalry.


810 (6): We spot the first Russian units to appear this round--a stack of four horsemen.

I make the routine attempt to found a city, and this time it works, so we establish Welsh Rabbit in a good spot on the southwest grasslands.

We wipe out a stack of four JT and two Mayan spearmen south of Cumae (66-0).

Also on the Cumae front, we liquidate five JT and a Mayan horseman (72-0).

Around Neapolis we account for two JT, a Mayan SP, and a Roman SP (76-0).

We shatter a wandering Mayan spearman near Monguntiacum (77-0).

Four Greek MDI, a Roman archer, and a Roman warrior make futile attacks on our cities (83-0).

Richborough library --> pikeman, Rutupiae walls (rushed) --> temple.


820 (7): We raze Leiden, held by two spearmen, and eliminate the “Fledgling Dutch” (85-0). We gain three slaves.

We found Irish Pennant in the southwest grasslands.

Having abandoned the tundra city of Deva by building a settler there, we’re also able to found Cornish Hen in the SW grasslands.

Otherwise a quiet turn, with few targets in range.

Agedincum cathedral --> pikeman, Lapurdum library --> MDI.


830 (8): We crush two Roman spearmen at Viroconium, but the town remains garrisoned (87-0).

Around Neapolis we liquidate three JT, two Mayan spearmen, and a Russian horseman (93-0).

Pompeii temple --> aqueduct, Ratae C. aqueduct --> marketplace, Curovernum courthouse --> MDI, Axima aqueduct --> temple.

The Greeks are building Knights Templar. So on the assumption that we may soon get Chivalry from the GLib, I start a KT pre-build in Alesia.


840 (9): We take Viroconium from its surviving garrison of two spearman, eliminating the “Fledgling Romans” and capturing 2434 gold (95-0).

Outside Viroconium we extirpate a JT and a Mayan spearman (97-0).

Away from cities we deal with three Russian horsemen, two Greek MDI, two JT, a Mayan MDI, and a Hoplite (106-0).

The Great Library brings us Engineering and Chivalry.

Entremont cathedral --> knight.

Neapolis and Cumae complete rushed temples.

The French, whom we haven’t met, complete Knights Templar. So much for our one-turn-old pre-build. :lol:


850 (10): We follow the road the Maya are using to advance on our cities, and locate their cultural borders.

Outside cities we obliterate two JT, a Mayan swordsman, a Mayan MDI, two Greek MDI, and three Russian horsemen (115-0).

Twelve elite victories this round produced one Great Leader.

We seem to have located the Greek homeland, in the northwest of the known world, and most of our armies are in the area; so our next objective is plain enough. With the Mayan initial rush contained and the Russian rush still to come, we’re not under much pressure.

The army next to Troy isn’t intended to attack before it’s reinforced by the two armies healing in Viroconium.

Middelburg has been worth holding so far, because the Greeks have lost a lot of units attacking it, and because it lets us see what the AI is doing in a central area which would otherwise be out of sight. But abandoning it to free up an army, and to found another good city in the southwest grasslands, would be acceptable too.

We have three settlers pre-positioned in good locations in the SW. The settler struggling north from the tundra (where we settler-abandoned Deva) should take up a position directly S of the single mountain three tiles SE of Welsh Rabbit.

We’re about to complete a mountain road linking Pompeii to Cumae, which will make it a lot easier to move catapults where we want them.

I’ve left some catapults with their movement to call attention to our cat stacks.

The push north:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/33960/GR15-820AD.JPG

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/33960/GR15-840AD.JPG

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/33960/GR15-850_AD.JPG

Looks like we are doing fine, BTW what are the Cath about? I got it.

excellent work...

we got a lot of cash, which I wouldn't just splurge...keep it to rush settlers (if needed) and our research which has to start one day again...I would start with libraries once we are close to education

Excellent progress NP. Two civs down already.

If our progress is good enough we might be able to keep the Greeks from getting to education. If we additionally can hurt the Mayans and Russia, It might be possible to have the GLib expire when we meet the other civs when they have Navigation and find us.

This would be really nice if it could be made to happen. We definitely want to avoid knowing one civ that has education and not much else and then meeting advanced civs.

We don't entirely have control over this, but the fact that civs can't build more cities helps. It is definitely worth keeping in mind. We could push for elimination of any civ that looks close to gaining Edu.

This all assumes that we have met all the civs on our continent and there is ocean all around it. I would like to send a boat around our continent if we could to see if this is true. If we see a border we haven't met then we can retreat again if we don't want to meet a new civ.

Roster:
Greebley
markh
Northern Pike - Just Played
vmxa - Up
M60A3TTS - On Deck
ThERat

BTW what are the Cath about?

Since we're religious, a cathedral gives us three content faces for 80 shields and 2 gpt maintenance. To get the same effect with pikemen costs 90 shields and 3 gpt maintenance, given that we're grossly over the unit limit and probably will be until communism.

I like Greebley's idea of sending a ship around our continent, at least until it spots a new civ. I've left a galley in a fairly advanced position on the northeast coast.

I guess what I am thinking is the 2 gpt is spend for nothing as the size 12 places are running without cath. right now if we need a specialist it is fine as we are doing nothing. Later we will hopefully have another lux and not need the specialist.

80 shields is a knight plus and 2 gpt pays for 2 it.

Yes a bit of a peek can't hurt as long as we do not met one advanced civ and get the worst of all out comes. That is a one of the civs we gets ed and boom the adv one lets us learn it and the GLB goes away.

agree to take out Greece as soon as possible to eliminate the edu risk. I would also be gald if we can get rid of Russia before they acquire cossacks. Maya's are fine as they create slaves for us and their UU is useless already.

I agree with cathedrals as I think in this game we got a lot of space and might want to use hospitals (we need the healing effect overseas anyway I guess).

Also, we should locate other continents as soon as possible to send armies over to raze cities for our own good. Hurting others overseas will be the best method to slow them down.

Well as to overseas, that is very far in the future as you cannot send anything with a galley and no Navigation or Astro or Mag. I agree that is what has to be done soon to hurt them and slow things down, but not before we get some of the required techs.

Ok,, here is the save:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/42522/GR15_AD0950.SAV

Not much progress I am afraid, got a good start, but fell abck after that.

Note these are in DAR form, rather than AAR.

Pre:
I found all the settlers and I am not sure where the two in Gergovia should go. They could go up the coast or to the interior.

I am also not sure what the gallies are up to or even why we have them. It looks like they were going some place, but not sure if that is the case or they just were moved to a picket station.

Builds all look good to me, but I did swap a citizien in Middleburg to a taxman, no need for it to grow right now and may as well ensure they are as ahappy as they can be with their new rulers.

The stack of cats by Eindhoven I am also not sure where to send it or to leave it. Will read the log again to see if action was in that area. It does not have enough escorts to send into foreign lands. it is too slow to travel with any armies with so much open land to cover.

IBT:
Takes about 4 minutes till I get the control back. No action, just some units moving around and vacating Middleburg.

860AD:
Too mnay cities.
I irrigate a mined grass at Cataractonium to get more food as it is size 7 and would stop at size 8. It already has a market, so may as well get more pop there.

5/5 MDI kills Russian horse at Viroccnium (1-0), goes redline.
5/5 MDI kills another Russian hore there (2-0).
4/4 MDI retreat horse,
4/4 MDI kills the retreating Russina horse (3-0).
1st (yellow already) kills last russian horse around Viroccnium (4-0).
1st kills hop there as well and covers MDI (5-0).
2nd kills hop (6-0).
6th kills hop at troy and 8th kills the MDI and captures 2 slaves (8-0).
I do this on the presumption that they would have went into the city and been harder to kill.
Gergovia need taxman until the MP can get to it.

IBT:
Units stream down near Troy towards Viroccnium and others above Middleburg to Viro.
No attacks.
[8-0]

870AD:
1st kills hop and MDI at Viroccnium (2-0).
5th kills 2 hops in Troy and 6th kills one and razes Troy (3-0).
Sorry I did not note the gold, if any, did get 4 slaves.
Found New Aleisa and start a temple.
Too many cities.
MDI kills Russian spear by Lezoux (4-0).
I am trying to list where the battles are to give a feel for where the action or lack of it is occuring for the next player.
5th kills Greek MDI heading towards Viro (5-0).
5TH kills Gr MDI at old troy (6-0).
I consider starting a palace pre for leo's, but I am not sure if we will get Invention, before Ed. I have a few turns on the Knight to see how things shake out.
[14-0]

IBT:
Lots of Mayans coming our way and Russians as well. Forget the pre as sumeria completes Leo's. They have Great Wall and SoZ as well.

880AD:
4/4 knight kills hop near Cumae (1-0).
4/4 MDI kills hop between Middleburg and Gerovia. I have 2 settlers there and get too many cities (2-0).
5/5 GS kills Gr MDI and gets a leader (3-0).
Form an army, but want to fill with knights, so will wait for them to get here.
The only wonder of interest in this age now is Smith's. It will probably not be within our reach, unless we get the others in wars soon.
4/4 GS dies on MDI in grass, so MDI finishes it (4-1).
3rd kills hop and covers MDI as lots of greek units are near it (6-1).
4th and 7th find Kamina...

IBT:
No fights, but.. I see a Russian knight at the Mayan city. Greeks are trying to get back into the core area from the north and passing Middleburg.

This is why I was talking about not having much in the way of gaps in the empire prior to rails. We have lots of fog areas and cannot have any post to to see what is going on.
It would take stack of 2 pikes and a 3rd unit to be safe.

We can leave large tracts open in previously foriegn lands as no one can found a town. If they get in someplace and raze one of ours, it will be hard to get it up again with the limit.

Now that knights can be expected, we have less time to react and pikes could be killed.

[18-1]

890AD:
Too many cities.
3rd kills hop on mountain near Middleburg, which has 4 and 5 stack of greeks next to it and 2 other units on the other side (1-0).
8th sits on the road to Neapolis to make Mayans and russian get off the road a bit.
4th kills pike and 2 JT's and raze Kamina... for 25 gold and 3 slaves (4-0).
7th kills russian knight (5-0).
Found New Lugdunum, start temple.
[23-1]

IBT:
Nothing

900AD:
Put two slaves on a moutnain in Alesia to get a road and mine eventually in case we want to build something there one day.
7th kills 2 jt's (2-0).
2nd kills hop (middleburg 3-0).
Too many cities, so I moved one of the settlers off the road and where it gets the fish and gives max tiles to New Alesia.

[26-1]

IBT:
Greece starts Sistines, so Ed will likely be next for them.
Gr MDI attacks pike covering the settlers (1-0).

[27-1]

910AD:
19 russians passing by MiddleBurg as do an undetermined number of Greeks.
5th kills 2 jt's out of stack heading south along the coast (2-0).
2nd kills Russian horse and spear at Middleburg (4-0).
5/5 GS kills hop at Rutupiae after it was redlined and captured a cat (5-0).
I moved the pike and MDI with two settlers to a hills till the area is cleaned up some.
4th struggles and kills Russian knight (6-0).
8th kills 2 Mayan MDI's (8-0).
one knight into 9th.
[35-1]

IBT:
More units stream past Middleburg.

920AD:
knight kills redlined hop (1-0).
knight kills Gr mdi these are both near Rutupiae (2-0).
MDI kills another Gr mdi there (3-0).
1st kills 2 russian swords near Middleburg (5-0).
6th kills Russian MDI and 2 spears there. All of these are on mountains (8-0).
9th makes its debuet and kills Russian mdi near Neapolis (9-0). It is full.
Bad break, the galley does not see any borders, but sees a Nipponese worker and we must declare.
Since I am already in the soup I move the galley its last move and see a colony.
So sami's will be visiting soon, sorry.
5th kills jt and 2 mdi on the western coast (11-0).
8th kills russian knight and 4th kills mdi (12-0).
Too many cities.
Knight kills russian MDI (13-0).
2nd kills russian spear and mdi at middleburg (15-0).
[49-1]

IBT:
Got a bit of a surprise. 4 russian mdi's were able to reach two knights on a mountain and killed one of the knights and retreated the other (2-1).
Then 2 more Mdi's found the exposed MDi at Rutup and kill it (3-2).
Edit this, I was mistaken. I see now that I have the turn that the MDI is still there, so make it (4-1). This is where the 2 settlers are on the hill.
Those long roads fooled me, I though the MDI stack could not reach.
[53-1]

930AD:
Too many cities.
7th kills the 2 russian mdi's (2-0).
2 knights kill 2 russians near Rutup (4-0).
9th makes its might known and kills 3 russian mdi's and get a promotion (7-0).
3rd manages to kill only one russian spear (8-0).
Note I probably flagged some of these as russian that were mayan.

[61-1]

IBT:
Iroq builds Sistine. Looks like thier traits an MW's are doing fine.
Gr mdi dies attacking knight near Rutup and it goes elite (1-0).
Gr knight attacks pike in Eindhoven and retreats.

940AD:
4/4 GS kills the knight (1-0).
4/4 knight retreats from hop near Rutup.
3/5 knight kills it (2-0).
9th kills russian knight in the west (3-0).
9th kills mdi (4-0).
Too many cities.
Back settlers up another tile with a large stack next to them. Not sure yet exactly which town they are headed towards, but none have enough to do much to the stack right now.
Trying to get some cats over there and a few knights to try to pick off some.
[65-1]

IBT:
Nothing. The russians moved around the settlers and seem to be going for Rutup.

950AD:
Moved cats to rutup.
9th kills jt and mdi and heads to the barn (2-0).
knight kills mdi (3-0).
8th kills jt north of Virocc (3-0).
4th kills hop there (4-0).
3rd kills 2 russian spears and a sword at Middleburg (7-0).
7th kills russian spear there as well (8-0).
I stop here.
[73-1]

Lackluster to say the least. 3 armies are headed out north to find Greek towns. Knights are coming to the Rutup area and it has a lot of cats. I am hoping the stack keeps coming that way and not turn around.

I have about the same number of settlers as I started with. The tide from the west should be under control now. Armies in Middleburg to thin out some of the passing units, but units are coming form the north east as well.

OK, I got it.

If we can play the GLib right we don't need to slow down the other civs. We learn Education when we meet advanced civs that find us by crossing the ocean.

I don't know about slowing down other civs. The map seems too big to me to be effective. If we can't get armies across until we have Magnetism, then what good does it do us? We still have to research there.

The only reason I see to go across see would be because a single civ we know knows Education. However currently, since Theology isn't known I don't think this is a risk. If we can hurt Greece quickly we may not have to ever face them getting it. A bigger problem might be Russia as we are not sure where they live.

I still hope though that we could kill them all before they get Edu or before another civ gets across the seas. We will have to see of course. It does require us to be very aggressive.

I have no idea if this a contient and island or what. If we have no other civs on this land mass, than the ones we already know, then we can do as you say. Kill them before they can pass us Ed.

Russia is a very long way from Ed, so they can be last. The problem for us we just about get a handle on the incoming and can start to get on the offense and we met andother civ.

During my turns, Mayan and Russia sent a lot of units and Greece as well. This is now blunted, I hope and we have another window to get out with some armies.

Depending on how many leaders we can get, we may or may not be able to keep pressing, once Japan starts coming in numbers.

The other problem is that they have so many places to come at us, we cannot just focus and have to defend in several areas.

The front is so large, it is hard to get cats into the action. We at least now have Knights getting into the fray. That will let us gets some elites and hopefully leaders.

I like the idea of waiting for them to come to us as we know they will be close to the end of the age techs. We just have to keep from having anyone here with Ed, before we met two of them.

If the landmass is much bigger or worse has yet another civ on it, we will be unable to clean the whole place in time.

The Greeks have to be first and they seem to be north and east of us. The MDI and GS units will be hard pressed without cats to back them. The core now is a fair distance to the front and even farther to any new foriegn towns.

Ya meeting another civ makes my stated plan much harder - probably impossible. My hope was that we were on a smaller land mass.

Note that my post was a cross-post of sorts - I forgot to refresh before posting so even though time had passed, I was looking at the thread from before.

If we think that 2 or more civs will get Education before we do then we could try going across water to find the other continent. My guess though is that this will fail and we will waste a lot of Galleys = shields. The distances are going to be too far so we would have to survive 10 turns to make it.

I still don't think finding the borders of our continent is a bad idea. Meeting Japan at least tells us something about the land mass - it would have been nice to find the border first so we could retreat, but that isn't always possible. We should discuss about whether we are ready to do this - meeting another civ soon would put two rushes close together.

As far as the gaps in fog - We can try to put some towns in them so at least our front line doesnt have too big gaps.

One other note - Invention and Gunpowder are both more likely to be researched before Education. The reason is that both have units associated with them and AI research is heavily biased towards techs with units.

This is why getting gunpowder from the GLib is common

Its all chance though.

Edit: Japanese still have horses - that is a good sign. If only Greece is tech advanced we might have a chance here. I cannot check the Japanese techs because they won't yet speak to us.

There is a fourth luxury on our continent - that makes me more inclined to think our continent is big. That is half the Lux so it may be that 1/2 the civs are on our continent. Likely there are more however (lux distribution on land masses matches civ distribution at 8 civs - not sure how that is handled at 31 civs).

I agree we have only a tiny chance of getting any suicide runs to work on this map. Not worth the pain probably.

No real idea on the landmass, but is look like it may be quite large. The 4 lux suggest we are on a large landmass, but it could be limited to 4 civs. We can hope.

4 luxes are on our continent? That would mean a big continent with far more Civs...

we eliminated 2 so far and know another 4 currently, I fear there are more lurking. It seems Sumer and Iro are the Civs that do well as usual (snatching all the wonders).

I would start researching full steam once we have gunpowder and go for Cavs. We might be able to get economics after that to get Adam Smith. Thus, libraries have to be started one fine day.

I would also not send out any suicide galleys or caravels, no point really. But, once we have galleons, we might want to send some 3 unit Cav armies. It doesn't matter where we land then, we can always start to do some damage and gain more cities.

Quick update. On turn 3 and we will be picking up theology and invention from the Greeks and Mayans next turn. They and the Russians have 13-14 cities, so there's no new civs to be bumped off any time soon.

On turn 3 and we will be picking up theology and invention from the Greeks and Mayans next turnI'd say time to start some libraries in our core cities...

Also a relatively bloody turn set so far. Contrary to what might be gathered from earlier reports, there were 20+ Russian swords operating in the Gergovia area and not enough troops to deal with them.

Quick update. On turn 3 and we will be picking up theology and invention from the Greeks and Mayans next turn. They and the Russians have 13-14 cities, so there's no new civs to be bumped off any time soon.

I hope they start working on the lower track or we will be self researching.

Also a relatively bloody turn set so far. Contrary to what might be gathered from earlier reports, there were 20+ Russian swords operating in the Gergovia area and not enough troops to deal with them.

Sorry I only knew of the one stack that you could see. Did it turn around? How do we deal with tricks like opening a town for them to attack? Is that a no no. I was thinking about that and given that we have taken units out to lure them, I was not sure what was allowed.

Need tomorrow to finish. In a nutshell, the Mayans are stalemated in the west. The road is blown, so his units get halted in the woods, then redlined by cat piles and killed by MI and assorted others. In the east, the Russians are finally cleared out and the best the Japanese have are horses. The Japanese are physically still a bit farther away. In the center, the Greek cities are getting hammered by our GS and knight armies.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/GR15_1030AD.JPG

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/GR15_1050_AD.SAV

Preturn- Rush knight in Augustodurum for 48 gold. Switch to cathedral in 1. Rush knight in Camu for 220 gold. Switch to cathedral in 1. Hurry knight in Lugdunum for 56 gold. Switch to courthouse in 1. Agedincum knight>courthouse. Hurry knight in Arausio for 228 gold. Switch to cathedral in 1. Switch Axima from market to courthouse. Fire taxman at Forest Gump. Rush granary for 132 gold. Switch to courthouse in 3. Monguntiacum market>granary. Note we’re now hitting 90% corruption in 6 towns. Glanum pike>courthouse. Ravenna treb>courthouse. Lindum knight>courthouse. Lezoux market>MI, rush for 128 gold. Switch to courthouse in 5. Ratae Corum market>courthouse. Iron Hills treb>courthouse. Far Mount pike>courthouse. Switch Durocoturum from aqueduct to MI, hurry for 16 gold, then back to aqueduct to speed delivery up a turn. Fire clown in Viroconium. Knight redlines against a JT west of Neapolis. GS finishes it off. (1-0) Vet pike covers red knight.

Military situation is Russian stacks in the vicinity of Gergovia which threaten the city, or our opposing adjacent stack . Other Russian stacks north and south of Middelburg. Advance with knight west of Cumae and find a 3hp Russian knight. Kill it. (2-0).

IBT- My western foray turns into a debacle as the Mayans kill the pike, GS, and knight I sent in that direction (2-3) The Mayans and Greeks have chivalry and have knights. Japan has horsemen spotted up north. Russia is sword intense and lacks chivalry.

Turn 1 (960AD) Merge two workers to Augustodurum to push it to 20 spt. Kill Russian spear and sword at Middelburg. Kill JT, sword, spear and archer with GS armies (8-3) Move the 3 armies to vicinity of Thesalonika. Middelburg GS armies deal with two Russian swords and archer. (11-3) To get the situation in the west under a bit better control, knight pillages road and falls back. Upgrade 13 cats to trebs. Take a forted stack and retreat to Gergovia. GS army kills JT and MI. (13-3)

IBT- Lose knight to Russian sword, Greeks lose knight to defending pike.
(14-4)

Turn 2 (970AD)
5th GS army razes Thessalonika and captures 13 gold. Two defending hops eliminated
(16-4) 6th GS Army kills two Mayan MI (18-4) Red Greek knight killed by GS at Eindhoven. (19-4) Honeycomb Hideout founded near Cornish Hen. Russians lose 2 spears and 8 swords and an archer by Nemausus. Lose a knight. (30-5) Rush temple in Cornish Hen for 60 gold. Kill 2 Mayan JTs and knight west of Neapolis. (33-5). Kill a Russian sword and spear by ruins of Thessalonika (35-5)

IBT- AI moves forward

Turn 3 (980AD) Kill 4 Russian spears and 8 swords by Nemausus. Lose an MI and GS. (46-7) Kill Russian sword and spear at Middelburg. (48-7) Six Mayan JTs and 2 knights killed in the west (56-8). Lose a knight. Pick off a hop near Viroconium. (57-8)

IBT- Russian sword dies against our knight, then a second sword kills it. Greek sword impales itself on pike behind walled city of Eindhoven. Second Greek knight redlines there. (59-9) Theology and invention in. Gunpowder next.

Turn 4 (990AD) Kill the red knight at Eindhoven. 7th Gallic army at Cumae kill 2 Mayan MI and JT. (63-9). Russian archer and sword die by Nemausus. (65-9) Knight there kills Russian spear. (66-9) Trade GS for Greek MI. (67-10) Then kill 4 more outright. (71-10) First Gallic army kills Russian spear by Rutupiae. (72-10). Kill Mayan knight, JT and MI in the west. (75-10)

IBT- Mayans kill a pair of knights, Greeks kill a pike. Mayans lose a knight.
(76-13)

Turn 5 (1000AD) Kill Russian spear, 3 swords and an archer by Nemausus.
(81-13) Kill hop at Rhodes (82-13) 3rd GS army kills Greek knight and Jap horse. (84-13) Kill Greek knight and Jap archer at Eindhoven. (86-13) 5th Gallic sword and 8rd Gallic sword kill 3 hops and an LB at Pharsalos. No gold. Raze the city, but 5th Gallic is redlined. Glevum founded. OK, kill a Mayan knight in the east and get an MGL. Form Knight army. (91-13)

IBT- Mayans lose a knight, Greeks 2 hops, but the third kills the 5th Gallic Army. (94-18) Japan gets in the act and sinks our galley by Izumo. (94-19) Greek MI captures a settler because I didn’t think he was on a road. :cry: What a lousy set I’m playing.


Turn 6 (1010AD) Kill the hop that killed our army. Kill 3 Greek MI by Gergovia. Kill Greek hop and MI by Glevum. Kill 2 Mayan knights out west after redlining them with cats. Trade a Russian MI and spear for an MI. GS at the Hague kills Jap horse. 2nd and 6th GS army each kill a Greek knight.
(106-20)

IBT- A lot of Jap horses and a couple Greek knights on the right, Mayan knights on the left. Maya loses a knight attacking a forted one on the hill. (107-20)

Turn 7 (1020AD) Kill hop with knight army defending Rhodes. 6 Jap horses each killed by one of our knights. Get hop and Mayan sword by Rutupaie. 6th GS army gets two Greek knights, 2nd GS army 2 Jap horses and Russian spear. Mayan knight, JT, and MI killed in the west. 3rd GS army kills Jap horse. Lose a galley to a Russian one. GS goes elite at Eindhoven killing Jap spear. (126-21)

IBT- Japs kill 2 knights and lose 2 horses. (128-23)

Turn 8 (1030AD) 6th GS army kills 2 Jap horses and Greek LB. Elite knight kills elite Jap horse and we pull another MGL. Form another knight army. Knight army loads up and kills another Jap horse. Kill 2 Russian archers, a spear and a sword and they are FINALLY cleared from the western woods. 5th knight army kills 2 hops and a Greek town is razed. Three Cow Town founded. 2nd GS army kills Jap horse. GS kills Mayan LB in the west. 7th GS army kills Greek knight. Looks like we now have the front stabilized. Rush buy several settlers as our inventory is thin. (142-25)

IBT- Spoke to soon. Lose a wounded MI to Greek knight. (142-26) Forest Gump riots.

Turn 9 (1040AD) Kill Russian spear and sword at Middelburg. 4th and 8th GS armies and a knight kill 3 hops and a LB. Thermopylae captured. MI kills Greek knight that got our MI in the IBT. 7th GS army kills hop and sword, Russian I believe. Trade MI for Greek knight. (152-27) How many knights does Alex have??? Mayans lose 2 MI and LB in the west. Short rush a cathedral in Curovernum. (154-27)

IBT- Mayans lose 2 knights. (156-27)

Turn 10 (1050AD) Abandon Thermopylae. Durango founded. GS army finds Athens. Lose an MI, kill Mayan pike, 2 LBs. 9th knight army kills Greek knight. 7th GS kills Greek LB. Knight army kills vet hoplite. (162-28). 2nd GS kills Jap archer. Kill Mayan knight in the west. (164-28)

And done. Running single scientist with GP in 46. We can do gunpowder with 80% science in 10 at -168 gpt. We have 9430 gold, so we should consider going ahead. The other civs still have no techs to buy. As mentioned, the Mayans are stopped west of Neapolis, but we need to get a town down there for quicker healing. 99.9% sure there are no longer any AI units behind our lines. Some of the armies need to get healed up. Greece is weakened in the center, and the Japanese crawling about in the east. We can push ahead easiest in the east and center.

Despite the wretched loss ratio, the 3 AIs are losing in power, with the Greeks getting the worst of it. Five cities at 20 spt is providing a good supply of knights. I pillaged roads in territory we have no immediate use for to slow down the AI advance, given the relative distances we each have to travel. That prevents knights from appearing out of nowhere and picking off certain units.

Seven settlers are available for areas we can settle in. Max food locations would seem to be best given their corruption levels now.

subscribe post

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/GR15_1050_West_front.JPG

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/GR15_1050_Central_front.JPG

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/GR15_1050_East_front.JPG

Ooh, pretty pictures.

Thanks M60! :D

those flood plains towards Japan look good as science farms...

will start tonight, so people can chip in their opinion whether we should start with research towards gunpowder. I lean towards research since we got so much money...we can start with libraries as well as we want Mil Trad as soon as possible

I would say research should wait, until we get Ed or at least GP from the GLB.

Reason, the money is good now, but won't last long once we self research. Additionally, GP is not going to do much for us right away. I forget the cost of Muskets, but in the main we will have a hard time getting them to the front and they cost too much.

If they are 50 Vs 30, we can build 5 pikes for 3 muskets. The 1 defense extra is not bad, but more often having two defenders is better. The lucky roll does not cost you the town. You get the MP effect.

Pile up cash to use for some of the rush buying and defict spending that we will be doing.

Our researching GP will make it cheaper for civs we know as well. It is either going to come to us for free or we will be getting Ed. Either way we can wait to start till we met some more civs.

We have some libs, I think, but can squeeze in some more here and there.

The thing is we need as many knioghts as we can get out the door. In order to get more aggressive we need lots of knights A bad side effect of using armies to do most of the killing is that we are not grooming very many elites.

I had few promotions and M60 did not mention many either. We will have to take losses though using knights straight up against other knights, but MDI and LB are fair game.

We have to get more knight armies to range farther and do more razing. GS armies are still slower and just are not going to fare all that well Vs forted pikes and knights in cities.

Five cities at 20 spt is providing a good supply of knights.

I'm sorry to say it, but knights cost seventy shields, not eighty, so your admirably thorough MM of our knight-producing cities is wrong.

We're in a bad era and situation for the kill ratio, with our basic attack only 4-3, and the front so long we can't assemble enough bombardment units in any one place.

I think we should self-research Gunpowder. Even if it turns out to be the wrong call, the cost will be minor relative to our hoard of gold.

An interesting detail from the F3 screen: the Japanese have captured units from the Incas and the Americans.

Edit: I agree with Vmxa about the wretched cost-effectiveness of musketmen (which in fact cost sixty shields), but the point of Gunpowder would be to get us started on the road to cavalry, not to let us build muskets. We'd probably want to disconnect saltpetre until we learned Military Tradition.

As I said, five cities at 20 spt will provide a good supply of cavalry when the time comes. ;)

those flood plains towards Japan look good as science farms...

We have to try it, but I wonder whether we'll get much benefit from science camps in this game. The city limit and the remoteness of our enemies may keep us from having enough towns until it's too late to matter.

If science farms aren't going to help us much, that will be a strong argument for a switch to communism when the time comes.

We have to try it, but I wonder whether we'll get much benefit from science camps in this game. The city limit and the remoteness of our enemies may keep us from having enough towns until it's too late to matter.
Now, that I seriously doubt. We have a lot of land already and currently 51 cities. There are another 50 cities to be gained from the AI, if this is all our continent can provide.
I'd say if we have around 100+ cities, communism will be great. However, if there are more Civs lurking (and I don't think we can say anything for sure here), science farms will be the way to go. I remember our last huge map continent game, we had 200+ cities on our continent and with razing overseas, this swelled to many more.
Knowing that we have 1/2 of the luxes of the world, one can assume that there are more Civs somewhere, we simply didn't meet yet.

I think we will have science farms aplenty, of course we can always change to production later on once we have steam...

I also think we will have a lot of cities when we clear the continent.

I guess I am also in favor of self research as we may not get another tech for a while - Greeks were the leaders, but we won't get anything from them - therefore we have to meet 2 advanced civs to get it. Not sure that this will occur in the next 30 turns or not. In 30 turns I think we will be ahead of the AI (we will be into Metalurgy I think) unless we meet a really advanced civ (more likely on the other continent).

I agree with turning science up. As Greebley points out, by beating up the Greeks, we're weakening our science partner. I don't see them bringing in gunpowder any time soon.

Science farms will be huge for exactly the reason ThERat says. If we do some dirty math, let's say our continent and continent X each hold 200 cities. If we're razing and replacing, we'll end up with 200 cities here. Designate 50 for production, that leaves 150 science farms. At 6 scientists each, 18 beakers per city, that's 2700 beakers per turn. That's enormous output considering any AI civ on continent X may have 50-60 cities at most.

But we need to get to steam power as soon as possible because we need to eliminate the distance factors on this huge map. Rails will do that in no time.

What is the victory type target? If it is conquest, then we do have to go to max research. If we know what the landmass size was, it would make it easier to figure out.

With steam beinng far out in the future, we need the 3 move cavs to get any place, so I guess I will reverse myself and say go self research. If the land lamss is not all that much larger than what we already can detect, then we could hold off.

executive summary for my turns:

- started research, halted then started again since TGL is obsolete
- thus 3 turns left on gunpowder
- met 2 new Civs (Inca + America)
- got us up to 60 cities
- 2 more knight armies (12 in total IIRC)

Pre-Turn
do extensive MM only to get the computer to completely hang before I can save this :mad:
reload original save..
switch on research, fire all taxmen and get scientists...there are many scientists we can employ already without losing any benefit
we can now get gunpowder in 10 at -100gpt, not too bad

it's Greece and Mayans we should go after since they are most advanced

IT no attacks, just some movements going on and we get a mere knight...

1.1060AD
Mayans have gunpowder now...maybe it would be better to switch off since we can expect to get that then...
very little action, but I do sink a Japanese galley

pound a stack of 8 Mayan units and lose 1 knight to a Greek redlined knight [10-1]

switch off research and employ back our taxman :crazyeye:

IT seems I underestimated the Mayans, go 1:2 in the forest that is the current battleground
we get a settler, court, 2 pikes and 1 knight this time [11-3]

2.1070AD
defeat 3 units in Knossos, still units left [14-3]
another quiet turn, build up forces in the forest and advance some armies

IT fierce battle continues as we go 2:2 in that forest [16-5]
then 2 Greeks knight appear from fog in nowhereland but both retreat
this time we churn out 4 knights, 1 pike and a court

3. 1080AD
defeat both Greek knights
defeat 2 units and raze Knossos, Greek lose their horses
found Floodplains
defeat a first unit in Athens and Uaxactun

defeat 4 more stray units
go 3:1 in the forest amassing more units together [29-6]

IT setup in forest better now as we defeat 2 knight on defense
retreat a fog knight from Greece [32-6]

4.1090AD
:eek: while moving towards the Japanese colonies, meet the Incas
their are down invention, but have 25 cities, one of them is named New Orleans...we all know what that means, in fact they got Japanese cities as well

defeat 4 units in Athens, but a wounded knight shows up, armies too wounded to attack
move in another GS army and defeat an LB along the way

forest fights with Mayas result in 3 deaths, defeat 2 stray knights from Greece [41-6]

IT Mayan LB from fog defeats a pike, we then beat a knight [42-7]

5.1100AD
defeat 2 knights in Athens and another hoplite shows up....
lucky we got another army in range and raze city (we need more slaves, thus razing is good)
found Floodlines

defeat spear and take away japanese horses from their colony. Moving north spot Incan borders
but also knights...

defeat 5 assorted units, we are long overdue for a MGL and army, we need desperately more fo them [51-7]

IT lose a pike in the forest [51-8]

6.1110AD
cut a road to cut the Japanese iron
defeat a Incan knight on the way
move towards Argos

cut down 6 japanese units at our front
defeating a JW we finally get a MGL, he runs back town to from army next turn
defeat 2 more units there [61-8]

IT we go 1:1 again at the Mayan battleground
Japanese maces show up on the horizon, just on time to cut the iron/horses [62-9]

7.1120AD
form army
defeat 3 units and raze Argos, found coastline
march on to Sparta, march on to Incan Atico, great, run into a American archer
16 cities and down invention...we should have better started gunpowder
declare war

defeat 3 units, lose 1 [68-10]

being fed up, start research again at max, it will now take 6 turns :crazyeye:

IT lousy performance again as we lose 2 units against fog gangsters [68-12]
Incans who are first in the IT always are sending numbers of knights down, Greebley will have to deal with them

8.1130AD
Maya have education now, so it was timely to start research yet again
3 units are slain and Sparta no more
Cowplains in the north founded

while defeating a redlined knight in slain forest get another MGL...good
slain a japanese spear

defeat 3 units and Atico is razed
found Black Forest

rush 3 settlers [76-12]

IT hmm, we learn education and TGL is obsolete
we still have 4 turns for gunpowder...not nice

9.1140AD
defeat 2 units in Corinth, one in Cuello...a stray greek knight
defeat 3 units and take Mycenae, keep it for now

march on to Delphi [83-12]

10.1150AD
defeat 3 units and raze Cuello for 40 gold
found Noviomagus

defeat 1 unit in Vitcos
defeat 2 units and take Corinth, move on to Herakleia
defeat 2 units and capture Delphi

defeat stray knight, move on to Ephesus, leave it to Greebley to abandon Mycenea (flip risk is there) (we have a

settler for replacement in the south)

Greece has a mere 3 cities left and we might take them out in 2-3 turns

forest fights continue with us taking out 6 units [98-12]


gunpowder is due in 3 (sorry my bad gamble)
now, we have the choice to go after Cavalry first or trying to chase Smiths
banking would take 8 turns and then maybe another 8 for economics
I would favor this as we need banking later on anyway and Smiths would be huge for us

we are in a stable situation as America/Japan and Incans have all fought wars and do not have those dreaded huge

stacks we usually face. Thus we could wait for cavalry a little longer

we have now 60 cities and can gain many more. we are the cultural leaders on our continent
we already employ 58 scientists and that is only going to increase...they will contribute in this game for sure
compare now 174 beakers from scientists versus 500 beakers at 90% science
we will break ever here sooner or later


save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/GR15_1150_AD.SAV)

some pictures
the remainder of what once was Greece, south of them Mayan land

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/this_was_greece.jpg

Mayan land, do note that there seems to be a land connection way south what was assumed to be a dead end

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/mayas.jpg

the land of our new 'friends'
Incas have another 24 or so cities...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/incas.jpg

Cool game, please give me one room in the Lurker's Hotel :)
I like huge maps with all their potential.

as I pointed out I am in favor for the research to go gunpowder -> banking -> economics then towards Mil Trad

with let's say potentially 30 markets/banks/harbors (or even more), the gpt savings will be immense

We should not miss that. We could start a prebuild if we decide to go for this, our FP city is currently set for uni..but could be swapped

Now we at least know we have a very large contient to deal with. How many civs have we met now? With 2 eliminated, must be a very large landmass.

Yeah a pre for Smith will save us a lot of gold for the rest of the game. We cannot rely on capturing any wonder in time to be useful as they may be very far away fom us for all we know.

4.1090AD
while moving towards the Japanese colonies, meet the Incas
their are down invention, but have 25 cities, one of them is named New Orleans...we all know what that means, in fact they got Japanese cities as well
Shouldn't be it American?

Shouldn't be it American?They must have captured New Orleans, which was American, but besides that, I also saw at least one Japanese city name in their list...I am sure they have fought 2 wars at least involving America and Japan.
That is why those 3 Civs will not have huge stacks any longer (and in fact the reason why we get a really pathetic trickle from Japan). This is a relief for us as we won't have to handle too many units.

However, the Incas are sending down some knights, but I guess traffic jams on the congested hills are keeping them slow...beware though (we do have plenty of knights and artillery in the area for future defense, so shouldn't be an issue, in fact the Japanese units are great leader fodder)

Haven't had one in a bit.

Roster:

Greebley (up)
markh (on deck)
Northern Pike
vmxa
M60A3TTS
ThERat (just played)

Well, Rat, if you wanted to prove your point that we can have a lot of scientists in this position, you've done it. ;) But I think we've gone too far in that direction. We have good towns at less than 50% corruption, such as Welsh Rabbit and Ravenna, written off as science farms building settlers. There's a lot of the game ahead of us, and such promising places should be allowed to develop normally (aqueduct in WR, marketplace in Ravenna).

Boring though it is, we should rationalize our deployment of MP units. Inner towns with cathedrals (Entremont, Alesia, Agedincum) have more than they need, while a little farther out we have cities running specialists for lack of MP.

Well, Rat, if you wanted to prove your point that we can have a lot of scientists in this position, you've done it. But I think we've gone too far in that direction. We have good towns at less than 50% corruption, such as Welsh Rabbit and Ravenna, written off as science farms building settlers.The 50% corrupted towns will surely be useful as something other than settler farms later on. As it is at the moment, unit support is staggering (something like 130gpt). And, we are short of settlers. Thus, I had some semi corrupted places build settlers. As we expand and the need to build settlers in our core decreases, those cities should be developed.
With more armies, we will raze cities faster and have a more pressing need for settlers. I'd say we can never have enough of them for the time being. I always try and balance scientists with a real need to get more shields and growth. I do hope we can get more flood plain cities, those grow fast to get us more settlers.

By the way, Greebley might have some internet issues again...

Hmm... Thought I posted my I got it but I don't see it.

I played last night and will post the results soon.

With more armies, we will raze cities faster and have a more pressing need for settlers. I'd say we can never have enough of them for the time being.

Completely agree. This is a huge map. We have the potential for perhaps 200 cities and towns on this continent alone. Keep 'em coming I say.

Preturn:
Mayans have silks so I may try to go for them to find them if I can.
Rush a Settler or two just to make sure we have enough to keep up with building new towns.
Kill a Hop in

I am planning on going for Economics. Start the Prebuild in Alesia which will finish the palace in 37 turns (but that is 1000 shields and we only need 600). I am guessing Economics will take about 20-24 turns to get which is about right (has 27 shields per turn ~ 22 turns total)

IBT: Troop movement - no Attacks.

1160 AD: Raze Vitcos (Incan) to build Deva.
Capture Ephesus. Attack and kill 3 units in Herakliea - the current Greek Capitol.
Abandon Delphi to build Northern River
Abandoned another Greek town (forgot the name) to build Wheat By A River.

IBT: Not sure where the Incan Knights are going. Our boat gets sunk by the Japanese.

1170 AD: Capture and Abandon Herakliea to build Argent Rose. Lose a Knight attacking a Spearman.

BTW, most of our cities that are farther away from the capitol should be built in Grasslands that is irrigatable (unless we are sure we are going for Communism - and I don't think we should necessarily) and not plains (which only supports one scientist).

1180 AD: We get gunpowder and don't have Saltpeter connected. There are several on our borders and one safe in our territory when we want it.
MM Banking down to 7 turns. Most armies heal. Kill some random incoming units.

IBT: Lose a Knight vs a Knight along a road.

1190 AD: Kill 3 Pikes in Shimonoseki (Incan)
Capture Eretria and The Greeks have been Destroyed I was going to raze but our army is too injured and needs the town radius to defend itself.
Abandon Ephesus and build Tangerine

IBT: Knight attacked on Mountain and Forest win. Knight attacked in Hills retreats. We lose a fortified boat to Japan. I am 0 for 4 with boats for the game (0 for 2 this turn ).

1200 AD: Attack Quirigua (Myan - size 12) and capture it.

IBT: Watch about 30 odd Incan units pass by an Army. They are headed for Myceanae (the main reason I still have kept it is to lure the Incans this round-about way. There will be an initial rush of Incans, but it won't be for a while yet (the slow units that is).

1210 AD: Quirigua is Abandoned. Build Rivermuth up North (gets Wheat, Cow, Whale and is at the mouth of a River).
Capture

1220 AD: Capture Uaxactun (Mayan - size 12)
Capture Lagarto(Mayan)

1230 AD: Myceanae is Abandoned as the first Incan unit finally reached it - built High Rock
Abandon Lagarto and build Rivers Bend

1240 AD: Attack and Raze Palenque. Build Twixtseas between the two seas.
Uaxactun is abandoned to build Teal Fields.

IBT: We get Banking and start on Economics

1250 AD: Piedres Nadres is Razed built Fort Furthest to replace it.
Abandoned Eretria and built Thrweat.

Notes:
Economics in 7 at Max science. Palace prebuild is in Alesia and should finish smiths in 12-13 turns.

We have two settlers in place to form towns. There are 10-12 settlers elsewhere. Settlers take a long time to reach the front lines. I suggest we continue to build them at all times. Stopping building settlers will mean the player after won't be able to place new towns as no settlers would be reaching the front.

There will be a decent sized "Incan Rush" at some point. Not sure how many turns as it depends on the number of roads - maybe 10?. We need more forces near Fort Furthest - including trebuchets. Some units were only a few turns away - the numbers didn't seem large.

My turns on the other hand were very quiet. It was generally hard to find units to fight. This is the primary reason I got no leader.

We will want to bring the armies near Tikal back toward our own lines for the rush after Tikal falls. We will need them I think I think they can be in position in 5 or so turns.

Note that the Incan forces are the slow units. The Knights have already come for the most part - other than some trickling in.

Mayans and Russians also have several knights and other units to the West. I have been picking them off as they come in. There might be a smaller "Russian rush". Not sure on that.

I am not sure what the Americans and Japanese are sending. I have seen MDI from Japan passing by, but not so I could tell where they were heading. I don't really expect the Americans to have much of anything.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/GR15_AD1250a.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/GR15_AD1250b.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/Greebley/GR15_AD1250c.jpg

The Save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/14765/GR15_1250_AD.zip)

Looks like many science farms could be piled into the vicinity of Thrweat once cleared of bad guys. Plenty of virgin grasslands.

looking really good. I am glad you went along with my suggestion and Smiths. It will help us in the long run.

Once we have cavalry, we might want to think about not filling armies with 4 units, but only 3. This is to be able to ship them to overseas with galleons.

Greebley, there might be a reason (I stated earlier) why there is no initial rush from Japan/America and Inca. They fought each other and burned all their units anyway. Thus, they do not have that many units in store, which is lucky for us (or maybe not since we can't get MGL's then)

I have no internet connection at home at the moment. My provider will send a technician today, but it is not sure he can fix it, so if I do not post a "got it" tonight I need a swap or skip. If he cannot fix it today I will have no access the whole weekend and can only post again on Monday. Sorry.

Do we even know if there is another continent? It may be quite some time before we are sending any armies out.

Do we even know if there is another continent?Well, since we have seen 4 luxes so far, I assume there should be some other continents (or one) around. Until we hit cav armies, we should know a little more.
PP might give more contacts (in case there are more civs on our land).

Greebley, there might be a reason (I stated earlier) why there is no initial rush from Japan/America and Inca. They fought each other and burned all their units anyway. Thus, they do not have that many units in store, which is lucky for us (or maybe not since we can't get MGL's then)

Ya, I agree with this - the rushes will be reduced - In America's case I don't see one at all.

However, there will be somewhat of one. This is based on Armies in the Incan lands seeing large numbers of units go by 20-30 at one point. The locations of the rushes are just guesses though (based on the locations of the units I saw and the directions they were traveling). I saw the units while still in the Incan lands.

It is also possible the Incans are still at war and we will get no rush at all. I think we should plan for those units heading toward us so we don't get suprised by it.

I have no internet connection at home at the moment. My provider will send a technician today, but it is not sure he can fix it, so if I do not post a "got it" tonight I need a swap or skip. If he cannot fix it today I will have no access the whole weekend and can only post again on Monday. Sorry.guess Northern Pike is up now...

guess Northern Pike is up now...

OK, I've got it. I'll try to play a reasonable number of turns and pass it on to Vmxa with some of the weekend left.

Pass it back with lots of dead Incan units, if you please. :D

Vxma, I'll post in time for you to start playing on Sunday morning, but it won't be tonight.

So far we've taken six cities in six turns, and gained one GL/army. There's been no sign of an Inca rush.

Sounds good, I am subscribed, so I will see any post.

1280 AD--two armies have movement (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/33960/GR15_1280_AD.SAV)

1250 (0): I don’t much like offensives by single, unsupported armies, which involve too much risk of losing them. So I’m going to combine our two Gallic armies in Inca territory for use against the more vulnerable Japanese, while our knight army in the Inca lands explores and looks for a city without terrain or population bonuses which it might attack safely.

I begin rationalizing the deployment of the MP units in our core.

We lose a pikeman and a redlined knight to counterattacks (0-2).

Lapurdum cathedral --> pikeman.


1255 (1): We crush one pikeman from Yaxchilan's garrison (1-2).

We defeat the last three Mayan pikemen in Tikal and raze the city (4-2). Between razing and captures we gain eight slaves.

We found Malagate in the north centre of our front.

West of Fort Furthest we dispose of seven Russian units--a pikeman, two spearmen, and four MDI (11-2).

Elsewhere we smite a Japanese spearman, a Japanese archer, an Inca pikeman, an Inca MDI, a JT, a Mayan LB, and a Russian spearman, losing a knight (18-3).

A fog bandit picks off one of our pikemen, though the pike was on a mountain (18-4). The combination of roads and fog actually makes enemy longbowmen dangerous. :lol:

Burdigala cathedral --> university (a long build, but with limited land tiles this might as well be a research town).


1260 (2): Didn't we have some discussion in GR13 about armies occasionally failing to regain hit points? One of our armies facing the Maya, which spent last turn motionless in neutral territory, has just done this.

We slay the three remaining pikemen of Yaxchilan's garrison and raze the city (21-4). Between razing and captures we gain six slaves and two trebs.

We found Hekkus, which will be a real city almost in our core, not a science camp.

Elsewhere we shatter only a Mayan pikeman, a Mayan LB, and a CS (24-4). As Greebley said, on some turns there aren't many targets.

Eboracum cathedral --> university, Brundisium courthouse --> marketplace.

The Maya, though down to five cities, are building Copernicus.


1265 (3): We grind down a Japanese force of three pikemen and an archer along the east coast (28-4).

Northwest of Fort Furthest we strike down five Inca MDI and an Inca archer (34-4). That seems to be the whole force, though.

The Maya make a fairly clever landing next to Twixtseas, with a knight and an MDI, and dealing with it costs us a knight (36-5).

Elsewhere we ride down a Mayan pikeman and a Mayan LB (38-5).


1270 (4): We raze Calakmul, held by three pikemen and an LB, and gain five slaves and a treb (42-5).

We found Falushe in a gap in the SW grasslands.

We dispose of two pikemen of Copan's garrison (44-5).

Elsewhere we account for a Japanese archer, a Russian MDI, and an Inca MDI (47-5).

We repel three enemy attacks (50-5).

Lezoux library --> knight.


1275 (5): We raze Copan, held for some reason only by two pikemen (52-5). We gain five slaves and 112 gold.

As we advance on Ise we trample a Japanese stack of an archer, a spearman, and two MDI, but lose a knight (56-6).

NW of Fort Furthest on the eastern shores of the inland sea, where the Russians are making a considerable push, we eliminate eleven of their MDI, a spearman, and two pikemen (70-6).

We found Larque on the recent battleground by the NW inland sea.

We liquidate one pikeman of Chichen Itza's garrison (71-6).

In minor skirmishing we rout a Russian knight and a Mayan knight (73-6), generating a Great Leader and so forming our thirteenth army.

Glevum temple --> pikeman, Agedincum university --> worker, Cornish Hen aqueduct --> settler, Ratae C. marketplace --> cathedral, Irish Pennant courthouse --> aqueduct, Axima cathedral --> library.


1280 (6): We raze Lazapa, held by three pikemen and an LB (77-6). We gain 144 gold and five slaves.

We locate the Incas' silks, about thirty tiles north of any of our cities.

We raze (Japanese) Ise, held by three pikemen and two archers (82-6). We gain six slaves.

For once the AI seems interested in reinforcing a threatened city, so we have to break off our attack on Chichen Itza to thrash three Mayan pikemen approaching the town (85-6).

Along the northern shore of the northern inland sea we overrun three Russian units—two MDI and a spearman (88-6).

We found Treesong and Gersen in the north, both on excellent science-camp sites.

Twelve elite victories this round produced one Great Leader.

The situation around Chichen Itza is delicate, because all five of our armies are depleted, and we have to defend a large stack of captured workers. But the Maya are down to two cities, and we’ll easily eliminate them in three or four turns, even if we have to wait for our armies to heal.

Now that we’ve got armies and knights concentrated against the Japanese, we should raze one of their cities every three turns or so. There are two breaks in our coastal road to Japan which we need to repair, so don’t automatically send our workers in the area the other way. A little more road-building in that region should give us a highway to the Inca lands, too.

There’s been no sign of an Inca rush so far, although I know Greebley reported seeing large stacks in their territory.

The Japanese and American rush units, such as they are, are moving south through the great mountain range towards the River‘s Bend floodplain/oasis area. We have knights and trebs waiting, and the enemy stacks shouldn’t give us any trouble.

The Russians are appearing at the northern end of the northern inland sea.

I’m not aware of any enemy units in the fog behind our lines, although that’s not a guarantee. ;)

I’ve left two knight armies in the west with their movement (or 7/9 of it, in one case), because they can go almost anywhere, depending on our ideas about strategy. With the Maya almost gone, and the Russians so far easily contained with the units we have in place, we may want to start shifting armies east to attack the Inca and Japanese cores.

We have fifteen settlers, of which thirteen are on roads and two in acceptable locations for new cities. We should do our best to put science farms on fresh water, even if this means packing them in tightly; for example, Gersen’s one-tile lake could take another town.

Once we’ve eliminated the Maya, a huge area of grassland in the west will become available for science camps. We have settlers moving in that direction.

We’ll discover Economics this interturn, and complete Smith six turns after that. We can’t cut the science rate, though. We could re-assign a few scientists, but I don’t like to cut such things too close.

I’ve left a few workers and bombardment units with their movement to call attention to their stacks.

The continental struggle:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/33960/GR15-1280ADa.JPG

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/33960/GR15-1280ADb.JPG

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/33960/GR15-1280ADc.JPG

I got it. Man it is a long way to those silks. It looks like it will take forever to get towns down in that area. I presume we want to head straight for cavs now an not concern ourselves with Cops or Newtons?

That would be correct.

Here is the save:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/42522/GR15_AD1305.SAV

Pre:

As usual, the map is so large I am lost for a long time before I can even shake of the paralysis and make a move. You don't know exactly what is going on and what to prepare for next.

I know NP had a plan, but I don't know what he was planning for the two stacks of cats for instance. So I move them forward a bit, but leave them on the hills for now. I use two of the knights in the stack to finish off the redlined Long Bows, lest they get lucky on attack. (2-0)

I agree completely that they can be very dangerous against MDI and Pikes and even Knights.

They are fodder on defense, but as strong as knights on attack. I also fret over the 9th as it is redlined. I did not want the LB's to drive it off the workers or damage it further.

I leave the 9th in place and hope to get them some healing. The second stack of cats on the mountain is one I am at a loss as to what to do with them. The stack is too small to attack any towns and too slow to ge any place.

They are not well constituted to even attack stack units going by as they only have 2 MDI and one pike.

The double edged sword of slaves in this map is that it will be difficult to get them back to where we can use them. They need armies escorts to be safe and are too slow. I would like to get 4 pikes to do the escorting with maybe 2 mdi's. Ah, that is wishful thinking.

The 12th and 13th are far from any action andI am not sure where to send them. I opt to head towards Matsuyama and will see what is available when they get in the vacinity.

IBT:
Well I should not have mentioned LB's as one came out of the Mayan capitol and killed a knight that was in a stack on a hill with cats, ouch (0-1). I hate IT's.
[2-1]

1285AD:
Econ comes in and I start Chem at 8 turns -339 gold. Switch Alesia to Smiths in 5 turns.
Well 5/5 knight kills Mayan LB and gets two very nice events. A leaders is born and I see silks (1-0). Now all I have to do is get the leader home.
4/4 knight kills another Mayan LB (2-0).
Two 4/4 knights kill Nip archer and spear (4-0). Did not use the elite as I have a leader.
Two 4/4 knights attack Nip archer, first retreats and the second kills it (5-0).
To many cities. BTW I do not see any settlers that are in place? Ok, I found one and renamed it to in-place.

Moving some towards the silks. Looks like we have some settlers out ahead of pace going towards Japan?
Smoke sends out at least 2 pikes from the capitol and maybe the LB's where from there, not sure.
2 MDI and a GS attack a pike and mdi (7-1).
Not much action here as all armies are damaged except 12th/13th which were not in range of anything.
[9-2]

IBT:
Nothing much, lots of units move about, but they are hard to track as they move into the fog. This is why I was talking about not founding towns out in open spaces. Keeping an ocp line and being able to see the traffic, until we can get to the point that we have enough slaves to use a outlooks.

1290AD:
4 cities are about to riot, so I give them a specialist for now.
Knight kills pike @Gersen (1-0) maybe russian, could be Mayan.
Too many cities.
17 Ican units show up at Treesong. Not sure why they are going past it as it only had 1 knight to defend. Probably heading Fort Further that is empty.
Use 3 damaged armies to kill 4 pikes and an archer at Itza and razed it for 241g.
Get 6 slaves and a cat. (5-0).
Found New Entremont.
4/4 knight kill Nip archer and goes elite (6-0).
Knights kill 2 Incan mdi and an archer out of the stack (9-0).
3rd kill the last incan in the stack of 4, a spear (10-0).
4/4 knight kills Russian spear north of Further Fort (11-0).
4/4 knight kills Russian LB (12-0).
3/4 goes red, but kills Russian pike (13-0).
[22-2]

IBT:
Russian knight comes out of the fog and kills a knight covering a settler, but the GS is there (0-1).
Wow the Incan's have arrived. I see two stacks of 12 and 2 more of 13 next to Treesong. I suspect I will have to abandon it. I wish now I had keep the 12/13th in the area. This looks to be a massive contient and I am sure we will find many more civs, so we had better take care in our sight seeing.

[22-3]

1295AD:
4/4 mdi kills Russian knight (1-0).
5/5 knight kills Mayan LB (2-0).
8th kills Mayan pike (3-0).
Three 4/4 knight's kill Nip mdi's (6-0).
Too many cities. 5th is cutting the silks in the Incan land.
5/5 knight retreats from Incan mdi.
4/4 knight kills Incan mdi (7-0).
3rd kills I-pike (8-0).
4/4 knight kills another pike (9-0).
4/4 and 4/5 knight kill pikes (11-0).
Three 4/4 knights kill mdi (14-0).
two 3/4 knights kill mdi (16-0, both promotions.
10th kills mdi, but has to cover the knights (17-0).
4/4 knight kills Mayan pike @Gresen (18-0).
4/4 knight kills Incan mdi @Treesong and I abandon it. This is because I can at least found a town and not lose count and prevent them from getting gold (19-0).
Found New Alesia.
4/4 knight kills US archer, but goes red (20-0).
5/5 knight kills Nip archer (21-0).
Two 4/4 attacks a Russian knight and kill it, with one retreating (22-0).
Three more cities need specialist. The silks are still several towns short of being in our land. I can see that the last Mayan cities must have them as I can see borders. Probably will just hold the city to gain the silks.
[44-3]

IBT:
Sumerian's build Cope's.
4 Incan mdi attack the two wounded knights and kill them, while one knight kill one and redlined two. At least it drew off about 6 or 7 units (0-2). Not cutting some of these roads is costing us. Thos slow movers are able to move to far (1-2).
[45-4]

1300AD:
9th kills Mayan LB near their last city (1-0).
14th is filled.
Too many cities.
3/5 and 4/5 knights kill Incans by Fort Furthest (2-0).
Few units in place as most were damaged last round and went to heal.
Three 3/4 knights attack the stack of Incan's and one goes elite one dies (4-1).
Stack has 23 units still, but must get off the road and cannot reach Furthest.
Two 4/4 knights kill 2 Nip archers (6-1).
Plenty of targets, but few units. Ratio is falling with so many exposed tiles and no real advantage. May want to think about hooking up salt soon to get a few muskets in place to face the cavs and knights.
One more city needs a specialist.
[51-5]

IBT:
Pike attacked by Nip mdi, but wins (1-0).
Knight comes out of the fog to kill a long retreating redlined mdi (1-1).
We really need to cut these roads. Nearly all losses came from IBT attacks.
[52-6]

1305AD:
Fishertown needs a specialist.
4/4 mdi kill russian spear (1-0).
2 knight armies park near to last Mayan city, it has muskets.
Three 4/4 knights kill Nip 2 pikes and archer (4-0) one goes elite.
3/4, 4/4 and 5/5 knights kill 3 Nip mdi @RiversBend (7-0).
4/4 knight kills a Nip spear (8-0).
12th kills Nip pike (9-0).
10th kills Incan knight and mdi near Furthest (11-0).
5/5 knight kills I-mdi (12-0).
4/5 kills one as well (13-0).
8th kills russian knight (14-0).
4th kills mayan LB (15-0).
11th had to recapture 4 trebs that were miss clicked and I thought they were safe. I had to move some units and all the armies that were healing to find them.
Gersen has a knight and an elite mdi with 3 trebs. Nearby is 2 russian pikes and 2 russian knights. a 5 or 6 slaves are exposed, fog got me again.
I left the knight as next up. You can either decide to come out witht he trebs and units to kill the knight or stay put.

Teal is exposed as well. The stack of Incan units is still good size, but is isolated some and can be contained, I think. we have a bunch of knight healing near there and 2 armies as well as 10 or so cats. Two of the stacks are pinged some.
67-6]

OK, I got it. Looks like 3 immediate tasks, kill Incan stacks, capture Bonampak to finish the Maya, and bring force to bear on Japan so we can build more cities. Looks like once the Mayans are gone, we need to bust some fog south of that location.

There are now 4 armies nearing Japan. but I would not venture very far in that direction as there is surely other civs past them or even intersperced.

At least the Incan land is exposed enough to be risk free from contacts. it will be tougher though. Russians are past the old Mayan lands as they are coming out of that area. Not sure how far they are away though.

I came down with a cold, got it from the boss lady, so figure to go only 5 turns. I do not have MLK day off, so maybe you do.

I know NP had a plan, but I don't know what he was planning for the two stacks of cats for instance.

Yes, in a game on this scale it's impossible to write handover notes that cover everything. I just intended for those two stacks to block the mountain roads until we eliminated the Maya. Well, no harm done, evidently.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/GR15_Maya_dead.JPG

Smokey is off hunting the big jaguar in the sky. Incans are about to take Fort Furthest as there simply isn't enough to stem the tide. Will be spending a fair part of my set vectoring in forces for the counteroffensive and taking Japanese cities.

Yes, in a game on this scale it's impossible to write handover notes that cover everything. I just intended for those two stacks to block the mountain roads until we eliminated the Maya. Well, no harm done, evidently.

I figured as much and I left them there for a time, but nothing every came in range of them. We have lots of cats types, but it will be hard to get them some place that they will be useful, until rails.

We just do not know where they will be at any given time. Once issue is that the GS armies are now not able to cover enough ground and are marginal Vs pikes in a city. Probably are very shakey Vs muskets.

The distances are just so great. Cavs will help a lot, but even they will be be unable to get to the front for a number of turns.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/GR15_Maya_dead.JPG

Smokey is off hunting the big jaguar in the sky. Incans are about to take Fort Furthest as there simply isn't enough to stem the tide. Will be spending a fair part of my set vectoring in forces for the counteroffensive and taking Japanese cities.

Abandon if it cannot be saved, so you can found another town. BTW I hope you switched that pike to a temple and rush it soon in the Silk town. We don't want an autoraze or a raze of any kind.

if our city is size 2+, you could let them capture the city and we get it back sometime later. we got a lot of cities, so the cash loss won't be that big of a problem.

It sometimes slows them down since they will try and defend that city. But surely we will face that sort of dilemma until we got rails. The inital rushes will be painful as we spread out very fast. I suggest to found cities in a pattern that borders do not interrupt. We can do that until we get rails.

Do you know if they will keep the town? Is there any way to determine if they will capture rather than raze?

BTW we may also need to get a harbor in the silk town to ensure we do not get the roads cut and lose the silks in the rest of the empire.

even if they raze it, I don't think any AI has a settler in place immediately so we could replace it after that.

Moot point. No great attempt to hold it since it had no improvements. Already back in our hands with Incan troops bleeding to death in the area.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/GR15_1350_AD.SAV

Preturn: Well I don’t like the looks of things where there are a pair of Russian knights and a few of our towns with little or no defense. About 6 workers doomed in the IBT. Nothing in the vicinity with which to come to their aid. Well once the Mayans are toast, I’ll free up an army or two to support that area once that is accomplished. Bring up three armies to reinforce the attack on Bonompak next turn. Taking no chances here.

IBT- Incans kill a knight at the cost of an MI. Russians trade us a knight (2-2). Three trebs and two cats unescorted pass by our location.

Turn 1 (1310AD) Mayans lose 3 vet muskets at Bonompak to knight armies. GS army kills covering LB. We capture Bonompak and get 1228 gold. The Mayans are histoire. Send 7th Gallic Sword Army on a route recon of the area to the south of Bonompak. Pick up the wayward artillery with a knight. Boy, we get the only break that can save Gersen from Russian troops as a second and last elite attack on an Incan pike north of Larque draws an MGL. The newest knight army kills one Russian knight and an elite MI at Gersen. Kill a pike and pair of Jap spears and Matsumaya captured. GS army kills another Jap pike and archer team. Then rinse and repeat. Abandon Matsumaya and found Ashtabula. Kill 4 Incan MI and a pike that are redlined. Kill another MI by Fort Furthest with knight army that heads into the city. (22-2)

IBT- Quiet

Turn 2 (1315AD) 5th Knight Army kills a pair of reg pikes at Huanuco Pampa. Get a pair of Jap archers. GS army and knight kill Russian knight and spear. GS Army bags pike and 2 incan MI. Russian knight and Incan MI die next. Lose a knight killing another Incan MI and pike. Fort Furthest garrison gets a spear and three Incan MI. Get three American archers and a spear in the east. (43-3)

IBT- Incan knight walks into undefended Teal. America loses an archer against a vet knight. Chemistry in, mettalurgy in 8. (44-3)

Turn 4 (1320AD) 10th Knight recaptures Teal. Kill a pair of Russian MI, pike and a spear, MI of Incas vicinity of Fort Furthest. Fort Furthest is evacuated and will fall in the IBT. Incas have 9MI, 6 pikes, a spear, and 4 archers observed in the vicinity. Get another MGL with an elite knight killing a Jap spear. (50-3)

IBT- Fort Furthest falls to Inca for 29 gold. Incan MI attacks defending MI and dies at Gersen. Two Jap archers die attacking knights at Matsumaya. Jap MI comes out of fog and kills an elite knight. America plodding south with archers and spears in the hills. Also saw a longbow. Once they reach open ground, they are dog meat. Start a lot of bank builds. (53-4)

Turn 5 (1325AD) 12th Knight Army kills a pike and two spears and take Kagoshima. Keep the city so we can use the MGL to form another knight army there. Sell a courthouse, create the army that moves adjacent to Izumo and abandon the city. Kill 2 Jap archers and MI in the central regions. Most reinforcements I am sending to the western region. Knight army kills Russian pike, knight, MI. 3rd GS Army kills a pair of pikes near Fort Furthest. Two GS Armies begin a road pillaging exercise in the west to create a fire break. Incans are moving on next science farm to the south, Teal, but our knight army is healing there. (64-4)

IBT- America loses 3 archers in assorted battles. They are also streaming more forces in now from the central regions. Japanese galley comes home to die at Izumo. (67-4)

Turn 6 (1330AD) Knight kills American spear by Northern River. At Izumo, two pikes and an archer die. Town captured. Sell a courthouse and move the armies on. Kyoto spotted. Abandon Izumo. 3rd GS Army kills Incan spear and 2hp pike. Fort Furthest recaptured. Palo Alto founded. Going there next week, btw so I won’t be playing then. At Teal Fields whittle down the Incas by killing 3 archers and MI. Pick off a pair of American archers and a warrior in the east. (80-4)

Start Military Academy pre-build in Alesia.

IBT- Incas lose an archer and MI attacking Fort Furthest. Fog Jumpers kill a knight and MI of ours. American stacks moving south are now headed west. Moronic. We should have cavalry around the time they get close to a city of ours. (82-6)

Turn 7 (1335AD) Kill 2 Russian knights out west. 3 Japanese pikes and a spear are killed and Kyoto is razed. Two elite attacks on an American archer spear team pull in another MGL. Get 4 Incan MI by Teal Fields. Elite MI can’t beat a spear. Knights kills another 3 MI. GS gets an archer and knight kills the redlined spear that we failed to get the first time. 14th Knight picks up a pair of Russian pikes. Fort the eastern armies to allow them to heal. A pair of knights collect another Jap spear-archer team. (103-7)

IBT- French finish Bach’s. No combat.

Turn 8 (1340AD) Another knight army forms in the east. Kill 4 American spears and 3 archers in the center. Another 5 Incan pikes, 2 MIs and spear by Teal Fields and Fort Furthest. 4hp elite kills Incan spear and another MGL. Back to Teal Fields for another knight army although it’s an assortment of beat up ones so it won’t be ready for action for a bit. In the east, 5 Jap archers and a pike go away. (125-7)

IBT- Jap pike and spear amphib landing at Glanum. The Incans are frustrated as two archers die against our elite* GS. A final MI attack causes the GS to retreat. (127-7)

Turn 9 (1345AD) Redlined elite* GS returns to Teal Fields and is renamed Hero of the Celtic Kingdom. Knight army storms out of Teal Fields to kill Incan pike, MI, and spear. Knight at Larque kills Russian MI. 5th Knight Army kills 2 Incan muskets. Huanuco Pampa razed. Switch Glanum from knight to MI and bring up three knights to iron hills to deal with the landings next turn. 4th GS Army has completed it’s roadwork, or destruction thereof. Now on a recon mission along the west coast. Kill 2 American archers in the center. Note their stacks have 10 archers and 7 spears. (135-7)

IBT- Japs pillage their Glanum tile. No other combat.

Turn 10 (1350AD) Kill the pillaging Jap units. 5 American archers die at Rivers Bend. Get 3 Jap archers in the east. Bring up 2 knight armies to deal with American stacks in the center. (145-7) Mettalurgy in 1. And done.

Post turn- Military Academy prebuild in Alesia should be ready in 10, so if we can get Mil Tradition in 9, that should be good to go. The Incan SoD is finished. America is coming with it’s spears, archers and LBs. There are two armies scouting in the west where Russia presumably is. The front line is fully stable with 6th and 8th GS Armies and 11th and 14th Knight Armies holding the west front. In the center, Larque, Fort Furthest and Malagate have 4 armies in the area for protection, but there is no real threat. Just a number of weak American units in the open. In the east, Japan has to contend with 5 armies wrecking their cities and a sixth not far away.

I’m not convinced that we really have an immediate need to build any cities farther ahead of what exists. There is plenty of room in the interior for science farms. Our top eight commerce cities have banks building now, and all will be finished soon.

We may be close to the top of the continent in the east. No way to tell for sure, but the terrain does get much rougher going north. Civ Assist says the Japanese are down to 8 cities.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/GR15_Army_Group_West.JPG

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/GR15_Army_Group_Center.JPG

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/GR15_Army_Group_East.JPG

Fine work. :goodjob: The situation seems to be completely under control now, and we're within three armies of our limit.

Science camps with a reasonable amount of irrigation should build aqueducts before temples, not after. When they're stuck at size six, supporting three or four scientists from three or two worked tiles (or when they should be doing this--we need some science-farm MM ;)), the cultural expansion doesn't let them work anything new. This applies to places such as Thrweat, Argent Rose, Deva, New Entremont, and Franklin Crossing.

We should try to keep our settler count above ten, not because we're going to use them that quickly, but because on a map of this size we need to have a lot of them in transit at all times.

BTW, the Americans have lost units to the Aztecs, so Monty must be on our continent.

got it...looking good

so, we got the Aztecs on our continent as well...good for us as this means more cities to capture. Once we have Cav armies, we should make real progress fast. As I stated, I think filling those armies with only 3 units should do. We can then send them overseas with galleons.

Sweet. Did I count 5 mgl's? Banks won't do anything for us while we run 100% on sci and lux. That could be for a while.

I would think we are a very long ways from sending any armies any place. This contient is probably at least as much unexplored as explored right now. If that is so we have 3 to 6 more civs yet to met.

We don't have any idea where any other landmasses are, if there are any. Won't be able to explore much until we have some frigate to send out. If they are not in threes they will probably be sunk.

In fact, we can probably only run max science about another dozen turns. Amazing how fast one can go through 9k in gold. We went to the trouble to build Smith's so I figured we should get something out of it. We aren't building commercial docks and stock exchanges for quite some time, and almost certainly no airports.

Agree that it's a tad early to start planning on other continents while we still lack MT. With this size map, I'd want the extra movement point a cav army would provide.

This is continents, so there certainly has to be another land mass somewhere.

Yes, I was going to find fault with the bank builds too :lol:, but then I realized that in ten turns or so we'll be running 40% or 50% cash.

Oh, I don't mind the constructive comments. I'm just grateful that ThERat always follows me, because I don't MM worth a darn either. ;)

Looks like some excellent progress.

Our cash looks like it will last 20 more turns so the banks are a little early, but not too bad. If any town doesn't have a university already however, I would switch to that. I am guessing most or all do though.

Roster:
Greebley - On Deck
markh
Northern Pike
vmxa
M60A3TTS - Just Played
ThERat - Up

Pre-Turn
MM, I think we do not need so many temples in the science farms, rather we need aqueducts and settlers
we do have some need for improvements in the core, minor but needed
swap worker builds, with the amount of slaves we should be fine with that

reduce science another 10%

IT sequence of movement
Inca, Russia, Japan, America
Japan defeats exposed knight after retreaing it, capture a unescorted treb
we get metal, MT next of course due in 6 at 80%
we get our 4th lux and happiness breaks out [0-1]

1.1355AD
western armies spot Russian borders
defeat 4 units in Osaka and raze it for 2 cats and 5 slaves
defeat an archer there as well
found Saltpeter city to give us that resource
defeat spear and get MGL
defeat 3 more units and lose 1 [9-2]

reduce lux to 0%, mil Trad in 6 at -186gpt

IT we defeat an archer...seems like River's bend and Saltpeter city are the magnets for the AI
Iro's finish Magellan...guess we will get some more contacts via the Ocean one fine day [10-2]

2.1360AD
defeat 2 units and raze Incan Nagoya
defeat 3 units in Tokyo, city still stands
found Hill's Advocate towards Japan

elsewhere defeat 8 units [23-2]

IT Incans send knights and Americans more cannonfodder
more banks finish

3.1365BC
raze Russian Tver after defeating 2 units
found Gap Filler
3 units gone and Tokyo captured to be able to advance faster
defeat 2 units at Yokohama and 2 at Nara
abandon Tokyo, found Grumpus

defeat 3 units, lose 1 but get another army
save it for cavalry
defeat another 5 units [40-3]

IT lose a pike after it takes out a knight [41-4]
around Tokyo a blue knight runs around, definitely a new Civ :eek:

4.1370AD
it's the Germans, 17 cities, down chemistry but up astro, good will make that even cheaper
declare war on them
time to take out Japan so we have 4 enemies again
defeat 3 units and raze Yokohama, defeat 2 units and raze Nara
found Erlangen and Baiersdorf

start to attack Orenburg defeating 2 units

defeat 13:1units elsewhere [61-5]

IT the Incans get really nasty and attack at many places where we have some knights and other fortified units
we go 8:4 and in addition they snatch some slaves out of the fog
lose 2 more of those knights, it's time we stop the scattering of units [69-13]

India finishes Shakespeare

5.1375AD
Nagasaki is razed after 3 units defeated
German borders are just next to that
assemble a big stack of slaves and artillery to be brought back home slowly
found Forchheim
defeat 11 units [83-13]

am able to further reduce science to 60% after running a few for 70%

When I read that you saw a blue knight, that reminded me, that I thought I saw one on an IBT. When the turn came up I could not find it and figured it was just a Russian. Now I wonder if it was a stray German.

Iroq must be strong by now. They have snagged many wonders. On the workers, I agree I stopped a few, but left some going. I figured the idea was to use them to rail and to add to towns. Settlers are more useful now, than workers.

I also agree we are just asking to have units killed by leaving them out in the open. Even forted on a mountain is not enough as the AI will just hit them over and over, until they are killed.

IT time we get cavalry, lose another pike to knight [83-14]
first german knight appear, we better have cavs soon

6.1380AD
3 units defeated and Orenburg is razed
defeat 1 unit in Khabarovk
found Kalchreuth
defeat 1 unit in Edo, one in Sapporo, will take them out next turn

defeat 6 units elsewhere [94-14]

IT Hill's advocate sees a good number of Incan units approach
well, the German floodgate has opened, we will have to face all those units...nice
Japan lands an archer next to en empty town, doubtful that that archer will be alive long
we get the all important Military Tradition, astro next

7.1385AD
defeat 3 units in Sapporo and still at least 2 units left
capture Edo after defeating 3 units, move more units towards Sapporo and abandon Edo
found another city

defeat 5 units, time to upgrade a bunch of knights [115-14]
rush a wall in our hill city to weather the strom that is coming

MM and we can get astro in 5 at 60% at hardly any deficit

IT expectedly Incans do not attack but pass city
watch Germans passing by, I stationed an army next to them to give them some chance to get wounded and thin the enemy stacks

8.1390AD
defeat 4 more units in Sapporo and
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/gr151390.jpg

start to attack Vilcabamba, but muskets on hills are tough even for knight armies
have to stop attack after defeating 1 unit
attack Huaras in the hills, same outcome
more successful at Khabarosk, defeat 2 pikes and raze city

found Golden Hill and Cow Valley

start to take out American intruders, end up with 16 slain units
Incans and Russians next, take out 8 units [147-14]

IT Incan and Russian movement, Russians move in and out of fog, a bit dangerous here
then comes the German stack again...

9.1395AD
clear the Russian incursions, 4 knights defeated
start to attack Rostov, take out 1 pike
take out another unit in Huaras
go after Shimonoseki, defeat 1 unit

defeat 5 Incan knights near Hill [159-14]

IT 2 Russians come out of the fog at Forth Furthers but lose [161-14]
then they land 2 units in nowhere land where we do have some workers building roads
Germans march on.
Mil Academy is done


10.1400AD
take out 3 units and raze Shimonoseki
attack Vilcabamaba, take out 1 unit, knight army too wounded, need to stop attack there
take out 2 units and raze Rostov (Russia has no horses now)
found Handover city and New Lugdunum

defeat 10 units in the open and finally get another army [177-14]

we will lose some workers to those 2 Russian units, I sent an army there to deal with the issue


The German stacks will come to our borders soon, but with cavalry we should be able to handle them, though the knights will be a pain
Incans, Russian and Americans have units tickling at our land. The worst is the fog, I think we should try and build a proper frontline with our cities. Science farms won't need so much land and we will never win by domination anyway.
Keep it tight until we have a better fogbusting

weird Russian landing, in the north we have a GS army to deal with 2 units, from the east we have a knight army in case
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/gr151400.jpg


Siberia, vast land which is now empty
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/gr151400b.jpg

the front with action, Incan to the north and America and Germany in the northeast, note the German knight marching towards our front
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/gr151400c.jpg



save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/53368/GR15_1400_AD.SAV)

I haven't looked at the save yet, but great stuff. :goodjob:

Greebley, some additional information for you.

Incas send knights via the northern, roaded route which leads to Hill's advocate and some via the mountain range. We can tackle them.

Russia sends some knights and the problem is that they sometimes come out of the fog unexpectedly. If we continue to settle the gaps, this should get better.
Anyway, we do have 3 armies in Russia and should be able to make some progress. They are now without horses and this means no more knights in the long run.

Germans are sending several smaller size stacks towards Hill's advocate. We do have 1 cav, 1 knight army there and we just got an additional cav army (filled with 2 units) there. I would send those Cav armies out to help raze Inca cities. Knight armies seem to struggle against muskets in size 7+ cities.

America is sending cannon fodder like maces and the like. Easy to tackle.

Generally I made sure we always have a supply of 6-8 settlers, as razing wil gain speed. I think we should increase that number, we can always cash rush some almost finished settlers. Our income is now positive at 60% science and we still got some 1500gold. I would not spend all the cash. Rather slow research by a turn for the time being. Once we go for steam, we can increase that. We do have 110+ scientists (up from 80 when I inherited the turn)